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View Full Version : grip during pulling, esp dl's


hardworkin
September 22nd 03, 06:44 PM
My dl's aren't even close to what many of you would consider heavy
yet. But I'm noticing something. Changing the width of my grip
obviously changes the angle of the bar with respect to my forearms
which varies the percentage of the load my various forearm muscles are
holding. Do you heavy dl'ers focus on, or even notice which part of
your grip is the most stressed and accordingly try to maximize your
efficiency by holding the bar a certain way?
I think this question applies whether you use an overhand,
alternating, or hook grip.

As an aside, a friend asked me if heavy deadlifters hurt their elbow
or wrist joints at all by holding up so much weight. I said that it's
the muscles and tendons, not the joints that support the weight and
kind of blew off the issue. There isn't any more to it is there?

Thanks,
- HW

Hoff
September 22nd 03, 07:33 PM
"hardworkin" > wrote in message
om...
> My dl's aren't even close to what many of you would consider heavy
> yet. But I'm noticing something. Changing the width of my grip
> obviously changes the angle of the bar with respect to my forearms
> which varies the percentage of the load my various forearm muscles are
> holding. Do you heavy dl'ers focus on, or even notice which part of
> your grip is the most stressed and accordingly try to maximize your
> efficiency by holding the bar a certain way?
> I think this question applies whether you use an overhand,
> alternating, or hook grip.

Well, I'm FAR from a "heavy dl'er".

But, the main thing I try to do is get as narrow a grip as I can, that still
allows me to lockout. Closer hands, longer (relative) arms, less distance
to pull.

Hoff

Steve Freides
September 22nd 03, 08:14 PM
hardworkin wrote:
>
> My dl's aren't even close to what many of you would consider heavy
> yet. But I'm noticing something. Changing the width of my grip
> obviously changes the angle of the bar with respect to my forearms
> which varies the percentage of the load my various forearm muscles are
> holding. Do you heavy dl'ers focus on, or even notice which part of
> your grip is the most stressed and accordingly try to maximize your
> efficiency by holding the bar a certain way?
> I think this question applies whether you use an overhand,
> alternating, or hook grip.

Most of this sorts itself out with the passage of time and the lifting
of heavier weights. Personally, I use an overhand grip until about 80%
1RM or so then switch to alternating, but I'm no mega-DL'er, either.

> As an aside, a friend asked me if heavy deadlifters hurt their elbow
> or wrist joints at all by holding up so much weight. I said that it's
> the muscles and tendons, not the joints that support the weight and
> kind of blew off the issue. There isn't any more to it is there?

I have hurt my elbow by not keeping it locked out while DL'ing. Strange
as it might seem, you've got to flex your triceps while DL'ing to
protect your elbows. I didn't hurt the bones of the joint, just my
biceps tendon (at least that's what I think it is/was).

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

> Thanks,
> - HW

Lyle McDonald
September 22nd 03, 08:19 PM
Hoff wrote:
>
> "hardworkin" > wrote in message
> om...
> > My dl's aren't even close to what many of you would consider heavy
> > yet. But I'm noticing something. Changing the width of my grip
> > obviously changes the angle of the bar with respect to my forearms
> > which varies the percentage of the load my various forearm muscles are
> > holding. Do you heavy dl'ers focus on, or even notice which part of
> > your grip is the most stressed and accordingly try to maximize your
> > efficiency by holding the bar a certain way?
> > I think this question applies whether you use an overhand,
> > alternating, or hook grip.
>
> Well, I'm FAR from a "heavy dl'er".
>
> But, the main thing I try to do is get as narrow a grip as I can, that still
> allows me to lockout. Closer hands, longer (relative) arms, less distance
> to pull.

Except that you have to be careful not to over-narrow your stance which
will more than cancel out the effect. A happy medium, please.

Lyle

Jim
September 22nd 03, 08:32 PM
I've had good experiences doing Trap Bar Deadlifts, as described in Beyond
Brawn... Can use more weight w/o causing injury.

"hardworkin" > wrote in message
om...
> My dl's aren't even close to what many of you would consider heavy
> yet. But I'm noticing something. Changing the width of my grip
> obviously changes the angle of the bar with respect to my forearms
> which varies the percentage of the load my various forearm muscles are
> holding. Do you heavy dl'ers focus on, or even notice which part of
> your grip is the most stressed and accordingly try to maximize your
> efficiency by holding the bar a certain way?
> I think this question applies whether you use an overhand,
> alternating, or hook grip.
>
> As an aside, a friend asked me if heavy deadlifters hurt their elbow
> or wrist joints at all by holding up so much weight. I said that it's
> the muscles and tendons, not the joints that support the weight and
> kind of blew off the issue. There isn't any more to it is there?
>
> Thanks,
> - HW

Jim
September 22nd 03, 08:35 PM
I'd recommend trying Trap Bar Deadlifts, as described in Beyond Brawn. For
me, I can lift more weights and have had no injuries..

"hardworkin" > wrote in message
om...
> My dl's aren't even close to what many of you would consider heavy
> yet. But I'm noticing something. Changing the width of my grip
> obviously changes the angle of the bar with respect to my forearms
> which varies the percentage of the load my various forearm muscles are
> holding. Do you heavy dl'ers focus on, or even notice which part of
> your grip is the most stressed and accordingly try to maximize your
> efficiency by holding the bar a certain way?
> I think this question applies whether you use an overhand,
> alternating, or hook grip.
>
> As an aside, a friend asked me if heavy deadlifters hurt their elbow
> or wrist joints at all by holding up so much weight. I said that it's
> the muscles and tendons, not the joints that support the weight and
> kind of blew off the issue. There isn't any more to it is there?
>
> Thanks,
> - HW

Micky Snir
September 22nd 03, 08:41 PM
"Steve Freides" > wrote in message
...
> hardworkin wrote:
> >
> > My dl's aren't even close to what many of you would consider heavy
> > yet. But I'm noticing something. Changing the width of my grip
> > obviously changes the angle of the bar with respect to my forearms
> > which varies the percentage of the load my various forearm muscles are
> > holding. Do you heavy dl'ers focus on, or even notice which part of
> > your grip is the most stressed and accordingly try to maximize your
> > efficiency by holding the bar a certain way?
> > I think this question applies whether you use an overhand,
> > alternating, or hook grip.
>
> Most of this sorts itself out with the passage of time and the lifting
> of heavier weights. Personally, I use an overhand grip until about 80%
> 1RM or so then switch to alternating, but I'm no mega-DL'er, either.

You are too humble. 320 (or is it 340?) @ BW=153, for a guy that's *NOT* a
powerlifter, does lots of aerobics and other stuff is pretty much impressive
in my book.

Micky.

>
> > As an aside, a friend asked me if heavy deadlifters hurt their elbow
> > or wrist joints at all by holding up so much weight. I said that it's
> > the muscles and tendons, not the joints that support the weight and
> > kind of blew off the issue. There isn't any more to it is there?
>
> I have hurt my elbow by not keeping it locked out while DL'ing. Strange
> as it might seem, you've got to flex your triceps while DL'ing to
> protect your elbows. I didn't hurt the bones of the joint, just my
> biceps tendon (at least that's what I think it is/was).
>
> -S-
> http://www.kbnj.com
>
> > Thanks,
> > - HW

Randy Shrader
September 22nd 03, 09:18 PM
"Hoff" > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> Well, I'm FAR from a "heavy dl'er".
>
> But, the main thing I try to do is get as narrow a grip as I can, that
still
> allows me to lockout. Closer hands, longer (relative) arms, less distance
> to pull.
>
> Hoff
>

I find that I have to have my hands just about exactly shoulder width. Any
wider and they'd hit my knees, any narrower and my rear delts hurt like
hell. I guess a lifetime of menial, manual jobs is paying off though,
because at this point my (puny) 1RM isn't even close to challenging my grip
strength. Which is good, because sumo style with a mixed grip just plain
feels wrong and I don't want to try it unless I have to.

Randy




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Hoff
September 22nd 03, 09:20 PM
"Lyle McDonald" > wrote in message
...
> Hoff wrote:
> >
> > "hardworkin" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > > My dl's aren't even close to what many of you would consider heavy
> > > yet. But I'm noticing something. Changing the width of my grip
> > > obviously changes the angle of the bar with respect to my forearms
> > > which varies the percentage of the load my various forearm muscles are
> > > holding. Do you heavy dl'ers focus on, or even notice which part of
> > > your grip is the most stressed and accordingly try to maximize your
> > > efficiency by holding the bar a certain way?
> > > I think this question applies whether you use an overhand,
> > > alternating, or hook grip.
> >
> > Well, I'm FAR from a "heavy dl'er".
> >
> > But, the main thing I try to do is get as narrow a grip as I can, that
still
> > allows me to lockout. Closer hands, longer (relative) arms, less
distance
> > to pull.
>
> Except that you have to be careful not to over-narrow your stance which
> will more than cancel out the effect. A happy medium, please.

Yes, well, he didn't ASK about stance, now did he?

Personally, I just try to make sure my feet don't touch the plates ;)

I guess I don't look at deads as "grip" work, tho they obviously are (do?).
Even doing this borderline insane Russian routine, I haven't had a problem
with my grip failing. Last week was 6 sets of 6. Yeah, the weight was only
325, but I can remember when I could barely hold onto that for a single.

Hoff

David
September 22nd 03, 09:49 PM
i've never met a happy medium

"Lyle McDonald" > wrote in message
...
> Hoff wrote:
> >
> > "hardworkin" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > > My dl's aren't even close to what many of you would consider heavy
> > > yet. But I'm noticing something. Changing the width of my grip
> > > obviously changes the angle of the bar with respect to my forearms
> > > which varies the percentage of the load my various forearm muscles are
> > > holding. Do you heavy dl'ers focus on, or even notice which part of
> > > your grip is the most stressed and accordingly try to maximize your
> > > efficiency by holding the bar a certain way?
> > > I think this question applies whether you use an overhand,
> > > alternating, or hook grip.
> >
> > Well, I'm FAR from a "heavy dl'er".
> >
> > But, the main thing I try to do is get as narrow a grip as I can, that
still
> > allows me to lockout. Closer hands, longer (relative) arms, less
distance
> > to pull.
>
> Except that you have to be careful not to over-narrow your stance which
> will more than cancel out the effect. A happy medium, please.
>
> Lyle

Steve Freides
September 22nd 03, 10:05 PM
Micky Snir wrote:
>
> "Steve Freides" > wrote in message
> ...
> > hardworkin wrote:
> > >
> > > My dl's aren't even close to what many of you would consider heavy
> > > yet. But I'm noticing something. Changing the width of my grip
> > > obviously changes the angle of the bar with respect to my forearms
> > > which varies the percentage of the load my various forearm muscles are
> > > holding. Do you heavy dl'ers focus on, or even notice which part of
> > > your grip is the most stressed and accordingly try to maximize your
> > > efficiency by holding the bar a certain way?
> > > I think this question applies whether you use an overhand,
> > > alternating, or hook grip.
> >
> > Most of this sorts itself out with the passage of time and the lifting
> > of heavier weights. Personally, I use an overhand grip until about 80%
> > 1RM or so then switch to alternating, but I'm no mega-DL'er, either.
>
> You are too humble. 320 (or is it 340?) @ BW=153, for a guy that's *NOT* a
> powerlifter, does lots of aerobics and other stuff is pretty much impressive
> in my book.

325, but who's counting? <smile>

Thanks, Micky. I actually just picked up the bar for the first time
again a few days ago and am going to try to up that sometime this Fall.
325 isn't much, though; I'll feel accomplished when I get to 405, and
I'll feel content if I add another 10-20 lbs. this round. I'm planning
on about a 6 week cycle or so.

-S-

>
> Micky.
>
> >
> > > As an aside, a friend asked me if heavy deadlifters hurt their elbow
> > > or wrist joints at all by holding up so much weight. I said that it's
> > > the muscles and tendons, not the joints that support the weight and
> > > kind of blew off the issue. There isn't any more to it is there?
> >
> > I have hurt my elbow by not keeping it locked out while DL'ing. Strange
> > as it might seem, you've got to flex your triceps while DL'ing to
> > protect your elbows. I didn't hurt the bones of the joint, just my
> > biceps tendon (at least that's what I think it is/was).
> >
> > -S-
> > http://www.kbnj.com
> >
> > > Thanks,
> > > - HW

ignorcrew
September 22nd 03, 10:08 PM
(hardworkin) wrote in message >...
> My dl's aren't even close to what many of you would consider heavy
> yet. But I'm noticing something. Changing the width of my grip
> obviously changes the angle of the bar with respect to my forearms
> which varies the percentage of the load my various forearm muscles are
> holding. Do you heavy dl'ers focus on, or even notice which part of
> your grip is the most stressed and accordingly try to maximize your
> efficiency by holding the bar a certain way?
> I think this question applies whether you use an overhand,
> alternating, or hook grip.
>
> As an aside, a friend asked me if heavy deadlifters hurt their elbow
> or wrist joints at all by holding up so much weight. I said that it's
> the muscles and tendons, not the joints that support the weight and
> kind of blew off the issue. There isn't any more to it is there?
>
> Thanks,
> - HW

Try using simple wrist straps. They help tramendously.

Lyle McDonald
September 22nd 03, 10:14 PM
Hoff wrote:
>
> "Lyle McDonald" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Hoff wrote:
> > >
> > > "hardworkin" > wrote in message
> > > om...
> > > > My dl's aren't even close to what many of you would consider heavy
> > > > yet. But I'm noticing something. Changing the width of my grip
> > > > obviously changes the angle of the bar with respect to my forearms
> > > > which varies the percentage of the load my various forearm muscles are
> > > > holding. Do you heavy dl'ers focus on, or even notice which part of
> > > > your grip is the most stressed and accordingly try to maximize your
> > > > efficiency by holding the bar a certain way?
> > > > I think this question applies whether you use an overhand,
> > > > alternating, or hook grip.
> > >
> > > Well, I'm FAR from a "heavy dl'er".
> > >
> > > But, the main thing I try to do is get as narrow a grip as I can, that
> still
> > > allows me to lockout. Closer hands, longer (relative) arms, less
> distance
> > > to pull.
> >
> > Except that you have to be careful not to over-narrow your stance which
> > will more than cancel out the effect. A happy medium, please.
>
> Yes, well, he didn't ASK about stance, now did he?

No, he did not.
Dick.

But it's obviously a consideration. YOu can g a nice narrow grip if you
start with your feet touching (I've seen it) but I don't think you'll
argue that it's a particularly good way to DL.

> I guess I don't look at deads as "grip" work, tho they obviously are (do?).
> Even doing this borderline insane Russian routine, I haven't had a problem
> with my grip failing. Last week was 6 sets of 6. Yeah, the weight was only
> 325, but I can remember when I could barely hold onto that for a single.

All that masturbation is paying off.

Lyle

Lyle McDonald
September 22nd 03, 10:14 PM
David wrote:
>
> i've never met a happy medium

a. don't top post, it's annoying
b. I agree, they tend to be of the somber/melancholy disposition.

Lyle

> "Lyle McDonald" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Hoff wrote:
> > >
> > > "hardworkin" > wrote in message
> > > om...
> > > > My dl's aren't even close to what many of you would consider heavy
> > > > yet. But I'm noticing something. Changing the width of my grip
> > > > obviously changes the angle of the bar with respect to my forearms
> > > > which varies the percentage of the load my various forearm muscles are
> > > > holding. Do you heavy dl'ers focus on, or even notice which part of
> > > > your grip is the most stressed and accordingly try to maximize your
> > > > efficiency by holding the bar a certain way?
> > > > I think this question applies whether you use an overhand,
> > > > alternating, or hook grip.
> > >
> > > Well, I'm FAR from a "heavy dl'er".
> > >
> > > But, the main thing I try to do is get as narrow a grip as I can, that
> still
> > > allows me to lockout. Closer hands, longer (relative) arms, less
> distance
> > > to pull.
> >
> > Except that you have to be careful not to over-narrow your stance which
> > will more than cancel out the effect. A happy medium, please.
> >
> > Lyle

Dave H
September 22nd 03, 10:20 PM
"ignorcrew" > wrote in message
om...
> (hardworkin) wrote in message
>...
> > My dl's aren't even close to what many of you would consider heavy
> > yet. But I'm noticing something. Changing the width of my grip
> > obviously changes the angle of the bar with respect to my forearms
> > which varies the percentage of the load my various forearm muscles are
> > holding. Do you heavy dl'ers focus on, or even notice which part of
> > your grip is the most stressed and accordingly try to maximize your
> > efficiency by holding the bar a certain way?
> > I think this question applies whether you use an overhand,
> > alternating, or hook grip.
> >
> > As an aside, a friend asked me if heavy deadlifters hurt their elbow
> > or wrist joints at all by holding up so much weight. I said that it's
> > the muscles and tendons, not the joints that support the weight and
> > kind of blew off the issue. There isn't any more to it is there?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > - HW
>
> Try using simple wrist straps. They help tramendously.

However, using wrist straps will not help to strengthen your grip. I can
see using them the last set or two to work the other muscles fully, but
don't use them all the time.

dave h

David
September 22nd 03, 10:20 PM
it's better on top

"Lyle McDonald" > wrote in message
...
> David wrote:
> >
> > i've never met a happy medium
>
> a. don't top post, it's annoying
> b. I agree, they tend to be of the somber/melancholy disposition.
>
> Lyle
>
> > "Lyle McDonald" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Hoff wrote:
> > > >
> > > > "hardworkin" > wrote in message
> > > > om...
> > > > > My dl's aren't even close to what many of you would consider heavy
> > > > > yet. But I'm noticing something. Changing the width of my grip
> > > > > obviously changes the angle of the bar with respect to my forearms
> > > > > which varies the percentage of the load my various forearm muscles
are
> > > > > holding. Do you heavy dl'ers focus on, or even notice which part
of
> > > > > your grip is the most stressed and accordingly try to maximize
your
> > > > > efficiency by holding the bar a certain way?
> > > > > I think this question applies whether you use an overhand,
> > > > > alternating, or hook grip.
> > > >
> > > > Well, I'm FAR from a "heavy dl'er".
> > > >
> > > > But, the main thing I try to do is get as narrow a grip as I can,
that
> > still
> > > > allows me to lockout. Closer hands, longer (relative) arms, less
> > distance
> > > > to pull.
> > >
> > > Except that you have to be careful not to over-narrow your stance
which
> > > will more than cancel out the effect. A happy medium, please.
> > >
> > > Lyle

Mikelle Fischer
September 22nd 03, 10:23 PM
David wrote:
> it's better on top

That's what she said...

David
September 22nd 03, 10:27 PM
"Mikelle Fischer" > wrote in message
...
> David wrote:
> > it's better on top
>
> That's what she said...
>
you are probably the only one who got it

David
September 22nd 03, 11:09 PM
"DZ" > wrote in message
...
> David > wrote:
> > "Mikelle Fischer" > wrote
> > > David wrote:
> > > > it's better on top
> > >
> > > That's what she said...
> > >
> > you are probably the only one who got it
>
> satisfaction?

guaranteed

Hoff
September 22nd 03, 11:10 PM
"Lyle McDonald" > wrote in message
...
> Hoff wrote:
> >
> > "Lyle McDonald" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Hoff wrote:
> > > >
> > > > "hardworkin" > wrote in message
> > > > om...
> > > > > My dl's aren't even close to what many of you would consider heavy
> > > > > yet. But I'm noticing something. Changing the width of my grip
> > > > > obviously changes the angle of the bar with respect to my forearms
> > > > > which varies the percentage of the load my various forearm muscles
are
> > > > > holding. Do you heavy dl'ers focus on, or even notice which part
of
> > > > > your grip is the most stressed and accordingly try to maximize
your
> > > > > efficiency by holding the bar a certain way?
> > > > > I think this question applies whether you use an overhand,
> > > > > alternating, or hook grip.
> > > >
> > > > Well, I'm FAR from a "heavy dl'er".
> > > >
> > > > But, the main thing I try to do is get as narrow a grip as I can,
that
> > still
> > > > allows me to lockout. Closer hands, longer (relative) arms, less
> > distance
> > > > to pull.
> > >
> > > Except that you have to be careful not to over-narrow your stance
which
> > > will more than cancel out the effect. A happy medium, please.
> >
> > Yes, well, he didn't ASK about stance, now did he?
>
> No, he did not.
> Dick.

That's Sir Dick to you.

>
> But it's obviously a consideration. YOu can g a nice narrow grip if you
> start with your feet touching (I've seen it) but I don't think you'll
> argue that it's a particularly good way to DL.

Yes, you're right (is that what you wanted to hear?).

Sharon will start dealing with that this week. She's been training sumo,
but this week will switch over to conv.

She switched AT the meet in April, which worked out OK. But it should work
out better giving her a few weeks to actually work on her conventional DL.

>
> > I guess I don't look at deads as "grip" work, tho they obviously are
(do?).
> > Even doing this borderline insane Russian routine, I haven't had a
problem
> > with my grip failing. Last week was 6 sets of 6. Yeah, the weight was
only
> > 325, but I can remember when I could barely hold onto that for a single.
>
> All that masturbation is paying off.
>

Like I told Styles, I'm a little out of practice. And the lighter touch is
better, in any case.

Hoff

Proton Soup
September 22nd 03, 11:12 PM
On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 21:27:15 GMT, "David" >
wrote:

>
>"Mikelle Fischer" > wrote in message
...
>> David wrote:
>> > it's better on top
>>
>> That's what she said...
>>
>you are probably the only one who got it
>

I've never been a bottom, so I wouldn't know.

Proton Soup

Mikelle Fischer
September 22nd 03, 11:13 PM
David wrote:
> "Mikelle Fischer" > wrote in message
> ...
>> David wrote:
>>> it's better on top
>>
>> That's what she said...
>>
> you are probably the only one who got it

Yeah, well...my mind works like that... ;-)

David
September 22nd 03, 11:19 PM
"Mikelle Fischer" > wrote in message
...
> David wrote:
> > "Mikelle Fischer" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> David wrote:
> >>> it's better on top
> >>
> >> That's what she said...
> >>
> > you are probably the only one who got it
>
> Yeah, well...my mind works like that... ;-)
>
. . .if the rest of you works as well . . . hmmm

Lyle McDonald
September 22nd 03, 11:22 PM
Hoff wrote:
>
> "Lyle McDonald" > wrote in message
> ...

> > > > > But, the main thing I try to do is get as narrow a grip as I can,
> that
> > > still
> > > > > allows me to lockout. Closer hands, longer (relative) arms, less
> > > distance
> > > > > to pull.
> > > >
> > > > Except that you have to be careful not to over-narrow your stance
> which
> > > > will more than cancel out the effect. A happy medium, please.
> > >
> > > Yes, well, he didn't ASK about stance, now did he?
> >
> > No, he did not.
> > Dick.
>
> That's Sir Dick to you.

Yes sir, dick.

>
> >
> > But it's obviously a consideration. YOu can g a nice narrow grip if you
> > start with your feet touching (I've seen it) but I don't think you'll
> > argue that it's a particularly good way to DL.
>
> Yes, you're right (is that what you wanted to hear?).

That and 'Ooh, baby, you're the biggest.'

> She switched AT the meet in April, which worked out OK. But it should work
> out better giving her a few weeks to actually work on her conventional DL.

Yeah, just a little.
Don't generally wann try completely new stuff on meet day.

Lyle

Mikelle Fischer
September 22nd 03, 11:34 PM
David wrote:
> "Mikelle Fischer" > wrote in message
> ...
>> David wrote:
>>> "Mikelle Fischer" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> David wrote:
>>>>> it's better on top
>>>>
>>>> That's what she said...
>>>>
>>> you are probably the only one who got it
>>
>> Yeah, well...my mind works like that... ;-)
>>
> . . .if the rest of you works as well . . . hmmm

LOL

Hoff
September 22nd 03, 11:50 PM
"Lyle McDonald" > wrote in message
...
> Hoff wrote:
> >
> > "Lyle McDonald" > wrote in message
> > ...
>
> > > > > > But, the main thing I try to do is get as narrow a grip as I
can,
> > that
> > > > still
> > > > > > allows me to lockout. Closer hands, longer (relative) arms,
less
> > > > distance
> > > > > > to pull.
> > > > >
> > > > > Except that you have to be careful not to over-narrow your stance
> > which
> > > > > will more than cancel out the effect. A happy medium, please.
> > > >
> > > > Yes, well, he didn't ASK about stance, now did he?
> > >
> > > No, he did not.
> > > Dick.
> >
> > That's Sir Dick to you.
>
> Yes sir, dick.
>
> >
> > >
> > > But it's obviously a consideration. YOu can g a nice narrow grip if
you
> > > start with your feet touching (I've seen it) but I don't think you'll
> > > argue that it's a particularly good way to DL.
> >
> > Yes, you're right (is that what you wanted to hear?).
>
> That and 'Ooh, baby, you're the biggest.'

Well, thanks. I guess.

>
> > She switched AT the meet in April, which worked out OK. But it should
work
> > out better giving her a few weeks to actually work on her conventional
DL.
>
> Yeah, just a little.
> Don't generally wann try completely new stuff on meet day.
>

It wasn't completely new. She used to lift conv, but had been training
sumo. She messed up with a faily low weight during warmups (like 225 or
so), and it shook her. So we switched back to conv, and she pulled a 20 lbs
PR.

Sort of like those old Reeses Cups commercials, where the the kid
accidentally dips the chocolate bar into the peanut butter. We thought,
hmm, this worked out pretty well. Maybe we should try it with more of a
plan ;)

Hoff
> Lyle

Jay McKeen
September 23rd 03, 12:03 AM
"David" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Mikelle Fischer" > wrote in message
> ...
> > David wrote:
> > > it's better on top
> >
> > That's what she said...
> >
> you are probably the only one who got it
>
>

I'll bet you're right. Very deep double entendre, difficult to discern.

David
September 23rd 03, 12:07 AM
"Jay McKeen" > wrote in message
...
>
> "David" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Mikelle Fischer" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > David wrote:
> > > > it's better on top
> > >
> > > That's what she said...
> > >
> > you are probably the only one who got it
> >
> >
>
> I'll bet you're right. Very deep double entendre, difficult to discern.
>
any time you need an explanation just ask

Lyle McDonald
September 23rd 03, 12:28 AM
Hoff wrote:
>
> "Lyle McDonald" > wrote in message
> ...

> > > She switched AT the meet in April, which worked out OK. But it should
> work
> > > out better giving her a few weeks to actually work on her conventional
> DL.
> >
> > Yeah, just a little.
> > Don't generally wann try completely new stuff on meet day.
> >
>
> It wasn't completely new. She used to lift conv, but had been training
> sumo. She messed up with a faily low weight during warmups (like 225 or
> so), and it shook her. So we switched back to conv, and she pulled a 20 lbs
> PR.

Still, there is a huge learning issue. I find that even a week way from
some movements means my form goes to ****.

meaning: she probably would have pulled even more if she'd been trianing
conv. consistently.

>
> Sort of like those old Reeses Cups commercials, where the the kid
> accidentally dips the chocolate bar into the peanut butter. We thought,
> hmm, this worked out pretty well. Maybe we should try it with more of a
> plan ;)

What I've always found intersting (and Keith may want to comment on this
if for no other reason than to correct me): in theory, sumo should let
you pull more weight. But most records are set conventional. weird.

Lyle

David Cohen
September 23rd 03, 12:39 AM
"Jay McKeen" > wrote
> "David" > wrote
> > "Mikelle Fischer" > wrote
> > > David wrote:
> > > > it's better on top
> > >
> > > That's what she said...
> > >
> > you are probably the only one who got it

> I'll bet you're right. Very deep double entendre, difficult to
discern.

We r stoopid. Goud thing we hav peepl nammed David to splain stuff.

David
--
I we Todd did.
I sofa king we Todd did.

Hoff
September 23rd 03, 12:40 AM
"Lyle McDonald" > wrote in message
...
> Hoff wrote:
> >
> > "Lyle McDonald" > wrote in message
> > ...
>
> > > > She switched AT the meet in April, which worked out OK. But it
should
> > work
> > > > out better giving her a few weeks to actually work on her
conventional
> > DL.
> > >
> > > Yeah, just a little.
> > > Don't generally wann try completely new stuff on meet day.
> > >
> >
> > It wasn't completely new. She used to lift conv, but had been training
> > sumo. She messed up with a faily low weight during warmups (like 225 or
> > so), and it shook her. So we switched back to conv, and she pulled a 20
lbs
> > PR.
>
> Still, there is a huge learning issue. I find that even a week way from
> some movements means my form goes to ****.
>
> meaning: she probably would have pulled even more if she'd been trianing
> conv. consistently.
>

Oh, I'm sure. This time around, she'll have 5 weeks pulling conventional
going into the meet.

See how the meet goes. I keep telling her 315 is her goal, but she may go
for 325. And probably get it.

> >
> > Sort of like those old Reeses Cups commercials, where the the kid
> > accidentally dips the chocolate bar into the peanut butter. We thought,
> > hmm, this worked out pretty well. Maybe we should try it with more of a
> > plan ;)
>
> What I've always found intersting (and Keith may want to comment on this
> if for no other reason than to correct me): in theory, sumo should let
> you pull more weight. But most records are set conventional. weird.
>

Dunno. I do know that the times I've tried pulling conventional since
switching to sumo, it seems like such a loooonngg distance to pull.

But Sharon can definitely pull more conventional.

Hoff

David
September 23rd 03, 12:45 AM
"David Cohen" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> "Jay McKeen" > wrote
> > "David" > wrote
> > > "Mikelle Fischer" > wrote
> > > > David wrote:
> > > > > it's better on top
> > > >
> > > > That's what she said...
> > > >
> > > you are probably the only one who got it
>
> > I'll bet you're right. Very deep double entendre, difficult to
> discern.
>
> We r stoopid. Goud thing we hav peepl nammed David to splain stuff.
>
> David
> --
> I we Todd did.
> I sofa king we Todd did.
>
wow I am impressed - another one crawling out of the woodwork who seems to
have got it - and here I thought I was dealing with inbred retards all this
time

David
September 23rd 03, 12:51 AM
"David" > wrote in message
...
>
> "David Cohen" > wrote in message
> nk.net...
> >
> > "Jay McKeen" > wrote
> > > "David" > wrote
> > > > "Mikelle Fischer" > wrote
> > > > > David wrote:
> > > > > > it's better on top
> > > > >
> > > > > That's what she said...
> > > > >
> > > > you are probably the only one who got it
> >
> > > I'll bet you're right. Very deep double entendre, difficult to
> > discern.
> >
> > We r stoopid. Goud thing we hav peepl nammed David to splain stuff.
> >
> > David
> > --
> > I we Todd did.
> > I sofa king we Todd did.
> >
just to help you out . . . stoopid is not spelled like that - sometimes
words are spelled different from what they sound -
stewpid
>

DanL
September 23rd 03, 01:12 AM
"hardworkin" > wrote in message
om...
> My dl's aren't even close to what many of you would consider heavy
> yet. But I'm noticing something. Changing the width of my grip
> obviously changes the angle of the bar with respect to my forearms
> which varies the percentage of the load my various forearm muscles are
> holding. Do you heavy dl'ers focus on, or even notice which part of
> your grip is the most stressed and accordingly try to maximize your
> efficiency by holding the bar a certain way?
> I think this question applies whether you use an overhand,
> alternating, or hook grip.

I hold the bar the same way every time. I pull conventional style and have
my grip as close to my body as possible. The closer your grip, the farther
down your arms hang. I haven't ever had any grip problems but I tend to do
no more than 3 to 5 reps in a set for deads, so grip isn't as much a factor.
I use and alternating grip. You don't want to be "choking" the bar, gripping
it so hard that your forearms get sore. Your fingers are almost like hooks
holding it, and then you wrap your thumb over your 1st 2 or maybe 3 fingers.
Lots of chalk helps too.
>
> As an aside, a friend asked me if heavy deadlifters hurt their elbow
> or wrist joints at all by holding up so much weight. I said that it's
> the muscles and tendons, not the joints that support the weight and
> kind of blew off the issue. There isn't any more to it is there?

I'm a moderately heavy deadlifter so I can't speak for people who are
pulling 700 or more, but I've never had wrist or elbow problems from deads.
I've heard of more lifters having bicep issues because they don't keep their
arms straight- they tend to try and pull the bar up with their arms. A good
habit to get into is to get your arms locked before you start the pull by
flexing your triceps. This will prevent you from trying to use your biceps
to pull the weight.

Dan

DanL
September 23rd 03, 02:16 AM
"Hoff" > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Dunno. I do know that the times I've tried pulling conventional since
> switching to sumo, it seems like such a loooonngg distance to pull.
>
> But Sharon can definitely pull more conventional.
>
> Hoff
>
It's all about your leverages and what feels comfortable to you. With my
build I should be able to pull better sumo but it just doesn't feel right.
On the other hand, my son, who is built very similarly to me, can pull great
sumo and hates conventional. He says the same thing you say, that it feels
like he's pulling forever when he goes conventional. I still have him do
conventional work to get the upper back benefit that conventionals give. And
plate deads conventional just to be a mean SOB... :)

Rambo Four Sythia
September 23rd 03, 02:21 AM
"DanL" > writes:

....
> I hold the bar the same way every time. I pull conventional style and have
> my grip as close to my body as possible. The closer your grip, the farther
> down your arms hang. I haven't ever had any grip problems but I tend to do
> no more than 3 to 5 reps in a set for deads, so grip isn't as much a factor.
> I use and alternating grip. You don't want to be "choking" the bar, gripping
> it so hard that your forearms get sore. Your fingers are almost like hooks
> holding it, and then you wrap your thumb over your 1st 2 or maybe 3 fingers.
> Lots of chalk helps too.

Do any powerlifters use the hook grip on deads?

>> As an aside, a friend asked me if heavy deadlifters hurt their elbow
>> or wrist joints at all by holding up so much weight. I said that it's
>> the muscles and tendons, not the joints that support the weight and
>> kind of blew off the issue. There isn't any more to it is there?
>
> I'm a moderately heavy deadlifter so I can't speak for people who are
> pulling 700 or more, but I've never had wrist or elbow problems from deads.
> I've heard of more lifters having bicep issues because they don't keep their
> arms straight- they tend to try and pull the bar up with their arms. A good
> habit to get into is to get your arms locked before you start the pull by
> flexing your triceps. This will prevent you from trying to use your biceps
> to pull the weight.

I wonder if that's how Keith Hobman tore his bicep, something I
wouldn't wish on anyone! Keith?

--
R4S

September 23rd 03, 07:15 AM
On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 21:21:55 -0400, Rambo Four Sythia
> wrote:

>"DanL" > writes:
>
>...
>> I hold the bar the same way every time. I pull conventional style and have
>> my grip as close to my body as possible. The closer your grip, the farther
>> down your arms hang. I haven't ever had any grip problems but I tend to do
>> no more than 3 to 5 reps in a set for deads, so grip isn't as much a factor.
>> I use and alternating grip. You don't want to be "choking" the bar, gripping
>> it so hard that your forearms get sore. Your fingers are almost like hooks
>> holding it, and then you wrap your thumb over your 1st 2 or maybe 3 fingers.
>> Lots of chalk helps too.
>
>Do any powerlifters use the hook grip on deads?

Well, it wouldn't be for bench or squat. :)

>
>>> As an aside, a friend asked me if heavy deadlifters hurt their elbow
>>> or wrist joints at all by holding up so much weight. I said that it's
>>> the muscles and tendons, not the joints that support the weight and
>>> kind of blew off the issue. There isn't any more to it is there?
>>
>> I'm a moderately heavy deadlifter so I can't speak for people who are
>> pulling 700 or more, but I've never had wrist or elbow problems from deads.
>> I've heard of more lifters having bicep issues because they don't keep their
>> arms straight- they tend to try and pull the bar up with their arms. A good
>> habit to get into is to get your arms locked before you start the pull by
>> flexing your triceps. This will prevent you from trying to use your biceps
>> to pull the weight.
>
>I wonder if that's how Keith Hobman tore his bicep, something I
>wouldn't wish on anyone! Keith?

Well, it wouldn't be bench or squat. :) (sorry, it just fit.
couldn't help it)

Lyle McDonald
September 23rd 03, 02:12 PM
Hoff wrote:
>
> "Lyle McDonald" > wrote in message

> > > It wasn't completely new. She used to lift conv, but had been training
> > > sumo. She messed up with a faily low weight during warmups (like 225 or
> > > so), and it shook her. So we switched back to conv, and she pulled a 20
> lbs
> > > PR.
> >
> > Still, there is a huge learning issue. I find that even a week way from
> > some movements means my form goes to ****.
> >
> > meaning: she probably would have pulled even more if she'd been trianing
> > conv. consistently.
> >
>
> Oh, I'm sure. This time around, she'll have 5 weeks pulling conventional
> going into the meet.

Good boy.
<pat on head>

Lyle
why am I awake

Lyle McDonald
September 23rd 03, 02:13 PM
DanL wrote:
>
> "Hoff" > wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> > Dunno. I do know that the times I've tried pulling conventional since
> > switching to sumo, it seems like such a loooonngg distance to pull.
> >
> > But Sharon can definitely pull more conventional.
> >
> > Hoff
> >
> It's all about your leverages and what feels comfortable to you. With my
> build I should be able to pull better sumo but it just doesn't feel right.
> On the other hand, my son, who is built very similarly to me, can pull great
> sumo and hates conventional. He says the same thing you say, that it feels
> like he's pulling forever when he goes conventional. I still have him do
> conventional work to get the upper back benefit that conventionals give. And
> plate deads conventional just to be a mean SOB... :)

And where were your competition lifts, again, Dano?
Wanna see how they stack up against my 'pathetic' raw lifts.

Lyle

Kirk Roy
September 23rd 03, 02:33 PM
Lyle McDonald > wrote:
> But it's obviously a consideration. YOu can g a nice narrow grip if you
> start with your feet touching (I've seen it) but I don't think you'll
> argue that it's a particularly good way to DL.

Here's a pic of an elite lifter who keeps his heels together when DLing:
http://users.vei.net/kirk/lusby/HankDL2.jpg

It's the first time I'd seen someone lift like that... While not a record
setting lift 760 @ 275 is still pretty good... I'm not knowledgeable
enough to say if he could do better with different form.

Kirk

Lyle McDonald
September 23rd 03, 03:23 PM
Kirk Roy wrote:
>
> Lyle McDonald > wrote:
> > But it's obviously a consideration. YOu can g a nice narrow grip if you
> > start with your feet touching (I've seen it) but I don't think you'll
> > argue that it's a particularly good way to DL.
>
> Here's a pic of an elite lifter who keeps his heels together when DLing:
> http://users.vei.net/kirk/lusby/HankDL2.jpg
>
> It's the first time I'd seen someone lift like that... While not a record
> setting lift 760 @ 275 is still pretty good... I'm not knowledgeable
> enough to say if he could do better with different form.

Exceptions to every rule can always be found.

At one point, there were some Japanese OL's who started their clean with
heels touching, called the frog stance. They had the right combo of
biomecahnics and limb lenghts to make it work. Most people probably do not.

One exception does not change the general truth of a comment.

Lyle

David Cohen
September 23rd 03, 04:25 PM
"Lyle McDonald" > wrote
> Kirk Roy wrote:
> > Lyle McDonald > wrote:
> > > But it's obviously a consideration. YOu can g a nice narrow
grip if you
> > > start with your feet touching (I've seen it) but I don't think
you'll
> > > argue that it's a particularly good way to DL.
> >
> > Here's a pic of an elite lifter who keeps his heels together when
DLing:
> > http://users.vei.net/kirk/lusby/HankDL2.jpg
> >
> > It's the first time I'd seen someone lift like that... While not a
record
> > setting lift 760 @ 275 is still pretty good... I'm not
knowledgeable
> > enough to say if he could do better with different form.
>
> Exceptions to every rule can always be found.

Please cite an example of an exception to the rule: "exceptions to
every rule can always be found".

David

Mikelle Fischer
September 23rd 03, 04:33 PM
David Cohen wrote:
> "Lyle McDonald" > wrote
>> Kirk Roy wrote:
>>> Lyle McDonald > wrote:
>>>> But it's obviously a consideration. YOu can g a nice narrow grip
>>>> if you start with your feet touching (I've seen it) but I don't
>>>> think you'll argue that it's a particularly good way to DL.
>>>
>>> Here's a pic of an elite lifter who keeps his heels together when
>>> DLing: http://users.vei.net/kirk/lusby/HankDL2.jpg
>>>
>>> It's the first time I'd seen someone lift like that... While not a
>>> record setting lift 760 @ 275 is still pretty good... I'm not
>>> knowledgeable enough to say if he could do better with different
>>> form.
>>
>> Exceptions to every rule can always be found.
>
> Please cite an example of an exception to the rule: "exceptions to
> every rule can always be found".
>
> David

You just did.

Jason Burnell
September 23rd 03, 04:39 PM
hardworkin wrote:
> My dl's aren't even close to what many of you would consider heavy
> yet. But I'm noticing something. Changing the width of my grip
> obviously changes the angle of the bar with respect to my forearms
> which varies the percentage of the load my various forearm muscles are
> holding. Do you heavy dl'ers focus on, or even notice which part of
> your grip is the most stressed and accordingly try to maximize your
> efficiency by holding the bar a certain way?

No.

> I think this question applies whether you use an overhand,
> alternating, or hook grip.

Most people use an alternating grip. Some are using a hook grip now to
alleviate back problems (twisting, helicoptering etc). Very few use a
double overhand grip without a hook.
>
> As an aside, a friend asked me if heavy deadlifters hurt their elbow
> or wrist joints at all by holding up so much weight. I said that it's
> the muscles and tendons, not the joints that support the weight and
> kind of blew off the issue. There isn't any more to it is there?

Dont' know but I don't know anyone that has hurt their wrist or elbows
while deadlifting.
>
> Thanks,
> - HW

--
Jason Burnell

http://www.deepsquatter.com

Jason Burnell
September 23rd 03, 04:47 PM
Lyle McDonald wrote:

> Hoff wrote:
>
>>"Lyle McDonald" > wrote in message
...
>
>
>>>>She switched AT the meet in April, which worked out OK. But it should
>>
>>work
>>
>>>>out better giving her a few weeks to actually work on her conventional
>>
>>DL.
>>
>>>Yeah, just a little.
>>>Don't generally wann try completely new stuff on meet day.
>>>
>>
>>It wasn't completely new. She used to lift conv, but had been training
>>sumo. She messed up with a faily low weight during warmups (like 225 or
>>so), and it shook her. So we switched back to conv, and she pulled a 20 lbs
>>PR.
>
>
> Still, there is a huge learning issue. I find that even a week way from
> some movements means my form goes to ****.
>
> meaning: she probably would have pulled even more if she'd been trianing
> conv. consistently.
>
>
>>Sort of like those old Reeses Cups commercials, where the the kid
>>accidentally dips the chocolate bar into the peanut butter. We thought,
>>hmm, this worked out pretty well. Maybe we should try it with more of a
>>plan ;)
>
>
> What I've always found intersting (and Keith may want to comment on this
> if for no other reason than to correct me): in theory, sumo should let
> you pull more weight. But most records are set conventional. weird.
>
> Lyle

Lamar Gant - severe scoliosis that allows his back to bend into a
question mark with pullling. Combine that with arms that allow
scratching of the knee while standing fully erect.

Garry Heisey - Gorrila arms

Vince Anello - freaky hinging back that bends to a humplike thing when
he pulls.

Some of the best conventional pullers are just built wierd. Gorilla
length arms goes a long way.

I think sumo helps average guys to pull more than they would
conventional (but some people never seem to be able to pull sumo) but yo
just can't beat the gorilla armed pullers.
--
Jason Burnell

http://www.deepsquatter.com

Lyle McDonald
September 23rd 03, 05:03 PM
David Cohen wrote:
>
> "Lyle McDonald" > wrote
> > Kirk Roy wrote:
> > > Lyle McDonald > wrote:
> > > > But it's obviously a consideration. YOu can g a nice narrow
> grip if you
> > > > start with your feet touching (I've seen it) but I don't think
> you'll
> > > > argue that it's a particularly good way to DL.
> > >
> > > Here's a pic of an elite lifter who keeps his heels together when
> DLing:
> > > http://users.vei.net/kirk/lusby/HankDL2.jpg
> > >
> > > It's the first time I'd seen someone lift like that... While not a
> record
> > > setting lift 760 @ 275 is still pretty good... I'm not
> knowledgeable
> > > enough to say if he could do better with different form.
> >
> > Exceptions to every rule can always be found.
>
> Please cite an example of an exception to the rule: "exceptions to
> every rule can always be found".

Shut up, jew.

Lyle

Lyle McDonald
September 23rd 03, 05:04 PM
Jason Burnell wrote:
>
> Lyle McDonald wrote:
>
> > Hoff wrote:
> >
> >>"Lyle McDonald" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >
> >>>>She switched AT the meet in April, which worked out OK. But it should
> >>
> >>work
> >>
> >>>>out better giving her a few weeks to actually work on her conventional
> >>
> >>DL.
> >>
> >>>Yeah, just a little.
> >>>Don't generally wann try completely new stuff on meet day.
> >>>
> >>
> >>It wasn't completely new. She used to lift conv, but had been training
> >>sumo. She messed up with a faily low weight during warmups (like 225 or
> >>so), and it shook her. So we switched back to conv, and she pulled a 20 lbs
> >>PR.
> >
> >
> > Still, there is a huge learning issue. I find that even a week way from
> > some movements means my form goes to ****.
> >
> > meaning: she probably would have pulled even more if she'd been trianing
> > conv. consistently.
> >
> >
> >>Sort of like those old Reeses Cups commercials, where the the kid
> >>accidentally dips the chocolate bar into the peanut butter. We thought,
> >>hmm, this worked out pretty well. Maybe we should try it with more of a
> >>plan ;)
> >
> >
> > What I've always found intersting (and Keith may want to comment on this
> > if for no other reason than to correct me): in theory, sumo should let
> > you pull more weight. But most records are set conventional. weird.
> >
> > Lyle
>
> Lamar Gant - severe scoliosis that allows his back to bend into a
> question mark with pullling. Combine that with arms that allow
> scratching of the knee while standing fully erect.
>
> Garry Heisey - Gorrila arms
>
> Vince Anello - freaky hinging back that bends to a humplike thing when
> he pulls.
>
> Some of the best conventional pullers are just built wierd. Gorilla
> length arms goes a long way.
>
> I think sumo helps average guys to pull more than they would
> conventional (but some people never seem to be able to pull sumo) but yo
> just can't beat the gorilla armed pullers.

Nope.

Lyle
got the monkey arms himself

DanL
September 23rd 03, 08:44 PM
"Lyle McDonald" > wrote in message
...
> DanL wrote:
>
> And where were your competition lifts, again, Dano?
> Wanna see how they stack up against my 'pathetic' raw lifts.
>
I've already replied to that post ****head.

DanL
September 23rd 03, 08:45 PM
"Lyle McDonald" > wrote in message
...
>
> Lyle
> got the monkey arms himself

So then whats your excuse for having a ****ty deadlift?

Watson Davis
September 23rd 03, 08:53 PM
Rambo Four Sythia > wrote in
:

> "DanL" > writes:
>
> ...
>> I hold the bar the same way every time. I pull conventional style and
>> have my grip as close to my body as possible. The closer your grip,
>> the farther down your arms hang. I haven't ever had any grip problems
>> but I tend to do no more than 3 to 5 reps in a set for deads, so grip
>> isn't as much a factor. I use and alternating grip. You don't want to
>> be "choking" the bar, gripping it so hard that your forearms get
>> sore. Your fingers are almost like hooks holding it, and then you
>> wrap your thumb over your 1st 2 or maybe 3 fingers. Lots of chalk
>> helps too.
>
> Do any powerlifters use the hook grip on deads?

Bryce Lane used the hook grip. I think he was pulling about 500-550.

You don't see very many, though.

Watson (the pencil neck) Davis

Lyle McDonald
September 23rd 03, 08:53 PM
DanL wrote:
>
> "Lyle McDonald" > wrote in message
> ...
> > DanL wrote:
> >
> > And where were your competition lifts, again, Dano?
> > Wanna see how they stack up against my 'pathetic' raw lifts.
> >
> I've already replied to that post ****head.

I never saw it, dickweed, so you should have no problem posting them again.

Lyle
waiting to be impressed

Lyle McDonald
September 23rd 03, 08:53 PM
DanL wrote:
>
> "Lyle McDonald" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > Lyle
> > got the monkey arms himself
>
> So then whats your excuse for having a ****ty deadlift?

Since when is a 2XBW DL ****ty?

Lyle

DanL
September 23rd 03, 09:07 PM
"Lyle McDonald" > wrote in message
> I never saw it, dickweed, so you should have no problem posting them
again.
>
> Lyle
> waiting to be impressed

No, you can scroll down to your original request to see my numbers. The post
is still there. And like I said in that thread, I don't have to have great
numbers to know that your's are ****ty. I know 15 year old kids your size
and women who are stronger.

DanL
September 23rd 03, 09:12 PM
"Lyle McDonald" > wrote in message >
> Since when is a 2XBW DL ****ty?
>
> Lyle

When it's yours.

Lyle McDonald
September 23rd 03, 09:20 PM
Lyle McDonald wrote:
>
> DanL wrote:
> >
> > "Lyle McDonald" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > Lyle
> > > got the monkey arms himself
> >
> > So then whats your excuse for having a ****ty deadlift?
>
> Since when is a 2XBW DL ****ty?
\
Check that: 2.5X BW.

Lyle

DanL
September 23rd 03, 09:33 PM
"Lyle McDonald" > wrote in message
...


> \
> Check that: 2.5X BW.
>
> Lyle

What kind of math is that. You use the weight you were at the comp, not what
you weigh now and what your lift was then. Before you said you were 165 and
pulled 365. For 2.5x you'd have to weigh about 145 which would have put you
in the 148lb class. You already said you lifted in the 165s. What is it.

Jason Burnell
September 24th 03, 02:57 AM
DanL wrote:

> "Lyle McDonald" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Lyle
>>got the monkey arms himself
>
>
> So then whats your excuse for having a ****ty deadlift?
>
>
Earthworm Spine

--
Jason Burnell

http://www.deepsquatter.com

Jason Burnell
September 24th 03, 03:11 AM
Lyle McDonald wrote:

> DanL wrote:
>
>>"Lyle McDonald" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>>Lyle
>>>got the monkey arms himself
>>
>>So then whats your excuse for having a ****ty deadlift?
>
>
> Since when is a 2XBW DL ****ty?
>
> Lyle

In terms of the "average person" on the street it's a great lift and
something most people will never do (or try to)

In terms of competitive lifting... and being male.. it's not all that
great. 2.5-3X bodyweight are good lifts. 3.5 and you are a stud. Get
close to 4 or better and you are probably breaking or holding a record.

Examples

in the 220s' (open)
a 400-450 lb pull is nothing. Almost everyone can do it.
you will see a lot of 500-550 pulls
600-650 is pretty good
700 will be a big pull at most meets
800 is almost the USAPL American record.

In the 165s its the same:
350 will be common
500 is pretty darn good
575 is really good
if you pull 600 or more you are a stud.

BTW, I have a friend that pulled 380 lbs at 114 lbs bodyweight drug
free. That's an elite lift. SHE was one of the best in the world.
--
Jason Burnell

http://www.deepsquatter.com

Art S
September 24th 03, 04:38 AM
"DanL" > wrote in message ...
>
> "Lyle McDonald" > wrote in message
> > I never saw it, dickweed, so you should have no problem posting them
> again.
> >
> > Lyle
> > waiting to be impressed
>
> No, you can scroll down to your original request to see my numbers. The post
> is still there.

If you two are sharing the same computer and monitor, might I suggest either
separating or talking over your differences? Communicating with each other
by posting can't be indicative of a healthy relationship.

Art

Keith Hobman
September 24th 03, 03:17 PM
In article >, Jason
Burnell > wrote:

> Lyle McDonald wrote:
>
> > DanL wrote:
> >
> >>"Lyle McDonald" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>
> >>>Lyle
> >>>got the monkey arms himself
> >>
> >>So then whats your excuse for having a ****ty deadlift?
> >
> >
> > Since when is a 2XBW DL ****ty?
> >
> > Lyle
>
> In terms of the "average person" on the street it's a great lift and
> something most people will never do (or try to)
>
> In terms of competitive lifting... and being male.. it's not all that
> great. 2.5-3X bodyweight are good lifts. 3.5 and you are a stud. Get
> close to 4 or better and you are probably breaking or holding a record.
>
> Examples
>
> in the 220s' (open)
> a 400-450 lb pull is nothing. Almost everyone can do it.
> you will see a lot of 500-550 pulls
> 600-650 is pretty good
> 700 will be a big pull at most meets
> 800 is almost the USAPL American record.
>
> In the 165s its the same:
> 350 will be common
> 500 is pretty darn good
> 575 is really good
> if you pull 600 or more you are a stud.
>
> BTW, I have a friend

*** I was with ya right up to this statement, which of course cast doubts
over the integrity of the entire post.

:^?

--
Keith Hobman

--- email address above is a non-monitored spam sink.

Jason Burnell
September 24th 03, 05:16 PM
Keith Hobman wrote:
> In article >, Jason
> Burnell > wrote:
>
>
>>Lyle McDonald wrote:
>>
>>
>>>DanL wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>"Lyle McDonald" > wrote in message
...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Lyle
>>>>>got the monkey arms himself
>>>>
>>>>So then whats your excuse for having a ****ty deadlift?
>>>
>>>
>>>Since when is a 2XBW DL ****ty?
>>>
>>>Lyle
>>
>>In terms of the "average person" on the street it's a great lift and
>>something most people will never do (or try to)
>>
>>In terms of competitive lifting... and being male.. it's not all that
>>great. 2.5-3X bodyweight are good lifts. 3.5 and you are a stud. Get
>>close to 4 or better and you are probably breaking or holding a record.
>>
>>Examples
>>
>>in the 220s' (open)
>>a 400-450 lb pull is nothing. Almost everyone can do it.
>>you will see a lot of 500-550 pulls
>>600-650 is pretty good
>>700 will be a big pull at most meets
>>800 is almost the USAPL American record.
>>
>>In the 165s its the same:
>>350 will be common
>>500 is pretty darn good
>>575 is really good
>>if you pull 600 or more you are a stud.
>>
>>BTW, I have a friend
>
>
> *** I was with ya right up to this statement, which of course cast doubts
> over the integrity of the entire post.
>
> :^?
>

Ok... I should have said.... I know this person... although this person
would probably deny knowing me.... LOL
--
Jason Burnell

http://www.deepsquatter.com

gps
September 25th 03, 06:48 AM
Hoff wrote:
>
> "Lyle McDonald" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Hoff wrote:
> > >
> > > "Lyle McDonald" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > Hoff wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > "hardworkin" > wrote in message
> > > > > om...
> > > > > > My dl's aren't even close to what many of you would consider heavy
> > > > > > yet. But I'm noticing something. Changing the width of my grip
> > > > > > obviously changes the angle of the bar with respect to my forearms
> > > > > > which varies the percentage of the load my various forearm muscles
> are
> > > > > > holding. Do you heavy dl'ers focus on, or even notice which part
> of
> > > > > > your grip is the most stressed and accordingly try to maximize
> your
> > > > > > efficiency by holding the bar a certain way?
> > > > > > I think this question applies whether you use an overhand,
> > > > > > alternating, or hook grip.
> > > > >
> > > > > Well, I'm FAR from a "heavy dl'er".
> > > > >
> > > > > But, the main thing I try to do is get as narrow a grip as I can,
> that
> > > still
> > > > > allows me to lockout. Closer hands, longer (relative) arms, less
> > > distance
> > > > > to pull.
> > > >
> > > > Except that you have to be careful not to over-narrow your stance
> which
> > > > will more than cancel out the effect. A happy medium, please.
> > >
> > > Yes, well, he didn't ASK about stance, now did he?
> >
> > No, he did not.
> > Dick.
>
> That's Sir Dick to you.

I thought it was Dick Trickle.

> > But it's obviously a consideration. YOu can g a nice narrow grip if you
> > start with your feet touching (I've seen it) but I don't think you'll
> > argue that it's a particularly good way to DL.
>
> Yes, you're right (is that what you wanted to hear?).
>
> Sharon will start dealing with that this week. She's been training sumo,
> but this week will switch over to conv.
>
> She switched AT the meet in April, which worked out OK. But it should work
> out better giving her a few weeks to actually work on her conventional DL.
>
> >
> > > I guess I don't look at deads as "grip" work, tho they obviously are
> (do?).
> > > Even doing this borderline insane Russian routine, I haven't had a
> problem
> > > with my grip failing. Last week was 6 sets of 6. Yeah, the weight was
> only
> > > 325, but I can remember when I could barely hold onto that for a single.
> >
> > All that masturbation is paying off.
> >
>
> Like I told Styles, I'm a little out of practice. And the lighter touch is
> better, in any case.
>
> Hoff

Perhaps a second job moonlighting downtown giving hand jobs?
ps

gps
September 25th 03, 06:51 AM
> Keith Hobman wrote:
>
> > Jason Burnell > wrote:
<snip>
> > BTW, I have a friend
>
> *** I was with ya right up to this statement, which of course cast doubts
> over the integrity of the entire post.
>
> :^?
>
> --
> Keith Hobman


That wasn't very Canadian.
ps

John HUDSON
September 25th 03, 09:15 AM
On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 05:48:12 GMT, gps > wrote:

>Hoff wrote:
>>
>> "Lyle McDonald" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > Hoff wrote:
>> > >
>> > > "Lyle McDonald" > wrote in message
>> > > ...
>> > > > Hoff wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > "hardworkin" > wrote in message
>> > > > > om...
>> > > > > > My dl's aren't even close to what many of you would consider heavy
>> > > > > > yet. But I'm noticing something. Changing the width of my grip
>> > > > > > obviously changes the angle of the bar with respect to my forearms
>> > > > > > which varies the percentage of the load my various forearm muscles
>> are
>> > > > > > holding. Do you heavy dl'ers focus on, or even notice which part
>> of
>> > > > > > your grip is the most stressed and accordingly try to maximize
>> your
>> > > > > > efficiency by holding the bar a certain way?
>> > > > > > I think this question applies whether you use an overhand,
>> > > > > > alternating, or hook grip.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Well, I'm FAR from a "heavy dl'er".
>> > > > >
>> > > > > But, the main thing I try to do is get as narrow a grip as I can,
>> that
>> > > still
>> > > > > allows me to lockout. Closer hands, longer (relative) arms, less
>> > > distance
>> > > > > to pull.
>> > > >
>> > > > Except that you have to be careful not to over-narrow your stance
>> which
>> > > > will more than cancel out the effect. A happy medium, please.
>> > >
>> > > Yes, well, he didn't ASK about stance, now did he?
>> >
>> > No, he did not.
>> > Dick.
>>
>> That's Sir Dick to you.
>
>I thought it was Dick Trickle.
>
>> > But it's obviously a consideration. YOu can g a nice narrow grip if you
>> > start with your feet touching (I've seen it) but I don't think you'll
>> > argue that it's a particularly good way to DL.
>>
>> Yes, you're right (is that what you wanted to hear?).
>>
>> Sharon will start dealing with that this week. She's been training sumo,
>> but this week will switch over to conv.
>>
>> She switched AT the meet in April, which worked out OK. But it should work
>> out better giving her a few weeks to actually work on her conventional DL.
>>
>> >
>> > > I guess I don't look at deads as "grip" work, tho they obviously are
>> (do?).
>> > > Even doing this borderline insane Russian routine, I haven't had a
>> problem
>> > > with my grip failing. Last week was 6 sets of 6. Yeah, the weight was
>> only
>> > > 325, but I can remember when I could barely hold onto that for a single.
>> >
>> > All that masturbation is paying off.
>> >
>>
>> Like I told Styles, I'm a little out of practice. And the lighter touch is
>> better, in any case.
>>
>> Hoff
>
>Perhaps a second job moonlighting downtown giving hand jobs?

Sounds like a 'gripping' occupation which will require you to get an
early 'grasp' of techniques and some 'hands-on' experience. You'll
also need to make sure you don't get 'awristed'!

If you don't 'hold on' to this opportunity, you may have to think
about cross-training, which could be a bit of a 'blow'!! ;o)

>ps

Seth Breidbart
October 10th 03, 12:59 AM
In article >,
David > wrote:
>it's better on top

But since you're from .au, you're still posting on the wrong end.

Seth
--
Don't ever masturbate after getting capsaicin on your hands. -- Patrick Arnold

Seth Breidbart
October 10th 03, 01:01 AM
In article >,
Steve Freides > wrote:

>I have hurt my elbow by not keeping it locked out while DL'ing. Strange
>as it might seem, you've got to flex your triceps while DL'ing to
>protect your elbows. I didn't hurt the bones of the joint, just my
>biceps tendon (at least that's what I think it is/was).

Hmmmmm... Seems we've heard that one before.

And he did it better, too.

Seth
--
There's no amount of rudeness in the world that can not be cured by the
judicious application of extreme violence. -- Roland Lee