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bleh
October 5th 04, 02:22 AM
As advised by Keith Hobman and others, I have been following the
Sheiko Beginner routine. My deadlift had been going up like crazy,
however my squat was only going up 10 pounds every 8 weeks and my
bench press was going nowhere. This was while doing a Westside routine
and it was advised that I might see better progress if I spent more
time performing the actual lifts.

I had heard the Sheiko routine was pretty intense but it is actually
starting to overwhelm me. I have been struggling to locate where my
weak point in the bench press is. After getting into the repetitive
heavy Sheiko sets, it became apparent it was my shoulders. It's pretty
easy to figure out when the bar path is next to impossible to control
with the bar flying back over your face. It will be interesting to see
how things fair when I test my 1rm on this lift after I'm finished
with this cycle.

The was the routine is planned in regards to the deadlift leaves me
with some questions. I found it next to impossible to complete all the
deadlift sets for the first workout of the day. It was excruciatingly
painful in my hip flexors...and not the good kind of pain. I have read
time and time again that deadlifting for reps is counterproductive. It
takes a huge toll on your central nervous system and it isn't a lift
that requires tons of technique to be memorized. I was physically
unable to complete the deadlift sets for the days 2nd workout. I had
to drop them.

When it comes to squats, this routine is kicking my ass almost as bad
as the deadlifts. I am usually able to complete all the planned sets
for both workouts per day, but I can't perform sets every 30 seconds.
I have to take up to 5 min rest breaks after some of the heavier sets
just because my hip flexors ache so badly.

Can anyone relate to my experiences with this routine?

Hugh Beyer
October 5th 04, 12:36 PM
(bleh) wrote in
om:

> As advised by Keith Hobman and others, I have been following the
> Sheiko Beginner routine. My deadlift had been going up like crazy,
> however my squat was only going up 10 pounds every 8 weeks and my
> bench press was going nowhere. This was while doing a Westside routine
> and it was advised that I might see better progress if I spent more
> time performing the actual lifts.
>
> I had heard the Sheiko routine was pretty intense but it is actually
> starting to overwhelm me. I have been struggling to locate where my
> weak point in the bench press is. After getting into the repetitive
> heavy Sheiko sets, it became apparent it was my shoulders. It's pretty
> easy to figure out when the bar path is next to impossible to control
> with the bar flying back over your face. It will be interesting to see
> how things fair when I test my 1rm on this lift after I'm finished
> with this cycle.
>
> The was the routine is planned in regards to the deadlift leaves me
> with some questions. I found it next to impossible to complete all the
> deadlift sets for the first workout of the day. It was excruciatingly
> painful in my hip flexors...and not the good kind of pain. I have read
> time and time again that deadlifting for reps is counterproductive. It
> takes a huge toll on your central nervous system and it isn't a lift
> that requires tons of technique to be memorized. I was physically
> unable to complete the deadlift sets for the days 2nd workout. I had
> to drop them.
>
> When it comes to squats, this routine is kicking my ass almost as bad
> as the deadlifts. I am usually able to complete all the planned sets
> for both workouts per day, but I can't perform sets every 30 seconds.
> I have to take up to 5 min rest breaks after some of the heavier sets
> just because my hip flexors ache so badly.
>
> Can anyone relate to my experiences with this routine?
>

If it hurts, don't do it.

Keith has posted a whole bunch about the need to work up to the volume in
a Sheiko program. See his recent post outlining a workout plan where you
add a set a week.

No doubt he will weigh in more authoritatively, but in the absence of
better advice I'd eliminate the second workout in a day and do no more
than 2 sets at the top weight each lift. See if that doesn't bring things
back into the doable range. Than you can build the volume back up, slowly
over time.

Another question: Were you honest about your starting weights and the
percentages? Didn't round up to the next 10 pounds or so? Another approach
would be to arbitrarily drop all the poundages--calculate them off of a
lower max. That would keep the volume up by lowering intensity.

Personally I haven't had these issues, but everyone's different. I'm
inclined to think that 85% of a pussy-ass RM is experientially different
from 85% of a Highly Adapted RM.

Hugh


--
One puppy had its dewclaws removed in the creation of this post, but for
reasons of hygene and it really doesn't hurt them at all.

Keith Hobman
October 5th 04, 03:21 PM
In article >, Hugh Beyer
> wrote:

> (bleh) wrote in
> om:
>
> > As advised by Keith Hobman and others, I have been following the
> > Sheiko Beginner routine. My deadlift had been going up like crazy,
> > however my squat was only going up 10 pounds every 8 weeks and my
> > bench press was going nowhere. This was while doing a Westside routine
> > and it was advised that I might see better progress if I spent more
> > time performing the actual lifts.
> >
> > I had heard the Sheiko routine was pretty intense but it is actually
> > starting to overwhelm me. I have been struggling to locate where my
> > weak point in the bench press is. After getting into the repetitive
> > heavy Sheiko sets, it became apparent it was my shoulders. It's pretty
> > easy to figure out when the bar path is next to impossible to control
> > with the bar flying back over your face. It will be interesting to see
> > how things fair when I test my 1rm on this lift after I'm finished
> > with this cycle.
> >
> > The was the routine is planned in regards to the deadlift leaves me
> > with some questions. I found it next to impossible to complete all the
> > deadlift sets for the first workout of the day. It was excruciatingly
> > painful in my hip flexors...and not the good kind of pain. I have read
> > time and time again that deadlifting for reps is counterproductive. It
> > takes a huge toll on your central nervous system and it isn't a lift
> > that requires tons of technique to be memorized. I was physically
> > unable to complete the deadlift sets for the days 2nd workout. I had
> > to drop them.
> >
> > When it comes to squats, this routine is kicking my ass almost as bad
> > as the deadlifts. I am usually able to complete all the planned sets
> > for both workouts per day, but I can't perform sets every 30 seconds.
> > I have to take up to 5 min rest breaks after some of the heavier sets
> > just because my hip flexors ache so badly.
> >
> > Can anyone relate to my experiences with this routine?
> >
>
> If it hurts, don't do it.
>
> Keith has posted a whole bunch about the need to work up to the volume in
> a Sheiko program. See his recent post outlining a workout plan where you
> add a set a week.
>
> No doubt he will weigh in more authoritatively, but in the absence of
> better advice I'd eliminate the second workout in a day and do no more
> than 2 sets at the top weight each lift. See if that doesn't bring things
> back into the doable range. Than you can build the volume back up, slowly
> over time.
>
> Another question: Were you honest about your starting weights and the
> percentages? Didn't round up to the next 10 pounds or so? Another approach
> would be to arbitrarily drop all the poundages--calculate them off of a
> lower max. That would keep the volume up by lowering intensity.
>
> Personally I haven't had these issues, but everyone's different. I'm
> inclined to think that 85% of a pussy-ass RM is experientially different
> from 85% of a Highly Adapted RM.

I think Hugh has covered pretty much all the bases.

The overall volume of the beginners Sheiko is still very high. If you
aren't used to volume I think it is both unnecessary and even
counter-productive to go that high.

So start gradually and work up over time.

In the deadlift I've never had a huge problem with the volume. I treat
each rep in a set as a single - reset after each rep.

A good guideline in regards to the percentages.

80% can be thought of as a weight where you can get three good, powerful
reps out of - no grinding of significant slowing of the bar. So it is a
heavy weight, but a weight you can move powerfully.

85% can be thought of as a weight where two good reps, but the third rep
is starting to slow a bit.

90% - one real powerful rep. It isn't a problem weight, but you are
getting close.

Jonathan
October 5th 04, 07:49 PM
(Keith Hobman) wrote in message >...
> In article >, Hugh Beyer
> > wrote:
>
> > (bleh) wrote in
> > om:
> >
> > > As advised by Keith Hobman and others, I have been following the
> > > Sheiko Beginner routine. My deadlift had been going up like crazy,
> > > however my squat was only going up 10 pounds every 8 weeks and my
> > > bench press was going nowhere. This was while doing a Westside routine
> > > and it was advised that I might see better progress if I spent more
> > > time performing the actual lifts.
> > >
> > > I had heard the Sheiko routine was pretty intense but it is actually
> > > starting to overwhelm me. I have been struggling to locate where my
> > > weak point in the bench press is. After getting into the repetitive
> > > heavy Sheiko sets, it became apparent it was my shoulders. It's pretty
> > > easy to figure out when the bar path is next to impossible to control
> > > with the bar flying back over your face. It will be interesting to see
> > > how things fair when I test my 1rm on this lift after I'm finished
> > > with this cycle.
> > >
> > > The was the routine is planned in regards to the deadlift leaves me
> > > with some questions. I found it next to impossible to complete all the
> > > deadlift sets for the first workout of the day. It was excruciatingly
> > > painful in my hip flexors...and not the good kind of pain. I have read
> > > time and time again that deadlifting for reps is counterproductive. It
> > > takes a huge toll on your central nervous system and it isn't a lift
> > > that requires tons of technique to be memorized. I was physically
> > > unable to complete the deadlift sets for the days 2nd workout. I had
> > > to drop them.
> > >
> > > When it comes to squats, this routine is kicking my ass almost as bad
> > > as the deadlifts. I am usually able to complete all the planned sets
> > > for both workouts per day, but I can't perform sets every 30 seconds.
> > > I have to take up to 5 min rest breaks after some of the heavier sets
> > > just because my hip flexors ache so badly.
> > >
> > > Can anyone relate to my experiences with this routine?
> > >
> >
> > If it hurts, don't do it.
> >
> > Keith has posted a whole bunch about the need to work up to the volume in
> > a Sheiko program. See his recent post outlining a workout plan where you
> > add a set a week.
> >
> > No doubt he will weigh in more authoritatively, but in the absence of
> > better advice I'd eliminate the second workout in a day and do no more
> > than 2 sets at the top weight each lift. See if that doesn't bring things
> > back into the doable range. Than you can build the volume back up, slowly
> > over time.
> >
> > Another question: Were you honest about your starting weights and the
> > percentages? Didn't round up to the next 10 pounds or so? Another approach
> > would be to arbitrarily drop all the poundages--calculate them off of a
> > lower max. That would keep the volume up by lowering intensity.
> >
> > Personally I haven't had these issues, but everyone's different. I'm
> > inclined to think that 85% of a pussy-ass RM is experientially different
> > from 85% of a Highly Adapted RM.
>
> I think Hugh has covered pretty much all the bases.
>
> The overall volume of the beginners Sheiko is still very high. If you
> aren't used to volume I think it is both unnecessary and even
> counter-productive to go that high.
>
> So start gradually and work up over time.
>
> In the deadlift I've never had a huge problem with the volume. I treat
> each rep in a set as a single - reset after each rep.
>
> A good guideline in regards to the percentages.
>
> 80% can be thought of as a weight where you can get three good, powerful
> reps out of - no grinding of significant slowing of the bar. So it is a
> heavy weight, but a weight you can move powerfully.
>
> 85% can be thought of as a weight where two good reps, but the third rep
> is starting to slow a bit.
>
> 90% - one real powerful rep. It isn't a problem weight, but you are
> getting close.


Just to add something from my own experience re: percentages. 80% -
90% weights are certainly eminently doable for a few sets a week, but
it does take its toll when you're benching at 80-85% 3 times a week.
I've found a good rule to be: never, EVER round up. (OK, so maybe if
it's 0.5kg under, round up, but you know what I mean.) My only
completely unsuccessful Sheiko cycle I rounded up and paid the price.

Jonathan