PDA

View Full Version : Re: Heart Rate vs. Oxygen Uptake and Breathing


TonytheTiger
July 9th 03, 07:49 PM
"Mike L. Bell" > wrote in message
om...
> I have a quandary which I couldn't solve by searching the newsgroup. I
> am 39 and had been off of the fitness bandwagon for a while. When I
> finally got fed up with my body, I decided to tackle a fitness program
> on my own. I joined a gym and have created my own workout which I've
> followed for about a month now. I feel markedly better and have lost
> weight and have noticed firmer muscle tone.
>
> My question revolves around the aerobic portion of my workout. I
> usually use a recumbent bike or elliptical trainer. Using a heart rate
> monitor, I work out for 30 mins. at about 150 BPM (about 85% of max).
> I've noticed that my heart rate shoots right up when I start off and
> drops down pretty quickly once I stop. The weird thing is that when
> I'm at that rate I am barely breathing. If I push it, I can jack up
> the rate to above 160 and start to breathe more heavily.
>
> My resting heart rate is around 65 (down from over 80 a month ago), so
> I must be getting some benefit out of the existing routine. However, I
> feel that since I'm not breathing at 150 BPM, my oxygen uptake must
> not be that great. Should I be pushing myself to the higher heart rate
> to force more breathing to occur to make more benefit of the workout?
> Or is going above 90% max getting risky for an "old fart" like me?
>
> Thanks for your input,
> Mike
Mike, Since you haven't worked out for a while and are making good progress
just stick with what you're doing. Why chance a coronary? Even though it's
highly unlikely, why take a chance. After you've been working out for six
months, you may want to push harder. Find a exercise physiology text and
read about perceived exertion rate. In effect it means work out at a
comfortable pace. It's smarter to increase the duration of exercise rather
than the intensity. Check your pulse every morning to gauge progress. When
I was running, I found on a day after I ran, my pulse would increase 1-2
beats. The next day, my pulse would be 1-2 beats lower than normal. There
are several methods of figuring 85% max. The one I used is take 85% of the
difference between your max heart rate and your morning heart rate. Add
that to the morning rate to get the 85% Max.

TonytheTiger
July 9th 03, 07:49 PM
"Mike L. Bell" > wrote in message
om...
> I have a quandary which I couldn't solve by searching the newsgroup. I
> am 39 and had been off of the fitness bandwagon for a while. When I
> finally got fed up with my body, I decided to tackle a fitness program
> on my own. I joined a gym and have created my own workout which I've
> followed for about a month now. I feel markedly better and have lost
> weight and have noticed firmer muscle tone.
>
> My question revolves around the aerobic portion of my workout. I
> usually use a recumbent bike or elliptical trainer. Using a heart rate
> monitor, I work out for 30 mins. at about 150 BPM (about 85% of max).
> I've noticed that my heart rate shoots right up when I start off and
> drops down pretty quickly once I stop. The weird thing is that when
> I'm at that rate I am barely breathing. If I push it, I can jack up
> the rate to above 160 and start to breathe more heavily.
>
> My resting heart rate is around 65 (down from over 80 a month ago), so
> I must be getting some benefit out of the existing routine. However, I
> feel that since I'm not breathing at 150 BPM, my oxygen uptake must
> not be that great. Should I be pushing myself to the higher heart rate
> to force more breathing to occur to make more benefit of the workout?
> Or is going above 90% max getting risky for an "old fart" like me?
>
> Thanks for your input,
> Mike
Mike, Since you haven't worked out for a while and are making good progress
just stick with what you're doing. Why chance a coronary? Even though it's
highly unlikely, why take a chance. After you've been working out for six
months, you may want to push harder. Find a exercise physiology text and
read about perceived exertion rate. In effect it means work out at a
comfortable pace. It's smarter to increase the duration of exercise rather
than the intensity. Check your pulse every morning to gauge progress. When
I was running, I found on a day after I ran, my pulse would increase 1-2
beats. The next day, my pulse would be 1-2 beats lower than normal. There
are several methods of figuring 85% max. The one I used is take 85% of the
difference between your max heart rate and your morning heart rate. Add
that to the morning rate to get the 85% Max.

Lyle McDonald
July 9th 03, 11:16 PM
TonytheTiger wrote:
>
> "Mike L. Bell" > wrote in message
> om...
> > I have a quandary which I couldn't solve by searching the newsgroup. I
> > am 39 and had been off of the fitness bandwagon for a while. When I
> > finally got fed up with my body, I decided to tackle a fitness program
> > on my own. I joined a gym and have created my own workout which I've
> > followed for about a month now. I feel markedly better and have lost
> > weight and have noticed firmer muscle tone.
> >
> > My question revolves around the aerobic portion of my workout. I
> > usually use a recumbent bike or elliptical trainer. Using a heart rate
> > monitor, I work out for 30 mins. at about 150 BPM (about 85% of max).
> > I've noticed that my heart rate shoots right up when I start off and
> > drops down pretty quickly once I stop. The weird thing is that when
> > I'm at that rate I am barely breathing. If I push it, I can jack up
> > the rate to above 160 and start to breathe more heavily.
> >
> > My resting heart rate is around 65 (down from over 80 a month ago), so
> > I must be getting some benefit out of the existing routine. However, I
> > feel that since I'm not breathing at 150 BPM, my oxygen uptake must
> > not be that great. Should I be pushing myself to the higher heart rate
> > to force more breathing to occur to make more benefit of the workout?
> > Or is going above 90% max getting risky for an "old fart" like me?
> >
> > Thanks for your input,
> > Mike
> Mike, Since you haven't worked out for a while and are making good progress
> just stick with what you're doing. Why chance a coronary? Even though it's
> highly unlikely, why take a chance. After you've been working out for six
> months, you may want to push harder. Find a exercise physiology text and
> read about perceived exertion rate.

This is a very good suggestion, you should try it.

> In effect it means work out at a comfortable pace.

This isn't even in the same area code of the ballpark of what RPE
actually means.

> It's smarter to increase the duration of exercise rather
> than the intensity.

Why's that?

Lyle

Lyle McDonald
July 9th 03, 11:16 PM
TonytheTiger wrote:
>
> "Mike L. Bell" > wrote in message
> om...
> > I have a quandary which I couldn't solve by searching the newsgroup. I
> > am 39 and had been off of the fitness bandwagon for a while. When I
> > finally got fed up with my body, I decided to tackle a fitness program
> > on my own. I joined a gym and have created my own workout which I've
> > followed for about a month now. I feel markedly better and have lost
> > weight and have noticed firmer muscle tone.
> >
> > My question revolves around the aerobic portion of my workout. I
> > usually use a recumbent bike or elliptical trainer. Using a heart rate
> > monitor, I work out for 30 mins. at about 150 BPM (about 85% of max).
> > I've noticed that my heart rate shoots right up when I start off and
> > drops down pretty quickly once I stop. The weird thing is that when
> > I'm at that rate I am barely breathing. If I push it, I can jack up
> > the rate to above 160 and start to breathe more heavily.
> >
> > My resting heart rate is around 65 (down from over 80 a month ago), so
> > I must be getting some benefit out of the existing routine. However, I
> > feel that since I'm not breathing at 150 BPM, my oxygen uptake must
> > not be that great. Should I be pushing myself to the higher heart rate
> > to force more breathing to occur to make more benefit of the workout?
> > Or is going above 90% max getting risky for an "old fart" like me?
> >
> > Thanks for your input,
> > Mike
> Mike, Since you haven't worked out for a while and are making good progress
> just stick with what you're doing. Why chance a coronary? Even though it's
> highly unlikely, why take a chance. After you've been working out for six
> months, you may want to push harder. Find a exercise physiology text and
> read about perceived exertion rate.

This is a very good suggestion, you should try it.

> In effect it means work out at a comfortable pace.

This isn't even in the same area code of the ballpark of what RPE
actually means.

> It's smarter to increase the duration of exercise rather
> than the intensity.

Why's that?

Lyle

Donovan Rebbechi
July 9th 03, 11:40 PM
In article >, Mike L. Bell
wrote:
> I have a quandary which I couldn't solve by searching the newsgroup. I am 39
> and had been off of the fitness bandwagon for a while. When I finally got fed
> up with my body, I decided to tackle a fitness program on my own. I joined a
> gym and have created my own workout which I've followed for about a month
> now. I feel markedly better and have lost weight and have noticed firmer
> muscle tone.
>
> My question revolves around the aerobic portion of my workout. I
> usually use a recumbent bike or elliptical trainer. Using a heart rate
> monitor, I work out for 30 mins. at about 150 BPM (about 85% of max).

If you're using a chart, then it may not be a correct estimate of your true
max. But actually, from what you've posted here, the program seems to be
working, and your descriptions make it sound as though you're "close enough"
to 85% max.

> I've noticed that my heart rate shoots right up when I start off and
> drops down pretty quickly once I stop.
> The weird thing is that when
> I'm at that rate I am barely breathing. If I push it, I can jack up
> the rate to above 160 and start to breathe more heavily.

This is quite normal. 85% max heart rate is still reasonably comfortable.
You're not necessarily going to be gasping for air in this range. Your heart
rate will drop quickly after exercise if you are in good aerobic condition.

> My resting heart rate is around 65 (down from over 80 a month ago), so
> I must be getting some benefit out of the existing routine.

Yep.

> However, I feel that since I'm not breathing at 150 BPM, my oxygen uptake
> must not be that great.

You don't start gasping for air until you get fairly close to your max. In
other words, that's normal, so don't worry too much about it.

> Should I be pushing myself to the higher heart rate to force more breathing
> to occur to make more benefit of the workout?

Not necessarily.

> Or is going above 90% max getting risky for an "old fart" like me?

As long as you're healthy, going above 90% shouldn't hurt, if that's what you
want to do.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Donovan Rebbechi
July 9th 03, 11:40 PM
In article >, Mike L. Bell
wrote:
> I have a quandary which I couldn't solve by searching the newsgroup. I am 39
> and had been off of the fitness bandwagon for a while. When I finally got fed
> up with my body, I decided to tackle a fitness program on my own. I joined a
> gym and have created my own workout which I've followed for about a month
> now. I feel markedly better and have lost weight and have noticed firmer
> muscle tone.
>
> My question revolves around the aerobic portion of my workout. I
> usually use a recumbent bike or elliptical trainer. Using a heart rate
> monitor, I work out for 30 mins. at about 150 BPM (about 85% of max).

If you're using a chart, then it may not be a correct estimate of your true
max. But actually, from what you've posted here, the program seems to be
working, and your descriptions make it sound as though you're "close enough"
to 85% max.

> I've noticed that my heart rate shoots right up when I start off and
> drops down pretty quickly once I stop.
> The weird thing is that when
> I'm at that rate I am barely breathing. If I push it, I can jack up
> the rate to above 160 and start to breathe more heavily.

This is quite normal. 85% max heart rate is still reasonably comfortable.
You're not necessarily going to be gasping for air in this range. Your heart
rate will drop quickly after exercise if you are in good aerobic condition.

> My resting heart rate is around 65 (down from over 80 a month ago), so
> I must be getting some benefit out of the existing routine.

Yep.

> However, I feel that since I'm not breathing at 150 BPM, my oxygen uptake
> must not be that great.

You don't start gasping for air until you get fairly close to your max. In
other words, that's normal, so don't worry too much about it.

> Should I be pushing myself to the higher heart rate to force more breathing
> to occur to make more benefit of the workout?

Not necessarily.

> Or is going above 90% max getting risky for an "old fart" like me?

As long as you're healthy, going above 90% shouldn't hurt, if that's what you
want to do.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

ignorcrew
July 10th 03, 04:04 PM
(Mike L. Bell) wrote in message >...
> I have a quandary which I couldn't solve by searching the newsgroup. I
> am 39 and had been off of the fitness bandwagon for a while. When I
> finally got fed up with my body, I decided to tackle a fitness program
> on my own. I joined a gym and have created my own workout which I've
> followed for about a month now. I feel markedly better and have lost
> weight and have noticed firmer muscle tone.
>
> My question revolves around the aerobic portion of my workout. I
> usually use a recumbent bike or elliptical trainer. Using a heart rate
> monitor, I work out for 30 mins. at about 150 BPM (about 85% of max).
> I've noticed that my heart rate shoots right up when I start off and
> drops down pretty quickly once I stop. The weird thing is that when
> I'm at that rate I am barely breathing. If I push it, I can jack up
> the rate to above 160 and start to breathe more heavily.
>
> My resting heart rate is around 65 (down from over 80 a month ago), so
> I must be getting some benefit out of the existing routine. However, I
> feel that since I'm not breathing at 150 BPM, my oxygen uptake must
> not be that great. Should I be pushing myself to the higher heart rate
> to force more breathing to occur to make more benefit of the workout?
> Or is going above 90% max getting risky for an "old fart" like me?
>
> Thanks for your input,
> Mike

(This is a repost. It appeared that the first post got lost, but if
not, I will be repeating myself)

What you do all depends on what you are trying to accomplish. Is it
fat burning? Faster running speed?

I run at about 80% MHR when I want to go a distance. At this rate, as
you have mentioned, you are breathing lightly and can last almost
forever. Running at 80% will allow you, over time, to increase your
running distance. In other words, it trains endurance.

I run at 90% or higher when I alternate that pace with slower rest
pace to either produce more fat burning or increase my max running
speed. With this practive, I was able to raise my speed from about 4.5
MHP years ago to 9.0 max today.

P.S.

I am older than you but did put myself through stress test to get a
cardiologist's clearance to take my heart to the maximum rate.
According to him, it is not a problem for a healthy person. The age is
not really an issue.

ignorcrew
July 10th 03, 04:04 PM
(Mike L. Bell) wrote in message >...
> I have a quandary which I couldn't solve by searching the newsgroup. I
> am 39 and had been off of the fitness bandwagon for a while. When I
> finally got fed up with my body, I decided to tackle a fitness program
> on my own. I joined a gym and have created my own workout which I've
> followed for about a month now. I feel markedly better and have lost
> weight and have noticed firmer muscle tone.
>
> My question revolves around the aerobic portion of my workout. I
> usually use a recumbent bike or elliptical trainer. Using a heart rate
> monitor, I work out for 30 mins. at about 150 BPM (about 85% of max).
> I've noticed that my heart rate shoots right up when I start off and
> drops down pretty quickly once I stop. The weird thing is that when
> I'm at that rate I am barely breathing. If I push it, I can jack up
> the rate to above 160 and start to breathe more heavily.
>
> My resting heart rate is around 65 (down from over 80 a month ago), so
> I must be getting some benefit out of the existing routine. However, I
> feel that since I'm not breathing at 150 BPM, my oxygen uptake must
> not be that great. Should I be pushing myself to the higher heart rate
> to force more breathing to occur to make more benefit of the workout?
> Or is going above 90% max getting risky for an "old fart" like me?
>
> Thanks for your input,
> Mike

(This is a repost. It appeared that the first post got lost, but if
not, I will be repeating myself)

What you do all depends on what you are trying to accomplish. Is it
fat burning? Faster running speed?

I run at about 80% MHR when I want to go a distance. At this rate, as
you have mentioned, you are breathing lightly and can last almost
forever. Running at 80% will allow you, over time, to increase your
running distance. In other words, it trains endurance.

I run at 90% or higher when I alternate that pace with slower rest
pace to either produce more fat burning or increase my max running
speed. With this practive, I was able to raise my speed from about 4.5
MHP years ago to 9.0 max today.

P.S.

I am older than you but did put myself through stress test to get a
cardiologist's clearance to take my heart to the maximum rate.
According to him, it is not a problem for a healthy person. The age is
not really an issue.

TonytheTiger
July 10th 03, 06:28 PM
"Lyle McDonald" > wrote in message
...
> TonytheTiger wrote:
> >
> > "Mike L. Bell" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > > I have a quandary which I couldn't solve by searching the newsgroup. I
> > > am 39 and had been off of the fitness bandwagon for a while. When I
> > > finally got fed up with my body, I decided to tackle a fitness program
> > > on my own. I joined a gym and have created my own workout which I've
> > > followed for about a month now. I feel markedly better and have lost
> > > weight and have noticed firmer muscle tone.
> > >
> > > My question revolves around the aerobic portion of my workout. I
> > > usually use a recumbent bike or elliptical trainer. Using a heart rate
> > > monitor, I work out for 30 mins. at about 150 BPM (about 85% of max).
> > > I've noticed that my heart rate shoots right up when I start off and
> > > drops down pretty quickly once I stop. The weird thing is that when
> > > I'm at that rate I am barely breathing. If I push it, I can jack up
> > > the rate to above 160 and start to breathe more heavily.
> > >
> > > My resting heart rate is around 65 (down from over 80 a month ago), so
> > > I must be getting some benefit out of the existing routine. However, I
> > > feel that since I'm not breathing at 150 BPM, my oxygen uptake must
> > > not be that great. Should I be pushing myself to the higher heart rate
> > > to force more breathing to occur to make more benefit of the workout?
> > > Or is going above 90% max getting risky for an "old fart" like me?
> > >
> > > Thanks for your input,
> > > Mike
> > Mike, Since you haven't worked out for a while and are making good
progress
> > just stick with what you're doing. Why chance a coronary? Even though
it's
> > highly unlikely, why take a chance. After you've been working out for
six
> > months, you may want to push harder. Find a exercise physiology text
and
> > read about perceived exertion rate.
>
> This is a very good suggestion, you should try it.
>
> > In effect it means work out at a comfortable pace.
>
> This isn't even in the same area code of the ballpark of what RPE
> actually means.
>
> > It's smarter to increase the duration of exercise rather
> > than the intensity.
>
> Why's that?
>
> Lyle
Lyle, There are two reasons why it's better to increase duration rather than
intensity. High intensity running results in lactic acid production which
makes most people feel uncomfortable. The closer one works to maximum, the
greater chance of having a coronary. My reasoning is that most people
probable have some blockage in their coronary arteries. If you run full
bore, and you have partial blockage the heart won't get the oxygen it needs
resulting in angina pains or a coronary. Additionally, some people have no
blockage but are prone to cardiac arrhythmias which are more likely to be
set off by intense exercise.

TonytheTiger
July 10th 03, 06:28 PM
"Lyle McDonald" > wrote in message
...
> TonytheTiger wrote:
> >
> > "Mike L. Bell" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > > I have a quandary which I couldn't solve by searching the newsgroup. I
> > > am 39 and had been off of the fitness bandwagon for a while. When I
> > > finally got fed up with my body, I decided to tackle a fitness program
> > > on my own. I joined a gym and have created my own workout which I've
> > > followed for about a month now. I feel markedly better and have lost
> > > weight and have noticed firmer muscle tone.
> > >
> > > My question revolves around the aerobic portion of my workout. I
> > > usually use a recumbent bike or elliptical trainer. Using a heart rate
> > > monitor, I work out for 30 mins. at about 150 BPM (about 85% of max).
> > > I've noticed that my heart rate shoots right up when I start off and
> > > drops down pretty quickly once I stop. The weird thing is that when
> > > I'm at that rate I am barely breathing. If I push it, I can jack up
> > > the rate to above 160 and start to breathe more heavily.
> > >
> > > My resting heart rate is around 65 (down from over 80 a month ago), so
> > > I must be getting some benefit out of the existing routine. However, I
> > > feel that since I'm not breathing at 150 BPM, my oxygen uptake must
> > > not be that great. Should I be pushing myself to the higher heart rate
> > > to force more breathing to occur to make more benefit of the workout?
> > > Or is going above 90% max getting risky for an "old fart" like me?
> > >
> > > Thanks for your input,
> > > Mike
> > Mike, Since you haven't worked out for a while and are making good
progress
> > just stick with what you're doing. Why chance a coronary? Even though
it's
> > highly unlikely, why take a chance. After you've been working out for
six
> > months, you may want to push harder. Find a exercise physiology text
and
> > read about perceived exertion rate.
>
> This is a very good suggestion, you should try it.
>
> > In effect it means work out at a comfortable pace.
>
> This isn't even in the same area code of the ballpark of what RPE
> actually means.
>
> > It's smarter to increase the duration of exercise rather
> > than the intensity.
>
> Why's that?
>
> Lyle
Lyle, There are two reasons why it's better to increase duration rather than
intensity. High intensity running results in lactic acid production which
makes most people feel uncomfortable. The closer one works to maximum, the
greater chance of having a coronary. My reasoning is that most people
probable have some blockage in their coronary arteries. If you run full
bore, and you have partial blockage the heart won't get the oxygen it needs
resulting in angina pains or a coronary. Additionally, some people have no
blockage but are prone to cardiac arrhythmias which are more likely to be
set off by intense exercise.

Lyle McDonald
July 10th 03, 09:18 PM
TonytheTiger wrote:
>
> "Lyle McDonald" > wrote in message
> ...
> > TonytheTiger wrote:

> > > In effect it means work out at a comfortable pace.
> >
> > This isn't even in the same area code of the ballpark of what RPE
> > actually means.
> >
> > > It's smarter to increase the duration of exercise rather
> > > than the intensity.
> >
> > Why's that?
> >
> > Lyle
> Lyle, There are two reasons why it's better to increase duration rather than
> intensity. High intensity running results in lactic acid production which
> makes most people feel uncomfortable.

Awww, how sad for them.

what if someone wants to improve their performance, or lactate threshold
or, I don't know, their actual fitness?

>The closer one works to maximum, the
> greater chance of having a coronary. My reasoning is that most people
> probable have some blockage in their coronary arteries. If you run full
> bore, and you have partial blockage the heart won't get the oxygen it needs
> resulting in angina pains or a coronary. Additionally, some people have no
> blockage but are prone to cardiac arrhythmias which are more likely to be
> set off by intense exercise.

you take being a ****ing idiot to entirely new levels.

Lyle

Lyle McDonald
July 10th 03, 09:18 PM
TonytheTiger wrote:
>
> "Lyle McDonald" > wrote in message
> ...
> > TonytheTiger wrote:

> > > In effect it means work out at a comfortable pace.
> >
> > This isn't even in the same area code of the ballpark of what RPE
> > actually means.
> >
> > > It's smarter to increase the duration of exercise rather
> > > than the intensity.
> >
> > Why's that?
> >
> > Lyle
> Lyle, There are two reasons why it's better to increase duration rather than
> intensity. High intensity running results in lactic acid production which
> makes most people feel uncomfortable.

Awww, how sad for them.

what if someone wants to improve their performance, or lactate threshold
or, I don't know, their actual fitness?

>The closer one works to maximum, the
> greater chance of having a coronary. My reasoning is that most people
> probable have some blockage in their coronary arteries. If you run full
> bore, and you have partial blockage the heart won't get the oxygen it needs
> resulting in angina pains or a coronary. Additionally, some people have no
> blockage but are prone to cardiac arrhythmias which are more likely to be
> set off by intense exercise.

you take being a ****ing idiot to entirely new levels.

Lyle