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Lurker
November 29th 04, 05:55 PM
Sorry to throw a fitness related question in to the fray, but I am a bit
confused about BMR.

I have done a some reading, and checked with some of the sites that have
automagical calculators for you. I get around a 600kcal/day swing
depending on which method I use. When reading sites and groups, I have
seen that people can lose bodyfat with anywhere from a 12kcal/lb of body
mass ratio down. When I reverse math one of the sites, with an
automagical calculator, it is giving me 8.5kcal/lb bodymass. I do spend
all day sitting in front of a computer, and the only real exercise I get
is at the gym. But, this seems a little low to me.

What *is* the definitive with this? Is 11kcal/lb bodymass low enough to
lose if one is doing 2.5 miles of elliptical running 4x a week and
lifting a full body routine the other 3?

The full body routine is my first attempt at HST. I am in the second
week and doing a single set of each exercise. These are the lifts I am
using in this order.

Squat
Mil. Press
Shrugs
Bench Press
Rom. DL's
Chin Ups (assisted obviously)
Lat Pull Downs
DB Rows
Tris
Bis
Standing Calves
Abs

I am not following the HST principles on the chin up as I can not do 15
with even the most assistance available on the machine. My thought there
is that when I can do 15 I will reduce the assistance by 20lbs and start
back at 10 reps working my way to 15. I am hoping to do this until I can
quit using assitance. Which, I realize, is a lot of fat loss and time away.

One other question. How does one go about figuring the # of cals burned
during a weight lifting session. I am going by the confuser on the
elliptical machine and figuring 500 for my 2.5 miles, but how do I know
how many I burn lifting? It currently takes me about 40 minutes to work
through that routine.
--
Lurker

300_30%_31_yo/???_??%/245_15%_32_yo
Miracle of Medicine
http://jamesrobert.us

gman99
November 29th 04, 06:20 PM
Lurker > wrote:
> Sorry to throw a fitness related question in to the fray, but I am a bit
> confused about BMR.
>
> I have done a some reading, and checked with some of the sites that have
> automagical calculators for you. I get around a 600kcal/day swing
> depending on which method I use. When reading sites and groups, I have
> seen that people can lose bodyfat with anywhere from a 12kcal/lb of body
> mass ratio down. When I reverse math one of the sites, with an
> automagical calculator, it is giving me 8.5kcal/lb bodymass. I do spend
> all day sitting in front of a computer, and the only real exercise I get
> is at the gym. But, this seems a little low to me.

Typical BMR is roughly 10 cal/lb...that's just to keep your body
functioning...you then have to add back in requirements for activity which
could be anywhere from 2 to 10 cal/lb...add to that the fact we're all
different and you have might have some trouble nailing down an exact
figure.

gman99
November 29th 04, 06:23 PM
PS...

> Chin Ups (assisted obviously)
> Lat Pull Downs
> DB Rows

These are all lat exercises...really only need to do one.

> Tris

What exercise ??

> Bis

What exercise ??

If you're doing HST you should mix it up a bit as to what movements you do.

Lurker
November 29th 04, 06:38 PM
gman99 wrote:

> PS...
>
>
>>Chin Ups (assisted obviously)
>>Lat Pull Downs
>>DB Rows
>
>
> These are all lat exercises...really only need to do one.
>
Even if my lats absolutely suck right now?

>
>>Tris
>
>
standing cable push downs with the ropes.
> What exercise ??
>
>
>>Bis
>
>
standing cable hammertype curls with the ropes.
> What exercise ??

and, no I am not swaying my body to help in the cable exercises. I make
sure to watch in the mirror and don't count reps with too much body
movement.

>
> If you're doing HST you should mix it up a bit as to what movements you do.

How often? You mean which lifts I use to stress a muscle group, right?
Like trading db presses, or cable crossovers, for bb bench presses?


--
Lurker

300_30%_31yo/???_??%/245_15%_32yo
Miracle of Medicine
http://jamesrobert.us

gman99
November 29th 04, 07:28 PM
> >
> Even if my lats absolutely suck right now?

If you're following the HST program then more isn't necessarily
better...right ?
>
>
> How often? You mean which lifts I use to stress a muscle group, right?
> Like trading db presses, or cable crossovers, for bb bench presses?

Although I'm not following HST I started an HST like program about 6 months
ago...I do a different exercise each day...

Tue

dumbbell bicep curls
tricep pushdowns
lat pulldowns (underhand)
shoulder press
flat BP
shrugs

Thur

preacher curls
kickbacks
row
side lateral raises
incline dumbell press
upright rows

Sat/Sun (one or the other)

barbell curls
tricep extenstions
overhand pulldown
front later raises
pec dec or dumbell flys
shrugs

Before you say anything..I don't work my legs other than a lot of cycling
and stair climbing...I do a fair bit of cardio.

Lurker
November 29th 04, 08:00 PM
gman99 wrote:

>>Even if my lats absolutely suck right now?
>
>
> If you're following the HST program then more isn't necessarily
> better...right ?

No, but the different exercises all seem to work different areas of the
lats. Maybe I am imagining it, maybe I am doing them wrong. I think that
I will keep all three for this first run at HST and then drop to one for
the next go at it.
>
>>
>>How often? You mean which lifts I use to stress a muscle group, right?
>>Like trading db presses, or cable crossovers, for bb bench presses?
>
>
> Although I'm not following HST I started an HST like program about 6 months
> ago...I do a different exercise each day...
>
> Tue
>
> dumbbell bicep curls
> tricep pushdowns
> lat pulldowns (underhand)
> shoulder press
> flat BP
> shrugs
>
> Thur
>
> preacher curls
> kickbacks <----------------------------------------Really?
> row
> side lateral raises
> incline dumbell press
> upright rows
>
> Sat/Sun (one or the other)
>
> barbell curls
> tricep extenstions
> overhand pulldown
> front later raises
> pec dec or dumbell flys
> shrugs
>
> Before you say anything..I don't work my legs other than a lot of cycling
> and stair climbing...I do a fair bit of cardio.

Everyone has his own reason for working out and his own goals. I could
honestly care less if you are working your legs or not. They are *your*
legs.

Thanks for the input.

--
Lurker

300_30%_31yo/???_??%/245_15%_32yo
Miracle of Medicine
http://jamesrobert.us

Tony
November 29th 04, 11:43 PM
On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 09:55:12 -0800, Lurker
> wrote:

>Sorry to throw a fitness related question in to the fray, but I am a bit
>confused about BMR.
>
>I have done a some reading, and checked with some of the sites that have
>automagical calculators for you. I get around a 600kcal/day swing
>depending on which method I use. When reading sites and groups, I have
>seen that people can lose bodyfat with anywhere from a 12kcal/lb of body
>mass ratio down. When I reverse math one of the sites, with an
>automagical calculator, it is giving me 8.5kcal/lb bodymass. I do spend
>all day sitting in front of a computer, and the only real exercise I get
>is at the gym. But, this seems a little low to me.
>
>What *is* the definitive with this? Is 11kcal/lb bodymass low enough to
>lose if one is doing 2.5 miles of elliptical running 4x a week and
>lifting a full body routine the other 3?

The calculators should be used as estimates and starting points only.
They don't account for individual differences despite some of them using
modifiers for various activity levels. You'll have to adjust based on
YOUR results. I wonder about the people (if any) they studied to arrive
at the formulas. I wonder about those definitions. What's considered
'active' and 'very active', anyway?

IME, the one I used most was at exrx and it's low by about 600 calories
for me. (I maintain weight at around 3500 cal. at 185/188 lbs. That's
about 19x bodyweight. Other than 6 days/week of weights, I spend all day
either in a car or behind a desk too. Weekends are different though but
I still wouldn't say I was 'very active'.

fj
November 30th 04, 12:14 AM
"gman99" > wrote in message
...
> > >
> > Even if my lats absolutely suck right now?
>
> If you're following the HST program then more isn't necessarily
> better...right ?
> >
> >
> > How often? You mean which lifts I use to stress a muscle group, right?
> > Like trading db presses, or cable crossovers, for bb bench presses?
>
> Although I'm not following HST I started an HST like program about 6
months
> ago...I do a different exercise each day...
>
> Tue
>
> dumbbell bicep curls
> tricep pushdowns
> lat pulldowns (underhand)
> shoulder press
> flat BP
> shrugs
>
> Thur
>
> preacher curls
> kickbacks
> row
> side lateral raises
> incline dumbell press
> upright rows
>
> Sat/Sun (one or the other)
>
> barbell curls
> tricep extenstions
> overhand pulldown
> front later raises
> pec dec or dumbell flys
> shrugs
>
> Before you say anything..I don't work my legs other than a lot of cycling
> and stair climbing...I do a fair bit of cardio.


It will be extemely difficult to keep track of the weight increments, isn't
it?

Lurker
November 30th 04, 12:18 AM
fj wrote:

> "gman99" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>>Even if my lats absolutely suck right now?
>>
>>If you're following the HST program then more isn't necessarily
>>better...right ?
>>
>>>
>>>How often? You mean which lifts I use to stress a muscle group, right?
>>>Like trading db presses, or cable crossovers, for bb bench presses?
>>
>>Although I'm not following HST I started an HST like program about 6
>
> months
>
>>ago...I do a different exercise each day...
>>
>>Tue
>>
>>dumbbell bicep curls
>>tricep pushdowns
>>lat pulldowns (underhand)
>>shoulder press
>>flat BP
>>shrugs
>>
>>Thur
>>
>>preacher curls
>>kickbacks
>>row
>>side lateral raises
>>incline dumbell press
>>upright rows
>>
>>Sat/Sun (one or the other)
>>
>>barbell curls
>>tricep extenstions
>>overhand pulldown
>>front later raises
>>pec dec or dumbell flys
>>shrugs
>>
>>Before you say anything..I don't work my legs other than a lot of cycling
>>and stair climbing...I do a fair bit of cardio.
>
>
>
> It will be extemely difficult to keep track of the weight increments, isn't
> it?
>
>
I was wondering the same kind of thing. Wouldn't you have to find your
15, 10, 5, etc. rep maxes on all the exercises you were going to use
before starting and then map out where you should be on any given
workout day for all exercises ahead of time in order to pick and choose
and mix and match exercises?

Not saying that mixing exercises isn't a good thing, just wondering
about the amount of head work involved for doing it with HST.

--
Lurker

300_30%_31yo/???_??%/245_15%_32yo
Miracle of Medicine
http://jamesrobert.us

gman99
November 30th 04, 03:07 PM
"fj" > wrote:
> "gman99" > wrote in message
> ...
> > > >
> > > Even if my lats absolutely suck right now?
> >
> > If you're following the HST program then more isn't necessarily
> > better...right ?
> > >
> > >
> > > How often? You mean which lifts I use to stress a muscle group,
> > > right? Like trading db presses, or cable crossovers, for bb bench
> > > presses?
> >
> > Although I'm not following HST I started an HST like program about 6
> months
> > ago...I do a different exercise each day...
> >
> > Tue
> >
> > dumbbell bicep curls
> > tricep pushdowns
> > lat pulldowns (underhand)
> > shoulder press
> > flat BP
> > shrugs
> >
> > Thur
> >
> > preacher curls
> > kickbacks
> > row
> > side lateral raises
> > incline dumbell press
> > upright rows
> >
> > Sat/Sun (one or the other)
> >
> > barbell curls
> > tricep extenstions
> > overhand pulldown
> > front later raises
> > pec dec or dumbell flys
> > shrugs
> >
> > Before you say anything..I don't work my legs other than a lot of
> > cycling and stair climbing...I do a fair bit of cardio.
>
> It will be extemely difficult to keep track of the weight increments,
> isn't it?

Take a note pad and record if you want...I see a lot of people doing it.
I'm not doing a strict HST where I increase the weight with each movement.
You could switch the exercise each week...when you progess to fewer sets...

Hugh Beyer
December 3rd 04, 03:20 AM
(gman99) wrote in
:

> "fj" > wrote:
>> "gman99" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > > >
>> > > Even if my lats absolutely suck right now?
>> >
>> > If you're following the HST program then more isn't necessarily
>> > better...right ?
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > How often? You mean which lifts I use to stress a muscle group,
>> > > right? Like trading db presses, or cable crossovers, for bb bench
>> > > presses?
>> >
>> > Although I'm not following HST I started an HST like program about 6
>> months
>> > ago...I do a different exercise each day...
>> >
> <...>
>>
>> It will be extemely difficult to keep track of the weight increments,
>> isn't it?
>
> Take a note pad and record if you want...I see a lot of people doing it.
> I'm not doing a strict HST where I increase the weight with each
> movement. You could switch the exercise each week...when you progess to
> fewer sets...
>

So ignore gman on this one, he's blowing smoke. You're better off sticking
with the same set of exercises throughout the HST sequence.

You can alternate between two different sets of exercises, but it's twice
as many maxes to figure and there's no good reason for it.

There's a fair overlap between chins and pulldowns, but I don't see any
problem with doing one or the other plus rows.

Hugh


--
One puppy had its dewclaws removed in the creation of this post, but for
reasons of hygene and it really doesn't hurt them at all.

John M. Williams
December 3rd 04, 06:33 AM
Hugh Beyer > wrote:
>
>So ignore gman on this one, he's blowing smoke.

This statement seems to imply that there are times when that is not
true. What a novel proposition!

gman99
December 3rd 04, 02:10 PM
> So ignore gman on this one, he's blowing smoke. You're better off
> sticking with the same set of exercises throughout the HST sequence.
>
> You can alternate between two different sets of exercises, but it's twice
> as many maxes to figure and there's no good reason for it.
>
> There's a fair overlap between chins and pulldowns, but I don't see any
> problem with doing one or the other plus rows.

That might be good advice if you only plan to do the routine ONCE and never
again. Do that SAME routine for more than a few months and see how quickly
you become BORED to tears with it !!

gman99
December 3rd 04, 02:11 PM
John M. Williams > wrote:
> Hugh Beyer > wrote:
> >
> >So ignore gman on this one, he's blowing smoke.
>
> This statement seems to imply that there are times when that is not
> true. What a novel proposition!

FOAD asshole !

Hugh Beyer
December 3rd 04, 04:52 PM
(gman99) wrote in
:

>> So ignore gman on this one, he's blowing smoke. You're better off
>> sticking with the same set of exercises throughout the HST sequence.
>>
>> You can alternate between two different sets of exercises, but it's
>> twice as many maxes to figure and there's no good reason for it.
>>
>> There's a fair overlap between chins and pulldowns, but I don't see any
>> problem with doing one or the other plus rows.
>
> That might be good advice if you only plan to do the routine ONCE and
> never again. Do that SAME routine for more than a few months and see how
> quickly you become BORED to tears with it !!
>

Dude, you've no clue about HST at all. It only lasts 6-8 weeks, then you
strategically decondition and start again. At that point you can set up a
different exercise mix. No need to switch back and forth in the middle of
the HST progression.

Hugh

--
One puppy had its dewclaws removed in the creation of this post, but for
reasons of hygene and it really doesn't hurt them at all.

gman99
December 3rd 04, 07:11 PM
Hugh Beyer > wrote:
> (gman99) wrote in
> :
>
> >> So ignore gman on this one, he's blowing smoke. You're better off
> >> sticking with the same set of exercises throughout the HST sequence.
> >>
> >> You can alternate between two different sets of exercises, but it's
> >> twice as many maxes to figure and there's no good reason for it.
> >>
> >> There's a fair overlap between chins and pulldowns, but I don't see
> >> any problem with doing one or the other plus rows.
> >
> > That might be good advice if you only plan to do the routine ONCE and
> > never again. Do that SAME routine for more than a few months and see
> > how quickly you become BORED to tears with it !!
> >
>
> Dude, you've no clue about HST at all. It only lasts 6-8 weeks, then you
> strategically decondition and start again. At that point you can set up a
> different exercise mix. No need to switch back and forth in the middle of
> the HST progression.
>
DUDE....are you gonna stop after 6 weeks ?? It's a life long endeavor for
some of us DUDE...some of us don't get HYYYYUUUUUGE after 6 weeks and
stop...dick for brains !!

Hugh Beyer
December 3rd 04, 09:51 PM
(gman99) wrote in news:20041203141106.468
:

> Hugh Beyer > wrote:
>> (gman99) wrote in
>> :
>>
>> >> So ignore gman on this one, he's blowing smoke. You're better off
>> >> sticking with the same set of exercises throughout the HST sequence.
>> >>
>> >> You can alternate between two different sets of exercises, but it's
>> >> twice as many maxes to figure and there's no good reason for it.
>> >>
>> >> There's a fair overlap between chins and pulldowns, but I don't see
>> >> any problem with doing one or the other plus rows.
>> >
>> > That might be good advice if you only plan to do the routine ONCE and
>> > never again. Do that SAME routine for more than a few months and see
>> > how quickly you become BORED to tears with it !!
>> >
>>
>> Dude, you've no clue about HST at all. It only lasts 6-8 weeks, then you
>> strategically decondition and start again. At that point you can set up a
>> different exercise mix. No need to switch back and forth in the middle of
>> the HST progression.
>>
> DUDE....are you gonna stop after 6 weeks ?? It's a life long endeavor for
> some of us DUDE...some of us don't get HYYYYUUUUUGE after 6 weeks and
> stop...dick for brains !!
>

Reading comprehension not your strong point?

Hugh


--
One puppy had its dewclaws removed in the creation of this post, but for
reasons of hygene and it really doesn't hurt them at all.