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Marv
July 28th 04, 09:27 AM
Now that I've got your attention, I kindly request to read on and give
your expert
comments/suggestions.

All these years I've been an 'evening' workout guy and everything was
going smoothly.
Now, due to my work schedule its impossible to continue that way and
had to
switch to morning workouts.

I've noticed the following:

1. The workouts are not as good as the evening ones
2. My sets/reps have dropped considerably.
3. Tiredness, sleepy during the day etc.

My questions are:

- Is this normal?
- Would the workouts get better with time?
- Are evening workouts better than the mornings?

Another thing is:
I get up at 6 am, have just about half an hour before I hit the gym
at 6:30 am. Earlier I used to snack up on carbs about 45 mins to
1 hour before the workout, now I do not have the time.
My questiona are:

- Would it be ok to eat something half an out before I go to the gym?
- As I do not have time to prepare anything, would the following
be advisable:- bananas or baked potato or porridge?.

And anoher thing is due to my tight work schedule, am home by 9-10 pm
so theres no way I can hit the sack early.

Your inputs on the above will be greately appreciated.
Thanks much
Marv.

Wayne S. Hill
July 28th 04, 01:53 PM
Marv wrote:

> Now that I've got your attention, I kindly request to read
> on and give your expert comments/suggestions.
>
> All these years I've been an 'evening' workout guy and
> everything was going smoothly. Now, due to my work schedule
> its impossible to continue that way and had to switch to
> morning workouts.
>
> I've noticed the following:
>
> 1. The workouts are not as good as the evening ones 2. My
> sets/reps have dropped considerably. 3. Tiredness, sleepy
> during the day etc.
>
> My questions are:
>
> - Is this normal? - Would the workouts get better with time?
> - Are evening workouts better than the mornings?
>
> Another thing is: I get up at 6 am, have just about half an
> hour before I hit the gym at 6:30 am. Earlier I used to
> snack up on carbs about 45 mins to 1 hour before the
> workout, now I do not have the time.

This is probably the problem right here: you're
glycogen-depleted. Eat or drink some carbs before you hit the
gym. Whether 1/2 hour is enough of a delay is highly
individual. I could probably eat in the gym and not have a
problem. A high GI protein shake would be one good way to go.

--
-Wayne

Keith Hobman
July 28th 04, 03:08 PM
In article >, "Wayne S. Hill"
> wrote:

> Marv wrote:
>
> > Now that I've got your attention, I kindly request to read
> > on and give your expert comments/suggestions.
> >
> > All these years I've been an 'evening' workout guy and
> > everything was going smoothly. Now, due to my work schedule
> > its impossible to continue that way and had to switch to
> > morning workouts.
> >
> > I've noticed the following:
> >
> > 1. The workouts are not as good as the evening ones 2. My
> > sets/reps have dropped considerably. 3. Tiredness, sleepy
> > during the day etc.
> >
> > My questions are:
> >
> > - Is this normal? - Would the workouts get better with time?
> > - Are evening workouts better than the mornings?
> >
> > Another thing is: I get up at 6 am, have just about half an
> > hour before I hit the gym at 6:30 am. Earlier I used to
> > snack up on carbs about 45 mins to 1 hour before the
> > workout, now I do not have the time.
>
> This is probably the problem right here: you're
> glycogen-depleted. Eat or drink some carbs before you hit the
> gym. Whether 1/2 hour is enough of a delay is highly
> individual. I could probably eat in the gym and not have a
> problem. A high GI protein shake would be one good way to go.

There are other factors at work. The Russians did a huge study and found
strength peaks at 1 pm and 7 pm, so they recommended lifting then. Did
they try and manipulate diet, etc? I doubt it - these are the most
pragmatic studies I've ever seen. But still.

I know I give up 5% in strength in a morning workout. If I have to work
out in the morning I just accept that and try and improve my 95%. Any
improvement normally carries over to later in the day.

--
Dawn's cold kiss calls me
Forth I creep, blindly stumbling
Joy: Morning workouts.
Hugh Beyer's 'Haiku On Returning To Weights'

Steve Freides
July 28th 04, 03:24 PM
"Wayne S. Hill" > wrote in message
...
> Marv wrote:
>
> > Now that I've got your attention, I kindly request to read
> > on and give your expert comments/suggestions.
> >
> > All these years I've been an 'evening' workout guy and
> > everything was going smoothly. Now, due to my work schedule
> > its impossible to continue that way and had to switch to
> > morning workouts.
> >
> > I've noticed the following:
> >
> > 1. The workouts are not as good as the evening ones 2. My
> > sets/reps have dropped considerably. 3. Tiredness, sleepy
> > during the day etc.
> >
> > My questions are:
> >
> > - Is this normal? - Would the workouts get better with time?
> > - Are evening workouts better than the mornings?
> >
> > Another thing is: I get up at 6 am, have just about half an
> > hour before I hit the gym at 6:30 am. Earlier I used to
> > snack up on carbs about 45 mins to 1 hour before the
> > workout, now I do not have the time.
>
> This is probably the problem right here: you're
> glycogen-depleted. Eat or drink some carbs before you hit the
> gym. Whether 1/2 hour is enough of a delay is highly
> individual. I could probably eat in the gym and not have a
> problem. A high GI protein shake would be one good way to go.

He could also try having more carbs the night before - works for me -
and again after the workout.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

223rem
July 28th 04, 03:31 PM
>
> He could also try having more carbs the night before - works for me -
> and again after the workout.

Carbs before bed? I think they would get transformed into fat...

Jeff Finlayson
July 28th 04, 03:40 PM
Marv wrote:

> Now that I've got your attention, I kindly request to read on and give
> your expert comments/suggestions.
>
> All these years I've been an 'evening' workout guy and everything was
> going smoothly.
> Now, due to my work schedule its impossible to continue that way and
> had to switch to morning workouts.
>
> I've noticed the following:
> 1. The workouts are not as good as the evening ones
> 2. My sets/reps have dropped considerably.
> 3. Tiredness, sleepy during the day etc.
>
> My questions are:
> - Is this normal?
> - Would the workouts get better with time?
> - Are evening workouts better than the mornings?
>
> Another thing is:
> I get up at 6 am, have just about half an hour before I hit the gym
> at 6:30 am. Earlier I used to snack up on carbs about 45 mins to
> 1 hour before the workout, now I do not have the time.
> My questiona are:
>
> - Would it be ok to eat something half an out before I go to the gym?
> - As I do not have time to prepare anything, would the following
> be advisable:- bananas or baked potato or porridge?.
>
> And anoher thing is due to my tight work schedule, am home by 9-10 pm
> so theres no way I can hit the sack early.
>
> Your inputs on the above will be greately appreciated.
> Thanks much
> Marv.

Humm, sounds familar.
http://www.drsquat.com/index.cfm?action=viewtopic&forumID=2&rootthreadID=145584&context=7

Jeff Finlayson
July 28th 04, 04:35 PM
223rem wrote:
> Steve Freides wrote:

>> He could also try having more carbs the night before - works for me -
>> and again after the workout.
>
> Carbs before bed? I think they would get transformed into fat...

Watch that thinking stuff..

223rem
July 28th 04, 04:49 PM
Jeff Finlayson wrote:
> 223rem wrote:
>
>> Steve Freides wrote:
>
>
>>> He could also try having more carbs the night before - works for me -
>>> and again after the workout.
>>
>>
>> Carbs before bed? I think they would get transformed into fat...
>
>
> Watch that thinking stuff..

I'm trying. Its very hard.

Steve Freides
July 28th 04, 04:52 PM
"223rem" > wrote in message
gy.com...
>
>
> >
> > He could also try having more carbs the night before - works for
me -
> > and again after the workout.
>
> Carbs before bed? I think they would get transformed into fat...

Take a look at me - at least in my case, it doesn't work that way. I
eat very little during the day and what little I eat usually contains
zero carbs. All my carbs are part of dinner and dessert. And I work
out at various times during the day but generally the morning, almost
never after dinner, which means I regularly lift after not having had
any carbs for 12-18 hours.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

Elzinator
July 28th 04, 07:23 PM
(Keith Hobman) wrote in message >...
> In article >, "Wayne S. Hill"
> > wrote:
>
> > Marv wrote:
> >
> > > Now that I've got your attention, I kindly request to read
> > > on and give your expert comments/suggestions.
> > >
> > > All these years I've been an 'evening' workout guy and
> > > everything was going smoothly. Now, due to my work schedule
> > > its impossible to continue that way and had to switch to
> > > morning workouts.
> > >
> > > I've noticed the following:
> > >
> > > 1. The workouts are not as good as the evening ones 2. My
> > > sets/reps have dropped considerably. 3. Tiredness, sleepy
> > > during the day etc.
> > >
> > > My questions are:
> > >
> > > - Is this normal? - Would the workouts get better with time?
> > > - Are evening workouts better than the mornings?
> > >
> > > Another thing is: I get up at 6 am, have just about half an
> > > hour before I hit the gym at 6:30 am. Earlier I used to
> > > snack up on carbs about 45 mins to 1 hour before the
> > > workout, now I do not have the time.
> >
> > This is probably the problem right here: you're
> > glycogen-depleted. Eat or drink some carbs before you hit the
> > gym. Whether 1/2 hour is enough of a delay is highly
> > individual. I could probably eat in the gym and not have a
> > problem. A high GI protein shake would be one good way to go.
>
> There are other factors at work. The Russians did a huge study and found
> strength peaks at 1 pm and 7 pm, so they recommended lifting then. Did
> they try and manipulate diet, etc? I doubt it - these are the most
> pragmatic studies I've ever seen. But still.
>
> I know I give up 5% in strength in a morning workout. If I have to work
> out in the morning I just accept that and try and improve my 95%. Any
> improvement normally carries over to later in the day.


For many, espeically older individuals, the risk of injury increases
in early morning training.

bc
July 28th 04, 11:36 PM
223rem > wrote in message m>...
> Jeff Finlayson wrote:
> > 223rem wrote:
> >
> >> Steve Freides wrote:
> >
> >
> >>> He could also try having more carbs the night before - works for me -
> >>> and again after the workout.
> >>
> >>
> >> Carbs before bed? I think they would get transformed into fat...
> >
> >
> > Watch that thinking stuff..
>
> I'm trying. Its very hard.

There's a quote from one of the Three Stooges I believe, "I'm trying
to think, but nothing happens."

You've got to start paying more attention when smart responses to your
blurted, and all too common, misconceptions are provided for you.
These folks won't put up with you forever you know.

- bc
- bc

bc
July 28th 04, 11:40 PM
Jeff Finlayson > wrote in message >...
> Marv wrote:
>
> > Now that I've got your attention, I kindly request to read on and give
> > your expert comments/suggestions.

> Humm, sounds familar.
> http://www.drsquat.com/index.cfm?action=viewtopic&forumID=2&rootthreadID=145584&context=7

Well, maybe Ryan/Marv/whoever couldn't think of anything to say here.
Sad really, given all the fun things we talk about.

- bc

223rem
July 28th 04, 11:46 PM
bc wrote:
> 223rem > wrote in message m>...
>
>>Jeff Finlayson wrote:
>>
>>>223rem wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Steve Freides wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>He could also try having more carbs the night before - works for me -
>>>>>and again after the workout.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Carbs before bed? I think they would get transformed into fat...
>>>
>>>
>>>Watch that thinking stuff..
>>
>>I'm trying. Its very hard.
>
>
> There's a quote from one of the Three Stooges I believe, "I'm trying
> to think, but nothing happens."
>
> You've got to start paying more attention when smart responses to your
> blurted, and all too common, misconceptions are provided for you.

How I wish I knew which ones are the smart responses...

(So no to loading with carbs before bed is a misconception?)

> These folks won't put up with you forever you know.
> - bc

Thanks for the warning.

bc
July 29th 04, 02:36 AM
On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 22:46:01 GMT, 223rem > wrote:

>
>
>bc wrote:
>> 223rem > wrote in message m>...
>>
>>>Jeff Finlayson wrote:
>>>
>>>>223rem wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Steve Freides wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>He could also try having more carbs the night before - works for me -
>>>>>>and again after the workout.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Carbs before bed? I think they would get transformed into fat...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Watch that thinking stuff..
>>>
>>>I'm trying. Its very hard.
>>
>>
>> There's a quote from one of the Three Stooges I believe, "I'm trying
>> to think, but nothing happens."
>>
>> You've got to start paying more attention when smart responses to your
>> blurted, and all too common, misconceptions are provided for you.
>
>How I wish I knew which ones are the smart responses...

Aye, there's the rub.

>
>(So no to loading with carbs before bed is a misconception?)

Who said "loading?" Stop changing the discussion in the middle of
your responses.

Your body stores excess chemical energy in the form of fat when it
doesn't need that energy to meet its current demands. If you eat
carbs before bed, but your body is really needing those calories, you
won't store any as fat. If you eat more calories than necessary, no
matter the source or time of day, your body will store them in fat.

>
>> These folks won't put up with you forever you know.
>> - bc
>
>Thanks for the warning.

De nada.

- bc
- bc

223rem
July 29th 04, 03:08 AM
bc wrote:
>
>
> Your body stores excess chemical energy in the form of fat when it
> doesn't need that energy to meet its current demands. If you eat
> carbs before bed, but your body is really needing those calories, you
> won't store any as fat.

Unless you have to engage in vigorous sex, there is little need for
extra calories when going to bed.

Art S
July 29th 04, 05:33 AM
"223rem" > wrote in message
gy.com...
>
>
> bc wrote:
> >
> >
> > Your body stores excess chemical energy in the form of fat when it
> > doesn't need that energy to meet its current demands. If you eat
> > carbs before bed, but your body is really needing those calories, you
> > won't store any as fat.
>
> Unless you have to engage in vigorous sex, there is little need for
> extra calories when going to bed.
>

For sake of discussion, lets say we are talking about 500 calories. (The
actual number doesn't matter - change it if you wish).

Pragmatically speaking, provided total calories and macronutrients
throughout the day are the same, what is the difference in eating 500
calories [in carbs, if you prefer] only before 6 pm (arbitrary time -
change it, if you prefer), only before some type of activity (so if
someone is sedentary after 4 pm, no carbs after 4 pm), at least 2
hours before going to bed (arbitrary amount of time - change it if
you prefer), and eating them whenever?

Art

bc
July 29th 04, 05:34 AM
On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 02:08:19 GMT, 223rem > wrote:

>
>
>bc wrote:
>>
>>
>> Your body stores excess chemical energy in the form of fat when it
>> doesn't need that energy to meet its current demands. If you eat
>> carbs before bed, but your body is really needing those calories, you
>> won't store any as fat.
>
>Unless you have to engage in vigorous sex, there is little need for
>extra calories when going to bed.

unless you're trying to gain weight, build muscle mass, or plan not to
eat enough the next day.

Really, you've got to get out of your ego-centric predicament.

- bc

223rem
July 29th 04, 05:44 AM
bc wrote:
> On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 02:08:19 GMT, 223rem > wrote:
>
>
>>
>>bc wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Your body stores excess chemical energy in the form of fat when it
>>>doesn't need that energy to meet its current demands. If you eat
>>>carbs before bed, but your body is really needing those calories, you
>>>won't store any as fat.
>>
>>Unless you have to engage in vigorous sex, there is little need for
>>extra calories when going to bed.
>
>
> unless you're trying to gain weight, build muscle mass, or plan not to
> eat enough the next day.

Eating carbs before bed is not gonna help you build muscle mass.
Gain weight, yes. Not the kind of weight you want though.


> Really, you've got to get out of your ego-centric predicament.

Believe me, I am trying... Thats yet another hard thing to do...
this newsgroup really *is* about overcoming one's limitations!

223rem
July 29th 04, 05:48 AM
Art S wrote:
> "223rem" > wrote in message
> gy.com...
>
>>
>>bc wrote:
>>[i]
>>>
>>>Your body stores excess chemical energy in the form of fat when it
>>>doesn't need that energy to meet its current demands. If you eat
>>>carbs before bed, but your body is really needing those calories, you
>>>won't store any as fat.
>>
>>Unless you have to engage in vigorous sex, there is little need for
>>extra calories when going to bed.
>>
>
>
> For sake of discussion, lets say we are talking about 500 calories. (The
> actual number doesn't matter - change it if you wish).
>
> Pragmatically speaking, provided total calories and macronutrients
> throughout the day are the same, what is the difference in eating 500
> calories only before 6 pm (arbitrary time -
> change it, if you prefer), only before some type of activity (so if
> someone is sedentary after 4 pm, no carbs after 4 pm), at least 2
> hours before going to bed (arbitrary amount of time - change it if
> you prefer), and eating them whenever?

To clarify, I was referring to carbs.
If the glycogen reserves are not depleted then whatever carbs you ingest
in the evening (no physical activity for 8 hours or so) is gonna
be transformed into fat.

bc
July 29th 04, 05:53 AM
On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 04:33:20 GMT, "Art S" >
wrote:

>
>"223rem" > wrote in message
gy.com...
>>
>>
>> bc wrote:[i]
>> >
>> >
>> > Your body stores excess chemical energy in the form of fat when it
>> > doesn't need that energy to meet its current demands. If you eat
>> > carbs before bed, but your body is really needing those calories, you
>> > won't store any as fat.
>>
>> Unless you have to engage in vigorous sex, there is little need for
>> extra calories when going to bed.
>>
>
>For sake of discussion, lets say we are talking about 500 calories. (The
>actual number doesn't matter - change it if you wish).
>
>Pragmatically speaking, provided total calories and macronutrients
>throughout the day are the same, what is the difference in eating 500
>calories only before 6 pm (arbitrary time -
>change it, if you prefer), only before some type of activity (so if
>someone is sedentary after 4 pm, no carbs after 4 pm), at least 2
>hours before going to bed (arbitrary amount of time - change it if
>you prefer), and eating them whenever?
>
>Art
>

He already said they turn to fat. Don't ask him, even rhetorically.
If he really knew, we wouldn't be talking about this.

- bc

223rem
July 29th 04, 05:55 AM
bc wrote:

>
> He already said they turn to fat. Don't ask him, even rhetorically.
> If he really knew, we wouldn't be talking about this.
>
> - bc

Carbs before bed will turn to fat. Yes. Too un-nuanced for you?

Proton Soup
July 29th 04, 06:01 AM
On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 04:48:43 GMT, 223rem > wrote:

>
>
>Art S wrote:
>> "223rem" > wrote in message
>> gy.com...
>>[i]
>>>
>>>bc wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Your body stores excess chemical energy in the form of fat when it
>>>>doesn't need that energy to meet its current demands. If you eat
>>>>carbs before bed, but your body is really needing those calories, you
>>>>won't store any as fat.
>>>
>>>Unless you have to engage in vigorous sex, there is little need for
>>>extra calories when going to bed.
>>>
>>
>>
>> For sake of discussion, lets say we are talking about 500 calories. (The
>> actual number doesn't matter - change it if you wish).
>>
>> Pragmatically speaking, provided total calories and macronutrients
>> throughout the day are the same, what is the difference in eating 500
>> calories only before 6 pm (arbitrary time -
>> change it, if you prefer), only before some type of activity (so if
>> someone is sedentary after 4 pm, no carbs after 4 pm), at least 2
>> hours before going to bed (arbitrary amount of time - change it if
>> you prefer), and eating them whenever?
>
>To clarify, I was referring to carbs.
>If the glycogen reserves are not depleted then whatever carbs you ingest
>in the evening (no physical activity for 8 hours or so) is gonna
>be transformed into fat.

And then what happens?

-----------
Proton Soup

"Homo sapiens non urinat in ventum."

bc
July 29th 04, 06:10 AM
On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 04:55:17 GMT, 223rem > wrote:

>
>
>bc wrote:
>
>>
>> He already said they turn to fat. Don't ask him, even rhetorically.
>> If he really knew, we wouldn't be talking about this.
>>
>> - bc
>
>Carbs before bed will turn to fat. Yes. Too un-nuanced for you?

Nuance? I understood how confused you were the first time. Repeating
yourself doesn't make you appear more correct, just less intelligent.

So, 223, have you even done any real research on this? Oops, another
rhetorical question. Sorry. It's obvious you haven't.

- bc

bc
July 29th 04, 06:10 AM
On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 04:44:55 GMT, 223rem > wrote:

>
>
>bc wrote:
>> On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 02:08:19 GMT, 223rem > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>>bc wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Your body stores excess chemical energy in the form of fat when it
>>>>doesn't need that energy to meet its current demands. If you eat
>>>>carbs before bed, but your body is really needing those calories, you
>>>>won't store any as fat.
>>>
>>>Unless you have to engage in vigorous sex, there is little need for
>>>extra calories when going to bed.
>>
>>
>> unless you're trying to gain weight, build muscle mass, or plan not to
>> eat enough the next day.
>
>Eating carbs before bed is not gonna help you build muscle mass.
>Gain weight, yes. Not the kind of weight you want though.
>
>
>> Really, you've got to get out of your ego-centric predicament.
>
>Believe me, I am trying... Thats yet another hard thing to do...
>this newsgroup really *is* about overcoming one's limitations!

If you say so. So far, you're not helping me any.

- bc

Larry Hodges
July 29th 04, 06:40 AM
223rem wrote:
> Art S wrote:
>> "223rem" > wrote in message
>> gy.com...
>>[i]
>>>
>>> bc wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Your body stores excess chemical energy in the form of fat when it
>>>> doesn't need that energy to meet its current demands. If you eat
>>>> carbs before bed, but your body is really needing those calories,
>>>> you won't store any as fat.
>>>
>>> Unless you have to engage in vigorous sex, there is little need for
>>> extra calories when going to bed.
>>>
>>
>>
>> For sake of discussion, lets say we are talking about 500 calories.
>> (The actual number doesn't matter - change it if you wish).
>>
>> Pragmatically speaking, provided total calories and macronutrients
>> throughout the day are the same, what is the difference in eating 500
>> calories only before 6 pm (arbitrary time -
>> change it, if you prefer), only before some type of activity (so if
>> someone is sedentary after 4 pm, no carbs after 4 pm), at least 2
>> hours before going to bed (arbitrary amount of time - change it if
>> you prefer), and eating them whenever?
>
> To clarify, I was referring to carbs.
> If the glycogen reserves are not depleted then whatever carbs you
> ingest in the evening (no physical activity for 8 hours or so) is
> gonna
> be transformed into fat.

This issue isn't carb / no carbs...the issue is whether or not you're
exceeding your calorie requirements for the day. Period. That's what
everybody is trying to get you to understand.
--
-Larry

Art S
July 29th 04, 06:47 AM
"223rem" > wrote in message
gy.com...
>
>
> bc wrote:
>
> >
> > He already said they turn to fat. Don't ask him, even rhetorically.
> > If he really knew, we wouldn't be talking about this.
> >
> > - bc
>
> Carbs before bed will turn to fat. Yes. Too un-nuanced for you?
>

The fundamental question is what is the difference between:
A: eat 500 calories of carbs; exercise (500 calories of energy required?);
relax and
B: exercise (500 calories of energy required?); eat 500 calories of carbs;
relax.

when both are considered over a full day?

Why does the first result in the calories being used to exercise and the
second result in the calories being stored as fat? If this view is correct,
then repeating the first scenario results in no change while the second will
result in gaining weight.

Art

Lee Michaels
July 29th 04, 06:54 AM
"223rem" babbled
>
> To clarify, I was referring to carbs.
> If the glycogen reserves are not depleted then whatever carbs you ingest
> in the evening (no physical activity for 8 hours or so) is gonna
> be transformed into fat.
>

Minor caliber is at it again. He gots this endless loop going on in his
head and he can't make it stop.

Tell me minor caliber, what happens if i eat a booger before bed?? Will that
be converted to fat too?

Marv
July 29th 04, 06:59 AM
(bc) wrote in message >...
> Jeff Finlayson > wrote in message >...
> > Marv wrote:
> >
> > > Now that I've got your attention, I kindly request to read on and give
> > > your expert comments/suggestions.
>
> > Humm, sounds familar.
> > http://www.drsquat.com/index.cfm?action=viewtopic&forumID=2&rootthreadID=145584&context=7
>
> Well, maybe Ryan/Marv/whoever couldn't think of anything to say here.
> Sad really, given all the fun things we talk about.
>
> - bc

not really Jeff / bc, I do have a lot to say.

Infact I just posted this yesterday and its only now that I got a
chance to log on.

I'd like to thank everyone for their extremely useful thoughts /
comments / suggestions etc.

I totally agree with "bc" MFW is a fun place to be in, I've gained a
lot of valuable information from here, infact I got throught the nitty
gritty stuff of working out during my initial stages of weight lifting
right from HERE.

Althought you will admit that the some of the folks around here tend
to deviate from the "main topic of discussion" and thats the reason I
posted the same topic on "drsquats.com" hoping to get the best answers
from both the groups.

By the way Ryan or Marv.. neither happens to be my name as am pretty
sure is quite common in discussion groups.

Nonetheless, I'm thankful to all.
Cheers.

223rem
July 29th 04, 07:34 AM
Art S wrote:
> "223rem" > wrote in message
> gy.com...
>
>>
>>bc wrote:
>>
>>
>>>He already said they turn to fat. Don't ask him, even rhetorically.
>>>If he really knew, we wouldn't be talking about this.
>>>
>>>- bc
>>
>>Carbs before bed will turn to fat. Yes. Too un-nuanced for you?
>>
>
>
> The fundamental question is what is the difference between:
> A: eat 500 calories of carbs; exercise (500 calories of energy required?);
> relax and
> B: exercise (500 calories of energy required?); eat 500 calories of carbs;
> relax.
>
> when both are considered over a full day?

Scenario B:

It depends on the time elapsed between exercise and meal. If you exercise
and do not eat soon after that, then the blood glucose and muscle/liver
glycogen levels are going to be restored at the expense of the fat reserves.

So a meal in the evening is not going to be 'canceled' retroactively by exercise performed
earlier in the day.


Of course, IMHO, etc, etc.

Jeff Finlayson
July 29th 04, 03:58 PM
Marv wrote:
> bc wrote:
>> Jeff Finlayson wrote:
>>> Marv wrote:

>>>Humm, sounds familar.
>>>http://www.drsquat.com/index.cfm?action=viewtopic&forumID=2&rootthreadID=145584&context=7
>>
>>Well, maybe Ryan/Marv/whoever couldn't think of anything to say here.
>>Sad really, given all the fun things we talk about.
>>- bc
>
> not really Jeff / bc, I do have a lot to say.

I didn't say otherwise.

> Infact I just posted this yesterday and its only now that I got a
> chance to log on.
>
> I'd like to thank everyone for their extremely useful thoughts /
> comments / suggestions etc.
>
> I totally agree with "bc" MFW is a fun place to be in, I've gained a
> lot of valuable information from here, infact I got throught the nitty
> gritty stuff of working out during my initial stages of weight lifting
> right from HERE.
>
> Althought you will admit that the some of the folks around here tend
> to deviate from the "main topic of discussion" and thats the reason I
> posted the same topic on "drsquats.com" hoping to get the best answers
> from both the groups.
>
> By the way Ryan or Marv.. neither happens to be my name as am pretty
> sure is quite common in discussion groups.

Probably so, but it's mostly trolls that use fake names on MFW.
Not saying you are..

Art S
July 29th 04, 05:17 PM
"223rem" > wrote in message
gy.com...
>
>
> Art S wrote:
> > "223rem" > wrote in message
> > gy.com...
> >
> >>
> >>bc wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>He already said they turn to fat. Don't ask him, even rhetorically.
> >>>If he really knew, we wouldn't be talking about this.
> >>>
> >>>- bc
> >>
> >>Carbs before bed will turn to fat. Yes. Too un-nuanced for you?
> >>
> >
> >
> > The fundamental question is what is the difference between:
> > A: eat 500 calories of carbs; exercise (500 calories of energy required?);
> > relax and
> > B: exercise (500 calories of energy required?); eat 500 calories of carbs;
> > relax.
> >
> > when both are considered over a full day?
>
> Scenario B:
>
> It depends on the time elapsed between exercise and meal. If you exercise
> and do not eat soon after that, then the blood glucose and muscle/liver
> glycogen levels are going to be restored at the expense of the fat reserves.
>
> So a meal in the evening is not going to be 'canceled' retroactively by exercise performed
> earlier in the day.
>
>
> Of course, IMHO, etc, etc.
>

So, if I'm following, in case A the carbs are used directly for energy
during the exercise, with no net change. In case B, if you eat shortly
after exercising, the carbs are used to replace the blood glucose and
muscle/liver glycogen levels for no net change. In case B, if you eat
much later after exercising, fat reserves will be used to replenish blood
glucose and muscle/liver glycogen levels and then the carbs will be
used to replenish the fat reserves.

Is that correct?

If so, pragmatically speaking, what is the difference?

Art

John M. Williams
July 29th 04, 06:02 PM
"Art S" > wrote:
>"223rem" > wrote:
>> Art S wrote:
>> > "223rem" > wrote:
>> >>bc wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>He already said they turn to fat. Don't ask him, even rhetorically.
>> >>>If he really knew, we wouldn't be talking about this.
>> >>
>> >>Carbs before bed will turn to fat. Yes. Too un-nuanced for you?
>> >
>> > The fundamental question is what is the difference between:
>> > A: eat 500 calories of carbs; exercise (500 calories of energy required?);
>> > relax and
>> > B: exercise (500 calories of energy required?); eat 500 calories of carbs;
>> > relax.
>> >
>> > when both are considered over a full day?
>>
>> Scenario B:
>>
>> It depends on the time elapsed between exercise and meal. If you exercise
>> and do not eat soon after that, then the blood glucose and muscle/liver
>> glycogen levels are going to be restored at the expense of the fat reserves.
>>
>> So a meal in the evening is not going to be 'canceled' retroactively by exercise performed
>> earlier in the day.
>>
>>
>> Of course, IMHO, etc, etc.
>>
>
>So, if I'm following, in case A the carbs are used directly for energy
>during the exercise, with no net change. In case B, if you eat shortly
>after exercising, the carbs are used to replace the blood glucose and
>muscle/liver glycogen levels for no net change. In case B, if you eat
>much later after exercising, fat reserves will be used to replenish blood
>glucose and muscle/liver glycogen levels and then the carbs will be
>used to replenish the fat reserves.
>
>Is that correct?
>
>If so, pragmatically speaking, what is the difference?

Based upon what I have read, when it comes to anaerobic exercise,
carbohydrate consumption has little to do with actually providing
energy for the exercise. It is much more related to the
anti-catabolic effect of insulin release. And that seems to be an
aspect which nobody is discussing here.

223rem
July 29th 04, 06:13 PM
Art S wrote:
> "223rem" > wrote in message
> gy.com...
>
>>
>>Art S wrote:
>>
>>>"223rem" > wrote in message
gy.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>>bc wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>He already said they turn to fat. Don't ask him, even rhetorically.
>>>>>If he really knew, we wouldn't be talking about this.
>>>>>
>>>>>- bc
>>>>
>>>>Carbs before bed will turn to fat. Yes. Too un-nuanced for you?
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>The fundamental question is what is the difference between:
>>>A: eat 500 calories of carbs; exercise (500 calories of energy required?);
>>> relax and
>>>B: exercise (500 calories of energy required?); eat 500 calories of carbs;
>>> relax.
>>>
>>>when both are considered over a full day?
>>
>>Scenario B:
>>
>>It depends on the time elapsed between exercise and meal. If you exercise
>>and do not eat soon after that, then the blood glucose and muscle/liver
>>glycogen levels are going to be restored at the expense of the fat reserves.
>>
>>So a meal in the evening is not going to be 'canceled' retroactively by exercise performed
>>earlier in the day.
>>
>>
>>Of course, IMHO, etc, etc.
>>
>
>
> So, if I'm following, in case A the carbs are used directly for energy
> during the exercise, with no net change. In case B, if you eat shortly
> after exercising, the carbs are used to replace the blood glucose and
> muscle/liver glycogen levels for no net change. In case B, if you eat
> much later after exercising, fat reserves will be used to replenish blood
> glucose and muscle/liver glycogen levels and then the carbs will be
> used to replenish the fat reserves.
>
> Is that correct?
>
> If so, pragmatically speaking, what is the difference?
>

You are correct of course; an energy conservation principle applies.
However, from a practical standpoint, if you are not really hungry
(blood glucose = normal) it is not a good idea to eat.

Hugh Beyer
July 29th 04, 06:13 PM
"Lee Michaels" > wrote in
news:Ki0Oc.177863$%[email protected]_s01:

> "223rem" babbled
>>
>> To clarify, I was referring to carbs.
>> If the glycogen reserves are not depleted then whatever carbs you
>> ingest in the evening (no physical activity for 8 hours or so) is gonna
>> be transformed into fat.
>>
>
> Minor caliber is at it again. He gots this endless loop going on in his
> head and he can't make it stop.
>
> Tell me minor caliber, what happens if i eat a booger before bed?? Will
> that be converted to fat too?


Depends on whether you add ketchup and mustard and a bun.

Hugh


--
No puppies were harmed in the creation of this post.

John HUDSON
July 29th 04, 06:47 PM
On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 13:02:32 -0400, John M. Williams
> wrote:

>"Art S" > wrote:
>>"223rem" > wrote:
>>> Art S wrote:
>>> > "223rem" > wrote:
>>> >>bc wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>>He already said they turn to fat. Don't ask him, even rhetorically.
>>> >>>If he really knew, we wouldn't be talking about this.
>>> >>
>>> >>Carbs before bed will turn to fat. Yes. Too un-nuanced for you?
>>> >
>>> > The fundamental question is what is the difference between:
>>> > A: eat 500 calories of carbs; exercise (500 calories of energy required?);
>>> > relax and
>>> > B: exercise (500 calories of energy required?); eat 500 calories of carbs;
>>> > relax.
>>> >
>>> > when both are considered over a full day?
>>>
>>> Scenario B:
>>>
>>> It depends on the time elapsed between exercise and meal. If you exercise
>>> and do not eat soon after that, then the blood glucose and muscle/liver
>>> glycogen levels are going to be restored at the expense of the fat reserves.
>>>
>>> So a meal in the evening is not going to be 'canceled' retroactively by exercise performed
>>> earlier in the day.
>>>
>>>
>>> Of course, IMHO, etc, etc.
>>>
>>
>>So, if I'm following, in case A the carbs are used directly for energy
>>during the exercise, with no net change. In case B, if you eat shortly
>>after exercising, the carbs are used to replace the blood glucose and
>>muscle/liver glycogen levels for no net change. In case B, if you eat
>>much later after exercising, fat reserves will be used to replenish blood
>>glucose and muscle/liver glycogen levels and then the carbs will be
>>used to replenish the fat reserves.
>>
>>Is that correct?
>>
>>If so, pragmatically speaking, what is the difference?
>
>Based upon what I have read, when it comes to anaerobic exercise,
>carbohydrate consumption has little to do with actually providing
>energy for the exercise. It is much more related to the
>anti-catabolic effect of insulin release. And that seems to be an
>aspect which nobody is discussing here.

To be perfectly frank John, that doesn't surprise me one little bit!

Peter Allen
July 29th 04, 07:45 PM
bc > wrote in message >...
> On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 04:33:20 GMT, "Art S" >
> wrote:
>
> >For sake of discussion, lets say we are talking about 500 calories. (The
> >actual number doesn't matter - change it if you wish).
> >
> >Pragmatically speaking, provided total calories and macronutrients
> >throughout the day are the same, what is the difference in eating 500
> >calories [in carbs, if you prefer] only before 6 pm (arbitrary time -
> >change it, if you prefer), only before some type of activity (so if
> >someone is sedentary after 4 pm, no carbs after 4 pm), at least 2
> >hours before going to bed (arbitrary amount of time - change it if
> >you prefer), and eating them whenever?
> >
> >Art
> >
>
> He already said they turn to fat. Don't ask him, even rhetorically.
> If he really knew, we wouldn't be talking about this.

If you are doing exercise, your body will get energy from somewhere;
when you eat your body will store the energy you've eaten.
So presumably you can argue that if you are on a calorie-controlled
maintenance diet, and you're eating a lot of your calories in the
evening, then it is _possible_ that some of the energy your body
required to do the exercise earlier in the day came from your muscle
tissue, which then doesn't get replaced when you eat later, so you end
up losing muscle and gaining fat.

However I think what you're saying is that in practice that does not
happen with people not doing something totally screwed up (like doing
3 hours exercise in the morning and not eating till 9pm).

Peter

Lyle McDonald
July 29th 04, 07:56 PM
Peter Allen wrote:
> bc > wrote in message >...
>
>>On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 04:33:20 GMT, "Art S" >
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>>For sake of discussion, lets say we are talking about 500 calories. (The
>>>actual number doesn't matter - change it if you wish).
>>>
>>>Pragmatically speaking, provided total calories and macronutrients
>>>throughout the day are the same, what is the difference in eating 500
>>>calories [in carbs, if you prefer] only before 6 pm (arbitrary time -
>>>change it, if you prefer), only before some type of activity (so if
>>>someone is sedentary after 4 pm, no carbs after 4 pm), at least 2
>>>hours before going to bed (arbitrary amount of time - change it if
>>>you prefer), and eating them whenever?
>>>
>>>Art
>>>
>>
>>He already said they turn to fat. Don't ask him, even rhetorically.
>>If he really knew, we wouldn't be talking about this.
>
>
> If you are doing exercise, your body will get energy from somewhere;
> when you eat your body will store the energy you've eaten.
> So presumably you can argue that if you are on a calorie-controlled
> maintenance diet, and you're eating a lot of your calories in the
> evening, then it is _possible_ that some of the energy your body
> required to do the exercise earlier in the day came from your muscle
> tissue, which then doesn't get replaced when you eat later, so you end
> up losing muscle and gaining fat.
>
> However I think what you're saying is that in practice that does not
> happen with people not doing something totally screwed up (like doing
> 3 hours exercise in the morning and not eating till 9pm).

Warrior Diet?

Lyle

Donovan Rebbechi
July 30th 04, 12:03 AM
On 2004-07-29, 223rem > wrote:

> You are correct of course; an energy conservation principle applies.
> However, from a practical standpoint, if you are not really hungry
> (blood glucose = normal) it is not a good idea to eat.

Why is this ? The point is that if you have a chronic energy deficit, it does
not matter when and how you eat. Sure, you may sometimes "buffer" energy during
periods of high consumption (as glycogen or even adipose tissue, though that's
unlikely), but as long as there's a chronic deficit, your energy stores must be
depleted, and since you only have a couple of thousand calories worth of
glycogen, a long term deficit must be paid off by mobilising stored fat.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Elzinator
July 30th 04, 12:20 AM
"Art S" > wrote in message news:<Nq9Oc.151929
> "223rem" > wrote in message
> > Art S wrote:

> > > The fundamental question is what is the difference between:
> > > A: eat 500 calories of carbs; exercise (500 calories of energy required?); relax and
> > > B: exercise (500 calories of energy required?); eat 500 calories of carbs; relax.
> > >
> > > when both are considered over a full day?
> >
> > Scenario B:
> >
> > It depends on the time elapsed between exercise and meal. If you exercise
> > and do not eat soon after that, then the blood glucose and muscle/liver
> > glycogen levels are going to be restored at the expense of the fat reserves.
> >
> > So a meal in the evening is not going to be 'canceled' retroactively by exercise performed
> > earlier in the day.
> >
>
> So, if I'm following, in case A the carbs are used directly for energy
> during the exercise, with no net change.

In aneorobic exericse, the fuel of preference for the contractile
machinery is muscle glycogen. Blood glucose will have less importance.
(see the first part -Fueling the Power- of this article for a brief
explanation of the systems:
http://www.goendurance.com/a93_Citrulline_Malate.html

The main benefits of ingesting carbs before (and during) a workout
session are:

1. anti-catabolic by two mechanisms: decreases cortisol production,
and the responsive insulin spike counteracts protein degradation,
mostly by cortisol (inhibits the ubiquitin-protein degradation pathway
by two independent pathways). This is demonstrated in both anaerobic
and aerobic exercise.

2. Fuels the CNS system, reducing CNS fatigue.

>In case B, if you eat shortly
> after exercising, the carbs are used to replace the blood glucose and
> muscle/liver glycogen levels for no net change.

That depends on how much muscle glycogen is depeleted (and liver
glycogen)and the amount of carbs ingested. Typical resistance training
workouts don't really use alot of calories (and stored carbs) unless
one is partially glycogen depleted before training. Anyone that has
done a depletion workout knows what volume is required to deplete
muscle glycogen to any significant extent. And glucose uptake in
muscle mass takes place only in the muscles worked. That is why a
whole body workout and/or compound exercises are so effective at
increasing whole body glucose clearance.


>In case B, if you eat
> much later after exercising, fat reserves will be used to replenish blood
> glucose and muscle/liver glycogen levels and then the carbs will be
> used to replenish the fat reserves.

Body fat is very inefficient at replacing energy stores except for
circulating free fatty acids. Blood glucose will be replenished by
stores in the liver and muscle more efficently than fat reserves.

> Is that correct?
>
> If so, pragmatically speaking, what is the difference?

Ingest a small amount of carbs immediately before or during the
workout (adding some protein is even better), then some afterwards to
replenish muscle glycogen stores.

Art S
July 30th 04, 06:50 AM
"John M. Williams" > wrote in message
...
> "Art S" > wrote:
> >"223rem" > wrote:
> >> Art S wrote:
> >> > "223rem" > wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>Carbs before bed will turn to fat. Yes. Too un-nuanced for you?
> >> >
> >> > The fundamental question is what is the difference between:
> >> > A: eat 500 calories of carbs; exercise (500 calories of energy required?);
> >> > relax and
> >> > B: exercise (500 calories of energy required?); eat 500 calories of carbs;
> >> > relax.
> >> >
> >> > when both are considered over a full day?
> >>
> >> Scenario B:
> >>
> >> It depends on the time elapsed between exercise and meal. If you exercise
> >> and do not eat soon after that, then the blood glucose and muscle/liver
> >> glycogen levels are going to be restored at the expense of the fat reserves.
> >>
> >> So a meal in the evening is not going to be 'canceled' retroactively by exercise performed
> >> earlier in the day.
> >>
> >>
> >> Of course, IMHO, etc, etc.
> >>
> >
> >So, if I'm following, in case A the carbs are used directly for energy
> >during the exercise, with no net change. In case B, if you eat shortly
> >after exercising, the carbs are used to replace the blood glucose and
> >muscle/liver glycogen levels for no net change. In case B, if you eat
> >much later after exercising, fat reserves will be used to replenish blood
> >glucose and muscle/liver glycogen levels and then the carbs will be
> >used to replenish the fat reserves.
> >
> >Is that correct?
> >
> >If so, pragmatically speaking, what is the difference?
>
> Based upon what I have read, when it comes to anaerobic exercise,
> carbohydrate consumption has little to do with actually providing
> energy for the exercise. It is much more related to the
> anti-catabolic effect of insulin release. And that seems to be an
> aspect which nobody is discussing here.

That's because the original topic under discussion was that if you
eat before exercising, you burn the calories and they don't get stored
as fat. If, however, you exercise and then eat, they get stored as
fat.

The point you are raising (I think - sorry if I'm wrong) is how eating
(and, indirectly, insulin release) affects anaerobic exercise and
muscle catabolization.

Art

Art S
July 30th 04, 06:53 AM
"223rem" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Art S wrote:
> > "223rem" > wrote in message
> > gy.com...
> >
> >>
> >>Art S wrote:
> >>
> >>>"223rem" > wrote in message
> gy.com...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>bc wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>He already said they turn to fat. Don't ask him, even rhetorically.
> >>>>>If he really knew, we wouldn't be talking about this.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>- bc
> >>>>
> >>>>Carbs before bed will turn to fat. Yes. Too un-nuanced for you?
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>The fundamental question is what is the difference between:
> >>>A: eat 500 calories of carbs; exercise (500 calories of energy required?);
> >>> relax and
> >>>B: exercise (500 calories of energy required?); eat 500 calories of carbs;
> >>> relax.
> >>>
> >>>when both are considered over a full day?
> >>
> >>Scenario B:
> >>
> >>It depends on the time elapsed between exercise and meal. If you exercise
> >>and do not eat soon after that, then the blood glucose and muscle/liver
> >>glycogen levels are going to be restored at the expense of the fat reserves.
> >>
> >>So a meal in the evening is not going to be 'canceled' retroactively by exercise performed
> >>earlier in the day.
> >>
> >>
> >>Of course, IMHO, etc, etc.
> >>
> >
> >
> > So, if I'm following, in case A the carbs are used directly for energy
> > during the exercise, with no net change. In case B, if you eat shortly
> > after exercising, the carbs are used to replace the blood glucose and
> > muscle/liver glycogen levels for no net change. In case B, if you eat
> > much later after exercising, fat reserves will be used to replenish blood
> > glucose and muscle/liver glycogen levels and then the carbs will be
> > used to replenish the fat reserves.
> >
> > Is that correct?
> >
> > If so, pragmatically speaking, what is the difference?
> >
>
> You are correct of course; an energy conservation principle applies.

OK, does that mean you changed your mind about
"Carbs before bed will turn to fat. Yes. Too"?

> However, from a practical standpoint, if you are not really hungry
> (blood glucose = normal) it is not a good idea to eat.

Totally different matter. Also irrelevant to the discussion.

Art

Art S
July 30th 04, 07:15 AM
"Elzinator" > wrote in message
om...
> "Art S" > wrote in message news:<Nq9Oc.151929
> > "223rem" > wrote in message
> > > Art S wrote:
>
> > > > The fundamental question is what is the difference between:
> > > > A: eat 500 calories of carbs; exercise (500 calories of energy required?); relax and
> > > > B: exercise (500 calories of energy required?); eat 500 calories of carbs; relax.
> > > >
> > > > when both are considered over a full day?
> > >
> > > Scenario B:
> > >
> > > It depends on the time elapsed between exercise and meal. If you exercise
> > > and do not eat soon after that, then the blood glucose and muscle/liver
> > > glycogen levels are going to be restored at the expense of the fat reserves.
> > >
> > > So a meal in the evening is not going to be 'canceled' retroactively by exercise performed
> > > earlier in the day.
> > >
> >
> > So, if I'm following, in case A the carbs are used directly for energy
> > during the exercise, with no net change.
>
> In aneorobic exericse, the fuel of preference for the contractile
> machinery is muscle glycogen. Blood glucose will have less importance.
> (see the first part -Fueling the Power- of this article for a brief
> explanation of the systems:
> http://www.goendurance.com/a93_Citrulline_Malate.html
>
> The main benefits of ingesting carbs before (and during) a workout
> session are:
>
> 1. anti-catabolic by two mechanisms: decreases cortisol production,
> and the responsive insulin spike counteracts protein degradation,
> mostly by cortisol (inhibits the ubiquitin-protein degradation pathway
> by two independent pathways). This is demonstrated in both anaerobic
> and aerobic exercise.
>
> 2. Fuels the CNS system, reducing CNS fatigue.
>
> >In case B, if you eat shortly
> > after exercising, the carbs are used to replace the blood glucose and
> > muscle/liver glycogen levels for no net change.
>
> That depends on how much muscle glycogen is depeleted (and liver
> glycogen)and the amount of carbs ingested. Typical resistance training
> workouts don't really use alot of calories (and stored carbs) unless
> one is partially glycogen depleted before training. Anyone that has
> done a depletion workout knows what volume is required to deplete
> muscle glycogen to any significant extent. And glucose uptake in
> muscle mass takes place only in the muscles worked. That is why a
> whole body workout and/or compound exercises are so effective at
> increasing whole body glucose clearance.
>
>
> >In case B, if you eat
> > much later after exercising, fat reserves will be used to replenish blood
> > glucose and muscle/liver glycogen levels and then the carbs will be
> > used to replenish the fat reserves.
>
> Body fat is very inefficient at replacing energy stores except for
> circulating free fatty acids. Blood glucose will be replenished by
> stores in the liver and muscle more efficently than fat reserves.
>
> > Is that correct?
> >
> > If so, pragmatically speaking, what is the difference?
>
> Ingest a small amount of carbs immediately before or during the
> workout (adding some protein is even better), then some afterwards to
> replenish muscle glycogen stores.

Looks interesting, but I'll need to reread it when I can think.

Thanks for the info.

Art

Mick R.
July 30th 04, 11:06 AM
"Lyle McDonald" > wrote in message
...
> Peter Allen wrote:
> > bc > wrote in message
>...
> >
> >>On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 04:33:20 GMT, "Art S" >
> >>wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>For sake of discussion, lets say we are talking about 500 calories.
(The
> >>>actual number doesn't matter - change it if you wish).
> >>>
> >>>Pragmatically speaking, provided total calories and macronutrients
> >>>throughout the day are the same, what is the difference in eating 500
> >>>calories [in carbs, if you prefer] only before 6 pm (arbitrary time -
> >>>change it, if you prefer), only before some type of activity (so if
> >>>someone is sedentary after 4 pm, no carbs after 4 pm), at least 2
> >>>hours before going to bed (arbitrary amount of time - change it if
> >>>you prefer), and eating them whenever?
> >>>
> >>>Art
> >>>
> >>
> >>He already said they turn to fat. Don't ask him, even rhetorically.
> >>If he really knew, we wouldn't be talking about this.
> >
> >
> > If you are doing exercise, your body will get energy from somewhere;
> > when you eat your body will store the energy you've eaten.
> > So presumably you can argue that if you are on a calorie-controlled
> > maintenance diet, and you're eating a lot of your calories in the
> > evening, then it is _possible_ that some of the energy your body
> > required to do the exercise earlier in the day came from your muscle
> > tissue, which then doesn't get replaced when you eat later, so you end
> > up losing muscle and gaining fat.
> >
> > However I think what you're saying is that in practice that does not
> > happen with people not doing something totally screwed up (like doing
> > 3 hours exercise in the morning and not eating till 9pm).
>
> Warrior Diet?
>
> Lyle
>
Prune juice: warrior's drink.

Marv
July 30th 04, 11:20 AM
OK so from all the mixed responses that I've got from here and
drsquats, I can safely deduce the fact that Evening Workouts ARE
better than Morning Workouts.

Damn!! my worst fear has been proved right, guess I'll have to make do
with the morning routine and settle for less :(

Mick R.
July 30th 04, 11:27 PM
"Marv" > wrote in message
m...
> OK so from all the mixed responses that I've got from here and
> drsquats, I can safely deduce the fact that Evening Workouts ARE
> better than Morning Workouts.
>
> Damn!! my worst fear has been proved right, guess I'll have to make do
> with the morning routine and settle for less :(

No you don't "settle for less" you make the most of the time that you DO
have.

What is with this whole "glass is half empty" crap in the gym!?!
--
Mick R.

Until you get pretty good at it, deadlifting is 90% half mental. - Wayne S.
Hill

elzinator
July 31st 04, 12:49 AM
On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 05:50:11 GMT, Art S wrote:

>That's because the original topic under discussion was that if you
>eat before exercising, you burn the calories and they don't get stored
>as fat. If, however, you exercise and then eat, they get stored as
>fat.

Not necessarily, nor is it that simple..

But simply put, it's still a matter of energy in and energy out. If
you eat 500 calories and you burn off 500 calories, then the net
balance is 0 (within that context, but not really :)

But how many people burn 500 calories in a single weight training
session?


Beelzibub

The human in us owes fealty to humanity. But the wolf in us acknowledges no master.

elzinator
July 31st 04, 12:50 AM
On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 20:06:49 +1000, Mick R. wrote:
>
>"Lyle McDonald" > wrote in message
...
>> Peter Allen wrote:
>> > bc > wrote in message
>...
>> >
>> >>On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 04:33:20 GMT, "Art S" >
>> >>wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>For sake of discussion, lets say we are talking about 500 calories.
>(The
>> >>>actual number doesn't matter - change it if you wish).
>> >>>
>> >>>Pragmatically speaking, provided total calories and macronutrients
>> >>>throughout the day are the same, what is the difference in eating 500
>> >>>calories [in carbs, if you prefer] only before 6 pm (arbitrary time -
>> >>>change it, if you prefer), only before some type of activity (so if
>> >>>someone is sedentary after 4 pm, no carbs after 4 pm), at least 2
>> >>>hours before going to bed (arbitrary amount of time - change it if
>> >>>you prefer), and eating them whenever?
>> >>>
>> >>>Art
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>He already said they turn to fat. Don't ask him, even rhetorically.
>> >>If he really knew, we wouldn't be talking about this.
>> >
>> >
>> > If you are doing exercise, your body will get energy from somewhere;
>> > when you eat your body will store the energy you've eaten.
>> > So presumably you can argue that if you are on a calorie-controlled
>> > maintenance diet, and you're eating a lot of your calories in the
>> > evening, then it is _possible_ that some of the energy your body
>> > required to do the exercise earlier in the day came from your muscle
>> > tissue, which then doesn't get replaced when you eat later, so you end
>> > up losing muscle and gaining fat.
>> >
>> > However I think what you're saying is that in practice that does not
>> > happen with people not doing something totally screwed up (like doing
>> > 3 hours exercise in the morning and not eating till 9pm).
>>
>> Warrior Diet?
>>
>> Lyle
>>
>Prune juice: warrior's drink.

What goes in, must come out??


Beelzibub

The human in us owes fealty to humanity. But the wolf in us acknowledges no master.

elzinator
July 31st 04, 12:51 AM
On 30 Jul 2004 03:20:21 -0700, Marv wrote:
>OK so from all the mixed responses that I've got from here and
>drsquats, I can safely deduce the fact that Evening Workouts ARE
>better than Morning Workouts.
>
>Damn!! my worst fear has been proved right, guess I'll have to make do
>with the morning routine and settle for less :(

I like mid-day workouts....


Beelzibub

The human in us owes fealty to humanity. But the wolf in us acknowledges no master.

Proton Soup
July 31st 04, 01:34 AM
On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 18:50:03 -0500, elzinator
> wrote:

>On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 20:06:49 +1000, Mick R. wrote:
>>
>>"Lyle McDonald" > wrote in message
...
>>> Peter Allen wrote:
>>> > bc > wrote in message
>...
>>> >
>>> >>On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 04:33:20 GMT, "Art S" >
>>> >>wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>>For sake of discussion, lets say we are talking about 500 calories.
>>(The
>>> >>>actual number doesn't matter - change it if you wish).
>>> >>>
>>> >>>Pragmatically speaking, provided total calories and macronutrients
>>> >>>throughout the day are the same, what is the difference in eating 500
>>> >>>calories [in carbs, if you prefer] only before 6 pm (arbitrary time -
>>> >>>change it, if you prefer), only before some type of activity (so if
>>> >>>someone is sedentary after 4 pm, no carbs after 4 pm), at least 2
>>> >>>hours before going to bed (arbitrary amount of time - change it if
>>> >>>you prefer), and eating them whenever?
>>> >>>
>>> >>>Art
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >>He already said they turn to fat. Don't ask him, even rhetorically.
>>> >>If he really knew, we wouldn't be talking about this.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > If you are doing exercise, your body will get energy from somewhere;
>>> > when you eat your body will store the energy you've eaten.
>>> > So presumably you can argue that if you are on a calorie-controlled
>>> > maintenance diet, and you're eating a lot of your calories in the
>>> > evening, then it is _possible_ that some of the energy your body
>>> > required to do the exercise earlier in the day came from your muscle
>>> > tissue, which then doesn't get replaced when you eat later, so you end
>>> > up losing muscle and gaining fat.
>>> >
>>> > However I think what you're saying is that in practice that does not
>>> > happen with people not doing something totally screwed up (like doing
>>> > 3 hours exercise in the morning and not eating till 9pm).
>>>
>>> Warrior Diet?
>>>
>>> Lyle
>>>
>>Prune juice: warrior's drink.
>
>What goes in, must come out??

When I was a teenager, I would often drink it by the pint. I loved
the stuff, and it never did make any change in my bowel habits. The
funny thing is, after I took a liking to it, my mom told me that she
ate lots of prunes when she was pregnant with me, so maybe that's
where I got it from. :)

-----------
Proton Soup

"Homo sapiens non urinat in ventum."

223rem
July 31st 04, 03:07 AM
Art S wrote:
> "223rem" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>
>>Art S wrote:
>>
>>>"223rem" > wrote in message
gy.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Art S wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"223rem" > wrote in message
gy.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>bc wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>He already said they turn to fat. Don't ask him, even rhetorically.
>>>>>>>If he really knew, we wouldn't be talking about this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>- bc
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Carbs before bed will turn to fat. Yes. Too un-nuanced for you?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>The fundamental question is what is the difference between:
>>>>>A: eat 500 calories of carbs; exercise (500 calories of energy required?);
>>>>> relax and
>>>>>B: exercise (500 calories of energy required?); eat 500 calories of carbs;
>>>>> relax.
>>>>>
>>>>>when both are considered over a full day?
>>>>
>>>>Scenario B:
>>>>
>>>>It depends on the time elapsed between exercise and meal. If you exercise
>>>>and do not eat soon after that, then the blood glucose and muscle/liver
>>>>glycogen levels are going to be restored at the expense of the fat reserves.
>>>>
>>>>So a meal in the evening is not going to be 'canceled' retroactively by exercise performed
>>>>earlier in the day.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Of course, IMHO, etc, etc.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>So, if I'm following, in case A the carbs are used directly for energy
>>>during the exercise, with no net change. In case B, if you eat shortly
>>>after exercising, the carbs are used to replace the blood glucose and
>>>muscle/liver glycogen levels for no net change. In case B, if you eat
>>>much later after exercising, fat reserves will be used to replenish blood
>>>glucose and muscle/liver glycogen levels and then the carbs will be
>>>used to replenish the fat reserves.
>>>
>>>Is that correct?
>>>
>>>If so, pragmatically speaking, what is the difference?
>>>
>>
>>You are correct of course; an energy conservation principle applies.
>
>
> OK, does that mean you changed your mind about
> "Carbs before bed will turn to fat. Yes. Too"?

We've both agreed that they will (see above). Howver, you are right to
point out that energy is conserved.

>

Lyle McDonald
July 31st 04, 04:01 AM
223rem wrote:
> Art S wrote:
>
>> "223rem" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>
>>> Art S wrote:
>>>
>>>> "223rem" > wrote in message
>>>> gy.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Art S wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> "223rem" > wrote in message
>>>>>> gy.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> bc wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> He already said they turn to fat. Don't ask him, even
>>>>>>>> rhetorically.
>>>>>>>> If he really knew, we wouldn't be talking about this.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - bc
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Carbs before bed will turn to fat. Yes. Too un-nuanced for you?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The fundamental question is what is the difference between:
>>>>>> A: eat 500 calories of carbs; exercise (500 calories of energy
>>>>>> required?);
>>>>>> relax and
>>>>>> B: exercise (500 calories of energy required?); eat 500 calories
>>>>>> of carbs;
>>>>>> relax.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> when both are considered over a full day?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Scenario B:
>>>>>
>>>>> It depends on the time elapsed between exercise and meal. If you
>>>>> exercise
>>>>> and do not eat soon after that, then the blood glucose and
>>>>> muscle/liver
>>>>> glycogen levels are going to be restored at the expense of the fat
>>>>> reserves.
>>>>>
>>>>> So a meal in the evening is not going to be 'canceled'
>>>>> retroactively by exercise performed
>>>>> earlier in the day.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course, IMHO, etc, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So, if I'm following, in case A the carbs are used directly for energy
>>>> during the exercise, with no net change. In case B, if you eat shortly
>>>> after exercising, the carbs are used to replace the blood glucose and
>>>> muscle/liver glycogen levels for no net change. In case B, if you eat
>>>> much later after exercising, fat reserves will be used to replenish
>>>> blood
>>>> glucose and muscle/liver glycogen levels and then the carbs will be
>>>> used to replenish the fat reserves.
>>>>
>>>> Is that correct?
>>>>
>>>> If so, pragmatically speaking, what is the difference?
>>>>
>>>
>>> You are correct of course; an energy conservation principle applies.
>>
>>
>>
>> OK, does that mean you changed your mind about
>> "Carbs before bed will turn to fat. Yes. Too"?
>
>
> We've both agreed that they will (see above).

You might want to delve into the topic of de novo lipogenesis (DNL,
conversion of carbs to fat) in humans.

Lyle

Marv
July 31st 04, 07:34 AM
"Mick R." > wrote in message >...
> "Marv" > wrote in message
> m...
> > OK so from all the mixed responses that I've got from here and
> > drsquats, I can safely deduce the fact that Evening Workouts ARE
> > better than Morning Workouts.
> >
> > Damn!! my worst fear has been proved right, guess I'll have to make do
> > with the morning routine and settle for less :(
>
> No you don't "settle for less" you make the most of the time that you DO
> have.
>
> What is with this whole "glass is half empty" crap in the gym!?!

Gee thanks Mick, my spirits are really soaring.
Marv

Mick R.
July 31st 04, 07:40 AM
"Marv" > wrote in message
om...
> "Mick R." > wrote in message
>...
> > "Marv" > wrote in message
> > m...
> > > OK so from all the mixed responses that I've got from here and
> > > drsquats, I can safely deduce the fact that Evening Workouts ARE
> > > better than Morning Workouts.
> > >
> > > Damn!! my worst fear has been proved right, guess I'll have to make do
> > > with the morning routine and settle for less :(
> >
> > No you don't "settle for less" you make the most of the time that you DO
> > have.
> >
> > What is with this whole "glass is half empty" crap in the gym!?!
>
> Gee thanks Mick, my spirits are really soaring.
> Marv

I get up at 5am three days a week so I can be in the gym at 6am. I have no
option, if I don't get up I don't get to go. If your choice is going in the
morning or not going at all then you are immediately ahead simply by going.
If your motivation levels are higher in the morning then that is the best
time anyway. It really all depends.($1 to Lyle)
I just try to do the best morning workout I can. If that means I only ever
get to 90% of my genetic potential, WOOHOO! I get to 90%!! That's a damn
site better than I am right now anyway.

Just get in and enjoy your workouts and don't sweat the small stuff. ($1 to
Lyle)
--
Mick R.

Until you get pretty good at it, deadlifting is 90% half mental. - Wayne S.
Hill

elzinator
July 31st 04, 01:16 PM
On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 19:34:08 -0500, Proton Soup wrote:
>On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 18:50:03 -0500, elzinator
> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 20:06:49 +1000, Mick R. wrote:

>>>Prune juice: warrior's drink.
>>
>>What goes in, must come out??
>
>When I was a teenager, I would often drink it by the pint. I loved
>the stuff, and it never did make any change in my bowel habits. The
>funny thing is, after I took a liking to it, my mom told me that she
>ate lots of prunes when she was pregnant with me, so maybe that's
>where I got it from. :)

Ah, epigenetics!!!! ;)

Trivia: Dr. Pepper was first made with prune juice. Don't recall the
details of why the 'recipe' was changed, but blackberry juice replaced
the prune juice (trivia passed on to me when I worked with the Pacific
Northwest small fruit industry as a virologist - blackberries are
prolific there, it is a weed. They must have discovered a use for it.)

Another trivia: black raspberry juice is the 'ink' for the USDA stamp
on meat.

That reminds me, I thought of a epigenetic explanation for food
shopping on the train ride home last night. (the human variant of the
'for' gene for foraging in insects).

Beelzibub

The human in us owes fealty to humanity. But the wolf in us acknowledges no master.

elzinator
July 31st 04, 01:18 PM
On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 16:40:48 +1000, Mick R. wrote:
>
>"Marv" > wrote in message
om...
>> "Mick R." > wrote in message
>...
>> > "Marv" > wrote in message
>> > m...
>> > > OK so from all the mixed responses that I've got from here and
>> > > drsquats, I can safely deduce the fact that Evening Workouts ARE
>> > > better than Morning Workouts.
>> > >
>> > > Damn!! my worst fear has been proved right, guess I'll have to make do
>> > > with the morning routine and settle for less :(
>> >
>> > No you don't "settle for less" you make the most of the time that you DO
>> > have.
>> >
>> > What is with this whole "glass is half empty" crap in the gym!?!
>>
>> Gee thanks Mick, my spirits are really soaring.
>> Marv
>
>I get up at 5am three days a week so I can be in the gym at 6am. I have no
>option, if I don't get up I don't get to go. If your choice is going in the
>morning or not going at all then you are immediately ahead simply by going.
>If your motivation levels are higher in the morning then that is the best
>time anyway. It really all depends.($1 to Lyle)
>I just try to do the best morning workout I can. If that means I only ever
>get to 90% of my genetic potential, WOOHOO! I get to 90%!! That's a damn
>site better than I am right now anyway.
>
>Just get in and enjoy your workouts and don't sweat the small stuff. ($1 to
>Lyle)

The big stuff won't make it through your pores....


Beelzibub

The human in us owes fealty to humanity. But the wolf in us acknowledges no master.

Proton Soup
July 31st 04, 05:25 PM
On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 07:16:02 -0500, elzinator
> wrote:

>On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 19:34:08 -0500, Proton Soup wrote:
>>On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 18:50:03 -0500, elzinator
> wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 20:06:49 +1000, Mick R. wrote:
>
>>>>Prune juice: warrior's drink.
>>>
>>>What goes in, must come out??
>>
>>When I was a teenager, I would often drink it by the pint. I loved
>>the stuff, and it never did make any change in my bowel habits. The
>>funny thing is, after I took a liking to it, my mom told me that she
>>ate lots of prunes when she was pregnant with me, so maybe that's
>>where I got it from. :)
>
>Ah, epigenetics!!!! ;)

Heh, could be.

>Trivia: Dr. Pepper was first made with prune juice. Don't recall the
>details of why the 'recipe' was changed, but blackberry juice replaced
>the prune juice (trivia passed on to me when I worked with the Pacific
>Northwest small fruit industry as a virologist - blackberries are
>prolific there, it is a weed. They must have discovered a use for it.)

I've heard about the prune, but not the blackberries. The only other
trivia on Dr. Pepper I can think of is that it, like other sodas, used
to be sweetened with cane sugar, not the evil high-fructose corn syrup
that everyone uses now. I think there's also at least one Dr. Pepper
bottling plant in the southeast that still uses cane sugar, but I
can't remember where, maybe one of the Carolinas.

>Another trivia: black raspberry juice is the 'ink' for the USDA stamp
>on meat.

That's actually one of the things I've always wondered about. At
least now I won't be wondered if my meat is tainted. :)

>That reminds me, I thought of a epigenetic explanation for food
>shopping on the train ride home last night. (the human variant of the
>'for' gene for foraging in insects).

Does it explain why I go the store for only one or two things, but
come out with 20 items?

-----------
Proton Soup

"Homo sapiens non urinat in ventum."

Mick R.
August 1st 04, 05:53 AM
"elzinator" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 16:40:48 +1000, Mick R. wrote:
> >
> >"Marv" > wrote in message
> om...
> >> "Mick R." > wrote in message
> >...
> >> > "Marv" > wrote in message
> >> > m...
> >> > > OK so from all the mixed responses that I've got from here and
> >> > > drsquats, I can safely deduce the fact that Evening Workouts ARE
> >> > > better than Morning Workouts.
> >> > >
> >> > > Damn!! my worst fear has been proved right, guess I'll have to make
do
> >> > > with the morning routine and settle for less :(
> >> >
> >> > No you don't "settle for less" you make the most of the time that you
DO
> >> > have.
> >> >
> >> > What is with this whole "glass is half empty" crap in the gym!?!
> >>
> >> Gee thanks Mick, my spirits are really soaring.
> >> Marv
> >
> >I get up at 5am three days a week so I can be in the gym at 6am. I have
no
> >option, if I don't get up I don't get to go. If your choice is going in
the
> >morning or not going at all then you are immediately ahead simply by
going.
> >If your motivation levels are higher in the morning then that is the best
> >time anyway. It really all depends.($1 to Lyle)
> >I just try to do the best morning workout I can. If that means I only
ever
> >get to 90% of my genetic potential, WOOHOO! I get to 90%!! That's a
damn
> >site better than I am right now anyway.
> >
> >Just get in and enjoy your workouts and don't sweat the small stuff. ($1
to
> >Lyle)
>
> The big stuff won't make it through your pores....
>
... Ok fair call.
--
Mick R.

Until you get pretty good at it, deadlifting is 90% half mental. - Wayne S.
Hill
>
> Beelzibub
>
> The human in us owes fealty to humanity. But the wolf in us acknowledges
no master.

Mick R.
August 1st 04, 05:58 AM
"elzinator" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 19:34:08 -0500, Proton Soup wrote:
> >On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 18:50:03 -0500, elzinator
> > wrote:
> >
> >>On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 20:06:49 +1000, Mick R. wrote:
>
> >>>Prune juice: warrior's drink.
> >>
> >>What goes in, must come out??
> >
> >When I was a teenager, I would often drink it by the pint. I loved
> >the stuff, and it never did make any change in my bowel habits. The
> >funny thing is, after I took a liking to it, my mom told me that she
> >ate lots of prunes when she was pregnant with me, so maybe that's
> >where I got it from. :)
>
> Ah, epigenetics!!!! ;)
>
> Trivia: Dr. Pepper was first made with prune juice. Don't recall the
> details of why the 'recipe' was changed, but blackberry juice replaced
> the prune juice (trivia passed on to me when I worked with the Pacific
> Northwest small fruit industry as a virologist - blackberries are
> prolific there, it is a weed. They must have discovered a use for it.)
>

I KNEW it!
One of the companies my firm does work for is a prune packaging plant. I've
taken to eating the things still hard dried. I noticed once that the
kernell inside the prune pit tastes EXACTLY like Dr Pepper.

I spat it out on principal.
--
Mick R.

Until you get pretty good at it, deadlifting is 90% half mental. - Wayne S.
Hill
> Another trivia: black raspberry juice is the 'ink' for the USDA stamp
> on meat.
>
> That reminds me, I thought of a epigenetic explanation for food
> shopping on the train ride home last night. (the human variant of the
> 'for' gene for foraging in insects).
>
> Beelzibub
>
> The human in us owes fealty to humanity. But the wolf in us acknowledges
no master.

Lucas Buck
August 2nd 04, 08:41 AM
On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 07:18:42 -0500, elzinator > wrote:

>On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 16:40:48 +1000, Mick R. wrote:
>>
>>"Marv" > wrote in message
om...
>>> "Mick R." > wrote in message
>...
>>> > "Marv" > wrote in message
>>> > m...
>>> > > OK so from all the mixed responses that I've got from here and
>>> > > drsquats, I can safely deduce the fact that Evening Workouts ARE
>>> > > better than Morning Workouts.
>>> > >
>>> > > Damn!! my worst fear has been proved right, guess I'll have to make do
>>> > > with the morning routine and settle for less :(
>>> >
>>> > No you don't "settle for less" you make the most of the time that you DO
>>> > have.
>>> >
>>> > What is with this whole "glass is half empty" crap in the gym!?!
>>>
>>> Gee thanks Mick, my spirits are really soaring.
>>> Marv
>>
>>I get up at 5am three days a week so I can be in the gym at 6am. I have no
>>option, if I don't get up I don't get to go. If your choice is going in the
>>morning or not going at all then you are immediately ahead simply by going.
>>If your motivation levels are higher in the morning then that is the best
>>time anyway. It really all depends.($1 to Lyle)
>>I just try to do the best morning workout I can. If that means I only ever
>>get to 90% of my genetic potential, WOOHOO! I get to 90%!! That's a damn
>>site better than I am right now anyway.
>>
>>Just get in and enjoy your workouts and don't sweat the small stuff. ($1 to
>>Lyle)
>
>The big stuff won't make it through your pores....

..40 S&W or .357 magnum or even .357SIG will, just fine.

Hugh Beyer
August 3rd 04, 02:54 AM
"Mick R." > wrote in
:

>> Trivia: Dr. Pepper was first made with prune juice. Don't recall the
>> details of why the 'recipe' was changed, but blackberry juice replaced
>> the prune juice (trivia passed on to me when I worked with the Pacific
>> Northwest small fruit industry as a virologist - blackberries are
>> prolific there, it is a weed. They must have discovered a use for it.)
>>
>
> I KNEW it!
> One of the companies my firm does work for is a prune packaging plant.
> I've taken to eating the things still hard dried. I noticed once that
> the kernell inside the prune pit tastes EXACTLY like Dr Pepper.
>
> I spat it out on principal.
>

Good way to get detention.

Hugh


--
No puppies were harmed in the creation of this post.

Lucas Buck
August 3rd 04, 07:40 AM
On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 04:55:17 GMT, 223rem > wrote:

>
>
>bc wrote:
>
>>
>> He already said they turn to fat. Don't ask him, even rhetorically.
>> If he really knew, we wouldn't be talking about this.
>>
>> - bc
>
>Carbs before bed will turn to fat. Yes.

That's why you should wait until you're IN bed to have your carbs.
I recommend raspberries served in a navel.

Marv
August 5th 04, 11:19 AM
elzinator > wrote in message >...
> On 30 Jul 2004 03:20:21 -0700, Marv wrote:
> >OK so from all the mixed responses that I've got from here and
> >drsquats, I can safely deduce the fact that Evening Workouts ARE
> >better than Morning Workouts.
> >
> >Damn!! my worst fear has been proved right, guess I'll have to make do
> >with the morning routine and settle for less :(
>
> I like mid-day workouts....
>
>
> Beelzibub
>
> The human in us owes fealty to humanity. But the wolf in us acknowledges no master.

Hey bub, I like eveining workouts... but I have no choice but to do it
in the morning.

bc
August 5th 04, 01:45 PM
On 5 Aug 2004 03:19:32 -0700, (Marv) wrote:

>elzinator > wrote in message >...
>> On 30 Jul 2004 03:20:21 -0700, Marv wrote:
>> >OK so from all the mixed responses that I've got from here and
>> >drsquats, I can safely deduce the fact that Evening Workouts ARE
>> >better than Morning Workouts.
>> >
>> >Damn!! my worst fear has been proved right, guess I'll have to make do
>> >with the morning routine and settle for less :(
>>
>> I like mid-day workouts....
>>
>>
>> Beelzibub
>>
>> The human in us owes fealty to humanity. But the wolf in us acknowledges no master.
>
>Hey bub, I like eveining workouts... but I have no choice but to do it
>in the morning.

Chuckle ... calling Elzi "bub." That's just funny somehow.

- bc
- bc

elzinator
August 6th 04, 01:32 AM
On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 12:45:59 GMT, bc wrote:
>On 5 Aug 2004 03:19:32 -0700, (Marv) wrote:
>
>>elzinator > wrote in message >...
>>> On 30 Jul 2004 03:20:21 -0700, Marv wrote:
>>> >OK so from all the mixed responses that I've got from here and
>>> >drsquats, I can safely deduce the fact that Evening Workouts ARE
>>> >better than Morning Workouts.
>>> >
>>> >Damn!! my worst fear has been proved right, guess I'll have to make do
>>> >with the morning routine and settle for less :(
>>>
>>> I like mid-day workouts....
>>>
>>>
>>> Beelzibub
>>>
>>> The human in us owes fealty to humanity. But the wolf in us acknowledges no master.
>>
>>Hey bub, I like eveining workouts... but I have no choice but to do it
>>in the morning.
>
>Chuckle ... calling Elzi "bub." That's just funny somehow.

Better than 'Sir'.

The Queen of Cans and Jars
August 6th 04, 01:42 AM
elzinator > wrote:

> On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 12:45:59 GMT, bc wrote:
> >On 5 Aug 2004 03:19:32 -0700, (Marv) wrote:
> >>elzinator > wrote:
> >>> On 30 Jul 2004 03:20:21 -0700, Marv wrote:
> >>> >OK so from all the mixed responses that I've got from here and
> >>> >drsquats, I can safely deduce the fact that Evening Workouts ARE
> >>> >better than Morning Workouts.
> >>> >
> >>> >Damn!! my worst fear has been proved right, guess I'll have to make do
> >>> >with the morning routine and settle for less :(
> >>>
> >>> I like mid-day workouts....
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Beelzibub
> >>>
> >>> The human in us owes fealty to humanity. But the wolf in us
> >>> acknowledges no master.
> >>
> >>Hey bub, I like eveining workouts... but I have no choice but to do it
> >>in the morning.
> >
> >Chuckle ... calling Elzi "bub." That's just funny somehow.
>
> Better than 'Sir'.

people sometimes call me 'sir' on the phone.

grrrrrrrrr.

bc
August 6th 04, 05:38 AM
On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 00:42:11 GMT, (The Queen of
Cans and Jars) wrote:

>elzinator > wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 12:45:59 GMT, bc wrote:
>> >On 5 Aug 2004 03:19:32 -0700, (Marv) wrote:
>> >>elzinator > wrote:
>> >>> On 30 Jul 2004 03:20:21 -0700, Marv wrote:
>> >>> >OK so from all the mixed responses that I've got from here and
>> >>> >drsquats, I can safely deduce the fact that Evening Workouts ARE
>> >>> >better than Morning Workouts.
>> >>> >
>> >>> >Damn!! my worst fear has been proved right, guess I'll have to make do
>> >>> >with the morning routine and settle for less :(
>> >>>
>> >>> I like mid-day workouts....
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Beelzibub
>> >>>
>> >>> The human in us owes fealty to humanity. But the wolf in us
>> >>> acknowledges no master.
>> >>
>> >>Hey bub, I like eveining workouts... but I have no choice but to do it
>> >>in the morning.
>> >
>> >Chuckle ... calling Elzi "bub." That's just funny somehow.
>>
>> Better than 'Sir'.
>
>people sometimes call me 'sir' on the phone.
>
>grrrrrrrrr.

My wife hates being called Ma'am. It makes her feel old.

- bc

The Queen of Cans and Jars
August 6th 04, 05:49 AM
bc > wrote:

> On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 00:42:11 GMT, (The Queen of
> Cans and Jars) wrote:
>
> >elzinator > wrote:
> >
> >> On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 12:45:59 GMT, bc wrote:
> >> >On 5 Aug 2004 03:19:32 -0700, (Marv) wrote:
> >> >>elzinator > wrote:
> >> >>> On 30 Jul 2004 03:20:21 -0700, Marv wrote:
> >> >>> >OK so from all the mixed responses that I've got from here and
> >> >>> >drsquats, I can safely deduce the fact that Evening Workouts ARE
> >> >>> >better than Morning Workouts.
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >Damn!! my worst fear has been proved right, guess I'll have to make do
> >> >>> >with the morning routine and settle for less :(
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I like mid-day workouts....
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Beelzibub
> >> >>>
> >> >>> The human in us owes fealty to humanity. But the wolf in us
> >> >>> acknowledges no master.
> >> >>
> >> >>Hey bub, I like eveining workouts... but I have no choice but to do it
> >> >>in the morning.
> >> >
> >> >Chuckle ... calling Elzi "bub." That's just funny somehow.
> >>
> >> Better than 'Sir'.
> >
> >people sometimes call me 'sir' on the phone.
> >
> >grrrrrrrrr.
>
> My wife hates being called Ma'am. It makes her feel old.

at least THEY GET THE DAMN GENDER CORRECT.

i'd much rather be called "ma'am" than "sir."

you know, since i'm a woman and all.

John M. Williams
August 6th 04, 06:58 AM
(The Queen of Cans and Jars) wrote:

>bc > wrote:
>
>> (The Queen of Cans and Jars) wrote:
>>
>> >elzinator > wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 12:45:59 GMT, bc wrote:
>> >> >On 5 Aug 2004 03:19:32 -0700, (Marv) wrote:
>> >> >>elzinator > wrote:
>> >> >>> On 30 Jul 2004 03:20:21 -0700, Marv wrote:
>> >> >>> >OK so from all the mixed responses that I've got from here and
>> >> >>> >drsquats, I can safely deduce the fact that Evening Workouts ARE
>> >> >>> >better than Morning Workouts.
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> >Damn!! my worst fear has been proved right, guess I'll have to make do
>> >> >>> >with the morning routine and settle for less :(
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> I like mid-day workouts....
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Beelzibub
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> The human in us owes fealty to humanity. But the wolf in us
>> >> >>> acknowledges no master.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>Hey bub, I like eveining workouts... but I have no choice but to do it
>> >> >>in the morning.
>> >> >
>> >> >Chuckle ... calling Elzi "bub." That's just funny somehow.
>> >>
>> >> Better than 'Sir'.
>> >
>> >people sometimes call me 'sir' on the phone.
>> >
>> >grrrrrrrrr.
>>
>> My wife hates being called Ma'am. It makes her feel old.
>
>at least THEY GET THE DAMN GENDER CORRECT.
>
>i'd much rather be called "ma'am" than "sir."
>
>you know, since i'm a woman and all.

They probably want to bagger you.

John HUDSON
August 6th 04, 07:37 AM
On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 04:49:45 GMT, (The Queen of
Cans and Jars) wrote:

>bc > wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 00:42:11 GMT, (The Queen of
>> Cans and Jars) wrote:
>>
>> >elzinator > wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 12:45:59 GMT, bc wrote:
>> >> >On 5 Aug 2004 03:19:32 -0700, (Marv) wrote:
>> >> >>elzinator > wrote:
>> >> >>> On 30 Jul 2004 03:20:21 -0700, Marv wrote:
>> >> >>> >OK so from all the mixed responses that I've got from here and
>> >> >>> >drsquats, I can safely deduce the fact that Evening Workouts ARE
>> >> >>> >better than Morning Workouts.
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> >Damn!! my worst fear has been proved right, guess I'll have to make do
>> >> >>> >with the morning routine and settle for less :(
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> I like mid-day workouts....
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Beelzibub
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> The human in us owes fealty to humanity. But the wolf in us
>> >> >>> acknowledges no master.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>Hey bub, I like eveining workouts... but I have no choice but to do it
>> >> >>in the morning.
>> >> >
>> >> >Chuckle ... calling Elzi "bub." That's just funny somehow.
>> >>
>> >> Better than 'Sir'.
>> >
>> >people sometimes call me 'sir' on the phone.
>> >
>> >grrrrrrrrr.
>>
>> My wife hates being called Ma'am. It makes her feel old.
>
>at least THEY GET THE DAMN GENDER CORRECT.
>
>i'd much rather be called "ma'am" than "sir."
>
>you know, since i'm a woman and all.

Try adopting a more feminine and less gruff persona. It may be de
rigueur at MFW but in real life it may be the root of your problem.

Have a nice weekend - I intend to!! ;o)

TFIF!!

Mick R.
August 6th 04, 10:49 AM
"elzinator" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 12:45:59 GMT, bc wrote:
> >On 5 Aug 2004 03:19:32 -0700, (Marv) wrote:
> >
> >>elzinator > wrote in message
>...
> >>> On 30 Jul 2004 03:20:21 -0700, Marv wrote:
> >>> >OK so from all the mixed responses that I've got from here and
> >>> >drsquats, I can safely deduce the fact that Evening Workouts ARE
> >>> >better than Morning Workouts.
> >>> >
> >>> >Damn!! my worst fear has been proved right, guess I'll have to make
do
> >>> >with the morning routine and settle for less :(
> >>>
> >>> I like mid-day workouts....
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Beelzibub
> >>>
> >>> The human in us owes fealty to humanity. But the wolf in us
acknowledges no master.
> >>
> >>Hey bub, I like eveining workouts... but I have no choice but to do it
> >>in the morning.
> >
> >Chuckle ... calling Elzi "bub." That's just funny somehow.
>
You hear that a lot if you hang out with short, hairy Canadians with unusual
healing abilities and long nails.

> Better than 'Sir'.
>
>

Mick R.
August 6th 04, 10:51 AM
"The Queen of Cans and Jars" > wrote in message
. ..
> bc > wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 00:42:11 GMT, (The Queen of
> > Cans and Jars) wrote:
> >
> > >elzinator > wrote:
> > >
> > >> On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 12:45:59 GMT, bc wrote:
> > >> >On 5 Aug 2004 03:19:32 -0700, (Marv) wrote:
> > >> >>elzinator > wrote:
> > >> >>> On 30 Jul 2004 03:20:21 -0700, Marv wrote:
> > >> >>> >OK so from all the mixed responses that I've got from here and
> > >> >>> >drsquats, I can safely deduce the fact that Evening Workouts ARE
> > >> >>> >better than Morning Workouts.
> > >> >>> >
> > >> >>> >Damn!! my worst fear has been proved right, guess I'll have to
make do
> > >> >>> >with the morning routine and settle for less :(
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> I like mid-day workouts....
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> Beelzibub
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> The human in us owes fealty to humanity. But the wolf in us
> > >> >>> acknowledges no master.
> > >> >>
> > >> >>Hey bub, I like eveining workouts... but I have no choice but to do
it
> > >> >>in the morning.
> > >> >
> > >> >Chuckle ... calling Elzi "bub." That's just funny somehow.
> > >>
> > >> Better than 'Sir'.
> > >
> > >people sometimes call me 'sir' on the phone.
> > >
> > >grrrrrrrrr.
> >
> > My wife hates being called Ma'am. It makes her feel old.
>
> at least THEY GET THE DAMN GENDER CORRECT.
>
> i'd much rather be called "ma'am" than "sir."
>
> you know, since i'm a woman and all.

You realise that we are now obliged to ask for jpegs?

The Queen of Cans and Jars
August 6th 04, 02:35 PM
Mick R. > wrote:

> "The Queen of Cans and Jars" > wrote in message
> . ..
> > bc > wrote:
> >
> > > On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 00:42:11 GMT, (The Queen of
> > > Cans and Jars) wrote:
> > >
> > > >elzinator > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 12:45:59 GMT, bc wrote:
> > > >> >On 5 Aug 2004 03:19:32 -0700, (Marv) wrote:
> > > >> >>elzinator > wrote:
> > > >> >>> On 30 Jul 2004 03:20:21 -0700, Marv wrote:
> > > >> >>> >OK so from all the mixed responses that I've got from here and
> > > >> >>> >drsquats, I can safely deduce the fact that Evening Workouts ARE
> > > >> >>> >better than Morning Workouts.
> > > >> >>> >
> > > >> >>> >Damn!! my worst fear has been proved right, guess I'll have to
> make do
> > > >> >>> >with the morning routine and settle for less :(
> > > >> >>>
> > > >> >>> I like mid-day workouts....
> > > >> >>>
> > > >> >>>
> > > >> >>> Beelzibub
> > > >> >>>
> > > >> >>> The human in us owes fealty to humanity. But the wolf in us
> > > >> >>> acknowledges no master.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>Hey bub, I like eveining workouts... but I have no choice but to do
> it
> > > >> >>in the morning.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >Chuckle ... calling Elzi "bub." That's just funny somehow.
> > > >>
> > > >> Better than 'Sir'.
> > > >
> > > >people sometimes call me 'sir' on the phone.
> > > >
> > > >grrrrrrrrr.
> > >
> > > My wife hates being called Ma'am. It makes her feel old.
> >
> > at least THEY GET THE DAMN GENDER CORRECT.
> >
> > i'd much rather be called "ma'am" than "sir."
> >
> > you know, since i'm a woman and all.
>
> You realise that we are now obliged to ask for jpegs?

oh, what the hell.

http://tinypic.com/1gmyt

The Queen of Cans and Jars
August 6th 04, 02:35 PM
John M. Williams > wrote:

> (The Queen of Cans and Jars) wrote:
> >bc > wrote:
> >> (The Queen of Cans and Jars) wrote:
> >> >elzinator > wrote:
> >> >> On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 12:45:59 GMT, bc wrote:
> >> >> >On 5 Aug 2004 03:19:32 -0700, (Marv) wrote:
> >> >> >>elzinator > wrote:
> >> >> >>> On 30 Jul 2004 03:20:21 -0700, Marv wrote:
> >> >> >>> >OK so from all the mixed responses that I've got from here and
> >> >> >>> >drsquats, I can safely deduce the fact that Evening Workouts ARE
> >> >> >>> >better than Morning Workouts.
> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >>> >Damn!! my worst fear has been proved right, guess I'll have to
> >> >> >>> >make do with the morning routine and settle for less :(
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> I like mid-day workouts....
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Beelzibub
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> The human in us owes fealty to humanity. But the wolf in us
> >> >> >>> acknowledges no master.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>Hey bub, I like eveining workouts... but I have no choice but to do it
> >> >> >>in the morning.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Chuckle ... calling Elzi "bub." That's just funny somehow.
> >> >>
> >> >> Better than 'Sir'.
> >> >
> >> >people sometimes call me 'sir' on the phone.
> >> >
> >> >grrrrrrrrr.
> >>
> >> My wife hates being called Ma'am. It makes her feel old.
> >
> >at least THEY GET THE DAMN GENDER CORRECT.
> >
> >i'd much rather be called "ma'am" than "sir."
> >
> >you know, since i'm a woman and all.
>
> They probably want to bagger you.

most of the best people do.

Lee Michaels
August 6th 04, 02:43 PM
"The Queen of Cans and Jars" > wrote in message
...
> Mick R. > wrote:
>
> > "The Queen of Cans and Jars" > wrote in message
> > . ..
> > > bc > wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 00:42:11 GMT, (The Queen
of
> > > > Cans and Jars) wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >elzinator > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 12:45:59 GMT, bc wrote:
> > > > >> >On 5 Aug 2004 03:19:32 -0700, (Marv) wrote:
> > > > >> >>elzinator > wrote:
> > > > >> >>> On 30 Jul 2004 03:20:21 -0700, Marv wrote:
> > > > >> >>> >OK so from all the mixed responses that I've got from here
and
> > > > >> >>> >drsquats, I can safely deduce the fact that Evening Workouts
ARE
> > > > >> >>> >better than Morning Workouts.
> > > > >> >>> >
> > > > >> >>> >Damn!! my worst fear has been proved right, guess I'll have
to
> > make do
> > > > >> >>> >with the morning routine and settle for less :(
> > > > >> >>>
> > > > >> >>> I like mid-day workouts....
> > > > >> >>>
> > > > >> >>>
> > > > >> >>> Beelzibub
> > > > >> >>>
> > > > >> >>> The human in us owes fealty to humanity. But the wolf in us
> > > > >> >>> acknowledges no master.
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >>Hey bub, I like eveining workouts... but I have no choice but
to do
> > it
> > > > >> >>in the morning.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >Chuckle ... calling Elzi "bub." That's just funny somehow.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Better than 'Sir'.
> > > > >
> > > > >people sometimes call me 'sir' on the phone.
> > > > >
> > > > >grrrrrrrrr.
> > > >
> > > > My wife hates being called Ma'am. It makes her feel old.
> > >
> > > at least THEY GET THE DAMN GENDER CORRECT.
> > >
> > > i'd much rather be called "ma'am" than "sir."
> > >
> > > you know, since i'm a woman and all.
> >
> > You realise that we are now obliged to ask for jpegs?
>
> oh, what the hell.
>
> http://tinypic.com/1gmyt

So Queenie is a cyborg??

DRS
August 6th 04, 02:54 PM
"The Queen of Cans and Jars" > wrote in message

> Mick R. > wrote:

[...]

>> You realise that we are now obliged to ask for jpegs?
>
> oh, what the hell.
>
> http://tinypic.com/1gmyt

Nice camera.

--

"I like pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as
equals."
Winston Churchill

bc
August 6th 04, 04:39 PM
"Mick R." > wrote in message >...
> "elzinator" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 12:45:59 GMT, bc wrote:
> > >On 5 Aug 2004 03:19:32 -0700, (Marv) wrote:
> > >
> > >>elzinator > wrote in message
> >...
> > >>> On 30 Jul 2004 03:20:21 -0700, Marv wrote:
> > >>> >OK so from all the mixed responses that I've got from here and
> > >>> >drsquats, I can safely deduce the fact that Evening Workouts ARE
> > >>> >better than Morning Workouts.
> > >>> >
> > >>> >Damn!! my worst fear has been proved right, guess I'll have to make
> do
> > >>> >with the morning routine and settle for less :(
> > >>>
> > >>> I like mid-day workouts....
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Beelzibub
> > >>>
> > >>> The human in us owes fealty to humanity. But the wolf in us
> acknowledges no master.
> > >>
> > >>Hey bub, I like eveining workouts... but I have no choice but to do it
> > >>in the morning.
> > >
> > >Chuckle ... calling Elzi "bub." That's just funny somehow.
> >
> You hear that a lot if you hang out with short, hairy Canadians with unusual
> healing abilities and long nails.
>

OK, all I'm getting from this is Danny DeVito in "Big Fish," and he's
not Canadian, is he?

- bc

Chupacabra
August 6th 04, 04:52 PM
On 6 Aug 2004 08:39:07 -0700, (bc) wrote:

>"Mick R." > wrote in message >...
>> "elzinator" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 12:45:59 GMT, bc wrote:
>> > >On 5 Aug 2004 03:19:32 -0700, (Marv) wrote:
>> > >
>> > >>elzinator > wrote in message
>> >...
>> > >>> On 30 Jul 2004 03:20:21 -0700, Marv wrote:
>> > >>> >OK so from all the mixed responses that I've got from here and
>> > >>> >drsquats, I can safely deduce the fact that Evening Workouts ARE
>> > >>> >better than Morning Workouts.
>> > >>> >
>> > >>> >Damn!! my worst fear has been proved right, guess I'll have to make
>> do
>> > >>> >with the morning routine and settle for less :(
>> > >>>
>> > >>> I like mid-day workouts....
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Beelzibub
>> > >>>
>> > >>> The human in us owes fealty to humanity. But the wolf in us
>> acknowledges no master.
>> > >>
>> > >>Hey bub, I like eveining workouts... but I have no choice but to do it
>> > >>in the morning.
>> > >
>> > >Chuckle ... calling Elzi "bub." That's just funny somehow.
>> >
>> You hear that a lot if you hang out with short, hairy Canadians with unusual
>> healing abilities and long nails.
>>
>
>OK, all I'm getting from this is Danny DeVito in "Big Fish," and he's
>not Canadian, is he?
>
>- bc

http://www.marvel.com/minisites/minisites.htm?title=WOLVERINE&family=x-men

Proton Soup
August 6th 04, 06:09 PM
On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 13:43:44 GMT, "Lee Michaels"
> wrote:

>
>"The Queen of Cans and Jars" > wrote in message
...
>> Mick R. > wrote:
>>
>> > "The Queen of Cans and Jars" > wrote in message
>> > . ..
>> > > bc > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 00:42:11 GMT, (The Queen
>of
>> > > > Cans and Jars) wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > >elzinator > wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > >> On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 12:45:59 GMT, bc wrote:
>> > > > >> >On 5 Aug 2004 03:19:32 -0700, (Marv) wrote:
>> > > > >> >>elzinator > wrote:
>> > > > >> >>> On 30 Jul 2004 03:20:21 -0700, Marv wrote:
>> > > > >> >>> >OK so from all the mixed responses that I've got from here
>and
>> > > > >> >>> >drsquats, I can safely deduce the fact that Evening Workouts
>ARE
>> > > > >> >>> >better than Morning Workouts.
>> > > > >> >>> >
>> > > > >> >>> >Damn!! my worst fear has been proved right, guess I'll have
>to
>> > make do
>> > > > >> >>> >with the morning routine and settle for less :(
>> > > > >> >>>
>> > > > >> >>> I like mid-day workouts....
>> > > > >> >>>
>> > > > >> >>>
>> > > > >> >>> Beelzibub
>> > > > >> >>>
>> > > > >> >>> The human in us owes fealty to humanity. But the wolf in us
>> > > > >> >>> acknowledges no master.
>> > > > >> >>
>> > > > >> >>Hey bub, I like eveining workouts... but I have no choice but
>to do
>> > it
>> > > > >> >>in the morning.
>> > > > >> >
>> > > > >> >Chuckle ... calling Elzi "bub." That's just funny somehow.
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> Better than 'Sir'.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >people sometimes call me 'sir' on the phone.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >grrrrrrrrr.
>> > > >
>> > > > My wife hates being called Ma'am. It makes her feel old.
>> > >
>> > > at least THEY GET THE DAMN GENDER CORRECT.
>> > >
>> > > i'd much rather be called "ma'am" than "sir."
>> > >
>> > > you know, since i'm a woman and all.
>> >
>> > You realise that we are now obliged to ask for jpegs?
>>
>> oh, what the hell.
>>
>> http://tinypic.com/1gmyt
>
>So Queenie is a cyborg??

No, the camera is detachable.

-----------
Proton Soup

"Homo sapiens non urinat in ventum."

Jeff Finlayson
August 6th 04, 06:22 PM
The Queen of Cans and Jars wrote:
> elzinator wrote:
>> bc wrote:
>>> Marv wrote:
>>>> elzinator wrote:

>>>>>I like mid-day workouts....
>>>>>
>>>>>Beelzibub

>>>>Hey bub, I like eveining workouts... but I have no choice but to do it
>>>>in the morning.
>>>
>>>Chuckle ... calling Elzi "bub." That's just funny somehow.
>>
>>Better than 'Sir'.
>
> people sometimes call me 'sir' on the phone.

That'll make for a short conversation. Answer with a Click!

> grrrrrrrrr.

Larry Hodges
August 6th 04, 06:27 PM
The Queen of Cans and Jars wrote:
> Mick R. > wrote:
>
>> "The Queen of Cans and Jars" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>>> bc > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 00:42:11 GMT, (The Queen
>>>> of Cans and Jars) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> elzinator > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 12:45:59 GMT, bc wrote:
>>>>>>> On 5 Aug 2004 03:19:32 -0700, (Marv) wrote:
>>>>>>>> elzinator > wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 30 Jul 2004 03:20:21 -0700, Marv wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> OK so from all the mixed responses that I've got from here
>>>>>>>>>> and drsquats, I can safely deduce the fact that Evening
>>>>>>>>>> Workouts ARE better than Morning Workouts.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Damn!! my worst fear has been proved right, guess I'll have
>>>>>>>>>> to make do with the morning routine and settle for less :(
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I like mid-day workouts....
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Beelzibub
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The human in us owes fealty to humanity. But the wolf in us
>>>>>>>>> acknowledges no master.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hey bub, I like eveining workouts... but I have no choice but
>>>>>>>> to do it in the morning.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chuckle ... calling Elzi "bub." That's just funny somehow.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Better than 'Sir'.
>>>>>
>>>>> people sometimes call me 'sir' on the phone.
>>>>>
>>>>> grrrrrrrrr.
>>>>
>>>> My wife hates being called Ma'am. It makes her feel old.
>>>
>>> at least THEY GET THE DAMN GENDER CORRECT.
>>>
>>> i'd much rather be called "ma'am" than "sir."
>>>
>>> you know, since i'm a woman and all.
>>
>> You realise that we are now obliged to ask for jpegs?
>
> oh, what the hell.
>
> http://tinypic.com/1gmyt

Come on Queenie. I know you've got better ones than that!
--
-Larry

The Queen of Cans and Jars
August 6th 04, 09:29 PM
Larry Hodges > wrote:

> The Queen of Cans and Jars wrote:
> > Mick R. > wrote:
> >
> >> "The Queen of Cans and Jars" > wrote in message
> >> . ..
> >>> bc > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 00:42:11 GMT, (The Queen
> >>>> of Cans and Jars) wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> elzinator > wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 12:45:59 GMT, bc wrote:
> >>>>>>> On 5 Aug 2004 03:19:32 -0700, (Marv) wrote:
> >>>>>>>> elzinator > wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On 30 Jul 2004 03:20:21 -0700, Marv wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> OK so from all the mixed responses that I've got from here
> >>>>>>>>>> and drsquats, I can safely deduce the fact that Evening
> >>>>>>>>>> Workouts ARE better than Morning Workouts.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Damn!! my worst fear has been proved right, guess I'll have
> >>>>>>>>>> to make do with the morning routine and settle for less :(
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I like mid-day workouts....
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Beelzibub
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> The human in us owes fealty to humanity. But the wolf in us
> >>>>>>>>> acknowledges no master.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Hey bub, I like eveining workouts... but I have no choice but
> >>>>>>>> to do it in the morning.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Chuckle ... calling Elzi "bub." That's just funny somehow.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Better than 'Sir'.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> people sometimes call me 'sir' on the phone.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> grrrrrrrrr.
> >>>>
> >>>> My wife hates being called Ma'am. It makes her feel old.
> >>>
> >>> at least THEY GET THE DAMN GENDER CORRECT.
> >>>
> >>> i'd much rather be called "ma'am" than "sir."
> >>>
> >>> you know, since i'm a woman and all.
> >>
> >> You realise that we are now obliged to ask for jpegs?
> >
> > oh, what the hell.
> >
> > http://tinypic.com/1gmyt
>
> Come on Queenie. I know you've got better ones than that!

you miss the point entirely, as usual.

The Queen of Cans and Jars
August 6th 04, 09:29 PM
Jeff Finlayson > wrote:

> The Queen of Cans and Jars wrote:
> > elzinator wrote:
> >> bc wrote:
> >>> Marv wrote:
> >>>> elzinator wrote:
>
> >>>>>I like mid-day workouts....
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Beelzibub
>
> >>>>Hey bub, I like eveining workouts... but I have no choice but to do it
> >>>>in the morning.
> >>>
> >>>Chuckle ... calling Elzi "bub." That's just funny somehow.
> >>
> >>Better than 'Sir'.
> >
> > people sometimes call me 'sir' on the phone.
>
> That'll make for a short conversation. Answer with a Click!

and lose my job? yeah, that'd be swell.

The Queen of Cans and Jars
August 6th 04, 09:45 PM
Proton Soup > wrote:

> On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 13:43:44 GMT, "Lee Michaels"
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >"The Queen of Cans and Jars" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> Mick R. > wrote:
> >>
> >> > "The Queen of Cans and Jars" > wrote in message
> >> > . ..
> >> > > bc > wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > > On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 00:42:11 GMT, (The Queen
> >of
> >> > > > Cans and Jars) wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > >elzinator > wrote:
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >> On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 12:45:59 GMT, bc wrote:
> >> > > > >> >On 5 Aug 2004 03:19:32 -0700, (Marv) wrote:
> >> > > > >> >>elzinator > wrote:
> >> > > > >> >>> On 30 Jul 2004 03:20:21 -0700, Marv wrote:
> >> > > > >> >>> >OK so from all the mixed responses that I've got from here
> >and
> >> > > > >> >>> >drsquats, I can safely deduce the fact that Evening Workouts
> >ARE
> >> > > > >> >>> >better than Morning Workouts.
> >> > > > >> >>> >
> >> > > > >> >>> >Damn!! my worst fear has been proved right, guess I'll have
> >to
> >> > make do
> >> > > > >> >>> >with the morning routine and settle for less :(
> >> > > > >> >>>
> >> > > > >> >>> I like mid-day workouts....
> >> > > > >> >>>
> >> > > > >> >>>
> >> > > > >> >>> Beelzibub
> >> > > > >> >>>
> >> > > > >> >>> The human in us owes fealty to humanity. But the wolf in us
> >> > > > >> >>> acknowledges no master.
> >> > > > >> >>
> >> > > > >> >>Hey bub, I like eveining workouts... but I have no choice but
> >to do
> >> > it
> >> > > > >> >>in the morning.
> >> > > > >> >
> >> > > > >> >Chuckle ... calling Elzi "bub." That's just funny somehow.
> >> > > > >>
> >> > > > >> Better than 'Sir'.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >people sometimes call me 'sir' on the phone.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >grrrrrrrrr.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > My wife hates being called Ma'am. It makes her feel old.
> >> > >
> >> > > at least THEY GET THE DAMN GENDER CORRECT.
> >> > >
> >> > > i'd much rather be called "ma'am" than "sir."
> >> > >
> >> > > you know, since i'm a woman and all.
> >> >
> >> > You realise that we are now obliged to ask for jpegs?
> >>
> >> oh, what the hell.
> >>
> >> http://tinypic.com/1gmyt
> >
> >So Queenie is a cyborg??
>
> No, the camera is detachable.

shhh! they'll think i'm human!

The Queen of Cans and Jars
August 6th 04, 09:45 PM
DRS > wrote:

> "The Queen of Cans and Jars" > wrote in message
>
> > Mick R. > wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> >> You realise that we are now obliged to ask for jpegs?
> >
> > oh, what the hell.
> >
> > http://tinypic.com/1gmyt
>
> Nice camera.

thanks.

Jeff Finlayson
August 6th 04, 09:50 PM
The Queen of Cans and Jars wrote:
> Jeff Finlayson wrote:
>>The Queen of Cans and Jars wrote:
>>>elzinator wrote:
>>>>bc wrote:

>>>>>Chuckle ... calling Elzi "bub." That's just funny somehow.
>>>>
>>>>Better than 'Sir'.
>>>
>>>people sometimes call me 'sir' on the phone.
>>
>>That'll make for a short conversation. Answer with a Click!
>
> and lose my job? yeah, that'd be swell.

Oh nevermind..

Mick R.
August 6th 04, 10:58 PM
"The Queen of Cans and Jars" > wrote in message
. ..
> Proton Soup > wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 13:43:44 GMT, "Lee Michaels"
> > > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >"The Queen of Cans and Jars" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >> Mick R. > wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > "The Queen of Cans and Jars" > wrote in
message
> > >> > . ..
> > >> > > bc > wrote:
> > >> > >
> > >> > > > On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 00:42:11 GMT, (The
Queen
> > >of
> > >> > > > Cans and Jars) wrote:
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > >elzinator > wrote:
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > >> On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 12:45:59 GMT, bc wrote:
> > >> > > > >> >On 5 Aug 2004 03:19:32 -0700, (Marv)
wrote:
> > >> > > > >> >>elzinator > wrote:
> > >> > > > >> >>> On 30 Jul 2004 03:20:21 -0700, Marv wrote:
> > >> > > > >> >>> >OK so from all the mixed responses that I've got from
here
> > >and
> > >> > > > >> >>> >drsquats, I can safely deduce the fact that Evening
Workouts
> > >ARE
> > >> > > > >> >>> >better than Morning Workouts.
> > >> > > > >> >>> >
> > >> > > > >> >>> >Damn!! my worst fear has been proved right, guess I'll
have
> > >to
> > >> > make do
> > >> > > > >> >>> >with the morning routine and settle for less :(
> > >> > > > >> >>>
> > >> > > > >> >>> I like mid-day workouts....
> > >> > > > >> >>>
> > >> > > > >> >>>
> > >> > > > >> >>> Beelzibub
> > >> > > > >> >>>
> > >> > > > >> >>> The human in us owes fealty to humanity. But the wolf in
us
> > >> > > > >> >>> acknowledges no master.
> > >> > > > >> >>
> > >> > > > >> >>Hey bub, I like eveining workouts... but I have no choice
but
> > >to do
> > >> > it
> > >> > > > >> >>in the morning.
> > >> > > > >> >
> > >> > > > >> >Chuckle ... calling Elzi "bub." That's just funny
somehow.
> > >> > > > >>
> > >> > > > >> Better than 'Sir'.
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > >people sometimes call me 'sir' on the phone.
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > >grrrrrrrrr.
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > My wife hates being called Ma'am. It makes her feel old.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > at least THEY GET THE DAMN GENDER CORRECT.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > i'd much rather be called "ma'am" than "sir."
> > >> > >
> > >> > > you know, since i'm a woman and all.
> > >> >
> > >> > You realise that we are now obliged to ask for jpegs?
> > >>
> > >> oh, what the hell.
> > >>
> > >> http://tinypic.com/1gmyt
> > >
> > >So Queenie is a cyborg??
> >
> > No, the camera is detachable.
>
> shhh! they'll think i'm human!

Even I know you better than that.
That pic is a little shaky, are you stacking ephedra?
--
Mick R.

Until you get pretty good at it, deadlifting is 90% half mental. - Wayne S.
Hill

Mick R.
August 6th 04, 11:05 PM
"bc" > wrote in message
om...
> "Mick R." > wrote in message
>...
> > "elzinator" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 12:45:59 GMT, bc wrote:
> > > >On 5 Aug 2004 03:19:32 -0700, (Marv) wrote:
> > > >
> > > >>elzinator > wrote in message
> > >...
> > > >>> On 30 Jul 2004 03:20:21 -0700, Marv wrote:
> > > >>> >OK so from all the mixed responses that I've got from here and
> > > >>> >drsquats, I can safely deduce the fact that Evening Workouts ARE
> > > >>> >better than Morning Workouts.
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> >Damn!! my worst fear has been proved right, guess I'll have to
make
> > do
> > > >>> >with the morning routine and settle for less :(
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I like mid-day workouts....
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Beelzibub
> > > >>>
> > > >>> The human in us owes fealty to humanity. But the wolf in us
> > acknowledges no master.
> > > >>
> > > >>Hey bub, I like eveining workouts... but I have no choice but to do
it
> > > >>in the morning.
> > > >
> > > >Chuckle ... calling Elzi "bub." That's just funny somehow.
> > >
> > You hear that a lot if you hang out with short, hairy Canadians with
unusual
> > healing abilities and long nails.
> >
>
> OK, all I'm getting from this is Danny DeVito in "Big Fish," and he's
> not Canadian, is he?
>

Oh the humanity!
> - bc

Proton Soup
August 6th 04, 11:29 PM
On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 20:45:35 GMT, (The Queen of
Cans and Jars) wrote:

>Proton Soup > wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 13:43:44 GMT, "Lee Michaels"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"The Queen of Cans and Jars" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >> Mick R. > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > "The Queen of Cans and Jars" > wrote in message
>> >> > . ..
>> >> > > bc > wrote:
>> >> > >
>> >> > > > On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 00:42:11 GMT, (The Queen
>> >of
>> >> > > > Cans and Jars) wrote:
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > >elzinator > wrote:
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > > >> On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 12:45:59 GMT, bc wrote:
>> >> > > > >> >On 5 Aug 2004 03:19:32 -0700, (Marv) wrote:
>> >> > > > >> >>elzinator > wrote:
>> >> > > > >> >>> On 30 Jul 2004 03:20:21 -0700, Marv wrote:
>> >> > > > >> >>> >OK so from all the mixed responses that I've got from here
>> >and
>> >> > > > >> >>> >drsquats, I can safely deduce the fact that Evening Workouts
>> >ARE
>> >> > > > >> >>> >better than Morning Workouts.
>> >> > > > >> >>> >
>> >> > > > >> >>> >Damn!! my worst fear has been proved right, guess I'll have
>> >to
>> >> > make do
>> >> > > > >> >>> >with the morning routine and settle for less :(
>> >> > > > >> >>>
>> >> > > > >> >>> I like mid-day workouts....
>> >> > > > >> >>>
>> >> > > > >> >>>
>> >> > > > >> >>> Beelzibub
>> >> > > > >> >>>
>> >> > > > >> >>> The human in us owes fealty to humanity. But the wolf in us
>> >> > > > >> >>> acknowledges no master.
>> >> > > > >> >>
>> >> > > > >> >>Hey bub, I like eveining workouts... but I have no choice but
>> >to do
>> >> > it
>> >> > > > >> >>in the morning.
>> >> > > > >> >
>> >> > > > >> >Chuckle ... calling Elzi "bub." That's just funny somehow.
>> >> > > > >>
>> >> > > > >> Better than 'Sir'.
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > > >people sometimes call me 'sir' on the phone.
>> >> > > > >
>> >> > > > >grrrrrrrrr.
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > My wife hates being called Ma'am. It makes her feel old.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > at least THEY GET THE DAMN GENDER CORRECT.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > i'd much rather be called "ma'am" than "sir."
>> >> > >
>> >> > > you know, since i'm a woman and all.
>> >> >
>> >> > You realise that we are now obliged to ask for jpegs?
>> >>
>> >> oh, what the hell.
>> >>
>> >> http://tinypic.com/1gmyt
>> >
>> >So Queenie is a cyborg??
>>
>> No, the camera is detachable.
>
>shhh! they'll think i'm human!

Relax, I don't think there's any chance of that.

Oh wait, that didn't come out right... nevermind.

-----------
Proton Soup

"Homo sapiens non urinat in ventum."

The Queen of Cans and Jars
August 7th 04, 01:26 AM
Mick R. > wrote:

> "The Queen of Cans and Jars" > wrote in message
> . ..
> > Proton Soup > wrote:
> >
> > > On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 13:43:44 GMT, "Lee Michaels"
> > > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >"The Queen of Cans and Jars" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > >> Mick R. > wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> > "The Queen of Cans and Jars" > wrote in
> message
> > > >> > . ..
> > > >> > > bc > wrote:
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > > On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 00:42:11 GMT, (The
> Queen
> > > >of
> > > >> > > > Cans and Jars) wrote:
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > > >elzinator > wrote:
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >> On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 12:45:59 GMT, bc wrote:
> > > >> > > > >> >On 5 Aug 2004 03:19:32 -0700, (Marv)
> wrote:
> > > >> > > > >> >>elzinator > wrote:
> > > >> > > > >> >>> On 30 Jul 2004 03:20:21 -0700, Marv wrote:
> > > >> > > > >> >>> >OK so from all the mixed responses that I've got from
> here
> > > >and
> > > >> > > > >> >>> >drsquats, I can safely deduce the fact that Evening
> Workouts
> > > >ARE
> > > >> > > > >> >>> >better than Morning Workouts.
> > > >> > > > >> >>> >
> > > >> > > > >> >>> >Damn!! my worst fear has been proved right, guess I'll
> have
> > > >to
> > > >> > make do
> > > >> > > > >> >>> >with the morning routine and settle for less :(
> > > >> > > > >> >>>
> > > >> > > > >> >>> I like mid-day workouts....
> > > >> > > > >> >>>
> > > >> > > > >> >>>
> > > >> > > > >> >>> Beelzibub
> > > >> > > > >> >>>
> > > >> > > > >> >>> The human in us owes fealty to humanity. But the wolf in
> us
> > > >> > > > >> >>> acknowledges no master.
> > > >> > > > >> >>
> > > >> > > > >> >>Hey bub, I like eveining workouts... but I have no choice
> but
> > > >to do
> > > >> > it
> > > >> > > > >> >>in the morning.
> > > >> > > > >> >
> > > >> > > > >> >Chuckle ... calling Elzi "bub." That's just funny
> somehow.
> > > >> > > > >>
> > > >> > > > >> Better than 'Sir'.
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >people sometimes call me 'sir' on the phone.
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > >grrrrrrrrr.
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > > My wife hates being called Ma'am. It makes her feel old.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > at least THEY GET THE DAMN GENDER CORRECT.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > i'd much rather be called "ma'am" than "sir."
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > you know, since i'm a woman and all.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > You realise that we are now obliged to ask for jpegs?
> > > >>
> > > >> oh, what the hell.
> > > >>
> > > >> http://tinypic.com/1gmyt
> > > >
> > > >So Queenie is a cyborg??
> > >
> > > No, the camera is detachable.
> >
> > shhh! they'll think i'm human!
>
> Even I know you better than that.
> That pic is a little shaky, are you stacking ephedra?

no, it's just a hand-held shot in low light.

The Queen of Cans and Jars
August 7th 04, 01:26 AM
Proton Soup > wrote:

> On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 20:45:35 GMT, (The Queen of
> Cans and Jars) wrote:
>
> >Proton Soup > wrote:
> >
> >> On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 13:43:44 GMT, "Lee Michaels"
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >"The Queen of Cans and Jars" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> >> Mick R. > wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > "The Queen of Cans and Jars" > wrote in message
> >> >> > . ..
> >> >> > > bc > wrote:
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > > On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 00:42:11 GMT, (The Queen
> >> >of
> >> >> > > > Cans and Jars) wrote:
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > >elzinator > wrote:
> >> >> > > > >
> >> >> > > > >> On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 12:45:59 GMT, bc wrote:
> >> >> > > > >> >On 5 Aug 2004 03:19:32 -0700, (Marv) wrote:
> >> >> > > > >> >>elzinator > wrote:
> >> >> > > > >> >>> On 30 Jul 2004 03:20:21 -0700, Marv wrote:
> >> >> > > > >> >>> >OK so from all the mixed responses that I've got from here
> >> >and
> >> >> > > > >> >>> >drsquats, I can safely deduce the fact that Evening
> >> >> > > > >> >>> >Workouts ARE better than Morning Workouts.
> >> >> > > > >> >>> >
> >> >> > > > >> >>> >Damn!! my worst fear has been proved right, guess I'll
> >> >> > > > >> >>> >have to make do with the morning routine and settle
> >> >> > > > >> >>> >for less :(
> >> >> > > > >> >>>
> >> >> > > > >> >>> I like mid-day workouts....
> >> >> > > > >> >>>
> >> >> > > > >> >>>
> >> >> > > > >> >>> Beelzibub
> >> >> > > > >> >>>
> >> >> > > > >> >>> The human in us owes fealty to humanity. But the wolf in us
> >> >> > > > >> >>> acknowledges no master.
> >> >> > > > >> >>
> >> >> > > > >> >>Hey bub, I like eveining workouts... but I have no choice
> >> >> > > > >> >>but to do it in the morning.
> >> >> > > > >> >
> >> >> > > > >> >Chuckle ... calling Elzi "bub." That's just funny somehow.
> >> >> > > > >>
> >> >> > > > >> Better than 'Sir'.
> >> >> > > > >
> >> >> > > > >people sometimes call me 'sir' on the phone.
> >> >> > > > >
> >> >> > > > >grrrrrrrrr.
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > My wife hates being called Ma'am. It makes her feel old.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > at least THEY GET THE DAMN GENDER CORRECT.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > i'd much rather be called "ma'am" than "sir."
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > you know, since i'm a woman and all.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > You realise that we are now obliged to ask for jpegs?
> >> >>
> >> >> oh, what the hell.
> >> >>
> >> >> http://tinypic.com/1gmyt
> >> >
> >> >So Queenie is a cyborg??
> >>
> >> No, the camera is detachable.
> >
> >shhh! they'll think i'm human!
>
> Relax, I don't think there's any chance of that.
>
> Oh wait, that didn't come out right... nevermind.

uh

huh

The Queen of Cans and Jars
August 7th 04, 01:26 AM
Jeff Finlayson > wrote:

> The Queen of Cans and Jars wrote:
> > Jeff Finlayson wrote:
> >>The Queen of Cans and Jars wrote:
> >>>elzinator wrote:
> >>>>bc wrote:
>
> >>>>>Chuckle ... calling Elzi "bub." That's just funny somehow.
> >>>>
> >>>>Better than 'Sir'.
> >>>
> >>>people sometimes call me 'sir' on the phone.
> >>
> >>That'll make for a short conversation. Answer with a Click!
> >
> > and lose my job? yeah, that'd be swell.
>
> Oh nevermind..

:P

elzinator
August 7th 04, 01:39 AM
On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 13:35:24 GMT, The Queen of Cans and Jars wrote:
>Mick R. > wrote:
>
>> "The Queen of Cans and Jars" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>> > bc > wrote:
>> >
>> > > On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 00:42:11 GMT, (The Queen of
>> > > Cans and Jars) wrote:
>> > >
>> > > >elzinator > wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > >> On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 12:45:59 GMT, bc wrote:

>> > > >> >Chuckle ... calling Elzi "bub." That's just funny somehow.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Better than 'Sir'.
>> > > >
>> > > >people sometimes call me 'sir' on the phone.
>> > > >
>> > > >grrrrrrrrr.

It's worse when the girl behind the counter at Home Depot calls you
'Sir.'

>> > > My wife hates being called Ma'am. It makes her feel old.
>> >
>> > at least THEY GET THE DAMN GENDER CORRECT.
>> >
>> > i'd much rather be called "ma'am" than "sir."
>> >
>> > you know, since i'm a woman and all.
>>
>> You realise that we are now obliged to ask for jpegs?
>
>oh, what the hell.
>
>http://tinypic.com/1gmyt

Dude, is that a Canon Rebel?? Huh, huh???


Beelzibub

The human in us owes fealty to humanity. But the wolf in us acknowledges no master.

elzinator
August 7th 04, 01:45 AM
On Fri, 6 Aug 2004 19:49:35 +1000, Mick R. wrote:
>
>"elzinator" > wrote in message
...
>> On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 12:45:59 GMT, bc wrote:
>> >On 5 Aug 2004 03:19:32 -0700, (Marv) wrote:
>> >
>> >>elzinator > wrote in message
>...
>> >>> On 30 Jul 2004 03:20:21 -0700, Marv wrote:
>> >>> >OK so from all the mixed responses that I've got from here and
>> >>> >drsquats, I can safely deduce the fact that Evening Workouts ARE
>> >>> >better than Morning Workouts.
>> >>> >
>> >>> >Damn!! my worst fear has been proved right, guess I'll have to make
>do
>> >>> >with the morning routine and settle for less :(
>> >>>
>> >>> I like mid-day workouts....
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Beelzibub
>> >>>
>> >>> The human in us owes fealty to humanity. But the wolf in us
>acknowledges no master.
>> >>
>> >>Hey bub, I like eveining workouts... but I have no choice but to do it
>> >>in the morning.
>> >
>> >Chuckle ... calling Elzi "bub." That's just funny somehow.
>>
>You hear that a lot if you hang out with short, hairy Canadians with unusual
>healing abilities and long nails.

Only if he's Australian, and not a dingo.


Gotta be something in that Aussie DNA considering Hugh Jackman and Ian
Thorpe...

Beelzibub

The human in us owes fealty to humanity. But the wolf in us acknowledges no master.

Larry Hodges
August 7th 04, 01:57 AM
The Queen of Cans and Jars wrote:
> Larry Hodges > wrote:
>
>> The Queen of Cans and Jars wrote:
>>> Mick R. > wrote:
>>>
>>>> "The Queen of Cans and Jars" > wrote in
>>>> message . ..
>>>>> bc > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 00:42:11 GMT, (The
>>>>>> Queen of Cans and Jars) wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> elzinator > wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 12:45:59 GMT, bc wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 5 Aug 2004 03:19:32 -0700, (Marv) wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> elzinator > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 30 Jul 2004 03:20:21 -0700, Marv wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> OK so from all the mixed responses that I've got from here
>>>>>>>>>>>> and drsquats, I can safely deduce the fact that Evening
>>>>>>>>>>>> Workouts ARE better than Morning Workouts.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Damn!! my worst fear has been proved right, guess I'll have
>>>>>>>>>>>> to make do with the morning routine and settle for less :(
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I like mid-day workouts....
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Beelzibub
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The human in us owes fealty to humanity. But the wolf in us
>>>>>>>>>>> acknowledges no master.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hey bub, I like eveining workouts... but I have no choice but
>>>>>>>>>> to do it in the morning.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Chuckle ... calling Elzi "bub." That's just funny somehow.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Better than 'Sir'.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> people sometimes call me 'sir' on the phone.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> grrrrrrrrr.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My wife hates being called Ma'am. It makes her feel old.
>>>>>
>>>>> at least THEY GET THE DAMN GENDER CORRECT.
>>>>>
>>>>> i'd much rather be called "ma'am" than "sir."
>>>>>
>>>>> you know, since i'm a woman and all.
>>>>
>>>> You realise that we are now obliged to ask for jpegs?
>>>
>>> oh, what the hell.
>>>
>>> http://tinypic.com/1gmyt
>>
>> Come on Queenie. I know you've got better ones than that!
>
> you miss the point entirely, as usual.

Yeah...right. The point was you were asked to post a pic of yourself. You
volunteered, but posted one of a nice camera instead. If you don't want to
post one, don't.

I think *you* missed the point...as usual.
--
-Larry

The Queen of Cans and Jars
August 7th 04, 02:24 AM
Larry Hodges > wrote:

> The Queen of Cans and Jars wrote:
> > Larry Hodges > wrote:
> >
> >> The Queen of Cans and Jars wrote:
> >>> Mick R. > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> "The Queen of Cans and Jars" > wrote in
> >>>> message . ..
> >>>>> bc > wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 00:42:11 GMT, (The
> >>>>>> Queen of Cans and Jars) wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> elzinator > wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 12:45:59 GMT, bc wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On 5 Aug 2004 03:19:32 -0700, (Marv) wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> elzinator > wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> On 30 Jul 2004 03:20:21 -0700, Marv wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> OK so from all the mixed responses that I've got from here
> >>>>>>>>>>>> and drsquats, I can safely deduce the fact that Evening
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Workouts ARE better than Morning Workouts.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Damn!! my worst fear has been proved right, guess I'll have
> >>>>>>>>>>>> to make do with the morning routine and settle for less :(
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> I like mid-day workouts....
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Beelzibub
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> The human in us owes fealty to humanity. But the wolf in us
> >>>>>>>>>>> acknowledges no master.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Hey bub, I like eveining workouts... but I have no choice but
> >>>>>>>>>> to do it in the morning.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Chuckle ... calling Elzi "bub." That's just funny somehow.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Better than 'Sir'.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> people sometimes call me 'sir' on the phone.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> grrrrrrrrr.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> My wife hates being called Ma'am. It makes her feel old.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> at least THEY GET THE DAMN GENDER CORRECT.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> i'd much rather be called "ma'am" than "sir."
> >>>>>
> >>>>> you know, since i'm a woman and all.
> >>>>
> >>>> You realise that we are now obliged to ask for jpegs?
> >>>
> >>> oh, what the hell.
> >>>
> >>> http://tinypic.com/1gmyt
> >>
> >> Come on Queenie. I know you've got better ones than that!
> >
> > you miss the point entirely, as usual.
>
> Yeah...right. The point was you were asked to post a pic of yourself. You
> volunteered, but posted one of a nice camera instead. If you don't want to
> post one, don't.
>
> I think *you* missed the point...as usual.

if i wanted to post a picture of my entire face or body, i would have.
OBviously, that's not what i wanted to do.

Proton Soup
August 7th 04, 02:28 AM
On Sat, 07 Aug 2004 00:26:33 GMT, (The Queen of
Cans and Jars) wrote:

>Proton Soup > wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 20:45:35 GMT, (The Queen of
>> Cans and Jars) wrote:
>>
>> >Proton Soup > wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 13:43:44 GMT, "Lee Michaels"
>> >> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >"The Queen of Cans and Jars" > wrote in message
>> >> ...
>> >> >> Mick R. > wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > "The Queen of Cans and Jars" > wrote in message
>> >> >> > . ..
>> >> >> > > bc > wrote:
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > > On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 00:42:11 GMT, (The Queen
>> >> >of
>> >> >> > > > Cans and Jars) wrote:
>> >> >> > > >
>> >> >> > > > >elzinator > wrote:
>> >> >> > > > >
>> >> >> > > > >> On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 12:45:59 GMT, bc wrote:
>> >> >> > > > >> >On 5 Aug 2004 03:19:32 -0700, (Marv) wrote:
>> >> >> > > > >> >>elzinator > wrote:
>> >> >> > > > >> >>> On 30 Jul 2004 03:20:21 -0700, Marv wrote:
>> >> >> > > > >> >>> >OK so from all the mixed responses that I've got from here
>> >> >and
>> >> >> > > > >> >>> >drsquats, I can safely deduce the fact that Evening
>> >> >> > > > >> >>> >Workouts ARE better than Morning Workouts.
>> >> >> > > > >> >>> >
>> >> >> > > > >> >>> >Damn!! my worst fear has been proved right, guess I'll
>> >> >> > > > >> >>> >have to make do with the morning routine and settle
>> >> >> > > > >> >>> >for less :(
>> >> >> > > > >> >>>
>> >> >> > > > >> >>> I like mid-day workouts....
>> >> >> > > > >> >>>
>> >> >> > > > >> >>>
>> >> >> > > > >> >>> Beelzibub
>> >> >> > > > >> >>>
>> >> >> > > > >> >>> The human in us owes fealty to humanity. But the wolf in us
>> >> >> > > > >> >>> acknowledges no master.
>> >> >> > > > >> >>
>> >> >> > > > >> >>Hey bub, I like eveining workouts... but I have no choice
>> >> >> > > > >> >>but to do it in the morning.
>> >> >> > > > >> >
>> >> >> > > > >> >Chuckle ... calling Elzi "bub." That's just funny somehow.
>> >> >> > > > >>
>> >> >> > > > >> Better than 'Sir'.
>> >> >> > > > >
>> >> >> > > > >people sometimes call me 'sir' on the phone.
>> >> >> > > > >
>> >> >> > > > >grrrrrrrrr.
>> >> >> > > >
>> >> >> > > > My wife hates being called Ma'am. It makes her feel old.
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > at least THEY GET THE DAMN GENDER CORRECT.
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > i'd much rather be called "ma'am" than "sir."
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > you know, since i'm a woman and all.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > You realise that we are now obliged to ask for jpegs?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> oh, what the hell.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> http://tinypic.com/1gmyt
>> >> >
>> >> >So Queenie is a cyborg??
>> >>
>> >> No, the camera is detachable.
>> >
>> >shhh! they'll think i'm human!
>>
>> Relax, I don't think there's any chance of that.
>>
>> Oh wait, that didn't come out right... nevermind.
>
>uh
>
>huh

Ah, sorry, I'll try and stick with what I know best, self-deprecation.

-----------
Proton Soup

"Homo sapiens non urinat in ventum."

John M. Williams
August 7th 04, 04:22 AM
(The Queen of Cans and Jars) wrote:

>Larry Hodges > wrote:
>
>> The Queen of Cans and Jars wrote:
>> > Larry Hodges > wrote:
>> >
>> >> The Queen of Cans and Jars wrote:
>> >>> Mick R. > wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> "The Queen of Cans and Jars" > wrote in
>> >>>> message . ..
>> >>>>> bc > wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 00:42:11 GMT, (The
>> >>>>>> Queen of Cans and Jars) wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> elzinator > wrote:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 12:45:59 GMT, bc wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>> On 5 Aug 2004 03:19:32 -0700, (Marv) wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>> elzinator > wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 30 Jul 2004 03:20:21 -0700, Marv wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> OK so from all the mixed responses that I've got from here
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> and drsquats, I can safely deduce the fact that Evening
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Workouts ARE better than Morning Workouts.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Damn!! my worst fear has been proved right, guess I'll have
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> to make do with the morning routine and settle for less :(
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> I like mid-day workouts....
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Beelzibub
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> The human in us owes fealty to humanity. But the wolf in us
>> >>>>>>>>>>> acknowledges no master.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Hey bub, I like eveining workouts... but I have no choice but
>> >>>>>>>>>> to do it in the morning.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Chuckle ... calling Elzi "bub." That's just funny somehow.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Better than 'Sir'.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> people sometimes call me 'sir' on the phone.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> grrrrrrrrr.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> My wife hates being called Ma'am. It makes her feel old.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> at least THEY GET THE DAMN GENDER CORRECT.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> i'd much rather be called "ma'am" than "sir."
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> you know, since i'm a woman and all.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> You realise that we are now obliged to ask for jpegs?
>> >>>
>> >>> oh, what the hell.
>> >>>
>> >>> http://tinypic.com/1gmyt
>> >>
>> >> Come on Queenie. I know you've got better ones than that!
>> >
>> > you miss the point entirely, as usual.
>>
>> Yeah...right. The point was you were asked to post a pic of yourself. You
>> volunteered, but posted one of a nice camera instead. If you don't want to
>> post one, don't.
>>
>> I think *you* missed the point...as usual.
>
>if i wanted to post a picture of my entire face or body, i would have.
>OBviously, that's not what i wanted to do.

I kinda like the Borg look.

bc
August 7th 04, 05:39 AM
On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 19:45:25 -0500, elzinator
> wrote:

>On Fri, 6 Aug 2004 19:49:35 +1000, Mick R. wrote:
>>
>>"elzinator" > wrote in message
...
>>> On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 12:45:59 GMT, bc wrote:
>>> >On 5 Aug 2004 03:19:32 -0700, (Marv) wrote:
>>> >
>>> >>elzinator > wrote in message
>...
>>> >>> On 30 Jul 2004 03:20:21 -0700, Marv wrote:
>>> >>> >OK so from all the mixed responses that I've got from here and
>>> >>> >drsquats, I can safely deduce the fact that Evening Workouts ARE
>>> >>> >better than Morning Workouts.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >Damn!! my worst fear has been proved right, guess I'll have to make
>>do
>>> >>> >with the morning routine and settle for less :(
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I like mid-day workouts....
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Beelzibub
>>> >>>
>>> >>> The human in us owes fealty to humanity. But the wolf in us
>>acknowledges no master.
>>> >>
>>> >>Hey bub, I like eveining workouts... but I have no choice but to do it
>>> >>in the morning.
>>> >
>>> >Chuckle ... calling Elzi "bub." That's just funny somehow.
>>>
>>You hear that a lot if you hang out with short, hairy Canadians with unusual
>>healing abilities and long nails.
>
>Only if he's Australian, and not a dingo.
>
>
>Gotta be something in that Aussie DNA considering Hugh Jackman

Oh yeah, that hairy Canadian. Is he short?

- bc

The Queen of Cans and Jars
August 7th 04, 05:22 PM
elzinator > wrote:

> On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 13:35:24 GMT, The Queen of Cans and Jars wrote:
> >Mick R. > wrote:
> >
> >> "The Queen of Cans and Jars" > wrote in message
> >> . ..
> >> > bc > wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 00:42:11 GMT, (The Queen of
> >> > > Cans and Jars) wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > >elzinator > wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > >> On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 12:45:59 GMT, bc wrote:
>
> >> > > >> >Chuckle ... calling Elzi "bub." That's just funny somehow.
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> Better than 'Sir'.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >people sometimes call me 'sir' on the phone.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >grrrrrrrrr.
>
> It's worse when the girl behind the counter at Home Depot calls you
> 'Sir.'

ooh, that would suck.

> >> > > My wife hates being called Ma'am. It makes her feel old.
> >> >
> >> > at least THEY GET THE DAMN GENDER CORRECT.
> >> >
> >> > i'd much rather be called "ma'am" than "sir."
> >> >
> >> > you know, since i'm a woman and all.
> >>
> >> You realise that we are now obliged to ask for jpegs?
> >
> >oh, what the hell.
> >
> >http://tinypic.com/1gmyt
>
> Dude, is that a Canon Rebel?? Huh, huh???

EOS 10D, actually - the model right above the rebel. i'm not sure what
the difference is; i suspect that the rebel has a plastic body. i
bought mine before they came out with the rebel. it's an awe-inspiring
piece of equipment.

elzinator
August 7th 04, 06:08 PM
On Sat, 07 Aug 2004 16:22:02 GMT, The Queen of Cans and Jars wrote:
>elzinator > wrote:

>> Dude, is that a Canon Rebel?? Huh, huh???
>
>EOS 10D, actually - the model right above the rebel. i'm not sure what
>the difference is; i suspect that the rebel has a plastic body. i
>bought mine before they came out with the rebel. it's an awe-inspiring
>piece of equipment.

Yup, same pixel but has more features, especially simultaneous RAW and
JPEG formats. If I recall, also has more fps (up to 9 consecutive
frames), slightly more than the Rebel. Which is better for
action/sport shots. Rebel is lighter then the EOS 10D magnesium alloy
body, and, in all, cheaper moreso because base price for Rebel
includes a lens, whereas no lenses are included in base price for EOS
10D. I also like the elevated flash on the Rebel. Why they didn't
incorporate that on the EOS models is odd.

My choice will depend on
a) compatibility of the lenses on my current SLR Canon (it's in
Austin; need to retrieve it next visit), and
b) income windfall.

A recent model had me drooling last time I visited the camera
shop......

Beelzibub

The human in us owes fealty to humanity. But the wolf in us acknowledges no master.

Art S
August 7th 04, 09:14 PM
"elzinator" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 07 Aug 2004 16:22:02 GMT, The Queen of Cans and Jars wrote:
> >elzinator > wrote:
>
> >> Dude, is that a Canon Rebel?? Huh, huh???
> >
> >EOS 10D, actually - the model right above the rebel. i'm not sure what
> >the difference is; i suspect that the rebel has a plastic body. i
> >bought mine before they came out with the rebel. it's an awe-inspiring
> >piece of equipment.
>
> Yup, same pixel but has more features, especially simultaneous RAW and
> JPEG formats. If I recall, also has more fps (up to 9 consecutive
> frames), slightly more than the Rebel. Which is better for
> action/sport shots.

It also lets you customize a lot of options that the Rebel doesn't. Not
important for the general populace, but if you have special requirements
it may be important. (I want mirror lock-up. Can't do that with the Rebel.)

> Rebel is lighter then the EOS 10D magnesium alloy
> body, and, in all, cheaper moreso because base price for Rebel
> includes a lens, whereas no lenses are included in base price for EOS
> 10D. I also like the elevated flash on the Rebel. Why they didn't
> incorporate that on the EOS models is odd.

The expectation is that someone using the 10D will use a separate
flash, and not the one included with the camera.

According to my boss (who has the Rebel), there are some lens
combinations that don't work (extenders, etc.).

>
> My choice will depend on
> a) compatibility of the lenses on my current SLR Canon (it's in
> Austin; need to retrieve it next visit), and
> b) income windfall.
>
> A recent model had me drooling last time I visited the camera
> shop......

If compatability with those lens is important, test them on the camera
(including looking at the results) before purchasing or during the trial
period. I've tried several 75 - 300 mm lens with my 10D and didn't
get sharp results. my 100 mm is quite sharp, though.

Art

Mick R.
August 7th 04, 11:44 PM
"bc" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 19:45:25 -0500, elzinator
> > wrote:
>
> >On Fri, 6 Aug 2004 19:49:35 +1000, Mick R. wrote:
> >>
> >>"elzinator" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>> On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 12:45:59 GMT, bc wrote:
> >>> >On 5 Aug 2004 03:19:32 -0700, (Marv) wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> >>elzinator > wrote in message
> >...
> >>> >>> On 30 Jul 2004 03:20:21 -0700, Marv wrote:
> >>> >>> >OK so from all the mixed responses that I've got from here and
> >>> >>> >drsquats, I can safely deduce the fact that Evening Workouts ARE
> >>> >>> >better than Morning Workouts.
> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >Damn!! my worst fear has been proved right, guess I'll have to
make
> >>do
> >>> >>> >with the morning routine and settle for less :(
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> I like mid-day workouts....
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> Beelzibub
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> The human in us owes fealty to humanity. But the wolf in us
> >>acknowledges no master.
> >>> >>
> >>> >>Hey bub, I like eveining workouts... but I have no choice but to do
it
> >>> >>in the morning.
> >>> >
> >>> >Chuckle ... calling Elzi "bub." That's just funny somehow.
> >>>
> >>You hear that a lot if you hang out with short, hairy Canadians with
unusual
> >>healing abilities and long nails.
> >
> >Only if he's Australian, and not a dingo.
> >
> >
> >Gotta be something in that Aussie DNA considering Hugh Jackman
>
> Oh yeah, that hairy Canadian. Is he short?

Hugh Jackman is around 6' tall and Australian.

Traditionally Wolverine is around 5'2", 250lbs, under 10%bf and Canadian.
hth
--
Mick R.

Until you get pretty good at it, deadlifting is 90% half mental. - Wayne S.
Hill
>
> - bc

Mick R.
August 7th 04, 11:45 PM
"John M. Williams" > wrote in message
...
> (The Queen of Cans and Jars) wrote:
>
> >Larry Hodges > wrote:
> >
> >> The Queen of Cans and Jars wrote:
> >> > Larry Hodges > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> The Queen of Cans and Jars wrote:
> >> >>> Mick R. > wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>> "The Queen of Cans and Jars" > wrote in
> >> >>>> message . ..
> >> >>>>> bc > wrote:
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>> On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 00:42:11 GMT, (The
> >> >>>>>> Queen of Cans and Jars) wrote:
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> elzinator > wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>> On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 12:45:59 GMT, bc wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>>> On 5 Aug 2004 03:19:32 -0700, (Marv)
wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>>>> elzinator > wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> On 30 Jul 2004 03:20:21 -0700, Marv wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> OK so from all the mixed responses that I've got from here
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> and drsquats, I can safely deduce the fact that Evening
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Workouts ARE better than Morning Workouts.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Damn!! my worst fear has been proved right, guess I'll
have
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> to make do with the morning routine and settle for less :(
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> I like mid-day workouts....
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Beelzibub
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> The human in us owes fealty to humanity. But the wolf in us
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> acknowledges no master.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>> Hey bub, I like eveining workouts... but I have no choice
but
> >> >>>>>>>>>> to do it in the morning.
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> Chuckle ... calling Elzi "bub." That's just funny somehow.
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>> Better than 'Sir'.
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> people sometimes call me 'sir' on the phone.
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> grrrrrrrrr.
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> My wife hates being called Ma'am. It makes her feel old.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> at least THEY GET THE DAMN GENDER CORRECT.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> i'd much rather be called "ma'am" than "sir."
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> you know, since i'm a woman and all.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> You realise that we are now obliged to ask for jpegs?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> oh, what the hell.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> http://tinypic.com/1gmyt
> >> >>
> >> >> Come on Queenie. I know you've got better ones than that!
> >> >
> >> > you miss the point entirely, as usual.
> >>
> >> Yeah...right. The point was you were asked to post a pic of yourself.
You
> >> volunteered, but posted one of a nice camera instead. If you don't
want to
> >> post one, don't.
> >>
> >> I think *you* missed the point...as usual.
> >
> >if i wanted to post a picture of my entire face or body, i would have.
> >OBviously, that's not what i wanted to do.
>
> I kinda like the Borg look.

She can assimilate me!

Was I typing out loud?

.... oh dear ...

Lee Michaels
August 8th 04, 12:00 AM
"Mick R." > wrote in message
...
>
> "John M. Williams" > wrote in message
> ...
> > (The Queen of Cans and Jars) wrote:
> >
> > >Larry Hodges > wrote:
> > >
> > >> The Queen of Cans and Jars wrote:
> > >> > Larry Hodges > wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> >> The Queen of Cans and Jars wrote:
> > >> >>> Mick R. > wrote:
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>>> "The Queen of Cans and Jars" > wrote in
> > >> >>>> message . ..
> > >> >>>>> bc > wrote:
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>>>> On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 00:42:11 GMT, (The
> > >> >>>>>> Queen of Cans and Jars) wrote:
> > >> >>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>> elzinator > wrote:
> > >> >>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>> On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 12:45:59 GMT, bc wrote:
> > >> >>>>>>>>> On 5 Aug 2004 03:19:32 -0700, (Marv)
> wrote:
> > >> >>>>>>>>>> elzinator > wrote:
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> On 30 Jul 2004 03:20:21 -0700, Marv wrote:
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> OK so from all the mixed responses that I've got from
here
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> and drsquats, I can safely deduce the fact that Evening
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Workouts ARE better than Morning Workouts.
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Damn!! my worst fear has been proved right, guess I'll
> have
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>> to make do with the morning routine and settle for less
:(
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> I like mid-day workouts....
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> Beelzibub
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> The human in us owes fealty to humanity. But the wolf in
us
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> acknowledges no master.
> > >> >>>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>>> Hey bub, I like eveining workouts... but I have no choice
> but
> > >> >>>>>>>>>> to do it in the morning.
> > >> >>>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>>> Chuckle ... calling Elzi "bub." That's just funny
somehow.
> > >> >>>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>> Better than 'Sir'.
> > >> >>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>> people sometimes call me 'sir' on the phone.
> > >> >>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>> grrrrrrrrr.
> > >> >>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>> My wife hates being called Ma'am. It makes her feel old.
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>>> at least THEY GET THE DAMN GENDER CORRECT.
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>>> i'd much rather be called "ma'am" than "sir."
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>>> you know, since i'm a woman and all.
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>> You realise that we are now obliged to ask for jpegs?
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> oh, what the hell.
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> http://tinypic.com/1gmyt
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Come on Queenie. I know you've got better ones than that!
> > >> >
> > >> > you miss the point entirely, as usual.
> > >>
> > >> Yeah...right. The point was you were asked to post a pic of
yourself.
> You
> > >> volunteered, but posted one of a nice camera instead. If you don't
> want to
> > >> post one, don't.
> > >>
> > >> I think *you* missed the point...as usual.
> > >
> > >if i wanted to post a picture of my entire face or body, i would have.
> > >OBviously, that's not what i wanted to do.
> >
> > I kinda like the Borg look.
>
> She can assimilate me!
>
> Was I typing out loud?
>
> ... oh dear ...
>
Resistance is futile.

The Queen of Cans and Jars
August 9th 04, 02:05 PM
John M. Williams > wrote:

> (The Queen of Cans and Jars) wrote:
>
> >Larry Hodges > wrote:
> >
> >> The Queen of Cans and Jars wrote:
> >> > Larry Hodges > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> The Queen of Cans and Jars wrote:
> >> >>> Mick R. > wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>> "The Queen of Cans and Jars" > wrote in
> >> >>>> message . ..
> >> >>>>> bc > wrote:
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>> On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 00:42:11 GMT, (The
> >> >>>>>> Queen of Cans and Jars) wrote:
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> elzinator > wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>> On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 12:45:59 GMT, bc wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>>> On 5 Aug 2004 03:19:32 -0700, (Marv) wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>>>> elzinator > wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> On 30 Jul 2004 03:20:21 -0700, Marv wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> OK so from all the mixed responses that I've got from here
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> and drsquats, I can safely deduce the fact that Evening
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Workouts ARE better than Morning Workouts.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Damn!! my worst fear has been proved right, guess I'll have
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> to make do with the morning routine and settle for less :(
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> I like mid-day workouts....
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Beelzibub
> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> The human in us owes fealty to humanity. But the wolf in us
> >> >>>>>>>>>>> acknowledges no master.
> >> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>> Hey bub, I like eveining workouts... but I have no choice but
> >> >>>>>>>>>> to do it in the morning.
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> Chuckle ... calling Elzi "bub." That's just funny somehow.
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>> Better than 'Sir'.
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> people sometimes call me 'sir' on the phone.
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> grrrrrrrrr.
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> My wife hates being called Ma'am. It makes her feel old.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> at least THEY GET THE DAMN GENDER CORRECT.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> i'd much rather be called "ma'am" than "sir."
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> you know, since i'm a woman and all.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> You realise that we are now obliged to ask for jpegs?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> oh, what the hell.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> http://tinypic.com/1gmyt
> >> >>
> >> >> Come on Queenie. I know you've got better ones than that!
> >> >
> >> > you miss the point entirely, as usual.
> >>
> >> Yeah...right. The point was you were asked to post a pic of yourself. You
> >> volunteered, but posted one of a nice camera instead. If you don't want to
> >> post one, don't.
> >>
> >> I think *you* missed the point...as usual.
> >
> >if i wanted to post a picture of my entire face or body, i would have.
> >OBviously, that's not what i wanted to do.
>
> I kinda like the Borg look.

it's actually a very fair representation of the queenie mien: i'm
slightly blurry around the edges and i frequently have a camera in front
of my face.

bc
August 9th 04, 03:32 PM
"Mick R." > wrote in message >...
> "bc" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 19:45:25 -0500, elzinator
> > > wrote:
> >
> > >On Fri, 6 Aug 2004 19:49:35 +1000, Mick R. wrote:
> > >>
> > >>"elzinator" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >>> On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 12:45:59 GMT, bc wrote:
> > >>> >On 5 Aug 2004 03:19:32 -0700, (Marv) wrote:
> > >>> >
> > >>> >>elzinator > wrote in message
> >...
> > >>> >>> On 30 Jul 2004 03:20:21 -0700, Marv wrote:
> > >>> >>> >OK so from all the mixed responses that I've got from here and
> > >>> >>> >drsquats, I can safely deduce the fact that Evening Workouts ARE
> > >>> >>> >better than Morning Workouts.
> > >>> >>> >
> > >>> >>> >Damn!! my worst fear has been proved right, guess I'll have to
> make
> do
> > >>> >>> >with the morning routine and settle for less :(
> > >>> >>>
> > >>> >>> I like mid-day workouts....
> > >>> >>>
> > >>> >>>
> > >>> >>> Beelzibub
> > >>> >>>
> > >>> >>> The human in us owes fealty to humanity. But the wolf in us
> acknowledges no master.
> > >>> >>
> > >>> >>Hey bub, I like eveining workouts... but I have no choice but to do
> it
> > >>> >>in the morning.
> > >>> >
> > >>> >Chuckle ... calling Elzi "bub." That's just funny somehow.
> > >>>
> > >>You hear that a lot if you hang out with short, hairy Canadians with
> unusual
> > >>healing abilities and long nails.
> > >
> > >Only if he's Australian, and not a dingo.
> > >
> > >
> > >Gotta be something in that Aussie DNA considering Hugh Jackman
> >
> > Oh yeah, that hairy Canadian. Is he short?
>
> Hugh Jackman is around 6' tall and Australian.
>
> Traditionally Wolverine is around 5'2", 250lbs, under 10%bf and Canadian.
> hth

So I was closer with DeVido?

- bc

Mick R.
August 9th 04, 09:28 PM
"bc" > wrote in message
om...
> "Mick R." > wrote in message
>...
> > "bc" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 19:45:25 -0500, elzinator
> > > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >On Fri, 6 Aug 2004 19:49:35 +1000, Mick R. wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>"elzinator" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > >>> On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 12:45:59 GMT, bc wrote:
> > > >>> >On 5 Aug 2004 03:19:32 -0700, (Marv) wrote:
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> >>elzinator > wrote in message
> > >...
> > > >>> >>> On 30 Jul 2004 03:20:21 -0700, Marv wrote:
> > > >>> >>> >OK so from all the mixed responses that I've got from here
and
> > > >>> >>> >drsquats, I can safely deduce the fact that Evening Workouts
ARE
> > > >>> >>> >better than Morning Workouts.
> > > >>> >>> >
> > > >>> >>> >Damn!! my worst fear has been proved right, guess I'll have
to
> > make
> > do
> > > >>> >>> >with the morning routine and settle for less :(
> > > >>> >>>
> > > >>> >>> I like mid-day workouts....
> > > >>> >>>
> > > >>> >>>
> > > >>> >>> Beelzibub
> > > >>> >>>
> > > >>> >>> The human in us owes fealty to humanity. But the wolf in us
> > acknowledges no master.
> > > >>> >>
> > > >>> >>Hey bub, I like eveining workouts... but I have no choice but to
do
> > it
> > > >>> >>in the morning.
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> >Chuckle ... calling Elzi "bub." That's just funny somehow.
> > > >>>
> > > >>You hear that a lot if you hang out with short, hairy Canadians with
> > unusual
> > > >>healing abilities and long nails.
> > > >
> > > >Only if he's Australian, and not a dingo.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Gotta be something in that Aussie DNA considering Hugh Jackman
> > >
> > > Oh yeah, that hairy Canadian. Is he short?
> >
> > Hugh Jackman is around 6' tall and Australian.
> >
> > Traditionally Wolverine is around 5'2", 250lbs, under 10%bf and
Canadian.
> > hth
>
> So I was closer with DeVido?
>
> - bc

Hairier than DeVito, ripped and with a way worse temper. Other than that
pretty close. Ironically Jackman played Wolverine (and did a great job) in
both movies. Devito is closer to Mini-Me than Wolverine.

bc
August 10th 04, 03:17 AM
On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 06:28:27 +1000, "Mick R."
> wrote:

>
>"bc" > wrote in message
om...
>> "Mick R." > wrote in message
>...
>> > "bc" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> > > On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 19:45:25 -0500, elzinator
>> > > > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > >On Fri, 6 Aug 2004 19:49:35 +1000, Mick R. wrote:
>> > > >>
>> > > >>"elzinator" > wrote in message
>> > > ...
>> > > >>> On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 12:45:59 GMT, bc wrote:
>> > > >>> >On 5 Aug 2004 03:19:32 -0700, (Marv) wrote:
>> > > >>> >
>> > > >>> >>elzinator > wrote in message
>> > >...
>> > > >>> >>> On 30 Jul 2004 03:20:21 -0700, Marv wrote:
>> > > >>> >>> >OK so from all the mixed responses that I've got from here
>and
>> > > >>> >>> >drsquats, I can safely deduce the fact that Evening Workouts
>ARE
>> > > >>> >>> >better than Morning Workouts.
>> > > >>> >>> >
>> > > >>> >>> >Damn!! my worst fear has been proved right, guess I'll have
>to
>> > make
>> > do
>> > > >>> >>> >with the morning routine and settle for less :(
>> > > >>> >>>
>> > > >>> >>> I like mid-day workouts....
>> > > >>> >>>
>> > > >>> >>>
>> > > >>> >>> Beelzibub
>> > > >>> >>>
>> > > >>> >>> The human in us owes fealty to humanity. But the wolf in us
>> > acknowledges no master.
>> > > >>> >>
>> > > >>> >>Hey bub, I like eveining workouts... but I have no choice but to
>do
>> > it
>> > > >>> >>in the morning.
>> > > >>> >
>> > > >>> >Chuckle ... calling Elzi "bub." That's just funny somehow.
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>You hear that a lot if you hang out with short, hairy Canadians with
>> > unusual
>> > > >>healing abilities and long nails.
>> > > >
>> > > >Only if he's Australian, and not a dingo.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >Gotta be something in that Aussie DNA considering Hugh Jackman
>> > >
>> > > Oh yeah, that hairy Canadian. Is he short?
>> >
>> > Hugh Jackman is around 6' tall and Australian.
>> >
>> > Traditionally Wolverine is around 5'2", 250lbs, under 10%bf and
>Canadian.
>> > hth
>>
>> So I was closer with DeVido?
>>
>> - bc
>
>Hairier than DeVito, ripped and with a way worse temper. Other than that
>pretty close. Ironically Jackman played Wolverine (and did a great job) in
>both movies. Devito is closer to Mini-Me than Wolverine.
>

I'm thinking Celebrity Deathmatch.

- bc

Mick R.
August 10th 04, 09:58 AM
"bc" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 06:28:27 +1000, "Mick R."
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >"bc" > wrote in message
> om...
> >> "Mick R." > wrote in message
> >...
> >> > "bc" > wrote in message
> >> > ...
> >> > > On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 19:45:25 -0500, elzinator
> >> > > > wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > >On Fri, 6 Aug 2004 19:49:35 +1000, Mick R. wrote:
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >>"elzinator" > wrote in message
> >> > > ...
> >> > > >>> On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 12:45:59 GMT, bc wrote:
> >> > > >>> >On 5 Aug 2004 03:19:32 -0700, (Marv) wrote:
> >> > > >>> >
> >> > > >>> >>elzinator > wrote in message
> >> > >...
> >> > > >>> >>> On 30 Jul 2004 03:20:21 -0700, Marv wrote:
> >> > > >>> >>> >OK so from all the mixed responses that I've got from here
> >and
> >> > > >>> >>> >drsquats, I can safely deduce the fact that Evening
Workouts
> >ARE
> >> > > >>> >>> >better than Morning Workouts.
> >> > > >>> >>> >
> >> > > >>> >>> >Damn!! my worst fear has been proved right, guess I'll
have
> >to
> >> > make
> >> > do
> >> > > >>> >>> >with the morning routine and settle for less :(
> >> > > >>> >>>
> >> > > >>> >>> I like mid-day workouts....
> >> > > >>> >>>
> >> > > >>> >>>
> >> > > >>> >>> Beelzibub
> >> > > >>> >>>
> >> > > >>> >>> The human in us owes fealty to humanity. But the wolf in us
> >> > acknowledges no master.
> >> > > >>> >>
> >> > > >>> >>Hey bub, I like eveining workouts... but I have no choice but
to
> >do
> >> > it
> >> > > >>> >>in the morning.
> >> > > >>> >
> >> > > >>> >Chuckle ... calling Elzi "bub." That's just funny somehow.
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>You hear that a lot if you hang out with short, hairy Canadians
with
> >> > unusual
> >> > > >>healing abilities and long nails.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >Only if he's Australian, and not a dingo.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >Gotta be something in that Aussie DNA considering Hugh Jackman
> >> > >
> >> > > Oh yeah, that hairy Canadian. Is he short?
> >> >
> >> > Hugh Jackman is around 6' tall and Australian.
> >> >
> >> > Traditionally Wolverine is around 5'2", 250lbs, under 10%bf and
> >Canadian.
> >> > hth
> >>
> >> So I was closer with DeVido?
> >>
> >> - bc
> >
> >Hairier than DeVito, ripped and with a way worse temper. Other than that
> >pretty close. Ironically Jackman played Wolverine (and did a great job)
in
> >both movies. Devito is closer to Mini-Me than Wolverine.
> >
>
> I'm thinking Celebrity Deathmatch.
>
Well called.
I'd pay to watch.
--
Mick R.

Until you get pretty good at it, deadlifting is 90% half mental. - Wayne S.
Hill
Real money even.
> - bc

Lucas Buck
August 15th 04, 07:04 AM
On Sat, 07 Aug 2004 12:08:14 -0500, elzinator > wrote:

>On Sat, 07 Aug 2004 16:22:02 GMT, The Queen of Cans and Jars wrote:
>>elzinator > wrote:
>
>>> Dude, is that a Canon Rebel?? Huh, huh???
>>
>>EOS 10D, actually - the model right above the rebel. i'm not sure what
>>the difference is; i suspect that the rebel has a plastic body. i
>>bought mine before they came out with the rebel. it's an awe-inspiring
>>piece of equipment.
>
>Yup, same pixel but has more features, especially simultaneous RAW and
>JPEG formats. If I recall, also has more fps (up to 9 consecutive
>frames), slightly more than the Rebel. Which is better for
>action/sport shots. Rebel is lighter then the EOS 10D magnesium alloy
>body, and, in all, cheaper moreso because base price for Rebel
>includes a lens, whereas no lenses are included in base price for EOS
>10D. I also like the elevated flash on the Rebel. Why they didn't
>incorporate that on the EOS models is odd.
>
>My choice will depend on
>a) compatibility of the lenses on my current SLR Canon (it's in
>Austin; need to retrieve it next visit), and
>b) income windfall.
>
>A recent model had me drooling last time I visited the camera
>shop......

How old was he?

Seth Breidbart
August 27th 04, 06:50 PM
In article >,
Art S > wrote:

I guess it's time for me to jump in here :-)


>So, if I'm following, in case A the carbs are used directly for energy
>during the exercise, with no net change. In case B, if you eat shortly
>after exercising, the carbs are used to replace the blood glucose and
>muscle/liver glycogen levels for no net change. In case B, if you eat
>much later after exercising, fat reserves will be used to replenish blood
>glucose and muscle/liver glycogen levels and then the carbs will be
>used to replenish the fat reserves.
>
>Is that correct?
>
>If so, pragmatically speaking, what is the difference?

Storing carbs as fat, and replenishing glycogen from fat, is
relatively inefficient. Therefore, case B2 ends up with the lowest
amount of bodyfat (by a trivial amount).

Seth
--
"There is no such thing as an essential carbohydrate" -- Will Brink
Except sushi rice, seaweed, and wasabi.

Seth Breidbart
August 27th 04, 07:02 PM
In article >,
Art S > wrote:
>"elzinator" > wrote in message
...
>> On Sat, 07 Aug 2004 16:22:02 GMT, The Queen of Cans and Jars wrote:
>> >elzinator > wrote:
>>
>> >> Dude, is that a Canon Rebel?? Huh, huh???
>> >
>> >EOS 10D, actually - the model right above the rebel.

>> Yup, same pixel but has more features, especially simultaneous RAW and
>> JPEG formats. If I recall, also has more fps (up to 9 consecutive
>> frames), slightly more than the Rebel. Which is better for
>> action/sport shots.
>
>It also lets you customize a lot of options that the Rebel doesn't.

At least, not until somebody hacked the firmware for the Rebel to give
it just about all the feature of the 10D.

Seth
--
I can't tell you how irritating it is to hear a yankee say "y'all" to a single
person. I've had to kill several of them because of that. -- Watson Davis

elzinator
August 28th 04, 02:19 AM
On 27 Aug 2004 14:02:43 -0400, Seth Breidbart wrote:
>In article >,
>Art S > wrote:
>>"elzinator" > wrote in message
...
>>> On Sat, 07 Aug 2004 16:22:02 GMT, The Queen of Cans and Jars wrote:
>>> >elzinator > wrote:
>>>
>>> >> Dude, is that a Canon Rebel?? Huh, huh???
>>> >
>>> >EOS 10D, actually - the model right above the rebel.
>
>>> Yup, same pixel but has more features, especially simultaneous RAW and
>>> JPEG formats. If I recall, also has more fps (up to 9 consecutive
>>> frames), slightly more than the Rebel. Which is better for
>>> action/sport shots.
>>
>>It also lets you customize a lot of options that the Rebel doesn't.
>
>At least, not until somebody hacked the firmware for the Rebel to give
>it just about all the feature of the 10D.

Really?
There are hardware differences, too. The Rebel has mirror, whereas the
10D has prism. Better precision and less 'fudge' factor (after having
mirrors adjusted in 3 SLRs in my lifetime).

I'm still inclined to go with the 10D.

Comments Art? Seth?

"A foolish consistancy is the hobgoblin of little minds."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson

Art S
August 28th 04, 05:17 AM
"elzinator" > wrote in message
...
> On 27 Aug 2004 14:02:43 -0400, Seth Breidbart wrote:
> >In article >,
> >Art S > wrote:
> >>"elzinator" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>> On Sat, 07 Aug 2004 16:22:02 GMT, The Queen of Cans and Jars wrote:
> >>> >elzinator > wrote:
> >>>
> >>> >> Dude, is that a Canon Rebel?? Huh, huh???
> >>> >
> >>> >EOS 10D, actually - the model right above the rebel.
> >
> >>> Yup, same pixel but has more features, especially simultaneous RAW and
> >>> JPEG formats. If I recall, also has more fps (up to 9 consecutive
> >>> frames), slightly more than the Rebel. Which is better for
> >>> action/sport shots.
> >>
> >>It also lets you customize a lot of options that the Rebel doesn't.
> >
> >At least, not until somebody hacked the firmware for the Rebel to give
> >it just about all the feature of the 10D.
>
> Really?
> There are hardware differences, too. The Rebel has mirror, whereas the
> 10D has prism. Better precision and less 'fudge' factor (after having
> mirrors adjusted in 3 SLRs in my lifetime).
>
> I'm still inclined to go with the 10D.
>

Considering that the 10D has a mirror lockup option, I suspect
that it has a mirror ;)

> Comments Art? Seth?
>

I got a 10D because I wanted some options that it had and
the Rebel doesn't. I discovered that it doesn't focus one lens
sharply, but haven't followed up on that yet.

Compare the two and decide if you really need the additional
capability of the 10D. If you have a lens you want to use with
it, test both cameras and make sure that the both cameras are
compatible.

Art

Art S
August 28th 04, 05:19 AM
"Seth Breidbart" > wrote in message ...
> In article >,
> Art S > wrote:
>
> I guess it's time for me to jump in here :-)
>
>
> >So, if I'm following, in case A the carbs are used directly for energy
> >during the exercise, with no net change. In case B, if you eat shortly
> >after exercising, the carbs are used to replace the blood glucose and
> >muscle/liver glycogen levels for no net change. In case B, if you eat
> >much later after exercising, fat reserves will be used to replenish blood
> >glucose and muscle/liver glycogen levels and then the carbs will be
> >used to replenish the fat reserves.
> >
> >Is that correct?
> >
> >If so, pragmatically speaking, what is the difference?
>
> Storing carbs as fat, and replenishing glycogen from fat, is
> relatively inefficient. Therefore, case B2 ends up with the lowest
> amount of bodyfat (by a trivial amount).
>
> Seth

That is roughly the answer I was hoping to get from the original
poster. Never quite did, but he seems to have left.

Art

elzinator
August 28th 04, 05:51 AM
On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 04:17:42 GMT, Art S wrote:
>
>"elzinator" > wrote in message
...
>> On 27 Aug 2004 14:02:43 -0400, Seth Breidbart wrote:
>> >In article >,
>> >Art S > wrote:
>> >>"elzinator" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >>> On Sat, 07 Aug 2004 16:22:02 GMT, The Queen of Cans and Jars wrote:
>> >>> >elzinator > wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> >> Dude, is that a Canon Rebel?? Huh, huh???
>> >>> >
>> >>> >EOS 10D, actually - the model right above the rebel.
>> >
>> >>> Yup, same pixel but has more features, especially simultaneous RAW and
>> >>> JPEG formats. If I recall, also has more fps (up to 9 consecutive
>> >>> frames), slightly more than the Rebel. Which is better for
>> >>> action/sport shots.
>> >>
>> >>It also lets you customize a lot of options that the Rebel doesn't.
>> >
>> >At least, not until somebody hacked the firmware for the Rebel to give
>> >it just about all the feature of the 10D.
>>
>> Really?
>> There are hardware differences, too. The Rebel has mirror, whereas the
>> 10D has prism. Better precision and less 'fudge' factor (after having
>> mirrors adjusted in 3 SLRs in my lifetime).
>>
>> I'm still inclined to go with the 10D.
>>
>
>Considering that the 10D has a mirror lockup option, I suspect
>that it has a mirror ;)

Interesting. I was told that the 10D had a prism, not a mirror.

>> Comments Art? Seth?
>>
>
>I got a 10D because I wanted some options that it had and
>the Rebel doesn't. I discovered that it doesn't focus one lens
>sharply, but haven't followed up on that yet.
>
>Compare the two and decide if you really need the additional
>capability of the 10D. If you have a lens you want to use with
>it, test both cameras and make sure that the both cameras are
>compatible.

Agreed. Thanks.


"A foolish consistancy is the hobgoblin of little minds."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson

Hugh Beyer
August 28th 04, 04:19 PM
"Art S" > wrote in
:

> "Seth Breidbart" > wrote in message
> ...
>> In article
>> >, Art S
>> > wrote:
>>
>> I guess it's time for me to jump in here :-)
>>
>>
>> >So, if I'm following, in case A the carbs are used directly for energy
>> >during the exercise, with no net change. In case B, if you eat
>> >shortly after exercising, the carbs are used to replace the blood
>> >glucose and muscle/liver glycogen levels for no net change. In case
>> >B, if you eat much later after exercising, fat reserves will be used
>> >to replenish blood glucose and muscle/liver glycogen levels and then
>> >the carbs will be used to replenish the fat reserves.
>> >
>> >Is that correct?
>> >
>> >If so, pragmatically speaking, what is the difference?
>>
>> Storing carbs as fat, and replenishing glycogen from fat, is
>> relatively inefficient. Therefore, case B2 ends up with the lowest
>> amount of bodyfat (by a trivial amount).
>>
>> Seth
>
> That is roughly the answer I was hoping to get from the original
> poster. Never quite did, but he seems to have left.
>

Wait a minute, I think this is wrong.

Case B2 you're not eating right after exercising, leaving your body in a
catabolic state, which means you're losing muscle.

Case B1 you are eating right after muscle, and if you eat high GI carbs +
protein, you've got lots of aminos floating around to rebuild muscle with.

So B1 ends up with more muscle than B2. This according to studies Lyle has
posted showing that eating right after exercising matters.

Hugh


--
One puppy was severely mangled in the creation of this post.

Art S
August 28th 04, 05:27 PM
"Hugh Beyer" > wrote in message
...
> "Art S" > wrote in
> :
>
> > "Seth Breidbart" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> In article
> >> >, Art S
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> I guess it's time for me to jump in here :-)
> >>
> >>
> >> >So, if I'm following, in case A the carbs are used directly for energy
> >> >during the exercise, with no net change. In case B, if you eat
> >> >shortly after exercising, the carbs are used to replace the blood
> >> >glucose and muscle/liver glycogen levels for no net change. In case
> >> >B, if you eat much later after exercising, fat reserves will be used
> >> >to replenish blood glucose and muscle/liver glycogen levels and then
> >> >the carbs will be used to replenish the fat reserves.
> >> >
> >> >Is that correct?
> >> >
> >> >If so, pragmatically speaking, what is the difference?
> >>
> >> Storing carbs as fat, and replenishing glycogen from fat, is
> >> relatively inefficient. Therefore, case B2 ends up with the lowest
> >> amount of bodyfat (by a trivial amount).
> >>
> >> Seth
> >
> > That is roughly the answer I was hoping to get from the original
> > poster. Never quite did, but he seems to have left.
> >
>
> Wait a minute, I think this is wrong.
>
> Case B2 you're not eating right after exercising, leaving your body in a
> catabolic state, which means you're losing muscle.
>
> Case B1 you are eating right after muscle, and if you eat high GI carbs +
> protein, you've got lots of aminos floating around to rebuild muscle with.
>
> So B1 ends up with more muscle than B2. This according to studies Lyle has
> posted showing that eating right after exercising matters.
>
> Hugh

The key point that I was trying for was that if you are eating properly and
the difference is when you eat, the resulting difference is trivial (and not
important to the general public). Which is the opposite of what 223rem
was saying.

Art

elzinator
August 28th 04, 07:00 PM
On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 15:19:57 GMT, Hugh Beyer wrote:
>"Art S" > wrote in
:
>
>> "Seth Breidbart" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> In article
>>> >, Art S
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>> I guess it's time for me to jump in here :-)
>>>
>>>
>>> >So, if I'm following, in case A the carbs are used directly for energy
>>> >during the exercise, with no net change. In case B, if you eat
>>> >shortly after exercising, the carbs are used to replace the blood
>>> >glucose and muscle/liver glycogen levels for no net change. In case
>>> >B, if you eat much later after exercising, fat reserves will be used
>>> >to replenish blood glucose and muscle/liver glycogen levels and then
>>> >the carbs will be used to replenish the fat reserves.
>>> >
>>> >Is that correct?
>>> >
>>> >If so, pragmatically speaking, what is the difference?
>>>
>>> Storing carbs as fat, and replenishing glycogen from fat, is
>>> relatively inefficient. Therefore, case B2 ends up with the lowest
>>> amount of bodyfat (by a trivial amount).
>>>
>>> Seth
>>
>> That is roughly the answer I was hoping to get from the original
>> poster. Never quite did, but he seems to have left.
>>
>
>Wait a minute, I think this is wrong.
>
>Case B2 you're not eating right after exercising, leaving your body in a
>catabolic state, which means you're losing muscle.
>
>Case B1 you are eating right after muscle, and if you eat high GI carbs +
>protein, you've got lots of aminos floating around to rebuild muscle with.
>
>So B1 ends up with more muscle than B2. This according to studies Lyle has
>posted showing that eating right after exercising matters.

That's rather simplistic. You are neglecting so many other variables.
To state that eating right after exercise or not results in more
muscle, or less, is like stating that there are only two colors: black
and white.

The degree to which eating immediately post-exercise impacts long-term
muscle growth and mass depends on many factors, such as exercise
intensity and duration, overall nutritional state of the exerciser,
age, type of exercise, stress, etc.

Your first paragraph above (referring to Case B2) is
misrepresentative. Not eating immediately post-exercise does not
necessarily result in muscle loss. Similarly, eating immediately
post-exercise will not necessarily result in muscle gain (thus your
last paragraph is also inaccurate).

There are so many other factors involved in the process of muscle loss
and growth. Nutrient intake around exercise is only one factor amongst
many. Consequently if other contributing factors are not optimal, you
can eat all you want and never see any increases in muscle mass.
Equally, you can post-pone eating for several hours post-exercise and
still make muscle mass gains (it just may not be optimal). (consider
the Laws of Limiting Factors*)

Nutrient intake immediately post-exercise is most efficient for
glycogen compensation in muscle tissue. However, eating several hours
later will still restore glycogen, just not as efficiently. In fact,
carb and protein intake before and during both endurance and
resistance exercise reduces the degree of muscle degradation, but only
during high intensity and long-duration exercise. Additionally, a
recent study demonstrated none to insignificant mass gains in subjects
on a resistance training protocol over a period of 12 weeks and
supplemented with a protein/carb recovery drink. (I do question the
merits of the study, it was poorly done).

The interaction of factors is that muscle growth and degradation is
controlled neither by one factor alone nor by one or a set of two
factors present in relative minimum under all circumstances. Any
relationship that is traced between the external factors alone,
without taking into consideration the internal changes that take place
in the process as well as the intensities in which the external
factors reach the internal tissues, will not hold good under all
circumstances.

To summarize, the *rate* of muscle growth may be limited by the factor
that is in shortest supply, but ultimately depends on the external
stimuli (examples related above) and the internal state of the
organism and tissue. In other words, increasing the factor in shortest
supply (such as carbs) may increase the rate of growth, until another
factor becomes limiting (such as amino acids). If we supply the
organism with all of the optimum external conditions it needs
(nutrition, exercise, etc), the rate of muscle growth will be limited
by factors within the muscle (fiber type, age, neural, etc).

So be careful in myopic extrapolations.

* Liebig's Law of the Minimum, or Limiting Factors: "At any given
instant, any metabolic process is limited by only one factor at a
time" i.e. the nutrient in shortest supply relative to demand.

Blackman's Law of Limiting Factors: When a process is conditioned as
to its rapidity by a number of separate factors the rate of the
process is limited by the pace of the slowest factor."

Harders Law of Relative Minimum: Growth is limited by one or a set of
two factors present in relative minimum.

Taylor's broad restatement of the Law of the Minimum: "The functioning
of an organism is controlled or limited by that essential
environmental factor or combination of factors present in the least
favorable amount. "

Ciao
"A foolish consistancy is the hobgoblin of little minds."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson

elzinator
August 28th 04, 07:05 PM
On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 16:27:32 GMT, Art S wrote:
>
>"Hugh Beyer" > wrote in message
...
>> "Art S" > wrote in
>> :
>>
>> > "Seth Breidbart" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >> In article
>> >> >, Art S
>> >> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I guess it's time for me to jump in here :-)
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >So, if I'm following, in case A the carbs are used directly for energy
>> >> >during the exercise, with no net change. In case B, if you eat
>> >> >shortly after exercising, the carbs are used to replace the blood
>> >> >glucose and muscle/liver glycogen levels for no net change. In case
>> >> >B, if you eat much later after exercising, fat reserves will be used
>> >> >to replenish blood glucose and muscle/liver glycogen levels and then
>> >> >the carbs will be used to replenish the fat reserves.
>> >> >
>> >> >Is that correct?
>> >> >
>> >> >If so, pragmatically speaking, what is the difference?
>> >>
>> >> Storing carbs as fat, and replenishing glycogen from fat, is
>> >> relatively inefficient. Therefore, case B2 ends up with the lowest
>> >> amount of bodyfat (by a trivial amount).
>> >>
>> >> Seth
>> >
>> > That is roughly the answer I was hoping to get from the original
>> > poster. Never quite did, but he seems to have left.
>> >
>>
>> Wait a minute, I think this is wrong.
>>
>> Case B2 you're not eating right after exercising, leaving your body in a
>> catabolic state, which means you're losing muscle.
>>
>> Case B1 you are eating right after muscle, and if you eat high GI carbs +
>> protein, you've got lots of aminos floating around to rebuild muscle with.
>>
>> So B1 ends up with more muscle than B2. This according to studies Lyle has
>> posted showing that eating right after exercising matters.
>>
>> Hugh
>
>The key point that I was trying for was that if you are eating properly and
>the difference is when you eat, the resulting difference is trivial (and not
>important to the general public).

Exactly. Tipton emphasized this during dinner last year: in the case
of the general public exercising Joe or Jane who has an adequate daily
caloric intake, eating around exercise is a relative non-issue. It can
become an issue for athletes with a high caloric expenditure from
exercise, and for those who exercise first thing in the morning, when
they may be in a pre-existing catabolic state (overnight fast). And
the studies I've read support this.


"A foolish consistancy is the hobgoblin of little minds."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson

Hugh Beyer
August 28th 04, 11:17 PM
"Art S" > wrote in
:

> "Hugh Beyer" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Art S" > wrote in
>> :
>>
>> > "Seth Breidbart" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >> In article
>> >> >, Art S
>> >> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I guess it's time for me to jump in here :-)
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >So, if I'm following, in case A the carbs are used directly for
>> >> >energy during the exercise, with no net change. In case B, if you
>> >> >eat shortly after exercising, the carbs are used to replace the
>> >> >blood glucose and muscle/liver glycogen levels for no net change.
>> >> >In case B, if you eat much later after exercising, fat reserves
>> >> >will be used to replenish blood glucose and muscle/liver glycogen
>> >> >levels and then the carbs will be used to replenish the fat
>> >> >reserves.
>> >> >
>> >> >Is that correct?
>> >> >
>> >> >If so, pragmatically speaking, what is the difference?
>> >>
>> >> Storing carbs as fat, and replenishing glycogen from fat, is
>> >> relatively inefficient. Therefore, case B2 ends up with the lowest
>> >> amount of bodyfat (by a trivial amount).
>> >>
>> >> Seth
>> >
>> > That is roughly the answer I was hoping to get from the original
>> > poster. Never quite did, but he seems to have left.
>> >
>>
>> Wait a minute, I think this is wrong.
>>
>> Case B2 you're not eating right after exercising, leaving your body in
>> a catabolic state, which means you're losing muscle.
>>
>> Case B1 you are eating right after muscle, and if you eat high GI carbs
>> + protein, you've got lots of aminos floating around to rebuild muscle
>> with.
>>
>> So B1 ends up with more muscle than B2. This according to studies Lyle
>> has posted showing that eating right after exercising matters.
>>
>> Hugh
>
> The key point that I was trying for was that if you are eating properly
> and the difference is when you eat, the resulting difference is trivial
> (and not important to the general public). Which is the opposite of
> what 223rem was saying.
>
> Art
>
>

And my point was that there are other factors to consider than the
efficiency of direct glycogen loading vs. going through fat stores, and
that these other factors are probably more important. But I see the
Elzinator's making that point in other posts.

Hugh


--
One puppy was severely mangled in the creation of this post.

Mick R.
August 28th 04, 11:51 PM
"Hugh Beyer" > wrote in message
...
> "Art S" > wrote in
> :
>
> > "Seth Breidbart" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> In article
> >> >, Art S
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> I guess it's time for me to jump in here :-)
> >>
> >>
> >> >So, if I'm following, in case A the carbs are used directly for energy
> >> >during the exercise, with no net change. In case B, if you eat
> >> >shortly after exercising, the carbs are used to replace the blood
> >> >glucose and muscle/liver glycogen levels for no net change. In case
> >> >B, if you eat much later after exercising, fat reserves will be used
> >> >to replenish blood glucose and muscle/liver glycogen levels and then
> >> >the carbs will be used to replenish the fat reserves.
> >> >
> >> >Is that correct?
> >> >
> >> >If so, pragmatically speaking, what is the difference?
> >>
> >> Storing carbs as fat, and replenishing glycogen from fat, is
> >> relatively inefficient. Therefore, case B2 ends up with the lowest
> >> amount of bodyfat (by a trivial amount).
> >>
> >> Seth
> >
> > That is roughly the answer I was hoping to get from the original
> > poster. Never quite did, but he seems to have left.
> >
>
> Wait a minute, I think this is wrong.
>
> Case B2 you're not eating right after exercising, leaving your body in a
> catabolic state, which means you're losing muscle.
>
> Case B1 you are eating right after muscle, and if you eat high GI carbs +
> protein, you've got lots of aminos floating around to rebuild muscle with.
>
> So B1 ends up with more muscle than B2. This according to studies Lyle has
> posted showing that eating right after exercising matters.
>
> Hugh
>

Trust those bananas to be out doing stuff like this in their off-hours. I
just knew B1 was the buff one!

>
> --
> One puppy was severely mangled in the creation of this post.
>