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Tarasov1
November 4th 03, 08:08 PM
I am a firefighter and I work a 24 hour shift every third day. There are
frequently days that I go the entire 24 hours without sleeping. I have used
ephedra products, like Xenadrine and Metabolift, in my training and also at
times when I needed a bit of energy at work. The problem is now I can't find it
anywhere, either over the counter or online. Is it still available anywhere?
Also, are there any other supplements currently on the market that would
produce a similar energy spike?

Thx

T-REx
November 4th 03, 09:12 PM
> I am a firefighter and I work a 24 hour shift every third day. There are
> frequently days that I go the entire 24 hours without sleeping. I have
used
> ephedra products, like Xenadrine and Metabolift, in my training and also
at
> times when I needed a bit of energy at work. The problem is now I can't
find it
> anywhere, either over the counter or online. Is it still available
anywhere?
> Also, are there any other supplements currently on the market that would
> produce a similar energy spike?


I pretty sure all products w/ ephedra have been discontinued and replaced w/
ephedra-free versions. I have seen the old products online, but the prices
are hiked up, and once they are soldout, they won't be restocked. Try going
to Froogle.com and searching for Labrada Charge. That's the product I used
and it is good. You'll have to search through all the "hits" and make sure
the product being sold is the old version w/ ephdra.

InfoGuy123
November 5th 03, 01:46 AM
I recently bought 3 bottles of TwinLab Diet Fuel (W/ephedra) online because
it's virtually impossible to find ephedra-containing supplements in any retail
establishment in Koleefawnia at this point.
Starting Jan 1 2004 ephedra products cannot even be sold in this state
anymore, so I guess even the mail order route will be closed.
Today's (Tuesday 11/4) newspaper indicated that New York has now banned the
sale of ephedra products, joining this state and Illinois.
Anyone know if pseudoephedrine (or any other product) can be used
effectively/safely as an ephedra alternative?


"If ye love wealth better than liberty ... servitude better than ... freedom,
go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsel or your arms ... May your
chains set lightly upon you. May posterity forget that ye were our countrymen."
- Samuel Adams

T-REx
November 5th 03, 02:09 AM
> Anyone know if pseudoephedrine (or any other product) can be used
> effectively/safely as an ephedra alternative?

Try doing a search on norephedrine....

John M. Williams
November 5th 03, 04:05 AM
"T-REx" > wrote:

>> Anyone know if pseudoephedrine (or any other product) can be used
>> effectively/safely as an ephedra alternative?
>
>Try doing a search on norephedrine....

Norephedrine is not pseudoephedrine. Norephedrine is
phenylpropanolamine (PPA). Due to FDA warnings in November 2000,
manufacturers quit using PPA, despite its safe usage in OTC
preparations for decades.

Don't count on being able to find PPA.

Jeff Finlayson
November 5th 03, 05:14 AM
T-REx wrote:
>>
>>I am a firefighter and I work a 24 hour shift every third day. There are
>>frequently days that I go the entire 24 hours without sleeping. I have
>>used ephedra products, like Xenadrine and Metabolift, in my training
>>and also at times when I needed a bit of energy at work.
>>The problem is now I can't find it anywhere, either over the
>> counter or online. Is it still available anywhere?
>
>>Also, are there any other supplements currently on the market that would
>>produce a similar energy spike?
>
> I pretty sure all products w/ ephedra have been discontinued and replaced w/
> ephedra-free versions.

Not all products. But they are going that way.

> I have seen the old products online, but the prices are hiked up,
> and once they are soldout, they won't be restocked. Try going
> to Froogle.com and searching for Labrada Charge. That's the product I used
> and it is good. You'll have to search through all the "hits" and make sure
> the product being sold is the old version w/ ephdra.

Try netrition.com.

Proton Soup
November 5th 03, 05:41 AM
On Tue, 04 Nov 2003 23:05:33 -0500, John M. Williams
> wrote:

>"T-REx" > wrote:
>
>>> Anyone know if pseudoephedrine (or any other product) can be used
>>> effectively/safely as an ephedra alternative?
>>
>>Try doing a search on norephedrine....
>
>Norephedrine is not pseudoephedrine. Norephedrine is
>phenylpropanolamine (PPA). Due to FDA warnings in November 2000,
>manufacturers quit using PPA, despite its safe usage in OTC
>preparations for decades.
>
>Don't count on being able to find PPA.

I expect pseudoephedrine to disappear, as well. Just as soon as we
hit the next slow news cycle, some teen is going kill himself on
homemade meth, and it'll be a child from a "good" family. We'll have
to ban the only decongestant that works for me, because some
most-likely-to-succeed, Haaarvard-bound geek tweaked himself to death
during a slow news cycle. If I knew who he was, I'd kill him myself.

Proton Soup

John M. Williams
November 5th 03, 06:18 AM
Proton Soup > wrote:
> John M. Williams > wrote:
>>"T-REx" > wrote:
>>
>>>> Anyone know if pseudoephedrine (or any other product) can be used
>>>> effectively/safely as an ephedra alternative?
>>>
>>>Try doing a search on norephedrine....
>>
>>Norephedrine is not pseudoephedrine. Norephedrine is
>>phenylpropanolamine (PPA). Due to FDA warnings in November 2000,
>>manufacturers quit using PPA, despite its safe usage in OTC
>>preparations for decades.
>>
>>Don't count on being able to find PPA.
>
>I expect pseudoephedrine to disappear, as well. Just as soon as we
>hit the next slow news cycle, some teen is going kill himself on
>homemade meth, and it'll be a child from a "good" family. We'll have
>to ban the only decongestant that works for me, because some
>most-likely-to-succeed, Haaarvard-bound geek tweaked himself to death
>during a slow news cycle. If I knew who he was, I'd kill him myself.

I don't think so. Pseudoephedrine has been exempted in most of the
ephedra bans I have seen. It has much less CNS stimulation, and major
pharmaceutical companies have a strong interest in maintain their OTC
preparations (e.g., SudafedŽ).

Wayne S. Hill
November 5th 03, 01:50 PM
John M. Williams wrote:

> Proton Soup > wrote:
>> John M. Williams wrote:
>>>"T-REx" > wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Anyone know if pseudoephedrine (or any other product)
>>>>> can be used effectively/safely as an ephedra
>>>>> alternative?
>>>>
>>>>Try doing a search on norephedrine....
>>>
>>>Norephedrine is not pseudoephedrine. Norephedrine is
>>>phenylpropanolamine (PPA). Due to FDA warnings in November
>>>2000, manufacturers quit using PPA, despite its safe usage
>>>in OTC preparations for decades.
>>>
>>>Don't count on being able to find PPA.
>>
>>I expect pseudoephedrine to disappear, as well. Just as
>>soon as we hit the next slow news cycle, some teen is going
>>kill himself on homemade meth, and it'll be a child from a
>>"good" family. We'll have to ban the only decongestant that
>>works for me,

They already did that to me: PPA.

>>because some most-likely-to-succeed,
>>Haaarvard-bound geek tweaked himself to death during a slow
>>news cycle. If I knew who he was, I'd kill him myself.
>
> I don't think so. Pseudoephedrine has been exempted in most
> of the ephedra bans I have seen. It has much less CNS
> stimulation, and major pharmaceutical companies have a
> strong interest in maintain their OTC preparations (e.g.,
> SudafedŽ).

This is true but, used as prescribed, pseudoephedrine is
actually much more dangerous than PPA ever was. I won't take
it, because of its effect on my heart. My allergist shakes his
head over the ready availability of pseudoephedrine and lack of
availability of PPA. He doesn't prescribe pseudoephedrine, and
says he expects/hopes to see PPA come back.

--
-Wayne

elzinator
November 5th 03, 11:34 PM
On 5 Nov 2003 13:50:05 GMT, "Wayne S. Hill" > wrote:

>This is true but, used as prescribed, pseudoephedrine is
>actually much more dangerous than PPA ever was. I won't take
>it, because of its effect on my heart. My allergist shakes his
>head over the ready availability of pseudoephedrine and lack of
>availability of PPA. He doesn't prescribe pseudoephedrine, and
>says he expects/hopes to see PPA come back.

There is different interindividual and intraindividual response to PE
and PAA. PPA affects me more than PE.

And the side effects, CNS and SNS stimulation, downregulate rather
quickly, depending on dosage and frequency, corresponding to the
desensitization and downregulation of the beta-adrenoceptors. The 200
mg of PE in my allergy meds sure cranked me up for the first few days,
but that diminished within a week. I also discovered last weekend that
ephdrine HCl doesn't affect me at all (probably due to being on
allergy meds with PE for two months).

Each of them have different affinities for the beta-ARs and also
varying dissociation constants.

John M. Williams
November 6th 03, 04:45 AM
"Wayne S. Hill" > wrote:
>John M. Williams wrote:
>> Proton Soup > wrote:
>>> John M. Williams wrote:
>>>>"T-REx" > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> Anyone know if pseudoephedrine (or any other product)
>>>>>> can be used effectively/safely as an ephedra
>>>>>> alternative?
>>>>>
>>>>>Try doing a search on norephedrine....
>>>>
>>>>Norephedrine is not pseudoephedrine. Norephedrine is
>>>>phenylpropanolamine (PPA). Due to FDA warnings in November
>>>>2000, manufacturers quit using PPA, despite its safe usage
>>>>in OTC preparations for decades.
>>>>
>>>>Don't count on being able to find PPA.
>>>
>>>I expect pseudoephedrine to disappear, as well. Just as
>>>soon as we hit the next slow news cycle, some teen is going
>>>kill himself on homemade meth, and it'll be a child from a
>>>"good" family. We'll have to ban the only decongestant that
>>>works for me,
>
>They already did that to me: PPA.
>
>>>because some most-likely-to-succeed,
>>>Haaarvard-bound geek tweaked himself to death during a slow
>>>news cycle. If I knew who he was, I'd kill him myself.
>>
>> I don't think so. Pseudoephedrine has been exempted in most
>> of the ephedra bans I have seen. It has much less CNS
>> stimulation, and major pharmaceutical companies have a
>> strong interest in maintain their OTC preparations (e.g.,
>> SudafedŽ).
>
>This is true but, used as prescribed, pseudoephedrine is
>actually much more dangerous than PPA ever was. I won't take
>it, because of its effect on my heart. My allergist shakes his
>head over the ready availability of pseudoephedrine and lack of
>availability of PPA. He doesn't prescribe pseudoephedrine, and
>says he expects/hopes to see PPA come back.

A letter to the editor published in the New England Journal of
Medicine did recommend that PPA be banned only for use in dietary
aids, but not in decongestants. And that would probably address the
real problem.

The real problem is how the two ephedra alkaloids are used. Both have
been shown to cause substantial increases in systolic blood pressure,
with pseudoephedrine causing about a 50% higher increase, when
adminstered orally at 10mg/kg. However, pseudophedrine's use in OTC
preparations has been limited almost solely to decongestants, while
PPA has been used in both decongestants AND anorectics.

Which group of users do you think is more likely to abuse the dosage?

Keep in mind that controlled substance scheduling is directed, first
and foremost, to a drug's potential for abuse.

Babba Rom Dos
November 9th 03, 04:27 AM
(Tarasov1) wrote in
:

The problem is now I can't find it anywhere, either over the counter or
> online. Is it still available anywhere?
Apparently yes. Thursday evening, after my workout I was dry and whooped.
Since I wasn't going home right away, I went over to the cooler where the
gym sells a bunch of drinks from water to Myoplex, energy things, who knows
what. So, I picked up something that looks good, fruit punch flavor. I
looked at the nutrition info and ingredients but since I didn't have my
glasses I couldn't read it. Usually I wouldn't drink anything unless I knew
what was in it. But I was so thirsty and shakey feeling I went and got it
and drank it anyway. That was about 8 pm.
4 am I pulled the bottle out of the trash and read the ingredients. Ma
Huang, 20 mg ephedra alkaloids, guarana, 200 mg caffeine.
It's called "Ripped Force" by ABB. Just don't recommend using it after
noon.

Bob
November 9th 03, 11:48 AM
(Tarasov1) wrote in message >...
> I am a firefighter and I work a 24 hour shift every third day. There are
> frequently days that I go the entire 24 hours without sleeping. I have used
> ephedra products, like Xenadrine and Metabolift, in my training and also at
> times when I needed a bit of energy at work. The problem is now I can't find it
> anywhere, either over the counter or online. Is it still available anywhere?
> Also, are there any other supplements currently on the market that would
> produce a similar energy spike?
>
> Thx


I also work nights in an emergency center and used Twin Labs Diet fuel
to get some through some long shifts. I just ordered (2) 180 count
bottles from the Signature, web site below, and got my order in 3
days. You can type ephedra into Google search, numerous on line
companies will be listed on the right side of the screen that carry
ephedra products.

https://www.signaturenutrition.com/ecommerce/control/main

Bob