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elzinator
October 5th 04, 04:41 AM
In the middle of all the ****- and gun-slinging, the pettiness and
crying, one event has captured the hearts of many: SpaceShipOne. This
is where our hopes and dreams lie. These are the men who dared to make
it happen.

And, my God, what beautiful 'birds' those ships are.

I expect to hear the obligatory "Well, what business do we have
spending money and effort going into space when there are people dying
of hunger and from killing each other on this planet, blah, blah"
(I already heard it yesterday to which I rose up and countered)

That won't change. Humans are what they are, and there will always be
strife and killing. No matter what we do, no matter where we are. In
fact, we in this country seem to be perpetuating it quite nicely.

Maybe looking to space is our hope. Maybe it will unite us. Expand
ourselves into the Universe. If I had the opportunity to go into
space, I would not hesitate.

We had a man on the Moon. It showed that our human race was capable of
looking beyond our own manmade borders. Now we, and I mean *we*, as in
you and I and the next guy, can fly into space.

There's a whole new 'world' out that begs to be explored. Let's do it.

http://www.scaled.com/projects/tierone/

Cheers and hats off to these people.....


"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the
strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better.
The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face
is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs
and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without
error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great
devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best,
knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the
worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that
his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew
neither victory nor defeat."

- Teddy Roosevelt

(we need another President like him)

Proton Soup
October 5th 04, 04:42 AM
On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 22:41:37 -0500, elzinator
> wrote:

>If I had the opportunity to go into
>space, I would not hesitate.

You may get your chance soon enough.

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/10/05/1096871846723.html?oneclick=true

But I'd wait, myself. I thought I remembered reading about a scary
moment when that guy brought SS1 back down.

Maybe after Service Pack 2 is released...

-----------
Proton Soup

"Homo sapiens non urinat in ventum."

User
October 5th 04, 04:47 AM
Elzi,

I watched "Black Sky" last night and it literally brought a tear to my eye
(call me what you will). It will be on the Discovery Channel again Thurs --
its a 2 hr account of Burt Rutan, his genius, and the SpaceshipOne project
up to its first "front page" flight.

Its an amazing program -- one that will leave you speechless.

John Hanson
October 5th 04, 04:51 AM
On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 22:41:37 -0500, elzinator
> wrote in misc.fitness.weights:

>
>In the middle of all the ****- and gun-slinging, the pettiness and
>crying, one event has captured the hearts of many: SpaceShipOne. This
>is where our hopes and dreams lie. These are the men who dared to make
>it happen.
>
>And, my God, what beautiful 'birds' those ships are.
>
>I expect to hear the obligatory "Well, what business do we have
>spending money and effort going into space when there are people dying
>of hunger and from killing each other on this planet, blah, blah"
>(I already heard it yesterday to which I rose up and countered)
>
>That won't change. Humans are what they are, and there will always be
>strife and killing. No matter what we do, no matter where we are. In
>fact, we in this country seem to be perpetuating it quite nicely.
>
>Maybe looking to space is our hope. Maybe it will unite us. Expand
>ourselves into the Universe. If I had the opportunity to go into
>space, I would not hesitate.
>
>We had a man on the Moon. It showed that our human race was capable of
>looking beyond our own manmade borders. Now we, and I mean *we*, as in
>you and I and the next guy, can fly into space.
>
>There's a whole new 'world' out that begs to be explored. Let's do it.
>
>http://www.scaled.com/projects/tierone/
>
>Cheers and hats off to these people.....

Hear Hear

>
>
>"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the
>strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better.
>The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face
>is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs
>and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without
>error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great
>devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best,
>knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the
>worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that
>his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew
>neither victory nor defeat."
>
>- Teddy Roosevelt
>
>(we need another President like him)

You got that right! He was an incredible man and if I were to call
anyone a hero, he would be right at the top of the list with a few
select others.

elzinator
October 5th 04, 04:56 AM
On Mon, 4 Oct 2004 20:47:42 -0700, User wrote:
>Elzi,
>
>I watched "Black Sky" last night and it literally brought a tear to my eye
>(call me what you will). It will be on the Discovery Channel again Thurs --
>its a 2 hr account of Burt Rutan, his genius, and the SpaceshipOne project
>up to its first "front page" flight.
>
>Its an amazing program -- one that will leave you speechless.

Thanks for the headsup; I will plan on watching it.

I saw a video clip of today's flight. Yeah, there were tears in my
eyes.

All I could say was "Hot damn!!!"

I so want to be on that beauty.



Beelzibub

"Modern man must rediscover a deeper source of his own spiritual life. To do this,he is obligated
to struggle with evil, to confront his own shadow, to integrate the devil."
- Carl Jung

The Queen of Cans and Jars
October 5th 04, 05:00 AM
elzinator > wrote:

> In the middle of all the ****- and gun-slinging, the pettiness and
> crying, one event has captured the hearts of many: SpaceShipOne. This
> is where our hopes and dreams lie. These are the men who dared to make
> it happen.
>
> And, my God, what beautiful 'birds' those ships are.
>
> I expect to hear the obligatory "Well, what business do we have
> spending money and effort going into space when there are people dying
> of hunger and from killing each other on this planet, blah, blah"
> (I already heard it yesterday to which I rose up and countered)
>
> That won't change. Humans are what they are, and there will always be
> strife and killing. No matter what we do, no matter where we are. In
> fact, we in this country seem to be perpetuating it quite nicely.
>
> Maybe looking to space is our hope. Maybe it will unite us. Expand
> ourselves into the Universe. If I had the opportunity to go into
> space, I would not hesitate.
>
> We had a man on the Moon. It showed that our human race was capable of
> looking beyond our own manmade borders. Now we, and I mean *we*, as in
> you and I and the next guy, can fly into space.
>
> There's a whole new 'world' out that begs to be explored. Let's do it.
>
> http://www.scaled.com/projects/tierone/
>
> Cheers and hats off to these people.....

word

elzinator
October 5th 04, 05:06 AM
On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 22:51:00 -0500, John Hanson wrote:
>On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 22:41:37 -0500, elzinator
> wrote in misc.fitness.weights:
>
>>
>>In the middle of all the ****- and gun-slinging, the pettiness and
>>crying, one event has captured the hearts of many: SpaceShipOne. This
>>is where our hopes and dreams lie. These are the men who dared to make
>>it happen.
>>
>>And, my God, what beautiful 'birds' those ships are.
>>
>>I expect to hear the obligatory "Well, what business do we have
>>spending money and effort going into space when there are people dying
>>of hunger and from killing each other on this planet, blah, blah"
>>(I already heard it yesterday to which I rose up and countered)
>>
>>That won't change. Humans are what they are, and there will always be
>>strife and killing. No matter what we do, no matter where we are. In
>>fact, we in this country seem to be perpetuating it quite nicely.
>>
>>Maybe looking to space is our hope. Maybe it will unite us. Expand
>>ourselves into the Universe. If I had the opportunity to go into
>>space, I would not hesitate.
>>
>>We had a man on the Moon. It showed that our human race was capable of
>>looking beyond our own manmade borders. Now we, and I mean *we*, as in
>>you and I and the next guy, can fly into space.
>>
>>There's a whole new 'world' out that begs to be explored. Let's do it.
>>
>>http://www.scaled.com/projects/tierone/
>>
>>Cheers and hats off to these people.....
>
>Hear Hear

Really. This is an accomplishment that I only dreamed of since I was a
kid. Watching the first man on the moon was step one; this is step
two. I'm just grateful that it occurred in my lifetime. What I regret
is that I won't have the chance to be on one of those flights.


>>"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the
>>strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better.
>>The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face
>>is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs
>>and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without
>>error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great
>>devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best,
>>knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the
>>worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that
>>his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew
>>neither victory nor defeat."
>>
>>- Teddy Roosevelt
>>
>>(we need another President like him)
>
>You got that right! He was an incredible man and if I were to call
>anyone a hero, he would be right at the top of the list with a few
>select others.

Teddy has resonated with me my whole life. In some ways, he's been my
mentor. We need a president like him now, that we can sincerely vote
for rather than vote against his opponent. That we can have confidence
in.

I stood and stared at the statue of him upon his horse in front of the
Am. Museum of Natural History (in NYC) for at least a good 20 minutes
reflecting on his history as a leader, a man and a President. It
reminded me of what we lack in ourselves as a nation and as Americans,
but also what potential we have in the same capacities. We need to
regain that.

And damn it, he knew how to ride a horse well.

Teddy Roosevelt for President


Beelzibub

"Modern man must rediscover a deeper source of his own spiritual life. To do this,he is obligated
to struggle with evil, to confront his own shadow, to integrate the devil."
- Carl Jung

Proton Soup
October 5th 04, 05:10 AM
On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 23:11:42 -0500, elzinator
> wrote:

>On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 22:42:54 -0500, Proton Soup wrote:
>>On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 22:41:37 -0500, elzinator
> wrote:
>>
>>>If I had the opportunity to go into
>>>space, I would not hesitate.
>>
>>You may get your chance soon enough.
>
>I sent them a congratulatory email telling them that my microscopic
>discoveries pale compared to what they have accomplished and their
>flights have restored my faith in mankind. Maybe they'll be flattered
>enough to offer me a ride.
>
>>http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/10/05/1096871846723.html?oneclick=true
>
>I'm not going to register for this, so tell me what it says. (or cut
>and paste)

Sorry, I got there originally through google news searching for
"virgin space", but I can't go back now without it asking for
registration. Basically, Branson's Virgin Airways is going to pursue
this as a commercial venture with SS1 as its platform. I think it is
going to be called Virgin Galactic, with a target date of 2007, which
probably means 2010. :-/

-----------
Proton Soup

"Homo sapiens non urinat in ventum."

elzinator
October 5th 04, 05:11 AM
On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 22:42:54 -0500, Proton Soup wrote:
>On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 22:41:37 -0500, elzinator
> wrote:
>
>>If I had the opportunity to go into
>>space, I would not hesitate.
>
>You may get your chance soon enough.

I sent them a congratulatory email telling them that my microscopic
discoveries pale compared to what they have accomplished and their
flights have restored my faith in mankind. Maybe they'll be flattered
enough to offer me a ride.

>http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/10/05/1096871846723.html?oneclick=true

I'm not going to register for this, so tell me what it says. (or cut
and paste)

>But I'd wait, myself. I thought I remembered reading about a scary
>moment when that guy brought SS1 back down.
>
>Maybe after Service Pack 2 is released...

It's always a good idea to wait after something new has been debugged.


Beelzibub

"Modern man must rediscover a deeper source of his own spiritual life. To do this,he is obligated
to struggle with evil, to confront his own shadow, to integrate the devil."
- Carl Jung

John Hanson
October 5th 04, 05:21 AM
On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 23:06:15 -0500, elzinator
> wrote in misc.fitness.weights:

>On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 22:51:00 -0500, John Hanson wrote:
>>On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 22:41:37 -0500, elzinator
> wrote in misc.fitness.weights:
>>
>>>
>>>In the middle of all the ****- and gun-slinging, the pettiness and
>>>crying, one event has captured the hearts of many: SpaceShipOne. This
>>>is where our hopes and dreams lie. These are the men who dared to make
>>>it happen.
>>>
>>>And, my God, what beautiful 'birds' those ships are.
>>>
>>>I expect to hear the obligatory "Well, what business do we have
>>>spending money and effort going into space when there are people dying
>>>of hunger and from killing each other on this planet, blah, blah"
>>>(I already heard it yesterday to which I rose up and countered)
>>>
>>>That won't change. Humans are what they are, and there will always be
>>>strife and killing. No matter what we do, no matter where we are. In
>>>fact, we in this country seem to be perpetuating it quite nicely.
>>>
>>>Maybe looking to space is our hope. Maybe it will unite us. Expand
>>>ourselves into the Universe. If I had the opportunity to go into
>>>space, I would not hesitate.
>>>
>>>We had a man on the Moon. It showed that our human race was capable of
>>>looking beyond our own manmade borders. Now we, and I mean *we*, as in
>>>you and I and the next guy, can fly into space.
>>>
>>>There's a whole new 'world' out that begs to be explored. Let's do it.
>>>
>>>http://www.scaled.com/projects/tierone/
>>>
>>>Cheers and hats off to these people.....
>>
>>Hear Hear
>
>Really. This is an accomplishment that I only dreamed of since I was a
>kid. Watching the first man on the moon was step one; this is step
>two. I'm just grateful that it occurred in my lifetime. What I regret
>is that I won't have the chance to be on one of those flights.
>
>
>>>"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the
>>>strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better.
>>>The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face
>>>is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs
>>>and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without
>>>error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great
>>>devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best,
>>>knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the
>>>worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that
>>>his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew
>>>neither victory nor defeat."
>>>
>>>- Teddy Roosevelt
>>>
>>>(we need another President like him)
>>
>>You got that right! He was an incredible man and if I were to call
>>anyone a hero, he would be right at the top of the list with a few
>>select others.
>
>Teddy has resonated with me my whole life. In some ways, he's been my
>mentor. We need a president like him now, that we can sincerely vote
>for rather than vote against his opponent. That we can have confidence
>in.

It's funny that he became what he did. He grew up a sickly rich city
kid. He must have believed in the adage that what doesn't kill you,
makes you stronger.



>
>I stood and stared at the statue of him upon his horse in front of the
>Am. Museum of Natural History (in NYC) for at least a good 20 minutes
>reflecting on his history as a leader, a man and a President. It
>reminded me of what we lack in ourselves as a nation and as Americans,
>but also what potential we have in the same capacities. We need to
>regain that.
>
>And damn it, he knew how to ride a horse well.

His words after the assassination attempt on his life I find quite
profound and I wonder at what age he decided to try to live life to
the fullest. "No man has had a happier life than I have led; a
happier life in every way."

>
>Teddy Roosevelt for President
>
Teddy would have personally kicked Saddam and Osama's asses. He would
have made up some bull**** story about how he was going to spend a
week at Camp David and then would have lead a SEAL team against those
guys.

elzinator
October 5th 04, 05:29 AM
On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 23:21:17 -0500, John Hanson wrote:
>On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 23:06:15 -0500, elzinator
> wrote in misc.fitness.weights:

>>>>- Teddy Roosevelt
>>>>
>>>>(we need another President like him)
>>>
>>>You got that right! He was an incredible man and if I were to call
>>>anyone a hero, he would be right at the top of the list with a few
>>>select others.
>>
>>Teddy has resonated with me my whole life. In some ways, he's been my
>>mentor. We need a president like him now, that we can sincerely vote
>>for rather than vote against his opponent. That we can have confidence
>>in.
>
>It's funny that he became what he did. He grew up a sickly rich city
>kid. He must have believed in the adage that what doesn't kill you,
>makes you stronger.

It was more than that. But I"m too tired to go into a monolog about
it. (phew; you're all saved)


>His words after the assassination attempt on his life I find quite
>profound and I wonder at what age he decided to try to live life to
>the fullest. "No man has had a happier life than I have led; a
>happier life in every way."

Good question. I remember thinking about that very thing when I was a
young teenager, just from watching other adults around me. It may have
been from overcoming adversity while he was a child.

Teddy was also a realist, but one with hope and perseverance.


>>Teddy Roosevelt for President
>>
>Teddy would have personally kicked Saddam and Osama's asses. He would
>have made up some bull**** story about how he was going to spend a
>week at Camp David and then would have lead a SEAL team against those
>guys.

I know that's what you would like to think, but I'm not so sure. I
tend to think that he may have been more discreet and covert than
Dubya has been. But we'll never know. Speculation is all we can do.


---------------------------------
Teddy Roosevelt for President!!

elzinator
October 5th 04, 05:32 AM
On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 23:10:08 -0500, Proton Soup wrote:
>On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 23:11:42 -0500, elzinator
> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 22:42:54 -0500, Proton Soup wrote:
>>>On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 22:41:37 -0500, elzinator
> wrote:
>>>
>>>>If I had the opportunity to go into
>>>>space, I would not hesitate.
>>>
>>>You may get your chance soon enough.
>>
>>I sent them a congratulatory email telling them that my microscopic
>>discoveries pale compared to what they have accomplished and their
>>flights have restored my faith in mankind. Maybe they'll be flattered
>>enough to offer me a ride.
>>
>>>http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/10/05/1096871846723.html?oneclick=true
>>
>>I'm not going to register for this, so tell me what it says. (or cut
>>and paste)
>
>Sorry, I got there originally through google news searching for
>"virgin space", but I can't go back now without it asking for
>registration. Basically, Branson's Virgin Airways is going to pursue
>this as a commercial venture with SS1 as its platform. I think it is
>going to be called Virgin Galactic, with a target date of 2007, which
>probably means 2010. :-/

Oh, that. I already knew about that. I've been following this for
several months. However, I doubt that I will have the requisite
finances to be a passenger, unless they want a scientist to study
muscle metabolism in space :)

I would happily volunteer my services.


---------------------------------
Teddy Roosevelt for President!!

John M. Williams
October 5th 04, 05:54 AM
Proton Soup > wrote:
> Basically, Branson's Virgin Airways is going to pursue
>this as a commercial venture with SS1 as its platform. I think it is
>going to be called Virgin Galactic, with a target date of 2007, which
>probably means 2010. :-/

This is old news. Doesn't anyone around here watch CNN?

I'm just glad they managed to control the barrel rolls on the second
flight. CNN showed the in-cabin camera from the first flight, and
from the sunlight coming through the window, you could tell that the
sucker was rolling fast.

John Hanson
October 5th 04, 07:17 AM
On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 23:29:44 -0500, elzinator
> wrote in misc.fitness.weights:

>On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 23:21:17 -0500, John Hanson wrote:
>>On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 23:06:15 -0500, elzinator
> wrote in misc.fitness.weights:
>
>>>>>- Teddy Roosevelt
>>>>>
>>>>>(we need another President like him)
>>>>
>>>>You got that right! He was an incredible man and if I were to call
>>>>anyone a hero, he would be right at the top of the list with a few
>>>>select others.
>>>
>>>Teddy has resonated with me my whole life. In some ways, he's been my
>>>mentor. We need a president like him now, that we can sincerely vote
>>>for rather than vote against his opponent. That we can have confidence
>>>in.
>>
>>It's funny that he became what he did. He grew up a sickly rich city
>>kid. He must have believed in the adage that what doesn't kill you,
>>makes you stronger.
>
>It was more than that. But I"m too tired to go into a monolog about
>it. (phew; you're all saved)
>
>
>>His words after the assassination attempt on his life I find quite
>>profound and I wonder at what age he decided to try to live life to
>>the fullest. "No man has had a happier life than I have led; a
>>happier life in every way."
>
>Good question. I remember thinking about that very thing when I was a
>young teenager, just from watching other adults around me. It may have
>been from overcoming adversity while he was a child.
>
>Teddy was also a realist, but one with hope and perseverance.
>
>
>>>Teddy Roosevelt for President
>>>
>>Teddy would have personally kicked Saddam and Osama's asses. He would
>>have made up some bull**** story about how he was going to spend a
>>week at Camp David and then would have lead a SEAL team against those
>>guys.
>
>I know that's what you would like to think, but I'm not so sure. I
>tend to think that he may have been more discreet and covert than
>Dubya has been. But we'll never know. Speculation is all we can do.
>
>
That was a much simpler time in his day. I'm sure he would have
delegated the attack to the military as President. He would have put
a major hurt on them before he was President though.

Anna Martelli Ravenscroft
October 5th 04, 09:52 AM
elzinator wrote:
> In the middle of all the ****- and gun-slinging, the pettiness and
> crying, one event has captured the hearts of many: SpaceShipOne. This
> is where our hopes and dreams lie. These are the men who dared to make
> it happen.
>
> And, my God, what beautiful 'birds' those ships are.
>
> I expect to hear the obligatory "Well, what business do we have
> spending money and effort going into space when there are people dying
> of hunger and from killing each other on this planet, blah, blah"
> (I already heard it yesterday to which I rose up and countered)
>
> That won't change. Humans are what they are, and there will always be
> strife and killing. No matter what we do, no matter where we are. In
> fact, we in this country seem to be perpetuating it quite nicely.
>
> Maybe looking to space is our hope. Maybe it will unite us. Expand
> ourselves into the Universe. If I had the opportunity to go into
> space, I would not hesitate.
>
> We had a man on the Moon. It showed that our human race was capable of
> looking beyond our own manmade borders. Now we, and I mean *we*, as in
> you and I and the next guy, can fly into space.
>
> There's a whole new 'world' out that begs to be explored. Let's do it.

Hear hear!!!

Anna

Will Brink
October 5th 04, 02:14 PM
In article >,
elzinator > wrote:

> In the middle of all the ****- and gun-slinging, the pettiness and
> crying, one event has captured the hearts of many: SpaceShipOne. This
> is where our hopes and dreams lie. These are the men who dared to make
> it happen.
>
> And, my God, what beautiful 'birds' those ships are.
>
> I expect to hear the obligatory "Well, what business do we have
> spending money and effort going into space when there are people dying
> of hunger and from killing each other on this planet, blah, blah"
> (I already heard it yesterday to which I rose up and countered)
>
> That won't change. Humans are what they are, and there will always be
> strife and killing. No matter what we do, no matter where we are. In
> fact, we in this country seem to be perpetuating it quite nicely.
>
> Maybe looking to space is our hope. Maybe it will unite us. Expand
> ourselves into the Universe. If I had the opportunity to go into
> space, I would not hesitate.
>
> We had a man on the Moon. It showed that our human race was capable of
> looking beyond our own manmade borders. Now we, and I mean *we*, as in
> you and I and the next guy, can fly into space.
>
> There's a whole new 'world' out that begs to be explored. Let's do it.
>
> http://www.scaled.com/projects/tierone/
>
> Cheers and hats off to these people.....
>
>
> "It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the
> strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better.
> The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face
> is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs
> and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without
> error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great
> devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best,
> knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the
> worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that
> his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew
> neither victory nor defeat."
>
> - Teddy Roosevelt
>
> (we need another President like him)

I agree with your comments, but as you know, it will have to make
economic sense and the first thing I thought of was the cost of the
project must have cost more then the prize they were shooting for.
Regardless, Vergin says they will invest.

--
Will Brink @ http://www.brinkzone.com/

Wayne S. Hill
October 5th 04, 02:16 PM
elzinator wrote:

> In the middle of all the ****- and gun-slinging, the
> pettiness and crying, one event has captured the hearts of
> many: SpaceShipOne. This is where our hopes and dreams lie.
> These are the men who dared to make it happen.

From an engineer's perspective, these guys are damned lucky to
be in a position to do what looks like a really fun project.

Besides, what could happen?

> And, my God, what beautiful 'birds' those ships are.

True.

> I expect to hear the obligatory "Well, what business do we
> have spending money and effort going into space when there
> are people dying of hunger and from killing each other on
> this planet, blah, blah" (I already heard it yesterday to
> which I rose up and countered)

This was privately funded by people who can afford it and have
in mind making money from it in the future. People may
complain, but it's a more positive use of someone's money than
a lot of other things people do. A few celebrity weddings would
pay for this.

--
-Wayne

Keith Hobman
October 5th 04, 03:37 PM
In article >, nospam.net wrote:

> In the middle of all the ****- and gun-slinging, the pettiness and
> crying, one event has captured the hearts of many: SpaceShipOne. This
> is where our hopes and dreams lie. These are the men who dared to make
> it happen.
>
> And, my God, what beautiful 'birds' those ships are.
>
> I expect to hear the obligatory "Well, what business do we have
> spending money and effort going into space when there are people dying
> of hunger and from killing each other on this planet, blah, blah"
> (I already heard it yesterday to which I rose up and countered)
>
> That won't change. Humans are what they are, and there will always be
> strife and killing. No matter what we do, no matter where we are. In
> fact, we in this country seem to be perpetuating it quite nicely.
>
> Maybe looking to space is our hope. Maybe it will unite us. Expand
> ourselves into the Universe. If I had the opportunity to go into
> space, I would not hesitate.
>
> We had a man on the Moon. It showed that our human race was capable of
> looking beyond our own manmade borders. Now we, and I mean *we*, as in
> you and I and the next guy, can fly into space.
>
> There's a whole new 'world' out that begs to be explored. Let's do it.

The d'Vinci project is taking off just south of us in a few days. They had
some last minute legal issues (damn gov't) issues, but appear to have them
resolved.

This is going to be a launch from the largest balloon every created. Which
should be a very cool, not too mention innovative and cost effective idea.

I like their attitude as well. Even though they lost out on the $10
million prize they are going ahead with the launch. The challenge is more
compelling than the economics. Gotta like that.

Dally
October 5th 04, 03:56 PM
Will Brink wrote:
> In article >,
> elzinator > wrote:
>
>
>>In the middle of all the ****- and gun-slinging, the pettiness and
>>crying, one event has captured the hearts of many: SpaceShipOne. This
>>is where our hopes and dreams lie. These are the men who dared to make
>>it happen.
>>
>>And, my God, what beautiful 'birds' those ships are.
>>
>>I expect to hear the obligatory "Well, what business do we have
>>spending money and effort going into space when there are people dying
>>of hunger and from killing each other on this planet, blah, blah"
>>(I already heard it yesterday to which I rose up and countered)
>>
>>That won't change. Humans are what they are, and there will always be
>>strife and killing. No matter what we do, no matter where we are. In
>>fact, we in this country seem to be perpetuating it quite nicely.
>>
>>Maybe looking to space is our hope. Maybe it will unite us. Expand
>>ourselves into the Universe. If I had the opportunity to go into
>>space, I would not hesitate.
>>
>>We had a man on the Moon. It showed that our human race was capable of
>>looking beyond our own manmade borders. Now we, and I mean *we*, as in
>>you and I and the next guy, can fly into space.
>>
>>There's a whole new 'world' out that begs to be explored. Let's do it.
>>
>>http://www.scaled.com/projects/tierone/
>>
>>Cheers and hats off to these people.....
>>
>>
>>"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the
>>strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better.
>>The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face
>>is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs
>>and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without
>>error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great
>>devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best,
>>knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the
>>worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that
>>his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew
>>neither victory nor defeat."
>>
>>- Teddy Roosevelt
>>
>>(we need another President like him)

Eloquent as always, Elzi. Thanks for the ode.


> I agree with your comments, but as you know, it will have to make
> economic sense and the first thing I thought of was the cost of the
> project must have cost more then the prize they were shooting for.
> Regardless, Vergin says they will invest.

But think of the press they bought. That company is golden. You've got
to spend money to make money. They've got a product that's as out-there
cutting edge as any you can name.

Dally

Elzinator
October 5th 04, 11:38 PM
Will Brink > wrote in message >...
> In article >,
> elzinator > wrote:

> > There's a whole new 'world' out that begs to be explored. Let's do it.
> >
> > http://www.scaled.com/projects/tierone/
> >
> > Cheers and hats off to these people.....
>
> I agree with your comments, but as you know, it will have to make
> economic sense and the first thing I thought of was the cost of the
> project must have cost more then the prize they were shooting for.

$20 million. One of the co-founders of MS (Paul Allen) provided most
of the funding. But there were other investors as well. One of them is
a woman in Dallas.

> Regardless, Vergin says they will invest.

Of course, much needs to be done to make the venture more profitable
and attractive to buyers/investors. There's already a register of
people who will pay $100,000 to be a 'space tourist.'

Think of the possibilities: express airflight from Tokyo to NYC., etc.
How about a space hotel? The ultimate vacation.

NASA requires only a degree in science or engineering and a background
in research to be eligible for an astronaut. There are advantages to
having a gravity-free lab in space.

Will Brink
October 5th 04, 11:44 PM
In article >,
(Elzinator) wrote:

> Will Brink > wrote in message
> >...
> > In article >,
> > elzinator > wrote:
>
> > > There's a whole new 'world' out that begs to be explored. Let's do it.
> > >
> > > http://www.scaled.com/projects/tierone/
> > >
> > > Cheers and hats off to these people.....
> >
> > I agree with your comments, but as you know, it will have to make
> > economic sense and the first thing I thought of was the cost of the
> > project must have cost more then the prize they were shooting for.
>
> $20 million. One of the co-founders of MS (Paul Allen) provided most
> of the funding. But there were other investors as well. One of them is
> a woman in Dallas.
>
> > Regardless, Vergin says they will invest.
>
> Of course, much needs to be done to make the venture more profitable
> and attractive to buyers/investors. There's already a register of
> people who will pay $100,000 to be a 'space tourist.'
>
> Think of the possibilities: express airflight from Tokyo to NYC., etc.
> How about a space hotel? The ultimate vacation.
>
> NASA requires only a degree in science or engineering and a background
> in research to be eligible for an astronaut. There are advantages to
> having a gravity-free lab in space.

All my life I have wanted to go into space for basically one
reason...gravity free sex.

--
Will Brink @ http://www.brinkzone.com/

elzinator
October 6th 04, 01:07 AM
On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 01:17:29 -0500, John Hanson wrote:
>On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 23:29:44 -0500, elzinator
> wrote in misc.fitness.weights:
>
>>On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 23:21:17 -0500, John Hanson wrote:
>>>On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 23:06:15 -0500, elzinator
> wrote in misc.fitness.weights:
>>
>>>>>>- Teddy Roosevelt
>>>>>>
>>>>>>(we need another President like him)
>>>>>
>>>>>You got that right! He was an incredible man and if I were to call
>>>>>anyone a hero, he would be right at the top of the list with a few
>>>>>select others.
>>>>
>>>>Teddy has resonated with me my whole life. In some ways, he's been my
>>>>mentor. We need a president like him now, that we can sincerely vote
>>>>for rather than vote against his opponent. That we can have confidence
>>>>in.
>>>
>>>It's funny that he became what he did. He grew up a sickly rich city
>>>kid. He must have believed in the adage that what doesn't kill you,
>>>makes you stronger.
>>
>>It was more than that. But I"m too tired to go into a monolog about
>>it. (phew; you're all saved)
>>
>>
>>>His words after the assassination attempt on his life I find quite
>>>profound and I wonder at what age he decided to try to live life to
>>>the fullest. "No man has had a happier life than I have led; a
>>>happier life in every way."
>>
>>Good question. I remember thinking about that very thing when I was a
>>young teenager, just from watching other adults around me. It may have
>>been from overcoming adversity while he was a child.
>>
>>Teddy was also a realist, but one with hope and perseverance.
>>
>>
>>>>Teddy Roosevelt for President
>>>>
>>>Teddy would have personally kicked Saddam and Osama's asses. He would
>>>have made up some bull**** story about how he was going to spend a
>>>week at Camp David and then would have lead a SEAL team against those
>>>guys.
>>
>>I know that's what you would like to think, but I'm not so sure. I
>>tend to think that he may have been more discreet and covert than
>>Dubya has been. But we'll never know. Speculation is all we can do.
>>
>>
>That was a much simpler time in his day. I'm sure he would have
>delegated the attack to the military as President. He would have put
>a major hurt on them before he was President though.

Things were more simpler 25 years ago compared to now.


---------------------------------
Teddy Roosevelt for President!!

elzinator
October 6th 04, 01:10 AM
On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 10:56:50 -0400, Dally wrote:
>Will Brink wrote:

>> I agree with your comments, but as you know, it will have to make
>> economic sense and the first thing I thought of was the cost of the
>> project must have cost more then the prize they were shooting for.
>> Regardless, Vergin says they will invest.
>
>But think of the press they bought. That company is golden. You've got
>to spend money to make money. They've got a product that's as out-there
>cutting edge as any you can name.

Many in the govt. space/aeuronautic agencies are poo-pooing this
event, but can it incite another space age? It has the potential. I am
putting my hopes in it.


---------------------------------
Teddy Roosevelt for President!!

elzinator
October 6th 04, 01:11 AM
On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 18:44:20 -0400, Will Brink wrote:
>In article >,
> (Elzinator) wrote:
>
>> Will Brink > wrote in message
>> >...
>> > In article >,
>> > elzinator > wrote:
>>
>> > > There's a whole new 'world' out that begs to be explored. Let's do it.
>> > >
>> > > http://www.scaled.com/projects/tierone/
>> > >
>> > > Cheers and hats off to these people.....
>> >
>> > I agree with your comments, but as you know, it will have to make
>> > economic sense and the first thing I thought of was the cost of the
>> > project must have cost more then the prize they were shooting for.
>>
>> $20 million. One of the co-founders of MS (Paul Allen) provided most
>> of the funding. But there were other investors as well. One of them is
>> a woman in Dallas.
>>
>> > Regardless, Vergin says they will invest.
>>
>> Of course, much needs to be done to make the venture more profitable
>> and attractive to buyers/investors. There's already a register of
>> people who will pay $100,000 to be a 'space tourist.'
>>
>> Think of the possibilities: express airflight from Tokyo to NYC., etc.
>> How about a space hotel? The ultimate vacation.
>>
>> NASA requires only a degree in science or engineering and a background
>> in research to be eligible for an astronaut. There are advantages to
>> having a gravity-free lab in space.
>
>All my life I have wanted to go into space for basically one
>reason...gravity free sex.

Yeah, well, that entered my mind, too, but I kept it to myself, along
with associated thoughts.....
quite a few of them, actually....


---------------------------------
Teddy Roosevelt for President!!

John Hanson
October 6th 04, 01:13 AM
On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 18:44:20 -0400, Will Brink
> wrote in misc.fitness.weights:

>In article >,
> (Elzinator) wrote:
>
>> Will Brink > wrote in message
>> >...
>> > In article >,
>> > elzinator > wrote:
>>
>> > > There's a whole new 'world' out that begs to be explored. Let's do it.
>> > >
>> > > http://www.scaled.com/projects/tierone/
>> > >
>> > > Cheers and hats off to these people.....
>> >
>> > I agree with your comments, but as you know, it will have to make
>> > economic sense and the first thing I thought of was the cost of the
>> > project must have cost more then the prize they were shooting for.
>>
>> $20 million. One of the co-founders of MS (Paul Allen) provided most
>> of the funding. But there were other investors as well. One of them is
>> a woman in Dallas.
>>
>> > Regardless, Vergin says they will invest.
>>
>> Of course, much needs to be done to make the venture more profitable
>> and attractive to buyers/investors. There's already a register of
>> people who will pay $100,000 to be a 'space tourist.'
>>
>> Think of the possibilities: express airflight from Tokyo to NYC., etc.
>> How about a space hotel? The ultimate vacation.
>>
>> NASA requires only a degree in science or engineering and a background
>> in research to be eligible for an astronaut. There are advantages to
>> having a gravity-free lab in space.
>
>All my life I have wanted to go into space for basically one
>reason...gravity free sex.

Funny. When I think about traveling in space, it's always about
getting laid on the flight.

elzinator
October 6th 04, 01:20 AM
On 5 Oct 2004 13:16:16 GMT, Wayne S. Hill wrote:
>elzinator wrote:
>
>> In the middle of all the ****- and gun-slinging, the
>> pettiness and crying, one event has captured the hearts of
>> many: SpaceShipOne. This is where our hopes and dreams lie.
>> These are the men who dared to make it happen.
>
>From an engineer's perspective, these guys are damned lucky to
>be in a position to do what looks like a really fun project.

Also an adrenaline junky's fantasy.

>Besides, what could happen?

They could crash :)

>> And, my God, what beautiful 'birds' those ships are.
>
>True.
>
>> I expect to hear the obligatory "Well, what business do we
>> have spending money and effort going into space when there
>> are people dying of hunger and from killing each other on
>> this planet, blah, blah" (I already heard it yesterday to
>> which I rose up and countered)
>
>This was privately funded by people who can afford it and have
>in mind making money from it in the future. People may
>complain, but it's a more positive use of someone's money than
>a lot of other things people do. A few celebrity weddings would
>pay for this.

That is the immediate target market: space tourism. I freely admit
that I would be one of them (not 'celebrity space wedding'). A
register already exists of many people willing to pay $100,000. And
there are plans to engineer the planes to do express jumps, say Tokyo
to NYC for example, as the price declines.

I say we set up a space hotel, with labs on 1-2 floors: life science,
physics, engineering, etc. Sort of a World University setting. Can you
imagine what that would be like? The view out the windows?

This *is* a reality that we could achieve. It would require
cooperation between countries, private industries, etc. Right now the
multi-nation space station is in trouble because there's lack of
interest in it. Instead, we are bickering on this planet and
destroying what we have built and have left.

I guess its the remaining idealist in me that still hopes that we can
reach beyond our pettiness and immediate gratification to reach out
into the stars. Together.

Sigh. Back to my usual cynical self.....


---------------------------------
Teddy Roosevelt for President!!

elzinator
October 6th 04, 01:29 AM
On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 08:37:46 -0600, Keith Hobman wrote:
>In article >, nospam.net wrote:
>
>> In the middle of all the ****- and gun-slinging, the pettiness and
>> crying, one event has captured the hearts of many: SpaceShipOne. This
>> is where our hopes and dreams lie. These are the men who dared to make
>> it happen.
>>
>> And, my God, what beautiful 'birds' those ships are.
>>
>> I expect to hear the obligatory "Well, what business do we have
>> spending money and effort going into space when there are people dying
>> of hunger and from killing each other on this planet, blah, blah"
>> (I already heard it yesterday to which I rose up and countered)
>>
>> That won't change. Humans are what they are, and there will always be
>> strife and killing. No matter what we do, no matter where we are. In
>> fact, we in this country seem to be perpetuating it quite nicely.
>>
>> Maybe looking to space is our hope. Maybe it will unite us. Expand
>> ourselves into the Universe. If I had the opportunity to go into
>> space, I would not hesitate.
>>
>> We had a man on the Moon. It showed that our human race was capable of
>> looking beyond our own manmade borders. Now we, and I mean *we*, as in
>> you and I and the next guy, can fly into space.
>>
>> There's a whole new 'world' out that begs to be explored. Let's do it.
>
>The d'Vinci project is taking off just south of us in a few days. They had
>some last minute legal issues (damn gov't) issues, but appear to have them
>resolved.
>
>This is going to be a launch from the largest balloon every created. Which
>should be a very cool, not too mention innovative and cost effective idea.
>
>I like their attitude as well. Even though they lost out on the $10
>million prize they are going ahead with the launch. The challenge is more
>compelling than the economics. Gotta like that.

Yes, they were featured by Nature journal in the top 16 of the 26 that
registered in the Ansari X competition. They are the only ones with
the idea of a balloon. That should be quite interesting.

There were more than just one Canadian contender.
http://www.skyrocket.de/space/index_frame.htm?http://www.skyrocket.de/space/doc_sat/x-prize.htm

There was a group (Armadillo Aerospace) in Mesquite Texas (immediately
east of Dallas) called the Black Armadillo. It crashed during a
testing. But its a kickass looking rocket!!!


---------------------------------
Teddy Roosevelt for President!!

Proton Soup
October 6th 04, 02:17 AM
On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 19:07:28 -0500, elzinator
> wrote:

>On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 01:17:29 -0500, John Hanson wrote:
>>On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 23:29:44 -0500, elzinator
> wrote in misc.fitness.weights:
>>
>>>On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 23:21:17 -0500, John Hanson wrote:
>>>>On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 23:06:15 -0500, elzinator
> wrote in misc.fitness.weights:
>>>
>>>>>>>- Teddy Roosevelt
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>(we need another President like him)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>You got that right! He was an incredible man and if I were to call
>>>>>>anyone a hero, he would be right at the top of the list with a few
>>>>>>select others.
>>>>>
>>>>>Teddy has resonated with me my whole life. In some ways, he's been my
>>>>>mentor. We need a president like him now, that we can sincerely vote
>>>>>for rather than vote against his opponent. That we can have confidence
>>>>>in.
>>>>
>>>>It's funny that he became what he did. He grew up a sickly rich city
>>>>kid. He must have believed in the adage that what doesn't kill you,
>>>>makes you stronger.
>>>
>>>It was more than that. But I"m too tired to go into a monolog about
>>>it. (phew; you're all saved)
>>>
>>>
>>>>His words after the assassination attempt on his life I find quite
>>>>profound and I wonder at what age he decided to try to live life to
>>>>the fullest. "No man has had a happier life than I have led; a
>>>>happier life in every way."
>>>
>>>Good question. I remember thinking about that very thing when I was a
>>>young teenager, just from watching other adults around me. It may have
>>>been from overcoming adversity while he was a child.
>>>
>>>Teddy was also a realist, but one with hope and perseverance.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>Teddy Roosevelt for President
>>>>>
>>>>Teddy would have personally kicked Saddam and Osama's asses. He would
>>>>have made up some bull**** story about how he was going to spend a
>>>>week at Camp David and then would have lead a SEAL team against those
>>>>guys.
>>>
>>>I know that's what you would like to think, but I'm not so sure. I
>>>tend to think that he may have been more discreet and covert than
>>>Dubya has been. But we'll never know. Speculation is all we can do.
>>>
>>>
>>That was a much simpler time in his day. I'm sure he would have
>>delegated the attack to the military as President. He would have put
>>a major hurt on them before he was President though.
>
>Things were more simpler 25 years ago compared to now.

Girls were icky and Atari ruled!

http://www.emuunlim.com/doteaters/play3sta1.htm

-----------
Proton Soup

"Homo sapiens non urinat in ventum."

Will Brink
October 6th 04, 02:09 PM
In article >,
elzinator > wrote:

> On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 18:44:20 -0400, Will Brink wrote:
> >In article >,
> > (Elzinator) wrote:
> >
> >> Will Brink > wrote in message
> >> >...
> >> > In article >,
> >> > elzinator > wrote:
> >>
> >> > > There's a whole new 'world' out that begs to be explored. Let's do it.
> >> > >
> >> > > http://www.scaled.com/projects/tierone/
> >> > >
> >> > > Cheers and hats off to these people.....
> >> >
> >> > I agree with your comments, but as you know, it will have to make
> >> > economic sense and the first thing I thought of was the cost of the
> >> > project must have cost more then the prize they were shooting for.
> >>
> >> $20 million. One of the co-founders of MS (Paul Allen) provided most
> >> of the funding. But there were other investors as well. One of them is
> >> a woman in Dallas.
> >>
> >> > Regardless, Vergin says they will invest.
> >>
> >> Of course, much needs to be done to make the venture more profitable
> >> and attractive to buyers/investors. There's already a register of
> >> people who will pay $100,000 to be a 'space tourist.'
> >>
> >> Think of the possibilities: express airflight from Tokyo to NYC., etc.
> >> How about a space hotel? The ultimate vacation.
> >>
> >> NASA requires only a degree in science or engineering and a background
> >> in research to be eligible for an astronaut. There are advantages to
> >> having a gravity-free lab in space.
> >
> >All my life I have wanted to go into space for basically one
> >reason...gravity free sex.
>
> Yeah, well, that entered my mind, too, but I kept it to myself, along
> with associated thoughts.....
> quite a few of them, actually....

From day one of being a sci fi reader as a kid, it's always been on my
mind!

>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Teddy Roosevelt for President!!

--
Will Brink @ http://www.brinkzone.com/

User
October 7th 04, 04:28 AM
>>The d'Vinci project is taking off just south of us in a few days. They had
>>some last minute legal issues (damn gov't) issues, but appear to have them
>>resolved.

Golden Palace Casino?! Are you kidding me?

User
October 8th 04, 07:02 AM
>>Its an amazing program -- one that will leave you speechless.
>
> Thanks for the headsup; I will plan on watching it.

Elzi, did you catch "Black Sky" tonight?