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Type Name Here
November 18th 04, 03:50 AM
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2004-11-16-sleep-weight_x.htm

Nightmare of too little sleep is tied to too much weight
By Nanci Hellmich, USA TODAY
LAS VEGAS - If you want to lose weight, get more sleep.
That's the message from a large study being released today. It confirms
earlier research suggesting that sleep deprivation promotes weight gain.

Researchers at Columbia University in New York looked back at sleep patterns
and obesity rates among participants in the government's National Health and
Nutrition Examination Survey from 1982-84 and then again in 1987. (More
recent surveys did not look at sleep patterns.)

They examined the records of 6,115 people, ages 32-59. Participants were
categorized by the amount of sleep they got each night. Those who slept for
seven to nine hours were considered normal sleepers. The researchers didn't
consider such factors as depression, physical activity and gender.

Among the findings being presented here at the annual meeting of the North
American Association for the Study of Obesity, in partnership with the
American Diabetes Association:

.. People who sleep two to four hours a night are 73% more likely to be obese
than normal sleepers.

.. Those who get five hours of sleep are 50% more likely to be obese.

.. Those who sleep six hours were 23% more likely to be obese.

.. Those who get 10 or more hours are 11% less likely to be obese.

"Getting more sleep actually had a protective effect against obesity," says
lead researcher James E. Gangwisch. However, he points out that the study
does not "prove cause and effect. It's an association."

This research confirms other studies of children and adolescents that show
the same relationship between sleep and obesity, he says. Animal studies
also show that when rats are deprived of sleep, their appetites go way up.

Researcher have theorized that lack of sleep may affect several hormones
related to appetite and food intake, including leptin and ghrelin.

"Sleep deprivation activates a small part of the hypothalamus (region of the
brain) that is also involved in appetite regulation," says Eve Van Cauter of
the University of Chicago, one of the nation's leading sleep researchers.

Her study in November's Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism
shows that sleep duration has a major impact on leptin. When people are
sleep-deprived, their leptin levels are lower, which may cause the body to
crave more food, she says.

"It looks like weight control can be added to the long list of benefits of
getting adequate sleep," Gangwisch says.

Kevin J. Coolidge
November 18th 04, 04:20 AM
"Type Name Here" > wrote in message
. uk...
> http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2004-11-16-sleep-weight_x.htm
>
> Nightmare of too little sleep is tied to too much weight
> By Nanci Hellmich, USA TODAY
> LAS VEGAS - If you want to lose weight, get more sleep.
> That's the message from a large study being released today. It confirms
> earlier research suggesting that sleep deprivation promotes weight gain.
>
> Researchers at Columbia University in New York looked back at sleep
> patterns
> and obesity rates among participants in the government's National Health
> and
> Nutrition Examination Survey from 1982-84 and then again in 1987. (More
> recent surveys did not look at sleep patterns.)
>
> They examined the records of 6,115 people, ages 32-59. Participants were
> categorized by the amount of sleep they got each night. Those who slept
> for
> seven to nine hours were considered normal sleepers. The researchers
> didn't
> consider such factors as depression, physical activity and gender.
>
> Among the findings being presented here at the annual meeting of the North
> American Association for the Study of Obesity, in partnership with the
> American Diabetes Association:
>
> . People who sleep two to four hours a night are 73% more likely to be
> obese
> than normal sleepers.
>
> . Those who get five hours of sleep are 50% more likely to be obese.
>
> . Those who sleep six hours were 23% more likely to be obese.
>
> . Those who get 10 or more hours are 11% less likely to be obese.
>
> "Getting more sleep actually had a protective effect against obesity,"
> says
> lead researcher James E. Gangwisch. However, he points out that the study
> does not "prove cause and effect. It's an association."
>
> This research confirms other studies of children and adolescents that show
> the same relationship between sleep and obesity, he says. Animal studies
> also show that when rats are deprived of sleep, their appetites go way up.
>
> Researcher have theorized that lack of sleep may affect several hormones
> related to appetite and food intake, including leptin and ghrelin.
>
> "Sleep deprivation activates a small part of the hypothalamus (region of
> the
> brain) that is also involved in appetite regulation," says Eve Van Cauter
> of
> the University of Chicago, one of the nation's leading sleep researchers.
>
> Her study in November's Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism
> shows that sleep duration has a major impact on leptin. When people are
> sleep-deprived, their leptin levels are lower, which may cause the body to
> crave more food, she says.
>
> "It looks like weight control can be added to the long list of benefits of
> getting adequate sleep," Gangwisch says.
>
>Just hibernate this Winter.

Steve Freides
November 18th 04, 04:49 AM
"Type Name Here" > wrote in message
. uk...
> http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2004-11-16-sleep-weight_x.htm
>
> Nightmare of too little sleep is tied to too much weight
> By Nanci Hellmich, USA TODAY
> LAS VEGAS - If you want to lose weight, get more sleep.
> That's the message from a large study being released today. It
> confirms
> earlier research suggesting that sleep deprivation promotes weight
> gain.
>
> Researchers at Columbia University in New York looked back at sleep
> patterns
> and obesity rates among participants in the government's National
> Health and
> Nutrition Examination Survey from 1982-84 and then again in 1987.
> (More
> recent surveys did not look at sleep patterns.)
>
> They examined the records of 6,115 people, ages 32-59. Participants
> were
> categorized by the amount of sleep they got each night. Those who
> slept for
> seven to nine hours were considered normal sleepers. The researchers
> didn't
> consider such factors as depression, physical activity and gender.
>
> Among the findings being presented here at the annual meeting of the
> North
> American Association for the Study of Obesity, in partnership with the
> American Diabetes Association:
>
> . People who sleep two to four hours a night are 73% more likely to be
> obese
> than normal sleepers.
>
> . Those who get five hours of sleep are 50% more likely to be obese.
>
> . Those who sleep six hours were 23% more likely to be obese.
>
> . Those who get 10 or more hours are 11% less likely to be obese.
>
> "Getting more sleep actually had a protective effect against obesity,"
> says
> lead researcher James E. Gangwisch. However, he points out that the
> study
> does not "prove cause and effect. It's an association."
>
> This research confirms other studies of children and adolescents that
> show
> the same relationship between sleep and obesity, he says. Animal
> studies
> also show that when rats are deprived of sleep, their appetites go way
> up.
>
> Researcher have theorized that lack of sleep may affect several
> hormones
> related to appetite and food intake, including leptin and ghrelin.
>
> "Sleep deprivation activates a small part of the hypothalamus (region
> of the
> brain) that is also involved in appetite regulation," says Eve Van
> Cauter of
> the University of Chicago, one of the nation's leading sleep
> researchers.
>
> Her study in November's Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and
> Metabolism
> shows that sleep duration has a major impact on leptin. When people
> are
> sleep-deprived, their leptin levels are lower, which may cause the
> body to
> crave more food, she says.
>
> "It looks like weight control can be added to the long list of
> benefits of
> getting adequate sleep," Gangwisch says.

Nothin' worse than being tired _and_ hungry.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

Peter Webb
November 18th 04, 12:24 PM
"Type Name Here" > wrote in message
. uk...
> http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2004-11-16-sleep-weight_x.htm
>
> Nightmare of too little sleep is tied to too much weight
> By Nanci Hellmich, USA TODAY
> LAS VEGAS - If you want to lose weight, get more sleep.
> That's the message from a large study being released today. It confirms
> earlier research suggesting that sleep deprivation promotes weight gain.
>
> Researchers at Columbia University in New York looked back at sleep
> patterns
> and obesity rates among participants in the government's National Health
> and
> Nutrition Examination Survey from 1982-84 and then again in 1987. (More
> recent surveys did not look at sleep patterns.)
>
> They examined the records of 6,115 people, ages 32-59. Participants were
> categorized by the amount of sleep they got each night. Those who slept
> for
> seven to nine hours were considered normal sleepers. The researchers
> didn't
> consider such factors as depression, physical activity and gender.
>
> Among the findings being presented here at the annual meeting of the North
> American Association for the Study of Obesity, in partnership with the
> American Diabetes Association:
>
> . People who sleep two to four hours a night are 73% more likely to be
> obese
> than normal sleepers.
>
> . Those who get five hours of sleep are 50% more likely to be obese.
>
> . Those who sleep six hours were 23% more likely to be obese.
>
> . Those who get 10 or more hours are 11% less likely to be obese.
>
> "Getting more sleep actually had a protective effect against obesity,"
> says
> lead researcher James E. Gangwisch. However, he points out that the study
> does not "prove cause and effect. It's an association."
>
> This research confirms other studies of children and adolescents that show
> the same relationship between sleep and obesity, he says. Animal studies
> also show that when rats are deprived of sleep, their appetites go way up.
>
> Researcher have theorized that lack of sleep may affect several hormones
> related to appetite and food intake, including leptin and ghrelin.
>
> "Sleep deprivation activates a small part of the hypothalamus (region of
> the
> brain) that is also involved in appetite regulation," says Eve Van Cauter
> of
> the University of Chicago, one of the nation's leading sleep researchers.
>
> Her study in November's Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism
> shows that sleep duration has a major impact on leptin. When people are
> sleep-deprived, their leptin levels are lower, which may cause the body to
> crave more food, she says.
>
> "It looks like weight control can be added to the long list of benefits of
> getting adequate sleep," Gangwisch says.
>
>

I quote:

"> The researchers didn't
> consider such factors as depression, physical activity and gender."

They contend that people who get 5 hrs or less sleep a night are 50% more
likely to be obese. The data as easily supports the theory that obese people
need less sleep. Indeed, the older you are the less sleep you need and the
more likely you are to be obese, so there might not be any causual
relationship in either direction.


This is why you MUST consider factors such as depression, physical activity,
gender, age, and health (and normalise these out of the data set) or your
study is complete crap, which this one appears to be.

Ohh, and BTW, studies have shown that in 90% of car accidents the driver
applied the brakes immediately before the accident, and the brakes were
active at the time of the accident. Therefore using the brakes causes car
accidents ...

Lurker
November 18th 04, 02:44 PM
>
> . Those who get five hours of sleep are 50% more likely to be obese.
>
> . Those who sleep six hours were 23% more likely to be obese.
>
> . Those who get 10 or more hours are 11% less likely to be obese.
>

So people that spend almost half the day in a state that doesn't allow
them to be eating, like say ice cream in front of David Letterman/Leno,
are less likely to be obese? Whodouldathunkit?

Unless of course they have a G tube installed so that they can get a
steady stream of protein and high GI carbs during the recovery phase of
night.

Lurker

Preacher
November 18th 04, 02:50 PM
Peter Webb > wrote:

> Ohh, and BTW, studies have shown that in 90% of car accidents the driver
> applied the brakes immediately before the accident, and the brakes were
> active at the time of the accident. Therefore using the brakes causes car
> accidents ...

Holy cow - I had no idea! And to think that they still allow cars to be
manufactured with those things...

bc
November 18th 04, 04:16 PM
"Type Name Here" > wrote in message >...
> http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2004-11-16-sleep-weight_x.htm
>
> Nightmare of too little sleep is tied to too much weight
> By Nanci Hellmich, USA TODAY
> LAS VEGAS - If you want to lose weight, get more sleep.
> That's the message from a large study being released today. It confirms
> earlier research suggesting that sleep deprivation promotes weight gain.
>
> Researchers at Columbia University in New York looked back at sleep patterns
> and obesity rates among participants in the government's National Health and
> Nutrition Examination Survey from 1982-84 and then again in 1987. (More
> recent surveys did not look at sleep patterns.)
>
> They examined the records of 6,115 people, ages 32-59. Participants were
> categorized by the amount of sleep they got each night. Those who slept for
> seven to nine hours were considered normal sleepers. The researchers didn't
> consider such factors as depression, physical activity and gender.
>
> Among the findings being presented here at the annual meeting of the North
> American Association for the Study of Obesity, in partnership with the
> American Diabetes Association:
>
> . People who sleep two to four hours a night are 73% more likely to be obese
> than normal sleepers.
>
> . Those who get five hours of sleep are 50% more likely to be obese.
>
> . Those who sleep six hours were 23% more likely to be obese.
>
> . Those who get 10 or more hours are 11% less likely to be obese.
>
> "Getting more sleep actually had a protective effect against obesity," says
> lead researcher James E. Gangwisch. However, he points out that the study
> does not "prove cause and effect. It's an association."
>
> This research confirms other studies of children and adolescents that show
> the same relationship between sleep and obesity, he says. Animal studies
> also show that when rats are deprived of sleep, their appetites go way up.
>
> Researcher have theorized that lack of sleep may affect several hormones
> related to appetite and food intake, including leptin and ghrelin.
>
> "Sleep deprivation activates a small part of the hypothalamus (region of the
> brain) that is also involved in appetite regulation," says Eve Van Cauter of
> the University of Chicago, one of the nation's leading sleep researchers.
>
> Her study in November's Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism
> shows that sleep duration has a major impact on leptin. When people are
> sleep-deprived, their leptin levels are lower, which may cause the body to
> crave more food, she says.
>
> "It looks like weight control can be added to the long list of benefits of
> getting adequate sleep," Gangwisch says.

Great, so now I'm tired and hungry. This isn't going the right direction.

- bc

Dally
November 18th 04, 04:29 PM
bc wrote:

>>"It looks like weight control can be added to the long list of benefits of
>>getting adequate sleep," Gangwisch says.
>
>
> Great, so now I'm tired and hungry. This isn't going the right direction.

That's why I think there's a correlation. When I'm tired I don't have
the energy to get in a decent workout. And I crave the sort of energy
boost you can get from high glycemic foods. It's sort of the opposite
of an EC stack: it inclines me towards having less energy and increases
my appetite.

But in the end the correlation is just part of the lifestyle that gets
people fat. It's not lack of sleep that makes you fat, it's burning too
few calories while consuming too many. Lack of sleep just provides an
excuse why you chose to do that.

This reminds me of the headlines that children of smokers have worse
dental health. The implication touted in the AP blurb was that
second-hand smoke somehow causes cavities. I think a much better answer
lies in the general choices smokers make in regard to wellness issues.
Do you really think that people who don't care enough about their health
to smoke bother to floss their children's teeth?

Dally, who flosses her [very little] children's teeth for them

August Pamplona
November 18th 04, 05:48 PM
In ,
Dally > typed:
> bc wrote:
>
>>> "It looks like weight control can be added to the long list of
>>> benefits of getting adequate sleep," Gangwisch says.
>>
>>
>> Great, so now I'm tired and hungry. This isn't going the right
>> direction.
>
> That's why I think there's a correlation. When I'm tired I don't have
> the energy to get in a decent workout. And I crave the sort of energy
> boost you can get from high glycemic foods. It's sort of the opposite
> of an EC stack: it inclines me towards having less energy and
> increases my appetite.
>
> But in the end the correlation is just part of the lifestyle that gets
> people fat. It's not lack of sleep that makes you fat, it's burning
> too few calories while consuming too many. Lack of sleep just
> provides an excuse why you chose to do that.
>
> This reminds me of the headlines that children of smokers have worse
> dental health. The implication touted in the AP blurb was that
> second-hand smoke somehow causes cavities.

It could contribute. ETS could cause upper respiratory tract
irritation (I know it does for me). Which would lead to breathing
through the mouth. This would lead to a dry mouth (particularly at
night). Insufficient saliva is a good way to promote caries.

> I think a much better
> answer lies in the general choices smokers make in regard to wellness
> issues. Do you really think that people who don't care enough about
> their health to smoke bother to floss their children's teeth?
>
> Dally, who flosses her [very little] children's teeth for them

August Pamplona
--
The waterfall in Java is not wet.
- omegazero2003 on m.f.w.

a.a. # 1811 apatriot #20 Eater of smut
Proud member of the reality-based community.
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Lordy
November 18th 04, 11:14 PM
"Type Name Here" > wrote in news:UZUmd.17281
:

> . Those who get 10 or more hours are 11% less likely to be obese.
>

I'm sure I spotted an article about over sleeping and early mortality the
other week..

<ho hum ... Google .. "sleep mortality" ...>

E.g.

http://www.talkaboutsleep.com/sleepdisorders/insomnia_drjacobs_sleepduratio
nmortality.htm ??



--
Lordy

John Hanson
November 19th 04, 03:52 AM
On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 23:24:50 +1100, "Peter Webb"
> wrote in misc.fitness.weights:

>
>"Type Name Here" > wrote in message
. uk...
>> http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2004-11-16-sleep-weight_x.htm
>>
>> Nightmare of too little sleep is tied to too much weight
>> By Nanci Hellmich, USA TODAY
>> LAS VEGAS - If you want to lose weight, get more sleep.
>> That's the message from a large study being released today. It confirms
>> earlier research suggesting that sleep deprivation promotes weight gain.
>>
>> Researchers at Columbia University in New York looked back at sleep
>> patterns
>> and obesity rates among participants in the government's National Health
>> and
>> Nutrition Examination Survey from 1982-84 and then again in 1987. (More
>> recent surveys did not look at sleep patterns.)
>>
>> They examined the records of 6,115 people, ages 32-59. Participants were
>> categorized by the amount of sleep they got each night. Those who slept
>> for
>> seven to nine hours were considered normal sleepers. The researchers
>> didn't
>> consider such factors as depression, physical activity and gender.
>>
>> Among the findings being presented here at the annual meeting of the North
>> American Association for the Study of Obesity, in partnership with the
>> American Diabetes Association:
>>
>> . People who sleep two to four hours a night are 73% more likely to be
>> obese
>> than normal sleepers.
>>
>> . Those who get five hours of sleep are 50% more likely to be obese.
>>
>> . Those who sleep six hours were 23% more likely to be obese.
>>
>> . Those who get 10 or more hours are 11% less likely to be obese.
>>
>> "Getting more sleep actually had a protective effect against obesity,"
>> says
>> lead researcher James E. Gangwisch. However, he points out that the study
>> does not "prove cause and effect. It's an association."
>>
>> This research confirms other studies of children and adolescents that show
>> the same relationship between sleep and obesity, he says. Animal studies
>> also show that when rats are deprived of sleep, their appetites go way up.
>>
>> Researcher have theorized that lack of sleep may affect several hormones
>> related to appetite and food intake, including leptin and ghrelin.
>>
>> "Sleep deprivation activates a small part of the hypothalamus (region of
>> the
>> brain) that is also involved in appetite regulation," says Eve Van Cauter
>> of
>> the University of Chicago, one of the nation's leading sleep researchers.
>>
>> Her study in November's Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism
>> shows that sleep duration has a major impact on leptin. When people are
>> sleep-deprived, their leptin levels are lower, which may cause the body to
>> crave more food, she says.
>>
>> "It looks like weight control can be added to the long list of benefits of
>> getting adequate sleep," Gangwisch says.
>>
>>
>
>I quote:
>
>"> The researchers didn't
>> consider such factors as depression, physical activity and gender."
>
>They contend that people who get 5 hrs or less sleep a night are 50% more
>likely to be obese. The data as easily supports the theory that obese people
>need less sleep. Indeed, the older you are the less sleep you need and the
>more likely you are to be obese, so there might not be any causual
>relationship in either direction.
>
That whole "the older you are the less sleep" thing is a wives tale.
Older people usually can't or don't get as much sleep but they need
the same amount as when they were younger as long as they are somewhat
active.
>
>This is why you MUST consider factors such as depression, physical activity,
>gender, age, and health (and normalise these out of the data set) or your
>study is complete crap, which this one appears to be.
>
>Ohh, and BTW, studies have shown that in 90% of car accidents the driver
>applied the brakes immediately before the accident, and the brakes were
>active at the time of the accident. Therefore using the brakes causes car
>accidents ...
>
>
>
>

Geezer From The Freezer
November 19th 04, 09:39 AM
Lordy wrote:
>
> "Type Name Here" > wrote in news:UZUmd.17281
> :
>
> > . Those who get 10 or more hours are 11% less likely to be obese.
> >
>
> I'm sure I spotted an article about over sleeping and early mortality the
> other week..
>
> <ho hum ... Google .. "sleep mortality" ...>

Funny you should say that, I read something similiar a few years back. Something
along the lines of "people who get 6 hours sleep will, on average, live longer
than
someone who gets 10 hours of sleep"

rev
November 19th 04, 09:51 AM
Geezer From The Freezer > wrote in
:

>
>
> Lordy wrote:
>>
>> "Type Name Here" > wrote in news:UZUmd.17281
>> :
>>
>> > . Those who get 10 or more hours are 11% less likely to be obese.
>> >
>>
>> I'm sure I spotted an article about over sleeping and early mortality
>> the other week..
>>
>> <ho hum ... Google .. "sleep mortality" ...>
>
> Funny you should say that, I read something similiar a few years back.
> Something along the lines of "people who get 6 hours sleep will, on
> average, live longer than
> someone who gets 10 hours of sleep"
>

It's still all part of just a correlation as has been mentioned. Obese
people may well sleep less due to such things as sleep apnea etc. Older
people tend to sleep less (I have no idea if they NEED to sleep more) and
hence there is an association between hours slept age longevity.

For something that humans do for around a third of their lives we know very
little aboput sleep. Back in my Uni days, activity expended and time spent
sleeping was only correlated in elite athletes. The schools of thought as
to why we even need to sleep differ. I am sure others know much more than
me but the streams of argument that we "only sleep due to our evolutionary
pre-wiring that we don't need anymore (Sabre tooth tigers that killed those
that didnt't lay still in caves in the dark have been circumvented by
electricity)" versus the "we need to sleep to recuperate (either physically
or mentally)" both have evidence to support their theories.

Cheers

Bob

Geezer From The Freezer
November 19th 04, 11:18 AM
rev wrote:
> It's still all part of just a correlation as has been mentioned. Obese
> people may well sleep less due to such things as sleep apnea etc. Older
> people tend to sleep less (I have no idea if they NEED to sleep more) and
> hence there is an association between hours slept age longevity.
>
> For something that humans do for around a third of their lives we know very
> little aboput sleep. Back in my Uni days, activity expended and time spent
> sleeping was only correlated in elite athletes. The schools of thought as
> to why we even need to sleep differ. I am sure others know much more than
> me but the streams of argument that we "only sleep due to our evolutionary
> pre-wiring that we don't need anymore (Sabre tooth tigers that killed those
> that didnt't lay still in caves in the dark have been circumvented by
> electricity)" versus the "we need to sleep to recuperate (either physically
> or mentally)" both have evidence to support their theories.

Good points. I think it would be difficult to not sleep though, it would
probably take
generations of conditioning, if at all possible. I certainly wouldn't try it,
I hallucinate enough on beer :)

dr_dickie
November 19th 04, 12:22 PM
"Lordy" > wrote in message
.. .
> "Type Name Here" > wrote in news:UZUmd.17281
> :
>
> > . Those who get 10 or more hours are 11% less likely to be obese.
> >
>
> I'm sure I spotted an article about over sleeping and early mortality the
> other week..
>
> <ho hum ... Google .. "sleep mortality" ...>
>
> E.g.
>
>
http://www.talkaboutsleep.com/sleepdisorders/insomnia_drjacobs_sleepduratio
> nmortality.htm ??
>
>
>
> --
> Lordy

So if they die young enough, they never get a chance to be obese. Cool, the
moral is, "Always find the mechanism behind the madness."

Matt
November 19th 04, 02:53 PM
Dally > wrote in message >...
> bc wrote:
>
> >>"It looks like weight control can be added to the long list of benefits of
> >>getting adequate sleep," Gangwisch says.
> >
> >
> > Great, so now I'm tired and hungry. This isn't going the right direction.
>
> That's why I think there's a correlation. When I'm tired I don't have
> the energy to get in a decent workout. And I crave the sort of energy
> boost you can get from high glycemic foods. It's sort of the opposite
> of an EC stack: it inclines me towards having less energy and increases
> my appetite.
>
> But in the end the correlation is just part of the lifestyle that gets
> people fat. It's not lack of sleep that makes you fat, it's burning too
> few calories while consuming too many. Lack of sleep just provides an
> excuse why you chose to do that.
>
> This reminds me of the headlines that children of smokers have worse
> dental health. The implication touted in the AP blurb was that
> second-hand smoke somehow causes cavities. I think a much better answer
> lies in the general choices smokers make in regard to wellness issues.
> Do you really think that people who don't care enough about their health
> to smoke bother to floss their children's teeth?
>
> Dally, who flosses her [very little] children's teeth for them

That's a rather sweeping statement that implies smokers don't give a
damn about their children. It simply isn't true. Furthermore many
smokers do care about their health, they just haven't yet been able to
quit smoking. It's been a long time since I met a smoker that has
never tried to quit.

Regarding the sleep study. I think a good portion of people who lack
sleep, lack it because they put in too much overtime at work, which in
turn leads to obesity (and smoking). They should have taken into
account why the people in study were not getting enough sleep.

Matt.

Dally
November 19th 04, 03:24 PM
Matt wrote:

> Dally > wrote in message >...

>>This reminds me of the headlines that children of smokers have worse
>>dental health. The implication touted in the AP blurb was that
>>second-hand smoke somehow causes cavities. I think a much better answer
>>lies in the general choices smokers make in regard to wellness issues.
>>Do you really think that people who don't care enough about their health
>>to smoke bother to floss their children's teeth?
>>
>>Dally, who flosses her [very little] children's teeth for them
>
>
> That's a rather sweeping statement that implies smokers don't give a
> damn about their children. It simply isn't true.

It certainly isn't true. But that's not what I said. I said that
smokers - in general - put less value on wellness issues. We can debate
that if you like, but I have no intention of debating whether smokers
love their children.

Personally, it makes sense to me that people who don't take safety
precautions regarding their children's lungs might not take safety
precautions regarding their teeth for many of the same constellation of
behavioral / educational reasons.

There's an interesting section in the excellent book "The Tipping Point"
by Malcolm Gladwell on why smokers smoke. One of the reasons is that
they value risky behavior.

Of course, August could be right and it could be a side effect of
second-hand smoke.

> Furthermore many
> smokers do care about their health, they just haven't yet been able to
> quit smoking. It's been a long time since I met a smoker that has
> never tried to quit.

I don't doubt you. I also know lots of fat people who have tried to
diet. It's not easy, but it's possible to succeed in changing if you
decide to do it. But you've got to really value something to put that
sort of effort into it.

Dally

rick++
November 19th 04, 03:38 PM
I believe everything I read in the news on eating and health.
They speak in simple messages, agree with everyone else,
and never change their minds.

Paul Cassel
November 19th 04, 05:36 PM
Type Name Here wrote:
> http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2004-11-16-sleep-weight_x.htm
> The researchers didn't
> consider such factors as depression, physical activity and gender.
>
>

...and a lot more. What a waste of a 'study'.

00doc
November 19th 04, 07:08 PM
Dally > wrote in message >...
> bc wrote:
>
> >>"It looks like weight control can be added to the long list of benefits of
> >>getting adequate sleep," Gangwisch says.
> >
> >
> > Great, so now I'm tired and hungry. This isn't going the right direction.
>
> That's why I think there's a correlation.

Yeah - but as you point out - correlations can go both ways.

Maybe it is that fat people sleep less.

Maybe sleeping less makes you fat somehow.

Maybe something else (stress? hormones?) makes you sleep less and also
happens to make you fat.

It is an interesting finding that screams for more study but it is a
bit of a stretch to say that sleeping more will make you less fat.

--
00doc

MC
November 22nd 04, 06:27 AM
Spose if you are up later, that's more time to eat.
To send me e-mail remove the sevens
from my address.

Chung-Chen Lin
November 24th 04, 09:20 PM
"Peter Webb" > wrote in message >...
> "Type Name Here" > wrote in message
> . uk...
> > http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2004-11-16-sleep-weight_x.htm
> > [ Some correlation between sleep and obesity deleted... ]
>
> I quote:
>
> "> The researchers didn't
> > consider such factors as depression, physical activity and gender."
>
> They contend that people who get 5 hrs or less sleep a night are 50% more
> likely to be obese. The data as easily supports the theory that obese people
> need less sleep. Indeed, the older you are the less sleep you need and the
> more likely you are to be obese, so there might not be any causual
> relationship in either direction.
>
>
> This is why you MUST consider factors such as depression, physical activity,
> gender, age, and health (and normalise these out of the data set) or your
> study is complete crap, which this one appears to be.
>
> Ohh, and BTW, studies have shown that in 90% of car accidents the driver
> applied the brakes immediately before the accident, and the brakes were
> active at the time of the accident. Therefore using the brakes causes car
> accidents ...

LOL. Alot of these studies only show the conclusion but doesn't
neccessary indicate the actual cause. As you've say, by eliminating
gender, age, health, and IMO their life-style in general, it only
shows a correlation and people shouldn't believe lack of sleep is root
cause to obesity. A possible explanation is people who sleep less
than X hours generally have more responsibiilities; therefore, they
prefer snacking on junk foods as healthy food usually takes more time
to prepare. There are many possibilities for the cause. The
correlation between A and B doesn't mean A causes B if there are too
many un-controllable varibles. But some people will blindly believe A
is the root cause to B.