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Jogenn Blake
November 20th 04, 10:01 PM
I am a newbie.
I have modelled my training on Stuart McRobert's book "Beyond Brawn"

My bodyweight is now 156lbs

I am doing chins with bodyweight plus 16.5lbs for 5 reps
1 arm dumbell rows with 90.5lbs each hand for 5 reps

I now want to switch to the barbell bent over row to substitute for
the 1 arm dumbell rows because it is hard to get a full range of
motion with the dumbell row. Also I just like the feel of the barbell
move better.

Questions:

1) Stuart McRobert says barbell rows are liable to cause injury. Is
this true? Why? The movement actually feels really good and natural to
me. I love it.
2) Given the above weights I am lifting on the 1 arm row, what would
be a good starting weight on the barbell bent over row?
3) Stuart McRobert says that for a target weight to aim for on the 1
arm row to have 16 inch arms would be 110 for 6 reps. What would be an
equivalent target weight on the barbell row? I know this is obviously
approximate, but I like to have a target to aim for so that I know
when I get there I will be fairly strong at my bodyweight of 156lbs?

Thanks guys.

Andrew Webber
November 21st 04, 12:11 AM
"Jogenn Blake" > wrote in message
om...
>I am a newbie.
> I have modelled my training on Stuart McRobert's book "Beyond Brawn"
>
> My bodyweight is now 156lbs
>
> I am doing chins with bodyweight plus 16.5lbs for 5 reps
> 1 arm dumbell rows with 90.5lbs each hand for 5 reps
>
> I now want to switch to the barbell bent over row to substitute for
> the 1 arm dumbell rows because it is hard to get a full range of
> motion with the dumbell row. Also I just like the feel of the barbell
> move better.

the weight is too heavy, just by the nature of the exercise, you have an
increase range of motion

> Questions:
>
> 1) Stuart McRobert says barbell rows are liable to cause injury. Is
> this true? Why? The movement actually feels really good and natural to
> me. I love it.

Any exercise can injure you done with bad technique, its a great exercise,
lots of people swear by it

> 2) Given the above weights I am lifting on the 1 arm row, what would
> be a good starting weight on the barbell bent over row?

dont know, i think you are using too much weight on the one arm row if u
cant complete a full ROM.

> 3) Stuart McRobert says that for a target weight to aim for on the 1
> arm row to have 16 inch arms would be 110 for 6 reps. What would be an
> equivalent target weight on the barbell row? I know this is obviously
> approximate, but I like to have a target to aim for so that I know
> when I get there I will be fairly strong at my bodyweight of 156lbs?

thats utter BS its impossible to say

> Thanks guys.

New Training Forum at www.Iron-City.net

Paul Cassel
November 21st 04, 03:46 PM
Jogenn Blake wrote:

>
> I now want to switch to the barbell bent over row to substitute for
> the 1 arm dumbell rows because it is hard to get a full range of
> motion with the dumbell row. Also I just like the feel of the barbell
> move better.
>

The ROM with the dumbell s/b greater than the barbell. Check your
technique.

Based on your dumbell weight, I'd say start the barbell at about 130 lbs
or 60 kg and see how that feels. That s/b safe and if you feel you wish
more, then go for it, but I'd seriously consider checking your dumbell
form first. The big diff you'll feel is moving from the neutral to the
overhand or underhand hand position. Try both as they are different and
both are effective.

-paul

Stephen Mulholland
November 21st 04, 05:45 PM
"Jogenn Blake" > wrote in message
om...
> I am a newbie.
> I have modelled my training on Stuart McRobert's book "Beyond Brawn"
>
> My bodyweight is now 156lbs
>
> I am doing chins with bodyweight plus 16.5lbs for 5 reps
> 1 arm dumbell rows with 90.5lbs each hand for 5 reps
>
> I now want to switch to the barbell bent over row to substitute for
> the 1 arm dumbell rows because it is hard to get a full range of
> motion with the dumbell row. Also I just like the feel of the barbell
> move better.
>
> Questions:
>
> 1) Stuart McRobert says barbell rows are liable to cause injury. Is
> this true? Why? The movement actually feels really good and natural to
> me. I love it.
> 2) Given the above weights I am lifting on the 1 arm row, what would
> be a good starting weight on the barbell bent over row?
> 3) Stuart McRobert says that for a target weight to aim for on the 1
> arm row to have 16 inch arms would be 110 for 6 reps.


Waddaloada****e. Currently, I'm doing pullups +20 lb for 3 sets of five, DB
rows at 100 lb for 3 X 5, weigh 190-ish lbs, and have 14.5 inch arms on a
good day. There's just no sense to his statement.

Stephen


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aj
November 21st 04, 06:54 PM
On 2004-11-21, Stephen Mulholland > wrote:
>
> "Jogenn Blake" > wrote in message
> om...
>> I am a newbie.
>> I have modelled my training on Stuart McRobert's book "Beyond Brawn"
>>
>> My bodyweight is now 156lbs
>>
>> I am doing chins with bodyweight plus 16.5lbs for 5 reps
>> 1 arm dumbell rows with 90.5lbs each hand for 5 reps
>>
>> I now want to switch to the barbell bent over row to substitute for
>> the 1 arm dumbell rows because it is hard to get a full range of
>> motion with the dumbell row. Also I just like the feel of the barbell
>> move better.
>>
>> Questions:
>>
>> 1) Stuart McRobert says barbell rows are liable to cause injury. Is
>> this true? Why? The movement actually feels really good and natural to
>> me. I love it.
>> 2) Given the above weights I am lifting on the 1 arm row, what would
>> be a good starting weight on the barbell bent over row?
>> 3) Stuart McRobert says that for a target weight to aim for on the 1
>> arm row to have 16 inch arms would be 110 for 6 reps.
>
>
> Waddaloada****e. Currently, I'm doing pullups +20 lb for 3 sets of five, DB
> rows at 100 lb for 3 X 5, weigh 190-ish lbs, and have 14.5 inch arms on a
> good day. There's just no sense to his statement.
>
> Stephen

With my clothes, boots and pocket litter I weigh 200lbs.
I do weighted pullups for 3 sets of 5 with 80lbs on a belt.

I've never measured my arms before. Sitting here with a big flex, I
only seem to get 14 inches.

--
-aj

Jogenn Blake
November 21st 04, 07:02 PM
Hi Andrew,
and thanks for your comments.
The only reason I can't do a full ROM on the db row is that when I
load up the
plates on the dumbell, the plates get in the way at the top of the
movement, which is obviously not the case with a barbell.

Cheers

jogenn



"Andrew Webber" > wrote in message >...
> "Jogenn Blake" > wrote in message
> om...
> >I am a newbie.
> > I have modelled my training on Stuart McRobert's book "Beyond Brawn"
> >
> > My bodyweight is now 156lbs
> >
> > I am doing chins with bodyweight plus 16.5lbs for 5 reps
> > 1 arm dumbell rows with 90.5lbs each hand for 5 reps
> >
> > I now want to switch to the barbell bent over row to substitute for
> > the 1 arm dumbell rows because it is hard to get a full range of
> > motion with the dumbell row. Also I just like the feel of the barbell
> > move better.
>
> the weight is too heavy, just by the nature of the exercise, you have an
> increase range of motion
>
> > Questions:
> >
> > 1) Stuart McRobert says barbell rows are liable to cause injury. Is
> > this true? Why? The movement actually feels really good and natural to
> > me. I love it.
>
> Any exercise can injure you done with bad technique, its a great exercise,
> lots of people swear by it
>
> > 2) Given the above weights I am lifting on the 1 arm row, what would
> > be a good starting weight on the barbell bent over row?
>
> dont know, i think you are using too much weight on the one arm row if u
> cant complete a full ROM.
>
> > 3) Stuart McRobert says that for a target weight to aim for on the 1
> > arm row to have 16 inch arms would be 110 for 6 reps. What would be an
> > equivalent target weight on the barbell row? I know this is obviously
> > approximate, but I like to have a target to aim for so that I know
> > when I get there I will be fairly strong at my bodyweight of 156lbs?
>
> thats utter BS its impossible to say
>
> > Thanks guys.
>
> New Training Forum at www.Iron-City.net

Jeff Finlayson
November 22nd 04, 12:01 AM
Jogenn Blake wrote:

> I am a newbie.
> I have modelled my training on Stuart McRobert's book "Beyond Brawn"
> My bodyweight is now 156lbs
>
> I am doing chins with bodyweight plus 16.5lbs for 5 reps
> 1 arm dumbell rows with 90.5lbs each hand for 5 reps
>
> I now want to switch to the barbell bent over row to substitute for
> the 1 arm dumbell rows because it is hard to get a full range of
> motion with the dumbell row. Also I just like the feel of the barbell
> move better.

If can't you get full ROM with DB rows, it's probably just bad form.
Get your elbow out a bit and bring the DB to the chest, not stomach.

> Questions:
> 1) Stuart McRobert says barbell rows are liable to cause injury. Is
> this true? Why? The movement actually feels really good and natural to
> me. I love it.

Just his opinion. There's some risk with everything. Even more so
with bad form. Make sure not to sacrifice form for more weight/reps.

> 2) Given the above weights I am lifting on the 1 arm row, what would
> be a good starting weight on the barbell bent over row?
> 3) Stuart McRobert says that for a target weight to aim for on the 1
> arm row to have 16 inch arms would be 110 for 6 reps. What would be an
> equivalent target weight on the barbell row? I know this is obviously
> approximate, but I like to have a target to aim for so that I know
> when I get there I will be fairly strong at my bodyweight of 156lbs?

Rows are mostly back exercises. So arm size means little and being
big doesn't necessarily mean being strong.

Art S
November 22nd 04, 03:35 AM
"Jeff Finlayson" > wrote in message ...
> Jogenn Blake wrote:
>
> > I am a newbie.
> > I have modelled my training on Stuart McRobert's book "Beyond Brawn"
> > My bodyweight is now 156lbs
> >
> > I am doing chins with bodyweight plus 16.5lbs for 5 reps
> > 1 arm dumbell rows with 90.5lbs each hand for 5 reps
> >
> > I now want to switch to the barbell bent over row to substitute for
> > the 1 arm dumbell rows because it is hard to get a full range of
> > motion with the dumbell row. Also I just like the feel of the barbell
> > move better.
>
> If can't you get full ROM with DB rows, it's probably just bad form.
> Get your elbow out a bit and bring the DB to the chest, not stomach.
>

Let's add another possibility: you have two dumbbells. One has 90 lbs -
two 45's. The other has 90 lbs - 8 10's and 2 5's. Assuming you had
the requisite strength, which do you think you could lift higher (Using
a 1-arm dumbbell row, of course)?

Art

Jeff Finlayson
November 22nd 04, 05:33 AM
Art S thought a little & wrote:
> Jeff Finlayson wrote:
>>Jogenn Blake wrote:

>>>I now want to switch to the barbell bent over row to substitute for
>>>the 1 arm dumbell rows because it is hard to get a full range of
>>>motion with the dumbell row. Also I just like the feel of the barbell
>>>move better.
>>
>>If can't you get full ROM with DB rows, it's probably just bad form.
>>Get your elbow out a bit and bring the DB to the chest, not stomach.
>
> Let's add another possibility: you have two dumbbells. One has 90 lbs -
> two 45's. The other has 90 lbs - 8 10's and 2 5's. Assuming you had
> the requisite strength, which do you think you could lift higher (Using
> a 1-arm dumbbell row, of course)?

Note my use "probably" above.

There's little difference between COMMON dumbbells and a bar. Bringing
the dumbbell to the side of the torso can somewhat negate that. With a
wider grip on the bar, the ROM can be the same for both exercises.

spodosaurus
November 22nd 04, 10:46 AM
aj wrote:
> On 2004-11-21, Stephen Mulholland > wrote:
>
>>"Jogenn Blake" > wrote in message
om...
>>
>>>I am a newbie.
>>>I have modelled my training on Stuart McRobert's book "Beyond Brawn"
>>>
>>>My bodyweight is now 156lbs
>>>
>>>I am doing chins with bodyweight plus 16.5lbs for 5 reps
>>>1 arm dumbell rows with 90.5lbs each hand for 5 reps
>>>
>>>I now want to switch to the barbell bent over row to substitute for
>>>the 1 arm dumbell rows because it is hard to get a full range of
>>>motion with the dumbell row. Also I just like the feel of the barbell
>>>move better.
>>>
>>>Questions:
>>>
>>>1) Stuart McRobert says barbell rows are liable to cause injury. Is
>>>this true? Why? The movement actually feels really good and natural to
>>>me. I love it.
>>>2) Given the above weights I am lifting on the 1 arm row, what would
>>>be a good starting weight on the barbell bent over row?
>>>3) Stuart McRobert says that for a target weight to aim for on the 1
>>>arm row to have 16 inch arms would be 110 for 6 reps.
>>
>>
>>Waddaloada****e. Currently, I'm doing pullups +20 lb for 3 sets of five, DB
>>rows at 100 lb for 3 X 5, weigh 190-ish lbs, and have 14.5 inch arms on a
>>good day. There's just no sense to his statement.
>>
>>Stephen
>
>
> With my clothes, boots and pocket litter I weigh 200lbs.
> I do weighted pullups for 3 sets of 5 with 80lbs on a belt.
>
> I've never measured my arms before. Sitting here with a big flex, I
> only seem to get 14 inches.
>

Just to keep harping on a pet topic of mine: do you touch the pullup bar
to your upper chest/clavicles or do you pull until your chin is over the
bar and that's far enough?

--
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neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. To jump to the end
of the story, as a result of this I need a bone marrow transplant. Many
people around the world are waiting for a marrow transplant, too. Please
volunteer to be a marrow donor:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/

aj
November 22nd 04, 07:42 PM
["Followup-To:" header set to misc.fitness.weights.]
On 2004-11-22, spodosaurus > wrote:
> aj wrote:
>> On 2004-11-21, Stephen Mulholland > wrote:
>>
>>>"Jogenn Blake" > wrote in message
om...
>>>
>>>>I am a newbie.
>>>>I have modelled my training on Stuart McRobert's book "Beyond Brawn"
>>>>
>>>>My bodyweight is now 156lbs
>>>>
>>>>I am doing chins with bodyweight plus 16.5lbs for 5 reps
>>>>1 arm dumbell rows with 90.5lbs each hand for 5 reps
>>>>
>>>>I now want to switch to the barbell bent over row to substitute for
>>>>the 1 arm dumbell rows because it is hard to get a full range of
>>>>motion with the dumbell row. Also I just like the feel of the barbell
>>>>move better.
>>>>
>>>>Questions:
>>>>
>>>>1) Stuart McRobert says barbell rows are liable to cause injury. Is
>>>>this true? Why? The movement actually feels really good and natural to
>>>>me. I love it.
>>>>2) Given the above weights I am lifting on the 1 arm row, what would
>>>>be a good starting weight on the barbell bent over row?
>>>>3) Stuart McRobert says that for a target weight to aim for on the 1
>>>>arm row to have 16 inch arms would be 110 for 6 reps.
>>>
>>>
>>>Waddaloada****e. Currently, I'm doing pullups +20 lb for 3 sets of five, DB
>>>rows at 100 lb for 3 X 5, weigh 190-ish lbs, and have 14.5 inch arms on a
>>>good day. There's just no sense to his statement.
>>>
>>>Stephen
>>
>>
>> With my clothes, boots and pocket litter I weigh 200lbs.
>> I do weighted pullups for 3 sets of 5 with 80lbs on a belt.
>>
>> I've never measured my arms before. Sitting here with a big flex, I
>> only seem to get 14 inches.
>>
>
> Just to keep harping on a pet topic of mine: do you touch the pullup bar
> to your upper chest/clavicles or do you pull until your chin is over the
> bar and that's far enough?

You know, I just sort of hang there like a dead fish and then shrug the
lats upwards an inch, not bending the elbow but releasing a mighty roar.
After that I tend to kick fitfully while stretching my neck in the
direction of the bar like I'm pointing to where I want to go with my
chin. I swing back and forth a few times until my grip fails and I drop
to the cement and beg someone to take the weight off the belt for me.


I touch my upper chest to the bar.
--
-aj

fj
November 22nd 04, 10:28 PM
> Just to keep harping on a pet topic of mine: do you touch the pullup bar
> to your upper chest/clavicles or do you pull until your chin is over the
> bar and that's far enough?
>

So what's the difference? I stop pulling once my chin is up over the bar.

-fj

aj
November 22nd 04, 10:57 PM
On 2004-11-22, fj > wrote:
>
>> Just to keep harping on a pet topic of mine: do you touch the pullup bar
>> to your upper chest/clavicles or do you pull until your chin is over the
>> bar and that's far enough?
>>
>
> So what's the difference? I stop pulling once my chin is up over the bar.
>
> -fj

1) There's a little more work done with the small muscles of the back
when you increase the ROM. This last little bit relies less on the lats.
Consequently it tends to be more difficult. I think I rely on upward
momentum to assist with this last little bit, though I do pause at the
top for a second.

2) Looks way more butch.

--
-aj