PDA

View Full Version : deca and testosterone production


spodosaurus
September 18th 04, 06:05 PM
Okay. I'm only asking here because I have 5 days to learn what I need
to, and I've seen this discussed here before. I'm in the process of
trying to weed through a lot of crap information.

My situation is this: in 5 days I'm going to start having weekly
injections of deca. No, this isn't for bodybuilding. It's a last ditch
effort to try and keep my blood counts up. By up, I don't mean in the
normal range, I mean up enough that I don't end up bleeding out or
getting an interesting case of septicaemia. What I need to know is how
to keep my endogenous testosterone going and how to prevent adverse side
effects of deca (health wise and in terms of gyno and such...I don't
even know what some of the side effects are). Unless a bone marrow donor
is identified, I'll be on this for the rest of my (short) life (assuming
it even helps, we don't know, but we've tried everything else).

TIA,

Ari


--
spammage trappage: replace fishies_ with yahoo

Peter Webb
September 18th 04, 06:22 PM
If you have a medical problem (and I gather you have a serious one) that may
benefit from steroids then I am sure you can get a Doctor to prescribe them.
Even better, get your Doctor to refer you to an endicrinologist who will add
estrogen supressesors (Chlomid?) so you don't grow breasts.


"spodosaurus" > wrote in message
...
> Okay. I'm only asking here because I have 5 days to learn what I need
> to, and I've seen this discussed here before. I'm in the process of
> trying to weed through a lot of crap information.
>
> My situation is this: in 5 days I'm going to start having weekly
> injections of deca. No, this isn't for bodybuilding. It's a last ditch
> effort to try and keep my blood counts up. By up, I don't mean in the
> normal range, I mean up enough that I don't end up bleeding out or
> getting an interesting case of septicaemia. What I need to know is how
> to keep my endogenous testosterone going and how to prevent adverse side
> effects of deca (health wise and in terms of gyno and such...I don't
> even know what some of the side effects are). Unless a bone marrow donor
> is identified, I'll be on this for the rest of my (short) life (assuming
> it even helps, we don't know, but we've tried everything else).
>
> TIA,
>
> Ari
>
>
> --
> spammage trappage: replace fishies_ with yahoo

Mick R.
September 18th 04, 11:04 PM
"Peter Webb" > wrote in message
u...
> If you have a medical problem (and I gather you have a serious one) that
may
> benefit from steroids then I am sure you can get a Doctor to prescribe
them.
> Even better, get your Doctor to refer you to an endicrinologist who will
add
> estrogen supressesors (Chlomid?) so you don't grow breasts.
>
But then he'll miss out on having his own boobies to keep him company on
those long lonely nights.

>
> "spodosaurus" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Okay. I'm only asking here because I have 5 days to learn what I need
> > to, and I've seen this discussed here before. I'm in the process of
> > trying to weed through a lot of crap information.
> >
> > My situation is this: in 5 days I'm going to start having weekly
> > injections of deca. No, this isn't for bodybuilding. It's a last ditch
> > effort to try and keep my blood counts up. By up, I don't mean in the
> > normal range, I mean up enough that I don't end up bleeding out or
> > getting an interesting case of septicaemia. What I need to know is how
> > to keep my endogenous testosterone going and how to prevent adverse side
> > effects of deca (health wise and in terms of gyno and such...I don't
> > even know what some of the side effects are). Unless a bone marrow donor
> > is identified, I'll be on this for the rest of my (short) life (assuming
> > it even helps, we don't know, but we've tried everything else).
> >
> > TIA,
> >
> > Ari
> >
> >
> > --
> > spammage trappage: replace fishies_ with yahoo
>
>

Dally
September 19th 04, 12:42 AM
spodosaurus wrote:
> Okay. I'm only asking here because I have 5 days to learn what I need
> to, and I've seen this discussed here before. I'm in the process of
> trying to weed through a lot of crap information.
>
> My situation is this: in 5 days I'm going to start having weekly
> injections of deca. No, this isn't for bodybuilding. It's a last ditch
> effort to try and keep my blood counts up. By up, I don't mean in the
> normal range, I mean up enough that I don't end up bleeding out or
> getting an interesting case of septicaemia. What I need to know is how
> to keep my endogenous testosterone going and how to prevent adverse side
> effects of deca (health wise and in terms of gyno and such...I don't
> even know what some of the side effects are). Unless a bone marrow donor
> is identified, I'll be on this for the rest of my (short) life (assuming
> it even helps, we don't know, but we've tried everything else).
>
> TIA,
>
> Ari

Wow, this sounds scary. Being the kind of person who prays, I'll send
some your way.

I understand why you want to do the deca with the least damage, but at
the moment it sounds like you need this stuff no matter what the risk.
If that's the case, just get yourself through this crisis and deal with
the piddly stuff later.

Good luck!

Dally

Robert Schuh
September 19th 04, 04:46 AM
Peter Webb wrote:

> If you have a medical problem (and I gather you have a serious one) that may
> benefit from steroids then I am sure you can get a Doctor to prescribe them.
> Even better, get your Doctor to refer you to an endicrinologist who will add
> estrogen supressesors (Chlomid?) so you don't grow breasts.
>
> "spodosaurus" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Okay. I'm only asking here because I have 5 days to learn what I need
> > to, and I've seen this discussed here before. I'm in the process of
> > trying to weed through a lot of crap information.
> >
> > My situation is this: in 5 days I'm going to start having weekly
> > injections of deca. No, this isn't for bodybuilding. It's a last ditch
> > effort to try and keep my blood counts up. By up, I don't mean in the
> > normal range, I mean up enough that I don't end up bleeding out or
> > getting an interesting case of septicaemia. What I need to know is how
> > to keep my endogenous testosterone going and how to prevent adverse side
> > effects of deca (health wise and in terms of gyno and such...I don't
> > even know what some of the side effects are). Unless a bone marrow donor
> > is identified, I'll be on this for the rest of my (short) life (assuming
> > it even helps, we don't know, but we've tried everything else).
> >
> > TIA,
> >
> > Ari
> >
> >
> > --
> > spammage trappage: replace fishies_ with yahoo

Peter,
How many people do you know who have developed gyno from using only Deca??


--
Robert Schuh
"Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche

Robert Schuh
September 19th 04, 04:48 AM
spodosaurus wrote:

> Okay. I'm only asking here because I have 5 days to learn what I need
> to, and I've seen this discussed here before. I'm in the process of
> trying to weed through a lot of crap information.
>
> My situation is this: in 5 days I'm going to start having weekly
> injections of deca. No, this isn't for bodybuilding. It's a last ditch
> effort to try and keep my blood counts up. By up, I don't mean in the
> normal range, I mean up enough that I don't end up bleeding out or
> getting an interesting case of septicaemia. What I need to know is how
> to keep my endogenous testosterone going and how to prevent adverse side
> effects of deca (health wise and in terms of gyno and such...I don't
> even know what some of the side effects are). Unless a bone marrow donor
> is identified, I'll be on this for the rest of my (short) life (assuming
> it even helps, we don't know, but we've tried everything else).
>
> TIA,
>
> Ari
>
> --
> spammage trappage: replace fishies_ with yahoo

Hi Ari,
I take it that when you say blood count, you mean Hemoglobin or Hematocrit?
If so, may I ask why you don't use EPO instead of Deca? Deca used to be used
all the time in dialysis patients to counter anemia, but once EPO came
along, it has been the drug of choice. Deca will shut your natural
testosterone production down, but it depends also on dosage and duration.
You can use Clomid and Arimidex to help keep your own system close to
normal.


--
Robert Schuh
"Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche

spodosaurus
September 19th 04, 08:48 AM
Mick R. wrote:
> "Peter Webb" > wrote in message
> u...
>
>>If you have a medical problem (and I gather you have a serious one) that
>
> may
>
>>benefit from steroids then I am sure you can get a Doctor to prescribe
>
> them.
>
>>Even better, get your Doctor to refer you to an endicrinologist who will
>
> add
>
>>estrogen supressesors (Chlomid?) so you don't grow breasts.

*sigh* I'm not doing this on my own. My doctor is starting me on this
treatment. Everything else has failed. Even the IM injections carry a
significant risk for me at this point due to my blood counts. However, I
need to learn a bit more about it to be able to ask questions and note
side effects if they occur (or better yet, prevent them from occuring,
hence my post)

>>
>
> But then he'll miss out on having his own boobies to keep him company on
> those long lonely nights.
>

My wife and her boobies keep me company. I just wish they made queen
sized hospital beds sometimes.

--
spammage trappage: replace fishies_ with yahoo

spodosaurus
September 19th 04, 12:48 PM
spodosaurus wrote:
> Okay. I'm only asking here because I have 5 days to learn what I need
> to, and I've seen this discussed here before. I'm in the process of
> trying to weed through a lot of crap information.
>
> My situation is this: in 5 days I'm going to start having weekly
> injections of deca. No, this isn't for bodybuilding. It's a last ditch
> effort to try and keep my blood counts up. By up, I don't mean in the
> normal range, I mean up enough that I don't end up bleeding out or
> getting an interesting case of septicaemia. What I need to know is how
> to keep my endogenous testosterone going and how to prevent adverse side
> effects of deca (health wise and in terms of gyno and such...I don't
> even know what some of the side effects are). Unless a bone marrow donor
> is identified, I'll be on this for the rest of my (short) life (assuming
> it even helps, we don't know, but we've tried everything else).
>
> TIA,
>
> Ari
>
>

Sorry I haven't replied to all posts yet. My ISP's news server is having
"issues" :-(

--
spammage trappage: replace fishies_ with yahoo

spodosaurus
September 19th 04, 12:58 PM
--- Robert Schuh > wrote:

> Hi Ari,

Hi Robert,

> I take it that when you say blood count, you mean
> Hemoglobin or Hematocrit?

No...I'm transfusion dependent. That will never change
unless a bone marrow donor can be found. It's
platelets and lymphocytes, basically bone marrow
stimulation. I have a "new" type of aplastic anaemia.

> If so, may I ask why you don't use EPO instead of
> Deca?

They tried me on EPO for a while. My endogenous
production is way up there.

> Deca used to be used
> all the time in dialysis patients to counter anemia,
> but once EPO came
> along, it has been the drug of choice. Deca will
> shut your natural
> testosterone production down, but it depends also on
> dosage and duration.
> You can use Clomid and Arimidex to help keep your
> own system close to
> normal.

Thanks Robert. I might be able to get clomid, but
it'll take some manouvring. The doctor is starting me
out at 50, then 100, then 150 and keeping me at
150mg/week indefinitely. He's a haematologist, and his
main concern is my survival, not the side effects of
the drug. Not that there's a real push to educate
doctors in how to use anabolic steroids properly :-)
All other treatments have failed, and this is just to
keep me alive longer in the hopes that technology will
improve the odds of a mismatch transplant. If not, it
may just let me stay with my wife a bit longer.

Ari





--
spammage trappage: replace fishies_ with yahoo

Dally
September 19th 04, 03:07 PM
spodosaurus wrote:

> All other treatments have failed, and this is just to
> keep me alive longer in the hopes that technology will
> improve the odds of a mismatch transplant. If not, it
> may just let me stay with my wife a bit longer.
>
> Ari

Why a mismatch transplant? Can you educate me a bit on the transplant
issues for bone marrow? I'm wondering because every now and then the
family of some sick kid will organize a bone marrow drive of some sort
and get a bunch of people tested. I've never done it and don't know how
it works, but if I'm holding some goo that you could use I'd be willing
to take a stab (pun intended) and saving your life.

Just tell me they take it from my hips or thighs. I'd do anything to
lose weight there. :-)

Dally

spodosaurus
September 19th 04, 03:35 PM
Dally wrote:
> spodosaurus wrote:
>
>> All other treatments have failed, and this is just to
>> keep me alive longer in the hopes that technology will
>> improve the odds of a mismatch transplant. If not, it
>> may just let me stay with my wife a bit longer.
>>
>> Ari
>
>
> Why a mismatch transplant? Can you educate me a bit on the transplant
> issues for bone marrow? I'm wondering because every now and then the
> family of some sick kid will organize a bone marrow drive of some sort
> and get a bunch of people tested. I've never done it and don't know how
> it works, but if I'm holding some goo that you could use I'd be willing
> to take a stab (pun intended) and saving your life.
>
> Just tell me they take it from my hips or thighs. I'd do anything to
> lose weight there. :-)
>
> Dally
>
>
>
>
>

Hopefully this will work. My ISP is still unable to fix its news server,
and this is not the first bloody time! Argh!

A mismatch transplant because there's no match for me in any of the
databases searched worldwide. The odds of my surviving such a transplant
at the moment are similar to playing russian roullette with 5 chambers
loaded.

As to matching me for a transplant, the odds are astronomically against
it. Also, having had male children, the risk of graft versus host
disease in the recipient go up a lot, though I'm not sure about how long
after the last male child it takes for the risks to drop (if they even
do). However, I have hebrew ancestry as well, so the odds of matching go
up a bit.

If someone wants to have a blood test for major HLA antigens and have
the results sent to my doctor, then okay. But I'd much prefer people to
volunteer to donate to anyone. There's information at www.marrow.org for
this. There're still people that cannot find donors. I happen to have a
very rare HLA allele, so it's difficult to match me. Other people with
more common HLA profiles still don't get donors in time.

There's information on donation procedures at www.marrow.org.

--

To send me an email, try my handle at yahoo.com

Dally
September 19th 04, 06:35 PM
spodosaurus wrote:

> Dally wrote:
>
>> spodosaurus wrote:
>>
>>> All other treatments have failed, and this is just to
>>> keep me alive longer in the hopes that technology will
>>> improve the odds of a mismatch transplant. If not, it
>>> may just let me stay with my wife a bit longer.
>>>
>>> Ari
>>
>>
>>
>> Why a mismatch transplant? Can you educate me a bit on the transplant
>> issues for bone marrow? I'm wondering because every now and then the
>> family of some sick kid will organize a bone marrow drive of some sort
>> and get a bunch of people tested. I've never done it and don't know
>> how it works, but if I'm holding some goo that you could use I'd be
>> willing to take a stab (pun intended) at saving your life.
>>
>> Just tell me they take it from my hips or thighs. I'd do anything to
>> lose weight there. :-)
>>
>> Dally

> Hopefully this will work. My ISP is still unable to fix its news server,
> and this is not the first bloody time! Argh!
>
> A mismatch transplant because there's no match for me in any of the
> databases searched worldwide. The odds of my surviving such a transplant
> at the moment are similar to playing russian roullette with 5 chambers
> loaded.

Damn.

> As to matching me for a transplant, the odds are astronomically against
> it. Also, having had male children, the risk of graft versus host
> disease in the recipient go up a lot, though I'm not sure about how long
> after the last male child it takes for the risks to drop (if they even
> do).

I don't understand this. You mean because I've had male children? My
youngest is just five. How weird.

> However, I have hebrew ancestry as well, so the odds of matching go
> up a bit.

I'm a melange. The ethnic heritage of my four grandparents are all
different: Scot/German/Polish-Jew/Mayflower Pilgrim. What makes you so
weird?

> If someone wants to have a blood test for major HLA antigens and have
> the results sent to my doctor, then okay. But I'd much prefer people to
> volunteer to donate to anyone. There's information at www.marrow.org for
> this. There're still people that cannot find donors. I happen to have a
> very rare HLA allele, so it's difficult to match me. Other people with
> more common HLA profiles still don't get donors in time.

Well, FWIW if I were going to get tested I would definitely enter the
worldwide database. I mean, the point is to facilitate saving a life.
I figure what goes around comes around.

> There's information on donation procedures at www.marrow.org.

Thanks. I thought the donation center list was pretty sparce.
http://www.marrow.org/cgi-bin/NETWORK/map.pl?ctr_typ=DC

I'm about 90 miles from the nearest one. You'd think the major trauma
center 45 minutes away would do it. I'll check into this more.

I think I live in a backwater in terms of organ donation, too. There
was a write-up in the paper lately about how difficult it was for
survivors of two recent accident victims to give the victim's organs
away. The first survivor just gave up fighting about it - she was busy
mourning a recent death, after all. But in the second case the survivor
raised holy hell and after a major conniption fit got the regional
donation center to show up and harvest the organs, but he had to fight
the hospital to do it.

It was eye opening. We hear about how organ donors are wanted all the
time. But if your wife gets killed in a motorcycle crash and is lying
there brain dead still on life support, it turns out that those organs
are likely to get buried.

Dally

Dally

spodosaurus
September 20th 04, 02:44 PM
Dally wrote:
> spodosaurus wrote:
>> As to matching me for a transplant, the odds are astronomically
>> against it. Also, having had male children, the risk of graft versus
>> host disease in the recipient go up a lot, though I'm not sure about
>> how long after the last male child it takes for the risks to drop (if
>> they even do).
>
>
> I don't understand this. You mean because I've had male children? My
> youngest is just five. How weird.
>

Well, it's normal for a mother to have an immune response against the
child she's carrying. After all, it's not recognised as 'self' by the
immune system. Half of the DNA is foreign! Male children are seen to be
a little more foreign than female children due to the ggender
difference. Without a sufficient immune response from the mother, the
placenta does not produce an immunomodulatory hormone to protect itself
and the fetus. This hormone (I forget the name) has an important role in
the development of the fetus beyond its immunomodulatory role. Without
it, or without it in sufficient concentration, the fetus will
spontaneously abort during gestation. I remember reading about
second-cousins (I think) who did not know of their family relation. They
kept trying to conceive, and the fetus would spontaneously abort each
time. Testing showed that their HLAs were too similar for the mother's
immune system to produce enough of a response. This discovery lead to
their discovering their semi-distant relation.

>> However, I have hebrew ancestry as well, so the odds of matching go up
>> a bit.
>
>
> I'm a melange. The ethnic heritage of my four grandparents are all
> different: Scot/German/Polish-Jew/Mayflower Pilgrim. What makes you so
> weird?

I'm a mix as well. And I've been trying to answer that question since my
early teens :-)

>
>> There's information on donation procedures at www.marrow.org.
>
>
> Thanks. I thought the donation center list was pretty sparce.
> http://www.marrow.org/cgi-bin/NETWORK/map.pl?ctr_typ=DC
>
> I'm about 90 miles from the nearest one. You'd think the major trauma
> center 45 minutes away would do it. I'll check into this more.
>

I believe you can arrange to have the tests done by your physician and
added to the registry. I know that in order to speed things up, several
of my relatives volunteered to go onto the registry but also had their
doctors run the major histocompatibility test (about 60-100 dollars). A
match on that results in my local hospital paying for a more thorough
test for the minor antigens. So, the testing can be done very easilly.
The part I don't know about is getting listed on the marrow donor
registry if having the test done privately. I remember that a regular of
this news group had a bit of a bureaucratic hassle trying to get his
results on the registry after corresponding with me. I don't recall the
exact details at this time.

> I think I live in a backwater in terms of organ donation, too. There
> was a write-up in the paper lately about how difficult it was for
> survivors of two recent accident victims to give the victim's organs
> away. The first survivor just gave up fighting about it - she was busy
> mourning a recent death, after all. But in the second case the survivor
> raised holy hell and after a major conniption fit got the regional
> donation center to show up and harvest the organs, but he had to fight
> the hospital to do it.
>
> It was eye opening. We hear about how organ donors are wanted all the
> time. But if your wife gets killed in a motorcycle crash and is lying
> there brain dead still on life support, it turns out that those organs
> are likely to get buried.

I'm both shocked and unsurprised at the same time (if that's a state one
can possible be in).




--
To send me an email, try my handle at yahoo.com

John Hanson
September 21st 04, 06:51 AM
On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 10:07:50 -0400, Dally > wrote in
misc.fitness.weights:

>spodosaurus wrote:
>
>> All other treatments have failed, and this is just to
>> keep me alive longer in the hopes that technology will
>> improve the odds of a mismatch transplant. If not, it
>> may just let me stay with my wife a bit longer.
>>
>> Ari
>
>Why a mismatch transplant? Can you educate me a bit on the transplant
>issues for bone marrow? I'm wondering because every now and then the
>family of some sick kid will organize a bone marrow drive of some sort
>and get a bunch of people tested. I've never done it and don't know how
>it works, but if I'm holding some goo that you could use I'd be willing
>to take a stab (pun intended) and saving your life.
>
>Just tell me they take it from my hips or thighs. I'd do anything to
>lose weight there. :-)
>
Rod Carew's daughter died because they couldn't find a marrow donor
match. Apparently the fact that he is black and his wife is Jewish
made for a fairly rare combination.

Axel of the North!
October 4th 04, 06:22 AM
On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 00:51:11 -0500, John Hanson
> wrote:

>On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 10:07:50 -0400, Dally > wrote in
>misc.fitness.weights:
>
>>spodosaurus wrote:
>>
>>> All other treatments have failed, and this is just to
>>> keep me alive longer in the hopes that technology will
>>> improve the odds of a mismatch transplant. If not, it
>>> may just let me stay with my wife a bit longer.
>>>
>>> Ari
>>
>>Why a mismatch transplant? Can you educate me a bit on the transplant
>>issues for bone marrow? I'm wondering because every now and then the
>>family of some sick kid will organize a bone marrow drive of some sort
>>and get a bunch of people tested. I've never done it and don't know how
>>it works, but if I'm holding some goo that you could use I'd be willing
>>to take a stab (pun intended) and saving your life.
>>
>>Just tell me they take it from my hips or thighs. I'd do anything to
>>lose weight there. :-)
>>
>Rod Carew's daughter died because they couldn't find a marrow donor
>match. Apparently the fact that he is black and his wife is Jewish
>made for a fairly rare combination.
>

this jewish thing sometimes doesn't "work out" so well.