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July 16th 05, 06:15 PM
When you hang vertically and lift the knees to the chest, is that for
all abs or just upper or just lower abs?

JMW
July 16th 05, 06:40 PM
wrote:

>When you hang vertically and lift the knees to the chest, is that for
>all abs or just upper or just lower abs?

It's for you hip flexors. The inclusion of your rectus abdominus
(i.e., "abs," one length of muscle, top to bottom), is merely
incidental in stabilizing your spine. Sorry for the bad news.

--

JMW
http://www.rustyiron.net

joanne
July 16th 05, 09:26 PM
JMW wrote:
> wrote:
>
> >When you hang vertically and lift the knees to the chest, is that for
> >all abs or just upper or just lower abs?
>
> It's for you hip flexors. The inclusion of your rectus abdominus
> (i.e., "abs," one length of muscle, top to bottom), is merely
> incidental in stabilizing your spine. Sorry for the bad news.


If this is the exercise the OP asked about, then according to the ExRx
site, its main target IS the abs (rectus abdominus), with the hip
flexors etc as 'synergists', so quite the other way around:
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/RectusAbdominis/WtHangingLegHipRaise.html


joanne

frank-in-toronto
July 16th 05, 09:52 PM
On 16 Jul 2005 13:26:38 -0700, "joanne" > wrote:

>
>
>JMW wrote:
>> wrote:
>>
>> >When you hang vertically and lift the knees to the chest, is that for
>> >all abs or just upper or just lower abs?
>>
>> It's for you hip flexors. The inclusion of your rectus abdominus
>> (i.e., "abs," one length of muscle, top to bottom), is merely
>> incidental in stabilizing your spine. Sorry for the bad news.
>
>
>If this is the exercise the OP asked about, then according to the ExRx
>site, its main target IS the abs (rectus abdominus), with the hip
>flexors etc as 'synergists', so quite the other way around:
>http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/RectusAbdominis/WtHangingLegHipRaise.html
the final part once the hips start to rotate forward and the lower
butt begins to lift is done by the abs. the early part of the
motion is all hip flexor (nothing wrong with that).
,,,thehick

JMW
July 16th 05, 11:29 PM
"joanne" > wrote:
>
>JMW wrote:
>> wrote:
>>
>> >When you hang vertically and lift the knees to the chest, is that for
>> >all abs or just upper or just lower abs?
>>
>> It's for you hip flexors. The inclusion of your rectus abdominus
>> (i.e., "abs," one length of muscle, top to bottom), is merely
>> incidental in stabilizing your spine. Sorry for the bad news.
>
>
>If this is the exercise the OP asked about, then according to the ExRx
>site, its main target IS the abs (rectus abdominus), with the hip
>flexors etc as 'synergists', so quite the other way around:
>http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/RectusAbdominis/WtHangingLegHipRaise.html

They're not always very accurate.

Actually, the way they show knee raises being done *might* provide
more benefit to the abdominals if you really concentrate shoving your
knees into your chest, but even then they were smart enough to add the
disclaimer:

"Rectus Abdominis and Obliques only dynamically contract only if
actual waist flexion occurs. With no waist flexion, Rectus Abdominis
and External Oblique will only isometrically contract to stabilize the
pelvis and waist during hip flexion."

The bottom line is this:

[1] The "magic exercises" to preferentially work the coveted "lower
abs" are few and very limited in that effect.

[2] The key to highly visible lower abs is extremely low body fat.

Steve Freides
July 17th 05, 01:25 AM
> wrote in message
oups.com...
> When you hang vertically and lift the knees to the chest, is that for
> all abs or just upper or just lower abs?

If you want to make this a more effective exercise, I'd make it harder -
otherwise it's too easy to leave your abs out of the picture altogether.
Try holding a dumbbell between your feet, or try using straight legs
instead of bent and bring your feet all the way to the bar.

For a great collection of ab exercises, see "Bullet-Proof Abs" by Pavel,
http://www.kbnj.com/bpa.htm

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

Charles
July 17th 05, 08:43 AM
On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 20:25:39 -0400, "Steve Freides"
> wrote:

> wrote in message
oups.com...
>> When you hang vertically and lift the knees to the chest, is that for
>> all abs or just upper or just lower abs?
>
>If you want to make this a more effective exercise, I'd make it harder -
>otherwise it's too easy to leave your abs out of the picture altogether.
>Try holding a dumbbell between your feet, or try using straight legs
>instead of bent and bring your feet all the way to the bar.

Straight leg lifting is not good for backs Steve!

Have a great Sunday - you know I will!! ;o)

July 17th 05, 05:24 PM
On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 08:43:50 +0100, Charles > wrote:

>On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 20:25:39 -0400, "Steve Freides"
> wrote:
>
> wrote in message
oups.com...
>>> When you hang vertically and lift the knees to the chest, is that for
>>> all abs or just upper or just lower abs?
>>
>>If you want to make this a more effective exercise, I'd make it harder -
>>otherwise it's too easy to leave your abs out of the picture altogether.
>>Try holding a dumbbell between your feet, or try using straight legs
>>instead of bent and bring your feet all the way to the bar.
>
>Straight leg lifting is not good for backs Steve!
>
>Have a great Sunday - you know I will!! ;o)

Dr. Michael Yessis, Kinesiology of Exercise

"As many people know, doing straight-leg raises while you are lying on
your back may be injurious to the spine if the pelvic girdle is not
held stable by the abdominals. In the support straight-leg raises,
however, the abdominals automatically undergo contraction at the very
beginning of the movement. Because of this, the hanging leg raise is a
safe exercise for development of the hip flexors together with the
abdominal muscles."

My question is whether this applies exclusively to _support_
straight-leg raises. (I seriously doubt it.) I understand a supported
leg raise to be one where the forearms are supported on bars.

In _The New Power Program_, the first 5 exercises listed in Dr.
Michael Colgan's selections for the 10 best abdominal exercises
involve hanging ones. These hanging exercises are listed in order
from easy to hard. Only the first one, the hanging knee kick,
involves bent legs.

Dr. Colgan demonstrates these exercises using a pronated grip with one
hand and a neutral grip (a peg is attrached perpendicular to the bar)
with the other.

For more information about Dr. Colgan, see
http://www.colganinstitute.com/colganinsitute/drcolgan.htm

Steve Freides
July 17th 05, 06:01 PM
"Charles" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 20:25:39 -0400, "Steve Freides"
> > wrote:
>
> wrote in message
oups.com...
>>> When you hang vertically and lift the knees to the chest, is that
>>> for
>>> all abs or just upper or just lower abs?
>>
>>If you want to make this a more effective exercise, I'd make it
>>harder -
>>otherwise it's too easy to leave your abs out of the picture
>>altogether.
>>Try holding a dumbbell between your feet, or try using straight legs
>>instead of bent and bring your feet all the way to the bar.
>
> Straight leg lifting is not good for backs Steve!

Hasn't bothered my back, Charles. I have better than average hamstring
flexibility, which may help, but by the same token, my hamstring
flexibility is nothing out of the ordinary for a lifter, I don't think.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com


> Have a great Sunday - you know I will!! ;o)
>
>

Jay
July 18th 05, 04:02 PM
"Charles" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 20:25:39 -0400, "Steve Freides"
> > wrote:
>
> wrote in message
oups.com...
>>> When you hang vertically and lift the knees to the chest, is that for
>>> all abs or just upper or just lower abs?
>>
>>If you want to make this a more effective exercise, I'd make it harder -
>>otherwise it's too easy to leave your abs out of the picture altogether.
>>Try holding a dumbbell between your feet, or try using straight legs
>>instead of bent and bring your feet all the way to the bar.
>
> Straight leg lifting is not good for backs Steve!
>

references?