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View Full Version : Part 3 Thanks Lyle!


David Cohen
September 12th 05, 10:55 PM
<copied from his forum www.bodyrecomposition.com without permission, but I
wrote it, so, screw 'em!>

To recap, Part 1 recounted my one month drop from 250s/30% body fat to the
220s/20% BF. Part 2 described the extraordinary improvement in vital signs
and blood lipid values.

It's now been two months. I'm down to about 210 pounds and 17% body fat. The
rate of weight loss has slowed, as expected, since my maintenance caloric
requirement is much less at over 40 pounds lighter. To keep the same weight
loss rate, I'd have to eat less or exercise more. Eating less would affect
the protein sparing aspect of the Lyle McDonald Modified Protein Sparing
Modified Fast (LMMPSMF). I don't have the time or desire to increase
exercise right now.

As a side note, I HIGHLY recommend mountain hiking on a diet. Las Vegas is
at about 2000 feet elevation. The trails in the nearby mountains range from
9000-12000 feet. This high altitude hiking burns glycogen after a carb load
FAST, and the improvement in cardiovascular conditioning has been
remarkable. Peaks or destinations that used to take a full day slog, often
failing to get there, now take 45 minutes or so. Just amazing :)

As I understand it, the LMMPSMF has two goals: 1) lose a lot of fat fast
while 2) maintaining muscle mass. My extremely accurate digital scale, and
my fairly accurate calipers (I've been doing caliper measurements for many
years, and my inexpensive Slim Guides have a reputation for accuracy),
indicate that, so far, through my large loss of weight over two months, my
lean body mass (LBM) has remained at about 175 pounds...no loss of muscle
mass. So, the diet has met both goals.

A word about 5 hour carb loads. I keep very close track of weight and body
fat, and plot them on a graph. I have done carb loads only when the rate of
weight loss begins to plateau. The first month I didn't do any. I've done
three of them during the second month.

The first was ineffective. Looking back, it's obvious that I was
psychologically inhibited from eating enough. Didn't want to screw up the
diet, even though I knew I wasn't going to. I gained only one pound the
morning after the carb load. I'm 6'1" and lean at 200 pounds, so, I have a
fairly above average amount of muscle mass, with corresponding glycogen
storage capacity, so one pound gain was clearly not a full glycogen reload.
And, as expected, my rate of weight loss did not improve.

The second carb load included 15 Promax bars, a pound of cheese crackers, a
half pound of cheese-covered popcorn, and 2 quarts of Gatorade. I gained 4
pounds the next morning, burnt it off in a day, and my rate of weight loss
improved.

This past weekend's 5 hour carb load included a large box of Captain Crunch,
2 large cans of fruit cocktail, 8 corn dogs, 2 pounds of cheese crackers, 2
quarts of Gatorade, and whatever other food failed to find a safe hiding
spot. I gained 11 pounds by the next morning, but was able to burn it off in
2 days, so, it was virtually all gylcogen and water. Now THAT is an
effective carb up! And my rate of weight loss has improved, again. So, my
advice for carb loads: EAT A LOT OF CARBS!! LOTS!!!

Finally, though I, fairly, I believe, refer to it as the Lyle McDonald
Modified PSMF, I include thanks to those who contributed to the concepts
involved, in particular, Elzi Volk.

David

Ryan Case
September 12th 05, 11:17 PM
<snip hard to believe results>

David,

First off let me say WOW!.

Secondly let me appologize for replying to you out of group if you don't
care for that kind of thing.

I am about the same as you, build wise. I am between 6'2" and 6'3"
depending on what time of the day I measure. Right now I sit at 290lbs
and 30% bodyfat. So that gives me a LBM of about 200lbs. I would really
love to get back down to where I was years ago before an injury gave me
excuse to turn myself into a sloth. It sounds like Lyle's latest
endeavor may be the way.

Can you give a guy a link to where to pick it up? It is an e-book for
about $20, no? Is it listed at the body recomp forums somewhere?

TIA,

Ryan

David Cohen
September 12th 05, 11:31 PM
"Ryan Case" > wrote
> <snip hard to believe results>
>
> David,

Ryan,

> First off let me say WOW!.

If you were standing on your head, that would be MOM! Which would be very
inappropriate.

> Secondly let me appologize for replying to you out of group if you don't
> care for that kind of thing.

I think we're all in MFW at the moment. Are you having an out-of-body
experience?

> I am about the same as you, build wise. I am between 6'2" and 6'3"
> depending on what time of the day I measure. Right now I sit at 290lbs and
> 30% bodyfat. So that gives me a LBM of about 200lbs. I would really love
> to get back down to where I was years ago before an injury gave me excuse
> to turn myself into a sloth. It sounds like Lyle's latest endeavor may be
> the way.

If you like eating lean protein and fibrous veges, for a few months, it sure
can be.

> Can you give a guy a link to where to pick it up? It is an e-book for
> about $20, no? Is it listed at the body recomp forums somewhere?

You can learn a lot of the basics on the bodyrecomp forum, but, to do it
right, the book is very useful. It's available at amazon.com, search under
Lyle McDonald, the actual title is "The Rapid Fat Loss Handbook".

David

Ryan Case
September 12th 05, 11:40 PM
David Cohen wrote:

> "Ryan Case" > wrote
>
>><snip hard to believe results>
>>
>>David,
>
>
> Ryan,
>
>
>>First off let me say WOW!.
>
>
> If you were standing on your head, that would be MOM! Which would be very
> inappropriate.


In a bit of a mood today, are ya?

>
>
>>Secondly let me appologize for replying to you out of group if you don't
>>care for that kind of thing.
>
> I think we're all in MFW at the moment. Are you having an out-of-body
> experience?


Nope, just a reply when reply to author was meant moment. If I wasn't so
damn thick skinned I would be red.

Haven't had an out of body in ten years, but I have been daydreaming
about them lately.


>
>
>>I am about the same as you, build wise. I am between 6'2" and 6'3"
>>depending on what time of the day I measure. Right now I sit at 290lbs and
>>30% bodyfat. So that gives me a LBM of about 200lbs. I would really love
>>to get back down to where I was years ago before an injury gave me excuse
>>to turn myself into a sloth. It sounds like Lyle's latest endeavor may be
>>the way.
>
>
> If you like eating lean protein and fibrous veges, for a few months, it sure
> can be.
>
>
>>Can you give a guy a link to where to pick it up? It is an e-book for
>>about $20, no? Is it listed at the body recomp forums somewhere?
>
>
> You can learn a lot of the basics on the bodyrecomp forum, but, to do it
> right, the book is very useful. It's available at amazon.com, search under
> Lyle McDonald, the actual title is "The Rapid Fat Loss Handbook".

Is it available e-book? I am an impatient bugger and hate buying
something and then waiting for it to be shipped.

>
> David
>
>

David Cohen
September 12th 05, 11:51 PM
"Ryan Case" > wrote
> David Cohen wrote:
>> "Ryan Case" > wrote
>>
>>><snip hard to believe results>
>>>
>>>David,
>>
>> Ryan,
>>
>>>First off let me say WOW!.
>>
>> If you were standing on your head, that would be MOM! Which would be very
>> inappropriate.
>
> In a bit of a mood today, are ya?

If I were standing backwards, I'd be in a doom :(

Upside down, I'd have wood. I'm going with that one :)

>>>Secondly let me appologize for replying to you out of group if you don't
>>>care for that kind of thing.
>>
>> I think we're all in MFW at the moment. Are you having an out-of-body
>> experience?
>
> Nope, just a reply when reply to author was meant moment. If I wasn't so
> damn thick skinned I would be red.
>
> Haven't had an out of body in ten years, but I have been daydreaming about
> them lately.

Ah, just checked email. Now I understand.
>
>>>I am about the same as you, build wise. I am between 6'2" and 6'3"
>>>depending on what time of the day I measure. Right now I sit at 290lbs
>>>and 30% bodyfat. So that gives me a LBM of about 200lbs. I would really
>>>love to get back down to where I was years ago before an injury gave me
>>>excuse to turn myself into a sloth. It sounds like Lyle's latest endeavor
>>>may be the way.
>> If you like eating lean protein and fibrous veges, for a few months, it
>> sure can be.
>>
>>>Can you give a guy a link to where to pick it up? It is an e-book for
>>>about $20, no? Is it listed at the body recomp forums somewhere?
>> You can learn a lot of the basics on the bodyrecomp forum, but, to do it
>> right, the book is very useful. It's available at amazon.com, search
>> under Lyle McDonald, the actual title is "The Rapid Fat Loss Handbook".
>
> Is it available e-book? I am an impatient bugger and hate buying something
> and then waiting for it to be shipped.

I don't know if it's available as an e-book. You can find that out on the
bodyrecomp forum. Amazon can get it to you in a few days. But, it's a REAL
good diet for the impatient, as you see results REAL damn fast. 'Cause it's
a modified fast. So it's fast. Modifiably so.

You'll like it. Report back your results.

David

AT
September 13th 05, 01:47 AM
"Ryan Case" > wrote in message
...
> David Cohen wrote:
>

>>
>> You can learn a lot of the basics on the bodyrecomp forum, but, to do it
>> right, the book is very useful. It's available at amazon.com, search
>> under Lyle McDonald, the actual title is "The Rapid Fat Loss Handbook".
>
> Is it available e-book? I am an impatient bugger and hate buying something
> and then waiting for it to be shipped.
>
It's available as a pdf here:
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/products.php

Dally
September 13th 05, 01:53 AM
David Cohen wrote:

> Finally, though I, fairly, I believe, refer to it as the Lyle McDonald
> Modified PSMF, I include thanks to those who contributed to the concepts
> involved, in particular, Elzi Volk.

Nice job, David.

I just hate the fact that the smug ******* is right so often.

About diet, anyway. He called me a stupid whore today. I am *not* a whore!

I laughed at your carb ups. That's all you could think of? No lush
delicious chocolate cake? No ice cream sundaes? No big pile of
steaming mashed potatoes? I *dream* of finding some excuse to do a
carb-up. It's almost enough to make me consider doing his diet again.


Dally

David Cohen
September 13th 05, 02:42 AM
"Dally" > wrote
> David Cohen wrote:
>
>> Finally, though I, fairly, I believe, refer to it as the Lyle McDonald
>> Modified PSMF, I include thanks to those who contributed to the concepts
>> involved, in particular, Elzi Volk.
>
> Nice job, David.

Thank you.

> I just hate the fact that the smug ******* is right so often.
>
> About diet, anyway. He called me a stupid whore today. I am *not* a
> whore!
>
> I laughed at your carb ups. That's all you could think of? No lush
> delicious chocolate cake? No ice cream sundaes? No big pile of steaming
> mashed potatoes? I *dream* of finding some excuse to do a carb-up. It's
> almost enough to make me consider doing his diet again.

I really like Promax bars and cheese crackers. Ice cream has too much fat.
Mashed potatoes are a good idea...next time. Though a stick of butter on top
is out of the question :(

As I type this, I'm eating a big Egg Beaters omelette with fat-free cheddar
cheese, can of tuna, sliced jalepenos, and Tabasco sauce...YUM!

David

JMW
September 13th 05, 02:58 AM
"David Cohen" > wrote:
>
>A word about 5 hour carb loads. I keep very close track of weight and body
>fat, and plot them on a graph. I have done carb loads only when the rate of
>weight loss begins to plateau. The first month I didn't do any. I've done
>three of them during the second month.
>
>The first was ineffective. Looking back, it's obvious that I was
>psychologically inhibited from eating enough. Didn't want to screw up the
>diet, even though I knew I wasn't going to. I gained only one pound the
>morning after the carb load. I'm 6'1" and lean at 200 pounds, so, I have a
>fairly above average amount of muscle mass, with corresponding glycogen
>storage capacity, so one pound gain was clearly not a full glycogen reload.
>And, as expected, my rate of weight loss did not improve.
>
>The second carb load included 15 Promax bars, a pound of cheese crackers, a
>half pound of cheese-covered popcorn, and 2 quarts of Gatorade. I gained 4
>pounds the next morning, burnt it off in a day, and my rate of weight loss
>improved.
>
>This past weekend's 5 hour carb load included a large box of Captain Crunch,
>2 large cans of fruit cocktail, 8 corn dogs, 2 pounds of cheese crackers, 2
>quarts of Gatorade, and whatever other food failed to find a safe hiding
>spot. I gained 11 pounds by the next morning, but was able to burn it off in
>2 days, so, it was virtually all gylcogen and water. Now THAT is an
>effective carb up! And my rate of weight loss has improved, again. So, my
>advice for carb loads: EAT A LOT OF CARBS!! LOTS!!!

Hmmm ... you're dumping in a ****load of fat with the carb load, what
with the corn dogs, cheese crackers, and cheese corn. Not exactly how
I would do it. I tend to eat a lot of orange/fruit slices candy.

David Cohen
September 13th 05, 03:05 AM
"JMW" > wrote
> "David Cohen" > wrote:
>>
>>A word about 5 hour carb loads. I keep very close track of weight and body
>>fat, and plot them on a graph. I have done carb loads only when the rate
>>of
>>weight loss begins to plateau. The first month I didn't do any. I've done
>>three of them during the second month.
>>
>>The first was ineffective. Looking back, it's obvious that I was
>>psychologically inhibited from eating enough. Didn't want to screw up the
>>diet, even though I knew I wasn't going to. I gained only one pound the
>>morning after the carb load. I'm 6'1" and lean at 200 pounds, so, I have a
>>fairly above average amount of muscle mass, with corresponding glycogen
>>storage capacity, so one pound gain was clearly not a full glycogen
>>reload.
>>And, as expected, my rate of weight loss did not improve.
>>
>>The second carb load included 15 Promax bars, a pound of cheese crackers,
>>a
>>half pound of cheese-covered popcorn, and 2 quarts of Gatorade. I gained 4
>>pounds the next morning, burnt it off in a day, and my rate of weight loss
>>improved.
>>
>>This past weekend's 5 hour carb load included a large box of Captain
>>Crunch,
>>2 large cans of fruit cocktail, 8 corn dogs, 2 pounds of cheese crackers,
>>2
>>quarts of Gatorade, and whatever other food failed to find a safe hiding
>>spot. I gained 11 pounds by the next morning, but was able to burn it off
>>in
>>2 days, so, it was virtually all gylcogen and water. Now THAT is an
>>effective carb up! And my rate of weight loss has improved, again. So, my
>>advice for carb loads: EAT A LOT OF CARBS!! LOTS!!!
>
> Hmmm ... you're dumping in a ****load of fat with the carb load, what
> with the corn dogs, cheese crackers, and cheese corn.

True. I've thought about that before, but, it helps me get in the amount of
food I need to get in. It doesn't seem to be causing a problem, so far.

> Not exactly how
> I would do it. I tend to eat a lot of orange/fruit slices candy.

Ooo, I like those! Next time. Along with Dally's mashed potatoes.

David

Dally
September 13th 05, 03:06 AM
David Cohen wrote:

> As I type this, I'm eating a big Egg Beaters omelette with fat-free cheddar
> cheese, can of tuna, sliced jalepenos, and Tabasco sauce...YUM!

A tuna omelette? Hmmm. Doesn't appeal to me. But I like lox and put
it on things fairly often. A lox & onion & caper omelette would be good.

Me, I ate a big plate of salad greens spritzed with sesame oil with
chunks of meat on top. Quelle suprise. I eat the same damn thing
nearly every day. This time the chunks of meat were turkey breast.

Your diet sounds appealing. I really would like to drop ten more
pounds. I just went for a brutal hill climbing workout on my bike and I
really feel each and every one of those pounds as I try to haul them up
mountainsides.

What sort of workouts are you doing?

Dally

Johny
September 13th 05, 04:02 AM
On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 22:06:37 -0400, Dally > wrote:

> I just went for a brutal hill climbing workout on my bike and I
>really feel each and every one of those pounds as I try to haul them up
>mountainsides.

Why not use a wheelbarrow under your fatass? It'll be easier than
dragging it behind you.
RealyTBR

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and
more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day
the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the
White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
"Anyone with degrees from Yale and Harvard is presumed to be intelligent,
but George W. Bush has managed to overcome that presumption."

David Cohen
September 13th 05, 05:15 AM
"Dally" > wrote
> David Cohen wrote:
>
>> As I type this, I'm eating a big Egg Beaters omelette with fat-free
>> cheddar cheese, can of tuna, sliced jalepenos, and Tabasco sauce...YUM!
>
> A tuna omelette? Hmmm. Doesn't appeal to me. But I like lox and put it
> on things fairly often. A lox & onion & caper omelette would be good.

Yes, that would work on this diet. I'll have to buy some lox. I'll miss the
bagel and cream cheese, but, such is life on a LMMPSMF.

> Me, I ate a big plate of salad greens spritzed with sesame oil with chunks
> of meat on top. Quelle suprise. I eat the same damn thing nearly every
> day. This time the chunks of meat were turkey breast.
>
> Your diet sounds appealing. I really would like to drop ten more pounds.
> I just went for a brutal hill climbing workout on my bike and I really
> feel each and every one of those pounds as I try to haul them up
> mountainsides.
>
> What sort of workouts are you doing?

Minimal weights. Lots of mountain hiking with the (much leaner now) dog.

David

Larry Hodges
September 13th 05, 08:17 AM
David Cohen wrote:
> <copied from his forum www.bodyrecomposition.com without permission,
> but I wrote it, so, screw 'em!>
>
> To recap, Part 1 recounted my one month drop from 250s/30% body fat
> to the 220s/20% BF. Part 2 described the extraordinary improvement in
> vital signs and blood lipid values.
>
> It's now been two months. I'm down to about 210 pounds and 17% body
> fat. The rate of weight loss has slowed, as expected, since my
> maintenance caloric requirement is much less at over 40 pounds
> lighter. To keep the same weight loss rate, I'd have to eat less or
> exercise more. Eating less would affect the protein sparing aspect of
> the Lyle McDonald Modified Protein Sparing Modified Fast (LMMPSMF). I
> don't have the time or desire to increase exercise right now.
>
> As a side note, I HIGHLY recommend mountain hiking on a diet. Las
> Vegas is at about 2000 feet elevation. The trails in the nearby
> mountains range from 9000-12000 feet. This high altitude hiking burns
> glycogen after a carb load FAST, and the improvement in
> cardiovascular conditioning has been remarkable. Peaks or
> destinations that used to take a full day slog, often failing to get
> there, now take 45 minutes or so. Just amazing :)
> As I understand it, the LMMPSMF has two goals: 1) lose a lot of fat
> fast while 2) maintaining muscle mass. My extremely accurate digital
> scale, and my fairly accurate calipers (I've been doing caliper
> measurements for many years, and my inexpensive Slim Guides have a
> reputation for accuracy), indicate that, so far, through my large
> loss of weight over two months, my lean body mass (LBM) has remained
> at about 175 pounds...no loss of muscle mass. So, the diet has met
> both goals.
> A word about 5 hour carb loads. I keep very close track of weight and
> body fat, and plot them on a graph. I have done carb loads only when
> the rate of weight loss begins to plateau. The first month I didn't
> do any. I've done three of them during the second month.
>
> The first was ineffective. Looking back, it's obvious that I was
> psychologically inhibited from eating enough. Didn't want to screw up
> the diet, even though I knew I wasn't going to. I gained only one
> pound the morning after the carb load. I'm 6'1" and lean at 200
> pounds, so, I have a fairly above average amount of muscle mass, with
> corresponding glycogen storage capacity, so one pound gain was
> clearly not a full glycogen reload. And, as expected, my rate of
> weight loss did not improve.
> The second carb load included 15 Promax bars, a pound of cheese
> crackers, a half pound of cheese-covered popcorn, and 2 quarts of
> Gatorade. I gained 4 pounds the next morning, burnt it off in a day,
> and my rate of weight loss improved.
>
> This past weekend's 5 hour carb load included a large box of Captain
> Crunch, 2 large cans of fruit cocktail, 8 corn dogs, 2 pounds of
> cheese crackers, 2 quarts of Gatorade, and whatever other food failed
> to find a safe hiding spot. I gained 11 pounds by the next morning,
> but was able to burn it off in 2 days, so, it was virtually all
> gylcogen and water. Now THAT is an effective carb up! And my rate of
> weight loss has improved, again. So, my advice for carb loads: EAT A
> LOT OF CARBS!! LOTS!!!
> Finally, though I, fairly, I believe, refer to it as the Lyle McDonald
> Modified PSMF, I include thanks to those who contributed to the
> concepts involved, in particular, Elzi Volk.
>
> David

Nice work David. I didn't know you were power dieting. But that's a lot of
weight to drop in a short period of time...nicely done.
--
-Larry

"The troll hasn't been born who can troll us worse than we troll
ourselves." Hugh Beyer

David
September 13th 05, 10:45 AM
"David Cohen" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "Ryan Case" > wrote
> > David Cohen wrote:
> >> "Ryan Case" > wrote
> >>
> >>><snip hard to believe results>
> >>>
> >>>David,
> >>
> >> Ryan,
> >>
> >>>First off let me say WOW!.
> >>
> >> If you were standing on your head, that would be MOM! Which would be
very
> >> inappropriate.
> >
> > In a bit of a mood today, are ya?
>
> If I were standing backwards, I'd be in a doom :(
>
> Upside down, I'd have wood. I'm going with that one :)
>
> >>>Secondly let me appologize for replying to you out of group if you
don't
> >>>care for that kind of thing.
> >>
> >> I think we're all in MFW at the moment. Are you having an out-of-body
> >> experience?
> >
> > Nope, just a reply when reply to author was meant moment. If I wasn't so
> > damn thick skinned I would be red.
> >
> > Haven't had an out of body in ten years, but I have been daydreaming
about
> > them lately.
>
> Ah, just checked email. Now I understand.
> >
> >>>I am about the same as you, build wise. I am between 6'2" and 6'3"
> >>>depending on what time of the day I measure. Right now I sit at 290lbs
> >>>and 30% bodyfat. So that gives me a LBM of about 200lbs. I would really
> >>>love to get back down to where I was years ago before an injury gave me
> >>>excuse to turn myself into a sloth. It sounds like Lyle's latest
endeavor
> >>>may be the way.
> >> If you like eating lean protein and fibrous veges, for a few months,
it
> >> sure can be.
> >>
> >>>Can you give a guy a link to where to pick it up? It is an e-book for
> >>>about $20, no? Is it listed at the body recomp forums somewhere?
> >> You can learn a lot of the basics on the bodyrecomp forum, but, to do
it
> >> right, the book is very useful. It's available at amazon.com, search
> >> under Lyle McDonald, the actual title is "The Rapid Fat Loss Handbook".
> >
> > Is it available e-book? I am an impatient bugger and hate buying
something
> > and then waiting for it to be shipped.
>
> I don't know if it's available as an e-book. You can find that out on the
> bodyrecomp forum. Amazon can get it to you in a few days. But, it's a REAL
> good diet for the impatient, as you see results REAL damn fast. 'Cause
it's
> a modified fast. So it's fast. Modifiably so.
>
> You'll like it. Report back your results.
>
> David
>
Have you posted what your calorie deficit is during your weight loss?

David
September 13th 05, 10:56 AM
"David" > wrote in message
...
>
> "David Cohen" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
> >
> > "Ryan Case" > wrote
> > > David Cohen wrote:
> > >> "Ryan Case" > wrote
> > >>
> > >>><snip hard to believe results>
> > >>>
> > >>>David,
> > >>
> > >> Ryan,
> > >>
> > >>>First off let me say WOW!.
> > >>
> > >> If you were standing on your head, that would be MOM! Which would be
> very
> > >> inappropriate.
> > >
> > > In a bit of a mood today, are ya?
> >
> > If I were standing backwards, I'd be in a doom :(
> >
> > Upside down, I'd have wood. I'm going with that one :)
> >
> > >>>Secondly let me appologize for replying to you out of group if you
> don't
> > >>>care for that kind of thing.
> > >>
> > >> I think we're all in MFW at the moment. Are you having an
out-of-body
> > >> experience?
> > >
> > > Nope, just a reply when reply to author was meant moment. If I wasn't
so
> > > damn thick skinned I would be red.
> > >
> > > Haven't had an out of body in ten years, but I have been daydreaming
> about
> > > them lately.
> >
> > Ah, just checked email. Now I understand.
> > >
> > >>>I am about the same as you, build wise. I am between 6'2" and 6'3"
> > >>>depending on what time of the day I measure. Right now I sit at
290lbs
> > >>>and 30% bodyfat. So that gives me a LBM of about 200lbs. I would
really
> > >>>love to get back down to where I was years ago before an injury gave
me
> > >>>excuse to turn myself into a sloth. It sounds like Lyle's latest
> endeavor
> > >>>may be the way.
> > >> If you like eating lean protein and fibrous veges, for a few months,
> it
> > >> sure can be.
> > >>
> > >>>Can you give a guy a link to where to pick it up? It is an e-book for
> > >>>about $20, no? Is it listed at the body recomp forums somewhere?
> > >> You can learn a lot of the basics on the bodyrecomp forum, but, to
do
> it
> > >> right, the book is very useful. It's available at amazon.com, search
> > >> under Lyle McDonald, the actual title is "The Rapid Fat Loss
Handbook".
> > >
> > > Is it available e-book? I am an impatient bugger and hate buying
> something
> > > and then waiting for it to be shipped.
> >
> > I don't know if it's available as an e-book. You can find that out on
the
> > bodyrecomp forum. Amazon can get it to you in a few days. But, it's a
REAL
> > good diet for the impatient, as you see results REAL damn fast. 'Cause
> it's
> > a modified fast. So it's fast. Modifiably so.
> >
> > You'll like it. Report back your results.
> >
> > David
> >
> Have you posted what your calorie deficit is during your weight loss?
>
Sorry - can you post your calorie consumption and your maintenance level

David
September 13th 05, 01:44 PM
"Dally" > wrote in message
...
> David Cohen wrote:
>
> > Finally, though I, fairly, I believe, refer to it as the Lyle McDonald
> > Modified PSMF, I include thanks to those who contributed to the concepts
> > involved, in particular, Elzi Volk.
>
> Nice job, David.
>
> I just hate the fact that the smug ******* is right so often.
>
> About diet, anyway. He called me a stupid whore today. I am *not* a
whore!

I'd go along with that. Most whores have a certain sex appeal.
>
> I laughed at your carb ups. That's all you could think of? No lush
> delicious chocolate cake? No ice cream sundaes? No big pile of
> steaming mashed potatoes? I *dream* of finding some excuse to do a
> carb-up. It's almost enough to make me consider doing his diet again.
>
>
> Dally

Steve Freides
September 13th 05, 02:31 PM
"David Cohen" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> <copied from his forum www.bodyrecomposition.com without permission,
> but I wrote it, so, screw 'em!>
>
> To recap, Part 1 recounted my one month drop from 250s/30% body fat to
> the 220s/20% BF. Part 2 described the extraordinary improvement in
> vital signs and blood lipid values.
>
> It's now been two months. I'm down to about 210 pounds and 17% body
> fat. The rate of weight loss has slowed, as expected, since my
> maintenance caloric requirement is much less at over 40 pounds
> lighter. To keep the same weight loss rate, I'd have to eat less or
> exercise more. Eating less would affect the protein sparing aspect of
> the Lyle McDonald Modified Protein Sparing Modified Fast (LMMPSMF). I
> don't have the time or desire to increase exercise right now.
>
> As a side note, I HIGHLY recommend mountain hiking on a diet. Las
> Vegas is at about 2000 feet elevation. The trails in the nearby
> mountains range from 9000-12000 feet. This high altitude hiking burns
> glycogen after a carb load FAST, and the improvement in cardiovascular
> conditioning has been remarkable. Peaks or destinations that used to
> take a full day slog, often failing to get there, now take 45 minutes
> or so. Just amazing :)
>
> As I understand it, the LMMPSMF has two goals: 1) lose a lot of fat
> fast while 2) maintaining muscle mass. My extremely accurate digital
> scale, and my fairly accurate calipers (I've been doing caliper
> measurements for many years, and my inexpensive Slim Guides have a
> reputation for accuracy), indicate that, so far, through my large loss
> of weight over two months, my lean body mass (LBM) has remained at
> about 175 pounds...no loss of muscle mass. So, the diet has met both
> goals.
>
> A word about 5 hour carb loads. I keep very close track of weight and
> body fat, and plot them on a graph. I have done carb loads only when
> the rate of weight loss begins to plateau. The first month I didn't do
> any. I've done three of them during the second month.
>
> The first was ineffective. Looking back, it's obvious that I was
> psychologically inhibited from eating enough. Didn't want to screw up
> the diet, even though I knew I wasn't going to. I gained only one
> pound the morning after the carb load. I'm 6'1" and lean at 200
> pounds, so, I have a fairly above average amount of muscle mass, with
> corresponding glycogen storage capacity, so one pound gain was clearly
> not a full glycogen reload. And, as expected, my rate of weight loss
> did not improve.
>
> The second carb load included 15 Promax bars, a pound of cheese
> crackers, a half pound of cheese-covered popcorn, and 2 quarts of
> Gatorade. I gained 4 pounds the next morning, burnt it off in a day,
> and my rate of weight loss improved.
>
> This past weekend's 5 hour carb load included a large box of Captain
> Crunch, 2 large cans of fruit cocktail, 8 corn dogs, 2 pounds of
> cheese crackers, 2 quarts of Gatorade, and whatever other food failed
> to find a safe hiding spot. I gained 11 pounds by the next morning,
> but was able to burn it off in 2 days, so, it was virtually all
> gylcogen and water. Now THAT is an effective carb up! And my rate of
> weight loss has improved, again. So, my advice for carb loads: EAT A
> LOT OF CARBS!! LOTS!!!
>
> Finally, though I, fairly, I believe, refer to it as the Lyle McDonald
> Modified PSMF, I include thanks to those who contributed to the
> concepts involved, in particular, Elzi Volk.

David, what are your plans long-term - what weight do you plan to
stabilize at and how do you plan to eat and exercise to achieve that,
this in comparison with both your pre-diet and current eating and
exercise practices? Are you concerned that losing as fast as you did,
it will be hard to maintain in the long run? And why did you choose to
drop the weight at this time? I don't imagine you're entering a BB
contest any time soon. :)

Just curious.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

Hobbes
September 13th 05, 03:11 PM
In article et>,
"David Cohen" > wrote:

> "Dally" > wrote
> > David Cohen wrote:
> >
> >> Finally, though I, fairly, I believe, refer to it as the Lyle McDonald
> >> Modified PSMF, I include thanks to those who contributed to the concepts
> >> involved, in particular, Elzi Volk.
> >
> > Nice job, David.
>
> Thank you.
>
> > I just hate the fact that the smug ******* is right so often.
> >
> > About diet, anyway. He called me a stupid whore today. I am *not* a
> > whore!
> >
> > I laughed at your carb ups. That's all you could think of? No lush
> > delicious chocolate cake? No ice cream sundaes? No big pile of steaming
> > mashed potatoes? I *dream* of finding some excuse to do a carb-up. It's
> > almost enough to make me consider doing his diet again.
>
> I really like Promax bars and cheese crackers. Ice cream has too much fat.
> Mashed potatoes are a good idea...next time. Though a stick of butter on top
> is out of the question :(

No butter? Dayum. I was thinking of a dozen fresh from the oven whole
wheat bagels from the local bakery, but butter is essential.

Who makes up these rules anyhow?

--
Keith

Dally
September 13th 05, 05:45 PM
Hobbes wrote:
> In article et>,
> "David Cohen" > wrote:

>>I really like Promax bars and cheese crackers. Ice cream has too much fat.
>>Mashed potatoes are a good idea...next time. Though a stick of butter on top
>>is out of the question :(
>
>
> No butter? Dayum. I was thinking of a dozen fresh from the oven whole
> wheat bagels from the local bakery, but butter is essential.
>
> Who makes up these rules anyhow?

Coincidentally, someone who is lactose intolerant.

Dally

Hugh Beyer
September 13th 05, 06:15 PM
"David Cohen" > wrote in
ink.net:

> This past weekend's 5 hour carb load included a large box of Captain
> Crunch, 2 large cans of fruit cocktail, 8 corn dogs, 2 pounds of cheese
> crackers, 2 quarts of Gatorade, and whatever other food failed to find a
> safe hiding spot. I gained 11 pounds by the next morning, but was able
> to burn it off in 2 days, so, it was virtually all gylcogen and water.
> Now THAT is an effective carb up! And my rate of weight loss has
> improved, again. So, my advice for carb loads: EAT A LOT OF CARBS!!
> LOTS!!!
>

Heh. Don't you love explaining to people that you're on a diet during a
carb-up like that?

Hugh


--
Exercise is a dirty word. Whenever I hear it, I wash my mouth out with
chocolate. ("Ladi")

Dally
September 13th 05, 06:40 PM
Hugh Beyer wrote:

> "David Cohen" > wrote in
> ink.net:
>
>
>>This past weekend's 5 hour carb load included a large box of Captain
>>Crunch, 2 large cans of fruit cocktail, 8 corn dogs, 2 pounds of cheese
>>crackers, 2 quarts of Gatorade, and whatever other food failed to find a
>>safe hiding spot. I gained 11 pounds by the next morning, but was able
>>to burn it off in 2 days, so, it was virtually all gylcogen and water.
>>Now THAT is an effective carb up! And my rate of weight loss has
>>improved, again. So, my advice for carb loads: EAT A LOT OF CARBS!!
>>LOTS!!!
>>
>
>
> Heh. Don't you love explaining to people that you're on a diet during a
> carb-up like that?


Mistress Krista said that someone came up to her once and commented on
the amount of food she was eating and Krista said, "Oh yes, I eat like
this all the time and never gain a pound." That's because MK is evil.
In a good way.

Dally

David Cohen
September 13th 05, 06:57 PM
"David" > wrote
> "David" > wrote
>> "David Cohen" > wrote >> >
>> > "Ryan Case" > wrote
>> > > David Cohen wrote:
>> > >> "Ryan Case" > wrote
>> > >>
>> > >>><snip hard to believe results>
>> > >>>
>> > >>>David,
>> > >>
>> > >> Ryan,
>> > >>
>> > >>>First off let me say WOW!.
>> > >>
>> > >> If you were standing on your head, that would be MOM! Which would be
>> very
>> > >> inappropriate.
>> > >
>> > > In a bit of a mood today, are ya?
>> >
>> > If I were standing backwards, I'd be in a doom :(
>> >
>> > Upside down, I'd have wood. I'm going with that one :)
>> >
>> > >>>Secondly let me appologize for replying to you out of group if you
>> don't
>> > >>>care for that kind of thing.
>> > >>
>> > >> I think we're all in MFW at the moment. Are you having an
> out-of-body
>> > >> experience?
>> > >
>> > > Nope, just a reply when reply to author was meant moment. If I wasn't
> so
>> > > damn thick skinned I would be red.
>> > >
>> > > Haven't had an out of body in ten years, but I have been daydreaming
>> about
>> > > them lately.
>> >
>> > Ah, just checked email. Now I understand.
>> > >
>> > >>>I am about the same as you, build wise. I am between 6'2" and 6'3"
>> > >>>depending on what time of the day I measure. Right now I sit at
> 290lbs
>> > >>>and 30% bodyfat. So that gives me a LBM of about 200lbs. I would
> really
>> > >>>love to get back down to where I was years ago before an injury gave
> me
>> > >>>excuse to turn myself into a sloth. It sounds like Lyle's latest
>> endeavor
>> > >>>may be the way.
>> > >> If you like eating lean protein and fibrous veges, for a few
>> > >> months,
>> it
>> > >> sure can be.
>> > >>
>> > >>>Can you give a guy a link to where to pick it up? It is an e-book
>> > >>>for
>> > >>>about $20, no? Is it listed at the body recomp forums somewhere?
>> > >> You can learn a lot of the basics on the bodyrecomp forum, but, to
> do
>> it
>> > >> right, the book is very useful. It's available at amazon.com, search
>> > >> under Lyle McDonald, the actual title is "The Rapid Fat Loss
> Handbook".
>> > >
>> > > Is it available e-book? I am an impatient bugger and hate buying
>> something
>> > > and then waiting for it to be shipped.
>> >
>> > I don't know if it's available as an e-book. You can find that out on
> the
>> > bodyrecomp forum. Amazon can get it to you in a few days. But, it's a
> REAL
>> > good diet for the impatient, as you see results REAL damn fast. 'Cause
>> it's
>> > a modified fast. So it's fast. Modifiably so.
>> >
>> > You'll like it. Report back your results.
>> >
>> > David
>> >
>> Have you posted what your calorie deficit is during your weight loss?
>>
> Sorry - can you post your calorie consumption and your maintenance level

Yeah, I understood the first question, ketosis hasn't wits my dulled.

At a starting weight of 254 pounds, using the commonly cited 15
calories/pound for maintenance for average exercise levels, I was at 3810
calories/day. At 210, I'm down to 3150 calories/day.

I am "supposed" to eat about 200 grams protein/day, but I rarely get there.
The amount of fibrous veges are unregulated, so, I don't know how many
calories I'm getting there, but the volume isn't that great (I'm learning to
hate green peppers and cauliflower) and the calories are pretty small,
regardless. So, calorie consumption is somewhere between 800 and 1000
calories per day. (Before you say, "Woah, that's a tiny amount" keep in mind
this IS a short term fast.)

Ergo, therefore, so, at long last, we arrive at a starting calorie deficit
of 2810-3010 calories/day, and a current deficit of 2150-2350 calories/day.

David
the shrinking one, not you

David Cohen
September 13th 05, 07:02 PM
"Hugh Beyer" > wrote
> "David Cohen" > wrote
>
>> This past weekend's 5 hour carb load included a large box of Captain
>> Crunch, 2 large cans of fruit cocktail, 8 corn dogs, 2 pounds of cheese
>> crackers, 2 quarts of Gatorade, and whatever other food failed to find a
>> safe hiding spot. I gained 11 pounds by the next morning, but was able
>> to burn it off in 2 days, so, it was virtually all gylcogen and water.
>> Now THAT is an effective carb up! And my rate of weight loss has
>> improved, again. So, my advice for carb loads: EAT A LOT OF CARBS!!
>> LOTS!!!
>>
>
> Heh. Don't you love explaining to people that you're on a diet during a
> carb-up like that?

Oh, yeah. I love it when the fat chicks at work ask me what I ate yesterday
on my diet. Their jaws drop so far, the fried chicken falls out. Then they
all want to know the details of the diet. I absolutely refuse to discuss it
with them, as I know exactly how non-compliant they are, and then I'll be
bitched at when they fail to lose weight.

David

David Cohen
September 13th 05, 07:03 PM
"Hobbes" > wrote
> "David Cohen" > wrote:
>> "Dally" > wrote
>> > David Cohen wrote:
>> >
>> >> Finally, though I, fairly, I believe, refer to it as the Lyle McDonald
>> >> Modified PSMF, I include thanks to those who contributed to the
>> >> concepts
>> >> involved, in particular, Elzi Volk.
>> >
>> > Nice job, David.
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> > I just hate the fact that the smug ******* is right so often.
>> >
>> > About diet, anyway. He called me a stupid whore today. I am *not* a
>> > whore!
>> >
>> > I laughed at your carb ups. That's all you could think of? No lush
>> > delicious chocolate cake? No ice cream sundaes? No big pile of
>> > steaming
>> > mashed potatoes? I *dream* of finding some excuse to do a carb-up.
>> > It's
>> > almost enough to make me consider doing his diet again.
>>
>> I really like Promax bars and cheese crackers. Ice cream has too much
>> fat.
>> Mashed potatoes are a good idea...next time. Though a stick of butter on
>> top
>> is out of the question :(
>
> No butter? Dayum. I was thinking of a dozen fresh from the oven whole
> wheat bagels from the local bakery, but butter is essential.
>
> Who makes up these rules anyhow?

Damned Palestinians.

David

David Cohen
September 13th 05, 07:13 PM
"Steve Freides" > wrote
> "David Cohen" > wrote
>> <copied from his forum www.bodyrecomposition.com without permission, but
>> I wrote it, so, screw 'em!>
>>
>> To recap, Part 1 recounted my one month drop from 250s/30% body fat to
>> the 220s/20% BF. Part 2 described the extraordinary improvement in vital
>> signs and blood lipid values.
>>
>> It's now been two months. I'm down to about 210 pounds and 17% body fat.
>> The rate of weight loss has slowed, as expected, since my maintenance
>> caloric requirement is much less at over 40 pounds lighter. To keep the
>> same weight loss rate, I'd have to eat less or exercise more. Eating less
>> would affect the protein sparing aspect of the Lyle McDonald Modified
>> Protein Sparing Modified Fast (LMMPSMF). I don't have the time or desire
>> to increase exercise right now.
>>
>> As a side note, I HIGHLY recommend mountain hiking on a diet. Las Vegas
>> is at about 2000 feet elevation. The trails in the nearby mountains range
>> from 9000-12000 feet. This high altitude hiking burns glycogen after a
>> carb load FAST, and the improvement in cardiovascular conditioning has
>> been remarkable. Peaks or destinations that used to take a full day slog,
>> often failing to get there, now take 45 minutes or so. Just amazing :)
>>
>> As I understand it, the LMMPSMF has two goals: 1) lose a lot of fat fast
>> while 2) maintaining muscle mass. My extremely accurate digital scale,
>> and my fairly accurate calipers (I've been doing caliper measurements for
>> many years, and my inexpensive Slim Guides have a reputation for
>> accuracy), indicate that, so far, through my large loss of weight over
>> two months, my lean body mass (LBM) has remained at about 175 pounds...no
>> loss of muscle mass. So, the diet has met both goals.
>>
>> A word about 5 hour carb loads. I keep very close track of weight and
>> body fat, and plot them on a graph. I have done carb loads only when the
>> rate of weight loss begins to plateau. The first month I didn't do any.
>> I've done three of them during the second month.
>>
>> The first was ineffective. Looking back, it's obvious that I was
>> psychologically inhibited from eating enough. Didn't want to screw up the
>> diet, even though I knew I wasn't going to. I gained only one pound the
>> morning after the carb load. I'm 6'1" and lean at 200 pounds, so, I have
>> a fairly above average amount of muscle mass, with corresponding glycogen
>> storage capacity, so one pound gain was clearly not a full glycogen
>> reload. And, as expected, my rate of weight loss did not improve.
>>
>> The second carb load included 15 Promax bars, a pound of cheese crackers,
>> a half pound of cheese-covered popcorn, and 2 quarts of Gatorade. I
>> gained 4 pounds the next morning, burnt it off in a day, and my rate of
>> weight loss improved.
>>
>> This past weekend's 5 hour carb load included a large box of Captain
>> Crunch, 2 large cans of fruit cocktail, 8 corn dogs, 2 pounds of cheese
>> crackers, 2 quarts of Gatorade, and whatever other food failed to find a
>> safe hiding spot. I gained 11 pounds by the next morning, but was able to
>> burn it off in 2 days, so, it was virtually all gylcogen and water. Now
>> THAT is an effective carb up! And my rate of weight loss has improved,
>> again. So, my advice for carb loads: EAT A LOT OF CARBS!! LOTS!!!
>>
>> Finally, though I, fairly, I believe, refer to it as the Lyle McDonald
>> Modified PSMF, I include thanks to those who contributed to the concepts
>> involved, in particular, Elzi Volk.
>
> David, what are your plans long-term - what weight do you plan to
> stabilize at and how do you plan to eat and exercise to achieve that, this
> in comparison with both your pre-diet and current eating and exercise
> practices?

I am planning on maintaining adequate lean protein intake, continue to
supplement EFAs, keeping the fibrous veges (with some goddamn butter on
them!), adding in some fruit, some whole grains, some starchy carbs, and
trying my best to minimize nutrient-sparse simple carbs and non-EFA fats.

> Are you concerned that losing as fast as you did, it will be hard to
> maintain in the long run?

No. Maintenance should not be affected by rate of initial weight loss.

> And why did you choose to drop the weight at this time?

Turned 50 (the x0 birthdays often have profound effects), had crappy lipid
profile, had lifestyle issues with moving my bulk around comfortably.

> I don't imagine you're entering a BB contest any time soon. :)

HEY! They have contests for old ****ers!

David

David Cohen
September 13th 05, 07:22 PM
"DZ" > wrote
> Dally > wrote:
>> Hobbes wrote:
>>> "David Cohen" > wrote:
>>>>I really like Promax bars and cheese crackers. Ice cream has too
>>>>much fat. Mashed potatoes are a good idea...next time. Though a
>>>>stick of butter on top is out of the question :(
>>>
>>>
>>> No butter? Dayum. I was thinking of a dozen fresh from the oven whole
>>> wheat bagels from the local bakery, but butter is essential.
>>>
>>> Who makes up these rules anyhow?
>>
>> Coincidentally, someone who is lactose intolerant.
>
> Shouldn't be a problem for David who gulps 46 LEF capsules at once. He
> probably has a lactase capsule somewhere in there.

Dayum. Psychic. Were you involved in those old Soviet mind control
experiments and distant viewing?

GET OUT OF MY HEAD!!

David

JMW
September 13th 05, 07:39 PM
David Cohen wrote:
> "DZ" > wrote
> > Dally > wrote:
> >> Hobbes wrote:
> >>> "David Cohen" > wrote:
> >>>>I really like Promax bars and cheese crackers. Ice cream has too
> >>>>much fat. Mashed potatoes are a good idea...next time. Though a
> >>>>stick of butter on top is out of the question :(
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> No butter? Dayum. I was thinking of a dozen fresh from the oven whole
> >>> wheat bagels from the local bakery, but butter is essential.
> >>>
> >>> Who makes up these rules anyhow?
> >>
> >> Coincidentally, someone who is lactose intolerant.
> >
> > Shouldn't be a problem for David who gulps 46 LEF capsules at once. He
> > probably has a lactase capsule somewhere in there.
>
> Dayum. Psychic. Were you involved in those old Soviet mind control
> experiments and distant viewing?
>
> GET OUT OF MY HEAD!!

Dmitri is an Internal Affairs agent for the International Zionist
Cabal. They like the know what their members are doing.

OmManiPadmeOmelet
September 13th 05, 07:55 PM
In article . com>,
"JMW" > wrote:

> David Cohen wrote:
> > "DZ" > wrote
> > > Dally > wrote:
> > >> Hobbes wrote:
> > >>> "David Cohen" > wrote:
> > >>>>I really like Promax bars and cheese crackers. Ice cream has too
> > >>>>much fat. Mashed potatoes are a good idea...next time. Though a
> > >>>>stick of butter on top is out of the question :(
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> No butter? Dayum. I was thinking of a dozen fresh from the oven whole
> > >>> wheat bagels from the local bakery, but butter is essential.
> > >>>
> > >>> Who makes up these rules anyhow?
> > >>
> > >> Coincidentally, someone who is lactose intolerant.
> > >
> > > Shouldn't be a problem for David who gulps 46 LEF capsules at once. He
> > > probably has a lactase capsule somewhere in there.
> >
> > Dayum. Psychic. Were you involved in those old Soviet mind control
> > experiments and distant viewing?
> >
> > GET OUT OF MY HEAD!!
>
> Dmitri is an Internal Affairs agent for the International Zionist
> Cabal. They like the know what their members are doing.
>

Isn't Cabal spelled with a Q? ;-)
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

Dally
September 13th 05, 08:38 PM
DZ wrote:

> I failed actually. I was counting on Dally to post -
> '"Someone who is lactose intolerant" referred to Lyle, not David'.
> so that it all goes unnoticed.

I figured David knew who I meant.

And that you were probably right about the LEF capsules anyway.

So I passed on commenting.

Sorry, I'll try to be more predictable in the future.

Dally

Steve Freides
September 13th 05, 09:00 PM
"David Cohen" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "Steve Freides" > wrote
>> "David Cohen" > wrote
>>> <copied from his forum www.bodyrecomposition.com without permission,
>>> but I wrote it, so, screw 'em!>
>>>
>>> To recap, Part 1 recounted my one month drop from 250s/30% body fat
>>> to the 220s/20% BF. Part 2 described the extraordinary improvement
>>> in vital signs and blood lipid values.
>>>
>>> It's now been two months. I'm down to about 210 pounds and 17% body
>>> fat. The rate of weight loss has slowed, as expected, since my
>>> maintenance caloric requirement is much less at over 40 pounds
>>> lighter. To keep the same weight loss rate, I'd have to eat less or
>>> exercise more. Eating less would affect the protein sparing aspect
>>> of the Lyle McDonald Modified Protein Sparing Modified Fast
>>> (LMMPSMF). I don't have the time or desire to increase exercise
>>> right now.
>>>
>>> As a side note, I HIGHLY recommend mountain hiking on a diet. Las
>>> Vegas is at about 2000 feet elevation. The trails in the nearby
>>> mountains range from 9000-12000 feet. This high altitude hiking
>>> burns glycogen after a carb load FAST, and the improvement in
>>> cardiovascular conditioning has been remarkable. Peaks or
>>> destinations that used to take a full day slog, often failing to get
>>> there, now take 45 minutes or so. Just amazing :)
>>>
>>> As I understand it, the LMMPSMF has two goals: 1) lose a lot of fat
>>> fast while 2) maintaining muscle mass. My extremely accurate digital
>>> scale, and my fairly accurate calipers (I've been doing caliper
>>> measurements for many years, and my inexpensive Slim Guides have a
>>> reputation for accuracy), indicate that, so far, through my large
>>> loss of weight over two months, my lean body mass (LBM) has remained
>>> at about 175 pounds...no loss of muscle mass. So, the diet has met
>>> both goals.
>>>
>>> A word about 5 hour carb loads. I keep very close track of weight
>>> and body fat, and plot them on a graph. I have done carb loads only
>>> when the rate of weight loss begins to plateau. The first month I
>>> didn't do any. I've done three of them during the second month.
>>>
>>> The first was ineffective. Looking back, it's obvious that I was
>>> psychologically inhibited from eating enough. Didn't want to screw
>>> up the diet, even though I knew I wasn't going to. I gained only one
>>> pound the morning after the carb load. I'm 6'1" and lean at 200
>>> pounds, so, I have a fairly above average amount of muscle mass,
>>> with corresponding glycogen storage capacity, so one pound gain was
>>> clearly not a full glycogen reload. And, as expected, my rate of
>>> weight loss did not improve.
>>>
>>> The second carb load included 15 Promax bars, a pound of cheese
>>> crackers, a half pound of cheese-covered popcorn, and 2 quarts of
>>> Gatorade. I gained 4 pounds the next morning, burnt it off in a day,
>>> and my rate of weight loss improved.
>>>
>>> This past weekend's 5 hour carb load included a large box of Captain
>>> Crunch, 2 large cans of fruit cocktail, 8 corn dogs, 2 pounds of
>>> cheese crackers, 2 quarts of Gatorade, and whatever other food
>>> failed to find a safe hiding spot. I gained 11 pounds by the next
>>> morning, but was able to burn it off in 2 days, so, it was virtually
>>> all gylcogen and water. Now THAT is an effective carb up! And my
>>> rate of weight loss has improved, again. So, my advice for carb
>>> loads: EAT A LOT OF CARBS!! LOTS!!!
>>>
>>> Finally, though I, fairly, I believe, refer to it as the Lyle
>>> McDonald Modified PSMF, I include thanks to those who contributed to
>>> the concepts involved, in particular, Elzi Volk.
>>
>> David, what are your plans long-term - what weight do you plan to
>> stabilize at and how do you plan to eat and exercise to achieve that,
>> this in comparison with both your pre-diet and current eating and
>> exercise practices?
>
> I am planning on maintaining adequate lean protein intake, continue to
> supplement EFAs, keeping the fibrous veges (with some goddamn butter
> on them!), adding in some fruit, some whole grains, some starchy
> carbs, and trying my best to minimize nutrient-sparse simple carbs and
> non-EFA fats.

Not trying to be PITA but that doesn't answer my question - are you
planning on staying at your current weight and body composition or
simply returning to a more normal diet and whatever happens, happens?
Doing the things you list doesn't guarantee anything about your weight
going up, down, or staying the same, or your body composition, for that
matter. If I read your plan correctly, you'll be eating a normal,
healthy diet like at least some of the rest of us and therefore subject
to the great "calories in versus calories out" scheme we all labor
under - unless you've discovered some magic the rest of us don't know
about. :)

>> Are you concerned that losing as fast as you did, it will be hard to
>> maintain in the long run?
>
> No. Maintenance should not be affected by rate of initial weight loss.

There's a fair amount of stastical evidence that suggests otherwise,
basically that the faster you lose it, the less likely you are to keep
it off. I don't know why that is, though.

>> And why did you choose to drop the weight at this time?
>
> Turned 50 (the x0 birthdays often have profound effects), had crappy
> lipid profile, had lifestyle issues with moving my bulk around
> comfortably.

Good on you for doing it, and welcome to the 50-something club. I
joined about half a year ago.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com


>> I don't imagine you're entering a BB contest any time soon. :)
>
> HEY! They have contests for old ****ers!
>
> David
>
>

Peter Allen
September 13th 05, 09:36 PM
David Cohen wrote:
> "Hobbes" > wrote
>> "David Cohen" > wrote:
>>> "Dally" > wrote
>>>> David Cohen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Finally, though I, fairly, I believe, refer to it as the Lyle
>>>>> McDonald Modified PSMF, I include thanks to those who contributed
>>>>> to the concepts
>>>>> involved, in particular, Elzi Volk.
>>>>
>>>> Nice job, David.
>>>
>>> Thank you.
>>>
>>>> I just hate the fact that the smug ******* is right so often.
>>>>
>>>> About diet, anyway. He called me a stupid whore today. I am
>>>> *not* a whore!
>>>>
>>>> I laughed at your carb ups. That's all you could think of? No
>>>> lush delicious chocolate cake? No ice cream sundaes? No big pile
>>>> of steaming
>>>> mashed potatoes? I *dream* of finding some excuse to do a carb-up.
>>>> It's
>>>> almost enough to make me consider doing his diet again.
>>>
>>> I really like Promax bars and cheese crackers. Ice cream has too
>>> much fat.
>>> Mashed potatoes are a good idea...next time. Though a stick of
>>> butter on top
>>> is out of the question :(
>>
>> No butter? Dayum. I was thinking of a dozen fresh from the oven whole
>> wheat bagels from the local bakery, but butter is essential.
>>
>> Who makes up these rules anyhow?
>
> Damned Palestinians.

In a month or so you'll be walking into Jerusalem with a blank stare and a
Semtex belt.

PSMF stands for 'Palestinian Secret Mind-control Formula'...

Peter

David Cohen
September 13th 05, 09:59 PM
"Steve Freides" > wrote
> "David Cohen" > wrote
>> "Steve Freides" > wrote
>>> "David Cohen" > wrote
>>>> <copied from his forum www.bodyrecomposition.com without permission,
>>>> but I wrote it, so, screw 'em!>
>>>>
>>>> To recap, Part 1 recounted my one month drop from 250s/30% body fat to
>>>> the 220s/20% BF. Part 2 described the extraordinary improvement in
>>>> vital signs and blood lipid values.
>>>>
>>>> It's now been two months. I'm down to about 210 pounds and 17% body
>>>> fat. The rate of weight loss has slowed, as expected, since my
>>>> maintenance caloric requirement is much less at over 40 pounds lighter.
>>>> To keep the same weight loss rate, I'd have to eat less or exercise
>>>> more. Eating less would affect the protein sparing aspect of the Lyle
>>>> McDonald Modified Protein Sparing Modified Fast (LMMPSMF). I don't have
>>>> the time or desire to increase exercise right now.
>>>>
>>>> As a side note, I HIGHLY recommend mountain hiking on a diet. Las Vegas
>>>> is at about 2000 feet elevation. The trails in the nearby mountains
>>>> range from 9000-12000 feet. This high altitude hiking burns glycogen
>>>> after a carb load FAST, and the improvement in cardiovascular
>>>> conditioning has been remarkable. Peaks or destinations that used to
>>>> take a full day slog, often failing to get there, now take 45 minutes
>>>> or so. Just amazing :)
>>>>
>>>> As I understand it, the LMMPSMF has two goals: 1) lose a lot of fat
>>>> fast while 2) maintaining muscle mass. My extremely accurate digital
>>>> scale, and my fairly accurate calipers (I've been doing caliper
>>>> measurements for many years, and my inexpensive Slim Guides have a
>>>> reputation for accuracy), indicate that, so far, through my large loss
>>>> of weight over two months, my lean body mass (LBM) has remained at
>>>> about 175 pounds...no loss of muscle mass. So, the diet has met both
>>>> goals.
>>>>
>>>> A word about 5 hour carb loads. I keep very close track of weight and
>>>> body fat, and plot them on a graph. I have done carb loads only when
>>>> the rate of weight loss begins to plateau. The first month I didn't do
>>>> any. I've done three of them during the second month.
>>>>
>>>> The first was ineffective. Looking back, it's obvious that I was
>>>> psychologically inhibited from eating enough. Didn't want to screw up
>>>> the diet, even though I knew I wasn't going to. I gained only one pound
>>>> the morning after the carb load. I'm 6'1" and lean at 200 pounds, so, I
>>>> have a fairly above average amount of muscle mass, with corresponding
>>>> glycogen storage capacity, so one pound gain was clearly not a full
>>>> glycogen reload. And, as expected, my rate of weight loss did not
>>>> improve.
>>>>
>>>> The second carb load included 15 Promax bars, a pound of cheese
>>>> crackers, a half pound of cheese-covered popcorn, and 2 quarts of
>>>> Gatorade. I gained 4 pounds the next morning, burnt it off in a day,
>>>> and my rate of weight loss improved.
>>>>
>>>> This past weekend's 5 hour carb load included a large box of Captain
>>>> Crunch, 2 large cans of fruit cocktail, 8 corn dogs, 2 pounds of cheese
>>>> crackers, 2 quarts of Gatorade, and whatever other food failed to find
>>>> a safe hiding spot. I gained 11 pounds by the next morning, but was
>>>> able to burn it off in 2 days, so, it was virtually all gylcogen and
>>>> water. Now THAT is an effective carb up! And my rate of weight loss has
>>>> improved, again. So, my advice for carb loads: EAT A LOT OF CARBS!!
>>>> LOTS!!!
>>>>
>>>> Finally, though I, fairly, I believe, refer to it as the Lyle McDonald
>>>> Modified PSMF, I include thanks to those who contributed to the
>>>> concepts involved, in particular, Elzi Volk.
>>>
>>> David, what are your plans long-term - what weight do you plan to
>>> stabilize at and how do you plan to eat and exercise to achieve that,
>>> this in comparison with both your pre-diet and current eating and
>>> exercise practices?
>>
>> I am planning on maintaining adequate lean protein intake, continue to
>> supplement EFAs, keeping the fibrous veges (with some goddamn butter on
>> them!), adding in some fruit, some whole grains, some starchy carbs, and
>> trying my best to minimize nutrient-sparse simple carbs and non-EFA fats.
>
> Not trying to be PITA

Try? I thought you had a natural ability there, Steve :)

> but that doesn't answer my question - are you planning on staying at your
> current weight and body composition or simply returning to a more normal
> diet and whatever happens, happens?

Oh, damn, I actually forgot to answer that part. I would like to get to, and
stay around, low double digit BF, which would be around 200 pounds. I have
been in single digits a couple times over the last twenty years, and found
it to be too much work to maintain.

> Doing the things you list doesn't guarantee anything about your weight
> going up, down, or staying the same, or your body composition, for that
> matter. If I read your plan correctly, you'll be eating a normal, healthy
> diet like at least some of the rest of us and therefore subject to the
> great "calories in versus calories out" scheme we all labor under - unless
> you've discovered some magic the rest of us don't know about. :)

Bulimia: it's what's for dinner.
>
>>> Are you concerned that losing as fast as you did, it will be hard to
>>> maintain in the long run?
>>
>> No. Maintenance should not be affected by rate of initial weight loss.
>
> There's a fair amount of stastical evidence that suggests otherwise,
> basically that the faster you lose it, the less likely you are to keep it
> off. I don't know why that is, though.

I suspect the main reason is psychological. Addictive personalities...and I
suspect most fat folks are that way to some extent...have a very hard time
losing weight and keeping it off. I love to eat, but have an extremely
non-addictive personality, so, when I decide to diet, I can easily do it.
Maybe I'll set an automatic trigger weight, and if I hit that weight, I
start the diet again.

>>> And why did you choose to drop the weight at this time?
>>
>> Turned 50 (the x0 birthdays often have profound effects), had crappy
>> lipid profile, had lifestyle issues with moving my bulk around
>> comfortably.
>
> Good on you for doing it, and welcome to the 50-something club. I joined
> about half a year ago.

Had your colonoscopy yet? I keep putting it off. I have no family history,
and am very healthy...and whatever other rationalizations I need.

I did an interesting ultrasound screening process last week, as part of my
get healthy/baseline testing/50-year-old thing. They did an ultrasound
examination of my carotid arteries, thyroid, abdominal aorta, kidneys,
liver, gallbladder, and wrist (for bone density). I'm dense and healthy,
except an asysptomatic small gallstone.

And I'm not pregnant.

David

David Cohen
September 13th 05, 10:05 PM
"Peter Allen" > wrote
> David Cohen wrote:
>> "Hobbes" > wrote
>>> "David Cohen" > wrote:
>>>> "Dally" > wrote
>>>>> David Cohen wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Finally, though I, fairly, I believe, refer to it as the Lyle
>>>>>> McDonald Modified PSMF, I include thanks to those who contributed
>>>>>> to the concepts
>>>>>> involved, in particular, Elzi Volk.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nice job, David.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you.
>>>>
>>>>> I just hate the fact that the smug ******* is right so often.
>>>>>
>>>>> About diet, anyway. He called me a stupid whore today. I am
>>>>> *not* a whore!
>>>>>
>>>>> I laughed at your carb ups. That's all you could think of? No
>>>>> lush delicious chocolate cake? No ice cream sundaes? No big pile
>>>>> of steaming
>>>>> mashed potatoes? I *dream* of finding some excuse to do a carb-up.
>>>>> It's
>>>>> almost enough to make me consider doing his diet again.
>>>>
>>>> I really like Promax bars and cheese crackers. Ice cream has too
>>>> much fat.
>>>> Mashed potatoes are a good idea...next time. Though a stick of
>>>> butter on top
>>>> is out of the question :(
>>>
>>> No butter? Dayum. I was thinking of a dozen fresh from the oven whole
>>> wheat bagels from the local bakery, but butter is essential.
>>>
>>> Who makes up these rules anyhow?
>>
>> Damned Palestinians.
>
> In a month or so you'll be walking into Jerusalem with a blank stare and a
> Semtex belt.
>
> PSMF stands for 'Palestinian Secret Mind-control Formula'...

AHA!! I was right about Lyle!

Better triple the layers in my aluminum foil hat.

David

David
September 13th 05, 10:18 PM
"David Cohen" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> "David" > wrote
> > "David" > wrote
> >> "David Cohen" > wrote >> >
> >> > "Ryan Case" > wrote
> >> > > David Cohen wrote:
> >> > >> "Ryan Case" > wrote
> >> > >>
> >> > >>><snip hard to believe results>
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>David,
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Ryan,
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>First off let me say WOW!.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> If you were standing on your head, that would be MOM! Which would
be
> >> very
> >> > >> inappropriate.
> >> > >
> >> > > In a bit of a mood today, are ya?
> >> >
> >> > If I were standing backwards, I'd be in a doom :(
> >> >
> >> > Upside down, I'd have wood. I'm going with that one :)
> >> >
> >> > >>>Secondly let me appologize for replying to you out of group if you
> >> don't
> >> > >>>care for that kind of thing.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> I think we're all in MFW at the moment. Are you having an
> > out-of-body
> >> > >> experience?
> >> > >
> >> > > Nope, just a reply when reply to author was meant moment. If I
wasn't
> > so
> >> > > damn thick skinned I would be red.
> >> > >
> >> > > Haven't had an out of body in ten years, but I have been
daydreaming
> >> about
> >> > > them lately.
> >> >
> >> > Ah, just checked email. Now I understand.
> >> > >
> >> > >>>I am about the same as you, build wise. I am between 6'2" and 6'3"
> >> > >>>depending on what time of the day I measure. Right now I sit at
> > 290lbs
> >> > >>>and 30% bodyfat. So that gives me a LBM of about 200lbs. I would
> > really
> >> > >>>love to get back down to where I was years ago before an injury
gave
> > me
> >> > >>>excuse to turn myself into a sloth. It sounds like Lyle's latest
> >> endeavor
> >> > >>>may be the way.
> >> > >> If you like eating lean protein and fibrous veges, for a few
> >> > >> months,
> >> it
> >> > >> sure can be.
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>Can you give a guy a link to where to pick it up? It is an e-book
> >> > >>>for
> >> > >>>about $20, no? Is it listed at the body recomp forums somewhere?
> >> > >> You can learn a lot of the basics on the bodyrecomp forum, but,
to
> > do
> >> it
> >> > >> right, the book is very useful. It's available at amazon.com,
search
> >> > >> under Lyle McDonald, the actual title is "The Rapid Fat Loss
> > Handbook".
> >> > >
> >> > > Is it available e-book? I am an impatient bugger and hate buying
> >> something
> >> > > and then waiting for it to be shipped.
> >> >
> >> > I don't know if it's available as an e-book. You can find that out on
> > the
> >> > bodyrecomp forum. Amazon can get it to you in a few days. But, it's a
> > REAL
> >> > good diet for the impatient, as you see results REAL damn fast.
'Cause
> >> it's
> >> > a modified fast. So it's fast. Modifiably so.
> >> >
> >> > You'll like it. Report back your results.
> >> >
> >> > David
> >> >
> >> Have you posted what your calorie deficit is during your weight loss?
> >>
> > Sorry - can you post your calorie consumption and your maintenance level
>
> Yeah, I understood the first question, ketosis hasn't wits my dulled.
>
> At a starting weight of 254 pounds, using the commonly cited 15
> calories/pound for maintenance for average exercise levels, I was at 3810
> calories/day. At 210, I'm down to 3150 calories/day.
>
> I am "supposed" to eat about 200 grams protein/day, but I rarely get
there.
> The amount of fibrous veges are unregulated, so, I don't know how many
> calories I'm getting there, but the volume isn't that great (I'm learning
to
> hate green peppers and cauliflower) and the calories are pretty small,
> regardless. So, calorie consumption is somewhere between 800 and 1000
> calories per day. (Before you say, "Woah, that's a tiny amount" keep in
mind
> this IS a short term fast.)
>
> Ergo, therefore, so, at long last, we arrive at a starting calorie deficit
> of 2810-3010 calories/day, and a current deficit of 2150-2350 calories/day

Holy ****! - this is amazing that you could sustain this for more than few
days

Lee Michaels
September 13th 05, 10:30 PM
"David Cohen" > wrote >>>
>
> Oh, yeah. I love it when the fat chicks at work ask me what I ate
> yesterday on my diet. Their jaws drop so far, the fried chicken falls out.
> Then they all want to know the details of the diet. I absolutely refuse to
> discuss it with them, as I know exactly how non-compliant they are, and
> then I'll be bitched at when they fail to lose weight.
>
My standard answer on that sort of thing is to tell them to buy the book.
And when they bitch that they don't want to buy a book, I tell them that if
they can't buy (and read) a book, why would anybody ever expect them to
actually follow the program?

That shuts them up pretty quick.

David
September 13th 05, 10:46 PM
"Lee Michaels" > wrote in message
...
>
> "David Cohen" > wrote >>>
> >
> > Oh, yeah. I love it when the fat chicks at work ask me what I ate
> > yesterday on my diet. Their jaws drop so far, the fried chicken falls
out.
> > Then they all want to know the details of the diet. I absolutely refuse
to
> > discuss it with them, as I know exactly how non-compliant they are, and
> > then I'll be bitched at when they fail to lose weight.
> >
> My standard answer on that sort of thing is to tell them to buy the book.
> And when they bitch that they don't want to buy a book, I tell them that
if
> they can't buy (and read) a book, why would anybody ever expect them to
> actually follow the program?
>
> That shuts them up pretty quick.
>
That's pretty good. You are the only person in this group who would have a
standard answer for a question that he has never been asked.
>

Hobbes
September 13th 05, 10:47 PM
In article >,
"David Cohen" > wrote:

> I'm dense and healthy

Well. Yeah. Exceptionally dense.

--
Keith

T
September 14th 05, 12:52 AM
>>>David, what are your plans long-term - what weight do you plan to
>>>stabilize at and how do you plan to eat and exercise to achieve that,
>>>this in comparison with both your pre-diet and current eating and
>>>exercise practices?
>>
>>I am planning on maintaining adequate lean protein intake, continue to
>>supplement EFAs, keeping the fibrous veges (with some goddamn butter
>>on them!), adding in some fruit, some whole grains, some starchy
>>carbs, and trying my best to minimize nutrient-sparse simple carbs and
>>non-EFA fats.
>
>
> Not trying to be PITA but that doesn't answer my question -

Answered three of them, actually.

>>>Are you concerned that losing as fast as you did, it will be hard to
>>>maintain in the long run?
>>
>>No. Maintenance should not be affected by rate of initial weight loss.
>
>
> There's a fair amount of stastical evidence that suggests otherwise,
> basically that the faster you lose it, the less likely you are to keep
> it off. I don't know why that is, though.

If you starve off muscle you're more likely to gain fat at any given caloric intake.

David Cohen
September 14th 05, 01:10 AM
"David" > wrote
> "David Cohen" > wrote
>> "David" > wrote
>> > "David" > wrote
>> >> "David Cohen" > wrote >> >
>> >> > "Ryan Case" > wrote
>> >> > > David Cohen wrote:
>> >> > >> "Ryan Case" > wrote
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>><snip hard to believe results>
>> >> > >>>
>> >> > >>>David,
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> Ryan,
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>>First off let me say WOW!.
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> If you were standing on your head, that would be MOM! Which would
> be
>> >> very
>> >> > >> inappropriate.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > In a bit of a mood today, are ya?
>> >> >
>> >> > If I were standing backwards, I'd be in a doom :(
>> >> >
>> >> > Upside down, I'd have wood. I'm going with that one :)
>> >> >
>> >> > >>>Secondly let me appologize for replying to you out of group if
>> >> > >>>you
>> >> don't
>> >> > >>>care for that kind of thing.
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> I think we're all in MFW at the moment. Are you having an
>> > out-of-body
>> >> > >> experience?
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Nope, just a reply when reply to author was meant moment. If I
> wasn't
>> > so
>> >> > > damn thick skinned I would be red.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Haven't had an out of body in ten years, but I have been
> daydreaming
>> >> about
>> >> > > them lately.
>> >> >
>> >> > Ah, just checked email. Now I understand.
>> >> > >
>> >> > >>>I am about the same as you, build wise. I am between 6'2" and
>> >> > >>>6'3"
>> >> > >>>depending on what time of the day I measure. Right now I sit at
>> > 290lbs
>> >> > >>>and 30% bodyfat. So that gives me a LBM of about 200lbs. I would
>> > really
>> >> > >>>love to get back down to where I was years ago before an injury
> gave
>> > me
>> >> > >>>excuse to turn myself into a sloth. It sounds like Lyle's latest
>> >> endeavor
>> >> > >>>may be the way.
>> >> > >> If you like eating lean protein and fibrous veges, for a few
>> >> > >> months,
>> >> it
>> >> > >> sure can be.
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>>Can you give a guy a link to where to pick it up? It is an e-book
>> >> > >>>for
>> >> > >>>about $20, no? Is it listed at the body recomp forums somewhere?
>> >> > >> You can learn a lot of the basics on the bodyrecomp forum, but,
> to
>> > do
>> >> it
>> >> > >> right, the book is very useful. It's available at amazon.com,
> search
>> >> > >> under Lyle McDonald, the actual title is "The Rapid Fat Loss
>> > Handbook".
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Is it available e-book? I am an impatient bugger and hate buying
>> >> something
>> >> > > and then waiting for it to be shipped.
>> >> >
>> >> > I don't know if it's available as an e-book. You can find that out
>> >> > on
>> > the
>> >> > bodyrecomp forum. Amazon can get it to you in a few days. But, it's
>> >> > a
>> > REAL
>> >> > good diet for the impatient, as you see results REAL damn fast.
> 'Cause
>> >> it's
>> >> > a modified fast. So it's fast. Modifiably so.
>> >> >
>> >> > You'll like it. Report back your results.
>> >> >
>> >> > David
>> >> >
>> >> Have you posted what your calorie deficit is during your weight loss?
>> >>
>> > Sorry - can you post your calorie consumption and your maintenance
>> > level
>>
>> Yeah, I understood the first question, ketosis hasn't wits my dulled.
>>
>> At a starting weight of 254 pounds, using the commonly cited 15
>> calories/pound for maintenance for average exercise levels, I was at 3810
>> calories/day. At 210, I'm down to 3150 calories/day.
>>
>> I am "supposed" to eat about 200 grams protein/day, but I rarely get
> there.
>> The amount of fibrous veges are unregulated, so, I don't know how many
>> calories I'm getting there, but the volume isn't that great (I'm learning
> to
>> hate green peppers and cauliflower) and the calories are pretty small,
>> regardless. So, calorie consumption is somewhere between 800 and 1000
>> calories per day. (Before you say, "Woah, that's a tiny amount" keep in
> mind
>> this IS a short term fast.)
>>
>> Ergo, therefore, so, at long last, we arrive at a starting calorie
>> deficit
>> of 2810-3010 calories/day, and a current deficit of 2150-2350
>> calories/day
>
> Holy ****! - this is amazing that you could sustain this for more than few
> days

For those for whom ketosis blunts appetite, it is an ideal short term diet.
Ketosis just kills my appetite.

Also, "free" meals and 5 hour carb ups are built into the diet, so, when the
urge to slurge hits, I either pig out on lean protein, which doesn't affect
the ketosis, or I have a free meal, or, if I really get the urge, I can do a
massive carb up pig out.

This diet has, frankly and amazingly, been easy.

D
a
v
i
d

David Cohen
September 14th 05, 01:12 AM
"Hobbes" > wrote
> "David Cohen" > wrote:
>
>> I'm dense and healthy
>
> Well. Yeah. Exceptionally dense.

Yeah, that's what the ultrasound tech said.

I wonder how he meant it?

David

David Cohen
September 14th 05, 01:17 AM
"T" > wrote
>>>>David, what are your plans long-term - what weight do you plan to
>>>>stabilize at and how do you plan to eat and exercise to achieve that,
>>>>this in comparison with both your pre-diet and current eating and
>>>>exercise practices?
>>>
>>>I am planning on maintaining adequate lean protein intake, continue to
>>>supplement EFAs, keeping the fibrous veges (with some goddamn butter on
>>>them!), adding in some fruit, some whole grains, some starchy carbs, and
>>>trying my best to minimize nutrient-sparse simple carbs and non-EFA fats.
>>
>>
>> Not trying to be PITA but that doesn't answer my question -
>
> Answered three of them, actually.
>
>>>>Are you concerned that losing as fast as you did, it will be hard to
>>>>maintain in the long run?
>>>
>>>No. Maintenance should not be affected by rate of initial weight loss.
>>
>>
>> There's a fair amount of stastical evidence that suggests otherwise,
>> basically that the faster you lose it, the less likely you are to keep it
>> off. I don't know why that is, though.
>
> If you starve off muscle you're more likely to gain fat at any given
> caloric intake.

Good point. As I've previously posted, this diet is designed to prevent, or
limit, muscle loss (hence the "protein sparing" in the name), and, so far,
has worked. Over 40 pounds lighter, I still caliper out at 175 pounds lean
body weight. Other types of rapid weight loss may not be as effective at
muscle sparing.

David

Larry Hodges
September 14th 05, 01:24 AM
David Cohen wrote:
> "T" > wrote
>>>>> David, what are your plans long-term - what weight do you plan to
>>>>> stabilize at and how do you plan to eat and exercise to achieve
>>>>> that, this in comparison with both your pre-diet and current
>>>>> eating and exercise practices?
>>>>
>>>> I am planning on maintaining adequate lean protein intake,
>>>> continue to supplement EFAs, keeping the fibrous veges (with some
>>>> goddamn butter on them!), adding in some fruit, some whole grains,
>>>> some starchy carbs, and trying my best to minimize nutrient-sparse
>>>> simple carbs and non-EFA fats.
>>>
>>>
>>> Not trying to be PITA but that doesn't answer my question -
>>
>> Answered three of them, actually.
>>
>>>>> Are you concerned that losing as fast as you did, it will be hard
>>>>> to maintain in the long run?
>>>>
>>>> No. Maintenance should not be affected by rate of initial weight
>>>> loss.
>>>
>>>
>>> There's a fair amount of stastical evidence that suggests otherwise,
>>> basically that the faster you lose it, the less likely you are to
>>> keep it off. I don't know why that is, though.
>>
>> If you starve off muscle you're more likely to gain fat at any given
>> caloric intake.
>
> Good point. As I've previously posted, this diet is designed to
> prevent, or limit, muscle loss (hence the "protein sparing" in the
> name), and, so far, has worked. Over 40 pounds lighter, I still
> caliper out at 175 pounds lean body weight. Other types of rapid
> weight loss may not be as effective at muscle sparing.
>
> David

Man, you were a fat *******. You must have looked like a weather balloon
with a head. :-P

Beleive it or not, I was at 260 four years ago. I'm 190 today. I was very
much a fat ******* myself...
--
-Larry

"The troll hasn't been born who can troll us worse than we troll
ourselves." Hugh Beyer

David
September 14th 05, 01:28 AM
"David Cohen" > wrote in message
k.net...
>
> "David" > wrote
> > "David Cohen" > wrote
> >> "David" > wrote
> >> > "David" > wrote
> >> >> "David Cohen" > wrote >> >
> >> >> > "Ryan Case" > wrote
> >> >> > > David Cohen wrote:
> >> >> > >> "Ryan Case" > wrote
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >>><snip hard to believe results>
> >> >> > >>>
> >> >> > >>>David,
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >> Ryan,
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >>>First off let me say WOW!.
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >> If you were standing on your head, that would be MOM! Which
would
> > be
> >> >> very
> >> >> > >> inappropriate.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > In a bit of a mood today, are ya?
> >> >> >
> >> >> > If I were standing backwards, I'd be in a doom :(
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Upside down, I'd have wood. I'm going with that one :)
> >> >> >
> >> >> > >>>Secondly let me appologize for replying to you out of group if
> >> >> > >>>you
> >> >> don't
> >> >> > >>>care for that kind of thing.
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >> I think we're all in MFW at the moment. Are you having an
> >> > out-of-body
> >> >> > >> experience?
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Nope, just a reply when reply to author was meant moment. If I
> > wasn't
> >> > so
> >> >> > > damn thick skinned I would be red.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Haven't had an out of body in ten years, but I have been
> > daydreaming
> >> >> about
> >> >> > > them lately.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Ah, just checked email. Now I understand.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >>>I am about the same as you, build wise. I am between 6'2" and
> >> >> > >>>6'3"
> >> >> > >>>depending on what time of the day I measure. Right now I sit at
> >> > 290lbs
> >> >> > >>>and 30% bodyfat. So that gives me a LBM of about 200lbs. I
would
> >> > really
> >> >> > >>>love to get back down to where I was years ago before an injury
> > gave
> >> > me
> >> >> > >>>excuse to turn myself into a sloth. It sounds like Lyle's
latest
> >> >> endeavor
> >> >> > >>>may be the way.
> >> >> > >> If you like eating lean protein and fibrous veges, for a few
> >> >> > >> months,
> >> >> it
> >> >> > >> sure can be.
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >>>Can you give a guy a link to where to pick it up? It is an
e-book
> >> >> > >>>for
> >> >> > >>>about $20, no? Is it listed at the body recomp forums
somewhere?
> >> >> > >> You can learn a lot of the basics on the bodyrecomp forum,
but,
> > to
> >> > do
> >> >> it
> >> >> > >> right, the book is very useful. It's available at amazon.com,
> > search
> >> >> > >> under Lyle McDonald, the actual title is "The Rapid Fat Loss
> >> > Handbook".
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Is it available e-book? I am an impatient bugger and hate buying
> >> >> something
> >> >> > > and then waiting for it to be shipped.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I don't know if it's available as an e-book. You can find that out
> >> >> > on
> >> > the
> >> >> > bodyrecomp forum. Amazon can get it to you in a few days. But,
it's
> >> >> > a
> >> > REAL
> >> >> > good diet for the impatient, as you see results REAL damn fast.
> > 'Cause
> >> >> it's
> >> >> > a modified fast. So it's fast. Modifiably so.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > You'll like it. Report back your results.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > David
> >> >> >
> >> >> Have you posted what your calorie deficit is during your weight
loss?
> >> >>
> >> > Sorry - can you post your calorie consumption and your maintenance
> >> > level
> >>
> >> Yeah, I understood the first question, ketosis hasn't wits my dulled.
> >>
> >> At a starting weight of 254 pounds, using the commonly cited 15
> >> calories/pound for maintenance for average exercise levels, I was at
3810
> >> calories/day. At 210, I'm down to 3150 calories/day.
> >>
> >> I am "supposed" to eat about 200 grams protein/day, but I rarely get
> > there.
> >> The amount of fibrous veges are unregulated, so, I don't know how many
> >> calories I'm getting there, but the volume isn't that great (I'm
learning
> > to
> >> hate green peppers and cauliflower) and the calories are pretty small,
> >> regardless. So, calorie consumption is somewhere between 800 and 1000
> >> calories per day. (Before you say, "Woah, that's a tiny amount" keep in
> > mind
> >> this IS a short term fast.)
> >>
> >> Ergo, therefore, so, at long last, we arrive at a starting calorie
> >> deficit
> >> of 2810-3010 calories/day, and a current deficit of 2150-2350
> >> calories/day
> >
> > Holy ****! - this is amazing that you could sustain this for more than
few
> > days
>
> For those for whom ketosis blunts appetite, it is an ideal short term
diet.
> Ketosis just kills my appetite.
>
> Also, "free" meals and 5 hour carb ups are built into the diet, so, when
the
> urge to slurge hits, I either pig out on lean protein, which doesn't
affect
> the ketosis, or I have a free meal, or, if I really get the urge, I can do
a
> massive carb up pig out.
>
> This diet has, frankly and amazingly, been easy.
>
> D
> a
> v
> i
> d
>
>
Sounds like a need to scare up some moulah to get this book

Steve Freides
September 14th 05, 02:22 AM
"David Cohen" > wrote in message
k.net...
>
> "T" > wrote
>>>>>David, what are your plans long-term - what weight do you plan to
>>>>>stabilize at and how do you plan to eat and exercise to achieve
>>>>>that, this in comparison with both your pre-diet and current eating
>>>>>and exercise practices?
>>>>
>>>>I am planning on maintaining adequate lean protein intake, continue
>>>>to supplement EFAs, keeping the fibrous veges (with some goddamn
>>>>butter on them!), adding in some fruit, some whole grains, some
>>>>starchy carbs, and trying my best to minimize nutrient-sparse simple
>>>>carbs and non-EFA fats.
>>>
>>>
>>> Not trying to be PITA but that doesn't answer my question -
>>
>> Answered three of them, actually.
>>
>>>>>Are you concerned that losing as fast as you did, it will be hard
>>>>>to maintain in the long run?
>>>>
>>>>No. Maintenance should not be affected by rate of initial weight
>>>>loss.
>>>
>>>
>>> There's a fair amount of stastical evidence that suggests otherwise,
>>> basically that the faster you lose it, the less likely you are to
>>> keep it off. I don't know why that is, though.
>>
>> If you starve off muscle you're more likely to gain fat at any given
>> caloric intake.
>
> Good point. As I've previously posted, this diet is designed to
> prevent, or limit, muscle loss (hence the "protein sparing" in the
> name), and, so far, has worked. Over 40 pounds lighter, I still
> caliper out at 175 pounds lean body weight. Other types of rapid
> weight loss may not be as effective at muscle sparing.

Any evidence to suggest how the approach you're taking works for people
with already low bodyfat, e.g., a BB cutting near a competition?

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com


> David
>
>
>

Steve Freides
September 14th 05, 02:30 AM
"David Cohen" > wrote in message
.net...
>
> "Steve Freides" > wrote
>> "David Cohen" > wrote
>>> "Steve Freides" > wrote
>>>> "David Cohen" > wrote
>>>>> <copied from his forum www.bodyrecomposition.com without
>>>>> permission, but I wrote it, so, screw 'em!>
>>>>>
>>>>> To recap, Part 1 recounted my one month drop from 250s/30% body
>>>>> fat to the 220s/20% BF. Part 2 described the extraordinary
>>>>> improvement in vital signs and blood lipid values.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's now been two months. I'm down to about 210 pounds and 17%
>>>>> body fat. The rate of weight loss has slowed, as expected, since
>>>>> my maintenance caloric requirement is much less at over 40 pounds
>>>>> lighter. To keep the same weight loss rate, I'd have to eat less
>>>>> or exercise more. Eating less would affect the protein sparing
>>>>> aspect of the Lyle McDonald Modified Protein Sparing Modified Fast
>>>>> (LMMPSMF). I don't have the time or desire to increase exercise
>>>>> right now.
>>>>>
>>>>> As a side note, I HIGHLY recommend mountain hiking on a diet. Las
>>>>> Vegas is at about 2000 feet elevation. The trails in the nearby
>>>>> mountains range from 9000-12000 feet. This high altitude hiking
>>>>> burns glycogen after a carb load FAST, and the improvement in
>>>>> cardiovascular conditioning has been remarkable. Peaks or
>>>>> destinations that used to take a full day slog, often failing to
>>>>> get there, now take 45 minutes or so. Just amazing :)
>>>>>
>>>>> As I understand it, the LMMPSMF has two goals: 1) lose a lot of
>>>>> fat fast while 2) maintaining muscle mass. My extremely accurate
>>>>> digital scale, and my fairly accurate calipers (I've been doing
>>>>> caliper measurements for many years, and my inexpensive Slim
>>>>> Guides have a reputation for accuracy), indicate that, so far,
>>>>> through my large loss of weight over two months, my lean body mass
>>>>> (LBM) has remained at about 175 pounds...no loss of muscle mass.
>>>>> So, the diet has met both goals.
>>>>>
>>>>> A word about 5 hour carb loads. I keep very close track of weight
>>>>> and body fat, and plot them on a graph. I have done carb loads
>>>>> only when the rate of weight loss begins to plateau. The first
>>>>> month I didn't do any. I've done three of them during the second
>>>>> month.
>>>>>
>>>>> The first was ineffective. Looking back, it's obvious that I was
>>>>> psychologically inhibited from eating enough. Didn't want to screw
>>>>> up the diet, even though I knew I wasn't going to. I gained only
>>>>> one pound the morning after the carb load. I'm 6'1" and lean at
>>>>> 200 pounds, so, I have a fairly above average amount of muscle
>>>>> mass, with corresponding glycogen storage capacity, so one pound
>>>>> gain was clearly not a full glycogen reload. And, as expected, my
>>>>> rate of weight loss did not improve.
>>>>>
>>>>> The second carb load included 15 Promax bars, a pound of cheese
>>>>> crackers, a half pound of cheese-covered popcorn, and 2 quarts of
>>>>> Gatorade. I gained 4 pounds the next morning, burnt it off in a
>>>>> day, and my rate of weight loss improved.
>>>>>
>>>>> This past weekend's 5 hour carb load included a large box of
>>>>> Captain Crunch, 2 large cans of fruit cocktail, 8 corn dogs, 2
>>>>> pounds of cheese crackers, 2 quarts of Gatorade, and whatever
>>>>> other food failed to find a safe hiding spot. I gained 11 pounds
>>>>> by the next morning, but was able to burn it off in 2 days, so, it
>>>>> was virtually all gylcogen and water. Now THAT is an effective
>>>>> carb up! And my rate of weight loss has improved, again. So, my
>>>>> advice for carb loads: EAT A LOT OF CARBS!! LOTS!!!
>>>>>
>>>>> Finally, though I, fairly, I believe, refer to it as the Lyle
>>>>> McDonald Modified PSMF, I include thanks to those who contributed
>>>>> to the concepts involved, in particular, Elzi Volk.
>>>>
>>>> David, what are your plans long-term - what weight do you plan to
>>>> stabilize at and how do you plan to eat and exercise to achieve
>>>> that, this in comparison with both your pre-diet and current eating
>>>> and exercise practices?
>>>
>>> I am planning on maintaining adequate lean protein intake, continue
>>> to supplement EFAs, keeping the fibrous veges (with some goddamn
>>> butter on them!), adding in some fruit, some whole grains, some
>>> starchy carbs, and trying my best to minimize nutrient-sparse simple
>>> carbs and non-EFA fats.
>>
>> Not trying to be PITA
>
> Try? I thought you had a natural ability there, Steve :)

According to those who know me, even though I engage in many areas of
endeavor in my life (computers, music, lifting to name only three and
there are more), being a pain in the ass is the thing at which I am most
talented, and by a wide margin as well. So - yes.

>> but that doesn't answer my question - are you planning on staying at
>> your current weight and body composition or simply returning to a
>> more normal diet and whatever happens, happens?
>
> Oh, damn, I actually forgot to answer that part. I would like to get
> to, and stay around, low double digit BF, which would be around 200
> pounds. I have been in single digits a couple times over the last
> twenty years, and found it to be too much work to maintain.

Are you testing bodyfat using your actual age or, as some suggest now,
just telling the equations and charts you've 20 years old?

>> Doing the things you list doesn't guarantee anything about your
>> weight going up, down, or staying the same, or your body composition,
>> for that matter. If I read your plan correctly, you'll be eating a
>> normal, healthy diet like at least some of the rest of us and
>> therefore subject to the great "calories in versus calories out"
>> scheme we all labor under - unless you've discovered some magic the
>> rest of us don't know about. :)
>
> Bulimia: it's what's for dinner.
>>
>>>> Are you concerned that losing as fast as you did, it will be hard
>>>> to maintain in the long run?
>>>
>>> No. Maintenance should not be affected by rate of initial weight
>>> loss.
>>
>> There's a fair amount of stastical evidence that suggests otherwise,
>> basically that the faster you lose it, the less likely you are to
>> keep it off. I don't know why that is, though.
>
> I suspect the main reason is psychological. Addictive
> personalities...and I suspect most fat folks are that way to some
> extent...have a very hard time losing weight and keeping it off. I
> love to eat, but have an extremely non-addictive personality, so, when
> I decide to diet, I can easily do it. Maybe I'll set an automatic
> trigger weight, and if I hit that weight, I start the diet again.
>
>>>> And why did you choose to drop the weight at this time?
>>>
>>> Turned 50 (the x0 birthdays often have profound effects), had crappy
>>> lipid profile, had lifestyle issues with moving my bulk around
>>> comfortably.
>>
>> Good on you for doing it, and welcome to the 50-something club. I
>> joined about half a year ago.
>
> Had your colonoscopy yet? I keep putting it off. I have no family
> history, and am very healthy...and whatever other rationalizations I
> need.

I had regular annual checkups around the time of my birthday - until the
last one. I'm doing my best to run the other way. :( I will get one
next year though.

> I did an interesting ultrasound screening process last week, as part
> of my get healthy/baseline testing/50-year-old thing. They did an
> ultrasound examination of my carotid arteries, thyroid, abdominal
> aorta, kidneys, liver, gallbladder, and wrist (for bone density). I'm
> dense and healthy, except an asysptomatic small gallstone.

Was this one of those "virtual physical" exams I see advertised lately?
They're often called "executive physicals" now, supposed non-invasive
but complete. Or something more conventional?

The only new-fangled test I've had done of late was actually about 5
years ago, when I had the "fast CT scan for coronary calcium" or
something like that done. 5 years ago I was almost the age my father
was when he had a heart attack, so I figured I'd ask the doctor for a
stress test, but he just laughed at me and told me I'd be long since
dead if I had anything wrong with me a stress test could show. He did
recommend the CT-scan-thing so I had it done and the results were
encouraging - a lower number is better and I got a zero, which meant
absolutely no buildup in my coronary arteries, at least none the test
could detect. I'm interested to have it done again because I was still
doing a lot of run/bike/swim and not too many weights then and my
training is pretty much the opposite now.

> And I'm not pregnant.

I'm sure your dog was relieved to hear that. :)

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com


> David
>

Seth Breidbart
September 14th 05, 03:25 AM
In article >, Dally > wrote:

>I laughed at your carb ups. That's all you could think of? No lush
>delicious chocolate cake? No ice cream sundaes? No big pile of
>steaming mashed potatoes?

Nah. There's only one food that ought to be used for a carb up.

Seth
--
"There is no such thing as an essential carbohydrate" -- Will Brink
Except sushi rice, seaweed, and wasabi.

Dally
September 14th 05, 03:33 AM
Steve Freides wrote:
> "David Cohen" > wrote in message
> .net...
>
>>Had your colonoscopy yet? I keep putting it off. I have no family
>>history, and am very healthy...and whatever other rationalizations I
>>need.
>
> I had regular annual checkups around the time of my birthday - until the
> last one. I'm doing my best to run the other way. :( I will get one
> next year though.

My husband is a member of your club and was signed up for this joyful
procedure. The day before the test happened to be really really hot and
he played Badminton (he's a serious badminton player) in a third floor
un-air-conditioned gym for over an hour. His clothes were sopping wet.
He was peeing crystals. He took a drink from the drinking fountain
but didn't have any water bottles or anything.

The next day he did the whole Fleet stuff - whooshing out any thing left
in the colon after a fast.

That night he came down with some huge frigging kidney stones. By the
time his procedure was scheduled to occur he was already IN the hospital
on good pain meds under the care of a urologist.

The damn proctologist wouldn't do the procedure because he was under the
urologist's care. He's fleeced out, he's miserable, he's in the
hospital - I tried to get them to do it while they had him there, but
the proctologist wouldn't. Asshole. Do you think my husband is EVER
going to go through this again?

The urologist says the kidney stones were caused by oxylates and he
should stop eating leafy greens, berries, nuts and a few other things
that might give him a happier ureter. I think the kidney stones were
caused by the severe dehydration (a fairly constant state with him this
summer) and they HAPPEN to be precipitates of oxylates because that's
what he happens to eat a lot of. If he ate a bunch of calcium I'd bet
that'd be what they were made of.

Anyway. Drink LOTS of water, guys. Not some namby-pamby sip at the
bubbler, but down a liter in a swig. Pretend you're chugging in
college. Bathe those organs in water. Thin out that blood. Plump out
your skin. Avoid kidney stones.

Because kidney stones suck. They suck so much worse than you think they
could suck. And weeks later, they're still sucking.

Dally

David Cohen
September 14th 05, 05:26 AM
"Steve Freides" > wrote
> "David Cohen" > wrote >>
>> "T" > wrote
>>>>>>David, what are your plans long-term - what weight do you plan to
>>>>>>stabilize at and how do you plan to eat and exercise to achieve that,
>>>>>>this in comparison with both your pre-diet and current eating and
>>>>>>exercise practices?
>>>>>
>>>>>I am planning on maintaining adequate lean protein intake, continue to
>>>>>supplement EFAs, keeping the fibrous veges (with some goddamn butter on
>>>>>them!), adding in some fruit, some whole grains, some starchy carbs,
>>>>>and trying my best to minimize nutrient-sparse simple carbs and non-EFA
>>>>>fats.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Not trying to be PITA but that doesn't answer my question -
>>>
>>> Answered three of them, actually.
>>>
>>>>>>Are you concerned that losing as fast as you did, it will be hard to
>>>>>>maintain in the long run?
>>>>>
>>>>>No. Maintenance should not be affected by rate of initial weight loss.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> There's a fair amount of stastical evidence that suggests otherwise,
>>>> basically that the faster you lose it, the less likely you are to keep
>>>> it off. I don't know why that is, though.
>>>
>>> If you starve off muscle you're more likely to gain fat at any given
>>> caloric intake.
>>
>> Good point. As I've previously posted, this diet is designed to prevent,
>> or limit, muscle loss (hence the "protein sparing" in the name), and, so
>> far, has worked. Over 40 pounds lighter, I still caliper out at 175
>> pounds lean body weight. Other types of rapid weight loss may not be as
>> effective at muscle sparing.
>
> Any evidence to suggest how the approach you're taking works for people
> with already low bodyfat, e.g., a BB cutting near a competition?

Such info available at Lyle's forum. If I remember correctly, the LMMPSMF
works better the fatter you are. There are better diets for low body fat
bodybuilders.

David

David Cohen
September 14th 05, 05:29 AM
"Steve Freides" > wrote
> "David Cohen" > wrote >>
>> "Steve Freides" > wrote
>>> "David Cohen" > wrote
>>>> "Steve Freides" > wrote
>>>>> "David Cohen" > wrote
>>>>>> <copied from his forum www.bodyrecomposition.com without permission,
>>>>>> but I wrote it, so, screw 'em!>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To recap, Part 1 recounted my one month drop from 250s/30% body fat
>>>>>> to the 220s/20% BF. Part 2 described the extraordinary improvement in
>>>>>> vital signs and blood lipid values.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's now been two months. I'm down to about 210 pounds and 17% body
>>>>>> fat. The rate of weight loss has slowed, as expected, since my
>>>>>> maintenance caloric requirement is much less at over 40 pounds
>>>>>> lighter. To keep the same weight loss rate, I'd have to eat less or
>>>>>> exercise more. Eating less would affect the protein sparing aspect of
>>>>>> the Lyle McDonald Modified Protein Sparing Modified Fast (LMMPSMF). I
>>>>>> don't have the time or desire to increase exercise right now.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As a side note, I HIGHLY recommend mountain hiking on a diet. Las
>>>>>> Vegas is at about 2000 feet elevation. The trails in the nearby
>>>>>> mountains range from 9000-12000 feet. This high altitude hiking burns
>>>>>> glycogen after a carb load FAST, and the improvement in
>>>>>> cardiovascular conditioning has been remarkable. Peaks or
>>>>>> destinations that used to take a full day slog, often failing to get
>>>>>> there, now take 45 minutes or so. Just amazing :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As I understand it, the LMMPSMF has two goals: 1) lose a lot of fat
>>>>>> fast while 2) maintaining muscle mass. My extremely accurate digital
>>>>>> scale, and my fairly accurate calipers (I've been doing caliper
>>>>>> measurements for many years, and my inexpensive Slim Guides have a
>>>>>> reputation for accuracy), indicate that, so far, through my large
>>>>>> loss of weight over two months, my lean body mass (LBM) has remained
>>>>>> at about 175 pounds...no loss of muscle mass. So, the diet has met
>>>>>> both goals.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A word about 5 hour carb loads. I keep very close track of weight and
>>>>>> body fat, and plot them on a graph. I have done carb loads only when
>>>>>> the rate of weight loss begins to plateau. The first month I didn't
>>>>>> do any. I've done three of them during the second month.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The first was ineffective. Looking back, it's obvious that I was
>>>>>> psychologically inhibited from eating enough. Didn't want to screw up
>>>>>> the diet, even though I knew I wasn't going to. I gained only one
>>>>>> pound the morning after the carb load. I'm 6'1" and lean at 200
>>>>>> pounds, so, I have a fairly above average amount of muscle mass, with
>>>>>> corresponding glycogen storage capacity, so one pound gain was
>>>>>> clearly not a full glycogen reload. And, as expected, my rate of
>>>>>> weight loss did not improve.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The second carb load included 15 Promax bars, a pound of cheese
>>>>>> crackers, a half pound of cheese-covered popcorn, and 2 quarts of
>>>>>> Gatorade. I gained 4 pounds the next morning, burnt it off in a day,
>>>>>> and my rate of weight loss improved.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This past weekend's 5 hour carb load included a large box of Captain
>>>>>> Crunch, 2 large cans of fruit cocktail, 8 corn dogs, 2 pounds of
>>>>>> cheese crackers, 2 quarts of Gatorade, and whatever other food failed
>>>>>> to find a safe hiding spot. I gained 11 pounds by the next morning,
>>>>>> but was able to burn it off in 2 days, so, it was virtually all
>>>>>> gylcogen and water. Now THAT is an effective carb up! And my rate of
>>>>>> weight loss has improved, again. So, my advice for carb loads: EAT A
>>>>>> LOT OF CARBS!! LOTS!!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Finally, though I, fairly, I believe, refer to it as the Lyle
>>>>>> McDonald Modified PSMF, I include thanks to those who contributed to
>>>>>> the concepts involved, in particular, Elzi Volk.
>>>>>
>>>>> David, what are your plans long-term - what weight do you plan to
>>>>> stabilize at and how do you plan to eat and exercise to achieve that,
>>>>> this in comparison with both your pre-diet and current eating and
>>>>> exercise practices?
>>>>
>>>> I am planning on maintaining adequate lean protein intake, continue to
>>>> supplement EFAs, keeping the fibrous veges (with some goddamn butter on
>>>> them!), adding in some fruit, some whole grains, some starchy carbs,
>>>> and trying my best to minimize nutrient-sparse simple carbs and non-EFA
>>>> fats.
>>>
>>> Not trying to be PITA
>>
>> Try? I thought you had a natural ability there, Steve :)
>
> According to those who know me, even though I engage in many areas of
> endeavor in my life (computers, music, lifting to name only three and
> there are more), being a pain in the ass is the thing at which I am most
> talented, and by a wide margin as well. So - yes.
>
>>> but that doesn't answer my question - are you planning on staying at
>>> your current weight and body composition or simply returning to a more
>>> normal diet and whatever happens, happens?
>>
>> Oh, damn, I actually forgot to answer that part. I would like to get to,
>> and stay around, low double digit BF, which would be around 200 pounds. I
>> have been in single digits a couple times over the last twenty years, and
>> found it to be too much work to maintain.
>
> Are you testing bodyfat using your actual age or, as some suggest now,
> just telling the equations and charts you've 20 years old?


I rarely lie to others. I never lie to myself.


>>> Doing the things you list doesn't guarantee anything about your weight
>>> going up, down, or staying the same, or your body composition, for that
>>> matter. If I read your plan correctly, you'll be eating a normal,
>>> healthy diet like at least some of the rest of us and therefore subject
>>> to the great "calories in versus calories out" scheme we all labor
>>> under - unless you've discovered some magic the rest of us don't know
>>> about. :)
>>
>> Bulimia: it's what's for dinner.
>>>
>>>>> Are you concerned that losing as fast as you did, it will be hard to
>>>>> maintain in the long run?
>>>>
>>>> No. Maintenance should not be affected by rate of initial weight loss.
>>>
>>> There's a fair amount of stastical evidence that suggests otherwise,
>>> basically that the faster you lose it, the less likely you are to keep
>>> it off. I don't know why that is, though.
>>
>> I suspect the main reason is psychological. Addictive personalities...and
>> I suspect most fat folks are that way to some extent...have a very hard
>> time losing weight and keeping it off. I love to eat, but have an
>> extremely non-addictive personality, so, when I decide to diet, I can
>> easily do it. Maybe I'll set an automatic trigger weight, and if I hit
>> that weight, I start the diet again.
>>
>>>>> And why did you choose to drop the weight at this time?
>>>>
>>>> Turned 50 (the x0 birthdays often have profound effects), had crappy
>>>> lipid profile, had lifestyle issues with moving my bulk around
>>>> comfortably.
>>>
>>> Good on you for doing it, and welcome to the 50-something club. I
>>> joined about half a year ago.
>>
>> Had your colonoscopy yet? I keep putting it off. I have no family
>> history, and am very healthy...and whatever other rationalizations I
>> need.
>
> I had regular annual checkups around the time of my birthday - until the
> last one. I'm doing my best to run the other way. :( I will get one next
> year though.
>
>> I did an interesting ultrasound screening process last week, as part of
>> my get healthy/baseline testing/50-year-old thing. They did an ultrasound
>> examination of my carotid arteries, thyroid, abdominal aorta, kidneys,
>> liver, gallbladder, and wrist (for bone density). I'm dense and healthy,
>> except an asysptomatic small gallstone.
>
> Was this one of those "virtual physical" exams I see advertised lately?
> They're often called "executive physicals" now, supposed non-invasive but
> complete. Or something more conventional?
>
> The only new-fangled test I've had done of late was actually about 5 years
> ago, when I had the "fast CT scan for coronary calcium" or something like
> that done. 5 years ago I was almost the age my father was when he had a
> heart attack, so I figured I'd ask the doctor for a stress test, but he
> just laughed at me and told me I'd be long since dead if I had anything
> wrong with me a stress test could show. He did recommend the
> CT-scan-thing so I had it done and the results were encouraging - a lower
> number is better and I got a zero, which meant absolutely no buildup in my
> coronary arteries, at least none the test could detect. I'm interested to
> have it done again because I was still doing a lot of run/bike/swim and
> not too many weights then and my training is pretty much the opposite now.
>
>> And I'm not pregnant.
>
> I'm sure your dog was relieved to hear that. :)


She likes babies.

With some fava beans and a nice chianti.

David

David Cohen
September 14th 05, 05:38 AM
"Steve Freides" > wrote
> "David Cohen" > wrote
>> I did an interesting ultrasound screening process last week, as part of
>> my get healthy/baseline testing/50-year-old thing. They did an ultrasound
>> examination of my carotid arteries, thyroid, abdominal aorta, kidneys,
>> liver, gallbladder, and wrist (for bone density). I'm dense and healthy,
>> except an asysptomatic small gallstone.
>
> Was this one of those "virtual physical" exams I see advertised lately?
> They're often called "executive physicals" now, supposed non-invasive but
> complete. Or something more conventional?

Just conventional ultrasound exams to detect problems before symptoms occur.
Insurance won't pay for preventative exams like this, usually, and doctors
won't order them until you have symptoms. So, some smart entrepreneurs set
up an office, hired some certified ultrasound techs, contracted with a
radiologist for interpretation, and charge a LOT less than even my insurance
co-pay would be. Win/win all around.
>
> The only new-fangled test I've had done of late was actually about 5 years
> ago, when I had the "fast CT scan for coronary calcium" or something like
> that done. 5 years ago I was almost the age my father was when he had a
> heart attack, so I figured I'd ask the doctor for a stress test, but he
> just laughed at me and told me I'd be long since dead if I had anything
> wrong with me a stress test could show. He did recommend the
> CT-scan-thing so I had it done and the results were encouraging - a lower
> number is better and I got a zero, which meant absolutely no buildup in my
> coronary arteries, at least none the test could detect. I'm interested to
> have it done again because I was still doing a lot of run/bike/swim and
> not too many weights then and my training is pretty much the opposite now.

That was a smart idea. If I had any family history of coronary artery
disease before age 70, I'd pay for one of those, too. A bit too expensive to
do just for the hell of it.

David

David Cohen
September 14th 05, 05:41 AM
"Seth Breidbart" > wrote
> David Cohen > wrote:
>>"Dally" > wrote
>
>>> A tuna omelette? Hmmm. Doesn't appeal to me. But I like lox and put
>>> it
>>> on things fairly often. A lox & onion & caper omelette would be good.
>>
>>Yes, that would work on this diet. I'll have to buy some lox. I'll miss
>>the
>>bagel and cream cheese, but, such is life on a LMMPSMF.
>
> You can have the bagel during a carb up.

Mmmmm, yum, good idea for next time. So far, John's candy orange slices,
Dally's mashed potatoes, and your bagels with lox and a schmeer.

Y'all come to Las Vegas, and I'll buy you dinner.

David

Lee Michaels
September 14th 05, 07:27 AM
"David Cohen" > wrote
>
> Just conventional ultrasound exams to detect problems before symptoms
> occur. Insurance won't pay for preventative exams like this, usually, and
> doctors won't order them until you have symptoms. So, some smart
> entrepreneurs set up an office, hired some certified ultrasound techs,
> contracted with a radiologist for interpretation, and charge a LOT less
> than even my insurance co-pay would be. Win/win all around.

Now that sounds like some smart niche marketing.

Is this exclusive to Las Vegas or is this sort of thing available elsewhere?

And it may be something that folks could get done when they come to Vegas
too. People go to other countries for cheaper procedures. Why not some
extra diagnostic stuff while enjoying sin city?

David Cohen
September 14th 05, 08:46 AM
"Lee Michaels" > wrote
> "David Cohen" > wrote
>>
>> Just conventional ultrasound exams to detect problems before symptoms
>> occur. Insurance won't pay for preventative exams like this, usually, and
>> doctors won't order them until you have symptoms. So, some smart
>> entrepreneurs set up an office, hired some certified ultrasound techs,
>> contracted with a radiologist for interpretation, and charge a LOT less
>> than even my insurance co-pay would be. Win/win all around.
>
> Now that sounds like some smart niche marketing.
>
> Is this exclusive to Las Vegas or is this sort of thing available
> elsewhere?

I'm sure it, or something similar, is available in various places.

> And it may be something that folks could get done when they come to Vegas
> too. People go to other countries for cheaper procedures. Why not some
> extra diagnostic stuff while enjoying sin city?

They could roll the ultrasound machine through the casino and avoid taking
people away from my kid's college fund contribution devices.

David

Steve Freides
September 14th 05, 01:16 PM
"David Cohen" > wrote

-snip-

>>> Oh, damn, I actually forgot to answer that part. I would like to get
>>> to, and stay around, low double digit BF, which would be around 200
>>> pounds. I have been in single digits a couple times over the last
>>> twenty years, and found it to be too much work to maintain.
>>
>> Are you testing bodyfat using your actual age or, as some suggest
>> now, just telling the equations and charts you've 20 years old?
>
>
> I rarely lie to others. I never lie to myself.

-snip-

Not suggesting lying - there was at least one thread here and some
articles elsewhere suggestng active people were likely to get more
accurate readings of bodyfat if they did _not_ put in their accurate age
since the charts assume age-related changes in body composition that
aren't, at least not firmly, supported by evidence that they take place
in lifters. If you haven't tried it already, put in all the same
numbers - the right ones for you - except tell it you're 20 instead of
50. You're "actual" bodyfat percentage will drop about 6 points in most
cases.

Alright, I'm suggesting lying, but for a good cause. :)

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

John Hanson
September 14th 05, 04:09 PM
On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 21:55:50 GMT, "David Cohen"
> wrote in misc.fitness.weights:

><copied from his forum www.bodyrecomposition.com without permission, but I
>wrote it, so, screw 'em!>
>
>To recap, Part 1 recounted my one month drop from 250s/30% body fat to the
>220s/20% BF. Part 2 described the extraordinary improvement in vital signs
>and blood lipid values.
>
>It's now been two months. I'm down to about 210 pounds and 17% body fat. The
>rate of weight loss has slowed, as expected, since my maintenance caloric
>requirement is much less at over 40 pounds lighter. To keep the same weight
>loss rate, I'd have to eat less or exercise more. Eating less would affect
>the protein sparing aspect of the Lyle McDonald Modified Protein Sparing
>Modified Fast (LMMPSMF). I don't have the time or desire to increase
>exercise right now.
>
Congratulations David! May I suggest you work on maintenance now and
stop dropping weight as it will probably cause a rebound if you try to
keep losing.

David Cohen
September 14th 05, 04:33 PM
"Steve Freides" > wrote
> "David Cohen" > wrote
>
> -snip-
>
>>>> Oh, damn, I actually forgot to answer that part. I would like to get
>>>> to, and stay around, low double digit BF, which would be around 200
>>>> pounds. I have been in single digits a couple times over the last
>>>> twenty years, and found it to be too much work to maintain.
>>>
>>> Are you testing bodyfat using your actual age or, as some suggest now,
>>> just telling the equations and charts you've 20 years old?
>>
>>
>> I rarely lie to others. I never lie to myself.
>
> -snip-
>
> Not suggesting lying - there was at least one thread here and some
> articles elsewhere suggestng active people were likely to get more
> accurate readings of bodyfat if they did _not_ put in their accurate age
> since the charts assume age-related changes in body composition that
> aren't, at least not firmly, supported by evidence that they take place in
> lifters. If you haven't tried it already, put in all the same numbers -
> the right ones for you - except tell it you're 20 instead of 50. You're
> "actual" bodyfat percentage will drop about 6 points in most cases.
>
> Alright, I'm suggesting lying, but for a good cause. :)

OK, I just dropped from about 17% to about 12%.

Of course, I look the same, I wear the same size pants, I have the same
amount of fat sitting in my male pattern deposition area.

In other words, as my philosophy of life has guided me in other areas,
reality just doesn't give a rat's ass what you call it. Let's say I have
a -4i % body fat.

I also don't set my alarm clock ahead 10 minutes to "fool' myself into
getting up. Self deception is a serious character flaw. I have enough of
those. I don't need that one.

David

David Cohen
September 14th 05, 04:37 PM
"John Hanson" > wrote
> "David Cohen" > wrote
>><copied from his forum www.bodyrecomposition.com without permission, but I
>>wrote it, so, screw 'em!>
>>
>>To recap, Part 1 recounted my one month drop from 250s/30% body fat to the
>>220s/20% BF. Part 2 described the extraordinary improvement in vital signs
>>and blood lipid values.
>>
>>It's now been two months. I'm down to about 210 pounds and 17% body fat.
>>The
>>rate of weight loss has slowed, as expected, since my maintenance caloric
>>requirement is much less at over 40 pounds lighter. To keep the same
>>weight
>>loss rate, I'd have to eat less or exercise more. Eating less would affect
>>the protein sparing aspect of the Lyle McDonald Modified Protein Sparing
>>Modified Fast (LMMPSMF). I don't have the time or desire to increase
>>exercise right now.
>>
> Congratulations David! May I suggest you work on maintenance now and
> stop dropping weight as it will probably cause a rebound if you try to
> keep losing.

Except for glycogen replenishment, there shouldn't be much of a rebound, as
my lean body mass has not dropped. Also, psychologically, I don't have an
urge to pig out, as this diet has been pretty easy, and occasional urges are
easily dealt with free meals and carb ups. So, hopefully, it won't be a
problem.

David

OmManiPadmeOmelet
September 14th 05, 04:49 PM
In article . net>,
"David Cohen" > wrote:

> "Steve Freides" > wrote
> > "David Cohen" > wrote >>
> >> "Steve Freides" > wrote
> >>> "David Cohen" > wrote
> >>>> "Steve Freides" > wrote
> >>>>> "David Cohen" > wrote
> >>>>>> <copied from his forum www.bodyrecomposition.com without permission,
> >>>>>> but I wrote it, so, screw 'em!>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> To recap, Part 1 recounted my one month drop from 250s/30% body fat
> >>>>>> to the 220s/20% BF. Part 2 described the extraordinary improvement in
> >>>>>> vital signs and blood lipid values.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> It's now been two months. I'm down to about 210 pounds and 17% body
> >>>>>> fat. The rate of weight loss has slowed, as expected, since my
> >>>>>> maintenance caloric requirement is much less at over 40 pounds
> >>>>>> lighter. To keep the same weight loss rate, I'd have to eat less or
> >>>>>> exercise more. Eating less would affect the protein sparing aspect of
> >>>>>> the Lyle McDonald Modified Protein Sparing Modified Fast (LMMPSMF). I
> >>>>>> don't have the time or desire to increase exercise right now.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> As a side note, I HIGHLY recommend mountain hiking on a diet. Las
> >>>>>> Vegas is at about 2000 feet elevation. The trails in the nearby
> >>>>>> mountains range from 9000-12000 feet. This high altitude hiking burns
> >>>>>> glycogen after a carb load FAST, and the improvement in
> >>>>>> cardiovascular conditioning has been remarkable. Peaks or
> >>>>>> destinations that used to take a full day slog, often failing to get
> >>>>>> there, now take 45 minutes or so. Just amazing :)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> As I understand it, the LMMPSMF has two goals: 1) lose a lot of fat
> >>>>>> fast while 2) maintaining muscle mass. My extremely accurate digital
> >>>>>> scale, and my fairly accurate calipers (I've been doing caliper
> >>>>>> measurements for many years, and my inexpensive Slim Guides have a
> >>>>>> reputation for accuracy), indicate that, so far, through my large
> >>>>>> loss of weight over two months, my lean body mass (LBM) has remained
> >>>>>> at about 175 pounds...no loss of muscle mass. So, the diet has met
> >>>>>> both goals.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> A word about 5 hour carb loads. I keep very close track of weight and
> >>>>>> body fat, and plot them on a graph. I have done carb loads only when
> >>>>>> the rate of weight loss begins to plateau. The first month I didn't
> >>>>>> do any. I've done three of them during the second month.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The first was ineffective. Looking back, it's obvious that I was
> >>>>>> psychologically inhibited from eating enough. Didn't want to screw up
> >>>>>> the diet, even though I knew I wasn't going to. I gained only one
> >>>>>> pound the morning after the carb load. I'm 6'1" and lean at 200
> >>>>>> pounds, so, I have a fairly above average amount of muscle mass, with
> >>>>>> corresponding glycogen storage capacity, so one pound gain was
> >>>>>> clearly not a full glycogen reload. And, as expected, my rate of
> >>>>>> weight loss did not improve.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The second carb load included 15 Promax bars, a pound of cheese
> >>>>>> crackers, a half pound of cheese-covered popcorn, and 2 quarts of
> >>>>>> Gatorade. I gained 4 pounds the next morning, burnt it off in a day,
> >>>>>> and my rate of weight loss improved.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> This past weekend's 5 hour carb load included a large box of Captain
> >>>>>> Crunch, 2 large cans of fruit cocktail, 8 corn dogs, 2 pounds of
> >>>>>> cheese crackers, 2 quarts of Gatorade, and whatever other food failed
> >>>>>> to find a safe hiding spot. I gained 11 pounds by the next morning,
> >>>>>> but was able to burn it off in 2 days, so, it was virtually all
> >>>>>> gylcogen and water. Now THAT is an effective carb up! And my rate of
> >>>>>> weight loss has improved, again. So, my advice for carb loads: EAT A
> >>>>>> LOT OF CARBS!! LOTS!!!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Finally, though I, fairly, I believe, refer to it as the Lyle
> >>>>>> McDonald Modified PSMF, I include thanks to those who contributed to
> >>>>>> the concepts involved, in particular, Elzi Volk.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> David, what are your plans long-term - what weight do you plan to
> >>>>> stabilize at and how do you plan to eat and exercise to achieve that,
> >>>>> this in comparison with both your pre-diet and current eating and
> >>>>> exercise practices?
> >>>>
> >>>> I am planning on maintaining adequate lean protein intake, continue to
> >>>> supplement EFAs, keeping the fibrous veges (with some goddamn butter on
> >>>> them!), adding in some fruit, some whole grains, some starchy carbs,
> >>>> and trying my best to minimize nutrient-sparse simple carbs and non-EFA
> >>>> fats.
> >>>
> >>> Not trying to be PITA
> >>
> >> Try? I thought you had a natural ability there, Steve :)
> >
> > According to those who know me, even though I engage in many areas of
> > endeavor in my life (computers, music, lifting to name only three and
> > there are more), being a pain in the ass is the thing at which I am most
> > talented, and by a wide margin as well. So - yes.
> >
> >>> but that doesn't answer my question - are you planning on staying at
> >>> your current weight and body composition or simply returning to a more
> >>> normal diet and whatever happens, happens?
> >>
> >> Oh, damn, I actually forgot to answer that part. I would like to get to,
> >> and stay around, low double digit BF, which would be around 200 pounds. I
> >> have been in single digits a couple times over the last twenty years, and
> >> found it to be too much work to maintain.
> >
> > Are you testing bodyfat using your actual age or, as some suggest now,
> > just telling the equations and charts you've 20 years old?
>
>
> I rarely lie to others. I never lie to myself.
>
>
> >>> Doing the things you list doesn't guarantee anything about your weight
> >>> going up, down, or staying the same, or your body composition, for that
> >>> matter. If I read your plan correctly, you'll be eating a normal,
> >>> healthy diet like at least some of the rest of us and therefore subject
> >>> to the great "calories in versus calories out" scheme we all labor
> >>> under - unless you've discovered some magic the rest of us don't know
> >>> about. :)
> >>
> >> Bulimia: it's what's for dinner.
> >>>
> >>>>> Are you concerned that losing as fast as you did, it will be hard to
> >>>>> maintain in the long run?
> >>>>
> >>>> No. Maintenance should not be affected by rate of initial weight loss.
> >>>
> >>> There's a fair amount of stastical evidence that suggests otherwise,
> >>> basically that the faster you lose it, the less likely you are to keep
> >>> it off. I don't know why that is, though.
> >>
> >> I suspect the main reason is psychological. Addictive personalities...and
> >> I suspect most fat folks are that way to some extent...have a very hard
> >> time losing weight and keeping it off. I love to eat, but have an
> >> extremely non-addictive personality, so, when I decide to diet, I can
> >> easily do it. Maybe I'll set an automatic trigger weight, and if I hit
> >> that weight, I start the diet again.
> >>
> >>>>> And why did you choose to drop the weight at this time?
> >>>>
> >>>> Turned 50 (the x0 birthdays often have profound effects), had crappy
> >>>> lipid profile, had lifestyle issues with moving my bulk around
> >>>> comfortably.
> >>>
> >>> Good on you for doing it, and welcome to the 50-something club. I
> >>> joined about half a year ago.
> >>
> >> Had your colonoscopy yet? I keep putting it off. I have no family
> >> history, and am very healthy...and whatever other rationalizations I
> >> need.
> >
> > I had regular annual checkups around the time of my birthday - until the
> > last one. I'm doing my best to run the other way. :( I will get one next
> > year though.
> >
> >> I did an interesting ultrasound screening process last week, as part of
> >> my get healthy/baseline testing/50-year-old thing. They did an ultrasound
> >> examination of my carotid arteries, thyroid, abdominal aorta, kidneys,
> >> liver, gallbladder, and wrist (for bone density). I'm dense and healthy,
> >> except an asysptomatic small gallstone.
> >
> > Was this one of those "virtual physical" exams I see advertised lately?
> > They're often called "executive physicals" now, supposed non-invasive but
> > complete. Or something more conventional?
> >
> > The only new-fangled test I've had done of late was actually about 5 years
> > ago, when I had the "fast CT scan for coronary calcium" or something like
> > that done. 5 years ago I was almost the age my father was when he had a
> > heart attack, so I figured I'd ask the doctor for a stress test, but he
> > just laughed at me and told me I'd be long since dead if I had anything
> > wrong with me a stress test could show. He did recommend the
> > CT-scan-thing so I had it done and the results were encouraging - a lower
> > number is better and I got a zero, which meant absolutely no buildup in my
> > coronary arteries, at least none the test could detect. I'm interested to
> > have it done again because I was still doing a lot of run/bike/swim and
> > not too many weights then and my training is pretty much the opposite now.
> >
> >> And I'm not pregnant.
> >
> > I'm sure your dog was relieved to hear that. :)
>
>
> She likes babies.
>
> With some fava beans and a nice chianti.
>
> David
>
>

"Silence of the Lambs".

Sick *******. ;-)
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

David Cohen
September 14th 05, 04:51 PM
"OmManiPadmeOmelet" > wrote
> "David Cohen" > wrote:
>> "Steve Freides" > wrote
>> > "David Cohen" > wrote >>
>> >
>> >> And I'm not pregnant.
>> >
>> > I'm sure your dog was relieved to hear that. :)
>>
>> She likes babies.
>>
>> With some fava beans and a nice chianti.
>
> "Silence of the Lambs".
>
> Sick *******. ;-)

I'm baaaaaddddd.

David

Dally
September 14th 05, 05:38 PM
David Cohen wrote:

> I also don't set my alarm clock ahead 10 minutes to "fool' myself into
> getting up. Self deception is a serious character flaw. I have enough of
> those. I don't need that one.

Don't be so hard on self-deception. I've found it to be a handy tool.
I'm not saying it would work for everyone, but I've been able to trick
myself into doing lots of things that I'm glad to have done. Of course,
I'm easily fooled. YMMV.

Dally

Seth Breidbart
September 15th 05, 02:50 AM
In article . net>,
David Cohen > wrote:
>"Steve Freides" > wrote

>> Any evidence to suggest how the approach you're taking works for people
>> with already low bodyfat, e.g., a BB cutting near a competition?
>
>Such info available at Lyle's forum. If I remember correctly, the LMMPSMF
>works better the fatter you are. There are better diets for low body fat
>bodybuilders.

UD 2.0 for instance.

Seth
--
Sometimes we have to forget studies and theories and just lift like a
****er! -- George UK

ATP*
September 15th 05, 03:29 AM
"David Cohen" > wrote in message
k.net...
>
> "Seth Breidbart" > wrote
>> David Cohen > wrote:
>>>"Dally" > wrote
>>
>>>> A tuna omelette? Hmmm. Doesn't appeal to me. But I like lox and put
>>>> it
>>>> on things fairly often. A lox & onion & caper omelette would be good.
>>>
>>>Yes, that would work on this diet. I'll have to buy some lox. I'll miss
>>>the
>>>bagel and cream cheese, but, such is life on a LMMPSMF.
>>
>> You can have the bagel during a carb up.
>
> Mmmmm, yum, good idea for next time. So far, John's candy orange slices,
> Dally's mashed potatoes, and your bagels with lox and a schmeer.
>
Make sure it's a kettle boiled bagel. Anything less is merely doughnut
shaped bread.

JMW
September 16th 05, 04:17 AM
Joe Humble > wrote:
>On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 21:55:50 GMT, "David Cohen"
> wrote:
>
>><copied from his forum www.bodyrecomposition.com without permission, but I
>>wrote it, so, screw 'em!>
>
>well you salvaged a tiny bit of self-respect back with that. talk of
>weight loss makes me want to climb a clock tower and start shooting.
>it all boils down to one simple thing, chew less.

That's easy for a natural stickboy to say.

The Bill Rodgers
September 16th 05, 04:23 AM
On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 23:17:31 -0400, JMW > wrote:

>That's easy for a natural stickboy to say.

He's a dickboy too? Man, what's this NG coming too?
TBR

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and
more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day
the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the
White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
"Anyone with degrees from Yale and Harvard is presumed to be intelligent,
but George W. Bush has managed to overcome that presumption."

JMW
September 16th 05, 06:54 AM
Joe Humble > wrote:

>On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 23:17:31 -0400, JMW > wrote:
>
>>Joe Humble > wrote:
>>>On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 21:55:50 GMT, "David Cohen"
> wrote:
>>>
>>>><copied from his forum www.bodyrecomposition.com without permission, but I
>>>>wrote it, so, screw 'em!>
>>>
>>>well you salvaged a tiny bit of self-respect back with that. talk of
>>>weight loss makes me want to climb a clock tower and start shooting.
>>>it all boils down to one simple thing, chew less.
>>
>>That's easy for a natural stickboy to say.
>
>losing weight requires the absence of doing something, gaining weight
>requires the presence of doing something. purely from a thermodynamic
>standpoint, losing weight is easier than gaining weight.

Right, Mike. Human behavior and individual physiology have nothing to
do with it.

You're such a ****** sometimes.

Charles
September 16th 05, 08:51 AM
On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 01:54:43 -0400, JMW > wrote:

>Joe Humble > wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 23:17:31 -0400, JMW > wrote:
>>
>>>Joe Humble > wrote:
>>>>On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 21:55:50 GMT, "David Cohen"
> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>><copied from his forum www.bodyrecomposition.com without permission, but I
>>>>>wrote it, so, screw 'em!>
>>>>
>>>>well you salvaged a tiny bit of self-respect back with that. talk of
>>>>weight loss makes me want to climb a clock tower and start shooting.
>>>>it all boils down to one simple thing, chew less.
>>>
>>>That's easy for a natural stickboy to say.
>>
>>losing weight requires the absence of doing something, gaining weight
>>requires the presence of doing something. purely from a thermodynamic
>>standpoint, losing weight is easier than gaining weight.
>
>Right, Mike. Human behavior and individual physiology have nothing to
>do with it.
>
>You're such a ****** sometimes.

This has become a gripping conversation.