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John Tr
October 13th 03, 11:56 PM
i do not know much about lifting and what weights to lift. i want to
start a program so that i can build some muscle. i am 6'3" and
195lbs. i want to lift every day or every other day. can someone
help??

David Cohen
October 14th 03, 12:42 AM
"John Tr" > wrote
> i do not know much about lifting and what weights to lift. i want
to
> start a program so that i can build some muscle. i am 6'3" and
> 195lbs. i want to lift every day or every other day. can someone
> help??

http://www.trygve.com/mfw.html
http://www.stumptuous.com/weights.html
http://www.exrx.net/
http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/

David

Oldman
October 14th 03, 01:30 AM
"John Tr" > wrote in message
om...
> i do not know much about lifting and what weights to lift. i want to
> start a program so that i can build some muscle. i am 6'3" and
> 195lbs. i want to lift every day or every other day. can someone
> help??



Mitlitary Press
Curl
Press Behind neck
Reverse curl
Bench Press
Leg Raises
Stiff Legged Deadlift with Shrug
Situp
Power Clean
Rowing Motion
Bent Armed Pullover
Situps
Squats

The above is a good starter routine. Do everything 1 set of 10 to start.
As you get used to it add sets to the Bench Press,Deadlift Power Clean,Bent
Armed Pullover and Squats until you are doing 3 sets in each. Then come
back and someone here will give you good advice on how to increase the level
of your workout.
Do this routine 3 times a week or every other day. This is a good solid
beginners routine and will get you started.. Also after the squats do some
very light straight armed pullovers after each set to help catch your
breath.. Good luck.

DRS
October 14th 03, 05:17 PM
Oldman > wrote in message
> "John Tr" > wrote in message
> om...
>> i do not know much about lifting and what weights to lift. i want to
>> start a program so that i can build some muscle. i am 6'3" and
>> 195lbs. i want to lift every day or every other day. can someone
>> help??
>
> Mitlitary Press
> Curl
> Press Behind neck
> Reverse curl
> Bench Press
> Leg Raises
> Stiff Legged Deadlift with Shrug
> Situp
> Power Clean
> Rowing Motion
> Bent Armed Pullover
> Situps
> Squats
>
> The above is a good starter routine.

It's a recipe for an over-training disaster.

> Do everything 1 set of 10 to
> start. As you get used to it add sets to the Bench Press,Deadlift
> Power Clean,Bent Armed Pullover and Squats until you are doing 3 sets
> in each. Then come back and someone here will give you good advice
> on how to increase the level of your workout.
> Do this routine 3 times a week or every other day. This is a
> good solid beginners routine and will get you started.. Also after
> the squats do some very light straight armed pullovers after each set
> to help catch your breath.. Good luck.

Heh. Good luck indeed. That'd kill an ox.

--

A: Top-posters.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?

BriTTney
October 14th 03, 09:03 PM
> Press Behind neck

I would certainly not advice this to a beginner.

BriTT

Oldman
October 14th 03, 09:49 PM
"DRS" > wrote in message
...
> Oldman > wrote in message
> > "John Tr" > wrote in message
> > om...
> >> i do not know much about lifting and what weights to lift. i want to
> >> start a program so that i can build some muscle. i am 6'3" and
> >> 195lbs. i want to lift every day or every other day. can someone
> >> help??
> >
> > Mitlitary Press
> > Curl
> > Press Behind neck
> > Reverse curl
> > Bench Press
> > Leg Raises
> > Stiff Legged Deadlift with Shrug
> > Situp
> > Power Clean
> > Rowing Motion
> > Bent Armed Pullover
> > Situps
> > Squats
> >
> > The above is a good starter routine.
>
> It's a recipe for an over-training disaster.
>
> > Do everything 1 set of 10 to
> > start. As you get used to it add sets to the Bench Press,Deadlift
> > Power Clean,Bent Armed Pullover and Squats until you are doing 3 sets
> > in each. Then come back and someone here will give you good advice
> > on how to increase the level of your workout.
> > Do this routine 3 times a week or every other day. This is a
> > good solid beginners routine and will get you started.. Also after
> > the squats do some very light straight armed pullovers after each set
> > to help catch your breath.. Good luck.
>
> Heh. Good luck indeed. That'd kill an ox.
>
> --
>
> A: Top-posters.
> Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?
My 34 year old girlfriend who has never trained before is doing a
similar routine. She said tell you she is overweight to boot. She thinks
your comment about overtraining is hilarious. If that is really hard for
you to do maybe you need to do some conditioning work and get in shape. You
will notice I told him to start with one set of each exercise and add sets
as he gets used to it. Also not to add weight unless he eats enough to gain
bodyweight. I repeat he will not make fast gains if he does an exercise and
rest 5-10 minutes between sets. He may gain but I meant fast progress. It
is up to him to try. I know this works for newbies and does not overtrain
if they do not go to failure with too heavy weights too soon...

DRS
October 15th 03, 03:49 PM
Oldman > wrote in message
> "DRS" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Oldman > wrote in message

[...]

>>> Mitlitary Press
>>> Curl
>>> Press Behind neck
>>> Reverse curl
>>> Bench Press
>>> Leg Raises
>>> Stiff Legged Deadlift with Shrug
>>> Situp
>>> Power Clean
>>> Rowing Motion
>>> Bent Armed Pullover
>>> Situps
>>> Squats
>>>
>>> The above is a good starter routine.
>>
>> It's a recipe for an over-training disaster.
>>
>>> Do everything 1 set of 10 to
>>> start. As you get used to it add sets to the Bench Press,Deadlift
>>> Power Clean,Bent Armed Pullover and Squats until you are doing 3
>>> sets in each. Then come back and someone here will give you good
>>> advice on how to increase the level of your workout.
>>> Do this routine 3 times a week or every other day. This is a
>>> good solid beginners routine and will get you started.. Also after
>>> the squats do some very light straight armed pullovers after each
>>> set to help catch your breath.. Good luck.
>>
>> Heh. Good luck indeed. That'd kill an ox.

[...]

> My 34 year old girlfriend who has never trained before is doing a
> similar routine. She said tell you she is overweight to boot. She

How long has she been training?

> thinks your comment about overtraining is hilarious. If that is
> really hard for you to do maybe you need to do some conditioning work
> and get in shape.

I do a full body workout three times per week. I do half the number of
exercises you recommend times 2 sets without excessive rest time and I still
take around 75 minutes.

> You will notice I told him to start with one set
> of each exercise and add sets as he gets used to it.

You also told him to work up to 3 sets. Apart from the fact that that
routine times three sets would take about three hours what is it with people
and three sets? Two is plenty.

[...]

> him to try. I know this works for newbies and does not overtrain if
> they do not go to failure with too heavy weights too soon...

How many newbies have you trained this way and how many are still training
six months later?

--

"Posting at the top because that's where the cursor happened to be is like
****ting in your pants because that's where your asshole happened to be."
Andreas Prilop

Theresa
October 15th 03, 05:25 PM
>>>> Military Press
>>>> Curl

It's just a guy thing, right? Why not (try to) chin?

>>>> Press Behind neck

Owie.

>>>> Reverse curl

Right, brachioradialis hypertrophy will make you HYUUGE.

>>>> Bench Press

Check.

>>>> Leg Raises
>>>> Stiff Legged Deadlift with Shrug

Any weight I can SLDL with is way too light to shrug.

>>>> Situp
>>>> Power Clean

I hurt my wrist doing these, not enough coaching.

>>>> Row
>>>> Bent Armed Pullover
>>>> Situps
>>>> Squats

LAST?! Damned heretic infidel, BURN.
>>>>
>>>> The above is a good starter routine.

Is not.

>>> It's a recipe for an over-training disaster.

Caveat: beginners get stronger doing the dumbest freaking things, you
should've seen my first routine. Worse than this: machines.

>>> Heh. Good luck indeed. That'd kill an ox.

>> My 34 year old girlfriend who has never trained before is doing a
>> similar routine. She said tell you she is overweight to boot. She
>
> How long has she been training?

Yeah, first two months you get stronger, period.
>
>> thinks your comment about overtraining is hilarious. If that is
>> really hard for you to do maybe you need to do some conditioning work
>> and get in shape.

Yeah, right. Anyone who trained like this, as long as me, my weight and age
and gender, I could zip right through her workout by using her poundages.
If she tried mine, she'd get squashed like a bug.

> I do a full body workout three times per week. I do half the number
> of exercises you recommend times 2 sets without excessive rest time
> and I still take around 75 minutes.
>
>> You will notice I told him to start with one set
>> of each exercise and add sets as he gets used to it.
>
> You also told him to work up to 3 sets. Apart from the fact that that
> routine times three sets would take about three hours what is it with
> people and three sets? Two is plenty.

>> him to try. I know this works for newbies and does not overtrain if
>> they do not go to failure with too heavy weights too soon...

> How many newbies have you trained this way and how many are still
> training six months later?

Seth Breidbart
October 16th 03, 12:31 AM
In article >,
Theresa > wrote:

>>>>> Leg Raises

You neglected to mention they're not such a brilliant idea either.

>>>>> Situp

Wrong.

>>>>> Situps

So do more of them later?

>>>>> The above is a good starter routine.
>Is not.

Is survivable only as a starter routine with tiny weights.

>>>> It's a recipe for an over-training disaster.

That too.

Seth
--
If most people put half the ****ing effort into working that they do
into ****ing and moaning, the world would not be so full of pathetic
underachievers. -- Eric Midkiff

gps
October 16th 03, 05:25 AM
DRS wrote:
>
> Oldman > wrote in message
> > "DRS" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> Oldman > wrote in message
>
> [...]
>
> >>> Mitlitary Press
> >>> Curl
> >>> Press Behind neck
> >>> Reverse curl
> >>> Bench Press
> >>> Leg Raises
> >>> Stiff Legged Deadlift with Shrug
> >>> Situp
> >>> Power Clean
> >>> Rowing Motion
> >>> Bent Armed Pullover
> >>> Situps
> >>> Squats
> >>>
> >>> The above is a good starter routine.
> >>
> >> It's a recipe for an over-training disaster.

You must be a terrible cook. Please explain why such a routine for a
beginner would be an over training disaster.

> >>> Do everything 1 set of 10 to
> >>> start. As you get used to it add sets to the Bench Press,Deadlift
> >>> Power Clean,Bent Armed Pullover and Squats until you are doing 3
> >>> sets in each. Then come back and someone here will give you good
> >>> advice on how to increase the level of your workout.
> >>> Do this routine 3 times a week or every other day. This is a
> >>> good solid beginners routine and will get you started.. Also after
> >>> the squats do some very light straight armed pullovers after each
> >>> set to help catch your breath.. Good luck.
> >>
> >> Heh. Good luck indeed. That'd kill an ox.

You must be a golfer.

<snip>
> I do a full body workout three times per week. I do half the number of
> exercises you recommend times 2 sets without excessive rest time and I still
> take around 75 minutes.

It takes you 75 minutes to do 12 sets? How long are your breaks?

> > You will notice I told him to start with one set
> > of each exercise and add sets as he gets used to it.
>
> You also told him to work up to 3 sets. Apart from the fact that that
> routine times three sets would take about three hours what is it with people
> and three sets? Two is plenty.

Three sets for five of the bigger motions, but no mention of increased
sets for the other eight. You must be one lazy ****** if you think it
would take three hours to complete the workout.

> > him to try. I know this works for newbies and does not overtrain if
> > they do not go to failure with too heavy weights too soon...
>
> How many newbies have you trained this way and how many are still training
> six months later?

And how many newbies have you trained on machines before graduating
them, oh so subtly, to free weights?
ps

DRS
October 16th 03, 02:27 PM
gps > wrote in message

> DRS wrote:
>>
>> Oldman > wrote in message
>>> "DRS" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> Oldman > wrote in message
>>>>
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>>>> Mitlitary Press
>>>>> Curl
>>>>> Press Behind neck
>>>>> Reverse curl
>>>>> Bench Press
>>>>> Leg Raises
>>>>> Stiff Legged Deadlift with Shrug
>>>>> Situp
>>>>> Power Clean
>>>>> Rowing Motion
>>>>> Bent Armed Pullover
>>>>> Situps
>>>>> Squats
>>>>>
>>>>> The above is a good starter routine.
>>>>
>>>> It's a recipe for an over-training disaster.
>
> You must be a terrible cook. Please explain why such a routine for a
> beginner would be an over training disaster.

Get serious. There's thirteen items in that list, which is too many anyway
especially since there's a number of big compounds, and there's considerable
overlap between them.

[...]

>> I do a full body workout three times per week. I do half the number
>> of exercises you recommend times 2 sets without excessive rest time
>> and I still take around 75 minutes.
>
> It takes you 75 minutes to do 12 sets? How long are your breaks?

I try to get both sets per exercise done in about four minutes, with breaks
between them. Over 14 sets that's a bit over an hour plus a bit of a warmup
and stretches thrown in.

[...]

> Three sets for five of the bigger motions, but no mention of increased

Where did he say 3x5?

> sets for the other eight. You must be one lazy ****** if you think it
> would take three hours to complete the workout.

It's 3x10 for the lot. I didn't get out the calculator, I admit. But it's
still way too much.

--

"Posting at the top because that's where the cursor happened to be is like
****ting in your pants because that's where your asshole happened to be."
Andreas Prilop

Hoff
October 16th 03, 02:46 PM
"DRS" > wrote in message
...
> gps > wrote in message
>
> > DRS wrote:
> >>
> >> Oldman > wrote in message
> >>> "DRS" > wrote in message
> >>> ...
> >>>> Oldman > wrote in message
> >>>>
> >>
> >> [...]
> >>
> >>>>> Mitlitary Press
> >>>>> Curl
> >>>>> Press Behind neck
> >>>>> Reverse curl
> >>>>> Bench Press
> >>>>> Leg Raises
> >>>>> Stiff Legged Deadlift with Shrug
> >>>>> Situp
> >>>>> Power Clean
> >>>>> Rowing Motion
> >>>>> Bent Armed Pullover
> >>>>> Situps
> >>>>> Squats
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The above is a good starter routine.
> >>>>
> >>>> It's a recipe for an over-training disaster.
> >
> > You must be a terrible cook. Please explain why such a routine for a
> > beginner would be an over training disaster.
>
> Get serious. There's thirteen items in that list, which is too many
anyway
> especially since there's a number of big compounds, and there's
considerable
> overlap between them.
>
> [...]
>
> >> I do a full body workout three times per week. I do half the number
> >> of exercises you recommend times 2 sets without excessive rest time
> >> and I still take around 75 minutes.
> >
> > It takes you 75 minutes to do 12 sets? How long are your breaks?
>
> I try to get both sets per exercise done in about four minutes, with
breaks
> between them. Over 14 sets that's a bit over an hour plus a bit of a
warmup
> and stretches thrown in.
>
> [...]
>
> > Three sets for five of the bigger motions, but no mention of increased
>
> Where did he say 3x5?
>
> > sets for the other eight. You must be one lazy ****** if you think it
> > would take three hours to complete the workout.
>
> It's 3x10 for the lot. I didn't get out the calculator, I admit. But
it's
> still way too much.
>

No, he said only 3 sets for Bench Press, Deadlift, Power Clean, Bent Armed
Pullover and Squats:

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3f8b43b5_1%40vps-online.com&output=gpla
in

Personally, yeah, I'd ditch the reverse curls and BTN presses (and maybe Leg
Raises, depending on what he means), and replace the Pullovers with Chins.

And yeah, the order seems pretty screwed up.

But it's not all THAT bad.

Hoff
--
Learn it. Know it. Live it.

http://home.comcast.net/~mfw/
(Unofficial FAQ Addendum)

DRS
October 16th 03, 03:24 PM
Hoff > wrote in message
[email protected]
> "DRS" > wrote in message
> ...

[...]

>> It's 3x10 for the lot. I didn't get out the calculator, I admit.
>> But it's still way too much.
>
> No, he said only 3 sets for Bench Press, Deadlift, Power Clean, Bent
> Armed Pullover and Squats:
>
>
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3f8b43b5_1%40vps-online.com&output=gpla
> in

He did, too. My bad. But it was 3x10, not 3x5.

> Personally, yeah, I'd ditch the reverse curls and BTN presses (and
> maybe Leg Raises, depending on what he means), and replace the
> Pullovers with Chins.
>
> And yeah, the order seems pretty screwed up.

The order is so ridiculous I never considered it as being seriously put
forward instead of just being a list of exercises.

> But it's not all THAT bad.

It's still fairly bad. Too much repetition and overlap, too many individual
exercises. You can do a solid full body workout with as few as six or seven
exercises and none of this 3 sets business. That's plenty for most people
and especially beginners.

--

"Posting at the top because that's where the cursor happened to be is like
****ting in your pants because that's where your asshole happened to be."
Andreas Prilop

gps
October 18th 03, 06:03 PM
> DRS wrote:
>
> > gps > wrote in message
<snip>
> > You must be a terrible cook. Please explain why such a routine for a
> > beginner would be an over training disaster.
>
> Get serious. There's thirteen items in that list, which is too many anyway
> especially since there's a number of big compounds, and there's considerable
> overlap between them.

So? Thirteen sets is not going to over train a beginner. A full body
workout three times a week is quite standard advice for a beginner.
Beginners are not working anywhere near their capacity so the likelihood
of over training them is remote.

> [...]
>
> >> I do a full body workout three times per week. I do half the number
> >> of exercises you recommend times 2 sets without excessive rest time
> >> and I still take around 75 minutes.
> >
> > It takes you 75 minutes to do 12 sets? How long are your breaks?
>
> I try to get both sets per exercise done in about four minutes, with breaks
> between them. Over 14 sets that's a bit over an hour plus a bit of a warmup
> and stretches thrown in.

Warm up and stretch are certainly part of the time spent, but they
shouldn't count against your resistance training time, imo, as they
aren't going to negatively impact recovery.

Now I'm not very good with numbers, but four minutes for two sets should
be two minutes per set, if I'm not mistaken. Doesn't that total out to
28 minutes? There are 13 breaks between 14 sets, a longish break for me
would be two minutes, which totals 26 minutes. So 28 plus 26 equals 54
minutes.

Now for the important question. Why the heck does it take you 2 minutes
to complete a set? You're not one of those superslow geeks, are you?

> [...]
>
> > Three sets for five of the bigger motions, but no mention of increased
>
> Where did he say 3x5?

So now I have to read the posts for you? I thought google was your
friend? He said, "Do everything 1 set of 10 to start. As you get used
to it add sets to the Bench Press, Deadlift Power Clean, Bent Armed
Pullover and Squats until you are doing 3 sets in each."

IOW, he said 1 set of each exercise and work up to three sets of the
above named five exercises, not 3x5.

> > sets for the other eight. You must be one lazy ****** if you think it
> > would take three hours to complete the workout.
>
> It's 3x10 for the lot. I didn't get out the calculator, I admit. But it's
> still way too much.

No, it's not 3x10, it's 1x10 and working up to 3x10 for five of the
bigger compound exercises. Actually, looking back at it, he does say
"Situp" and "Situps" so it's probably only 12 exercises. Even after
working up to 3x10, that's only 22 sets. For a beginner I still say
it's highly unlikely they would over train on something like that.

Is it the most effective workout? Could you put together a better set
of exercises with less over lap, as you put it? Could you quibble with
having a beginner trying to do power cleans while trying to learn
everything else?

Yes to all of those. But is it a "a recipe for an over-training
disaster?" No.
ps

gps
October 18th 03, 06:05 PM
Hoff wrote:

> And yeah, the order seems pretty screwed up.

If the exercises were to be performed in that order, you would have to
fix it, but I think he just typed them up. I didn't see it said
anywhere to do them in that order although generally that is how someone
would type it; however, I give some allowance since Oldman seems to be
something of a newbie to usenet.
ps

gps
October 18th 03, 06:07 PM
> DRS wrote:
>
> > Hoff > wrote in message
<snip>
> > And yeah, the order seems pretty screwed up.
>
> The order is so ridiculous I never considered it as being seriously put
> forward instead of just being a list of exercises.

This was my take, too.

> > But it's not all THAT bad.
>
> It's still fairly bad. Too much repetition and overlap, too many individual
> exercises. You can do a solid full body workout with as few as six or seven
> exercises and none of this 3 sets business. That's plenty for most people
> and especially beginners.

Where do you come up with the idea that 3 sets is too many? Do you
think beginners are somehow more likely to over train than an
experienced lifter? Because if you do, you have things seriously
assbackwards.
ps