PDA

View Full Version : Proper Squat Technique


FE
November 18th 04, 04:55 AM
Hi,

After a long, long hiatus from squats due to a lower back problem, I
recently decided to try them again. I am not a body builder or a
weight-lifting expert. I am just an occasional weekend warrier who, in the
past, felt that squats helped him run faster and jump higher in whatever
sport he participated in.

I would like to find a web site (or book) whose writer is a known authority
on proper squat technique. I would like such a site to give step-by-step
descriptions of proper form and include pictures with every single step. I
have seen some fairly detailed instructions on the web, but the instructions
were not generally accompanied by pictures. If there were pictures, they
weren't terribly helpful to me. Without pictures I have not been able to
fully visualize in my mind what proper technique entails.

Does anyone know a web site like this?

Thanks.

shumway
November 19th 04, 02:58 PM
Lyle McDonald wrote:

> shumway wrote:
>
>>
>> Excellent site. The first one I have seen that has photographs taken
>> from
>> the proper angles and emphasizes the balance issues. In the bad squat
>> section he suggests the the lifters not use basketball/jogging shoes.
>> What
>> is bad about these and what kind of shoes should be used? Are
>> specialized weightlifting shows needed?
>
> You don't need specialized shoes but you do need smething with decent
> suport. Otherwise your push tends to squish around in the shoe rather
> than going to standing up.
>

Do you know what jva is getting at with his dislike of basketball/jogging
shoes for squatting?

I use cross-trainers (just because I find them the most comfortable). I
think that these would be lumped in with basketball/jogging. I wonder if I
should switch to something else; maybe even dig out my old wrestling shoes.


> Lyle

Jeff Finlayson
November 19th 04, 04:10 PM
shumway wrote:
> Lyle McDonald wrote:
>>shumway wrote:

>>>Excellent site. The first one I have seen that has photographs taken
>>>from the proper angles and emphasizes the balance issues. In the bad
>>>squat section he suggests the the lifters not use basketball/jogging
>>>shoes. What
>>>is bad about these and what kind of shoes should be used? Are
>>>specialized weightlifting shows needed?
>>
>>You don't need specialized shoes but you do need smething with decent
>>suport. Otherwise your push tends to squish around in the shoe rather
>>than going to standing up.
>
> Do you know what jva is getting at with his dislike of basketball/jogging
> shoes for squatting?

Lyle explained it above. The sole is too squishy.

> I use cross-trainers (just because I find them the most comfortable). I
> think that these would be lumped in with basketball/jogging. I wonder if I
> should switch to something else; maybe even dig out my old wrestling shoes.

Wrestling shoes would be an improvement. They should work fine if you don't
use too wide of a stance.

Jeff Finlayson
November 19th 04, 04:15 PM
Lyle McDonald wrote:
> shumway wrote:
>> Hugh Beyer wrote:
>>> "FE" wrote

>>>> I would like to find a web site (or book) whose writer is a known
>>>> authority on proper squat technique. I would like such a site to give
>>>> step-by-step descriptions of proper form and include pictures with
>>>> every
>>>> single step. I have seen some fairly detailed instructions on the web,
>>>> but the instructions were not generally accompanied by pictures. If
>>>> there were pictures, they weren't terribly helpful to me. Without
>>>> pictures I have not been able to fully visualize in my mind what proper
>>>> technique entails.

>>> Have a look at the good squat/bad squat link on
>>> http://jva.ontariostrongman.ca/ -- it's a good analysis of squat
>>> technique.

>> Excellent site. The first one I have seen that has photographs taken
>> from the proper angles and emphasizes the balance issues. In the
>> bad squat section he suggests the the lifters not use basketball/jogging
>> shoes. What
>> is bad about these and what kind of shoes should be used? Are
>> specialized weightlifting shows needed?
>
> You don't need specialized shoes but you do need smething with decent
> suport. Otherwise your push tends to squish around in the shoe rather
> than going to standing up.
> Lyle

The squishy sole doesn't help when walking out and setting up to
squat as well.

shumway
November 19th 04, 04:41 PM
Jeff Finlayson wrote:

> shumway wrote:
>> Lyle McDonald wrote:
>>>shumway wrote:
>
>>>>Excellent site. The first one I have seen that has photographs taken
>>>>from the proper angles and emphasizes the balance issues. In the bad
>>>>squat section he suggests the the lifters not use basketball/jogging
>>>>shoes. What
>>>>is bad about these and what kind of shoes should be used? Are
>>>>specialized weightlifting shows needed?
>>>
>>>You don't need specialized shoes but you do need smething with decent
>>>suport. Otherwise your push tends to squish around in the shoe rather
>>>than going to standing up.
>>
>> Do you know what jva is getting at with his dislike of basketball/jogging
>> shoes for squatting?
>
> Lyle explained it above. The sole is too squishy.

My mistake, I thought he getting at the foot moving around bacause of the
fit, thanks. What kind of shoes don't have a soft sole? Even most dress
shoes have gone to softsoles (not that I am going to wear a pair of
wingtips).

>
>> I use cross-trainers (just because I find them the most comfortable). I
>> think that these would be lumped in with basketball/jogging. I wonder if
>> I should switch to something else; maybe even dig out my old wrestling
>> shoes.
>
> Wrestling shoes would be an improvement. They should work fine if you
> don't use too wide of a stance.

Wrestling shoes are basically a pair of socks with a traction sole. What is
the issue with the wide stance?

Lyle McDonald
November 19th 04, 04:43 PM
shumway wrote:

> Lyle McDonald wrote:
>
>
>>shumway wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Excellent site. The first one I have seen that has photographs taken
>>>from
>>>the proper angles and emphasizes the balance issues. In the bad squat
>>>section he suggests the the lifters not use basketball/jogging shoes.
>>>What
>>>is bad about these and what kind of shoes should be used? Are
>>>specialized weightlifting shows needed?
>>
>>You don't need specialized shoes but you do need smething with decent
>>suport. Otherwise your push tends to squish around in the shoe rather
>>than going to standing up.
>>
>
>
> Do you know what jva is getting at with his dislike of basketball/jogging
> shoes for squatting?

For ****'s sake, how many times does the SAME thing need to be said
before you understand it?

He said it CLEARLY on his site.
I repeated it.

****.

Lyle

Peter Allen
November 19th 04, 04:50 PM
"shumway" > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Lyle McDonald wrote:
>
> > shumway wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Excellent site. The first one I have seen that has photographs taken
> >> from
> >> the proper angles and emphasizes the balance issues. In the bad squat
> >> section he suggests the the lifters not use basketball/jogging shoes.
> >> What
> >> is bad about these and what kind of shoes should be used? Are
> >> specialized weightlifting shows needed?
> >
> > You don't need specialized shoes but you do need smething with decent
> > suport. Otherwise your push tends to squish around in the shoe rather
> > than going to standing up.
> >
>
> Do you know what jva is getting at with his dislike of basketball/jogging
> shoes for squatting?
>
> I use cross-trainers (just because I find them the most comfortable). I
> think that these would be lumped in with basketball/jogging. I wonder if
I
> should switch to something else; maybe even dig out my old wrestling
shoes.

I think the sole is supposed to squash down under the weight and leave you
wearing loose-fitting uncomfortable shoes. But either my shoes are too crap
to squash much, or more likely my squat is too crap to squash much.

Peter

John Hanson
November 19th 04, 04:54 PM
On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 10:10:56 -0600, Jeff Finlayson
> wrote in misc.fitness.weights:

>shumway wrote:
>> Lyle McDonald wrote:
>>>shumway wrote:
>
>>>>Excellent site. The first one I have seen that has photographs taken
>>>>from the proper angles and emphasizes the balance issues. In the bad
>>>>squat section he suggests the the lifters not use basketball/jogging
>>>>shoes. What
>>>>is bad about these and what kind of shoes should be used? Are
>>>>specialized weightlifting shows needed?
>>>
>>>You don't need specialized shoes but you do need smething with decent
>>>suport. Otherwise your push tends to squish around in the shoe rather
>>>than going to standing up.
>>
>> Do you know what jva is getting at with his dislike of basketball/jogging
>> shoes for squatting?
>
>Lyle explained it above. The sole is too squishy.
>
>> I use cross-trainers (just because I find them the most comfortable). I
>> think that these would be lumped in with basketball/jogging. I wonder if I
>> should switch to something else; maybe even dig out my old wrestling shoes.
>
>Wrestling shoes would be an improvement. They should work fine if you don't
>use too wide of a stance.

I did a couple sets of squats last night in my wrestling shoes after
deadlifts and had to widen my stance to compensate for the lack of
heel.

Jeff Finlayson
November 19th 04, 04:58 PM
shumway wrote:
> Jeff Finlayson wrote:
>>shumway wrote:

>>>I use cross-trainers (just because I find them the most comfortable). I
>>>think that these would be lumped in with basketball/jogging. I wonder if
>>>I should switch to something else; maybe even dig out my old wrestling
>>>shoes.
>>
>>Wrestling shoes would be an improvement. They should work fine if you
>>don't use too wide of a stance.
>
> Wrestling shoes are basically a pair of socks with a traction sole.
> What is the issue with the wide stance?

I know what wrestling shoes/boot are. I use a pair for speed squats &
deadlifts each week. They lack good ankle support and the soles are
narrower. These points come into play more with wider stances.

shumway
November 19th 04, 05:11 PM
Lyle McDonald wrote:

> shumway wrote:
>
>> Lyle McDonald wrote:
>>
>>
>>>shumway wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Excellent site. The first one I have seen that has photographs taken
>>>>from
>>>>the proper angles and emphasizes the balance issues. In the bad squat
>>>>section he suggests the the lifters not use basketball/jogging shoes.
>>>>What
>>>>is bad about these and what kind of shoes should be used? Are
>>>>specialized weightlifting shows needed?
>>>
>>>You don't need specialized shoes but you do need smething with decent
>>>suport. Otherwise your push tends to squish around in the shoe rather
>>>than going to standing up.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Do you know what jva is getting at with his dislike of basketball/jogging
>> shoes for squatting?
>
> For ****'s sake, how many times does the SAME thing need to be said
> before you understand it?

I suppose infinite, since repeating the same unclear concept is not much
help (:


>
> He said it CLEARLY on his site.
> I repeated it.
>

Decent support does not really tell me much. The selling point behind
basketball/jogging shoes is that they have decent support. I see now what
you meant is firm support (or no support as in wrestling shoes).

Peter seemed to have explained it quite well:

"I think the sole is supposed to squash down under the weight and leave you
wearing loose-fitting uncomfortable shoes. But either my shoes are too crap
to squash much, or more likely my squat is too crap to squash much."



> ****.
>
> Lyle

Keith Hobman
November 19th 04, 06:38 PM
In article <[email protected]>, shumway > wrote:

> Lyle McDonald wrote:
>
> > shumway wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Excellent site. The first one I have seen that has photographs taken
> >> from
> >> the proper angles and emphasizes the balance issues. In the bad squat
> >> section he suggests the the lifters not use basketball/jogging shoes.
> >> What
> >> is bad about these and what kind of shoes should be used? Are
> >> specialized weightlifting shows needed?
> >
> > You don't need specialized shoes but you do need smething with decent
> > suport. Otherwise your push tends to squish around in the shoe rather
> > than going to standing up.
> >
>
> Do you know what jva is getting at with his dislike of basketball/jogging
> shoes for squatting?
>
> I use cross-trainers (just because I find them the most comfortable). I
> think that these would be lumped in with basketball/jogging. I wonder if I
> should switch to something else; maybe even dig out my old wrestling shoes.

Another decent shoe for a narrow stance olympic squat are indoor soccer shoes.

Keith Hobman
November 19th 04, 06:39 PM
In article >, Jeff Finlayson
> wrote:

> shumway wrote:
> > Lyle McDonald wrote:
> >>shumway wrote:
>
> >>>Excellent site. The first one I have seen that has photographs taken
> >>>from the proper angles and emphasizes the balance issues. In the bad
> >>>squat section he suggests the the lifters not use basketball/jogging
> >>>shoes. What
> >>>is bad about these and what kind of shoes should be used? Are
> >>>specialized weightlifting shows needed?
> >>
> >>You don't need specialized shoes but you do need smething with decent
> >>suport. Otherwise your push tends to squish around in the shoe rather
> >>than going to standing up.
> >
> > Do you know what jva is getting at with his dislike of basketball/jogging
> > shoes for squatting?
>
> Lyle explained it above. The sole is too squishy.
>
> > I use cross-trainers (just because I find them the most comfortable). I
> > think that these would be lumped in with basketball/jogging. I wonder if I
> > should switch to something else; maybe even dig out my old wrestling shoes.
>
> Wrestling shoes would be an improvement. They should work fine if you don't
> use too wide of a stance.

They work fine with a very wide stance too - see Dave Tate. 900+ with 42"
or so between the heels in wrestling boots.

Jeff Finlayson
November 19th 04, 07:30 PM
Keith Hobman wrote:
> Jeff Finlayson wrote:
>>shumway wrote:

>>>I use cross-trainers (just because I find them the most comfortable). I
>>>think that these would be lumped in with basketball/jogging. I wonder if I
>>>should switch to something else; maybe even dig out my old wrestling shoes.
>>
>>Wrestling shoes would be an improvement. They should work fine if you don't
>>use too wide of a stance.
>
> They work fine with a very wide stance too - see Dave Tate. 900+ with 42"
> or so between the heels in wrestling boots.

I didn't mean they were wouldn't work for wide stance. Depends on
the particular type of wrestling shoe, I suppose.

Compared to squat shoes, wrestling shoes/boots generally have less
ankle support and narrower soles.

Mistress Krista
November 20th 04, 01:31 PM
"Keith Hobman" > wrote in message
...
>
> Another decent shoe for a narrow stance olympic squat are indoor soccer
> shoes.


I've known folks on university OL teams to wear bowling shoes. And Lyle
mocks me for it but my $20 army surplus boots worked great for years.


Krista

--
http://www.stumptuous.com/weights.html
http://www.trans-health.com
mistresskrista at stumptuous dot com

Steve Freides
November 20th 04, 05:18 PM
"Mistress Krista" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Keith Hobman" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> Another decent shoe for a narrow stance olympic squat are indoor
>> soccer shoes.
>
>
> I've known folks on university OL teams to wear bowling shoes. And
> Lyle mocks me for it but my $20 army surplus boots worked great for
> years.

You, Keith, or anyone else care to try one more time explaining to me
why I should use those nice Oly shoes I bought, or should I just squat
in my Allstars and be happy?

I'm squatting in Olympic style but I've got, from other athletic
pursuits, flexibility training, and the little bit of squatting I've
already got under my belt, the ability to squat rock bottom while still
keeping a flat back or even a bit of inward arch - all while wearing
Allstars. I tried the Olympic shoes for the first few months but all I
found was that my knees ended up further forward, not a horrible thing
but not a good or necessary thing, I don't think, and I can't find a
single reason I ought to use the Oly shoes - except that everyone does
and I feel like I've just missed something about the explanation. Maybe
the weight (around 1.5 x bodyweight and a bit above) isn't heavy enough
yet?

Steve "Lord knows, I do most things differently than most people,
anyway" Freides
http://www.kbnj.com

Lyle McDonald
November 20th 04, 07:54 PM
Mistress Krista wrote:

> "Keith Hobman" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Another decent shoe for a narrow stance olympic squat are indoor soccer
>>shoes.
>
>
>
> I've known folks on university OL teams to wear bowling shoes. And Lyle
> mocks me for it but my $20 army surplus boots worked great for years.

Not even remotely why I mock you.

I mock you for being a dip**** guru riot grrl wannabe.

Lyle

PostHoc
November 20th 04, 08:28 PM
Steve Freides > wrote in message
...
> "Mistress Krista" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Keith Hobman" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >>
> >> Another decent shoe for a narrow stance olympic squat are indoor
> >> soccer shoes.
> >
> >
> > I've known folks on university OL teams to wear bowling shoes. And
> > Lyle mocks me for it but my $20 army surplus boots worked great for
> > years.
>
> You, Keith, or anyone else care to try one more time explaining to me
> why I should use those nice Oly shoes I bought, or should I just squat
> in my Allstars and be happy?
>
> I'm squatting in Olympic style but I've got, from other athletic
> pursuits, flexibility training, and the little bit of squatting I've
> already got under my belt, the ability to squat rock bottom while still
> keeping a flat back or even a bit of inward arch - all while wearing
> Allstars. I tried the Olympic shoes for the first few months but all I
> found was that my knees ended up further forward, not a horrible thing
> but not a good or necessary thing, I don't think, and I can't find a
> single reason I ought to use the Oly shoes - except that everyone does
> and I feel like I've just missed something about the explanation. Maybe
> the weight (around 1.5 x bodyweight and a bit above) isn't heavy enough
> yet?
>
> Steve "Lord knows, I do most things differently than most people,
> anyway" Freides
> http://www.kbnj.com
>
>
>

if you are using squats as an adjunct for your olympic lifts, then use ol'er
shoes

otherwise, it doesn't matter

whit

Mick R.
November 20th 04, 08:45 PM
"Lyle McDonald" > wrote in message
...
> Mistress Krista wrote:
>
> > "Keith Hobman" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >>Another decent shoe for a narrow stance olympic squat are indoor soccer
> >>shoes.
> >
> >
> >
> > I've known folks on university OL teams to wear bowling shoes. And Lyle
> > mocks me for it but my $20 army surplus boots worked great for years.
>
> Not even remotely why I mock you.
>
> I mock you for being a dip**** guru riot grrl wannabe.
>

So she's Tank Girl but in a VW Beetle.

> Lyle
>

Keith Hobman
November 21st 04, 03:48 AM
In article >, "Steve Freides"
> wrote:

> "Mistress Krista" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Keith Hobman" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >>
> >> Another decent shoe for a narrow stance olympic squat are indoor
> >> soccer shoes.
> >
> >
> > I've known folks on university OL teams to wear bowling shoes. And
> > Lyle mocks me for it but my $20 army surplus boots worked great for
> > years.
>
> You, Keith, or anyone else care to try one more time explaining to me
> why I should use those nice Oly shoes I bought, or should I just squat
> in my Allstars and be happy?
>
> I'm squatting in Olympic style but I've got, from other athletic
> pursuits, flexibility training, and the little bit of squatting I've
> already got under my belt, the ability to squat rock bottom while still
> keeping a flat back or even a bit of inward arch - all while wearing
> Allstars. I tried the Olympic shoes for the first few months but all I
> found was that my knees ended up further forward, not a horrible thing
> but not a good or necessary thing, I don't think, and I can't find a
> single reason I ought to use the Oly shoes - except that everyone does
> and I feel like I've just missed something about the explanation. Maybe
> the weight (around 1.5 x bodyweight and a bit above) isn't heavy enough
> yet?

If you can front squat rock bottom with a heavy weight and OH squat with a
heavy weight in All-stars no problem then there is no reason to wear the
olympic style shoes. If you are not planning on competing in OL there is
no real compelling reason to front squat or OH squat either.

But you did show us a video where you were rounding your lower back to get
depth and argued at the time that this was good form. So I'm suspicious of
whether you flexibility is really all that great down deep. The other
squats I've watched aren't deep.

So it all comes down to pelvic position. If it is good - no need to wear heels.

Lucas Buck
November 21st 04, 08:39 AM
On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 08:31:55 -0500, "Mistress Krista"
> wrote:

>
>"Keith Hobman" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> Another decent shoe for a narrow stance olympic squat are indoor soccer
>> shoes.
>
>
>I've known folks on university OL teams to wear bowling shoes. And Lyle
>mocks me for it but my $20 army surplus boots worked great for years.

Then what happened?

They get drafted?

Lucas Buck
November 21st 04, 08:39 AM
On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 12:54:10 -0700, Lyle McDonald
> wrote:

>Mistress Krista wrote:
>
>> "Keith Hobman" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>Another decent shoe for a narrow stance olympic squat are indoor soccer
>>>shoes.
>>
>>
>>
>> I've known folks on university OL teams to wear bowling shoes. And Lyle
>> mocks me for it but my $20 army surplus boots worked great for years.
>
>Not even remotely why I mock you.
>
>I mock you for being a dip**** guru riot grrl wannabe.

That's such a hackneyed phrase.

Steve Freides
November 21st 04, 08:15 PM
"Keith Hobman" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, "Steve Freides"
> > wrote:
>
>> "Mistress Krista" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >
>> > "Keith Hobman" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >>
>> >> Another decent shoe for a narrow stance olympic squat are indoor
>> >> soccer shoes.
>> >
>> >
>> > I've known folks on university OL teams to wear bowling shoes. And
>> > Lyle mocks me for it but my $20 army surplus boots worked great for
>> > years.
>>
>> You, Keith, or anyone else care to try one more time explaining to me
>> why I should use those nice Oly shoes I bought, or should I just
>> squat
>> in my Allstars and be happy?
>>
>> I'm squatting in Olympic style but I've got, from other athletic
>> pursuits, flexibility training, and the little bit of squatting I've
>> already got under my belt, the ability to squat rock bottom while
>> still
>> keeping a flat back or even a bit of inward arch - all while wearing
>> Allstars. I tried the Olympic shoes for the first few months but all
>> I
>> found was that my knees ended up further forward, not a horrible
>> thing
>> but not a good or necessary thing, I don't think, and I can't find a
>> single reason I ought to use the Oly shoes - except that everyone
>> does
>> and I feel like I've just missed something about the explanation.
>> Maybe
>> the weight (around 1.5 x bodyweight and a bit above) isn't heavy
>> enough
>> yet?
>
> If you can front squat rock bottom with a heavy weight and OH squat
> with a
> heavy weight in All-stars no problem then there is no reason to wear
> the
> olympic style shoes. If you are not planning on competing in OL there
> is
> no real compelling reason to front squat or OH squat either.
>
> But you did show us a video where you were rounding your lower back to
> get
> depth and argued at the time that this was good form. So I'm
> suspicious of
> whether you flexibility is really all that great down deep. The other
> squats I've watched aren't deep.
>
> So it all comes down to pelvic position. If it is good - no need to
> wear heels.

No point in debating squat depth and what's "down deep" - I'm well past
legal and my back is definitely good (I've been taping and watching on
the camera), so I'll be content with my AllStars. I do some lifts in
training at weights I can't manage to full depth and I just try to keep
those legal. I'd post a video clip but we got a new computer and don't
have the cables to connect the camera to it and won't for another few
days - I just realized this and just ordered them.

I appreciate the opinions, Keith - thanks.

FWIW, I think shoulder and upper back flexibility is a compelling reason
to OHS although not necessarily to work on heavy or for high reps. I've
been working on them lately with one or two kettlebells or dumbbells -
talk about a killer exercise with a light weight! Actually easier with
kettlebells than dumbbells because you can hold your arms a little
further forward.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com