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Wayne S. Hill
October 21st 03, 03:12 AM
I was away over the weekend and came home Sunday night. As we
drove through town, we noticed that the gym was strangely
dark, but didn't think much of it, since it was 5:00 and the
gym might close that early on Sundays, for all we knew.

Well, it turns out there's a sign on the door saying the gym
will be closed until further notice (which is pretty funny,
considering the lack of notice in the first place). It turns
out that (apparently) federal agents went in, ordered
everybody out (including people in the showers, for cryin' out
loud), changed the locks, and shut the place down.

I've heard a third-hand account of what was going on, but
don't know for sure. Aside from potentially lost membership
fees, this leaves me on the horns of a dilemma:

- There isn't another decent gym in the area (although there
are some real dogs). At my gym, there were plenty of bars,
lots of iron and racks, I could use chalk, do pretty much
anything I like, and get no hassles at all. The other gyms
are, well, not like that. For example, at the local Y (a
truly beautiful, brand-new facility), I could lift every plate
in the place at once, the DB's don't go above 55 lbs, and
there's no room to deadlift.

- The ceilings in my house aren't high enough to lift
overhead, and we really don't have much space, so setting up a
gym at home would not be easy. My main thought there would be
to set one up in my unheated garage, which is literally
freezing cold in the winter (and is already full of things
like kayaks and tools and, well, cars).

- My old gym might re-open (if the story I've heard is true,
and the closing had nothing to do with the gym per se). Thus,
I'm not about to join a lesser gym until I'm damned sure the
old one is a goner (and, if it is a goner, I'd sure like to
buy a pile of plates and weight trees and bars and stuff).

- I gotta do something SOON, because I've got a whole lot of
strength and weight to gain before the next highland games
season, and can't afford to sit around right now.

I guess I can get by with DB's for a couple of weeks, but
really need to come up with a plan, and soon.

--
-Wayne

Lee Michaels
October 21st 03, 04:39 AM
"Wayne S. Hill" > wrote in message
...
> I was away over the weekend and came home Sunday night. As we
> drove through town, we noticed that the gym was strangely
> dark, but didn't think much of it, since it was 5:00 and the
> gym might close that early on Sundays, for all we knew.
>
> Well, it turns out there's a sign on the door saying the gym
> will be closed until further notice (which is pretty funny,
> considering the lack of notice in the first place). It turns
> out that (apparently) federal agents went in, ordered
> everybody out (including people in the showers, for cryin' out
> loud), changed the locks, and shut the place down.
>
> I've heard a third-hand account of what was going on, but
> don't know for sure. Aside from potentially lost membership
> fees, this leaves me on the horns of a dilemma:
>
> - There isn't another decent gym in the area (although there
> are some real dogs). At my gym, there were plenty of bars,
> lots of iron and racks, I could use chalk, do pretty much
> anything I like, and get no hassles at all. The other gyms
> are, well, not like that. For example, at the local Y (a
> truly beautiful, brand-new facility), I could lift every plate
> in the place at once, the DB's don't go above 55 lbs, and
> there's no room to deadlift.
>
> - The ceilings in my house aren't high enough to lift
> overhead, and we really don't have much space, so setting up a
> gym at home would not be easy. My main thought there would be
> to set one up in my unheated garage, which is literally
> freezing cold in the winter (and is already full of things
> like kayaks and tools and, well, cars).
>
> - My old gym might re-open (if the story I've heard is true,
> and the closing had nothing to do with the gym per se). Thus,
> I'm not about to join a lesser gym until I'm damned sure the
> old one is a goner (and, if it is a goner, I'd sure like to
> buy a pile of plates and weight trees and bars and stuff).
>
> - I gotta do something SOON, because I've got a whole lot of
> strength and weight to gain before the next highland games
> season, and can't afford to sit around right now.
>
> I guess I can get by with DB's for a couple of weeks, but
> really need to come up with a plan, and soon.
>

As someone who has built gyms in every conceivable location, I can assure
that many have done well with much worse than your situation. If you decide
that you are going to do something, that is the first step. I can't really
speak to what hapened with yur gym. But if you are going to workout at home,
you better start planning.

General Suggestions:

1) Really prioritize storage. Can anything be stored outside? Under tarps?
In a detached storage shed? In a storeroom? At a friends house? Attic?

2) Throw some things away: You just may have accumulated more than you need
or can adequately use or store. You may need to lose a little flab in the
garage. This is one place where a crash diet is allowable and healthy
(though painful).

3) Lots of folks have trained outside. The oldtimers did it all the time.
The highland games are played outside. Not suggesting that you have to train
outdoors. Just remember, even an unheated garage is a luxury for many folks.

My first gym was an unheated shed that was 7 feet square. I built in power
racks into the shed itself. I often just pulled the weights out and worked
outside.

I builte a number of gyms in farm outbuildings. None were insulated. A
couple did not even have electricity. They guys worked out with a kerosene
lantern.

One guy just had a lean to roof. Kinda like a mini car port. Just a roof, no
walls. I was over there when he did a coupd workouts in the snow. It didn't
snow onto his gym. But a snow drift did sneak into one side. He had to dig
it out before he could use it.

Again, count your blessings. If you want to do it, you will.

4) Insulation: I have insulated a garage with a couple helpers in less than
a day. Insulation is cheap. Some staplers, a serrated edge knife, a step
ladder and rolls of insulation is all you need. Its been awhile but I
remesber doing a job for about $150 - $ 200.

We just put it up with the foil side in. We left it like that. It makes the
room brighter. I have put in both stoves and heaters into these rooms.

5) Specialized training gear-setup: Ok, this is something I don't know much
about. Highland games training is obviouslu spelized. Some of this will be
done indoors. Some of it will be done outdoors. Make a small shed or storage
facility to hold the outdoor items. This will free up the inside area for
more iron, etc.

The most important thing is to just do it. You won't regret it. Whatever
soap opera is playing out at the gym is no excuse to not follow through on
your plans or dreams.

Let us know how things turn out.

Lee Michaels

Jose Yimpho
October 21st 03, 04:46 AM
Lee Michaels wrote:

>
> "Wayne S. Hill" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I was away over the weekend and came home Sunday night. As we
>> drove through town, we noticed that the gym was strangely
>> dark, but didn't think much of it, since it was 5:00 and the
>> gym might close that early on Sundays, for all we knew.
>>
>> Well, it turns out there's a sign on the door saying the gym
>> will be closed until further notice (which is pretty funny,
>> considering the lack of notice in the first place). It turns
>> out that (apparently) federal agents went in, ordered
>> everybody out (including people in the showers, for cryin' out
>> loud), changed the locks, and shut the place down.
>>
>> I've heard a third-hand account of what was going on, but
>> don't know for sure. Aside from potentially lost membership
>> fees, this leaves me on the horns of a dilemma:
>>
>> - There isn't another decent gym in the area (although there
>> are some real dogs). At my gym, there were plenty of bars,
>> lots of iron and racks, I could use chalk, do pretty much
>> anything I like, and get no hassles at all. The other gyms
>> are, well, not like that. For example, at the local Y (a
>> truly beautiful, brand-new facility), I could lift every plate
>> in the place at once, the DB's don't go above 55 lbs, and
>> there's no room to deadlift.
>>
>> - The ceilings in my house aren't high enough to lift
>> overhead, and we really don't have much space, so setting up a
>> gym at home would not be easy. My main thought there would be
>> to set one up in my unheated garage, which is literally
>> freezing cold in the winter (and is already full of things
>> like kayaks and tools and, well, cars).
>>
>> - My old gym might re-open (if the story I've heard is true,
>> and the closing had nothing to do with the gym per se). Thus,
>> I'm not about to join a lesser gym until I'm damned sure the
>> old one is a goner (and, if it is a goner, I'd sure like to
>> buy a pile of plates and weight trees and bars and stuff).
>>
>> - I gotta do something SOON, because I've got a whole lot of
>> strength and weight to gain before the next highland games
>> season, and can't afford to sit around right now.
>>
>> I guess I can get by with DB's for a couple of weeks, but
>> really need to come up with a plan, and soon.
>>
>
> As someone who has built gyms in every conceivable location, I can assure
> that many have done well with much worse than your situation. If you
> decide
> that you are going to do something, that is the first step. I can't
> really speak to what hapened with yur gym. But if you are going to workout
> at home, you better start planning.
>
> General Suggestions:
>
> 1) Really prioritize storage. Can anything be stored outside? Under tarps?
> In a detached storage shed? In a storeroom? At a friends house? Attic?
>
> 2) Throw some things away: You just may have accumulated more than you
> need or can adequately use or store. You may need to lose a little flab in
> the garage. This is one place where a crash diet is allowable and healthy
> (though painful).
>
> 3) Lots of folks have trained outside. The oldtimers did it all the time.
> The highland games are played outside. Not suggesting that you have to
> train outdoors. Just remember, even an unheated garage is a luxury for
> many folks.
>
> My first gym was an unheated shed that was 7 feet square. I built in power
> racks into the shed itself. I often just pulled the weights out and worked
> outside.
>
> I builte a number of gyms in farm outbuildings. None were insulated. A
> couple did not even have electricity. They guys worked out with a kerosene
> lantern.
>
> One guy just had a lean to roof. Kinda like a mini car port. Just a roof,
> no walls. I was over there when he did a coupd workouts in the snow. It
> didn't snow onto his gym. But a snow drift did sneak into one side. He had
> to dig it out before he could use it.
>
> Again, count your blessings. If you want to do it, you will.
>
> 4) Insulation: I have insulated a garage with a couple helpers in less
> than a day. Insulation is cheap. Some staplers, a serrated edge knife, a
> step ladder and rolls of insulation is all you need. Its been awhile but I
> remesber doing a job for about $150 - $ 200.
>
> We just put it up with the foil side in. We left it like that. It makes
> the room brighter. I have put in both stoves and heaters into these rooms.
>
> 5) Specialized training gear-setup: Ok, this is something I don't know
> much about. Highland games training is obviouslu spelized. Some of this
> will be done indoors. Some of it will be done outdoors. Make a small shed
> or storage facility to hold the outdoor items. This will free up the
> inside area for more iron, etc.
>
> The most important thing is to just do it. You won't regret it. Whatever
> soap opera is playing out at the gym is no excuse to not follow through on
> your plans or dreams.
>
> Let us know how things turn out.
>
> Lee Michaels

Yeah, back in those days, me and pops used to go out into the fields and
squat pig. These new-fangled weights just aren't the same, I tell you.

Lee Michaels
October 21st 03, 04:53 AM
"Jose Yimpho" wrote
>
> Yeah, back in those days, me and pops used to go out into the fields and
> squat pig. These new-fangled weights just aren't the same, I tell you.

You are obviously not a farmboy. You don't put pigs into fields. Not if you
ever want to see them again.

Unless, of course, you had an unusal relationship with them.

Jose Yimpho
October 21st 03, 05:12 AM
Lee Michaels wrote:

>
> "Jose Yimpho" wrote
>>
>> Yeah, back in those days, me and pops used to go out into the fields and
>> squat pig. These new-fangled weights just aren't the same, I tell you.
>
> You are obviously not a farmboy. You don't put pigs into fields. Not if
> you ever want to see them again.
>
> Unless, of course, you had an unusal relationship with them.

Hey, don't go insulting my pop.

Wayne S. Hill
October 21st 03, 02:08 PM
Lee Michaels wrote:

> As someone who has built gyms in every conceivable location,
> I can assure that many have done well with much worse than
> your situation. If you decide that you are going to do
> something, that is the first step. I can't really speak to
> what hapened with yur gym. But if you are going to workout
> at home, you better start planning.

Check.

> General Suggestions:
>
> 1) Really prioritize storage. Can anything be stored
> outside? Under tarps? In a detached storage shed? In a
> storeroom? At a friends house? Attic?

Heh. This is a long-standing problem. Our problem is having 10
lbs of stuff and a 5-lb house. Our garage is actually enormous
by most people's standards, but has a whole lot of stuff very
neatly stored therein. We also have a good-sized shed, which is
full, heated crawl spaces, which are full, and a full basement.

> 2) Throw some things away: You just may have accumulated
> more than you need or can adequately use or store. You may
> need to lose a little flab in the garage. This is one place
> where a crash diet is allowable and healthy (though
> painful).

My main option is reorganization.

> 3) Lots of folks have trained outside. The oldtimers did it
> all the time. The highland games are played outside. Not
> suggesting that you have to train outdoors. Just remember,
> even an unheated garage is a luxury for many folks.

Why, when I was a kid...

> Again, count your blessings. If you want to do it, you will.

Oh, I gotta do it (unless the gym opens again...).

> 4) Insulation: I have insulated a garage with a couple
> helpers in less than a day. Insulation is cheap. Some
> staplers, a serrated edge knife, a step ladder and rolls of
> insulation is all you need. Its been awhile but I remesber
> doing a job for about $150 - $ 200.

I would do that in a heartbeat if it were that straightforward.
The problem is that the garage is under part of the house, so
it's already sheet-rocked, but not insulated. There's also a
lot of stuff mounted to the walls, so fixing this would be a big
job. Hmm, maybe we could use blown insulation...

> I have put in both stoves and heaters into these rooms.

These are the lines I'm thinking along right now, basically a
heater I would turn on when I get home from work that takes the
bite out of the air and lets me work out. I'm not sure what
kind of heater to use: there's no floor space for a wood stove,
so it would either be a salamander (probably illegal), an
unvented gas heater (also possibly illegal), or installing a
vented gas heater.

> 5) Specialized training gear-setup: Ok, this is something I
> don't know much about. Highland games training is obviouslu
> spelized. Some of this will be done indoors. Some of it will
> be done outdoors. Make a small shed or storage facility to
> hold the outdoor items. This will free up the inside area
> for more iron, etc.

Winter training for HG is pretty conventional (powerlifting for
GPP, Oly for SPP, event training and maintenance lifting during
the very long competition season). Thus, my first priority is
to make a setup that allows me to do squats, deads, bench,
inclines, etc. I don't see having enough room to do Oly lifts
in the space available, so I may have to go with something
unconventional instead (I have an idea here...).

> The most important thing is to just do it. You won't regret
> it. Whatever soap opera is playing out at the gym is no
> excuse to not follow through on your plans or dreams.

Yeah, the problem is that the situation could be reversed in an
instant with the reopening of the gym. I'd rather know that it
wasn't going to open and get down to work, or that it was going
to open and avoid a lot of trouble and expense.

--
-Wayne

Lee Michaels
October 21st 03, 02:53 PM
"Wayne S. Hill" > wrote in message
...
> Lee Michaels wrote:
>
> > As someone who has built gyms in every conceivable location,
> > I can assure that many have done well with much worse than
> > your situation. If you decide that you are going to do
> > something, that is the first step. I can't really speak to
> > what hapened with yur gym. But if you are going to workout
> > at home, you better start planning.
>
> Check.
>
> > General Suggestions:
> >
> > 1) Really prioritize storage. Can anything be stored
> > outside? Under tarps? In a detached storage shed? In a
> > storeroom? At a friends house? Attic?
>
> Heh. This is a long-standing problem. Our problem is having 10
> lbs of stuff and a 5-lb house. Our garage is actually enormous
> by most people's standards, but has a whole lot of stuff very
> neatly stored therein. We also have a good-sized shed, which is
> full, heated crawl spaces, which are full, and a full basement.
>
> > 2) Throw some things away: You just may have accumulated
> > more than you need or can adequately use or store. You may
> > need to lose a little flab in the garage. This is one place
> > where a crash diet is allowable and healthy (though
> > painful).
>
> My main option is reorganization.
>
> > 3) Lots of folks have trained outside. The oldtimers did it
> > all the time. The highland games are played outside. Not
> > suggesting that you have to train outdoors. Just remember,
> > even an unheated garage is a luxury for many folks.
>
> Why, when I was a kid...
>
> > Again, count your blessings. If you want to do it, you will.
>
> Oh, I gotta do it (unless the gym opens again...).
>
> > 4) Insulation: I have insulated a garage with a couple
> > helpers in less than a day. Insulation is cheap. Some
> > staplers, a serrated edge knife, a step ladder and rolls of
> > insulation is all you need. Its been awhile but I remesber
> > doing a job for about $150 - $ 200.
>
> I would do that in a heartbeat if it were that straightforward.
> The problem is that the garage is under part of the house, so
> it's already sheet-rocked, but not insulated. There's also a
> lot of stuff mounted to the walls, so fixing this would be a big
> job. Hmm, maybe we could use blown insulation...
>

You can rent equipment to do the blown insultion thing.


> > I have put in both stoves and heaters into these rooms.
>
> These are the lines I'm thinking along right now, basically a
> heater I would turn on when I get home from work that takes the
> bite out of the air and lets me work out. I'm not sure what
> kind of heater to use: there's no floor space for a wood stove,
> so it would either be a salamander (probably illegal), an
> unvented gas heater (also possibly illegal), or installing a
> vented gas heater.
>

I have heard good things about vented gas infa red heaters. Big heat
production with minimal gas consumption.


> > 5) Specialized training gear-setup: Ok, this is something I
> > don't know much about. Highland games training is obviouslu
> > spelized. Some of this will be done indoors. Some of it will
> > be done outdoors. Make a small shed or storage facility to
> > hold the outdoor items. This will free up the inside area
> > for more iron, etc.
>
> Winter training for HG is pretty conventional (powerlifting for
> GPP, Oly for SPP, event training and maintenance lifting during
> the very long competition season). Thus, my first priority is
> to make a setup that allows me to do squats, deads, bench,
> inclines, etc. I don't see having enough room to do Oly lifts
> in the space available, so I may have to go with something
> unconventional instead (I have an idea here...).
>
> > The most important thing is to just do it. You won't regret
> > it. Whatever soap opera is playing out at the gym is no
> > excuse to not follow through on your plans or dreams.
>
> Yeah, the problem is that the situation could be reversed in an
> instant with the reopening of the gym. I'd rather know that it
> wasn't going to open and get down to work, or that it was going
> to open and avoid a lot of trouble and expense.
>
> --
> -Wayne

Keith Hobman
October 21st 03, 03:06 PM
In article >, "Lee
Michaels" > wrote:

> "Jose Yimpho" wrote
> >
> > Yeah, back in those days, me and pops used to go out into the fields and
> > squat pig. These new-fangled weights just aren't the same, I tell you.
>
> You are obviously not a farmboy. You don't put pigs into fields. Not if you
> ever want to see them again.
>
> Unless, of course, you had an unusal relationship with them.

Pigs have been known to run hog-wild in that situation.

And seriously, you don't want pigs loose around the farm. They can be a
dangerous animal and they are very smart.

--
Keith Hobman

--- email address above is a non-monitored spam sink.

Wayne S. Hill
October 21st 03, 03:13 PM
Lee Michaels wrote:

> You can rent equipment to do the blown insultion thing.

Ed Zackly. And I have a friend with a trailer that could haul the
beast around. I looked into this once for another project.

> I have heard good things about vented gas infa red heaters.
> Big heat production with minimal gas consumption.

Yeah, this is a possibility. I'll look into it. I have about a
month to go before the garage is just too damned cold.

--
-Wayne

Hoff
October 21st 03, 03:15 PM
"Wayne S. Hill" > wrote in message
...
<snippage>
> These are the lines I'm thinking along right now, basically a
> heater I would turn on when I get home from work that takes the
> bite out of the air and lets me work out. I'm not sure what
> kind of heater to use: there's no floor space for a wood stove,
> so it would either be a salamander (probably illegal), an
> unvented gas heater (also possibly illegal), or installing a
> vented gas heater.
>

FWIW, I just use a couple of electric space heaters. Granted, if I remember
right you're a little farther north. But as long as I remember to run them
for an hour before I workout, they do OK.

Oh, and I also forget from time to time to turn them off before I start the
treadmill. Trips the breaker every time ;)

Hoff
--
Learn it. Know it. Live it.

http://home.comcast.net/~mfw/
(Unofficial FAQ Addendum)

Wayne S. Hill
October 21st 03, 03:25 PM
Hoff wrote:

> FWIW, I just use a couple of electric space heaters.
> Granted, if I remember right you're a little farther north.
> But as long as I remember to run them for an hour before I
> workout, they do OK.

Yeah, I wonder how much heat I really need. The garage is truly
big (like 24 x 26 x 12), so heating the whole thing from a cold
condition would be pretty hard, but heating an area to an
acceptable level might not be so bad.

--
-Wayne

Lee Michaels
October 21st 03, 03:30 PM
"Wayne S. Hill" > wrote in message
...
> Lee Michaels wrote:
>
> > You can rent equipment to do the blown insultion thing.
>
> Ed Zackly. And I have a friend with a trailer that could haul the
> beast around. I looked into this once for another project.
>
> > I have heard good things about vented gas infa red heaters.
> > Big heat production with minimal gas consumption.
>
> Yeah, this is a possibility. I'll look into it. I have about a
> month to go before the garage is just too damned cold.
>
Just have to mention this when talking about heated garages. Ya know the
show, The New Yankee Workshop with Norm Abrams? It is in New England with
all the snow and cold. You know how come he is always working in his flannel
shirt in the middle of the winter?

That big garage he is in is super insulated with a radiant heat floor.
That's right folks, Norm works on top of a giant radiator all day. He has no
problem staying warm!

That may be a little overkill for you though.

Geezer From The Freezer
October 21st 03, 03:31 PM
Keith Hobman wrote:
..
>
> And seriously, you don't want pigs loose around the farm. They can be a
> dangerous animal and they are very smart.

Not as smart as Humans......can't wait for my bacon sarnie when
I get home ;)

Lee Michaels
October 21st 03, 03:35 PM
"Wayne S. Hill" > wrote in message
...
> Hoff wrote:
>
> > FWIW, I just use a couple of electric space heaters.
> > Granted, if I remember right you're a little farther north.
> > But as long as I remember to run them for an hour before I
> > workout, they do OK.
>
> Yeah, I wonder how much heat I really need. The garage is truly
> big (like 24 x 26 x 12), so heating the whole thing from a cold
> condition would be pretty hard, but heating an area to an
> acceptable level might not be so bad.
>

That is where the infra-red heaters excel.

Keith Hobman
October 21st 03, 03:43 PM
In article >, Geezer From The Freezer
> wrote:

> Keith Hobman wrote:
> .
> >
> > And seriously, you don't want pigs loose around the farm. They can be a
> > dangerous animal and they are very smart.
>
> Not as smart as Humans......can't wait for my bacon sarnie when
> I get home ;)

Depends on the human, right?

I mean, you've read the post by that cat lady...

--
Keith Hobman

--- email address above is a non-monitored spam sink.

Geezer From The Freezer
October 21st 03, 04:09 PM
Keith Hobman wrote:
>
> In article >, Geezer From The Freezer
> > wrote:
>
> > Keith Hobman wrote:
> > .
> > >
> > > And seriously, you don't want pigs loose around the farm. They can be a
> > > dangerous animal and they are very smart.
> >
> > Not as smart as Humans......can't wait for my bacon sarnie when
> > I get home ;)
>
> Depends on the human, right?

True!

Lee Michaels
October 21st 03, 04:17 PM
"Keith Hobman" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, "Lee
> Michaels" > wrote:
>
> > "Jose Yimpho" wrote
> > >
> > > Yeah, back in those days, me and pops used to go out into the fields
and
> > > squat pig. These new-fangled weights just aren't the same, I tell
you.
> >
> > You are obviously not a farmboy. You don't put pigs into fields. Not if
you
> > ever want to see them again.
> >
> > Unless, of course, you had an unusal relationship with them.
>
> Pigs have been known to run hog-wild in that situation.
>
> And seriously, you don't want pigs loose around the farm. They can be a
> dangerous animal and they are very smart.
>

In just a few generations, domesticated pigs will assume all their wild
tendancies back again. They can be very agressive and destroy sensitive
forest areas with their agressive rooting practices. They can eat almost
anything and destroy many plants.

I understand that is what happened in Hawaii. The pigs got loose and now
they are aggressively hunted. And they still cause a lot of damage to the
ecosystem. And they have been know to attack humans as well.

They are strong and fast. And it takes a fairly large bullet to stop them. I
have a friend of mine who goes boar hunting in Hawaii every year.

DJ Delorie
October 21st 03, 05:05 PM
"Lee Michaels" > writes:
> Just have to mention this when talking about heated garages. Ya know the
> show, The New Yankee Workshop with Norm Abrams? It is in New England with
> all the snow and cold. You know how come he is always working in his flannel
> shirt in the middle of the winter?

Because he's a wimp. The rule of thumb up here is... it's cold, get
used to it. I was outside working on my shed the other day in a
t-shirt and it was 45 degrees out. I had a jacket on when I started,
but I was sweating too much. My kids were running around in shorts.

It's also why we wait until late fall to cut firewood. Until then,
it's just too damn hot.

I'm not sure I even *own* a long sleeved shirt.

As for heating garages, mine is set up for a propane Modine
direct-vent heater. It's been four years and I haven't even started
looking for one yet.

Jim Ranieri
October 21st 03, 06:49 PM
"Wayne S. Hill" > wrote in message

> Well, it turns out there's a sign on the door saying the gym
> will be closed until further notice (which is pretty funny,
> considering the lack of notice in the first place). It turns
> out that (apparently) federal agents went in, ordered
> everybody out (including people in the showers, for cryin' out
> loud), changed the locks, and shut the place down.
>
> I've heard a third-hand account of what was going on, but
> don't know for sure. Aside from potentially lost membership
> fees, this leaves me on the horns of a dilemma:
>

Ugh, bad new when the federales come to call. Taxes? Or none of my damn
business? Anyway, I feel your pain. With a house that already has too many
toys (ditto on the kayaks in the garage), you hate like hell to introduce
any new stuff. Here's a thought, maybe completely off the wall, but if
there are dozen or so other lifters from your gym that are on the horns of
the same dilemma - how about checking into renting a small outbuilding /
shop and co-op the equipment purchases. Who knows, maybe your former gym
owner is a motivated seller at this point.

Jim

Spammers_Should_Be_Shot
October 21st 03, 07:00 PM
"Wayne S. Hill" > wrote in message
...
> Lee Michaels wrote:

<<snipped>>

> > 4) Insulation: I have insulated a garage with a couple
> > helpers in less than a day. Insulation is cheap. Some
> > staplers, a serrated edge knife, a step ladder and rolls of
> > insulation is all you need. Its been awhile but I remesber
> > doing a job for about $150 - $ 200.
>
> I would do that in a heartbeat if it were that straightforward.
> The problem is that the garage is under part of the house, so
> it's already sheet-rocked, but not insulated. There's also a
> lot of stuff mounted to the walls, so fixing this would be a big
> job. Hmm, maybe we could use blown insulation...

If the garage is under part of the house than that part is already insulated
(well, by current codes, depending upon when it was built, I guess it's
possible yours isn't). Typically a house is insulated between any heated
space and any unheated space (not just outside air). So when building an
addition over an unheated garage the new additions floor (i.e. garage's new
ceiling) would be insulated.


> > I have put in both stoves and heaters into these rooms.
>
> These are the lines I'm thinking along right now, basically a
> heater I would turn on when I get home from work that takes the
> bite out of the air and lets me work out. I'm not sure what
> kind of heater to use: there's no floor space for a wood stove,
> so it would either be a salamander (probably illegal), an
> unvented gas heater (also possibly illegal), or installing a
> vented gas heater.

Look into a ventless gas heater (sometimes called a "garage heater"). They
hook up to a gas line but require no venting. They run about $150 for a
unit for a 2-car garage (3-car versions costs ~$200). They can be hooked up
to a timer (so that they turn on/off at certain times of day) or some have
thermostats built-in (so that they turn on/off as required to keep the space
at a constant temperture). The one thing to consider with heating the
garage is that since it's uninsulated you're going to have a pretty high
heat loss. I recommend insulating the ceiling (even if you just use a
couple layers of 1-1/2" rigid insulation attached to the existing gypsum
board ceiling) and minimizng drafts. I don't know if your garage door is
insulated or not but I wouldn't worry too much about it and the garage
walls. You'll get the most "bang-for-your-buck" just eliminating air leaks
(i.e. around doors/windows) and insulating the ceiling.


HTH,

Michael

Spammers_Should_Be_Shot
October 21st 03, 07:25 PM
"Wayne S. Hill" > wrote in message
...
> Hoff wrote:
>
> > FWIW, I just use a couple of electric space heaters.
> > Granted, if I remember right you're a little farther north.
> > But as long as I remember to run them for an hour before I
> > workout, they do OK.
>
> Yeah, I wonder how much heat I really need. The garage is truly
> big (like 24 x 26 x 12), so heating the whole thing from a cold
> condition would be pretty hard, but heating an area to an
> acceptable level might not be so bad.
>
> --
> -Wayne

Problem is both the room size and the ceiling height. With 12' ceilings all
the heat is going to be above your head. To heat a usable area you're going
to have to heat a good portion of the garage because of the heat rising.
The heaters output will heat an area before it rising above your head and
disperses. To reach a comfortable temp. in an area will require the heaters
output to be high enough to continually heat that area (as previous output
has risen and dispersed) or one that can heat the whole space. In either
case the heater output is going to have to be really good if you want to
raise the ambiant room temp. more than a degree or two.

An electric heater (even the better ones) probably won't put out heat
quickly enough to overcome the garage's heat loss (unless it's fully
insulated). My garage is 22'x24'x10' and last winter I put an electric
heater in it when I was doing some woodworking. The only way I could even
feel a temp. difference was to hold my hand right if front of, or directly
above, the heater. A couple years ago I tried a propane heater (the kind
that attach directly to a propane tank from a grill). It's heat output was
much better than the two electric space heaters I've owned, but with propane
you have to vent the room hich means opening a door/window which defeats the
heaters output. (BTW, I live in Minnesota and in winter my garage temp gets
as low as 30*)

What about just "walling" off an area? Hell, you could hang sheets of
plastic from the ceiling as "walls" and then just heat inside this area.
Obviously plastic sheets aren't going to hold the heat in as well as
insulated walls but it'd be better than nothing (think taking a hot shower
and then opeing the shower curtain to a "comparatively" cold bathroom).

Michael

Keith Hobman
October 21st 03, 07:53 PM
In article >, "Jim Ranieri" <[email protected]>
wrote:

> "Wayne S. Hill" > wrote in message
>
> > Well, it turns out there's a sign on the door saying the gym
> > will be closed until further notice (which is pretty funny,
> > considering the lack of notice in the first place). It turns
> > out that (apparently) federal agents went in, ordered
> > everybody out (including people in the showers, for cryin' out
> > loud), changed the locks, and shut the place down.
> >
> > I've heard a third-hand account of what was going on, but
> > don't know for sure. Aside from potentially lost membership
> > fees, this leaves me on the horns of a dilemma:
> >
>
> Ugh, bad new when the federales come to call. Taxes? Or none of my damn
> business? Anyway, I feel your pain. With a house that already has too many
> toys (ditto on the kayaks in the garage), you hate like hell to introduce
> any new stuff. Here's a thought, maybe completely off the wall, but if
> there are dozen or so other lifters from your gym that are on the horns of
> the same dilemma - how about checking into renting a small outbuilding /
> shop and co-op the equipment purchases. Who knows, maybe your former gym
> owner is a motivated seller at this point.

How many toys do you really need?

Get the adjustable dbs and nothing else if necessary.

Or get a decent olympic bar and training bumpers. You already have boxes
or sawhorses, I'm sure.

--
Keith Hobman

--- email address above is a non-monitored spam sink.

Wayne S. Hill
October 21st 03, 09:14 PM
Keith Hobman wrote:

> How many toys do you really need?
>
> Get the adjustable dbs and nothing else if necessary.
>
> Or get a decent olympic bar and training bumpers. You
> already have boxes or sawhorses, I'm sure.

None of that is a problem. The problem is the final frontier:
you know, space. I like the bar and bumpers idea, personally.

--
-Wayne

Wayne S. Hill
October 21st 03, 09:16 PM
Jim Ranieri wrote:

> Ugh, bad new when the federales come to call. Taxes? Or none
> of my damn business? Anyway, I feel your pain. With a house
> that already has too many toys (ditto on the kayaks in the
> garage), you hate like hell to introduce any new stuff.
> Here's a thought, maybe completely off the wall, but if
> there are dozen or so other lifters from your gym that are
> on the horns of the same dilemma - how about checking into
> renting a small outbuilding / shop and co-op the equipment
> purchases. Who knows, maybe your former gym owner is a
> motivated seller at this point.

Interesting you should mention this. A while back, a few of us
were standing around talking about buying the owner out and
running it as a semi-business: that is, charge enough to cover
expenses, but use it more as a coop gym. I have my doubts that
we'd be able to buy the equipment at this point, because if the
fault is with the gym (rather than the building owner), the feds
will control the process of selling off the equipment.

--
-Wayne

Wayne S. Hill
October 21st 03, 09:21 PM
Spammers_Should_Be_Shot wrote:

> "Wayne S. Hill" > wrote...
>> Lee Michaels wrote:
>
> <<snipped>>
>
>> > 4) Insulation: I have insulated a garage with a couple
>> > helpers in less than a day. Insulation is cheap. Some
>> > staplers, a serrated edge knife, a step ladder and rolls
>> > of insulation is all you need. Its been awhile but I
>> > remesber doing a job for about $150 - $ 200.
>>
>> I would do that in a heartbeat if it were that
>> straightforward. The problem is that the garage is under
>> part of the house, so it's already sheet-rocked, but not
>> insulated. There's also a lot of stuff mounted to the
>> walls, so fixing this would be a big job. Hmm, maybe we
>> could use blown insulation...
>
> If the garage is under part of the house than that part is
> already insulated (well, by current codes, depending upon
> when it was built, I guess it's possible yours isn't).
> Typically a house is insulated between any heated space and
> any unheated space (not just outside air). So when building
> an addition over an unheated garage the new additions floor
> (i.e. garage's new ceiling) would be insulated.

Well, the garage ceiling under the living spaces is heated, but
not the garage walls. There's another section under a deck
that's not insulated, but that roof leaks occasionally, so
insulating it would require a different approach.

> Look into a ventless gas heater (sometimes called a "garage
> heater"). They hook up to a gas line but require no
> venting. They run about $150 for a unit for a 2-car garage
> (3-car versions costs ~$200).

Huh: I'll look into those.

> The
> one thing to consider with heating the garage is that since
> it's uninsulated you're going to have a pretty high heat
> loss. I recommend insulating the ceiling (even if you just
> use a couple layers of 1-1/2" rigid insulation attached to
> the existing gypsum board ceiling) and minimizng drafts. I
> don't know if your garage door is insulated or not but I
> wouldn't worry too much about it and the garage walls.
> You'll get the most "bang-for-your-buck" just eliminating
> air leaks (i.e. around doors/windows) and insulating the
> ceiling.

Yeah, yeah, I know this stuff. I used to design heating
appliances. Thanks for the tips.

--
-Wayne

Wayne S. Hill
October 21st 03, 09:26 PM
Spammers_Should_Be_Shot wrote:

> Problem is both the room size and the ceiling height. With
> 12' ceilings all the heat is going to be above your head.

It's worse than that. The 12' ceiling height is an average
between 10' and 14'. The 14' is directly over the area where
I'd be working out.

> To heat a usable area you're going to have to heat a good
> portion of the garage because of the heat rising. The
> heaters output will heat an area before it rising above your
> head and disperses. To reach a comfortable temp. in an area
> will require the heaters output to be high enough to
> continually heat that area (as previous output has risen and
> dispersed) or one that can heat the whole space. In either
> case the heater output is going to have to be really good if
> you want to raise the ambiant room temp. more than a degree
> or two.

True, this is where Lee's idea of an infrared heater makes
sense. I'll be working out in a compact area, so I just need to
heat some surfaces.

> (BTW, I live in Minnesota and in winter my garage temp gets as
> low as 30*)

I'm in Massachusetts, and my garage often gets colder than that
(because the garage door is leaky).

> What about just "walling" off an area?

Heck, I'll be lucky if my legs aren't under a car when I'm
benching. This will be a pretty minimalist setup, at best.

--
-Wayne

Lee Michaels
October 21st 03, 09:59 PM
"Wayne S. Hill" > wrote in message
...
> Jim Ranieri wrote:
>
> > Ugh, bad new when the federales come to call. Taxes? Or none
> > of my damn business? Anyway, I feel your pain. With a house
> > that already has too many toys (ditto on the kayaks in the
> > garage), you hate like hell to introduce any new stuff.
> > Here's a thought, maybe completely off the wall, but if
> > there are dozen or so other lifters from your gym that are
> > on the horns of the same dilemma - how about checking into
> > renting a small outbuilding / shop and co-op the equipment
> > purchases. Who knows, maybe your former gym owner is a
> > motivated seller at this point.
>
> Interesting you should mention this. A while back, a few of us
> were standing around talking about buying the owner out and
> running it as a semi-business: that is, charge enough to cover
> expenses, but use it more as a coop gym. I have my doubts that
> we'd be able to buy the equipment at this point, because if the
> fault is with the gym (rather than the building owner), the feds
> will control the process of selling off the equipment.
>

I have seen a couple coop gyms.

They basically bought the equipment of a small gym going out of business.
Everybody paid a small fee each month and had a key. It works for awhile.
But eventually somebody gets greedy and steals some weights or equipment.
That is the end of the coop.

Dan Finn
October 21st 03, 10:12 PM
On 21 Oct 2003 20:26:28 GMT, "Wayne S. Hill" > wrote:

>Spammers_Should_Be_Shot wrote:
>
>> Problem is both the room size and the ceiling height. With
>> 12' ceilings all the heat is going to be above your head.
>
>It's worse than that. The 12' ceiling height is an average
>between 10' and 14'. The 14' is directly over the area where
>I'd be working out.
>
fantastic, you can do jumping squats as well as jumping deadlifts.


dan finn
mfw : this ain't spa lady

Wayne S. Hill
October 21st 03, 10:54 PM
Dan Finn wrote:

> Wayne S. Hill wrote:
>>Spammers_Should_Be_Shot wrote:
>>
>>> Problem is both the room size and the ceiling height.
>>> With 12' ceilings all the heat is going to be above your
>>> head.
>
>>It's worse than that. The 12' ceiling height is an average
>>between 10' and 14'. The 14' is directly over the area
>>where I'd be working out.
>
> fantastic, you can do jumping squats as well as jumping
> deadlifts.

Heck, I could even throw weight over bar, although there's the
significant likelihood of a weight going through a windshield or
creasing a hood. My wife would probably give me grief over that
(go figure).

--
-Wayne

Randy Shrader
October 22nd 03, 12:43 AM
"Wayne S. Hill" > wrote in message
...
> Lee Michaels wrote:
>
>
> I would do that in a heartbeat if it were that straightforward.
> The problem is that the garage is under part of the house, so
> it's already sheet-rocked, but not insulated. There's also a
> lot of stuff mounted to the walls, so fixing this would be a big
> job. Hmm, maybe we could use blown insulation...
>
> > I have put in both stoves and heaters into these rooms.
>
> These are the lines I'm thinking along right now, basically a
> heater I would turn on when I get home from work that takes the
> bite out of the air and lets me work out. I'm not sure what
> kind of heater to use: there's no floor space for a wood stove,
> so it would either be a salamander (probably illegal), an
> unvented gas heater (also possibly illegal), or installing a
> vented gas heater.
>
> --
> -Wayne

At work we have a gadget called a HeatDish. It's an electric heater
consisting of an element in the center of a parabolic reflector. The whole
thing is about the size of a 14" desktop fan and throws quite a bit of heat
into a small area to a distance of 10-12 feet or so. You could get fancy
and use a couple of them, both focused on your work area. Or (and this was
about 15 years ago) I've used Kero-Sun portable kerosene heaters . . . they
were a good way to keep the pipes (and occupants) from freezing in the even
of a power outage. They had a lot of different models, were pretty
fuel-efficient, and could put out an assload of heat. Whatever's taken
their place in the market today is probably more efficient still.

Also, I've done a lot of work outside in a Saskatchewan winter. The biggest
problem is wind chill; if you're inside and the temperature is anything
above, say, -10 C, it shouldn't be a problem once you're warmed up. Even
at -10, with no wind to worry about you'll probably be breaking a sweat
wearing just sweatpants and a long-sleeved shirt. Of course if it's -40,
YMMV, but you should be able to rig something up to get the temp. up to
tolerable levels. And keep some warm water handy to unstick your hands from
the bars.

Randy




---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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Wayne S. Hill
October 22nd 03, 12:57 AM
Randy Shrader wrote:


> And keep some warm water handy to unstick your hands from
> the bars.

You just touched on my biggest concern. With my tiny wrists,
my grip deteriorates badly in cold conditions (brings back
awful memories of some cold-weather rugby games, where I
couldn't move my fingers or wrists). Even a cold bar could be
a problem for the ol' grip.

--
-Wayne

Lee Michaels
October 22nd 03, 01:10 AM
"Wayne S. Hill" > wrote in message
...
> Randy Shrader wrote:
>
>
> > And keep some warm water handy to unstick your hands from
> > the bars.
>
> You just touched on my biggest concern. With my tiny wrists,
> my grip deteriorates badly in cold conditions (brings back
> awful memories of some cold-weather rugby games, where I
> couldn't move my fingers or wrists). Even a cold bar could be
> a problem for the ol' grip.
>

I built (or had built) a lot of custom stuff over the years. This is a new
one on me. I have small hands myself. But I guess I don't have the problems
of the cold affecting my grip.

Oh well, we all are different and have our unique challenges. If in fact
this is a problem for you, figure out a solution. My best guess solution
would be to make an insulated box to store the bars in. Put some kind of
safe heater in it. One thing that comes to mind is the electric rocks that
are put into reptile cages.

I would think that the bars would retain their heat through the workout. If
not, put them down in front of a heater.

Another thing that might help would be to have mommy kiss your widdle hands
before you workout.

Wayne S. Hill
October 22nd 03, 01:50 AM
Lee Michaels wrote:

> I built (or had built) a lot of custom stuff over the years.
> This is a new one on me. I have small hands myself. But I
> guess I don't have the problems of the cold affecting my
> grip.

This has been a problem for me for decades.

> Oh well, we all are different and have our unique
> challenges. If in fact this is a problem for you, figure out
> a solution. My best guess solution would be to make an
> insulated box to store the bars in. Put some kind of safe
> heater in it. One thing that comes to mind is the electric
> rocks that are put into reptile cages.

I think the radiant heater idea addresses this nicely, actually,
by heating material surfaces first.

> I would think that the bars would retain their heat through
> the workout. If not, put them down in front of a heater.
>
> Another thing that might help would be to have mommy kiss
> your widdle hands before you workout.

That too.

--
-Wayne

guy-jin
October 22nd 03, 06:36 AM
"Lee Michaels" > wrote in message >...

> I have seen a couple coop gyms.
>
> They basically bought the equipment of a small gym going out of business.
> Everybody paid a small fee each month and had a key. It works for awhile.
> But eventually somebody gets greedy and steals some weights or equipment.
> That is the end of the coop.

Get some of those theft prevention tags and some detectors by the doors.

Jim Ranieri
October 22nd 03, 12:56 PM
"Lee Michaels" > wrote in message > I
have seen a couple coop gyms.
>
> They basically bought the equipment of a small gym going out of business.
> Everybody paid a small fee each month and had a key. It works for awhile.
> But eventually somebody gets greedy and steals some weights or equipment.
> That is the end of the coop.
>
>

No wonder communism failed.

Dan Finn
October 23rd 03, 05:40 PM
On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 06:56:02 -0500, "Jim Ranieri" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"Lee Michaels" > wrote in message > I
>have seen a couple coop gyms.
>>
>> They basically bought the equipment of a small gym going out of business.
>> Everybody paid a small fee each month and had a key. It works for awhile.
>> But eventually somebody gets greedy and steals some weights or equipment.
>> That is the end of the coop.
>>
>>
>
>No wonder communism failed.
>
people were stealing their weights? Damned commies.



dan finn
mfw : this ain't spa lady