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Austin Newton Rice
September 15th 04, 01:38 AM
Ok, my first question is, where can I buy an ephedra/ephedrine/whatever it's
called dietary supplement online? I live in the US, so I assume I have to
order from Canada. Any recommended sites? Also, what's the recommended
dosage?

Also, I did a search, but I haven't been able to figure out exactly what
people mean by EC stacking. Is it related to ephedra? Is it the same thing
as taking ephedra? What's it primarily supposed to help with? Weight loss?
Muscle gain? Neither?

Thanks in advance for any guidance you can provide.

Cheers.

Dally
September 15th 04, 01:57 PM
Austin Newton Rice wrote:

> Ok, my first question is, where can I buy an ephedra/ephedrine/whatever it's
> called dietary supplement online? I live in the US, so I assume I have to
> order from Canada. Any recommended sites? Also, what's the recommended
> dosage?
>
> Also, I did a search, but I haven't been able to figure out exactly what
> people mean by EC stacking. Is it related to ephedra? Is it the same thing
> as taking ephedra? What's it primarily supposed to help with? Weight loss?
> Muscle gain? Neither?

I'm left wondering why you think you need to buy
ephedra/ephedrine/whatever. If you don't know what it does and don't
know where to buy it and don't know how much to take, whatever gave you
the idea that you want to put it in your body?

Google is your friend. But it's not a GOOD friend. What you read isn't
going to be gospel, it's going to be unsubstantiated internet rumor. I
really recommend you know more about what you're putting in your body,
including dosage, effects and contra-indications pertinant to you. This
is a good general rule, but don't you think it gets more important when
you're dealing with substances deemed so dangerous they require
vilification and banning in some people's minds?

Hint: the bans were to protect people like you.

> Thanks in advance for any guidance you can provide.

I also suggest you read up on Darwin awards. People who behave so
stupidly that they get themselves killed make great internet jokes. I
put Steve Belcher in that category.

Dally

Austin Newton Rice
September 15th 04, 06:25 PM
"Dally" > wrote in message
...
> Austin Newton Rice wrote:
>
>> Ok, my first question is, where can I buy an ephedra/ephedrine/whatever
>> it's called dietary supplement online? I live in the US, so I assume I
>> have to order from Canada. Any recommended sites? Also, what's the
>> recommended dosage?
>>
>> Also, I did a search, but I haven't been able to figure out exactly what
>> people mean by EC stacking. Is it related to ephedra? Is it the same
>> thing as taking ephedra? What's it primarily supposed to help with?
>> Weight loss? Muscle gain? Neither?
>
> I'm left wondering why you think you need to buy
> ephedra/ephedrine/whatever. If you don't know what it does and don't know
> where to buy it and don't know how much to take, whatever gave you the
> idea that you want to put it in your body?
>

I know what ephedrine does - it helps you lose weight, presumably by
speeding up your metabolism. That's why I want to use it.

> Google is your friend. But it's not a GOOD friend. What you read isn't
> going to be gospel, it's going to be unsubstantiated internet rumor. I
> really recommend you know more about what you're putting in your body,
> including dosage, effects and contra-indications pertinant to you. This
> is a good general rule, but don't you think it gets more important when
> you're dealing with substances deemed so dangerous they require
> vilification and banning in some people's minds?
>
> Hint: the bans were to protect people like you.

Here's another hint: the government bans lots of things in the name of
"protecting people like me" that I would gladly put in my body. Marijuana
for example. I do not implicitly trust the government to "protect" me.

Dally
September 15th 04, 06:33 PM
Austin Newton Rice wrote:

> "Dally" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Austin Newton Rice wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Ok, my first question is, where can I buy an ephedra/ephedrine/whatever
>>>it's called dietary supplement online? I live in the US, so I assume I
>>>have to order from Canada. Any recommended sites? Also, what's the
>>>recommended dosage?
>>>
>>>Also, I did a search, but I haven't been able to figure out exactly what
>>>people mean by EC stacking. Is it related to ephedra? Is it the same
>>>thing as taking ephedra? What's it primarily supposed to help with?
>>>Weight loss? Muscle gain? Neither?
>>
>>I'm left wondering why you think you need to buy
>>ephedra/ephedrine/whatever. If you don't know what it does and don't know
>>where to buy it and don't know how much to take, whatever gave you the
>>idea that you want to put it in your body?
>>
>
>
> I know what ephedrine does - it helps you lose weight, presumably by
> speeding up your metabolism. That's why I want to use it.

Find the study where it shows it helps you to lose weight. Read it and
determine the dosage they used. See what the regimen was. I believe
there's a white paper on the FDA site about ephedrine that should give
you some hints. You can also find research about it at www.drumlib.com.

Do you know what a stimulant is? Do you know the implications of
speeding up your metabolism by taking stimulants? Have you done a
cost-benefit ratio, i.e., is losing an extra 50 calories a day by taking
$5/day in pills worth it? (I made up those numbers, I don't know what
dose cost you'd have, but I do know that the thermogenic boost is mighty
tiny.)

>>Google is your friend. But it's not a GOOD friend. What you read isn't
>>going to be gospel, it's going to be unsubstantiated internet rumor. I
>>really recommend you know more about what you're putting in your body,
>>including dosage, effects and contra-indications pertinant to you. This
>>is a good general rule, but don't you think it gets more important when
>>you're dealing with substances deemed so dangerous they require
>>vilification and banning in some people's minds?
>>
>>Hint: the bans were to protect people like you.
>
>
> Here's another hint: the government bans lots of things in the name of
> "protecting people like me" that I would gladly put in my body. Marijuana
> for example. I do not implicitly trust the government to "protect" me.

Oh, I agree with you, it's just that you don't know what it is you're
thinking about taking. You're EXACTLY who the government was trying to
protect, people who just heard they could take it to lose weight and
therefore go seek it out without knowledge of dose, effects, research,
etc. If you're going to say you're a smarter consumer than the average
Joe then you've got to be a smarter consumer than the average Joe.

Good luck. I don't mean to haze you. I don't even mean to keep you
alive - I believe in Darwin. I just hoped to get you to educate yourself.

Dally

bc
September 15th 04, 09:59 PM
"Austin Newton Rice" > wrote in message >...
> Ok, my first question is, where can I buy an ephedra/ephedrine/whatever it's
> called dietary supplement online? I live in the US, so I assume I have to
> order from Canada. Any recommended sites? Also, what's the recommended
> dosage?
>
> Also, I did a search, but I haven't been able to figure out exactly what
> people mean by EC stacking. Is it related to ephedra? Is it the same thing
> as taking ephedra? What's it primarily supposed to help with? Weight loss?
> Muscle gain? Neither?
>
> Thanks in advance for any guidance you can provide.
>
> Cheers.

Here's one article from a medscape search:
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/436318?src=search

Here's Cali's faq: http://www.angelfire.com/ca2/LowcarbingDream/ECA.html

Jacob Andersen
September 15th 04, 11:00 PM
"Austin Newton Rice" > wrote in message
k.net...
>
> "Dally" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Austin Newton Rice wrote:
>>
>>> Ok, my first question is, where can I buy an ephedra/ephedrine/whatever
>>> it's called dietary supplement online? I live in the US, so I assume I
>>> have to order from Canada. Any recommended sites? Also, what's the
>>> recommended dosage?
>>>
>>> Also, I did a search, but I haven't been able to figure out exactly what
>>> people mean by EC stacking. Is it related to ephedra? Is it the same
>>> thing as taking ephedra? What's it primarily supposed to help with?
>>> Weight loss? Muscle gain? Neither?
>>
>> I'm left wondering why you think you need to buy
>> ephedra/ephedrine/whatever. If you don't know what it does and don't
>> know where to buy it and don't know how much to take, whatever gave you
>> the idea that you want to put it in your body?
>>
>
> I know what ephedrine does - it helps you lose weight, presumably by
> speeding up your metabolism. That's why I want to use it.

That is not "knowing what it does"

/Jacob

--
"You think he didn't know the 8 points and how to end a life with a super
quickness?"
- RestInParadise

Pete
September 16th 04, 05:25 AM
Dally wrote:

> Hint: the bans were to protect people like you.

> Dally

Are you implying ephedrine use is unsafe?


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Lyle McDonald
September 16th 04, 05:45 AM
Pete wrote:

> Dally wrote:
>
>
>>Hint: the bans were to protect people like you.
>
>
>>Dally
>
>
> Are you implying ephedrine use is unsafe?
>

Any drug can be unsafe in the hands of a moron.

The problem has less to do with the drug (generally) and more to do with
the moron (generally).

Lyle

Rural living is good living
September 16th 04, 07:58 AM
>Hint: the bans were to protect people like you.

The ban was to control people and eliminate freedom. BTW, the ban was
unconstitutional.

Tired of corrupt politicians and busybodies trying to run your life, family,
and property? Want real freedom?
Visit http://www.freestateproject.com

Bob MacWilliam
September 16th 04, 02:45 PM
"Austin Newton Rice" > wrote in message >...
> "Dally" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Austin Newton Rice wrote:
> >
> >> Ok, my first question is, where can I buy an ephedra/ephedrine/whatever
> >> it's called dietary supplement online? I live in the US, so I assume I
> >> have to order from Canada. Any recommended sites? Also, what's the
> >> recommended dosage?
> >>
> >> Also, I did a search, but I haven't been able to figure out exactly what
> >> people mean by EC stacking. Is it related to ephedra? Is it the same
> >> thing as taking ephedra? What's it primarily supposed to help with?
> >> Weight loss? Muscle gain? Neither?
> >
> > I'm left wondering why you think you need to buy
> > ephedra/ephedrine/whatever. If you don't know what it does and don't know
> > where to buy it and don't know how much to take, whatever gave you the
> > idea that you want to put it in your body?
> >
>
> I know what ephedrine does - it helps you lose weight, presumably by
> speeding up your metabolism. That's why I want to use it.
>
> > Google is your friend. But it's not a GOOD friend. What you read isn't
> > going to be gospel, it's going to be unsubstantiated internet rumor. I
> > really recommend you know more about what you're putting in your body,
> > including dosage, effects and contra-indications pertinant to you. This
> > is a good general rule, but don't you think it gets more important when
> > you're dealing with substances deemed so dangerous they require
> > vilification and banning in some people's minds?
> >
> > Hint: the bans were to protect people like you.
>
> Here's another hint: the government bans lots of things in the name of
> "protecting people like me" that I would gladly put in my body. Marijuana
> for example. I do not implicitly trust the government to "protect" me.

To answer your question, EC stacking means the combination of
ephedrine and caffeine.

I have used this stack in the past with success, and have also got
ripped without it. After a short while (couple weeks), I felt very
little side effects (but the benfits continue as you'll read if you do
some research).

If I recall correctly, the benefit of EC + calorie restriction
compared to just an equivalent calorie restriction alone is the
neighbourhood of 10%. In other words, a 20 lb loss would be 22 lbs if
EC was added, all else being equal. This is not a big deal for most
people, but in bodybuilding it could make all the difference. You
need to decide if it's worth it for you.

This is neither a suggestion to use it or a warning against it. If
you do use it, I strongly suggest you ramp up the dosage slowly over a
couple of weeks to minimize side effects. By the end of my dieting/EC
cycle I could take 24mg E, 200 mg C and go to bed and sleep perfectly
well a half hour later. Taking this dose initially however could
cause some very apparent side effects. Have you seen the "tweak"
character I think he's called on South Park?

However, you'll also need to ramp it down slowly too at the end to
minimize the withdrawl side effects too. These are drugs remember,
and you CAN get addicted.

Bob

Dally
September 16th 04, 04:14 PM
Lyle McDonald wrote:
> Pete wrote:
>> Dally wrote:
>>
>>> Hint: the bans were to protect people like you.

>> Are you implying ephedrine use is unsafe?
>>
>
> Any drug can be unsafe in the hands of a moron.
>
> The problem has less to do with the drug (generally) and more to do with
> the moron (generally).
>
> Lyle

What he said. My problem is that people start out taking 24 mg of E and
200 mg of C three times a day and get heart palpitations and jittery and
can't sleep and utterly freak about the side effects and then try to get
E outlawed because it - gasp - acts a stimulant!

This guy came here saying "I don't know what it is, I don't know what it
does, but give me some." He's exactly who the government was trying to
protect by banning ephedra.

I don't know if you can tell from this thread, by I do an EC stack. I
find it helps me on several levels and I really appreciate having the
option. I didn't care that they banned ephedra since I make my own
stack, but I do mind that people give EC stacking such a perjorative
meaning in everyday use because morons take it inadvisably.

Dally

bc
September 16th 04, 05:24 PM
(bc) wrote in message >...
> "Austin Newton Rice" > wrote in message >...
> > Ok, my first question is, where can I buy an ephedra/ephedrine/whatever it's
> > called dietary supplement online? I live in the US, so I assume I have to
> > order from Canada. Any recommended sites? Also, what's the recommended
> > dosage?
> >
> > Also, I did a search, but I haven't been able to figure out exactly what
> > people mean by EC stacking. Is it related to ephedra? Is it the same thing
> > as taking ephedra? What's it primarily supposed to help with? Weight loss?
> > Muscle gain? Neither?
> >
> > Thanks in advance for any guidance you can provide.
> >
> > Cheers.
>
> Here's one article from a medscape search:
> http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/436318?src=search
>
> Here's Cali's faq: http://www.angelfire.com/ca2/LowcarbingDream/ECA.html

I forgot to mention that the "A" part of the stack is considered to be
unimportant, at least in regards to the EC and weightloss.

- bc

Brent Wilson
September 16th 04, 05:39 PM
>Subject: Re: questions about ephedra/ephadrine/EC Stacking
>From: Dally
>Date: 9/16/2004 10:14 AM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>Lyle McDonald wrote:
>> Pete wrote:
>>> Dally wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hint: the bans were to protect people like you.
>
>>> Are you implying ephedrine use is unsafe?
>>>
>>
>> Any drug can be unsafe in the hands of a moron.
>>
>> The problem has less to do with the drug (generally) and more to do with
>> the moron (generally).
>>
>> Lyle
>
>What he said. My problem is that people start out taking 24 mg of E and
>200 mg of C three times a day and get heart palpitations and jittery and
>can't sleep and utterly freak about the side effects and then try to get
>E outlawed because it - gasp - acts a stimulant!
>

One thing I've never understood is that in the book "The New Diet Pills", Hobbs
highlights a study that indicated that 10mg of Ephedrine was the second most
effective dose next to the typical 20/200 E/C. Why is this dose never
recommended?? Seems to me that the jitters and other issues are probably
caused more by the huge (for me) dose caffeine and not the ephedrine. If one
can get 80-90% of the benefits by taking a half dose E and no C, why not??

Brent

Dally
September 16th 04, 07:10 PM
Brent Wilson wrote:

> One thing I've never understood is that in the book "The New Diet Pills", Hobbs
> highlights a study that indicated that 10mg of Ephedrine was the second most
> effective dose next to the typical 20/200 E/C. Why is this dose never
> recommended?? Seems to me that the jitters and other issues are probably
> caused more by the huge (for me) dose caffeine and not the ephedrine. If one
> can get 80-90% of the benefits by taking a half dose E and no C, why not??

Good question. I don't know. I personally think a lot of the benefit I
get from the EC stack is related to the E. I usually up my stack when I
need more stimulants and/or to treat my asthma or want an appetite
suppressant. I certainly don't note any unexpected increase in fat loss
when I up my stack, but the fact is that I exercise more and eat less
when I'm stacking, so the math works out looking like I lose more.

I find that 16 mg of E and 100 mg of C along with my morning coffee is a
pretty good maintenance dose in the morning for me. It works as an
appetite suppressant, and it gives me a little burst of energy that
says, "take this body to the gym and stand near heavy things". (Once
I'm in the gym standing near heavy things I know what to do.) I often
skip a second dose and I rarely take a third dose. I've never gone over
24 mg of E/ 200 mg C in any dose.

But like you, I find the thing I get addicted to is the C. I have to
ramp down from that a lot slower than the E gets ramped down.

Dally

Austin Newton Rice
September 16th 04, 11:33 PM
"Dally" > wrote in

> This guy came here saying "I don't know what it is, I don't know what it
> does, but give me some." He's exactly who the government was trying to
> protect by banning ephedra.

Actually, that's not what I said. I said I didn't know what EC stacking
was, then asked what it was and what it did. In other words, I said I
didn't know what it was and sought to "educate myself" by asking questions.
Then you responded by saying you hoped I would "educate myself". I'm
thinking either reading comprehension isn't your strong suit or you just
jumped the gun. In either case, your feedback was anything but helpful.

DrumLib
September 17th 04, 10:27 AM
> One thing I've never understood is that in the book "The New Diet Pills", Hobbs
> highlights a study that indicated that 10mg of Ephedrine was the second most
> effective dose next to the typical 20/200 E/C. Why is this dose never
> recommended?? Seems to me that the jitters and other issues are probably
> caused more by the huge (for me) dose caffeine and not the ephedrine. If one
> can get 80-90% of the benefits by taking a half dose E and no C, why not??

Those were just single dose studies. If you took ephedrine by itself
for any length of time, the thermogenic effect would end up getting
attenuated by phosphodiesterase and other feedback mechanisms.
Ephedrine, by itself, might work for a short term use, like cutting up
for a bodybuilding contest. Pasquali et al. (PMID: 8384185) got fairly
good results during the first 2 months of a 3 month study with 150mg
of ephedrine a day without caffeine. But for long term weight loss,
caffeine is required.

I've got illustrations that show why caffeine is important:
http://www.drumlib.com/dp/000002.htm

In addition to ensuring long term effectiveness, caffeine allows one
to use a lower dose of ephedrine. This synergistic effect made it
possible to normalize thermogenesis (which is subnormal in virtually
every type of obesity ever studied) with an acceptably small amount of
stimulation -- and the thermogenic effect is maintained without
increasing the dose. This discovery was the result of decades of
research and it set ephedrine/caffeine apart from amphetamine,
phentermine, etc. and offered real hope to people with genetic
obesity. Sadly, instead of receiving a Nobel Prize for this
spectacular accomplishment, the work of these pioneering obesity
scientists was horribly misrepresented by the FDA and the media, which
continually referred to thermogenic supplements as "amphetamine-like."
On the stupidity scale that's like telling diabetics not to take
insulin because it's just another "oat cure."

Live Long and Prosper!
DrumLib

DrumLib's Health Research Review
http://www.drumlib.com
Vitamin Price Comparison
(including price based on standardized dose)
http://www.drumlib.com/bestprice.htm
Disclaimer
http://www.drumlib.com/terms.htm

Dally
September 17th 04, 02:22 PM
Austin Newton Rice wrote:
> "Dally" > wrote in
>
>>This guy came here saying "I don't know what it is, I don't know what it
>>does, but give me some." He's exactly who the government was trying to
>>protect by banning ephedra.
>
> Actually, that's not what I said. I said I didn't know what EC stacking
> was, then asked what it was and what it did.

Here's your OP:

"Ok, my first question is, where can I buy an ephedra/ephedrine/whatever
it's called dietary supplement online? I live in the US, so I assume I
have to order from Canada. Any recommended sites? Also, what's the
recommended dosage?"

First question: where can I buy some. Second question, how should I
dose my own particular body - which must be based on [unknown to us]
characteristics of my body and [unknown to us] personal goals

> In other words, I said I
> didn't know what it was and sought to "educate myself" by asking questions.

Here are the words you actually used:

"Also, I did a search, but I haven't been able to figure out exactly
what people mean by EC stacking. Is it related to ephedra? Is it the
same thing as taking ephedra? What's it primarily supposed to help
with? Weight loss? Muscle gain? Neither?"

> Then you responded by saying you hoped I would "educate myself". I'm
> thinking either reading comprehension isn't your strong suit or you just
> jumped the gun. In either case, your feedback was anything but helpful.

Well, I'm not known for my reading comprehension. But in any case I was
responding primarily to your request to buy it before you had any idea
what it did. If you were here trying to "educate yourself" you would
have googled and read. What you did instead was ask "first question,
where can I buy [whatever]". That's what I was responding to.

How would *you* interpret it if someone came in asking where to buy
something that they don't know how to use?

Other people gave you more of an education. What do you think of what
you've learned? Have you been checked out lately and have some idea of
your blood pressure and your body's tolerance for stimulants? I've
discussed this twice with my medical practitioner: what about you, would
you do that? If not, why? Because you think you know better?

I'm sure you won't find this useful. But I tried.

Dally

Rural living is good living
September 17th 04, 05:23 PM
>This guy came here saying "I don't know what it is, I don't know what it
>does, but give me some." He's exactly who the government was trying to
>protect by banning ephedra.

If the government was trying to protect it would have used a warning. The
government wanted to eliminate freedom for all and the use of self-control by
banning it for everyone.

I'm from the government and I'm here to help you. Now give me all of your
money and remember to do as I tell you.

Tired of corrupt politicians and busybodies trying to run your life, family,
and property? Want real freedom?
Visit http://www.freestateproject.com

Rural living is good living
September 17th 04, 05:27 PM
>I find that 16 mg of E and 100 mg of C along with my morning coffee is a
>pretty good maintenance dose in the morning for me.
....
>But like you, I find the thing I get addicted to is the C.

It sounds like you are already addicted to C. Maybe you should turn yourself
in, get treatment, and then join one of those groups...

Tired of corrupt politicians and busybodies trying to run your life, family,
and property? Want real freedom?
Visit http://www.freestateproject.com

bc
September 17th 04, 06:13 PM
"Austin Newton Rice" > wrote in message et>...
> "Dally" > wrote in
>
> > This guy came here saying "I don't know what it is, I don't know what it
> > does, but give me some." He's exactly who the government was trying to
> > protect by banning ephedra.
>
> Actually, that's not what I said. I said I didn't know what EC stacking
> was, then asked what it was and what it did. In other words, I said I
> didn't know what it was and sought to "educate myself" by asking questions.
> Then you responded by saying you hoped I would "educate myself". I'm
> thinking either reading comprehension isn't your strong suit or you just
> jumped the gun. In either case, your feedback was anything but helpful.

Actually, what you said was,
"Ok, my first question is, where can I buy an
ephedra/ephedrine/whatever it's called dietary
supplement online? I live in the US, so I assume
I have to order from Canada. Any recommended sites?
Also, what's the recommended dosage?"
This implies you want to obtain the stuff.

Then, you said,
"Also, I did a search, but I haven't been able to figure
out exactly what people mean by EC stacking. Is it
related to ephedra? Is it the same thing as taking ephedra?
What's it primarily supposed to help with? Weight loss?
Muscle gain? Neither?"
This implies you don't know what E or EC does, what they're used for,
and that you don't know why you want them.

So, given all that, I'd say Dally's reaction wasn't all that
suprising, and her feedback, while a little edgy, was basically sound
advice. She's saying that you say you want this stuff but you don't
know what it does. Now, if you had just come in and asked "What's and
EC stack?" you would have received lots of **** for not googling this
group first, but you'd have got there eventually.

- bc

Pete
September 18th 04, 08:31 PM
Dally wrote:
> Lyle McDonald wrote:
>> Pete wrote:
>>> Dally wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hint: the bans were to protect people like you.
>
>>> Are you implying ephedrine use is unsafe?
>>>
>>
>> Any drug can be unsafe in the hands of a moron.
>>
>> The problem has less to do with the drug (generally) and more to do
>> with the moron (generally).
>>
>> Lyle
>
> What he said. My problem is that people start out taking 24 mg of E
> and 200 mg of C three times a day and get heart palpitations and
> jittery and can't sleep and utterly freak about the side effects and
> then try to get E outlawed because it - gasp - acts a stimulant!
>
> This guy came here saying "I don't know what it is, I don't know what
> it does, but give me some." He's exactly who the government was
> trying to protect by banning ephedra.
>
> I don't know if you can tell from this thread, by I do an EC stack. I
> find it helps me on several levels and I really appreciate having the
> option. I didn't care that they banned ephedra since I make my own
> stack, but I do mind that people give EC stacking such a perjorative
> meaning in everyday use because morons take it inadvisably.
>
> Dally

Ok. If you were an ephedrine alarmist, I was prepared to go into my "you
don't know what the f**k you're talking about, you freaking prohibitionist".
But since you're not, I won't.


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Pete
September 18th 04, 08:34 PM
Lyle McDonald wrote:
> Pete wrote:
>
>> Dally wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Hint: the bans were to protect people like you.
>>
>>
>>> Dally
>>
>>
>> Are you implying ephedrine use is unsafe?
>>
>
> Any drug can be unsafe in the hands of a moron.
>
> The problem has less to do with the drug (generally) and more to do
> with the moron (generally).
>
> Lyle

Yep. Including everyday drugs that most people (wrongly) don't even consider
drugs. Most of which are considerably more dangerous than ephedrine. I just
couldn't tell from Dally's post whether she endorsed ephedrine prohibition
or not. Evidently, not.


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Pete
September 18th 04, 08:57 PM
Rural living is good living wrote:
>> This guy came here saying "I don't know what it is, I don't know
>> what it does, but give me some." He's exactly who the government
>> was trying to protect by banning ephedra.
>
> If the government was trying to protect it would have used a warning.
> The government wanted to eliminate freedom for all and the use of
> self-control by banning it for everyone.
>
> I'm from the government and I'm here to help you. Now give me all
> of your money and remember to do as I tell you.

Although your post comes across as a little, well, paranoid, you're actually
on the right track. More accurately, the FDA banned the herbals as a result
of pressure from pharmaceutical manufacturers that have thermogenic
weight-loss drugs in the pipeline. Even the inflated, post-herbal ban, price
of ephedrine (around $0.15 per dose) is hugely threatening to the ability of
drug companies to market their own products.

Hence, the strategy to demonize ephedra concoctions. Sensationalize the
tragic death of a professional athlete, ignore the real causes of his death,
and rely on the tendency of people to blindly accept mass media reports as
incontrovertible fact; and the stage is set for a swift, no-muss no-mess
prohibition of an effective and cheap supplement. Accomplished with broad
popular support.


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Pete
September 18th 04, 09:01 PM
Dally wrote:
> Lyle McDonald wrote:
>> Pete wrote:
>>> Dally wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hint: the bans were to protect people like you.
>
>>> Are you implying ephedrine use is unsafe?
>>>
>>
>> Any drug can be unsafe in the hands of a moron.
>>
>> The problem has less to do with the drug (generally) and more to do
>> with the moron (generally).
>>
>> Lyle
>
> What he said. My problem is that people start out taking 24 mg of E
> and 200 mg of C three times a day and get heart palpitations and
> jittery and can't sleep and utterly freak about the side effects and
> then try to get E outlawed because it - gasp - acts a stimulant!
>
> This guy came here saying "I don't know what it is, I don't know what
> it does, but give me some." He's exactly who the government was
> trying to protect by banning ephedra.

One more thing, Dally. Although obviously stated as the reason, the FDA's
real reason for the ban was not to "protect" the unwitting.


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Dally
September 18th 04, 09:25 PM
Pete wrote:

> One more thing, Dally. Although obviously stated as the reason, the FDA's
> real reason for the ban was not to "protect" the unwitting.

I know that. I read the white paper they had the site that they were
implicitly citing as grounds for banning it. If you read the paper (a
reading comprehension level far above most Americans) you'll find that
it says that ECA stacks worked and had only minor side effects (expected
of stimulants.)

I don't disagree with you.

Dally