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View Full Version : Re: It is time to talk about affirmative action


John HUDSON
July 8th 03, 06:45 PM
On 8 Jul 2003 13:04:30 -0400, (Seth Breidbart) wrote:

>In article >,
>John HUDSON > wrote:
>
>>Read what I said again, and understand that Will Brink is always very
>>quick to jump down the throats of some people for venturing an
>>opinion.
>
>Not that I've noticed.
>
>When he feels like it, he attacks people for posting incorrect facts.
>At least, that's my observation.

It certainly isn't my observation or experience! It is clear that Will
only likes Will's facts.

>
>I haven't seen him attack anybody for posting _opinions_ (e.g. whether
>X is more attractive than Y is an opinion; whether workout schedule A
>produces better results than B may be a belief, but it isn't an
>opinion.)

Perhaps "opinion" is a little weak, but I think you are introducing
semantics here. Maybe a broader description might be the discipline of
ethics Seth.

For example: the 'ethics' of the bearing of arms can be a topic that
is objective or subjective. In Will's closed mind, only Will's way can
be right and any attempt to draw different conclusions, or offer
alternative viewpoints, will result in name-calling like in "moron"
etc.

I hope that is more clear.

>
>Seth

John HUDSON
July 8th 03, 06:45 PM
On 8 Jul 2003 13:04:30 -0400, (Seth Breidbart) wrote:

>In article >,
>John HUDSON > wrote:
>
>>Read what I said again, and understand that Will Brink is always very
>>quick to jump down the throats of some people for venturing an
>>opinion.
>
>Not that I've noticed.
>
>When he feels like it, he attacks people for posting incorrect facts.
>At least, that's my observation.

It certainly isn't my observation or experience! It is clear that Will
only likes Will's facts.

>
>I haven't seen him attack anybody for posting _opinions_ (e.g. whether
>X is more attractive than Y is an opinion; whether workout schedule A
>produces better results than B may be a belief, but it isn't an
>opinion.)

Perhaps "opinion" is a little weak, but I think you are introducing
semantics here. Maybe a broader description might be the discipline of
ethics Seth.

For example: the 'ethics' of the bearing of arms can be a topic that
is objective or subjective. In Will's closed mind, only Will's way can
be right and any attempt to draw different conclusions, or offer
alternative viewpoints, will result in name-calling like in "moron"
etc.

I hope that is more clear.

>
>Seth

euonymous
July 8th 03, 06:45 PM
William Brink wrote in message ...

>>It appears that your personal set of values
>> simply won't allow you to look at the subject objectively.
>
>Again, my obectivity is wothout question and far better than yours, as
>your post have made clear here.
>

It's my assertion that there exists a substantial amount of credible
scientific evidence indicating the genetic differences between races can
account, at least in part, for differences in intelligence. This, of course,
doesn't mean all Blacks are stupid or all Asians are smart.

I realize, however, that historically when a race has been deemed
genetically "inferior", they have been subject to all sorts of atrocities
and for this reason, the mere discussion of race/intelligence and genetics
is considered taboo (hence my shameful anonymity).

By failing to even to consider the genetic aspect of the disparity, we will
continue to waste time, money an be no closer to solving the "problem" than
we were 40 years ago.

Eventually, I believe, this (genetic diff in IQ) will become an accepted
fact (the truth always wins out). The most perplexing social issue will then
be how we can handle it fairly and compassionately. And that's all I have to
say about that.

euonymous
July 8th 03, 06:45 PM
William Brink wrote in message ...

>>It appears that your personal set of values
>> simply won't allow you to look at the subject objectively.
>
>Again, my obectivity is wothout question and far better than yours, as
>your post have made clear here.
>

It's my assertion that there exists a substantial amount of credible
scientific evidence indicating the genetic differences between races can
account, at least in part, for differences in intelligence. This, of course,
doesn't mean all Blacks are stupid or all Asians are smart.

I realize, however, that historically when a race has been deemed
genetically "inferior", they have been subject to all sorts of atrocities
and for this reason, the mere discussion of race/intelligence and genetics
is considered taboo (hence my shameful anonymity).

By failing to even to consider the genetic aspect of the disparity, we will
continue to waste time, money an be no closer to solving the "problem" than
we were 40 years ago.

Eventually, I believe, this (genetic diff in IQ) will become an accepted
fact (the truth always wins out). The most perplexing social issue will then
be how we can handle it fairly and compassionately. And that's all I have to
say about that.

Rumpleforeskin
July 9th 03, 02:49 AM
>From: "euonymous"
>Date: 7/8/03 10:45 AM Pacific Daylight Time

>
>Eventually, I believe, this (genetic diff in IQ) will become an accepted
>fact (the truth always wins out).

Within the scientific community which studies this issue it already is.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
What Would Jesus Do
For A Klondike Bar?

Rumpleforeskin
July 9th 03, 02:49 AM
>From: "euonymous"
>Date: 7/8/03 10:45 AM Pacific Daylight Time

>
>Eventually, I believe, this (genetic diff in IQ) will become an accepted
>fact (the truth always wins out).

Within the scientific community which studies this issue it already is.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
What Would Jesus Do
For A Klondike Bar?

William Brink
July 9th 03, 04:13 PM
In article >,
(Seth Breidbart) wrote:

> In article >,
> John HUDSON > wrote:
>
> >Read what I said again, and understand that Will Brink is always very
> >quick to jump down the throats of some people for venturing an
> >opinion.
>
> Not that I've noticed.
>
> When he feels like it, he attacks people for posting incorrect facts.
> At least, that's my observation.
>
> I haven't seen him attack anybody for posting _opinions_ (e.g. whether
> X is more attractive than Y is an opinion; whether workout schedule A
> produces better results than B may be a belief, but it isn't an
> opinion.)

Exactly. What I take huge issue with, and what I have been fighting in
the nutritional world for over a decade, is people state their opininion
as a fact. THAT gets my attention.

>
> Seth

--
Will Brink

http://www.brinkzone.com/
http://musclebuildingnutrition.com/
http://www.aboutsupplements.com/

William Brink
July 9th 03, 04:13 PM
In article >,
(Seth Breidbart) wrote:

> In article >,
> John HUDSON > wrote:
>
> >Read what I said again, and understand that Will Brink is always very
> >quick to jump down the throats of some people for venturing an
> >opinion.
>
> Not that I've noticed.
>
> When he feels like it, he attacks people for posting incorrect facts.
> At least, that's my observation.
>
> I haven't seen him attack anybody for posting _opinions_ (e.g. whether
> X is more attractive than Y is an opinion; whether workout schedule A
> produces better results than B may be a belief, but it isn't an
> opinion.)

Exactly. What I take huge issue with, and what I have been fighting in
the nutritional world for over a decade, is people state their opininion
as a fact. THAT gets my attention.

>
> Seth

--
Will Brink

http://www.brinkzone.com/
http://musclebuildingnutrition.com/
http://www.aboutsupplements.com/

William Brink
July 9th 03, 04:16 PM
In article >,
John HUDSON > wrote:

> On 8 Jul 2003 13:04:30 -0400, (Seth Breidbart) wrote:
>
> >In article >,
> >John HUDSON > wrote:
> >
> >>Read what I said again, and understand that Will Brink is always very
> >>quick to jump down the throats of some people for venturing an
> >>opinion.
> >
> >Not that I've noticed.
> >
> >When he feels like it, he attacks people for posting incorrect facts.
> >At least, that's my observation.
>
> It certainly isn't my observation or experience! It is clear that Will
> only likes Will's facts.

Incorrect as always.

>
> >
> >I haven't seen him attack anybody for posting _opinions_ (e.g. whether
> >X is more attractive than Y is an opinion; whether workout schedule A
> >produces better results than B may be a belief, but it isn't an
> >opinion.)
>
> Perhaps "opinion" is a little weak, but I think you are introducing
> semantics here. Maybe a broader description might be the discipline of
> ethics Seth.
>
> For example: the 'ethics' of the bearing of arms can be a topic that
> is objective or subjective.

It can be, but I base mine on objective data most of the time and make
it very clear when i am talking about subjective aspects of that topic.


> In Will's closed mind, only Will's way can
> be right and any attempt to draw different conclusions, or offer
> alternative viewpoints, will result in name-calling like in "moron"
> etc.

If those points are actualy based on something more than feelings,
opinions, etc. I have no problems with it.

>
> I hope that is more clear.

Nope.

>
> >
> >Seth
>

--
Will Brink

http://www.brinkzone.com/
http://musclebuildingnutrition.com/
http://www.aboutsupplements.com/

William Brink
July 9th 03, 04:16 PM
In article >,
John HUDSON > wrote:

> On 8 Jul 2003 13:04:30 -0400, (Seth Breidbart) wrote:
>
> >In article >,
> >John HUDSON > wrote:
> >
> >>Read what I said again, and understand that Will Brink is always very
> >>quick to jump down the throats of some people for venturing an
> >>opinion.
> >
> >Not that I've noticed.
> >
> >When he feels like it, he attacks people for posting incorrect facts.
> >At least, that's my observation.
>
> It certainly isn't my observation or experience! It is clear that Will
> only likes Will's facts.

Incorrect as always.

>
> >
> >I haven't seen him attack anybody for posting _opinions_ (e.g. whether
> >X is more attractive than Y is an opinion; whether workout schedule A
> >produces better results than B may be a belief, but it isn't an
> >opinion.)
>
> Perhaps "opinion" is a little weak, but I think you are introducing
> semantics here. Maybe a broader description might be the discipline of
> ethics Seth.
>
> For example: the 'ethics' of the bearing of arms can be a topic that
> is objective or subjective.

It can be, but I base mine on objective data most of the time and make
it very clear when i am talking about subjective aspects of that topic.


> In Will's closed mind, only Will's way can
> be right and any attempt to draw different conclusions, or offer
> alternative viewpoints, will result in name-calling like in "moron"
> etc.

If those points are actualy based on something more than feelings,
opinions, etc. I have no problems with it.

>
> I hope that is more clear.

Nope.

>
> >
> >Seth
>

--
Will Brink

http://www.brinkzone.com/
http://musclebuildingnutrition.com/
http://www.aboutsupplements.com/

William Brink
July 9th 03, 04:18 PM
In article >,
"euonymous" > wrote:

> William Brink wrote in message ...
>
> >>It appears that your personal set of values
> >> simply won't allow you to look at the subject objectively.
> >
> >Again, my obectivity is wothout question and far better than yours, as
> >your post have made clear here.
> >
>
> It's my assertion that there exists a substantial amount of credible
> scientific evidence indicating the genetic differences between races can
> account, at least in part, for differences in intelligence.

We have already gone over that. Repeating yourself wont alter that.

> This, of course,
> doesn't mean all Blacks are stupid or all Asians are smart.

Of course.

>
> I realize, however, that historically when a race has been deemed
> genetically "inferior", they have been subject to all sorts of atrocities
> and for this reason, the mere discussion of race/intelligence and genetics
> is considered taboo (hence my shameful anonymity).

Agreed, its a tough topic to approach.

>
> By failing to even to consider the genetic aspect of the disparity,

Which I never did BTW.

>we will
> continue to waste time, money an be no closer to solving the "problem" than
> we were 40 years ago.

I dont agree.

>
> Eventually, I believe, this (genetic diff in IQ) will become an accepted
> fact (the truth always wins out). The most perplexing social issue will then
> be how we can handle it fairly and compassionately. And that's all I have to
> say about that.

Finally.

--
Will Brink

http://www.brinkzone.com/
http://musclebuildingnutrition.com/
http://www.aboutsupplements.com/

William Brink
July 9th 03, 04:18 PM
In article >,
"euonymous" > wrote:

> William Brink wrote in message ...
>
> >>It appears that your personal set of values
> >> simply won't allow you to look at the subject objectively.
> >
> >Again, my obectivity is wothout question and far better than yours, as
> >your post have made clear here.
> >
>
> It's my assertion that there exists a substantial amount of credible
> scientific evidence indicating the genetic differences between races can
> account, at least in part, for differences in intelligence.

We have already gone over that. Repeating yourself wont alter that.

> This, of course,
> doesn't mean all Blacks are stupid or all Asians are smart.

Of course.

>
> I realize, however, that historically when a race has been deemed
> genetically "inferior", they have been subject to all sorts of atrocities
> and for this reason, the mere discussion of race/intelligence and genetics
> is considered taboo (hence my shameful anonymity).

Agreed, its a tough topic to approach.

>
> By failing to even to consider the genetic aspect of the disparity,

Which I never did BTW.

>we will
> continue to waste time, money an be no closer to solving the "problem" than
> we were 40 years ago.

I dont agree.

>
> Eventually, I believe, this (genetic diff in IQ) will become an accepted
> fact (the truth always wins out). The most perplexing social issue will then
> be how we can handle it fairly and compassionately. And that's all I have to
> say about that.

Finally.

--
Will Brink

http://www.brinkzone.com/
http://musclebuildingnutrition.com/
http://www.aboutsupplements.com/

William Brink
July 9th 03, 04:19 PM
In article
>,
"JC Der Koenig" > wrote:

> "William Brink" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article
> > >,
> > "JC Der Koenig" > wrote:
> >
> > > "Only Morons Need Affirmative Action" > wrote in
> > > message ...
> > > > >From: Donovan Rebbechi
> > > >
> > > > > I just don't believe throwing money at the education problem is
> > > > >> going to fix it.
> > > > >
> > > > >I agree -- I think it's an enormous over-simplification to suggest
> that
> > > it's
> > > > >just a matter of spending more money.
> > > > >
> > > > >> It surely hasn't in the past. <<
> > > >
> > > > Indeed. No amount of $$ will make women as strong as men, blacks as
> smart
> > > as
> > > > Jews, Asians as fast as West African blacks, Kenyans as strong as
> whites,
> > > etc.
> > > >
> > > > We might want to accept that genes actually matter and work from
> there...
> > >
> > > Looks like you read "The Bell Curve".
> >
> > You think?
> >
> I try not to, but sometimes it just happens.

You sound like my ex wife :-)

--
Will Brink

http://www.brinkzone.com/
http://musclebuildingnutrition.com/
http://www.aboutsupplements.com/

William Brink
July 9th 03, 04:19 PM
In article
>,
"JC Der Koenig" > wrote:

> "William Brink" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article
> > >,
> > "JC Der Koenig" > wrote:
> >
> > > "Only Morons Need Affirmative Action" > wrote in
> > > message ...
> > > > >From: Donovan Rebbechi
> > > >
> > > > > I just don't believe throwing money at the education problem is
> > > > >> going to fix it.
> > > > >
> > > > >I agree -- I think it's an enormous over-simplification to suggest
> that
> > > it's
> > > > >just a matter of spending more money.
> > > > >
> > > > >> It surely hasn't in the past. <<
> > > >
> > > > Indeed. No amount of $$ will make women as strong as men, blacks as
> smart
> > > as
> > > > Jews, Asians as fast as West African blacks, Kenyans as strong as
> whites,
> > > etc.
> > > >
> > > > We might want to accept that genes actually matter and work from
> there...
> > >
> > > Looks like you read "The Bell Curve".
> >
> > You think?
> >
> I try not to, but sometimes it just happens.

You sound like my ex wife :-)

--
Will Brink

http://www.brinkzone.com/
http://musclebuildingnutrition.com/
http://www.aboutsupplements.com/

Seth Breidbart
July 9th 03, 08:05 PM
In article >,
MJL > wrote:

>High school grades are a great predictor of success.

Especially in high school.

> Personally I don't think
>the issue here is about who will succeed. If that were the criteria then you
>can toss out race and just go with HS grades and SAT scores which are a tried
>and proven method to pick students who will excel.

They work pretty well; adding some other factors can help them work
better.

> The stated goal of these institutions that were sued was to
>increase the diversity of their student body on the grounds, i
>assume, that a diverse body benefits everyone.

That's actually a reasonable assumption; however, there are problems
with pushing it too hard (or too far): while being exposed to people
of other types leads you to learn about them, if those people are, on
average, less-qualified, then the other students will tend to conclude
that the entire group is less-qualified.

> I think there is some recognition that the possibility that these
>students selected based on race will fail at a rate greater than
>those just picked based on the "traditional measures" but I think
>they believe that increasing diversity is valuable enough to risk
>that prospect.

Unfortunately, it also causes the valid statistical inference to be
drawn, to the disadvantage of the "diversity" students.

Seth
--
Most people who have to quote their IQ to feel good are either 15 years old
or live in their mom's basement at 40. -- Will Brink

Seth Breidbart
July 9th 03, 08:05 PM
In article >,
MJL > wrote:

>High school grades are a great predictor of success.

Especially in high school.

> Personally I don't think
>the issue here is about who will succeed. If that were the criteria then you
>can toss out race and just go with HS grades and SAT scores which are a tried
>and proven method to pick students who will excel.

They work pretty well; adding some other factors can help them work
better.

> The stated goal of these institutions that were sued was to
>increase the diversity of their student body on the grounds, i
>assume, that a diverse body benefits everyone.

That's actually a reasonable assumption; however, there are problems
with pushing it too hard (or too far): while being exposed to people
of other types leads you to learn about them, if those people are, on
average, less-qualified, then the other students will tend to conclude
that the entire group is less-qualified.

> I think there is some recognition that the possibility that these
>students selected based on race will fail at a rate greater than
>those just picked based on the "traditional measures" but I think
>they believe that increasing diversity is valuable enough to risk
>that prospect.

Unfortunately, it also causes the valid statistical inference to be
drawn, to the disadvantage of the "diversity" students.

Seth
--
Most people who have to quote their IQ to feel good are either 15 years old
or live in their mom's basement at 40. -- Will Brink

Seth Breidbart
July 9th 03, 08:27 PM
In article >,
William Brink > wrote:
>In article >,
> (Seth Breidbart) wrote:

>> I haven't seen him attack anybody for posting _opinions_ (e.g. whether
>> X is more attractive than Y is an opinion; whether workout schedule A
>> produces better results than B may be a belief, but it isn't an
>> opinion.)
>
>Exactly. What I take huge issue with, and what I have been fighting in
>the nutritional world for over a decade, is people state their opininion
>as a fact. THAT gets my attention.

ITYM "belief", not "opinion".

"Eating 100 grams of protein per day causes damage to healthy kidneys"
is an incorrect belief, not an opinion. "Joe's Brand whey protein
tastes good" is an opinion.

Seth
--
Who cares? Shut up and lift. -- Watson (the pencil neck) Davis

Seth Breidbart
July 9th 03, 08:27 PM
In article >,
William Brink > wrote:
>In article >,
> (Seth Breidbart) wrote:

>> I haven't seen him attack anybody for posting _opinions_ (e.g. whether
>> X is more attractive than Y is an opinion; whether workout schedule A
>> produces better results than B may be a belief, but it isn't an
>> opinion.)
>
>Exactly. What I take huge issue with, and what I have been fighting in
>the nutritional world for over a decade, is people state their opininion
>as a fact. THAT gets my attention.

ITYM "belief", not "opinion".

"Eating 100 grams of protein per day causes damage to healthy kidneys"
is an incorrect belief, not an opinion. "Joe's Brand whey protein
tastes good" is an opinion.

Seth
--
Who cares? Shut up and lift. -- Watson (the pencil neck) Davis

Keith Hobman
July 9th 03, 08:29 PM
In article >, (Seth
Breidbart) wrote:

Sig of Seth

"Seth
--
Who cares? Shut up and lift. -- Watson (the pencil neck) Davis"

reminded me - where is that little pencilneck anyhow?

Dayum - I kinda miss his insults and wicked repartee!

--
Keith Hobman

--- email address above is a non-monitored spam sink.

Keith Hobman
July 9th 03, 08:29 PM
In article >, (Seth
Breidbart) wrote:

Sig of Seth

"Seth
--
Who cares? Shut up and lift. -- Watson (the pencil neck) Davis"

reminded me - where is that little pencilneck anyhow?

Dayum - I kinda miss his insults and wicked repartee!

--
Keith Hobman

--- email address above is a non-monitored spam sink.

John HUDSON
July 9th 03, 11:49 PM
On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 15:16:13 GMT, William Brink
> wrote:

>In article >,
> John HUDSON > wrote:
>
>> On 8 Jul 2003 13:04:30 -0400, (Seth Breidbart) wrote:
>>
>> >In article >,
>> >John HUDSON > wrote:
>> >
>> >>Read what I said again, and understand that Will Brink is always very
>> >>quick to jump down the throats of some people for venturing an
>> >>opinion.
>> >
>> >Not that I've noticed.
>> >
>> >When he feels like it, he attacks people for posting incorrect facts.
>> >At least, that's my observation.
>>
>> It certainly isn't my observation or experience! It is clear that Will
>> only likes Will's facts.
>
>Incorrect as always.

That's surely an opinion Will! ;o)

>
>>
>> >
>> >I haven't seen him attack anybody for posting _opinions_ (e.g. whether
>> >X is more attractive than Y is an opinion; whether workout schedule A
>> >produces better results than B may be a belief, but it isn't an
>> >opinion.)
>>
>> Perhaps "opinion" is a little weak, but I think you are introducing
>> semantics here. Maybe a broader description might be the discipline of
>> ethics Seth.
>>
>> For example: the 'ethics' of the bearing of arms can be a topic that
>> is objective or subjective.
>
>It can be, but I base mine on objective data most of the time and make
>it very clear when i am talking about subjective aspects of that topic.

I don't happen to believe that you do.

>
>
>> In Will's closed mind, only Will's way can
>> be right and any attempt to draw different conclusions, or offer
>> alternative viewpoints, will result in name-calling like in "moron"
>> etc.
>
>If those points are actualy based on something more than feelings,
>opinions, etc. I have no problems with it.

Many topics, including the bearing of arms, can for some people only
ever be an "opinion" in the absence of any personal experience.

>
>>
>> I hope that is more clear.
>
>Nope.
>
>>
>> >
>> >Seth
>>

John HUDSON
July 9th 03, 11:49 PM
On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 15:16:13 GMT, William Brink
> wrote:

>In article >,
> John HUDSON > wrote:
>
>> On 8 Jul 2003 13:04:30 -0400, (Seth Breidbart) wrote:
>>
>> >In article >,
>> >John HUDSON > wrote:
>> >
>> >>Read what I said again, and understand that Will Brink is always very
>> >>quick to jump down the throats of some people for venturing an
>> >>opinion.
>> >
>> >Not that I've noticed.
>> >
>> >When he feels like it, he attacks people for posting incorrect facts.
>> >At least, that's my observation.
>>
>> It certainly isn't my observation or experience! It is clear that Will
>> only likes Will's facts.
>
>Incorrect as always.

That's surely an opinion Will! ;o)

>
>>
>> >
>> >I haven't seen him attack anybody for posting _opinions_ (e.g. whether
>> >X is more attractive than Y is an opinion; whether workout schedule A
>> >produces better results than B may be a belief, but it isn't an
>> >opinion.)
>>
>> Perhaps "opinion" is a little weak, but I think you are introducing
>> semantics here. Maybe a broader description might be the discipline of
>> ethics Seth.
>>
>> For example: the 'ethics' of the bearing of arms can be a topic that
>> is objective or subjective.
>
>It can be, but I base mine on objective data most of the time and make
>it very clear when i am talking about subjective aspects of that topic.

I don't happen to believe that you do.

>
>
>> In Will's closed mind, only Will's way can
>> be right and any attempt to draw different conclusions, or offer
>> alternative viewpoints, will result in name-calling like in "moron"
>> etc.
>
>If those points are actualy based on something more than feelings,
>opinions, etc. I have no problems with it.

Many topics, including the bearing of arms, can for some people only
ever be an "opinion" in the absence of any personal experience.

>
>>
>> I hope that is more clear.
>
>Nope.
>
>>
>> >
>> >Seth
>>

Nina
July 10th 03, 12:34 AM
On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 13:29:55 -0600, (Keith Hobman)
wrote:

>In article >, (Seth
>Breidbart) wrote:
>
>Sig of Seth
>
>"Seth
>--
>Who cares? Shut up and lift. -- Watson (the pencil neck) Davis"
>
>reminded me - where is that little pencilneck anyhow?
>
>Dayum - I kinda miss his insults and wicked repartee!

I know where he is.

Cheers,
Nina
It isn't in my basement, sorry.
delicious! evil! calorie free!
http://www.theslack.com

Nina
July 10th 03, 12:34 AM
On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 13:29:55 -0600, (Keith Hobman)
wrote:

>In article >, (Seth
>Breidbart) wrote:
>
>Sig of Seth
>
>"Seth
>--
>Who cares? Shut up and lift. -- Watson (the pencil neck) Davis"
>
>reminded me - where is that little pencilneck anyhow?
>
>Dayum - I kinda miss his insults and wicked repartee!

I know where he is.

Cheers,
Nina
It isn't in my basement, sorry.
delicious! evil! calorie free!
http://www.theslack.com

John HUDSON
July 10th 03, 09:20 AM
On 10 Jul 2003 02:34:52 -0400, (Seth Breidbart) wrote:

>In article >,
>John HUDSON > wrote:
>>On 8 Jul 2003 13:04:30 -0400, (Seth Breidbart) wrote:
>
>>>When he feels like it, he attacks people for posting incorrect facts.
>>>At least, that's my observation.
>>It certainly isn't my observation or experience! It is clear that Will
>>only likes Will's facts.
>
>He sometimes likes mine, too.

But then I expect he likes you Seth, which sways his judgement and
indicates that mind accusation of "double standards" has validity! ;o)

>
>>>I haven't seen him attack anybody for posting _opinions_ (e.g. whether
>>>X is more attractive than Y is an opinion; whether workout schedule A
>>>produces better results than B may be a belief, but it isn't an
>>>opinion.)
>>Perhaps "opinion" is a little weak, but I think you are introducing
>>semantics here.
>
>Posting messages with meanings is, in my opinion, a good thing.

But Will says you mustn't offer "opinions" because they cannot be
"objective"!

[Please note my "attributions" - JW will be pleased <ha>]

>
>> Maybe a broader description might be the discipline of
>>ethics Seth.
>>
>>For example: the 'ethics' of the bearing of arms can be a topic that
>>is objective or subjective.
>
>I think that generally it's meaningless. "Bearing arms" is ethically
>neutral. _Using_ them often isn't (whether ethically good, bad, or
>indifferent again depends on the circumstances).

That's a bit deep for a Thursday morning Seth! ;o)

>
>> In Will's closed mind, only Will's way can
>>be right and any attempt to draw different conclusions, or offer
>>alternative viewpoints, will result in name-calling like in "moron"
>>etc.
>
>My observations differ. Using bogus claims, bad statistics, etc. will
>draw that sort of response; using valid information and statistics
>won't.

On such classifications and selective compartmentalisation, are
arguments at MFW won and lost!

In other words Seth, tribalism, intimidation and bull**** rules here -
OK! <VBG>

>
>Seth

John HUDSON
July 10th 03, 09:20 AM
On 10 Jul 2003 02:34:52 -0400, (Seth Breidbart) wrote:

>In article >,
>John HUDSON > wrote:
>>On 8 Jul 2003 13:04:30 -0400, (Seth Breidbart) wrote:
>
>>>When he feels like it, he attacks people for posting incorrect facts.
>>>At least, that's my observation.
>>It certainly isn't my observation or experience! It is clear that Will
>>only likes Will's facts.
>
>He sometimes likes mine, too.

But then I expect he likes you Seth, which sways his judgement and
indicates that mind accusation of "double standards" has validity! ;o)

>
>>>I haven't seen him attack anybody for posting _opinions_ (e.g. whether
>>>X is more attractive than Y is an opinion; whether workout schedule A
>>>produces better results than B may be a belief, but it isn't an
>>>opinion.)
>>Perhaps "opinion" is a little weak, but I think you are introducing
>>semantics here.
>
>Posting messages with meanings is, in my opinion, a good thing.

But Will says you mustn't offer "opinions" because they cannot be
"objective"!

[Please note my "attributions" - JW will be pleased <ha>]

>
>> Maybe a broader description might be the discipline of
>>ethics Seth.
>>
>>For example: the 'ethics' of the bearing of arms can be a topic that
>>is objective or subjective.
>
>I think that generally it's meaningless. "Bearing arms" is ethically
>neutral. _Using_ them often isn't (whether ethically good, bad, or
>indifferent again depends on the circumstances).

That's a bit deep for a Thursday morning Seth! ;o)

>
>> In Will's closed mind, only Will's way can
>>be right and any attempt to draw different conclusions, or offer
>>alternative viewpoints, will result in name-calling like in "moron"
>>etc.
>
>My observations differ. Using bogus claims, bad statistics, etc. will
>draw that sort of response; using valid information and statistics
>won't.

On such classifications and selective compartmentalisation, are
arguments at MFW won and lost!

In other words Seth, tribalism, intimidation and bull**** rules here -
OK! <VBG>

>
>Seth

Will
July 10th 03, 01:32 PM
John HUDSON > wrote in message >...
> On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 15:16:13 GMT, William Brink
> > wrote:
>
> >In article >,
> > John HUDSON > wrote:
> >
> >> On 8 Jul 2003 13:04:30 -0400, (Seth Breidbart) wrote:
> >>
> >> >In article >,
> >> >John HUDSON > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>Read what I said again, and understand that Will Brink is always very
> >> >>quick to jump down the throats of some people for venturing an
> >> >>opinion.
> >> >
> >> >Not that I've noticed.
> >> >
> >> >When he feels like it, he attacks people for posting incorrect facts.
> >> >At least, that's my observation.
> >>
> >> It certainly isn't my observation or experience! It is clear that Will
> >> only likes Will's facts.
> >
> >Incorrect as always.
>
> That's surely an opinion Will! ;o)

Surely a fact :-)

>
> >
> >>
> >> >
> >> >I haven't seen him attack anybody for posting _opinions_ (e.g. whether
> >> >X is more attractive than Y is an opinion; whether workout schedule A
> >> >produces better results than B may be a belief, but it isn't an
> >> >opinion.)
> >>
> >> Perhaps "opinion" is a little weak, but I think you are introducing
> >> semantics here. Maybe a broader description might be the discipline of
> >> ethics Seth.
> >>
> >> For example: the 'ethics' of the bearing of arms can be a topic that
> >> is objective or subjective.
> >
> >It can be, but I base mine on objective data most of the time and make
> >it very clear when i am talking about subjective aspects of that topic.
>
> I don't happen to believe that you do.

Exactly, John, you don't "believe" do. What you believe (feel, think,
wish, etc) does not change the reality that I do. Emotions don't alter
facts, but facts can alter emotions.

>
> >
> >
> >> In Will's closed mind, only Will's way can
> >> be right and any attempt to draw different conclusions, or offer
> >> alternative viewpoints, will result in name-calling like in "moron"
> >> etc.
> >
> >If those points are actualy based on something more than feelings,
> >opinions, etc. I have no problems with it.
>
> Many topics, including the bearing of arms, can for some people only
> ever be an "opinion" in the absence of any personal experience.

That made no sense at all. Experience NEVER alters a topic from
subjective to obective or vise versa. Most people, including yourself
it appears, are unable to seperate the two and or confuse the two.

Second Amend issues = subjective topic
Data on the effects of guns on crime = objective topic

It's not that hard to understand.
>
> >
> >>
> >> I hope that is more clear.
> >
> >Nope.
> >
> >>
> >> >
> >> >Seth
> >>

Will
July 10th 03, 01:32 PM
John HUDSON > wrote in message >...
> On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 15:16:13 GMT, William Brink
> > wrote:
>
> >In article >,
> > John HUDSON > wrote:
> >
> >> On 8 Jul 2003 13:04:30 -0400, (Seth Breidbart) wrote:
> >>
> >> >In article >,
> >> >John HUDSON > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>Read what I said again, and understand that Will Brink is always very
> >> >>quick to jump down the throats of some people for venturing an
> >> >>opinion.
> >> >
> >> >Not that I've noticed.
> >> >
> >> >When he feels like it, he attacks people for posting incorrect facts.
> >> >At least, that's my observation.
> >>
> >> It certainly isn't my observation or experience! It is clear that Will
> >> only likes Will's facts.
> >
> >Incorrect as always.
>
> That's surely an opinion Will! ;o)

Surely a fact :-)

>
> >
> >>
> >> >
> >> >I haven't seen him attack anybody for posting _opinions_ (e.g. whether
> >> >X is more attractive than Y is an opinion; whether workout schedule A
> >> >produces better results than B may be a belief, but it isn't an
> >> >opinion.)
> >>
> >> Perhaps "opinion" is a little weak, but I think you are introducing
> >> semantics here. Maybe a broader description might be the discipline of
> >> ethics Seth.
> >>
> >> For example: the 'ethics' of the bearing of arms can be a topic that
> >> is objective or subjective.
> >
> >It can be, but I base mine on objective data most of the time and make
> >it very clear when i am talking about subjective aspects of that topic.
>
> I don't happen to believe that you do.

Exactly, John, you don't "believe" do. What you believe (feel, think,
wish, etc) does not change the reality that I do. Emotions don't alter
facts, but facts can alter emotions.

>
> >
> >
> >> In Will's closed mind, only Will's way can
> >> be right and any attempt to draw different conclusions, or offer
> >> alternative viewpoints, will result in name-calling like in "moron"
> >> etc.
> >
> >If those points are actualy based on something more than feelings,
> >opinions, etc. I have no problems with it.
>
> Many topics, including the bearing of arms, can for some people only
> ever be an "opinion" in the absence of any personal experience.

That made no sense at all. Experience NEVER alters a topic from
subjective to obective or vise versa. Most people, including yourself
it appears, are unable to seperate the two and or confuse the two.

Second Amend issues = subjective topic
Data on the effects of guns on crime = objective topic

It's not that hard to understand.
>
> >
> >>
> >> I hope that is more clear.
> >
> >Nope.
> >
> >>
> >> >
> >> >Seth
> >>

Steve Gallagher
July 10th 03, 02:03 PM
Nina > wrote in message >...
> On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 13:29:55 -0600, (Keith Hobman)
> wrote:
>
> >In article >, (Seth
> >Breidbart) wrote:
> >
> >Sig of Seth
> >
> >"Seth
> >--
> >Who cares? Shut up and lift. -- Watson (the pencil neck) Davis"
> >
> >reminded me - where is that little pencilneck anyhow?
> >
> >Dayum - I kinda miss his insults and wicked repartee!
>
> I know where he is.


He hasn't gone off to Canada to get a gender-reassignment thingie done,
has he????

Steve Gallagher
July 10th 03, 02:03 PM
Nina > wrote in message >...
> On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 13:29:55 -0600, (Keith Hobman)
> wrote:
>
> >In article >, (Seth
> >Breidbart) wrote:
> >
> >Sig of Seth
> >
> >"Seth
> >--
> >Who cares? Shut up and lift. -- Watson (the pencil neck) Davis"
> >
> >reminded me - where is that little pencilneck anyhow?
> >
> >Dayum - I kinda miss his insults and wicked repartee!
>
> I know where he is.


He hasn't gone off to Canada to get a gender-reassignment thingie done,
has he????

Keith Hobman
July 10th 03, 02:55 PM
In article >,
Nina > wrote:

> On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 13:29:55 -0600, (Keith Hobman)
> wrote:
>
> >In article >, (Seth
> >Breidbart) wrote:
> >
> >Sig of Seth
> >
> >"Seth
> >--
> >Who cares? Shut up and lift. -- Watson (the pencil neck) Davis"
> >
> >reminded me - where is that little pencilneck anyhow?
> >
> >Dayum - I kinda miss his insults and wicked repartee!
>
> I know where he is.

And...

Are you going to go get him?

:^)

Keith Hobman
July 10th 03, 02:55 PM
In article >,
Nina > wrote:

> On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 13:29:55 -0600, (Keith Hobman)
> wrote:
>
> >In article >, (Seth
> >Breidbart) wrote:
> >
> >Sig of Seth
> >
> >"Seth
> >--
> >Who cares? Shut up and lift. -- Watson (the pencil neck) Davis"
> >
> >reminded me - where is that little pencilneck anyhow?
> >
> >Dayum - I kinda miss his insults and wicked repartee!
>
> I know where he is.

And...

Are you going to go get him?

:^)

Nina
July 10th 03, 04:48 PM
On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 07:55:38 -0600, Keith Hobman >
wrote:

>In article >,
> Nina > wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 13:29:55 -0600, (Keith Hobman)
>> wrote:
>>
>> >In article >, (Seth
>> >Breidbart) wrote:
>> >
>> >Sig of Seth
>> >
>> >"Seth
>> >--
>> >Who cares? Shut up and lift. -- Watson (the pencil neck) Davis"
>> >
>> >reminded me - where is that little pencilneck anyhow?
>> >
>> >Dayum - I kinda miss his insults and wicked repartee!
>>
>> I know where he is.
>
>And...
>
>Are you going to go get him?
>
>:^)

Well, I idn't put him there, so I can't go get him. :) But I'll pass
it along...

Cheers,
Nina

delicious! evil! calorie free!
http://www.theslack.com

Nina
July 10th 03, 04:48 PM
On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 07:55:38 -0600, Keith Hobman >
wrote:

>In article >,
> Nina > wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 13:29:55 -0600, (Keith Hobman)
>> wrote:
>>
>> >In article >, (Seth
>> >Breidbart) wrote:
>> >
>> >Sig of Seth
>> >
>> >"Seth
>> >--
>> >Who cares? Shut up and lift. -- Watson (the pencil neck) Davis"
>> >
>> >reminded me - where is that little pencilneck anyhow?
>> >
>> >Dayum - I kinda miss his insults and wicked repartee!
>>
>> I know where he is.
>
>And...
>
>Are you going to go get him?
>
>:^)

Well, I idn't put him there, so I can't go get him. :) But I'll pass
it along...

Cheers,
Nina

delicious! evil! calorie free!
http://www.theslack.com

Mistress Krista
July 11th 03, 12:55 PM
"Steve Gallagher" > wrote in message
om...
>
> He hasn't gone off to Canada to get a gender-reassignment thingie done,
> has he????



Eventually they all do.


Bill

--
--------------------
www.stumptuous.com/weights.html
www.trans-health.com

Mistress Krista
July 11th 03, 12:55 PM
"Steve Gallagher" > wrote in message
om...
>
> He hasn't gone off to Canada to get a gender-reassignment thingie done,
> has he????



Eventually they all do.


Bill

--
--------------------
www.stumptuous.com/weights.html
www.trans-health.com

Lee Michaels
July 11th 03, 01:55 PM
"Mistress Krista" *rem0vethis*> wrote in
message e.rogers.com...
>
> "Steve Gallagher" > wrote in message
> om...
> >
> > He hasn't gone off to Canada to get a gender-reassignment thingie done,
> > has he????
>
>
>
> Eventually they all do.
>
>
Now there is a true Mistriss for you.

Scares all her slaves with tales of gender-reassignment.

Lee Michaels
July 11th 03, 01:55 PM
"Mistress Krista" *rem0vethis*> wrote in
message e.rogers.com...
>
> "Steve Gallagher" > wrote in message
> om...
> >
> > He hasn't gone off to Canada to get a gender-reassignment thingie done,
> > has he????
>
>
>
> Eventually they all do.
>
>
Now there is a true Mistriss for you.

Scares all her slaves with tales of gender-reassignment.

Mistress Krista
July 11th 03, 02:22 PM
"Lee Michaels" > wrote in message
et...
>
> "Mistress Krista" *rem0vethis*> wrote in
> message e.rogers.com...
> >
> > "Steve Gallagher" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > >
> > > He hasn't gone off to Canada to get a gender-reassignment thingie
done,
> > > has he????
> >
> >
> >
> > Eventually they all do.
> >
> >
> Now there is a true Mistriss for you.
>
> Scares all her slaves with tales of gender-reassignment.
>


It's not so scary once you get used to it. We're all happy! We all float
down here!


Krista

--
--------------------
www.stumptuous.com/weights.html
www.trans-health.com

Mistress Krista
July 11th 03, 02:22 PM
"Lee Michaels" > wrote in message
et...
>
> "Mistress Krista" *rem0vethis*> wrote in
> message e.rogers.com...
> >
> > "Steve Gallagher" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > >
> > > He hasn't gone off to Canada to get a gender-reassignment thingie
done,
> > > has he????
> >
> >
> >
> > Eventually they all do.
> >
> >
> Now there is a true Mistriss for you.
>
> Scares all her slaves with tales of gender-reassignment.
>


It's not so scary once you get used to it. We're all happy! We all float
down here!


Krista

--
--------------------
www.stumptuous.com/weights.html
www.trans-health.com

J. Thiessen
July 11th 03, 06:33 PM
Mistress Krista wrote:
>
> "Lee Michaels" > wrote in message
> et...
>>
>> "Mistress Krista" *rem0vethis*> wrote in
>> message e.rogers.com...
>> >
>> > "Steve Gallagher" > wrote in message
>> > om...
>> > >
>> > > He hasn't gone off to Canada to get a gender-reassignment thingie
> done,
>> > > has he????
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Eventually they all do.
>> >
>> >
>> Now there is a true Mistriss for you.
>>
>> Scares all her slaves with tales of gender-reassignment.
>>
>
>
> It's not so scary once you get used to it. We're all happy! We all float
> down here!

I'm terrible at floating. No wonder immigration keeps rejecting my
application.

But I've been building up my cold tolerance, and I watched Strange Brew
another dozen times. Do I really *need* to float?

J.

J. Thiessen
July 11th 03, 06:33 PM
Mistress Krista wrote:
>
> "Lee Michaels" > wrote in message
> et...
>>
>> "Mistress Krista" *rem0vethis*> wrote in
>> message e.rogers.com...
>> >
>> > "Steve Gallagher" > wrote in message
>> > om...
>> > >
>> > > He hasn't gone off to Canada to get a gender-reassignment thingie
> done,
>> > > has he????
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Eventually they all do.
>> >
>> >
>> Now there is a true Mistriss for you.
>>
>> Scares all her slaves with tales of gender-reassignment.
>>
>
>
> It's not so scary once you get used to it. We're all happy! We all float
> down here!

I'm terrible at floating. No wonder immigration keeps rejecting my
application.

But I've been building up my cold tolerance, and I watched Strange Brew
another dozen times. Do I really *need* to float?

J.

gps
July 12th 03, 12:54 AM
Keith Hobman wrote:
>
> In article >,
> Nina > wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 13:29:55 -0600, (Keith Hobman)
> > wrote:
> >
> > >In article >, (Seth
> > >Breidbart) wrote:
> > >
> > >Sig of Seth
> > >
> > >"Seth
> > >--
> > >Who cares? Shut up and lift. -- Watson (the pencil neck) Davis"
> > >
> > >reminded me - where is that little pencilneck anyhow?
> > >
> > >Dayum - I kinda miss his insults and wicked repartee!
> >
> > I know where he is.

He's in Memphis, and I swear I have photographic evidence, but I'm too
lazy to figure out how to make it web accessible. I could email it to
anyone interested though.

> And...
>
> Are you going to go get him?

No one should go to Memphis.
ps

gps
July 12th 03, 12:54 AM
Keith Hobman wrote:
>
> In article >,
> Nina > wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 13:29:55 -0600, (Keith Hobman)
> > wrote:
> >
> > >In article >, (Seth
> > >Breidbart) wrote:
> > >
> > >Sig of Seth
> > >
> > >"Seth
> > >--
> > >Who cares? Shut up and lift. -- Watson (the pencil neck) Davis"
> > >
> > >reminded me - where is that little pencilneck anyhow?
> > >
> > >Dayum - I kinda miss his insults and wicked repartee!
> >
> > I know where he is.

He's in Memphis, and I swear I have photographic evidence, but I'm too
lazy to figure out how to make it web accessible. I could email it to
anyone interested though.

> And...
>
> Are you going to go get him?

No one should go to Memphis.
ps

Keith Hobman
July 12th 03, 02:43 PM
In article >, wrote:

> Keith Hobman wrote:
> >
> > In article >,
> > Nina > wrote:
> >
> > > On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 13:29:55 -0600, (Keith Hobman)
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >In article >, (Seth
> > > >Breidbart) wrote:
> > > >
> > > >Sig of Seth
> > > >
> > > >"Seth
> > > >--
> > > >Who cares? Shut up and lift. -- Watson (the pencil neck) Davis"
> > > >
> > > >reminded me - where is that little pencilneck anyhow?
> > > >
> > > >Dayum - I kinda miss his insults and wicked repartee!
> > >
> > > I know where he is.
>
> He's in Memphis, and I swear I have photographic evidence, but I'm too
> lazy to figure out how to make it web accessible. I could email it to
> anyone interested though.
>
> > And...
> >
> > Are you going to go get him?
>
> No one should go to Memphis.

Help me operator
get me Memphis Tennessee...

--
Keith Hobman

--- email address above is a non-monitored spam sink.

Keith Hobman
July 12th 03, 02:43 PM
In article >, wrote:

> Keith Hobman wrote:
> >
> > In article >,
> > Nina > wrote:
> >
> > > On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 13:29:55 -0600, (Keith Hobman)
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >In article >, (Seth
> > > >Breidbart) wrote:
> > > >
> > > >Sig of Seth
> > > >
> > > >"Seth
> > > >--
> > > >Who cares? Shut up and lift. -- Watson (the pencil neck) Davis"
> > > >
> > > >reminded me - where is that little pencilneck anyhow?
> > > >
> > > >Dayum - I kinda miss his insults and wicked repartee!
> > >
> > > I know where he is.
>
> He's in Memphis, and I swear I have photographic evidence, but I'm too
> lazy to figure out how to make it web accessible. I could email it to
> anyone interested though.
>
> > And...
> >
> > Are you going to go get him?
>
> No one should go to Memphis.

Help me operator
get me Memphis Tennessee...

--
Keith Hobman

--- email address above is a non-monitored spam sink.

Robert Dorf
July 14th 03, 04:27 AM
On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 20:15:21 -0600, Keith Hobman >
wrote:

>In article >,
> "Jim Ranieri" > wrote:
>
>> Keith Hobman wrote in message ...
>> >In article >, wrote:
>> >
>> >> Keith Hobman wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > In article >,
>> >> > Nina > wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > > On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 13:29:55 -0600, (Keith
>> Hobman)
>> >> > > wrote:
>> >> > >
>> >> > > >In article >, (Seth
>> >> > > >Breidbart) wrote:
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >Sig of Seth
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >"Seth
>> >> > > >--
>> >> > > >Who cares? Shut up and lift. -- Watson (the pencil neck) Davis"
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >reminded me - where is that little pencilneck anyhow?
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >Dayum - I kinda miss his insults and wicked repartee!
>> >> > >
>> >> > > I know where he is.
>> >>
>> >> He's in Memphis, and I swear I have photographic evidence, but I'm too
>> >> lazy to figure out how to make it web accessible. I could email it to
>> >> anyone interested though.
>> >>
>> >> > And...
>> >> >
>> >> > Are you going to go get him?
>> >>
>> >> No one should go to Memphis.
>> >
>> >Help me operator
>> >get me Memphis Tennessee...
>> >
>>
>> "...help me find the pencil-neck who'd post so frequently
>>
>> He wore a bright red singlet and he couldn't bench for beans,
>> try to put me through to him in Memphis, Tennessee.."
>>
>> You can still get your daily dose of Watson over at the weightlifting
>> discussion board. Gabrielle is there, too.
>>
>>
>>
>Never liked them boards tho...

Bob Mann is posting there as well.

>I'm trying Deepsquatters right now.
>
Time to practice my lurking.

>But great lyrics!

Agreed. Also the creator of some of MFW's classic posts and
one-liners.

Robert Dorf
July 14th 03, 04:27 AM
On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 20:15:21 -0600, Keith Hobman >
wrote:

>In article >,
> "Jim Ranieri" > wrote:
>
>> Keith Hobman wrote in message ...
>> >In article >, wrote:
>> >
>> >> Keith Hobman wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > In article >,
>> >> > Nina > wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > > On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 13:29:55 -0600, (Keith
>> Hobman)
>> >> > > wrote:
>> >> > >
>> >> > > >In article >, (Seth
>> >> > > >Breidbart) wrote:
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >Sig of Seth
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >"Seth
>> >> > > >--
>> >> > > >Who cares? Shut up and lift. -- Watson (the pencil neck) Davis"
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >reminded me - where is that little pencilneck anyhow?
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >Dayum - I kinda miss his insults and wicked repartee!
>> >> > >
>> >> > > I know where he is.
>> >>
>> >> He's in Memphis, and I swear I have photographic evidence, but I'm too
>> >> lazy to figure out how to make it web accessible. I could email it to
>> >> anyone interested though.
>> >>
>> >> > And...
>> >> >
>> >> > Are you going to go get him?
>> >>
>> >> No one should go to Memphis.
>> >
>> >Help me operator
>> >get me Memphis Tennessee...
>> >
>>
>> "...help me find the pencil-neck who'd post so frequently
>>
>> He wore a bright red singlet and he couldn't bench for beans,
>> try to put me through to him in Memphis, Tennessee.."
>>
>> You can still get your daily dose of Watson over at the weightlifting
>> discussion board. Gabrielle is there, too.
>>
>>
>>
>Never liked them boards tho...

Bob Mann is posting there as well.

>I'm trying Deepsquatters right now.
>
Time to practice my lurking.

>But great lyrics!

Agreed. Also the creator of some of MFW's classic posts and
one-liners.

Robert Dorf
July 14th 03, 11:30 AM
On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 06:07:50 +0100, Big Bill >
wrote:

>On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 20:15:21 -0600, Keith Hobman >
>wrote:
>
>>In article >,
>> "Jim Ranieri" > wrote:
>>
>>> Keith Hobman wrote in message ...
>>> >In article >, wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Keith Hobman wrote:
>>> >> >
>>> >> > In article >,
>>> >> > Nina > wrote:
>>> >> >
>>> >> > > On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 13:29:55 -0600, (Keith
>>> Hobman)
>>> >> > > wrote:
>>> >> > >
>>> >> > > >In article >, (Seth
>>> >> > > >Breidbart) wrote:
>>> >> > > >
>>> >> > > >Sig of Seth
>>> >> > > >
>>> >> > > >"Seth
>>> >> > > >--
>>> >> > > >Who cares? Shut up and lift. -- Watson (the pencil neck) Davis"
>>> >> > > >
>>> >> > > >reminded me - where is that little pencilneck anyhow?
>>> >> > > >
>>> >> > > >Dayum - I kinda miss his insults and wicked repartee!
>>> >> > >
>>> >> > > I know where he is.
>>> >>
>>> >> He's in Memphis, and I swear I have photographic evidence, but I'm too
>>> >> lazy to figure out how to make it web accessible. I could email it to
>>> >> anyone interested though.
>>> >>
>>> >> > And...
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Are you going to go get him?
>>> >>
>>> >> No one should go to Memphis.
>>> >
>>> >Help me operator
>>> >get me Memphis Tennessee...
>>> >
>>>
>>> "...help me find the pencil-neck who'd post so frequently
>>>
>>> He wore a bright red singlet and he couldn't bench for beans,
>>> try to put me through to him in Memphis, Tennessee.."
>>>
>>> You can still get your daily dose of Watson over at the weightlifting
>>> discussion board. Gabrielle is there, too.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Never liked them boards tho...
>>
>>I'm trying Deepsquatters right now.
>>
>>But great lyrics!
>
>What boards are these?
>
http://www.weightliftingdiscussion.com/cgi-bin/wdb.cgi

http://www.deepsquatter.com/phpBB2/phpBB2/

Robert Dorf
July 14th 03, 11:30 AM
On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 06:07:50 +0100, Big Bill >
wrote:

>On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 20:15:21 -0600, Keith Hobman >
>wrote:
>
>>In article >,
>> "Jim Ranieri" > wrote:
>>
>>> Keith Hobman wrote in message ...
>>> >In article >, wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Keith Hobman wrote:
>>> >> >
>>> >> > In article >,
>>> >> > Nina > wrote:
>>> >> >
>>> >> > > On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 13:29:55 -0600, (Keith
>>> Hobman)
>>> >> > > wrote:
>>> >> > >
>>> >> > > >In article >, (Seth
>>> >> > > >Breidbart) wrote:
>>> >> > > >
>>> >> > > >Sig of Seth
>>> >> > > >
>>> >> > > >"Seth
>>> >> > > >--
>>> >> > > >Who cares? Shut up and lift. -- Watson (the pencil neck) Davis"
>>> >> > > >
>>> >> > > >reminded me - where is that little pencilneck anyhow?
>>> >> > > >
>>> >> > > >Dayum - I kinda miss his insults and wicked repartee!
>>> >> > >
>>> >> > > I know where he is.
>>> >>
>>> >> He's in Memphis, and I swear I have photographic evidence, but I'm too
>>> >> lazy to figure out how to make it web accessible. I could email it to
>>> >> anyone interested though.
>>> >>
>>> >> > And...
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Are you going to go get him?
>>> >>
>>> >> No one should go to Memphis.
>>> >
>>> >Help me operator
>>> >get me Memphis Tennessee...
>>> >
>>>
>>> "...help me find the pencil-neck who'd post so frequently
>>>
>>> He wore a bright red singlet and he couldn't bench for beans,
>>> try to put me through to him in Memphis, Tennessee.."
>>>
>>> You can still get your daily dose of Watson over at the weightlifting
>>> discussion board. Gabrielle is there, too.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Never liked them boards tho...
>>
>>I'm trying Deepsquatters right now.
>>
>>But great lyrics!
>
>What boards are these?
>
http://www.weightliftingdiscussion.com/cgi-bin/wdb.cgi

http://www.deepsquatter.com/phpBB2/phpBB2/

Steve Gallagher
July 14th 03, 06:39 PM
"Mistress Krista" *rem0vethis*> wrote in message ers.com>...
> "Steve Gallagher" > wrote in message
> om...
> >
> > He hasn't gone off to Canada to get a gender-reassignment thingie done,
> > has he????
>
>
>
> Eventually they all do.
>
>
> Bill

Forget about it, Mister Sister! Not this guy!! I'm totally and
completely drop-dead butched up and rugged!!!!

Steve Gallagher
July 14th 03, 06:39 PM
"Mistress Krista" *rem0vethis*> wrote in message ers.com>...
> "Steve Gallagher" > wrote in message
> om...
> >
> > He hasn't gone off to Canada to get a gender-reassignment thingie done,
> > has he????
>
>
>
> Eventually they all do.
>
>
> Bill

Forget about it, Mister Sister! Not this guy!! I'm totally and
completely drop-dead butched up and rugged!!!!

Robert Dorf
July 14th 03, 07:06 PM
On 14 Jul 2003 10:39:44 -0700, (Steve
Gallagher) wrote:

>"Mistress Krista" *rem0vethis*> wrote in message ers.com>...
>> "Steve Gallagher" > wrote in message
>> om...
>> >
>> > He hasn't gone off to Canada to get a gender-reassignment thingie done,
>> > has he????
>>
>>
>>
>> Eventually they all do.
>>
>>
>> Bill
>
>Forget about it, Mister Sister! Not this guy!! I'm totally and
>completely drop-dead butched up and rugged!!!!

Your slip is showing.

Robert Dorf
July 14th 03, 07:06 PM
On 14 Jul 2003 10:39:44 -0700, (Steve
Gallagher) wrote:

>"Mistress Krista" *rem0vethis*> wrote in message ers.com>...
>> "Steve Gallagher" > wrote in message
>> om...
>> >
>> > He hasn't gone off to Canada to get a gender-reassignment thingie done,
>> > has he????
>>
>>
>>
>> Eventually they all do.
>>
>>
>> Bill
>
>Forget about it, Mister Sister! Not this guy!! I'm totally and
>completely drop-dead butched up and rugged!!!!

Your slip is showing.

Keith Hobman
July 14th 03, 08:03 PM
In article >,
(Steve Gallagher) wrote:

> "Mistress Krista" *rem0vethis*> wrote in
message
ers.com>...
> > "Steve Gallagher" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > >
> > > He hasn't gone off to Canada to get a gender-reassignment thingie done,
> > > has he????
> >
> >
> >
> > Eventually they all do.
> >
> >
> > Bill
>
> Forget about it, Mister Sister! Not this guy!! I'm totally and
> completely drop-dead butched up and rugged!!!!

No, your not!

HTH.

:^|

--
Keith Hobman

--- email address above is a non-monitored spam sink.

Keith Hobman
July 14th 03, 08:03 PM
In article >,
(Steve Gallagher) wrote:

> "Mistress Krista" *rem0vethis*> wrote in
message
ers.com>...
> > "Steve Gallagher" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > >
> > > He hasn't gone off to Canada to get a gender-reassignment thingie done,
> > > has he????
> >
> >
> >
> > Eventually they all do.
> >
> >
> > Bill
>
> Forget about it, Mister Sister! Not this guy!! I'm totally and
> completely drop-dead butched up and rugged!!!!

No, your not!

HTH.

:^|

--
Keith Hobman

--- email address above is a non-monitored spam sink.

Mistress Krista
July 14th 03, 11:16 PM
"Steve Gallagher" > wrote in message
om...
> "Mistress Krista" *rem0vethis*> wrote in
message ers.com>...
> > "Steve Gallagher" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > >
> > > He hasn't gone off to Canada to get a gender-reassignment thingie
done,
> > > has he????
> >
> >
> >
> > Eventually they all do.
> >
> >
> > Bill
>
> Forget about it, Mister Sister! Not this guy!! I'm totally and
> completely drop-dead butched up and rugged!!!!


Oh yeah, that reminds me, you still have my feather boa that you borrowed
for your drag-n-mahjongg night with the ladies.


Krista

--
--------------------
www.stumptuous.com/weights.html
www.trans-health.com

Mistress Krista
July 14th 03, 11:16 PM
"Steve Gallagher" > wrote in message
om...
> "Mistress Krista" *rem0vethis*> wrote in
message ers.com>...
> > "Steve Gallagher" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > >
> > > He hasn't gone off to Canada to get a gender-reassignment thingie
done,
> > > has he????
> >
> >
> >
> > Eventually they all do.
> >
> >
> > Bill
>
> Forget about it, Mister Sister! Not this guy!! I'm totally and
> completely drop-dead butched up and rugged!!!!


Oh yeah, that reminds me, you still have my feather boa that you borrowed
for your drag-n-mahjongg night with the ladies.


Krista

--
--------------------
www.stumptuous.com/weights.html
www.trans-health.com

Steve Gallagher
July 15th 03, 01:52 PM
"Mistress Krista" *rem0vethis*> wrote in message ogers.com>...
> "Steve Gallagher" > wrote in message
> om...
> > "Mistress Krista" *rem0vethis*> wrote in
> message ers.com>...
> > > "Steve Gallagher" > wrote in message
> > > om...
> > > >
> > > > He hasn't gone off to Canada to get a gender-reassignment thingie
> done,
> > > > has he????
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Eventually they all do.
> > >
> > >
> > > Bill
> >
> > Forget about it, Mister Sister! Not this guy!! I'm totally and
> > completely drop-dead butched up and rugged!!!!
>
>
> Oh yeah, that reminds me, you still have my feather boa that you borrowed
> for your drag-n-mahjongg night with the ladies.


Foucault help me, I'm unmasked!!! Curse yer britches, woman!!!

Steve Gallagher
July 15th 03, 01:52 PM
"Mistress Krista" *rem0vethis*> wrote in message ogers.com>...
> "Steve Gallagher" > wrote in message
> om...
> > "Mistress Krista" *rem0vethis*> wrote in
> message ers.com>...
> > > "Steve Gallagher" > wrote in message
> > > om...
> > > >
> > > > He hasn't gone off to Canada to get a gender-reassignment thingie
> done,
> > > > has he????
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Eventually they all do.
> > >
> > >
> > > Bill
> >
> > Forget about it, Mister Sister! Not this guy!! I'm totally and
> > completely drop-dead butched up and rugged!!!!
>
>
> Oh yeah, that reminds me, you still have my feather boa that you borrowed
> for your drag-n-mahjongg night with the ladies.


Foucault help me, I'm unmasked!!! Curse yer britches, woman!!!

gps
July 17th 03, 05:11 PM
Mistress Krista wrote:
>
> "Steve Gallagher" > wrote in message
> om...
> > "Mistress Krista" *rem0vethis*> wrote in
> message ers.com>...
> > > "Steve Gallagher" > wrote in message
> > > om...
> > > >
> > > > He hasn't gone off to Canada to get a gender-reassignment thingie
> done,
> > > > has he????
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Eventually they all do.
> > >
> > >
> > > Bill
> >
> > Forget about it, Mister Sister! Not this guy!! I'm totally and
> > completely drop-dead butched up and rugged!!!!
>
> Oh yeah, that reminds me, you still have my feather boa that you borrowed
> for your drag-n-mahjongg night with the ladies.


Shouldn't that be "ladies?"
ps

gps
July 17th 03, 05:11 PM
Mistress Krista wrote:
>
> "Steve Gallagher" > wrote in message
> om...
> > "Mistress Krista" *rem0vethis*> wrote in
> message ers.com>...
> > > "Steve Gallagher" > wrote in message
> > > om...
> > > >
> > > > He hasn't gone off to Canada to get a gender-reassignment thingie
> done,
> > > > has he????
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Eventually they all do.
> > >
> > >
> > > Bill
> >
> > Forget about it, Mister Sister! Not this guy!! I'm totally and
> > completely drop-dead butched up and rugged!!!!
>
> Oh yeah, that reminds me, you still have my feather boa that you borrowed
> for your drag-n-mahjongg night with the ladies.


Shouldn't that be "ladies?"
ps

Seth Breidbart
July 25th 03, 01:43 AM
In article >,
JC Der Koenig > wrote:
>"Seth Breidbart" > wrote in message
...
>> In article >,
>> Rumpleforeskin > wrote:
>>
>> >Almost all Americans who identify themselves as black have white
>ancestors --
>> >the white admixture is about 20%, on average -- and many self-designated
>> >whites, Hispanics, and others likewise have mixed ancestry. Because
>research on
>> >intelligence relies on self-classification into distinct racial
>categories, as
>> >does most other social-science research, its findings likewise relate to
>some
>> >unclear mixture of social and biological distinctions among groups (no
>one
>> >claims otherwise).
>>
>> So two families, of similar ancestry, are going to have large
>> measurable differences in IQ based on whether they identify themselves
>> as white or black?
>>
>> How is that not a culture-based difference?
>
>There can be large measurable differences in IQ between two members of the
>same family (as in brothers). Would you consider that a culture-based
>difference?

No, I wouldn't. I didn't say that all differences were culture-based.

Rather, if a family _identifies itself_ a particular way, it is likely
to share that culture.

Seth
--
Of course, common logic fails to hold up here on mfw, as a general rule
of thumb. -- Lyle McDonald

Seth Breidbart
July 25th 03, 01:43 AM
In article >,
JC Der Koenig > wrote:
>"Seth Breidbart" > wrote in message
...
>> In article >,
>> Rumpleforeskin > wrote:
>>
>> >Almost all Americans who identify themselves as black have white
>ancestors --
>> >the white admixture is about 20%, on average -- and many self-designated
>> >whites, Hispanics, and others likewise have mixed ancestry. Because
>research on
>> >intelligence relies on self-classification into distinct racial
>categories, as
>> >does most other social-science research, its findings likewise relate to
>some
>> >unclear mixture of social and biological distinctions among groups (no
>one
>> >claims otherwise).
>>
>> So two families, of similar ancestry, are going to have large
>> measurable differences in IQ based on whether they identify themselves
>> as white or black?
>>
>> How is that not a culture-based difference?
>
>There can be large measurable differences in IQ between two members of the
>same family (as in brothers). Would you consider that a culture-based
>difference?

No, I wouldn't. I didn't say that all differences were culture-based.

Rather, if a family _identifies itself_ a particular way, it is likely
to share that culture.

Seth
--
Of course, common logic fails to hold up here on mfw, as a general rule
of thumb. -- Lyle McDonald

Seth Breidbart
July 25th 03, 01:47 AM
In article >,
Rumpleforeskin > wrote:
>>From: (Seth Breidbart)
>>In article >,
>>Rumpleforeskin > wrote:
>>
>>>Almost all Americans who identify themselves as black have white
>>>ancestors--the white admixture is about 20%, on average -- and many
>>>self-designated whites, Hispanics, and others likewise have mixed
>>>ancestry. Because research on intelligence relies on
>>>self-classification into distinct racial categories, as does most
>>>other social-science research, its findings likewise relate to some
>>>unclear mixture of social and biological distinctions among groups
>>>(no one claims otherwise).
>>
>>So two families, of similar ancestry, are going to have large
>>measurable differences in IQ based on whether they identify themselves
>>as white or black?<<
>
>No.
>
>Racial self-definitions tend to be extremely accurate reflections of
>actual genetic heritage.

But if the differences may be either culture- or genetic- based, and
all we know is that there are differences, and culture and genetics
correlate well, then we don't know (from those studies) which is the
actual cause.

>Jensen encountered some criticism at some point IIRC because he relied upon
>some degree of self-description, ie taking for granted that if "Sam" described
>himself as black, and appeared to be black to the researcher, that he would
>indeed count as black.
>
>But this didn't turn out to amount to anything meaningful or significant.

How was that measured?

Seth
--
This is mfw, nobody wants to raise the quality of the
discourse. -- Lyle McDonald

Seth Breidbart
July 25th 03, 01:47 AM
In article >,
Rumpleforeskin > wrote:
>>From: (Seth Breidbart)
>>In article >,
>>Rumpleforeskin > wrote:
>>
>>>Almost all Americans who identify themselves as black have white
>>>ancestors--the white admixture is about 20%, on average -- and many
>>>self-designated whites, Hispanics, and others likewise have mixed
>>>ancestry. Because research on intelligence relies on
>>>self-classification into distinct racial categories, as does most
>>>other social-science research, its findings likewise relate to some
>>>unclear mixture of social and biological distinctions among groups
>>>(no one claims otherwise).
>>
>>So two families, of similar ancestry, are going to have large
>>measurable differences in IQ based on whether they identify themselves
>>as white or black?<<
>
>No.
>
>Racial self-definitions tend to be extremely accurate reflections of
>actual genetic heritage.

But if the differences may be either culture- or genetic- based, and
all we know is that there are differences, and culture and genetics
correlate well, then we don't know (from those studies) which is the
actual cause.

>Jensen encountered some criticism at some point IIRC because he relied upon
>some degree of self-description, ie taking for granted that if "Sam" described
>himself as black, and appeared to be black to the researcher, that he would
>indeed count as black.
>
>But this didn't turn out to amount to anything meaningful or significant.

How was that measured?

Seth
--
This is mfw, nobody wants to raise the quality of the
discourse. -- Lyle McDonald