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bc
September 21st 04, 04:18 PM
Where did this idea come from that people need to be careful not to
get too huge? We see this comment a lot, "I don't want to get really
huge or anything. I don't want to end up looking like the guys/women
in the magazines."

If we were a talking about sprinting, would people be saying, "Wow, I
accidentally just broke a 10 second 100m sprint. Don't know how it
happened." Or if we were talking about marathons, would people say,
"I'd hate to accidentally run a 2:20 marathon, don't want to look that
skinny."

I mean, really, isn't there any concept out there that it's hard to
get a lot of muscle? Just like it's hard to do anything at the
highest level.

Except get fat of course. That's apparently pretty easy.

- bc

Lyle McDonald
September 21st 04, 04:54 PM
bc wrote:

> Where did this idea come from that people need to be careful not to
> get too huge? We see this comment a lot, "I don't want to get really
> huge or anything. I don't want to end up looking like the guys/women
> in the magazines."
>
> If we were a talking about sprinting, would people be saying, "Wow, I
> accidentally just broke a 10 second 100m sprint. Don't know how it
> happened." Or if we were talking about marathons, would people say,
> "I'd hate to accidentally run a 2:20 marathon, don't want to look that
> skinny."
>
> I mean, really, isn't there any concept out there that it's hard to
> get a lot of muscle? Just like it's hard to do anything at the
> highest level.

My hunch: the images that most are exposed to in terms of what weight
training/bodybuilding will 'do' to you are the muscle comic books.
Which invariably show a bunch of roided out monsters.

I think people automatically assume that they are going to end up
looking like that if they so much as look at a weight.

this was one advantage I had as a trainer being relatively little. As
soon as someone hit me with the "I don't want to get too big" thing, I'd
point out that I was TRYING actively to get bigger and look at what was
happening. Then point out that it's not as if you suddenly just 'wake
up' big one morning.

Lyle

Lee Michaels
September 21st 04, 05:01 PM
"Lyle McDonald" wrote

> bc wrote:
>
> > Where did this idea come from that people need to be careful not to
> > get too huge? We see this comment a lot, "I don't want to get really
> > huge or anything. I don't want to end up looking like the guys/women
> > in the magazines."
> >
> > If we were a talking about sprinting, would people be saying, "Wow, I
> > accidentally just broke a 10 second 100m sprint. Don't know how it
> > happened." Or if we were talking about marathons, would people say,
> > "I'd hate to accidentally run a 2:20 marathon, don't want to look that
> > skinny."
> >
> > I mean, really, isn't there any concept out there that it's hard to
> > get a lot of muscle? Just like it's hard to do anything at the
> > highest level.
>
> My hunch: the images that most are exposed to in terms of what weight
> training/bodybuilding will 'do' to you are the muscle comic books.
> Which invariably show a bunch of roided out monsters.
>
> I think people automatically assume that they are going to end up
> looking like that if they so much as look at a weight.
>
> this was one advantage I had as a trainer being relatively little. As
> soon as someone hit me with the "I don't want to get too big" thing, I'd
> point out that I was TRYING actively to get bigger and look at what was
> happening. Then point out that it's not as if you suddenly just 'wake
> up' big one morning.
>
I always asked people if they ever bought a lottery ticket. Most people
have. Then I ask them if they actively feared winning the lottery. Most
folks thought that was crazy and told me so. Then I asked them why they
feared getting too big. Since the average person's chance of betting big was
less than their chance of winning the lottery. That quieted down most, but
not all, folks about this issue.

Donovan Rebbechi
September 21st 04, 05:30 PM
On 2004-09-21, bc > wrote:

> If we were a talking about sprinting, would people be saying, "Wow, I
> accidentally just broke a 10 second 100m sprint. Don't know how it
> happened." Or if we were talking about marathons, would people say,
> "I'd hate to accidentally run a 2:20 marathon, don't want to look that
> skinny."

You do get people who worry about this, like they're afraid that 15
miles per week is going to make them look like a genetic outlier who
runs 150 miles a week.

You also get those HIIT dolts who think that the Shawn Phillips program
will make them look like an elite sprinter. Never mind that the program
more closely resembles 800m training than sprint training, or that the
muscle mass of the sprinters has more to do with weight training and
genetics than it does with sprinting.

I suppose these guys also avoid basketball because they're afraid that
they'll grow too tall.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Cormac
September 21st 04, 05:43 PM
I think what he meant was that his goal isn't to become big, and so he was
being more realistic saying he just wants to build his strength.


cormac



"bc" > wrote in message
om...
> Where did this idea come from that people need to be careful not to
> get too huge? We see this comment a lot, "I don't want to get really
> huge or anything. I don't want to end up looking like the guys/women
> in the magazines."
>
> If we were a talking about sprinting, would people be saying, "Wow, I
> accidentally just broke a 10 second 100m sprint. Don't know how it
> happened." Or if we were talking about marathons, would people say,
> "I'd hate to accidentally run a 2:20 marathon, don't want to look that
> skinny."
>
> I mean, really, isn't there any concept out there that it's hard to
> get a lot of muscle? Just like it's hard to do anything at the
> highest level.
>
> Except get fat of course. That's apparently pretty easy.
>
> - bc

Lee Michaels
September 21st 04, 07:01 PM
"Cormac" > wrote in message
...
> I think what he meant was that his goal isn't to become big, and so he was
> being more realistic saying he just wants to build his strength.
>
>
Regardless of what you think "he" meant, people say it all the time.

And they reveal themselves to be complete morons when they do.

I don't find profound ignorance and stupidity to be excusable. Under ANY
circumstances.

Slambram
September 21st 04, 09:08 PM
On 21 Sep 2004 08:18:21 -0700, (bc)
wrote:

>Where did this idea come from that people need to be careful not to
>get too huge? We see this comment a lot, "I don't want to get really
>huge or anything. I don't want to end up looking like the guys/women
>in the magazines."
>
>If we were a talking about sprinting, would people be saying, "Wow, I
>accidentally just broke a 10 second 100m sprint. Don't know how it
>happened." Or if we were talking about marathons, would people say,
>"I'd hate to accidentally run a 2:20 marathon, don't want to look that
>skinny."
>
>I mean, really, isn't there any concept out there that it's hard to
>get a lot of muscle? Just like it's hard to do anything at the
>highest level.
>
>Except get fat of course. That's apparently pretty easy.
>
>- bc

I like to think your body is like the Constitution. It's so hard to
change that by the time you actually succeed in doing so there's no
mistaking your intentions. Your body will fight you almost every step
of the way, unless you just want to become a FFID like the original
poster said.

Tiger Hillside
September 21st 04, 09:39 PM
On 21 Sep 2004 08:18:21 -0700, (bc)
wrote:

>Where did this idea come from that people need to be careful not to
>get too huge? We see this comment a lot, "I don't want to get really
>huge or anything. I don't want to end up looking like the guys/women
>in the magazines."
>
>If we were a talking about sprinting, would people be saying, "Wow, I
>accidentally just broke a 10 second 100m sprint. Don't know how it
>happened." Or if we were talking about marathons, would people say,
>"I'd hate to accidentally run a 2:20 marathon, don't want to look that
>skinny."
>
>I mean, really, isn't there any concept out there that it's hard to
>get a lot of muscle? Just like it's hard to do anything at the
>highest level.
>
>Except get fat of course. That's apparently pretty easy.

I think you miss the point. It is not that it is easy, but that it is
a common goal of lifting weights. Getting big is the most common image
we have of people who lift weights, getting very strong is much less
common. I assumed when I started that I would have to do different
things to get large vs. get very strong vs just get stronger. My goal
was the last. Interestingly enough I find it difficult to communicate
that notion here, that I want to be strong for normal activities has
been treated as a bit strange. Had I wanted to get strong for some
sport or to be able to lift ever increasing amounts of iron, that
would have been normal for the group. That I want to get stronger so
some non-sports activities are easier or possible is stranger.

the tree by the river
September 21st 04, 09:39 PM
In article >,
bc > wrote:
>
>Where did this idea come from that people need to be careful not to
>get too huge? We see this comment a lot, "I don't want to get really
>huge or anything. I don't want to end up looking like the guys/women
>in the magazines."

Boggles my mind, too, especially considering I usually hear it from
people who don't have enough muscle definition for you to be able to
tell reliably whether they're trying to flex something or they're
just experiencing some form of acute gastric distress.

Maybe people think it's easy to get hyooge by accident because just
about everybody used to be...or so they tell me. Yep, pretty much
everybody--including random strangers on the street--feel compelled
to tell me that they used to be buffer than I am. And they all used
to bench more than 300 pounds easily. Every one.

I always nod appreciatively. I never say anything like, "so
what happened?" Maybe they just started being more careful to
avoid accidentally getting hyooge.

--
soc.singles FAQ [ Nyx Net, free ISP ] Misc.Fitness.Weights page
www.trygve.com/ssfaq.html [ http://www.nyx.net ] www.trygve.com/mfw.html
today's special feature, "ten Warning Signs of Nocturnal Sleepiness Syndrome"
http://www.trygve.com/nocturnalsyndrome.html

Keith Hobman
September 21st 04, 10:23 PM
In article >, Tiger Hillside
> wrote:

> On 21 Sep 2004 08:18:21 -0700, (bc)
> wrote:
>
> >Where did this idea come from that people need to be careful not to
> >get too huge? We see this comment a lot, "I don't want to get really
> >huge or anything. I don't want to end up looking like the guys/women
> >in the magazines."
> >
> >If we were a talking about sprinting, would people be saying, "Wow, I
> >accidentally just broke a 10 second 100m sprint. Don't know how it
> >happened." Or if we were talking about marathons, would people say,
> >"I'd hate to accidentally run a 2:20 marathon, don't want to look that
> >skinny."
> >
> >I mean, really, isn't there any concept out there that it's hard to
> >get a lot of muscle? Just like it's hard to do anything at the
> >highest level.
> >
> >Except get fat of course. That's apparently pretty easy.
>
> I think you miss the point. It is not that it is easy, but that it is
> a common goal of lifting weights. Getting big is the most common image
> we have of people who lift weights, getting very strong is much less
> common. I assumed when I started that I would have to do different
> things to get large vs. get very strong vs just get stronger. My goal
> was the last. Interestingly enough I find it difficult to communicate
> that notion here, that I want to be strong for normal activities has
> been treated as a bit strange. Had I wanted to get strong for some
> sport or to be able to lift ever increasing amounts of iron, that
> would have been normal for the group. That I want to get stronger so
> some non-sports activities are easier or possible is stranger.

I don't know that it is stranger - the problem is that in terms of an
objective it is vague. Since there are so many facets of strength how do
you train?

You have absolute strength, speed/strength, strength endurance and active
continiums between them. So it is easier to develop a program for
something specific as opposed to something general like this.

--
My advice and opinions reflect my personality and goals.
I have no desire to cover my ass and all the bases with
disclaimers about who this is good for and who it is not
good for. So take everything I say with a grain of salt.

Lyle McDonald
September 21st 04, 11:27 PM
Keith Hobman wrote:

> In article >, Tiger Hillside
> > wrote:
>
>
>>On 21 Sep 2004 08:18:21 -0700, (bc)
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Where did this idea come from that people need to be careful not to
>>>get too huge? We see this comment a lot, "I don't want to get really
>>>huge or anything. I don't want to end up looking like the guys/women
>>>in the magazines."
>>>
>>>If we were a talking about sprinting, would people be saying, "Wow, I
>>>accidentally just broke a 10 second 100m sprint. Don't know how it
>>>happened." Or if we were talking about marathons, would people say,
>>>"I'd hate to accidentally run a 2:20 marathon, don't want to look that
>>>skinny."
>>>
>>>I mean, really, isn't there any concept out there that it's hard to
>>>get a lot of muscle? Just like it's hard to do anything at the
>>>highest level.
>>>
>>>Except get fat of course. That's apparently pretty easy.
>>
>>I think you miss the point. It is not that it is easy, but that it is
>>a common goal of lifting weights. Getting big is the most common image
>>we have of people who lift weights, getting very strong is much less
>>common. I assumed when I started that I would have to do different
>>things to get large vs. get very strong vs just get stronger. My goal
>>was the last. Interestingly enough I find it difficult to communicate
>>that notion here, that I want to be strong for normal activities has
>>been treated as a bit strange. Had I wanted to get strong for some
>>sport or to be able to lift ever increasing amounts of iron, that
>>would have been normal for the group. That I want to get stronger so
>>some non-sports activities are easier or possible is stranger.
>
>
> I don't know that it is stranger - the problem is that in terms of an
> objective it is vague. Since there are so many facets of strength how do
> you train?
>
> You have absolute strength, speed/strength, strength endurance and active
> continiums between them. So it is easier to develop a program for
> something specific as opposed to something general like this.

And for general real-world strength, I don't think you need anything
but hte basics.

You need exercise to work the body relatively evenly. You need stuff
for upper back, lower body and deadlifts or front squats would be key
for the lifting muscles. Deadlifts would also teach good lifting form.

Add in some things to round it out, train twice per week full body, a
few sets of the basic exercises progressing weight when he can and I
doubt Tiger will be lacking much.

Lyle

John M. Williams
September 22nd 04, 12:26 AM
Tiger Hillside > wrote:
>
> (bc) wrote:
>>
>>Where did this idea come from that people need to be careful not to
>>get too huge? We see this comment a lot, "I don't want to get really
>>huge or anything. I don't want to end up looking like the guys/women
>>in the magazines."
>>
>>If we were a talking about sprinting, would people be saying, "Wow, I
>>accidentally just broke a 10 second 100m sprint. Don't know how it
>>happened." Or if we were talking about marathons, would people say,
>>"I'd hate to accidentally run a 2:20 marathon, don't want to look that
>>skinny."
>>
>>I mean, really, isn't there any concept out there that it's hard to
>>get a lot of muscle? Just like it's hard to do anything at the
>>highest level.
>>
>>Except get fat of course. That's apparently pretty easy.
>
>I think you miss the point. It is not that it is easy, but that it is
>a common goal of lifting weights. Getting big is the most common image
>we have of people who lift weights, getting very strong is much less
>common. I assumed when I started that I would have to do different
>things to get large vs. get very strong vs just get stronger. My goal
>was the last. Interestingly enough I find it difficult to communicate
>that notion here, that I want to be strong for normal activities has
>been treated as a bit strange.

No, your specific activity was not "normal," but rather, "a bit
strange." It raised a lot of questions for good reason.

Robert Schuh
September 22nd 04, 12:27 AM
bc wrote:

> Where did this idea come from that people need to be careful not to
> get too huge? We see this comment a lot, "I don't want to get really
> huge or anything. I don't want to end up looking like the guys/women
> in the magazines."
>
> If we were a talking about sprinting, would people be saying, "Wow, I
> accidentally just broke a 10 second 100m sprint. Don't know how it
> happened." Or if we were talking about marathons, would people say,
> "I'd hate to accidentally run a 2:20 marathon, don't want to look that
> skinny."
>
> I mean, really, isn't there any concept out there that it's hard to
> get a lot of muscle? Just like it's hard to do anything at the
> highest level.
>
> Except get fat of course. That's apparently pretty easy.
>
> - bc

You are correct. The theory is ludicrous. It is mainly spoken by assholes
who NEVER have trained hard in their lives and just want to sound like
they have a legitimate excuse for being fat and lazy. Take Mike Lane as an
example.


--
Robert Schuh
"Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche

Robert Schuh
September 22nd 04, 12:29 AM
Lee Michaels wrote:

> "Lyle McDonald" wrote
>
> > bc wrote:
> >
> > > Where did this idea come from that people need to be careful not to
> > > get too huge? We see this comment a lot, "I don't want to get really
> > > huge or anything. I don't want to end up looking like the guys/women
> > > in the magazines."
> > >
> > > If we were a talking about sprinting, would people be saying, "Wow, I
> > > accidentally just broke a 10 second 100m sprint. Don't know how it
> > > happened." Or if we were talking about marathons, would people say,
> > > "I'd hate to accidentally run a 2:20 marathon, don't want to look that
> > > skinny."
> > >
> > > I mean, really, isn't there any concept out there that it's hard to
> > > get a lot of muscle? Just like it's hard to do anything at the
> > > highest level.
> >
> > My hunch: the images that most are exposed to in terms of what weight
> > training/bodybuilding will 'do' to you are the muscle comic books.
> > Which invariably show a bunch of roided out monsters.
> >
> > I think people automatically assume that they are going to end up
> > looking like that if they so much as look at a weight.
> >
> > this was one advantage I had as a trainer being relatively little. As
> > soon as someone hit me with the "I don't want to get too big" thing, I'd
> > point out that I was TRYING actively to get bigger and look at what was
> > happening. Then point out that it's not as if you suddenly just 'wake
> > up' big one morning.
> >
> I always asked people if they ever bought a lottery ticket. Most people
> have. Then I ask them if they actively feared winning the lottery. Most
> folks thought that was crazy and told me so. Then I asked them why they
> feared getting too big. Since the average person's chance of betting big was
> less than their chance of winning the lottery. That quieted down most, but
> not all, folks about this issue.

Lyle,
I think a lot of people don't realize the importance of visualization in your
training. I can promise anyone that is they go to the gym and do not want to get
big, they won't, unless they are Sergio Oliva etc. I have NEVER heard of anyone
going to the gym and then waking up a few months later looking like Flex
Wheeler! :-)


--
Robert Schuh
"Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche

Robert Schuh
September 22nd 04, 12:29 AM
Donovan Rebbechi wrote:

> On 2004-09-21, bc > wrote:
>
> > If we were a talking about sprinting, would people be saying, "Wow, I
> > accidentally just broke a 10 second 100m sprint. Don't know how it
> > happened." Or if we were talking about marathons, would people say,
> > "I'd hate to accidentally run a 2:20 marathon, don't want to look that
> > skinny."
>
> You do get people who worry about this, like they're afraid that 15
> miles per week is going to make them look like a genetic outlier who
> runs 150 miles a week.
>
> You also get those HIIT dolts who think that the Shawn Phillips program
> will make them look like an elite sprinter. Never mind that the program
> more closely resembles 800m training than sprint training, or that the
> muscle mass of the sprinters has more to do with weight training and
> genetics than it does with sprinting.
>
> I suppose these guys also avoid basketball because they're afraid that
> they'll grow too tall.
>
> Cheers,
> --
> Donovan Rebbechi
> http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

No,
The avoid basketball because they are afraid they will get better than MJ!
:-)


--
Robert Schuh
"Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche

bc
September 22nd 04, 05:10 AM
(the tree by the river) wrote in message >...
> In article >,
> bc > wrote:
> >
> >Where did this idea come from that people need to be careful not to
> >get too huge? We see this comment a lot, "I don't want to get really
> >huge or anything. I don't want to end up looking like the guys/women
> >in the magazines."
>
> Boggles my mind, too, especially considering I usually hear it from
> people who don't have enough muscle definition for you to be able to
> tell reliably whether they're trying to flex something or they're
> just experiencing some form of acute gastric distress.
>
> Maybe people think it's easy to get hyooge by accident because just
> about everybody used to be...or so they tell me. Yep, pretty much
> everybody--including random strangers on the street--feel compelled
> to tell me that they used to be buffer than I am. And they all used
> to bench more than 300 pounds easily. Every one.
>
> I always nod appreciatively. I never say anything like, "so
> what happened?" Maybe they just started being more careful to
> avoid accidentally getting hyooge.

Ohmygod! Trygve's back. I haven't seen you post anything here, well,
in a coon's age. FWIW, I have never benched 300 lbs.

- bc

AleX
September 22nd 04, 01:03 PM
Lyle McDonald > wrote:

> And for general real-world strength, I don't think you need anything
> but hte basics.

> You need exercise to work the body relatively evenly. You need stuff
> for upper back, lower body and deadlifts or front squats would be key
> for the lifting muscles. Deadlifts would also teach good lifting form.

> Add in some things to round it out, train twice per week full body, a
> few sets of the basic exercises progressing weight when he can and I
> doubt Tiger will be lacking much.

What, no curls?

---
Signature has been removed to save disk space.

Cormac
September 22nd 04, 09:24 PM
Do I care?
"Lee Michaels" > wrote in message
news:[email protected]_s04...
>
> "Cormac" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I think what he meant was that his goal isn't to become big, and so he
was
> > being more realistic saying he just wants to build his strength.
> >
> >
> Regardless of what you think "he" meant, people say it all the time.
>
> And they reveal themselves to be complete morons when they do.
>
> I don't find profound ignorance and stupidity to be excusable. Under ANY
> circumstances.
>
>
>

Joe Laughlin
September 24th 04, 01:10 AM
Cormac wrote:
> Do I care?

Obviously you did enough to top post.

> "Lee Michaels" > wrote
> in message news:[email protected]_s04...
>>
>> "Cormac" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> I think what he meant was that his goal isn't to become
>>> big, and so he was being more realistic saying he just
>>> wants to build his strength.
>>>
>>>
>> Regardless of what you think "he" meant, people say it
>> all the time.
>>
>> And they reveal themselves to be complete morons when
>> they do.
>>
>> I don't find profound ignorance and stupidity to be
>> excusable. Under ANY circumstances.

the tree by the river
September 25th 04, 02:26 PM
In article >,
bc > wrote:
(the tree by the river) wrote in message >...
>>
>> Maybe people think it's easy to get hyooge by accident because just
>> about everybody used to be...or so they tell me. Yep, pretty much
>> everybody--including random strangers on the street--feel compelled
>> to tell me that they used to be buffer than I am. And they all used
>> to bench more than 300 pounds easily. Every one.
>>
>> I always nod appreciatively. I never say anything like, "so
>> what happened?" Maybe they just started being more careful to
>> avoid accidentally getting hyooge.
>
>Ohmygod! Trygve's back. I haven't seen you post anything here, well,
>in a coon's age. FWIW, I have never benched 300 lbs.

I tend to read a lot more than I post--I still can't get rid of that
strange bug in my newsreader that causes the phone to ring whenever
I press "F(ollowup." Obviously, I just need to get up at 4:00AM
more often, since that seems to help (at least for a little while).

Could just be a temperature-related problem with the hardware. I
should try spraying some circuit cooler on my 'F' key.

Maybe one thing I should ask is whether they did their benching on
one of those high-school gym Universal machines. It's a bit easier
to hit 300 on those.

--
soc.singles FAQ [ Nyx Net, free ISP ] Misc.Fitness.Weights page
www.trygve.com/ssfaq.html [ http://www.nyx.net ] www.trygve.com/mfw.html
Your computer will stay up longer than ever with Viagra for Windows!
http://www.trygve.com/viagra.html

bc
September 27th 04, 05:46 PM
(the tree by the river) wrote in message >...
> In article >,
> bc > wrote:
> (the tree by the river) wrote in message >...
> >>
> >> Maybe people think it's easy to get hyooge by accident because just
> >> about everybody used to be...or so they tell me. Yep, pretty much
> >> everybody--including random strangers on the street--feel compelled
> >> to tell me that they used to be buffer than I am. And they all used
> >> to bench more than 300 pounds easily. Every one.
> >>
> >> I always nod appreciatively. I never say anything like, "so
> >> what happened?" Maybe they just started being more careful to
> >> avoid accidentally getting hyooge.
> >
> >Ohmygod! Trygve's back. I haven't seen you post anything here, well,
> >in a coon's age. FWIW, I have never benched 300 lbs.
>
> I tend to read a lot more than I post--I still can't get rid of that
> strange bug in my newsreader that causes the phone to ring whenever
> I press "F(ollowup." Obviously, I just need to get up at 4:00AM
> more often, since that seems to help (at least for a little while).
>
> Could just be a temperature-related problem with the hardware. I
> should try spraying some circuit cooler on my 'F' key.

Try a different newsreader. If you're doing Windows OS, you could try
Agent. I have the free version, and it works fine. I also use google
a lot, but it has it's issues.

- bc