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fj
September 28th 04, 10:23 PM
"A lot of people don't go anywhere near heavy enough on the squats, because
they're afraid that they won't know what to do if they get "stuck" at the
bottom. It's useful to learn how to bail out and dump the bar -- on a light
weight of course -- so that you know what to do if it comes up. Not that
it's likely to, but it's important that you're not afraid to exert yourself.
"

-quoted from another post

Yes, I am one of those people who are afraid of squat with heavy weights. I
never knew my max squat weight. When I finish one set, I have no idea how
many more I can keep going. When my legs start shaking I stop. What would
you do if you are stuck in middle of a squat? When you dump the barbell from
back, is there any chance you might hurt your back or knees?

Any tips for lifting heavy weight and avoid injury?

-fj

Lyle McDonald
September 28th 04, 10:30 PM
fj wrote:
> "A lot of people don't go anywhere near heavy enough on the squats, because
> they're afraid that they won't know what to do if they get "stuck" at the
> bottom. It's useful to learn how to bail out and dump the bar -- on a light
> weight of course -- so that you know what to do if it comes up. Not that
> it's likely to, but it's important that you're not afraid to exert yourself.
> "
>
> -quoted from another post
>
> Yes, I am one of those people who are afraid of squat with heavy weights. I
> never knew my max squat weight. When I finish one set, I have no idea how
> many more I can keep going. When my legs start shaking I stop. What would
> you do if you are stuck in middle of a squat? When you dump the barbell from
> back, is there any chance you might hurt your back or knees?

I would set up in a squat rack with the safety pins set just below my
deepest squat point. If I got stuck, I would lower down and simply sink
a touch lower until the bar rested on the pins. Then wriggle out from
underneath.

Lyle

Keith Hobman
September 28th 04, 10:48 PM
In article >, Lyle McDonald
> wrote:

> fj wrote:
> > "A lot of people don't go anywhere near heavy enough on the squats, because
> > they're afraid that they won't know what to do if they get "stuck" at the
> > bottom. It's useful to learn how to bail out and dump the bar -- on a light
> > weight of course -- so that you know what to do if it comes up. Not that
> > it's likely to, but it's important that you're not afraid to exert yourself.
> > "
> >
> > -quoted from another post
> >
> > Yes, I am one of those people who are afraid of squat with heavy weights. I
> > never knew my max squat weight. When I finish one set, I have no idea how
> > many more I can keep going. When my legs start shaking I stop. What would
> > you do if you are stuck in middle of a squat? When you dump the barbell from
> > back, is there any chance you might hurt your back or knees?
>
> I would set up in a squat rack with the safety pins set just below my
> deepest squat point. If I got stuck, I would lower down and simply sink
> a touch lower until the bar rested on the pins. Then wriggle out from
> underneath.

I thought you squatted ATTG Lyle?

So wouldn't you have to incline your upper body slightly forward?

Jeff Finlayson
September 28th 04, 11:01 PM
fj wrote:

> "A lot of people don't go anywhere near heavy enough on the squats, because
> they're afraid that they won't know what to do if they get "stuck" at the
> bottom. It's useful to learn how to bail out and dump the bar -- on a light
> weight of course -- so that you know what to do if it comes up. Not that
> it's likely to, but it's important that you're not afraid to exert yourself."
> -quoted from another post

> Yes, I am one of those people who are afraid of squat with heavy weights. I
> never knew my max squat weight. When I finish one set, I have no idea how
> many more I can keep going. When my legs start shaking I stop. What would
> you do if you are stuck in middle of a squat? When you dump the barbell
> from back, ..

Don't dump it. Lower the bar down to the pins.

Lyle McDonald
September 28th 04, 11:06 PM
Keith Hobman wrote:

> In article >, Lyle McDonald
> > wrote:
>
>
>>fj wrote:
>>
>>>"A lot of people don't go anywhere near heavy enough on the squats, because
>>>they're afraid that they won't know what to do if they get "stuck" at the
>>>bottom. It's useful to learn how to bail out and dump the bar -- on a light
>>>weight of course -- so that you know what to do if it comes up. Not that
>>>it's likely to, but it's important that you're not afraid to exert yourself.
>>>"
>>>
>>>-quoted from another post
>>>
>>>Yes, I am one of those people who are afraid of squat with heavy weights. I
>>>never knew my max squat weight. When I finish one set, I have no idea how
>>>many more I can keep going. When my legs start shaking I stop. What would
>>>you do if you are stuck in middle of a squat? When you dump the barbell from
>>>back, is there any chance you might hurt your back or knees?
>>
>>I would set up in a squat rack with the safety pins set just below my
>>deepest squat point. If I got stuck, I would lower down and simply sink
>>a touch lower until the bar rested on the pins. Then wriggle out from
>>underneath.
>
>
> I thought you squatted ATTG Lyle?
>
> So wouldn't you have to incline your upper body slightly forward?

Huh?

Lyle

Keith Hobman
September 28th 04, 11:28 PM
In article >, Lyle McDonald
> wrote:

> Keith Hobman wrote:
>
> > In article >, Lyle McDonald
> > > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>fj wrote:
> >>
> >>>"A lot of people don't go anywhere near heavy enough on the squats, because
> >>>they're afraid that they won't know what to do if they get "stuck" at the
> >>>bottom. It's useful to learn how to bail out and dump the bar -- on a light
> >>>weight of course -- so that you know what to do if it comes up. Not that
> >>>it's likely to, but it's important that you're not afraid to exert
yourself.
> >>>"
> >>>
> >>>-quoted from another post
> >>>
> >>>Yes, I am one of those people who are afraid of squat with heavy weights. I
> >>>never knew my max squat weight. When I finish one set, I have no idea how
> >>>many more I can keep going. When my legs start shaking I stop. What would
> >>>you do if you are stuck in middle of a squat? When you dump the
barbell from
> >>>back, is there any chance you might hurt your back or knees?
> >>
> >>I would set up in a squat rack with the safety pins set just below my
> >>deepest squat point. If I got stuck, I would lower down and simply sink
> >>a touch lower until the bar rested on the pins. Then wriggle out from
> >>underneath.
> >
> >
> > I thought you squatted ATTG Lyle?
> >
> > So wouldn't you have to incline your upper body slightly forward?
>
> Huh?

Well...

Since I've been doing the olympic squat and trying going pretty close to
1RM I've been mulling over the idea of what is going to happen if I fail
(which hasn't happened). Because I can't get any lower in my squat and the
racks only adjust at about 6" increments. So basically if I fail since I
can't go any lower I'm going to have to either tip over forward or
backwards I figure.

I was ASSuming since you go calves to hamstrings you'd have to do the same
thing.

Lyle McDonald
September 29th 04, 12:52 AM
Keith Hobman wrote:

> In article >, Lyle McDonald
> > wrote:
>
>
>>Keith Hobman wrote:
>>
>>
>>>In article >, Lyle McDonald
> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>fj wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"A lot of people don't go anywhere near heavy enough on the squats, because
>>>>>they're afraid that they won't know what to do if they get "stuck" at the
>>>>>bottom. It's useful to learn how to bail out and dump the bar -- on a light
>>>>>weight of course -- so that you know what to do if it comes up. Not that
>>>>>it's likely to, but it's important that you're not afraid to exert
>
> yourself.
>
>>>>>"
>>>>>
>>>>>-quoted from another post
>>>>>
>>>>>Yes, I am one of those people who are afraid of squat with heavy weights. I
>>>>>never knew my max squat weight. When I finish one set, I have no idea how
>>>>>many more I can keep going. When my legs start shaking I stop. What would
>>>>>you do if you are stuck in middle of a squat? When you dump the
>
> barbell from
>
>>>>>back, is there any chance you might hurt your back or knees?
>>>>
>>>>I would set up in a squat rack with the safety pins set just below my
>>>>deepest squat point. If I got stuck, I would lower down and simply sink
>>>>a touch lower until the bar rested on the pins. Then wriggle out from
>>>>underneath.
>>>
>>>
>>>I thought you squatted ATTG Lyle?
>>>
>>>So wouldn't you have to incline your upper body slightly forward?
>>
>>Huh?
>
>
> Well...
>
> Since I've been doing the olympic squat and trying going pretty close to
> 1RM I've been mulling over the idea of what is going to happen if I fail
> (which hasn't happened). Because I can't get any lower in my squat and the
> racks only adjust at about 6" increments. So basically if I fail since I
> can't go any lower I'm going to have to either tip over forward or
> backwards I figure.
>
> I was ASSuming since you go calves to hamstrings you'd have to do the same
> thing.

I just don't miss reps. :)

I've dumped a bar forwards, can't really recommend it as the flexion has
to come out of some part of the back and you have to take the bar over
the head.

In the case of a high bar OL squat where I got stuck, I'd lower as low
as I could go and dump it off my back onto the pins.

If I were using bumpers outside of the rack, I wouldn't bother lowering
first, I'd push the bar back and move forwards.

Lyle

Jim Ranieri
September 29th 04, 02:01 PM
"fj" > wrote in message
...
> "A lot of people don't go anywhere near heavy enough on the squats,
because
> they're afraid that they won't know what to do if they get "stuck" at the
> bottom. It's useful to learn how to bail out and dump the bar -- on a
light
> weight of course -- so that you know what to do if it comes up. Not that
> it's likely to, but it's important that you're not afraid to exert
yourself.
> "
>
> -quoted from another post
>
> Yes, I am one of those people who are afraid of squat with heavy weights.
I
> never knew my max squat weight. When I finish one set, I have no idea how
> many more I can keep going. When my legs start shaking I stop. What would
> you do if you are stuck in middle of a squat? When you dump the barbell
from
> back, is there any chance you might hurt your back or knees?
>
> Any tips for lifting heavy weight and avoid injury?
>


If you don't have a rack, you could always do front squats. Not exactly the
same, but easier to dump if necessary.

Donovan Rebbechi
September 29th 04, 02:32 PM
On 2004-09-28, fj > wrote:

> Yes, I am one of those people who are afraid of squat with heavy weights. I
> never knew my max squat weight. When I finish one set, I have no idea how
> many more I can keep going. When my legs start shaking I stop. What would
> you do if you are stuck in middle of a squat?

This has simply never happened to me. You're most likely to fail at
the bottom. If you got stuck in the middle, you could always lower it.

> When you dump the barbell from
> back, is there any chance you might hurt your back or knees?

When you squat in a cage, you should set it up so that the supports are
just below the bottom of the movement. To put the bar down, it should
suffice to roll forward a little at the bottom of your ROM.

*DON'T* just let go of the the bar from halfway through the movement
or something like that.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

T. David Bamford
September 29th 04, 05:45 PM
On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 15:30:24 -0600, Lyle McDonald
> wrote:

>fj wrote:
>> "A lot of people don't go anywhere near heavy enough on the squats, because
>> they're afraid that they won't know what to do if they get "stuck" at the
>> bottom. It's useful to learn how to bail out and dump the bar -- on a light
>> weight of course -- so that you know what to do if it comes up. Not that
>> it's likely to, but it's important that you're not afraid to exert yourself.
>> "
>>
>> -quoted from another post
>>
>> Yes, I am one of those people who are afraid of squat with heavy weights. I
>> never knew my max squat weight. When I finish one set, I have no idea how
>> many more I can keep going. When my legs start shaking I stop. What would
>> you do if you are stuck in middle of a squat? When you dump the barbell from
>> back, is there any chance you might hurt your back or knees?
>
>I would set up in a squat rack with the safety pins set just below my
>deepest squat point. If I got stuck, I would lower down and simply sink
>a touch lower until the bar rested on the pins. Then wriggle out from
>underneath.
>
>Lyle

And, if you can't afford or don't have a power rack, use a pair of
those plastic saw-horses you can pick up at Home Depot and other
places. They work like a charm and will support hundreds of pounds
quite well. For me, they just happen to be the perfect height.

David

T. David Bamford
September 29th 04, 05:51 PM
On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 13:32:51 +0000 (UTC), Donovan Rebbechi
> wrote:

>On 2004-09-28, fj > wrote:
>
>> Yes, I am one of those people who are afraid of squat with heavy weights. I
>> never knew my max squat weight. When I finish one set, I have no idea how
>> many more I can keep going. When my legs start shaking I stop. What would
>> you do if you are stuck in middle of a squat?
>
>This has simply never happened to me. You're most likely to fail at
>the bottom. If you got stuck in the middle, you could always lower it.
>
>> When you dump the barbell from
>> back, is there any chance you might hurt your back or knees?
>
>When you squat in a cage, you should set it up so that the supports are
>just below the bottom of the movement. To put the bar down, it should
>suffice to roll forward a little at the bottom of your ROM.
>
>*DON'T* just let go of the the bar from halfway through the movement
>or something like that.

Really. Just because you can't come up from a squat is no reason to
panic. Just go back down - under control - and set the damn bar on
the pins. I just allow the weight to compress me more than I would
normally, and there ya go. (This ASSumes you have your pins set at
the right level.)

David, been squished on ocassion. No big.

Elzinator
September 29th 04, 08:04 PM
Donovan Rebbechi > wrote in message >...
> On 2004-09-28, fj > wrote:
>
> > Yes, I am one of those people who are afraid of squat with heavy weights. I
> > never knew my max squat weight. When I finish one set, I have no idea how
> > many more I can keep going. When my legs start shaking I stop. What would
> > you do if you are stuck in middle of a squat?
>
> This has simply never happened to me. You're most likely to fail at
> the bottom. If you got stuck in the middle, you could always lower it.
>
> > When you dump the barbell from
> > back, is there any chance you might hurt your back or knees?
>
> When you squat in a cage, you should set it up so that the supports are
> just below the bottom of the movement. To put the bar down, it should
> suffice to roll forward a little at the bottom of your ROM.
>
> *DON'T* just let go of the the bar from halfway through the movement
> or something like that.

Huh? And if failure is at midpoint, up or down depending on the lift,
continue??That's what failure means: fail to go any further. You may
have NO choice but to dump it. Anyone who has done OL lifts should
even dump it just to know what its like, instead of trying to save it
and suffer injury. I know that first hand.

Donovan Rebbechi
September 29th 04, 08:13 PM
On 2004-09-29, Elzinator > wrote:

> Huh? And if failure is at midpoint, up or down depending on the lift,
> continue??That's what failure means: fail to go any further.

When you fail on the concentric portion of the lift, you can still lower
the weight under control.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Stephen Mulholland
September 29th 04, 09:25 PM
"Jim Ranieri" > wrote in message
...
>
> "fj" > wrote in message
> ...
> If you don't have a rack, you could always do front squats. Not exactly
the
> same, but easier to dump if necessary.

I don't agree, Jim. I think it's easier to throw the weight off from behind
than from the front. I've had to do both. :) Just once or twice, though.
There's no safety rack where I train. And if one front-squats using a
cossack grip, it's damn near impossible to dump the weight. With the weight
on your back, if you get stuck in the hole, it's relatively easy (well, at
the weights I was using - 250-odd pounds for sets) to let the weight roll
off your back (I'm not describing this very well, I fear). However, with
front squats, if you get stuck in the hole, you have to get the bar past
your knees to the ground - falling forward won't do it, but falling
backwards, with the weight on your back, will certainly get the bar off
you..dammit, does anyone understand what I'm saying?

And I haven't squatted in ages, anyway. So what do I know.

Stephen


>
>
>


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Anna Martelli Ravenscroft
September 29th 04, 10:14 PM
Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
> On 2004-09-29, Elzinator > wrote:
>
>
>>Huh? And if failure is at midpoint, up or down depending on the lift,
>>continue??That's what failure means: fail to go any further.
>
>
> When you fail on the concentric portion of the lift, you can still lower
> the weight under control.
>
> Cheers,
um, I've actually had my legs "give out" on me on a squat, as in,
immediate, sudden, leg muscles saying "i've took all i can and i can't
take no more" kinda failure. I had a place to dump the bar (my couch
actually) off my back, but that was after I was already down as far as I
was gonna go... It wasn't "under control" though - it was quite sudden.
Surprised the hell outta me! I knew I was pushing it on volume at that
point, but the suddenness was kinda shocking. I was sure glad to have
somewhere to dump the bar though...

Anna

Keith Hobman
September 29th 04, 10:27 PM
In article >, Anna Martelli Ravenscroft
> wrote:

> Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
> > On 2004-09-29, Elzinator > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Huh? And if failure is at midpoint, up or down depending on the lift,
> >>continue??That's what failure means: fail to go any further.
> >
> >
> > When you fail on the concentric portion of the lift, you can still lower
> > the weight under control.
> >
> > Cheers,
> um, I've actually had my legs "give out" on me on a squat, as in,
> immediate, sudden, leg muscles saying "i've took all i can and i can't
> take no more" kinda failure. I had a place to dump the bar (my couch
> actually) off my back, but that was after I was already down as far as I
> was gonna go...

You were back-squatting your couch?

Impressive. Especially getting under it.

Sh0t
September 30th 04, 12:09 AM
Lyle McDonald wrote:

> fj wrote:
>
>> "A lot of people don't go anywhere near heavy enough on the squats,
>> because
>> they're afraid that they won't know what to do if they get "stuck" at the
>> bottom. It's useful to learn how to bail out and dump the bar -- on a
>> light
>> weight of course -- so that you know what to do if it comes up. Not that
>> it's likely to, but it's important that you're not afraid to exert
>> yourself.
>> "
>>
>> -quoted from another post
>>
>> Yes, I am one of those people who are afraid of squat with heavy
>> weights. I
>> never knew my max squat weight. When I finish one set, I have no idea how
>> many more I can keep going. When my legs start shaking I stop. What would
>> you do if you are stuck in middle of a squat? When you dump the
>> barbell from
>> back, is there any chance you might hurt your back or knees?
>
>
> I would set up in a squat rack with the safety pins set just below my
> deepest squat point. If I got stuck, I would lower down and simply sink
> a touch lower until the bar rested on the pins. Then wriggle out from
> underneath.
>
> Lyle
>
That's what i do. THe Power Rack and I are great friends.

elzinator
September 30th 04, 12:28 AM
On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 19:13:44 +0000 (UTC), Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
>On 2004-09-29, Elzinator > wrote:
>
>> Huh? And if failure is at midpoint, up or down depending on the lift,
>> continue??That's what failure means: fail to go any further.
>
>When you fail on the concentric portion of the lift, you can still lower
>the weight under control.

Not always. If any further movement increases the risk for injury,
drop it.


Beelzibub

"Modern man must rediscover a deeper source of his own spiritual life. To do this,he is obligated
to struggle with evil, to confront his own shadow, to integrate the devil."
- Carl Jung

elzinator
September 30th 04, 12:30 AM
On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 15:27:23 -0600, Keith Hobman wrote:
>In article >, Anna Martelli Ravenscroft
> wrote:
>
>> Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
>> > On 2004-09-29, Elzinator > wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >>Huh? And if failure is at midpoint, up or down depending on the lift,
>> >>continue??That's what failure means: fail to go any further.
>> >
>> >
>> > When you fail on the concentric portion of the lift, you can still lower
>> > the weight under control.
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> um, I've actually had my legs "give out" on me on a squat, as in,
>> immediate, sudden, leg muscles saying "i've took all i can and i can't
>> take no more" kinda failure. I had a place to dump the bar (my couch
>> actually) off my back, but that was after I was already down as far as I
>> was gonna go...
>
>You were back-squatting your couch?
>
>Impressive. Especially getting under it.

hehe

One of the well-seasoned powerlifters back in Oregon told me that the
test of a true powerlifter is moving/lifting furniture. He was spot
on.


Beelzibub

"Modern man must rediscover a deeper source of his own spiritual life. To do this,he is obligated
to struggle with evil, to confront his own shadow, to integrate the devil."
- Carl Jung

elzinator
September 30th 04, 12:40 AM
On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 21:25:24 +0100, Stephen Mulholland wrote:
>
>"Jim Ranieri" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> "fj" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> If you don't have a rack, you could always do front squats. Not exactly
>the
>> same, but easier to dump if necessary.
>
>I don't agree, Jim. I think it's easier to throw the weight off from behind
>than from the front. I've had to do both. :) Just once or twice, though.
>There's no safety rack where I train. And if one front-squats using a
>cossack grip, it's damn near impossible to dump the weight. With the weight
>on your back, if you get stuck in the hole, it's relatively easy (well, at
>the weights I was using - 250-odd pounds for sets) to let the weight roll
>off your back (I'm not describing this very well, I fear). However, with
>front squats, if you get stuck in the hole, you have to get the bar past
>your knees to the ground - falling forward won't do it, but falling
>backwards, with the weight on your back, will certainly get the bar off
>you..dammit, does anyone understand what I'm saying?

Yup. I've had to dump the bar in both: front and back squats.

Once in back squat, I guess my nervous system 'blew a circuit': was in
the middle of an ascent from the bottom and 1/2 way up, the nerve
signals to my back just shut down. I dumped the bar behind me. I had
no choice and it was a split-second reaction.
(this has happened three times, but I've saved the weight twice by
immediately recovering. It is weird as hell, because the rest of my
body realizes that there are no back muscles firing and everything
else tries to compensate. It basically looks like I'm going to fall.
Lyle saw this once. Dr. Bob is guessing that it has to do with either
the cervical or lumbar disc issue.)

Once on the front squat, I sat down on my heels and got stuck. I
dumped the bar on the cage pins and got dirty looks from the skinny
dudes doing 1/4 squats in the cage next to me. I smiled sweetly.

>And I haven't squatted in ages, anyway. So what do I know.

You used to squat. You have memories and visual images.

Beelzibub

"Modern man must rediscover a deeper source of his own spiritual life. To do this,he is obligated
to struggle with evil, to confront his own shadow, to integrate the devil."
- Carl Jung

Jim Ranieri
September 30th 04, 01:02 AM
"Stephen Mulholland" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jim Ranieri" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "fj" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > If you don't have a rack, you could always do front squats. Not exactly
> the
> > same, but easier to dump if necessary.
>
> I don't agree, Jim. I think it's easier to throw the weight off from
behind
> than from the front. I've had to do both. :) Just once or twice, though.
> There's no safety rack where I train. And if one front-squats using a
> cossack grip, it's damn near impossible to dump the weight. With the
weight
> on your back, if you get stuck in the hole, it's relatively easy (well, at
> the weights I was using - 250-odd pounds for sets) to let the weight roll
> off your back (I'm not describing this very well, I fear). However, with
> front squats, if you get stuck in the hole, you have to get the bar past
> your knees to the ground - falling forward won't do it, but falling
> backwards, with the weight on your back, will certainly get the bar off
> you..dammit, does anyone understand what I'm saying?
>
> And I haven't squatted in ages, anyway. So what do I know.
>

Yeah, I understand what you're saying. With a cossack grip, it would be damn
difficult. I do the "wrists bent back at an ungodly angle" grip and it
*feels* like it would be simple enough to dump if need be - although I never
have. Plus, it's quite a bit less weight than I'd be using for a back squat
which makes it less scary.

Kirk Roy
September 30th 04, 03:20 AM
On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 18:30:35 -0500, elzinator
> wrote:
>On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 15:27:23 -0600, Keith Hobman wrote:
>>In article >, Anna Martelli Ravenscroft
> wrote:
>>
>>> Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
>>> > On 2004-09-29, Elzinator > wrote:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >>Huh? And if failure is at midpoint, up or down depending on the lift,
>>> >>continue??That's what failure means: fail to go any further.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > When you fail on the concentric portion of the lift, you can still lower
>>> > the weight under control.
>>> >
>>> > Cheers,
>>> um, I've actually had my legs "give out" on me on a squat, as in,
>>> immediate, sudden, leg muscles saying "i've took all i can and i can't
>>> take no more" kinda failure. I had a place to dump the bar (my couch
>>> actually) off my back, but that was after I was already down as far as I
>>> was gonna go...
>>
>>You were back-squatting your couch?
>>
>>Impressive. Especially getting under it.
>
>hehe
>
>One of the well-seasoned powerlifters back in Oregon told me that the
>test of a true powerlifter is moving/lifting furniture. He was spot
>on.

I recently moved, which included moving my piano down a hill through
the back yard. I took one end and two friends, neither one a lifter,
took the other. They needed to stop and take a break (they needed a
break getting it into the truck as well) although I was fine. They're
both bigger than me too. I just thought that was cool and was finally
a practical use for the strength I've developed. It was also a huge
contrast to when the piano was moved 3 years ago just before I started
lifting. 3 of us really struggled with it then (including me).

Kirk

elzinator
September 30th 04, 03:45 AM
On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 22:20:40 -0400, Kirk Roy wrote:
>On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 18:30:35 -0500, elzinator
> wrote:
>>On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 15:27:23 -0600, Keith Hobman wrote:
>>>In article >, Anna Martelli Ravenscroft
> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
>>>> > On 2004-09-29, Elzinator > wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >>Huh? And if failure is at midpoint, up or down depending on the lift,
>>>> >>continue??That's what failure means: fail to go any further.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > When you fail on the concentric portion of the lift, you can still lower
>>>> > the weight under control.
>>>> >
>>>> > Cheers,
>>>> um, I've actually had my legs "give out" on me on a squat, as in,
>>>> immediate, sudden, leg muscles saying "i've took all i can and i can't
>>>> take no more" kinda failure. I had a place to dump the bar (my couch
>>>> actually) off my back, but that was after I was already down as far as I
>>>> was gonna go...
>>>
>>>You were back-squatting your couch?
>>>
>>>Impressive. Especially getting under it.
>>
>>hehe
>>
>>One of the well-seasoned powerlifters back in Oregon told me that the
>>test of a true powerlifter is moving/lifting furniture. He was spot
>>on.
>
>I recently moved, which included moving my piano down a hill through
>the back yard. I took one end and two friends, neither one a lifter,
>took the other. They needed to stop and take a break (they needed a
>break getting it into the truck as well) although I was fine. They're
>both bigger than me too. I just thought that was cool and was finally
>a practical use for the strength I've developed. It was also a huge
>contrast to when the piano was moved 3 years ago just before I started
>lifting. 3 of us really struggled with it then (including me).

Whenever I move, I recruit powerlifters (except in Ohio; they were
scarce). Had 4 of them help me move **** in Oregon. In fact, two of us
female powerlifters (myself and Amalia) moved a big bulky heavy oak
desk last Sunday. I guess we passed the test several times over.

Powerlifters are functional lifters :)

Pianos are not easy to move!

Beelzibub

"Modern man must rediscover a deeper source of his own spiritual life. To do this,he is obligated
to struggle with evil, to confront his own shadow, to integrate the devil."
- Carl Jung

Anna Martelli Ravenscroft
September 30th 04, 07:57 AM
elzinator wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 22:20:40 -0400, Kirk Roy wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 18:30:35 -0500, elzinator
> wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 15:27:23 -0600, Keith Hobman wrote:
>>>
>>>>In article >, Anna Martelli Ravenscroft
> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On 2004-09-29, Elzinator > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Huh? And if failure is at midpoint, up or down depending on the lift,
>>>>>>>continue??That's what failure means: fail to go any further.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>When you fail on the concentric portion of the lift, you can still lower
>>>>>>the weight under control.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Cheers,
>>>>>
>>>>>um, I've actually had my legs "give out" on me on a squat, as in,
>>>>>immediate, sudden, leg muscles saying "i've took all i can and i can't
>>>>>take no more" kinda failure. I had a place to dump the bar (my couch
>>>>>actually) off my back, but that was after I was already down as far as I
>>>>>was gonna go...
>>>>
>>>>You were back-squatting your couch?
>>>>
>>>>Impressive. Especially getting under it.
>>>
>>>hehe
>>>
>>>One of the well-seasoned powerlifters back in Oregon told me that the
>>>test of a true powerlifter is moving/lifting furniture. He was spot
>>>on.
>>
>>I recently moved, which included moving my piano down a hill through
>>the back yard. I took one end and two friends, neither one a lifter,
>>took the other. They needed to stop and take a break (they needed a
>>break getting it into the truck as well) although I was fine. They're
>>both bigger than me too. I just thought that was cool and was finally
>>a practical use for the strength I've developed. It was also a huge
>>contrast to when the piano was moved 3 years ago just before I started
>>lifting. 3 of us really struggled with it then (including me).
>
>
> Whenever I move, I recruit powerlifters (except in Ohio; they were
> scarce). Had 4 of them help me move **** in Oregon. In fact, two of us
> female powerlifters (myself and Amalia) moved a big bulky heavy oak
> desk last Sunday. I guess we passed the test several times over.
>
> Powerlifters are functional lifters :)

Oh yeah. My DH jokes about me weightlifting so I can handle the luggage
(we travel a LOT for work). One of the reasons I'm really happy to have
found a way to do OH press that doesn't mess up my shoulders (using DBs
with palms facing in toward middle) is that I often struggle with
putting luggage in overhead bins - and this will really help with that!

> Pianos are not easy to move!

Very true. In Minnesnowta, my parents were told that there's a special
piano movers' bond - not just any moving company can do piano moving.

Anna

DeWayne
September 30th 04, 08:33 AM
"elzinator" > wrote in message
...

>
> Whenever I move, I recruit powerlifters (except in Ohio; they were
> scarce). Had 4 of them help me move **** in Oregon.

Bummer! We flush it in Indiana. Hope you moved somewhere they have sewers.

DRS
September 30th 04, 02:49 PM
"elzinator" > wrote in message

> On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 15:27:23 -0600, Keith Hobman wrote:

[...]

>> You were back-squatting your couch?
>>
>> Impressive. Especially getting under it.
>
> hehe
>
> One of the well-seasoned powerlifters back in Oregon told me that the
> test of a true powerlifter is moving/lifting furniture. He was spot
> on.

A few weeks back #1 son and I moved one of those bed-couch thingies from my
Dad's place out onto his trailer for transportation to #2 son's place. I
swear at one stage I stopped and said, "This wouldn't be so bad if it had a
bar on it."

--

"Self-delusion as a coping tool has always been a fairly useful strategy for
me."
Dally

billydee
September 30th 04, 05:20 PM
elzinator > wrote in message >...
> On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 19:13:44 +0000 (UTC), Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
> >On 2004-09-29, Elzinator > wrote:
> >
> >> Huh? And if failure is at midpoint, up or down depending on the lift,
> >> continue??That's what failure means: fail to go any further.
> >
> >When you fail on the concentric portion of the lift, you can still lower
> >the weight under control.
>
> Not always. If any further movement increases the risk for injury,
> drop it.
>
>
> Beelzibub
and sometimes you have no choice. i lost balance on a squat once and
fell backwards. luckily the pins were set properly and I didn't hit my
head on the bar going down. it only bruised my ego.

Jeff Finlayson
September 30th 04, 06:51 PM
Elzinator wrote:
> Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
>> fj wrote:

>>When you squat in a cage, you should set it up so that the supports are
>>just below the bottom of the movement. To put the bar down, it should
>>suffice to roll forward a little at the bottom of your ROM.
>>
>>*DON'T* just let go of the the bar from halfway through the movement
>>or something like that.
>
> Huh? And if failure is at midpoint, up or down depending on the lift,
> continue??That's what failure means: fail to go any further. You may
> have NO choice but to dump it. Anyone who has done OL lifts should
> even dump it just to know what its like, instead of trying to save it
> and suffer injury. I know that first hand.

Dumping the bar isn't risk free either.

Lyle McDonald
September 30th 04, 07:58 PM
Jeff Finlayson wrote:
> Elzinator wrote:
>
>> Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
>>
>>> fj wrote:
>
>
>>> When you squat in a cage, you should set it up so that the supports are
>>> just below the bottom of the movement. To put the bar down, it should
>>> suffice to roll forward a little at the bottom of your ROM.
>>>
>>> *DON'T* just let go of the the bar from halfway through the movement
>>> or something like that.
>>
>>
>> Huh? And if failure is at midpoint, up or down depending on the lift,
>> continue??That's what failure means: fail to go any further. You may
>> have NO choice but to dump it. Anyone who has done OL lifts should
>> even dump it just to know what its like, instead of trying to save it
>> and suffer injury. I know that first hand.
>
>
> Dumping the bar isn't risk free either.

no, but in the case of OL's, it's a lot less risky than trying to save a
lift and tearing your rotator cuff.

Like anything, you need to practice dumping the bar so you know what to
do when it happens with real weights.

In the case of an OL missed to the front, you let go/push the bar away
from you and push yourself backwards.

If you're going overhead and start to lose it back behind you, you push
the bar back which pushes yourself forwards out of the way.

In the case that you end up toppling backwards with a bar coming down on
you, thank the gods that a standard sized plate will keep the bar from
crushing you.

Lyle

Lyle McDonald
September 30th 04, 08:00 PM
billydee wrote:

> elzinator > wrote in message >...
>
>>On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 19:13:44 +0000 (UTC), Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
>>
>>>On 2004-09-29, Elzinator > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Huh? And if failure is at midpoint, up or down depending on the lift,
>>>>continue??That's what failure means: fail to go any further.
>>>
>>>When you fail on the concentric portion of the lift, you can still lower
>>>the weight under control.
>>
>>Not always. If any further movement increases the risk for injury,
>>drop it.
>>
>>
>>Beelzibub
>
> and sometimes you have no choice. i lost balance on a squat once and
> fell backwards. luckily the pins were set properly and I didn't hit my
> head on the bar going down. it only bruised my ego.

So during one of our (our = me and the two powerlifters in Austin) last
workouts at Gold's, some guys were doing lunges in place (not split
squats which would ahve made sense, lunges going forwards and pushing
backwards) outside of the squat rack.

We didn't see it exactly but on one rep, a guy got tipped backwards and
went down. The bar, loaded with 135+ locked itself up in the two leg
presses that happen to be way too ****ing close to that rack.

The bar also very nearly caught the guy using the leg press in the back
of the head.

Lyle

DRS
September 30th 04, 08:05 PM
"Lyle McDonald" > wrote in message


[...]

> So during one of our (our = me and the two powerlifters in Austin)
> last workouts at Gold's, some guys were doing lunges in place (not
> split squats which would ahve made sense, lunges going forwards and
> pushing backwards) outside of the squat rack.

I don't follow you here. You don't like lunges?

--

"Self-delusion as a coping tool has always been a fairly useful strategy for
me."
Dally

Donovan Rebbechi
September 30th 04, 08:16 PM
On 2004-09-30, Lyle McDonald > wrote:

> no, but in the case of OL's, it's a lot less risky than trying to save a
> lift and tearing your rotator cuff.
>
> Like anything, you need to practice dumping the bar so you know what to
> do when it happens with real weights.
>
> In the case of an OL missed to the front, you let go/push the bar away
> from you and push yourself backwards.
>
> If you're going overhead and start to lose it back behind you, you push
> the bar back which pushes yourself forwards out of the way.

FWIW, I was only talking about back squats -- never done front squats with
heavy weights. I don't think the bail-out technique I use for back squats
(basically setting the bar down on the pins, with a slight forward lean
if necessary) would work for front squats though -- partly because I go
deeper on front squats and partly because you can't lean forward without
losing the bar. Until you posted this, I had no idea how to bail out from
front squats.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Lyle McDonald
September 30th 04, 08:30 PM
DRS wrote:

> "Lyle McDonald" > wrote in message
>
>
> [...]
>
>
>>So during one of our (our = me and the two powerlifters in Austin)
>>last workouts at Gold's, some guys were doing lunges in place (not
>>split squats which would ahve made sense, lunges going forwards and
>>pushing backwards) outside of the squat rack.
>
>
> I don't follow you here. You don't like lunges?

No.

Not unless they keep retards from doing something useful that I want to do.

Lyle

Lyle McDonald
September 30th 04, 08:32 PM
Donovan Rebbechi wrote:

> On 2004-09-30, Lyle McDonald > wrote:
>
>
>>no, but in the case of OL's, it's a lot less risky than trying to save a
>>lift and tearing your rotator cuff.
>>
>>Like anything, you need to practice dumping the bar so you know what to
>>do when it happens with real weights.
>>
>>In the case of an OL missed to the front, you let go/push the bar away
>>from you and push yourself backwards.
>>
>>If you're going overhead and start to lose it back behind you, you push
>>the bar back which pushes yourself forwards out of the way.
>
>
> FWIW, I was only talking about back squats -- never done front squats with
> heavy weights. I don't think the bail-out technique I use for back squats
> (basically setting the bar down on the pins, with a slight forward lean
> if necessary) would work for front squats though -- partly because I go
> deeper on front squats and partly because you can't lean forward without
> losing the bar. Until you posted this, I had no idea how to bail out from
> front squats.

drop your elbows, push the bar forwards and push yourself backwards.
Same way you miss a clean.

Back in January or so, I was front squatting 225 for singles outside of
the cage, usually no problem. But legs were tired from endurance weenie
training and I descended on one rep and was just out of luck. Up on my
toes, bar forwards, it wasn't coming back up. So I dumped it. Elbows
down, push the bar away from me which pushed me back from the bar.

The entire leg room jumped when taht thing hit the floor (I wasn't using
bumper plates).

Lyle

DRS
September 30th 04, 08:34 PM
"Lyle McDonald" > wrote in message

> DRS wrote:
>> "Lyle McDonald" > wrote in message
>>
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>> So during one of our (our = me and the two powerlifters in Austin)
>>> last workouts at Gold's, some guys were doing lunges in place (not
>>> split squats which would ahve made sense, lunges going forwards and
>>> pushing backwards) outside of the squat rack.
>>
>> I don't follow you here. You don't like lunges?
>
> No.
>
> Not unless they keep retards from doing something useful that I want
> to do.

Uh-huh. And why don't you like them? As distinct from split (single leg?)
squats?

--

"Self-delusion as a coping tool has always been a fairly useful strategy for
me."
Dally

Lyle McDonald
September 30th 04, 09:11 PM
DRS wrote:
> "Lyle McDonald" > wrote in message
>
>
>>DRS wrote:
>>
>>>"Lyle McDonald" > wrote in message

>>>
>>>[...]
>>>
>>>
>>>>So during one of our (our = me and the two powerlifters in Austin)
>>>>last workouts at Gold's, some guys were doing lunges in place (not
>>>>split squats which would ahve made sense, lunges going forwards and
>>>>pushing backwards) outside of the squat rack.
>>>
>>>I don't follow you here. You don't like lunges?
>>
>>No.
>>
>>Not unless they keep retards from doing something useful that I want
>>to do.
>
>
> Uh-huh. And why don't you like them? As distinct from split (single leg?)
> squats?

Off the top of my head

a. The instability makes it nearly impossible to use any kind of decent
weight.

b. If you do use a decent weight, you have a tremendous amount of joint
impact forces upon heel strike. Not to mention the momentum of the bar
driving your torso forwards.

c. There are movements such as the split squat which let you train the
exact same thing while eliminating issues of 'a' and 'b'.

Yeah, fine you want to do high rep lunges or duck walking or something
for local muscular endurance, that's great.

AS a muscular strengthening exercise, I think lunges fail on a lot of
levels.

Lyle

MJL
October 1st 04, 03:49 AM
On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 19:02:07 -0500, "Jim Ranieri"
> wrote:

>
>"Stephen Mulholland" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> "Jim Ranieri" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >
>> > "fj" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> > If you don't have a rack, you could always do front squats. Not exactly
>> the
>> > same, but easier to dump if necessary.
>>
>> I don't agree, Jim. I think it's easier to throw the weight off from
>behind
>> than from the front. I've had to do both. :) Just once or twice, though.
>> There's no safety rack where I train. And if one front-squats using a
>> cossack grip, it's damn near impossible to dump the weight. With the
>weight
>> on your back, if you get stuck in the hole, it's relatively easy (well, at
>> the weights I was using - 250-odd pounds for sets) to let the weight roll
>> off your back (I'm not describing this very well, I fear). However, with
>> front squats, if you get stuck in the hole, you have to get the bar past
>> your knees to the ground - falling forward won't do it, but falling
>> backwards, with the weight on your back, will certainly get the bar off
>> you..dammit, does anyone understand what I'm saying?
>>
>> And I haven't squatted in ages, anyway. So what do I know.
>>
>
>Yeah, I understand what you're saying. With a cossack grip, it would be damn
>difficult. I do the "wrists bent back at an ungodly angle" grip and it
>*feels* like it would be simple enough to dump if need be - although I never
>have. Plus, it's quite a bit less weight than I'd be using for a back squat
>which makes it less scary.
>

Inertia, it IS a bitch.


--
http://www.texansfortruth.org/

Lyle McDonald
October 1st 04, 04:25 AM
MJL wrote:

>>Yeah, I understand what you're saying. With a cossack grip, it would be damn
>>difficult. I do the "wrists bent back at an ungodly angle" grip and it
>>*feels* like it would be simple enough to dump if need be - although I never
>>have. Plus, it's quite a bit less weight than I'd be using for a back squat
>>which makes it less scary.
>>
>
>
> Inertia, it IS a bitch.

You tend to learn this often (and painfully) when you bike or skates.
Lock up a wheel on something going fast and, well, inertia is a bitch.

Lyle

Keith Hobman
October 1st 04, 08:05 PM
In article >, Lyle McDonald
> wrote:

> MJL wrote:
>
> >>Yeah, I understand what you're saying. With a cossack grip, it would be damn
> >>difficult. I do the "wrists bent back at an ungodly angle" grip and it
> >>*feels* like it would be simple enough to dump if need be - although I never
> >>have. Plus, it's quite a bit less weight than I'd be using for a back squat
> >>which makes it less scary.
> >>
> >
> >
> > Inertia, it IS a bitch.
>
> You tend to learn this often (and painfully) when you bike or skates.
> Lock up a wheel on something going fast and, well, inertia is a bitch.
>

Yeah.

Or on a motorcycle at 35 mph when a stupid cyclist come flying in front of
you and you basically try and wrench the bike around on your right leg. As
I've painfully discovered.

Fortunately the rubber stayed on the road.

Lee Michaels
October 1st 04, 08:28 PM
"Keith Hobman" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, Lyle McDonald
> > wrote:
>
> > MJL wrote:
> >
> > >>Yeah, I understand what you're saying. With a cossack grip, it would
be damn
> > >>difficult. I do the "wrists bent back at an ungodly angle" grip and it
> > >>*feels* like it would be simple enough to dump if need be - although I
never
> > >>have. Plus, it's quite a bit less weight than I'd be using for a back
squat
> > >>which makes it less scary.
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > Inertia, it IS a bitch.
> >
> > You tend to learn this often (and painfully) when you bike or skates.
> > Lock up a wheel on something going fast and, well, inertia is a bitch.
> >
>
> Yeah.
>
> Or on a motorcycle at 35 mph when a stupid cyclist come flying in front of
> you and you basically try and wrench the bike around on your right leg. As
> I've painfully discovered.
>
> Fortunately the rubber stayed on the road.

Ouch, sounds painful.

Any lasting injuries??

I have a wild tale from my youth involving inertia myself. I got banged up
a little. But two other guys with me got it much worst than me.

Keith Hobman
October 1st 04, 08:59 PM
In article <[email protected]_s54>, "Lee Michaels"
> wrote:

> "Keith Hobman" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >, Lyle McDonald
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > MJL wrote:
> > >
> > > >>Yeah, I understand what you're saying. With a cossack grip, it would
> be damn
> > > >>difficult. I do the "wrists bent back at an ungodly angle" grip and it
> > > >>*feels* like it would be simple enough to dump if need be - although I
> never
> > > >>have. Plus, it's quite a bit less weight than I'd be using for a back
> squat
> > > >>which makes it less scary.
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Inertia, it IS a bitch.
> > >
> > > You tend to learn this often (and painfully) when you bike or skates.
> > > Lock up a wheel on something going fast and, well, inertia is a bitch.
> > >
> >
> > Yeah.
> >
> > Or on a motorcycle at 35 mph when a stupid cyclist come flying in front of
> > you and you basically try and wrench the bike around on your right leg. As
> > I've painfully discovered.
> >
> > Fortunately the rubber stayed on the road.
>
> Ouch, sounds painful.
>
> Any lasting injuries??
>
> I have a wild tale from my youth involving inertia myself. I got banged up
> a little. But two other guys with me got it much worst than me.

Hell. I didn't really want the Hobmanization spectre going around two
months before Laughlin.

Suffice it to say the knee is sore and swollen. I'm not too confident
about the doc's diagnosis, since they only took an x-ray. The good news is
nothing torn, except possibly some meniscus. The bad news is inflammation
all over the place.

I don't think it will be that big a deal. My hi-bar olympic squat sucks
big time anyhow and I'm too darn stubborn to go back to the power squat,
since I'm converting to olympic lifting. So I'll focus on the bench for a
few weeks.

I'm hoping to get a 400 raw bench in Laughlin. The squat ain't gonna be
much better. My conventional deadlift has been coming up well tho, I think
in part because of the hi-bar squat.