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Greg
September 15th 04, 01:12 PM
Hey everyone, I've been following this NG for about a month and I've
learned a ton. I've been lifting for about 2 months and I've pretty
much got all the exercises down. Anyway, my old routine had bench and
squats on the same day, and a couple other things wrong with it. So
here's my new split, if anyone wants to tell me if it's any good. I'm
only 19 so I feel the 4 day cycle will be fine since I tend to recover
pretty fast at my age, plus I'm pretty healthy, 5'11, 150. Anyways,
here we go:

day 1:
bench, tris, calf raises
day 2:
squats, deadlifts, forearms
day 3:
shoulders, bi's, back
day 4:
abs, jump rope

The only other question I had is if doing 5x6 of bench alternated with
5x6 of french press for tris is too much? I'd like to focus on some
size in my upper body so probably do a few extra sets. All my
exercises I go for the 5x6 range.

DRS
September 15th 04, 02:20 PM
"Greg" > wrote in message
om
> Hey everyone, I've been following this NG for about a month and I've
> learned a ton. I've been lifting for about 2 months and I've pretty
> much got all the exercises down.

If you've been reading in here you should know the consensus for beginners
is full body workouts three times per week. I must say I'm impressed that
you've mastered form so quickly. There are people here who have been
lifting for years who are still seeking to achieve that.

> Anyway, my old routine had bench and
> squats on the same day, and a couple other things wrong with it. So

What's wrong with squats and bench presses on the same day?

> here's my new split, if anyone wants to tell me if it's any good. I'm
> only 19 so I feel the 4 day cycle will be fine since I tend to recover
> pretty fast at my age, plus I'm pretty healthy, 5'11, 150. Anyways,
> here we go:
>
> day 1:
> bench, tris, calf raises
> day 2:
> squats, deadlifts, forearms
> day 3:
> shoulders, bi's, back
> day 4:
> abs, jump rope

Forget about splits. They're for much more advanced lifters than you. And
by the time you're ready for them you'll know what's wrong with that split.

> The only other question I had is if doing 5x6 of bench alternated with
> 5x6 of french press for tris is too much? I'd like to focus on some
> size in my upper body so probably do a few extra sets. All my
> exercises I go for the 5x6 range.

Why? There's good reason why beginners are usually advised to do 2-3 sets
of 8-12 reps.

--

"Self-delusion as a coping tool has always been a fairly useful strategy for
me."
Dally

bc
September 15th 04, 08:54 PM
"DRS" > wrote in message >...
> "Greg" > wrote in message
> om
> > Hey everyone, I've been following this NG for about a month and I've
> > learned a ton. I've been lifting for about 2 months and I've pretty
> > much got all the exercises down.
>
> If you've been reading in here you should know the consensus for beginners
> is full body workouts three times per week. I must say I'm impressed that
> you've mastered form so quickly. There are people here who have been
> lifting for years who are still seeking to achieve that.

That was my reaction too.

>
> > Anyway, my old routine had bench and
> > squats on the same day, and a couple other things wrong with it. So
>
> What's wrong with squats and bench presses on the same day?
>
> > here's my new split, if anyone wants to tell me if it's any good. I'm
> > only 19 so I feel the 4 day cycle will be fine since I tend to recover
> > pretty fast at my age, plus I'm pretty healthy, 5'11, 150. Anyways,
> > here we go:
> >
> > day 1:
> > bench, tris, calf raises
> > day 2:
> > squats, deadlifts, forearms
> > day 3:
> > shoulders, bi's, back
> > day 4:
> > abs, jump rope
>
> Forget about splits. They're for much more advanced lifters than you. And
> by the time you're ready for them you'll know what's wrong with that split.

Heh, that got me thinking. By the time I had worked out for several
months, I learned enough to evaluate alternatives for myself much more
acurately. You really should put in a few more months on a full body
routine.

>
> > The only other question I had is if doing 5x6 of bench alternated with
> > 5x6 of french press for tris is too much? I'd like to focus on some
> > size in my upper body so probably do a few extra sets. All my
> > exercises I go for the 5x6 range.
>
> Why? There's good reason why beginners are usually advised to do 2-3 sets
> of 8-12 reps.

DRS nailed it. I messed around with some goofy splits too early and
found it to be distracting and ultimately less motivating. I settled
on a full body routine which I have modified here and there, but which
I still find to be the right plan for me generally.

- bc

Greg
September 15th 04, 09:18 PM
Well my real problem is that the squats leave me so tired it's tough
to have tons of energy left to go all out on bench press. I read
somewhere (maybe here, can't remember i've been reading so much) that
you shouldn't work 2 major muscle groups in the same day, especially
with the compound exercises like Squat, bench...i guess its a little
bad to have deadlifts and squats the same day, but other than that
care to elaborate what's wrong with this? I feel I'm ready for a
split. As for the reps, I'm just going on my friends and what I've
seen get results. I've heard arguments for the 5-6 and the 10-12 range
but it seems 5-6 will get faster results. Anyways, whats your advice
on retooling the split then?


"DRS" > wrote in message >...
> "Greg" > wrote in message
> om
> > Hey everyone, I've been following this NG for about a month and I've
> > learned a ton. I've been lifting for about 2 months and I've pretty
> > much got all the exercises down.
>
> If you've been reading in here you should know the consensus for beginners
> is full body workouts three times per week. I must say I'm impressed that
> you've mastered form so quickly. There are people here who have been
> lifting for years who are still seeking to achieve that.
>
> > Anyway, my old routine had bench and
> > squats on the same day, and a couple other things wrong with it. So
>
> What's wrong with squats and bench presses on the same day?
>
> > here's my new split, if anyone wants to tell me if it's any good. I'm
> > only 19 so I feel the 4 day cycle will be fine since I tend to recover
> > pretty fast at my age, plus I'm pretty healthy, 5'11, 150. Anyways,
> > here we go:
> >
> > day 1:
> > bench, tris, calf raises
> > day 2:
> > squats, deadlifts, forearms
> > day 3:
> > shoulders, bi's, back
> > day 4:
> > abs, jump rope
>
> Forget about splits. They're for much more advanced lifters than you. And
> by the time you're ready for them you'll know what's wrong with that split.
>
> > The only other question I had is if doing 5x6 of bench alternated with
> > 5x6 of french press for tris is too much? I'd like to focus on some
> > size in my upper body so probably do a few extra sets. All my
> > exercises I go for the 5x6 range.
>
> Why? There's good reason why beginners are usually advised to do 2-3 sets
> of 8-12 reps.

Anna Martelli Ravenscroft
September 16th 04, 08:56 AM
On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 13:18:46 -0700, Greg wrote:

> Well my real problem

.... is that you're top posting. I went right by this the first time and
had to go back to find it. mfw standard is bottom-posting/inline posting.
Preferably with judicious snippage.

> is that the squats leave me so tired it's tough to have tons of energy
> left to go all out on bench press.

Understood. Squats and deadlifts can do that. So you could have light
squat days/heavy bench and heavy squat/light bench days and you can still
get a full body workout. Leave your ego in the locker-room and stick to
your 3 sets of 8-12 rep range and you may feel less wiped out after squats.

> I read
> somewhere (maybe here, can't remember i've been reading so much) that
> you shouldn't work 2 major muscle groups in the same day, especially
> with the compound exercises like Squat, bench...i guess its a little bad
> to have deadlifts and squats the same day, but other than that care to
> elaborate what's wrong with this? I feel I'm ready for a split. As for
> the reps, I'm just going on my friends and what I've seen get results.
> I've heard arguments for the 5-6 and the 10-12 range but it seems 5-6
> will get faster results.

Once you've gotten your body adjusted to lifting, 5-6 may be a good
range. But FIRST, you have to do the conditioning work. The reason for the
8-12 rep range is to give your connective tissues (tendons, ligaments, and
such) time to get accustomed to the weights - minimize your chance of that
kind of injury. Also - concentrating on form is easier if you're not
working at a high enough weight that you can barely eke out 5-6. Once
you've gotten a bit more time under your belt (consistent workout for a
couple months?), you could go down to 6-8 for a month or so(?), and then
after that, start going for the lower rep ranges...

I'm sure the oldpharts, erm, I mean, experienced folks, hereabouts can
give you better advice based on their knowledge and experience. I know
just enough to realize how much I don't know...

> Anyways, whats your advice on retooling the split then?

Trust me - you don't know enough yet to design your own split. If you
REALLY want/need to do a split routine, then I'd suggest a simple
Upperbody/Lowerbody split. Find good routines, ready-made, on Mistress
Krista's site: www.stumptuous.com/weights.html

Good luck.
Anna

DRS
September 16th 04, 01:25 PM
"Anna Martelli Ravenscroft" > wrote in message

> On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 13:18:46 -0700, Greg wrote:
>
>> Well my real problem
>
> ... is that you're top posting. I went right by this the first time
> and had to go back to find it. mfw standard is bottom-posting/inline

Usenet standard.

> posting. Preferably with judicious snippage.

Ah, now there's the MFW weakness.

>> is that the squats leave me so tired it's tough to have tons of
>> energy left to go all out on bench press.
>
> Understood. Squats and deadlifts can do that. So you could have light
> squat days/heavy bench and heavy squat/light bench days and you can
> still get a full body workout. Leave your ego in the locker-room and
> stick to your 3 sets of 8-12 rep range and you may feel less wiped
> out after squats.

The rule of thumb seems to be alternate squats and deadlifts. There'll
always be someone who does both on the same day but because they both hit so
much of the body hard you have to be very careful about not ending up
overtraining. Anyway, I was responding to the ridiculous idea that you
musn't squat and bench on the same day. Maybe if he was a more advanced
lifter who had a very heavy lower body day then it could make sense but not
for a beginner. Squats/DL hit least the areas BP hits hardest so it's not
like there's significant overlap going on.

>> I read
>> somewhere (maybe here, can't remember i've been reading so much) that
>> you shouldn't work 2 major muscle groups in the same day, especially
>> with the compound exercises like Squat, bench...i guess its a little

Maybe, *maybe* that's true for more advanced lifters. It's certainly not
true for beginners.

>> bad to have deadlifts and squats the same day, but other than that
>> care to elaborate what's wrong with this? I feel I'm ready for a
>> split. As for the reps, I'm just going on my friends and what I've
>> seen get results. I've heard arguments for the 5-6 and the 10-12
>> range but it seems 5-6 will get faster results.
>
> Once you've gotten your body adjusted to lifting, 5-6 may be a good
> range. But FIRST, you have to do the conditioning work. The reason
> for the 8-12 rep range is to give your connective tissues (tendons,
> ligaments, and such) time to get accustomed to the weights - minimize
> your chance of that kind of injury.

Thank you! And it's not just connective tissues, it's bone density and -
*most* important - your nervous system has to adapt.

> Also - concentrating on form is
> easier if you're not working at a high enough weight that you can
> barely eke out 5-6. Once you've gotten a bit more time under your
> belt (consistent workout for a couple months?), you could go down to
> 6-8 for a month or so(?), and then after that, start going for the
> lower rep ranges...

I'd say 6 months minimum before he should start thinking about focussing on
myofibrillar hypertrophy.

> I'm sure the oldpharts, erm, I mean, experienced folks, hereabouts can
> give you better advice based on their knowledge and experience. I know
> just enough to realize how much I don't know...
>
>> Anyways, whats your advice on retooling the split then?
>
> Trust me - you don't know enough yet to design your own split. If you
> REALLY want/need to do a split routine, then I'd suggest a simple
> Upperbody/Lowerbody split. Find good routines, ready-made, on Mistress
> Krista's site: www.stumptuous.com/weights.html

An upper/lower body split twice per week on say, a M-T/T-F routine, can be
very effective but it can also add up to a lot of work.

--

"Self-delusion as a coping tool has always been a fairly useful strategy for
me."
Dally