PDA

View Full Version : How Good Are Street-Fighters?


slotman1958
July 16th 03, 07:34 PM
I've had several martial arts instructors who worked from the
> assumption that if you get in a street fight, it will be with someone
> who has no training. For example, they might say, "On the street,
> nobody ever throws a close, tight left hook. It will be a wide,
> looping punch that's easy to get inside."

In a real street fight, all things being equal, the winner is going to
be the guy who can hit first, hardest, and not be afraid of getting
hit himself.

What all of these "martial arts" classes, books, etc. fail to mention
is this: if you have never been in a fight, you don't know how to
fight. Period. How good a fighter you are is directly in proportion to
how many fights you have been in. I don't care if you made it to 18th
degree black belt, if your program didn't include *intensive*
sparring, you don't know how to fight.

I saw a movie recently called *Knockaround Guys* where the Vin Diesel
character squares off against a guy who's supposed to be the toughest
guy in town and tells him that he figured out as a kid he needed to
have at least 500 street fights under his belt before he could
consider himself *tough*. He then proceeds to beat the crap out of the
guy in a pretty realistic (for a movie anyway) fight.

Fighting is a learned skill and the more you do it, the better at it
you get.

John M. Williams
July 17th 03, 03:20 AM
(slotman1958) wrote:

>> I've had several martial arts instructors who worked from the
>> assumption that if you get in a street fight, it will be with someone
>> who has no training. For example, they might say, "On the street,
>> nobody ever throws a close, tight left hook. It will be a wide,
>> looping punch that's easy to get inside."
>
>In a real street fight, all things being equal, the winner is going to
>be the guy who can hit first, hardest, and not be afraid of getting
>hit himself.

Part of this is true. But today, in the gritty "real world," there is
one greater factor: What are you willing to do?

Are you willing to knock someone down and keep kicking him in the head
until he stops moving, at which time he may or may not be dead? Are
you willing to hit him in the face with a beer bottle, or even a thick
beer mug? Are you willing to slam his head into concrete?

These are examples of real "street fights" in today's world ... one's
I have dealt with in my job. It's not the same as the UFC. And it's
neither pretty or sporting.

John M. Williams
July 17th 03, 03:20 AM
(slotman1958) wrote:

>> I've had several martial arts instructors who worked from the
>> assumption that if you get in a street fight, it will be with someone
>> who has no training. For example, they might say, "On the street,
>> nobody ever throws a close, tight left hook. It will be a wide,
>> looping punch that's easy to get inside."
>
>In a real street fight, all things being equal, the winner is going to
>be the guy who can hit first, hardest, and not be afraid of getting
>hit himself.

Part of this is true. But today, in the gritty "real world," there is
one greater factor: What are you willing to do?

Are you willing to knock someone down and keep kicking him in the head
until he stops moving, at which time he may or may not be dead? Are
you willing to hit him in the face with a beer bottle, or even a thick
beer mug? Are you willing to slam his head into concrete?

These are examples of real "street fights" in today's world ... one's
I have dealt with in my job. It's not the same as the UFC. And it's
neither pretty or sporting.

sean
July 17th 03, 03:47 AM
(slotman1958) wrote in message
>
> In a real street fight, all things being equal, the winner is going to
> be the guy who can hit first, hardest, and not be afraid of getting
> hit himself.
>
> What all of these "martial arts" classes, books, etc. fail to mention
> is this: if you have never been in a fight, you don't know how to
> fight. Period. How good a fighter you are is directly in proportion to
> how many fights you have been in. I don't care if you made it to 18th
> degree black belt, if your program didn't include *intensive*
> sparring, you don't know how to fight.
>
> I saw a movie recently called *Knockaround Guys* where the Vin Diesel
> character squares off against a guy who's supposed to be the toughest
> guy in town and tells him that he figured out as a kid he needed to
> have at least 500 street fights under his belt before he could
> consider himself *tough*. He then proceeds to beat the crap out of the
> guy in a pretty realistic (for a movie anyway) fight.
>
> Fighting is a learned skill and the more you do it, the better at it
> you get.

I would just like to comment that this is about the single best
response I've seen to the whole street fight vs classic artial arts
war I've seen.

Your first paragraph is exactly, I mean word for word, what a very
close friend of mine(who, is practically like the guy from the movie
and stopped counting how many scraps he had been in around 50 or so).

The ability to take a punch and know that it really is more of a
mental shock than a physicaly disabling, in his opinion, is what wins
fights.

sean
July 17th 03, 03:47 AM
(slotman1958) wrote in message
>
> In a real street fight, all things being equal, the winner is going to
> be the guy who can hit first, hardest, and not be afraid of getting
> hit himself.
>
> What all of these "martial arts" classes, books, etc. fail to mention
> is this: if you have never been in a fight, you don't know how to
> fight. Period. How good a fighter you are is directly in proportion to
> how many fights you have been in. I don't care if you made it to 18th
> degree black belt, if your program didn't include *intensive*
> sparring, you don't know how to fight.
>
> I saw a movie recently called *Knockaround Guys* where the Vin Diesel
> character squares off against a guy who's supposed to be the toughest
> guy in town and tells him that he figured out as a kid he needed to
> have at least 500 street fights under his belt before he could
> consider himself *tough*. He then proceeds to beat the crap out of the
> guy in a pretty realistic (for a movie anyway) fight.
>
> Fighting is a learned skill and the more you do it, the better at it
> you get.

I would just like to comment that this is about the single best
response I've seen to the whole street fight vs classic artial arts
war I've seen.

Your first paragraph is exactly, I mean word for word, what a very
close friend of mine(who, is practically like the guy from the movie
and stopped counting how many scraps he had been in around 50 or so).

The ability to take a punch and know that it really is more of a
mental shock than a physicaly disabling, in his opinion, is what wins
fights.

Mistress Krista
July 17th 03, 04:24 AM
"sean" > wrote in message
om...
> Your first paragraph is exactly, I mean word for word, what a very
> close friend of mine(who, is practically like the guy from the movie
> and stopped counting how many scraps he had been in around 50 or so).
>


If you've been in around 50 street fights, isn't this a sign that you should
perhaps start working on your social skills or something?


Krista

--
--------------------
www.stumptuous.com/weights.html
www.trans-health.com

Mistress Krista
July 17th 03, 04:24 AM
"sean" > wrote in message
om...
> Your first paragraph is exactly, I mean word for word, what a very
> close friend of mine(who, is practically like the guy from the movie
> and stopped counting how many scraps he had been in around 50 or so).
>


If you've been in around 50 street fights, isn't this a sign that you should
perhaps start working on your social skills or something?


Krista

--
--------------------
www.stumptuous.com/weights.html
www.trans-health.com

Lee Michaels
July 17th 03, 04:40 AM
"Mistress Krista" *rem0vethis*> wrote in
message ble.rogers.com...
>
> "sean" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Your first paragraph is exactly, I mean word for word, what a very
> > close friend of mine(who, is practically like the guy from the movie
> > and stopped counting how many scraps he had been in around 50 or so).
> >
>
>
> If you've been in around 50 street fights, isn't this a sign that you
should
> perhaps start working on your social skills or something?
>

LOL

Social skills?? Whazzat?

I am certain in some environments those 50 fights count as "social skills".

Another potential difficulty is finding the right person to teach him those
social skills.

Lee Michaels
July 17th 03, 04:40 AM
"Mistress Krista" *rem0vethis*> wrote in
message ble.rogers.com...
>
> "sean" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Your first paragraph is exactly, I mean word for word, what a very
> > close friend of mine(who, is practically like the guy from the movie
> > and stopped counting how many scraps he had been in around 50 or so).
> >
>
>
> If you've been in around 50 street fights, isn't this a sign that you
should
> perhaps start working on your social skills or something?
>

LOL

Social skills?? Whazzat?

I am certain in some environments those 50 fights count as "social skills".

Another potential difficulty is finding the right person to teach him those
social skills.

David Winters
July 17th 03, 05:12 AM
"Mistress Krista" *rem0vethis*> writes:

> "sean" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Your first paragraph is exactly, I mean word for word, what a very
> > close friend of mine(who, is practically like the guy from the movie
> > and stopped counting how many scraps he had been in around 50 or so).
> >
>
>
> If you've been in around 50 street fights, isn't this a sign that you should
> perhaps start working on your social skills or something?

Probably, but who's going to risk it to suggest to someone like that?


D.

David Winters
July 17th 03, 05:12 AM
"Mistress Krista" *rem0vethis*> writes:

> "sean" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Your first paragraph is exactly, I mean word for word, what a very
> > close friend of mine(who, is practically like the guy from the movie
> > and stopped counting how many scraps he had been in around 50 or so).
> >
>
>
> If you've been in around 50 street fights, isn't this a sign that you should
> perhaps start working on your social skills or something?

Probably, but who's going to risk it to suggest to someone like that?


D.

Robert Dorf
July 17th 03, 05:28 AM
On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 02:40:12 GMT, "Lee Michaels"
> wrote:

>
>"Mistress Krista" *rem0vethis*> wrote in
>message ble.rogers.com...
>>
>> "sean" > wrote in message
>> om...
>> > Your first paragraph is exactly, I mean word for word, what a very
>> > close friend of mine(who, is practically like the guy from the movie
>> > and stopped counting how many scraps he had been in around 50 or so).
>> >
>>
>>
>> If you've been in around 50 street fights, isn't this a sign that you
>should
>> perhaps start working on your social skills or something?
>>
>
>LOL
>
>Social skills?? Whazzat?
>
>I am certain in some environments those 50 fights count as "social skills".
>
>Another potential difficulty is finding the right person to teach him those
>social skills.
>
I just can't see how the heck you get through 50 "street fights" in
America without getting shot, arrested or both. Unless by "street
fights" you mean "punching young drunks then running away."

Robert Dorf
July 17th 03, 05:28 AM
On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 02:40:12 GMT, "Lee Michaels"
> wrote:

>
>"Mistress Krista" *rem0vethis*> wrote in
>message ble.rogers.com...
>>
>> "sean" > wrote in message
>> om...
>> > Your first paragraph is exactly, I mean word for word, what a very
>> > close friend of mine(who, is practically like the guy from the movie
>> > and stopped counting how many scraps he had been in around 50 or so).
>> >
>>
>>
>> If you've been in around 50 street fights, isn't this a sign that you
>should
>> perhaps start working on your social skills or something?
>>
>
>LOL
>
>Social skills?? Whazzat?
>
>I am certain in some environments those 50 fights count as "social skills".
>
>Another potential difficulty is finding the right person to teach him those
>social skills.
>
I just can't see how the heck you get through 50 "street fights" in
America without getting shot, arrested or both. Unless by "street
fights" you mean "punching young drunks then running away."

John M. Williams
July 17th 03, 05:51 AM
"Lee Michaels" > wrote:

>
>"Mistress Krista" *rem0vethis*> wrote in
>message ble.rogers.com...
>>
>> "sean" > wrote in message
>> om...
>> > Your first paragraph is exactly, I mean word for word, what a very
>> > close friend of mine(who, is practically like the guy from the movie
>> > and stopped counting how many scraps he had been in around 50 or so).
>> >
>>
>>
>> If you've been in around 50 street fights, isn't this a sign that you
>> should perhaps start working on your social skills or something?
>>
>
>LOL
>
>Social skills?? Whazzat?
>
>I am certain in some environments those 50 fights count as "social skills".
>
>Another potential difficulty is finding the right person to teach him those
>social skills.

<sigh> Where's John Carlo when you really need him?

John M. Williams
July 17th 03, 05:51 AM
"Lee Michaels" > wrote:

>
>"Mistress Krista" *rem0vethis*> wrote in
>message ble.rogers.com...
>>
>> "sean" > wrote in message
>> om...
>> > Your first paragraph is exactly, I mean word for word, what a very
>> > close friend of mine(who, is practically like the guy from the movie
>> > and stopped counting how many scraps he had been in around 50 or so).
>> >
>>
>>
>> If you've been in around 50 street fights, isn't this a sign that you
>> should perhaps start working on your social skills or something?
>>
>
>LOL
>
>Social skills?? Whazzat?
>
>I am certain in some environments those 50 fights count as "social skills".
>
>Another potential difficulty is finding the right person to teach him those
>social skills.

<sigh> Where's John Carlo when you really need him?

dudara
July 17th 03, 11:53 AM
(sean) wrote in message >...
> (slotman1958) wrote in message
> >
> > In a real street fight, all things being equal, the winner is going to
> > be the guy who can hit first, hardest, and not be afraid of getting
> > hit himself.
> >
> > What all of these "martial arts" classes, books, etc. fail to mention
> > is this: if you have never been in a fight, you don't know how to
> > fight. Period. How good a fighter you are is directly in proportion to
> > how many fights you have been in. I don't care if you made it to 18th
> > degree black belt, if your program didn't include *intensive*
> > sparring, you don't know how to fight.
> >
> > I saw a movie recently called *Knockaround Guys* where the Vin Diesel
> > character squares off against a guy who's supposed to be the toughest
> > guy in town and tells him that he figured out as a kid he needed to
> > have at least 500 street fights under his belt before he could
> > consider himself *tough*. He then proceeds to beat the crap out of the
> > guy in a pretty realistic (for a movie anyway) fight.
> >
> > Fighting is a learned skill and the more you do it, the better at it
> > you get.
>
> I would just like to comment that this is about the single best
> response I've seen to the whole street fight vs classic artial arts
> war I've seen.
>
> Your first paragraph is exactly, I mean word for word, what a very
> close friend of mine(who, is practically like the guy from the movie
> and stopped counting how many scraps he had been in around 50 or so).
>
> The ability to take a punch and know that it really is more of a
> mental shock than a physicaly disabling, in his opinion, is what wins
> fights.

I've been in a few TaeKwon Do tournament sparring bouts where I've
taken some heavy punches, even though our style is supposed to be
semi-contact. Some people are jsut heavy hitters. After getting hit in
the nose (I've a bad habit of dropping my guard before certain kicks,
but I'm learning) back in February, I still have some sinus trouble.

The thing is, once you've been hit hard enough to see stars, you're
not that afraid of it any more. You want to avoid it happening again
of course, and you definitely don't want it happening after a few
drinks in the street.

Unless your martial art includes serious sparring practice, you're
learning sweet fa. Fact is, most fights are dirty, and your fighting
style will not be pretty, it will be effective. But I have no fear,
that if I had to, I could fight to protect myself. One good strike,
and then you wouldn't see me for dust as I ran away. Best defensive
skill there is.

dudara
July 17th 03, 11:53 AM
(sean) wrote in message >...
> (slotman1958) wrote in message
> >
> > In a real street fight, all things being equal, the winner is going to
> > be the guy who can hit first, hardest, and not be afraid of getting
> > hit himself.
> >
> > What all of these "martial arts" classes, books, etc. fail to mention
> > is this: if you have never been in a fight, you don't know how to
> > fight. Period. How good a fighter you are is directly in proportion to
> > how many fights you have been in. I don't care if you made it to 18th
> > degree black belt, if your program didn't include *intensive*
> > sparring, you don't know how to fight.
> >
> > I saw a movie recently called *Knockaround Guys* where the Vin Diesel
> > character squares off against a guy who's supposed to be the toughest
> > guy in town and tells him that he figured out as a kid he needed to
> > have at least 500 street fights under his belt before he could
> > consider himself *tough*. He then proceeds to beat the crap out of the
> > guy in a pretty realistic (for a movie anyway) fight.
> >
> > Fighting is a learned skill and the more you do it, the better at it
> > you get.
>
> I would just like to comment that this is about the single best
> response I've seen to the whole street fight vs classic artial arts
> war I've seen.
>
> Your first paragraph is exactly, I mean word for word, what a very
> close friend of mine(who, is practically like the guy from the movie
> and stopped counting how many scraps he had been in around 50 or so).
>
> The ability to take a punch and know that it really is more of a
> mental shock than a physicaly disabling, in his opinion, is what wins
> fights.

I've been in a few TaeKwon Do tournament sparring bouts where I've
taken some heavy punches, even though our style is supposed to be
semi-contact. Some people are jsut heavy hitters. After getting hit in
the nose (I've a bad habit of dropping my guard before certain kicks,
but I'm learning) back in February, I still have some sinus trouble.

The thing is, once you've been hit hard enough to see stars, you're
not that afraid of it any more. You want to avoid it happening again
of course, and you definitely don't want it happening after a few
drinks in the street.

Unless your martial art includes serious sparring practice, you're
learning sweet fa. Fact is, most fights are dirty, and your fighting
style will not be pretty, it will be effective. But I have no fear,
that if I had to, I could fight to protect myself. One good strike,
and then you wouldn't see me for dust as I ran away. Best defensive
skill there is.

PatrickFalcon31
July 17th 03, 01:25 PM
>>Another potential difficulty is finding the right person to teach him those
>>social skills.
>
><sigh> Where's John Carlo when you really need him?
>

There are days when I miss him. Next to Robert Dorf and Viki Selca, he was
perhaps the funniest person mfw has ever seen.

Patrick Falcon

PatrickFalcon31
July 17th 03, 01:25 PM
>>Another potential difficulty is finding the right person to teach him those
>>social skills.
>
><sigh> Where's John Carlo when you really need him?
>

There are days when I miss him. Next to Robert Dorf and Viki Selca, he was
perhaps the funniest person mfw has ever seen.

Patrick Falcon

Richard Bray
July 17th 03, 03:49 PM
On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 23:25:18 -0400, Robert Dorf >
wrote:

>On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 02:24:06 GMT, "Mistress Krista"
*rem0vethis*> wrote:
>
>>
>>"sean" > wrote in message
om...
>>> Your first paragraph is exactly, I mean word for word, what a very
>>> close friend of mine(who, is practically like the guy from the movie
>>> and stopped counting how many scraps he had been in around 50 or so).
>>>
>>
>>
>>If you've been in around 50 street fights, isn't this a sign that you should
>>perhaps start working on your social skills or something?
>>
>
>If you point out this sort of thing you'll interfere with the
>testosterone buzz.
>
>Now we'll all have to watch kick-boxing movies on DVD and drink cocoa
>until we feel brutish again.

I interviewed an airborne general once and asked him about unarmed
combat training. He just laughed and said they issued the soldiers
perfectly good firearms and if they ran out of ammunition they should
bayonet or club their opponents. He seemed to consider fighting with
fists most unwise.



x-- 100 Proof News - http://www.100ProofNews.com
x-- 3,500+ Binary NewsGroups, and over 90,000 other groups
x-- Access to over 800 Gigs/Day - $8.95/Month
x-- UNLIMITED DOWNLOAD

Richard Bray
July 17th 03, 03:49 PM
On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 23:25:18 -0400, Robert Dorf >
wrote:

>On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 02:24:06 GMT, "Mistress Krista"
*rem0vethis*> wrote:
>
>>
>>"sean" > wrote in message
om...
>>> Your first paragraph is exactly, I mean word for word, what a very
>>> close friend of mine(who, is practically like the guy from the movie
>>> and stopped counting how many scraps he had been in around 50 or so).
>>>
>>
>>
>>If you've been in around 50 street fights, isn't this a sign that you should
>>perhaps start working on your social skills or something?
>>
>
>If you point out this sort of thing you'll interfere with the
>testosterone buzz.
>
>Now we'll all have to watch kick-boxing movies on DVD and drink cocoa
>until we feel brutish again.

I interviewed an airborne general once and asked him about unarmed
combat training. He just laughed and said they issued the soldiers
perfectly good firearms and if they ran out of ammunition they should
bayonet or club their opponents. He seemed to consider fighting with
fists most unwise.



x-- 100 Proof News - http://www.100ProofNews.com
x-- 3,500+ Binary NewsGroups, and over 90,000 other groups
x-- Access to over 800 Gigs/Day - $8.95/Month
x-- UNLIMITED DOWNLOAD

July 17th 03, 06:47 PM
On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 02:24:06 GMT, "Mistress Krista"
*rem0vethis*> wrote:

>If you've been in around 50 street fights, isn't this a sign that you should
>perhaps start working on your social skills or something?

That's indeed a sign that his gerbil voodoo or verbal judo[1] or
whatever didn't work.

Better to just transition straight to the liquid judo, MHO. Freshen
his breath, tactically!

[1] A book on interpersonal communication by Bruce Thompson. It's a
metric assload better than the video, and almost worth the cover
price.
Mike S. Medintz >
"if one feels compelled to wear a sweatshirt over one's bikini for an
"after" pic, it's probably not really an after." -Sarah Jane, in m.f.w

July 17th 03, 06:47 PM
On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 02:24:06 GMT, "Mistress Krista"
*rem0vethis*> wrote:

>If you've been in around 50 street fights, isn't this a sign that you should
>perhaps start working on your social skills or something?

That's indeed a sign that his gerbil voodoo or verbal judo[1] or
whatever didn't work.

Better to just transition straight to the liquid judo, MHO. Freshen
his breath, tactically!

[1] A book on interpersonal communication by Bruce Thompson. It's a
metric assload better than the video, and almost worth the cover
price.
Mike S. Medintz >
"if one feels compelled to wear a sweatshirt over one's bikini for an
"after" pic, it's probably not really an after." -Sarah Jane, in m.f.w

Pierre Honeyman
July 17th 03, 06:47 PM
John M. Williams > wrote in message >...
>
> <sigh> Where's John Carlo when you really need him?

Man, I miss that guy.

Pierre

Pierre Honeyman
July 17th 03, 06:47 PM
John M. Williams > wrote in message >...
>
> <sigh> Where's John Carlo when you really need him?

Man, I miss that guy.

Pierre

Piscanthropus Profundus
July 17th 03, 07:12 PM
"Mistress Krista" *rem0vethis*> wrote in
message ble.rogers.com...
>
> "sean" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Your first paragraph is exactly, I mean word for word, what a very
> > close friend of mine(who, is practically like the guy from the movie
> > and stopped counting how many scraps he had been in around 50 or so).
> >
>
>
> If you've been in around 50 street fights, isn't this a sign that you
should
> perhaps start working on your social skills or something?

Depends if you've come out winning the fights. 8')

Piscanthropus Profundus
July 17th 03, 07:12 PM
"Mistress Krista" *rem0vethis*> wrote in
message ble.rogers.com...
>
> "sean" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Your first paragraph is exactly, I mean word for word, what a very
> > close friend of mine(who, is practically like the guy from the movie
> > and stopped counting how many scraps he had been in around 50 or so).
> >
>
>
> If you've been in around 50 street fights, isn't this a sign that you
should
> perhaps start working on your social skills or something?

Depends if you've come out winning the fights. 8')

John M. Williams
July 17th 03, 07:31 PM
(PatrickFalcon31) wrote:

>>>Another potential difficulty is finding the right person to teach him those
>>>social skills.
>>
>><sigh> Where's John Carlo when you really need him?
>>
>
>There are days when I miss him. Next to Robert Dorf and Viki Selca, he was
>perhaps the funniest person mfw has ever seen.

Unfortunately, that wasn't his intent.

John M. Williams
July 17th 03, 07:31 PM
(PatrickFalcon31) wrote:

>>>Another potential difficulty is finding the right person to teach him those
>>>social skills.
>>
>><sigh> Where's John Carlo when you really need him?
>>
>
>There are days when I miss him. Next to Robert Dorf and Viki Selca, he was
>perhaps the funniest person mfw has ever seen.

Unfortunately, that wasn't his intent.

John HUDSON
July 18th 03, 08:06 AM
On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 22:52:25 -0500, "Jim Ranieri" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>John M. Williams wrote in message
>...
(slotman1958) wrote:
>>
>>>> I've had several martial arts instructors who worked from the
>>>> assumption that if you get in a street fight, it will be with someone
>>>> who has no training. For example, they might say, "On the street,
>>>> nobody ever throws a close, tight left hook. It will be a wide,
>>>> looping punch that's easy to get inside."
>>>
>>>In a real street fight, all things being equal, the winner is going to
>>>be the guy who can hit first, hardest, and not be afraid of getting
>>>hit himself.
>>
>>Part of this is true. But today, in the gritty "real world," there is
>>one greater factor: What are you willing to do?
>>
>>Are you willing to knock someone down and keep kicking him in the head
>>until he stops moving, at which time he may or may not be dead? Are
>>you willing to hit him in the face with a beer bottle, or even a thick
>>beer mug? Are you willing to slam his head into concrete?
>>
>>These are examples of real "street fights" in today's world ... one's
>>I have dealt with in my job. It's not the same as the UFC. And it's
>>neither pretty or sporting.
>
>No, it's pretty degrading. Unlike the saloon fights in "Shane"

These film fights are highly entertaining, but as much like 'real'
fighting as ballet is to rugby football.

My favourite 'film fights' are the John Wayne classics, where the
participants take repeated turns at delivering fearsome blows to the
head, which they merely shook off, with no apparent damage to head or
hands.

A great example of the genre was in 'Donovan's Reef' circa 1963, when
'Duke' Wayne and Lee Marvin had their annual confrontation in the
island's bar.

Fantastic! ;o)

> - the fights
>I've seen usually end up with one guy in a headlock and the other guy
>groping wildly for hair/eyes/whatever - then you get to cap off the evening
>with ripped clothes, maybe a broken hand and your bloody face being
>illuminated by police strobes as you lean against the trunk of the squad
>car. Then, you get to spend the next few weeks explaining to co-workers,
>relatives, etc. why your face is scraped up. That, and waiting to see if you
>get served with a civil suit.
>
>And as it turns out, it doesn't even impress the chicks. Go figure.
>
>
>
>
>

John HUDSON
July 18th 03, 08:06 AM
On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 22:52:25 -0500, "Jim Ranieri" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>John M. Williams wrote in message
>...
(slotman1958) wrote:
>>
>>>> I've had several martial arts instructors who worked from the
>>>> assumption that if you get in a street fight, it will be with someone
>>>> who has no training. For example, they might say, "On the street,
>>>> nobody ever throws a close, tight left hook. It will be a wide,
>>>> looping punch that's easy to get inside."
>>>
>>>In a real street fight, all things being equal, the winner is going to
>>>be the guy who can hit first, hardest, and not be afraid of getting
>>>hit himself.
>>
>>Part of this is true. But today, in the gritty "real world," there is
>>one greater factor: What are you willing to do?
>>
>>Are you willing to knock someone down and keep kicking him in the head
>>until he stops moving, at which time he may or may not be dead? Are
>>you willing to hit him in the face with a beer bottle, or even a thick
>>beer mug? Are you willing to slam his head into concrete?
>>
>>These are examples of real "street fights" in today's world ... one's
>>I have dealt with in my job. It's not the same as the UFC. And it's
>>neither pretty or sporting.
>
>No, it's pretty degrading. Unlike the saloon fights in "Shane"

These film fights are highly entertaining, but as much like 'real'
fighting as ballet is to rugby football.

My favourite 'film fights' are the John Wayne classics, where the
participants take repeated turns at delivering fearsome blows to the
head, which they merely shook off, with no apparent damage to head or
hands.

A great example of the genre was in 'Donovan's Reef' circa 1963, when
'Duke' Wayne and Lee Marvin had their annual confrontation in the
island's bar.

Fantastic! ;o)

> - the fights
>I've seen usually end up with one guy in a headlock and the other guy
>groping wildly for hair/eyes/whatever - then you get to cap off the evening
>with ripped clothes, maybe a broken hand and your bloody face being
>illuminated by police strobes as you lean against the trunk of the squad
>car. Then, you get to spend the next few weeks explaining to co-workers,
>relatives, etc. why your face is scraped up. That, and waiting to see if you
>get served with a civil suit.
>
>And as it turns out, it doesn't even impress the chicks. Go figure.
>
>
>
>
>

Brian Link
July 18th 03, 09:33 AM
On 17 Jul 2003 02:53:24 -0700, (dudara) wrote:

(sean) wrote in message >...
>> (slotman1958) wrote in message
>> >
>> > In a real street fight, all things being equal, the winner is going to
>> > be the guy who can hit first, hardest, and not be afraid of getting
>> > hit himself.
>> >
>> > What all of these "martial arts" classes, books, etc. fail to mention
>> > is this: if you have never been in a fight, you don't know how to
>> > fight. Period. How good a fighter you are is directly in proportion to
>> > how many fights you have been in. I don't care if you made it to 18th
>> > degree black belt, if your program didn't include *intensive*
>> > sparring, you don't know how to fight.
>> >
>> > I saw a movie recently called *Knockaround Guys* where the Vin Diesel
>> > character squares off against a guy who's supposed to be the toughest
>> > guy in town and tells him that he figured out as a kid he needed to
>> > have at least 500 street fights under his belt before he could
>> > consider himself *tough*. He then proceeds to beat the crap out of the
>> > guy in a pretty realistic (for a movie anyway) fight.
>> >
>> > Fighting is a learned skill and the more you do it, the better at it
>> > you get.
>>
>> I would just like to comment that this is about the single best
>> response I've seen to the whole street fight vs classic artial arts
>> war I've seen.
>>
>> Your first paragraph is exactly, I mean word for word, what a very
>> close friend of mine(who, is practically like the guy from the movie
>> and stopped counting how many scraps he had been in around 50 or so).
>>
>> The ability to take a punch and know that it really is more of a
>> mental shock than a physicaly disabling, in his opinion, is what wins
>> fights.
>
>I've been in a few TaeKwon Do tournament sparring bouts where I've
>taken some heavy punches, even though our style is supposed to be
>semi-contact. Some people are jsut heavy hitters. After getting hit in
>the nose (I've a bad habit of dropping my guard before certain kicks,
>but I'm learning) back in February, I still have some sinus trouble.
>
>The thing is, once you've been hit hard enough to see stars, you're
>not that afraid of it any more. You want to avoid it happening again
>of course, and you definitely don't want it happening after a few
>drinks in the street.
>
>Unless your martial art includes serious sparring practice, you're
>learning sweet fa. Fact is, most fights are dirty, and your fighting
>style will not be pretty, it will be effective. But I have no fear,
>that if I had to, I could fight to protect myself. One good strike,
>and then you wouldn't see me for dust as I ran away. Best defensive
>skill there is.

Veteran fighters or even sparrers are no doubt better off than
virgins. There is a perceptible benefit, however, to

1. being fit
2. being aware of your surroundings
3. knowing how to fall down without breaking a hip
4. knowing how to, at least, block the second punch if you get the
chance.

Almost any martial art training will aid in those four abilities, done
for a meaningful amount of time. Event Tai Chi will show you how to
slip a punch.

These skills can give you an incremental advantage over the other
drunken pugilist. Which may make the difference between getting
crushed before you know what happened and making it to the bouncer/the
rent-a-cop/your car/your buddies in time.

Long aikido practice with a decent teacher can also give you those
four abilities. However, one of my teachers illustrated aikido's
primary advantage over hard arts with the scenario:

"Some guy picks a fight with a tae kwon do boxer. The confident TKD
goes into full berserker mode, kicking and punching and soon
everybody's friends are involved. When the police arrive, they ask
what happened, and the witnesses explain that this kung fu freak waded
into a crowd and broke everyone's noses.

Some guy picks a fight with an aikido student. Soon his friends join
in. When the police ask what happened, the witness says that he saw
all these people flying around and falling down and everyone was
throwing punches except this one guy who just kept sort of meandering
between them all.

Which guy gets to go home?"

At any rate, according to the martial arts newsgroups all fights end
up on the ground anyway, so your best bet beyond escaping is to know
how to choke someone out, snap their necks or break their arms from
the mount.

BLink
Brian Link in St. Paul, Minnesota

Brian Link
July 18th 03, 09:33 AM
On 17 Jul 2003 02:53:24 -0700, (dudara) wrote:

(sean) wrote in message >...
>> (slotman1958) wrote in message
>> >
>> > In a real street fight, all things being equal, the winner is going to
>> > be the guy who can hit first, hardest, and not be afraid of getting
>> > hit himself.
>> >
>> > What all of these "martial arts" classes, books, etc. fail to mention
>> > is this: if you have never been in a fight, you don't know how to
>> > fight. Period. How good a fighter you are is directly in proportion to
>> > how many fights you have been in. I don't care if you made it to 18th
>> > degree black belt, if your program didn't include *intensive*
>> > sparring, you don't know how to fight.
>> >
>> > I saw a movie recently called *Knockaround Guys* where the Vin Diesel
>> > character squares off against a guy who's supposed to be the toughest
>> > guy in town and tells him that he figured out as a kid he needed to
>> > have at least 500 street fights under his belt before he could
>> > consider himself *tough*. He then proceeds to beat the crap out of the
>> > guy in a pretty realistic (for a movie anyway) fight.
>> >
>> > Fighting is a learned skill and the more you do it, the better at it
>> > you get.
>>
>> I would just like to comment that this is about the single best
>> response I've seen to the whole street fight vs classic artial arts
>> war I've seen.
>>
>> Your first paragraph is exactly, I mean word for word, what a very
>> close friend of mine(who, is practically like the guy from the movie
>> and stopped counting how many scraps he had been in around 50 or so).
>>
>> The ability to take a punch and know that it really is more of a
>> mental shock than a physicaly disabling, in his opinion, is what wins
>> fights.
>
>I've been in a few TaeKwon Do tournament sparring bouts where I've
>taken some heavy punches, even though our style is supposed to be
>semi-contact. Some people are jsut heavy hitters. After getting hit in
>the nose (I've a bad habit of dropping my guard before certain kicks,
>but I'm learning) back in February, I still have some sinus trouble.
>
>The thing is, once you've been hit hard enough to see stars, you're
>not that afraid of it any more. You want to avoid it happening again
>of course, and you definitely don't want it happening after a few
>drinks in the street.
>
>Unless your martial art includes serious sparring practice, you're
>learning sweet fa. Fact is, most fights are dirty, and your fighting
>style will not be pretty, it will be effective. But I have no fear,
>that if I had to, I could fight to protect myself. One good strike,
>and then you wouldn't see me for dust as I ran away. Best defensive
>skill there is.

Veteran fighters or even sparrers are no doubt better off than
virgins. There is a perceptible benefit, however, to

1. being fit
2. being aware of your surroundings
3. knowing how to fall down without breaking a hip
4. knowing how to, at least, block the second punch if you get the
chance.

Almost any martial art training will aid in those four abilities, done
for a meaningful amount of time. Event Tai Chi will show you how to
slip a punch.

These skills can give you an incremental advantage over the other
drunken pugilist. Which may make the difference between getting
crushed before you know what happened and making it to the bouncer/the
rent-a-cop/your car/your buddies in time.

Long aikido practice with a decent teacher can also give you those
four abilities. However, one of my teachers illustrated aikido's
primary advantage over hard arts with the scenario:

"Some guy picks a fight with a tae kwon do boxer. The confident TKD
goes into full berserker mode, kicking and punching and soon
everybody's friends are involved. When the police arrive, they ask
what happened, and the witnesses explain that this kung fu freak waded
into a crowd and broke everyone's noses.

Some guy picks a fight with an aikido student. Soon his friends join
in. When the police ask what happened, the witness says that he saw
all these people flying around and falling down and everyone was
throwing punches except this one guy who just kept sort of meandering
between them all.

Which guy gets to go home?"

At any rate, according to the martial arts newsgroups all fights end
up on the ground anyway, so your best bet beyond escaping is to know
how to choke someone out, snap their necks or break their arms from
the mount.

BLink
Brian Link in St. Paul, Minnesota

Theresa
July 18th 03, 03:22 PM
Robert Dorf wrote:

>> At any rate, according to the martial arts newsgroups all fights end
>> up on the ground anyway, so your best bet beyond escaping is to know
>> how to choke someone out, snap their necks or break their arms from
>> the mount.
>>
>
> Amazing that the mean streets are filled with wild computer literate
> warriors engaged in a frenzied bone-snapping struggle for survival,
> yet when I go into IT companies I see very few neck braces and plenty
> of donuts.

Well, do people look at you at work and think, yep, there's a dedicated
lifter?

I can't believe I finally get to say this, I'm so happy:

Jpegs, please.


T

--
Knowledge is power.
Power corrupts.
Study hard. Be evil.

Theresa
July 18th 03, 03:22 PM
Robert Dorf wrote:

>> At any rate, according to the martial arts newsgroups all fights end
>> up on the ground anyway, so your best bet beyond escaping is to know
>> how to choke someone out, snap their necks or break their arms from
>> the mount.
>>
>
> Amazing that the mean streets are filled with wild computer literate
> warriors engaged in a frenzied bone-snapping struggle for survival,
> yet when I go into IT companies I see very few neck braces and plenty
> of donuts.

Well, do people look at you at work and think, yep, there's a dedicated
lifter?

I can't believe I finally get to say this, I'm so happy:

Jpegs, please.


T

--
Knowledge is power.
Power corrupts.
Study hard. Be evil.

Badger South
July 18th 03, 03:30 PM
In article >,
Theresa > wrote:
>Robert Dorf wrote:
>
>>> At any rate, according to the martial arts newsgroups all fights end
>>> up on the ground anyway, so your best bet beyond escaping is to know
>>> how to choke someone out, snap their necks or break their arms from
>>> the mount.
>>>
>>
>> Amazing that the mean streets are filled with wild computer literate
>> warriors engaged in a frenzied bone-snapping struggle for survival,
>> yet when I go into IT companies I see very few neck braces and plenty
>> of donuts.
>
>Well, do people look at you at work and think, yep, there's a dedicated
>lifter?
>
>I can't believe I finally get to say this, I'm so happy:
>
>Jpegs, please.
>
>
>T

Holy Cr*p, T, do you mean to say you haven't been to Gunn's RMA
website with all the pictures of Gi, and Trav's stunt double?

Hey, I'm even on there. ;-)

-Badger South
--

Badger South
July 18th 03, 03:30 PM
In article >,
Theresa > wrote:
>Robert Dorf wrote:
>
>>> At any rate, according to the martial arts newsgroups all fights end
>>> up on the ground anyway, so your best bet beyond escaping is to know
>>> how to choke someone out, snap their necks or break their arms from
>>> the mount.
>>>
>>
>> Amazing that the mean streets are filled with wild computer literate
>> warriors engaged in a frenzied bone-snapping struggle for survival,
>> yet when I go into IT companies I see very few neck braces and plenty
>> of donuts.
>
>Well, do people look at you at work and think, yep, there's a dedicated
>lifter?
>
>I can't believe I finally get to say this, I'm so happy:
>
>Jpegs, please.
>
>
>T

Holy Cr*p, T, do you mean to say you haven't been to Gunn's RMA
website with all the pictures of Gi, and Trav's stunt double?

Hey, I'm even on there. ;-)

-Badger South
--

Lee Michaels
July 18th 03, 03:32 PM
"Robert Dorf" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 02:33:07 -0500, Brian Link > wrote:
>
> <snip>
> >
> >At any rate, according to the martial arts newsgroups all fights end
> >up on the ground anyway, so your best bet beyond escaping is to know
> >how to choke someone out, snap their necks or break their arms from
> >the mount.
> >
>
> Amazing that the mean streets are filled with wild computer literate
> warriors engaged in a frenzied bone-snapping struggle for survival,
> yet when I go into IT companies I see very few neck braces and plenty
> of donuts.

You outa see the moves these guys make on pizza and donuts.

Lee Michaels
July 18th 03, 03:32 PM
"Robert Dorf" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 02:33:07 -0500, Brian Link > wrote:
>
> <snip>
> >
> >At any rate, according to the martial arts newsgroups all fights end
> >up on the ground anyway, so your best bet beyond escaping is to know
> >how to choke someone out, snap their necks or break their arms from
> >the mount.
> >
>
> Amazing that the mean streets are filled with wild computer literate
> warriors engaged in a frenzied bone-snapping struggle for survival,
> yet when I go into IT companies I see very few neck braces and plenty
> of donuts.

You outa see the moves these guys make on pizza and donuts.

PatrickFalcon31
July 18th 03, 04:43 PM
>Subject: Re: How Good Are Street-Fighters?
>From: (Badger South)
>Date: 7/18/03 8:30 AM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>In article >,
>Theresa > wrote:
>>Robert Dorf wrote:
>>
>>>> At any rate, according to the martial arts newsgroups all fights end
>>>> up on the ground anyway, so your best bet beyond escaping is to know
>>>> how to choke someone out, snap their necks or break their arms from
>>>> the mount.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Amazing that the mean streets are filled with wild computer literate
>>> warriors engaged in a frenzied bone-snapping struggle for survival,
>>> yet when I go into IT companies I see very few neck braces and plenty
>>> of donuts.
>>
>>Well, do people look at you at work and think, yep, there's a dedicated
>>lifter?
>>
>>I can't believe I finally get to say this, I'm so happy:
>>
>>Jpegs, please.
>>
>>
>>T
>
>Holy Cr*p, T, do you mean to say you haven't been to Gunn's RMA
>website with all the pictures of Gi, and Trav's stunt double?
>
>Hey, I'm even on there. ;-)
>
>-Badger South

Yeah, and you look like you're in pretty good shape. Somehow, though, your
pictures just aren't as attention-getting as Jill's. Sorry, dude.

Patrick Falcon

PatrickFalcon31
July 18th 03, 04:43 PM
>Subject: Re: How Good Are Street-Fighters?
>From: (Badger South)
>Date: 7/18/03 8:30 AM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>In article >,
>Theresa > wrote:
>>Robert Dorf wrote:
>>
>>>> At any rate, according to the martial arts newsgroups all fights end
>>>> up on the ground anyway, so your best bet beyond escaping is to know
>>>> how to choke someone out, snap their necks or break their arms from
>>>> the mount.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Amazing that the mean streets are filled with wild computer literate
>>> warriors engaged in a frenzied bone-snapping struggle for survival,
>>> yet when I go into IT companies I see very few neck braces and plenty
>>> of donuts.
>>
>>Well, do people look at you at work and think, yep, there's a dedicated
>>lifter?
>>
>>I can't believe I finally get to say this, I'm so happy:
>>
>>Jpegs, please.
>>
>>
>>T
>
>Holy Cr*p, T, do you mean to say you haven't been to Gunn's RMA
>website with all the pictures of Gi, and Trav's stunt double?
>
>Hey, I'm even on there. ;-)
>
>-Badger South

Yeah, and you look like you're in pretty good shape. Somehow, though, your
pictures just aren't as attention-getting as Jill's. Sorry, dude.

Patrick Falcon

sean
July 18th 03, 05:24 PM
Robert Dorf > wrote in message >...
> On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 02:40:12 GMT, "Lee Michaels"
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >"Mistress Krista" *rem0vethis*> wrote in
> >message ble.rogers.com...
> >>
> >> "sean" > wrote in message
> >> om...
> >> > Your first paragraph is exactly, I mean word for word, what a very
> >> > close friend of mine(who, is practically like the guy from the movie
> >> > and stopped counting how many scraps he had been in around 50 or so).
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> If you've been in around 50 street fights, isn't this a sign that you
> should
> >> perhaps start working on your social skills or something?
> >>
> >
> >LOL
> >
> >Social skills?? Whazzat?
> >
> >I am certain in some environments those 50 fights count as "social skills".
> >
> >Another potential difficulty is finding the right person to teach him those
> >social skills.
> >
> I just can't see how the heck you get through 50 "street fights" in
> America without getting shot, arrested or both. Unless by "street
> fights" you mean "punching young drunks then running away."


neighborhood rules. I most definately do not mean punching young
drunks and running away, he has never run from anything or anyone in
his life, even though a few times he should have(he a virtually flat
now from getting hit some many times. This guy is an outstanding
athelete and has been all his life. he spent a few overnighters in
lock up as well.

Just a little clarification. We are talking about a guy in his early
forties, who's first fight as high school freshman with the supposedly
toughest senior in his school(who he destroyed with not to much
effort) made him the guy's ass to kick to establish themself as the
tough guy on the block. So he was the target throughout high school
and in the surrounding towns as the guy to beat.

He is also one of those guys who's "look" just seems to invite
aggression, I'm sure you know the type.

He is the nicest guy you'll ever meet, he'd give you the shirt off his
back to help you, but he is very definately a "a"
personality(president of a company now) and if someone give's him a
nasty look and makes a idiot comment, it is percieved as a challenge
and does no go unanswered.

sean
July 18th 03, 05:24 PM
Robert Dorf > wrote in message >...
> On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 02:40:12 GMT, "Lee Michaels"
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >"Mistress Krista" *rem0vethis*> wrote in
> >message ble.rogers.com...
> >>
> >> "sean" > wrote in message
> >> om...
> >> > Your first paragraph is exactly, I mean word for word, what a very
> >> > close friend of mine(who, is practically like the guy from the movie
> >> > and stopped counting how many scraps he had been in around 50 or so).
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> If you've been in around 50 street fights, isn't this a sign that you
> should
> >> perhaps start working on your social skills or something?
> >>
> >
> >LOL
> >
> >Social skills?? Whazzat?
> >
> >I am certain in some environments those 50 fights count as "social skills".
> >
> >Another potential difficulty is finding the right person to teach him those
> >social skills.
> >
> I just can't see how the heck you get through 50 "street fights" in
> America without getting shot, arrested or both. Unless by "street
> fights" you mean "punching young drunks then running away."


neighborhood rules. I most definately do not mean punching young
drunks and running away, he has never run from anything or anyone in
his life, even though a few times he should have(he a virtually flat
now from getting hit some many times. This guy is an outstanding
athelete and has been all his life. he spent a few overnighters in
lock up as well.

Just a little clarification. We are talking about a guy in his early
forties, who's first fight as high school freshman with the supposedly
toughest senior in his school(who he destroyed with not to much
effort) made him the guy's ass to kick to establish themself as the
tough guy on the block. So he was the target throughout high school
and in the surrounding towns as the guy to beat.

He is also one of those guys who's "look" just seems to invite
aggression, I'm sure you know the type.

He is the nicest guy you'll ever meet, he'd give you the shirt off his
back to help you, but he is very definately a "a"
personality(president of a company now) and if someone give's him a
nasty look and makes a idiot comment, it is percieved as a challenge
and does no go unanswered.

Peter Rosa
July 18th 03, 09:36 PM
"Mistress Krista" *rem0vethis*> wrote in message ogers.com>...
> "sean" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Your first paragraph is exactly, I mean word for word, what a very
> > close friend of mine(who, is practically like the guy from the movie
> > and stopped counting how many scraps he had been in around 50 or so).
> >
>
>
> If you've been in around 50 street fights, isn't this a sign that you should
> perhaps start working on your social skills or something?

I would agree, except given the number of people with weapons today
you would probably have been fatally shot or stabbed long before
getting to street fight #50.

--
Peter Rosa

Peter Rosa
July 18th 03, 09:36 PM
"Mistress Krista" *rem0vethis*> wrote in message ogers.com>...
> "sean" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Your first paragraph is exactly, I mean word for word, what a very
> > close friend of mine(who, is practically like the guy from the movie
> > and stopped counting how many scraps he had been in around 50 or so).
> >
>
>
> If you've been in around 50 street fights, isn't this a sign that you should
> perhaps start working on your social skills or something?

I would agree, except given the number of people with weapons today
you would probably have been fatally shot or stabbed long before
getting to street fight #50.

--
Peter Rosa

circusgirl
July 19th 03, 07:22 PM
Robert Dorf > wrote in message >...
> On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 02:33:07 -0500, Brian Link > wrote:
>
> <snip>
> >
> >At any rate, according to the martial arts newsgroups all fights end
> >up on the ground anyway, so your best bet beyond escaping is to know
> >how to choke someone out, snap their necks or break their arms from
> >the mount.
> >
>
> Amazing that the mean streets are filled with wild computer literate
> warriors engaged in a frenzied bone-snapping struggle for survival,
> yet when I go into IT companies I see very few neck braces and plenty
> of donuts.

Or tofu, protein powder tubs and lunch boxes filled with chicken salad
and/or cottage cheese, if you visited my workplace.

(This is because I eat all donuts on sight, BTW).

Donnla.

circusgirl
July 19th 03, 07:22 PM
Robert Dorf > wrote in message >...
> On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 02:33:07 -0500, Brian Link > wrote:
>
> <snip>
> >
> >At any rate, according to the martial arts newsgroups all fights end
> >up on the ground anyway, so your best bet beyond escaping is to know
> >how to choke someone out, snap their necks or break their arms from
> >the mount.
> >
>
> Amazing that the mean streets are filled with wild computer literate
> warriors engaged in a frenzied bone-snapping struggle for survival,
> yet when I go into IT companies I see very few neck braces and plenty
> of donuts.

Or tofu, protein powder tubs and lunch boxes filled with chicken salad
and/or cottage cheese, if you visited my workplace.

(This is because I eat all donuts on sight, BTW).

Donnla.

J. Thiessen
July 19th 03, 08:05 PM
Mistress Krista wrote:
>
> "sean" > wrote in message
> om...
>>
>> He is the nicest guy you'll ever meet, he'd give you the shirt off his
>> back to help you, but he is very definately a "a"
>> personality(president of a company now) and if someone give's him a
>> nasty look and makes a idiot comment, it is percieved as a challenge
>> and does no go unanswered.
>
>
> How very alpha male. My thighs are moist at this performative display, as
> per my reproductive destiny.

Are you campaigning for the female lead in "Bad Boyz 3: Bad Boyz with
Good Hearts"?

J.

J. Thiessen
July 19th 03, 08:05 PM
Mistress Krista wrote:
>
> "sean" > wrote in message
> om...
>>
>> He is the nicest guy you'll ever meet, he'd give you the shirt off his
>> back to help you, but he is very definately a "a"
>> personality(president of a company now) and if someone give's him a
>> nasty look and makes a idiot comment, it is percieved as a challenge
>> and does no go unanswered.
>
>
> How very alpha male. My thighs are moist at this performative display, as
> per my reproductive destiny.

Are you campaigning for the female lead in "Bad Boyz 3: Bad Boyz with
Good Hearts"?

J.

August Pamplona
July 19th 03, 08:15 PM
"John HUDSON" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 22:52:25 -0500, "Jim Ranieri" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> >John M. Williams wrote in message
> >...
> (slotman1958) wrote:
> >>
> >>>> I've had several martial arts instructors who worked from the
> >>>> assumption that if you get in a street fight, it will be with
someone
> >>>> who has no training. For example, they might say, "On the
street,
> >>>> nobody ever throws a close, tight left hook. It will be a wide,
> >>>> looping punch that's easy to get inside."
> >>>
> >>>In a real street fight, all things being equal, the winner is going
to
> >>>be the guy who can hit first, hardest, and not be afraid of getting
> >>>hit himself.
> >>
> >>Part of this is true. But today, in the gritty "real world," there
is
> >>one greater factor: What are you willing to do?
> >>
> >>Are you willing to knock someone down and keep kicking him in the
head
> >>until he stops moving, at which time he may or may not be dead? Are
> >>you willing to hit him in the face with a beer bottle, or even a
thick
> >>beer mug? Are you willing to slam his head into concrete?
> >>
> >>These are examples of real "street fights" in today's world ...
one's
> >>I have dealt with in my job. It's not the same as the UFC. And
it's
> >>neither pretty or sporting.
> >
> >No, it's pretty degrading. Unlike the saloon fights in "Shane"
>
> These film fights are highly entertaining, but as much like 'real'
> fighting as ballet is to rugby football.
>
> My favourite 'film fights' are the John Wayne classics, where the
> participants take repeated turns at delivering fearsome blows to the
> head, which they merely shook off, with no apparent damage to head or
> hands.
>
> A great example of the genre was in 'Donovan's Reef' circa 1963, when
> 'Duke' Wayne and Lee Marvin had their annual confrontation in the
> island's bar.
>
> Fantastic! ;o)
>

When it comes to absurd film fight scenes, the fight between Roddy
Piper's character and his coworker, Frank (Keith David (I)), because
Frank won't wear some stupid sunglasses (the special sunglasses the film
revolves around) in John Carpenter's They Live has got to be somewhere
near the top of the list.

Reference: http://us.imdb.com/Details?0096256

August Pamplona
--
"No, jew. Your jew opinion doesn't matter no matter what, jew. Your
writings deserve no comprehension, merely scorn, jew. You are jew."
-Lysis on m.f.w.

a.a. # 1811 apatriot #20
To email replace 'necatoramericanusancylostomaduodenale' with
'cosmicaug'

> > - the fights
> >I've seen usually end up with one guy in a headlock and the other guy
> >groping wildly for hair/eyes/whatever - then you get to cap off the
evening
> >with ripped clothes, maybe a broken hand and your bloody face being
> >illuminated by police strobes as you lean against the trunk of the
squad
> >car. Then, you get to spend the next few weeks explaining to
co-workers,
> >relatives, etc. why your face is scraped up. That, and waiting to see
if you
> >get served with a civil suit.
> >
> >And as it turns out, it doesn't even impress the chicks. Go figure.

August Pamplona
July 19th 03, 08:15 PM
"John HUDSON" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 22:52:25 -0500, "Jim Ranieri" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> >John M. Williams wrote in message
> >...
> (slotman1958) wrote:
> >>
> >>>> I've had several martial arts instructors who worked from the
> >>>> assumption that if you get in a street fight, it will be with
someone
> >>>> who has no training. For example, they might say, "On the
street,
> >>>> nobody ever throws a close, tight left hook. It will be a wide,
> >>>> looping punch that's easy to get inside."
> >>>
> >>>In a real street fight, all things being equal, the winner is going
to
> >>>be the guy who can hit first, hardest, and not be afraid of getting
> >>>hit himself.
> >>
> >>Part of this is true. But today, in the gritty "real world," there
is
> >>one greater factor: What are you willing to do?
> >>
> >>Are you willing to knock someone down and keep kicking him in the
head
> >>until he stops moving, at which time he may or may not be dead? Are
> >>you willing to hit him in the face with a beer bottle, or even a
thick
> >>beer mug? Are you willing to slam his head into concrete?
> >>
> >>These are examples of real "street fights" in today's world ...
one's
> >>I have dealt with in my job. It's not the same as the UFC. And
it's
> >>neither pretty or sporting.
> >
> >No, it's pretty degrading. Unlike the saloon fights in "Shane"
>
> These film fights are highly entertaining, but as much like 'real'
> fighting as ballet is to rugby football.
>
> My favourite 'film fights' are the John Wayne classics, where the
> participants take repeated turns at delivering fearsome blows to the
> head, which they merely shook off, with no apparent damage to head or
> hands.
>
> A great example of the genre was in 'Donovan's Reef' circa 1963, when
> 'Duke' Wayne and Lee Marvin had their annual confrontation in the
> island's bar.
>
> Fantastic! ;o)
>

When it comes to absurd film fight scenes, the fight between Roddy
Piper's character and his coworker, Frank (Keith David (I)), because
Frank won't wear some stupid sunglasses (the special sunglasses the film
revolves around) in John Carpenter's They Live has got to be somewhere
near the top of the list.

Reference: http://us.imdb.com/Details?0096256

August Pamplona
--
"No, jew. Your jew opinion doesn't matter no matter what, jew. Your
writings deserve no comprehension, merely scorn, jew. You are jew."
-Lysis on m.f.w.

a.a. # 1811 apatriot #20
To email replace 'necatoramericanusancylostomaduodenale' with
'cosmicaug'

> > - the fights
> >I've seen usually end up with one guy in a headlock and the other guy
> >groping wildly for hair/eyes/whatever - then you get to cap off the
evening
> >with ripped clothes, maybe a broken hand and your bloody face being
> >illuminated by police strobes as you lean against the trunk of the
squad
> >car. Then, you get to spend the next few weeks explaining to
co-workers,
> >relatives, etc. why your face is scraped up. That, and waiting to see
if you
> >get served with a civil suit.
> >
> >And as it turns out, it doesn't even impress the chicks. Go figure.

Peter Rosa
July 20th 03, 12:24 AM
"John M. Williams" > wrote in message >...
> "Peter Rosa" > wrote:
> > "Mistress Krista" *rem0vethis*> wrote:
> > > "sean" > wrote in message
> > > om...
> > > > Your first paragraph is exactly, I mean word for word, what a very
> > > > close friend of mine(who, is practically like the guy from the movie
> > > > and stopped counting how many scraps he had been in around 50 or so).
> > >
> > > If you've been in around 50 street fights, isn't this a sign that you
> should
> > > perhaps start working on your social skills or something?
> >
> > I would agree, except given the number of people with weapons today
> > you would probably have been fatally shot or stabbed long before
> > getting to street fight #50.
>
> And if one acquires a big reputation as a street fighter, that
> reputation will surely be raised at the homicide trial of
> the person who shoots him and claims self defense.
>
> And, yes, "evidence of a pertinent trait of character of the
> victim of the crime offered by an accused," such as the
> victim's history of violent aggression in a self-defense
> case, is admissible evidence.

And "winning" a street fight can be a somewhat dubious honor. I
recall an incident that occurred during my senior year in high school
over 25 years ago. A kid I knew a bit, name of Raymond, got into a
wild street brawl one evening with a slightly older kid. From what I
heard (I was not present) it was a good old-fashioned beatdown, with
the opponent left lying a bloody mess on the street. Raymond had only
a couple minor bruises and scratches and won by a huge margin.
Later that evening, Raymond dropped stone-cold dead. He had suffered
bleeding in the brain from one of the few punches his "defeated"
opponent had managed to land.

--
Peter Rosa

Peter Rosa
July 20th 03, 12:24 AM
"John M. Williams" > wrote in message >...
> "Peter Rosa" > wrote:
> > "Mistress Krista" *rem0vethis*> wrote:
> > > "sean" > wrote in message
> > > om...
> > > > Your first paragraph is exactly, I mean word for word, what a very
> > > > close friend of mine(who, is practically like the guy from the movie
> > > > and stopped counting how many scraps he had been in around 50 or so).
> > >
> > > If you've been in around 50 street fights, isn't this a sign that you
> should
> > > perhaps start working on your social skills or something?
> >
> > I would agree, except given the number of people with weapons today
> > you would probably have been fatally shot or stabbed long before
> > getting to street fight #50.
>
> And if one acquires a big reputation as a street fighter, that
> reputation will surely be raised at the homicide trial of
> the person who shoots him and claims self defense.
>
> And, yes, "evidence of a pertinent trait of character of the
> victim of the crime offered by an accused," such as the
> victim's history of violent aggression in a self-defense
> case, is admissible evidence.

And "winning" a street fight can be a somewhat dubious honor. I
recall an incident that occurred during my senior year in high school
over 25 years ago. A kid I knew a bit, name of Raymond, got into a
wild street brawl one evening with a slightly older kid. From what I
heard (I was not present) it was a good old-fashioned beatdown, with
the opponent left lying a bloody mess on the street. Raymond had only
a couple minor bruises and scratches and won by a huge margin.
Later that evening, Raymond dropped stone-cold dead. He had suffered
bleeding in the brain from one of the few punches his "defeated"
opponent had managed to land.

--
Peter Rosa

sean
July 20th 03, 09:51 PM
(circusgirl) wrote in message
> Your friend then definitely needs to be less confrontational about
> things. Is his macho bull**** worth spending his life in a wheelchair
> or ****ting into a colostomy bag?
>
> I understand that someone giving you **** in the street is a pain. I
> get it all the time (lone women walking around town are seen as an
> easy target for harassment). Although I'm sure I could kick some asses
> should I chose (I do quite a bit of martial arts) I ignore these calls
> to argument/fight. I've had one violent altercation with someone that
> I walked into due to being too quick to anger and being a smart ass,
> so now I prefer to swallow my macho pride as such and ignore. It
> sucks, but so did my visit to a&e due to being BITTEN. I'm serious.
>
> Yes, you may feel a pussy, but cats have 9 lives, remember?
>
> There are ****wits out there who MUST win each altercation at all
> costs. Their lives revolve around picking a victim and "showing them
> who is boss". They don't care about the law, their own lives or
> wellbeing, and certainly not about yours. If killing you with multiple
> stab wounds is what it will take in order to emerge dominant from any
> social interaction, they will go ahead and do it. Unless you are
> prepared to be equally violent (and I sincerely hope not!) at the drop
> of a hat you can't win with someone like this. Best to avoid. Most
> street "challenges" are someone who has sized you up and wants to get
> their power trip. Yes, it makes me livid when people have a go at me
> in public and I know I can't do anything about it but it beats the
> alternative. When you feel like talking back, think of all the cool
> stuff in your life (family/job/friends/whatever) and think of whether
> you want to give it all up, right now, and miss the rest of your life,
> to win a battle of wills with some random asshole.
>
>
> The fascination people have with tough guys, gangsters/yakuza/south
> american drug barons, street fights etc is best indulged on your DVD
> player, I'd imagine the real thing is more like Scarface than Vice
> City....
>
> ok, lecture over. Y'all can go back to your weights now.
> Donnla.

Hardly macho bull****, but that's your opinion which you are entitled
to.

As I said, he's in his forties now. He has not had any altercations in
nearly a decade(all grown up and responsible now).

But deep down, he is a warrior, and if a challenge was worth his
attention, he'd rise to it(threatening his family for example).

sean
July 20th 03, 09:51 PM
(circusgirl) wrote in message
> Your friend then definitely needs to be less confrontational about
> things. Is his macho bull**** worth spending his life in a wheelchair
> or ****ting into a colostomy bag?
>
> I understand that someone giving you **** in the street is a pain. I
> get it all the time (lone women walking around town are seen as an
> easy target for harassment). Although I'm sure I could kick some asses
> should I chose (I do quite a bit of martial arts) I ignore these calls
> to argument/fight. I've had one violent altercation with someone that
> I walked into due to being too quick to anger and being a smart ass,
> so now I prefer to swallow my macho pride as such and ignore. It
> sucks, but so did my visit to a&e due to being BITTEN. I'm serious.
>
> Yes, you may feel a pussy, but cats have 9 lives, remember?
>
> There are ****wits out there who MUST win each altercation at all
> costs. Their lives revolve around picking a victim and "showing them
> who is boss". They don't care about the law, their own lives or
> wellbeing, and certainly not about yours. If killing you with multiple
> stab wounds is what it will take in order to emerge dominant from any
> social interaction, they will go ahead and do it. Unless you are
> prepared to be equally violent (and I sincerely hope not!) at the drop
> of a hat you can't win with someone like this. Best to avoid. Most
> street "challenges" are someone who has sized you up and wants to get
> their power trip. Yes, it makes me livid when people have a go at me
> in public and I know I can't do anything about it but it beats the
> alternative. When you feel like talking back, think of all the cool
> stuff in your life (family/job/friends/whatever) and think of whether
> you want to give it all up, right now, and miss the rest of your life,
> to win a battle of wills with some random asshole.
>
>
> The fascination people have with tough guys, gangsters/yakuza/south
> american drug barons, street fights etc is best indulged on your DVD
> player, I'd imagine the real thing is more like Scarface than Vice
> City....
>
> ok, lecture over. Y'all can go back to your weights now.
> Donnla.

Hardly macho bull****, but that's your opinion which you are entitled
to.

As I said, he's in his forties now. He has not had any altercations in
nearly a decade(all grown up and responsible now).

But deep down, he is a warrior, and if a challenge was worth his
attention, he'd rise to it(threatening his family for example).

Chris Lee
July 23rd 03, 04:05 AM
(Peter Rosa) wrote in message >...
> "John M. Williams" > wrote in message >...
> > "Peter Rosa" > wrote:
> > > "Mistress Krista" *rem0vethis*> wrote:
> > > > "sean" > wrote in message
> > > > om...
> > > > > Your first paragraph is exactly, I mean word for word, what a very
> > > > > close friend of mine(who, is practically like the guy from the movie
> > > > > and stopped counting how many scraps he had been in around 50 or so).
> > > >
> > > > If you've been in around 50 street fights, isn't this a sign that you
> should
> > > > perhaps start working on your social skills or something?
> > >
> > > I would agree, except given the number of people with weapons today
> > > you would probably have been fatally shot or stabbed long before
> > > getting to street fight #50.
> >
> > And if one acquires a big reputation as a street fighter, that
> > reputation will surely be raised at the homicide trial of
> > the person who shoots him and claims self defense.
> >
> > And, yes, "evidence of a pertinent trait of character of the
> > victim of the crime offered by an accused," such as the
> > victim's history of violent aggression in a self-defense
> > case, is admissible evidence.
>
> And "winning" a street fight can be a somewhat dubious honor. I
> recall an incident that occurred during my senior year in high school
> over 25 years ago. A kid I knew a bit, name of Raymond, got into a
> wild street brawl one evening with a slightly older kid. From what I
> heard (I was not present) it was a good old-fashioned beatdown, with
> the opponent left lying a bloody mess on the street. Raymond had only
> a couple minor bruises and scratches and won by a huge margin.
> Later that evening, Raymond dropped stone-cold dead. He had suffered
> bleeding in the brain from one of the few punches his "defeated"
> opponent had managed to land.

Just got back from a three day backpacking trip in the Sierras. One
of my buddies brought his 18 year old cousin. Last year the kid got
into one of those lame confrontations high school kids get into. He
got sucker punched flat cold and spent two weeks in ICU with bleeding
in his brain. He's lost most of his ability to taste or smell and
each passing day reduces his chance of getting it back.

Sucked even more cuz we were camping in a rare campfire permitted site
and had roasted hotdogs and s'mores. Poor kid missed out.

Chris Lee
July 23rd 03, 04:05 AM
(Peter Rosa) wrote in message >...
> "John M. Williams" > wrote in message >...
> > "Peter Rosa" > wrote:
> > > "Mistress Krista" *rem0vethis*> wrote:
> > > > "sean" > wrote in message
> > > > om...
> > > > > Your first paragraph is exactly, I mean word for word, what a very
> > > > > close friend of mine(who, is practically like the guy from the movie
> > > > > and stopped counting how many scraps he had been in around 50 or so).
> > > >
> > > > If you've been in around 50 street fights, isn't this a sign that you
> should
> > > > perhaps start working on your social skills or something?
> > >
> > > I would agree, except given the number of people with weapons today
> > > you would probably have been fatally shot or stabbed long before
> > > getting to street fight #50.
> >
> > And if one acquires a big reputation as a street fighter, that
> > reputation will surely be raised at the homicide trial of
> > the person who shoots him and claims self defense.
> >
> > And, yes, "evidence of a pertinent trait of character of the
> > victim of the crime offered by an accused," such as the
> > victim's history of violent aggression in a self-defense
> > case, is admissible evidence.
>
> And "winning" a street fight can be a somewhat dubious honor. I
> recall an incident that occurred during my senior year in high school
> over 25 years ago. A kid I knew a bit, name of Raymond, got into a
> wild street brawl one evening with a slightly older kid. From what I
> heard (I was not present) it was a good old-fashioned beatdown, with
> the opponent left lying a bloody mess on the street. Raymond had only
> a couple minor bruises and scratches and won by a huge margin.
> Later that evening, Raymond dropped stone-cold dead. He had suffered
> bleeding in the brain from one of the few punches his "defeated"
> opponent had managed to land.

Just got back from a three day backpacking trip in the Sierras. One
of my buddies brought his 18 year old cousin. Last year the kid got
into one of those lame confrontations high school kids get into. He
got sucker punched flat cold and spent two weeks in ICU with bleeding
in his brain. He's lost most of his ability to taste or smell and
each passing day reduces his chance of getting it back.

Sucked even more cuz we were camping in a rare campfire permitted site
and had roasted hotdogs and s'mores. Poor kid missed out.