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bleh
September 15th 04, 06:36 PM
I am starting out on the Sheiko beginner routine located at:
http://www.zyworld.com/powerlifting/sheikotraining1.htm.

I have completed the first day just as it is stated and I am more sore
than I have ever been in my life. I feel as if I have been savagely
beaten in the hamstrings with a crowbar. It's wednesday now and I'm
supposed to start dealifting now. Considering how sore I am, should I
workout? I'm sure I would be able to tough it out, but I'm wondering
if it would be counter productive to do so. I've heard that Sheiko
pushes you to the point of overtraining and then through waveloading
principles, eases back. What should I do?

DRS
September 15th 04, 06:45 PM
"bleh" > wrote in message
om
> I am starting out on the Sheiko beginner routine located at:
> http://www.zyworld.com/powerlifting/sheikotraining1.htm.
>
> I have completed the first day just as it is stated and I am more sore
> than I have ever been in my life. I feel as if I have been savagely
> beaten in the hamstrings with a crowbar. It's wednesday now and I'm
> supposed to start dealifting now. Considering how sore I am, should I
> workout? I'm sure I would be able to tough it out, but I'm wondering
> if it would be counter productive to do so. I've heard that Sheiko
> pushes you to the point of overtraining and then through waveloading
> principles, eases back. What should I do?

If it's only DOMS then work through it. You'll be surprised how quickly it
disappears. OTOH, if it's injury pain then rest.

--

"Self-delusion as a coping tool has always been a fairly useful strategy for
me."
Dally

Hugh Beyer
September 15th 04, 06:50 PM
(bleh) wrote in
om:

> I am starting out on the Sheiko beginner routine located at:
> http://www.zyworld.com/powerlifting/sheikotraining1.htm.
>
> I have completed the first day just as it is stated and I am more sore
> than I have ever been in my life. I feel as if I have been savagely
> beaten in the hamstrings with a crowbar. It's wednesday now and I'm
> supposed to start dealifting now. Considering how sore I am, should I
> workout? I'm sure I would be able to tough it out, but I'm wondering
> if it would be counter productive to do so. I've heard that Sheiko
> pushes you to the point of overtraining and then through waveloading
> principles, eases back. What should I do?

I've gone through a few rounds of that program (just recently started one,
in fact), and this is the way it always feels. As long as it's not injury
pain--just normal soreness in the muscle body--keep at it. It will lessen
over time.

Hugh


--
One puppy had its dewclaws removed in the creation of this post, but for
reasons of hygene and it really doesn't hurt them at all.

Keith Hobman
September 15th 04, 08:30 PM
In article >,
(bleh) wrote:

> I am starting out on the Sheiko beginner routine located at:
> http://www.zyworld.com/powerlifting/sheikotraining1.htm.
>
> I have completed the first day just as it is stated and I am more sore
> than I have ever been in my life. I feel as if I have been savagely
> beaten in the hamstrings with a crowbar. It's wednesday now and I'm
> supposed to start dealifting now. Considering how sore I am, should I
> workout? I'm sure I would be able to tough it out, but I'm wondering
> if it would be counter productive to do so. I've heard that Sheiko
> pushes you to the point of overtraining and then through waveloading
> principles, eases back. What should I do?

Even with a so-called beginner program you have to use some sense. If you
have been doing nothing near that level of volume it takes some time to
build up to it. FWIW - going from Westside to Sheiko took me about six
months to get to the CMS level.

I would analyze your previous training and see roughly where you were at.
Then start adding sets gradually.

--
My advice and opinions reflect my personality and goals.
I have no desire to cover my ass and all the bases with
disclaimers about who this is good for and who it is not
good for. So take everything I say with a grain of salt.

Lyle McDonald
September 15th 04, 08:36 PM
Keith Hobman wrote:

> In article >,
> (bleh) wrote:
>
>
>>I am starting out on the Sheiko beginner routine located at:
>>http://www.zyworld.com/powerlifting/sheikotraining1.htm.
>>
>>I have completed the first day just as it is stated and I am more sore
>>than I have ever been in my life. I feel as if I have been savagely
>>beaten in the hamstrings with a crowbar. It's wednesday now and I'm
>>supposed to start dealifting now. Considering how sore I am, should I
>>workout? I'm sure I would be able to tough it out, but I'm wondering
>>if it would be counter productive to do so. I've heard that Sheiko
>>pushes you to the point of overtraining and then through waveloading
>>principles, eases back. What should I do?
>
>
> Even with a so-called beginner program you have to use some sense. If you
> have been doing nothing near that level of volume it takes some time to
> build up to it. FWIW - going from Westside to Sheiko took me about six
> months to get to the CMS level.
>
> I would analyze your previous training and see roughly where you were at.
> Then start adding sets gradually.

Am I the only one who senses irony here?

Lyle

Keith Hobman
September 15th 04, 08:45 PM
In article >, Lyle McDonald
> wrote:

> Keith Hobman wrote:
>
> > In article >,
> > (bleh) wrote:
> >
> >
> >>I am starting out on the Sheiko beginner routine located at:
> >>http://www.zyworld.com/powerlifting/sheikotraining1.htm.
> >>
> >>I have completed the first day just as it is stated and I am more sore
> >>than I have ever been in my life. I feel as if I have been savagely
> >>beaten in the hamstrings with a crowbar. It's wednesday now and I'm
> >>supposed to start dealifting now. Considering how sore I am, should I
> >>workout? I'm sure I would be able to tough it out, but I'm wondering
> >>if it would be counter productive to do so. I've heard that Sheiko
> >>pushes you to the point of overtraining and then through waveloading
> >>principles, eases back. What should I do?
> >
> >
> > Even with a so-called beginner program you have to use some sense. If you
> > have been doing nothing near that level of volume it takes some time to
> > build up to it. FWIW - going from Westside to Sheiko took me about six
> > months to get to the CMS level.
> >
> > I would analyze your previous training and see roughly where you were at.
> > Then start adding sets gradually.
>
> Am I the only one who senses irony here?

Consistency, bro. Even in my other post I was saying 'start with 100 reps
at 50% and higher a week'. That is _not_ really high volume.

Or you could just say "Mebbe I'm getting through!"

Or you might realize I like to pick an argument so I can get the other
person thinking and sometimes I'll play the devil's advocate for a reason.
It is a good way to learn.

My own overall volume around 300 (over 50%) in the powerlifts per week
myself. I don't really spend that much time in the gym.

Speaking of which - I'm going to have to start limiting my time on here.
I'm basically running out of time. So I'm looking forward to seeing y'all
in Nevada.

I've got to start focusing on my fall classes. Anatomy is killing me with
the memorization.

--
My advice and opinions reflect my personality and goals.
I have no desire to cover my ass and all the bases with
disclaimers about who this is good for and who it is not
good for. So take everything I say with a grain of salt.

Lyle McDonald
September 15th 04, 08:47 PM
Keith Hobman wrote:

> In article >, Lyle McDonald
> > wrote:
>
>
>>Keith Hobman wrote:
>>
>>
>>>In article >,
(bleh) wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>I am starting out on the Sheiko beginner routine located at:
>>>>http://www.zyworld.com/powerlifting/sheikotraining1.htm.
>>>>
>>>>I have completed the first day just as it is stated and I am more sore
>>>>than I have ever been in my life. I feel as if I have been savagely
>>>>beaten in the hamstrings with a crowbar. It's wednesday now and I'm
>>>>supposed to start dealifting now. Considering how sore I am, should I
>>>>workout? I'm sure I would be able to tough it out, but I'm wondering
>>>>if it would be counter productive to do so. I've heard that Sheiko
>>>>pushes you to the point of overtraining and then through waveloading
>>>>principles, eases back. What should I do?
>>>
>>>
>>>Even with a so-called beginner program you have to use some sense. If you
>>>have been doing nothing near that level of volume it takes some time to
>>>build up to it. FWIW - going from Westside to Sheiko took me about six
>>>months to get to the CMS level.
>>>
>>>I would analyze your previous training and see roughly where you were at.
>>>Then start adding sets gradually.
>>
>>Am I the only one who senses irony here?
>
>
> Consistency, bro. Even in my other post I was saying 'start with 100 reps
> at 50% and higher a week'. That is _not_ really high volume.

yes and my point was that, without extensive qualifiers on such
training, folks tend to treat the laid out programs as sacrosanct.

Which is what seemed to happen here. So Sheiko beginner says "Do this"
and people "Do that" without any consideration (not that they would know
to think about such) for what they might be getting themselves into.


> I've got to start focusing on my fall classes. Anatomy is killing me with
> the memorization.

It's a bitch, I agree. Your background in training should help a lot in
general. Memorizing attachments was the main hassle for me and I've
forgotten most of it as useless.

Lyle

Keith Hobman
September 15th 04, 09:10 PM
In article >, Lyle McDonald
> wrote:

> Keith Hobman wrote:
>
> > In article >, Lyle McDonald
> > > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Keith Hobman wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>In article >,
> (bleh) wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>I am starting out on the Sheiko beginner routine located at:
> >>>>http://www.zyworld.com/powerlifting/sheikotraining1.htm.
> >>>>
> >>>>I have completed the first day just as it is stated and I am more sore
> >>>>than I have ever been in my life. I feel as if I have been savagely
> >>>>beaten in the hamstrings with a crowbar. It's wednesday now and I'm
> >>>>supposed to start dealifting now. Considering how sore I am, should I
> >>>>workout? I'm sure I would be able to tough it out, but I'm wondering
> >>>>if it would be counter productive to do so. I've heard that Sheiko
> >>>>pushes you to the point of overtraining and then through waveloading
> >>>>principles, eases back. What should I do?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Even with a so-called beginner program you have to use some sense. If you
> >>>have been doing nothing near that level of volume it takes some time to
> >>>build up to it. FWIW - going from Westside to Sheiko took me about six
> >>>months to get to the CMS level.
> >>>
> >>>I would analyze your previous training and see roughly where you were at.
> >>>Then start adding sets gradually.
> >>
> >>Am I the only one who senses irony here?
> >
> >
> > Consistency, bro. Even in my other post I was saying 'start with 100 reps
> > at 50% and higher a week'. That is _not_ really high volume.
>
> yes and my point was that, without extensive qualifiers on such
> training, folks tend to treat the laid out programs as sacrosanct.
>
> Which is what seemed to happen here. So Sheiko beginner says "Do this"
> and people "Do that" without any consideration (not that they would know
> to think about such) for what they might be getting themselves into.
>
>
> > I've got to start focusing on my fall classes. Anatomy is killing me with
> > the memorization.
>
> It's a bitch, I agree. Your background in training should help a lot in
> general. Memorizing attachments was the main hassle for me and I've
> forgotten most of it as useless.

Yeah - exactly what I was thinking.

Plus my injuries from all the sports. The girl next to me couldn't figure
out how I could point out so quickly the lower biceps attachments. So I
rolled up my sleeve and showed her the scars...

:^)

--
My advice and opinions reflect my personality and goals.
I have no desire to cover my ass and all the bases with
disclaimers about who this is good for and who it is not
good for. So take everything I say with a grain of salt.

Lee Michaels
September 15th 04, 09:21 PM
"Keith Hobman" wrote
>
> Plus my injuries from all the sports. The girl next to me couldn't figure
> out how I could point out so quickly the lower biceps attachments. So I
> rolled up my sleeve and showed her the scars...
>
Big hunky Keith shows off his battle scars.

John HUDSON
September 15th 04, 09:29 PM
On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 20:21:03 GMT, "Lee Michaels"
> wrote:

>
>"Keith Hobman" wrote
>>
>> Plus my injuries from all the sports. The girl next to me couldn't figure
>> out how I could point out so quickly the lower biceps attachments. So I
>> rolled up my sleeve and showed her the scars...
>>
>Big hunky Keith shows off his battle scars.

You make sure he hasn't got an "upset tummy" Dopey, or you'll get a
nose full!! ;o)

Keith Hobman
September 15th 04, 09:30 PM
In article <[email protected]_s02>, "Lee Michaels"
> wrote:

> "Keith Hobman" wrote
> >
> > Plus my injuries from all the sports. The girl next to me couldn't figure
> > out how I could point out so quickly the lower biceps attachments. So I
> > rolled up my sleeve and showed her the scars...
> >
> Big hunky Keith shows off his battle scars.

You mispelled 'old gray'. HTH.

--
My advice and opinions reflect my personality and goals.
I have no desire to cover my ass and all the bases with
disclaimers about who this is good for and who it is not
good for. So take everything I say with a grain of salt.

Lyle McDonald
September 15th 04, 09:30 PM
Lee Michaels wrote:

> "Keith Hobman" wrote
>
>>Plus my injuries from all the sports. The girl next to me couldn't figure
>>out how I could point out so quickly the lower biceps attachments. So I
>>rolled up my sleeve and showed her the scars...
>>
>
> Big hunky Keith shows off his battle scars.
>
>
>

The extreme code
1. Bones heal
2. Chicks dig scars
3. Pain is temporary
4. Glory is forever

Lyle

Joe Laughlin
September 16th 04, 03:10 AM
bleh wrote:
> I am starting out on the Sheiko beginner routine located
> at:
> http://www.zyworld.com/powerlifting/sheikotraining1.htm.
>
> I have completed the first day just as it is stated and I
> am more sore than I have ever been in my life. I feel as
> if I have been savagely beaten in the hamstrings with a
> crowbar. It's wednesday now and I'm supposed to start
> dealifting now. Considering how sore I am, should I
> workout? I'm sure I would be able to tough it out, but
> I'm wondering if it would be counter productive to do so.
> I've heard that Sheiko pushes you to the point of
> overtraining and then through waveloading principles,
> eases back. What should I do?

Interesting, but intensity percentages aren't noted in a lot of the
exercises. Or am I misreading it?

Keith Hobman
September 16th 04, 04:59 PM
In article >, "Joe Laughlin"
> wrote:

> bleh wrote:
> > I am starting out on the Sheiko beginner routine located
> > at:
> > http://www.zyworld.com/powerlifting/sheikotraining1.htm.
> >
> > I have completed the first day just as it is stated and I
> > am more sore than I have ever been in my life. I feel as
> > if I have been savagely beaten in the hamstrings with a
> > crowbar. It's wednesday now and I'm supposed to start
> > dealifting now. Considering how sore I am, should I
> > workout? I'm sure I would be able to tough it out, but
> > I'm wondering if it would be counter productive to do so.
> > I've heard that Sheiko pushes you to the point of
> > overtraining and then through waveloading principles,
> > eases back. What should I do?
>
> Interesting, but intensity percentages aren't noted in a lot of the
> exercises. Or am I misreading it?

There should be %'s based on competition maxes.

--
My advice and opinions reflect my personality and goals.
I have no desire to cover my ass and all the bases with
disclaimers about who this is good for and who it is not
good for. So take everything I say with a grain of salt.

Hugh Beyer
September 16th 04, 06:29 PM
(Keith Hobman) wrote in news:[email protected]
192.168.0.48:

> In article >, "Joe Laughlin"
> > wrote:
>
>> bleh wrote:
>> > I am starting out on the Sheiko beginner routine located
>> > at:
>> > http://www.zyworld.com/powerlifting/sheikotraining1.htm.
>> >
>> > I have completed the first day just as it is stated and I
>> > am more sore than I have ever been in my life. I feel as
>> > if I have been savagely beaten in the hamstrings with a
>> > crowbar. It's wednesday now and I'm supposed to start
>> > dealifting now. Considering how sore I am, should I
>> > workout? I'm sure I would be able to tough it out, but
>> > I'm wondering if it would be counter productive to do so.
>> > I've heard that Sheiko pushes you to the point of
>> > overtraining and then through waveloading principles,
>> > eases back. What should I do?
>>
>> Interesting, but intensity percentages aren't noted in a lot of the
>> exercises. Or am I misreading it?
>
> There should be %'s based on competition maxes.
>

I think he's referring to the assistance exercises, where Sheiko says do
5x5 but not how hard.

I just do whatever feels reasonable, knowing there's 5 of those sets to
come. I watch what's been happening over the last few workouts and push
the weight or don't depending on how I feel.

Also, I don't do a lot of Sheiko's assistance exercises. I replace them
with pullups, rows, reverse and lateral flyes, and the shoulder health
exercises from a link I've now lost :(

The Sheiko program is totally focused on the PL lifts and assistance for
them. I use the auxilary exercises to *balance* them.

Hugh


--
One puppy had its dewclaws removed in the creation of this post, but for
reasons of hygene and it really doesn't hurt them at all.

Joe Laughlin
September 16th 04, 07:28 PM
Hugh Beyer wrote:
> (Keith Hobman) wrote in
> news:[email protected] 192.168.0.48:
>
>> In article >, "Joe Laughlin"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> bleh wrote:
>>>> I am starting out on the Sheiko beginner routine
>>>> located at:
>>>> http://www.zyworld.com/powerlifting/sheikotraining1.htm.
>>>>
>>>> I have completed the first day just as it is stated
>>>> and I am more sore than I have ever been in my life. I
>>>> feel as if I have been savagely beaten in the
>>>> hamstrings with a crowbar. It's wednesday now and I'm
>>>> supposed to start dealifting now. Considering how sore
>>>> I am, should I workout? I'm sure I would be able to
>>>> tough it out, but I'm wondering if it would be counter
>>>> productive to do so. I've heard that Sheiko pushes you
>>>> to the point of overtraining and then through
>>>> waveloading principles, eases back. What should I do?
>>>
>>> Interesting, but intensity percentages aren't noted in
>>> a lot of the exercises. Or am I misreading it?
>>
>> There should be %'s based on competition maxes.
>>
>
> I think he's referring to the assistance exercises, where
> Sheiko says do 5x5 but not how hard.

Yeah, I was.

>
> I just do whatever feels reasonable, knowing there's 5 of
> those sets to come. I watch what's been happening over
> the last few workouts and push the weight or don't
> depending on how I feel.
>
> Also, I don't do a lot of Sheiko's assistance exercises.
> I replace them with pullups, rows, reverse and lateral
> flyes, and the shoulder health exercises from a link I've
> now lost :(
>
> The Sheiko program is totally focused on the PL lifts and
> assistance for them. I use the auxilary exercises to
> *balance* them.
>
> Hugh

Thanks for the info.

John Hanson
September 17th 04, 03:28 AM
On 15 Sep 2004 10:36:12 -0700, (bleh) wrote in
misc.fitness.weights:

>I am starting out on the Sheiko beginner routine located at:
>http://www.zyworld.com/powerlifting/sheikotraining1.htm.
>
>I have completed the first day just as it is stated and I am more sore
>than I have ever been in my life. I feel as if I have been savagely
>beaten in the hamstrings with a crowbar. It's wednesday now and I'm
>supposed to start dealifting now. Considering how sore I am, should I
>workout? I'm sure I would be able to tough it out, but I'm wondering
>if it would be counter productive to do so. I've heard that Sheiko
>pushes you to the point of overtraining and then through waveloading
>principles, eases back. What should I do?

Soreness is usually a sign of undertraining, not overtraining. Give
it a week.

Hugh Beyer
September 17th 04, 12:28 PM
John Hanson > wrote in
:

> On 15 Sep 2004 10:36:12 -0700, (bleh) wrote in
> misc.fitness.weights:
>
>>I am starting out on the Sheiko beginner routine located at:
>>http://www.zyworld.com/powerlifting/sheikotraining1.htm.
>>
>>I have completed the first day just as it is stated and I am more sore
>>than I have ever been in my life. I feel as if I have been savagely
>>beaten in the hamstrings with a crowbar. It's wednesday now and I'm
>>supposed to start dealifting now. Considering how sore I am, should I
>>workout? I'm sure I would be able to tough it out, but I'm wondering
>>if it would be counter productive to do so. I've heard that Sheiko
>>pushes you to the point of overtraining and then through waveloading
>>principles, eases back. What should I do?
>
> Soreness is usually a sign of undertraining, not overtraining. Give
> it a week.
>

I think in Sheiko, soreness is a sign of your body saying "!?#!WTF just
happened to me?"

BTW, to the OP-- you sohould read the thread "Training for strength rather
than size", especially all the posts by Keith Hobman. Good stuff in there
about how to manage Sheiko type routines, which can be overly rigid.

Also, when I started this he suggested eliminating some of the strings of
sets to help me ramp up. Apparently Sheiko thinks you can go to the gym
twice in a day, and is really thinking that the second set of squats/BP/DL
are happening in a later workout. He suggested just eliminating them at
first.

I find I can get through the whole thing plus assistance in 70-80 minutes,
but it's a push.

Hugh


--
One puppy had its dewclaws removed in the creation of this post, but for
reasons of hygene and it really doesn't hurt them at all.

Richard Smith
September 21st 04, 12:11 AM
"Lyle McDonald" > wrote in message
...
> Lee Michaels wrote:
>
> > "Keith Hobman" wrote
> >
> >>Plus my injuries from all the sports. The girl next to me couldn't
figure
> >>out how I could point out so quickly the lower biceps attachments. So I
> >>rolled up my sleeve and showed her the scars...
> >>
> >
> > Big hunky Keith shows off his battle scars.
> >
> >
> >
>
> The extreme code
> 1. Bones heal
> 2. Chicks dig scars
> 3. Pain is temporary
> 4. Glory is forever
>
> Lyle

Hmmm...maybe I should have that painted on my car. Oops, you misspelled
"stupidity" as "Glory".

Richard
>

Seth Breidbart
September 23rd 04, 02:14 AM
In article >,
Keith Hobman > wrote:

>Plus my injuries from all the sports. The girl next to me couldn't figure
>out how I could point out so quickly the lower biceps attachments. So I
>rolled up my sleeve and showed her the scars...

So bringing your arms into the test would be considered cheating.

Seth
--
You have a remarkable lack of empathy. -- Penn Jillette (to me)