PDA

View Full Version : Deadlift PB = Back injury


Brian Link
November 27th 04, 05:15 AM
Not very impressive, but I managed 300lbs in a trap-bar deadlift the
other day.

On the way up, I noticed I was a bit too far forward, and so jerked up
with my back to bring my center of gravity back. I then felt a
disturbing "crunch" in my lower back. Sort of like the sensation of
cracking your knuckles. Not knowing what to do, I decided to finish
the lift, which I did, and then dropped the weights.

At the time I didn't feel any pain, but rather a definite "this feels
wrong, somehow" in my lower back.

I went to bed that night, and when I woke up was unable to figure out
how to get out of bed.

After sitting on my couch weeping, I decided I should see the doctor,
who prescribed some Vicodin for me.

All I have to say is that I figure I'm lucky not to have injured
myself earlier - and I can really understand why "lower-back health"
is such a lucrative business. The pain is pretty overwhelming, prolly
comparable only to childbirth or kidney stones.

The Vicodin takes the edge off, but there's no doubt that some little
ligament back there is angry enough to continue to wreck my sleeping
and waking.

Hopefully it'll get better. =/

BLink

David Cohen
November 27th 04, 06:02 AM
"Brian Link" > wrote
> Not very impressive, but I managed 300lbs in a trap-bar deadlift the
> other day.
>
> On the way up, I noticed I was a bit too far forward, and so jerked up
> with my back to bring my center of gravity back. I then felt a
> disturbing "crunch" in my lower back. Sort of like the sensation of
> cracking your knuckles. Not knowing what to do, I decided to finish
> the lift, which I did, and then dropped the weights.
>
> At the time I didn't feel any pain, but rather a definite "this feels
> wrong, somehow" in my lower back.
>
> I went to bed that night, and when I woke up was unable to figure out
> how to get out of bed.
>
> After sitting on my couch weeping, I decided I should see the doctor,
> who prescribed some Vicodin for me.
>
> All I have to say is that I figure I'm lucky not to have injured
> myself earlier - and I can really understand why "lower-back health"
> is such a lucrative business. The pain is pretty overwhelming, prolly
> comparable only to childbirth or kidney stones.
>
> The Vicodin takes the edge off, but there's no doubt that some little
> ligament back there is angry enough to continue to wreck my sleeping
> and waking.
>
> Hopefully it'll get better. =/

1) If that's all the doctor did for you, fire his incompetant ass and get a
better one.

2) You have a spinal compression injury, likely the L5-S1 lumbar-sacral
joint. If the pain seems more one-sided and radiates down the rear of one
leg, it could be a sacro-iliac joint. Either way, covering up the pain is
nice, but, doesn't solve the problem. Actually, it is not a solvable
problem...once you've done this, you will always be more prone to the same
injury. You need some physical therapy...find a good PT and have him (her)
show you the way. Also, inversion therapy is extremely helpful here. It has
virtually eliminated my long time LS and SI joint compression problems.

If this advice proves useful, you must vote Republican from now on, as
payment.

David

John M. Williams
November 27th 04, 07:37 AM
"David Cohen" > wrote:
>"Brian Link" > wrote:
>> Not very impressive, but I managed 300lbs in a trap-bar deadlift the
>> other day.
>>
>> On the way up, I noticed I was a bit too far forward, and so jerked up
>> with my back to bring my center of gravity back. I then felt a
>> disturbing "crunch" in my lower back. Sort of like the sensation of
>> cracking your knuckles. Not knowing what to do, I decided to finish
>> the lift, which I did, and then dropped the weights.
>>
>> At the time I didn't feel any pain, but rather a definite "this feels
>> wrong, somehow" in my lower back.
>>
>> I went to bed that night, and when I woke up was unable to figure out
>> how to get out of bed.
>>
>> After sitting on my couch weeping, I decided I should see the doctor,
>> who prescribed some Vicodin for me.
>>
>> All I have to say is that I figure I'm lucky not to have injured
>> myself earlier - and I can really understand why "lower-back health"
>> is such a lucrative business. The pain is pretty overwhelming, prolly
>> comparable only to childbirth or kidney stones.
>>
>> The Vicodin takes the edge off, but there's no doubt that some little
>> ligament back there is angry enough to continue to wreck my sleeping
>> and waking.
>>
>> Hopefully it'll get better. =/
>
>1) If that's all the doctor did for you, fire his incompetant ass and get a
>better one.
>
>2) You have a spinal compression injury, likely the L5-S1 lumbar-sacral
>joint. If the pain seems more one-sided and radiates down the rear of one
>leg, it could be a sacro-iliac joint. Either way, covering up the pain is
>nice, but, doesn't solve the problem. Actually, it is not a solvable
>problem...once you've done this, you will always be more prone to the same
>injury. You need some physical therapy...find a good PT and have him (her)
>show you the way. Also, inversion therapy is extremely helpful here. It has
>virtually eliminated my long time LS and SI joint compression problems.
>
>If this advice proves useful, you must vote Republican from now on, as
>payment.

Actually, this was G*d punishing him for voting Democrat.

What he doesn't yet realize is that, from now on, G*d will remind him
each and every time he tries to crane something with his back ... even
light stuff.

Big Bill
November 27th 04, 09:44 AM
On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 06:02:26 GMT, "David Cohen"
> wrote:

>
>"Brian Link" > wrote
>> Not very impressive, but I managed 300lbs in a trap-bar deadlift the
>> other day.
>>
>> On the way up, I noticed I was a bit too far forward, and so jerked up
>> with my back to bring my center of gravity back. I then felt a
>> disturbing "crunch" in my lower back. Sort of like the sensation of
>> cracking your knuckles. Not knowing what to do, I decided to finish
>> the lift, which I did, and then dropped the weights.
>>
>> At the time I didn't feel any pain, but rather a definite "this feels
>> wrong, somehow" in my lower back.
>>
>> I went to bed that night, and when I woke up was unable to figure out
>> how to get out of bed.
>>
>> After sitting on my couch weeping, I decided I should see the doctor,
>> who prescribed some Vicodin for me.
>>
>> All I have to say is that I figure I'm lucky not to have injured
>> myself earlier - and I can really understand why "lower-back health"
>> is such a lucrative business. The pain is pretty overwhelming, prolly
>> comparable only to childbirth or kidney stones.
>>
>> The Vicodin takes the edge off, but there's no doubt that some little
>> ligament back there is angry enough to continue to wreck my sleeping
>> and waking.
>>
>> Hopefully it'll get better. =/
>
>1) If that's all the doctor did for you, fire his incompetant ass and get a
>better one.
>
>2) You have a spinal compression injury, likely the L5-S1 lumbar-sacral
>joint. If the pain seems more one-sided and radiates down the rear of one
>leg, it could be a sacro-iliac joint. Either way, covering up the pain is
>nice, but, doesn't solve the problem. Actually, it is not a solvable
>problem...once you've done this, you will always be more prone to the same
>injury. You need some physical therapy...find a good PT and have him (her)
>show you the way. Also, inversion therapy is extremely helpful here.

Little bit soon I'd say. I'd imagine you still have a lot of
inflammation which will have the effect of restricting movement. Later
on, yes.

BB

--
www.kruse.co.uk
home of SEO that's shiny!
--

Dally
November 27th 04, 02:11 PM
David Cohen wrote:

> If this advice proves useful, you must vote Republican from now on, as
> payment.

Isn't it enough that you already have most of the country already in
your debt? (Best explanation I've heard, actually, for the inconceivable
outcome of that election.)

But, heh, your advice does sound worth it. Thanks for weighing in.

I tend to think of PB as "the weight I can lift but it's gunna hurt." I
think Brian illustrated that nicely. :-(

Dally

Paul Cassel
November 27th 04, 03:14 PM
Brian Link wrote:

>
> After sitting on my couch weeping, I decided I should see the doctor,
> who prescribed some Vicodin for me.
>

What did the doc diagnose as your injury? He didn't just keep his pie
hole shut and vend you some narcotics - did he?

-paul

Steve Freides
November 27th 04, 03:34 PM
"Brian Link" > wrote in message
...
> Not very impressive, but I managed 300lbs in a trap-bar deadlift the
> other day.
>
> On the way up, I noticed I was a bit too far forward, and so jerked up
> with my back to bring my center of gravity back. I then felt a
> disturbing "crunch" in my lower back. Sort of like the sensation of
> cracking your knuckles. Not knowing what to do, I decided to finish
> the lift, which I did, and then dropped the weights.
>
> At the time I didn't feel any pain, but rather a definite "this feels
> wrong, somehow" in my lower back.
>
> I went to bed that night, and when I woke up was unable to figure out
> how to get out of bed.
>
> After sitting on my couch weeping, I decided I should see the doctor,
> who prescribed some Vicodin for me.
>
> All I have to say is that I figure I'm lucky not to have injured
> myself earlier - and I can really understand why "lower-back health"
> is such a lucrative business. The pain is pretty overwhelming, prolly
> comparable only to childbirth or kidney stones.
>
> The Vicodin takes the edge off, but there's no doubt that some little
> ligament back there is angry enough to continue to wreck my sleeping
> and waking.
>
> Hopefully it'll get better. =/

David's right - you need to think about a better doctor. In the
meantime, and in the "my experience, for what it's worth to you"
department, here's my recent, very similar experience.

Tuesday I deadlifted a new PR, 350 lbs at a bodyweight of 153 (regular
bar, conventional style). It felt so freaking easy, and my workout
numbers have indicated I should have a 1RM of 365-380, so I waited a few
minutes and did it again, all while worrying about being late to pick up
my 7 year old from school. On the second rep of 350, which I, too,
completed, I heard the same sort of crunch you describe, and by later in
the day on Tuesday I had to get someone to untie my shoes because I
could not longer reach them. It hurt like hell, and I gave serious
thought to finding the bottom of Percoset I have around here from when I
hurt my back badly the first time. But I am older and, if not wiser, at
least a little more knowledgeable and a lot more experienced, and by
yesterday, Friday, I deadlifted 225 for 4 reps like it was a match
stick, and I'll probably do a few lifts in the 250-300 lb. range today.
Again, you and everyone else please be aware that I am describing *my*
experience and that I'm not a doctor, just a guy with a bad back who's
been through this a few times already. If you try what I tried, you do
so at your own risk, your mileage may vary, blah, blah, etc.

For me, three guidelines to recovering from a back injury: 1) Aleve
around the clock at maximal dosage or even a little over what the
package recommends; 2) remain as active as possible and, when not
active, apply heat to the effected area; 3) push the range of motion as
far as it will go, enduring some pain to make this happen, but staying
away from the scream-out-loud type of pain that means you've reinjured
it by going too far - this last one is a judgment call on every thing
you do and just takes experience and a bit of luck to get right.

Tuesday, after the back tweak, I ran - I jogged a little to pick up my
son at school, I jogged a little on the way back, and I ran on the
treadmill for 10 minutes when I got home. Running really gets the blood
flowing. Posture must be good but, if it doesn't hurt and I can still
do it, then I do it. I took a total of 4 Aleve that day. I also did 3
easy kettlebell swings with each hand - painful but just enough. That
night I used a heating pad on the sofa in the evening and I slept with
it all night, too.

Wednesday, day #2, I started pushing the range of motion through the
windmill (see http://www.kbnj.com/windmill.htm and click the video link
if you like for a demonstration). My pain felt centered in my right hip
but I found it interesting that I could do the windmill bending my right
hip just fine, it was bending my left hip that caused my right hip and
lower back pain. Still, I did as much as I could, which wasn't much to
start with but I made some progress during the session. I also
military pressed a light kettlebell for a few reps - I definitely felt
weak and beaten up but, if I can do it, I do it because that's what
speeds recovery, I've found. Later in the day, I swam about 500 yards.
4 Aleve again this day. Skipped the swings - they felt like they might
have been too much yesterday and I didn't want to chance that. Most
forward bending was out, shoe tying was now possible but very slow and
painful.

Thursday, I was able to get down to 3 Aleve for the day, which is the
maximum recommended package dose, and I was able to press a medium
weight kettlebell. I also took a very light kettlebell and did a set of
20 swings each arm - felt great, and I followed that by some running
with my kids while we were at the grandparents' house - nothing very
arduous but a mile or so of running with several walking breaks thrown
in and also several short sprints.

Fridays, I squatted 135 lbs. and deadlifted 225, each for 4-5 reps, and
did kettlebell snatches with 24 kg, sets of 12, 18, and 24 on long
rests. The kb snatches hurt some, but the SQ and DL just felt a little
weird in my back but nothing I'd call outright pain. My windmills are
now almost back to normal range of motion. The fact that I felt the
pain in my right hip but could also bend my right hip freely but not my
left tells you something about how you can almost never be sure where
you've hurt yourself in your back - much back pain is referential and
often muscles tighten up and cramp in response to an injury and you
initially feel that and not the actual injury itself. Only 2 Aleve.

Today, Saturday, I'll try for beginning-of-cycle kinds of weights. I
was a total mess 5 days ago, I too felt like crying, but taking pain
killers, muscle relaxers, and the like just doesn't cut it for me and I
don't think you like it, either. Get back on the horse and do some
exercise but just don't be stupid and overdo it - that's my advice. Not
everyone and not every injury will respond well to the level of activity
I've described, but if doing something to get the blood flowing makes
you feel better and not worse, then you know what you've got to do.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

Keith Hobman
November 27th 04, 05:48 PM
In article >, Usenet Posting
> wrote:

> On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 10:34:21 -0500, "Steve Freides"
> > wrote:
>
> >"Brian Link" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> Not very impressive, but I managed 300lbs in a trap-bar deadlift the
> >> other day.
> >>
> >> On the way up, I noticed I was a bit too far forward, and so jerked up
> >> with my back to bring my center of gravity back. I then felt a
> >> disturbing "crunch" in my lower back. Sort of like the sensation of
> >> cracking your knuckles. Not knowing what to do, I decided to finish
> >> the lift, which I did, and then dropped the weights.
> >>
> >> At the time I didn't feel any pain, but rather a definite "this feels
> >> wrong, somehow" in my lower back.
> >>
> >> I went to bed that night, and when I woke up was unable to figure out
> >> how to get out of bed.
> >>
> >> After sitting on my couch weeping, I decided I should see the doctor,
> >> who prescribed some Vicodin for me.
> >>
> >> All I have to say is that I figure I'm lucky not to have injured
> >> myself earlier - and I can really understand why "lower-back health"
> >> is such a lucrative business. The pain is pretty overwhelming, prolly
> >> comparable only to childbirth or kidney stones.
> >>
> >> The Vicodin takes the edge off, but there's no doubt that some little
> >> ligament back there is angry enough to continue to wreck my sleeping
> >> and waking.
> >>
> >> Hopefully it'll get better. =/
> >
> >David's right - you need to think about a better doctor. In the
> >meantime, and in the "my experience, for what it's worth to you"
> >department, here's my recent, very similar experience.
> >
> >Tuesday I deadlifted a new PR, 350 lbs at a bodyweight of 153 (regular
>
> Since I'm me I also have to say I think this just foolish. There is
> really no reason for people who are not earning a living off
> powerlifting to risk their health in such reckless ways. This is
> especially true if you start to find your recreational lifting
> adventures to be more a series of injuries than enjoyment. I know MFW
> is supposed to be the "echo chamber" for this idiotic behavior but I,
> as usual, am not afraid to be the voice of dissent.

Mike doesn't like challenges.

:^)

Steve Freides
November 27th 04, 06:22 PM
"Usenet Posting" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 10:34:21 -0500, "Steve Freides"
> > wrote:
>
>>"Brian Link" > wrote in message
...
>>> Not very impressive, but I managed 300lbs in a trap-bar deadlift the
>>> other day.
>>>
>>> On the way up, I noticed I was a bit too far forward, and so jerked
>>> up
>>> with my back to bring my center of gravity back. I then felt a
>>> disturbing "crunch" in my lower back. Sort of like the sensation of
>>> cracking your knuckles. Not knowing what to do, I decided to finish
>>> the lift, which I did, and then dropped the weights.
>>>
>>> At the time I didn't feel any pain, but rather a definite "this
>>> feels
>>> wrong, somehow" in my lower back.
>>>
>>> I went to bed that night, and when I woke up was unable to figure
>>> out
>>> how to get out of bed.
>>>
>>> After sitting on my couch weeping, I decided I should see the
>>> doctor,
>>> who prescribed some Vicodin for me.
>>>
>>> All I have to say is that I figure I'm lucky not to have injured
>>> myself earlier - and I can really understand why "lower-back health"
>>> is such a lucrative business. The pain is pretty overwhelming,
>>> prolly
>>> comparable only to childbirth or kidney stones.
>>>
>>> The Vicodin takes the edge off, but there's no doubt that some
>>> little
>>> ligament back there is angry enough to continue to wreck my sleeping
>>> and waking.
>>>
>>> Hopefully it'll get better. =/
>>
>>David's right - you need to think about a better doctor. In the
>>meantime, and in the "my experience, for what it's worth to you"
>>department, here's my recent, very similar experience.
>>
>>Tuesday I deadlifted a new PR, 350 lbs at a bodyweight of 153 (regular
>
> Since I'm me I also have to say I think this just foolish. There is
> really no reason for people who are not earning a living off
> powerlifting to risk their health in such reckless ways. This is
> especially true if you start to find your recreational lifting
> adventures to be more a series of injuries than enjoyment. I know MFW
> is supposed to be the "echo chamber" for this idiotic behavior but I,
> as usual, am not afraid to be the voice of dissent.

If you think training limit strength is risky, you're a fool. In my not
very humble opinion, it's the missing ingredient in most fitness
programs, and it's the main reason why my back works better than most
people's after having a very severe injury to it 7 years ago. It's been
a bumpy road, and I'll grant you I've suffered more minor injuries than
I might have if I'd kept the weights lower and the reps higher, but I
firmly believe that I have decreased my risk of major back injury by
training, and regularly testing, my limit strength.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

>
> --
> The pain is pretty overwhelming, prolly
> comparable only to childbirth or kidney stones.
> --Brian L.

Steve Freides
November 27th 04, 06:33 PM
"Usenet Posting" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 10:34:21 -0500, "Steve Freides"
> > wrote:
>
>>"Brian Link" > wrote in message
...
>>> Not very impressive, but I managed 300lbs in a trap-bar deadlift the
>>> other day.
>>>
>>> On the way up, I noticed I was a bit too far forward, and so jerked
>>> up
>>> with my back to bring my center of gravity back. I then felt a
>>> disturbing "crunch" in my lower back. Sort of like the sensation of
>>> cracking your knuckles. Not knowing what to do, I decided to finish
>>> the lift, which I did, and then dropped the weights.
>>>
>>> At the time I didn't feel any pain, but rather a definite "this
>>> feels
>>> wrong, somehow" in my lower back.
>>>
>>> I went to bed that night, and when I woke up was unable to figure
>>> out
>>> how to get out of bed.
>>>
>>> After sitting on my couch weeping, I decided I should see the
>>> doctor,
>>> who prescribed some Vicodin for me.
>>>
>>> All I have to say is that I figure I'm lucky not to have injured
>>> myself earlier - and I can really understand why "lower-back health"
>>> is such a lucrative business. The pain is pretty overwhelming,
>>> prolly
>>> comparable only to childbirth or kidney stones.
>>>
>>> The Vicodin takes the edge off, but there's no doubt that some
>>> little
>>> ligament back there is angry enough to continue to wreck my sleeping
>>> and waking.
>>>
>>> Hopefully it'll get better. =/
>>
>>David's right - you need to think about a better doctor. In the
>>meantime, and in the "my experience, for what it's worth to you"
>>department, here's my recent, very similar experience.
>>
>>Tuesday I deadlifted a new PR, 350 lbs at a bodyweight of 153 (regular
>
> Since I'm me I also have to say I think this just foolish. There is
> really no reason for people who are not earning a living off
> powerlifting to risk their health in such reckless ways. This is
> especially true if you start to find your recreational lifting
> adventures to be more a series of injuries than enjoyment. I know MFW
> is supposed to be the "echo chamber" for this idiotic behavior but I,
> as usual, am not afraid to be the voice of dissent.

And one more thing - when I'm lifting 3x bodyweight, you can call that
heavy, and when it gets up to 600 lbs., you can call that good. Anyone
who thinks pulling 350 @ 150 is some sort of stress test has set their
goals _way_ too low. I'm lousy at this and I've learned to do it in a
few years time after not starting until I was 45 years old. 350 @ 150
is just a decent lift, nothing more.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com


>
> --
> The pain is pretty overwhelming, prolly
> comparable only to childbirth or kidney stones.
> --Brian L.

Keith Hobman
November 27th 04, 06:45 PM
In article >, "Steve Freides"
> wrote:

> "Usenet Posting" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 10:34:21 -0500, "Steve Freides"
> > > wrote:
> >
> >>"Brian Link" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>> Not very impressive, but I managed 300lbs in a trap-bar deadlift the
> >>> other day.
> >>>
> >>> On the way up, I noticed I was a bit too far forward, and so jerked
> >>> up
> >>> with my back to bring my center of gravity back. I then felt a
> >>> disturbing "crunch" in my lower back. Sort of like the sensation of
> >>> cracking your knuckles. Not knowing what to do, I decided to finish
> >>> the lift, which I did, and then dropped the weights.
> >>>
> >>> At the time I didn't feel any pain, but rather a definite "this
> >>> feels
> >>> wrong, somehow" in my lower back.
> >>>
> >>> I went to bed that night, and when I woke up was unable to figure
> >>> out
> >>> how to get out of bed.
> >>>
> >>> After sitting on my couch weeping, I decided I should see the
> >>> doctor,
> >>> who prescribed some Vicodin for me.
> >>>
> >>> All I have to say is that I figure I'm lucky not to have injured
> >>> myself earlier - and I can really understand why "lower-back health"
> >>> is such a lucrative business. The pain is pretty overwhelming,
> >>> prolly
> >>> comparable only to childbirth or kidney stones.
> >>>
> >>> The Vicodin takes the edge off, but there's no doubt that some
> >>> little
> >>> ligament back there is angry enough to continue to wreck my sleeping
> >>> and waking.
> >>>
> >>> Hopefully it'll get better. =/
> >>
> >>David's right - you need to think about a better doctor. In the
> >>meantime, and in the "my experience, for what it's worth to you"
> >>department, here's my recent, very similar experience.
> >>
> >>Tuesday I deadlifted a new PR, 350 lbs at a bodyweight of 153 (regular
> >
> > Since I'm me I also have to say I think this just foolish. There is
> > really no reason for people who are not earning a living off
> > powerlifting to risk their health in such reckless ways. This is
> > especially true if you start to find your recreational lifting
> > adventures to be more a series of injuries than enjoyment. I know MFW
> > is supposed to be the "echo chamber" for this idiotic behavior but I,
> > as usual, am not afraid to be the voice of dissent.
>
> If you think training limit strength is risky, you're a fool. In my not
> very humble opinion, it's the missing ingredient in most fitness
> programs, and it's the main reason why my back works better than most
> people's after having a very severe injury to it 7 years ago. It's been
> a bumpy road, and I'll grant you I've suffered more minor injuries than
> I might have if I'd kept the weights lower and the reps higher, but I
> firmly believe that I have decreased my risk of major back injury by
> training, and regularly testing, my limit strength.

From

http://www.coachesinfo.com/category/strength_and_conditioning/242/

Injury Potential of Resistance Training

It is well known that the injury potential of weight training is low
compared to other recreational (Powell et al 1998) and sports activities
(Hamill 1994). Although it is commonly believed that free weights produce
a higher injury rate then machines there is no evidence for this belief
(Requa et al. 1993). This last statement is particularly important to
understand because free weights can produce a superior transfer of
training effect, especially for explosive strength compared to machines
(Stone et al 2001).

It is also commonly believed that weightlifting and other ballistic
explosive exercises produce high rates of injury. Again there is little
data to support this idea. Hamill (1994) studied the injury rates of
several different sports in the United Kingdom and in the United States.
Based on injury rates per 100 participation hours both general weight
training and weightlifting training produced injury rates that were among
the lowest of the sports studied. Thus, there is little evidence that
weight training, including explosive weight training, produces excessive
injuries (Table 7).
Table 7: .Injury Rates Among Sports: Hamill 1994

Sport Injuries per 100 participation hours

Schoolchild soccer 6.20
UK Rugby 1.92
USA Backetball 0.03
UK Cross-country 0.37
Squash 0.10
USA football 0.10
Badminton 0.05
USA Gymnastics 0.044
USA Powerlifting 0.0027
USA Tennis 0.001
USA Volleyball 0.0013
Weight training 0.0035
Weightlifting 0.0017

John Hanson
November 27th 04, 07:09 PM
On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 17:41:28 GMT, Usenet Posting
> wrote in misc.fitness.weights:

>On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 10:34:21 -0500, "Steve Freides"
> wrote:
>
>>"Brian Link" > wrote in message
...
>>> Not very impressive, but I managed 300lbs in a trap-bar deadlift the
>>> other day.
>>>
>>> On the way up, I noticed I was a bit too far forward, and so jerked up
>>> with my back to bring my center of gravity back. I then felt a
>>> disturbing "crunch" in my lower back. Sort of like the sensation of
>>> cracking your knuckles. Not knowing what to do, I decided to finish
>>> the lift, which I did, and then dropped the weights.
>>>
>>> At the time I didn't feel any pain, but rather a definite "this feels
>>> wrong, somehow" in my lower back.
>>>
>>> I went to bed that night, and when I woke up was unable to figure out
>>> how to get out of bed.
>>>
>>> After sitting on my couch weeping, I decided I should see the doctor,
>>> who prescribed some Vicodin for me.
>>>
>>> All I have to say is that I figure I'm lucky not to have injured
>>> myself earlier - and I can really understand why "lower-back health"
>>> is such a lucrative business. The pain is pretty overwhelming, prolly
>>> comparable only to childbirth or kidney stones.
>>>
>>> The Vicodin takes the edge off, but there's no doubt that some little
>>> ligament back there is angry enough to continue to wreck my sleeping
>>> and waking.
>>>
>>> Hopefully it'll get better. =/
>>
>>David's right - you need to think about a better doctor. In the
>>meantime, and in the "my experience, for what it's worth to you"
>>department, here's my recent, very similar experience.
>>
>>Tuesday I deadlifted a new PR, 350 lbs at a bodyweight of 153 (regular
>
>Since I'm me I also have to say I think this just foolish. There is
>really no reason for people who are not earning a living off
>powerlifting to risk their health in such reckless ways. This is
>especially true if you start to find your recreational lifting
>adventures to be more a series of injuries than enjoyment. I know MFW
>is supposed to be the "echo chamber" for this idiotic behavior but I,
>as usual, am not afraid to be the voice of dissent.

The 523.5 pound squat I did at my last meet seemed to actually crunch
my back into place. At least it moved the pain into my spine and then
that went away after a couple of days. I find heavy lifting keeps my
muscular-skeletal system healthier.

Paul Cassel
November 27th 04, 07:28 PM
Usenet Posting wrote:
>
>
> Since I'm me I also have to say I think this just foolish. There is
> really no reason for people who are not earning a living off
> powerlifting to risk their health in such reckless ways. This is
> especially true if you start to find your recreational lifting
> adventures to be more a series of injuries than enjoyment. I know MFW
> is supposed to be the "echo chamber" for this idiotic behavior but I,
> as usual, am not afraid to be the voice of dissent.
>

Bull**** and what a weak kneed nancy boy you must be. There is more
reason to push if nobody is watching because you are always watching.
The best competition is against yourself to always be better than you were.

-paul

Blair P. Houghton
November 27th 04, 08:41 PM
Keith Hobman > wrote:
>Table 7: .Injury Rates Among Sports: Hamill 1994
>
>Sport Injuries per 100 participation hours
>
>Schoolchild soccer 6.20
>UK Rugby 1.92
>USA Backetball 0.03
>UK Cross-country 0.37
>Squash 0.10
>USA football 0.10
>Badminton 0.05
>USA Gymnastics 0.044
>USA Powerlifting 0.0027
>USA Tennis 0.001
>USA Volleyball 0.0013
>Weight training 0.0035
>Weightlifting 0.0017


Add powerlifting, weight training, and weightlifting together
(because they're all the same thing) and you get:

Sport Injuries per 100 participation hours

Schoolchild soccer 6.20
UK Rugby 1.92
USA Backetball 0.03
UK Cross-country 0.37
Squash 0.10
USA football 0.10
Badminton 0.05
USA Gymnastics 0.044
Weight lifting 0.0079 *
USA Tennis 0.001
USA Volleyball 0.0013

I.e., "7 times as dangerous" as either Tennis or Volleyball.

And I don't know what "Backetball" is, but it's out of place, too...

--Blair
"What's the injury rate for
hitting on chicks in bars?"

John M. Williams
November 27th 04, 08:53 PM
(Keith Hobman) wrote:
>
> Usenet Posting > wrote:
>>
>> "Steve Freides" > wrote:
>> >
>> >"Brian Link" > wrote:
>> >> Not very impressive, but I managed 300lbs in a trap-bar deadlift the
>> >> other day.
>> >>
>> >> On the way up, I noticed I was a bit too far forward, and so jerked up
>> >> with my back to bring my center of gravity back. I then felt a
>> >> disturbing "crunch" in my lower back. Sort of like the sensation of
>> >> cracking your knuckles. Not knowing what to do, I decided to finish
>> >> the lift, which I did, and then dropped the weights.
>> >>
>> >> At the time I didn't feel any pain, but rather a definite "this feels
>> >> wrong, somehow" in my lower back.
>> >>
>> >> I went to bed that night, and when I woke up was unable to figure out
>> >> how to get out of bed.
>> >>
>> >> After sitting on my couch weeping, I decided I should see the doctor,
>> >> who prescribed some Vicodin for me.
>> >>
>> >> All I have to say is that I figure I'm lucky not to have injured
>> >> myself earlier - and I can really understand why "lower-back health"
>> >> is such a lucrative business. The pain is pretty overwhelming, prolly
>> >> comparable only to childbirth or kidney stones.
>> >>
>> >> The Vicodin takes the edge off, but there's no doubt that some little
>> >> ligament back there is angry enough to continue to wreck my sleeping
>> >> and waking.
>> >>
>> >> Hopefully it'll get better. =/
>> >
>> >David's right - you need to think about a better doctor. In the
>> >meantime, and in the "my experience, for what it's worth to you"
>> >department, here's my recent, very similar experience.
>> >
>> >Tuesday I deadlifted a new PR, 350 lbs at a bodyweight of 153 (regular
>>
>> Since I'm me I also have to say I think this just foolish. There is
>> really no reason for people who are not earning a living off
>> powerlifting to risk their health in such reckless ways. This is
>> especially true if you start to find your recreational lifting
>> adventures to be more a series of injuries than enjoyment. I know MFW
>> is supposed to be the "echo chamber" for this idiotic behavior but I,
>> as usual, am not afraid to be the voice of dissent.
>
>Mike doesn't like challenges.

Mike prefers low-risk activities ... like injecting trenbelone acetate
that's been cooked out of cattle pellets.

Mick R.
November 27th 04, 08:53 PM
"Blair P. Houghton" > wrote in message
...
> Keith Hobman > wrote:
> >Table 7: .Injury Rates Among Sports: Hamill 1994
> >
> >Sport Injuries per 100 participation hours
> >
> >Schoolchild soccer 6.20
> >UK Rugby 1.92
> >USA Backetball 0.03
> >UK Cross-country 0.37
> >Squash 0.10
> >USA football 0.10
> >Badminton 0.05
> >USA Gymnastics 0.044
> >USA Powerlifting 0.0027
> >USA Tennis 0.001
> >USA Volleyball 0.0013
> >Weight training 0.0035
> >Weightlifting 0.0017
>
>
> Add powerlifting, weight training, and weightlifting together
> (because they're all the same thing) and you get:
>
> Sport Injuries per 100 participation hours
>
> Schoolchild soccer 6.20
> UK Rugby 1.92
> USA Backetball 0.03
> UK Cross-country 0.37
> Squash 0.10
> USA football 0.10
> Badminton 0.05
> USA Gymnastics 0.044
> Weight lifting 0.0079 *
> USA Tennis 0.001
> USA Volleyball 0.0013
>
> I.e., "7 times as dangerous" as either Tennis or Volleyball.
>
Only 7 times?

I'll take those odds.
Badminton is still more dangerous.

> And I don't know what "Backetball" is, but it's out of place, too...
>
> --Blair
> "What's the injury rate for
> hitting on chicks in bars?"

John Hanson
November 27th 04, 09:03 PM
On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 20:41:31 GMT, Blair P. Houghton > wrote in
misc.fitness.weights:

>Keith Hobman > wrote:
>>Table 7: .Injury Rates Among Sports: Hamill 1994
>>
>>Sport Injuries per 100 participation hours
>>
>>Schoolchild soccer 6.20
>>UK Rugby 1.92
>>USA Backetball 0.03
>>UK Cross-country 0.37
>>Squash 0.10
>>USA football 0.10
>>Badminton 0.05
>>USA Gymnastics 0.044
>>USA Powerlifting 0.0027
>>USA Tennis 0.001
>>USA Volleyball 0.0013
>>Weight training 0.0035
>>Weightlifting 0.0017
>
>
>Add powerlifting, weight training, and weightlifting together
>(because they're all the same thing) and you get:
>
>Sport Injuries per 100 participation hours
>
>Schoolchild soccer 6.20
>UK Rugby 1.92
>USA Backetball 0.03
>UK Cross-country 0.37
>Squash 0.10
>USA football 0.10
>Badminton 0.05
>USA Gymnastics 0.044
>Weight lifting 0.0079 *
>USA Tennis 0.001
>USA Volleyball 0.0013
>
>I.e., "7 times as dangerous" as either Tennis or Volleyball.

No! It would be 0.0029/100 participation hours.

Keith Hobman
November 27th 04, 09:20 PM
In article >, Blair P. Houghton
> wrote:

> Keith Hobman > wrote:
> >Table 7: .Injury Rates Among Sports: Hamill 1994
> >
> >Sport Injuries per 100 participation hours
> >
> >Schoolchild soccer 6.20
> >UK Rugby 1.92
> >USA Backetball 0.03
> >UK Cross-country 0.37
> >Squash 0.10
> >USA football 0.10
> >Badminton 0.05
> >USA Gymnastics 0.044
> >USA Powerlifting 0.0027
> >USA Tennis 0.001
> >USA Volleyball 0.0013
> >Weight training 0.0035
> >Weightlifting 0.0017
>
>
> Add powerlifting, weight training, and weightlifting together
> (because they're all the same thing) and you get:
>
> Sport Injuries per 100 participation hours
>
> Schoolchild soccer 6.20
> UK Rugby 1.92
> USA Backetball 0.03
> UK Cross-country 0.37
> Squash 0.10
> USA football 0.10
> Badminton 0.05
> USA Gymnastics 0.044
> Weight lifting 0.0079 *
> USA Tennis 0.001
> USA Volleyball 0.0013
>
> I.e., "7 times as dangerous" as either Tennis or Volleyball.
>
> And I don't know what "Backetball" is, but it's out of place, too...

Basketball.

You don't know much about statistics or science, do you?

If you add the three together (since they are all rates) you get

..00263

ie. About twice the incidence of injury per participation hour as
volleyball. About half as many injuries per hour as badminton.

Duh.
>
> --Blair
> "What's the injury rate for
> hitting on chicks in bars?"

John Hanson
November 27th 04, 09:40 PM
On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 15:03:59 -0600, John Hanson
> wrote in misc.fitness.weights:

>On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 20:41:31 GMT, Blair P. Houghton > wrote in
>misc.fitness.weights:
>
>>Keith Hobman > wrote:
>>>Table 7: .Injury Rates Among Sports: Hamill 1994
>>>
>>>Sport Injuries per 100 participation hours
>>>
>>>Schoolchild soccer 6.20
>>>UK Rugby 1.92
>>>USA Backetball 0.03
>>>UK Cross-country 0.37
>>>Squash 0.10
>>>USA football 0.10
>>>Badminton 0.05
>>>USA Gymnastics 0.044
>>>USA Powerlifting 0.0027
>>>USA Tennis 0.001
>>>USA Volleyball 0.0013
>>>Weight training 0.0035
>>>Weightlifting 0.0017
>>
>>
>>Add powerlifting, weight training, and weightlifting together
>>(because they're all the same thing) and you get:
>>
>>Sport Injuries per 100 participation hours
>>
>>Schoolchild soccer 6.20
>>UK Rugby 1.92
>>USA Backetball 0.03
>>UK Cross-country 0.37
>>Squash 0.10
>>USA football 0.10
>>Badminton 0.05
>>USA Gymnastics 0.044
>>Weight lifting 0.0079 *
>>USA Tennis 0.001
>>USA Volleyball 0.0013
>>
>>I.e., "7 times as dangerous" as either Tennis or Volleyball.
>
>No! It would be 0.0029/100 participation hours.
>
Doh, typo. 0.0026/100...thanks Keith.

Keith Hobman
November 27th 04, 09:40 PM
In article >, John Hanson
> wrote:

> On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 15:03:59 -0600, John Hanson
> > wrote in misc.fitness.weights:
>
> >On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 20:41:31 GMT, Blair P. Houghton > wrote in
> >misc.fitness.weights:
> >
> >>Keith Hobman > wrote:
> >>>Table 7: .Injury Rates Among Sports: Hamill 1994
> >>>
> >>>Sport Injuries per 100 participation hours
> >>>
> >>>Schoolchild soccer 6.20
> >>>UK Rugby 1.92
> >>>USA Backetball 0.03
> >>>UK Cross-country 0.37
> >>>Squash 0.10
> >>>USA football 0.10
> >>>Badminton 0.05
> >>>USA Gymnastics 0.044
> >>>USA Powerlifting 0.0027
> >>>USA Tennis 0.001
> >>>USA Volleyball 0.0013
> >>>Weight training 0.0035
> >>>Weightlifting 0.0017
> >>
> >>
> >>Add powerlifting, weight training, and weightlifting together
> >>(because they're all the same thing) and you get:
> >>
> >>Sport Injuries per 100 participation hours
> >>
> >>Schoolchild soccer 6.20
> >>UK Rugby 1.92
> >>USA Backetball 0.03
> >>UK Cross-country 0.37
> >>Squash 0.10
> >>USA football 0.10
> >>Badminton 0.05
> >>USA Gymnastics 0.044
> >>Weight lifting 0.0079 *
> >>USA Tennis 0.001
> >>USA Volleyball 0.0013
> >>
> >>I.e., "7 times as dangerous" as either Tennis or Volleyball.
> >
> >No! It would be 0.0029/100 participation hours.
> >
> Doh, typo. 0.0026/100...thanks Keith.

Blair don't know much about either powerlifting or weightlifting if he
thinks they are the same thing either. Weight training of course could
encompass either, although it tends to be slanted towards hypertrophy.

Steve Freides
November 27th 04, 09:55 PM
> wrote in message
...
>> I
>>firmly believe that I have decreased my risk of major back injury by
>>training, and regularly testing, my limit strength.
>
> Whenever one tests one maximum lift one increases the chance of
> injury. The more often one tests one's maximum lift the more likely
> one will suffer an injury. Maybe the fact that you have not
> experienced serious injury is in spite of rather than because of your
> lifting maximally.
>
> I suspect that if you just trained as you do and never tested your
> maximum strength that you would reduce your risk of back injury while
> markedly eliminating the chance of acute injury when lifting
> maximally. Why would stressing your body by trying to lift a maximal
> weight reduce chances of injury??
>
> Remember it just takes a single injury while trying to lift maximally
> to seriously injure you. A word to the wise.

No, you're missing the point entirely. I've already _had_ the serious
back injury because I was weak and inflexible and it didn't happen
lifting - it happened while I was standing around doing nothing at all.
Regularly challenging - "stressing" if you prefer - myself by lifting
heavy weights is what keeps it from returning.

The "acute" injury I suffered on Tuesday has healed to the point where I
deadlifted 300 x 2 today completely pain-free. Without a doubt in my
mind, part of the reason I recovered so quickly is because I'm strong
and I've learned a lot about my body in the process of learning how to
measure up to the challenge of lifting heavy. Max tests are a necessary
part of acquiring limit strength and, like I said, the lack of
acquisition of limit strength is, in my opinion, the biggest thing wrong
with most fitness programs I see. There is no worthwhile reward without
a risk, and I think the tradeoffs here are well worth the risk.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

Brian Link
November 27th 04, 09:59 PM
On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 08:14:57 -0700, Paul Cassel > wrote:

>Brian Link wrote:
>
>>
>> After sitting on my couch weeping, I decided I should see the doctor,
>> who prescribed some Vicodin for me.
>>
>
>What did the doc diagnose as your injury? He didn't just keep his pie
>hole shut and vend you some narcotics - did he?
>
>-paul

He said that since the pain was very localized, and only on one side
of the spine, that it was likely a soft-tissue injury. No pain
radiating down my legs, no issues with numbness or tingling anywhere.
Feels like other pulled muscles I've had, only times ten.

BLink

Brian Link
November 27th 04, 10:03 PM
On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 06:02:26 GMT, "David Cohen"
> wrote:

>
>"Brian Link" > wrote
>> Not very impressive, but I managed 300lbs in a trap-bar deadlift the
>> other day.
>>
>> On the way up, I noticed I was a bit too far forward, and so jerked up
>> with my back to bring my center of gravity back. I then felt a
>> disturbing "crunch" in my lower back. Sort of like the sensation of
>> cracking your knuckles. Not knowing what to do, I decided to finish
>> the lift, which I did, and then dropped the weights.
>>
>> At the time I didn't feel any pain, but rather a definite "this feels
>> wrong, somehow" in my lower back.
>>
>> I went to bed that night, and when I woke up was unable to figure out
>> how to get out of bed.
>>
>> After sitting on my couch weeping, I decided I should see the doctor,
>> who prescribed some Vicodin for me.
>>
>> All I have to say is that I figure I'm lucky not to have injured
>> myself earlier - and I can really understand why "lower-back health"
>> is such a lucrative business. The pain is pretty overwhelming, prolly
>> comparable only to childbirth or kidney stones.
>>
>> The Vicodin takes the edge off, but there's no doubt that some little
>> ligament back there is angry enough to continue to wreck my sleeping
>> and waking.
>>
>> Hopefully it'll get better. =/
>
>1) If that's all the doctor did for you, fire his incompetant ass and get a
>better one.
>
>2) You have a spinal compression injury, likely the L5-S1 lumbar-sacral
>joint.

Wouldn't that have been instantly painful, rather than creeping up
overnight?

>If the pain seems more one-sided and radiates down the rear of one
>leg, it could be a sacro-iliac joint. Either way, covering up the pain is
>nice, but, doesn't solve the problem. Actually, it is not a solvable
>problem...once you've done this, you will always be more prone to the same
>injury. You need some physical therapy...find a good PT and have him (her)
>show you the way. Also, inversion therapy is extremely helpful here. It has
>virtually eliminated my long time LS and SI joint compression problems.
>
>If this advice proves useful, you must vote Republican from now on, as
>payment.

It was a back injury, not a concussion...

>David
>
>

Elzinator
November 27th 04, 10:20 PM
"David Cohen" > wrote in message t>...
> "Brian Link" > wrote
> > Not very impressive, but I managed 300lbs in a trap-bar deadlift the
> > other day.
> >
> > On the way up, I noticed I was a bit too far forward, and so jerked up
> > with my back to bring my center of gravity back. I then felt a
> > disturbing "crunch" in my lower back. Sort of like the sensation of
> > cracking your knuckles. Not knowing what to do, I decided to finish
> > the lift, which I did, and then dropped the weights.
> >
> > At the time I didn't feel any pain, but rather a definite "this feels
> > wrong, somehow" in my lower back.
> >
> > I went to bed that night, and when I woke up was unable to figure out
> > how to get out of bed.
> >
> > After sitting on my couch weeping, I decided I should see the doctor,
> > who prescribed some Vicodin for me.
> >
> > All I have to say is that I figure I'm lucky not to have injured
> > myself earlier - and I can really understand why "lower-back health"
> > is such a lucrative business. The pain is pretty overwhelming, prolly
> > comparable only to childbirth or kidney stones.
> >
> > The Vicodin takes the edge off, but there's no doubt that some little
> > ligament back there is angry enough to continue to wreck my sleeping
> > and waking.
> >
> > Hopefully it'll get better. =/
>
> 1) If that's all the doctor did for you, fire his incompetant ass and get a
> better one.
>
> 2) You have a spinal compression injury, likely the L5-S1 lumbar-sacral
> joint. If the pain seems more one-sided and radiates down the rear of one
> leg, it could be a sacro-iliac joint. Either way, covering up the pain is
> nice, but, doesn't solve the problem. Actually, it is not a solvable
> problem...once you've done this, you will always be more prone to the same
> injury. You need some physical therapy...find a good PT and have him (her)
> show you the way. Also, inversion therapy is extremely helpful here. It has
> virtually eliminated my long time LS and SI joint compression problems.
>
> If this advice proves useful, you must vote Republican from now on, as
> payment.

I agree with David's first assessment, and 3/4 of his second.
Inversion tables do not work for everyone and may even be
contraindicated for some. Check with competent caretakers first.

As for his third recommendation, David can eat **** :)

BTW, the full moon over the mountains last night was ****ing awwwesome
observed from the airplane. I wanted to reach out and embrace it.

Yours truly,

a card-carrying member of Americans for Non-partisanship

Steve Freides
November 27th 04, 10:26 PM
> wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 16:55:44 -0500, "Steve Freides"
> > wrote:
>
> wrote in message
...
>>>> I
>>>>firmly believe that I have decreased my risk of major back injury by
>>>>training, and regularly testing, my limit strength.
>>>
>>> Whenever one tests one maximum lift one increases the chance of
>>> injury. The more often one tests one's maximum lift the more likely
>>> one will suffer an injury. Maybe the fact that you have not
>>> experienced serious injury is in spite of rather than because of
>>> your
>>> lifting maximally.
>>>
>>> I suspect that if you just trained as you do and never tested your
>>> maximum strength that you would reduce your risk of back injury
>>> while
>>> markedly eliminating the chance of acute injury when lifting
>>> maximally. Why would stressing your body by trying to lift a maximal
>>> weight reduce chances of injury??
>>>
>>> Remember it just takes a single injury while trying to lift
>>> maximally
>>> to seriously injure you. A word to the wise.
>>
>>No, you're missing the point entirely.
>
> Maybe it is you who missed the point.
>
>> I've already _had_ the serious
>>back injury because I was weak and inflexible and it didn't happen
>>lifting - it happened while I was standing around doing nothing at
>>all.
>
> If you have a history of back injury then my advice is even more
> appropriate; avoid maximal lifts. Now don't get me wrong. I think that
> lifting moderate to heavy weights with good form will help you to
> prevent injuries in the future. I also believe that progressively
> increasing weight and cycling the weights is helpful.
>
> However testing one's maximal lifts is risky IMO. Just because you
> have not injured yourself doing this, don't assume that you won't in
> the future.

You're deadlifting between 225 and 275 at what body weight, please, that
you're calling 275 "heavy?"

>>Regularly challenging - "stressing" if you prefer - myself by lifting
>>heavy weights is what keeps it from returning.
>
> How on earth can you know with any degree of certainty exactly why it
> has not returned. You are simply speculating.

And what are you doing? You don't want to test your max, that's fine,
but there are no statistics to suggest testing one's max is something
that warrants the description "risky."

> There is no problem with
> speculating but if your speculation results in your engaging in
> inherently dangerous practices then it could be a problem. Hopefully
> you will not find out the hard way. As I said it only takes a single
> event to change your life forever.

My contention is that, if I use proper technique and train properly, a
too-heavy lift simply will not move or the lift will not complete, but
it will not hurt me. I do not see the danger in that. My too-heavy
DL's sit on the floor, my too heavy squats and bench presses get dumped
on the safety pins in the rack.

>>The "acute" injury I suffered on Tuesday has healed to the point where
>>I
>>deadlifted 300 x 2 today completely pain-free. Without a doubt in my
>>mind, part of the reason I recovered so quickly is because I'm strong
>>and I've learned a lot about my body in the process of learning how to
>>measure up to the challenge of lifting heavy.
>
> You can get very strong without testing your maximal lifts. The only
> reason I can see for testing one's maximal lifts is at the time you
> are competing, if you do compete.

When you are "very strong," lifting the manner you do, come tell us
about it. Unless you weigh 114 lbs., 275 just isn't what I'd call a
strong deadlift.

>> Max tests are a necessary
>>part of acquiring limit strength
>
> <snip>
>
> Who says?? All max tests do is tell you what the maximal amount of
> weight you can lift in any particular exercise. A case can be made
> that testing max lifts may actually slow your progress.

I have trained for long stretches of time without testing my max, and
during those periods of time I have maintained, and not increased, my
strength. I wish to become stronger, and periodic max tests, even if
they're only once or twice a year, are a necessary part of that process.
You might be happier with the concept of testing a 3- or 5-rep max
instead of a 1RM - I could live with that, although I don't see that the
risk on the 5th rep of a 5RM set is any less than the risk of a 1RM
attempt. In fact, I'd argue the risk is greater when doing more reps.

> Paul

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

David Cohen
November 27th 04, 10:34 PM
"Brian Link" > wrote
> "David Cohen" > wrote:
>>"Brian Link" > wrote
>>> Not very impressive, but I managed 300lbs in a trap-bar deadlift the
>>> other day.
>>>
>>> On the way up, I noticed I was a bit too far forward, and so jerked up
>>> with my back to bring my center of gravity back. I then felt a
>>> disturbing "crunch" in my lower back. Sort of like the sensation of
>>> cracking your knuckles. Not knowing what to do, I decided to finish
>>> the lift, which I did, and then dropped the weights.
>>>
>>> At the time I didn't feel any pain, but rather a definite "this feels
>>> wrong, somehow" in my lower back.
>>>
>>> I went to bed that night, and when I woke up was unable to figure out
>>> how to get out of bed.
>>>
>>> After sitting on my couch weeping, I decided I should see the doctor,
>>> who prescribed some Vicodin for me.
>>>
>>> All I have to say is that I figure I'm lucky not to have injured
>>> myself earlier - and I can really understand why "lower-back health"
>>> is such a lucrative business. The pain is pretty overwhelming, prolly
>>> comparable only to childbirth or kidney stones.
>>>
>>> The Vicodin takes the edge off, but there's no doubt that some little
>>> ligament back there is angry enough to continue to wreck my sleeping
>>> and waking.
>>>
>>> Hopefully it'll get better. =/
>>
>>1) If that's all the doctor did for you, fire his incompetant ass and get
>>a
>>better one.
>>
>>2) You have a spinal compression injury, likely the L5-S1 lumbar-sacral
>>joint.
>
> Wouldn't that have been instantly painful, rather than creeping up
> overnight?

Not necessarily. Particularly with a L5-S1 compression, the pain might start
as a pressure, or a "disturbing crunch". The severe pain could start after
some rest. A good PT, or at least a good chiropractor, could do a much
better job of diagnosis and treatment than your Vicodin MD. (BTW, Vicodin
works much better when combined with 800 mg iboprofen every six hours and
alcohol)

Inversion could also act as a diagnostic tool. If it is a spinal
compression, you would get drastic, significant relief with just one
session. If it is a soft tissue, or ligament/tendon, injury, inversion won't
help. Find a S&M Mistress with a dungeon, or a Physical Therapist.

>>If the pain seems more one-sided and radiates down the rear of one
>>leg, it could be a sacro-iliac joint. Either way, covering up the pain is
>>nice, but, doesn't solve the problem. Actually, it is not a solvable
>>problem...once you've done this, you will always be more prone to the same
>>injury. You need some physical therapy...find a good PT and have him (her)
>>show you the way. Also, inversion therapy is extremely helpful here. It
>>has
>>virtually eliminated my long time LS and SI joint compression problems.
>>
>>If this advice proves useful, you must vote Republican from now on, as
>>payment.
>
> It was a back injury, not a concussion...

One of the classic symptoms of a concussion is short term memory loss with
repetitive questioning, such as "Why the hell did I vote for Kerry?", "Why
the hell did I vote for Kerry?", "Why the hell did I vote for Kerry?", "Why
the hell did I vote for Kerry?", "Why the hell did I vote for Kerry?"...

David

Pat Styles
November 27th 04, 10:43 PM
"Keith Hobman" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, Usenet Posting
> > wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 10:34:21 -0500, "Steve Freides"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >"Brian Link" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >> Not very impressive, but I managed 300lbs in a trap-bar deadlift the
>> >> other day.
>> >>
>> >> On the way up, I noticed I was a bit too far forward, and so jerked up
>> >> with my back to bring my center of gravity back. I then felt a
>> >> disturbing "crunch" in my lower back. Sort of like the sensation of
>> >> cracking your knuckles. Not knowing what to do, I decided to finish
>> >> the lift, which I did, and then dropped the weights.
>> >>
>> >> At the time I didn't feel any pain, but rather a definite "this feels
>> >> wrong, somehow" in my lower back.
>> >>
>> >> I went to bed that night, and when I woke up was unable to figure out
>> >> how to get out of bed.
>> >>
>> >> After sitting on my couch weeping, I decided I should see the doctor,
>> >> who prescribed some Vicodin for me.
>> >>
>> >> All I have to say is that I figure I'm lucky not to have injured
>> >> myself earlier - and I can really understand why "lower-back health"
>> >> is such a lucrative business. The pain is pretty overwhelming, prolly
>> >> comparable only to childbirth or kidney stones.
>> >>
>> >> The Vicodin takes the edge off, but there's no doubt that some little
>> >> ligament back there is angry enough to continue to wreck my sleeping
>> >> and waking.
>> >>
>> >> Hopefully it'll get better. =/
>> >
>> >David's right - you need to think about a better doctor. In the
>> >meantime, and in the "my experience, for what it's worth to you"
>> >department, here's my recent, very similar experience.
>> >
>> >Tuesday I deadlifted a new PR, 350 lbs at a bodyweight of 153 (regular
>>
>> Since I'm me I also have to say I think this just foolish. There is
>> really no reason for people who are not earning a living off
>> powerlifting to risk their health in such reckless ways. This is
>> especially true if you start to find your recreational lifting
>> adventures to be more a series of injuries than enjoyment. I know MFW
>> is supposed to be the "echo chamber" for this idiotic behavior but I,
>> as usual, am not afraid to be the voice of dissent.
>
> Mike doesn't like challenges.

Mike's a wuss.
ps

JayB
November 28th 04, 12:08 AM
"Brian Link" > wrote in message
...
> Not very impressive, but I managed 300lbs in a trap-bar deadlift the
> other day.

What does PB mean in Deadlift PB?

--
JayB

Brian Link
November 28th 04, 12:12 AM
On 27 Nov 2004 14:20:55 -0800, (Elzinator)
wrote:

>"David Cohen" > wrote in message t>...
>> "Brian Link" > wrote
>> > Not very impressive, but I managed 300lbs in a trap-bar deadlift the
>> > other day.
>> >
>> > On the way up, I noticed I was a bit too far forward, and so jerked up
>> > with my back to bring my center of gravity back. I then felt a
>> > disturbing "crunch" in my lower back. Sort of like the sensation of
>> > cracking your knuckles. Not knowing what to do, I decided to finish
>> > the lift, which I did, and then dropped the weights.
>> >
>> > At the time I didn't feel any pain, but rather a definite "this feels
>> > wrong, somehow" in my lower back.
>> >
>> > I went to bed that night, and when I woke up was unable to figure out
>> > how to get out of bed.
>> >
>> > After sitting on my couch weeping, I decided I should see the doctor,
>> > who prescribed some Vicodin for me.
>> >
>> > All I have to say is that I figure I'm lucky not to have injured
>> > myself earlier - and I can really understand why "lower-back health"
>> > is such a lucrative business. The pain is pretty overwhelming, prolly
>> > comparable only to childbirth or kidney stones.
>> >
>> > The Vicodin takes the edge off, but there's no doubt that some little
>> > ligament back there is angry enough to continue to wreck my sleeping
>> > and waking.
>> >
>> > Hopefully it'll get better. =/
>>
>> 1) If that's all the doctor did for you, fire his incompetant ass and get a
>> better one.
>>
>> 2) You have a spinal compression injury, likely the L5-S1 lumbar-sacral
>> joint. If the pain seems more one-sided and radiates down the rear of one
>> leg, it could be a sacro-iliac joint. Either way, covering up the pain is
>> nice, but, doesn't solve the problem. Actually, it is not a solvable
>> problem...once you've done this, you will always be more prone to the same
>> injury. You need some physical therapy...find a good PT and have him (her)
>> show you the way. Also, inversion therapy is extremely helpful here. It has
>> virtually eliminated my long time LS and SI joint compression problems.
>>
>> If this advice proves useful, you must vote Republican from now on, as
>> payment.
>
>I agree with David's first assessment, and 3/4 of his second.
>Inversion tables do not work for everyone and may even be
>contraindicated for some. Check with competent caretakers first.

Luckily, there's an orthopedist in my church choir (apparently
connected with the Minnesota Vikings somehow). He's been more than
happy to dispense advice in the past, which has proved useful since
I'm now the third section leader to toast his back in the last couple
months.

I'll grill him on his opinion.

>As for his third recommendation, David can eat **** :)
>
>BTW, the full moon over the mountains last night was ****ing awwwesome
>observed from the airplane. I wanted to reach out and embrace it.
>
>Yours truly,
>
>a card-carrying member of Americans for Non-partisanship

John Hanson
November 28th 04, 12:20 AM
On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 00:08:05 GMT, "JayB" > wrote in
misc.fitness.weights:

>
>"Brian Link" > wrote in message
...
>> Not very impressive, but I managed 300lbs in a trap-bar deadlift the
>> other day.
>
>What does PB mean in Deadlift PB?

Personal Best

Lee Michaels
November 28th 04, 01:17 AM
"JayB" > wrote
>
> "Brian Link" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Not very impressive, but I managed 300lbs in a trap-bar deadlift the
> > other day.
>
> What does PB mean in Deadlift PB?
>
Peanut Butter.

Steve Freides
November 28th 04, 02:00 AM
"John Hanson" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 00:08:05 GMT, "JayB" > wrote in
> misc.fitness.weights:
>
>>
>>"Brian Link" > wrote in message
...
>>> Not very impressive, but I managed 300lbs in a trap-bar deadlift the
>>> other day.
>>
>>What does PB mean in Deadlift PB?
>
> Personal Best

Over on news:rec.running, we used to call them PR for Personal Record.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

John Hanson
November 28th 04, 02:38 AM
On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 21:00:04 -0500, "Steve Freides"
> wrote in misc.fitness.weights:

>"John Hanson" > wrote in message
...
>> On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 00:08:05 GMT, "JayB" > wrote in
>> misc.fitness.weights:
>>
>>>
>>>"Brian Link" > wrote in message
...
>>>> Not very impressive, but I managed 300lbs in a trap-bar deadlift the
>>>> other day.
>>>
>>>What does PB mean in Deadlift PB?
>>
>> Personal Best
>
>Over on news:rec.running, we used to call them PR for Personal Record.
>
PR is the "term" I normally use.

David Cohen
November 28th 04, 02:59 AM
"John Hanson" > wrote
> "Steve Freides" > wrote in
> misc.fitness.weights:
>>"John Hanson" > wrote
>>> "JayB" > wrote in misc.fitness.weights:
>>>>"Brian Link" > wrote
>>>>> Not very impressive, but I managed 300lbs in a trap-bar deadlift the
>>>>> other day.
>>>>
>>>>What does PB mean in Deadlift PB?
>>>
>>> Personal Best
>>
>>Over on news:rec.running, we used to call them PR for Personal Record.
>>
> PR is the "term" I normally use.

That that in New Yawk and you'll get a knife in the gut.

David

ATP
November 28th 04, 03:29 AM
"John Hanson" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 00:08:05 GMT, "JayB" > wrote in
> misc.fitness.weights:
>
> >
> >"Brian Link" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> Not very impressive, but I managed 300lbs in a trap-bar deadlift the
> >> other day.
> >
> >What does PB mean in Deadlift PB?
>
> Personal Best

Without the lesbian connotations

Idie
November 28th 04, 04:12 AM
JayB > wrote in message
...
>
> "Brian Link" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Not very impressive, but I managed 300lbs in a trap-bar deadlift the
> > other day.
>
> What does PB mean in Deadlift PB?
>
> --
> JayB
>
>

it means the bar you are using is green

(not that obscure a reference for the MFW insider)

whit

Proton Soup
November 28th 04, 04:41 AM
On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 22:29:41 -0500, "ATP"
> wrote:

>
>"John Hanson" > wrote in message
...
>> On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 00:08:05 GMT, "JayB" > wrote in
>> misc.fitness.weights:
>>
>> >
>> >"Brian Link" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >> Not very impressive, but I managed 300lbs in a trap-bar deadlift the
>> >> other day.
>> >
>> >What does PB mean in Deadlift PB?
>>
>> Personal Best
>
>Without the lesbian connotations

The penis envy scene in that movie was certainly fascinating.

-----------
Proton Soup

"Thanks for noticing that I didn't actually say anything." - Mike Lane

Idie
November 28th 04, 04:43 AM
John M. Williams > wrote in message
...
> "David Cohen" > wrote:
> >"Brian Link" > wrote:
> >> Not very impressive, but I managed 300lbs in a trap-bar deadlift the
> >> other day.
> >>
> >> On the way up, I noticed I was a bit too far forward, and so jerked up
> >> with my back to bring my center of gravity back. I then felt a
> >> disturbing "crunch" in my lower back. Sort of like the sensation of
> >> cracking your knuckles. Not knowing what to do, I decided to finish
> >> the lift, which I did, and then dropped the weights.
> >>
> >> At the time I didn't feel any pain, but rather a definite "this feels
> >> wrong, somehow" in my lower back.
> >>
> >> I went to bed that night, and when I woke up was unable to figure out
> >> how to get out of bed.
> >>
> >> After sitting on my couch weeping, I decided I should see the doctor,
> >> who prescribed some Vicodin for me.
> >>
> >> All I have to say is that I figure I'm lucky not to have injured
> >> myself earlier - and I can really understand why "lower-back health"
> >> is such a lucrative business. The pain is pretty overwhelming, prolly
> >> comparable only to childbirth or kidney stones.
> >>
> >> The Vicodin takes the edge off, but there's no doubt that some little
> >> ligament back there is angry enough to continue to wreck my sleeping
> >> and waking.
> >>
> >> Hopefully it'll get better. =/
> >
> >1) If that's all the doctor did for you, fire his incompetant ass and get
a
> >better one.
> >
> >2) You have a spinal compression injury, likely the L5-S1 lumbar-sacral
> >joint. If the pain seems more one-sided and radiates down the rear of one
> >leg, it could be a sacro-iliac joint. Either way, covering up the pain is
> >nice, but, doesn't solve the problem. Actually, it is not a solvable
> >problem...once you've done this, you will always be more prone to the
same
> >injury. You need some physical therapy...find a good PT and have him
(her)
> >show you the way. Also, inversion therapy is extremely helpful here. It
has
> >virtually eliminated my long time LS and SI joint compression problems.
> >
> >If this advice proves useful, you must vote Republican from now on, as
> >payment.
>
> Actually, this was G*d punishing him for voting Democrat.
>
> What he doesn't yet realize is that, from now on, G*d will remind him
> each and every time he tries to crane something with his back ... even
> light stuff.

i should note that i do not know the "nature of god".

i do know that he does not curl in the squat rack

whit

Mick R.
November 28th 04, 04:55 AM
"Idie" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> John M. Williams > wrote in message
> ...
> > "David Cohen" > wrote:
> > >"Brian Link" > wrote:
> > >> Not very impressive, but I managed 300lbs in a trap-bar deadlift the
> > >> other day.
> > >>
> > >> On the way up, I noticed I was a bit too far forward, and so jerked
up
> > >> with my back to bring my center of gravity back. I then felt a
> > >> disturbing "crunch" in my lower back. Sort of like the sensation of
> > >> cracking your knuckles. Not knowing what to do, I decided to finish
> > >> the lift, which I did, and then dropped the weights.
> > >>
> > >> At the time I didn't feel any pain, but rather a definite "this feels
> > >> wrong, somehow" in my lower back.
> > >>
> > >> I went to bed that night, and when I woke up was unable to figure out
> > >> how to get out of bed.
> > >>
> > >> After sitting on my couch weeping, I decided I should see the doctor,
> > >> who prescribed some Vicodin for me.
> > >>
> > >> All I have to say is that I figure I'm lucky not to have injured
> > >> myself earlier - and I can really understand why "lower-back health"
> > >> is such a lucrative business. The pain is pretty overwhelming, prolly
> > >> comparable only to childbirth or kidney stones.
> > >>
> > >> The Vicodin takes the edge off, but there's no doubt that some little
> > >> ligament back there is angry enough to continue to wreck my sleeping
> > >> and waking.
> > >>
> > >> Hopefully it'll get better. =/
> > >
> > >1) If that's all the doctor did for you, fire his incompetant ass and
get
> a
> > >better one.
> > >
> > >2) You have a spinal compression injury, likely the L5-S1 lumbar-sacral
> > >joint. If the pain seems more one-sided and radiates down the rear of
one
> > >leg, it could be a sacro-iliac joint. Either way, covering up the pain
is
> > >nice, but, doesn't solve the problem. Actually, it is not a solvable
> > >problem...once you've done this, you will always be more prone to the
> same
> > >injury. You need some physical therapy...find a good PT and have him
> (her)
> > >show you the way. Also, inversion therapy is extremely helpful here. It
> has
> > >virtually eliminated my long time LS and SI joint compression problems.
> > >
> > >If this advice proves useful, you must vote Republican from now on, as
> > >payment.
> >
> > Actually, this was G*d punishing him for voting Democrat.
> >
> > What he doesn't yet realize is that, from now on, G*d will remind him
> > each and every time he tries to crane something with his back ... even
> > light stuff.
>
> i should note that i do not know the "nature of god".
>
> i do know that he does not curl in the squat rack
>
and hence smite-ing those that do isn't a sin.

> whit
>
>
>

Idie
November 28th 04, 04:59 AM
Usenet Posting > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 17:26:49 -0500, "Steve Freides"
> > wrote:
>
>
> >When you are "very strong," lifting the manner you do, come tell us
> >about it. Unless you weigh 114 lbs., 275 just isn't what I'd call a
> >strong deadlift.
>
> You're replying to the wrong guy. I think. Anyways, I cycle up to
> 275 lbs because it is a strain at that point but still within reason,
> for me. As I said, I could keep right on going heavier but the
> benefits of doing so are not apparent to me.
>

if DEADLIFTING 275 is a "strain" to you mike, maybe you are in the wrong
endeavor

that's a mildly straining power clean to somebody who has been training as
long as you

whit


> I think you're caught in a cycle that many people who weight train get
> into. "What, only XYZ, well that is hardly anything. Get back to me
> when you can lift ZYX." This logic is circular and you'll NEVER get
> to a weight that satisfies you. You'll keep pushing it and pushing it
> until eventually, inevitably you'll be testing the limits of what you
> can handle and you'll have a small concentration break. Then, instead
> of talking about how you are going to get .25 lb magnetic weights to
> help you increment up you'll be wondering how to walk across the room.
>
> This I see no point to but I do clearly see the circular logic
> involved.
>
>
> --
> The pain is pretty overwhelming, prolly
> comparable only to childbirth or kidney stones.
> --Brian L.

Adam Fahy
November 28th 04, 05:33 AM
Usenet Posting wrote:

> You're replying to the wrong guy. I think. Anyways, I cycle up to
> 275 lbs because it is a strain at that point but still within reason,
> for me. As I said, I could keep right on going heavier but the
> benefits of doing so are not apparent to me.

I think the problem is, you're trying to intellectually justify the fact
that you're in a rut, rather than trying to figure out exactly what the
limiting factors are in your performance. That's what it reads like to
me. I'd also question why you're deadlifting in the first place, or
even if you really deadlift with any frequency, and whether you're
setting yourself up for this sort of circular pattern (if you're not
just making this all up)...


-Adam

John M. Williams
November 28th 04, 06:25 AM
"ATP" > wrote:
>"John Hanson" > wrote:
>> "JayB" > wrote:
>> >"Brian Link" > wrote:
>> >> Not very impressive, but I managed 300lbs in a trap-bar deadlift the
>> >> other day.
>> >
>> >What does PB mean in Deadlift PB?
>>
>> Personal Best
>
>Without the lesbian connotations

Those are good connotations, flowing like nice, warm shower water over
Mariel's perky little breasts.

Mmmmmmmmm ...

Elzinator
November 28th 04, 03:42 PM
Brian Link > wrote in message >...
> On 27 Nov 2004 14:20:55 -0800, (Elzinator)
> wrote:
>
> >"David Cohen" > wrote in message t>...

> >> > All I have to say is that I figure I'm lucky not to have injured
> >> > myself earlier - and I can really understand why "lower-back health"
> >> > is such a lucrative business. The pain is pretty overwhelming, prolly
> >> > comparable only to childbirth or kidney stones.
> >> >
> >> > The Vicodin takes the edge off, but there's no doubt that some little
> >> > ligament back there is angry enough to continue to wreck my sleeping
> >> > and waking.
> >> >
> >> > Hopefully it'll get better. =/
> >>
> >> 1) If that's all the doctor did for you, fire his incompetant ass and get a
> >> better one.
> >>
> >> 2) You have a spinal compression injury, likely the L5-S1 lumbar-sacral
> >> joint. If the pain seems more one-sided and radiates down the rear of one
> >> leg, it could be a sacro-iliac joint. Either way, covering up the pain is
> >> nice, but, doesn't solve the problem. Actually, it is not a solvable
> >> problem...once you've done this, you will always be more prone to the same
> >> injury. You need some physical therapy...find a good PT and have him (her)
> >> show you the way. Also, inversion therapy is extremely helpful here. It has
> >> virtually eliminated my long time LS and SI joint compression problems.
> >>
> >> If this advice proves useful, you must vote Republican from now on, as
> >> payment.
> >
> >I agree with David's first assessment, and 3/4 of his second.
> >Inversion tables do not work for everyone and may even be
> >contraindicated for some. Check with competent caretakers first.
>
> Luckily, there's an orthopedist in my church choir (apparently
> connected with the Minnesota Vikings somehow). He's been more than
> happy to dispense advice in the past, which has proved useful since
> I'm now the third section leader to toast his back in the last couple
> months.
>
> I'll grill him on his opinion.

A word of caution:
Many physical therpists are more competent than orthopods. In the
surgery room, the orthopods excel; that is their field of expertise.
But when it comes to function and rehab, the PTs are more competent. I
discussed this with an orthopod once (exceptional in that he was also
an athlete and had a wider background than most orthopods) and he
conceeded that most of his colleagues are by far less competent at
function and rehab than a good PT. His comment was "That's why we have
PTs. We 'cut and sew', then send the patients to good PTs to get them
up and running again." My experience has supported this except for the
one OP mentioned above. And it has been two PTs that have successfully
kept me out of surgery where the OPs blankly prescribed disc and SI
fusion.

Good luck.

Elzinator
November 28th 04, 03:55 PM
Brian Link > wrote in message >...
> On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 08:14:57 -0700, Paul Cassel > wrote:
>
> >Brian Link wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> After sitting on my couch weeping, I decided I should see the doctor,
> >> who prescribed some Vicodin for me.
> >>
> >
> >What did the doc diagnose as your injury? He didn't just keep his pie
> >hole shut and vend you some narcotics - did he?
>
> He said that since the pain was very localized, and only on one side
> of the spine, that it was likely a soft-tissue injury. No pain
> radiating down my legs, no issues with numbness or tingling anywhere.
> Feels like other pulled muscles I've had, only times ten.

And he may be right. But it is important to investigate the extent of
damage and to differentiate between muscle and connective tissue (both
fall into the 'soft tissue' classification). Muscle tissue will have a
better prognosis, it heals quicker and has better regenerative
capacity (to former function).

CT does not: takes much longer to heal, and depending on the degree of
injury, may not be restored to full function. How this is rehabed will
have impact on full function: muscle generally regenerates with full
function restored, but if not properly dealt with adhesions may form.
CT is much more complicated, and, depending on a host of factors, full
function (elasticity, etc) may not be restored. It, too, can form
adhesions to the muscle and/or nearby bone. (A colleague has been
dealing with rehabing to prevent the latter the past two months).
Also, regenerated CT often does not retain full elasticity of the
pre-injury tissue. Many factors influence the regeneration, of which
rehabbing is critical.

Consequently, you may want a more precise and complete evaluation.

Idie
November 28th 04, 08:12 PM
Usenet Posting > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 04:59:35 GMT, "Idie" > wrote:
>
> >
> >Usenet Posting > wrote in message
> ...
> >> On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 17:26:49 -0500, "Steve Freides"
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> >When you are "very strong," lifting the manner you do, come tell us
> >> >about it. Unless you weigh 114 lbs., 275 just isn't what I'd call a
> >> >strong deadlift.
> >>
> >> You're replying to the wrong guy. I think. Anyways, I cycle up to
> >> 275 lbs because it is a strain at that point but still within reason,
> >> for me. As I said, I could keep right on going heavier but the
> >> benefits of doing so are not apparent to me.
> >>
> >
> >if DEADLIFTING 275 is a "strain" to you mike, maybe you are in the wrong
> >endeavor
> >
> >that's a mildly straining power clean to somebody who has been training
as
> >long as you
> >
> >whit
>
> You're echoing whit. It is not a lot of weight in certain contexts
> but to put it in perspective I believe it is pretty well to the right
> of the middle of the bell curve for the whole male population.
>
> Also, you are assuming that my goal is to lift ever more weight--it
> isn't. I've made it clear that I find that particular hobby to be so
> whacked that I believe it is a form of insanity.
>

my goal is at least as much physique enhancement as it is to lift bigger
weights and get stronger

and lifting progressively bigger weights has made my physique progressively
better

what is your goal?

whit

>
> --
> The pain is pretty overwhelming, prolly
> comparable only to childbirth or kidney stones.
> --Brian L.

Adam Fahy
November 28th 04, 08:19 PM
Usenet Posting wrote:

>>>As I said, I could keep right on going heavier but the
>>>benefits of doing so are not apparent to me.

<snip my comments, where I suggested you were in a rut, training-wise/>


> Well, I don't think you read my post or if you did you skimmed. The
> last sentence is of critical import so do focus there.

Basically what you're telling me is that you don't want to train
seriously, or get stronger. You're saying you're applying a limit point
to how strong you wish to get, because you fear you'll hurt yourself if
you try to get stronger. This is a completely fabricated justification
for being in a rut. Just ask, why would you hurt yourself? Because you
would be pushing too far against some strength/form limit point? Well,
why not fix that problem? Because you don't want to get too strong
anyway. Ok, so this is a manufactured situation with circular reasoning
to justify it. If you're afraid of hurting your back, why not take the
time to make sure your form is perfect--cut back on weight, do singles,
train more frequently, do supplemental exercises to strengthen your
hips, your core/lower-back? Because if you "had to do that" you
wouldn't be having fun, which you define as doing some meaningless
10-rep-set scheme? But why? It seems as though you're doing the
motions for the sake of doing the motions, not to actually address any
strength imbalances/weaknesses you have. <shrug> To each their own,
but at least admit you're in a rut; you may find some other activity
more fun.


-Adam

ATP
November 28th 04, 08:32 PM
"Keith Hobman" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, Blair P. Houghton
> > wrote:
>
> > Keith Hobman > wrote:
> > >Table 7: .Injury Rates Among Sports: Hamill 1994
> > >
> > >Sport Injuries per 100 participation hours
> > >
> > >Schoolchild soccer 6.20
> > >UK Rugby 1.92
> > >USA Backetball 0.03
> > >UK Cross-country 0.37
> > >Squash 0.10
> > >USA football 0.10
> > >Badminton 0.05
> > >USA Gymnastics 0.044
> > >USA Powerlifting 0.0027
> > >USA Tennis 0.001
> > >USA Volleyball 0.0013
> > >Weight training 0.0035
> > >Weightlifting 0.0017
> >
> >
> > Add powerlifting, weight training, and weightlifting together
> > (because they're all the same thing) and you get:
> >
> > Sport Injuries per 100 participation hours
> >
> > Schoolchild soccer 6.20
> > UK Rugby 1.92
> > USA Backetball 0.03
> > UK Cross-country 0.37
> > Squash 0.10
> > USA football 0.10
> > Badminton 0.05
> > USA Gymnastics 0.044
> > Weight lifting 0.0079 *
> > USA Tennis 0.001
> > USA Volleyball 0.0013
> >
> > I.e., "7 times as dangerous" as either Tennis or Volleyball.
> >
> > And I don't know what "Backetball" is, but it's out of place, too...
>
> Basketball.
>
> You don't know much about statistics or science, do you?
>
> If you add the three together (since they are all rates) you get
>
> .00263
>
> ie. About twice the incidence of injury per participation hour as
> volleyball. About half as many injuries per hour as badminton.
>
> Duh.

We don't know the nature of the injuries reported for the different
activities, or how likely the participants are to report the injuries. To
draw a conclusion that one sport is safer than another from this data is
really stretching it.

ATP
November 28th 04, 08:33 PM
"John M. Williams" > wrote in message
...
> "ATP" > wrote:
> >"John Hanson" > wrote:
> >> "JayB" > wrote:
> >> >"Brian Link" > wrote:
> >> >> Not very impressive, but I managed 300lbs in a trap-bar deadlift the
> >> >> other day.
> >> >
> >> >What does PB mean in Deadlift PB?
> >>
> >> Personal Best
> >
> >Without the lesbian connotations
>
> Those are good connotations, flowing like nice, warm shower water over
> Mariel's perky little breasts.
>
> Mmmmmmmmm ...

I would say that better things happened to her in that film than in "Star
80".

Lyle McDonald
November 28th 04, 09:00 PM
Adam Fahy wrote:
> Usenet Posting wrote:
>
>>>> As I said, I could keep right on going heavier but the
>>>> benefits of doing so are not apparent to me.
>
>
> <snip my comments, where I suggested you were in a rut, training-wise/>
>
>
>> Well, I don't think you read my post or if you did you skimmed. The
>> last sentence is of critical import so do focus there.
>
>
> Basically what you're telling me is that you don't want to train
> seriously, or get stronger. You're saying you're applying a limit point
> to how strong you wish to get, because you fear you'll hurt yourself if
> you try to get stronger. This is a completely fabricated justification
> for being in a rut. Just ask, why would you hurt yourself? Because you
> would be pushing too far against some strength/form limit point? Well,
> why not fix that problem? Because you don't want to get too strong
> anyway. Ok, so this is a manufactured situation with circular reasoning
> to justify it. If you're afraid of hurting your back, why not take the
> time to make sure your form is perfect--cut back on weight, do singles,
> train more frequently, do supplemental exercises to strengthen your
> hips, your core/lower-back? Because if you "had to do that" you
> wouldn't be having fun, which you define as doing some meaningless
> 10-rep-set scheme? But why?

Because when Mike got off roids, he turned into a born again pussy,
unable to compete or make progress, he decided that to pursue any goal
beyond mediocrity was a bad idea.

He should just off himself now.

Lyle

John Hanson
November 28th 04, 09:51 PM
On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 21:15:50 GMT, Usenet Posting
> wrote in misc.fitness.weights:

>On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 15:32:00 -0500, "ATP"
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Keith Hobman" > wrote in message
...
>>> In article >, Blair P. Houghton
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>> > Keith Hobman > wrote:
>>> > >Table 7: .Injury Rates Among Sports: Hamill 1994
>>> > >
>>> > >Sport Injuries per 100 participation hours
>>> > >
>>> > >Schoolchild soccer 6.20
>>> > >UK Rugby 1.92
>>> > >USA Backetball 0.03
>>> > >UK Cross-country 0.37
>>> > >Squash 0.10
>>> > >USA football 0.10
>>> > >Badminton 0.05
>>> > >USA Gymnastics 0.044
>>> > >USA Powerlifting 0.0027
>>> > >USA Tennis 0.001
>>> > >USA Volleyball 0.0013
>>> > >Weight training 0.0035
>>> > >Weightlifting 0.0017
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Add powerlifting, weight training, and weightlifting together
>>> > (because they're all the same thing) and you get:
>>> >
>>> > Sport Injuries per 100 participation hours
>>> >
>>> > Schoolchild soccer 6.20
>>> > UK Rugby 1.92
>>> > USA Backetball 0.03
>>> > UK Cross-country 0.37
>>> > Squash 0.10
>>> > USA football 0.10
>>> > Badminton 0.05
>>> > USA Gymnastics 0.044
>>> > Weight lifting 0.0079 *
>>> > USA Tennis 0.001
>>> > USA Volleyball 0.0013
>>> >
>>> > I.e., "7 times as dangerous" as either Tennis or Volleyball.
>>> >
>>> > And I don't know what "Backetball" is, but it's out of place, too...
>>>
>>> Basketball.
>>>
>>> You don't know much about statistics or science, do you?
>>>
>>> If you add the three together (since they are all rates) you get
>>>
>>> .00263
>>>
>>> ie. About twice the incidence of injury per participation hour as
>>> volleyball. About half as many injuries per hour as badminton.
>>>
>>> Duh.
>>
>>We don't know the nature of the injuries reported for the different
>>activities, or how likely the participants are to report the injuries. To
>>draw a conclusion that one sport is safer than another from this data is
>>really stretching it.
>>
>
>I'd also ASSume that they are reported injuries that arise from
>"organized events". I think most weightlifting injuries happen
>outside the organized events. I could be wrong, I have not read the
>source document.

And what about "weight training" is higher than both weightlifting and
powerlifting?

Jeff Finlayson
November 28th 04, 10:12 PM
Usenet Posting wrote:
> "Steve Freides" wrote:
>>"Brian Link" wrote:
>>
>>>Not very impressive, but I managed 300lbs in a trap-bar deadlift the
>>>other day.
>>>
>>>On the way up, I noticed I was a bit too far forward, and so jerked up
>>>with my back to bring my center of gravity back. I then felt a
>>>disturbing "crunch" in my lower back. Sort of like the sensation of
>>>cracking your knuckles. Not knowing what to do, I decided to finish
>>>the lift, which I did, and then dropped the weights.
>>>
>>>At the time I didn't feel any pain, but rather a definite "this feels
>>>wrong, somehow" in my lower back.
>>>
>>>I went to bed that night, and when I woke up was unable to figure out
>>>how to get out of bed.
>>>
>>>After sitting on my couch weeping, I decided I should see the doctor,
>>>who prescribed some Vicodin for me.

>>David's right - you need to think about a better doctor. In the
>>meantime, and in the "my experience, for what it's worth to you"
>>department, here's my recent, very similar experience.
>>
>>Tuesday I deadlifted a new PR, 350 lbs at a bodyweight of 153 (regular
>
> Since I'm me I also have to say I think this just foolish. There is
> really no reason for people who are not earning a living off
> powerlifting to risk their health in such reckless ways.

A very small percentage of competing powerlifters earn
a lifting from it.

If one is not training for powerlifting or limit strength,
then I say why max out?

Jeff Finlayson
November 28th 04, 10:16 PM
JayB wrote:

> What does PB mean in Deadlift PB?

Poor Boy

Jeff Finlayson
November 28th 04, 11:45 PM
Steve Freides wrote:
> John Hanson wrote:
>>JayB wrote:

>>>What does PB mean in Deadlift PB?
>>
>>Personal Best
>
> Over on rec.running, we used to call them PR for Personal Record.

PB is PR, 6 or a half dozen..

Adam Fahy
November 28th 04, 11:56 PM
Usenet Posting wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 20:19:30 GMT, Adam Fahy >
> wrote:

>>Basically what you're telling me is that you don't want to train
>>seriously, or get stronger. You're saying you're applying a limit point
>>to how strong you wish to get, because you fear you'll hurt yourself if
>>you try to get stronger. This is a completely fabricated justification
>>for being in a rut. Just ask, why would you hurt yourself? Because you
>>would be pushing too far against some strength/form limit point? Well,
>>why not fix that problem? Because you don't want to get too strong
>>anyway. Ok, so this is a manufactured situation with circular reasoning
>>to justify it. If you're afraid of hurting your back, why not take the
>>time to make sure your form is perfect--cut back on weight, do singles,
>>train more frequently, do supplemental exercises to strengthen your
>>hips, your core/lower-back? Because if you "had to do that" you
>>wouldn't be having fun, which you define as doing some meaningless
>>10-rep-set scheme? But why? It seems as though you're doing the
>>motions for the sake of doing the motions, not to actually address any
>>strength imbalances/weaknesses you have. <shrug> To each their own,
>>but at least admit you're in a rut; you may find some other activity
>>more fun.

> And who are you to tell me what my goals ought to be?

When did I do that again? I suggested that perhaps you're in a rut and
would be better served by either fixing your underlying problems, or
maybe have more fun doing some other activity, rather than try to come
up with tenuous justifications for spinning your wheels and
self-righteously attacking other people and their goals; which, need I
remind you, is what you were trolling about in the first place.


-Adam

Idie
November 29th 04, 12:54 AM
Usenet Posting > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 20:12:55 GMT, "Idie" > wrote:
>
> >
> >Usenet Posting > wrote in message
> ...
> >> On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 04:59:35 GMT, "Idie" > wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >Usenet Posting > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> >> On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 17:26:49 -0500, "Steve Freides"
> >> >> > wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> >When you are "very strong," lifting the manner you do, come tell us
> >> >> >about it. Unless you weigh 114 lbs., 275 just isn't what I'd call
a
> >> >> >strong deadlift.
> >> >>
> >> >> You're replying to the wrong guy. I think. Anyways, I cycle up to
> >> >> 275 lbs because it is a strain at that point but still within
reason,
> >> >> for me. As I said, I could keep right on going heavier but the
> >> >> benefits of doing so are not apparent to me.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >if DEADLIFTING 275 is a "strain" to you mike, maybe you are in the
wrong
> >> >endeavor
> >> >
> >> >that's a mildly straining power clean to somebody who has been
training
> >as
> >> >long as you
> >> >
> >> >whit
> >>
> >> You're echoing whit. It is not a lot of weight in certain contexts
> >> but to put it in perspective I believe it is pretty well to the right
> >> of the middle of the bell curve for the whole male population.
> >>
> >> Also, you are assuming that my goal is to lift ever more weight--it
> >> isn't. I've made it clear that I find that particular hobby to be so
> >> whacked that I believe it is a form of insanity.
> >>
> >
> >my goal is at least as much physique enhancement as it is to lift bigger
> >weights and get stronger
> >
> >and lifting progressively bigger weights has made my physique
progressively
> >better
> >
> >what is your goal?
> >
> >whit
>
> To have fun. Weight training and running are, for me, forms of
> recreation. I've done the whole "goal-oriented" thing and in looking
> back it was a real drag.
>

i like being handsome and having perky chesticles.

that's a good goal.

and being stronger and fitter than the perps i bust is good too

whit

>
> --
> The pain is pretty overwhelming, prolly
> comparable only to childbirth or kidney stones.
> --Brian L.

Lee Michaels
November 29th 04, 02:47 AM
"Idie" > wrote
>
> i like being handsome and having perky chesticles.
>
> that's a good goal.
>
> and being stronger and fitter than the perps i bust is good too
>
> whit
>
But, most importantly, Whitney wants perkier chesticles than the perps he
busts.

John M. Williams
November 29th 04, 03:21 AM
Usenet Posting > wrote:
> Adam Fahy > wrote:
>>Usenet Posting wrote:
>>
>>>>>As I said, I could keep right on going heavier but the
>>>>>benefits of doing so are not apparent to me.
>>
>><snip my comments, where I suggested you were in a rut, training-wise/>
>>
>>> Well, I don't think you read my post or if you did you skimmed. The
>>> last sentence is of critical import so do focus there.
>>
>>Basically what you're telling me is that you don't want to train
>>seriously, or get stronger. You're saying you're applying a limit point
>>to how strong you wish to get, because you fear you'll hurt yourself if
>>you try to get stronger. This is a completely fabricated justification
>>for being in a rut. Just ask, why would you hurt yourself? Because you
>>would be pushing too far against some strength/form limit point? Well,
>>why not fix that problem? Because you don't want to get too strong
>>anyway. Ok, so this is a manufactured situation with circular reasoning
>>to justify it. If you're afraid of hurting your back, why not take the
>>time to make sure your form is perfect--cut back on weight, do singles,
>>train more frequently, do supplemental exercises to strengthen your
>>hips, your core/lower-back? Because if you "had to do that" you
>>wouldn't be having fun, which you define as doing some meaningless
>>10-rep-set scheme? But why? It seems as though you're doing the
>>motions for the sake of doing the motions, not to actually address any
>>strength imbalances/weaknesses you have. <shrug> To each their own,
>>but at least admit you're in a rut; you may find some other activity
>>more fun.
>
>And who are you to tell me what my goals ought to be? Respectfully,
>go **** yourself.

It's good to see a "progressive" like yourself practicing what you
preach and personally extolling the benefits of mediocrity.

Idie
November 29th 04, 06:12 AM
Usenet Posting > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 00:54:44 GMT, "Idie" > wrote:
>
> >
> >Usenet Posting > wrote in message
> ...
> >> On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 20:12:55 GMT, "Idie" > wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >Usenet Posting > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> >> On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 04:59:35 GMT, "Idie" > wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Usenet Posting > wrote in message
> >> >> ...
> >> >> >> On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 17:26:49 -0500, "Steve Freides"
> >> >> >> > wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >When you are "very strong," lifting the manner you do, come tell
us
> >> >> >> >about it. Unless you weigh 114 lbs., 275 just isn't what I'd
call
> >a
> >> >> >> >strong deadlift.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> You're replying to the wrong guy. I think. Anyways, I cycle up
to
> >> >> >> 275 lbs because it is a strain at that point but still within
> >reason,
> >> >> >> for me. As I said, I could keep right on going heavier but the
> >> >> >> benefits of doing so are not apparent to me.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >if DEADLIFTING 275 is a "strain" to you mike, maybe you are in the
> >wrong
> >> >> >endeavor
> >> >> >
> >> >> >that's a mildly straining power clean to somebody who has been
> >training
> >> >as
> >> >> >long as you
> >> >> >
> >> >> >whit
> >> >>
> >> >> You're echoing whit. It is not a lot of weight in certain contexts
> >> >> but to put it in perspective I believe it is pretty well to the
right
> >> >> of the middle of the bell curve for the whole male population.
> >> >>
> >> >> Also, you are assuming that my goal is to lift ever more weight--it
> >> >> isn't. I've made it clear that I find that particular hobby to be
so
> >> >> whacked that I believe it is a form of insanity.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >my goal is at least as much physique enhancement as it is to lift
bigger
> >> >weights and get stronger
> >> >
> >> >and lifting progressively bigger weights has made my physique
> >progressively
> >> >better
> >> >
> >> >what is your goal?
> >> >
> >> >whit
> >>
> >> To have fun. Weight training and running are, for me, forms of
> >> recreation. I've done the whole "goal-oriented" thing and in looking
> >> back it was a real drag.
> >>
> >
> >i like being handsome and having perky chesticles.
> >
>
> A 5,000lb squat can't make you handsome.
>

i don't want a 5,000 lb squat. i do have good legs

i get them from squatting, leg press, sprinting, leg extensions, cleans,
etc.

my legs are better than when i did 5k's and surfing, for instance.

> >that's a good goal.
> >
> >and being stronger and fitter than the perps i bust is good too
> >
>
> haha, how well will a crippling injury help you run down perps?

what makes you think i'm going to get a crippling injury.

the worst injury i've gotten to my legs was from a foot pursuit

the dr. said if i had not been a weightlifter (with the concomitant strength
and bone density increases from lifting) then i would have BROKEN my leg
(from a 11 ft drop on to concrete) vs. the mere month hiatus with a bone
bruise

so, its PREVENTED injury, mike

do you understand how weighttraining can help PREVENT injury for people who
have dangerous physically demanding jobs, mike?


Not
> that I'm wishing it on you man, but look around you in here. It is
> like a museum on injured people on a quest for that next .25kg
>

and i agree that some people push too far, for no good reason. competitive
athletics IS a good reason, in my mind, but that's purely opinion. there is
no doubt however that training in ANY sport for competitive success means a
sacrifice of safety and health for performance (to reach elite levels). i
agree. for example, training for a marathon (i've done two) is not about
health. some health is sacrificed for performance.

it does not therefore follow that consistently lifting to get stronger is
not a benefit, and gives more benefits than costs, especially to somebody in
my profession, as well as the benefits i get in self confidence, appearance,
etc.

it makes me: better at my job, and less prone to injury or death,

whit

>
> --
> The pain is pretty overwhelming, prolly
> comparable only to childbirth or kidney stones.
> --Brian L.

Proton Soup
November 29th 04, 06:16 AM
On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 05:47:11 GMT, Usenet Posting
> wrote:

>On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 23:56:59 GMT, Adam Fahy >
>wrote:
>
>>Usenet Posting wrote:
>>> On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 20:19:30 GMT, Adam Fahy >
>>> wrote:
>>
>>>>Basically what you're telling me is that you don't want to train
>>>>seriously, or get stronger. You're saying you're applying a limit point
>>>>to how strong you wish to get, because you fear you'll hurt yourself if
>>>>you try to get stronger. This is a completely fabricated justification
>>>>for being in a rut. Just ask, why would you hurt yourself? Because you
>>>>would be pushing too far against some strength/form limit point? Well,
>>>>why not fix that problem? Because you don't want to get too strong
>>>>anyway. Ok, so this is a manufactured situation with circular reasoning
>>>>to justify it. If you're afraid of hurting your back, why not take the
>>>>time to make sure your form is perfect--cut back on weight, do singles,
>>>>train more frequently, do supplemental exercises to strengthen your
>>>>hips, your core/lower-back? Because if you "had to do that" you
>>>>wouldn't be having fun, which you define as doing some meaningless
>>>>10-rep-set scheme? But why? It seems as though you're doing the
>>>>motions for the sake of doing the motions, not to actually address any
>>>>strength imbalances/weaknesses you have. <shrug> To each their own,
>>>>but at least admit you're in a rut; you may find some other activity
>>>>more fun.
>>
>>> And who are you to tell me what my goals ought to be?
>>
>>When did I do that again? I suggested that perhaps you're in a rut and
>
>You're evaluating performance based on an assumed goal. Namely, the
>vaguely insane one of having some need to incrementally lift more
>weight every year.
>
>I know that this is a dogma to you that is like air, it just is. I'm
>suggesting that it need not be so and that this quest is often
>self-destructive. I could go through the archives for a long list of
>people who have posted to this forum with injuries related to trying
>to lift ever-heavier weights.
>
>Try going to the gym without a goal a few times, you might even like
>it.

Do you extend this philosophy to other areas of your life, like say
thinking? Because too much thinking can be bad for you. Some people
devote their whole lives trying to achieve a beautiful mind, just
pushing and pushing to think ever more complex concepts, lifting
ever-heavier ideas, only to one day fail to maintain perfect form and
ending up with a debilitating, career-ending injury.

-----------
Proton Soup

"Thanks for noticing that I didn't actually say anything." - Mike Lane

Robert Schuh
November 29th 04, 07:07 AM
Usenet Posting wrote:

> On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 20:19:30 GMT, Adam Fahy >
> wrote:
>
> >Usenet Posting wrote:
> >
> >>>>As I said, I could keep right on going heavier but the
> >>>>benefits of doing so are not apparent to me.
> >
> ><snip my comments, where I suggested you were in a rut, training-wise/>
> >
> >
> >> Well, I don't think you read my post or if you did you skimmed. The
> >> last sentence is of critical import so do focus there.
> >
> >Basically what you're telling me is that you don't want to train
> >seriously, or get stronger. You're saying you're applying a limit point
> >to how strong you wish to get, because you fear you'll hurt yourself if
> >you try to get stronger. This is a completely fabricated justification
> >for being in a rut. Just ask, why would you hurt yourself? Because you
> >would be pushing too far against some strength/form limit point? Well,
> >why not fix that problem? Because you don't want to get too strong
> >anyway. Ok, so this is a manufactured situation with circular reasoning
> >to justify it. If you're afraid of hurting your back, why not take the
> >time to make sure your form is perfect--cut back on weight, do singles,
> >train more frequently, do supplemental exercises to strengthen your
> >hips, your core/lower-back? Because if you "had to do that" you
> >wouldn't be having fun, which you define as doing some meaningless
> >10-rep-set scheme? But why? It seems as though you're doing the
> >motions for the sake of doing the motions, not to actually address any
> >strength imbalances/weaknesses you have. <shrug> To each their own,
> >but at least admit you're in a rut; you may find some other activity
> >more fun.
> >
> >
> >-Adam
>
> And who are you to tell me what my goals ought to be? Respectfully,
> go **** yourself.
>
> --
> The pain is pretty overwhelming, prolly
> comparable only to childbirth or kidney stones.
> --Brian L.

I just wanted to let anyone know who may not know who this guy is just what
they are dealing with. Mike Lane is a pathetic human being with no life. He
is extremely limited in both the physical and intellectual genetics
categories. He tried to be a bodybuilder, took copious amounts of drugs and
still looked like ass. Since then, he has changed his screen name several
hundred times to circumvent people's kill files and "tried" to pass himself
off as an "authority" here in MFW. THE only thing Mike is an "authority" on
is how to take sad naked photos of one's self, obsess with certain past MFW
people and to be a general pathetic ****. I suggest finding out all of Mike's
aliases and kill filing all of them.


--
Robert Schuh
"Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche

Mick R.
November 29th 04, 07:45 AM
"Proton Soup" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 05:47:11 GMT, Usenet Posting
> > wrote:
>
> >On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 23:56:59 GMT, Adam Fahy >
> >wrote:
> >
> >>Usenet Posting wrote:
> >>> On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 20:19:30 GMT, Adam Fahy >
> >>> wrote:
> >>
> >>>>Basically what you're telling me is that you don't want to train
> >>>>seriously, or get stronger. You're saying you're applying a limit
point
> >>>>to how strong you wish to get, because you fear you'll hurt yourself
if
> >>>>you try to get stronger. This is a completely fabricated
justification
> >>>>for being in a rut. Just ask, why would you hurt yourself? Because
you
> >>>>would be pushing too far against some strength/form limit point?
Well,
> >>>>why not fix that problem? Because you don't want to get too strong
> >>>>anyway. Ok, so this is a manufactured situation with circular
reasoning
> >>>>to justify it. If you're afraid of hurting your back, why not take
the
> >>>>time to make sure your form is perfect--cut back on weight, do
singles,
> >>>>train more frequently, do supplemental exercises to strengthen your
> >>>>hips, your core/lower-back? Because if you "had to do that" you
> >>>>wouldn't be having fun, which you define as doing some meaningless
> >>>>10-rep-set scheme? But why? It seems as though you're doing the
> >>>>motions for the sake of doing the motions, not to actually address any
> >>>>strength imbalances/weaknesses you have. <shrug> To each their own,
> >>>>but at least admit you're in a rut; you may find some other activity
> >>>>more fun.
> >>
> >>> And who are you to tell me what my goals ought to be?
> >>
> >>When did I do that again? I suggested that perhaps you're in a rut and
> >
> >You're evaluating performance based on an assumed goal. Namely, the
> >vaguely insane one of having some need to incrementally lift more
> >weight every year.
> >
> >I know that this is a dogma to you that is like air, it just is. I'm
> >suggesting that it need not be so and that this quest is often
> >self-destructive. I could go through the archives for a long list of
> >people who have posted to this forum with injuries related to trying
> >to lift ever-heavier weights.
> >
> >Try going to the gym without a goal a few times, you might even like
> >it.
>
> Do you extend this philosophy to other areas of your life, like say
> thinking? Because too much thinking can be bad for you. Some people
> devote their whole lives trying to achieve a beautiful mind, just
> pushing and pushing to think ever more complex concepts, lifting
> ever-heavier ideas, only to one day fail to maintain perfect form and
> ending up with a debilitating, career-ending injury.
>
lol
and they said this thread wouldn't be funny.


> -----------
> Proton Soup
>
> "Thanks for noticing that I didn't actually say anything." - Mike Lane

Adam Fahy
November 29th 04, 05:53 PM
Usenet Posting wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 23:56:59 GMT, Adam Fahy >
> wrote:
>
>>Usenet Posting wrote:

>>>And who are you to tell me what my goals ought to be?
>>
>>When did I do that again? I suggested that perhaps you're in a rut and
>
> You're evaluating performance based on an assumed goal. Namely, the
> vaguely insane one of having some need to incrementally lift more
> weight every year.

When did I do that again?

And who are you to tell anyone what their goals ought to be? Should you
respectfully go **** yourself?


> I know that this is a dogma to you that is like air, it just is. I'm
> suggesting that it need not be so and that this quest is often
> self-destructive.

The point is, you're begging the question. Regardless of whatever data
points to the contrary, there's no need for you to fear the supposed
"danger" of lifting heavy weights. Unless you're neurotic or foolish,
but I can't help you on those points.


> Try going to the gym without a goal a few times, you might even like
> it.

Why would I do that, when there are other more fun, more social, and
more rewarding activities I can participate in to pass the time? I like
weightlifting recreationally, but I do it as a means to an end. If you
can't find activities which are more rewarding than diddling around in
the gym with no rhyme or reason, perhaps this is another sign that you
need the professional help you cannot find on this newsgroup.


-Adam

Lee Michaels
November 29th 04, 05:58 PM
"Adam Fahy" wrote
>
> Why would I do that, when there are other more fun, more social, and
> more rewarding activities I can participate in to pass the time? I like
> weightlifting recreationally, but I do it as a means to an end. If you
> can't find activities which are more rewarding than diddling around in
> the gym with no rhyme or reason, perhaps this is another sign that you
> need the professional help you cannot find on this newsgroup.
>
>
We offer Mikey all kinds of "professional" help.

He just rejects it out of hand.

Ungrateful *******.

Slambram
November 29th 04, 06:15 PM
On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 00:07:05 -0700, Robert Schuh >
wrote:


>
>I just wanted to let anyone know who may not know who this guy is just what
>they are dealing with. Mike Lane is a pathetic human being with no life. He
>is extremely limited in both the physical and intellectual genetics
>categories. He tried to be a bodybuilder, took copious amounts of drugs and
>still looked like ass. Since then, he has changed his screen name several
>hundred times to circumvent people's kill files and "tried" to pass himself
>off as an "authority" here in MFW. THE only thing Mike is an "authority" on
>is how to take sad naked photos of one's self, obsess with certain past MFW
>people and to be a general pathetic ****. I suggest finding out all of Mike's
>aliases and kill filing all of them.

Pot, Kettle, Black.

Jason Burnell
November 29th 04, 07:58 PM
On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 23:15:23 -0600, Brian Link > wrote:

>Not very impressive, but I managed 300lbs in a trap-bar deadlift the
>other day.
>
>On the way up, I noticed I was a bit too far forward, and so jerked up
>with my back to bring my center of gravity back. I then felt a
>disturbing "crunch" in my lower back. Sort of like the sensation of
>cracking your knuckles. Not knowing what to do, I decided to finish
>the lift, which I did, and then dropped the weights.
>
>At the time I didn't feel any pain, but rather a definite "this feels
>wrong, somehow" in my lower back.
>
>I went to bed that night, and when I woke up was unable to figure out
>how to get out of bed.
>
>After sitting on my couch weeping, I decided I should see the doctor,
>who prescribed some Vicodin for me.
>
>All I have to say is that I figure I'm lucky not to have injured
>myself earlier - and I can really understand why "lower-back health"
>is such a lucrative business. The pain is pretty overwhelming, prolly
>comparable only to childbirth or kidney stones.
>
>The Vicodin takes the edge off, but there's no doubt that some little
>ligament back there is angry enough to continue to wreck my sleeping
>and waking.
>
>Hopefully it'll get better. =/
>
>BLink


Ice.
Chiropractor.
Jason Burnell
http://www.deepsquatter.com

David Cohen
November 29th 04, 08:15 PM
"Jason Burnell" > wrote
> Brian Link > wrote:
>>Not very impressive, but I managed 300lbs in a trap-bar deadlift the
>>other day.
>>
>>On the way up, I noticed I was a bit too far forward, and so jerked up
>>with my back to bring my center of gravity back. I then felt a
>>disturbing "crunch" in my lower back. Sort of like the sensation of
>>cracking your knuckles. Not knowing what to do, I decided to finish
>>the lift, which I did, and then dropped the weights.
>>
>>At the time I didn't feel any pain, but rather a definite "this feels
>>wrong, somehow" in my lower back.
>>
>>I went to bed that night, and when I woke up was unable to figure out
>>how to get out of bed.
>>
>>After sitting on my couch weeping, I decided I should see the doctor,
>>who prescribed some Vicodin for me.
>>
>>All I have to say is that I figure I'm lucky not to have injured
>>myself earlier - and I can really understand why "lower-back health"
>>is such a lucrative business. The pain is pretty overwhelming, prolly
>>comparable only to childbirth or kidney stones.
>>
>>The Vicodin takes the edge off, but there's no doubt that some little
>>ligament back there is angry enough to continue to wreck my sleeping
>>and waking.
>>
>>Hopefully it'll get better. =/
>
> Ice.
> Chiropractor.
> Jason Burnell

I can see how the first two recommendations would be helpful, but the third
one has me puzzled. Oral or topical? No operating heavy machinery? Any
sexual side effects?

David

ATP
November 29th 04, 10:12 PM
"Robert Schuh" > wrote in message
...
> Usenet Posting wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 20:19:30 GMT, Adam Fahy >
> > wrote:
> >
> > >Usenet Posting wrote:
> > >
> > >>>>As I said, I could keep right on going heavier but the
> > >>>>benefits of doing so are not apparent to me.
> > >
> > ><snip my comments, where I suggested you were in a rut, training-wise/>
> > >
> > >
> > >> Well, I don't think you read my post or if you did you skimmed. The
> > >> last sentence is of critical import so do focus there.
> > >
> > >Basically what you're telling me is that you don't want to train
> > >seriously, or get stronger. You're saying you're applying a limit
point
> > >to how strong you wish to get, because you fear you'll hurt yourself if
> > >you try to get stronger. This is a completely fabricated justification
> > >for being in a rut. Just ask, why would you hurt yourself? Because
you
> > >would be pushing too far against some strength/form limit point? Well,
> > >why not fix that problem? Because you don't want to get too strong
> > >anyway. Ok, so this is a manufactured situation with circular
reasoning
> > >to justify it. If you're afraid of hurting your back, why not take the
> > >time to make sure your form is perfect--cut back on weight, do singles,
> > >train more frequently, do supplemental exercises to strengthen your
> > >hips, your core/lower-back? Because if you "had to do that" you
> > >wouldn't be having fun, which you define as doing some meaningless
> > >10-rep-set scheme? But why? It seems as though you're doing the
> > >motions for the sake of doing the motions, not to actually address any
> > >strength imbalances/weaknesses you have. <shrug> To each their own,
> > >but at least admit you're in a rut; you may find some other activity
> > >more fun.
> > >
> > >
> > >-Adam
> >
> > And who are you to tell me what my goals ought to be? Respectfully,
> > go **** yourself.
> >
> > --
> > The pain is pretty overwhelming, prolly
> > comparable only to childbirth or kidney stones.
> > --Brian L.
>
> I just wanted to let anyone know who may not know who this guy is just
what
> they are dealing with. Mike Lane is a pathetic human being with no life.
He
> is extremely limited in both the physical and intellectual genetics
> categories. He tried to be a bodybuilder, took copious amounts of drugs
and
> still looked like ass. Since then, he has changed his screen name several
> hundred times to circumvent people's kill files and "tried" to pass
himself
> off as an "authority" here in MFW. THE only thing Mike is an "authority"
on
> is how to take sad naked photos of one's self, obsess with certain past
MFW
> people and to be a general pathetic ****. I suggest finding out all of
Mike's
> aliases and kill filing all of them.
>
>
> --
> Robert Schuh

Hi, Rob. How are the church gigs going?

ATP
November 29th 04, 10:25 PM
"Idie" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> and i agree that some people push too far, for no good reason.
competitive
> athletics IS a good reason, in my mind, but that's purely opinion. there
is
> no doubt however that training in ANY sport for competitive success means
a
> sacrifice of safety and health for performance (to reach elite levels). i
> agree. for example, training for a marathon (i've done two) is not about
> health. some health is sacrificed for performance.
>
> it does not therefore follow that consistently lifting to get stronger is
> not a benefit, and gives more benefits than costs, especially to somebody
in
> my profession, as well as the benefits i get in self confidence,
appearance,
> etc.
>
> it makes me: better at my job, and less prone to injury or death,
>
> whit
>

Agreed, although there are obviously limits to growth and diminishing
returns involved. The more specific question is whether testing one rep
maxes is of any benefit versus using heavy weights at low reps. Is there any
benefit beyond ego gratification/motivation?

Steve Freides
November 30th 04, 03:08 AM
"DZ" > wrote in message
.. .
> Proton Soup > wrote:
>> Usenet Posting > wrote:
>>>Adam Fahy > wrote:
>>>>>>Basically what you're telling me is that you don't want to train
>>>>>>seriously, or get stronger. You're saying you're applying a limit
>>>>>>point
>>>>>>to how strong you wish to get, because you fear you'll hurt
>>>>>>yourself if
>>>>>>you try to get stronger. This is a completely fabricated
>>>>>>justification
>>>>>>for being in a rut. Just ask, why would you hurt yourself?
>>>>>>Because you
>>>>>>would be pushing too far against some strength/form limit point?
>>>>>>Well,
>>>>>>why not fix that problem? Because you don't want to get too
>>>>>>strong
>>>>>>anyway. Ok, so this is a manufactured situation with circular
>>>>>>reasoning
>>>>>>to justify it. If you're afraid of hurting your back, why not
>>>>>>take the
>>>>>>time to make sure your form is perfect--cut back on weight, do
>>>>>>singles,
>>>>>>train more frequently, do supplemental exercises to strengthen
>>>>>>your
>>>>>>hips, your core/lower-back? Because if you "had to do that" you
>>>>>>wouldn't be having fun, which you define as doing some meaningless
>>>>>>10-rep-set scheme? But why? It seems as though you're doing the
>>>>>>motions for the sake of doing the motions, not to actually address
>>>>>>any
>>>>>>strength imbalances/weaknesses you have. <shrug> To each their
>>>>>>own,
>>>>>>but at least admit you're in a rut; you may find some other
>>>>>>activity
>>>>>>more fun.
>>>>
>>>>> And who are you to tell me what my goals ought to be?
>>>>
>>>>When did I do that again? I suggested that perhaps you're in a rut
>>>>and
>>>
>>>You're evaluating performance based on an assumed goal. Namely, the
>>>vaguely insane one of having some need to incrementally lift more
>>>weight every year.
>>>
>>>I know that this is a dogma to you that is like air, it just is. I'm
>>>suggesting that it need not be so and that this quest is often
>>>self-destructive. I could go through the archives for a long list of
>>>people who have posted to this forum with injuries related to trying
>>>to lift ever-heavier weights.
>>>
>>>Try going to the gym without a goal a few times, you might even like
>>>it.
>>
>> Do you extend this philosophy to other areas of your life, like say
>> thinking? Because too much thinking can be bad for you. Some people
>> devote their whole lives trying to achieve a beautiful mind, just
>> pushing and pushing to think ever more complex concepts, lifting
>> ever-heavier ideas, only to one day fail to maintain perfect form and
>> ending up with a debilitating, career-ending injury.
>
> I disagree with "Usenet Posting" on his argument about unacceptable
> risks associated with lifting heavy. Otherwise, I agree. I find the
> immediate satisfaction from a single workout totally sufficient for me
> (I also hope exercising is somewhat healthy). This is unrelated with
> lifting more or getting bigger, etc. "Progress" (whether it is
> measured by lifts, endurance, muscle circumference, etc.) doesn't
> have to be the part of the weight lifting/exercising routine or life
> style. I deliberately focus on today's workout only and imo - in the
> long run it is a better attitude - for people who don't care about
> competing. Once due to age you stop making progress in say deadlift,
> what is going to be the motivation to continue?

I expect that at least some of us will continue to find new obstacles to
climb, e.g., powerlifters taking up Olympic lifting and vice versa,
trying for a strength endurance goal, perhaps even trying body building,
maybe switching to an endurance sport, maybe highland games or strongman
competitions - there are a lifetime and half's worth of cool things to
do out there. I know I've got Olympic lifting on my list - I want to be
able to do it with my kids starting when my oldest son is high school
age in another few years. And since many sports are age classed, one
doesn't need to continue to lift heavier and heavier to continue to
compete.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com


> DZ

Blair P. Houghton
December 1st 04, 03:40 AM
Mick R. > wrote:
>"Blair P. Houghton" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> I.e., [weightlifting is] "7 times as dangerous" as either Tennis or Volleyball.
>>
>Only 7 times?
>
>I'll take those odds.
>Badminton is still more dangerous.

Only because we haven't yet removed the stigma nor
bred homophobia out of gym rats.

--Blair
"Maybe if the racquet were razor-edged..."

Blair P. Houghton
December 1st 04, 03:41 AM
Keith Hobman > wrote:
>Blair don't know much about either powerlifting or weightlifting if he
>thinks they are the same thing either. Weight training of course could
>encompass either, although it tends to be slanted towards hypertrophy.

600 lb squat in high school.

--Blair
"You stand corrected."

Blair P. Houghton
December 1st 04, 03:44 AM
Keith Hobman > wrote:
>You don't know much about statistics or science, do you?

You don't know anything about me.

I have probably forgotten more about statistics and science
than all the people reading this ever learned.

And all I did here was fail to read the column heading.

>If you add the three together (since they are all rates) you get
>
>.00263
>
>ie. About twice the incidence of injury per participation hour as
>volleyball. About half as many injuries per hour as badminton.

I.e., badminton players are twice as tough as weightlifters.

--Blair
"That where you're headed?"

Keith Hobman
December 1st 04, 03:56 AM
In article >, Blair P. Houghton
> wrote:

> Keith Hobman > wrote:
> >Blair don't know much about either powerlifting or weightlifting if he
> >thinks they are the same thing either. Weight training of course could
> >encompass either, although it tends to be slanted towards hypertrophy.
>
> 600 lb squat in high school.

Right. Show me the link to the competition.

I squatted 1200 lbs in high school myself.

Keith Hobman
December 1st 04, 04:09 AM
In article >, Blair P. Houghton
> wrote:

> Keith Hobman > wrote:
> >You don't know much about statistics or science, do you?
>
> You don't know anything about me.
>
> I have probably forgotten more about statistics and science
> than all the people reading this ever learned.
>
> And all I did here was fail to read the column heading.

I dunno Blair. I think it was grade 4 that they taught you have to add the
denominator.

But you are correct. I don't know anything about you.

Except that a search of

b houghton squat

returned no competition results.

You are invited to search

k hobman squat

on Google.

So why don't you fill us in on your accomplishments? But please - no
internet lifts.

John M. Williams
December 1st 04, 04:10 AM
Usenet Posting > wrote:

> "ATP" > wrote:
>
>>> Robert Schuh
>>
>>Hi, Rob. How are the church gigs going?
>
>Ya know things are bad for Rob when not even an MJL trash post will
>get him some kudos.

Given recent responses to your posts, it's rather redundant.

John M. Williams
December 1st 04, 04:37 AM
(Keith Hobman) wrote:

> Blair P. Houghton > wrote:
>
>> Keith Hobman > wrote:
>> >You don't know much about statistics or science, do you?
>>
>> You don't know anything about me.
>>
>> I have probably forgotten more about statistics and science
>> than all the people reading this ever learned.
>>
>> And all I did here was fail to read the column heading.
>
>I dunno Blair. I think it was grade 4 that they taught you have to add the
>denominator.
>
>But you are correct. I don't know anything about you.
>
>Except that a search of
>
>b houghton squat
>
>returned no competition results.
>
>You are invited to search
>
>k hobman squat
>
>on Google.
>
>So why don't you fill us in on your accomplishments? But please - no
>internet lifts.

<heh> Great shades of Neal Fabian!

John Hanson
December 1st 04, 04:52 AM
On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 21:56:44 -0600, (Keith Hobman)
wrote in misc.fitness.weights:

>In article >, Blair P. Houghton
> wrote:
>
>> Keith Hobman > wrote:
>> >Blair don't know much about either powerlifting or weightlifting if he
>> >thinks they are the same thing either. Weight training of course could
>> >encompass either, although it tends to be slanted towards hypertrophy.
>>
>> 600 lb squat in high school.
>
>Right. Show me the link to the competition.
>
>I squatted 1200 lbs in high school myself.

I don't like to brag but I did 1200 for a set of 6 in junior high.

Keith Hobman
December 1st 04, 05:10 AM
In article >, John Hanson
> wrote:

> On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 21:56:44 -0600, (Keith Hobman)
> wrote in misc.fitness.weights:
>
> >In article >, Blair P. Houghton
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Keith Hobman > wrote:
> >> >Blair don't know much about either powerlifting or weightlifting if he
> >> >thinks they are the same thing either. Weight training of course could
> >> >encompass either, although it tends to be slanted towards hypertrophy.
> >>
> >> 600 lb squat in high school.
> >
> >Right. Show me the link to the competition.
> >
> >I squatted 1200 lbs in high school myself.
>
> I don't like to brag but I did 1200 for a set of 6 in junior high.

Yeah, but you were using a BELT, right?

Cheater.

:^)

John Hanson
December 1st 04, 05:25 AM
On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 23:10:50 -0600, (Keith Hobman)
wrote in misc.fitness.weights:

>In article >, John Hanson
> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 21:56:44 -0600, (Keith Hobman)
>> wrote in misc.fitness.weights:
>>
>> >In article >, Blair P. Houghton
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Keith Hobman > wrote:
>> >> >Blair don't know much about either powerlifting or weightlifting if he
>> >> >thinks they are the same thing either. Weight training of course could
>> >> >encompass either, although it tends to be slanted towards hypertrophy.
>> >>
>> >> 600 lb squat in high school.
>> >
>> >Right. Show me the link to the competition.
>> >
>> >I squatted 1200 lbs in high school myself.
>>
>> I don't like to brag but I did 1200 for a set of 6 in junior high.
>
>Yeah, but you were using a BELT, right?
>
>Cheater.
>
>:^)

<bows head in shame> Uhmm, yeah.

Adam Fahy
December 1st 04, 05:49 AM
Blair P. Houghton wrote:

> I have probably forgotten more about statistics and science
> than all the people reading this ever learned.

Meaning, you remember--and therefore know--nothing.


--Adam

Will
December 1st 04, 05:55 AM
In article >,
John Hanson > wrote:

> On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 21:56:44 -0600, (Keith Hobman)
> wrote in misc.fitness.weights:
>
> >In article >, Blair P. Houghton
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Keith Hobman > wrote:
> >> >Blair don't know much about either powerlifting or weightlifting if he
> >> >thinks they are the same thing either. Weight training of course could
> >> >encompass either, although it tends to be slanted towards hypertrophy.
> >>
> >> 600 lb squat in high school.
> >
> >Right. Show me the link to the competition.
> >
> >I squatted 1200 lbs in high school myself.
>
> I don't like to brag but I did 1200 for a set of 6 in junior high.

That's nuthin'. Just this evening, I deadlifted 8080.

We're all talking ounces here, right?

John Hanson
December 1st 04, 06:01 AM
On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 21:55:43 -0800, Will >
wrote in misc.fitness.weights:

>In article >,
> John Hanson > wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 21:56:44 -0600, (Keith Hobman)
>> wrote in misc.fitness.weights:
>>
>> >In article >, Blair P. Houghton
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Keith Hobman > wrote:
>> >> >Blair don't know much about either powerlifting or weightlifting if he
>> >> >thinks they are the same thing either. Weight training of course could
>> >> >encompass either, although it tends to be slanted towards hypertrophy.
>> >>
>> >> 600 lb squat in high school.
>> >
>> >Right. Show me the link to the competition.
>> >
>> >I squatted 1200 lbs in high school myself.
>>
>> I don't like to brag but I did 1200 for a set of 6 in junior high.
>
>That's nuthin'. Just this evening, I deadlifted 8080.
>
>We're all talking ounces here, right?

Hmmm, that's 674 beers minus a little spill out of one. I predict
that Scotty and I will consume about that many beers this weekend.

Robert Schuh
December 1st 04, 06:40 AM
Usenet Posting wrote:

>On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 17:12:05 -0500, "ATP"
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>>>Robert Schuh
>>>
>>>
>>Hi, Rob. How are the church gigs going?
>>
>>
>>
>
>Ya know things are bad for Rob when not even an MJL trash post will
>get him some kudos.
>
>
>--
>The pain is pretty overwhelming, prolly
>comparable only to childbirth or kidney stones.
>--Brian L.
>
>
Yeah Mike,
Preach on. I don't need any propping up from ANYONE in MFW. The fact of
the matter is that YOU are still here, posting inane bull**** and you
still have NO life. You have tried for years to prop yourself up as some
kind of "authority" here yet you still are nothing but a sad **** with
no life, no intellect and no accomplishments. How often do you think
about killing yourself? My guess is that is an every 10 minute debate.
Butch up asshole.

--
--
Robert Schuh
"Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche

Hugh Beyer
December 1st 04, 12:37 PM
Usenet Posting > wrote in
:

>
> If it is for competition that is a different matter. I still think it
> is kinda silly if there is no reasonable possibility of prize money or
> endorsement contracts involved. SOMEthing tangible as a reward other
> than what looks to me like a pathological need to lift more weight
> simply for the sake of doing it--well past where there are any health
> benefits worth the accumulating risk.
>

Lessee, I've injured myself weightlifting, running, skiing (downhill),
skiing (xc), sailing, hiking, practicing aikido, and riding (horseback). Oh,
and playing baseball, soccer, and ultimate frisbee.

Seems to me that if injury prevention is your only goal, you're going to
live a dull life.

Hugh


--
One puppy had its dewclaws removed in the creation of this post, but for
reasons of hygene and it really doesn't hurt them at all.

Helgi Briem
December 1st 04, 01:36 PM
On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 21:56:44 -0600, (Keith Hobman)
wrote:

>> 600 lb squat in high school.
>
>Right. Show me the link to the competition.
>
>I squatted 1200 lbs in high school myself.

I did 900 lbs in the lying press myself.

--
Helgi Briem hbriem AT simnet DOT is

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?

Lee Michaels
December 1st 04, 01:37 PM
"Hugh Beyer" > wrote
>
> Lessee, I've injured myself weightlifting, running, skiing (downhill),
> skiing (xc), sailing, hiking, practicing aikido, and riding (horseback).
Oh,
> and playing baseball, soccer, and ultimate frisbee.
>
Gee Hugh, I was going to recommend the rocking chair and oatmeal.

Except you would probably injure yourself there too.

Lee Michaels
December 1st 04, 01:40 PM
"Helgi Briem" > wrote

> On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 21:56:44 -0600, (Keith Hobman)
> wrote:
>
> >> 600 lb squat in high school.
> >
> >Right. Show me the link to the competition.
> >
> >I squatted 1200 lbs in high school myself.
>
> I did 900 lbs in the lying press myself.
>
The "lieing" press??

Helgi Briem
December 1st 04, 01:47 PM
On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 13:40:12 GMT, "Lee Michaels"
> wrote:

>
>"Helgi Briem" > wrote
>
>> On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 21:56:44 -0600, (Keith Hobman)
>> wrote:
>>
>> >> 600 lb squat in high school.
>> >
>> >Right. Show me the link to the competition.
>> >
>> >I squatted 1200 lbs in high school myself.
>>
>> I did 900 lbs in the lying press myself.
>>
>The "lieing" press??

Yes, except that I spell it properly. You don't.

--
Helgi Briem hbriem AT simnet DOT is

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?

Hugh Beyer
December 1st 04, 05:40 PM
"Lee Michaels" > wrote in
news:[email protected]_s01:

> "Hugh Beyer" > wrote
>>
>> Lessee, I've injured myself weightlifting, running, skiing (downhill),
>> skiing (xc), sailing, hiking, practicing aikido, and riding
>> (horseback). Oh,
>> and playing baseball, soccer, and ultimate frisbee.
>>
> Gee Hugh, I was going to recommend the rocking chair and oatmeal.
>
> Except you would probably injure yourself there too.

:-)

Damn tricky stuff, oatmeal.

Hugh



--
One puppy had its dewclaws removed in the creation of this post, but for
reasons of hygene and it really doesn't hurt them at all.

Blair P. Houghton
December 1st 04, 06:34 PM
Will > wrote:
>In article >,
> John Hanson > wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 21:56:44 -0600, (Keith Hobman)
>> wrote in misc.fitness.weights:
>>
>> >In article >, Blair P. Houghton
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Keith Hobman > wrote:
>> >> >Blair don't know much about either powerlifting or weightlifting if he
>> >> >thinks they are the same thing either. Weight training of course could
>> >> >encompass either, although it tends to be slanted towards hypertrophy.
>> >>
>> >> 600 lb squat in high school.
>> >
>> >Right. Show me the link to the competition.
>> >
>> >I squatted 1200 lbs in high school myself.
>>
>> I don't like to brag but I did 1200 for a set of 6 in junior high.
>
>That's nuthin'. Just this evening, I deadlifted 8080.
>
>We're all talking ounces here, right?

Microchips, apparently.

--Blair
"I did a lot of things 25 years ago
that I can't do now; and vice versa."

Blair P. Houghton
December 1st 04, 06:39 PM
Adam Fahy > wrote:
>Blair P. Houghton wrote:
>
>> I have probably forgotten more about statistics and science
>> than all the people reading this ever learned.
>
>Meaning, you remember--and therefore know--nothing.

Meaning I can still kick your ass up and down the lab.

--Blair
"Within 6 sigma, of course."

Blair P. Houghton
December 1st 04, 06:49 PM
Keith Hobman > wrote:
>So why don't you fill us in on your accomplishments? But please - no
>internet lifts.

It wasn't in competition, and it wasn't recorded
(and to be honest, it wasn't all that legal, being on
a rack). Montgomery County high schools didn't even have
powerlifting as a sport. Probably still doesn't. Too bad,
so sad, you will simply have to trust me.

Except for my thighs, I'm not that huge a dude, either.
(wt. 190#; Bench in the low 200's these days, but
improving; I've only been back in the gym and on my bike
for a few of months after years of nursing my boiler.)

I do notice that there are two guys in your (our) age
class who are up to 40 lbs lighter than you who crap all
over your 277-kg lift, though:

http://www.powerlifting.ca/recsmen.html#mens%20open

Must really wind your tights into a knot in the middle of
your ass, huh.

--Blair
"Feel free to disagree, and
to work harder next time."

Adam Fahy
December 1st 04, 06:54 PM
Blair P. Houghton wrote:
> Adam Fahy > wrote:
>
>>Blair P. Houghton wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I have probably forgotten more about statistics and science
>>>than all the people reading this ever learned.
>>
>>Meaning, you remember--and therefore know--nothing.
>
>
> Meaning I can still kick your ass up and down the lab.

I once kicked 600 asses in High School. I don't think it was legal though.


-Adam

Keith Hobman
December 1st 04, 07:02 PM
In article >, John Hanson
> wrote:

> On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 21:55:43 -0800, Will >
> wrote in misc.fitness.weights:
>
> >In article >,
> > John Hanson > wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 21:56:44 -0600, (Keith Hobman)
> >> wrote in misc.fitness.weights:
> >>
> >> >In article >, Blair P. Houghton
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Keith Hobman > wrote:
> >> >> >Blair don't know much about either powerlifting or weightlifting if he
> >> >> >thinks they are the same thing either. Weight training of course could
> >> >> >encompass either, although it tends to be slanted towards hypertrophy.
> >> >>
> >> >> 600 lb squat in high school.
> >> >
> >> >Right. Show me the link to the competition.
> >> >
> >> >I squatted 1200 lbs in high school myself.
> >>
> >> I don't like to brag but I did 1200 for a set of 6 in junior high.
> >
> >That's nuthin'. Just this evening, I deadlifted 8080.
> >
> >We're all talking ounces here, right?
>
> Hmmm, that's 674 beers minus a little spill out of one. I predict
> that Scotty and I will consume about that many beers this weekend.

dayum

As long as I don't have to carry you back to the hotel.

Keith Hobman
December 1st 04, 07:11 PM
In article >, Blair P. Houghton
> wrote:

> Keith Hobman > wrote:
> >So why don't you fill us in on your accomplishments? But please - no
> >internet lifts.
>
> It wasn't in competition, and it wasn't recorded
> (and to be honest, it wasn't all that legal, being on
> a rack). Montgomery County high schools didn't even have
> powerlifting as a sport. Probably still doesn't. Too bad,
> so sad, you will simply have to trust me.
>
> Except for my thighs, I'm not that huge a dude, either.
> (wt. 190#; Bench in the low 200's these days, but
> improving; I've only been back in the gym and on my bike
> for a few of months after years of nursing my boiler.)
>
> I do notice that there are two guys in your (our) age
> class who are up to 40 lbs lighter than you who crap all
> over your 277-kg lift, though:
>
> http://www.powerlifting.ca/recsmen.html#mens%20open
>
> Must really wind your tights into a knot in the middle of
> your ass, huh.

Nah. For one thing I didn't start lifting till I was 38. For another I'm
best of friends with both of them and they are way better lifters than me.
I had the total record until recently too, but don't make much of that
since both Bruce and Ken are better than me in that too.

Not to mention Jeff Becker. And look at the the 242 class since Nichols
went into it. I'm getting my ass kicked all over the place. Becker and
Nichols are 6 years younger, but Ken Fougere is over 50 and still can do
650 pretty much anytime he wants.

OTOH - I'll whup 'em in the olympic lifts.

:^)

Powerlifting is pretty much a friendly, social sport. Which you would know
if you knew powerlifting - my point is you don't. If you knew powerlifting
you'd also know the 8" ROM power curtsy you did with 600 lbs in high
school is not a squat.

It is very rare to see a real 600 lbs squat. It is very common to see a
600 lb power curtsy.

Anyhow - my remark about stats and science was uncalled for and I do
apologize for that. It could well have been an honest mistake. But you
don't know much about powerlifting or weightlifting (the competitive
sports). If you did you'd know they are relatively safe activities.

Which was my point.

Keith Hobman
December 1st 04, 07:19 PM
In article <[email protected]>, Robert Schuh
> wrote:

> >>>
> >>Hi, Rob. How are the church gigs going?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Ya know things are bad for Rob when not even an MJL trash post will
> >get him some kudos.
> >
> >
> >--
> >The pain is pretty overwhelming, prolly
> >comparable only to childbirth or kidney stones.
> >--Brian L.
> >
> >
> Yeah Mike,
> Preach on. I don't need any propping up from ANYONE in MFW. The fact of
> the matter is that YOU are still here, posting inane bull**** and you
> still have NO life. You have tried for years to prop yourself up as some
> kind of "authority" here yet you still are nothing but a sad **** with
> no life, no intellect and no accomplishments. How often do you think
> about killing yourself? My guess is that is an every 10 minute debate.
> Butch up asshole.

Personally I keep tabs in Rob's drumming career (just internet searches,
but there is some material there) and the reality is that in spite of an
abrasive personality (or maybe it goes with the territory) it is obvious
he is an extremely talented musician.

'Church gigs' comments are so obviously bull**** I don't see why any of
his numerous admirers on MFW would feel compelled to respond.

Anyone with brains knows better.

ATP
December 1st 04, 10:43 PM
"Keith Hobman" > wrote in message
...
> In article <[email protected]>, Robert Schuh
> > wrote:
>
> > >>>
> > >>Hi, Rob. How are the church gigs going?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >Ya know things are bad for Rob when not even an MJL trash post will
> > >get him some kudos.
> > >
> > >
> > >--
> > >The pain is pretty overwhelming, prolly
> > >comparable only to childbirth or kidney stones.
> > >--Brian L.
> > >
> > >
> > Yeah Mike,
> > Preach on. I don't need any propping up from ANYONE in MFW. The fact of
> > the matter is that YOU are still here, posting inane bull**** and you
> > still have NO life. You have tried for years to prop yourself up as some
> > kind of "authority" here yet you still are nothing but a sad **** with
> > no life, no intellect and no accomplishments. How often do you think
> > about killing yourself? My guess is that is an every 10 minute debate.
> > Butch up asshole.
>
> Personally I keep tabs in Rob's drumming career (just internet searches,
> but there is some material there) and the reality is that in spite of an
> abrasive personality (or maybe it goes with the territory) it is obvious
> he is an extremely talented musician.
>
> 'Church gigs' comments are so obviously bull**** I don't see why any of
> his numerous admirers on MFW would feel compelled to respond.
>
> Anyone with brains knows better.

http://www.ravenswave.com/upcoming_gigs.html

Doesn't mean he's not talented. It is kind of ironic, though.

ATP
December 1st 04, 10:44 PM
"Usenet Posting" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 13:19:58 -0600, (Keith Hobman)
> wrote:
>
> >In article <[email protected]>, Robert Schuh
> > wrote:
> >
> >> >>>
> >> >>Hi, Rob. How are the church gigs going?
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >Ya know things are bad for Rob when not even an MJL trash post will
> >> >get him some kudos.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >--
> >> >The pain is pretty overwhelming, prolly
> >> >comparable only to childbirth or kidney stones.
> >> >--Brian L.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> Yeah Mike,
> >> Preach on. I don't need any propping up from ANYONE in MFW. The fact of
> >> the matter is that YOU are still here, posting inane bull**** and you
> >> still have NO life. You have tried for years to prop yourself up as
some
> >> kind of "authority" here yet you still are nothing but a sad **** with
> >> no life, no intellect and no accomplishments. How often do you think
> >> about killing yourself? My guess is that is an every 10 minute debate.
> >> Butch up asshole.
> >
> >Personally I keep tabs in Rob's drumming career (just internet searches,
> >but there is some material there) and the reality is that in spite of an
> >abrasive personality (or maybe it goes with the territory) it is obvious
> >he is an extremely talented musician.
> >
> >'Church gigs' comments are so obviously bull**** I don't see why any of
> >his numerous admirers on MFW would feel compelled to respond.
> >
> >Anyone with brains knows better.
>
> It is kinda funny tho. One does not post to MFW unless one gets a
> kick out of outrageous comments.
>
> Actually, I think that is true of most of usenet.
>
Outrageous?

http://www.ravenswave.com/upcoming_gigs.html

Blair P. Houghton
December 2nd 04, 01:23 AM
Adam Fahy > wrote:
>Blair P. Houghton wrote:
>> Adam Fahy > wrote:
>>
>>>Blair P. Houghton wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I have probably forgotten more about statistics and science
>>>>than all the people reading this ever learned.
>>>
>>>Meaning, you remember--and therefore know--nothing.
>>
>>
>> Meaning I can still kick your ass up and down the lab.
>
>I once kicked 600 asses in High School. I don't think it was legal though.

I'd still whup you 1-on-1 in a battle of wits.

--Blair
"And I'm not even Sicilian."

Blair P. Houghton
December 2nd 04, 01:24 AM
Keith Hobman > wrote:
>Anyhow - my remark about stats and science was uncalled for and I do
>apologize for that. It could well have been an honest mistake. But you

Accepted.

>don't know much about powerlifting or weightlifting (the competitive
>sports). If you did you'd know they are relatively safe activities.

I didn't say they were unsafe.

I was making fun of the fact that they're nominally less
safe than Volleyball or Tennis.

I didn't read the headers, or I'd have divided by 3 myself.

>Which was my point.

You didn't really have a point, you just saw a place to
make a smartass remark. Oh wait. We're on Usenet. You
mean you're not supposed to get flamed for that?

--Blair
"What Sharon Stone did in
Basic Instinct--THAT was
a power curtsy."

Pat Styles
December 2nd 04, 01:24 AM
"ATP" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Keith Hobman" > wrote in message
> ...
>> In article <[email protected]>, Robert Schuh
>> > wrote:
>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>Hi, Rob. How are the church gigs going?
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >
>> > >Ya know things are bad for Rob when not even an MJL trash post will
>> > >get him some kudos.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >--
>> > >The pain is pretty overwhelming, prolly
>> > >comparable only to childbirth or kidney stones.
>> > >--Brian L.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > Yeah Mike,
>> > Preach on. I don't need any propping up from ANYONE in MFW. The fact of
>> > the matter is that YOU are still here, posting inane bull**** and you
>> > still have NO life. You have tried for years to prop yourself up as some
>> > kind of "authority" here yet you still are nothing but a sad **** with
>> > no life, no intellect and no accomplishments. How often do you think
>> > about killing yourself? My guess is that is an every 10 minute debate.
>> > Butch up asshole.
>>
>> Personally I keep tabs in Rob's drumming career (just internet searches,
>> but there is some material there) and the reality is that in spite of an
>> abrasive personality (or maybe it goes with the territory) it is obvious
>> he is an extremely talented musician.
>>
>> 'Church gigs' comments are so obviously bull**** I don't see why any of
>> his numerous admirers on MFW would feel compelled to respond.
>>
>> Anyone with brains knows better.
>
> http://www.ravenswave.com/upcoming_gigs.html

Dang, too bad you didn't post this sooner. I might have gone up to Claremont to
hear him. Now that would have been interesting!
ps

Adam Fahy
December 2nd 04, 01:56 AM
Blair P. Houghton wrote:

> I'd still whup you 1-on-1 in a battle of wits.

Yet, you lost. And you confess I'd whip you one-on-one in a battle of
whups. Where does that leave you? Alone with your losses, I fear.


-Adam

John Hanson
December 2nd 04, 02:51 AM
On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 18:49:32 GMT, Blair P. Houghton > wrote in
misc.fitness.weights:

>Keith Hobman > wrote:
>>So why don't you fill us in on your accomplishments? But please - no
>>internet lifts.
>
>It wasn't in competition, and it wasn't recorded
>(and to be honest, it wasn't all that legal, being on
>a rack). Montgomery County high schools didn't even have
>powerlifting as a sport. Probably still doesn't. Too bad,
>so sad, you will simply have to trust me.
>
>Except for my thighs, I'm not that huge a dude, either.
>(wt. 190#; Bench in the low 200's these days, but
>improving; I've only been back in the gym and on my bike
>for a few of months after years of nursing my boiler.)
>
>I do notice that there are two guys in your (our) age
>class who are up to 40 lbs lighter than you who crap all
>over your 277-kg lift, though:
>
>http://www.powerlifting.ca/recsmen.html#mens%20open
>
>Must really wind your tights into a knot in the middle of
>your ass, huh.
>

I always look at current records set in the 80s and early 90s with
suspicion.

Art S
December 2nd 04, 04:00 AM
"Pat Styles" > wrote in message news:[email protected]
> "ATP" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Keith Hobman" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> In article <[email protected]>, Robert Schuh
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>Hi, Rob. How are the church gigs going?
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >
> >> > >Ya know things are bad for Rob when not even an MJL trash post will
> >> > >get him some kudos.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >--
> >> > >The pain is pretty overwhelming, prolly
> >> > >comparable only to childbirth or kidney stones.
> >> > >--Brian L.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > Yeah Mike,
> >> > Preach on. I don't need any propping up from ANYONE in MFW. The fact of
> >> > the matter is that YOU are still here, posting inane bull**** and you
> >> > still have NO life. You have tried for years to prop yourself up as some
> >> > kind of "authority" here yet you still are nothing but a sad **** with
> >> > no life, no intellect and no accomplishments. How often do you think
> >> > about killing yourself? My guess is that is an every 10 minute debate.
> >> > Butch up asshole.
> >>
> >> Personally I keep tabs in Rob's drumming career (just internet searches,
> >> but there is some material there) and the reality is that in spite of an
> >> abrasive personality (or maybe it goes with the territory) it is obvious
> >> he is an extremely talented musician.
> >>
> >> 'Church gigs' comments are so obviously bull**** I don't see why any of
> >> his numerous admirers on MFW would feel compelled to respond.
> >>
> >> Anyone with brains knows better.
> >
> > http://www.ravenswave.com/upcoming_gigs.html
>
> Dang, too bad you didn't post this sooner. I might have gone up to Claremont to
> hear him. Now that would have been interesting!
> ps
>
>

Looks like they will be back in Claremont on Dec. 7.

Art

Pat Styles
December 2nd 04, 04:30 AM
"Art S" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Pat Styles" > wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>> "ATP" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >
>> > "Keith Hobman" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >> In article <[email protected]>, Robert Schuh
>> >> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > >>>
>> >> > >>Hi, Rob. How are the church gigs going?
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >
>> >> > >Ya know things are bad for Rob when not even an MJL trash post will
>> >> > >get him some kudos.
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > >--
>> >> > >The pain is pretty overwhelming, prolly
>> >> > >comparable only to childbirth or kidney stones.
>> >> > >--Brian L.
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > Yeah Mike,
>> >> > Preach on. I don't need any propping up from ANYONE in MFW. The fact of
>> >> > the matter is that YOU are still here, posting inane bull**** and you
>> >> > still have NO life. You have tried for years to prop yourself up as some
>> >> > kind of "authority" here yet you still are nothing but a sad **** with
>> >> > no life, no intellect and no accomplishments. How often do you think
>> >> > about killing yourself? My guess is that is an every 10 minute debate.
>> >> > Butch up asshole.
>> >>
>> >> Personally I keep tabs in Rob's drumming career (just internet searches,
>> >> but there is some material there) and the reality is that in spite of an
>> >> abrasive personality (or maybe it goes with the territory) it is obvious
>> >> he is an extremely talented musician.
>> >>
>> >> 'Church gigs' comments are so obviously bull**** I don't see why any of
>> >> his numerous admirers on MFW would feel compelled to respond.
>> >>
>> >> Anyone with brains knows better.
>> >
>> > http://www.ravenswave.com/upcoming_gigs.html
>>
>> Dang, too bad you didn't post this sooner. I might have gone up to Claremont
>> to
>> hear him. Now that would have been interesting!
>> ps
>>
>>
>
> Looks like they will be back in Claremont on Dec. 7.
>
> Art

Thanks Art, I didn't look for another date there. Have fun in Laughlin.
ps

John HUDSON
December 2nd 04, 09:09 AM
On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 20:30:34 -0800, "Pat Styles"
> wrote:

>"Art S" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> "Pat Styles" > wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]
>>> "ATP" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>> >
>>> > "Keith Hobman" > wrote in message
>>> > ...
>>> >> In article <[email protected]>, Robert Schuh
>>> >> > wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> > >>>
>>> >> > >>Hi, Rob. How are the church gigs going?
>>> >> > >>
>>> >> > >>
>>> >> > >>
>>> >> > >
>>> >> > >Ya know things are bad for Rob when not even an MJL trash post will
>>> >> > >get him some kudos.
>>> >> > >
>>> >> > >
>>> >> > >--
>>> >> > >The pain is pretty overwhelming, prolly
>>> >> > >comparable only to childbirth or kidney stones.
>>> >> > >--Brian L.
>>> >> > >
>>> >> > >
>>> >> > Yeah Mike,
>>> >> > Preach on. I don't need any propping up from ANYONE in MFW. The fact of
>>> >> > the matter is that YOU are still here, posting inane bull**** and you
>>> >> > still have NO life. You have tried for years to prop yourself up as some
>>> >> > kind of "authority" here yet you still are nothing but a sad **** with
>>> >> > no life, no intellect and no accomplishments. How often do you think
>>> >> > about killing yourself? My guess is that is an every 10 minute debate.
>>> >> > Butch up asshole.
>>> >>
>>> >> Personally I keep tabs in Rob's drumming career (just internet searches,
>>> >> but there is some material there) and the reality is that in spite of an
>>> >> abrasive personality (or maybe it goes with the territory) it is obvious
>>> >> he is an extremely talented musician.
>>> >>
>>> >> 'Church gigs' comments are so obviously bull**** I don't see why any of
>>> >> his numerous admirers on MFW would feel compelled to respond.
>>> >>
>>> >> Anyone with brains knows better.
>>> >
>>> > http://www.ravenswave.com/upcoming_gigs.html
>>>
>>> Dang, too bad you didn't post this sooner. I might have gone up to Claremont
>>> to
>>> hear him. Now that would have been interesting!
>>> ps
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Looks like they will be back in Claremont on Dec. 7.
>>
>> Art
>
>Thanks Art, I didn't look for another date there. Have fun in Laughlin.

Why, have you baled out Styles?

Who ruffled your feathers? ;o)

Mick R.
December 2nd 04, 09:50 AM
"Blair P. Houghton" > wrote in message
...
> Adam Fahy > wrote:
> >Blair P. Houghton wrote:
> >> Adam Fahy > wrote:
> >>
> >>>Blair P. Houghton wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>I have probably forgotten more about statistics and science
> >>>>than all the people reading this ever learned.
> >>>
> >>>Meaning, you remember--and therefore know--nothing.
> >>
> >>
> >> Meaning I can still kick your ass up and down the lab.
> >
> >I once kicked 600 asses in High School. I don't think it was legal
though.
>
> I'd still whup you 1-on-1 in a battle of wits.
>
> --Blair
> "And I'm not even Sicilian."

Hmmm, death WAS on the line and he still lost.

Pat Styles
December 2nd 04, 03:23 PM
"Mick R." > wrote in message
.. .
>
> "Blair P. Houghton" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Adam Fahy > wrote:
>> >Blair P. Houghton wrote:
>> >> Adam Fahy > wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>Blair P. Houghton wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>>I have probably forgotten more about statistics and science
>> >>>>than all the people reading this ever learned.
>> >>>
>> >>>Meaning, you remember--and therefore know--nothing.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Meaning I can still kick your ass up and down the lab.
>> >
>> >I once kicked 600 asses in High School. I don't think it was legal
> though.
>>
>> I'd still whup you 1-on-1 in a battle of wits.
>>
>> --Blair
>> "And I'm not even Sicilian."
>
> Hmmm, death WAS on the line and he still lost.

Iocaine?
ps

Mick R.
December 2nd 04, 06:16 PM
"Pat Styles" > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> "Mick R." > wrote in message
> .. .
> >
> > "Blair P. Houghton" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> Adam Fahy > wrote:
> >> >Blair P. Houghton wrote:
> >> >> Adam Fahy > wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>>Blair P. Houghton wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>>I have probably forgotten more about statistics and science
> >> >>>>than all the people reading this ever learned.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>Meaning, you remember--and therefore know--nothing.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Meaning I can still kick your ass up and down the lab.
> >> >
> >> >I once kicked 600 asses in High School. I don't think it was legal
> > though.
> >>
> >> I'd still whup you 1-on-1 in a battle of wits.
> >>
> >> --Blair
> >> "And I'm not even Sicilian."
> >
> > Hmmm, death WAS on the line and he still lost.
>
> Iocaine?
> ps
>
Which, as well all know, is from Australia.

>

Pat Styles
December 3rd 04, 05:40 AM
"Mick R." > wrote in message
.. .
>
> "Pat Styles" > wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>> "Mick R." > wrote in message
>> .. .
>> >
>> > "Blair P. Houghton" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >> Adam Fahy > wrote:
>> >> >Blair P. Houghton wrote:
>> >> >> Adam Fahy > wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>Blair P. Houghton wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>>I have probably forgotten more about statistics and science
>> >> >>>>than all the people reading this ever learned.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>Meaning, you remember--and therefore know--nothing.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Meaning I can still kick your ass up and down the lab.
>> >> >
>> >> >I once kicked 600 asses in High School. I don't think it was legal
>> > though.
>> >>
>> >> I'd still whup you 1-on-1 in a battle of wits.
>> >>
>> >> --Blair
>> >> "And I'm not even Sicilian."
>> >
>> > Hmmm, death WAS on the line and he still lost.
>>
>> Iocaine?
>> ps
>>
> Which, as well all know, is from Australia.

Inconceivable.
ps

Axel of the North!
December 4th 04, 04:02 AM
On 1 Dec 2004 17:40:01 GMT, Hugh Beyer > wrote:

>"Lee Michaels" > wrote in
>news:[email protected]_s01:
>
>> "Hugh Beyer" > wrote
>>>
>>> Lessee, I've injured myself weightlifting, running, skiing (downhill),
>>> skiing (xc), sailing, hiking, practicing aikido, and riding
>>> (horseback). Oh,
>>> and playing baseball, soccer, and ultimate frisbee.
>>>
>> Gee Hugh, I was going to recommend the rocking chair and oatmeal.
>>
>> Except you would probably injure yourself there too.
>
>:-)
>
>Damn tricky stuff, oatmeal.
>
> Hugh

yeah, though it's okay for me i find my bowels still get bloated on
them, so i tend to stay away for months at a time without missing it.

Axel of the North!
December 4th 04, 05:22 AM
On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 23:40:08 -0700, Robert Schuh >
wrote:

>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
[snipsnip]
[WTF is this crap?]
>Usenet Posting wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 17:12:05 -0500, "ATP"
> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>Robert Schuh
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Hi, Rob. How are the church gigs going?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Ya know things are bad for Rob when not even an MJL trash post will
>>get him some kudos.
>>
>>
>Yeah Mike,
>Preach on. I don't need any propping up from ANYONE in MFW. The fact of
>the matter is that YOU are still here, posting inane bull**** and you
>still have NO life. You have tried for years to prop yourself up as some
>kind of "authority" here yet you still are nothing but a sad **** with
>no life, no intellect and no accomplishments. How often do you think
>about killing yourself? My guess is that is an every 10 minute debate.
>Butch up asshole.

> </pre>
></blockquote>
>Yeah Mike,<br>
>Preach on. I don't need any propping up from ANYONE in MFW. The fact of
>the matter is that YOU are still here, posting inane bull**** and you
>still have NO life. You have tried for years to prop yourself up as
>some kind of "authority" here yet you still are nothing but a sad ****
>with no life, no intellect and no accomplishments. How often do you
>think about killing yourself? My guess is that is an every 10 minute
>debate. Butch up asshole.<br>
><br>
><pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
>--
>Robert Schuh
>"Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
> intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
> the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
> the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
> - Nietzsche
>
></pre>
></body>
></html>
>
>--------------040805070105020707090807--

yeah, but, rob, the most important question remains: do you still
swallow cum?

cuz back in 10/21/03 that was a real hot topic!

Blair P. Houghton
December 5th 04, 03:08 AM
Adam Fahy > wrote:
>Blair P. Houghton wrote:
>
>> I'd still whup you 1-on-1 in a battle of wits.
>
>Yet, you lost.

Nope.

>And you confess I'd whip you one-on-one in a battle of
>whups.

Doubt it.

>Where does that leave you? Alone with your losses, I fear.

Keep pretending.

--Blair
"It's all you got."

Blair P. Houghton
December 5th 04, 03:09 AM
Pat Styles > wrote:
>"Mick R." > wrote in message
.. .
>>
>> "Pat Styles" > wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]
>>> "Mick R." > wrote in message
>>> .. .
>>> >
>>> > "Blair P. Houghton" > wrote in message
>>> > ...
>>> >> Adam Fahy > wrote:
>>> >> >Blair P. Houghton wrote:
>>> >> >> Adam Fahy > wrote:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>>Blair P. Houghton wrote:
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>>I have probably forgotten more about statistics and science
>>> >> >>>>than all the people reading this ever learned.
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>Meaning, you remember--and therefore know--nothing.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Meaning I can still kick your ass up and down the lab.
>>> >> >
>>> >> >I once kicked 600 asses in High School. I don't think it was legal
>>> > though.
>>> >>
>>> >> I'd still whup you 1-on-1 in a battle of wits.
>>> >>
>>> >> --Blair
>>> >> "And I'm not even Sicilian."
>>> >
>>> > Hmmm, death WAS on the line and he still lost.
>>>
>>> Iocaine?
>>> ps
>>>
>> Which, as well all know, is from Australia.
>
>Inconceivable.

You keep on using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

--Blair
"No, my name is Blair."

Mick R.
December 5th 04, 03:51 AM
"Blair P. Houghton" > wrote in message
...
> Pat Styles > wrote:
> >"Mick R." > wrote in message
> .. .
> >>
> >> "Pat Styles" > wrote in message
> >> news:[email protected]
> >>> "Mick R." > wrote in message
> >>> .. .
> >>> >
> >>> > "Blair P. Houghton" > wrote in message
> >>> > ...
> >>> >> Adam Fahy > wrote:
> >>> >> >Blair P. Houghton wrote:
> >>> >> >> Adam Fahy > wrote:
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >>>Blair P. Houghton wrote:
> >>> >> >>>
> >>> >> >>>
> >>> >> >>>>I have probably forgotten more about statistics and science
> >>> >> >>>>than all the people reading this ever learned.
> >>> >> >>>
> >>> >> >>>Meaning, you remember--and therefore know--nothing.
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >> Meaning I can still kick your ass up and down the lab.
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> >I once kicked 600 asses in High School. I don't think it was
legal
> >>> > though.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> I'd still whup you 1-on-1 in a battle of wits.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> --Blair
> >>> >> "And I'm not even Sicilian."
> >>> >
> >>> > Hmmm, death WAS on the line and he still lost.
> >>>
> >>> Iocaine?
> >>> ps
> >>>
> >> Which, as well all know, is from Australia.
> >
> >Inconceivable.
>
> You keep on using that word. I do not think it means what you think it
means.
>
You don't have six fingers on your right hand do you?

> --Blair
> "No, my name is Blair."

Robert Schuh
December 5th 04, 09:55 PM
Keith Hobman wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, Robert Schuh
> wrote:
>
>
>
>>>>Hi, Rob. How are the church gigs going?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Ya know things are bad for Rob when not even an MJL trash post will
>>>get him some kudos.
>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>The pain is pretty overwhelming, prolly
>>>comparable only to childbirth or kidney stones.
>>>--Brian L.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Yeah Mike,
>>Preach on. I don't need any propping up from ANYONE in MFW. The fact of
>>the matter is that YOU are still here, posting inane bull**** and you
>>still have NO life. You have tried for years to prop yourself up as some
>>kind of "authority" here yet you still are nothing but a sad **** with
>>no life, no intellect and no accomplishments. How often do you think
>>about killing yourself? My guess is that is an every 10 minute debate.
>>Butch up asshole.
>>
>>
>
>Personally I keep tabs in Rob's drumming career (just internet searches,
>but there is some material there) and the reality is that in spite of an
>abrasive personality (or maybe it goes with the territory) it is obvious
>he is an extremely talented musician.
>
>'Church gigs' comments are so obviously bull**** I don't see why any of
>his numerous admirers on MFW would feel compelled to respond.
>
>Anyone with brains knows better.
>
>
Keith,
We actually do some gigs in churches, but we get paid our standard fee
no matter where we play. As long as I can play creative music and get
paid for it, I will play most anyplace. :-) Let's face it, Lane and this
other clown have been obsessing over me for years. It must me a horrible
fate to have to worry about someone else all the time. ;-)

Rob

--
--
Robert Schuh
"Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche