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FA
July 11th 03, 04:47 AM
I've been trying to loose fat and build muscle at the same time. Since may,
I've lost 20 pounds of weight from once a week of 30min runs, weights, and a
descent diet (eating less and healthy, but not too restrctive). I'm just
wondering though if the dieting could be hampering my muscle building
efforst. I don't wanna get too big, but also don't want my weight lifting
efforst to go to waste.

Some ppl have said its better just to train with weights, and loose weight
later and not to do the same if the aim is to buildl muscle.

Thanks

The Queen of Cans and Jars
July 11th 03, 05:16 AM
Rumpleforeskin > wrote:

> Tell me...how DO you build "loose fat?"

put it in a burlap sack and smack it around?

The Queen of Cans and Jars
July 11th 03, 05:16 AM
Rumpleforeskin > wrote:

> Tell me...how DO you build "loose fat?"

put it in a burlap sack and smack it around?

Lee Michaels
July 11th 03, 06:14 AM
"The Queen of Cans and Jars" > wrote in message
. ..
> Rumpleforeskin > wrote:
>
> > Tell me...how DO you build "loose fat?"
>
> put it in a burlap sack and smack it around?

Jump around a lot while consuming dozens of Krispy Kreme donuts??

Lee Michaels
July 11th 03, 06:14 AM
"The Queen of Cans and Jars" > wrote in message
. ..
> Rumpleforeskin > wrote:
>
> > Tell me...how DO you build "loose fat?"
>
> put it in a burlap sack and smack it around?

Jump around a lot while consuming dozens of Krispy Kreme donuts??

Chaser
July 11th 03, 06:39 PM
On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 06:05:55 -0500, "Kragness1"
> wrote:

>You can maintain muscle and lose fat by going on a low-carb diet.
>-Scott
>
>
>"FA" > wrote in message
able.rogers.com...
>> I've been trying to loose fat and build muscle at the same time. Since
>may,
>> I've lost 20 pounds of weight from once a week of 30min runs, weights, and
>a
>> descent diet (eating less and healthy, but not too restrctive). I'm just
>> wondering though if the dieting could be hampering my muscle building
>> efforst. I don't wanna get too big, but also don't want my weight lifting
>> efforst to go to waste.
>>
>> Some ppl have said its better just to train with weights, and loose weight
>> later and not to do the same if the aim is to buildl muscle.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>

It can be done on a relatively high-carb intake as well. You'll be
giving yourself great amounts of muscle glycogen levels for hard
workouts. If you don't have enough energy from carbs, then
muscle-wasting has a better medium to occur. Along with that, you can
do that cardio 4-5 times/week of course to continue fat loss. The
general train of thought here is you need to be carb restrictive and
do lots and lots of cardio. This isn't so.

Just adding more :)

Chaser
July 11th 03, 06:39 PM
On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 06:05:55 -0500, "Kragness1"
> wrote:

>You can maintain muscle and lose fat by going on a low-carb diet.
>-Scott
>
>
>"FA" > wrote in message
able.rogers.com...
>> I've been trying to loose fat and build muscle at the same time. Since
>may,
>> I've lost 20 pounds of weight from once a week of 30min runs, weights, and
>a
>> descent diet (eating less and healthy, but not too restrctive). I'm just
>> wondering though if the dieting could be hampering my muscle building
>> efforst. I don't wanna get too big, but also don't want my weight lifting
>> efforst to go to waste.
>>
>> Some ppl have said its better just to train with weights, and loose weight
>> later and not to do the same if the aim is to buildl muscle.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>

It can be done on a relatively high-carb intake as well. You'll be
giving yourself great amounts of muscle glycogen levels for hard
workouts. If you don't have enough energy from carbs, then
muscle-wasting has a better medium to occur. Along with that, you can
do that cardio 4-5 times/week of course to continue fat loss. The
general train of thought here is you need to be carb restrictive and
do lots and lots of cardio. This isn't so.

Just adding more :)

Matti Kolu
July 11th 03, 07:43 PM
"Chaser" > skrev i meddelandet
...
> The
> general train of thought here is you need to be carb restrictive and
> do lots and lots of cardio.

IMO, the general diet recommendation here looks more like:

eat less than you consume
eat enough protein and EFA's

carbs are usually not mentioned.

and when it comes to training:

Weigh train a couple of times per week
add cardio if you wish (low intensity stuff or HIIT depending on who you
are)

Matti

Matti Kolu
July 11th 03, 07:43 PM
"Chaser" > skrev i meddelandet
...
> The
> general train of thought here is you need to be carb restrictive and
> do lots and lots of cardio.

IMO, the general diet recommendation here looks more like:

eat less than you consume
eat enough protein and EFA's

carbs are usually not mentioned.

and when it comes to training:

Weigh train a couple of times per week
add cardio if you wish (low intensity stuff or HIIT depending on who you
are)

Matti

Matti Kolu
July 11th 03, 07:45 PM
"Matti Kolu" > skrev i meddelandet
...

> Weigh

Where's the edit button?

Weight.

Matti

Matti Kolu
July 11th 03, 07:45 PM
"Matti Kolu" > skrev i meddelandet
...

> Weigh

Where's the edit button?

Weight.

Matti

Oliver C. Jung
July 11th 03, 09:27 PM
"FA" > schrieb:

>Some ppl have said its better just to train with weights, and
>loose weight later and not to do the same if the aim is to buildl
>muscle.

The answer to this question is like a religious prayer for years
now.

Although many people do believe that it is not possible to gain
lean muscle mass while decreasing fat I know quite a few people
how did (including myself).

In my opinion it is a question of WHEN you try to combine both
goals. If you are a beginner it seems to beasier to reach both of
them while for advanced athletes it seems to be more difficult.

Here is my piece of advice:

Simply try to combine both. Measure your body fat percentage
regularly and find out whether it works for you or not.
And don't forget to let us know...

ocj
--
Oliver C. Jung - Dortmund/Bochum - Germany

Oliver C. Jung
July 11th 03, 09:27 PM
"FA" > schrieb:

>Some ppl have said its better just to train with weights, and
>loose weight later and not to do the same if the aim is to buildl
>muscle.

The answer to this question is like a religious prayer for years
now.

Although many people do believe that it is not possible to gain
lean muscle mass while decreasing fat I know quite a few people
how did (including myself).

In my opinion it is a question of WHEN you try to combine both
goals. If you are a beginner it seems to beasier to reach both of
them while for advanced athletes it seems to be more difficult.

Here is my piece of advice:

Simply try to combine both. Measure your body fat percentage
regularly and find out whether it works for you or not.
And don't forget to let us know...

ocj
--
Oliver C. Jung - Dortmund/Bochum - Germany

FA
July 11th 03, 10:42 PM
LOL! I'm glad my little typo provided ppl with some comic material.

"Lee Michaels" > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> "The Queen of Cans and Jars" > wrote in message
> . ..
> > Rumpleforeskin > wrote:
> >
> > > Tell me...how DO you build "loose fat?"
> >
> > put it in a burlap sack and smack it around?
>
> Jump around a lot while consuming dozens of Krispy Kreme donuts??
>
>
>

FA
July 11th 03, 10:42 PM
LOL! I'm glad my little typo provided ppl with some comic material.

"Lee Michaels" > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> "The Queen of Cans and Jars" > wrote in message
> . ..
> > Rumpleforeskin > wrote:
> >
> > > Tell me...how DO you build "loose fat?"
> >
> > put it in a burlap sack and smack it around?
>
> Jump around a lot while consuming dozens of Krispy Kreme donuts??
>
>
>

August Pamplona
July 11th 03, 11:46 PM
"Horace" > wrote in message
...
> You can not build muscle and loose fat at the same time, your body
cannot
> function both ways.

Sure you can and it's trivial to do so. Sumo wrestlers typicaly do
rather well at building muscle and loose fat. Just do whatever they do
(lots of training and lots of eating).

August Pamplona
--
"No, jew. Your jew opinion doesn't matter no matter what, jew. Your
writings deserve no comprehension, merely scorn, jew. You are jew."
-Lysis on m.f.w.

a.a. # 1811 apatriot #20
To email replace 'necatoramericanusancylostomaduodenale' with
'cosmicaug'

[snip]

August Pamplona
July 11th 03, 11:46 PM
"Horace" > wrote in message
...
> You can not build muscle and loose fat at the same time, your body
cannot
> function both ways.

Sure you can and it's trivial to do so. Sumo wrestlers typicaly do
rather well at building muscle and loose fat. Just do whatever they do
(lots of training and lots of eating).

August Pamplona
--
"No, jew. Your jew opinion doesn't matter no matter what, jew. Your
writings deserve no comprehension, merely scorn, jew. You are jew."
-Lysis on m.f.w.

a.a. # 1811 apatriot #20
To email replace 'necatoramericanusancylostomaduodenale' with
'cosmicaug'

[snip]

Fascinet
July 12th 03, 03:54 AM
..



Why do you want to build loose fat?

Fascinet
July 12th 03, 03:54 AM
..



Why do you want to build loose fat?

Bob Garrison
July 12th 03, 04:28 AM
"Fascinet" > wrote in message
om...
> .
>
>
>
> Why do you want to build loose fat?

If he builds it they will come.

Bob Garrison
July 12th 03, 04:28 AM
"Fascinet" > wrote in message
om...
> .
>
>
>
> Why do you want to build loose fat?

If he builds it they will come.

Chaser
July 12th 03, 06:26 PM
On 11 Jul 2003 18:54:00 -0700, (Fascinet)
wrote:

>.
>
>
>
>Why do you want to build loose fat?

Well, sometimes it does look sexy for it to be moving around like
jello.

Other than that, I'm sure there's a way he can build muscle and lose
some portion of body-fat. It's just that the diet has to be highly
strict. And I don't mean no carbs either.

Chaser
July 12th 03, 06:26 PM
On 11 Jul 2003 18:54:00 -0700, (Fascinet)
wrote:

>.
>
>
>
>Why do you want to build loose fat?

Well, sometimes it does look sexy for it to be moving around like
jello.

Other than that, I'm sure there's a way he can build muscle and lose
some portion of body-fat. It's just that the diet has to be highly
strict. And I don't mean no carbs either.

David Cohen
July 20th 03, 03:51 AM
"Ryan Atici" > wrote
> It might sound contradictory to work out to lose fat and work out to
build
> lean muscle at first, but it actually isn't contradictory.
>
> Some think it is contradictory because in order to build lean
muscle, you
> need to eat, eat, eat, and work out systematically by sticking to a
heavy
> workout schedule. On the other hand, to lose fat, you need to stop
eating
> (actually, "stop eating" mentality is not correct. To be more
precise, stop
> eating food loaded with high calories) and start working out until
your body
> runs out calories in your system to a degree that it resorts to
stored
> calories known as fat in your body.
>
> In order to build lean muscle, a normal guy who is not fat needs to
eat
> a) to gain calories so that he can pump weights and get through his
heavy
> workout schedule.
> b) to eat to gain protein.
>
> Some foods have very little, or no protein but loaded with calories.
That
> kind of stuff you need to stay away from. You need to shock your
body with
> the amount of workout and the lack of calorie intake.
>
> Even though you avoid foods loaded with calories, you will still get
some
> amount of calories from other foods with very high proteins, but
that's
> okay.
>
> First, you may feel tired, and fatigue even before you do any kind
of
> workout because of lack of calorie intake. Don't be alarmed
everything will
> roll into balance later on as you allow enough time for your body to
> abstract protein. Calories are abstracted a lot faster than proteins
from
> food you eat.
>
> Just because you work out to fatigue in gym so that your body
resorts to
> stored calories (also known as fat) in your body, you still won't
lose fat
> if you don't particularly work out that part of your body where the
fat is.
> If the fat is on your belly, you will not lose it by doing curls
24/7.

YES! Now we have a contest. David Eynon and Mr Atici will make Idiot
of the Month voting more interesting. Well done.

David
--
I we Todd did.
I sofa king we Todd did.

David Cohen
July 20th 03, 03:51 AM
"Ryan Atici" > wrote
> It might sound contradictory to work out to lose fat and work out to
build
> lean muscle at first, but it actually isn't contradictory.
>
> Some think it is contradictory because in order to build lean
muscle, you
> need to eat, eat, eat, and work out systematically by sticking to a
heavy
> workout schedule. On the other hand, to lose fat, you need to stop
eating
> (actually, "stop eating" mentality is not correct. To be more
precise, stop
> eating food loaded with high calories) and start working out until
your body
> runs out calories in your system to a degree that it resorts to
stored
> calories known as fat in your body.
>
> In order to build lean muscle, a normal guy who is not fat needs to
eat
> a) to gain calories so that he can pump weights and get through his
heavy
> workout schedule.
> b) to eat to gain protein.
>
> Some foods have very little, or no protein but loaded with calories.
That
> kind of stuff you need to stay away from. You need to shock your
body with
> the amount of workout and the lack of calorie intake.
>
> Even though you avoid foods loaded with calories, you will still get
some
> amount of calories from other foods with very high proteins, but
that's
> okay.
>
> First, you may feel tired, and fatigue even before you do any kind
of
> workout because of lack of calorie intake. Don't be alarmed
everything will
> roll into balance later on as you allow enough time for your body to
> abstract protein. Calories are abstracted a lot faster than proteins
from
> food you eat.
>
> Just because you work out to fatigue in gym so that your body
resorts to
> stored calories (also known as fat) in your body, you still won't
lose fat
> if you don't particularly work out that part of your body where the
fat is.
> If the fat is on your belly, you will not lose it by doing curls
24/7.

YES! Now we have a contest. David Eynon and Mr Atici will make Idiot
of the Month voting more interesting. Well done.

David
--
I we Todd did.
I sofa king we Todd did.

JC Der Koenig
July 20th 03, 04:05 AM
>
> "Ryan Atici" > wrote

> > You need to shock your body with
> > the amount of workout and the lack of calorie intake.
> >
> > Don't be alarmed everything will
> > roll into balance later on as you allow enough time for your body to
> > abstract protein. Calories are abstracted a lot faster than proteins
from
> > food you eat.
> >

Classic stuff here.

JC Der Koenig
July 20th 03, 04:05 AM
>
> "Ryan Atici" > wrote

> > You need to shock your body with
> > the amount of workout and the lack of calorie intake.
> >
> > Don't be alarmed everything will
> > roll into balance later on as you allow enough time for your body to
> > abstract protein. Calories are abstracted a lot faster than proteins
from
> > food you eat.
> >

Classic stuff here.

Ryan Atici
July 20th 03, 05:42 AM
> Classic stuff here.

It didn't claim it was a secret. It is something known that works...

Ryan Atici
July 20th 03, 05:42 AM
> Classic stuff here.

It didn't claim it was a secret. It is something known that works...

JC Der Koenig
July 20th 03, 05:54 AM
"Ryan Atici" > wrote in message
...
> > Classic stuff here.
>
> It didn't claim it was a secret. It is something known that works...
>
>
>

Yeah buddy. I want to hear more about the abstraction.

JC Der Koenig
July 20th 03, 05:54 AM
"Ryan Atici" > wrote in message
...
> > Classic stuff here.
>
> It didn't claim it was a secret. It is something known that works...
>
>
>

Yeah buddy. I want to hear more about the abstraction.

Art S
July 20th 03, 07:18 AM
"David Cohen" > wrote in message
hlink.net...
>
>
> YES! Now we have a contest. David Eynon and Mr Atici will make Idiot
> of the Month voting more interesting. Well done.
>
> David

By and large, Ryan's statements seemed reasonable (although there are
one or two that bother me). Perhaps you could mention some of the ones
you don't accept, and he can explain?

Art

Art S
July 20th 03, 07:18 AM
"David Cohen" > wrote in message
hlink.net...
>
>
> YES! Now we have a contest. David Eynon and Mr Atici will make Idiot
> of the Month voting more interesting. Well done.
>
> David

By and large, Ryan's statements seemed reasonable (although there are
one or two that bother me). Perhaps you could mention some of the ones
you don't accept, and he can explain?

Art

David Cohen
July 20th 03, 11:08 AM
"Art S" > wrote
> "David Cohen" > wrote

> > YES! Now we have a contest. David Eynon and Mr Atici will make
Idiot
> > of the Month voting more interesting. Well done.
>
> By and large, Ryan's statements seemed reasonable (although there
are
> one or two that bother me). Perhaps you could mention some of the
ones
> you don't accept, and he can explain?

One or two? OK...

"Ryan Atici" > wrote
> It might sound contradictory to work out to lose fat and work out to
build
> lean muscle at first, but it actually isn't contradictory.

Optimal workout for losing fat and optimal workout for muscle gain are
different. "Building lean muscle" is a phrase of idiots. Define "lean
muscle".
>
> Some think it is contradictory because in order to build lean
muscle, you
> need to eat, eat, eat,

I assume this means extremely high calorie excess over maintenance
("eat, eat, eat"). That is incorrect.

> and work out systematically by sticking to a heavy
> workout schedule.

A well-designed workout schedule does not need to be anything defined
by "heavy workout schedule".

> On the other hand, to lose fat, you need to stop eating
> (actually, "stop eating" mentality is not correct. To be more
precise, stop
> eating food loaded with high calories)

Bull****. To lose fat you need to create any degree of calorie deficit
and combine it with a properly designed exercise routine.

> and start working out until your body
> runs out calories in your system to a degree that it resorts to
stored
> calories known as fat in your body.

Explain this bull****. Define "runs out of calories". Why will
whatever your definition is, cause lipolysis, rather than the use of
glycogen or muscle tissue, for energy?
>
> In order to build lean muscle, a normal guy who is not fat needs to
eat
> a) to gain calories so that he can pump weights and get through his
heavy
> workout schedule.
> b) to eat to gain protein.
>
> Some foods have very little, or no protein but loaded with calories.
That
> kind of stuff you need to stay away from.

Bull****. As long as you ingest sufficient protein, the rest of your
caloric intake can be nearly anything you want.

>You need to shock your body with
> the amount of workout and the lack of calorie intake.

Bull****. No degree or type of "shock" is needed.
>
> Even though you avoid foods loaded with calories, you will still get
some
> amount of calories from other foods with very high proteins, but
that's
> okay.

Bull****. See above.
>
> First, you may feel tired, and fatigue even before you do any kind
of
> workout because of lack of calorie intake. Don't be alarmed
everything will
> roll into balance later on as you allow enough time for your body to
> abstract protein.

Define the nonsensical term "abstract protein".

> Calories are abstracted a lot faster than proteins from
> food you eat.

Lewis Carroll would be proud.
>
> Just because you work out to fatigue in gym so that your body
resorts to
> stored calories (also known as fat) in your body, you still won't
lose fat
> if you don't particularly work out that part of your body where the
fat is.
> If the fat is on your belly, you will not lose it by doing curls
24/7.

Yes. let's end the post with spot reducing. A fine closing idiocy.

Yeah, one or two little problems, Art. One or two...

David

David Cohen
July 20th 03, 11:08 AM
"Art S" > wrote
> "David Cohen" > wrote

> > YES! Now we have a contest. David Eynon and Mr Atici will make
Idiot
> > of the Month voting more interesting. Well done.
>
> By and large, Ryan's statements seemed reasonable (although there
are
> one or two that bother me). Perhaps you could mention some of the
ones
> you don't accept, and he can explain?

One or two? OK...

"Ryan Atici" > wrote
> It might sound contradictory to work out to lose fat and work out to
build
> lean muscle at first, but it actually isn't contradictory.

Optimal workout for losing fat and optimal workout for muscle gain are
different. "Building lean muscle" is a phrase of idiots. Define "lean
muscle".
>
> Some think it is contradictory because in order to build lean
muscle, you
> need to eat, eat, eat,

I assume this means extremely high calorie excess over maintenance
("eat, eat, eat"). That is incorrect.

> and work out systematically by sticking to a heavy
> workout schedule.

A well-designed workout schedule does not need to be anything defined
by "heavy workout schedule".

> On the other hand, to lose fat, you need to stop eating
> (actually, "stop eating" mentality is not correct. To be more
precise, stop
> eating food loaded with high calories)

Bull****. To lose fat you need to create any degree of calorie deficit
and combine it with a properly designed exercise routine.

> and start working out until your body
> runs out calories in your system to a degree that it resorts to
stored
> calories known as fat in your body.

Explain this bull****. Define "runs out of calories". Why will
whatever your definition is, cause lipolysis, rather than the use of
glycogen or muscle tissue, for energy?
>
> In order to build lean muscle, a normal guy who is not fat needs to
eat
> a) to gain calories so that he can pump weights and get through his
heavy
> workout schedule.
> b) to eat to gain protein.
>
> Some foods have very little, or no protein but loaded with calories.
That
> kind of stuff you need to stay away from.

Bull****. As long as you ingest sufficient protein, the rest of your
caloric intake can be nearly anything you want.

>You need to shock your body with
> the amount of workout and the lack of calorie intake.

Bull****. No degree or type of "shock" is needed.
>
> Even though you avoid foods loaded with calories, you will still get
some
> amount of calories from other foods with very high proteins, but
that's
> okay.

Bull****. See above.
>
> First, you may feel tired, and fatigue even before you do any kind
of
> workout because of lack of calorie intake. Don't be alarmed
everything will
> roll into balance later on as you allow enough time for your body to
> abstract protein.

Define the nonsensical term "abstract protein".

> Calories are abstracted a lot faster than proteins from
> food you eat.

Lewis Carroll would be proud.
>
> Just because you work out to fatigue in gym so that your body
resorts to
> stored calories (also known as fat) in your body, you still won't
lose fat
> if you don't particularly work out that part of your body where the
fat is.
> If the fat is on your belly, you will not lose it by doing curls
24/7.

Yes. let's end the post with spot reducing. A fine closing idiocy.

Yeah, one or two little problems, Art. One or two...

David

Art S
July 20th 03, 06:50 PM
"David Cohen" > wrote in message
rthlink.net...
>
> "Art S" > wrote
> > "David Cohen" > wrote
>
> > > YES! Now we have a contest. David Eynon and Mr Atici will make
> Idiot
> > > of the Month voting more interesting. Well done.
> >
> > By and large, Ryan's statements seemed reasonable (although there
> are
> > one or two that bother me). Perhaps you could mention some of the
> ones
> > you don't accept, and he can explain?
>
> One or two? OK...
>
> "Ryan Atici" > wrote
> > It might sound contradictory to work out to lose fat and work out to
> build
> > lean muscle at first, but it actually isn't contradictory.
>
> Optimal workout for losing fat and optimal workout for muscle gain are
> different. "Building lean muscle" is a phrase of idiots. Define "lean
> muscle".
> >
> > Some think it is contradictory because in order to build lean
> muscle, you
> > need to eat, eat, eat,
>
> I assume this means extremely high calorie excess over maintenance
> ("eat, eat, eat"). That is incorrect.
>
> > and work out systematically by sticking to a heavy
> > workout schedule.
>
> A well-designed workout schedule does not need to be anything defined
> by "heavy workout schedule".
>
> > On the other hand, to lose fat, you need to stop eating
> > (actually, "stop eating" mentality is not correct. To be more
> precise, stop
> > eating food loaded with high calories)
>
> Bull****. To lose fat you need to create any degree of calorie deficit
> and combine it with a properly designed exercise routine.
>
> > and start working out until your body
> > runs out calories in your system to a degree that it resorts to
> stored
> > calories known as fat in your body.
>
> Explain this bull****. Define "runs out of calories". Why will
> whatever your definition is, cause lipolysis, rather than the use of
> glycogen or muscle tissue, for energy?
> >
> > In order to build lean muscle, a normal guy who is not fat needs to
> eat
> > a) to gain calories so that he can pump weights and get through his
> heavy
> > workout schedule.
> > b) to eat to gain protein.
> >
> > Some foods have very little, or no protein but loaded with calories.
> That
> > kind of stuff you need to stay away from.
>
> Bull****. As long as you ingest sufficient protein, the rest of your
> caloric intake can be nearly anything you want.
>
> >You need to shock your body with
> > the amount of workout and the lack of calorie intake.
>
> Bull****. No degree or type of "shock" is needed.
> >
> > Even though you avoid foods loaded with calories, you will still get
> some
> > amount of calories from other foods with very high proteins, but
> that's
> > okay.
>
> Bull****. See above.
> >
> > First, you may feel tired, and fatigue even before you do any kind
> of
> > workout because of lack of calorie intake. Don't be alarmed
> everything will
> > roll into balance later on as you allow enough time for your body to
> > abstract protein.
>
> Define the nonsensical term "abstract protein".
>
> > Calories are abstracted a lot faster than proteins from
> > food you eat.
>
> Lewis Carroll would be proud.
> >
> > Just because you work out to fatigue in gym so that your body
> resorts to
> > stored calories (also known as fat) in your body, you still won't
> lose fat
> > if you don't particularly work out that part of your body where the
> fat is.
> > If the fat is on your belly, you will not lose it by doing curls
> 24/7.
>
> Yes. let's end the post with spot reducing. A fine closing idiocy.
>
> Yeah, one or two little problems, Art. One or two...
>
> David
>
>

You are NOT being very encouraging.

Art

Art S
July 20th 03, 06:50 PM
"David Cohen" > wrote in message
rthlink.net...
>
> "Art S" > wrote
> > "David Cohen" > wrote
>
> > > YES! Now we have a contest. David Eynon and Mr Atici will make
> Idiot
> > > of the Month voting more interesting. Well done.
> >
> > By and large, Ryan's statements seemed reasonable (although there
> are
> > one or two that bother me). Perhaps you could mention some of the
> ones
> > you don't accept, and he can explain?
>
> One or two? OK...
>
> "Ryan Atici" > wrote
> > It might sound contradictory to work out to lose fat and work out to
> build
> > lean muscle at first, but it actually isn't contradictory.
>
> Optimal workout for losing fat and optimal workout for muscle gain are
> different. "Building lean muscle" is a phrase of idiots. Define "lean
> muscle".
> >
> > Some think it is contradictory because in order to build lean
> muscle, you
> > need to eat, eat, eat,
>
> I assume this means extremely high calorie excess over maintenance
> ("eat, eat, eat"). That is incorrect.
>
> > and work out systematically by sticking to a heavy
> > workout schedule.
>
> A well-designed workout schedule does not need to be anything defined
> by "heavy workout schedule".
>
> > On the other hand, to lose fat, you need to stop eating
> > (actually, "stop eating" mentality is not correct. To be more
> precise, stop
> > eating food loaded with high calories)
>
> Bull****. To lose fat you need to create any degree of calorie deficit
> and combine it with a properly designed exercise routine.
>
> > and start working out until your body
> > runs out calories in your system to a degree that it resorts to
> stored
> > calories known as fat in your body.
>
> Explain this bull****. Define "runs out of calories". Why will
> whatever your definition is, cause lipolysis, rather than the use of
> glycogen or muscle tissue, for energy?
> >
> > In order to build lean muscle, a normal guy who is not fat needs to
> eat
> > a) to gain calories so that he can pump weights and get through his
> heavy
> > workout schedule.
> > b) to eat to gain protein.
> >
> > Some foods have very little, or no protein but loaded with calories.
> That
> > kind of stuff you need to stay away from.
>
> Bull****. As long as you ingest sufficient protein, the rest of your
> caloric intake can be nearly anything you want.
>
> >You need to shock your body with
> > the amount of workout and the lack of calorie intake.
>
> Bull****. No degree or type of "shock" is needed.
> >
> > Even though you avoid foods loaded with calories, you will still get
> some
> > amount of calories from other foods with very high proteins, but
> that's
> > okay.
>
> Bull****. See above.
> >
> > First, you may feel tired, and fatigue even before you do any kind
> of
> > workout because of lack of calorie intake. Don't be alarmed
> everything will
> > roll into balance later on as you allow enough time for your body to
> > abstract protein.
>
> Define the nonsensical term "abstract protein".
>
> > Calories are abstracted a lot faster than proteins from
> > food you eat.
>
> Lewis Carroll would be proud.
> >
> > Just because you work out to fatigue in gym so that your body
> resorts to
> > stored calories (also known as fat) in your body, you still won't
> lose fat
> > if you don't particularly work out that part of your body where the
> fat is.
> > If the fat is on your belly, you will not lose it by doing curls
> 24/7.
>
> Yes. let's end the post with spot reducing. A fine closing idiocy.
>
> Yeah, one or two little problems, Art. One or two...
>
> David
>
>

You are NOT being very encouraging.

Art

Ryan Atici
July 21st 03, 04:47 AM
>Optimal workout for losing fat and optimal workout for muscle gain are
>different. "Building lean muscle" is a phrase of idiots.

Not at all... You don't know any better than repeating what you hear from
around like a parrot.

Either for losing fat or gaining muscle, workout schedule will help you
loose fat as you build muscle.

If you have a fat belly, of course the pack of abs won't stick out from
underneath all that fat. Just because you have fatty belly, that doesn't
mean doing 5 set of 25 reps of crunches every day six times a week will not
work out the muscle underneath as well as help you melt that fat. Doing
crunches works both ways. The sets of crunch reps should be done at the end
of your workout schedule.

Two untrained different bodies, one with fat, the other one without fat
shows the same kind of muscular reaction upon 5 sets of 25 reps of crunches.

The one with fat on his belly feels sourness next day on his abdominal
region just like the other person as a result of microdamage to muscles,
ligaments. Sourness indicates that you've really trained intensely that part
of muscle group. Such training not only works your muscle but also gives you
intense workout to shed the fat off.

>Define "lean muscle".

You need more help than expected.

>>Some think it is contradictory because in order to build lean muscle, you
>>need to eat, eat, eat,

>I assume this means extremely high calorie excess over maintenance
>("eat, eat, eat"). That is incorrect.

You're wrong. You have to eat to grow. You need to eat for maximum muscle
mass and minimum body fat. You need to control calorie intake through a good
diet while you eat food loaded with protein to build and maintain muscle
tissue. If you're simply working your ass out to failure without eating food
with protein, you're simply wasting your time in the gym.

The protein rating of whole "egg" is 100 percent.
The protein rating of "fish" is 70 percent.
The protein rating of "lean beef" is 69 percent.
The protein rating of "milk" is 60 percent.
The protein rating of "rice" is 56 percent.
The protein rating of "soybeans" is 47 percent.
The protein rating of "peanuts" is 43 percent.
The protein rating of "potato" is 34 percent.

Egg is good but it might worry some people who are concerned about high
cholesterol. In that case, eat garlic and avocado to reduce your cholesterol
level.

>>and work out systematically by sticking to a heavy
>>workout schedule.

>A well-designed workout schedule does not need to be anything defined
>by "heavy workout schedule".

Well designed workout schedule is considered a heavy workout schedule
because it imposes discipline, dedication, and absolute avoidance of goofing
or monkeying around.

It is heavy when compared to ordinary workout schedule one has been
following without any result in muscle growth.

Any well-designed workout schedule is a far from an ordinary workout
schedule, therefore, is considered "heavy workout schedule".

>> On the other hand, to lose fat, you need to stop eating
>>(actually, "stop eating" mentality is not correct. To be more
>>precise, stop eating food loaded with high calories)

>Bull****. To lose fat you need to create any degree of calorie deficit
>and combine it with a properly designed exercise routine.

Duh! You're repeating what I just said previously.

If not by stopping consuming food loaded with high calories, how are you
planning to create any degree of calorie deficit?

You already get some amount of calories from food loaded with proteins.
Staying away from food loaded with high calories and resorting to food with
protein will put fat people in degree of calorie deficit.

>Explain this bull****. Define "runs out of calories". Why will whatever
your definition is,
>cause lipolysis, rather than the use of glycogen or muscle tissue, for
energy?

It is burning more calories than your daily intake.

>Bull****. As long as you ingest sufficient protein, the rest of your
>caloric intake can be nearly anything you want.

It is clear that you don't understand that calorie and protein serve a
different purpose. The protein is needed to build and maintain muscle
tissue. You need enough calorie intake to keep up with your workout
schedule.

>>You need to shock your body with
>>the amount of workout and the lack of calorie intake.

>Bull****. No degree or type of "shock" is needed.

How are you planning to lose fat? By sitting on your ass and eating more?
You're totally misleading people. Other than "bull****", you have nothing to
say. That's the bull**** of your own in itself.

You need to impose the kind of workout on your body that it is not used to.
The main problem that many fat people experience is the strenuous workout
schedule, and the physical pressure such workout schedule imposes upon them.
When you're fat, it is not really easy to workout let alone stick to a "well
designed workout routine". They already have this disadvantage of being fat
when it comes to moving around let alone working out. You have to do
whatever you can in order to motivate them and to turn things to their
advantage. Limiting calorie intake to minimum is the extra help they need.

>> Even though you avoid foods loaded with calories, you will still get some
>> amount of calories from other foods with very high proteins, but that's
>> okay.

>Bull****. See above.

I recommend the same to you.

>Define the nonsensical term "abstract protein".

It is "TO abstract protein..."

"To abstract" is a verb. "Protein" is a noun, and both don't form a term.

The food you eat has to be digested first. The body abstracts (takes away;
removes) protein from food you eat. The rest is being disposed as a waste
matter.

>> Calories are abstracted a lot faster than proteins from
>> food you eat.

>Lewis Carroll would be proud.

I don't know about him, but you should be proud of yourself for learning a
bit more what you already know. ;-)

>> Just because you work out to fatigue in gym so that your body resorts
>>to stored calories (also known as fat) in your body, you still won't
>>lose fat if you don't particularly work out that part of your body
>>where the fat is. If the fat is on your belly, you will not lose it by
>>doing curls 24/7.

>Yes. let's end the post with spot reducing. A fine closing idiocy.

The spot is on you as you don't even understand simple facts.

>Yeah, one or two little problems, Art. One or two...

The only problem is your lack of knowledge to know any better.

Ryan Atici
July 21st 03, 04:47 AM
>Optimal workout for losing fat and optimal workout for muscle gain are
>different. "Building lean muscle" is a phrase of idiots.

Not at all... You don't know any better than repeating what you hear from
around like a parrot.

Either for losing fat or gaining muscle, workout schedule will help you
loose fat as you build muscle.

If you have a fat belly, of course the pack of abs won't stick out from
underneath all that fat. Just because you have fatty belly, that doesn't
mean doing 5 set of 25 reps of crunches every day six times a week will not
work out the muscle underneath as well as help you melt that fat. Doing
crunches works both ways. The sets of crunch reps should be done at the end
of your workout schedule.

Two untrained different bodies, one with fat, the other one without fat
shows the same kind of muscular reaction upon 5 sets of 25 reps of crunches.

The one with fat on his belly feels sourness next day on his abdominal
region just like the other person as a result of microdamage to muscles,
ligaments. Sourness indicates that you've really trained intensely that part
of muscle group. Such training not only works your muscle but also gives you
intense workout to shed the fat off.

>Define "lean muscle".

You need more help than expected.

>>Some think it is contradictory because in order to build lean muscle, you
>>need to eat, eat, eat,

>I assume this means extremely high calorie excess over maintenance
>("eat, eat, eat"). That is incorrect.

You're wrong. You have to eat to grow. You need to eat for maximum muscle
mass and minimum body fat. You need to control calorie intake through a good
diet while you eat food loaded with protein to build and maintain muscle
tissue. If you're simply working your ass out to failure without eating food
with protein, you're simply wasting your time in the gym.

The protein rating of whole "egg" is 100 percent.
The protein rating of "fish" is 70 percent.
The protein rating of "lean beef" is 69 percent.
The protein rating of "milk" is 60 percent.
The protein rating of "rice" is 56 percent.
The protein rating of "soybeans" is 47 percent.
The protein rating of "peanuts" is 43 percent.
The protein rating of "potato" is 34 percent.

Egg is good but it might worry some people who are concerned about high
cholesterol. In that case, eat garlic and avocado to reduce your cholesterol
level.

>>and work out systematically by sticking to a heavy
>>workout schedule.

>A well-designed workout schedule does not need to be anything defined
>by "heavy workout schedule".

Well designed workout schedule is considered a heavy workout schedule
because it imposes discipline, dedication, and absolute avoidance of goofing
or monkeying around.

It is heavy when compared to ordinary workout schedule one has been
following without any result in muscle growth.

Any well-designed workout schedule is a far from an ordinary workout
schedule, therefore, is considered "heavy workout schedule".

>> On the other hand, to lose fat, you need to stop eating
>>(actually, "stop eating" mentality is not correct. To be more
>>precise, stop eating food loaded with high calories)

>Bull****. To lose fat you need to create any degree of calorie deficit
>and combine it with a properly designed exercise routine.

Duh! You're repeating what I just said previously.

If not by stopping consuming food loaded with high calories, how are you
planning to create any degree of calorie deficit?

You already get some amount of calories from food loaded with proteins.
Staying away from food loaded with high calories and resorting to food with
protein will put fat people in degree of calorie deficit.

>Explain this bull****. Define "runs out of calories". Why will whatever
your definition is,
>cause lipolysis, rather than the use of glycogen or muscle tissue, for
energy?

It is burning more calories than your daily intake.

>Bull****. As long as you ingest sufficient protein, the rest of your
>caloric intake can be nearly anything you want.

It is clear that you don't understand that calorie and protein serve a
different purpose. The protein is needed to build and maintain muscle
tissue. You need enough calorie intake to keep up with your workout
schedule.

>>You need to shock your body with
>>the amount of workout and the lack of calorie intake.

>Bull****. No degree or type of "shock" is needed.

How are you planning to lose fat? By sitting on your ass and eating more?
You're totally misleading people. Other than "bull****", you have nothing to
say. That's the bull**** of your own in itself.

You need to impose the kind of workout on your body that it is not used to.
The main problem that many fat people experience is the strenuous workout
schedule, and the physical pressure such workout schedule imposes upon them.
When you're fat, it is not really easy to workout let alone stick to a "well
designed workout routine". They already have this disadvantage of being fat
when it comes to moving around let alone working out. You have to do
whatever you can in order to motivate them and to turn things to their
advantage. Limiting calorie intake to minimum is the extra help they need.

>> Even though you avoid foods loaded with calories, you will still get some
>> amount of calories from other foods with very high proteins, but that's
>> okay.

>Bull****. See above.

I recommend the same to you.

>Define the nonsensical term "abstract protein".

It is "TO abstract protein..."

"To abstract" is a verb. "Protein" is a noun, and both don't form a term.

The food you eat has to be digested first. The body abstracts (takes away;
removes) protein from food you eat. The rest is being disposed as a waste
matter.

>> Calories are abstracted a lot faster than proteins from
>> food you eat.

>Lewis Carroll would be proud.

I don't know about him, but you should be proud of yourself for learning a
bit more what you already know. ;-)

>> Just because you work out to fatigue in gym so that your body resorts
>>to stored calories (also known as fat) in your body, you still won't
>>lose fat if you don't particularly work out that part of your body
>>where the fat is. If the fat is on your belly, you will not lose it by
>>doing curls 24/7.

>Yes. let's end the post with spot reducing. A fine closing idiocy.

The spot is on you as you don't even understand simple facts.

>Yeah, one or two little problems, Art. One or two...

The only problem is your lack of knowledge to know any better.

Art S
July 21st 03, 08:48 AM
"Ryan Atici" > wrote in message
...
> >Optimal workout for losing fat and optimal workout for muscle gain are
> >different. "Building lean muscle" is a phrase of idiots.
>
> Not at all... You don't know any better than repeating what you hear from
> around like a parrot.
>
> Either for losing fat or gaining muscle, workout schedule will help you
> loose fat as you build muscle.
>
> If you have a fat belly, of course the pack of abs won't stick out from
> underneath all that fat. Just because you have fatty belly, that doesn't
> mean doing 5 set of 25 reps of crunches every day six times a week will not
> work out the muscle underneath as well as help you melt that fat. Doing
> crunches works both ways. The sets of crunch reps should be done at the end
> of your workout schedule.
>

Out of curiosity, why should they be done at the end?

> Two untrained different bodies, one with fat, the other one without fat
> shows the same kind of muscular reaction upon 5 sets of 25 reps of crunches.
>
> The one with fat on his belly feels sourness next day on his abdominal
> region just like the other person as a result of microdamage to muscles,
> ligaments. Sourness indicates that you've really trained intensely that part
> of muscle group. Such training not only works your muscle but also gives you
> intense workout to shed the fat off.
>

I haven't seen the term "sourness" used in this context before. Could you
explain what you mean? And maybe provide some alternate terms? Also,
you seem to be posting from Germany. You don't seem to be using a
translator. Is it possible that every once in a while you are choosing a word
that isn't the best one? If so, it may help to post the German word, and let
us use a translator to select the proper word for the context.

> >Define "lean muscle".
>
> You need more help than expected.
>
> >>Some think it is contradictory because in order to build lean muscle, you
> >>need to eat, eat, eat,
>
> >I assume this means extremely high calorie excess over maintenance
> >("eat, eat, eat"). That is incorrect.
>
> You're wrong. You have to eat to grow. You need to eat for maximum muscle
> mass and minimum body fat. You need to control calorie intake through a good
> diet while you eat food loaded with protein to build and maintain muscle
> tissue. If you're simply working your ass out to failure without eating food
> with protein, you're simply wasting your time in the gym.
>
> The protein rating of whole "egg" is 100 percent.
> The protein rating of "fish" is 70 percent.
> The protein rating of "lean beef" is 69 percent.
> The protein rating of "milk" is 60 percent.
> The protein rating of "rice" is 56 percent.
> The protein rating of "soybeans" is 47 percent.
> The protein rating of "peanuts" is 43 percent.
> The protein rating of "potato" is 34 percent.
>

What is a "protein rating"?

>
> >>and work out systematically by sticking to a heavy
> >>workout schedule.
>
> >A well-designed workout schedule does not need to be anything defined
> >by "heavy workout schedule".
>
> Well designed workout schedule is considered a heavy workout schedule
> because it imposes discipline, dedication, and absolute avoidance of goofing
> or monkeying around.
>
> It is heavy when compared to ordinary workout schedule one has been
> following without any result in muscle growth.
>
> Any well-designed workout schedule is a far from an ordinary workout
> schedule, therefore, is considered "heavy workout schedule".
>

Could you give an example of a "heavy workout schedule"? And an
"ordinary workout schedule"?

> >> On the other hand, to lose fat, you need to stop eating
> >>(actually, "stop eating" mentality is not correct. To be more
> >>precise, stop eating food loaded with high calories)
>
> >Bull****. To lose fat you need to create any degree of calorie deficit
> >and combine it with a properly designed exercise routine.
>
> Duh! You're repeating what I just said previously.
>
> If not by stopping consuming food loaded with high calories, how are you
> planning to create any degree of calorie deficit?
>
> You already get some amount of calories from food loaded with proteins.
> Staying away from food loaded with high calories and resorting to food with
> protein will put fat people in degree of calorie deficit.
>

Carbs and Protein have 4 calories per gram; fat has 9 calories per gram.
To me, this means that you are saying that fatty foods should be avoided.
Is this correct? Also, is it OK to eat all the carbs you want since you need
the calories to work out? And the same with protein?

> >Bull****. As long as you ingest sufficient protein, the rest of your
> >caloric intake can be nearly anything you want.
>
> It is clear that you don't understand that calorie and protein serve a
> different purpose. The protein is needed to build and maintain muscle
> tissue. You need enough calorie intake to keep up with your workout
> schedule.
>

If someone eats more protein than they need to build and/or maintain
muscle, what happens to the extra protein?

> >>You need to shock your body with
> >>the amount of workout and the lack of calorie intake.
>
> >Bull****. No degree or type of "shock" is needed.
>
> How are you planning to lose fat? By sitting on your ass and eating more?
> You're totally misleading people. Other than "bull****", you have nothing to
> say. That's the bull**** of your own in itself.
>

What is "shocking" the body with lack of calories? I've never heard the term
before.

> You need to impose the kind of workout on your body that it is not used to.
> The main problem that many fat people experience is the strenuous workout
> schedule, and the physical pressure such workout schedule imposes upon them.
> When you're fat, it is not really easy to workout let alone stick to a "well
> designed workout routine". They already have this disadvantage of being fat
> when it comes to moving around let alone working out. You have to do
> whatever you can in order to motivate them and to turn things to their
> advantage. Limiting calorie intake to minimum is the extra help they need.
>

Does this mean that you can't lose weight (fat) unless you do a strenuous
workout?


> >Define the nonsensical term "abstract protein".
>
> It is "TO abstract protein..."
>
> "To abstract" is a verb. "Protein" is a noun, and both don't form a term.
>
> The food you eat has to be digested first. The body abstracts (takes away;
> removes) protein from food you eat. The rest is being disposed as a waste
> matter.
>

As far as I know, food is composed of water, fat, protein, and/or
carbohydrates (shut up, Lyle). Are you saying that the body takes the
protein from the food and trashes the rest?


> >> Just because you work out to fatigue in gym so that your body resorts
> >>to stored calories (also known as fat) in your body, you still won't
> >>lose fat if you don't particularly work out that part of your body
> >>where the fat is. If the fat is on your belly, you will not lose it by
> >>doing curls 24/7.
>
> >Yes. let's end the post with spot reducing. A fine closing idiocy.
>
> The spot is on you as you don't even understand simple facts.
>

OK, if I'm happy with the way my legs and arms look but my stomach
is too big (fat), what do I need to do to get rid of the fat?

Thanks,

Art

Art S
July 21st 03, 08:48 AM
"Ryan Atici" > wrote in message
...
> >Optimal workout for losing fat and optimal workout for muscle gain are
> >different. "Building lean muscle" is a phrase of idiots.
>
> Not at all... You don't know any better than repeating what you hear from
> around like a parrot.
>
> Either for losing fat or gaining muscle, workout schedule will help you
> loose fat as you build muscle.
>
> If you have a fat belly, of course the pack of abs won't stick out from
> underneath all that fat. Just because you have fatty belly, that doesn't
> mean doing 5 set of 25 reps of crunches every day six times a week will not
> work out the muscle underneath as well as help you melt that fat. Doing
> crunches works both ways. The sets of crunch reps should be done at the end
> of your workout schedule.
>

Out of curiosity, why should they be done at the end?

> Two untrained different bodies, one with fat, the other one without fat
> shows the same kind of muscular reaction upon 5 sets of 25 reps of crunches.
>
> The one with fat on his belly feels sourness next day on his abdominal
> region just like the other person as a result of microdamage to muscles,
> ligaments. Sourness indicates that you've really trained intensely that part
> of muscle group. Such training not only works your muscle but also gives you
> intense workout to shed the fat off.
>

I haven't seen the term "sourness" used in this context before. Could you
explain what you mean? And maybe provide some alternate terms? Also,
you seem to be posting from Germany. You don't seem to be using a
translator. Is it possible that every once in a while you are choosing a word
that isn't the best one? If so, it may help to post the German word, and let
us use a translator to select the proper word for the context.

> >Define "lean muscle".
>
> You need more help than expected.
>
> >>Some think it is contradictory because in order to build lean muscle, you
> >>need to eat, eat, eat,
>
> >I assume this means extremely high calorie excess over maintenance
> >("eat, eat, eat"). That is incorrect.
>
> You're wrong. You have to eat to grow. You need to eat for maximum muscle
> mass and minimum body fat. You need to control calorie intake through a good
> diet while you eat food loaded with protein to build and maintain muscle
> tissue. If you're simply working your ass out to failure without eating food
> with protein, you're simply wasting your time in the gym.
>
> The protein rating of whole "egg" is 100 percent.
> The protein rating of "fish" is 70 percent.
> The protein rating of "lean beef" is 69 percent.
> The protein rating of "milk" is 60 percent.
> The protein rating of "rice" is 56 percent.
> The protein rating of "soybeans" is 47 percent.
> The protein rating of "peanuts" is 43 percent.
> The protein rating of "potato" is 34 percent.
>

What is a "protein rating"?

>
> >>and work out systematically by sticking to a heavy
> >>workout schedule.
>
> >A well-designed workout schedule does not need to be anything defined
> >by "heavy workout schedule".
>
> Well designed workout schedule is considered a heavy workout schedule
> because it imposes discipline, dedication, and absolute avoidance of goofing
> or monkeying around.
>
> It is heavy when compared to ordinary workout schedule one has been
> following without any result in muscle growth.
>
> Any well-designed workout schedule is a far from an ordinary workout
> schedule, therefore, is considered "heavy workout schedule".
>

Could you give an example of a "heavy workout schedule"? And an
"ordinary workout schedule"?

> >> On the other hand, to lose fat, you need to stop eating
> >>(actually, "stop eating" mentality is not correct. To be more
> >>precise, stop eating food loaded with high calories)
>
> >Bull****. To lose fat you need to create any degree of calorie deficit
> >and combine it with a properly designed exercise routine.
>
> Duh! You're repeating what I just said previously.
>
> If not by stopping consuming food loaded with high calories, how are you
> planning to create any degree of calorie deficit?
>
> You already get some amount of calories from food loaded with proteins.
> Staying away from food loaded with high calories and resorting to food with
> protein will put fat people in degree of calorie deficit.
>

Carbs and Protein have 4 calories per gram; fat has 9 calories per gram.
To me, this means that you are saying that fatty foods should be avoided.
Is this correct? Also, is it OK to eat all the carbs you want since you need
the calories to work out? And the same with protein?

> >Bull****. As long as you ingest sufficient protein, the rest of your
> >caloric intake can be nearly anything you want.
>
> It is clear that you don't understand that calorie and protein serve a
> different purpose. The protein is needed to build and maintain muscle
> tissue. You need enough calorie intake to keep up with your workout
> schedule.
>

If someone eats more protein than they need to build and/or maintain
muscle, what happens to the extra protein?

> >>You need to shock your body with
> >>the amount of workout and the lack of calorie intake.
>
> >Bull****. No degree or type of "shock" is needed.
>
> How are you planning to lose fat? By sitting on your ass and eating more?
> You're totally misleading people. Other than "bull****", you have nothing to
> say. That's the bull**** of your own in itself.
>

What is "shocking" the body with lack of calories? I've never heard the term
before.

> You need to impose the kind of workout on your body that it is not used to.
> The main problem that many fat people experience is the strenuous workout
> schedule, and the physical pressure such workout schedule imposes upon them.
> When you're fat, it is not really easy to workout let alone stick to a "well
> designed workout routine". They already have this disadvantage of being fat
> when it comes to moving around let alone working out. You have to do
> whatever you can in order to motivate them and to turn things to their
> advantage. Limiting calorie intake to minimum is the extra help they need.
>

Does this mean that you can't lose weight (fat) unless you do a strenuous
workout?


> >Define the nonsensical term "abstract protein".
>
> It is "TO abstract protein..."
>
> "To abstract" is a verb. "Protein" is a noun, and both don't form a term.
>
> The food you eat has to be digested first. The body abstracts (takes away;
> removes) protein from food you eat. The rest is being disposed as a waste
> matter.
>

As far as I know, food is composed of water, fat, protein, and/or
carbohydrates (shut up, Lyle). Are you saying that the body takes the
protein from the food and trashes the rest?


> >> Just because you work out to fatigue in gym so that your body resorts
> >>to stored calories (also known as fat) in your body, you still won't
> >>lose fat if you don't particularly work out that part of your body
> >>where the fat is. If the fat is on your belly, you will not lose it by
> >>doing curls 24/7.
>
> >Yes. let's end the post with spot reducing. A fine closing idiocy.
>
> The spot is on you as you don't even understand simple facts.
>

OK, if I'm happy with the way my legs and arms look but my stomach
is too big (fat), what do I need to do to get rid of the fat?

Thanks,

Art

xtrain13
July 21st 03, 03:43 PM
Art S wrote:
<snip>
> Out of curiosity, why should they be done at the end?

Because he read about that in Arnold's encycolopedia. You should
subscribe to asb and his other gems. :-)

>>Two untrained different bodies, one with fat, the other one without fat
>>shows the same kind of muscular reaction upon 5 sets of 25 reps of crunches.
>>
>>The one with fat on his belly feels sourness next day on his abdominal
>>region just like the other person as a result of microdamage to muscles,
>>ligaments. Sourness indicates that you've really trained intensely that part
>>of muscle group. Such training not only works your muscle but also gives you
>>intense workout to shed the fat off.
>
> I haven't seen the term "sourness" used in this context before. Could you
> explain what you mean? And maybe provide some alternate terms? Also,
> you seem to be posting from Germany. You don't seem to be using a
> translator. Is it possible that every once in a while you are choosing a word
> that isn't the best one? If so, it may help to post the German word, and let
> us use a translator to select the proper word for the context.

I think he's only using a German news server. He has a pretty strong
anti-American bias, so I think he may be a disillusioned immigrant.

>>You're wrong. You have to eat to grow. You need to eat for maximum muscle
>>mass and minimum body fat. You need to control calorie intake through a good
>>diet while you eat food loaded with protein to build and maintain muscle
>>tissue. If you're simply working your ass out to failure without eating food
>>with protein, you're simply wasting your time in the gym.
>>
>>The protein rating of whole "egg" is 100 percent.
>>The protein rating of "fish" is 70 percent.
>>The protein rating of "lean beef" is 69 percent.
>>The protein rating of "milk" is 60 percent.
>>The protein rating of "rice" is 56 percent.
>>The protein rating of "soybeans" is 47 percent.
>>The protein rating of "peanuts" is 43 percent.
>>The protein rating of "potato" is 34 percent.
>
> What is a "protein rating"?

It's a mystical value attributed to food. Nevermind that some
bodybuilders have done quite well with foods he rates with 60% (whatever
the hell that means) or less.

(www.andreascahling.com for example)

>>Well designed workout schedule is considered a heavy workout schedule
>>because it imposes discipline, dedication, and absolute avoidance of goofing
>>or monkeying around.

He started a thread on this one, Art. It's a hoot! He's opposed to
talking, spotting, and flirting (in no particular order) in the gym.

>>It is heavy when compared to ordinary workout schedule one has been
>>following without any result in muscle growth.
>>
>>Any well-designed workout schedule is a far from an ordinary workout
>>schedule, therefore, is considered "heavy workout schedule".
>
> Could you give an example of a "heavy workout schedule"? And an
> "ordinary workout schedule"?

He uses the schedules in Arnold's book. The rest are "ordinary."

>>If not by stopping consuming food loaded with high calories, how are you
>>planning to create any degree of calorie deficit?
>>
>>You already get some amount of calories from food loaded with proteins.
>>Staying away from food loaded with high calories and resorting to food with
>>protein will put fat people in degree of calorie deficit.
>
> Carbs and Protein have 4 calories per gram; fat has 9 calories per gram.
> To me, this means that you are saying that fatty foods should be avoided.
> Is this correct? Also, is it OK to eat all the carbs you want since you need
> the calories to work out? And the same with protein?

If a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, Atici is a ticking timebomb.

>>It is clear that you don't understand that calorie and protein serve a
>>different purpose. The protein is needed to build and maintain muscle
>>tissue. You need enough calorie intake to keep up with your workout
>>schedule.
>
> If someone eats more protein than they need to build and/or maintain
> muscle, what happens to the extra protein?

He's thumbing through his Arnold encyclopedia trying to find the answer.

<snip>
>>It is "TO abstract protein..."
>>
>>"To abstract" is a verb. "Protein" is a noun, and both don't form a term.
>>
>>The food you eat has to be digested first. The body abstracts (takes away;
>>removes) protein from food you eat. The rest is being disposed as a waste
>>matter.
>
> As far as I know, food is composed of water, fat, protein, and/or
> carbohydrates (shut up, Lyle). Are you saying that the body takes the
> protein from the food and trashes the rest?

HIS body does, the rest of ours don't. At least as far as he's concerned.

<snip>
>>The spot is on you as you don't even understand simple facts.
>
> OK, if I'm happy with the way my legs and arms look but my stomach
> is too big (fat), what do I need to do to get rid of the fat?

He'll probably tell you that you need to stop socializing so much in the
gym, and that you're a homo for getting a spot because all that means is
you need to impress another guy. Not sure if he got that from his Arnold
book or if he's making it up as he goes along. Actually, I *do* know
(and so do you).

xtrain13
July 21st 03, 03:43 PM
Art S wrote:
<snip>
> Out of curiosity, why should they be done at the end?

Because he read about that in Arnold's encycolopedia. You should
subscribe to asb and his other gems. :-)

>>Two untrained different bodies, one with fat, the other one without fat
>>shows the same kind of muscular reaction upon 5 sets of 25 reps of crunches.
>>
>>The one with fat on his belly feels sourness next day on his abdominal
>>region just like the other person as a result of microdamage to muscles,
>>ligaments. Sourness indicates that you've really trained intensely that part
>>of muscle group. Such training not only works your muscle but also gives you
>>intense workout to shed the fat off.
>
> I haven't seen the term "sourness" used in this context before. Could you
> explain what you mean? And maybe provide some alternate terms? Also,
> you seem to be posting from Germany. You don't seem to be using a
> translator. Is it possible that every once in a while you are choosing a word
> that isn't the best one? If so, it may help to post the German word, and let
> us use a translator to select the proper word for the context.

I think he's only using a German news server. He has a pretty strong
anti-American bias, so I think he may be a disillusioned immigrant.

>>You're wrong. You have to eat to grow. You need to eat for maximum muscle
>>mass and minimum body fat. You need to control calorie intake through a good
>>diet while you eat food loaded with protein to build and maintain muscle
>>tissue. If you're simply working your ass out to failure without eating food
>>with protein, you're simply wasting your time in the gym.
>>
>>The protein rating of whole "egg" is 100 percent.
>>The protein rating of "fish" is 70 percent.
>>The protein rating of "lean beef" is 69 percent.
>>The protein rating of "milk" is 60 percent.
>>The protein rating of "rice" is 56 percent.
>>The protein rating of "soybeans" is 47 percent.
>>The protein rating of "peanuts" is 43 percent.
>>The protein rating of "potato" is 34 percent.
>
> What is a "protein rating"?

It's a mystical value attributed to food. Nevermind that some
bodybuilders have done quite well with foods he rates with 60% (whatever
the hell that means) or less.

(www.andreascahling.com for example)

>>Well designed workout schedule is considered a heavy workout schedule
>>because it imposes discipline, dedication, and absolute avoidance of goofing
>>or monkeying around.

He started a thread on this one, Art. It's a hoot! He's opposed to
talking, spotting, and flirting (in no particular order) in the gym.

>>It is heavy when compared to ordinary workout schedule one has been
>>following without any result in muscle growth.
>>
>>Any well-designed workout schedule is a far from an ordinary workout
>>schedule, therefore, is considered "heavy workout schedule".
>
> Could you give an example of a "heavy workout schedule"? And an
> "ordinary workout schedule"?

He uses the schedules in Arnold's book. The rest are "ordinary."

>>If not by stopping consuming food loaded with high calories, how are you
>>planning to create any degree of calorie deficit?
>>
>>You already get some amount of calories from food loaded with proteins.
>>Staying away from food loaded with high calories and resorting to food with
>>protein will put fat people in degree of calorie deficit.
>
> Carbs and Protein have 4 calories per gram; fat has 9 calories per gram.
> To me, this means that you are saying that fatty foods should be avoided.
> Is this correct? Also, is it OK to eat all the carbs you want since you need
> the calories to work out? And the same with protein?

If a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, Atici is a ticking timebomb.

>>It is clear that you don't understand that calorie and protein serve a
>>different purpose. The protein is needed to build and maintain muscle
>>tissue. You need enough calorie intake to keep up with your workout
>>schedule.
>
> If someone eats more protein than they need to build and/or maintain
> muscle, what happens to the extra protein?

He's thumbing through his Arnold encyclopedia trying to find the answer.

<snip>
>>It is "TO abstract protein..."
>>
>>"To abstract" is a verb. "Protein" is a noun, and both don't form a term.
>>
>>The food you eat has to be digested first. The body abstracts (takes away;
>>removes) protein from food you eat. The rest is being disposed as a waste
>>matter.
>
> As far as I know, food is composed of water, fat, protein, and/or
> carbohydrates (shut up, Lyle). Are you saying that the body takes the
> protein from the food and trashes the rest?

HIS body does, the rest of ours don't. At least as far as he's concerned.

<snip>
>>The spot is on you as you don't even understand simple facts.
>
> OK, if I'm happy with the way my legs and arms look but my stomach
> is too big (fat), what do I need to do to get rid of the fat?

He'll probably tell you that you need to stop socializing so much in the
gym, and that you're a homo for getting a spot because all that means is
you need to impress another guy. Not sure if he got that from his Arnold
book or if he's making it up as he goes along. Actually, I *do* know
(and so do you).

Ryan Atici
July 21st 03, 05:26 PM
>Art, I don't care if you ask with a "pretty please",
>further response

Don't flatter yourself!

>to this idiot is a waste of my time.

It is not like you're investing time to cure cancer.

>Feel free to refer him to websites and books where he can display
intellectual honesty >by learning why he's an idiot and then admitting it,

Losing fat is not as easy as reading books. If reading helped losing weight,
then we wouldn't have any problem with people being fat and not being able
to find practical and truthful answers to their problems. Would we?

Nowadays, publishing books is more about making money than proving help and
real answers to those who need solutions and answers for their weight
problems. People who have suffered of weight problems and at the end,
accomplished results for desired body shape have more credibility than some
books written by people like Oprah Winfrey. ;-)

>or let him be an idiot. Your choice.

Nobody can challenge your idiocy. ;-)

>I'm gonna' go abstract some protein now, with a nice Cabernet, I think.

Crack two eggs in glass of milk and put some honey, and mix it to your
pleasure. ;-)

Ryan Atici
July 21st 03, 05:26 PM
>Art, I don't care if you ask with a "pretty please",
>further response

Don't flatter yourself!

>to this idiot is a waste of my time.

It is not like you're investing time to cure cancer.

>Feel free to refer him to websites and books where he can display
intellectual honesty >by learning why he's an idiot and then admitting it,

Losing fat is not as easy as reading books. If reading helped losing weight,
then we wouldn't have any problem with people being fat and not being able
to find practical and truthful answers to their problems. Would we?

Nowadays, publishing books is more about making money than proving help and
real answers to those who need solutions and answers for their weight
problems. People who have suffered of weight problems and at the end,
accomplished results for desired body shape have more credibility than some
books written by people like Oprah Winfrey. ;-)

>or let him be an idiot. Your choice.

Nobody can challenge your idiocy. ;-)

>I'm gonna' go abstract some protein now, with a nice Cabernet, I think.

Crack two eggs in glass of milk and put some honey, and mix it to your
pleasure. ;-)

Public Service Announcement
July 21st 03, 10:15 PM
Apparently losing fat and gaining muscle "at the same time" is entirely possible:

http://www.testosterone.net/nation_articles/270imp.jsp

In this instance, prohormones and a zig-zag approach probably helped.

PSA


"FA" > wrote in message . rogers.com>...
> I've been trying to loose fat and build muscle at the same time. Since may,
> I've lost 20 pounds of weight from once a week of 30min runs, weights, and a
> descent diet (eating less and healthy, but not too restrctive). I'm just
> wondering though if the dieting could be hampering my muscle building
> efforst. I don't wanna get too big, but also don't want my weight lifting
> efforst to go to waste.
>
> Some ppl have said its better just to train with weights, and loose weight
> later and not to do the same if the aim is to buildl muscle.
>
> Thanks

Public Service Announcement
July 21st 03, 10:15 PM
Apparently losing fat and gaining muscle "at the same time" is entirely possible:

http://www.testosterone.net/nation_articles/270imp.jsp

In this instance, prohormones and a zig-zag approach probably helped.

PSA


"FA" > wrote in message . rogers.com>...
> I've been trying to loose fat and build muscle at the same time. Since may,
> I've lost 20 pounds of weight from once a week of 30min runs, weights, and a
> descent diet (eating less and healthy, but not too restrctive). I'm just
> wondering though if the dieting could be hampering my muscle building
> efforst. I don't wanna get too big, but also don't want my weight lifting
> efforst to go to waste.
>
> Some ppl have said its better just to train with weights, and loose weight
> later and not to do the same if the aim is to buildl muscle.
>
> Thanks

Lyle McDonald
July 21st 03, 10:37 PM
Public Service Announcement wrote:
>
> Apparently losing fat and gaining muscle "at the same time" is entirely possible:
>
> http://www.testosterone.net/nation_articles/270imp.jsp
>
> In this instance, prohormones and a zig-zag approach probably helped.

Maybe you should actually read it. It says quite specifically:

"From reading your essay on the T-forum, I understand you alternated
between mass phases and fat loss phases, and had a total of six planned
stages. It's a little too long and detailed to get into here (those
interested can check out your essay on the T-forum) but go ahead and
tell us a few of the things you did training-wise."

he simply alternated between mass and cut cycles every couple-few weeks.

Lyle


> PSA
>
> "FA" > wrote in message . rogers.com>...
> > I've been trying to loose fat and build muscle at the same time. Since may,
> > I've lost 20 pounds of weight from once a week of 30min runs, weights, and a
> > descent diet (eating less and healthy, but not too restrctive). I'm just
> > wondering though if the dieting could be hampering my muscle building
> > efforst. I don't wanna get too big, but also don't want my weight lifting
> > efforst to go to waste.
> >
> > Some ppl have said its better just to train with weights, and loose weight
> > later and not to do the same if the aim is to buildl muscle.
> >
> > Thanks

Lyle McDonald
July 21st 03, 10:37 PM
Public Service Announcement wrote:
>
> Apparently losing fat and gaining muscle "at the same time" is entirely possible:
>
> http://www.testosterone.net/nation_articles/270imp.jsp
>
> In this instance, prohormones and a zig-zag approach probably helped.

Maybe you should actually read it. It says quite specifically:

"From reading your essay on the T-forum, I understand you alternated
between mass phases and fat loss phases, and had a total of six planned
stages. It's a little too long and detailed to get into here (those
interested can check out your essay on the T-forum) but go ahead and
tell us a few of the things you did training-wise."

he simply alternated between mass and cut cycles every couple-few weeks.

Lyle


> PSA
>
> "FA" > wrote in message . rogers.com>...
> > I've been trying to loose fat and build muscle at the same time. Since may,
> > I've lost 20 pounds of weight from once a week of 30min runs, weights, and a
> > descent diet (eating less and healthy, but not too restrctive). I'm just
> > wondering though if the dieting could be hampering my muscle building
> > efforst. I don't wanna get too big, but also don't want my weight lifting
> > efforst to go to waste.
> >
> > Some ppl have said its better just to train with weights, and loose weight
> > later and not to do the same if the aim is to buildl muscle.
> >
> > Thanks

Public Service Announcement
July 22nd 03, 04:52 AM
And hence the quotation marks on "at the same time", reinforced with
"zig-zag" approach. Apparently you speed read worse than me.

PSA

Lyle McDonald > wrote in message
>...
> Public Service Announcement wrote:
> >
> > Apparently losing fat and gaining muscle "at the same time" is entirely possible:
> >
> > http://www.testosterone.net/nation_articles/270imp.jsp
> >
> > In this instance, prohormones and a zig-zag approach probably helped.
>
> Maybe you should actually read it. It says quite specifically:
>
> "From reading your essay on the T-forum, I understand you alternated
> between mass phases and fat loss phases, and had a total of six planned
> stages. It's a little too long and detailed to get into here (those
> interested can check out your essay on the T-forum) but go ahead and
> tell us a few of the things you did training-wise."
>
> he simply alternated between mass and cut cycles every couple-few weeks.
>
> Lyle
>
>
> > PSA
> >
> > "FA" > wrote in message . rogers.com>...
> > > I've been trying to loose fat and build muscle at the same time. Since may,
> > > I've lost 20 pounds of weight from once a week of 30min runs, weights, and a
> > > descent diet (eating less and healthy, but not too restrctive). I'm just
> > > wondering though if the dieting could be hampering my muscle building
> > > efforst. I don't wanna get too big, but also don't want my weight lifting
> > > efforst to go to waste.
> > >
> > > Some ppl have said its better just to train with weights, and loose weight
> > > later and not to do the same if the aim is to buildl muscle.
> > >
> > > Thanks

Public Service Announcement
July 22nd 03, 04:52 AM
And hence the quotation marks on "at the same time", reinforced with
"zig-zag" approach. Apparently you speed read worse than me.

PSA

Lyle McDonald > wrote in message
>...
> Public Service Announcement wrote:
> >
> > Apparently losing fat and gaining muscle "at the same time" is entirely possible:
> >
> > http://www.testosterone.net/nation_articles/270imp.jsp
> >
> > In this instance, prohormones and a zig-zag approach probably helped.
>
> Maybe you should actually read it. It says quite specifically:
>
> "From reading your essay on the T-forum, I understand you alternated
> between mass phases and fat loss phases, and had a total of six planned
> stages. It's a little too long and detailed to get into here (those
> interested can check out your essay on the T-forum) but go ahead and
> tell us a few of the things you did training-wise."
>
> he simply alternated between mass and cut cycles every couple-few weeks.
>
> Lyle
>
>
> > PSA
> >
> > "FA" > wrote in message . rogers.com>...
> > > I've been trying to loose fat and build muscle at the same time. Since may,
> > > I've lost 20 pounds of weight from once a week of 30min runs, weights, and a
> > > descent diet (eating less and healthy, but not too restrctive). I'm just
> > > wondering though if the dieting could be hampering my muscle building
> > > efforst. I don't wanna get too big, but also don't want my weight lifting
> > > efforst to go to waste.
> > >
> > > Some ppl have said its better just to train with weights, and loose weight
> > > later and not to do the same if the aim is to buildl muscle.
> > >
> > > Thanks

Ryan Atici
July 23rd 03, 11:20 AM
>Out of curiosity, why should they be done at the end?

Muscles will get bigger when they are subjected to pressure. You can't
develop bigger and stronger muscles unless you force them. It is the level
of resistance that matters. There's a natural reaction and resistance in
muscle when worked out to failure. After you get to that level of fatigue,
you will get more results out of your crunches.

If not most, some people do crunches very fast. When crunches are performed
fast, you avoid putting ultimate pressure on the muscle group on the area by
simply using momentum to your advantage. When you're tired to exhaustion at
the end of your workout, throw in a few sets of crunches.

>I haven't seen the term "sourness" used in this context before. Could you
>explain what you mean?

One of the posters previously stated that it wasn't possible to work out to
lose fat and to build muscle at the same time.

I was just saying that even though you're fat and have muscles buried
underneath all that fat, all the fat above doesn't prevent you from working
out your muscles underneath. The sourness is the proof that you're working
your muscles out even though you have layers of fat above. As you're working
your muscles out, you're shedding layer of fat slowly but surely.

>And maybe provide some alternate terms? Also,
>you seem to be posting from Germany. You don't
>seem to be using a translator. Is it possible that every
>once in a while you are choosing a word that isn't the
>best one? If so, it may help to post the German word,
>and let us use a translator to select the proper word
>for the context.

Actually, there is no mistake in the term or with the choice of word. Before
talking about sourness, I indicated that two different bodies, one with, the
other one without fat show the same kinds of muscular reaction, and sourness
indicates that you've really given your muscles an intensive workout.

The layer of fat doesn't prevent you from working out your muscles. If you
can work out the muscle underneath the layer of fat, the layer of fat above
will also get hell of a workout.

By the way, I am an American. I just use German newsgroup server.

>What is a "protein rating"?

I don't mean to make you go, "duh!" but it is the percentage of protein in
the food. I thought the original poster would wanna get a table of foods
with protein ratings.

>Could you give an example of a "heavy workout schedule"? And an
>"ordinary workout schedule"?

Heavy workout schedule consists of sets of reps with minimum pause and
gradual weight increase in between reps. Once you get your heart pounding
like crazy, you keep it pounding like crazy till the end of your workout.

Through the first a few sets of reps, I don't pause at all. Then after each
set of reps, I pause only 5 seconds for the first part of the 15 minute long
workout. During the second part of the 15 minute workout, I only pause 10
seconds in between each set of reps. I get so exhausted I can barely raise a
cup of water without my hand shaking uncontrollably.

The ordinary workout routine lacks all of the above.

>Carbs and Protein have 4 calories per gram; fat has 9 calories per gram.
>To me, this means that you are saying that fatty foods should be avoided.
>Is this correct? Also, is it OK to eat all the carbs you want since you
need
>the calories to work out? And the same with protein?

No body has zero fat. Most of the pro bodybuilders have 12 percent body fat.
Is it possible to go lower than 12 percent of body fat? Yes, it is possible.
Is it worth it? No... You don't wanna turn your life into hell by being
obsessive about what you eat. Everything is good within reason.

Having said that, if you're already fat, you'd better cut down on fatty food
as much as you can...

If you want to make your muscles bigger you need to give them appropriate
stress and carbohydrates for fuel. As I indicated before, you need to
balance the calorie intake. You don't wanna take a lot more calories than
you can burn.

The same thing applies to protein. You only have to eat, eat and eat to
maintain a certain level of protein intake. The daily protein intake that a
bodybuilder needs to take depends on his weight. Approximately 0.8 grams per
pound bodyweight for a person, who is trying to build muscles, is
recommended.

If you're 170 pounds, you should consume 136 grams of protein per day at the
most. You would have enough protein with only 77 to 115 grams of protein a
day.

Your consumption of protein should also be spread evenly during the day
because the human body can't absorb so much of protein at the same time.
That's the real mentality behind "eat, eat, eat". Eat a little each time but
keep eating until you obtain reasonable protein intake.

>If someone eats more protein than they need to build and/or maintain
>muscle, what happens to the extra protein?

As I said above, the human body can't absorb all the protein at once.

Let's say you spread protein consumption evenly during the day, and absorb
extra protein. The extra protein can become a stressful stimulus for the
kidney. Excess also increases urinary calcium excretion, which leads to loss
of calcium through urine and could lead to osteoporosis.

>What is "shocking" the body with lack of calories? I've never heard the
term
>before.

It is not a term. It is something I prefer to use for better emphasis.

Most people with weight problem eat indiscriminately. Not all but most
people with weight problem eat junk food with high calories. On daily basis,
they subject their bodies to calorie-overload. Once you change that habit,
and stop that calorie intake. You simply shock the body.

>Does this mean that you can't lose weight (fat) unless you do a strenuous
>workout?

Well, it depends what part of fat you're referring to. Let's say a person
who has never ever worked out in his life weighs 350 pounds. With
mumbo-jumbo moves done daily, he can only lose a certain amount of fat.
Losing the first 50 pounds or so would be easy and possible without any
strenuous workout, but after that, mumbo-jumbo moves will not be enough to
help him lose any more weight. He needs to go a few notches higher on the
intensity of the workout. At this point, we're just talking about losing
weight, not bodybuilding. If an obese person wants to come to a point to
build his body, of course he needs a strenuous workout schedule.

If you're just fat, you can lose fat and build your body at the same time by
working out. But if you're obese, of course it is not possible to lose fat
and build body at the same time. An obese person has to lose enough weight
just to come to the point of being fat so that he can execute properly each
and every set of reps. An obese person can't even execute 1 rep of crunch.

>As far as I know, food is composed of water, fat, protein, and/or
>carbohydrates (shut up, Lyle). Are you saying that the body takes the
>protein from the food and trashes the rest?

I didn't say that. I was particularly referring to proteins. If you
remembered what I said earlier, you wouldn't need to ask me this question. I
said that even foods with high proteins have certain amount of calories, and
that the body would absorb some amount of calories from foods loaded with
proteins. That previous statement should have given you clue about
absorption of other compounds.

>OK, if I'm happy with the way my legs and arms look but my stomach
>is too big (fat), what do I need to do to get rid of the fat?

I strongly recommend that you don't consume alcohol. If you're trying to get
rid of the layer of fat on your stomach, the alcohol is your enemy. Follow a
good diet regimen that works for you. Every body is different, and responds
different to different food. What kind of diet you need to follow depends on
your metabolism.

Execute variety of different sets of Hip Raise, Kneeling Crunch, Seated
Crunch, Crunch, Hanging Hip Raise, Incline Hip Raise, Jack-knife Sit-up,
Vertical Hip Raise, Incline Twisting Sit-up, Incline Twisting Crunch, Side
Bend, Twist, Seated Leg Tucks, Flat Bench Leg Raise.

Ryan Atici
July 23rd 03, 11:20 AM
>Out of curiosity, why should they be done at the end?

Muscles will get bigger when they are subjected to pressure. You can't
develop bigger and stronger muscles unless you force them. It is the level
of resistance that matters. There's a natural reaction and resistance in
muscle when worked out to failure. After you get to that level of fatigue,
you will get more results out of your crunches.

If not most, some people do crunches very fast. When crunches are performed
fast, you avoid putting ultimate pressure on the muscle group on the area by
simply using momentum to your advantage. When you're tired to exhaustion at
the end of your workout, throw in a few sets of crunches.

>I haven't seen the term "sourness" used in this context before. Could you
>explain what you mean?

One of the posters previously stated that it wasn't possible to work out to
lose fat and to build muscle at the same time.

I was just saying that even though you're fat and have muscles buried
underneath all that fat, all the fat above doesn't prevent you from working
out your muscles underneath. The sourness is the proof that you're working
your muscles out even though you have layers of fat above. As you're working
your muscles out, you're shedding layer of fat slowly but surely.

>And maybe provide some alternate terms? Also,
>you seem to be posting from Germany. You don't
>seem to be using a translator. Is it possible that every
>once in a while you are choosing a word that isn't the
>best one? If so, it may help to post the German word,
>and let us use a translator to select the proper word
>for the context.

Actually, there is no mistake in the term or with the choice of word. Before
talking about sourness, I indicated that two different bodies, one with, the
other one without fat show the same kinds of muscular reaction, and sourness
indicates that you've really given your muscles an intensive workout.

The layer of fat doesn't prevent you from working out your muscles. If you
can work out the muscle underneath the layer of fat, the layer of fat above
will also get hell of a workout.

By the way, I am an American. I just use German newsgroup server.

>What is a "protein rating"?

I don't mean to make you go, "duh!" but it is the percentage of protein in
the food. I thought the original poster would wanna get a table of foods
with protein ratings.

>Could you give an example of a "heavy workout schedule"? And an
>"ordinary workout schedule"?

Heavy workout schedule consists of sets of reps with minimum pause and
gradual weight increase in between reps. Once you get your heart pounding
like crazy, you keep it pounding like crazy till the end of your workout.

Through the first a few sets of reps, I don't pause at all. Then after each
set of reps, I pause only 5 seconds for the first part of the 15 minute long
workout. During the second part of the 15 minute workout, I only pause 10
seconds in between each set of reps. I get so exhausted I can barely raise a
cup of water without my hand shaking uncontrollably.

The ordinary workout routine lacks all of the above.

>Carbs and Protein have 4 calories per gram; fat has 9 calories per gram.
>To me, this means that you are saying that fatty foods should be avoided.
>Is this correct? Also, is it OK to eat all the carbs you want since you
need
>the calories to work out? And the same with protein?

No body has zero fat. Most of the pro bodybuilders have 12 percent body fat.
Is it possible to go lower than 12 percent of body fat? Yes, it is possible.
Is it worth it? No... You don't wanna turn your life into hell by being
obsessive about what you eat. Everything is good within reason.

Having said that, if you're already fat, you'd better cut down on fatty food
as much as you can...

If you want to make your muscles bigger you need to give them appropriate
stress and carbohydrates for fuel. As I indicated before, you need to
balance the calorie intake. You don't wanna take a lot more calories than
you can burn.

The same thing applies to protein. You only have to eat, eat and eat to
maintain a certain level of protein intake. The daily protein intake that a
bodybuilder needs to take depends on his weight. Approximately 0.8 grams per
pound bodyweight for a person, who is trying to build muscles, is
recommended.

If you're 170 pounds, you should consume 136 grams of protein per day at the
most. You would have enough protein with only 77 to 115 grams of protein a
day.

Your consumption of protein should also be spread evenly during the day
because the human body can't absorb so much of protein at the same time.
That's the real mentality behind "eat, eat, eat". Eat a little each time but
keep eating until you obtain reasonable protein intake.

>If someone eats more protein than they need to build and/or maintain
>muscle, what happens to the extra protein?

As I said above, the human body can't absorb all the protein at once.

Let's say you spread protein consumption evenly during the day, and absorb
extra protein. The extra protein can become a stressful stimulus for the
kidney. Excess also increases urinary calcium excretion, which leads to loss
of calcium through urine and could lead to osteoporosis.

>What is "shocking" the body with lack of calories? I've never heard the
term
>before.

It is not a term. It is something I prefer to use for better emphasis.

Most people with weight problem eat indiscriminately. Not all but most
people with weight problem eat junk food with high calories. On daily basis,
they subject their bodies to calorie-overload. Once you change that habit,
and stop that calorie intake. You simply shock the body.

>Does this mean that you can't lose weight (fat) unless you do a strenuous
>workout?

Well, it depends what part of fat you're referring to. Let's say a person
who has never ever worked out in his life weighs 350 pounds. With
mumbo-jumbo moves done daily, he can only lose a certain amount of fat.
Losing the first 50 pounds or so would be easy and possible without any
strenuous workout, but after that, mumbo-jumbo moves will not be enough to
help him lose any more weight. He needs to go a few notches higher on the
intensity of the workout. At this point, we're just talking about losing
weight, not bodybuilding. If an obese person wants to come to a point to
build his body, of course he needs a strenuous workout schedule.

If you're just fat, you can lose fat and build your body at the same time by
working out. But if you're obese, of course it is not possible to lose fat
and build body at the same time. An obese person has to lose enough weight
just to come to the point of being fat so that he can execute properly each
and every set of reps. An obese person can't even execute 1 rep of crunch.

>As far as I know, food is composed of water, fat, protein, and/or
>carbohydrates (shut up, Lyle). Are you saying that the body takes the
>protein from the food and trashes the rest?

I didn't say that. I was particularly referring to proteins. If you
remembered what I said earlier, you wouldn't need to ask me this question. I
said that even foods with high proteins have certain amount of calories, and
that the body would absorb some amount of calories from foods loaded with
proteins. That previous statement should have given you clue about
absorption of other compounds.

>OK, if I'm happy with the way my legs and arms look but my stomach
>is too big (fat), what do I need to do to get rid of the fat?

I strongly recommend that you don't consume alcohol. If you're trying to get
rid of the layer of fat on your stomach, the alcohol is your enemy. Follow a
good diet regimen that works for you. Every body is different, and responds
different to different food. What kind of diet you need to follow depends on
your metabolism.

Execute variety of different sets of Hip Raise, Kneeling Crunch, Seated
Crunch, Crunch, Hanging Hip Raise, Incline Hip Raise, Jack-knife Sit-up,
Vertical Hip Raise, Incline Twisting Sit-up, Incline Twisting Crunch, Side
Bend, Twist, Seated Leg Tucks, Flat Bench Leg Raise.

Ryan Atici
July 23rd 03, 11:52 AM
>Because he read about that in Arnold's encycolopedia.

You're talking out of your ass again. He doesn't mention anything about
executing crunches at the end of your workout routine.

>You should subscribe to asb and his other gems. :-)

As always, your mouth does more workout than any part of your body.

>I think he's only using a German news server. He has a pretty strong
>anti-American bias.

Actually by simply depending on your own personal judgment, you're being
bias by putting yourself in charge to decide what is anti-American bias,
what is not.

You simply consider anything, that doesn't fit your way of thinking,
anti-American. It is a personal flaw in your own thinking, I should say.
Nobody should cater to your thinking and the way you perceive how Americans
ought to think. We're individuals in this country as we have rights to think
as individuals. Your own thought against another citizen is not a proof of
anti-Americanism. It is a desperate attempt to cheer people along with you
on your side.

You're very narrow-minded to think that every American should look through
the narrow window of yours to be considered as a good American.

Labeling a person is an old and ineffective trick to gain support of others.

>> What is a "protein rating"?

>It's a mystical value attributed to food.

You don't believe in science as well.

>Nevermind that some bodybuilders have done quite well with
>foods he rates with 60% (whatever the hell that means) or less.
>(www.andreascahling.com for example)

If you think the protein ratings are simply mystical, why do you even bother
arguing that some bodybuilders have done well or bad with only 60 percent of
protein intake?

What percentage some bodybuilders have done quite well with depends on their
genetics.

Nobody says that one has to consume egg 24/7 just because it has 100 percent
protein. The table provided before lists different source of food
recommended as a guidance in order to gain protein intake.

>>Well designed workout schedule is considered a heavy workout schedule
>>because it imposes discipline, dedication, and absolute avoidance of
goofing
>>or monkeying around.

>He started a thread on this one, Art. It's a hoot!

It's a hoot for a goofball like you.

>He's opposed to talking, spotting, and flirting (in no particular order) in
the gym.

You're taking things out of context.

Rather than working out, you simply use gyms for socializing and flirting.
To you, the gym is like a night club. I am against such mentality and the
attitude of those who use gyms as a perfect place to meet new people.

Let me repeat what I said again.

In particular, if one is committed to and serious about working out, such
seriousness brings discipline and attitude of seriousness and pure
concentration where others with less commitment and less seriousness and
concentration may walk in and start a conversation with you.

It makes you uncomfortable to be put in a situation where you have to brush
off the person either with facial expressions or short answers so that the
person (he or she) gets the message that you're not into holding a
conversation.

It makes you more uncomfortable when you have to go through this every 10 or
15 minutes with another person.

What is more interruptive and annoying is when somebody comes to you and
asks you to spot him. You don't wanna be mean to him, and therefore don't
wanna turn him down, but you don't wanna be interrupted either. People
should be more considerate not to put you in this position.

I understand that socializing is a big problem in the US as people are very
busy with work, school or other things to find enough time to socialize as
much as they want to. Believe it or not, I am speaking from a personal
experience because I've seen it happen all the time that less committed and
less serious people come to gyms thinking it is a perfect place for
socializing, and meeting new people. This is not a place to meet new people.
It is a wrong concept, and a distorted priority to come to a gym just to
meet new people. If you still disagree with this and ignore to see my point,
I have nothing else to say to a brick like you.

Instead of working out in the gym, you like to spend time talking, posing
and flirting. You defend yourself on the subject saying, "That doesn't stop
me from smiling at others, responding to them when asked questions, or
occasionally asking a young lady if she'd like to go grab a bite after we
finish working out"

You're also an opportunist and a women-predator lurking behind workout
machines for a perfect moment to make your move on women. That's the sad
point that the gyms have come to.

A grab of bite is an excuse to allure them in even further in your web.
People like you with their attitude distort the sole purpose of gyms.

Some people don't prefer to go to night clubs because they also believe that
they are unlikely to find a person in opposite sex in the same mindset. So,
they try hunting women in an environment that appeals to them (to the
hunters) so that they are more likely to find someone with more things in
common. More things in common lead to better chance in alluring women into
feeling and believing more safe and harmless going out with you. It is that
mentality that manipulates the whole purpose of gyms, and that's what makes
you a women-predator.

>>Could you give an example of a "heavy workout schedule"? And an
>>"ordinary workout schedule"?

>He uses the schedules in Arnold's book.

It's not like there are millions of possible workout routines.

In the past, I've done combinations, and followed other workout routines.
Depending on personal experience, I know what works better.

Now, I mix Arnold's workout schedule with my own. I put more pressure with
more reps and different workout routines without resting in between reps as
recommended in his workout schedule. The response in muscle growth that I've
obtained is substantial.

>The rest are "ordinary."

Nothing is so secret or as complicated about bodybuilding.

>> Carbs and Protein have 4 calories per gram; fat has 9 calories per gram.
>> To me, this means that you are saying that fatty foods should be avoided.
>> Is this correct? Also, is it OK to eat all the carbs you want since you
need
>> the calories to work out? And the same with protein?

>If a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, Atici is a ticking timebomb.

You cause more ticking than ever. ;-)

>> If someone eats more protein than they need to build and/or maintain
>> muscle, what happens to the extra protein?

>He's thumbing through his Arnold encyclopedia trying to find the answer.

Speak for yourself!

>> As far as I know, food is composed of water, fat, protein, and/or
>> carbohydrates (shut up, Lyle). Are you saying that the body takes the
>> protein from the food and trashes the rest?

>HIS body does, the rest of ours don't. At least as far as he's concerned.

Shmuck!

>> OK, if I'm happy with the way my legs and arms look but my stomach
>> is too big (fat), what do I need to do to get rid of the fat?

>He'll probably tell you that you need to stop socializing so much in the
>gym,

It only applies to people like you monkeying around in the gym, trying to
pick up chicks rather than being serious and committed to working out.

>and that you're a homo for getting a spot because all that means is
>you need to impress another guy.

As you're the one with such intention, it only applies to you.

>Not sure if he got that from his Arnold
>book or if he's making it up as he goes along. Actually, I *do* know
>(and so do you).

I got that from you.

Ryan Atici
July 23rd 03, 11:52 AM
>Because he read about that in Arnold's encycolopedia.

You're talking out of your ass again. He doesn't mention anything about
executing crunches at the end of your workout routine.

>You should subscribe to asb and his other gems. :-)

As always, your mouth does more workout than any part of your body.

>I think he's only using a German news server. He has a pretty strong
>anti-American bias.

Actually by simply depending on your own personal judgment, you're being
bias by putting yourself in charge to decide what is anti-American bias,
what is not.

You simply consider anything, that doesn't fit your way of thinking,
anti-American. It is a personal flaw in your own thinking, I should say.
Nobody should cater to your thinking and the way you perceive how Americans
ought to think. We're individuals in this country as we have rights to think
as individuals. Your own thought against another citizen is not a proof of
anti-Americanism. It is a desperate attempt to cheer people along with you
on your side.

You're very narrow-minded to think that every American should look through
the narrow window of yours to be considered as a good American.

Labeling a person is an old and ineffective trick to gain support of others.

>> What is a "protein rating"?

>It's a mystical value attributed to food.

You don't believe in science as well.

>Nevermind that some bodybuilders have done quite well with
>foods he rates with 60% (whatever the hell that means) or less.
>(www.andreascahling.com for example)

If you think the protein ratings are simply mystical, why do you even bother
arguing that some bodybuilders have done well or bad with only 60 percent of
protein intake?

What percentage some bodybuilders have done quite well with depends on their
genetics.

Nobody says that one has to consume egg 24/7 just because it has 100 percent
protein. The table provided before lists different source of food
recommended as a guidance in order to gain protein intake.

>>Well designed workout schedule is considered a heavy workout schedule
>>because it imposes discipline, dedication, and absolute avoidance of
goofing
>>or monkeying around.

>He started a thread on this one, Art. It's a hoot!

It's a hoot for a goofball like you.

>He's opposed to talking, spotting, and flirting (in no particular order) in
the gym.

You're taking things out of context.

Rather than working out, you simply use gyms for socializing and flirting.
To you, the gym is like a night club. I am against such mentality and the
attitude of those who use gyms as a perfect place to meet new people.

Let me repeat what I said again.

In particular, if one is committed to and serious about working out, such
seriousness brings discipline and attitude of seriousness and pure
concentration where others with less commitment and less seriousness and
concentration may walk in and start a conversation with you.

It makes you uncomfortable to be put in a situation where you have to brush
off the person either with facial expressions or short answers so that the
person (he or she) gets the message that you're not into holding a
conversation.

It makes you more uncomfortable when you have to go through this every 10 or
15 minutes with another person.

What is more interruptive and annoying is when somebody comes to you and
asks you to spot him. You don't wanna be mean to him, and therefore don't
wanna turn him down, but you don't wanna be interrupted either. People
should be more considerate not to put you in this position.

I understand that socializing is a big problem in the US as people are very
busy with work, school or other things to find enough time to socialize as
much as they want to. Believe it or not, I am speaking from a personal
experience because I've seen it happen all the time that less committed and
less serious people come to gyms thinking it is a perfect place for
socializing, and meeting new people. This is not a place to meet new people.
It is a wrong concept, and a distorted priority to come to a gym just to
meet new people. If you still disagree with this and ignore to see my point,
I have nothing else to say to a brick like you.

Instead of working out in the gym, you like to spend time talking, posing
and flirting. You defend yourself on the subject saying, "That doesn't stop
me from smiling at others, responding to them when asked questions, or
occasionally asking a young lady if she'd like to go grab a bite after we
finish working out"

You're also an opportunist and a women-predator lurking behind workout
machines for a perfect moment to make your move on women. That's the sad
point that the gyms have come to.

A grab of bite is an excuse to allure them in even further in your web.
People like you with their attitude distort the sole purpose of gyms.

Some people don't prefer to go to night clubs because they also believe that
they are unlikely to find a person in opposite sex in the same mindset. So,
they try hunting women in an environment that appeals to them (to the
hunters) so that they are more likely to find someone with more things in
common. More things in common lead to better chance in alluring women into
feeling and believing more safe and harmless going out with you. It is that
mentality that manipulates the whole purpose of gyms, and that's what makes
you a women-predator.

>>Could you give an example of a "heavy workout schedule"? And an
>>"ordinary workout schedule"?

>He uses the schedules in Arnold's book.

It's not like there are millions of possible workout routines.

In the past, I've done combinations, and followed other workout routines.
Depending on personal experience, I know what works better.

Now, I mix Arnold's workout schedule with my own. I put more pressure with
more reps and different workout routines without resting in between reps as
recommended in his workout schedule. The response in muscle growth that I've
obtained is substantial.

>The rest are "ordinary."

Nothing is so secret or as complicated about bodybuilding.

>> Carbs and Protein have 4 calories per gram; fat has 9 calories per gram.
>> To me, this means that you are saying that fatty foods should be avoided.
>> Is this correct? Also, is it OK to eat all the carbs you want since you
need
>> the calories to work out? And the same with protein?

>If a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, Atici is a ticking timebomb.

You cause more ticking than ever. ;-)

>> If someone eats more protein than they need to build and/or maintain
>> muscle, what happens to the extra protein?

>He's thumbing through his Arnold encyclopedia trying to find the answer.

Speak for yourself!

>> As far as I know, food is composed of water, fat, protein, and/or
>> carbohydrates (shut up, Lyle). Are you saying that the body takes the
>> protein from the food and trashes the rest?

>HIS body does, the rest of ours don't. At least as far as he's concerned.

Shmuck!

>> OK, if I'm happy with the way my legs and arms look but my stomach
>> is too big (fat), what do I need to do to get rid of the fat?

>He'll probably tell you that you need to stop socializing so much in the
>gym,

It only applies to people like you monkeying around in the gym, trying to
pick up chicks rather than being serious and committed to working out.

>and that you're a homo for getting a spot because all that means is
>you need to impress another guy.

As you're the one with such intention, it only applies to you.

>Not sure if he got that from his Arnold
>book or if he's making it up as he goes along. Actually, I *do* know
>(and so do you).

I got that from you.

JC Der Koenig
July 23rd 03, 01:14 PM
"Ryan Atici" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Muscles will get bigger when they are subjected to pressure.
>

So the larger the vise, the more muscle one can build?

>
> By the way, I am an American. I just use German newsgroup server.
>

No excuses then.

JC Der Koenig
July 23rd 03, 01:14 PM
"Ryan Atici" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Muscles will get bigger when they are subjected to pressure.
>

So the larger the vise, the more muscle one can build?

>
> By the way, I am an American. I just use German newsgroup server.
>

No excuses then.

omegazero2003
July 23rd 03, 04:49 PM
"Ryan Atici" > wrote in message
...
> >Out of curiosity, why should they be done at the end?
>
> The layer of fat doesn't prevent you from working out your muscles. If you
> can work out the muscle underneath the layer of fat, the layer of fat
above
> will also get hell of a workout.

Biochemically and physiologically-speaking, how exactly does the fat get its
workout?

Does it become SOUR two?

omegazero2003
July 23rd 03, 04:49 PM
"Ryan Atici" > wrote in message
...
> >Out of curiosity, why should they be done at the end?
>
> The layer of fat doesn't prevent you from working out your muscles. If you
> can work out the muscle underneath the layer of fat, the layer of fat
above
> will also get hell of a workout.

Biochemically and physiologically-speaking, how exactly does the fat get its
workout?

Does it become SOUR two?

xtrain13
July 23rd 03, 05:04 PM
Ryan Atici wrote:
>>Because he read about that in Arnold's encycolopedia.
>
> You're talking out of your ass again. He doesn't mention anything about
> executing crunches at the end of your workout routine.

You didn't give a very good explanation to Art, either.

Abs develop the same way as other muscle group. How does one get "more
results out of [one's] crunches" after one has reached a point of
fatigue from other muscle groups? The same illogic could be used to say
one should do crunches to fatigue FIRST so other exercises will be done
slower and more methodically without using momentum to one's advantage.

> As always, your mouth does more workout than any part of your body.

You don't know that. :-)

>>I think he's only using a German news server. He has a pretty strong
>>anti-American bias.
>
> Actually by simply depending on your own personal judgment, you're being
> bias by putting yourself in charge to decide what is anti-American bias,
> what is not.
>
> You simply consider anything, that doesn't fit your way of thinking,
> anti-American. It is a personal flaw in your own thinking, I should say.
> Nobody should cater to your thinking and the way you perceive how Americans
> ought to think. We're individuals in this country as we have rights to think
> as individuals. Your own thought against another citizen is not a proof of
> anti-Americanism. It is a desperate attempt to cheer people along with you
> on your side.

Quite the opposite. Here's what you said:

I just hate going to the gym. I don't mean to sound like I hate
working out though. I love working out. I just hate the fact
that gyms are like a zoo, not mainly but mostly used a pick-up
places in the States. The worst example of that is in
California. If you want, call it a meat market. I call it the
Americanization of the gyms. Desperate guys trying to pick up
women....
http://tinyurl.com/hsrz

Okay, so you claim you hate gyms more than you hate America. You still
call it "the Americanization of the gyms." Is that supposed to be praise
or perjorative?

> You're very narrow-minded to think that every American should look through
> the narrow window of yours to be considered as a good American.
>
> Labeling a person is an old and ineffective trick to gain support of others.

You mean like "Americanization" in your own context?

>>>What is a "protein rating"?
>
>>It's a mystical value attributed to food.
>
> You don't believe in science as well.

How is the phrase "protein rating" used in science?

>>Nevermind that some bodybuilders have done quite well with
>>foods he rates with 60% (whatever the hell that means) or less.
>>(www.andreascahling.com for example)
>
> If you think the protein ratings are simply mystical, why do you even bother
> arguing that some bodybuilders have done well or bad with only 60 percent of
> protein intake?

Re-read what I wrote and stop emoting.

> What percentage some bodybuilders have done quite well with depends on their
> genetics.

Ahh, so now genetics matter despite your previous position:

...[E]verybody has genetics to get big.

Of course you did qualify that and added a whole bunch of stuff about
"muscle-shock-into-growth" training schedules and such.

> Nobody says that one has to consume egg 24/7 just because it has 100 percent
> protein. The table provided before lists different source of food
> recommended as a guidance in order to gain protein intake.

Egg is not 100% protein. Egg white is, but the yolk has fat. ;-)

>>He started a thread on this one, Art. It's a hoot!
>
> It's a hoot for a goofball like you.

Let's see how many "goofballs" at mfw think it's funny then:
http://tinyurl.com/hsrz

>>He's opposed to talking, spotting, and flirting (in no particular order) in
>>the gym.
>
> You're taking things out of context.

Not at all.

> Rather than working out, you simply use gyms for socializing and flirting.

No, sir. I was quite clear with you. I go to the gym to train. I'm not
anti-social when people I've known for 15-20 years smile and say hello.
I'm not anti-social when someone asks for a spot or offers one. I'm not
opposed to asking a young lady to join me for supper. My workout comes
first, though.

> To you, the gym is like a night club. I am against such mentality and the
> attitude of those who use gyms as a perfect place to meet new people.

Gym women are healthier and share my same values. Besides, it's cheaper
since I'm already a member and paid up. Not at all like a nightclub
where there's a cover charge and drinks are overpriced and watered down.

> Let me repeat what I said again.

<snip since I pasted the link of what you actually said>

I'll leave this part:

> I understand that socializing is a big problem in the US as people are very
> busy with work, school or other things to find enough time to socialize as
> much as they want to.
<snip>

It's not a problem here, except to uptight, anti-social foreigners
and/or disillusioned immigrants. Be honest with yourself. You're not
happy here.

<resume snip>

>>He uses the schedules in Arnold's book.
>
> It's not like there are millions of possible workout routines.

From your original post I linked above:
I am following the set of exercise programs in "The New
Encyclopedia of Modern Bodybuilding" by Arnold Schwarzenegger.

> In the past, I've done combinations, and followed other workout routines.
> Depending on personal experience, I know what works better.
>
> Now, I mix Arnold's workout schedule with my own. I put more pressure with
> more reps and different workout routines without resting in between reps as
> recommended in his workout schedule. The response in muscle growth that I've
> obtained is substantial.

Can you quantify "substantial"?

<snip>
>>He'll probably tell you that you need to stop socializing so much in the
>>gym,
>
> It only applies to people like you monkeying around in the gym, trying to
> pick up chicks rather than being serious and committed to working out.

They're NOT mutually exclusive.

<snip>
>>Not sure if he got that from his Arnold
>>book or if he's making it up as he goes along. Actually, I *do* know
>>(and so do you).
>
> I got that from you.

No, you make it up as you go along. Remember, I'm the one who likes the
young ladies. You don't want them in the same room with you.

xtrain13
July 23rd 03, 05:04 PM
Ryan Atici wrote:
>>Because he read about that in Arnold's encycolopedia.
>
> You're talking out of your ass again. He doesn't mention anything about
> executing crunches at the end of your workout routine.

You didn't give a very good explanation to Art, either.

Abs develop the same way as other muscle group. How does one get "more
results out of [one's] crunches" after one has reached a point of
fatigue from other muscle groups? The same illogic could be used to say
one should do crunches to fatigue FIRST so other exercises will be done
slower and more methodically without using momentum to one's advantage.

> As always, your mouth does more workout than any part of your body.

You don't know that. :-)

>>I think he's only using a German news server. He has a pretty strong
>>anti-American bias.
>
> Actually by simply depending on your own personal judgment, you're being
> bias by putting yourself in charge to decide what is anti-American bias,
> what is not.
>
> You simply consider anything, that doesn't fit your way of thinking,
> anti-American. It is a personal flaw in your own thinking, I should say.
> Nobody should cater to your thinking and the way you perceive how Americans
> ought to think. We're individuals in this country as we have rights to think
> as individuals. Your own thought against another citizen is not a proof of
> anti-Americanism. It is a desperate attempt to cheer people along with you
> on your side.

Quite the opposite. Here's what you said:

I just hate going to the gym. I don't mean to sound like I hate
working out though. I love working out. I just hate the fact
that gyms are like a zoo, not mainly but mostly used a pick-up
places in the States. The worst example of that is in
California. If you want, call it a meat market. I call it the
Americanization of the gyms. Desperate guys trying to pick up
women....
http://tinyurl.com/hsrz

Okay, so you claim you hate gyms more than you hate America. You still
call it "the Americanization of the gyms." Is that supposed to be praise
or perjorative?

> You're very narrow-minded to think that every American should look through
> the narrow window of yours to be considered as a good American.
>
> Labeling a person is an old and ineffective trick to gain support of others.

You mean like "Americanization" in your own context?

>>>What is a "protein rating"?
>
>>It's a mystical value attributed to food.
>
> You don't believe in science as well.

How is the phrase "protein rating" used in science?

>>Nevermind that some bodybuilders have done quite well with
>>foods he rates with 60% (whatever the hell that means) or less.
>>(www.andreascahling.com for example)
>
> If you think the protein ratings are simply mystical, why do you even bother
> arguing that some bodybuilders have done well or bad with only 60 percent of
> protein intake?

Re-read what I wrote and stop emoting.

> What percentage some bodybuilders have done quite well with depends on their
> genetics.

Ahh, so now genetics matter despite your previous position:

...[E]verybody has genetics to get big.

Of course you did qualify that and added a whole bunch of stuff about
"muscle-shock-into-growth" training schedules and such.

> Nobody says that one has to consume egg 24/7 just because it has 100 percent
> protein. The table provided before lists different source of food
> recommended as a guidance in order to gain protein intake.

Egg is not 100% protein. Egg white is, but the yolk has fat. ;-)

>>He started a thread on this one, Art. It's a hoot!
>
> It's a hoot for a goofball like you.

Let's see how many "goofballs" at mfw think it's funny then:
http://tinyurl.com/hsrz

>>He's opposed to talking, spotting, and flirting (in no particular order) in
>>the gym.
>
> You're taking things out of context.

Not at all.

> Rather than working out, you simply use gyms for socializing and flirting.

No, sir. I was quite clear with you. I go to the gym to train. I'm not
anti-social when people I've known for 15-20 years smile and say hello.
I'm not anti-social when someone asks for a spot or offers one. I'm not
opposed to asking a young lady to join me for supper. My workout comes
first, though.

> To you, the gym is like a night club. I am against such mentality and the
> attitude of those who use gyms as a perfect place to meet new people.

Gym women are healthier and share my same values. Besides, it's cheaper
since I'm already a member and paid up. Not at all like a nightclub
where there's a cover charge and drinks are overpriced and watered down.

> Let me repeat what I said again.

<snip since I pasted the link of what you actually said>

I'll leave this part:

> I understand that socializing is a big problem in the US as people are very
> busy with work, school or other things to find enough time to socialize as
> much as they want to.
<snip>

It's not a problem here, except to uptight, anti-social foreigners
and/or disillusioned immigrants. Be honest with yourself. You're not
happy here.

<resume snip>

>>He uses the schedules in Arnold's book.
>
> It's not like there are millions of possible workout routines.

From your original post I linked above:
I am following the set of exercise programs in "The New
Encyclopedia of Modern Bodybuilding" by Arnold Schwarzenegger.

> In the past, I've done combinations, and followed other workout routines.
> Depending on personal experience, I know what works better.
>
> Now, I mix Arnold's workout schedule with my own. I put more pressure with
> more reps and different workout routines without resting in between reps as
> recommended in his workout schedule. The response in muscle growth that I've
> obtained is substantial.

Can you quantify "substantial"?

<snip>
>>He'll probably tell you that you need to stop socializing so much in the
>>gym,
>
> It only applies to people like you monkeying around in the gym, trying to
> pick up chicks rather than being serious and committed to working out.

They're NOT mutually exclusive.

<snip>
>>Not sure if he got that from his Arnold
>>book or if he's making it up as he goes along. Actually, I *do* know
>>(and so do you).
>
> I got that from you.

No, you make it up as you go along. Remember, I'm the one who likes the
young ladies. You don't want them in the same room with you.

David Cohen
July 23rd 03, 11:25 PM
"xtrain13" > wrote
> Ryan Atici wrote:
>
> Let's see how many "goofballs" at mfw think it's funny then:
> http://tinyurl.com/hsrz

"I'll give them the benefit of the doubt
and try not to jump into conclusion thinking they might be fags as
they walk
around you throwing you a glance every once in a while as you work out
waiting for a pause in your workout to start a conversation with you."

I think it's funny, because MFW is a well known gay weightlifting
newsgroup. We are all "Gay As ****" (tm). Even those in denial.

The part about following Arnold's routines is just...sad. Everyone
knows Louie and Franco had better routines.

David

David Cohen
July 23rd 03, 11:25 PM
"xtrain13" > wrote
> Ryan Atici wrote:
>
> Let's see how many "goofballs" at mfw think it's funny then:
> http://tinyurl.com/hsrz

"I'll give them the benefit of the doubt
and try not to jump into conclusion thinking they might be fags as
they walk
around you throwing you a glance every once in a while as you work out
waiting for a pause in your workout to start a conversation with you."

I think it's funny, because MFW is a well known gay weightlifting
newsgroup. We are all "Gay As ****" (tm). Even those in denial.

The part about following Arnold's routines is just...sad. Everyone
knows Louie and Franco had better routines.

David

Art S
July 24th 03, 06:10 AM
"Ryan Atici" > wrote in message
...
>
> >And maybe provide some alternate terms? Also,
> >you seem to be posting from Germany. You don't
> >seem to be using a translator. Is it possible that every
> >once in a while you are choosing a word that isn't the
> >best one? If so, it may help to post the German word,
> >and let us use a translator to select the proper word
> >for the context.
>
> Actually, there is no mistake in the term or with the choice of word. Before
> talking about sourness, I indicated that two different bodies, one with, the
> other one without fat show the same kinds of muscular reaction, and sourness
> indicates that you've really given your muscles an intensive workout.
>

Almost all of the definitions of sourness that I've seen are related to taste.
None of them seem relevant. How can I tell when my muscles are "sour"?

"Soreness," by the way, is a poor indicator of how good a workout is because
it be caused by muscle, tendon, and/or ligament damage. Tendon damage
does NOT mean that the workout was good.

> The layer of fat doesn't prevent you from working out your muscles. If you
> can work out the muscle underneath the layer of fat, the layer of fat above
> will also get hell of a workout.
>

The fat gets a workout? I've never heard this before.

>
> >What is a "protein rating"?
>
> I don't mean to make you go, "duh!" but it is the percentage of protein in
> the food. I thought the original poster would wanna get a table of foods
> with protein ratings.
>

You said that eggs have a 100% protein rating. According to the USDA,
100 grams of whole eggs have 12.58 grams of protein (as well as 1.12 grams
of carbohydrates, 10.61 grams of fat, and 74.62 grams of water). 100 grams
of egg whites have 10.52 grams of protein (and 1.03 grams of carbohydrates
and 87.81 grams of water).

> >Could you give an example of a "heavy workout schedule"? And an
> >"ordinary workout schedule"?
>
> Heavy workout schedule consists of sets of reps with minimum pause and
> gradual weight increase in between reps. Once you get your heart pounding
> like crazy, you keep it pounding like crazy till the end of your workout.
>
> Through the first a few sets of reps, I don't pause at all. Then after each
> set of reps, I pause only 5 seconds for the first part of the 15 minute long
> workout. During the second part of the 15 minute workout, I only pause 10
> seconds in between each set of reps. I get so exhausted I can barely raise a
> cup of water without my hand shaking uncontrollably.
>
> The ordinary workout routine lacks all of the above.

And if you were to lift the same amount of weight but wait longer between
each set, how would that affect the amount of calories you burn?

>
> >Carbs and Protein have 4 calories per gram; fat has 9 calories per gram.
> >To me, this means that you are saying that fatty foods should be avoided.
> >Is this correct? Also, is it OK to eat all the carbs you want since you
> need
> >the calories to work out? And the same with protein?
>
> No body has zero fat. Most of the pro bodybuilders have 12 percent body fat.
> Is it possible to go lower than 12 percent of body fat? Yes, it is possible.
> Is it worth it? No... You don't wanna turn your life into hell by being
> obsessive about what you eat. Everything is good within reason.
>

Last I heard, pro male bodybuilders get closer to 6% than 12%.

> Having said that, if you're already fat, you'd better cut down on fatty food
> as much as you can...
>
> If you want to make your muscles bigger you need to give them appropriate
> stress and carbohydrates for fuel. As I indicated before, you need to
> balance the calorie intake. You don't wanna take a lot more calories than
> you can burn.
>

If I need carbohydrates for fuel, what happens if I don't eat any?

>
> Your consumption of protein should also be spread evenly during the day
> because the human body can't absorb so much of protein at the same time.

How much can it absorb at one time?

> >If someone eats more protein than they need to build and/or maintain
> >muscle, what happens to the extra protein?
>
> As I said above, the human body can't absorb all the protein at once.
>
> Let's say you spread protein consumption evenly during the day, and absorb
> extra protein. The extra protein can become a stressful stimulus for the
> kidney. Excess also increases urinary calcium excretion, which leads to loss
> of calcium through urine and could lead to osteoporosis.
>

How does extra protein stress the kidney? Do you have any medical studies
showing this?

> >Does this mean that you can't lose weight (fat) unless you do a strenuous
> >workout?
>
> Well, it depends what part of fat you're referring to. Let's say a person
> who has never ever worked out in his life weighs 350 pounds. With
> mumbo-jumbo moves done daily, he can only lose a certain amount of fat.
> Losing the first 50 pounds or so would be easy and possible without any
> strenuous workout, but after that, mumbo-jumbo moves will not be enough to
> help him lose any more weight. He needs to go a few notches higher on the
> intensity of the workout. At this point, we're just talking about losing
> weight, not bodybuilding.

So if someone who is fat wants to lose weight, they need to exercise? Just
going on a diet isn't enough?

> If an obese person wants to come to a point to
> build his body, of course he needs a strenuous workout schedule.
>

What do you mean by "build his body"? Add muscle? Add a lot of
muscle? How much?

> If you're just fat, you can lose fat and build your body at the same time by
> working out. But if you're obese, of course it is not possible to lose fat
> and build body at the same time. An obese person has to lose enough weight
> just to come to the point of being fat so that he can execute properly each
> and every set of reps. An obese person can't even execute 1 rep of crunch.
>
> >OK, if I'm happy with the way my legs and arms look but my stomach
> >is too big (fat), what do I need to do to get rid of the fat?
>
> I strongly recommend that you don't consume alcohol. If you're trying to get
> rid of the layer of fat on your stomach, the alcohol is your enemy. Follow a
> good diet regimen that works for you. Every body is different, and responds
> different to different food. What kind of diet you need to follow depends on
> your metabolism.
>

I haven't had alcohol for 10 years, so that doesn't help me.

How do I determine what type of metabolism I have and what kind of diet
I need?

> Execute variety of different sets of Hip Raise, Kneeling Crunch, Seated
> Crunch, Crunch, Hanging Hip Raise, Incline Hip Raise, Jack-knife Sit-up,
> Vertical Hip Raise, Incline Twisting Sit-up, Incline Twisting Crunch, Side
> Bend, Twist, Seated Leg Tucks, Flat Bench Leg Raise.
>
>

Those look like they are all for the abs. Does that mean doing bench presses,
squats, leg presses, triceps push downs, and bicep curls won't help lose weight,
or that they wouldn't help me lose fat from my abs?

Thanks,

Art

Art S
July 24th 03, 06:10 AM
"Ryan Atici" > wrote in message
...
>
> >And maybe provide some alternate terms? Also,
> >you seem to be posting from Germany. You don't
> >seem to be using a translator. Is it possible that every
> >once in a while you are choosing a word that isn't the
> >best one? If so, it may help to post the German word,
> >and let us use a translator to select the proper word
> >for the context.
>
> Actually, there is no mistake in the term or with the choice of word. Before
> talking about sourness, I indicated that two different bodies, one with, the
> other one without fat show the same kinds of muscular reaction, and sourness
> indicates that you've really given your muscles an intensive workout.
>

Almost all of the definitions of sourness that I've seen are related to taste.
None of them seem relevant. How can I tell when my muscles are "sour"?

"Soreness," by the way, is a poor indicator of how good a workout is because
it be caused by muscle, tendon, and/or ligament damage. Tendon damage
does NOT mean that the workout was good.

> The layer of fat doesn't prevent you from working out your muscles. If you
> can work out the muscle underneath the layer of fat, the layer of fat above
> will also get hell of a workout.
>

The fat gets a workout? I've never heard this before.

>
> >What is a "protein rating"?
>
> I don't mean to make you go, "duh!" but it is the percentage of protein in
> the food. I thought the original poster would wanna get a table of foods
> with protein ratings.
>

You said that eggs have a 100% protein rating. According to the USDA,
100 grams of whole eggs have 12.58 grams of protein (as well as 1.12 grams
of carbohydrates, 10.61 grams of fat, and 74.62 grams of water). 100 grams
of egg whites have 10.52 grams of protein (and 1.03 grams of carbohydrates
and 87.81 grams of water).

> >Could you give an example of a "heavy workout schedule"? And an
> >"ordinary workout schedule"?
>
> Heavy workout schedule consists of sets of reps with minimum pause and
> gradual weight increase in between reps. Once you get your heart pounding
> like crazy, you keep it pounding like crazy till the end of your workout.
>
> Through the first a few sets of reps, I don't pause at all. Then after each
> set of reps, I pause only 5 seconds for the first part of the 15 minute long
> workout. During the second part of the 15 minute workout, I only pause 10
> seconds in between each set of reps. I get so exhausted I can barely raise a
> cup of water without my hand shaking uncontrollably.
>
> The ordinary workout routine lacks all of the above.

And if you were to lift the same amount of weight but wait longer between
each set, how would that affect the amount of calories you burn?

>
> >Carbs and Protein have 4 calories per gram; fat has 9 calories per gram.
> >To me, this means that you are saying that fatty foods should be avoided.
> >Is this correct? Also, is it OK to eat all the carbs you want since you
> need
> >the calories to work out? And the same with protein?
>
> No body has zero fat. Most of the pro bodybuilders have 12 percent body fat.
> Is it possible to go lower than 12 percent of body fat? Yes, it is possible.
> Is it worth it? No... You don't wanna turn your life into hell by being
> obsessive about what you eat. Everything is good within reason.
>

Last I heard, pro male bodybuilders get closer to 6% than 12%.

> Having said that, if you're already fat, you'd better cut down on fatty food
> as much as you can...
>
> If you want to make your muscles bigger you need to give them appropriate
> stress and carbohydrates for fuel. As I indicated before, you need to
> balance the calorie intake. You don't wanna take a lot more calories than
> you can burn.
>

If I need carbohydrates for fuel, what happens if I don't eat any?

>
> Your consumption of protein should also be spread evenly during the day
> because the human body can't absorb so much of protein at the same time.

How much can it absorb at one time?

> >If someone eats more protein than they need to build and/or maintain
> >muscle, what happens to the extra protein?
>
> As I said above, the human body can't absorb all the protein at once.
>
> Let's say you spread protein consumption evenly during the day, and absorb
> extra protein. The extra protein can become a stressful stimulus for the
> kidney. Excess also increases urinary calcium excretion, which leads to loss
> of calcium through urine and could lead to osteoporosis.
>

How does extra protein stress the kidney? Do you have any medical studies
showing this?

> >Does this mean that you can't lose weight (fat) unless you do a strenuous
> >workout?
>
> Well, it depends what part of fat you're referring to. Let's say a person
> who has never ever worked out in his life weighs 350 pounds. With
> mumbo-jumbo moves done daily, he can only lose a certain amount of fat.
> Losing the first 50 pounds or so would be easy and possible without any
> strenuous workout, but after that, mumbo-jumbo moves will not be enough to
> help him lose any more weight. He needs to go a few notches higher on the
> intensity of the workout. At this point, we're just talking about losing
> weight, not bodybuilding.

So if someone who is fat wants to lose weight, they need to exercise? Just
going on a diet isn't enough?

> If an obese person wants to come to a point to
> build his body, of course he needs a strenuous workout schedule.
>

What do you mean by "build his body"? Add muscle? Add a lot of
muscle? How much?

> If you're just fat, you can lose fat and build your body at the same time by
> working out. But if you're obese, of course it is not possible to lose fat
> and build body at the same time. An obese person has to lose enough weight
> just to come to the point of being fat so that he can execute properly each
> and every set of reps. An obese person can't even execute 1 rep of crunch.
>
> >OK, if I'm happy with the way my legs and arms look but my stomach
> >is too big (fat), what do I need to do to get rid of the fat?
>
> I strongly recommend that you don't consume alcohol. If you're trying to get
> rid of the layer of fat on your stomach, the alcohol is your enemy. Follow a
> good diet regimen that works for you. Every body is different, and responds
> different to different food. What kind of diet you need to follow depends on
> your metabolism.
>

I haven't had alcohol for 10 years, so that doesn't help me.

How do I determine what type of metabolism I have and what kind of diet
I need?

> Execute variety of different sets of Hip Raise, Kneeling Crunch, Seated
> Crunch, Crunch, Hanging Hip Raise, Incline Hip Raise, Jack-knife Sit-up,
> Vertical Hip Raise, Incline Twisting Sit-up, Incline Twisting Crunch, Side
> Bend, Twist, Seated Leg Tucks, Flat Bench Leg Raise.
>
>

Those look like they are all for the abs. Does that mean doing bench presses,
squats, leg presses, triceps push downs, and bicep curls won't help lose weight,
or that they wouldn't help me lose fat from my abs?

Thanks,

Art

Ryan Atici
July 27th 03, 03:33 AM
>Almost all of the definitions of sourness that I've seen are related to
taste.
>None of them seem relevant. How can I tell when my muscles are "sour"?

My mind was busy with something else as I was typing the word. It was just
an honest mistake.

As for how you can tell if your muscles are "sour" or not, work out to
fatigue first, then start licking your muscles, if you feel any sour taste,
that's how you can tell.

>"Soreness," by the way, is a poor indicator of how good a workout is
because
>it be caused by muscle, tendon, and/or ligament damage. Tendon damage
>does NOT mean that the workout was good.

If you're smart enough with your workout routine, all you get it muscle
soreness, and that is a good indication.

>The fat gets a workout? I've never heard this before.

Probably you need to read more.

>You said that eggs have a 100% protein rating. According to the USDA,
>100 grams of whole eggs have 12.58 grams of protein (as well as 1.12 grams
>of carbohydrates, 10.61 grams of fat, and 74.62 grams of water). 100 grams
>of egg whites have 10.52 grams of protein (and 1.03 grams of carbohydrates
>and 87.81 grams of water).

The rate of 100 percent protein indicates that the source of food is pure
protein.

>> Heavy workout schedule consists of sets of reps with minimum pause and
>> gradual weight increase in between reps. Once you get your heart pounding
>> like crazy, you keep it pounding like crazy till the end of your workout.
>>
>> Through the first a few sets of reps, I don't pause at all. Then after
each
>> set of reps, I pause only 5 seconds for the first part of the 15 minute
long
>> workout. During the second part of the 15 minute workout, I only pause 10
>> seconds in between each set of reps. I get so exhausted I can barely
raise a
>> cup of water without my hand shaking uncontrollably.
>>
>> The ordinary workout routine lacks all of the above.

>And if you were to lift the same amount of weight but wait longer between
>each set, how would that affect the amount of calories you burn?

If you're referring to my workout routine, it doesn't matter. The difference
between 5 seconds and 10 seconds barely matters. Even the rate your heart
beats doesn't change. We're not talking about minutes of difference. It is
just another 5 seconds.

After such intense workout, I am allowing 10 seconds of rest in between reps
so that I can keep working out as intense as the first part of my routine.

>Last I heard, pro male bodybuilders get closer to 6% than 12%.

You need to hear better.

>If I need carbohydrates for fuel, what happens if I don't eat any?

That means you don't have fuel ready. ;-)

>How much can it absorb at one time?

You need to do some reading on that for your self-satisfaction.

>How does extra protein stress the kidney? Do you have any medical studies
>showing this?

Again, you need to read the medical studies for self-satisfaction.

>So if someone who is fat wants to lose weight, they need to exercise? Just
>going on a diet isn't enough?

Yep, you can't lose all the fat just by cutting down on food. If you're a
habitual eater, you lose some here and there to certain degree just by going
on a diet. At some point, even though you stop eating, you can't lose any
more weight.

>What do you mean by "build his body"? Add muscle? Add a lot of
>muscle? How much?

Can you build body without adding muscle? I know where you're going with all
these questions. I am just playing along with you.

>I haven't had alcohol for 10 years, so that doesn't help me.

It helps those who drink.

>How do I determine what type of metabolism I have and what kind of diet
>I need?

It is all about knowing yourself. If you're falling short on that, go to a
doctor.

>Those look like they are all for the abs.

You asked me what you should do if you had a big stomach. That's what you
have to do.

>Does that mean doing bench presses, squats, leg presses, triceps push
downs, and bicep
>curls won't help lose weight, or that they wouldn't help me lose fat from
my abs?

As you do those workout routines, you sure lose calories as you particularly
develop your abs.

Ryan Atici
July 27th 03, 03:33 AM
>Almost all of the definitions of sourness that I've seen are related to
taste.
>None of them seem relevant. How can I tell when my muscles are "sour"?

My mind was busy with something else as I was typing the word. It was just
an honest mistake.

As for how you can tell if your muscles are "sour" or not, work out to
fatigue first, then start licking your muscles, if you feel any sour taste,
that's how you can tell.

>"Soreness," by the way, is a poor indicator of how good a workout is
because
>it be caused by muscle, tendon, and/or ligament damage. Tendon damage
>does NOT mean that the workout was good.

If you're smart enough with your workout routine, all you get it muscle
soreness, and that is a good indication.

>The fat gets a workout? I've never heard this before.

Probably you need to read more.

>You said that eggs have a 100% protein rating. According to the USDA,
>100 grams of whole eggs have 12.58 grams of protein (as well as 1.12 grams
>of carbohydrates, 10.61 grams of fat, and 74.62 grams of water). 100 grams
>of egg whites have 10.52 grams of protein (and 1.03 grams of carbohydrates
>and 87.81 grams of water).

The rate of 100 percent protein indicates that the source of food is pure
protein.

>> Heavy workout schedule consists of sets of reps with minimum pause and
>> gradual weight increase in between reps. Once you get your heart pounding
>> like crazy, you keep it pounding like crazy till the end of your workout.
>>
>> Through the first a few sets of reps, I don't pause at all. Then after
each
>> set of reps, I pause only 5 seconds for the first part of the 15 minute
long
>> workout. During the second part of the 15 minute workout, I only pause 10
>> seconds in between each set of reps. I get so exhausted I can barely
raise a
>> cup of water without my hand shaking uncontrollably.
>>
>> The ordinary workout routine lacks all of the above.

>And if you were to lift the same amount of weight but wait longer between
>each set, how would that affect the amount of calories you burn?

If you're referring to my workout routine, it doesn't matter. The difference
between 5 seconds and 10 seconds barely matters. Even the rate your heart
beats doesn't change. We're not talking about minutes of difference. It is
just another 5 seconds.

After such intense workout, I am allowing 10 seconds of rest in between reps
so that I can keep working out as intense as the first part of my routine.

>Last I heard, pro male bodybuilders get closer to 6% than 12%.

You need to hear better.

>If I need carbohydrates for fuel, what happens if I don't eat any?

That means you don't have fuel ready. ;-)

>How much can it absorb at one time?

You need to do some reading on that for your self-satisfaction.

>How does extra protein stress the kidney? Do you have any medical studies
>showing this?

Again, you need to read the medical studies for self-satisfaction.

>So if someone who is fat wants to lose weight, they need to exercise? Just
>going on a diet isn't enough?

Yep, you can't lose all the fat just by cutting down on food. If you're a
habitual eater, you lose some here and there to certain degree just by going
on a diet. At some point, even though you stop eating, you can't lose any
more weight.

>What do you mean by "build his body"? Add muscle? Add a lot of
>muscle? How much?

Can you build body without adding muscle? I know where you're going with all
these questions. I am just playing along with you.

>I haven't had alcohol for 10 years, so that doesn't help me.

It helps those who drink.

>How do I determine what type of metabolism I have and what kind of diet
>I need?

It is all about knowing yourself. If you're falling short on that, go to a
doctor.

>Those look like they are all for the abs.

You asked me what you should do if you had a big stomach. That's what you
have to do.

>Does that mean doing bench presses, squats, leg presses, triceps push
downs, and bicep
>curls won't help lose weight, or that they wouldn't help me lose fat from
my abs?

As you do those workout routines, you sure lose calories as you particularly
develop your abs.

Ryan Atici
July 27th 03, 03:55 AM
>You didn't give a very good explanation to Art, either.
>Abs develop the same way as other muscle group. How does one get "more
>results out of [one's] crunches" after one has reached a point of
>fatigue from other muscle groups?

For most, abs are the hardest part to develop. After you reach the point of
fatigue from other muscle groups, your abs still get some sort of workout by
tightening up the abs as you lift weight and breath in and out. Through the
breathing pattern and the pressure of the weight, the abs tighten up even as
you do lying triceps extensions and many other workout routines.

>The same illogic could be used to say one should do crunches to fatigue
FIRST so other
>exercises will be done slower and more methodically without using momentum
to one's
>advantage.

Nope! Do crunches to death if you want, it doesn't slow you down a bit as
you work out your arms, forearms, shoulders, neck, chest. Read again what I
said above.

>> As always, your mouth does more workout than any part of your body.

>You don't know that. :-)

You said you liked flirting in the gym. ;-)

>>Quite the opposite. Here's what you said:

It is not opposite.

>I just hate going to the gym. I don't mean to sound like I hate
>working out though. I love working out. I just hate the fact
>that gyms are like a zoo, not mainly but mostly used a pick-up
>places in the States. The worst example of that is in
>California.

That's a fact. Most gyms are like a zoo in California.

>If you want, call it a meat market. I call it the Americanization
>of the gyms. Desperate guys trying to pick up women....

This exactly sums up your conduct in the gym.

>Okay, so you claim you hate gyms more than you hate America.

Nope! That's your misinterpretation, and lack of understanding.

>You still call it "the Americanization of the gyms." Is that supposed to be
praise
>or perjorative?

Just like people in gyms turning gyms into a zoo, there are people in this
country turning this country into a zoo.

I simply hate to see gyms turning into zoo because people like you go to
gyms to socialize, meet new people, and pick up chicks. At the end, you
admitted that you liked flirting in the gym.

>> Labeling a person is an old and ineffective trick to gain support of
others.

>You mean like "Americanization" in your own context?

No, that stands for a fact and far from being ineffective trick. ;-)

>> You don't believe in science as well.

>How is the phrase "protein rating" used in science?

Not used in science, dummy! Such rating is determined with scientific
measures.

>Re-read what I wrote and stop emoting.

Responding to what you wrote previously was exactly what I did. Showing your
inconsistent statements has nothing to do with emoting.

>>What percentage some bodybuilders have done quite well with depends on
their
>>genetics.

>Ahh, so now genetics matter despite your previous position:

Nope, you're confused again.

We're talking about protein, not about workout. Some bodybuilders do well
with certain amount of protein than other bodybuilders. How your body reacts
to food depends on your metabolism, and genes.

>...[E]verybody has genetics to get big.
>Of course you did qualify that and added a whole bunch of stuff about
>"muscle-shock-into-growth" training schedules and such.

Everybody has genetics to get big. How your body responds to certain
percentage of protein depends on your genes and metabolism.

If the protein percentage is 60 as apposed to 80 or 100, you need to eat
more food than you would have had to... if you resorted to food with 80 or
100 percent protein rating.

It is okay to eat food with 60 percent protein in the morning or the
afternoon. At night, you eat something different with more protein. No
bodybuilder sticks to the same kind of food with only 60 percent protein
24/7. Bodybuilders eat variety of food with different protein percentage.

>Egg is not 100% protein. Egg white is, but the yolk has fat. ;-)

Egg itself is a pure protein. That's what 100 percent means. ;-)

>> Rather than working out, you simply use gyms for socializing and
flirting.

>No, sir. I was quite clear with you. I go to the gym to train.

How about flirting then? You said you liked flirting in the gym. It doesn't
sound to me like you go to gym to train.

>I'm not anti-social when people I've known for 15-20 years smile and say
hello.
>I'm not anti-social when someone asks for a spot or offers one.

It doesn't mean you're anti-social if you don't wanna be interrupted when
working out.

>I'm not opposed to asking a young lady to join me for supper. My workout
comes
>first, though.

You're not opposed to pretending to be working out while you wait for the
right moment to make your move on a woman. Why do you have to come to gyms
to get chicks? If you wanna meet new people and flirt, go to a club.

>Gym women are healthier and share my same values.

Since you both are in the gym, it shows that there are things in common. So,
that makes it easier for you to approach women and allure them into your
web. That's a predator mentality.

>Besides, it's cheaper since I'm already a member and paid up.

You simply go to gym hoping to get lucky. You think, since you paid money to
work out in the gym, you might as well try to see if you get lucky with any
lady. You're a hustler.

>> I understand that socializing is a big problem in the US as people are
very
>> busy with work, school or other things to find enough time to socialize
as
>> much as they want to.

>It's not a problem here,

Is that why you use gyms for socializing and flirting?

>except to uptight, anti-social foreigners
>and/or disillusioned immigrants.

Then you must be one of them. ;-)

>Be honest with yourself. You're not happy here.

Because I don't agree with you? I couldn't be happier because schmucks like
you are not all that many in this country. ;-)

>> It's not like there are millions of possible workout routines.

>From your original post I linked above:
>I am following the set of exercise programs in "The New
>Encyclopedia of Modern Bodybuilding" by Arnold Schwarzenegger.

It doesn't change the fact that there are not millions of possible workout
routines.
I mix his workout schedule with mine.

>Can you quantify "substantial"?

A couple of inches...

>> It only applies to people like you monkeying around in the gym, trying to
>> pick up chicks rather than being serious and committed to working out.

>They're NOT mutually exclusive.

Stop fooling yourself.

>> I got that from you.

>No, you make it up as you go along.

That's what you think.

>Remember, I'm the one who likes the young ladies.

Is that why you turn into a hustler in the gym?

>You don't want them in the same room with you.

Not at all! Anybody's presence is fine with me as long as I am not
distracted or drawn into conversation while I work out. There's an
appropriate time and place for flirting. My priorities are not below the
waist as yours. Unlike you, I go to gym to work out.

Ryan Atici
July 27th 03, 03:55 AM
>You didn't give a very good explanation to Art, either.
>Abs develop the same way as other muscle group. How does one get "more
>results out of [one's] crunches" after one has reached a point of
>fatigue from other muscle groups?

For most, abs are the hardest part to develop. After you reach the point of
fatigue from other muscle groups, your abs still get some sort of workout by
tightening up the abs as you lift weight and breath in and out. Through the
breathing pattern and the pressure of the weight, the abs tighten up even as
you do lying triceps extensions and many other workout routines.

>The same illogic could be used to say one should do crunches to fatigue
FIRST so other
>exercises will be done slower and more methodically without using momentum
to one's
>advantage.

Nope! Do crunches to death if you want, it doesn't slow you down a bit as
you work out your arms, forearms, shoulders, neck, chest. Read again what I
said above.

>> As always, your mouth does more workout than any part of your body.

>You don't know that. :-)

You said you liked flirting in the gym. ;-)

>>Quite the opposite. Here's what you said:

It is not opposite.

>I just hate going to the gym. I don't mean to sound like I hate
>working out though. I love working out. I just hate the fact
>that gyms are like a zoo, not mainly but mostly used a pick-up
>places in the States. The worst example of that is in
>California.

That's a fact. Most gyms are like a zoo in California.

>If you want, call it a meat market. I call it the Americanization
>of the gyms. Desperate guys trying to pick up women....

This exactly sums up your conduct in the gym.

>Okay, so you claim you hate gyms more than you hate America.

Nope! That's your misinterpretation, and lack of understanding.

>You still call it "the Americanization of the gyms." Is that supposed to be
praise
>or perjorative?

Just like people in gyms turning gyms into a zoo, there are people in this
country turning this country into a zoo.

I simply hate to see gyms turning into zoo because people like you go to
gyms to socialize, meet new people, and pick up chicks. At the end, you
admitted that you liked flirting in the gym.

>> Labeling a person is an old and ineffective trick to gain support of
others.

>You mean like "Americanization" in your own context?

No, that stands for a fact and far from being ineffective trick. ;-)

>> You don't believe in science as well.

>How is the phrase "protein rating" used in science?

Not used in science, dummy! Such rating is determined with scientific
measures.

>Re-read what I wrote and stop emoting.

Responding to what you wrote previously was exactly what I did. Showing your
inconsistent statements has nothing to do with emoting.

>>What percentage some bodybuilders have done quite well with depends on
their
>>genetics.

>Ahh, so now genetics matter despite your previous position:

Nope, you're confused again.

We're talking about protein, not about workout. Some bodybuilders do well
with certain amount of protein than other bodybuilders. How your body reacts
to food depends on your metabolism, and genes.

>...[E]verybody has genetics to get big.
>Of course you did qualify that and added a whole bunch of stuff about
>"muscle-shock-into-growth" training schedules and such.

Everybody has genetics to get big. How your body responds to certain
percentage of protein depends on your genes and metabolism.

If the protein percentage is 60 as apposed to 80 or 100, you need to eat
more food than you would have had to... if you resorted to food with 80 or
100 percent protein rating.

It is okay to eat food with 60 percent protein in the morning or the
afternoon. At night, you eat something different with more protein. No
bodybuilder sticks to the same kind of food with only 60 percent protein
24/7. Bodybuilders eat variety of food with different protein percentage.

>Egg is not 100% protein. Egg white is, but the yolk has fat. ;-)

Egg itself is a pure protein. That's what 100 percent means. ;-)

>> Rather than working out, you simply use gyms for socializing and
flirting.

>No, sir. I was quite clear with you. I go to the gym to train.

How about flirting then? You said you liked flirting in the gym. It doesn't
sound to me like you go to gym to train.

>I'm not anti-social when people I've known for 15-20 years smile and say
hello.
>I'm not anti-social when someone asks for a spot or offers one.

It doesn't mean you're anti-social if you don't wanna be interrupted when
working out.

>I'm not opposed to asking a young lady to join me for supper. My workout
comes
>first, though.

You're not opposed to pretending to be working out while you wait for the
right moment to make your move on a woman. Why do you have to come to gyms
to get chicks? If you wanna meet new people and flirt, go to a club.

>Gym women are healthier and share my same values.

Since you both are in the gym, it shows that there are things in common. So,
that makes it easier for you to approach women and allure them into your
web. That's a predator mentality.

>Besides, it's cheaper since I'm already a member and paid up.

You simply go to gym hoping to get lucky. You think, since you paid money to
work out in the gym, you might as well try to see if you get lucky with any
lady. You're a hustler.

>> I understand that socializing is a big problem in the US as people are
very
>> busy with work, school or other things to find enough time to socialize
as
>> much as they want to.

>It's not a problem here,

Is that why you use gyms for socializing and flirting?

>except to uptight, anti-social foreigners
>and/or disillusioned immigrants.

Then you must be one of them. ;-)

>Be honest with yourself. You're not happy here.

Because I don't agree with you? I couldn't be happier because schmucks like
you are not all that many in this country. ;-)

>> It's not like there are millions of possible workout routines.

>From your original post I linked above:
>I am following the set of exercise programs in "The New
>Encyclopedia of Modern Bodybuilding" by Arnold Schwarzenegger.

It doesn't change the fact that there are not millions of possible workout
routines.
I mix his workout schedule with mine.

>Can you quantify "substantial"?

A couple of inches...

>> It only applies to people like you monkeying around in the gym, trying to
>> pick up chicks rather than being serious and committed to working out.

>They're NOT mutually exclusive.

Stop fooling yourself.

>> I got that from you.

>No, you make it up as you go along.

That's what you think.

>Remember, I'm the one who likes the young ladies.

Is that why you turn into a hustler in the gym?

>You don't want them in the same room with you.

Not at all! Anybody's presence is fine with me as long as I am not
distracted or drawn into conversation while I work out. There's an
appropriate time and place for flirting. My priorities are not below the
waist as yours. Unlike you, I go to gym to work out.

David Cohen
July 27th 03, 05:05 AM
Art, you are one sly dog! By careful response and questioning, you
have gotten enough material out of Moron Atici, in just this one post,
to warrant IOM nomination, if not assure a win. I am humbled by your
skill.

David
--
"This is the worse forum alive."- kev2112

"Ryan Atici" > wrote in message
...
> >Almost all of the definitions of sourness that I've seen are
related to
> taste.
> >None of them seem relevant. How can I tell when my muscles are
"sour"?
>
> My mind was busy with something else as I was typing the word. It
was just
> an honest mistake.
>
> As for how you can tell if your muscles are "sour" or not, work out
to
> fatigue first, then start licking your muscles, if you feel any sour
taste,
> that's how you can tell.
>
> >"Soreness," by the way, is a poor indicator of how good a workout
is
> because
> >it be caused by muscle, tendon, and/or ligament damage. Tendon
damage
> >does NOT mean that the workout was good.
>
> If you're smart enough with your workout routine, all you get it
muscle
> soreness, and that is a good indication.
>
> >The fat gets a workout? I've never heard this before.
>
> Probably you need to read more.
>
> >You said that eggs have a 100% protein rating. According to the
USDA,
> >100 grams of whole eggs have 12.58 grams of protein (as well as
1.12 grams
> >of carbohydrates, 10.61 grams of fat, and 74.62 grams of water).
100 grams
> >of egg whites have 10.52 grams of protein (and 1.03 grams of
carbohydrates
> >and 87.81 grams of water).
>
> The rate of 100 percent protein indicates that the source of food is
pure
> protein.
>
> >> Heavy workout schedule consists of sets of reps with minimum
pause and
> >> gradual weight increase in between reps. Once you get your heart
pounding
> >> like crazy, you keep it pounding like crazy till the end of your
workout.
> >>
> >> Through the first a few sets of reps, I don't pause at all. Then
after
> each
> >> set of reps, I pause only 5 seconds for the first part of the 15
minute
> long
> >> workout. During the second part of the 15 minute workout, I only
pause 10
> >> seconds in between each set of reps. I get so exhausted I can
barely
> raise a
> >> cup of water without my hand shaking uncontrollably.
> >>
> >> The ordinary workout routine lacks all of the above.
>
> >And if you were to lift the same amount of weight but wait longer
between
> >each set, how would that affect the amount of calories you burn?
>
> If you're referring to my workout routine, it doesn't matter. The
difference
> between 5 seconds and 10 seconds barely matters. Even the rate your
heart
> beats doesn't change. We're not talking about minutes of difference.
It is
> just another 5 seconds.
>
> After such intense workout, I am allowing 10 seconds of rest in
between reps
> so that I can keep working out as intense as the first part of my
routine.
>
> >Last I heard, pro male bodybuilders get closer to 6% than 12%.
>
> You need to hear better.
>
> >If I need carbohydrates for fuel, what happens if I don't eat any?
>
> That means you don't have fuel ready. ;-)
>
> >How much can it absorb at one time?
>
> You need to do some reading on that for your self-satisfaction.
>
> >How does extra protein stress the kidney? Do you have any medical
studies
> >showing this?
>
> Again, you need to read the medical studies for self-satisfaction.
>
> >So if someone who is fat wants to lose weight, they need to
exercise? Just
> >going on a diet isn't enough?
>
> Yep, you can't lose all the fat just by cutting down on food. If
you're a
> habitual eater, you lose some here and there to certain degree just
by going
> on a diet. At some point, even though you stop eating, you can't
lose any
> more weight.
>
> >What do you mean by "build his body"? Add muscle? Add a lot of
> >muscle? How much?
>
> Can you build body without adding muscle? I know where you're going
with all
> these questions. I am just playing along with you.
>
> >I haven't had alcohol for 10 years, so that doesn't help me.
>
> It helps those who drink.
>
> >How do I determine what type of metabolism I have and what kind of
diet
> >I need?
>
> It is all about knowing yourself. If you're falling short on that,
go to a
> doctor.
>
> >Those look like they are all for the abs.
>
> You asked me what you should do if you had a big stomach. That's
what you
> have to do.
>
> >Does that mean doing bench presses, squats, leg presses, triceps
push
> downs, and bicep
> >curls won't help lose weight, or that they wouldn't help me lose
fat from
> my abs?
>
> As you do those workout routines, you sure lose calories as you
particularly
> develop your abs.
>
>

David Cohen
July 27th 03, 05:05 AM
Art, you are one sly dog! By careful response and questioning, you
have gotten enough material out of Moron Atici, in just this one post,
to warrant IOM nomination, if not assure a win. I am humbled by your
skill.

David
--
"This is the worse forum alive."- kev2112

"Ryan Atici" > wrote in message
...
> >Almost all of the definitions of sourness that I've seen are
related to
> taste.
> >None of them seem relevant. How can I tell when my muscles are
"sour"?
>
> My mind was busy with something else as I was typing the word. It
was just
> an honest mistake.
>
> As for how you can tell if your muscles are "sour" or not, work out
to
> fatigue first, then start licking your muscles, if you feel any sour
taste,
> that's how you can tell.
>
> >"Soreness," by the way, is a poor indicator of how good a workout
is
> because
> >it be caused by muscle, tendon, and/or ligament damage. Tendon
damage
> >does NOT mean that the workout was good.
>
> If you're smart enough with your workout routine, all you get it
muscle
> soreness, and that is a good indication.
>
> >The fat gets a workout? I've never heard this before.
>
> Probably you need to read more.
>
> >You said that eggs have a 100% protein rating. According to the
USDA,
> >100 grams of whole eggs have 12.58 grams of protein (as well as
1.12 grams
> >of carbohydrates, 10.61 grams of fat, and 74.62 grams of water).
100 grams
> >of egg whites have 10.52 grams of protein (and 1.03 grams of
carbohydrates
> >and 87.81 grams of water).
>
> The rate of 100 percent protein indicates that the source of food is
pure
> protein.
>
> >> Heavy workout schedule consists of sets of reps with minimum
pause and
> >> gradual weight increase in between reps. Once you get your heart
pounding
> >> like crazy, you keep it pounding like crazy till the end of your
workout.
> >>
> >> Through the first a few sets of reps, I don't pause at all. Then
after
> each
> >> set of reps, I pause only 5 seconds for the first part of the 15
minute
> long
> >> workout. During the second part of the 15 minute workout, I only
pause 10
> >> seconds in between each set of reps. I get so exhausted I can
barely
> raise a
> >> cup of water without my hand shaking uncontrollably.
> >>
> >> The ordinary workout routine lacks all of the above.
>
> >And if you were to lift the same amount of weight but wait longer
between
> >each set, how would that affect the amount of calories you burn?
>
> If you're referring to my workout routine, it doesn't matter. The
difference
> between 5 seconds and 10 seconds barely matters. Even the rate your
heart
> beats doesn't change. We're not talking about minutes of difference.
It is
> just another 5 seconds.
>
> After such intense workout, I am allowing 10 seconds of rest in
between reps
> so that I can keep working out as intense as the first part of my
routine.
>
> >Last I heard, pro male bodybuilders get closer to 6% than 12%.
>
> You need to hear better.
>
> >If I need carbohydrates for fuel, what happens if I don't eat any?
>
> That means you don't have fuel ready. ;-)
>
> >How much can it absorb at one time?
>
> You need to do some reading on that for your self-satisfaction.
>
> >How does extra protein stress the kidney? Do you have any medical
studies
> >showing this?
>
> Again, you need to read the medical studies for self-satisfaction.
>
> >So if someone who is fat wants to lose weight, they need to
exercise? Just
> >going on a diet isn't enough?
>
> Yep, you can't lose all the fat just by cutting down on food. If
you're a
> habitual eater, you lose some here and there to certain degree just
by going
> on a diet. At some point, even though you stop eating, you can't
lose any
> more weight.
>
> >What do you mean by "build his body"? Add muscle? Add a lot of
> >muscle? How much?
>
> Can you build body without adding muscle? I know where you're going
with all
> these questions. I am just playing along with you.
>
> >I haven't had alcohol for 10 years, so that doesn't help me.
>
> It helps those who drink.
>
> >How do I determine what type of metabolism I have and what kind of
diet
> >I need?
>
> It is all about knowing yourself. If you're falling short on that,
go to a
> doctor.
>
> >Those look like they are all for the abs.
>
> You asked me what you should do if you had a big stomach. That's
what you
> have to do.
>
> >Does that mean doing bench presses, squats, leg presses, triceps
push
> downs, and bicep
> >curls won't help lose weight, or that they wouldn't help me lose
fat from
> my abs?
>
> As you do those workout routines, you sure lose calories as you
particularly
> develop your abs.
>
>

Art S
July 27th 03, 07:27 AM
<alt.sport.bodybuilding removed from news groups>

"David Cohen" > wrote in message
thlink.net...
> Art, you are one sly dog! By careful response and questioning, you
> have gotten enough material out of Moron Atici, in just this one post,
> to warrant IOM nomination, if not assure a win. I am humbled by your
> skill.
>
> David

Hmm. Somehow I get the feeling you are tired of reading his posts...
(I'm kinda tired of reading them myself. I've been mulling over whether
or not I wanted to reply to his last post for over an hour. That or ask
for a translator... his posts are getting harder to read. "Sourness" was
just a typo? I'm afraid to count how many times he used the word.)

In any case, how would you like to write up the nomination? I haven't
seen you show what you are capable of for a while now.

Art

Art S
July 27th 03, 07:27 AM
<alt.sport.bodybuilding removed from news groups>

"David Cohen" > wrote in message
thlink.net...
> Art, you are one sly dog! By careful response and questioning, you
> have gotten enough material out of Moron Atici, in just this one post,
> to warrant IOM nomination, if not assure a win. I am humbled by your
> skill.
>
> David

Hmm. Somehow I get the feeling you are tired of reading his posts...
(I'm kinda tired of reading them myself. I've been mulling over whether
or not I wanted to reply to his last post for over an hour. That or ask
for a translator... his posts are getting harder to read. "Sourness" was
just a typo? I'm afraid to count how many times he used the word.)

In any case, how would you like to write up the nomination? I haven't
seen you show what you are capable of for a while now.

Art

Lyle McDonald
July 27th 03, 03:59 PM
Art S wrote:
>
> <alt.sport.bodybuilding removed from news groups>
>
> "David Cohen" > wrote in message
> thlink.net...
> > Art, you are one sly dog! By careful response and questioning, you
> > have gotten enough material out of Moron Atici, in just this one post,
> > to warrant IOM nomination, if not assure a win. I am humbled by your
> > skill.
> >
> > David
>
> Hmm. Somehow I get the feeling you are tired of reading his posts...
> (I'm kinda tired of reading them myself. I've been mulling over whether
> or not I wanted to reply to his last post for over an hour. That or ask
> for a translator... his posts are getting harder to read. "Sourness" was
> just a typo? I'm afraid to count how many times he used the word.)

Lactic acid (like any acid) is sour.
Since weight training generates lactic acid, it causes muscular sourness.

That's be my best guess.

Lyle

Lyle McDonald
July 27th 03, 03:59 PM
Art S wrote:
>
> <alt.sport.bodybuilding removed from news groups>
>
> "David Cohen" > wrote in message
> thlink.net...
> > Art, you are one sly dog! By careful response and questioning, you
> > have gotten enough material out of Moron Atici, in just this one post,
> > to warrant IOM nomination, if not assure a win. I am humbled by your
> > skill.
> >
> > David
>
> Hmm. Somehow I get the feeling you are tired of reading his posts...
> (I'm kinda tired of reading them myself. I've been mulling over whether
> or not I wanted to reply to his last post for over an hour. That or ask
> for a translator... his posts are getting harder to read. "Sourness" was
> just a typo? I'm afraid to count how many times he used the word.)

Lactic acid (like any acid) is sour.
Since weight training generates lactic acid, it causes muscular sourness.

That's be my best guess.

Lyle

David Cohen
July 28th 03, 09:04 AM
"Ryan Atici" > wrote
> >Art, you are one sly dog! By careful response and questioning, you
> >have gotten enough material out of Moron Atici,
>
> Just look at the mirror to see a real moron.
>
> I feel like another question coming from Art asking what a mirror
is... ;-)
>
> >in just this one post, to warrant IOM nomination, if not assure a
win.
>
> That's yours to keep.
>
> >I am humbled by your skill.
>
> I don't call that a skill when a person is led on, and strung along.
;-)

Riiiight...you didn't really mean all the idiotic nonsense you
spouted. You were just stringing Art along.

Interesting defense. In an "OJ didn't do it, it was Columbian drug
dealers" sort of way.

David

David Cohen
July 28th 03, 09:04 AM
"Ryan Atici" > wrote
> >Art, you are one sly dog! By careful response and questioning, you
> >have gotten enough material out of Moron Atici,
>
> Just look at the mirror to see a real moron.
>
> I feel like another question coming from Art asking what a mirror
is... ;-)
>
> >in just this one post, to warrant IOM nomination, if not assure a
win.
>
> That's yours to keep.
>
> >I am humbled by your skill.
>
> I don't call that a skill when a person is led on, and strung along.
;-)

Riiiight...you didn't really mean all the idiotic nonsense you
spouted. You were just stringing Art along.

Interesting defense. In an "OJ didn't do it, it was Columbian drug
dealers" sort of way.

David

Wayne S. Hill
July 28th 03, 02:45 PM
David Cohen wrote:

> Art, you are one sly dog! By careful response and
> questioning, you have gotten enough material out of Moron
> Atici, in just this one post, to warrant IOM nomination, if
> not assure a win. I am humbled by your skill.
>
> David

Thanks for pointing out this thread, David. I would have missed
it otherwise, much to my detriment. I think Art gets the IBM
("idiot baiter of the month") award this month.

--
-Wayne

Wayne S. Hill
July 28th 03, 02:45 PM
David Cohen wrote:

> Art, you are one sly dog! By careful response and
> questioning, you have gotten enough material out of Moron
> Atici, in just this one post, to warrant IOM nomination, if
> not assure a win. I am humbled by your skill.
>
> David

Thanks for pointing out this thread, David. I would have missed
it otherwise, much to my detriment. I think Art gets the IBM
("idiot baiter of the month") award this month.

--
-Wayne

Donovan Rebbechi
July 28th 03, 03:45 PM
In article >, Ryan Atici wrote:
>>Art, you are one sly dog! By careful response and questioning, you
>>have gotten enough material out of Moron Atici,
>
> Just look at the mirror to see a real moron.
>
> I feel like another question coming from Art asking what a mirror is... ;-)
>
>>in just this one post, to warrant IOM nomination, if not assure a win.
>
> That's yours to keep.

You know, I'd suggest you write an IOM nomination post for David. Most of the
stuff you posted is well-known in the fitness industry -- I don't think his
criticisms were reasonable. Why don't you write one for him, he'll write one
for you, and we'll let the voters decide.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Donovan Rebbechi
July 28th 03, 03:45 PM
In article >, Ryan Atici wrote:
>>Art, you are one sly dog! By careful response and questioning, you
>>have gotten enough material out of Moron Atici,
>
> Just look at the mirror to see a real moron.
>
> I feel like another question coming from Art asking what a mirror is... ;-)
>
>>in just this one post, to warrant IOM nomination, if not assure a win.
>
> That's yours to keep.

You know, I'd suggest you write an IOM nomination post for David. Most of the
stuff you posted is well-known in the fitness industry -- I don't think his
criticisms were reasonable. Why don't you write one for him, he'll write one
for you, and we'll let the voters decide.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Ryan Atici
July 28th 03, 08:25 PM
>Riiiight...you didn't really mean all the idiotic nonsense you
>spouted. You were just stringing Art along.

I provided some extra education on the side so that you guys wouldn't be
left behind. ;-)

>Interesting defense. In an "OJ didn't do it, it was Columbian drug
>dealers" sort of way.

No, in "you're an idiot who needs answers for simple questions" sort of
way... ;-)

Ryan Atici
July 28th 03, 08:25 PM
>Riiiight...you didn't really mean all the idiotic nonsense you
>spouted. You were just stringing Art along.

I provided some extra education on the side so that you guys wouldn't be
left behind. ;-)

>Interesting defense. In an "OJ didn't do it, it was Columbian drug
>dealers" sort of way.

No, in "you're an idiot who needs answers for simple questions" sort of
way... ;-)

Theresa
July 29th 03, 12:36 AM
> In response to questioning his assertion that soreness is a good
> indicator of workout effectiveness, Idiot states, " If you're smart
> enough with your workout routine, all you get it[sic] muscle soreness,
> and that is a good indication."

So the 160x9 set of squats I did last Monday did me a world of good but the
195 triple I did yesterday was useless. Darn.

> Idiot claims eggs have a "100% protein rating", persisting with his
> own terminology, despite being informed he is making up terms. When
> presented with the fact that eggs are not 100% protein, but have fat,
> water, and carbohydrates as well, Idiot states, "The rate of 100
> percent protein indicates that the source of food is pure protein."

Right, no fat in egg yolks.

> Idiot claims male professional bodybuilders achieve about 12% body
> fay. When informed by Art: "last I heard, pro male bodybuilders get
> closer to 6% than 12%", Idiot responds, "You need to hear better."

Didn't Clarence Bass claim to get under 3%?

> Idiot claims carbohydrates are required for muscle growth (not
> preferred, required), ignoring patients, dieters, and entire cultures
> whose nearly carb-free diet doesn't cause muscleless humans. Art asks:
> "if I need carbohydrates for fuel, what happens if I don't eat any?",
> and Idiot responds "That means you don't have fuel ready."

QED.

> Idiot claims that weight loss absolutely requires exercise (not
> stating it's the best way, but stating it's the only way), and states,
> "At some point, even though you stop eating, you can't lose any more
> weight."

Right, if you don't exercise or eat your metabolism falls to zero.
Breathing, circulation, et cetera are free.

> Idiot claims abdominal fat can be lost by spot-reducing exercises. Art
> asks what exercises to do to lose abdominal fat. Idiot responds,
> "Execute variety of different sets of Hip Raise, Kneeling Crunch,
> <snip long list of abdominal muscle exercises>". Art responds: "Those
> look like they are all for the abs. Does that mean doing bench
> presses,
> squats, leg presses, triceps push downs, and bicep curls won't help
> lose weight, or that they wouldn't help me lose fat from my abs?"
> Idiot states, "You asked me what you should do if you had a big
> stomach. That's what you have to do."

Insert great big sarcasm emoticon here.


--
Eventually you realize that trying to understand something that is
inherently irrational is a waste of time.
--Lyle McDonald, on humans

Theresa
July 29th 03, 12:36 AM
> In response to questioning his assertion that soreness is a good
> indicator of workout effectiveness, Idiot states, " If you're smart
> enough with your workout routine, all you get it[sic] muscle soreness,
> and that is a good indication."

So the 160x9 set of squats I did last Monday did me a world of good but the
195 triple I did yesterday was useless. Darn.

> Idiot claims eggs have a "100% protein rating", persisting with his
> own terminology, despite being informed he is making up terms. When
> presented with the fact that eggs are not 100% protein, but have fat,
> water, and carbohydrates as well, Idiot states, "The rate of 100
> percent protein indicates that the source of food is pure protein."

Right, no fat in egg yolks.

> Idiot claims male professional bodybuilders achieve about 12% body
> fay. When informed by Art: "last I heard, pro male bodybuilders get
> closer to 6% than 12%", Idiot responds, "You need to hear better."

Didn't Clarence Bass claim to get under 3%?

> Idiot claims carbohydrates are required for muscle growth (not
> preferred, required), ignoring patients, dieters, and entire cultures
> whose nearly carb-free diet doesn't cause muscleless humans. Art asks:
> "if I need carbohydrates for fuel, what happens if I don't eat any?",
> and Idiot responds "That means you don't have fuel ready."

QED.

> Idiot claims that weight loss absolutely requires exercise (not
> stating it's the best way, but stating it's the only way), and states,
> "At some point, even though you stop eating, you can't lose any more
> weight."

Right, if you don't exercise or eat your metabolism falls to zero.
Breathing, circulation, et cetera are free.

> Idiot claims abdominal fat can be lost by spot-reducing exercises. Art
> asks what exercises to do to lose abdominal fat. Idiot responds,
> "Execute variety of different sets of Hip Raise, Kneeling Crunch,
> <snip long list of abdominal muscle exercises>". Art responds: "Those
> look like they are all for the abs. Does that mean doing bench
> presses,
> squats, leg presses, triceps push downs, and bicep curls won't help
> lose weight, or that they wouldn't help me lose fat from my abs?"
> Idiot states, "You asked me what you should do if you had a big
> stomach. That's what you have to do."

Insert great big sarcasm emoticon here.


--
Eventually you realize that trying to understand something that is
inherently irrational is a waste of time.
--Lyle McDonald, on humans

Ryan Atici
July 29th 03, 12:39 AM
>Based on this one post only, I nominate Ryan Atici for Idiot of the
>Month. Please note this post of his is only the last in a series of
>posts, reiterating the same points, as follows. The full flavor of his
>idiocy is best appreciated by reviewing all his posts.

Since you lack common sense, you fail to understand even simple things. That
makes you the father of all idiots. ;-)

>In response to questioning his assertion that soreness is a good
>indicator of workout effectiveness, Idiot states, " If you're smart
>enough with your workout routine, all you get it[sic] muscle soreness,
>and that is a good indication."

Your lack of understanding proves that you're the best idiot that there is.

Art indicated that soreness might be caused by other factors that may
indicate muscle, tendon, and/or ligament damage. If you're smart enough with
your workout, you won't have any injury, but just muscle soreness which is a
good indication that shows that you had a good workout.

>Idiot claims eggs have a "100% protein rating", persisting with his
>own terminology, despite being informed he is making up terms. When
>presented with the fact that eggs are not 100% protein, but have fat,
>water, and carbohydrates as well, Idiot states, "The rate of 100
>percent protein indicates that the source of food is pure protein."

You're a dope. That's why you can't make any sense out of any simple
statement. The rate of 100 percent protein indicates that the source of food
is pure protein.

>Idiot claims male professional bodybuilders achieve about 12% body
>fay. When informed by Art: "last I heard, pro male bodybuilders get
>closer to 6% than 12%", Idiot responds, "You need to hear better."

You're an idiot. You can read, but can't understand anything from what you
read. That's the perfect proof of your idiocy. I didn't say that
professional bodybuilders achieve about 12 percent body fat. I said that
most bodybuilders have 12 percent body fat. If they want, they can achieve
better results than only 12 percent body fat.

I was making a simple point that even pro bodybuilders have some percentage
of body fat. Since you're an idiot, you don't get the point.

>Idiot claims carbohydrates are required for muscle growth (not
>preferred, required), ignoring patients, dieters, and entire cultures
>whose nearly carb-free diet doesn't cause muscleless humans.

Nope, you're misquoting, and talking out of your ass again. I never said
that carbohydrates are required for muscle growth.

Carbohydrates are needed for fuel whereas proteins are required for muscle
growth.

>Art asks: "if I need carbohydrates for fuel, what happens if I don't eat
any?",
>and Idiot responds "That means you don't have fuel ready."

Carbohydrates give you fuel for your workout. If you don't have
carbohydrates, that means you don't have fuel ready. I tried to make it as
simple as I could for you to understand, but you failed to understand again.
What an idiot you are...!?!?

>Idiot claims that weight loss absolutely requires exercise (not
>stating it's the best way, but stating it's the only way), and states,
>"At some point, even though you stop eating, you can't lose any more
>weight."

Idiot, read again what I said. I said that you can't lose ***all the fat***
just by cutting down on food. If you're a habitual eater, you lose some here
and there to certain degree just by going on a diet. At some point, even
though you stop eating, you can't lose any more weight. That's a simple
fact, but an idiot like you can't understand it.

>Idiot claims abdominal fat can be lost by spot-reducing exercises. Art
>asks what exercises to do to lose abdominal fat. Idiot responds,
>"Execute variety of different sets of Hip Raise, Kneeling Crunch,
><snip long list of abdominal muscle exercises>".

It is obvious that you have no experience in those workout routines.

>Art responds: "Those look like they are all for the abs. Does that mean
doing bench
>presses, squats, leg presses, triceps push downs, and bicep curls won't
help
>lose weight, or that they wouldn't help me lose fat from my abs?"
>Idiot states, "You asked me what you should do if you had a big
>stomach. That's what you have to do."

You're a clueless idiot. You're so clueless that you don't even know that
nothing will help you get rip of your fat stomach as much as abs workout
routines. You need serious help.

>I look forward to Idiot Atici's IOM nomination post for me. Please
>remember it must deal with on-topic areas. I can be a true idiot in
>numerous off-topic conversations.

Regardless, you're a true idiot in every aspect of life. ;-)

Ryan Atici
July 29th 03, 12:39 AM
>Based on this one post only, I nominate Ryan Atici for Idiot of the
>Month. Please note this post of his is only the last in a series of
>posts, reiterating the same points, as follows. The full flavor of his
>idiocy is best appreciated by reviewing all his posts.

Since you lack common sense, you fail to understand even simple things. That
makes you the father of all idiots. ;-)

>In response to questioning his assertion that soreness is a good
>indicator of workout effectiveness, Idiot states, " If you're smart
>enough with your workout routine, all you get it[sic] muscle soreness,
>and that is a good indication."

Your lack of understanding proves that you're the best idiot that there is.

Art indicated that soreness might be caused by other factors that may
indicate muscle, tendon, and/or ligament damage. If you're smart enough with
your workout, you won't have any injury, but just muscle soreness which is a
good indication that shows that you had a good workout.

>Idiot claims eggs have a "100% protein rating", persisting with his
>own terminology, despite being informed he is making up terms. When
>presented with the fact that eggs are not 100% protein, but have fat,
>water, and carbohydrates as well, Idiot states, "The rate of 100
>percent protein indicates that the source of food is pure protein."

You're a dope. That's why you can't make any sense out of any simple
statement. The rate of 100 percent protein indicates that the source of food
is pure protein.

>Idiot claims male professional bodybuilders achieve about 12% body
>fay. When informed by Art: "last I heard, pro male bodybuilders get
>closer to 6% than 12%", Idiot responds, "You need to hear better."

You're an idiot. You can read, but can't understand anything from what you
read. That's the perfect proof of your idiocy. I didn't say that
professional bodybuilders achieve about 12 percent body fat. I said that
most bodybuilders have 12 percent body fat. If they want, they can achieve
better results than only 12 percent body fat.

I was making a simple point that even pro bodybuilders have some percentage
of body fat. Since you're an idiot, you don't get the point.

>Idiot claims carbohydrates are required for muscle growth (not
>preferred, required), ignoring patients, dieters, and entire cultures
>whose nearly carb-free diet doesn't cause muscleless humans.

Nope, you're misquoting, and talking out of your ass again. I never said
that carbohydrates are required for muscle growth.

Carbohydrates are needed for fuel whereas proteins are required for muscle
growth.

>Art asks: "if I need carbohydrates for fuel, what happens if I don't eat
any?",
>and Idiot responds "That means you don't have fuel ready."

Carbohydrates give you fuel for your workout. If you don't have
carbohydrates, that means you don't have fuel ready. I tried to make it as
simple as I could for you to understand, but you failed to understand again.
What an idiot you are...!?!?

>Idiot claims that weight loss absolutely requires exercise (not
>stating it's the best way, but stating it's the only way), and states,
>"At some point, even though you stop eating, you can't lose any more
>weight."

Idiot, read again what I said. I said that you can't lose ***all the fat***
just by cutting down on food. If you're a habitual eater, you lose some here
and there to certain degree just by going on a diet. At some point, even
though you stop eating, you can't lose any more weight. That's a simple
fact, but an idiot like you can't understand it.

>Idiot claims abdominal fat can be lost by spot-reducing exercises. Art
>asks what exercises to do to lose abdominal fat. Idiot responds,
>"Execute variety of different sets of Hip Raise, Kneeling Crunch,
><snip long list of abdominal muscle exercises>".

It is obvious that you have no experience in those workout routines.

>Art responds: "Those look like they are all for the abs. Does that mean
doing bench
>presses, squats, leg presses, triceps push downs, and bicep curls won't
help
>lose weight, or that they wouldn't help me lose fat from my abs?"
>Idiot states, "You asked me what you should do if you had a big
>stomach. That's what you have to do."

You're a clueless idiot. You're so clueless that you don't even know that
nothing will help you get rip of your fat stomach as much as abs workout
routines. You need serious help.

>I look forward to Idiot Atici's IOM nomination post for me. Please
>remember it must deal with on-topic areas. I can be a true idiot in
>numerous off-topic conversations.

Regardless, you're a true idiot in every aspect of life. ;-)

David Cohen
July 29th 03, 12:53 AM
"Ryan Atici" > wrote
> >Your answers may have been obvious to you, but were amusingly
> >RONG ($1 to KH) to us.
>
> It is because your IQ is not any higher than David's. ;-)

I sure you have hurt Dr. Hill's feelings.

BWAHAHAhahahahaha...

Repeat 5 times: I we Todd did. I sofa king we Todd did.

David


>
> >It's time you started defensively back-pedaling on some of this
> >stuff, only to tighten the web more and more with new idiocies.
>
> It is not defensive backpedaling, but just a simple technique of
putting
> things in simplest terms for idiots like you to finally understand
things.
>
> >> As for you and your crew, kissing ass is what you guys do
> >> best. Keep up the good work! ;-)
>
> >Gee, talking like that, you might hurt somebody's feelings.
> >Well, maybe not.
>
> Who needs a toilet paper as long as there are people like you
around...!?!
> ;-)
>
>

David Cohen
July 29th 03, 12:53 AM
"Ryan Atici" > wrote
> >Your answers may have been obvious to you, but were amusingly
> >RONG ($1 to KH) to us.
>
> It is because your IQ is not any higher than David's. ;-)

I sure you have hurt Dr. Hill's feelings.

BWAHAHAhahahahaha...

Repeat 5 times: I we Todd did. I sofa king we Todd did.

David


>
> >It's time you started defensively back-pedaling on some of this
> >stuff, only to tighten the web more and more with new idiocies.
>
> It is not defensive backpedaling, but just a simple technique of
putting
> things in simplest terms for idiots like you to finally understand
things.
>
> >> As for you and your crew, kissing ass is what you guys do
> >> best. Keep up the good work! ;-)
>
> >Gee, talking like that, you might hurt somebody's feelings.
> >Well, maybe not.
>
> Who needs a toilet paper as long as there are people like you
around...!?!
> ;-)
>
>

Ryan Atici
July 29th 03, 12:59 AM
>>Idiots like David don't even know that.

>Right. And one of the criteria for IOM is that the candidate must post
content
>which is widely known to be wrong, which means that the IOM elections would
>be well served by a well-written nomination post written by yourself, which
>summarises the glaring errors on David's part.

David, himself, glares a lot brighter than his idiotic responses. The guy is
a walking error. ;-)

>> Obviously he proved his own idiocy with his responses.

>Exactly! Provided a proper nomination is written, the outcome of the IOM
for
>this month is inevitable.

While he's around, nobody stands a chance.

>Don't forget to put "IOM nomination" in the
>subject line, and include some choice quotes.

How about this for a subject line, "Wayne and David search nomination with
their tongues up in Art's ass"? ;-)

>Cheers,

Likewise...

Ryan Atici
July 29th 03, 12:59 AM
>>Idiots like David don't even know that.

>Right. And one of the criteria for IOM is that the candidate must post
content
>which is widely known to be wrong, which means that the IOM elections would
>be well served by a well-written nomination post written by yourself, which
>summarises the glaring errors on David's part.

David, himself, glares a lot brighter than his idiotic responses. The guy is
a walking error. ;-)

>> Obviously he proved his own idiocy with his responses.

>Exactly! Provided a proper nomination is written, the outcome of the IOM
for
>this month is inevitable.

While he's around, nobody stands a chance.

>Don't forget to put "IOM nomination" in the
>subject line, and include some choice quotes.

How about this for a subject line, "Wayne and David search nomination with
their tongues up in Art's ass"? ;-)

>Cheers,

Likewise...

Ryan Atici
July 29th 03, 01:03 AM
>I sure you have hurt Dr. Hill's feelings.
>BWAHAHAhahahahaha...
>
>Repeat 5 times: I we Todd did. I sofa king we Todd did.
>
>David

Whatever you're smoking, go easy on that.

Ryan Atici
July 29th 03, 01:03 AM
>I sure you have hurt Dr. Hill's feelings.
>BWAHAHAhahahahaha...
>
>Repeat 5 times: I we Todd did. I sofa king we Todd did.
>
>David

Whatever you're smoking, go easy on that.

Keith Hobman
July 29th 03, 01:54 AM
In article >,
"Ryan Atici" > wrote:

> >Based on this one post only, I nominate Ryan Atici for Idiot of the
> >Month. Please note this post of his is only the last in a series of
> >posts, reiterating the same points, as follows. The full flavor of his
> >idiocy is best appreciated by reviewing all his posts.
>
> Since you lack common sense, you fail to understand even simple things. That
> makes you the father of all idiots. ;-)
>
> >In response to questioning his assertion that soreness is a good
> >indicator of workout effectiveness, Idiot states, " If you're smart
> >enough with your workout routine, all you get it[sic] muscle soreness,
> >and that is a good indication."
>
> Your lack of understanding proves that you're the best idiot that there is.
>
> Art indicated that soreness might be caused by other factors that may
> indicate muscle, tendon, and/or ligament damage. If you're smart enough with
> your workout, you won't have any injury, but just muscle soreness which is a
> good indication that shows that you had a good workout.
>
> >Idiot claims eggs have a "100% protein rating", persisting with his
> >own terminology, despite being informed he is making up terms. When
> >presented with the fact that eggs are not 100% protein, but have fat,
> >water, and carbohydrates as well, Idiot states, "The rate of 100
> >percent protein indicates that the source of food is pure protein."
>
> You're a dope. That's why you can't make any sense out of any simple
> statement. The rate of 100 percent protein indicates that the source of food
> is pure protein.
>
> >Idiot claims male professional bodybuilders achieve about 12% body
> >fay. When informed by Art: "last I heard, pro male bodybuilders get
> >closer to 6% than 12%", Idiot responds, "You need to hear better."
>
> You're an idiot. You can read, but can't understand anything from what you
> read. That's the perfect proof of your idiocy. I didn't say that
> professional bodybuilders achieve about 12 percent body fat. I said that
> most bodybuilders have 12 percent body fat. If they want, they can achieve
> better results than only 12 percent body fat.
>
> I was making a simple point that even pro bodybuilders have some percentage
> of body fat. Since you're an idiot, you don't get the point.
>
> >Idiot claims carbohydrates are required for muscle growth (not
> >preferred, required), ignoring patients, dieters, and entire cultures
> >whose nearly carb-free diet doesn't cause muscleless humans.
>
> Nope, you're misquoting, and talking out of your ass again. I never said
> that carbohydrates are required for muscle growth.
>
> Carbohydrates are needed for fuel whereas proteins are required for muscle
> growth.
>
> >Art asks: "if I need carbohydrates for fuel, what happens if I don't eat
> any?",
> >and Idiot responds "That means you don't have fuel ready."
>
> Carbohydrates give you fuel for your workout. If you don't have
> carbohydrates, that means you don't have fuel ready. I tried to make it as
> simple as I could for you to understand, but you failed to understand again.
> What an idiot you are...!?!?
>
> >Idiot claims that weight loss absolutely requires exercise (not
> >stating it's the best way, but stating it's the only way), and states,
> >"At some point, even though you stop eating, you can't lose any more
> >weight."
>
> Idiot, read again what I said. I said that you can't lose ***all the fat***
> just by cutting down on food. If you're a habitual eater, you lose some here
> and there to certain degree just by going on a diet. At some point, even
> though you stop eating, you can't lose any more weight. That's a simple
> fact, but an idiot like you can't understand it.
>
> >Idiot claims abdominal fat can be lost by spot-reducing exercises. Art
> >asks what exercises to do to lose abdominal fat. Idiot responds,
> >"Execute variety of different sets of Hip Raise, Kneeling Crunch,
> ><snip long list of abdominal muscle exercises>".
>
> It is obvious that you have no experience in those workout routines.
>
> >Art responds: "Those look like they are all for the abs. Does that mean
> doing bench
> >presses, squats, leg presses, triceps push downs, and bicep curls won't
> help
> >lose weight, or that they wouldn't help me lose fat from my abs?"
> >Idiot states, "You asked me what you should do if you had a big
> >stomach. That's what you have to do."
>
> You're a clueless idiot. You're so clueless that you don't even know that
> nothing will help you get rip of your fat stomach as much as abs workout
> routines. You need serious help.
>
> >I look forward to Idiot Atici's IOM nomination post for me. Please
> >remember it must deal with on-topic areas. I can be a true idiot in
> >numerous off-topic conversations.
>
> Regardless, you're a true idiot in every aspect of life. ;-)
>
>

This is good stuff Ryan. Please continue to refute David's arguments so
I can make an informed decision.

Keith Hobman
July 29th 03, 01:54 AM
In article >,
"Ryan Atici" > wrote:

> >Based on this one post only, I nominate Ryan Atici for Idiot of the
> >Month. Please note this post of his is only the last in a series of
> >posts, reiterating the same points, as follows. The full flavor of his
> >idiocy is best appreciated by reviewing all his posts.
>
> Since you lack common sense, you fail to understand even simple things. That
> makes you the father of all idiots. ;-)
>
> >In response to questioning his assertion that soreness is a good
> >indicator of workout effectiveness, Idiot states, " If you're smart
> >enough with your workout routine, all you get it[sic] muscle soreness,
> >and that is a good indication."
>
> Your lack of understanding proves that you're the best idiot that there is.
>
> Art indicated that soreness might be caused by other factors that may
> indicate muscle, tendon, and/or ligament damage. If you're smart enough with
> your workout, you won't have any injury, but just muscle soreness which is a
> good indication that shows that you had a good workout.
>
> >Idiot claims eggs have a "100% protein rating", persisting with his
> >own terminology, despite being informed he is making up terms. When
> >presented with the fact that eggs are not 100% protein, but have fat,
> >water, and carbohydrates as well, Idiot states, "The rate of 100
> >percent protein indicates that the source of food is pure protein."
>
> You're a dope. That's why you can't make any sense out of any simple
> statement. The rate of 100 percent protein indicates that the source of food
> is pure protein.
>
> >Idiot claims male professional bodybuilders achieve about 12% body
> >fay. When informed by Art: "last I heard, pro male bodybuilders get
> >closer to 6% than 12%", Idiot responds, "You need to hear better."
>
> You're an idiot. You can read, but can't understand anything from what you
> read. That's the perfect proof of your idiocy. I didn't say that
> professional bodybuilders achieve about 12 percent body fat. I said that
> most bodybuilders have 12 percent body fat. If they want, they can achieve
> better results than only 12 percent body fat.
>
> I was making a simple point that even pro bodybuilders have some percentage
> of body fat. Since you're an idiot, you don't get the point.
>
> >Idiot claims carbohydrates are required for muscle growth (not
> >preferred, required), ignoring patients, dieters, and entire cultures
> >whose nearly carb-free diet doesn't cause muscleless humans.
>
> Nope, you're misquoting, and talking out of your ass again. I never said
> that carbohydrates are required for muscle growth.
>
> Carbohydrates are needed for fuel whereas proteins are required for muscle
> growth.
>
> >Art asks: "if I need carbohydrates for fuel, what happens if I don't eat
> any?",
> >and Idiot responds "That means you don't have fuel ready."
>
> Carbohydrates give you fuel for your workout. If you don't have
> carbohydrates, that means you don't have fuel ready. I tried to make it as
> simple as I could for you to understand, but you failed to understand again.
> What an idiot you are...!?!?
>
> >Idiot claims that weight loss absolutely requires exercise (not
> >stating it's the best way, but stating it's the only way), and states,
> >"At some point, even though you stop eating, you can't lose any more
> >weight."
>
> Idiot, read again what I said. I said that you can't lose ***all the fat***
> just by cutting down on food. If you're a habitual eater, you lose some here
> and there to certain degree just by going on a diet. At some point, even
> though you stop eating, you can't lose any more weight. That's a simple
> fact, but an idiot like you can't understand it.
>
> >Idiot claims abdominal fat can be lost by spot-reducing exercises. Art
> >asks what exercises to do to lose abdominal fat. Idiot responds,
> >"Execute variety of different sets of Hip Raise, Kneeling Crunch,
> ><snip long list of abdominal muscle exercises>".
>
> It is obvious that you have no experience in those workout routines.
>
> >Art responds: "Those look like they are all for the abs. Does that mean
> doing bench
> >presses, squats, leg presses, triceps push downs, and bicep curls won't
> help
> >lose weight, or that they wouldn't help me lose fat from my abs?"
> >Idiot states, "You asked me what you should do if you had a big
> >stomach. That's what you have to do."
>
> You're a clueless idiot. You're so clueless that you don't even know that
> nothing will help you get rip of your fat stomach as much as abs workout
> routines. You need serious help.
>
> >I look forward to Idiot Atici's IOM nomination post for me. Please
> >remember it must deal with on-topic areas. I can be a true idiot in
> >numerous off-topic conversations.
>
> Regardless, you're a true idiot in every aspect of life. ;-)
>
>

This is good stuff Ryan. Please continue to refute David's arguments so
I can make an informed decision.

Wayne S. Hill
July 29th 03, 02:26 AM
Ryan Atici wrote:

>>Your answers may have been obvious to you, but were
>>amusingly RONG ($1 to KH) to us.
>
> It is because your IQ is not any higher than David's. ;-)

That is true. We both have IQ's of 156.

--
-Wayne

Wayne S. Hill
July 29th 03, 02:26 AM
Ryan Atici wrote:

>>Your answers may have been obvious to you, but were
>>amusingly RONG ($1 to KH) to us.
>
> It is because your IQ is not any higher than David's. ;-)

That is true. We both have IQ's of 156.

--
-Wayne

Donovan Rebbechi
July 29th 03, 02:38 AM
In article >, Ryan Atici wrote:

>>Don't forget to put "IOM nomination" in the
>>subject line, and include some choice quotes.
>
> How about this for a subject line, "Wayne and David search nomination with
> their tongues up in Art's ass"? ;-)

That's fine, as long as the intent is understood.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Donovan Rebbechi
July 29th 03, 02:38 AM
In article >, Ryan Atici wrote:

>>Don't forget to put "IOM nomination" in the
>>subject line, and include some choice quotes.
>
> How about this for a subject line, "Wayne and David search nomination with
> their tongues up in Art's ass"? ;-)

That's fine, as long as the intent is understood.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Wayne S. Hill
July 29th 03, 02:38 AM
Ryan Atici wrote:

<snip utter balderdash>

Your viewpoints are so completely unfounded, so contrary to vast
quantities of research, that even untrained, uneducated people on
the street know better. Thus, I find it hard to believe that
these are your actual beliefs.

--
-Wayne

waiting for the other shoe to drop

Wayne S. Hill
July 29th 03, 02:38 AM
Ryan Atici wrote:

<snip utter balderdash>

Your viewpoints are so completely unfounded, so contrary to vast
quantities of research, that even untrained, uneducated people on
the street know better. Thus, I find it hard to believe that
these are your actual beliefs.

--
-Wayne

waiting for the other shoe to drop

Wayne S. Hill
July 29th 03, 02:40 AM
Keith Hobman wrote:

> This is good stuff Ryan. Please continue to refute David's
> arguments so I can make an informed decision.

I think Krista said it best: "I am intrigued by your ideas, and
would like to subscribe to your newsletter."

These damned Canadians aren't so nice, after all.

--
-Wayne

Wayne S. Hill
July 29th 03, 02:40 AM
Keith Hobman wrote:

> This is good stuff Ryan. Please continue to refute David's
> arguments so I can make an informed decision.

I think Krista said it best: "I am intrigued by your ideas, and
would like to subscribe to your newsletter."

These damned Canadians aren't so nice, after all.

--
-Wayne

Robert Dorf
July 29th 03, 02:40 AM
On 29 Jul 2003 00:38:24 GMT, "Wayne S. Hill" > wrote:

>Ryan Atici wrote:
>
><snip utter balderdash>
>
>Your viewpoints are so completely unfounded, so contrary to vast
>quantities of research, that even untrained, uneducated people on
>the street know better. Thus, I find it hard to believe that
>these are your actual beliefs.

I figured that such a complete and obvious idiot could only be a
troll. On the other hand, g-man is sincere, so who knows?

Robert Dorf
July 29th 03, 02:40 AM
On 29 Jul 2003 00:38:24 GMT, "Wayne S. Hill" > wrote:

>Ryan Atici wrote:
>
><snip utter balderdash>
>
>Your viewpoints are so completely unfounded, so contrary to vast
>quantities of research, that even untrained, uneducated people on
>the street know better. Thus, I find it hard to believe that
>these are your actual beliefs.

I figured that such a complete and obvious idiot could only be a
troll. On the other hand, g-man is sincere, so who knows?

Bob Garrison
July 29th 03, 03:19 AM
"Ryan Atici" > wrote in message
...
> >Based on this one post only, I nominate Ryan Atici for Idiot of the
> >Month. Please note this post of his is only the last in a series of
> >posts, reiterating the same points, as follows. The full flavor of his
> >idiocy is best appreciated by reviewing all his posts.
>
> Since you lack common sense, you fail to understand even simple things.
That
> makes you the father of all idiots. ;-)
>
> >In response to questioning his assertion that soreness is a good
> >indicator of workout effectiveness, Idiot states, " If you're smart
> >enough with your workout routine, all you get it[sic] muscle soreness,
> >and that is a good indication."
>
> Your lack of understanding proves that you're the best idiot that there
is.
>
> Art indicated that soreness might be caused by other factors that may
> indicate muscle, tendon, and/or ligament damage. If you're smart enough
with
> your workout, you won't have any injury, but just muscle soreness which is
a
> good indication that shows that you had a good workout.
>
> >Idiot claims eggs have a "100% protein rating", persisting with his
> >own terminology, despite being informed he is making up terms. When
> >presented with the fact that eggs are not 100% protein, but have fat,
> >water, and carbohydrates as well, Idiot states, "The rate of 100
> >percent protein indicates that the source of food is pure protein."
>
> You're a dope. That's why you can't make any sense out of any simple
> statement. The rate of 100 percent protein indicates that the source of
food
> is pure protein.
>
> >Idiot claims male professional bodybuilders achieve about 12% body
> >fay. When informed by Art: "last I heard, pro male bodybuilders get
> >closer to 6% than 12%", Idiot responds, "You need to hear better."
>
> You're an idiot. You can read, but can't understand anything from what you
> read. That's the perfect proof of your idiocy. I didn't say that
> professional bodybuilders achieve about 12 percent body fat. I said that
> most bodybuilders have 12 percent body fat. If they want, they can achieve
> better results than only 12 percent body fat.
>
> I was making a simple point that even pro bodybuilders have some
percentage
> of body fat. Since you're an idiot, you don't get the point.
>
> >Idiot claims carbohydrates are required for muscle growth (not
> >preferred, required), ignoring patients, dieters, and entire cultures
> >whose nearly carb-free diet doesn't cause muscleless humans.
>
> Nope, you're misquoting, and talking out of your ass again. I never said
> that carbohydrates are required for muscle growth.
>
> Carbohydrates are needed for fuel whereas proteins are required for muscle
> growth.
>
> >Art asks: "if I need carbohydrates for fuel, what happens if I don't eat
> any?",
> >and Idiot responds "That means you don't have fuel ready."
>
> Carbohydrates give you fuel for your workout. If you don't have
> carbohydrates, that means you don't have fuel ready. I tried to make it as
> simple as I could for you to understand, but you failed to understand
again.
> What an idiot you are...!?!?
>
> >Idiot claims that weight loss absolutely requires exercise (not
> >stating it's the best way, but stating it's the only way), and states,
> >"At some point, even though you stop eating, you can't lose any more
> >weight."
>
> Idiot, read again what I said. I said that you can't lose ***all the
fat***
> just by cutting down on food. If you're a habitual eater, you lose some
here
> and there to certain degree just by going on a diet. At some point, even
> though you stop eating, you can't lose any more weight. That's a simple
> fact, but an idiot like you can't understand it.
>
> >Idiot claims abdominal fat can be lost by spot-reducing exercises. Art
> >asks what exercises to do to lose abdominal fat. Idiot responds,
> >"Execute variety of different sets of Hip Raise, Kneeling Crunch,
> ><snip long list of abdominal muscle exercises>".
>
> It is obvious that you have no experience in those workout routines.
>
> >Art responds: "Those look like they are all for the abs. Does that mean
> doing bench
> >presses, squats, leg presses, triceps push downs, and bicep curls won't
> help
> >lose weight, or that they wouldn't help me lose fat from my abs?"
> >Idiot states, "You asked me what you should do if you had a big
> >stomach. That's what you have to do."
>
> You're a clueless idiot. You're so clueless that you don't even know that
> nothing will help you get rip of your fat stomach as much as abs workout
> routines. You need serious help.
>
> >I look forward to Idiot Atici's IOM nomination post for me. Please
> >remember it must deal with on-topic areas. I can be a true idiot in
> >numerous off-topic conversations.
>
> Regardless, you're a true idiot in every aspect of life. ;-)
>
>

Atici must be a troll because I don't think it's possible for anyone to be
the total asshole he appears to be.

Bob Garrison
July 29th 03, 03:19 AM
"Ryan Atici" > wrote in message
...
> >Based on this one post only, I nominate Ryan Atici for Idiot of the
> >Month. Please note this post of his is only the last in a series of
> >posts, reiterating the same points, as follows. The full flavor of his
> >idiocy is best appreciated by reviewing all his posts.
>
> Since you lack common sense, you fail to understand even simple things.
That
> makes you the father of all idiots. ;-)
>
> >In response to questioning his assertion that soreness is a good
> >indicator of workout effectiveness, Idiot states, " If you're smart
> >enough with your workout routine, all you get it[sic] muscle soreness,
> >and that is a good indication."
>
> Your lack of understanding proves that you're the best idiot that there
is.
>
> Art indicated that soreness might be caused by other factors that may
> indicate muscle, tendon, and/or ligament damage. If you're smart enough
with
> your workout, you won't have any injury, but just muscle soreness which is
a
> good indication that shows that you had a good workout.
>
> >Idiot claims eggs have a "100% protein rating", persisting with his
> >own terminology, despite being informed he is making up terms. When
> >presented with the fact that eggs are not 100% protein, but have fat,
> >water, and carbohydrates as well, Idiot states, "The rate of 100
> >percent protein indicates that the source of food is pure protein."
>
> You're a dope. That's why you can't make any sense out of any simple
> statement. The rate of 100 percent protein indicates that the source of
food
> is pure protein.
>
> >Idiot claims male professional bodybuilders achieve about 12% body
> >fay. When informed by Art: "last I heard, pro male bodybuilders get
> >closer to 6% than 12%", Idiot responds, "You need to hear better."
>
> You're an idiot. You can read, but can't understand anything from what you
> read. That's the perfect proof of your idiocy. I didn't say that
> professional bodybuilders achieve about 12 percent body fat. I said that
> most bodybuilders have 12 percent body fat. If they want, they can achieve
> better results than only 12 percent body fat.
>
> I was making a simple point that even pro bodybuilders have some
percentage
> of body fat. Since you're an idiot, you don't get the point.
>
> >Idiot claims carbohydrates are required for muscle growth (not
> >preferred, required), ignoring patients, dieters, and entire cultures
> >whose nearly carb-free diet doesn't cause muscleless humans.
>
> Nope, you're misquoting, and talking out of your ass again. I never said
> that carbohydrates are required for muscle growth.
>
> Carbohydrates are needed for fuel whereas proteins are required for muscle
> growth.
>
> >Art asks: "if I need carbohydrates for fuel, what happens if I don't eat
> any?",
> >and Idiot responds "That means you don't have fuel ready."
>
> Carbohydrates give you fuel for your workout. If you don't have
> carbohydrates, that means you don't have fuel ready. I tried to make it as
> simple as I could for you to understand, but you failed to understand
again.
> What an idiot you are...!?!?
>
> >Idiot claims that weight loss absolutely requires exercise (not
> >stating it's the best way, but stating it's the only way), and states,
> >"At some point, even though you stop eating, you can't lose any more
> >weight."
>
> Idiot, read again what I said. I said that you can't lose ***all the
fat***
> just by cutting down on food. If you're a habitual eater, you lose some
here
> and there to certain degree just by going on a diet. At some point, even
> though you stop eating, you can't lose any more weight. That's a simple
> fact, but an idiot like you can't understand it.
>
> >Idiot claims abdominal fat can be lost by spot-reducing exercises. Art
> >asks what exercises to do to lose abdominal fat. Idiot responds,
> >"Execute variety of different sets of Hip Raise, Kneeling Crunch,
> ><snip long list of abdominal muscle exercises>".
>
> It is obvious that you have no experience in those workout routines.
>
> >Art responds: "Those look like they are all for the abs. Does that mean
> doing bench
> >presses, squats, leg presses, triceps push downs, and bicep curls won't
> help
> >lose weight, or that they wouldn't help me lose fat from my abs?"
> >Idiot states, "You asked me what you should do if you had a big
> >stomach. That's what you have to do."
>
> You're a clueless idiot. You're so clueless that you don't even know that
> nothing will help you get rip of your fat stomach as much as abs workout
> routines. You need serious help.
>
> >I look forward to Idiot Atici's IOM nomination post for me. Please
> >remember it must deal with on-topic areas. I can be a true idiot in
> >numerous off-topic conversations.
>
> Regardless, you're a true idiot in every aspect of life. ;-)
>
>

Atici must be a troll because I don't think it's possible for anyone to be
the total asshole he appears to be.

Ryan Atici
July 29th 03, 03:24 AM
>I figured that such a complete and obvious idiot could only be a
>troll.

Sounds like David and Wayne... ;-)

>On the other hand, g-man is sincere, so who knows?

Definitely you don't... ;-)

Ryan Atici
July 29th 03, 03:24 AM
>I figured that such a complete and obvious idiot could only be a
>troll.

Sounds like David and Wayne... ;-)

>On the other hand, g-man is sincere, so who knows?

Definitely you don't... ;-)

Ryan Atici
July 29th 03, 03:29 AM
>That is true. We both have IQ's of 156.

From the way you sound, your IQ must be even lower than George W. Bush's.
;-)

Ryan Atici
July 29th 03, 03:29 AM
>That is true. We both have IQ's of 156.

From the way you sound, your IQ must be even lower than George W. Bush's.
;-)

Theresa
July 29th 03, 03:41 AM
I killfiled Ryan pretty much right away.

On reflection, maybe I should've kept him. He's funny.

Theresa
July 29th 03, 03:41 AM
I killfiled Ryan pretty much right away.

On reflection, maybe I should've kept him. He's funny.

Lee Michaels
July 29th 03, 05:44 AM
"Ryan Atici" > wrote in message
...
> >Atici must be a troll because I don't think it's possible for anyone to
be
> >the total asshole he appears to be.
>
> Calling a person total asshole qualifies you to be bigger asshole as well
as
> a loser troll. ;-)
>
> Let's have a list of idiots.
>
> The top of the list is reserved for David, of course. ;-)
> 1- David Cohen
> 2- Xtrain13
> 3- Wayne S. (****) Hill
> 4- Bob Garrison
> 5- Art S.
> 6- Theresa
>
>

This guy may deserve greater honors than just a paltry idiot of the month.

Maybe Asshole of the Year. Or Ultimate Troll In Denial, or Raging Simpleton.

Ultimate Dysfunctional Net Retard, or ????

We may have to come up with a new catagory for folks like Atici. (Maybe an
institution.)

Lee Michaels
July 29th 03, 05:44 AM
"Ryan Atici" > wrote in message
...
> >Atici must be a troll because I don't think it's possible for anyone to
be
> >the total asshole he appears to be.
>
> Calling a person total asshole qualifies you to be bigger asshole as well
as
> a loser troll. ;-)
>
> Let's have a list of idiots.
>
> The top of the list is reserved for David, of course. ;-)
> 1- David Cohen
> 2- Xtrain13
> 3- Wayne S. (****) Hill
> 4- Bob Garrison
> 5- Art S.
> 6- Theresa
>
>

This guy may deserve greater honors than just a paltry idiot of the month.

Maybe Asshole of the Year. Or Ultimate Troll In Denial, or Raging Simpleton.

Ultimate Dysfunctional Net Retard, or ????

We may have to come up with a new catagory for folks like Atici. (Maybe an
institution.)

Art S
July 29th 03, 05:47 AM
"Lee Michaels" > wrote in message
news:%[email protected]
>
> "Ryan Atici" > wrote in message
> ...
> > >Atici must be a troll because I don't think it's possible for anyone to
> be
> > >the total asshole he appears to be.
> >
> > Calling a person total asshole qualifies you to be bigger asshole as well
> as
> > a loser troll. ;-)
> >
> > Let's have a list of idiots.
> >
> > The top of the list is reserved for David, of course. ;-)
> > 1- David Cohen
> > 2- Xtrain13
> > 3- Wayne S. (****) Hill
> > 4- Bob Garrison
> > 5- Art S.
> > 6- Theresa
> >
> >
>
> This guy may deserve greater honors than just a paltry idiot of the month.
>
> Maybe Asshole of the Year. Or Ultimate Troll In Denial, or Raging Simpleton.
>
> Ultimate Dysfunctional Net Retard, or ????
>
> We may have to come up with a new catagory for folks like Atici. (Maybe an
> institution.)
>
>

Careful, or he'll put you on his list, too.

Art

Art S
July 29th 03, 05:47 AM
"Lee Michaels" > wrote in message
news:%[email protected]
>
> "Ryan Atici" > wrote in message
> ...
> > >Atici must be a troll because I don't think it's possible for anyone to
> be
> > >the total asshole he appears to be.
> >
> > Calling a person total asshole qualifies you to be bigger asshole as well
> as
> > a loser troll. ;-)
> >
> > Let's have a list of idiots.
> >
> > The top of the list is reserved for David, of course. ;-)
> > 1- David Cohen
> > 2- Xtrain13
> > 3- Wayne S. (****) Hill
> > 4- Bob Garrison
> > 5- Art S.
> > 6- Theresa
> >
> >
>
> This guy may deserve greater honors than just a paltry idiot of the month.
>
> Maybe Asshole of the Year. Or Ultimate Troll In Denial, or Raging Simpleton.
>
> Ultimate Dysfunctional Net Retard, or ????
>
> We may have to come up with a new catagory for folks like Atici. (Maybe an
> institution.)
>
>

Careful, or he'll put you on his list, too.

Art

Donovan Rebbechi
July 29th 03, 06:06 AM
In article >, Ryan Atici wrote:
>>Atici must be a troll because I don't think it's possible for anyone to be
>>the total asshole he appears to be.
>
> Calling a person total asshole qualifies you to be bigger asshole as well as
> a loser troll. ;-)
>
> Let's have a list of idiots.
>
> The top of the list is reserved for David, of course. ;-)
> 1- David Cohen
> 2- Xtrain13
> 3- Wayne S. (****) Hill
> 4- Bob Garrison
> 5- Art S.
> 6- Theresa

It appears that you're nominating David for IOM. Is this correct ? If so, you
should include some of David's funniest quotes. Of course, it's hard to choose
when a nominee constantly posts content that is laughably false, but the idea
is to distill the moderately comical from the "spilling the coffee and falling
off the chair" funny.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Donovan Rebbechi
July 29th 03, 06:06 AM
In article >, Ryan Atici wrote:
>>Atici must be a troll because I don't think it's possible for anyone to be
>>the total asshole he appears to be.
>
> Calling a person total asshole qualifies you to be bigger asshole as well as
> a loser troll. ;-)
>
> Let's have a list of idiots.
>
> The top of the list is reserved for David, of course. ;-)
> 1- David Cohen
> 2- Xtrain13
> 3- Wayne S. (****) Hill
> 4- Bob Garrison
> 5- Art S.
> 6- Theresa

It appears that you're nominating David for IOM. Is this correct ? If so, you
should include some of David's funniest quotes. Of course, it's hard to choose
when a nominee constantly posts content that is laughably false, but the idea
is to distill the moderately comical from the "spilling the coffee and falling
off the chair" funny.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

John M. Williams
July 29th 03, 06:07 AM
"Lee Michaels" > wrote:
>
>"Ryan Atici" > wrote:
>> >Atici must be a troll because I don't think it's possible for anyone to
>> >be the total asshole he appears to be.
>>
>> Calling a person total asshole qualifies you to be bigger asshole as well
>> as a loser troll. ;-)
>>
>> Let's have a list of idiots.
>>
>> The top of the list is reserved for David, of course. ;-)
>> 1- David Cohen
>> 2- Xtrain13
>> 3- Wayne S. (****) Hill
>> 4- Bob Garrison
>> 5- Art S.
>> 6- Theresa
>>
>>
>
>This guy may deserve greater honors than just a paltry idiot of the month.
>
>Maybe Asshole of the Year. Or Ultimate Troll In Denial, or Raging Simpleton.
>
>Ultimate Dysfunctional Net Retard, or ????
>
>We may have to come up with a new catagory for folks like Atici.

Neal Fabian protegé?

John M. Williams
July 29th 03, 06:07 AM
"Lee Michaels" > wrote:
>
>"Ryan Atici" > wrote:
>> >Atici must be a troll because I don't think it's possible for anyone to
>> >be the total asshole he appears to be.
>>
>> Calling a person total asshole qualifies you to be bigger asshole as well
>> as a loser troll. ;-)
>>
>> Let's have a list of idiots.
>>
>> The top of the list is reserved for David, of course. ;-)
>> 1- David Cohen
>> 2- Xtrain13
>> 3- Wayne S. (****) Hill
>> 4- Bob Garrison
>> 5- Art S.
>> 6- Theresa
>>
>>
>
>This guy may deserve greater honors than just a paltry idiot of the month.
>
>Maybe Asshole of the Year. Or Ultimate Troll In Denial, or Raging Simpleton.
>
>Ultimate Dysfunctional Net Retard, or ????
>
>We may have to come up with a new catagory for folks like Atici.

Neal Fabian protegé?

David Cohen
July 29th 03, 06:58 AM
"Lee Michaels" > wrote
> "Ryan Atici" > wrote
> > >Atici must be a troll because I don't think it's possible for
anyone to
> be
> > >the total asshole he appears to be.
> >
> > Calling a person total asshole qualifies you to be bigger asshole
as well
> as
> > a loser troll. ;-)
> >
> > Let's have a list of idiots.
> >
> > The top of the list is reserved for David, of course. ;-)
> > 1- David Cohen
> > 2- Xtrain13
> > 3- Wayne S. (****) Hill
> > 4- Bob Garrison
> > 5- Art S.
> > 6- Theresa

> This guy may deserve greater honors than just a paltry idiot of the
month.
>
> Maybe Asshole of the Year. Or Ultimate Troll In Denial, or Raging
Simpleton.
>
> Ultimate Dysfunctional Net Retard, or ????
>
> We may have to come up with a new catagory for folks like Atici.
(Maybe an
> institution.)

Your just jealous 'cause your not on his list.

David
#1 Atician Idiot, and damned proud of it!

David Cohen
July 29th 03, 06:58 AM
"Lee Michaels" > wrote
> "Ryan Atici" > wrote
> > >Atici must be a troll because I don't think it's possible for
anyone to
> be
> > >the total asshole he appears to be.
> >
> > Calling a person total asshole qualifies you to be bigger asshole
as well
> as
> > a loser troll. ;-)
> >
> > Let's have a list of idiots.
> >
> > The top of the list is reserved for David, of course. ;-)
> > 1- David Cohen
> > 2- Xtrain13
> > 3- Wayne S. (****) Hill
> > 4- Bob Garrison
> > 5- Art S.
> > 6- Theresa

> This guy may deserve greater honors than just a paltry idiot of the
month.
>
> Maybe Asshole of the Year. Or Ultimate Troll In Denial, or Raging
Simpleton.
>
> Ultimate Dysfunctional Net Retard, or ????
>
> We may have to come up with a new catagory for folks like Atici.
(Maybe an
> institution.)

Your just jealous 'cause your not on his list.

David
#1 Atician Idiot, and damned proud of it!

David Cohen
July 29th 03, 07:00 AM
"Theresa" > wrote in message
...
> I killfiled Ryan pretty much right away.
>
> On reflection, maybe I should've kept him. He's funny.

And...

Your on his list of Atician Idiots.

Not #1 like me, of course, but I did nominate him.

David
--
"You're a ****ing moron, David Cohen."---August Pamplona

David Cohen
July 29th 03, 07:00 AM
"Theresa" > wrote in message
...
> I killfiled Ryan pretty much right away.
>
> On reflection, maybe I should've kept him. He's funny.

And...

Your on his list of Atician Idiots.

Not #1 like me, of course, but I did nominate him.

David
--
"You're a ****ing moron, David Cohen."---August Pamplona

Dr_Dickie
July 29th 03, 12:43 PM
On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 18:39:16 -0400, "Ryan Atici"
> wrote:

>>Based on this one post only, I nominate Ryan Atici for Idiot of the
>>Month. Please note this post of his is only the last in a series of
>>posts, reiterating the same points, as follows. The full flavor of his
>>idiocy is best appreciated by reviewing all his posts.
>
>Since you lack common sense, you fail to understand even simple things. That
>makes you the father of all idiots. ;-)
>
>>In response to questioning his assertion that soreness is a good
>>indicator of workout effectiveness, Idiot states, " If you're smart
>>enough with your workout routine, all you get it[sic] muscle soreness,
>>and that is a good indication."
>
>Your lack of understanding proves that you're the best idiot that there is.
>
>Art indicated that soreness might be caused by other factors that may
>indicate muscle, tendon, and/or ligament damage. If you're smart enough with
>your workout, you won't have any injury, but just muscle soreness which is a
>good indication that shows that you had a good workout.
>
>>Idiot claims eggs have a "100% protein rating", persisting with his
>>own terminology, despite being informed he is making up terms. When
>>presented with the fact that eggs are not 100% protein, but have fat,
>>water, and carbohydrates as well, Idiot states, "The rate of 100
>>percent protein indicates that the source of food is pure protein."
>
>You're a dope. That's why you can't make any sense out of any simple
>statement. The rate of 100 percent protein indicates that the source of food
>is pure protein.
>
>>Idiot claims male professional bodybuilders achieve about 12% body
>>fay. When informed by Art: "last I heard, pro male bodybuilders get
>>closer to 6% than 12%", Idiot responds, "You need to hear better."
>
>You're an idiot. You can read, but can't understand anything from what you
>read. That's the perfect proof of your idiocy. I didn't say that
>professional bodybuilders achieve about 12 percent body fat. I said that
>most bodybuilders have 12 percent body fat. If they want, they can achieve
>better results than only 12 percent body fat.
>
>I was making a simple point that even pro bodybuilders have some percentage
>of body fat. Since you're an idiot, you don't get the point.
>
>>Idiot claims carbohydrates are required for muscle growth (not
>>preferred, required), ignoring patients, dieters, and entire cultures
>>whose nearly carb-free diet doesn't cause muscleless humans.
>
>Nope, you're misquoting, and talking out of your ass again. I never said
>that carbohydrates are required for muscle growth.
>
>Carbohydrates are needed for fuel whereas proteins are required for muscle
>growth.
>
>>Art asks: "if I need carbohydrates for fuel, what happens if I don't eat
>any?",
>>and Idiot responds "That means you don't have fuel ready."
>
>Carbohydrates give you fuel for your workout. If you don't have
>carbohydrates, that means you don't have fuel ready. I tried to make it as
>simple as I could for you to understand, but you failed to understand again.
>What an idiot you are...!?!?
>
>>Idiot claims that weight loss absolutely requires exercise (not
>>stating it's the best way, but stating it's the only way), and states,
>>"At some point, even though you stop eating, you can't lose any more
>>weight."
>
>Idiot, read again what I said. I said that you can't lose ***all the fat***
>just by cutting down on food. If you're a habitual eater, you lose some here
>and there to certain degree just by going on a diet. At some point, even
>though you stop eating, you can't lose any more weight. That's a simple
>fact, but an idiot like you can't understand it.
>
>>Idiot claims abdominal fat can be lost by spot-reducing exercises. Art
>>asks what exercises to do to lose abdominal fat. Idiot responds,
>>"Execute variety of different sets of Hip Raise, Kneeling Crunch,
>><snip long list of abdominal muscle exercises>".
>
>It is obvious that you have no experience in those workout routines.
>
>>Art responds: "Those look like they are all for the abs. Does that mean
>doing bench
>>presses, squats, leg presses, triceps push downs, and bicep curls won't
>help
>>lose weight, or that they wouldn't help me lose fat from my abs?"
>>Idiot states, "You asked me what you should do if you had a big
>>stomach. That's what you have to do."
>
>You're a clueless idiot. You're so clueless that you don't even know that
>nothing will help you get rip of your fat stomach as much as abs workout
>routines. You need serious help.
>
>>I look forward to Idiot Atici's IOM nomination post for me. Please
>>remember it must deal with on-topic areas. I can be a true idiot in
>>numerous off-topic conversations.
>
>Regardless, you're a true idiot in every aspect of life. ;-)
>

A wise man once said, "It is better to hold your tongue and have
people think you are an idiot, than to speak and remove all doubt."
I really think that you should heed that advice.
Can you still see the sky from that hole? If you can, what color is it
in your world?
Dr. Dickie
Skepticult member in good standing #394-00596-438
Poking kooks with a pointy stick
====================================
"Let be be finale of seem.
The only emperor is the emperor of ice-cream"
Wallace Stevens-1923
=====================================

Dr_Dickie
July 29th 03, 12:43 PM
On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 18:39:16 -0400, "Ryan Atici"
> wrote:

>>Based on this one post only, I nominate Ryan Atici for Idiot of the
>>Month. Please note this post of his is only the last in a series of
>>posts, reiterating the same points, as follows. The full flavor of his
>>idiocy is best appreciated by reviewing all his posts.
>
>Since you lack common sense, you fail to understand even simple things. That
>makes you the father of all idiots. ;-)
>
>>In response to questioning his assertion that soreness is a good
>>indicator of workout effectiveness, Idiot states, " If you're smart
>>enough with your workout routine, all you get it[sic] muscle soreness,
>>and that is a good indication."
>
>Your lack of understanding proves that you're the best idiot that there is.
>
>Art indicated that soreness might be caused by other factors that may
>indicate muscle, tendon, and/or ligament damage. If you're smart enough with
>your workout, you won't have any injury, but just muscle soreness which is a
>good indication that shows that you had a good workout.
>
>>Idiot claims eggs have a "100% protein rating", persisting with his
>>own terminology, despite being informed he is making up terms. When
>>presented with the fact that eggs are not 100% protein, but have fat,
>>water, and carbohydrates as well, Idiot states, "The rate of 100
>>percent protein indicates that the source of food is pure protein."
>
>You're a dope. That's why you can't make any sense out of any simple
>statement. The rate of 100 percent protein indicates that the source of food
>is pure protein.
>
>>Idiot claims male professional bodybuilders achieve about 12% body
>>fay. When informed by Art: "last I heard, pro male bodybuilders get
>>closer to 6% than 12%", Idiot responds, "You need to hear better."
>
>You're an idiot. You can read, but can't understand anything from what you
>read. That's the perfect proof of your idiocy. I didn't say that
>professional bodybuilders achieve about 12 percent body fat. I said that
>most bodybuilders have 12 percent body fat. If they want, they can achieve
>better results than only 12 percent body fat.
>
>I was making a simple point that even pro bodybuilders have some percentage
>of body fat. Since you're an idiot, you don't get the point.
>
>>Idiot claims carbohydrates are required for muscle growth (not
>>preferred, required), ignoring patients, dieters, and entire cultures
>>whose nearly carb-free diet doesn't cause muscleless humans.
>
>Nope, you're misquoting, and talking out of your ass again. I never said
>that carbohydrates are required for muscle growth.
>
>Carbohydrates are needed for fuel whereas proteins are required for muscle
>growth.
>
>>Art asks: "if I need carbohydrates for fuel, what happens if I don't eat
>any?",
>>and Idiot responds "That means you don't have fuel ready."
>
>Carbohydrates give you fuel for your workout. If you don't have
>carbohydrates, that means you don't have fuel ready. I tried to make it as
>simple as I could for you to understand, but you failed to understand again.
>What an idiot you are...!?!?
>
>>Idiot claims that weight loss absolutely requires exercise (not
>>stating it's the best way, but stating it's the only way), and states,
>>"At some point, even though you stop eating, you can't lose any more
>>weight."
>
>Idiot, read again what I said. I said that you can't lose ***all the fat***
>just by cutting down on food. If you're a habitual eater, you lose some here
>and there to certain degree just by going on a diet. At some point, even
>though you stop eating, you can't lose any more weight. That's a simple
>fact, but an idiot like you can't understand it.
>
>>Idiot claims abdominal fat can be lost by spot-reducing exercises. Art
>>asks what exercises to do to lose abdominal fat. Idiot responds,
>>"Execute variety of different sets of Hip Raise, Kneeling Crunch,
>><snip long list of abdominal muscle exercises>".
>
>It is obvious that you have no experience in those workout routines.
>
>>Art responds: "Those look like they are all for the abs. Does that mean
>doing bench
>>presses, squats, leg presses, triceps push downs, and bicep curls won't
>help
>>lose weight, or that they wouldn't help me lose fat from my abs?"
>>Idiot states, "You asked me what you should do if you had a big
>>stomach. That's what you have to do."
>
>You're a clueless idiot. You're so clueless that you don't even know that
>nothing will help you get rip of your fat stomach as much as abs workout
>routines. You need serious help.
>
>>I look forward to Idiot Atici's IOM nomination post for me. Please
>>remember it must deal with on-topic areas. I can be a true idiot in
>>numerous off-topic conversations.
>
>Regardless, you're a true idiot in every aspect of life. ;-)
>

A wise man once said, "It is better to hold your tongue and have
people think you are an idiot, than to speak and remove all doubt."
I really think that you should heed that advice.
Can you still see the sky from that hole? If you can, what color is it
in your world?
Dr. Dickie
Skepticult member in good standing #394-00596-438
Poking kooks with a pointy stick
====================================
"Let be be finale of seem.
The only emperor is the emperor of ice-cream"
Wallace Stevens-1923
=====================================

Dr_Dickie
July 29th 03, 12:45 PM
On 29 Jul 2003 00:40:04 GMT, "Wayne S. Hill" > wrote:

>Keith Hobman wrote:
>
>> This is good stuff Ryan. Please continue to refute David's
>> arguments so I can make an informed decision.
>
>I think Krista said it best: "I am intrigued by your ideas, and
>would like to subscribe to your newsletter."
>
>These damned Canadians aren't so nice, after all.

That was Homer Simpson she was quoting. A true genius among cartoon
men!
Dr. Dickie
Skepticult member in good standing #394-00596-438
Poking kooks with a pointy stick
====================================
"Let be be finale of seem.
The only emperor is the emperor of ice-cream"
Wallace Stevens-1923
=====================================

Dr_Dickie
July 29th 03, 12:45 PM
On 29 Jul 2003 00:40:04 GMT, "Wayne S. Hill" > wrote:

>Keith Hobman wrote:
>
>> This is good stuff Ryan. Please continue to refute David's
>> arguments so I can make an informed decision.
>
>I think Krista said it best: "I am intrigued by your ideas, and
>would like to subscribe to your newsletter."
>
>These damned Canadians aren't so nice, after all.

That was Homer Simpson she was quoting. A true genius among cartoon
men!
Dr. Dickie
Skepticult member in good standing #394-00596-438
Poking kooks with a pointy stick
====================================
"Let be be finale of seem.
The only emperor is the emperor of ice-cream"
Wallace Stevens-1923
=====================================

Wayne S. Hill
July 29th 03, 02:22 PM
Dr_Dickie wrote:

> Can you still see the sky from that hole? If you can, what
> color is it in your world?

I've heard that you can see stars during the day from the bottom
of a well. Is this true?

--
-Wayne

Wayne S. Hill
July 29th 03, 02:22 PM
Dr_Dickie wrote:

> Can you still see the sky from that hole? If you can, what
> color is it in your world?

I've heard that you can see stars during the day from the bottom
of a well. Is this true?

--
-Wayne

Wayne S. Hill
July 29th 03, 02:26 PM
David Cohen wrote:

> "Lee Michaels" > wrote

>> We may have to come up with a new catagory for folks like
>> Atici. (Maybe an institution.)
>
> Your just jealous 'cause your not on his list.
>
> David
> #1 Atician Idiot, and damned proud of it!

I'm outraged to find myself in third place. Hurt, really,
although I was the only one to receive the special name treatment.

--
-Wayne

Wayne S. Hill
July 29th 03, 02:26 PM
David Cohen wrote:

> "Lee Michaels" > wrote

>> We may have to come up with a new catagory for folks like
>> Atici. (Maybe an institution.)
>
> Your just jealous 'cause your not on his list.
>
> David
> #1 Atician Idiot, and damned proud of it!

I'm outraged to find myself in third place. Hurt, really,
although I was the only one to receive the special name treatment.

--
-Wayne

cl
July 29th 03, 03:10 PM
Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
>
> In article >, Ryan Atici wrote:
> >>Atici must be a troll because I don't think it's possible for anyone to be
> >>the total asshole he appears to be.
> >
> > Calling a person total asshole qualifies you to be bigger asshole as well as
> > a loser troll. ;-)
> >
> > Let's have a list of idiots.
> >
> > The top of the list is reserved for David, of course. ;-)
> > 1- David Cohen
> > 2- Xtrain13
> > 3- Wayne S. (****) Hill
> > 4- Bob Garrison
> > 5- Art S.
> > 6- Theresa
>
> It appears that you're nominating David for IOM. Is this correct ? If so, you
> should include some of David's funniest quotes. Of course, it's hard to choose
> when a nominee constantly posts content that is laughably false, but the idea
> is to distill the moderately comical from the "spilling the coffee and falling
> off the chair" funny.

How about this?
-CAL

--
More reliable than any gun, including ultra-reliable ones like
Kimbers.- David Cohen 6-10-2003

cl
July 29th 03, 03:10 PM
Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
>
> In article >, Ryan Atici wrote:
> >>Atici must be a troll because I don't think it's possible for anyone to be
> >>the total asshole he appears to be.
> >
> > Calling a person total asshole qualifies you to be bigger asshole as well as
> > a loser troll. ;-)
> >
> > Let's have a list of idiots.
> >
> > The top of the list is reserved for David, of course. ;-)
> > 1- David Cohen
> > 2- Xtrain13
> > 3- Wayne S. (****) Hill
> > 4- Bob Garrison
> > 5- Art S.
> > 6- Theresa
>
> It appears that you're nominating David for IOM. Is this correct ? If so, you
> should include some of David's funniest quotes. Of course, it's hard to choose
> when a nominee constantly posts content that is laughably false, but the idea
> is to distill the moderately comical from the "spilling the coffee and falling
> off the chair" funny.

How about this?
-CAL

--
More reliable than any gun, including ultra-reliable ones like
Kimbers.- David Cohen 6-10-2003

Ryan Atici
July 29th 03, 04:00 PM
Your lack of intelligence earns you a spot in the list. ;-)

1- David Cohen
2- Xtrain13
3- Wayne S. (****) Hill
4- Bob Garrison
5- Lee Michaels
6- Art S.
7- Theresa

Ryan Atici
July 29th 03, 04:00 PM
Your lack of intelligence earns you a spot in the list. ;-)

1- David Cohen
2- Xtrain13
3- Wayne S. (****) Hill
4- Bob Garrison
5- Lee Michaels
6- Art S.
7- Theresa

Ryan Atici
July 29th 03, 04:03 PM
> I'm outraged to find myself in third place. Hurt, really,
> although I was the only one to receive the special name treatment.

You need more serious treatment. Just a name treatment doesn't solve all
your problems. ;-)

Ryan Atici
July 29th 03, 04:03 PM
> I'm outraged to find myself in third place. Hurt, really,
> although I was the only one to receive the special name treatment.

You need more serious treatment. Just a name treatment doesn't solve all
your problems. ;-)

JC Der Koenig
July 29th 03, 04:11 PM
"Ryan Atici" > wrote in message
...
> > I'm outraged to find myself in third place. Hurt, really,
> > although I was the only one to receive the special name treatment.
>
> You need more serious treatment. Just a name treatment doesn't solve all
> your problems. ;-)
>
>

How long have you worked on developing this persona? You're really quite an
artist.

JC Der Koenig
July 29th 03, 04:11 PM
"Ryan Atici" > wrote in message
...
> > I'm outraged to find myself in third place. Hurt, really,
> > although I was the only one to receive the special name treatment.
>
> You need more serious treatment. Just a name treatment doesn't solve all
> your problems. ;-)
>
>

How long have you worked on developing this persona? You're really quite an
artist.

David Cohen
July 29th 03, 04:58 PM
"Wayne S. Hill" > wrote
> David Cohen wrote:
> > "Lee Michaels" > wrote
>
> >> We may have to come up with a new catagory for folks like
> >> Atici. (Maybe an institution.)
> >
> > Your just jealous 'cause your not on his list.
> >
> > David
> > #1 Atician Idiot, and damned proud of it!
>
> I'm outraged to find myself in third place. Hurt, really,
> although I was the only one to receive the special name treatment.

Good point. Lysis established the value of "special" names. He was,
however, a lot more creative about it that Idiot Atici.

David
--
"Nurse Porcine Excrement is absolutely right."-Lysis

David Cohen
July 29th 03, 04:58 PM
"Wayne S. Hill" > wrote
> David Cohen wrote:
> > "Lee Michaels" > wrote
>
> >> We may have to come up with a new catagory for folks like
> >> Atici. (Maybe an institution.)
> >
> > Your just jealous 'cause your not on his list.
> >
> > David
> > #1 Atician Idiot, and damned proud of it!
>
> I'm outraged to find myself in third place. Hurt, really,
> although I was the only one to receive the special name treatment.

Good point. Lysis established the value of "special" names. He was,
however, a lot more creative about it that Idiot Atici.

David
--
"Nurse Porcine Excrement is absolutely right."-Lysis

Wendy Marsden
July 29th 03, 05:20 PM
cl > wrote:
> Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
>> It appears that you're nominating David for IOM. Is this correct ? If so, you
>> should include some of David's funniest quotes.

> How about this?
> -CAL

> --
> More reliable than any gun, including ultra-reliable ones like
> Kimbers.- David Cohen 6-10-2003

Doesn't it have to be even moderately on-topic to be eligible? Or can we
include stuff about WMD and Jewish conspiracies? (In which case gun stuff
is as on-topic as anything else in this group.)

Wendy

Wendy Marsden
July 29th 03, 05:20 PM
cl > wrote:
> Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
>> It appears that you're nominating David for IOM. Is this correct ? If so, you
>> should include some of David's funniest quotes.

> How about this?
> -CAL

> --
> More reliable than any gun, including ultra-reliable ones like
> Kimbers.- David Cohen 6-10-2003

Doesn't it have to be even moderately on-topic to be eligible? Or can we
include stuff about WMD and Jewish conspiracies? (In which case gun stuff
is as on-topic as anything else in this group.)

Wendy

Wendy Marsden
July 29th 03, 05:24 PM
Ryan Atici > wrote:
David Cohen wrote:
>>
>>Repeat 5 times: I we Todd did. I sofa king we Todd did.

> Whatever you're smoking, go easy on that.

You missed it, Ryan. Say it out loud.

Wendy

Wendy Marsden
July 29th 03, 05:24 PM
Ryan Atici > wrote:
David Cohen wrote:
>>
>>Repeat 5 times: I we Todd did. I sofa king we Todd did.

> Whatever you're smoking, go easy on that.

You missed it, Ryan. Say it out loud.

Wendy

Art S
July 29th 03, 05:27 PM
"Wendy Marsden" > wrote in message ...
> cl > wrote:
> > Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
> >> It appears that you're nominating David for IOM. Is this correct ? If so, you
> >> should include some of David's funniest quotes.
>
> > How about this?
> > -CAL
>
> > --
> > More reliable than any gun, including ultra-reliable ones like
> > Kimbers.- David Cohen 6-10-2003
>
> Doesn't it have to be even moderately on-topic to be eligible? Or can we
> include stuff about WMD and Jewish conspiracies? (In which case gun stuff
> is as on-topic as anything else in this group.)
>
> Wendy

IOM is limited to "on topic" subjects (health, fitness, diet, etc.)

Art

Art S
July 29th 03, 05:27 PM
"Wendy Marsden" > wrote in message ...
> cl > wrote:
> > Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
> >> It appears that you're nominating David for IOM. Is this correct ? If so, you
> >> should include some of David's funniest quotes.
>
> > How about this?
> > -CAL
>
> > --
> > More reliable than any gun, including ultra-reliable ones like
> > Kimbers.- David Cohen 6-10-2003
>
> Doesn't it have to be even moderately on-topic to be eligible? Or can we
> include stuff about WMD and Jewish conspiracies? (In which case gun stuff
> is as on-topic as anything else in this group.)
>
> Wendy

IOM is limited to "on topic" subjects (health, fitness, diet, etc.)

Art

Ryan Atici
July 30th 03, 12:24 AM
> How old are you, anyway ?

I'd prefer you ask me how young I am. ;-)

Ryan Atici
July 30th 03, 12:24 AM
> How old are you, anyway ?

I'd prefer you ask me how young I am. ;-)

Donovan Rebbechi
July 30th 03, 02:17 AM
In article >, Ryan Atici wrote:
>> How old are you, anyway ?
>
> I'd prefer you ask me how young I am. ;-)

OK, if you don't mind answering ... how young are you ? Just curious. You seem
to have accumulated a lot of the lore of bodybuilding, but I'm also guessing
you're relatively new to usenet.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Donovan Rebbechi
July 30th 03, 02:17 AM
In article >, Ryan Atici wrote:
>> How old are you, anyway ?
>
> I'd prefer you ask me how young I am. ;-)

OK, if you don't mind answering ... how young are you ? Just curious. You seem
to have accumulated a lot of the lore of bodybuilding, but I'm also guessing
you're relatively new to usenet.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Wayne S. Hill
July 30th 03, 02:55 AM
Dr_Dickie wrote:

> Wayne S. Hill wrote:
>>Dr_Dickie wrote:
>>
>>> Can you still see the sky from that hole? If you can, what
>>> color is it in your world?
>>
>>I've heard that you can see stars during the day from the
>>bottom of a well. Is this true?
>
> My comments were directed to Ryan, not you Wayne. I guess
> that I should have snipped to make that clearer.

Oh, I understood your meaning. I was just adding an
intellectual exercise for our middle-school troll.

--
-Wayne

Wayne S. Hill
July 30th 03, 02:55 AM
Dr_Dickie wrote:

> Wayne S. Hill wrote:
>>Dr_Dickie wrote:
>>
>>> Can you still see the sky from that hole? If you can, what
>>> color is it in your world?
>>
>>I've heard that you can see stars during the day from the
>>bottom of a well. Is this true?
>
> My comments were directed to Ryan, not you Wayne. I guess
> that I should have snipped to make that clearer.

Oh, I understood your meaning. I was just adding an
intellectual exercise for our middle-school troll.

--
-Wayne

Ryan Atici
July 31st 03, 01:37 AM
>OK, if you don't mind answering ... how young are you ? Just curious.

I am young not to be considered old, old not to be considered young. ;-)

>You seem to have accumulated a lot of the lore of bodybuilding,

Is this a back-handed complement?

>but I'm also guessing you're relatively new to usenet.

I'm relatively old to usent.

Ryan Atici
July 31st 03, 01:37 AM
>OK, if you don't mind answering ... how young are you ? Just curious.

I am young not to be considered old, old not to be considered young. ;-)

>You seem to have accumulated a lot of the lore of bodybuilding,

Is this a back-handed complement?

>but I'm also guessing you're relatively new to usenet.

I'm relatively old to usent.

gps
August 2nd 03, 05:41 AM
Lyle McDonald wrote:
>
> Art S wrote:
> >
> > <alt.sport.bodybuilding removed from news groups>
> >
> > "David Cohen" > wrote in message
> > thlink.net...
> > > Art, you are one sly dog! By careful response and questioning, you
> > > have gotten enough material out of Moron Atici, in just this one post,
> > > to warrant IOM nomination, if not assure a win. I am humbled by your
> > > skill.
> > >
> > > David
> >
> > Hmm. Somehow I get the feeling you are tired of reading his posts...
> > (I'm kinda tired of reading them myself. I've been mulling over whether
> > or not I wanted to reply to his last post for over an hour. That or ask
> > for a translator... his posts are getting harder to read. "Sourness" was
> > just a typo? I'm afraid to count how many times he used the word.)
>
> Lactic acid (like any acid) is sour.
> Since weight training generates lactic acid, it causes muscular sourness.
>
> That's be my best guess.
>
> Lyle

Soreness. I thought it was obvious.
ps

gps
August 2nd 03, 05:41 AM
Lyle McDonald wrote:
>
> Art S wrote:
> >
> > <alt.sport.bodybuilding removed from news groups>
> >
> > "David Cohen" > wrote in message
> > thlink.net...
> > > Art, you are one sly dog! By careful response and questioning, you
> > > have gotten enough material out of Moron Atici, in just this one post,
> > > to warrant IOM nomination, if not assure a win. I am humbled by your
> > > skill.
> > >
> > > David
> >
> > Hmm. Somehow I get the feeling you are tired of reading his posts...
> > (I'm kinda tired of reading them myself. I've been mulling over whether
> > or not I wanted to reply to his last post for over an hour. That or ask
> > for a translator... his posts are getting harder to read. "Sourness" was
> > just a typo? I'm afraid to count how many times he used the word.)
>
> Lactic acid (like any acid) is sour.
> Since weight training generates lactic acid, it causes muscular sourness.
>
> That's be my best guess.
>
> Lyle

Soreness. I thought it was obvious.
ps

Art S
August 2nd 03, 06:25 AM
"gps" > wrote in message ...
> Lyle McDonald wrote:
> >
> > Art S wrote:
> > >
> > > <alt.sport.bodybuilding removed from news groups>
> > >
> > > "David Cohen" > wrote in message
> > > thlink.net...
> > > > Art, you are one sly dog! By careful response and questioning, you
> > > > have gotten enough material out of Moron Atici, in just this one post,
> > > > to warrant IOM nomination, if not assure a win. I am humbled by your
> > > > skill.
> > > >
> > > > David
> > >
> > > Hmm. Somehow I get the feeling you are tired of reading his posts...
> > > (I'm kinda tired of reading them myself. I've been mulling over whether
> > > or not I wanted to reply to his last post for over an hour. That or ask
> > > for a translator... his posts are getting harder to read. "Sourness" was
> > > just a typo? I'm afraid to count how many times he used the word.)
> >
> > Lactic acid (like any acid) is sour.
> > Since weight training generates lactic acid, it causes muscular sourness.
> >
> > That's be my best guess.
> >
> > Lyle
>
> Soreness. I thought it was obvious.
> ps

When I said
>None of them seem relevant. How can I tell when my muscles are "sour"?

his reply was:
"My mind was busy with something else as I was typing the word. It was just
an honest mistake." - and he had used the word repeatedly.

I brought up "soreness" in the same post. All he said was "If you're smart
enough with your workout routine, all you get it muscle soreness, and that
is a good indication."

While it is quite likely that he simply misspelled "soreness", he never stated
that. One of the things that made him such a good IOM candidate. I think
David should do another nominating post using more of Atici's posts - he
ignored a fair amount of good material.

Art

Art S
August 2nd 03, 06:25 AM
"gps" > wrote in message ...
> Lyle McDonald wrote:
> >
> > Art S wrote:
> > >
> > > <alt.sport.bodybuilding removed from news groups>
> > >
> > > "David Cohen" > wrote in message
> > > thlink.net...
> > > > Art, you are one sly dog! By careful response and questioning, you
> > > > have gotten enough material out of Moron Atici, in just this one post,
> > > > to warrant IOM nomination, if not assure a win. I am humbled by your
> > > > skill.
> > > >
> > > > David
> > >
> > > Hmm. Somehow I get the feeling you are tired of reading his posts...
> > > (I'm kinda tired of reading them myself. I've been mulling over whether
> > > or not I wanted to reply to his last post for over an hour. That or ask
> > > for a translator... his posts are getting harder to read. "Sourness" was
> > > just a typo? I'm afraid to count how many times he used the word.)
> >
> > Lactic acid (like any acid) is sour.
> > Since weight training generates lactic acid, it causes muscular sourness.
> >
> > That's be my best guess.
> >
> > Lyle
>
> Soreness. I thought it was obvious.
> ps

When I said
>None of them seem relevant. How can I tell when my muscles are "sour"?

his reply was:
"My mind was busy with something else as I was typing the word. It was just
an honest mistake." - and he had used the word repeatedly.

I brought up "soreness" in the same post. All he said was "If you're smart
enough with your workout routine, all you get it muscle soreness, and that
is a good indication."

While it is quite likely that he simply misspelled "soreness", he never stated
that. One of the things that made him such a good IOM candidate. I think
David should do another nominating post using more of Atici's posts - he
ignored a fair amount of good material.

Art

John M. Williams
August 5th 03, 03:02 AM
"omegazero2003" > wrote:
>
>"John M. Williams" > wrote:
>> "Lee Michaels" > wrote:
>> >
>> >"Ryan Atici" > wrote:
>> >> >Atici must be a troll because I don't think it's possible for anyone
>> >> >to be the total asshole he appears to be.
>> >>
>> >> Calling a person total asshole qualifies you to be bigger asshole as
>> >> well as a loser troll. ;-)
>> >>
>> >> Let's have a list of idiots.
>> >>
>> >> The top of the list is reserved for David, of course. ;-)
>> >> 1- David Cohen
>> >> 2- Xtrain13
>> >> 3- Wayne S. (****) Hill
>> >> 4- Bob Garrison
>> >> 5- Art S.
>> >> 6- Theresa
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >This guy may deserve greater honors than just a paltry idiot of the
>> >month.
>> >
>> >Maybe Asshole of the Year. Or Ultimate Troll In Denial, or Raging
>> >Simpleton.
>> >
>> >Ultimate Dysfunctional Net Retard, or ????
>> >
>> >We may have to come up with a new catagory for folks like Atici.
>>
>> Neal Fabian protegé?
>
>That is almost as bad as a Mark T. King protégé. You are getting cruel.

Not nearly ...

[1] Mark T. King evaporated after Jason Hager screwed up and posted
his own name under a King post. Exposure of Fabian's fraud has not
deterred him.

[2] Mark T. King never had a web page proclaiming himself to be an
international glamour model.

John M. Williams
August 5th 03, 03:02 AM
"omegazero2003" > wrote:
>
>"John M. Williams" > wrote:
>> "Lee Michaels" > wrote:
>> >
>> >"Ryan Atici" > wrote:
>> >> >Atici must be a troll because I don't think it's possible for anyone
>> >> >to be the total asshole he appears to be.
>> >>
>> >> Calling a person total asshole qualifies you to be bigger asshole as
>> >> well as a loser troll. ;-)
>> >>
>> >> Let's have a list of idiots.
>> >>
>> >> The top of the list is reserved for David, of course. ;-)
>> >> 1- David Cohen
>> >> 2- Xtrain13
>> >> 3- Wayne S. (****) Hill
>> >> 4- Bob Garrison
>> >> 5- Art S.
>> >> 6- Theresa
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >This guy may deserve greater honors than just a paltry idiot of the
>> >month.
>> >
>> >Maybe Asshole of the Year. Or Ultimate Troll In Denial, or Raging
>> >Simpleton.
>> >
>> >Ultimate Dysfunctional Net Retard, or ????
>> >
>> >We may have to come up with a new catagory for folks like Atici.
>>
>> Neal Fabian protegé?
>
>That is almost as bad as a Mark T. King protégé. You are getting cruel.

Not nearly ...

[1] Mark T. King evaporated after Jason Hager screwed up and posted
his own name under a King post. Exposure of Fabian's fraud has not
deterred him.

[2] Mark T. King never had a web page proclaiming himself to be an
international glamour model.