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Lester
September 28th 04, 04:15 PM
Recent Men's Fitness article stated that targeting specific groups is
all BS and passe. They describe a rather sketchy alternate rotation
methodology. (I'm sorry, I don't have the link to the article).

I don't have time to workout 3-4 days a week (2 at most) and wind up
doing legs, shoulders, back, abs, arms all at the same workout. Thus,
I found this concept fairly interesting, but from my experience it
does not get you ripped. I just wanted to know if any of you managed
to get in good shape by working all groups at once.
Thanks
L

Helgi Briem
September 28th 04, 04:53 PM
On 28 Sep 2004 08:15:45 -0700, (Lester) wrote:



>I don't have time to workout 3-4 days a week (2 at most) and
>wind up doing legs, shoulders, back, abs, arms all at the same
>workout.

Good, many of us do the same.

>Thus, I found this concept fairly interesting, but from my
>experience it does not get you ripped.

Getting ripped has a lot more to do with diet than the fine
details of your weights programme.

> I just wanted to know if any of you managed
>to get in good shape by working all groups at once.

By doing mostly compound lifts, 2-5 sets of each, 3-10
reps per set, 2-3 times a week and not training to failure
on a regular basis. A routine based around:

Squat
Deadlift
Bench press (or overhead press or dip)
Chinup (or pullup, pulldown or row)

works well. I like to add back extensions and
a little ab work, plus occasional supplemental
exercises.

Read http://www.stumptuous.com/weights.html
and ignore the bit about how it's for women.

--
Helgi Briem hbriem AT simnet DOT is

"Don't worry about it, son. God is just messing with your head."

Hugh Beyer
September 28th 04, 06:21 PM
Helgi Briem > wrote in
:

> On 28 Sep 2004 08:15:45 -0700, (Lester) wrote:
>
>
>
>>I don't have time to workout 3-4 days a week (2 at most) and
>>wind up doing legs, shoulders, back, abs, arms all at the same
>>workout.
>
> Good, many of us do the same.
>
>>Thus, I found this concept fairly interesting, but from my
>>experience it does not get you ripped.
>
> Getting ripped has a lot more to do with diet than the fine
> details of your weights programme.
>
>> I just wanted to know if any of you managed
>>to get in good shape by working all groups at once.
>
> By doing mostly compound lifts, 2-5 sets of each, 3-10
> reps per set, 2-3 times a week and not training to failure
> on a regular basis. A routine based around:
>
> Squat
> Deadlift
> Bench press (or overhead press or dip)
> Chinup (or pullup, pulldown or row)
>
> works well. I like to add back extensions and
> a little ab work, plus occasional supplemental
> exercises.
>
> Read http://www.stumptuous.com/weights.html
> and ignore the bit about how it's for women.

Yeah, some feminist got in there and messed up the site.

If you're looking for size, go to www.hypertrophy-specific.com -- you can
do that as a 2xweek program.

Hugh


--
One puppy had its dewclaws removed in the creation of this post, but for
reasons of hygene and it really doesn't hurt them at all.

Johnny
September 28th 04, 08:55 PM
The issue as I see it is that you are limited to two days a week.
That's a problem as adaptation to a stressor (anaerobic exorcise)
NEEDS to be more consistent or else you have a situation where your
body doesn't adapt to the regularity of contractory exercise and you
get hurt. If you can kick it to 3 days a week it may just work.

On 28 Sep 2004 08:15:45 -0700, (Lester) wrote:

>Recent Men's Fitness article stated that targeting specific groups is
>all BS and passe. They describe a rather sketchy alternate rotation
>methodology. (I'm sorry, I don't have the link to the article).
>
>I don't have time to workout 3-4 days a week (2 at most) and wind up
>doing legs, shoulders, back, abs, arms all at the same workout. Thus,
>I found this concept fairly interesting, but from my experience it
>does not get you ripped. I just wanted to know if any of you managed
>to get in good shape by working all groups at once.
>Thanks
>L



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HIT Fanatic
September 29th 04, 07:30 PM
bench press 1 set 8-10 reps to failure
bent-over rows 1 set 8-10 reps to failure
deadlifts 1 set 8-10 reps to failure

Lester wrote:
>
> Recent Men's Fitness article stated that targeting specific groups is
> all BS and passe. They describe a rather sketchy alternate rotation
> methodology. (I'm sorry, I don't have the link to the article).
>
> I don't have time to workout 3-4 days a week (2 at most) and wind up
> doing legs, shoulders, back, abs, arms all at the same workout. Thus,
> I found this concept fairly interesting, but from my experience it
> does not get you ripped. I just wanted to know if any of you managed
> to get in good shape by working all groups at once.
> Thanks
> L

Sh0t
September 29th 04, 11:41 PM
Here it is:

Body-Part Training Is Dead
It's time to lay your old-school, one-body-part-per-day workout routine
to rest

Aug 30 '04

You don't have to sport a permed mullet and baggy muscle pants to look
like an outdated bodybuilder. For most guys, all it requires is a trip
to the gym. Why? Because the average lifter still organizes his workouts
by body part, designating a separate day to train his chest, shoulders,
arms, and so on. Sound familiar? It's a common approach that was
popularized in the '80s by every muscle and fitness mag on the planet.
(And still is.) It's not wrong--plenty of muscleheads swear by it. But
it is antiquated. Think about it: Everything else has evolved and
improved in the last 20 years--shouldn't your workout? The fact is,
there's a faster, more effective way to build muscle than traditional
body-part training. We took off our lab coats to create--especially for
you--a 21st-century training plan. This way, you'll be up to date in the
gym, even if you drive a Datsun to get there.

FAULTY GROUNDS
The foundation of body-part training is shaky because of one simple and
often ignored scientific fact: You can't isolate muscles. Whether you're
doing a bench press for your chest or an arm curl for your biceps, there
are always other muscles at work. These muscles either assist the
"target" muscle or contract to stabilize your joints as you perform the
exercise.

So when you prepare to lift a weight, your brain sends a nerve impulse
to all the muscles needed to initiate the movement, causing them to fire
as a single unit. The bottom line: Your brain recognizes movement
patterns, not individual muscles, so that's the way you should organize
your training sessions. Yet few lifters or trainers think in those
terms, and that's a problem, because most body-part routines don't allow
for balanced workouts, ideal recovery, or efficient training. For
example, here's a common workout plan: chest on Monday, back on Tuesday,
legs on Wednesday, shoulders on Thursday, and arms on Friday. Now here's
why it's flawed:

# The muscles of the lower body, the quadriceps, hamstrings, and calves,
are worked on the same day, yet the chest, back, shoulders, and arms are
trained separately. There's nothing wrong with training your legs once a
week, but devoting an additional four days to your upper body is poor logic.
# Having a dedicated "arm" day is overkill. When you train your chest,
back, and shoulders, the smaller assisting muscles--the triceps and
biceps--fatigue faster than the larger target muscles. So by doing
compound moves, such as bench presses, shoulder presses, chinups, and
rows, you're working your arm muscles maximally, even if you never do a
biceps curl or a triceps extension.
# The arm workout is performed the day after the shoulder workout, even
though shoulder presses engage the triceps fully. This results in inad-
equate recovery time for growth.
# Since you're only working one body part per workout, you have to
perform straight sets, resting between each. That means there's limited
opportunity to speed your workout with supersets or alternating sets.

MOVEMENTS FOR MUSCLE
You can solve all the above problems by choosing your exercises from the
six major movement patterns on the next page. And by taking our
recommendations that follow, you'll work all your muscles intensely
while allowing plenty of recovery time for them to grow.

EXERCISE GROUPINGS
1. Horizontal Pushes: Upper-body exercises in which you move the weight
away from your torso horizontally. (Imagine your torso is upright.)
Exercises:
Any bench press or chest fly; dips

2. Horizontal Pulls: Upper-body exercises that require you to move the
weight toward your torso horizontally
Exercises: Any bent-over or seated row; dumbbell or machine reverse flys

3. Vertical Pushes: Upper-body exercises in which you move the weight
vertically in relation to your torso
Exercises: Any type of shoulder press; lateral or front raise; upright row

4. Vertical Pulls: Upper-body exercises that require you to move the
weight in a downward direction in relation to your upright torso
Exercises: Any pullup, pulldown, or pullover

5. Quad-dominants: Exercises in which your quadriceps are the primary mover
Exercises: Any squat, lunge, or leg extension

6. Hip-dominants: Exercises in which your hamstrings and glutes are the
primary movers
Exercises: Any type of deadlift or leg curl

BUILD A BETTER WORKOUT
Now that you understand how to group your exercises by movement patterns
instead of body parts, the rest is easy. Simply use the guidelines below
to structure your workout.

Practice organized lifting. To create an effective training split,
divide your workout into two upper-body sessions and two lower-body
sessions per week. For example, you might work your upper body on Monday
and Thursday, and your lower body on Tuesday and Friday. In your first
upper-body session, perform only horizontal-push and horizontal-pull
movements; in the second upper-body session, do only vertical-push and
vertical-pull movements. For your lower body, use quad-dominant
exercises in your first workout and hip-dominant exercises in your
second workout. This technique provides an ample amount of work for all
your muscles while allowing more recovery time than body-part training.

Match sets. Do an equal number of sets for each movement pattern. As a
general guideline, shoot for 6-12 sets for each movement pattern,
performing the low end of the recommendation if you're a beginner and
the high end if you've been lifting more than a year. Doing the same
amount of work for each movement pattern helps eliminate weak links, the
common cause of muscle-size and strength plateaus. Note that you'll only
be doing one movement pattern on lower-body days, so you'll do fewer
total sets (6-12) than on your upper-body days (12-24). That's
acceptable because lower-body exercises such as squats are more
physically demanding than upper-body movements.

Master energy efficiency. For a time-saving workout that doesn't
sacrifice muscle gains, use an alternating-set technique during your
upper-body workouts. That is, alternate between sets of
opposite-movement patterns, resting 30 seconds between each set. For
instance, alternate between sets of bench presses (horizontal push) and
bent-over rows (horizontal pull), resting 30 seconds between each set
until you've completed the planned number of sets for each. While your
horizontal-pushing muscles work, your horizontal-pulling muscles rest,
and vice versa. So your muscles are actually resting for 90-120 seconds
before repeating a movement, since each set takes at least 30-60 seconds
to perform. This cuts your workout time in half while allowing you to
train both movements--and all the muscles involved--intensely.

THE FINAL DETAILS
You've probably noticed there is no direct arm work in this system. If
you feel it's necessary, divide your arm exercises into elbow flexion,
such as curls, where you bend your elbows to lift the weight, and elbow
extension, such as lying triceps extensions, which require you to
straighten your arms to lift the weight. Perform elbow-flexion exercises
on the same day you do horizontal-push movements, and do elbow-extension
exercises on the same day you perform vertical-pull movements. You can
also perform calf exercises for your lower legs on either your
quad-dominant or hip-dominant day. For all of these, do the detail
exercises at the end of your workout. You won't need to work any of
these movements much, though: 2-4 sets are plenty.