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bc
December 3rd 04, 03:20 PM
Well, it's all coming out now. Conte's on 20/20 tonight. Excerpts I
heard include his speculation that 50% of professional athletes are
using anabolic steroids and 80% are using stimulants before their
events. He's also naming names, including lots of Olympic stars.

- bc

Pat Styles
December 3rd 04, 03:50 PM
"bc" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Well, it's all coming out now. Conte's on 20/20 tonight. Excerpts I
> heard include his speculation that 50% of professional athletes are
> using anabolic steroids and 80% are using stimulants before their
> events. He's also naming names, including lots of Olympic stars.
>
> - bc

I could care less about Conte's "speculation;" he's a schmuck. What I am
hopeful for is that the ongoing revelations of grand jury testimony admitting
steroid use by MLB players will force them to implement a legitimate testing
program to try to clean up the sport.
ps

John HUDSON
December 3rd 04, 04:13 PM
On Fri, 3 Dec 2004 07:50:44 -0800, "Pat Styles"
> wrote:

>"bc" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>> Well, it's all coming out now. Conte's on 20/20 tonight. Excerpts I
>> heard include his speculation that 50% of professional athletes are
>> using anabolic steroids and 80% are using stimulants before their
>> events. He's also naming names, including lots of Olympic stars.
>>
>> - bc
>
>I could care less about Conte's "speculation;" he's a schmuck. What I am
>hopeful for is that the ongoing revelations of grand jury testimony admitting
>steroid use by MLB players will force them to implement a legitimate testing
>program to try to clean up the sport.

That's somewhat parochial Pat, what about the rest of the sports that
he has contaminated?!!

HAGW!! ;o)

TFIF!!

Pat Styles
December 4th 04, 11:11 AM
"Rural living is good living" > wrote in message
...
> >What I am
>>hopeful for is that the ongoing revelations of grand jury testimony admitting
>>
>>steroid use by MLB players will force them to implement a legitimate testing
>>program to try to clean up the sport.
>>ps
>
> And I'm hopeful that your mom cleans your mouth out with soap. Please try to
> keep crap like that away from this newsgroup. Have a little respect man.

wtf r u on about?
ps

A.M
December 4th 04, 01:05 PM
On 3 Dec 2004 07:20:16 -0800, "bc" >
wrote:

>Well, it's all coming out now. Conte's on 20/20 tonight. Excerpts I
>heard include his speculation that 50% of professional athletes are
>using anabolic steroids and 80% are using stimulants before their
>events. He's also naming names, including lots of Olympic stars.
>
>- bc

13 percent of all statistics are made up on the spot. 56 percent of
people know this.

Will Brink
December 4th 04, 03:00 PM
In article >,
Usenet Posting > wrote:

> On 3 Dec 2004 07:20:16 -0800, "bc" >
> wrote:
>
> >Well, it's all coming out now. Conte's on 20/20 tonight. Excerpts I
> >heard include his speculation that 50% of professional athletes are
> >using anabolic steroids and 80% are using stimulants before their
> >events. He's also naming names, including lots of Olympic stars.
> >
> >- bc
>
> He has gone way over the edge. Even his lawyers think he is insane.

Yet everything he said on the show was correct and the truth. God only
knows what he is thinking, or how it will help his case, by going on
20/20, but he told it like it is.

--
Will Brink @ http://www.brinkzone.com/

Jimmy
December 5th 04, 01:54 AM
"Usenet Posting" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 10:00:13 -0500, Will Brink
> > wrote:
>
>>In article >,
>> Usenet Posting > wrote:
>>
>>> On 3 Dec 2004 07:20:16 -0800, "bc" >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> >Well, it's all coming out now. Conte's on 20/20 tonight. Excerpts I
>>> >heard include his speculation that 50% of professional athletes are
>>> >using anabolic steroids and 80% are using stimulants before their
>>> >events. He's also naming names, including lots of Olympic stars.
>>> >
>>> >- bc
>>>
>>> He has gone way over the edge. Even his lawyers think he is insane.
>>
>>Yet everything he said on the show was correct and the truth. God only
>>knows what he is thinking, or how it will help his case, by going on
>>20/20, but he told it like it is.
>
> I don't even have a reason to doubt it but that kind of info ought to
> be leverage, not what you spew on 20/20 for no apparent purpose.
>
> Unless he had tried to make a plea and nothing was happening.
>
> Who know, I have not been following it that closely. Anyone able to
> give a full overview of the legal proceedings so far?
>

I just heard the interview on NPR. He was so outright about everything..even
talking about how he saw Marion Jones inject in her leg(quad)..cuz she didnt
want to inject in her tummy. He went on and on..I dont know..why is he doing
this? It must be self serving. He seems like a prick.

Jimmy

December 5th 04, 02:59 AM
On Sat, 4 Dec 2004 20:54:25 -0500, "Jimmy" >
wrote:

>
>"Usenet Posting" > wrote in message
...
>> On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 10:00:13 -0500, Will Brink
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>In article >,
>>> Usenet Posting > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 3 Dec 2004 07:20:16 -0800, "bc" >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >Well, it's all coming out now. Conte's on 20/20 tonight. Excerpts I
>>>> >heard include his speculation that 50% of professional athletes are
>>>> >using anabolic steroids and 80% are using stimulants before their
>>>> >events. He's also naming names, including lots of Olympic stars.
>>>> >
>>>> >- bc
>>>>
>>>> He has gone way over the edge. Even his lawyers think he is insane.
>>>
>>>Yet everything he said on the show was correct and the truth. God only
>>>knows what he is thinking, or how it will help his case, by going on
>>>20/20, but he told it like it is.
>>
>> I don't even have a reason to doubt it but that kind of info ought to
>> be leverage, not what you spew on 20/20 for no apparent purpose.
>>
>> Unless he had tried to make a plea and nothing was happening.
>>
>> Who know, I have not been following it that closely. Anyone able to
>> give a full overview of the legal proceedings so far?
>>
>
>I just heard the interview on NPR. He was so outright about everything..even
>talking about how he saw Marion Jones inject in her leg(quad)..cuz she didnt
>want to inject in her tummy. He went on and on..I dont know..why is he doing
>this? It must be self serving. He seems like a prick.
>
>Jimmy
>
>

Oh come on, he tells exactly what happened and he is "self-serving".

How about the partakers of his "therapies". Who where they hoping to
serve, Santa Claus? No, they were hoping to win (serve themselves.).

Jimmy
December 5th 04, 03:18 AM
> wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 4 Dec 2004 20:54:25 -0500, "Jimmy" >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Usenet Posting" > wrote in message
...
>>> On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 10:00:13 -0500, Will Brink
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>In article >,
>>>> Usenet Posting > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 3 Dec 2004 07:20:16 -0800, "bc" >
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> >Well, it's all coming out now. Conte's on 20/20 tonight. Excerpts I
>>>>> >heard include his speculation that 50% of professional athletes are
>>>>> >using anabolic steroids and 80% are using stimulants before their
>>>>> >events. He's also naming names, including lots of Olympic stars.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >- bc
>>>>>
>>>>> He has gone way over the edge. Even his lawyers think he is insane.
>>>>
>>>>Yet everything he said on the show was correct and the truth. God only
>>>>knows what he is thinking, or how it will help his case, by going on
>>>>20/20, but he told it like it is.
>>>
>>> I don't even have a reason to doubt it but that kind of info ought to
>>> be leverage, not what you spew on 20/20 for no apparent purpose.
>>>
>>> Unless he had tried to make a plea and nothing was happening.
>>>
>>> Who know, I have not been following it that closely. Anyone able to
>>> give a full overview of the legal proceedings so far?
>>>
>>
>>I just heard the interview on NPR. He was so outright about
>>everything..even
>>talking about how he saw Marion Jones inject in her leg(quad)..cuz she
>>didnt
>>want to inject in her tummy. He went on and on..I dont know..why is he
>>doing
>>this? It must be self serving. He seems like a prick.
>>
>>Jimmy
>>
>>
>
> Oh come on, he tells exactly what happened and he is "self-serving".
>
> How about the partakers of his "therapies". Who where they hoping to
> serve, Santa Claus? No, they were hoping to win (serve themselves.).


I agree..I was just amazed how forthright he was.

Jim

Tua Mater
December 5th 04, 05:38 AM
Rural living is good living > wrote in
message ...
> >> >What I am
> >>>hopeful for is that the ongoing revelations of grand jury testimony
> >admitting
> >>>
> >>>steroid use by MLB players will force them to implement a legitimate
> >testing
> >>>program to try to clean up the sport.
> >>>ps
> >>
> >> And I'm hopeful that your mom cleans your mouth out with soap. Please
try
> >to
> >> keep crap like that away from this newsgroup. Have a little respect
man.
> >
> >wtf r u on about?
> >ps
>
>
> Let Baseball decide what it wants to do to these people. they are only
hurting
> themselves and you have no right to control them.

as a person who is all about limited power of the federal govt., i think it
is absurd that congress has threatened to enforce a drug use code on MLB
players, using the commerce clause as justification

frankly, i could not care less if MLB players use this stuff, and if *MLB*
wants to ban it, that is within their discretion.

but why CONGRESS thinks we need to legislate this (LEGISLATE IT), is another
question entirely

whit

> _______
> "They charge you $15 if you fail to show for your 'free' appointment" by
Lurker
> on a Gold's Gym policy.
>
> Tired of corrupt politicians and busybodies trying to run your life,
family,
> and property?
> Visit http://www.freestateproject.com

Tua Mater
December 5th 04, 05:42 AM
> wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 4 Dec 2004 20:54:25 -0500, "Jimmy" >
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Usenet Posting" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 10:00:13 -0500, Will Brink
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >>>In article >,
> >>> Usenet Posting > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 3 Dec 2004 07:20:16 -0800, "bc" >
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> >Well, it's all coming out now. Conte's on 20/20 tonight. Excerpts
I
> >>>> >heard include his speculation that 50% of professional athletes are
> >>>> >using anabolic steroids and 80% are using stimulants before their
> >>>> >events. He's also naming names, including lots of Olympic stars.
> >>>> >
> >>>> >- bc
> >>>>
> >>>> He has gone way over the edge. Even his lawyers think he is insane.
> >>>
> >>>Yet everything he said on the show was correct and the truth. God only
> >>>knows what he is thinking, or how it will help his case, by going on
> >>>20/20, but he told it like it is.
> >>
> >> I don't even have a reason to doubt it but that kind of info ought to
> >> be leverage, not what you spew on 20/20 for no apparent purpose.
> >>
> >> Unless he had tried to make a plea and nothing was happening.
> >>
> >> Who know, I have not been following it that closely. Anyone able to
> >> give a full overview of the legal proceedings so far?
> >>
> >
> >I just heard the interview on NPR. He was so outright about
everything..even
> >talking about how he saw Marion Jones inject in her leg(quad)..cuz she
didnt
> >want to inject in her tummy. He went on and on..I dont know..why is he
doing
> >this? It must be self serving. He seems like a prick.
> >
> >Jimmy
> >
> >
>
> Oh come on, he tells exactly what happened and he is "self-serving".
>
> How about the partakers of his "therapies". Who where they hoping to
> serve, Santa Claus? No, they were hoping to win (serve themselves.).
>
>

i also note that SINCE the whole conte thing broke, marion jones has sucked
as a sprinter.

obviously, her THG source dried up

duh

whit

>

Proton Soup
December 5th 04, 03:43 PM
On Sun, 05 Dec 2004 05:38:22 GMT, "Tua Mater" >
wrote:

>
>Rural living is good living > wrote in
>message ...
>> >> >What I am
>> >>>hopeful for is that the ongoing revelations of grand jury testimony
>> >admitting
>> >>>
>> >>>steroid use by MLB players will force them to implement a legitimate
>> >testing
>> >>>program to try to clean up the sport.
>> >>>ps
>> >>
>> >> And I'm hopeful that your mom cleans your mouth out with soap. Please
>try
>> >to
>> >> keep crap like that away from this newsgroup. Have a little respect
>man.
>> >
>> >wtf r u on about?
>> >ps
>>
>>
>> Let Baseball decide what it wants to do to these people. they are only
>hurting
>> themselves and you have no right to control them.
>
>as a person who is all about limited power of the federal govt., i think it
>is absurd that congress has threatened to enforce a drug use code on MLB
>players, using the commerce clause as justification
>
>frankly, i could not care less if MLB players use this stuff, and if *MLB*
>wants to ban it, that is within their discretion.
>
>but why CONGRESS thinks we need to legislate this (LEGISLATE IT), is another
>question entirely

It's for the children, silly. Won't somebody, for once, think of the
children?

-----------
Proton Soup

"Thanks for noticing that I didn't actually say anything." - Mike Lane

rick++
December 5th 04, 07:08 PM
"bc" > wrote in message > Well, it's all coming out now. Conte's on 20/20 tonight. Excerpts I
> heard include his speculation that 50% of professional athletes are
> using anabolic steroids and 80% are using stimulants before their
> events. He's also naming names, including lots of Olympic stars.

Where'd he get such low numbers? I thought it was 150% after reading this
newsgroup :-)

Tua Mater
December 5th 04, 08:59 PM
Usenet Posting > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 05 Dec 2004 05:42:05 GMT, "Tua Mater" >
> wrote:
>
>
> >i also note that SINCE the whole conte thing broke, marion jones has
sucked
> >as a sprinter.
> >
> >obviously, her THG source dried up
> >
> >duh
> >
> >whit
>
> She also had a baby not long before the Olympics.
>
>

so what?

i have seen OLers do phenomenally within a year of having a baby

i thought she wasjuiced the first time i saw her.

i was right

whit

> --
> The pain is pretty overwhelming, prolly
> comparable only to childbirth or kidney stones.
> --Brian L.

Tua Mater
December 5th 04, 09:00 PM
Proton Soup > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 05 Dec 2004 05:38:22 GMT, "Tua Mater" >
> wrote:
>
> >
> >Rural living is good living > wrote in
> >message ...
> >> >> >What I am
> >> >>>hopeful for is that the ongoing revelations of grand jury testimony
> >> >admitting
> >> >>>
> >> >>>steroid use by MLB players will force them to implement a legitimate
> >> >testing
> >> >>>program to try to clean up the sport.
> >> >>>ps
> >> >>
> >> >> And I'm hopeful that your mom cleans your mouth out with soap.
Please
> >try
> >> >to
> >> >> keep crap like that away from this newsgroup. Have a little respect
> >man.
> >> >
> >> >wtf r u on about?
> >> >ps
> >>
> >>
> >> Let Baseball decide what it wants to do to these people. they are only
> >hurting
> >> themselves and you have no right to control them.
> >
> >as a person who is all about limited power of the federal govt., i think
it
> >is absurd that congress has threatened to enforce a drug use code on MLB
> >players, using the commerce clause as justification
> >
> >frankly, i could not care less if MLB players use this stuff, and if
*MLB*
> >wants to ban it, that is within their discretion.
> >
> >but why CONGRESS thinks we need to legislate this (LEGISLATE IT), is
another
> >question entirely
>
> It's for the children, silly. Won't somebody, for once, think of the
> children?
>

that IS the rationale, and imo it DOES have some merit. sports stars ARE
looked up to by kids

but federalism is more important. if MLB wants to do it, fine. but the
feds should stay out of it

whit

> -----------
> Proton Soup
>
> "Thanks for noticing that I didn't actually say anything." - Mike Lane

Robert Schuh
December 5th 04, 09:59 PM
bc wrote:

>Well, it's all coming out now. Conte's on 20/20 tonight. Excerpts I
>heard include his speculation that 50% of professional athletes are
>using anabolic steroids and 80% are using stimulants before their
>events. He's also naming names, including lots of Olympic stars.
>
>- bc
>
>
>
This just goes to show what we all here have know for years. Victor
Conte is a low life scum bag of the HIGHEST degree. He needs to face the
fact that he is a con man and needs to go to prison for a LONG time. The
irony of all this is just too funny. He used to be such a smug little
**** when he posted here. I am sure that will go a long way as soon as
his little weasel ass hears those iron bars close behind him. :-)

--
--
Robert Schuh
"Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche

Robert Schuh
December 5th 04, 10:01 PM
Pat Styles wrote:

>"bc" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
>
>>Well, it's all coming out now. Conte's on 20/20 tonight. Excerpts I
>>heard include his speculation that 50% of professional athletes are
>>using anabolic steroids and 80% are using stimulants before their
>>events. He's also naming names, including lots of Olympic stars.
>>
>>- bc
>>
>>
>
>I could care less about Conte's "speculation;" he's a schmuck. What I am
>hopeful for is that the ongoing revelations of grand jury testimony admitting
>steroid use by MLB players will force them to implement a legitimate testing
>program to try to clean up the sport.
>ps
>
>
>
>
I agree with your take about Victor, but I see no reason why consenting
adults can not put what ever they want in their bodies. I take it you
think it is cool that a baseball player can drink and smoke, but if he
takes steroids, he is a scum bag? Sorry, but that does not fly.

--
--
Robert Schuh
"Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche

Robert Schuh
December 5th 04, 10:04 PM
Tua Mater wrote:

>Usenet Posting > wrote in message
...
>
>
>>On Sun, 05 Dec 2004 05:42:05 GMT, "Tua Mater" >
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>i also note that SINCE the whole conte thing broke, marion jones has
>>>
>>>
>sucked
>
>
>>>as a sprinter.
>>>
>>>obviously, her THG source dried up
>>>
>>>duh
>>>
>>>whit
>>>
>>>
>>She also had a baby not long before the Olympics.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>so what?
>
>i have seen OLers do phenomenally within a year of having a baby
>
>i thought she wasjuiced the first time i saw her.
>
>i was right
>
>whit
>
>
>
>>--
>>The pain is pretty overwhelming, prolly
>>comparable only to childbirth or kidney stones.
>>--Brian L.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Whit,
They are ALL "juiced" at that level, so don't make Marion seem like she
was doing anything that everyone else was not.

--
--
Robert Schuh
"Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche

Peter Allen
December 5th 04, 10:42 PM
"Usenet Posting" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 05 Dec 2004 20:59:04 GMT, "Tua Mater" >
> wrote:
> Slow down there tonto, I'd hardly call Conte a reliable source.
>
> She passed every test she took as well as a lie detector test (saw
> that in a news report so I'm not sure how valid it is).

Lie detectors are massively over-hyped.

They _can_ be effective if one of:

the subject believes in infallible lie detectors
the subject is being forced to think hard about their answers
the subject is just a crap liar

is true.

If, on the other hand, you have a good idea what will be asked so you can
produce canned answers, you know the machine can be fooled fairly easily if
you stay calm, and you can lie believably, then you can pass with no
trouble.

And part of the reason BALCO is currently in the **** is that they went out
and developed a steroid specifically to pass drug tests - so 'passed all her
tests' really doesn't say much.

Peter

Will Brink
December 5th 04, 11:17 PM
In article >,
Usenet Posting > wrote:

> On Sun, 05 Dec 2004 20:59:04 GMT, "Tua Mater" >
> wrote:
>
> >
> >Usenet Posting > wrote in message
> ...
> >> On Sun, 05 Dec 2004 05:42:05 GMT, "Tua Mater" >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> >i also note that SINCE the whole conte thing broke, marion jones has
> >sucked
> >> >as a sprinter.
> >> >
> >> >obviously, her THG source dried up
> >> >
> >> >duh
> >> >
> >> >whit
> >>
> >> She also had a baby not long before the Olympics.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >so what?
> >
> >i have seen OLers do phenomenally within a year of having a baby
> >
> >i thought she wasjuiced the first time i saw her.
> >
> >i was right
> >
> >whit
>
> Slow down there tonto, I'd hardly call Conte a reliable source.

In this case, yes you can.

>
> She passed every test

Very easy to do.

> she took as well as a lie detector test (saw
> that in a news report so I'm not sure how valid it is).

Exactly.

>
>
> --
> The pain is pretty overwhelming, prolly
> comparable only to childbirth or kidney stones.
> --Brian L.

--
Will Brink @ http://www.brinkzone.com/

Art S
December 5th 04, 11:25 PM
"Tua Mater" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Sat, 4 Dec 2004 20:54:25 -0500, "Jimmy" >
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >"Usenet Posting" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >> On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 10:00:13 -0500, Will Brink
> > >> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>In article >,
> > >>> Usenet Posting > wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> On 3 Dec 2004 07:20:16 -0800, "bc" >
> > >>>> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> >Well, it's all coming out now. Conte's on 20/20 tonight. Excerpts
> I
> > >>>> >heard include his speculation that 50% of professional athletes are
> > >>>> >using anabolic steroids and 80% are using stimulants before their
> > >>>> >events. He's also naming names, including lots of Olympic stars.
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >- bc
> > >>>>
> > >>>> He has gone way over the edge. Even his lawyers think he is insane.
> > >>>
> > >>>Yet everything he said on the show was correct and the truth. God only
> > >>>knows what he is thinking, or how it will help his case, by going on
> > >>>20/20, but he told it like it is.
> > >>
> > >> I don't even have a reason to doubt it but that kind of info ought to
> > >> be leverage, not what you spew on 20/20 for no apparent purpose.
> > >>
> > >> Unless he had tried to make a plea and nothing was happening.
> > >>
> > >> Who know, I have not been following it that closely. Anyone able to
> > >> give a full overview of the legal proceedings so far?
> > >>
> > >
> > >I just heard the interview on NPR. He was so outright about
> everything..even
> > >talking about how he saw Marion Jones inject in her leg(quad)..cuz she
> didnt
> > >want to inject in her tummy. He went on and on..I dont know..why is he
> doing
> > >this? It must be self serving. He seems like a prick.
> > >
> > >Jimmy
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Oh come on, he tells exactly what happened and he is "self-serving".
> >
> > How about the partakers of his "therapies". Who where they hoping to
> > serve, Santa Claus? No, they were hoping to win (serve themselves.).
> >
> >
>
> i also note that SINCE the whole conte thing broke, marion jones has sucked
> as a sprinter.
>
> obviously, her THG source dried up
>
> duh
>
> whit

According to her autobiography, IIRC, she changed her coach within the past
year (possibly within the past 6 months); changed her training style; changed her
running style and had a baby. (Sorry - I don't have the book handy to refresh/
correct my memory).

She also states that she isn't/wasn't a client of Victor's and only took supplements
that can be purchased at GMC (I think that was the store name).

So flip a coin and decide which self-serving statement you want to believe.

Art

Art S
December 5th 04, 11:31 PM
"Tua Mater" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> Usenet Posting > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Sun, 05 Dec 2004 05:42:05 GMT, "Tua Mater" >
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> > >i also note that SINCE the whole conte thing broke, marion jones has
> sucked
> > >as a sprinter.
> > >
> > >obviously, her THG source dried up
> > >
> > >duh
> > >
> > >whit
> >
> > She also had a baby not long before the Olympics.
> >
> >
>
> so what?
>
> i have seen OLers do phenomenally within a year of having a baby
>
> i thought she wasjuiced the first time i saw her.
>
> i was right
>
> whit
>

You may be right <shrugs>.

The drug testers were seeing the new drug Victor was selling - they just
didn't know what it was. That suggests that someone has records, and
somewhere along the line proof of who was taking his new drug will be
available.

Art

Tua Mater
December 6th 04, 12:11 AM
Art S > wrote in message
...
>
> "Tua Mater" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
> >
> > Usenet Posting > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > On Sun, 05 Dec 2004 05:42:05 GMT, "Tua Mater" >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > >i also note that SINCE the whole conte thing broke, marion jones has
> > sucked
> > > >as a sprinter.
> > > >
> > > >obviously, her THG source dried up
> > > >
> > > >duh
> > > >
> > > >whit
> > >
> > > She also had a baby not long before the Olympics.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > so what?
> >
> > i have seen OLers do phenomenally within a year of having a baby
> >
> > i thought she wasjuiced the first time i saw her.
> >
> > i was right
> >
> > whit
> >
>
> You may be right <shrugs>.
>
> The drug testers were seeing the new drug Victor was selling - they just
> didn't know what it was. That suggests that someone has records, and
> somewhere along the line proof of who was taking his new drug will be
> available.
>
> Art

not unless they kept samples of her drugs to be tested with the new
knowledge

whit

>
>

Tua Mater
December 6th 04, 12:15 AM
Art S > wrote in message
...
>
> "Tua Mater" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
> >
> > > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > On Sat, 4 Dec 2004 20:54:25 -0500, "Jimmy" >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >"Usenet Posting" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > >> On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 10:00:13 -0500, Will Brink
> > > >> > wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>>In article >,
> > > >>> Usenet Posting > wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> On 3 Dec 2004 07:20:16 -0800, "bc" >
> > > >>>> wrote:
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> >Well, it's all coming out now. Conte's on 20/20 tonight.
Excerpts
> > I
> > > >>>> >heard include his speculation that 50% of professional athletes
are
> > > >>>> >using anabolic steroids and 80% are using stimulants before
their
> > > >>>> >events. He's also naming names, including lots of Olympic
stars.
> > > >>>> >
> > > >>>> >- bc
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> He has gone way over the edge. Even his lawyers think he is
insane.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>Yet everything he said on the show was correct and the truth. God
only
> > > >>>knows what he is thinking, or how it will help his case, by going
on
> > > >>>20/20, but he told it like it is.
> > > >>
> > > >> I don't even have a reason to doubt it but that kind of info ought
to
> > > >> be leverage, not what you spew on 20/20 for no apparent purpose.
> > > >>
> > > >> Unless he had tried to make a plea and nothing was happening.
> > > >>
> > > >> Who know, I have not been following it that closely. Anyone able
to
> > > >> give a full overview of the legal proceedings so far?
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >I just heard the interview on NPR. He was so outright about
> > everything..even
> > > >talking about how he saw Marion Jones inject in her leg(quad)..cuz
she
> > didnt
> > > >want to inject in her tummy. He went on and on..I dont know..why is
he
> > doing
> > > >this? It must be self serving. He seems like a prick.
> > > >
> > > >Jimmy
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Oh come on, he tells exactly what happened and he is "self-serving".
> > >
> > > How about the partakers of his "therapies". Who where they hoping to
> > > serve, Santa Claus? No, they were hoping to win (serve themselves.).
> > >
> > >
> >
> > i also note that SINCE the whole conte thing broke, marion jones has
sucked
> > as a sprinter.
> >
> > obviously, her THG source dried up
> >
> > duh
> >
> > whit
>
> According to her autobiography, IIRC, she changed her coach within the
past
> year (possibly within the past 6 months); changed her training style;
changed her
> running style and had a baby. (Sorry - I don't have the book handy to
refresh/
> correct my memory).
>
> She also states that she isn't/wasn't a client of Victor's and only took
supplements
> that can be purchased at GMC (I think that was the store name).
>
> So flip a coin and decide which self-serving statement you want to
believe.
>
> Art

i don't believe HER, based on her phsyique, the complete sea change in her
performance since victor was busted, and who her husband is.

read the writing on the wall. she was obviously juiced in sydney

whit

>
>

Tua Mater
December 6th 04, 12:21 AM
Will Brink > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> Usenet Posting > wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 05 Dec 2004 20:59:04 GMT, "Tua Mater" >
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >Usenet Posting > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >> On Sun, 05 Dec 2004 05:42:05 GMT, "Tua Mater" >
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> >i also note that SINCE the whole conte thing broke, marion jones has
> > >sucked
> > >> >as a sprinter.
> > >> >
> > >> >obviously, her THG source dried up
> > >> >
> > >> >duh
> > >> >
> > >> >whit
> > >>
> > >> She also had a baby not long before the Olympics.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >so what?
> > >
> > >i have seen OLers do phenomenally within a year of having a baby
> > >
> > >i thought she wasjuiced the first time i saw her.
> > >
> > >i was right
> > >
> > >whit
> >
> > Slow down there tonto, I'd hardly call Conte a reliable source.
>
> In this case, yes you can.
>

and i thought she was juiced BEFORE this thing broke. like when I saw her
in the sydney olympics.

conte is just another piece of evidence against her. doesn't help who her
husband is, either

> >
> > She passed every test
>
> Very easy to do.
>
> > she took as well as a lie detector test (saw
> > that in a news report so I'm not sure how valid it is).
>
> Exactly.
>

lie detector tests are easy to pass.

whit

> >
> >
> > --
> > The pain is pretty overwhelming, prolly
> > comparable only to childbirth or kidney stones.
> > --Brian L.
>
> --
> Will Brink @ http://www.brinkzone.com/
>
>

Tua Mater
December 6th 04, 12:25 AM
Robert Schuh > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Tua Mater wrote:
>
> >Usenet Posting > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >
> >>On Sun, 05 Dec 2004 05:42:05 GMT, "Tua Mater" >
> >>wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>i also note that SINCE the whole conte thing broke, marion jones has
> >>>
> >>>
> >sucked
> >
> >
> >>>as a sprinter.
> >>>
> >>>obviously, her THG source dried up
> >>>
> >>>duh
> >>>
> >>>whit
> >>>
> >>>
> >>She also had a baby not long before the Olympics.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >so what?
> >
> >i have seen OLers do phenomenally within a year of having a baby
> >
> >i thought she wasjuiced the first time i saw her.
> >
> >i was right
> >
> >whit
> >
> >
> >
> >>--
> >>The pain is pretty overwhelming, prolly
> >>comparable only to childbirth or kidney stones.
> >>--Brian L.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> Whit,
> They are ALL "juiced" at that level, so don't make Marion seem like she
> was doing anything that everyone else was not.
>

rob, i never implied that. i think there might be a small minority who are
not juiced at that level, at best

i certainly think the majority are juiced. especially the VAST majority of
medal holders.

i am not implying she is different. never said that, or meant that.

it's par for the course

whit

> --
> --
> Robert Schuh
> "Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
> intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
> the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
> the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
> - Nietzsche
>

John M. Williams
December 6th 04, 12:47 AM
"Peter Allen" > wrote:
>"Usenet Posting" > wrote:
>> "Tua Mater" > wrote:
>> Slow down there tonto, I'd hardly call Conte a reliable source.
>>
>> She passed every test she took as well as a lie detector test (saw
>> that in a news report so I'm not sure how valid it is).
>
>Lie detectors are massively over-hyped.
>
>They _can_ be effective if one of:
>
>the subject believes in infallible lie detectors
>the subject is being forced to think hard about their answers
>the subject is just a crap liar
>
>is true.
>
>If, on the other hand, you have a good idea what will be asked so you can
>produce canned answers ...

Do you really have any experience with polygraph or CVSA testing?

If so, then how does one produce a "canned" yes-no answer?

Proton Soup
December 6th 04, 12:56 AM
On Sun, 05 Dec 2004 21:00:42 GMT, "Tua Mater" >
wrote:

>
>Proton Soup > wrote in message
...
>> On Sun, 05 Dec 2004 05:38:22 GMT, "Tua Mater" >
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >Rural living is good living > wrote in
>> >message ...
>> >> >> >What I am
>> >> >>>hopeful for is that the ongoing revelations of grand jury testimony
>> >> >admitting
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>steroid use by MLB players will force them to implement a legitimate
>> >> >testing
>> >> >>>program to try to clean up the sport.
>> >> >>>ps
>> >> >>
>> >> >> And I'm hopeful that your mom cleans your mouth out with soap.
>Please
>> >try
>> >> >to
>> >> >> keep crap like that away from this newsgroup. Have a little respect
>> >man.
>> >> >
>> >> >wtf r u on about?
>> >> >ps
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Let Baseball decide what it wants to do to these people. they are only
>> >hurting
>> >> themselves and you have no right to control them.
>> >
>> >as a person who is all about limited power of the federal govt., i think
>it
>> >is absurd that congress has threatened to enforce a drug use code on MLB
>> >players, using the commerce clause as justification
>> >
>> >frankly, i could not care less if MLB players use this stuff, and if
>*MLB*
>> >wants to ban it, that is within their discretion.
>> >
>> >but why CONGRESS thinks we need to legislate this (LEGISLATE IT), is
>another
>> >question entirely
>>
>> It's for the children, silly. Won't somebody, for once, think of the
>> children?
>>
>
>that IS the rationale, and imo it DOES have some merit. sports stars ARE
>looked up to by kids

Not being a sports fan myself, I truly don't understand it. Maybe
it's time to start finding other role models for children to look up
to.

>but federalism is more important. if MLB wants to do it, fine. but the
>feds should stay out of it

Oh, I agree, and while they're at it, the Republicans need to kick
that freedom-hating McCain out of the party. Just what the hell is he
thinking? What next? Are we going to forcibly drug test every
American that works for a company impacted in some way by interstate
commerce? That's every-****ing body except Senators! Damn fascist
asshole.

-----------
Proton Soup

"Thanks for noticing that I didn't actually say anything." - Mike Lane

John M. Williams
December 6th 04, 01:26 AM
"Tua Mater" > wrote:
>
>lie detector tests are easy to pass.

Depends on what you call "pass."

Peter Allen
December 6th 04, 02:26 AM
"John M. Williams" > wrote in message
...
> "Peter Allen" > wrote:
> >"Usenet Posting" > wrote:
> >> "Tua Mater" > wrote:
> >> Slow down there tonto, I'd hardly call Conte a reliable source.
> >>
> >> She passed every test she took as well as a lie detector test (saw
> >> that in a news report so I'm not sure how valid it is).
> >
> >Lie detectors are massively over-hyped.
> >
> >They _can_ be effective if one of:
> >
> >the subject believes in infallible lie detectors
> >the subject is being forced to think hard about their answers
> >the subject is just a crap liar
> >
> >is true.
> >
> >If, on the other hand, you have a good idea what will be asked so you can
> >produce canned answers ...
>
> Do you really have any experience with polygraph or CVSA testing?
>
> If so, then how does one produce a "canned" yes-no answer?

Even for yes/no questions, lying takes more time and brainpower than telling
the truth. If you haven't already anticipated being asked that question.
Point being that if you're telling the truth, you can simply answer each
question straight off, if you're lying and haven't thought in advance every
time you're asked a question you first have to think about whether yes or no
is the 'right' answer then say it, and the results of the stress of trying
to do so (or the pauses) are picked up.

If you're trying to cover doping, you'd simply have to replace in your mind
illegal drugs with legal supplements, same for discussing drugs. And you
know that you won't be caught saying something the questioner knows is
false, because that would mean you'd already been caught doping. Which is
easy.
Whereas for, say, child abuse, you have to cover a whole lot of different
situations, and be able to cope with changing bits of your story on the spot
when the questioner catches you saying something he already knows isn't true
because the neighbour saw something. Which is hard.

Peter

John M. Williams
December 6th 04, 04:12 AM
"Peter Allen" > wrote:
>"John M. Williams" > wrote:
>> "Peter Allen" > wrote:
>> >"Usenet Posting" > wrote:
>> >> "Tua Mater" > wrote:
>> >> Slow down there tonto, I'd hardly call Conte a reliable source.
>> >>
>> >> She passed every test she took as well as a lie detector test (saw
>> >> that in a news report so I'm not sure how valid it is).
>> >
>> >Lie detectors are massively over-hyped.
>> >
>> >They _can_ be effective if one of:
>> >
>> >the subject believes in infallible lie detectors
>> >the subject is being forced to think hard about their answers
>> >the subject is just a crap liar
>> >
>> >is true.
>> >
>> >If, on the other hand, you have a good idea what will be asked so you can
>> >produce canned answers ...
>>
>> Do you really have any experience with polygraph or CVSA testing?
>>
>> If so, then how does one produce a "canned" yes-no answer?
>
>Even for yes/no questions, lying takes more time and brainpower than telling
>the truth. If you haven't already anticipated being asked that question.
>Point being that if you're telling the truth, you can simply answer each
>question straight off, if you're lying and haven't thought in advance every
>time you're asked a question you first have to think about whether yes or no
>is the 'right' answer then say it, and the results of the stress of trying
>to do so (or the pauses) are picked up.
>
>If you're trying to cover doping, you'd simply have to replace in your mind
>illegal drugs with legal supplements, same for discussing drugs. And you
>know that you won't be caught saying something the questioner knows is
>false, because that would mean you'd already been caught doping. Which is
>easy.
>Whereas for, say, child abuse, you have to cover a whole lot of different
>situations, and be able to cope with changing bits of your story on the spot
>when the questioner catches you saying something he already knows isn't true
>because the neighbour saw something. Which is hard.

You're conflating pre-test interviews with the actual test.

Brian Link
December 6th 04, 05:23 AM
On Sun, 05 Dec 2004 15:04:32 -0700, Robert Schuh >
wrote:

>Tua Mater wrote:
>
>>Usenet Posting > wrote in message
...
>>
>>
>>>On Sun, 05 Dec 2004 05:42:05 GMT, "Tua Mater" >
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>i also note that SINCE the whole conte thing broke, marion jones has
>>>>
>>>>
>>sucked
>>
>>
>>>>as a sprinter.
>>>>
>>>>obviously, her THG source dried up
>>>>
>>>>duh
>>>>
>>>>whit
>>>>
>>>>
>>>She also had a baby not long before the Olympics.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>so what?
>>
>>i have seen OLers do phenomenally within a year of having a baby
>>
>>i thought she wasjuiced the first time i saw her.
>>
>>i was right
>>
>>whit
>>
>>
>>
>>>--
>>>The pain is pretty overwhelming, prolly
>>>comparable only to childbirth or kidney stones.
>>>--Brian L.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>Whit,
>They are ALL "juiced" at that level, so don't make Marion seem like she
>was doing anything that everyone else was not.
>
>--

OMG.. I've made it into a sig.

Frankly, I think they oughtta just legalize the lot, so we can witness
the spectacle of massively disproportionate gargantua asploding their
hearts in great gushes of arterial fluid all over the playing field.

That's what America's all about.

BLink

Pat Styles
December 6th 04, 05:36 AM
"Rural living is good living" > wrote in message
...
>>> >What I am
>>>>hopeful for is that the ongoing revelations of grand jury testimony
>>admitting
>>>>
>>>>steroid use by MLB players will force them to implement a legitimate
>>testing
>>>>program to try to clean up the sport.
>>>>ps
>>>
>>> And I'm hopeful that your mom cleans your mouth out with soap. Please try
>>to
>>> keep crap like that away from this newsgroup. Have a little respect man.
>>
>>wtf r u on about?
>>ps
>
>
> Let Baseball decide what it wants to do to these people.

Shall we review? I said, "What I am hopeful for is that the ongoing revelations
of grand jury testimony admitting
steroid use by MLB players will force them to implement a legitimate testing
program to try to clean up the sport."

Note "them" refers to MLB and its officials, owners, and players. So I
expressed a desire for MLB to implement a testing program to clean up drug use.

> they are only hurting themselves and you have no right to control them.

I never said I did. I have every right to express an opinion on the matter.
You haven't gotten any smarter over the years, have you? How are the farmer's
walks coming, funbot?
ps

Peter Allen
December 6th 04, 12:47 PM
"John M. Williams" > wrote in message
...
> "Peter Allen" > wrote:
> >If you're trying to cover doping, you'd simply have to replace in your
mind
> >illegal drugs with legal supplements, same for discussing drugs. And you
> >know that you won't be caught saying something the questioner knows is
> >false, because that would mean you'd already been caught doping. Which is
> >easy.
> >Whereas for, say, child abuse, you have to cover a whole lot of different
> >situations, and be able to cope with changing bits of your story on the
spot
> >when the questioner catches you saying something he already knows isn't
true
> >because the neighbour saw something. Which is hard.
>
> You're conflating pre-test interviews with the actual test.

I don't think I am - correct me if I'm wrong, but the basic idea of a lie
detector is that it measures various things, like heart rate, skin
resistance, etc, which typically change in a fairly predictable way when
someone gets stressed. So the questions are supposed to cause stress in
someone who's trying to construct a cover.

Put things another way - if you tell someone in advance what all the
questions will be, they have time to decide whether to say yes or no to
each, and then you test, then it's not going to be too hard to stay calm and
pass, OK?

So it will be relatively easy to pass if your cover story is very similar to
your real life, because there aren't many questions that can be asked where
you'd have to lie, and you can anticipate them. I'd guess that if you're
dealing with family law, OTOH, a cover story would have to be really quite
significantly different from real life (like a lot more than 'legal
supplements' for 'illegal drugs'), so if a questioner just asks enough
questions there's a good chance they'll hit on one which wasn't anticipated;
and a lie detector test will be a lot more effective.

Peter

Pat Styles
December 6th 04, 03:33 PM
"Rural living is good living" > wrote in message
...
>>>>>>steroid use by MLB players will force them to implement a legitimate
>>>>testing
>>>>>>program to try to clean up the sport.
>>>>>>ps
>
> Will FORCE them to implement... I thought you meant the government or public
> pressure would FORCE them, which I think is wrong.

Why shouldn't the public, the people who are the consumers of the product, the
people who pay the admission, buy the concessions, and otherwise support the
game, put pressure on the game to clean itself up?
ps

Tua Mater
December 6th 04, 06:31 PM
Pat Styles > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> "Rural living is good living" > wrote in
message
> ...
> >>>>>>steroid use by MLB players will force them to implement a legitimate
> >>>>testing
> >>>>>>program to try to clean up the sport.
> >>>>>>ps
> >
> > Will FORCE them to implement... I thought you meant the government or
public
> > pressure would FORCE them, which I think is wrong.
>
> Why shouldn't the public, the people who are the consumers of the product,
the
> people who pay the admission, buy the concessions, and otherwise support
the
> game, put pressure on the game to clean itself up?
> ps
>

personally, i have no problem with that. i have a problem with CONGRESS
using the commerce clause to do that via legislation. that, imo, is absurd.

but the consumers have every right (and even a duty, arguably) to demand
accountability. they are the ones who support the sport. their opinion
matters

whit

>

Tua Mater
December 6th 04, 06:43 PM
Pat Styles > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> "Rural living is good living" > wrote in
message
> ...
> >>> >What I am
> >>>>hopeful for is that the ongoing revelations of grand jury testimony
> >>admitting
> >>>>
> >>>>steroid use by MLB players will force them to implement a legitimate
> >>testing
> >>>>program to try to clean up the sport.
> >>>>ps
> >>>
> >>> And I'm hopeful that your mom cleans your mouth out with soap. Please
try
> >>to
> >>> keep crap like that away from this newsgroup. Have a little respect
man.
> >>
> >>wtf r u on about?
> >>ps
> >
> >
> > Let Baseball decide what it wants to do to these people.
>
> Shall we review? I said, "What I am hopeful for is that the ongoing
revelations
> of grand jury testimony admitting

this brings up another question. gj testimony is SUPPOSED to be secret and
sealed

who the hell is leaking this stuff?

whit

> steroid use by MLB players will force them to implement a legitimate
testing
> program to try to clean up the sport."
>
> Note "them" refers to MLB and its officials, owners, and players. So I
> expressed a desire for MLB to implement a testing program to clean up drug
use.
>
> > they are only hurting themselves and you have no right to control them.
>
> I never said I did. I have every right to express an opinion on the
matter.
> You haven't gotten any smarter over the years, have you? How are the
farmer's
> walks coming, funbot?
> ps
>
>
>

Tua Mater
December 6th 04, 06:54 PM
John M. Williams > wrote in message
...
> "Tua Mater" > wrote:
> >
> >lie detector tests are easy to pass.
>
> Depends on what you call "pass."

by pass, i mean not show deception

they work well with people who feel guilty over what they've done and/or
aren't talented enough to control their thoughts/emotions. if people THINK
the lie detector works well, then it does. because they get nervous when
they lie.

whit

Tua Mater
December 6th 04, 06:56 PM
Proton Soup > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 05 Dec 2004 21:00:42 GMT, "Tua Mater" >
> wrote:
>
> >
> >Proton Soup > wrote in message
> ...
> >> On Sun, 05 Dec 2004 05:38:22 GMT, "Tua Mater" >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >Rural living is good living > wrote in
> >> >message ...
> >> >> >> >What I am
> >> >> >>>hopeful for is that the ongoing revelations of grand jury
testimony
> >> >> >admitting
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>steroid use by MLB players will force them to implement a
legitimate
> >> >> >testing
> >> >> >>>program to try to clean up the sport.
> >> >> >>>ps
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> And I'm hopeful that your mom cleans your mouth out with soap.
> >Please
> >> >try
> >> >> >to
> >> >> >> keep crap like that away from this newsgroup. Have a little
respect
> >> >man.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >wtf r u on about?
> >> >> >ps
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Let Baseball decide what it wants to do to these people. they are
only
> >> >hurting
> >> >> themselves and you have no right to control them.
> >> >
> >> >as a person who is all about limited power of the federal govt., i
think
> >it
> >> >is absurd that congress has threatened to enforce a drug use code on
MLB
> >> >players, using the commerce clause as justification
> >> >
> >> >frankly, i could not care less if MLB players use this stuff, and if
> >*MLB*
> >> >wants to ban it, that is within their discretion.
> >> >
> >> >but why CONGRESS thinks we need to legislate this (LEGISLATE IT), is
> >another
> >> >question entirely
> >>
> >> It's for the children, silly. Won't somebody, for once, think of the
> >> children?
> >>
> >
> >that IS the rationale, and imo it DOES have some merit. sports stars ARE
> >looked up to by kids
>
> Not being a sports fan myself, I truly don't understand it. Maybe
> it's time to start finding other role models for children to look up
> to.
>

charles barkley aside, sports stars ARE looked to as role models

certainly, the NBA needs more david robinsons and less letrell sprewells

> >but federalism is more important. if MLB wants to do it, fine. but the
> >feds should stay out of it
>
> Oh, I agree, and while they're at it, the Republicans need to kick
> that freedom-hating McCain out of the party. Just what the hell is he
> thinking? What next? Are we going to forcibly drug test every
> American that works for a company impacted in some way by interstate
> commerce? That's every-****ing body except Senators! Damn fascist
> asshole.

mccain-feingold was bad enough.

whit

>
> -----------
> Proton Soup
>
> "Thanks for noticing that I didn't actually say anything." - Mike Lane

Proton Soup
December 6th 04, 07:16 PM
On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 18:31:50 GMT, "Tua Mater" >
wrote:

>
>Pat Styles > wrote in message
>news:[email protected]
>> "Rural living is good living" > wrote in
>message
>> ...
>> >>>>>>steroid use by MLB players will force them to implement a legitimate
>> >>>>testing
>> >>>>>>program to try to clean up the sport.
>> >>>>>>ps
>> >
>> > Will FORCE them to implement... I thought you meant the government or
>public
>> > pressure would FORCE them, which I think is wrong.
>>
>> Why shouldn't the public, the people who are the consumers of the product,
>the
>> people who pay the admission, buy the concessions, and otherwise support
>the
>> game, put pressure on the game to clean itself up?
>> ps
>>
>
>personally, i have no problem with that. i have a problem with CONGRESS
>using the commerce clause to do that via legislation. that, imo, is absurd.
>
>but the consumers have every right (and even a duty, arguably) to demand
>accountability. they are the ones who support the sport. their opinion
>matters

They vote with their dollars, and they seem to be saying that they're
OK with it. If parents spent a year not letting their kids watch
baseball, play baseball, buy baseball merchandise, etc., then it would
certainly get their attention.

-----------
Proton Soup

"Thanks for noticing that I didn't actually say anything." - Mike Lane

Proton Soup
December 6th 04, 07:18 PM
On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 18:54:01 GMT, "Tua Mater" >
wrote:

>
>John M. Williams > wrote in message
...
>> "Tua Mater" > wrote:
>> >
>> >lie detector tests are easy to pass.
>>
>> Depends on what you call "pass."
>
>by pass, i mean not show deception
>
>they work well with people who feel guilty over what they've done and/or
>aren't talented enough to control their thoughts/emotions. if people THINK
>the lie detector works well, then it does. because they get nervous when
>they lie.

What about the people who get nervous anyway, even though they haven't
done anything ?

-----------
Proton Soup

"Thanks for noticing that I didn't actually say anything." - Mike Lane

Tua Mater
December 6th 04, 07:31 PM
Proton Soup > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 18:54:01 GMT, "Tua Mater" >
> wrote:
>
> >
> >John M. Williams > wrote in message
> ...
> >> "Tua Mater" > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >lie detector tests are easy to pass.
> >>
> >> Depends on what you call "pass."
> >
> >by pass, i mean not show deception
> >
> >they work well with people who feel guilty over what they've done and/or
> >aren't talented enough to control their thoughts/emotions. if people
THINK
> >the lie detector works well, then it does. because they get nervous when
> >they lie.
>
> What about the people who get nervous anyway, even though they haven't
> done anything ?

they often show inconclusive readings. many people just can't be lie
detectored, because you can't even get baseline readings. they are all over
the chart. literally.

whit

>
> -----------
> Proton Soup
>
> "Thanks for noticing that I didn't actually say anything." - Mike Lane

Pat Styles
December 7th 04, 05:32 AM
"Tua Mater" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> Pat Styles > wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>> "Rural living is good living" > wrote in
> message
>> ...
>> >>>>>>steroid use by MLB players will force them to implement a legitimate
>> >>>>testing
>> >>>>>>program to try to clean up the sport.
>> >>>>>>ps
>> >
>> > Will FORCE them to implement... I thought you meant the government or
> public
>> > pressure would FORCE them, which I think is wrong.
>>
>> Why shouldn't the public, the people who are the consumers of the product,
> the
>> people who pay the admission, buy the concessions, and otherwise support
> the
>> game, put pressure on the game to clean itself up?
>> ps
>>
>
> personally, i have no problem with that. i have a problem with CONGRESS
> using the commerce clause to do that via legislation. that, imo, is absurd.
>
> but the consumers have every right (and even a duty, arguably) to demand
> accountability. they are the ones who support the sport. their opinion
> matters

Darn tootin'. I wonder if funbot will ever figure that out.
ps

Pat Styles
December 7th 04, 05:33 AM
"Tua Mater" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> Pat Styles > wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>>
>> "Rural living is good living" > wrote in
> message
>> ...
>> >>> >What I am
>> >>>>hopeful for is that the ongoing revelations of grand jury testimony
>> >>admitting
>> >>>>
>> >>>>steroid use by MLB players will force them to implement a legitimate
>> >>testing
>> >>>>program to try to clean up the sport.
>> >>>>ps
>> >>>
>> >>> And I'm hopeful that your mom cleans your mouth out with soap. Please
> try
>> >>to
>> >>> keep crap like that away from this newsgroup. Have a little respect
> man.
>> >>
>> >>wtf r u on about?
>> >>ps
>> >
>> >
>> > Let Baseball decide what it wants to do to these people.
>>
>> Shall we review? I said, "What I am hopeful for is that the ongoing
> revelations
>> of grand jury testimony admitting
>
> this brings up another question. gj testimony is SUPPOSED to be secret and
> sealed
>
> who the hell is leaking this stuff?
>
> whit

Oh, yeah, that is a huge issue! I wouldn't want to be the guy who gets found
out for doing it.
ps

Rural living is good living
December 7th 04, 08:56 AM
>> but the consumers have every right (and even a duty, arguably) to demand
>> accountability. they are the ones who support the sport. their opinion
>> matters

The consumers have a right to not buy the product. They also have the right to
speak out against anything. Sure. They don't have a duty to do anything,
though. I don't know what you mean by demand.

The government is confusing baseball fans. In small doses, steroid offer
several advantages to pro players, advantages that help prevent injuires, among
other things. The government is not allowing the full spread of ideas to come
out and is trying to force baseball fans, players, and owners to make rash
choices.

Many people in the government and much of the mainstream media are expressing
very biased (and unfactual) views on the issues.

Anyway, at least we agree that the government has not right to ever force tests
on MLB players. Frankly, I think members of Congress are the ones that really
need to be tested. The are the ones making the very important choices that
control our lives.
_______
"They charge you $15 if you fail to show for your 'free' appointment" by Lurker
on a Gold's Gym policy.

Tired of corrupt politicians and busybodies trying to run your life, family,
and property?
Visit http://www.freestateproject.com

Pat Styles
December 7th 04, 03:29 PM
> "Rural living is good living" > wrote in
> message ...

>>> Whit wrote this:
>>> but the consumers have every right (and even a duty, arguably) to demand
>>> accountability. they are the ones who support the sport. their opinion
>>> matters

If you're going to respond to Whit, don't follow up to one of my posts.

> The consumers have a right to not buy the product. They also have the right
> to
> speak out against anything. Sure. They don't have a duty to do anything,
> though. I don't know what you mean by demand.

Maybe you should look it up then.

> The government is confusing baseball fans. In small doses, steroid offer

Only because baseball fans, iow the general public, are easily confused. Sort
of like you.

> several advantages to pro players, advantages that help prevent injuires,
> among
> other things. The government is not allowing the full spread of ideas to come
> out and is trying to force baseball fans, players, and owners to make rash
> choices.

Right, it's a government conspiracy to prevent "the full spread of ideas..."
What's rash about banning performance enhancing substances in a competitive
sport?

> Many people in the government and much of the mainstream media are expressing
> very biased (and unfactual) views on the issues.

Of course, and this has always been the case relative to performance enhancing
drugs, afaicr. The media is full of ignorant people who are willing to publish
drivel because they're unwilling or unable to actually understand the issue.
Also, they feel have to dumb things down.
ps

Watson Davis
December 8th 04, 07:59 PM
"Tua Mater" > wrote in
nk.net:

>
> Art S > wrote in message
> ...
>>
> < snip >
>> You may be right <shrugs>.
>>
>> The drug testers were seeing the new drug Victor was selling - they
>> just didn't know what it was. That suggests that someone has
>> records, and somewhere along the line proof of who was taking his new
>> drug will be available.
>>
>> Art
>
> not unless they kept samples of her drugs to be tested with the new
> knowledge

I believe most labs keep these things for quite awhile. I don't think the
test usually use up all the sample.

And I think that Art was saying that some of the numbers in the result
looked odd and that you could just go back and look at where these odd
results started popping up. You could probably do that.

Watson (the pencil neck) Davis

Tua Mater
December 9th 04, 05:25 AM
Watson Davis > wrote in message
2.207...
> "Tua Mater" > wrote in
> nk.net:
>
> >
> > Art S > wrote in message
> > ...
> >>
> > < snip >
> >> You may be right <shrugs>.
> >>
> >> The drug testers were seeing the new drug Victor was selling - they
> >> just didn't know what it was. That suggests that someone has
> >> records, and somewhere along the line proof of who was taking his new
> >> drug will be available.
> >>
> >> Art
> >
> > not unless they kept samples of her drugs to be tested with the new
> > knowledge
>
> I believe most labs keep these things for quite awhile. I don't think the
> test usually use up all the sample.
>

that was a typo, btw. i meant her "blood" not her "drugs", although
considering how much THG etc. she was probably using, not much diff.

whit

> And I think that Art was saying that some of the numbers in the result
> looked odd and that you could just go back and look at where these odd
> results started popping up. You could probably do that.
>
> Watson (the pencil neck) Davis