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oregonchick
August 22nd 06, 05:34 AM
Ok, I know this ain't alt.support.diet. But I guess I'm here because I
think I'll get more realistic advice and a good ass kicking... Here's the
thing. I'd like to lose 10 lbs. I'm female, 5'3" and weigh 138. I had a
baby in December, and I was sure by now I'd be back to prepregnancy weight.
I am doing a full body weight routine 3 times a week, and have been for 3
months. I do cardio 4-5 times a week - 45+ minutes on the elliptical. In
the past month or so, I've been doing one long bike ride (20-40 miles) about
once every week in addition. My stamina is up, my energy is up, I feel
better, yadda yadda. But the damned scale hasn't moved hardly at all..maybe
2 lbs. I average 1600-1800 calories per day. I thought this was pretty
reasonable with my level of activity lately. But I guess not... or I'd be
losing weight. I lost weight before at that level. I'd love to think I was
losing fat and gaining muscle, but while my clothes are fitting looser, I
haven't gone down a whole pants size.

I know I'm doing something wrong. I'm the kind of impatient person that
gets frustrated and discouraged if I don't see SOME progress. It doesn't
help that I just got back from vacation and I have zero motivation. I'm
kind of tempted to try something like a fast, just for a week, to jump start
things again, I don't believe in fad diets or quick fixes, but I need to get
a handle on things again. What kind of results could I hope to see on
something like a protein sparing fast?

Betsy

David Cohen
August 22nd 06, 05:59 AM
"oregonchick" > wrote
> Ok, I know this ain't alt.support.diet. But I guess I'm here because I
> think I'll get more realistic advice and a good ass kicking... Here's the
> thing. I'd like to lose 10 lbs. I'm female, 5'3" and weigh 138. I had a
> baby in December, and I was sure by now I'd be back to prepregnancy
> weight. I am doing a full body weight routine 3 times a week, and have
> been for 3 months. I do cardio 4-5 times a week - 45+ minutes on the
> elliptical. In the past month or so, I've been doing one long bike ride
> (20-40 miles) about once every week in addition. My stamina is up, my
> energy is up, I feel better, yadda yadda. But the damned scale hasn't
> moved hardly at all..maybe 2 lbs. I average 1600-1800 calories per day.
> I thought this was pretty reasonable with my level of activity lately.
> But I guess not... or I'd be losing weight. I lost weight before at that
> level. I'd love to think I was losing fat and gaining muscle, but while
> my clothes are fitting looser, I haven't gone down a whole pants size.
>
> I know I'm doing something wrong. I'm the kind of impatient person that
> gets frustrated and discouraged if I don't see SOME progress. It doesn't
> help that I just got back from vacation and I have zero motivation. I'm
> kind of tempted to try something like a fast, just for a week, to jump
> start things again, I don't believe in fad diets or quick fixes, but I
> need to get a handle on things again. What kind of results could I hope
> to see on something like a protein sparing fast?

Large amounts of fat lost with minimal muscle loss.

Ironically, they call it a protein sparing modified fast. Go figure :)

Buy the book:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0967145643/sr=1-2/qid=1156222652/ref=pd_bbs_2/002-0657946-6776816?ie=UTF8&s=books

David

Kettlebell Inc
August 22nd 06, 06:01 AM
oregonchick wrote:
> Ok, I know this ain't alt.support.diet. But I guess I'm here because I
> think I'll get more realistic advice and a good ass kicking... Here's the
> thing. I'd like to lose 10 lbs. I'm female, 5'3" and weigh 138. I had a
> baby in December, and I was sure by now I'd be back to prepregnancy weight.

> Betsy

Hi Betsy,

Check out this site:
http://www.nofearfitness.com

Lisa will be able to set you up. She is a Mother of 3 and an awesome
fitness instructor. She has a lot of experience with training after
pregnancy.

Best of luck,
John

Curt James
August 22nd 06, 06:03 AM
oregonchick wrote:
> Ok, I know this ain't alt.support.diet. But <snip>

But me no buts! ;o) Prepare for an ass kicking!

First, however... congratulations on the December baby.

> I'm kind of tempted to try something like a fast, just for
> a week, to jump start things again,

I believe fasts can be a healthy choice, however I also believe I lost
too much muscle - certainly strength when I gave that a shot. BAH!

> I don't believe in fad diets <snip>

IT'S NOT A FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD!
/whine

http://theabsdiet.com/
/plug

Ten bucks (or so), Betsy. Please give it a look.

Wishing you all the best,

--
Curt
http://curtjames.com/

oregonchick
August 22nd 06, 06:13 AM
"Curt James" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> oregonchick wrote:
>> Ok, I know this ain't alt.support.diet. But <snip>
>
> But me no buts! ;o) Prepare for an ass kicking!
>
> First, however... congratulations on the December baby.
>
>> I'm kind of tempted to try something like a fast, just for
>> a week, to jump start things again,
>
> I believe fasts can be a healthy choice, however I also believe I lost
> too much muscle - certainly strength when I gave that a shot. BAH!
>
>> I don't believe in fad diets <snip>
>
> IT'S NOT A FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD!
> /whine
>
> http://theabsdiet.com/
> /plug
>
> Ten bucks (or so), Betsy. Please give it a look.
>
> Wishing you all the best,
>
> --
> Curt
> http://curtjames.com/

But it wants me to sign up for men's health newsleters or something like
that... What about Lyle's book? It has good reviews on Amazon....lol.

Seriously, before I buy a book on a diet, what is so special about this abs
diet, and why can't you just post what I'm supposed to do here? Pretty
please...

oregonchick
August 22nd 06, 06:16 AM
"David Cohen" > wrote in message
et...
>
> "oregonchick" > wrote
>> Ok, I know this ain't alt.support.diet. But I guess I'm here because I
>> think I'll get more realistic advice and a good ass kicking... Here's
>> the thing. I'd like to lose 10 lbs. I'm female, 5'3" and weigh 138. I
>> had a baby in December, and I was sure by now I'd be back to prepregnancy
>> weight. I am doing a full body weight routine 3 times a week, and have
>> been for 3 months. I do cardio 4-5 times a week - 45+ minutes on the
>> elliptical. In the past month or so, I've been doing one long bike ride
>> (20-40 miles) about once every week in addition. My stamina is up, my
>> energy is up, I feel better, yadda yadda. But the damned scale hasn't
>> moved hardly at all..maybe 2 lbs. I average 1600-1800 calories per day.
>> I thought this was pretty reasonable with my level of activity lately.
>> But I guess not... or I'd be losing weight. I lost weight before at
>> that level. I'd love to think I was losing fat and gaining muscle, but
>> while my clothes are fitting looser, I haven't gone down a whole pants
>> size.
>>
>> I know I'm doing something wrong. I'm the kind of impatient person that
>> gets frustrated and discouraged if I don't see SOME progress. It doesn't
>> help that I just got back from vacation and I have zero motivation. I'm
>> kind of tempted to try something like a fast, just for a week, to jump
>> start things again, I don't believe in fad diets or quick fixes, but I
>> need to get a handle on things again. What kind of results could I hope
>> to see on something like a protein sparing fast?
>
> Large amounts of fat lost with minimal muscle loss.
>
> Ironically, they call it a protein sparing modified fast. Go figure :)
>
> Buy the book:
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0967145643/sr=1-2/qid=1156222652/ref=pd_bbs_2/002-0657946-6776816?ie=UTF8&s=books
>
> David


Why did he have to write such an expensive book? It had better be damned
good... If it doesn't work any better than the thigh master, I'll be
ticked.

Curt James
August 22nd 06, 06:27 AM
Curt James wrote:
> oregonchick wrote:
> > Ok, I know this ain't alt.support.diet. But <snip>
[...]

> http://theabsdiet.com/
> /plug

[...]

Grrr. My doofus fake html "ran into" the provided URL in my previous
post. Regardless of whether you purchase the book David recommends
(link elsewhere in this thread) or investigate the site John provided
the link to (link elsewhere in this thread, too, and the site looks
great, btw), or take a peek at The Abs Diet, wishing you a *CRUSHED*
plateau!

And, Betsy, I can definitely identify or empathize with
"goals-yet-to-be-achieved" frustration. Seemingly FOREVER I've been
striving for the elusive 15" bicep and 45" chest (puffed up like a
blowfish) measurement. Well, Sunday, August 20, with a mongo pump, my
right bicep measured... 14 7/8".

AAAUUUGGHH!!!

I am the Charlie Brown of bodybuilding! And my tape measure is named
Lucy Van Pelt. :o/

But my chest (flexed and with an equally mongo pump and hyoooge gulp of
air) taped at 45 inches FINALLY! (Although, yeah, pumped measurements
don't count in my book. Still, it was cool for this skinny man to
stretch the tape that far.)

Keep striving.

--
Curt

Curt James
August 22nd 06, 06:59 AM
oregonchick wrote:
[...]

> But it wants me to sign up for men's health newsleters
> or something like that...

Forget the newsletters. :o)

> What about Lyle's book? It has good reviews on Amazon....
> lol.

I'll trust you on those Amazon reviews and although I'm unfamiliar with
Lyle's book, I'll take Cohen's word on that recommendation.

> Seriously, before I buy a book on a diet,

Heck, ping me with your snail mail and I'll send you a copy! Just give
the diet an honest shot and post a follow-up report to MFW, Betsy.

> what is so special about this abs diet,

FUNNY YOU SHOULD ASK THAT QUESTION, BETSY!!!!

Some I'm sure would say the http://theabsdiet.com/ website smacks of
hucksterism, but I see it as an entertaining style of writing.
References to pop culture in Archie Bunker, enthusiasm-building visual
imagery in "fat furnaces" and, yes, a BUY NOW! TODAY! directive in
"you'll lose up to 12 pounds of fat--from your belly first!" But the
information is rock solid.

I know I'm a cheerleader for this book and, yes, biased, so check out
what Publishers Weekly has to say:

Eat everything. Concentrate on whole grains. Drink milk. Balance
protein with carbohydrates. Avoid processed sugars. Do some exercise.
The idea that a diet book making such proposals comes as a pleasant
surprise shows just how far afield we've gone in the search for new
ways to be fit. The only thing new about this diet by the
editor-in-chief of Men's Health is its name, and this, one can presume,
is because nowadays, a book simply called "Sensible Eating" wouldn't
sell. The book's title is indeed misleading; only the final chapter
deals solely with abs. The rest is full of rational recommendations for
a realistic diet plan: eat more and smaller meals; have oatmeal in the
morning for a nourishing breakfast; don't starve yourself; drink plenty
of water; and stay away from sodas and foods that contain high-fructose
corn syrup. Whether readers will, in the end, walk away with abs of
steel is not really the point. They'll control their weight in a
healthy way, without counting calories, cutting out whole food groups
or supporting the beef futures market. Best of all, this book tells
readers why it works: increase your body's metabolism, gain some muscle
and fat burns away. The authors make this seem like a fresh and very
attainable ideal.
/quote from
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1579549985/104-4021844-4537547?v=glance&n=283155
aka http://tinyurl.com/pmykv

The Amazon link or TinyURL link will take you to Amazon's Abs Diet page
which, along with book specifics, offers 146 customer reviews not all
of which are especially glowing, which might dull any alarm bells which
might be ringing.

What's so special about The Abs Diet???

Why, it's Harley orange*! What can I say?

Seriously, I was first introduced to the book courtesy of Amazing Abs,
a just-less-than-magazine-size book from Men's Health and the good
people at Rodale Inc.

Amazing Abs has much the same info as The Abs Diet but with a lot more
pictures. The cover screams "LOSE YOUR GUT! Exclusive! Abs Diet
Excerpt" and has a pic of a guy displaying a cover model six-pack.

I liked the humor and no-nonsense approach used in that book. Diet and
exercise plans, visually appealing with tons of pics of male and female
models demonstrating correct exercise performance. Amazing Abs is a
collection of bits and pieces of other Rodale books edited together in
a truly artful way, imo. Informative, attractive, accessible.

Enjoying that book piqued my interest in The Abs Diet. Fwiw, it's a New
York Times bestseller. It's written in an engaging manner,
straightforward, intelligent, and, yes, again, with humor. Early in the
book, the message "Changing the Way You Think About the Word Diet" is
offered as a headline. The book does just that. The writers say it
better than I ever could:

"For years - or maybe for all your life - you've probably had one
notion about what dieting needs to be. Restrict your foods, eat like a
supermodel, sweat on the treadmill, and you'll lose fat. In reality,
those could be the very reasons why you couldn't lose weight. It's why
you gained back what you lost. It's the reason why your steamboat
metabolism may have geared down to that of an anchored barge. It's why
you don't see much progress when you try new weight-loss programs. And
it's why the only real recipe many diet plans offer is a recipe for
pecan-encrusted failure."

That's some visual imagery. I like it. A lot. Yeah, it could probably
be boiled down to five or ten pages of text, but for ten bucks, this
book and its philosophy, imo, can't be beat.

And, yes, David Zinczenko (with Ted Spiker) has a good bit of P.T.
Barnum or carnival barker in him, but, imo, this book is not for
suckers**. Zinczenko's enthusiasm leaps from the page. Good
information, visually appealing, right price, and a motivational
writing style all equal a book I'm glad I purchased. Ymmv. ;o)

I also picked up The Abs Diet Eat Right Every Time Guide which includes
789 of what the authors call the best on-the-go food choices. It's
offered as a complete supermarket survival guide and contains 60
six-minute meals for a six-pack.

*Note to Jason Earl: Technically, I don't believe the cover color IS
"Harley" orange. But it's certainly a FLUORESCENT orange that really
grabs your (okay MY) attention.

**bonus trivia wrt the suckers quote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There's_a_sucker_born_every_minute

> and why can't you just post what I'm supposed to do here?

I'm sure I could boil it down to a few sentences, but I doubt that'd do
either the book or your weight loss efforts any justice, Betsy.

> Pretty please...

Still, I'm offering you a copy of The Abs Diet for the cost of a go at
the book's recommendations and a follow-up report to the newsgroup.

What! A! Baaahgain!

--
Curt
the gmail address works

David Cohen
August 22nd 06, 07:04 AM
"oregonchick" > wrote
> "David Cohen" > wrote >>
>> "oregonchick" > wrote
>>> Ok, I know this ain't alt.support.diet. But I guess I'm here because I
>>> think I'll get more realistic advice and a good ass kicking... Here's
>>> the thing. I'd like to lose 10 lbs. I'm female, 5'3" and weigh 138. I
>>> had a baby in December, and I was sure by now I'd be back to
>>> prepregnancy weight. I am doing a full body weight routine 3 times a
>>> week, and have been for 3 months. I do cardio 4-5 times a week - 45+
>>> minutes on the elliptical. In the past month or so, I've been doing one
>>> long bike ride (20-40 miles) about once every week in addition. My
>>> stamina is up, my energy is up, I feel better, yadda yadda. But the
>>> damned scale hasn't moved hardly at all..maybe 2 lbs. I average
>>> 1600-1800 calories per day. I thought this was pretty reasonable with my
>>> level of activity lately. But I guess not... or I'd be losing weight.
>>> I lost weight before at that level. I'd love to think I was losing fat
>>> and gaining muscle, but while my clothes are fitting looser, I haven't
>>> gone down a whole pants size.
>>>
>>> I know I'm doing something wrong. I'm the kind of impatient person that
>>> gets frustrated and discouraged if I don't see SOME progress. It
>>> doesn't help that I just got back from vacation and I have zero
>>> motivation. I'm kind of tempted to try something like a fast, just for
>>> a week, to jump start things again, I don't believe in fad diets or
>>> quick fixes, but I need to get a handle on things again. What kind of
>>> results could I hope to see on something like a protein sparing fast?
>>
>> Large amounts of fat lost with minimal muscle loss.
>>
>> Ironically, they call it a protein sparing modified fast. Go figure :)
>>
>> Buy the book:
>> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0967145643/sr=1-2/qid=1156222652/ref=pd_bbs_2/002-0657946-6776816?ie=UTF8&s=books
>
> Why did he have to write such an expensive book?

It's called capitalism. Lyle had a product, decided on a price, and offers
it for sale. You are free to buy, or not buy, the book.

What are you, a freakin' Commie?

> It had better be damned good... If it doesn't work any better than the
> thigh master, I'll be ticked.

It's has worked well for many, including me, and has probably not worked
well for others.

It's not like you're risking your retirement account or a house
repossession. Think of all the money you'll save on the food you won't be
buying.

David

Curt James
August 22nd 06, 07:10 AM
Cohen wrote:
[...]

> It's not like you're risking your retirement account
> or a house repossession.

How do you know? Maybe she contributes just five cents each year to her
IRA account! And perhaps her mortgage payment would come up short to
the tune of, say, THE COST OF LYLE'S BOOK!

HA! Didn't think of THAT, did you?!

> Think of all the money you'll save on the food you won't
> be buying.

Damn. Okay, ya got me there.

--
Curt

Pez D Spencer
August 22nd 06, 09:32 AM
David Cohen wrote:
> "oregonchick" > wrote
> > Ok, I know this ain't alt.support.diet. But I guess I'm here because I
> > think I'll get more realistic advice and a good ass kicking... Here's the
> > thing. I'd like to lose 10 lbs. I'm female, 5'3" and weigh 138. I had a
> > baby in December, and I was sure by now I'd be back to prepregnancy
> > weight. I am doing a full body weight routine 3 times a week, and have
> > been for 3 months. I do cardio 4-5 times a week - 45+ minutes on the
> > elliptical. In the past month or so, I've been doing one long bike ride
> > (20-40 miles) about once every week in addition. My stamina is up, my
> > energy is up, I feel better, yadda yadda. But the damned scale hasn't
> > moved hardly at all..maybe 2 lbs. I average 1600-1800 calories per day.
> > I thought this was pretty reasonable with my level of activity lately.
> > But I guess not... or I'd be losing weight. I lost weight before at that
> > level. I'd love to think I was losing fat and gaining muscle, but while
> > my clothes are fitting looser, I haven't gone down a whole pants size.
> >
> > I know I'm doing something wrong. I'm the kind of impatient person that
> > gets frustrated and discouraged if I don't see SOME progress. It doesn't
> > help that I just got back from vacation and I have zero motivation. I'm
> > kind of tempted to try something like a fast, just for a week, to jump
> > start things again, I don't believe in fad diets or quick fixes, but I
> > need to get a handle on things again. What kind of results could I hope
> > to see on something like a protein sparing fast?
>
> Large amounts of fat lost with minimal muscle loss.
>
> Ironically, they call it a protein sparing modified fast. Go figure :)
>
> Buy the book:
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0967145643/sr=1-2/qid=1156222652/ref=pd_bbs_2/002-0657946-6776816?ie=UTF8&s=books
>
> David

lyle mcdonald was truly a fruitcake among fruitcakes.

what happened to him, anyway?

must've just gotten bored with posting...

Jen
August 22nd 06, 10:01 AM
"Curt James" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> oregonchick wrote:
> [...]
>
>> But it wants me to sign up for men's health newsleters
>> or something like that...
>
> Forget the newsletters. :o)
>
>> What about Lyle's book? It has good reviews on Amazon....
>> lol.
>
> I'll trust you on those Amazon reviews and although I'm unfamiliar with
> Lyle's book, I'll take Cohen's word on that recommendation.
>
>> Seriously, before I buy a book on a diet,
>
> Heck, ping me with your snail mail and I'll send you a copy! Just give
> the diet an honest shot and post a follow-up report to MFW, Betsy.
>


So Curt, has it worked for you? How much weight have you lost?

Jen

Tom Anderson
August 22nd 06, 12:41 PM
On Mon, 21 Aug 2006, oregonchick wrote:

> Ok, I know this ain't alt.support.diet. But I guess I'm here because I
> think I'll get more realistic advice and a good ass kicking... Here's the
> thing. I'd like to lose 10 lbs. I'm female, 5'3" and weigh 138. I had a
> baby in December, and I was sure by now I'd be back to prepregnancy weight.
> I am doing a full body weight routine 3 times a week, and have been for 3
> months. I do cardio 4-5 times a week - 45+ minutes on the elliptical. In
> the past month or so, I've been doing one long bike ride (20-40 miles) about
> once every week in addition. My stamina is up, my energy is up, I feel
> better, yadda yadda. But the damned scale hasn't moved hardly at all..maybe
> 2 lbs. I average 1600-1800 calories per day.

How about going to 1400-1600 calories per day, or even less? Or doing 60+
minutes on the crosstrainer, or doing two long bike rides a week?

It sounds like at present, your energy intake is more or less equal to
your energy output. To lose weight, you need it to be less than your
energy output. So, either decrease the input, or increase the output. Or
both.

Hmm. Maybe i should write a book on this and call it 'The First Law of
Thermodynamics Diet'. All with a picture of James Joule on the front:

http://www.biografiasyvidas.com/biografia/j/fotos/joule.jpg

tom

--
Don't ask me man, i didn't do it.

Pete
August 22nd 06, 01:57 PM
"Pez D Spencer" > schreef:

> lyle mcdonald was truly a fruitcake among fruitcakes.

But he knew his **** about training.

> what happened to him, anyway?

No idea.

----
Pete

The Queen of Cans and Jars
August 22nd 06, 02:32 PM
Curt James > wrote:

> Heck, ping me with your snail mail and I'll send you a copy!

So not a good idea. Please don't do this, Betsy.

OmManiPadmeOmelet
August 22nd 06, 03:05 PM
In article >,
"oregonchick" > wrote:

> Ok, I know this ain't alt.support.diet. But I guess I'm here because I
> think I'll get more realistic advice and a good ass kicking... Here's the
> thing. I'd like to lose 10 lbs. I'm female, 5'3" and weigh 138. I had a
> baby in December, and I was sure by now I'd be back to prepregnancy weight.
> I am doing a full body weight routine 3 times a week, and have been for 3
> months. I do cardio 4-5 times a week - 45+ minutes on the elliptical. In
> the past month or so, I've been doing one long bike ride (20-40 miles) about
> once every week in addition. My stamina is up, my energy is up, I feel
> better, yadda yadda. But the damned scale hasn't moved hardly at all..maybe
> 2 lbs. I average 1600-1800 calories per day. I thought this was pretty
> reasonable with my level of activity lately. But I guess not... or I'd be
> losing weight. I lost weight before at that level. I'd love to think I was
> losing fat and gaining muscle, but while my clothes are fitting looser, I
> haven't gone down a whole pants size.
>
> I know I'm doing something wrong. I'm the kind of impatient person that
> gets frustrated and discouraged if I don't see SOME progress. It doesn't
> help that I just got back from vacation and I have zero motivation. I'm
> kind of tempted to try something like a fast, just for a week, to jump start
> things again, I don't believe in fad diets or quick fixes, but I need to get
> a handle on things again. What kind of results could I hope to see on
> something like a protein sparing fast?
>
> Betsy

Forget about your weight... ;-)
What is your body fat percentage????

Muscle weighs more than fat.
How do you look naked in the mirror?
How do your clothes fit?

That's what counts, not numbers on a scale!!!!!
--
Peace!
Om

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch"
-- Jack Nicholson

OmManiPadmeOmelet
August 22nd 06, 03:07 PM
In article >,
"oregonchick" > wrote:

> > Large amounts of fat lost with minimal muscle loss.
> >
> > Ironically, they call it a protein sparing modified fast. Go figure :)
> >
> > Buy the book:
> > http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0967145643/sr=1-2/qid=1156222652/ref=pd_bbs
> > _2/002-0657946-6776816?ie=UTF8&s=books
> >
> > David
>
>
> Why did he have to write such an expensive book? It had better be damned
> good... If it doesn't work any better than the thigh master, I'll be
> ticked.

It's not expensive!

Sheesh!

I'm a Scott/Jew and even _I_ sprang for the book.

It was worth every penny....
--
Peace!
Om

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch"
-- Jack Nicholson

OmManiPadmeOmelet
August 22nd 06, 03:08 PM
In article >,
"David Cohen" > wrote:

> It's not like you're risking your retirement account or a house
> repossession. Think of all the money you'll save on the food you won't be
> buying.
>
> David

<snicker>

True dat. ;-)
--
Peace!
Om

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch"
-- Jack Nicholson

Pete
August 22nd 06, 03:13 PM
"OmManiPadmeOmelet" > schreef:

> Forget about your weight... ;-)
> What is your body fat percentage????

I believe some guy in this group has said something similair before...

> Muscle weighs more than fat.

True...

> How do you look naked in the mirror?

Well, not bad. Thank you..

----
Pete

oregonchick
August 22nd 06, 03:41 PM
"OmManiPadmeOmelet" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "oregonchick" > wrote:
>
>> > Large amounts of fat lost with minimal muscle loss.
>> >
>> > Ironically, they call it a protein sparing modified fast. Go figure :)
>> >
>> > Buy the book:
>> > http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0967145643/sr=1-2/qid=1156222652/ref=pd_bbs
>> > _2/002-0657946-6776816?ie=UTF8&s=books
>> >
>> > David
>>
>>
>> Why did he have to write such an expensive book? It had better be damned
>> good... If it doesn't work any better than the thigh master, I'll be
>> ticked.
>
> It's not expensive!
>
> Sheesh!
>
> I'm a Scott/Jew and even _I_ sprang for the book.
>
> It was worth every penny....

Ok, if it works, it's worth the $40. There are so many fad diets, I am just
skeptical. I understand it isn't an "easy" diet to maintain for very long,
Lyle himself says so. I have the willpower to do whatever it takes - and I
don't think my goals are unrealistic. If I could drop just 2 or 3 lbs on a
fast (of fat, not water or muscle), it would be enough for me to feel like I
was getting somewhere and it would renew my enthusiasm.

Betsy

oregonchick
August 22nd 06, 03:43 PM
"David Cohen" > wrote in message
et...
>
> "oregonchick" > wrote
>> "David Cohen" > wrote >>
>>> "oregonchick" > wrote
>>>> Ok, I know this ain't alt.support.diet. But I guess I'm here because I
>>>> think I'll get more realistic advice and a good ass kicking... Here's
>>>> the thing. I'd like to lose 10 lbs. I'm female, 5'3" and weigh 138.
>>>> I had a baby in December, and I was sure by now I'd be back to
>>>> prepregnancy weight. I am doing a full body weight routine 3 times a
>>>> week, and have been for 3 months. I do cardio 4-5 times a week - 45+
>>>> minutes on the elliptical. In the past month or so, I've been doing
>>>> one long bike ride (20-40 miles) about once every week in addition. My
>>>> stamina is up, my energy is up, I feel better, yadda yadda. But the
>>>> damned scale hasn't moved hardly at all..maybe 2 lbs. I average
>>>> 1600-1800 calories per day. I thought this was pretty reasonable with
>>>> my level of activity lately. But I guess not... or I'd be losing
>>>> weight. I lost weight before at that level. I'd love to think I was
>>>> losing fat and gaining muscle, but while my clothes are fitting looser,
>>>> I haven't gone down a whole pants size.
>>>>
>>>> I know I'm doing something wrong. I'm the kind of impatient person
>>>> that gets frustrated and discouraged if I don't see SOME progress. It
>>>> doesn't help that I just got back from vacation and I have zero
>>>> motivation. I'm kind of tempted to try something like a fast, just for
>>>> a week, to jump start things again, I don't believe in fad diets or
>>>> quick fixes, but I need to get a handle on things again. What kind of
>>>> results could I hope to see on something like a protein sparing fast?
>>>
>>> Large amounts of fat lost with minimal muscle loss.
>>>
>>> Ironically, they call it a protein sparing modified fast. Go figure :)
>>>
>>> Buy the book:
>>> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0967145643/sr=1-2/qid=1156222652/ref=pd_bbs_2/002-0657946-6776816?ie=UTF8&s=books
>>
>> Why did he have to write such an expensive book?
>
> It's called capitalism. Lyle had a product, decided on a price, and offers
> it for sale. You are free to buy, or not buy, the book.
>
> What are you, a freakin' Commie?
>
>> It had better be damned good... If it doesn't work any better than the
>> thigh master, I'll be ticked.
>
> It's has worked well for many, including me, and has probably not worked
> well for others.

Since you have personal experience with the diet, would you be willing to
share a bit about your experience? How much did you want to lose? Was the
diet terribly painful? How long were you on it? Did the hunger pains go
away after awhile?

I've never fasted before, and I just imagine feeling weak and faint for the
duration.

oregonchick
August 22nd 06, 03:45 PM
"OmManiPadmeOmelet" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "oregonchick" > wrote:
>
>> Ok, I know this ain't alt.support.diet. But I guess I'm here because I
>> think I'll get more realistic advice and a good ass kicking... Here's
>> the
>> thing. I'd like to lose 10 lbs. I'm female, 5'3" and weigh 138. I had
>> a
>> baby in December, and I was sure by now I'd be back to prepregnancy
>> weight.
>> I am doing a full body weight routine 3 times a week, and have been for 3
>> months. I do cardio 4-5 times a week - 45+ minutes on the elliptical.
>> In
>> the past month or so, I've been doing one long bike ride (20-40 miles)
>> about
>> once every week in addition. My stamina is up, my energy is up, I feel
>> better, yadda yadda. But the damned scale hasn't moved hardly at
>> all..maybe
>> 2 lbs. I average 1600-1800 calories per day. I thought this was pretty
>> reasonable with my level of activity lately. But I guess not... or I'd
>> be
>> losing weight. I lost weight before at that level. I'd love to think I
>> was
>> losing fat and gaining muscle, but while my clothes are fitting looser, I
>> haven't gone down a whole pants size.
>>
>> I know I'm doing something wrong. I'm the kind of impatient person that
>> gets frustrated and discouraged if I don't see SOME progress. It doesn't
>> help that I just got back from vacation and I have zero motivation. I'm
>> kind of tempted to try something like a fast, just for a week, to jump
>> start
>> things again, I don't believe in fad diets or quick fixes, but I need to
>> get
>> a handle on things again. What kind of results could I hope to see on
>> something like a protein sparing fast?
>>
>> Betsy
>
> Forget about your weight... ;-)
> What is your body fat percentage????

I haven't had it measured for about 2 months. But my clothes are only
marginally looser. I was a size 12, now my 10's are fitting pretty well.
But my waist has only lost about 1/2", and my thighs about 1/2", and my hips
about 1". Not really dramatic...

David Cohen
August 22nd 06, 04:21 PM
"oregonchick" > wrote
> "David Cohen" > wrote
>> "oregonchick" > wrote
>>> "David Cohen" > wrote >>
>>>> "oregonchick" > wrote
>>>>> Ok, I know this ain't alt.support.diet. But I guess I'm here because
>>>>> I think I'll get more realistic advice and a good ass kicking...
>>>>> Here's the thing. I'd like to lose 10 lbs. I'm female, 5'3" and
>>>>> weigh 138. I had a baby in December, and I was sure by now I'd be back
>>>>> to prepregnancy weight. I am doing a full body weight routine 3 times
>>>>> a week, and have been for 3 months. I do cardio 4-5 times a week -
>>>>> 45+ minutes on the elliptical. In the past month or so, I've been
>>>>> doing one long bike ride (20-40 miles) about once every week in
>>>>> addition. My stamina is up, my energy is up, I feel better, yadda
>>>>> yadda. But the damned scale hasn't moved hardly at all..maybe 2 lbs.
>>>>> I average 1600-1800 calories per day. I thought this was pretty
>>>>> reasonable with my level of activity lately. But I guess not... or
>>>>> I'd be losing weight. I lost weight before at that level. I'd love to
>>>>> think I was losing fat and gaining muscle, but while my clothes are
>>>>> fitting looser, I haven't gone down a whole pants size.
>>>>>
>>>>> I know I'm doing something wrong. I'm the kind of impatient person
>>>>> that gets frustrated and discouraged if I don't see SOME progress. It
>>>>> doesn't help that I just got back from vacation and I have zero
>>>>> motivation. I'm kind of tempted to try something like a fast, just
>>>>> for a week, to jump start things again, I don't believe in fad diets
>>>>> or quick fixes, but I need to get a handle on things again. What kind
>>>>> of results could I hope to see on something like a protein sparing
>>>>> fast?
>>>>
>>>> Large amounts of fat lost with minimal muscle loss.
>>>>
>>>> Ironically, they call it a protein sparing modified fast. Go figure :)
>>>>
>>>> Buy the book:
>>>> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0967145643/sr=1-2/qid=1156222652/ref=pd_bbs_2/002-0657946-6776816?ie=UTF8&s=books
>>>
>>> Why did he have to write such an expensive book?
>>
>> It's called capitalism. Lyle had a product, decided on a price, and
>> offers it for sale. You are free to buy, or not buy, the book.
>>
>> What are you, a freakin' Commie?
>>
>>> It had better be damned good... If it doesn't work any better than the
>>> thigh master, I'll be ticked.
>>
>> It's has worked well for many, including me, and has probably not worked
>> well for others.
>
> Since you have personal experience with the diet, would you be willing to
> share a bit about your experience? How much did you want to lose? Was
> the diet terribly painful? How long were you on it? Did the hunger pains
> go away after awhile?
>
> I've never fasted before, and I just imagine feeling weak and faint for
> the duration.

It's a "modified" fast. You eat a ****load of protein, a double ****load of
fibrous vegetables, and supplemental essential fatty acids.

I have now done a PSMF a half a dozen times. For me, it is an ideal diet. I
can maintain a lot of willpower for a short period of time, so I can do an
extreme diet for a few weeks to a few months, and do it as often as
necessary. I HATE eating a little under maintenence for a long period of
time, so, standard dieting sucks!

The first time, I went from the 260s and BF in the 30s, to the 190s and BF
in the low teens. Took a few months.

I'm a bit bigger than you. Your experiences will differ.

If you don't like it, sell the book to some fat friends.

David

Hobbes
August 22nd 06, 04:33 PM
In article >,
"oregonchick" > wrote:

> "David Cohen" > wrote in message
> et...
> >
> > "oregonchick" > wrote
> >> "David Cohen" > wrote >>
> >>> "oregonchick" > wrote
> >>>> Ok, I know this ain't alt.support.diet. But I guess I'm here because I
> >>>> think I'll get more realistic advice and a good ass kicking... Here's
> >>>> the thing. I'd like to lose 10 lbs. I'm female, 5'3" and weigh 138.
> >>>> I had a baby in December, and I was sure by now I'd be back to
> >>>> prepregnancy weight. I am doing a full body weight routine 3 times a
> >>>> week, and have been for 3 months. I do cardio 4-5 times a week - 45+
> >>>> minutes on the elliptical. In the past month or so, I've been doing
> >>>> one long bike ride (20-40 miles) about once every week in addition. My
> >>>> stamina is up, my energy is up, I feel better, yadda yadda. But the
> >>>> damned scale hasn't moved hardly at all..maybe 2 lbs. I average
> >>>> 1600-1800 calories per day. I thought this was pretty reasonable with
> >>>> my level of activity lately. But I guess not... or I'd be losing
> >>>> weight. I lost weight before at that level. I'd love to think I was
> >>>> losing fat and gaining muscle, but while my clothes are fitting looser,
> >>>> I haven't gone down a whole pants size.
> >>>>
> >>>> I know I'm doing something wrong. I'm the kind of impatient person
> >>>> that gets frustrated and discouraged if I don't see SOME progress. It
> >>>> doesn't help that I just got back from vacation and I have zero
> >>>> motivation. I'm kind of tempted to try something like a fast, just for
> >>>> a week, to jump start things again, I don't believe in fad diets or
> >>>> quick fixes, but I need to get a handle on things again. What kind of
> >>>> results could I hope to see on something like a protein sparing fast?
> >>>
> >>> Large amounts of fat lost with minimal muscle loss.
> >>>
> >>> Ironically, they call it a protein sparing modified fast. Go figure :)
> >>>
> >>> Buy the book:
> >>> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0967145643/sr=1-2/qid=1156222652/ref=pd_b
> >>> bs_2/002-0657946-6776816?ie=UTF8&s=books
> >>
> >> Why did he have to write such an expensive book?
> >
> > It's called capitalism. Lyle had a product, decided on a price, and offers
> > it for sale. You are free to buy, or not buy, the book.
> >
> > What are you, a freakin' Commie?
> >
> >> It had better be damned good... If it doesn't work any better than the
> >> thigh master, I'll be ticked.
> >
> > It's has worked well for many, including me, and has probably not worked
> > well for others.
>
> Since you have personal experience with the diet, would you be willing to
> share a bit about your experience? How much did you want to lose? Was the
> diet terribly painful? How long were you on it? Did the hunger pains go
> away after awhile?
>
> I've never fasted before, and I just imagine feeling weak and faint for the
> duration.
>
>

I've used diets like these to make weight for weightlifting and
powerlifting competitions.

It isn't fun. But it is the best of the quick weight loss plans. You are
initially hungry, but since you can eat protein you are able to sate the
appetite to a certain degree. I had no other problems. I was able to
continue to train. My energy levels weren't bad. Some people complain
about lack of mental focus, but I had no problems with concentration.

OTOH - I've been in a number of sports where making weight is crucial
and have done crazy things like dropping 14 lbs in 24 hrs. So this is a
pretty sane approach for me. (BTW - the 14 lbs was obviously water and
is not recommended for anyone.)

--
Keith

Will Brink
August 22nd 06, 05:06 PM
In article >, "oregonchick"
> wrote:

> Ok, I know this ain't alt.support.diet. But I guess I'm here because I
> think I'll get more realistic advice and a good ass kicking...


A good description yes.

> Here's the
> thing. I'd like to lose 10 lbs. I'm female, 5'3" and weigh 138. I had a
> baby in December, and I was sure by now I'd be back to prepregnancy weight.
> I am doing a full body weight routine 3 times a week, and have been for 3
> months. I do cardio 4-5 times a week - 45+ minutes on the elliptical. In
> the past month or so, I've been doing one long bike ride (20-40 miles) about
> once every week in addition. My stamina is up, my energy is up, I feel
> better, yadda yadda. But the damned scale hasn't moved hardly at all..maybe
> 2 lbs. I average 1600-1800 calories per day. I thought this was pretty
> reasonable with my level of activity lately. But I guess not... or I'd be
> losing weight. I lost weight before at that level. I'd love to think I was
> losing fat and gaining muscle, but while my clothes are fitting looser, I
> haven't gone down a whole pants size.

Only one way to know, and you aint doing it. Get bodyfat tester such as an
accumeasure or others. Test BF, see what happens.

>
> I know I'm doing something wrong. I'm the kind of impatient person that
> gets frustrated and discouraged if I don't see SOME progress. It doesn't
> help that I just got back from vacation and I have zero motivation. I'm
> kind of tempted to try something like a fast, just for a week, to jump start
> things again, I don't believe in fad diets or quick fixes, but I need to get
> a handle on things again. What kind of results could I hope to see on
> something like a protein sparing fast?

Im not a fan.
>
> Betsy

oregonchick
August 22nd 06, 05:38 PM
"David Cohen" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> "oregonchick" > wrote
>> "David Cohen" > wrote
>>> "oregonchick" > wrote
>>>> "David Cohen" > wrote >>
>>>>> "oregonchick" > wrote
>>>>>> Ok, I know this ain't alt.support.diet. But I guess I'm here because
>>>>>> I think I'll get more realistic advice and a good ass kicking...
>>>>>> Here's the thing. I'd like to lose 10 lbs. I'm female, 5'3" and
>>>>>> weigh 138. I had a baby in December, and I was sure by now I'd be
>>>>>> back to prepregnancy weight. I am doing a full body weight routine 3
>>>>>> times a week, and have been for 3 months. I do cardio 4-5 times a
>>>>>> week - 45+ minutes on the elliptical. In the past month or so, I've
>>>>>> been doing one long bike ride (20-40 miles) about once every week in
>>>>>> addition. My stamina is up, my energy is up, I feel better, yadda
>>>>>> yadda. But the damned scale hasn't moved hardly at all..maybe 2 lbs.
>>>>>> I average 1600-1800 calories per day. I thought this was pretty
>>>>>> reasonable with my level of activity lately. But I guess not... or
>>>>>> I'd be losing weight. I lost weight before at that level. I'd love
>>>>>> to think I was losing fat and gaining muscle, but while my clothes
>>>>>> are fitting looser, I haven't gone down a whole pants size.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I know I'm doing something wrong. I'm the kind of impatient person
>>>>>> that gets frustrated and discouraged if I don't see SOME progress.
>>>>>> It doesn't help that I just got back from vacation and I have zero
>>>>>> motivation. I'm kind of tempted to try something like a fast, just
>>>>>> for a week, to jump start things again, I don't believe in fad diets
>>>>>> or quick fixes, but I need to get a handle on things again. What
>>>>>> kind of results could I hope to see on something like a protein
>>>>>> sparing fast?
>>>>>
>>>>> Large amounts of fat lost with minimal muscle loss.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ironically, they call it a protein sparing modified fast. Go figure :)
>>>>>
>>>>> Buy the book:
>>>>> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0967145643/sr=1-2/qid=1156222652/ref=pd_bbs_2/002-0657946-6776816?ie=UTF8&s=books
>>>>
>>>> Why did he have to write such an expensive book?
>>>
>>> It's called capitalism. Lyle had a product, decided on a price, and
>>> offers it for sale. You are free to buy, or not buy, the book.
>>>
>>> What are you, a freakin' Commie?
>>>
>>>> It had better be damned good... If it doesn't work any better than the
>>>> thigh master, I'll be ticked.
>>>
>>> It's has worked well for many, including me, and has probably not worked
>>> well for others.
>>
>> Since you have personal experience with the diet, would you be willing to
>> share a bit about your experience? How much did you want to lose? Was
>> the diet terribly painful? How long were you on it? Did the hunger
>> pains go away after awhile?
>>
>> I've never fasted before, and I just imagine feeling weak and faint for
>> the duration.
>
> It's a "modified" fast. You eat a ****load of protein, a double ****load
> of fibrous vegetables, and supplemental essential fatty acids.
>
> I have now done a PSMF a half a dozen times. For me, it is an ideal diet.
> I can maintain a lot of willpower for a short period of time, so I can do
> an extreme diet for a few weeks to a few months, and do it as often as
> necessary. I HATE eating a little under maintenence for a long period of
> time, so, standard dieting sucks!

That is where I really struggle. If I'm only maintaining a couple hundred
calorie deficit, then have a "splurge" meal, or a couple beers, in one week,
it can easily become a wash. Then, no progress, frustration, give up.
>
> The first time, I went from the 260s and BF in the 30s, to the 190s and BF
> in the low teens. Took a few months.

I need to lose 10 lbs of fat. But even if I lose 5, I will look and feel
way better.
>
> I'm a bit bigger than you. Your experiences will differ.
>
> If you don't like it, sell the book to some fat friends.

Hmm.. I have several of those!

Pez D Spencer
August 22nd 06, 05:45 PM
Pete wrote:
> "Pez D Spencer" > schreef:
>
> > lyle mcdonald was truly a fruitcake among fruitcakes.
>
> But he knew his **** about training.
>
> > what happened to him, anyway?
>
> No idea.
>
> ----
> Pete

maybe you didn't see the pics i saw of him...he was a fat ****. maybe
he got in shape later, but who knows.

Jason Earl
August 22nd 06, 05:51 PM
"David Cohen" > writes:

> "oregonchick" > wrote
>> Ok, I know this ain't alt.support.diet. But I guess I'm here because I
>> think I'll get more realistic advice and a good ass kicking... Here's the
>> thing. I'd like to lose 10 lbs. I'm female, 5'3" and weigh 138. I had a
>> baby in December, and I was sure by now I'd be back to prepregnancy
>> weight. I am doing a full body weight routine 3 times a week, and have
>> been for 3 months. I do cardio 4-5 times a week - 45+ minutes on the
>> elliptical. In the past month or so, I've been doing one long bike ride
>> (20-40 miles) about once every week in addition. My stamina is up, my
>> energy is up, I feel better, yadda yadda. But the damned scale hasn't
>> moved hardly at all..maybe 2 lbs. I average 1600-1800 calories per day.
>> I thought this was pretty reasonable with my level of activity lately.
>> But I guess not... or I'd be losing weight. I lost weight before at that
>> level. I'd love to think I was losing fat and gaining muscle, but while
>> my clothes are fitting looser, I haven't gone down a whole pants size.
>>
>> I know I'm doing something wrong. I'm the kind of impatient person that
>> gets frustrated and discouraged if I don't see SOME progress. It doesn't
>> help that I just got back from vacation and I have zero motivation. I'm
>> kind of tempted to try something like a fast, just for a week, to jump
>> start things again, I don't believe in fad diets or quick fixes, but I
>> need to get a handle on things again. What kind of results could I hope
>> to see on something like a protein sparing fast?
>
> Large amounts of fat lost with minimal muscle loss.
>
> Ironically, they call it a protein sparing modified fast. Go figure :)
>
> Buy the book:
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0967145643/sr=1-2/qid=1156222652/ref=pd_bbs_2/002-0657946-6776816?ie=UTF8&s=books
>
> David

I noticed that Lyle has written quite a few books. Is this the one to
get?

Jason

JMW
August 22nd 06, 06:08 PM
Jason Earl > wrote:

>"David Cohen" > writes:
>
>> "oregonchick" > wrote
>>> Ok, I know this ain't alt.support.diet. But I guess I'm here because I
>>> think I'll get more realistic advice and a good ass kicking... Here's the
>>> thing. I'd like to lose 10 lbs. I'm female, 5'3" and weigh 138. I had a
>>> baby in December, and I was sure by now I'd be back to prepregnancy
>>> weight. I am doing a full body weight routine 3 times a week, and have
>>> been for 3 months. I do cardio 4-5 times a week - 45+ minutes on the
>>> elliptical. In the past month or so, I've been doing one long bike ride
>>> (20-40 miles) about once every week in addition. My stamina is up, my
>>> energy is up, I feel better, yadda yadda. But the damned scale hasn't
>>> moved hardly at all..maybe 2 lbs. I average 1600-1800 calories per day.
>>> I thought this was pretty reasonable with my level of activity lately.
>>> But I guess not... or I'd be losing weight. I lost weight before at that
>>> level. I'd love to think I was losing fat and gaining muscle, but while
>>> my clothes are fitting looser, I haven't gone down a whole pants size.
>>>
>>> I know I'm doing something wrong. I'm the kind of impatient person that
>>> gets frustrated and discouraged if I don't see SOME progress. It doesn't
>>> help that I just got back from vacation and I have zero motivation. I'm
>>> kind of tempted to try something like a fast, just for a week, to jump
>>> start things again, I don't believe in fad diets or quick fixes, but I
>>> need to get a handle on things again. What kind of results could I hope
>>> to see on something like a protein sparing fast?
>>
>> Large amounts of fat lost with minimal muscle loss.
>>
>> Ironically, they call it a protein sparing modified fast. Go figure :)
>>
>> Buy the book:
>> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0967145643/sr=1-2/qid=1156222652/ref=pd_bbs_2/002-0657946-6776816?ie=UTF8&s=books
>>
>> David
>
>I noticed that Lyle has written quite a few books. Is this the one to
>get?

Cohen is a Lyle flankie. He'll tell you to buy 'em all.

OmManiPadmeOmelet
August 22nd 06, 06:22 PM
In article >,
"oregonchick" > wrote:

> > Forget about your weight... ;-)
> > What is your body fat percentage????
>
> I haven't had it measured for about 2 months. But my clothes are only
> marginally looser. I was a size 12, now my 10's are fitting pretty well.
> But my waist has only lost about 1/2", and my thighs about 1/2", and my hips
> about 1". Not really dramatic...

Just remember that the closer you get to goal, the more difficult it
will be. It's not going to happen overnight. The PSMF diet might be for
you. It's worth a shot anyway. It works well for me, if I can stick with
it. ;-)
--
Peace!
Om

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch"
-- Jack Nicholson

Pez D Spencer
August 22nd 06, 06:32 PM
Jason Earl wrote:
>
> I noticed that Lyle has written quite a few books. Is this the one to
> get?
>
> Jason

lyle mcdonald's only claim to fame was acting like an expert when he
repackaged the atkins diet years after its resurgence as mauro di
pasquale's "anabolic diet."

he managed to ride that wave.

seemed like a nice guy, but just another armchair theorist.

David Cohen
August 22nd 06, 06:34 PM
"JMW" > wrote
> Jason Earl > wrote:
>>"David Cohen" > writes:
>>> "oregonchick" > wrote
>>>> Ok, I know this ain't alt.support.diet. But I guess I'm here because I
>>>> think I'll get more realistic advice and a good ass kicking... Here's
>>>> the
>>>> thing. I'd like to lose 10 lbs. I'm female, 5'3" and weigh 138. I
>>>> had a
>>>> baby in December, and I was sure by now I'd be back to prepregnancy
>>>> weight. I am doing a full body weight routine 3 times a week, and have
>>>> been for 3 months. I do cardio 4-5 times a week - 45+ minutes on the
>>>> elliptical. In the past month or so, I've been doing one long bike
>>>> ride
>>>> (20-40 miles) about once every week in addition. My stamina is up, my
>>>> energy is up, I feel better, yadda yadda. But the damned scale hasn't
>>>> moved hardly at all..maybe 2 lbs. I average 1600-1800 calories per
>>>> day.
>>>> I thought this was pretty reasonable with my level of activity lately.
>>>> But I guess not... or I'd be losing weight. I lost weight before at
>>>> that
>>>> level. I'd love to think I was losing fat and gaining muscle, but
>>>> while
>>>> my clothes are fitting looser, I haven't gone down a whole pants size.
>>>>
>>>> I know I'm doing something wrong. I'm the kind of impatient person
>>>> that
>>>> gets frustrated and discouraged if I don't see SOME progress. It
>>>> doesn't
>>>> help that I just got back from vacation and I have zero motivation.
>>>> I'm
>>>> kind of tempted to try something like a fast, just for a week, to jump
>>>> start things again, I don't believe in fad diets or quick fixes, but I
>>>> need to get a handle on things again. What kind of results could I
>>>> hope
>>>> to see on something like a protein sparing fast?
>>>
>>> Large amounts of fat lost with minimal muscle loss.
>>>
>>> Ironically, they call it a protein sparing modified fast. Go figure :)
>>>
>>> Buy the book:
>>> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0967145643/sr=1-2/qid=1156222652/ref=pd_bbs_2/002-0657946-6776816?ie=UTF8&s=books
>>>
>>> David
>>
>>I noticed that Lyle has written quite a few books. Is this the one to
>>get?
>
> Cohen is a Lyle flankie. He'll tell you to buy 'em all.

Buy 'em all.

I like to be predictable.

But, actually, while they're all good for their intended purposes, "The
Rapid Fat Loss Handbook" is the one that worked for me, for my purposes, for
my psychological makeup.

How successful one would be on any of the other programs, in the other
books, I don't know. I can only testify to the effectiveness of one of them,
for me.

David

David Cohen
August 22nd 06, 06:42 PM
"DZ" > wrote
> Tom Anderson > wrote:
>> oregonchick wrote:
>>> Ok, I know this ain't alt.support.diet. But I guess I'm here
>>> because I think I'll get more realistic advice and a good ass
>>> kicking... Here's the thing. I'd like to lose 10 lbs. I'm
>>> female, 5'3" and weigh 138. I had a baby in December, and I was
>>> sure by now I'd be back to prepregnancy weight. I am doing a full
>>> body weight routine 3 times a week, and have been for 3 months. I
>>> do cardio 4-5 times a week - 45+ minutes on the elliptical. In the
>>> past month or so, I've been doing one long bike ride (20-40 miles)
>>> about once every week in addition. My stamina is up, my energy is
>>> up, I feel better, yadda yadda. But the damned scale hasn't moved
>>> hardly at all..maybe 2 lbs. I average 1600-1800 calories per day.
>>
>> How about going to 1400-1600 calories per day, or even less? Or doing 60+
>> minutes on the crosstrainer, or doing two long bike rides a week?
>
> At calories that low it would be wise to watch that one is not going
> deficient in any of the essential nutrients. It sounds like CRON
> (Calorie Restriction with Optimal Nutrition) which may require the
> Cohen-style supplementation.

You say that like 34 tablets/pills/capsules, 2 liquids, and 6 powders, per
day, are a lot.

Doesn't everybody do similar?

David

oregonchick
August 22nd 06, 07:18 PM
"OmManiPadmeOmelet" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "oregonchick" > wrote:
>
>> > Forget about your weight... ;-)
>> > What is your body fat percentage????
>>
>> I haven't had it measured for about 2 months. But my clothes are only
>> marginally looser. I was a size 12, now my 10's are fitting pretty well.
>> But my waist has only lost about 1/2", and my thighs about 1/2", and my
>> hips
>> about 1". Not really dramatic...
>
> Just remember that the closer you get to goal, the more difficult it
> will be. It's not going to happen overnight. The PSMF diet might be for
> you. It's worth a shot anyway. It works well for me, if I can stick with
> it. ;-)

Thanks. I'm not looking to drop all the weight via a fast. Just a couple
lbs. I just need a jumpstart...

Pez D Spencer
August 22nd 06, 07:24 PM
DZ wrote:
>
> I refuse to answer this question. For those of us with the funny
> accent, either too much or too little can be grounds for deportation,
> even if it's just vitamin C.

on the subject of vitamin c: there seems to be an idea out there
floating around that more is better no matter what the amount...even to
the point of taking 10+ grams per day. this is a concept that was
perpetuated by the brilliant nobel prize winning chemist linus pauling.

originally, pauling suggested 250 mgs per day, but slowly increased his
recommendation over the years to the point where he was personally
taking 18 grams per day.

i read two of his books when i was younger, and thought that his
recommendations for high doses of vitamin c was sound. over a year
ago, i finally tested his theory by taking 10-20 grams of vitamin c
crystals per day for 8 months straight.

what i can tell you is that it depressed my immune system to the point
where i was falling severely ill roughly every three weeks. i couldn't
believe it. wasn't vitamin c supposed to be good for the immune
system? so, i looked over my research again, because i remembered one
research paper that, unlike every other article, suggested that high
vitamin c intake can suppress the immune system. to me, the size of
the test group was too small to be significant, but, from my own
experiment, i believe the conclusions to be accurate. (the full
article is available for download here:
http://intl.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/30/7/1077


American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Vol 30, 1077-1081, Copyright
1977 by The American Society for Clinical Nutrition, Inc


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ORIGINAL RESEARCH COMMUNICATIONS


Effect of mega doses of vitamin C on bactericidal ativity of leukocytes
PG Shilotri and KS Bhat


Effect of ingesting mega doses of ascorbic acid was studied on the
leukocyte function in five normal human subjects. During the first 15
days the subjects received daily supplements of 200 mg of ascorbic
acid, and during the next 2 weeks they were given 2 g of vitamin C per
day. Supplementation of 200 mg as well as 2 g of ascorbic acid
stimulated hexose monophosphate shunt activity of resting leukocytes
indicating an increase in resting metabolism. Intakes of 200 mg of
ascorbic acid per day did not affect bacterial killing by leukocytes.
On the other hand, daily intakes of 2 g of ascorbic acid for 2 weeks
significantly impaired bactericidal activity. Four weeks after
withdrawal of the viatmin supplementation, bactericidal activity
returned to normal.

Jason Earl
August 22nd 06, 07:44 PM
JMW > writes:

> Jason Earl > wrote:
>>I noticed that Lyle has written quite a few books. Is this the one
>>to get?
>
> Cohen is a Lyle flankie. He'll tell you to buy 'em all.

Isn't it "flunkie?" I'm just curious as it seems that I have seen
this particular spelling a couple of times now.

I tend to take a very predictable tack when fishing for advice on
reading material. Once I have identified an author whose work I am
interested in sampling I ask someone that is a fan of the author for a
good starting point.

Most authors with more than one book to their credit tend to have one
book which is considered their magnum opus. Either that, or they have
a book that is considered the best place to start for newbies.
Generally speaking, I have found that it saves time and energy if you
take the time to learn from someone else's experience. Especially if
the someone in question can be trusted.

Jason

OmManiPadmeOmelet
August 22nd 06, 07:52 PM
In article >,
"David Cohen" > wrote:

> "DZ" > wrote
> > Tom Anderson > wrote:
> >> oregonchick wrote:
> >>> Ok, I know this ain't alt.support.diet. But I guess I'm here
> >>> because I think I'll get more realistic advice and a good ass
> >>> kicking... Here's the thing. I'd like to lose 10 lbs. I'm
> >>> female, 5'3" and weigh 138. I had a baby in December, and I was
> >>> sure by now I'd be back to prepregnancy weight. I am doing a full
> >>> body weight routine 3 times a week, and have been for 3 months. I
> >>> do cardio 4-5 times a week - 45+ minutes on the elliptical. In the
> >>> past month or so, I've been doing one long bike ride (20-40 miles)
> >>> about once every week in addition. My stamina is up, my energy is
> >>> up, I feel better, yadda yadda. But the damned scale hasn't moved
> >>> hardly at all..maybe 2 lbs. I average 1600-1800 calories per day.
> >>
> >> How about going to 1400-1600 calories per day, or even less? Or doing 60+
> >> minutes on the crosstrainer, or doing two long bike rides a week?
> >
> > At calories that low it would be wise to watch that one is not going
> > deficient in any of the essential nutrients. It sounds like CRON
> > (Calorie Restriction with Optimal Nutrition) which may require the
> > Cohen-style supplementation.
>
> You say that like 34 tablets/pills/capsules, 2 liquids, and 6 powders, per
> day, are a lot.
>
> Doesn't everybody do similar?
>
> David

<lol> I hate to admit it, but I can relate to that. ;-)
--
Peace!
Om

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch"
-- Jack Nicholson

OmManiPadmeOmelet
August 22nd 06, 07:53 PM
In article >,
DZ > wrote:

> > You say that like 34 tablets/pills/capsules, 2 liquids, and 6 powders, per
> > day, are a lot.
>
> Due to anatomy of the human brain, anything more than about three
> is "a lot".
>
> > Doesn't everybody do similar?
>
> I refuse to answer this question. For those of us with the funny
> accent, either too much or too little can be grounds for deportation,
> even if it's just vitamin C.

Not sure why, but that struck me as hilariously funny...

Thanks!

Laughter is good for an endorphin fix.
--
Peace!
Om

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch"
-- Jack Nicholson

Jason Earl
August 22nd 06, 07:55 PM
"David Cohen" > writes:

> "JMW" > wrote
>> Jason Earl > wrote:

<snip>

>>>I noticed that Lyle has written quite a few books. Is this the one
>>>to get?
>>
>> Cohen is a Lyle flankie. He'll tell you to buy 'em all.
>
> Buy 'em all.
>
> I like to be predictable.
>
> But, actually, while they're all good for their intended purposes,
> "The Rapid Fat Loss Handbook" is the one that worked for me, for my
> purposes, for my psychological makeup.
>
> How successful one would be on any of the other programs, in the
> other books, I don't know. I can only testify to the effectiveness
> of one of them, for me.
>
> David

Thanks David. As I mentioned in my response to JMW I am basically
fishing for a place to start on Lyle's work. I've heard good things
about him from a number of sources, and I am naturally curious. I'm
not even sure when I would get around to reading his book, but since
the subject came up...

I certainly realize that diet and nutrition is very individual. My
own weight loss has been slow with an average loss of about 10 pounds
per year, so this sort of "crash" diet might not fit my temperament
very well. Still, learning is pretty much always a good thing, even
if all you learn is what *doesn't* work for you.

Jason

OmManiPadmeOmelet
August 22nd 06, 07:56 PM
In article >,
"oregonchick" > wrote:

> "OmManiPadmeOmelet" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >,
> > "oregonchick" > wrote:
> >
> >> > Forget about your weight... ;-)
> >> > What is your body fat percentage????
> >>
> >> I haven't had it measured for about 2 months. But my clothes are only
> >> marginally looser. I was a size 12, now my 10's are fitting pretty well.
> >> But my waist has only lost about 1/2", and my thighs about 1/2", and my
> >> hips
> >> about 1". Not really dramatic...
> >
> > Just remember that the closer you get to goal, the more difficult it
> > will be. It's not going to happen overnight. The PSMF diet might be for
> > you. It's worth a shot anyway. It works well for me, if I can stick with
> > it. ;-)
>
> Thanks. I'm not looking to drop all the weight via a fast. Just a couple
> lbs. I just need a jumpstart...

Take a laxative...... ;-)

Just kidding!

Seriously, at your point, if you can lose two lbs. of REAL weight in 2
weeks, that'd probably be about right?

Do others concur?

Do have your thyroid checked just for grins.
--
Peace!
Om

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch"
-- Jack Nicholson

OmManiPadmeOmelet
August 22nd 06, 07:59 PM
In article >,
Jason Earl > wrote:

> Isn't it "flunkie?" I'm just curious as it seems that I have seen
> this particular spelling a couple of times now.

IIRC, "Flankie" is an old inside list joke based on a mis-spelling by a
list member _ages_ ago.

If you have the patience and time, you can probably google it. I don't.
My bedtime is in 2 minutes...
--
Peace!
Om

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch"
-- Jack Nicholson

Curt James
August 22nd 06, 08:13 PM
Jen wrote:
[...]

re The Abs Diet

> So Curt, has it worked for you?

I purchased the book for its exercise and nutrition advice and, yes, it
has worked for me.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v108/curt_james/MFW/elgordito.jpg

> How much weight have you lost?

However, I've actually gained weight as my muscle mass has increased.
(THAAAAAT'S WHAT THEY ALL SAY!) And muscle mass is my main goal at this
time.

My cold (no pump) flexed biceps measurement is 14 1/2" which is a
measurement I hadn't seen since I was a teenager. And I give credit, in
part, to the influence of this newsgroup. I weigh 187 lbs. after my
oatmeal, fat-free milk, and a few gulps of orange juice.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v108/curt_james/MFW/B.jpg

And with The Abs Diet, the continued camaraderie of MFW, and, yeah,
yours truly actually getting to the gym, I know I can continue to
improve.

> Jen

--
Curt

Jason Earl
August 22nd 06, 08:18 PM
DZ > writes:

> David Cohen > wrote:
>> "DZ" wrote:
>>> Tom Anderson > wrote:
>>>> oregonchick wrote:
>>>>> Ok, I know this ain't alt.support.diet. But I guess I'm here
>>>>> because I think I'll get more realistic advice and a good ass
>>>>> kicking... Here's the thing. I'd like to lose 10 lbs. I'm
>>>>> female, 5'3" and weigh 138. I had a baby in December, and I was
>>>>> sure by now I'd be back to prepregnancy weight. I am doing a full
>>>>> body weight routine 3 times a week, and have been for 3 months. I
>>>>> do cardio 4-5 times a week - 45+ minutes on the elliptical. In the
>>>>> past month or so, I've been doing one long bike ride (20-40 miles)
>>>>> about once every week in addition. My stamina is up, my energy is
>>>>> up, I feel better, yadda yadda. But the damned scale hasn't moved
>>>>> hardly at all..maybe 2 lbs. I average 1600-1800 calories per day.
>>>>
>>>> How about going to 1400-1600 calories per day, or even less? Or doing 60+
>>>> minutes on the crosstrainer, or doing two long bike rides a week?
>>>
>>> At calories that low it would be wise to watch that one is not going
>>> deficient in any of the essential nutrients. It sounds like CRON
>>> (Calorie Restriction with Optimal Nutrition) which may require the
>>> Cohen-style supplementation.
>>
>> You say that like 34 tablets/pills/capsules, 2 liquids, and 6
>> powders, per day, are a lot.
>
> Due to anatomy of the human brain, anything more than about three is
> "a lot".
>
>> Doesn't everybody do similar?
>
> I refuse to answer this question. For those of us with the funny
> accent, either too much or too little can be grounds for
> deportation, even if it's just vitamin C.

Another excellent post DZ.

Jason

Jason Earl
August 22nd 06, 08:21 PM
OmManiPadmeOmelet > writes:

> In article >,
> Jason Earl > wrote:
>
>> Isn't it "flunkie?" I'm just curious as it seems that I have seen
>> this particular spelling a couple of times now.
>
> IIRC, "Flankie" is an old inside list joke based on a mis-spelling
> by a list member _ages_ ago.
>
> If you have the patience and time, you can probably google it. I
> don't. My bedtime is in 2 minutes...

That makes sense. Once could have been a misspelling, but I was
pretty sure I had seen it several times.

Jason

Curt James
August 22nd 06, 08:38 PM
The Queen of Dis and Gruntled wrote:
> Curt James wrote:
>
> > Heck, ping me with your snail mail and I'll send you a copy!
>
> So not a good idea. Please don't do this, <snip>.

Hey, it'd save me $10.88 and postage to wherever - make it a work
address or some big bouncer-type guy's address if I get your
mean-spirited drift, Queen.

Regardless, let me remind you, Queen, that you are the one who
initiated our email exchanges. You were flattering in your initial
emails, in fact. Not once did you comment on any dissatisfaction or
discomfort wrt my replies. Not until after you'd made new friends and
then posted your complaint in a response here in MFW.

Warn all you want, but I'm simply offering an option. I'll even erase
the requirements on that initial offer. And I'd offer the same to
Jason, but he said he's happy with his current DZ-inspired course of
action.

On top of that, I've offered you advice in the past which you've gladly
taken.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.bodyart/msg/a7aeac1247deacc9
aka http://tinyurl.com/nq2dj

Funny, that.

--
Curt

oregonchick
August 22nd 06, 08:38 PM
"OmManiPadmeOmelet" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "oregonchick" > wrote:
>
>> "OmManiPadmeOmelet" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > In article >,
>> > "oregonchick" > wrote:
>> >
>> >> > Forget about your weight... ;-)
>> >> > What is your body fat percentage????
>> >>
>> >> I haven't had it measured for about 2 months. But my clothes are only
>> >> marginally looser. I was a size 12, now my 10's are fitting pretty
>> >> well.
>> >> But my waist has only lost about 1/2", and my thighs about 1/2", and
>> >> my
>> >> hips
>> >> about 1". Not really dramatic...
>> >
>> > Just remember that the closer you get to goal, the more difficult it
>> > will be. It's not going to happen overnight. The PSMF diet might be for
>> > you. It's worth a shot anyway. It works well for me, if I can stick
>> > with
>> > it. ;-)
>>
>> Thanks. I'm not looking to drop all the weight via a fast. Just a
>> couple
>> lbs. I just need a jumpstart...
>
> Take a laxative...... ;-)

Um, that would be SOME TURD.

>
> Just kidding!
>
> Seriously, at your point, if you can lose two lbs. of REAL weight in 2
> weeks, that'd probably be about right?
>
> Do others concur?
>
> Do have your thyroid checked just for grins.

Thinkin' about it. Hubby just found out he has subclinical hypo. Not that
it'd rub off or anything. If this fast doesn't do it, I'll be getting some
labs done.

Jason Earl
August 22nd 06, 08:43 PM
DZ > writes:

> Pez D Spencer > wrote:
>> on the subject of vitamin c: there seems to be an idea out there
>> floating around that more is better no matter what the amount...even to
>> the point of taking 10+ grams per day. this is a concept that was
>> perpetuated by the brilliant nobel prize winning chemist linus pauling.
>>
>> originally, pauling suggested 250 mgs per day, but slowly increased his
>> recommendation over the years to the point where he was personally
>> taking 18 grams per day.
>>
>> i read two of his books when i was younger, and thought that his
>> recommendations for high doses of vitamin c was sound. over a year
>> ago, i finally tested his theory by taking 10-20 grams of vitamin c
>> crystals per day for 8 months straight.
>>
>> what i can tell you is that it depressed my immune system to the point
>> where i was falling severely ill roughly every three weeks. i couldn't
>> believe it. wasn't vitamin c supposed to be good for the immune
>> system? so, i looked over my research again, because i remembered one
>> research paper that, unlike every other article, suggested that high
>> vitamin c intake can suppress the immune system.
>
> Ok thanks. Maybe I'll look for who is citing this and in what context
> (there have been 40 citations since 1977).
>
>> to me, the size of the test group was too small to be significant,
>
> They also misspelled "activity" as "ativity" in the title. But I'm
> going to forgive it. Last year we wrote a paper that had a word
> "large" in the title, which sounded impressive and stuff. But then I
> realized that at the time the paper was accepted, it was a LaTeX
> formatting command, "\Large", that I put there to indicate the start
> of a large size font. That was merged as a word into the originally
> somewhat humbler title by mistake during the typesetting. I have to
> say it worked out better this way.
>
> DZ

I lurk on comp.text.tex and so a LaTeX joke on mfw goes over well.

Jason

Jason Earl
August 22nd 06, 08:53 PM
"Curt James" > writes:

<snip>

> Warn all you want, but I'm simply offering an option. I'll even
> erase the requirements on that initial offer. And I'd offer the same
> to Jason, but he said he's happy with his current DZ-inspired course
> of action.

I'm happy for now, because it is meeting my goals and is easy, but I
like to mix things up. I also like reading about this sort of stuff
for fun. Even if I don't use the program I will almost certainly
learn something.

Besides, the book apparently costs less than $12. Save your postage,
I'll pick up a copy at Wal-Mart.

What's more, I'd be happy to give you my address, if you were
interested. Heck, if you are ever in Utah, look me up. You just have
to promise not to show your nipple rings to my kids :).

Jason

Curt James
August 22nd 06, 09:37 PM
Jason Earl wrote:
> "Curt James" writes:
[...]

> > <snip> I'd offer the same to Jason, but he said he's happy with
> > his current DZ-inspired course of action.
>
> I'm happy for now, because it is meeting my goals and is easy, but
> I like to mix things up. I also like reading about this sort of stuff
> for fun.

Likewise.

> Even if I don't use the program I will almost certainly learn something.
>
> Besides, the book apparently costs less than $12. Save your postage,
> I'll pick up a copy at Wal-Mart.

Again, I like the writing style. Entertaining and informative.

> What's more, I'd be happy to give you my address, if you were
> interested. Heck, if you are ever in Utah, look me up.

Noted. :o)

> You just have to promise not to show your nipple rings to my kids :).

It's a promise.

Actually, I taught summer school and as one of the activities we took
the students to the pool. I wore a pair of American Eagle swim trunks -
to the knee, none of the European (or '70s U.S.) Speedo action here -
so the tattoo around my calf was exposed, but I wore a tight tank top
covered by a sleeveless t-shirt over my torso. So far as the students
are concerned, I don't HAVE nipples much less piercings.

I love the district where I work, however. Piercing and tattoo-friendly
to be sure. Security guards with neck and hand tattoos, lunch ladies
with pierced eyebrows and nose studs, teachers with visible tattoos on
ankles, wrists, etc.

In fact, I was interviewed and hired with 2 gauge holes in each
earlobe. The typical earring is about 14 or 16 gauge. A smaller number
equals a bigger hole, so you can visualize (not that you'd especially
want to) the size of the hole in my ear as the interview proceeded.

Otoh, "art people" are almost expected to be somewhat eccentric.
Despite the extra holes in my ears, I'm actually what I'd call more
conservative than many of my fellow teachers. Plus, as I don't smoke or
drink, some might consider me a regular stick in the mud.

The "no" drinking policy is a new twist of the last few months with one
and a half Budweisers during the recent camping trip and one shot
purchased for me on my birthday during that time. Cohen mentioned money
saved wrt not buying food? HA! Cut the alcohol from your budget and
there's plenty to spend on additional reading material. :o)

OT fitness and weights, last night I purchased _The New Drawing on the
Right Side of the Brain Workbook_ by Betty Edwards in anticipation of
the new school year. Lots of interesting exercises, plus the text is
presented in a lesson plan format. Bonus! I'm still enjoying my summer
vacation right now, though.

> Jason

--
Curt

Neil Gendzwill
August 22nd 06, 09:40 PM
Jason Earl wrote:
>
> Most authors with more than one book to their credit tend to have one
> book which is considered their magnum opus. Either that, or they have
> a book that is considered the best place to start for newbies.

I haven't read any of Lyle's stuff but IIRC each of the books is
targetted to a different audience. The one under discussion is about a
crash diet but he's done a couple of others, each on different style
diets and for different audiences. So you might get the wrong one for
you even if it's considered his magnum opus.

I suggest you visit his website and check out the descriptions yourself.
You can even ask him questions directly on the forum, if it's still up
(haven't been there in a while). The site is something like
bodyrecomposition.com.

Neil

Jason Earl
August 22nd 06, 09:54 PM
DZ > writes:

> Jason Earl > wrote:
>> DZ writes:
>>> They also misspelled "activity" as "ativity" in the title. But I'm
>>> going to forgive it. Last year we wrote a paper that had a word
>>> "large" in the title, which sounded impressive and stuff. But then I
>>> realized that at the time the paper was accepted, it was a LaTeX
>>> formatting command, "\Large", that I put there to indicate the start
>>> of a large size font. That was merged as a word into the originally
>>> somewhat humbler title by mistake during the typesetting. I have to
>>> say it worked out better this way.
>>
>> I lurk on comp.text.tex and so a LaTeX joke on mfw goes over well.
>
> It's a true story. Here is another one. Once, when I was a student,
> I wanted to find a female biological symbol to use in a LaTeX
> document, so without any second thoughts I typed [female latex] into
> a search engine sitting in a computer lab full of students. That
> story was retold by an official during my graduation ceremony.

I'll have to take your word for it that such a search wasn't
particularly helpful.

Jason

Jason Earl
August 22nd 06, 10:35 PM
"Curt James" > writes:

> Jason Earl wrote:
>> "Curt James" writes:
> [...]
>
>> > <snip> I'd offer the same to Jason, but he said he's happy with
>> > his current DZ-inspired course of action.
>>
>> I'm happy for now, because it is meeting my goals and is easy, but
>> I like to mix things up. I also like reading about this sort of
>> stuff for fun.
>
> Likewise.
>
>> Even if I don't use the program I will almost certainly learn
>> something.
>>
>> Besides, the book apparently costs less than $12. Save your
>> postage, I'll pick up a copy at Wal-Mart.
>
> Again, I like the writing style. Entertaining and informative.
>
>> What's more, I'd be happy to give you my address, if you were
>> interested. Heck, if you are ever in Utah, look me up.
>
> Noted. :o)
>
>> You just have to promise not to show your nipple rings to my kids
>> :).
>
> It's a promise.

It's nothing personal, mind you. I'd just as soon not have to explain
to Zac why he can't get *his* nipples pierced :).

> Actually, I taught summer school and as one of the activities we
> took the students to the pool. I wore a pair of American Eagle swim
> trunks - to the knee, none of the European (or '70s U.S.) Speedo
> action here - so the tattoo around my calf was exposed, but I wore a
> tight tank top covered by a sleeveless t-shirt over my torso. So far
> as the students are concerned, I don't HAVE nipples much less
> piercings.

Even I go barer than that when I go swimming :).

> I love the district where I work, however. Piercing and
> tattoo-friendly to be sure. Security guards with neck and hand
> tattoos, lunch ladies with pierced eyebrows and nose studs, teachers
> with visible tattoos on ankles, wrists, etc.
>
> In fact, I was interviewed and hired with 2 gauge holes in each
> earlobe. The typical earring is about 14 or 16 gauge. A smaller
> number equals a bigger hole, so you can visualize (not that you'd
> especially want to) the size of the hole in my ear as the interview
> proceeded.

I don't understand why people do that sort of thing to themselves, but
I know plenty of people that seem to really enjoy it. It takes all
kinds to make the world go 'round, I suppose.

> Otoh, "art people" are almost expected to be somewhat eccentric.
> Despite the extra holes in my ears, I'm actually what I'd call more
> conservative than many of my fellow teachers. Plus, as I don't smoke
> or drink, some might consider me a regular stick in the mud.

I would say that you fit well within my definition of "conservative
enough," as I'm as big a stick in the mud as you are likely to meet.
The real problem with body art is that some of the people that
practice it also cultivate some truly anti-social behavior. I don't
have a problem with the body art if it isn't accompanied by the
anti-social behavior.

> The "no" drinking policy is a new twist of the last few months with
> one and a half Budweisers during the recent camping trip and one
> shot purchased for me on my birthday during that time. Cohen
> mentioned money saved wrt not buying food? HA! Cut the alcohol from
> your budget and there's plenty to spend on additional reading
> material. :o)

Another advantage of being LDS :).

> OT fitness and weights, last night I purchased _The New Drawing on
> the Right Side of the Brain Workbook_ by Betty Edwards in
> anticipation of the new school year. Lots of interesting exercises,
> plus the text is presented in a lesson plan format. Bonus! I'm still
> enjoying my summer vacation right now, though.

I am perhaps the worst artist in the history of the world. I went to
an "animation" class at DisneyLand and my drawing was pretty much the
only one that didn't look like Mickey Mouse.

Jason

Steve Freides
August 22nd 06, 10:54 PM
"oregonchick" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "David Cohen" > wrote in message
> et...
>>
>> "oregonchick" > wrote
>>> Ok, I know this ain't alt.support.diet. But I guess I'm here
>>> because I think I'll get more realistic advice and a good ass
>>> kicking... Here's the thing. I'd like to lose 10 lbs. I'm female,
>>> 5'3" and weigh 138. I had a baby in December, and I was sure by now
>>> I'd be back to prepregnancy weight. I am doing a full body weight
>>> routine 3 times a week, and have been for 3 months. I do cardio 4-5
>>> times a week - 45+ minutes on the elliptical. In the past month or
>>> so, I've been doing one long bike ride (20-40 miles) about once
>>> every week in addition. My stamina is up, my energy is up, I feel
>>> better, yadda yadda. But the damned scale hasn't moved hardly at
>>> all..maybe 2 lbs. I average 1600-1800 calories per day. I thought
>>> this was pretty reasonable with my level of activity lately. But I
>>> guess not... or I'd be losing weight. I lost weight before at that
>>> level. I'd love to think I was losing fat and gaining muscle, but
>>> while my clothes are fitting looser, I haven't gone down a whole
>>> pants size.
>>>
>>> I know I'm doing something wrong. I'm the kind of impatient person
>>> that gets frustrated and discouraged if I don't see SOME progress.
>>> It doesn't help that I just got back from vacation and I have zero
>>> motivation. I'm kind of tempted to try something like a fast, just
>>> for a week, to jump start things again, I don't believe in fad diets
>>> or quick fixes, but I need to get a handle on things again. What
>>> kind of results could I hope to see on something like a protein
>>> sparing fast?
>>
>> Large amounts of fat lost with minimal muscle loss.
>>
>> Ironically, they call it a protein sparing modified fast. Go figure
>> :)
>>
>> Buy the book:
>> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0967145643/sr=1-2/qid=1156222652/ref=pd_bbs_2/002-0657946-6776816?ie=UTF8&s=books
>>
>> David
>
>
> Why did he have to write such an expensive book? It had better be
> damned good... If it doesn't work any better than the thigh master,
> I'll be ticked.

It's not expensive; only Pavel's books are expensive. :)

David, I know it's worked well for you but I'd appreciate hearing about
your post-diet weight, how often you go on this diet, and just generally
how you've found it's worked for you over the long haul. Thanks.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

ATP*
August 22nd 06, 11:00 PM
"Jason Earl" > wrote in message
...
> JMW > writes:
>
>> Jason Earl > wrote:
>>>I noticed that Lyle has written quite a few books. Is this the one
>>>to get?
>>
>> Cohen is a Lyle flankie. He'll tell you to buy 'em all.
>
> Isn't it "flunkie?" I'm just curious as it seems that I have seen
> this particular spelling a couple of times now.
>
derived from "schuh flankie", a term used by someone named Avi paz or
similar, a self styled fitness expert

ATP*
August 22nd 06, 11:07 PM
"David Cohen" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> I have now done a PSMF a half a dozen times. For me, it is an ideal diet.
> I can maintain a lot of willpower for a short period of time, so I can do
> an extreme diet for a few weeks to a few months, and do it as often as
> necessary. I HATE eating a little under maintenence for a long period of
> time, so, standard dieting sucks!
>
> The first time, I went from the 260s and BF in the 30s, to the 190s and BF
> in the low teens. Took a few months.
>
Have you tried the Ultimate Diet once you're down to a reasonable BF level,
or just some sort of low calorie/structured refeed routine?

JMW
August 23rd 06, 01:04 AM
"ATP*" > wrote:
>"Jason Earl" > wrote:
>> JMW > writes:
>>> Jason Earl > wrote:
>>>>I noticed that Lyle has written quite a few books. Is this the one
>>>>to get?
>>>
>>> Cohen is a Lyle flankie. He'll tell you to buy 'em all.
>>
>> Isn't it "flunkie?" I'm just curious as it seems that I have seen
>> this particular spelling a couple of times now.
>>
>derived from "schuh flankie", a term used by someone named Avi paz or
>similar, a self styled fitness expert

Stop giving away our secret code words, dammit!

David Cohen
August 23rd 06, 01:22 AM
"Steve Freides" > wrote
> "oregonchick" > wrote
>> "David Cohen" > wrote
>>> "oregonchick" > wrote
>>>> Ok, I know this ain't alt.support.diet. But I guess I'm here because I
>>>> think I'll get more realistic advice and a good ass kicking... Here's
>>>> the thing. I'd like to lose 10 lbs. I'm female, 5'3" and weigh 138.
>>>> I had a baby in December, and I was sure by now I'd be back to
>>>> prepregnancy weight. I am doing a full body weight routine 3 times a
>>>> week, and have been for 3 months. I do cardio 4-5 times a week - 45+
>>>> minutes on the elliptical. In the past month or so, I've been doing
>>>> one long bike ride (20-40 miles) about once every week in addition. My
>>>> stamina is up, my energy is up, I feel better, yadda yadda. But the
>>>> damned scale hasn't moved hardly at all..maybe 2 lbs. I average
>>>> 1600-1800 calories per day. I thought this was pretty reasonable with
>>>> my level of activity lately. But I guess not... or I'd be losing
>>>> weight. I lost weight before at that level. I'd love to think I was
>>>> losing fat and gaining muscle, but while my clothes are fitting looser,
>>>> I haven't gone down a whole pants size.
>>>>
>>>> I know I'm doing something wrong. I'm the kind of impatient person
>>>> that gets frustrated and discouraged if I don't see SOME progress. It
>>>> doesn't help that I just got back from vacation and I have zero
>>>> motivation. I'm kind of tempted to try something like a fast, just for
>>>> a week, to jump start things again, I don't believe in fad diets or
>>>> quick fixes, but I need to get a handle on things again. What kind of
>>>> results could I hope to see on something like a protein sparing fast?
>>>
>>> Large amounts of fat lost with minimal muscle loss.
>>>
>>> Ironically, they call it a protein sparing modified fast. Go figure :)
>>>
>>> Buy the book:
>>> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0967145643/sr=1-2/qid=1156222652/ref=pd_bbs_2/002-0657946-6776816?ie=UTF8&s=books

>> Why did he have to write such an expensive book? It had better be damned
>> good... If it doesn't work any better than the thigh master, I'll be
>> ticked.
>
> It's not expensive; only Pavel's books are expensive. :)

True, that.

> David, I know it's worked well for you but I'd appreciate hearing about
> your post-diet weight, how often you go on this diet, and just generally
> how you've found it's worked for you over the long haul. Thanks.

Weight slowly goes up, I reach some psychological point, go back on it, lose
the weight, go off diet,
weight slowly goes up, I reach some psychological point, go back on it, lose
the weight, go off diet,
weight slowly goes up, I reach some psychological point, go back on it, lose
the weight, go off diet,
weight slowly goes up, I reach some psychological point, go back on it, lose
the weight, go off diet, etcetera.

The diet itself is not designed for "long haul". But my periodic use of it
is working out that way.

David

David Cohen
August 23rd 06, 01:28 AM
"ATP*" > wrote
> "David Cohen" > wrote
>>
>> I have now done a PSMF a half a dozen times. For me, it is an ideal diet.
>> I can maintain a lot of willpower for a short period of time, so I can do
>> an extreme diet for a few weeks to a few months, and do it as often as
>> necessary. I HATE eating a little under maintenence for a long period of
>> time, so, standard dieting sucks!
>>
>> The first time, I went from the 260s and BF in the 30s, to the 190s and
>> BF in the low teens. Took a few months.
>>
> Have you tried the Ultimate Diet once you're down to a reasonable BF
> level, or just some sort of low calorie/structured refeed routine?

Nope. As I posted to Steve F., I just do the diet whenever I need to. UD is
too structured for me. Each time I go off the diet, I "try" to eat
healthfully. I always succeed, for varying lengths of time, which is why the
weight regain varies, and the frequency of diets vary.

There is a psychological benefit to this diet, for me. I find it so easy to
do, and it works so well, that I have the psychological comfort in knowing I
can lose the weight whenever I choose. Makes life a bit less stressful.

David

Steve Freides
August 23rd 06, 01:31 AM
"David Cohen" > wrote in message
.net...
>
> "Steve Freides" > wrote
>> "oregonchick" > wrote
>>> "David Cohen" > wrote
>>>> "oregonchick" > wrote
>>>>> Ok, I know this ain't alt.support.diet. But I guess I'm here
>>>>> because I think I'll get more realistic advice and a good ass
>>>>> kicking... Here's the thing. I'd like to lose 10 lbs. I'm
>>>>> female, 5'3" and weigh 138. I had a baby in December, and I was
>>>>> sure by now I'd be back to prepregnancy weight. I am doing a full
>>>>> body weight routine 3 times a week, and have been for 3 months. I
>>>>> do cardio 4-5 times a week - 45+ minutes on the elliptical. In
>>>>> the past month or so, I've been doing one long bike ride (20-40
>>>>> miles) about once every week in addition. My stamina is up, my
>>>>> energy is up, I feel better, yadda yadda. But the damned scale
>>>>> hasn't moved hardly at all..maybe 2 lbs. I average 1600-1800
>>>>> calories per day. I thought this was pretty reasonable with my
>>>>> level of activity lately. But I guess not... or I'd be losing
>>>>> weight. I lost weight before at that level. I'd love to think I
>>>>> was losing fat and gaining muscle, but while my clothes are
>>>>> fitting looser, I haven't gone down a whole pants size.
>>>>>
>>>>> I know I'm doing something wrong. I'm the kind of impatient
>>>>> person that gets frustrated and discouraged if I don't see SOME
>>>>> progress. It doesn't help that I just got back from vacation and I
>>>>> have zero motivation. I'm kind of tempted to try something like a
>>>>> fast, just for a week, to jump start things again, I don't believe
>>>>> in fad diets or quick fixes, but I need to get a handle on things
>>>>> again. What kind of results could I hope to see on something like
>>>>> a protein sparing fast?
>>>>
>>>> Large amounts of fat lost with minimal muscle loss.
>>>>
>>>> Ironically, they call it a protein sparing modified fast. Go figure
>>>> :)
>>>>
>>>> Buy the book:
>>>> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0967145643/sr=1-2/qid=1156222652/ref=pd_bbs_2/002-0657946-6776816?ie=UTF8&s=books
>
>>> Why did he have to write such an expensive book? It had better be
>>> damned good... If it doesn't work any better than the thigh master,
>>> I'll be ticked.
>>
>> It's not expensive; only Pavel's books are expensive. :)
>
> True, that.
>
>> David, I know it's worked well for you but I'd appreciate hearing
>> about your post-diet weight, how often you go on this diet, and just
>> generally how you've found it's worked for you over the long haul.
>> Thanks.
>
> Weight slowly goes up, I reach some psychological point, go back on
> it, lose the weight, go off diet,
> weight slowly goes up, I reach some psychological point, go back on
> it, lose the weight, go off diet,
> weight slowly goes up, I reach some psychological point, go back on
> it, lose the weight, go off diet,
> weight slowly goes up, I reach some psychological point, go back on
> it, lose the weight, go off diet, etcetera.
>
> The diet itself is not designed for "long haul". But my periodic use
> of it is working out that way.

OK. You mentioned a weight of 260 and 30% bf starting, and 190 and
teens bf after the diet. What's the "some psychological point" look
like in terms of weight and bf percentage, and what length of time is
typical for the "cycle?"

Just curious. My own bodyweight and bf percentage just stay the same or
change very slowly (so far, for the better) no matter what I eat, it
seems. When my weight goes up or down, it's typically a matter of
salt/carbs and not much else.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

JMW
August 23rd 06, 01:39 AM
Jason Earl > wrote:
>JMW > writes:
>> Jason Earl > wrote:
>>>I noticed that Lyle has written quite a few books. Is this the one
>>>to get?
>>
>> Cohen is a Lyle flankie. He'll tell you to buy 'em all.
>
>Isn't it "flunkie?" I'm just curious as it seems that I have seen
>this particular spelling a couple of times now.
>
>I tend to take a very predictable tack when fishing for advice on
>reading material. Once I have identified an author whose work I am
>interested in sampling I ask someone that is a fan of the author for a
>good starting point.
>
>Most authors with more than one book to their credit tend to have one
>book which is considered their magnum opus. Either that, or they have
>a book that is considered the best place to start for newbies.
>Generally speaking, I have found that it saves time and energy if you
>take the time to learn from someone else's experience. Especially if
>the someone in question can be trusted.

Lyle's stuff is always well-documented with scientific research. I'll
grant him that.

However, that said, I'm not sure how long Lyle should hold the
monopoly on publishing a layman's version of a protein-sparing
modified fast. Back in the early days of MFW, when Lyle first took an
interest in cyclical ketogenic dieting and published a daily journal
of his experiences, the hot titles were Dan Duchaine's "Body Opus" and
Mauro DiPasquale's "Anabolic Diet." Eventually, all the details of
cyclical ketogenic dieting became "open source" in MFW and on personal
web sites. That was my source of information; I never bought any of
the books.

Eventually, I may change the nutrition page on my web site to a free
nuts-and-bolts explanation of a protein-sparing modified fast. Of
course, it will be my own version, and nobody will accuse me
plagiarizing Lyle's book because, for reasons known to the old
regulars of MFW, I don't buy Lyle's books. Still, in order for it to
be credible, I'll need to document it with copious footnotes from
medical and scientific literature. I already have nearly all of the
resource material, but right now, I have neither the time nor the
inclination to put it all together, so Lyle's royalties are safe for a
while.

I do have a pretty decent PSMF breakfast cereal if anyone wants it.

David Cohen
August 23rd 06, 01:40 AM
"Steve Freides" > wrote
> "David Cohen" > wrote
>> "Steve Freides" > wrote
>>> "oregonchick" > wrote
>>>> "David Cohen" > wrote
>>>>> "oregonchick" > wrote
>>>>>> Ok, I know this ain't alt.support.diet. But I guess I'm here because
>>>>>> I think I'll get more realistic advice and a good ass kicking...
>>>>>> Here's the thing. I'd like to lose 10 lbs. I'm female, 5'3" and
>>>>>> weigh 138. I had a baby in December, and I was sure by now I'd be
>>>>>> back to prepregnancy weight. I am doing a full body weight routine 3
>>>>>> times a week, and have been for 3 months. I do cardio 4-5 times a
>>>>>> week - 45+ minutes on the elliptical. In the past month or so, I've
>>>>>> been doing one long bike ride (20-40 miles) about once every week in
>>>>>> addition. My stamina is up, my energy is up, I feel better, yadda
>>>>>> yadda. But the damned scale hasn't moved hardly at all..maybe 2 lbs.
>>>>>> I average 1600-1800 calories per day. I thought this was pretty
>>>>>> reasonable with my level of activity lately. But I guess not... or
>>>>>> I'd be losing weight. I lost weight before at that level. I'd love
>>>>>> to think I was losing fat and gaining muscle, but while my clothes
>>>>>> are fitting looser, I haven't gone down a whole pants size.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I know I'm doing something wrong. I'm the kind of impatient person
>>>>>> that gets frustrated and discouraged if I don't see SOME progress. It
>>>>>> doesn't help that I just got back from vacation and I have zero
>>>>>> motivation. I'm kind of tempted to try something like a fast, just
>>>>>> for a week, to jump start things again, I don't believe in fad diets
>>>>>> or quick fixes, but I need to get a handle on things again. What
>>>>>> kind of results could I hope to see on something like a protein
>>>>>> sparing fast?
>>>>>
>>>>> Large amounts of fat lost with minimal muscle loss.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ironically, they call it a protein sparing modified fast. Go figure :)
>>>>>
>>>>> Buy the book:
>>>>> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0967145643/sr=1-2/qid=1156222652/ref=pd_bbs_2/002-0657946-6776816?ie=UTF8&s=books
>>
>>>> Why did he have to write such an expensive book? It had better be
>>>> damned good... If it doesn't work any better than the thigh master,
>>>> I'll be ticked.
>>>
>>> It's not expensive; only Pavel's books are expensive. :)
>>
>> True, that.
>>
>>> David, I know it's worked well for you but I'd appreciate hearing about
>>> your post-diet weight, how often you go on this diet, and just generally
>>> how you've found it's worked for you over the long haul. Thanks.
>>
>> Weight slowly goes up, I reach some psychological point, go back on it,
>> lose the weight, go off diet,
>> weight slowly goes up, I reach some psychological point, go back on it,
>> lose the weight, go off diet,
>> weight slowly goes up, I reach some psychological point, go back on it,
>> lose the weight, go off diet,
>> weight slowly goes up, I reach some psychological point, go back on it,
>> lose the weight, go off diet, etcetera.
>>
>> The diet itself is not designed for "long haul". But my periodic use of
>> it is working out that way.
>
> OK. You mentioned a weight of 260 and 30% bf starting, and 190 and teens
> bf after the diet. What's the "some psychological point" look like in
> terms of weight and bf percentage, and what length of time is typical for
> the "cycle?"

I'm happy in the 220s and around high teens%BF. When I get far enough above
that so clothes don't fit so good, diet time.

> Just curious. My own bodyweight and bf percentage just stay the same or
> change very slowly (so far, for the better) no matter what I eat, it
> seems. When my weight goes up or down, it's typically a matter of
> salt/carbs and not much else.

I could have been an Olympic Eater. I missed my calling.

David

ATP*
August 23rd 06, 02:31 AM
"David Cohen" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "ATP*" > wrote
>> "David Cohen" > wrote
>>>
>>> I have now done a PSMF a half a dozen times. For me, it is an ideal
>>> diet. I can maintain a lot of willpower for a short period of time, so I
>>> can do an extreme diet for a few weeks to a few months, and do it as
>>> often as necessary. I HATE eating a little under maintenence for a long
>>> period of time, so, standard dieting sucks!
>>>
>>> The first time, I went from the 260s and BF in the 30s, to the 190s and
>>> BF in the low teens. Took a few months.
>>>
>> Have you tried the Ultimate Diet once you're down to a reasonable BF
>> level, or just some sort of low calorie/structured refeed routine?
>
> Nope. As I posted to Steve F., I just do the diet whenever I need to. UD
> is too structured for me. Each time I go off the diet, I "try" to eat
> healthfully. I always succeed, for varying lengths of time, which is why
> the weight regain varies, and the frequency of diets vary.
>
> There is a psychological benefit to this diet, for me. I find it so easy
> to do, and it works so well, that I have the psychological comfort in
> knowing I can lose the weight whenever I choose. Makes life a bit less
> stressful.
>
> David
Do you intentionally eat to gain mass while off the diet? Does each cycle
bring you back to the same place or is there some improvement? This is the
first time I've gone on a real diet. Although I drifted up a few pounds
particularly when the kids were really young, it wasn't while I was
seriously training, so I've never really eaten enough extra calories for
gaining mass in a systematic fashion. I was eating the right stuff at the
prescribed times but holding back on the amounts. After I get lean enough I
plan on a moderate mass-building phase, coinciding with the winter months.

OmManiPadmeOmelet
August 23rd 06, 03:05 AM
In article >,
Jason Earl > wrote:

> OmManiPadmeOmelet > writes:
>
> > In article >,
> > Jason Earl > wrote:
> >
> >> Isn't it "flunkie?" I'm just curious as it seems that I have seen
> >> this particular spelling a couple of times now.
> >
> > IIRC, "Flankie" is an old inside list joke based on a mis-spelling
> > by a list member _ages_ ago.
> >
> > If you have the patience and time, you can probably google it. I
> > don't. My bedtime is in 2 minutes...
>
> That makes sense. Once could have been a misspelling, but I was
> pretty sure I had seen it several times.
>
> Jason

Yes, you have... It took off from the original mis-spelling and has been
spelled that way ever since. That's the joke. ;-) And I believe it's
specific for Lyle.
--
Peace!
Om

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch"
-- Jack Nicholson

OmManiPadmeOmelet
August 23rd 06, 03:05 AM
In article >,
"oregonchick" > wrote:

> >> Thanks. I'm not looking to drop all the weight via a fast. Just a
> >> couple
> >> lbs. I just need a jumpstart...
> >
> > Take a laxative...... ;-)
>
> Um, that would be SOME TURD.

<lol>

>
> >
> > Just kidding!
> >
> > Seriously, at your point, if you can lose two lbs. of REAL weight in 2
> > weeks, that'd probably be about right?
> >
> > Do others concur?
> >
> > Do have your thyroid checked just for grins.
>
> Thinkin' about it. Hubby just found out he has subclinical hypo. Not that
> it'd rub off or anything. If this fast doesn't do it, I'll be getting some
> labs done.

Hope he does better!

Cheers and best of luck.
--
Peace!
Om

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch"
-- Jack Nicholson

OmManiPadmeOmelet
August 23rd 06, 03:08 AM
In article et>,
"David Cohen" > wrote:

> "ATP*" > wrote
> > "David Cohen" > wrote
> >>
> >> I have now done a PSMF a half a dozen times. For me, it is an ideal diet.
> >> I can maintain a lot of willpower for a short period of time, so I can do
> >> an extreme diet for a few weeks to a few months, and do it as often as
> >> necessary. I HATE eating a little under maintenence for a long period of
> >> time, so, standard dieting sucks!
> >>
> >> The first time, I went from the 260s and BF in the 30s, to the 190s and
> >> BF in the low teens. Took a few months.
> >>
> > Have you tried the Ultimate Diet once you're down to a reasonable BF
> > level, or just some sort of low calorie/structured refeed routine?
>
> Nope. As I posted to Steve F., I just do the diet whenever I need to. UD is
> too structured for me. Each time I go off the diet, I "try" to eat
> healthfully. I always succeed, for varying lengths of time, which is why the
> weight regain varies, and the frequency of diets vary.
>
> There is a psychological benefit to this diet, for me. I find it so easy to
> do, and it works so well, that I have the psychological comfort in knowing I
> can lose the weight whenever I choose. Makes life a bit less stressful.
>
> David

Indeed...
--
Peace!
Om

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch"
-- Jack Nicholson

OmManiPadmeOmelet
August 23rd 06, 03:09 AM
In article >,
JMW > wrote:

> I do have a pretty decent PSMF breakfast cereal if anyone wants it.

<raises hand> Please? ;-)
I can be reached at this e-mail address now, or you know the other
one....
--
Peace!
Om

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch"
-- Jack Nicholson

David Cohen
August 23rd 06, 03:21 AM
"ATP*" > wrote
> "David Cohen" > wrote
>> "ATP*" > wrote
>>> "David Cohen" > wrote
>>>>
>>>> I have now done a PSMF a half a dozen times. For me, it is an ideal
>>>> diet. I can maintain a lot of willpower for a short period of time, so
>>>> I can do an extreme diet for a few weeks to a few months, and do it as
>>>> often as necessary. I HATE eating a little under maintenence for a long
>>>> period of time, so, standard dieting sucks!
>>>>
>>>> The first time, I went from the 260s and BF in the 30s, to the 190s and
>>>> BF in the low teens. Took a few months.
>>>>
>>> Have you tried the Ultimate Diet once you're down to a reasonable BF
>>> level, or just some sort of low calorie/structured refeed routine?
>>
>> Nope. As I posted to Steve F., I just do the diet whenever I need to. UD
>> is too structured for me. Each time I go off the diet, I "try" to eat
>> healthfully. I always succeed, for varying lengths of time, which is why
>> the weight regain varies, and the frequency of diets vary.
>>
>> There is a psychological benefit to this diet, for me. I find it so easy
>> to do, and it works so well, that I have the psychological comfort in
>> knowing I can lose the weight whenever I choose. Makes life a bit less
>> stressful.

> Do you intentionally eat to gain mass while off the diet? Does each cycle
> bring you back to the same place or is there some improvement?

Varies. Like everything else. Depends on what's happening in life at the
time.

You can tailor it to work however you choose. I just find it easier to
"extreme" diet for short periods of time, rather than moderate diet for long
periods of time. Others may have different experiences, and results.

David

JMW
August 23rd 06, 03:40 AM
OmManiPadmeOmelet > wrote:

>In article >,
> Jason Earl > wrote:
>
>> OmManiPadmeOmelet > writes:
>>
>> > In article >,
>> > Jason Earl > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Isn't it "flunkie?" I'm just curious as it seems that I have seen
>> >> this particular spelling a couple of times now.
>> >
>> > IIRC, "Flankie" is an old inside list joke based on a mis-spelling
>> > by a list member _ages_ ago.
>> >
>> > If you have the patience and time, you can probably google it. I
>> > don't. My bedtime is in 2 minutes...
>>
>> That makes sense. Once could have been a misspelling, but I was
>> pretty sure I had seen it several times.
>>
>> Jason
>
>Yes, you have... It took off from the original mis-spelling and has been
>spelled that way ever since. That's the joke. ;-) And I believe it's
>specific for Lyle.

No. Avi first used it in an accusation leveled against Bill Roberts,
seven years and five days ago.

JMW
August 23rd 06, 03:49 AM
OmManiPadmeOmelet > wrote:

>In article >,
> JMW > wrote:
>
>> I do have a pretty decent PSMF breakfast cereal if anyone wants it.
>
><raises hand> Please? ;-)
>I can be reached at this e-mail address now, or you know the other
>one....

I'm not going to make a fortune by mass-producing it, so I'm not going
to keep it secret:

http://www.rustyiron.net/johns_hot_cereal.pdf

Jason Earl
August 23rd 06, 03:57 AM
JMW > writes:

> OmManiPadmeOmelet > wrote:
>
>>In article >,
>> Jason Earl > wrote:
>>
>>> OmManiPadmeOmelet > writes:
>>>
>>> > In article >,
>>> > Jason Earl > wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Isn't it "flunkie?" I'm just curious as it seems that I have seen
>>> >> this particular spelling a couple of times now.
>>> >
>>> > IIRC, "Flankie" is an old inside list joke based on a mis-spelling
>>> > by a list member _ages_ ago.
>>> >
>>> > If you have the patience and time, you can probably google it. I
>>> > don't. My bedtime is in 2 minutes...
>>>
>>> That makes sense. Once could have been a misspelling, but I was
>>> pretty sure I had seen it several times.
>>>
>>> Jason
>>
>>Yes, you have... It took off from the original mis-spelling and has
>>been spelled that way ever since. That's the joke. ;-) And I believe
>>it's specific for Lyle.
>
> No. Avi first used it in an accusation leveled against Bill
> Roberts, seven years and five days ago.

Proving once again that with a cheerful disposition, and the right
questions there is no reason to learn how to use Google.

Thanks for the information.

Jason

Jason Earl
August 23rd 06, 03:58 AM
JMW > writes:

> OmManiPadmeOmelet > wrote:
>
>>In article >,
>> JMW > wrote:
>>
>>> I do have a pretty decent PSMF breakfast cereal if anyone wants it.
>>
>><raises hand> Please? ;-)
>>I can be reached at this e-mail address now, or you know the other
>>one....
>
> I'm not going to make a fortune by mass-producing it, so I'm not going
> to keep it secret:
>
> http://www.rustyiron.net/johns_hot_cereal.pdf

That actually sounds pretty good. I like hot cereal. You need to
upgrade your version of openoffice.org though.

Jason

JMW
August 23rd 06, 04:07 AM
Jason Earl > wrote:

>JMW > writes:
>
>> OmManiPadmeOmelet > wrote:
>>
>>>In article >,
>>> JMW > wrote:
>>>
>>>> I do have a pretty decent PSMF breakfast cereal if anyone wants it.
>>>
>>><raises hand> Please? ;-)
>>>I can be reached at this e-mail address now, or you know the other
>>>one....
>>
>> I'm not going to make a fortune by mass-producing it, so I'm not going
>> to keep it secret:
>>
>> http://www.rustyiron.net/johns_hot_cereal.pdf
>
>That actually sounds pretty good. I like hot cereal. You need to
>upgrade your version of openoffice.org though.

Why?

Gooserider
August 23rd 06, 04:17 AM
"David Cohen" > wrote in message
et...
>
> "oregonchick" > wrote
>> "David Cohen" > wrote >>
>>> "oregonchick" > wrote
>>>> Ok, I know this ain't alt.support.diet. But I guess I'm here because I
>>>> think I'll get more realistic advice and a good ass kicking... Here's
>>>> the thing. I'd like to lose 10 lbs. I'm female, 5'3" and weigh 138.
>>>> I had a baby in December, and I was sure by now I'd be back to
>>>> prepregnancy weight. I am doing a full body weight routine 3 times a
>>>> week, and have been for 3 months. I do cardio 4-5 times a week - 45+
>>>> minutes on the elliptical. In the past month or so, I've been doing
>>>> one long bike ride (20-40 miles) about once every week in addition. My
>>>> stamina is up, my energy is up, I feel better, yadda yadda. But the
>>>> damned scale hasn't moved hardly at all..maybe 2 lbs. I average
>>>> 1600-1800 calories per day. I thought this was pretty reasonable with
>>>> my level of activity lately. But I guess not... or I'd be losing
>>>> weight. I lost weight before at that level. I'd love to think I was
>>>> losing fat and gaining muscle, but while my clothes are fitting looser,
>>>> I haven't gone down a whole pants size.
>>>>
>>>> I know I'm doing something wrong. I'm the kind of impatient person
>>>> that gets frustrated and discouraged if I don't see SOME progress. It
>>>> doesn't help that I just got back from vacation and I have zero
>>>> motivation. I'm kind of tempted to try something like a fast, just for
>>>> a week, to jump start things again, I don't believe in fad diets or
>>>> quick fixes, but I need to get a handle on things again. What kind of
>>>> results could I hope to see on something like a protein sparing fast?
>>>
>>> Large amounts of fat lost with minimal muscle loss.
>>>
>>> Ironically, they call it a protein sparing modified fast. Go figure :)
>>>
>>> Buy the book:
>>> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0967145643/sr=1-2/qid=1156222652/ref=pd_bbs_2/002-0657946-6776816?ie=UTF8&s=books
>>
>> Why did he have to write such an expensive book?
>
> It's called capitalism. Lyle had a product, decided on a price, and offers
> it for sale. You are free to buy, or not buy, the book.
>
> What are you, a freakin' Commie?
>
>> It had better be damned good... If it doesn't work any better than the
>> thigh master, I'll be ticked.
>
> It's has worked well for many, including me, and has probably not worked
> well for others.
>
> It's not like you're risking your retirement account or a house
> repossession. Think of all the money you'll save on the food you won't be
> buying.
>
> David
David---

What kind of results did you get, and in what time frame?

Jason Earl
August 23rd 06, 04:19 AM
JMW > writes:

> Jason Earl > wrote:
>
>>JMW > writes:
>>
>>> OmManiPadmeOmelet > wrote:
>>>
>>>>In article >,
>>>> JMW > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I do have a pretty decent PSMF breakfast cereal if anyone wants it.
>>>>
>>>><raises hand> Please? ;-)
>>>>I can be reached at this e-mail address now, or you know the other
>>>>one....
>>>
>>> I'm not going to make a fortune by mass-producing it, so I'm not going
>>> to keep it secret:
>>>
>>> http://www.rustyiron.net/johns_hot_cereal.pdf
>>
>>That actually sounds pretty good. I like hot cereal. You need to
>>upgrade your version of openoffice.org though.
>
> Why?

I just noticed that the version number that created your PDF was an
older version (I am always curious to see what people use to create
PDFs). I think that there have been some minor security issues with
OO.org, but the likelihood of encountering OO.org based malware is so
low as to be negligible.

There's little reason to upgrade if you are happy with what you have.

Jason

JMW
August 23rd 06, 04:25 AM
Jason Earl > wrote:

>JMW > writes:
>
>> Jason Earl > wrote:
>>
>>>JMW > writes:
>>>
>>>> OmManiPadmeOmelet > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>In article >,
>>>>> JMW > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I do have a pretty decent PSMF breakfast cereal if anyone wants it.
>>>>>
>>>>><raises hand> Please? ;-)
>>>>>I can be reached at this e-mail address now, or you know the other
>>>>>one....
>>>>
>>>> I'm not going to make a fortune by mass-producing it, so I'm not going
>>>> to keep it secret:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.rustyiron.net/johns_hot_cereal.pdf
>>>
>>>That actually sounds pretty good. I like hot cereal. You need to
>>>upgrade your version of openoffice.org though.
>>
>> Why?
>
>I just noticed that the version number that created your PDF was an
>older version (I am always curious to see what people use to create
>PDFs). I think that there have been some minor security issues with
>OO.org, but the likelihood of encountering OO.org based malware is so
>low as to be negligible.
>
>There's little reason to upgrade if you are happy with what you have.

Exactly. I use it create PDFs because I'm not going to shell out an
unreasonable sum for Adobe Acrobat. As to other stuff, I have the
Microsoft and Lotus office suites.

David Cohen
August 23rd 06, 05:08 AM
"Gooserider" > wrote
> David---
> What kind of results did you get, and in what time frame?

Below are a few excerpts from posts I made to Lyle's forum last year, which
I seem to recall I also posted here. They should answer your question.

Thanks, Lyle
One month on PSMF. Went from the 250's at about 30% BF to the 220's at about
20% BF. (Don't fret the math. Variations in water/glycogen and my rather
casual caliper technique. But they're close enough.) Probably continue until
the 200's and about 10% BF. I have no interest in trying to maintain single
digit body fat.

Diet's been a snap. High protein and ketosis just kill my appetite. Have to
struggle to get all the protein in. But no matter how much veges and fiber
supplements and stool softener I use, I STILL have to do a once a week
laxative dose, and the hard stools are making my hemorrhoid bleed! I know
you've been accused of BEING a bloody asshole, but, in this case, you've
GIVEN me a bloody asshole. Not in a prison way, luckily.

Only exercise has been a little weight lifting and mostly cardio...walking
the dog on work days, and mountain hiking with the dog on weekends. Which is
more than you might think, since I have four day weekends every week.

Only used one "cheat day" when my daughter and I drove up to the Best
Friends Animal Sanctuary in Southern Utah. Haven't felt the need for more ,
yet.

Part 2 Thanks Lyle!!

Prior to the diet, my cholesterol and triglyceride numbers were so ****ing
bad, I get depressed looking them up, so I won't. My MD (since fired for
this among other reasons) wanted to put me on statins, but I insisted on
diet and exercise first. He claimed the conventional "wisdom" that doing so
would only make a 10% difference. But, take my word for it: when I say "too
****ing high" I am SO not kidding.

The results on various health markers and predictors from one month on the
LMMPSMF:

Total cholesterol went from "way too ****ing high" to 140. Excellent.
Actually, a bit TOO low, but it'll go up after I start eating some carbs and
fat.

Triglycerides went from "way too ****ing high" to 76. Perfect.

HDL (good cholesterol) went from "way too ****ing low" to 42. Very good.
LDL (bad cholesterol) went from "way too ****ing high" to 83. Very good.

Blood pressure went from 140s/90s (bad) to 110s/60s (excellent).

Resting heart rate went from 80s-90s (bad) to 60s-70s (very good).

As far as the myth that high protein intakes adversely affect kidney and/or
liver function of otherwise healthy kidneys and livers, my liver and kidney
function numbers were all normal.

Oh, there were ketones in my urine :)

Part 3 Thanks Lyle!! .

To recap, Part 1 recounted my one month drop from 250s/30% body fat to the
220s/20% BF. Part 2 described the extraordinary improvement in vital signs
and blood lipid values.

It's now been two months. I'm down to about 210 pounds and 17% body fat. The
rate of weight loss has slowed, as expected, since my maintenance caloric
requirement is much less at over 40 pounds lighter. To keep the same weight
loss rate, I'd have to eat less or exercise more. Eating less would affect
the protein sparing aspect of the Lyle McDonald Modified Protein Sparing
Modified Fast (LMMPSMF). I don't have the time or desire to increase
exercise right now.

Part 4 Thanks Lyle!!

As previously mentioned, my main mode of exercise on the Lyle McDonald
Modified Protein Sparing Modified Fast is mountain hiking with the dog.
There's this one hike that I've never bothered to try: hot, dry desert
terrain; nearly 2000 feet elevation gain; steep, loose, difficult hiking.

I made it to the top today in two hours, with no particular difficulty. But
that's not the amazing part. The hiking shoes I wear are known as trail
runners: very light shoes with a grippy lug sole and good longitudinal
support but minimal lateral support, designed to, literally, run on trails.
But I never used them that way, because the jarring to my knees and ankles
was too severe. Well, today, I ran in the shoes. I was bouncing around up
there like Tigger on meth. And no knee or ankle problems, because you have
enabled me to lose nearly 50 pounds of fat while maintaining my fairly
substantial leg muscle mass.

So, next time I see you, I'm gonna' give you a big kiss. In that manly
Palestinian way. Don't bother protesting: I'm bigger than you, and I'm
armed. So just accept the inevitable.

Curt James
August 23rd 06, 05:52 AM
Cohen wrote:
[...]
> I was bouncing around up there like Tigger on meth.
[...]

I've mentioned my enjoyment of your humor in general and previously,
but Tigger on meth deserves an individual mention and additional kudos.
Where'd I put that ribbon?

"LMAO! Awarded to David Cohen for Best Humor for August 2006"

Wear it with pride.

....

And, I just got the deadlift comment. Your jokes are time release or
I'm getting sloooower in my old age.

> And no knee or ankle problems, because you have enabled
> me to lose nearly 50 pounds of fat while maintaining my fairly
> substantial leg muscle mass.

An excellent read and wonderful endorsement of PSMF.

> So, next time I see you, I'm gonna' give you a big kiss. In that manly
> Palestinian way. Don't bother protesting: I'm bigger than you, and I'm
> armed. So just accept the inevitable.

heh

Sorry, that was my only ribbon for the month.

--
Curt

JMW
August 23rd 06, 07:07 AM
"David Cohen" > wrote:
>"Gooserider" > wrote
>> David---
>> What kind of results did you get, and in what time frame?
>
>Below are a few excerpts from posts I made to Lyle's forum last year, which
>I seem to recall I also posted here. They should answer your question.
>
>Thanks, Lyle
>One month on PSMF. Went from the 250's at about 30% BF to the 220's at about
>20% BF. (Don't fret the math. Variations in water/glycogen and my rather
>casual caliper technique. But they're close enough.) Probably continue until
>the 200's and about 10% BF. I have no interest in trying to maintain single
>digit body fat.
>
>Diet's been a snap. High protein and ketosis just kill my appetite. Have to
>struggle to get all the protein in. But no matter how much veges and fiber
>supplements and stool softener I use, I STILL have to do a once a week
>laxative dose, and the hard stools are making my hemorrhoid bleed! I know
>you've been accused of BEING a bloody asshole, but, in this case, you've
>GIVEN me a bloody asshole. Not in a prison way, luckily.
>
>Only exercise has been a little weight lifting and mostly cardio...walking
>the dog on work days, and mountain hiking with the dog on weekends. Which is
>more than you might think, since I have four day weekends every week.
>
>Only used one "cheat day" when my daughter and I drove up to the Best
>Friends Animal Sanctuary in Southern Utah. Haven't felt the need for more ,
>yet.
>
>Part 2 Thanks Lyle!!
>
>Prior to the diet, my cholesterol and triglyceride numbers were so ****ing
>bad, I get depressed looking them up, so I won't. My MD (since fired for
>this among other reasons) wanted to put me on statins, but I insisted on
>diet and exercise first. He claimed the conventional "wisdom" that doing so
>would only make a 10% difference. But, take my word for it: when I say "too
>****ing high" I am SO not kidding.
>
>The results on various health markers and predictors from one month on the
>LMMPSMF:
>
>Total cholesterol went from "way too ****ing high" to 140. Excellent.
>Actually, a bit TOO low, but it'll go up after I start eating some carbs and
>fat.
>
>Triglycerides went from "way too ****ing high" to 76. Perfect.
>
>HDL (good cholesterol) went from "way too ****ing low" to 42. Very good.
>LDL (bad cholesterol) went from "way too ****ing high" to 83. Very good.
>
>Blood pressure went from 140s/90s (bad) to 110s/60s (excellent).
>
>Resting heart rate went from 80s-90s (bad) to 60s-70s (very good).
>
>As far as the myth that high protein intakes adversely affect kidney and/or
>liver function of otherwise healthy kidneys and livers, my liver and kidney
>function numbers were all normal.
>
>Oh, there were ketones in my urine :)
>
>Part 3 Thanks Lyle!! .
>
>To recap, Part 1 recounted my one month drop from 250s/30% body fat to the
>220s/20% BF. Part 2 described the extraordinary improvement in vital signs
>and blood lipid values.
>
>It's now been two months. I'm down to about 210 pounds and 17% body fat. The
>rate of weight loss has slowed, as expected, since my maintenance caloric
>requirement is much less at over 40 pounds lighter. To keep the same weight
>loss rate, I'd have to eat less or exercise more. Eating less would affect
>the protein sparing aspect of the Lyle McDonald Modified Protein Sparing
>Modified Fast (LMMPSMF). I don't have the time or desire to increase
>exercise right now.
>
>Part 4 Thanks Lyle!!
>
>As previously mentioned, my main mode of exercise on the Lyle McDonald
>Modified Protein Sparing Modified Fast is mountain hiking with the dog.
>There's this one hike that I've never bothered to try: hot, dry desert
>terrain; nearly 2000 feet elevation gain; steep, loose, difficult hiking.
>
>I made it to the top today in two hours, with no particular difficulty. But
>that's not the amazing part. The hiking shoes I wear are known as trail
>runners: very light shoes with a grippy lug sole and good longitudinal
>support but minimal lateral support, designed to, literally, run on trails.
>But I never used them that way, because the jarring to my knees and ankles
>was too severe. Well, today, I ran in the shoes. I was bouncing around up
>there like Tigger on meth. And no knee or ankle problems, because you have
>enabled me to lose nearly 50 pounds of fat while maintaining my fairly
>substantial leg muscle mass.
>
>So, next time I see you, I'm gonna' give you a big kiss. In that manly
>Palestinian way. Don't bother protesting: I'm bigger than you, and I'm
>armed. So just accept the inevitable.

Reads like a Curt James post.

Curt James
August 23rd 06, 07:28 AM
JMW wrote:
> "David Cohen" wrote:
[...]

> >So, next time I see you, I'm gonna' give you a big kiss. In that manly
> >Palestinian way. Don't bother protesting: I'm bigger than you, and I'm
> >armed. So just accept the inevitable.
>
> Reads like a Curt James post.

I'll accept that as a compliment, John Williams.

I enjoy Cohen's writing style a lot. Still, I'm watching your replies
with a suspicious eye. Or have *you* accepted the inevitable? ;o)

If you've been watching your diet then I should be able to say, "I'm
bigger than you, and I'm armed." Armed? Yes. I have a bag full of
sporks and, trust me... I KNOW how to use them!

--
Curt

Dally
August 23rd 06, 07:35 AM
OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:

> Yes, you have... It took off from the original mis-spelling and has been
> spelled that way ever since. That's the joke. ;-) And I believe it's
> specific for Lyle.

I thought it was specific to Mistress Krista.

Dally, a flankie

JMW
August 23rd 06, 08:06 AM
Dally > wrote:

>OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
>
>> Yes, you have... It took off from the original mis-spelling and has been
>> spelled that way ever since. That's the joke. ;-) And I believe it's
>> specific for Lyle.
>
>I thought it was specific to Mistress Krista.
>
>Dally, a flankie

Pffft. Newbies.

In fact, if you check out the thread where the term first appeared,
you'll see she was still posting as "Krista Scott-Dixon."

David Cohen
August 23rd 06, 08:11 AM
"JMW" > wrote
> "David Cohen" > wrote:
>>"Gooserider" > wrote
>>> David---
>>> What kind of results did you get, and in what time frame?
>>
>>Below are a few excerpts from posts I made to Lyle's forum last year,
>>which
>>I seem to recall I also posted here. They should answer your question.
>>
>>Thanks, Lyle
>>One month on PSMF. Went from the 250's at about 30% BF to the 220's at
>>about
>>20% BF. (Don't fret the math. Variations in water/glycogen and my rather
>>casual caliper technique. But they're close enough.) Probably continue
>>until
>>the 200's and about 10% BF. I have no interest in trying to maintain
>>single
>>digit body fat.
>>
>>Diet's been a snap. High protein and ketosis just kill my appetite. Have
>>to
>>struggle to get all the protein in. But no matter how much veges and fiber
>>supplements and stool softener I use, I STILL have to do a once a week
>>laxative dose, and the hard stools are making my hemorrhoid bleed! I know
>>you've been accused of BEING a bloody asshole, but, in this case, you've
>>GIVEN me a bloody asshole. Not in a prison way, luckily.
>>
>>Only exercise has been a little weight lifting and mostly cardio...walking
>>the dog on work days, and mountain hiking with the dog on weekends. Which
>>is
>>more than you might think, since I have four day weekends every week.
>>
>>Only used one "cheat day" when my daughter and I drove up to the Best
>>Friends Animal Sanctuary in Southern Utah. Haven't felt the need for more
>>,
>>yet.
>>
>>Part 2 Thanks Lyle!!
>>
>>Prior to the diet, my cholesterol and triglyceride numbers were so ****ing
>>bad, I get depressed looking them up, so I won't. My MD (since fired for
>>this among other reasons) wanted to put me on statins, but I insisted on
>>diet and exercise first. He claimed the conventional "wisdom" that doing
>>so
>>would only make a 10% difference. But, take my word for it: when I say
>>"too
>>****ing high" I am SO not kidding.
>>
>>The results on various health markers and predictors from one month on the
>>LMMPSMF:
>>
>>Total cholesterol went from "way too ****ing high" to 140. Excellent.
>>Actually, a bit TOO low, but it'll go up after I start eating some carbs
>>and
>>fat.
>>
>>Triglycerides went from "way too ****ing high" to 76. Perfect.
>>
>>HDL (good cholesterol) went from "way too ****ing low" to 42. Very good.
>>LDL (bad cholesterol) went from "way too ****ing high" to 83. Very good.
>>
>>Blood pressure went from 140s/90s (bad) to 110s/60s (excellent).
>>
>>Resting heart rate went from 80s-90s (bad) to 60s-70s (very good).
>>
>>As far as the myth that high protein intakes adversely affect kidney
>>and/or
>>liver function of otherwise healthy kidneys and livers, my liver and
>>kidney
>>function numbers were all normal.
>>
>>Oh, there were ketones in my urine :)
>>
>>Part 3 Thanks Lyle!! .
>>
>>To recap, Part 1 recounted my one month drop from 250s/30% body fat to the
>>220s/20% BF. Part 2 described the extraordinary improvement in vital signs
>>and blood lipid values.
>>
>>It's now been two months. I'm down to about 210 pounds and 17% body fat.
>>The
>>rate of weight loss has slowed, as expected, since my maintenance caloric
>>requirement is much less at over 40 pounds lighter. To keep the same
>>weight
>>loss rate, I'd have to eat less or exercise more. Eating less would affect
>>the protein sparing aspect of the Lyle McDonald Modified Protein Sparing
>>Modified Fast (LMMPSMF). I don't have the time or desire to increase
>>exercise right now.
>>
>>Part 4 Thanks Lyle!!
>>
>>As previously mentioned, my main mode of exercise on the Lyle McDonald
>>Modified Protein Sparing Modified Fast is mountain hiking with the dog.
>>There's this one hike that I've never bothered to try: hot, dry desert
>>terrain; nearly 2000 feet elevation gain; steep, loose, difficult hiking.
>>
>>I made it to the top today in two hours, with no particular difficulty.
>>But
>>that's not the amazing part. The hiking shoes I wear are known as trail
>>runners: very light shoes with a grippy lug sole and good longitudinal
>>support but minimal lateral support, designed to, literally, run on
>>trails.
>>But I never used them that way, because the jarring to my knees and ankles
>>was too severe. Well, today, I ran in the shoes. I was bouncing around up
>>there like Tigger on meth. And no knee or ankle problems, because you have
>>enabled me to lose nearly 50 pounds of fat while maintaining my fairly
>>substantial leg muscle mass.
>>
>>So, next time I see you, I'm gonna' give you a big kiss. In that manly
>>Palestinian way. Don't bother protesting: I'm bigger than you, and I'm
>>armed. So just accept the inevitable.
>
> Reads like a Curt James post.

Curt kisses half Palestinian speed skaters? He's such a slut!

Other than my blatant ass kissing, was it like a Curt James post in some
other way?

David

Larry Hodges
August 23rd 06, 09:05 AM
"JMW" > wrote in message
...
> Jason Earl > wrote:
>
>>JMW > writes:
>>
>>> Jason Earl > wrote:
>>>
>>>>JMW > writes:
>>>>
>>>>> OmManiPadmeOmelet > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>In article >,
>>>>>> JMW > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I do have a pretty decent PSMF breakfast cereal if anyone wants it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>><raises hand> Please? ;-)
>>>>>>I can be reached at this e-mail address now, or you know the other
>>>>>>one....
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not going to make a fortune by mass-producing it, so I'm not going
>>>>> to keep it secret:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.rustyiron.net/johns_hot_cereal.pdf
>>>>
>>>>That actually sounds pretty good. I like hot cereal. You need to
>>>>upgrade your version of openoffice.org though.
>>>
>>> Why?
>>
>>I just noticed that the version number that created your PDF was an
>>older version (I am always curious to see what people use to create
>>PDFs). I think that there have been some minor security issues with
>>OO.org, but the likelihood of encountering OO.org based malware is so
>>low as to be negligible.
>>
>>There's little reason to upgrade if you are happy with what you have.
>
> Exactly. I use it create PDFs because I'm not going to shell out an
> unreasonable sum for Adobe Acrobat. As to other stuff, I have the
> Microsoft and Lotus office suites.

Office 2007 will create PDFs...when it comes out. I have it in beta on one
of my boxes.

And, the best PDF document creator is DeskPDF. About $30 and works great...
http://www.docudesk.com/

I've used it for about a year. You can DL the trial for free. And it works
great on 64-bit windows too.

While we're at it, one of the best anti virus apps out there is Avast.
And...it's free. No trail. It's free. And it also works on x64.

http://avast.com/

-Larry

Charles
August 23rd 06, 09:09 AM
On Tue, 22 Aug 2006 20:39:09 -0400, JMW
> wrote:

>Jason Earl > wrote:
>>JMW > writes:
>>> Jason Earl > wrote:
>>>>I noticed that Lyle has written quite a few books. Is this the one
>>>>to get?
>>>
>>> Cohen is a Lyle flankie. He'll tell you to buy 'em all.
>>
>>Isn't it "flunkie?" I'm just curious as it seems that I have seen
>>this particular spelling a couple of times now.
>>
>>I tend to take a very predictable tack when fishing for advice on
>>reading material. Once I have identified an author whose work I am
>>interested in sampling I ask someone that is a fan of the author for a
>>good starting point.
>>
>>Most authors with more than one book to their credit tend to have one
>>book which is considered their magnum opus. Either that, or they have
>>a book that is considered the best place to start for newbies.
>>Generally speaking, I have found that it saves time and energy if you
>>take the time to learn from someone else's experience. Especially if
>>the someone in question can be trusted.
>
>Lyle's stuff is always well-documented with scientific research. I'll
>grant him that.
>
>However, that said, I'm not sure how long Lyle should hold the
>monopoly on publishing a layman's version of a protein-sparing
>modified fast. Back in the early days of MFW, when Lyle first took an
>interest in cyclical ketogenic dieting and published a daily journal
>of his experiences, the hot titles were Dan Duchaine's "Body Opus" and
>Mauro DiPasquale's "Anabolic Diet." Eventually, all the details of
>cyclical ketogenic dieting became "open source" in MFW and on personal
>web sites. That was my source of information; I never bought any of
>the books.

McDonald is no more or less than an opportunist who re-vamped an old
idea and called it his own. If he wasn't such an abrasive arsehole I
would be the first to congratulate him on his business acumen.

>
>Eventually, I may change the nutrition page on my web site to a free
>nuts-and-bolts explanation of a protein-sparing modified fast. Of
>course, it will be my own version, and nobody will accuse me
>plagiarizing Lyle's book because, for reasons known to the old
>regulars of MFW, I don't buy Lyle's books.

Your personal differences with McDonald notwithstanding, your critical
'hostilities' concerning his cunning on-line entrepreneurial
activities are not without merit.

>Still, in order for it to
>be credible, I'll need to document it with copious footnotes from
>medical and scientific literature. I already have nearly all of the
>resource material, but right now, I have neither the time nor the
>inclination to put it all together, so Lyle's royalties are safe for a
>while.

There is so much information about protein sparing diets available via
Google, that it requires only the inclination (for whatever reason) to
produce an edition as good or better than McD's efforts.

However, John, don't forget your attributions, we don't want more MFW
"plagiarism scandals" now - do we!! ;o)

>
>I do have a pretty decent PSMF breakfast cereal if anyone wants it.

This preoccupation with excessive amounts of protein goes against good
dietary advice, even for those wanting to produce dramatic weight
loss.

Of course the 'body beautifuls' are looking for different results to
the rest of us, so they employ 'all sorts' of esoteric 'methods' to
achieve their aims! ;o)

I have read and inwardly digested (pun intended) Cohen's fawning
appraisal of McD's contribution to his (Cohen's) regime of yo-yo
dieting, and consider that much the same can be achieved with a much
more balanced low calories intake, with greater nutritional value and
more pleasurable eating.

I too have been yo-yo dieting for more years than I care to remember,
and regularly achieve much the same results Cohen has from his protein
sparing method. Horses for courses of course, and it is essentially
what works for the individual.

I don't recommend yo-yo dieting to anyone, but for some of us who want
to enjoy the good things in life, specifically those relating to
hedonistic eating and drinking, then there may be no better option.

Of course a proper and regular programme of structured exercise,
including the important yet dreaded cardio-vascular content, is also a
major part of such a lifestyle.

No advice would be complete without the usual rider to always consult
with your medical adviser before undertaking any exercise or dieting
programme - we don't want anyone dying on us do we?

Happy munching and crunching folks! ;o)

OmManiPadmeOmelet
August 23rd 06, 03:21 PM
In article >,
JMW > wrote:

> OmManiPadmeOmelet > wrote:
>
> >In article >,
> > Jason Earl > wrote:
> >
> >> OmManiPadmeOmelet > writes:
> >>
> >> > In article >,
> >> > Jason Earl > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Isn't it "flunkie?" I'm just curious as it seems that I have seen
> >> >> this particular spelling a couple of times now.
> >> >
> >> > IIRC, "Flankie" is an old inside list joke based on a mis-spelling
> >> > by a list member _ages_ ago.
> >> >
> >> > If you have the patience and time, you can probably google it. I
> >> > don't. My bedtime is in 2 minutes...
> >>
> >> That makes sense. Once could have been a misspelling, but I was
> >> pretty sure I had seen it several times.
> >>
> >> Jason
> >
> >Yes, you have... It took off from the original mis-spelling and has been
> >spelled that way ever since. That's the joke. ;-) And I believe it's
> >specific for Lyle.
>
> No. Avi first used it in an accusation leveled against Bill Roberts,
> seven years and five days ago.

Sorry... My bad memory. ;-)
--
Peace!
Om

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch"
-- Jack Nicholson

OmManiPadmeOmelet
August 23rd 06, 03:37 PM
In article >,
JMW > wrote:

> OmManiPadmeOmelet > wrote:
>
> >In article >,
> > JMW > wrote:
> >
> >> I do have a pretty decent PSMF breakfast cereal if anyone wants it.
> >
> ><raises hand> Please? ;-)
> >I can be reached at this e-mail address now, or you know the other
> >one....
>
> I'm not going to make a fortune by mass-producing it, so I'm not going
> to keep it secret:
>
> http://www.rustyiron.net/johns_hot_cereal.pdf

Only works with Acrobat on a mac... but that's ok. ;-)
Thank you. Looks interesting!

Have you discovered "Eden Foods" Black soybeans yet?
I've got some recipes that have turned out well with them.
They are almost pure protein and what carbs there are are mostly fiber.

The nutritional breakdown on the cans almost reads like science fiction.

And they are delicious. ;-d

Only 4.5 grams net carbs per can, but the fat is a bit high IMHO:

http://www.netrition.com/eden_black_soy_beans_page.html

One nice "Calorie free" food that is pretty much pure fiber is
Shirataki noodles:

http://www.konjacfoods.com/product/noodles.htm

For all practical purposes, these are a "non-food".
I know it's TMI but I've found that they pass thru undigested.

They do, however, make an excellent substitute for pasta in nearly any
pasta dish and make a nice base for stir fry whey marinated in a bit of
soy sauce. They have NO flavor on their own but will soak up whatever
they are soaked in. Texture is a bit rubbery but very do-able if you
like bean thread noodles (which are NOT low carb!)

I've even used Shirataki for italian dishes. It works.
--
Peace!
Om

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch"
-- Jack Nicholson

OmManiPadmeOmelet
August 23rd 06, 03:42 PM
In article >,
"David Cohen" > wrote:

>
> So, next time I see you, I'm gonna' give you a big kiss. In that manly
> Palestinian way. Don't bother protesting: I'm bigger than you, and I'm
> armed. So just accept the inevitable.

Nice report... ;-)

You've inspired me to get off my fat ass, and give it another shot.
I know it works, my willpower has simply sucked lately.

Jewely (the border collie) will thank you......
--
Peace!
Om

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch"
-- Jack Nicholson

OmManiPadmeOmelet
August 23rd 06, 03:44 PM
In article >, Dally >
wrote:

> OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
>
> > Yes, you have... It took off from the original mis-spelling and has been
> > spelled that way ever since. That's the joke. ;-) And I believe it's
> > specific for Lyle.
>
> I thought it was specific to Mistress Krista.
>
> Dally, a flankie

<shrugs> It's been awhile... and my memory is less than perfect. ;-)

JMW had it right methinks.

I'm still not on the Lyle forum at the moment but now that I have the
g-mail address, how do I join it?
--
Peace!
Om

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch"
-- Jack Nicholson

JMW
August 23rd 06, 05:00 PM
"David Cohen" > wrote:
>"JMW" > wrote
>> "David Cohen" > wrote:
>>>"Gooserider" > wrote
>>>> David---
>>>> What kind of results did you get, and in what time frame?
>>>
>>>Below are a few excerpts from posts I made to Lyle's forum last year,
>>>which
>>>I seem to recall I also posted here. They should answer your question.
>>>
>>>Thanks, Lyle
>>>One month on PSMF. Went from the 250's at about 30% BF to the 220's at
>>>about
>>>20% BF. (Don't fret the math. Variations in water/glycogen and my rather
>>>casual caliper technique. But they're close enough.) Probably continue
>>>until
>>>the 200's and about 10% BF. I have no interest in trying to maintain
>>>single
>>>digit body fat.
>>>
>>>Diet's been a snap. High protein and ketosis just kill my appetite. Have
>>>to
>>>struggle to get all the protein in. But no matter how much veges and fiber
>>>supplements and stool softener I use, I STILL have to do a once a week
>>>laxative dose, and the hard stools are making my hemorrhoid bleed! I know
>>>you've been accused of BEING a bloody asshole, but, in this case, you've
>>>GIVEN me a bloody asshole. Not in a prison way, luckily.
>>>
>>>Only exercise has been a little weight lifting and mostly cardio...walking
>>>the dog on work days, and mountain hiking with the dog on weekends. Which
>>>is
>>>more than you might think, since I have four day weekends every week.
>>>
>>>Only used one "cheat day" when my daughter and I drove up to the Best
>>>Friends Animal Sanctuary in Southern Utah. Haven't felt the need for more
>>>,
>>>yet.
>>>
>>>Part 2 Thanks Lyle!!
>>>
>>>Prior to the diet, my cholesterol and triglyceride numbers were so ****ing
>>>bad, I get depressed looking them up, so I won't. My MD (since fired for
>>>this among other reasons) wanted to put me on statins, but I insisted on
>>>diet and exercise first. He claimed the conventional "wisdom" that doing
>>>so
>>>would only make a 10% difference. But, take my word for it: when I say
>>>"too
>>>****ing high" I am SO not kidding.
>>>
>>>The results on various health markers and predictors from one month on the
>>>LMMPSMF:
>>>
>>>Total cholesterol went from "way too ****ing high" to 140. Excellent.
>>>Actually, a bit TOO low, but it'll go up after I start eating some carbs
>>>and
>>>fat.
>>>
>>>Triglycerides went from "way too ****ing high" to 76. Perfect.
>>>
>>>HDL (good cholesterol) went from "way too ****ing low" to 42. Very good.
>>>LDL (bad cholesterol) went from "way too ****ing high" to 83. Very good.
>>>
>>>Blood pressure went from 140s/90s (bad) to 110s/60s (excellent).
>>>
>>>Resting heart rate went from 80s-90s (bad) to 60s-70s (very good).
>>>
>>>As far as the myth that high protein intakes adversely affect kidney
>>>and/or
>>>liver function of otherwise healthy kidneys and livers, my liver and
>>>kidney
>>>function numbers were all normal.
>>>
>>>Oh, there were ketones in my urine :)
>>>
>>>Part 3 Thanks Lyle!! .
>>>
>>>To recap, Part 1 recounted my one month drop from 250s/30% body fat to the
>>>220s/20% BF. Part 2 described the extraordinary improvement in vital signs
>>>and blood lipid values.
>>>
>>>It's now been two months. I'm down to about 210 pounds and 17% body fat.
>>>The
>>>rate of weight loss has slowed, as expected, since my maintenance caloric
>>>requirement is much less at over 40 pounds lighter. To keep the same
>>>weight
>>>loss rate, I'd have to eat less or exercise more. Eating less would affect
>>>the protein sparing aspect of the Lyle McDonald Modified Protein Sparing
>>>Modified Fast (LMMPSMF). I don't have the time or desire to increase
>>>exercise right now.
>>>
>>>Part 4 Thanks Lyle!!
>>>
>>>As previously mentioned, my main mode of exercise on the Lyle McDonald
>>>Modified Protein Sparing Modified Fast is mountain hiking with the dog.
>>>There's this one hike that I've never bothered to try: hot, dry desert
>>>terrain; nearly 2000 feet elevation gain; steep, loose, difficult hiking.
>>>
>>>I made it to the top today in two hours, with no particular difficulty.
>>>But
>>>that's not the amazing part. The hiking shoes I wear are known as trail
>>>runners: very light shoes with a grippy lug sole and good longitudinal
>>>support but minimal lateral support, designed to, literally, run on
>>>trails.
>>>But I never used them that way, because the jarring to my knees and ankles
>>>was too severe. Well, today, I ran in the shoes. I was bouncing around up
>>>there like Tigger on meth. And no knee or ankle problems, because you have
>>>enabled me to lose nearly 50 pounds of fat while maintaining my fairly
>>>substantial leg muscle mass.
>>>
>>>So, next time I see you, I'm gonna' give you a big kiss. In that manly
>>>Palestinian way. Don't bother protesting: I'm bigger than you, and I'm
>>>armed. So just accept the inevitable.
>>
>> Reads like a Curt James post.
>
>Curt kisses half Palestinian speed skaters? He's such a slut!
>
>Other than my blatant ass kissing, was it like a Curt James post in some
>other way?

A bit more rambling than your usual fare, though certainly not to the
extent of Lyle's Body Opus Diaries. There are probably only a few of
us who remember those postings.

JMW
August 23rd 06, 05:06 PM
OmManiPadmeOmelet > wrote:

>In article >,
> JMW > wrote:
>
>> OmManiPadmeOmelet > wrote:
>>
>> >In article >,
>> > Jason Earl > wrote:
>> >
>> >> OmManiPadmeOmelet > writes:
>> >>
>> >> > In article >,
>> >> > Jason Earl > wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> Isn't it "flunkie?" I'm just curious as it seems that I have seen
>> >> >> this particular spelling a couple of times now.
>> >> >
>> >> > IIRC, "Flankie" is an old inside list joke based on a mis-spelling
>> >> > by a list member _ages_ ago.
>> >> >
>> >> > If you have the patience and time, you can probably google it. I
>> >> > don't. My bedtime is in 2 minutes...
>> >>
>> >> That makes sense. Once could have been a misspelling, but I was
>> >> pretty sure I had seen it several times.
>> >>
>> >> Jason
>> >
>> >Yes, you have... It took off from the original mis-spelling and has been
>> >spelled that way ever since. That's the joke. ;-) And I believe it's
>> >specific for Lyle.
>>
>> No. Avi first used it in an accusation leveled against Bill Roberts,
>> seven years and five days ago.
>
>Sorry... My bad memory. ;-)

I don't think you were around then ... even in an earlier incarnation.

Pez D Spencer
August 23rd 06, 05:41 PM
Larry Hodges wrote:
>
> Office 2007 will create PDFs...when it comes out. I have it in beta on one
> of my boxes.
>
> And, the best PDF document creator is DeskPDF. About $30 and works great...
> http://www.docudesk.com/
>
> I've used it for about a year. You can DL the trial for free. And it works
> great on 64-bit windows too.
>
> While we're at it, one of the best anti virus apps out there is Avast.
> And...it's free. No trail. It's free. And it also works on x64.
>
> http://avast.com/
>
> -Larry

thanks for the info. **** adobe and their acrobat software. you wanna
know just how many sales i lost when i worked for a software retailer
because adobe softs are just ridiculously overprices? a whole bunch!

i don't know how i feel about antivirus software...anymore, it's mostly
just scare tactics that the big ones like macafee and symantec use to
get you to buy their software.

i saw you post in the x64 group, and i meant to ask you what you think
of it.

Larry Hodges
August 23rd 06, 07:02 PM
"Pez D Spencer" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Larry Hodges wrote:
>>
>> Office 2007 will create PDFs...when it comes out. I have it in beta on
>> one
>> of my boxes.
>>
>> And, the best PDF document creator is DeskPDF. About $30 and works
>> great...
>> http://www.docudesk.com/
>>
>> I've used it for about a year. You can DL the trial for free. And it
>> works
>> great on 64-bit windows too.
>>
>> While we're at it, one of the best anti virus apps out there is Avast.
>> And...it's free. No trail. It's free. And it also works on x64.
>>
>> http://avast.com/
>>
>> -Larry
>
> thanks for the info. **** adobe and their acrobat software. you wanna
> know just how many sales i lost when i worked for a software retailer
> because adobe softs are just ridiculously overprices? a whole bunch!
>
> i don't know how i feel about antivirus software...anymore, it's mostly
> just scare tactics that the big ones like macafee and symantec use to
> get you to buy their software.
>
> i saw you post in the x64 group, and i meant to ask you what you think
> of it.

I've had it for about 10 months. I love it. But then all my hardware is
supported. There is a lot that isn't. And with Vista just around the
corner, there is no motivation for venders to write drivers for x64.

OTOH, it is more stable than XP x86. Basically, it's the 2003 Server code
base with an XP interface. 32-bit apps run about the same, but anything
written for 64-bit screams. Microsoft Visual Studio 2005 for instance has a
64-bit version. Games like HL2, FarCry and FEAR have native 64-bit
versions, and they are considerably faster. I do all my software
development and deployment on my x64 box. You can also run more memory.

If you have a 64-bit capable system, I would just wait for Vista. I have it
in Beta, and it will be really cool when it's finished. If you're
considering a new vid card, wait until the DirectX 10 cards are out. Should
be a few months.

Regarding AV, both Symantec and McAfee suck nut. I constantly run into
issues with them on my client's systems. Install McAfee, open Task Manager,
and watch the CPU hits from it. Symantec is a memory hog. Both are poorly
coded. And neither run on 64-bit platforms. Try Avast. Seriously.
Everybody in the x64 ng speaks very highly about it. Of course it runs on
x86 XP as well. Slim app, minimal overhead and does just what it's supposed
to.

-Larry

OmManiPadmeOmelet
August 23rd 06, 07:14 PM
In article >,
JMW > wrote:

> >> >> That makes sense. Once could have been a misspelling, but I was
> >> >> pretty sure I had seen it several times.
> >> >>
> >> >> Jason
> >> >
> >> >Yes, you have... It took off from the original mis-spelling and has been
> >> >spelled that way ever since. That's the joke. ;-) And I believe it's
> >> >specific for Lyle.
> >>
> >> No. Avi first used it in an accusation leveled against Bill Roberts,
> >> seven years and five days ago.
> >
> >Sorry... My bad memory. ;-)
>
> I don't think you were around then ... even in an earlier incarnation.

Most likely...

I think I started posting there around, what, sometime in 2002 or later.

<shrugs>
--
Peace!
Om

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch"
-- Jack Nicholson

Larry Hodges
August 23rd 06, 07:16 PM
"Pez D Spencer" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Larry Hodges wrote:
>>
>> Office 2007 will create PDFs...when it comes out. I have it in beta on
>> one
>> of my boxes.
>>
>> And, the best PDF document creator is DeskPDF. About $30 and works
>> great...
>> http://www.docudesk.com/
>>
>> I've used it for about a year. You can DL the trial for free. And it
>> works
>> great on 64-bit windows too.
>>
>> While we're at it, one of the best anti virus apps out there is Avast.
>> And...it's free. No trail. It's free. And it also works on x64.
>>
>> http://avast.com/
>>
>> -Larry
>
> thanks for the info. **** adobe and their acrobat software. you wanna
> know just how many sales i lost when i worked for a software retailer
> because adobe softs are just ridiculously overprices? a whole bunch!
>
> i don't know how i feel about antivirus software...anymore, it's mostly
> just scare tactics that the big ones like macafee and symantec use to
> get you to buy their software.
>
> i saw you post in the x64 group, and i meant to ask you what you think
> of it.

Oh, and as to whether or not you need AV protection...all I can say is I
like guys who don't have it. I make a lot of money from them. The last
system I had to scrub of viruses and worms took thee hours. About 280
infected files. Cost him $315 for my three hours. He now runs Avast.

-Larry

Lee Michaels
August 23rd 06, 08:00 PM
"Larry Hodges" > wrote in message
. ..
> "Pez D Spencer" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>>
>> Larry Hodges wrote:
>>>
>>> Office 2007 will create PDFs...when it comes out. I have it in beta on
>>> one
>>> of my boxes.
>>>
>>> And, the best PDF document creator is DeskPDF. About $30 and works
>>> great...
>>> http://www.docudesk.com/
>>>
>>> I've used it for about a year. You can DL the trial for free. And it
>>> works
>>> great on 64-bit windows too.
>>>
>>> While we're at it, one of the best anti virus apps out there is Avast.
>>> And...it's free. No trail. It's free. And it also works on x64.
>>>
>>> http://avast.com/
>>>
>>> -Larry
>>
>> thanks for the info. **** adobe and their acrobat software. you wanna
>> know just how many sales i lost when i worked for a software retailer
>> because adobe softs are just ridiculously overprices? a whole bunch!
>>
>> i don't know how i feel about antivirus software...anymore, it's mostly
>> just scare tactics that the big ones like macafee and symantec use to
>> get you to buy their software.
>>
>> i saw you post in the x64 group, and i meant to ask you what you think
>> of it.
>
> I've had it for about 10 months. I love it. But then all my hardware is
> supported. There is a lot that isn't. And with Vista just around the
> corner, there is no motivation for venders to write drivers for x64.
>
> OTOH, it is more stable than XP x86. Basically, it's the 2003 Server code
> base with an XP interface. 32-bit apps run about the same, but anything
> written for 64-bit screams. Microsoft Visual Studio 2005 for instance has
> a 64-bit version. Games like HL2, FarCry and FEAR have native 64-bit
> versions, and they are considerably faster. I do all my software
> development and deployment on my x64 box. You can also run more memory.
>
> If you have a 64-bit capable system, I would just wait for Vista. I have
> it in Beta, and it will be really cool when it's finished. If you're
> considering a new vid card, wait until the DirectX 10 cards are out.
> Should be a few months.
>
> Regarding AV, both Symantec and McAfee suck nut. I constantly run into
> issues with them on my client's systems. Install McAfee, open Task
> Manager, and watch the CPU hits from it. Symantec is a memory hog. Both
> are poorly coded. And neither run on 64-bit platforms. Try Avast.
> Seriously. Everybody in the x64 ng speaks very highly about it. Of course
> it runs on x86 XP as well. Slim app, minimal overhead and does just what
> it's supposed to.
>
> -Larry

Hello Larry,

I am just now seeing this. Thanks for the info. I run AVG for virus
protection and spam slueth for spam.

I am interested in your comments about vista. I run a lot of financial
applications that use huge, real time data feeds. This can cripple almost
any configuration. Particularly on multiple monitors. I have a big $800
quad card and it barely runs when the market volume goes above a certain
level. One of the big problem is that XP will only handle 2 gigs of memory
on board.

Combine that with a lot of computations, some applications slow to a crawl.
Even on some big iron. Now I know that you may not be an expert in multiple
monitors or financial software, but I thought I would ask you about vista.

Do you think that vista will be able to handle these kinds of applications
better than XP? The real limitations I am dealing with now are software.
Both XP and the applications software. Any increase in ability to handle
multiple monitors will be a big help too. Currently AMD CPU's can supoort
more mulitple monitors than Intel CPU's.

Any comments of any kind will be appreciated. Including speculation,
bull**** and scientific wild assed guesses. I am really looking forward to
some real 64 bit applications actually being supported by hardware and
operating systems available to mere mortals like myself. It will make my
life much easier.

Lee Michaels

David Cohen
August 23rd 06, 08:57 PM
JMW wrote:
> "David Cohen" > wrote:
> >"JMW" > wrote
> >> "David Cohen" > wrote:
> >>>"Gooserider" > wrote
> >>>> David---
> >>>> What kind of results did you get, and in what time frame?
> >>>
> >>>Below are a few excerpts from posts I made to Lyle's forum last year,
> >>>which
> >>>I seem to recall I also posted here. They should answer your question.
> >>>
> >>>Thanks, Lyle
> >>>One month on PSMF. Went from the 250's at about 30% BF to the 220's at
> >>>about
> >>>20% BF. (Don't fret the math. Variations in water/glycogen and my rather
> >>>casual caliper technique. But they're close enough.) Probably continue
> >>>until
> >>>the 200's and about 10% BF. I have no interest in trying to maintain
> >>>single
> >>>digit body fat.
> >>>
> >>>Diet's been a snap. High protein and ketosis just kill my appetite. Have
> >>>to
> >>>struggle to get all the protein in. But no matter how much veges and fiber
> >>>supplements and stool softener I use, I STILL have to do a once a week
> >>>laxative dose, and the hard stools are making my hemorrhoid bleed! I know
> >>>you've been accused of BEING a bloody asshole, but, in this case, you've
> >>>GIVEN me a bloody asshole. Not in a prison way, luckily.
> >>>
> >>>Only exercise has been a little weight lifting and mostly cardio...walking
> >>>the dog on work days, and mountain hiking with the dog on weekends. Which
> >>>is
> >>>more than you might think, since I have four day weekends every week.
> >>>
> >>>Only used one "cheat day" when my daughter and I drove up to the Best
> >>>Friends Animal Sanctuary in Southern Utah. Haven't felt the need for more
> >>>,
> >>>yet.
> >>>
> >>>Part 2 Thanks Lyle!!
> >>>
> >>>Prior to the diet, my cholesterol and triglyceride numbers were so ****ing
> >>>bad, I get depressed looking them up, so I won't. My MD (since fired for
> >>>this among other reasons) wanted to put me on statins, but I insisted on
> >>>diet and exercise first. He claimed the conventional "wisdom" that doing
> >>>so
> >>>would only make a 10% difference. But, take my word for it: when I say
> >>>"too
> >>>****ing high" I am SO not kidding.
> >>>
> >>>The results on various health markers and predictors from one month on the
> >>>LMMPSMF:
> >>>
> >>>Total cholesterol went from "way too ****ing high" to 140. Excellent.
> >>>Actually, a bit TOO low, but it'll go up after I start eating some carbs
> >>>and
> >>>fat.
> >>>
> >>>Triglycerides went from "way too ****ing high" to 76. Perfect.
> >>>
> >>>HDL (good cholesterol) went from "way too ****ing low" to 42. Very good.
> >>>LDL (bad cholesterol) went from "way too ****ing high" to 83. Very good.
> >>>
> >>>Blood pressure went from 140s/90s (bad) to 110s/60s (excellent).
> >>>
> >>>Resting heart rate went from 80s-90s (bad) to 60s-70s (very good).
> >>>
> >>>As far as the myth that high protein intakes adversely affect kidney
> >>>and/or
> >>>liver function of otherwise healthy kidneys and livers, my liver and
> >>>kidney
> >>>function numbers were all normal.
> >>>
> >>>Oh, there were ketones in my urine :)
> >>>
> >>>Part 3 Thanks Lyle!! .
> >>>
> >>>To recap, Part 1 recounted my one month drop from 250s/30% body fat to the
> >>>220s/20% BF. Part 2 described the extraordinary improvement in vital signs
> >>>and blood lipid values.
> >>>
> >>>It's now been two months. I'm down to about 210 pounds and 17% body fat.
> >>>The
> >>>rate of weight loss has slowed, as expected, since my maintenance caloric
> >>>requirement is much less at over 40 pounds lighter. To keep the same
> >>>weight
> >>>loss rate, I'd have to eat less or exercise more. Eating less would affect
> >>>the protein sparing aspect of the Lyle McDonald Modified Protein Sparing
> >>>Modified Fast (LMMPSMF). I don't have the time or desire to increase
> >>>exercise right now.
> >>>
> >>>Part 4 Thanks Lyle!!
> >>>
> >>>As previously mentioned, my main mode of exercise on the Lyle McDonald
> >>>Modified Protein Sparing Modified Fast is mountain hiking with the dog.
> >>>There's this one hike that I've never bothered to try: hot, dry desert
> >>>terrain; nearly 2000 feet elevation gain; steep, loose, difficult hiking.
> >>>
> >>>I made it to the top today in two hours, with no particular difficulty.
> >>>But
> >>>that's not the amazing part. The hiking shoes I wear are known as trail
> >>>runners: very light shoes with a grippy lug sole and good longitudinal
> >>>support but minimal lateral support, designed to, literally, run on
> >>>trails.
> >>>But I never used them that way, because the jarring to my knees and ankles
> >>>was too severe. Well, today, I ran in the shoes. I was bouncing around up
> >>>there like Tigger on meth. And no knee or ankle problems, because you have
> >>>enabled me to lose nearly 50 pounds of fat while maintaining my fairly
> >>>substantial leg muscle mass.
> >>>
> >>>So, next time I see you, I'm gonna' give you a big kiss. In that manly
> >>>Palestinian way. Don't bother protesting: I'm bigger than you, and I'm
> >>>armed. So just accept the inevitable.
> >>
> >> Reads like a Curt James post.
> >
> >Curt kisses half Palestinian speed skaters? He's such a slut!
> >
> >Other than my blatant ass kissing, was it like a Curt James post in some
> >other way?
>
> A bit more rambling than your usual fare

Well, it was excerpts only, and from four different posts. It therefore
doesn't have my usual brilliant, though modest, composition style.

David

Larry Hodges
August 23rd 06, 09:04 PM
"Lee Michaels" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Larry Hodges" > wrote in message
> . ..
>> "Pez D Spencer" > wrote in message
>> ups.com...
>>>
>>> Larry Hodges wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Office 2007 will create PDFs...when it comes out. I have it in beta on
>>>> one
>>>> of my boxes.
>>>>
>>>> And, the best PDF document creator is DeskPDF. About $30 and works
>>>> great...
>>>> http://www.docudesk.com/
>>>>
>>>> I've used it for about a year. You can DL the trial for free. And it
>>>> works
>>>> great on 64-bit windows too.
>>>>
>>>> While we're at it, one of the best anti virus apps out there is Avast.
>>>> And...it's free. No trail. It's free. And it also works on x64.
>>>>
>>>> http://avast.com/
>>>>
>>>> -Larry
>>>
>>> thanks for the info. **** adobe and their acrobat software. you wanna
>>> know just how many sales i lost when i worked for a software retailer
>>> because adobe softs are just ridiculously overprices? a whole bunch!
>>>
>>> i don't know how i feel about antivirus software...anymore, it's mostly
>>> just scare tactics that the big ones like macafee and symantec use to
>>> get you to buy their software.
>>>
>>> i saw you post in the x64 group, and i meant to ask you what you think
>>> of it.
>>
>> I've had it for about 10 months. I love it. But then all my hardware is
>> supported. There is a lot that isn't. And with Vista just around the
>> corner, there is no motivation for venders to write drivers for x64.
>>
>> OTOH, it is more stable than XP x86. Basically, it's the 2003 Server
>> code base with an XP interface. 32-bit apps run about the same, but
>> anything written for 64-bit screams. Microsoft Visual Studio 2005 for
>> instance has a 64-bit version. Games like HL2, FarCry and FEAR have
>> native 64-bit versions, and they are considerably faster. I do all my
>> software development and deployment on my x64 box. You can also run more
>> memory.
>>
>> If you have a 64-bit capable system, I would just wait for Vista. I have
>> it in Beta, and it will be really cool when it's finished. If you're
>> considering a new vid card, wait until the DirectX 10 cards are out.
>> Should be a few months.
>>
>> Regarding AV, both Symantec and McAfee suck nut. I constantly run into
>> issues with them on my client's systems. Install McAfee, open Task
>> Manager, and watch the CPU hits from it. Symantec is a memory hog. Both
>> are poorly coded. And neither run on 64-bit platforms. Try Avast.
>> Seriously. Everybody in the x64 ng speaks very highly about it. Of
>> course it runs on x86 XP as well. Slim app, minimal overhead and does
>> just what it's supposed to.
>>
>> -Larry
>
> Hello Larry,
>
> I am just now seeing this. Thanks for the info. I run AVG for virus
> protection and spam slueth for spam.
>
> I am interested in your comments about vista. I run a lot of financial
> applications that use huge, real time data feeds. This can cripple almost
> any configuration. Particularly on multiple monitors. I have a big $800
> quad card and it barely runs when the market volume goes above a certain
> level. One of the big problem is that XP will only handle 2 gigs of
> memory on board.

x64 supports up to 128gb of RAM. The issue here would be finding a mobo to
support that much. Look into some server mobos. Tyan is a good brand.
SuperMicro also. I've used both in the past. They're not cheap.

My CPU is an AMD Athlon x2 4800+. Intel is finally back in the mix with
their Core 2 Duo. Not the Core Duo, but with the "2". Read up on it on
Tom's Hardward. Kicks ass on AMD.

> Combine that with a lot of computations, some applications slow to a
> crawl. Even on some big iron. Now I know that you may not be an expert in
> multiple monitors or financial software, but I thought I would ask you
> about vista.

I also run two monitors. Don't know how many you're running.

The one bottleneck not considered by most is hard drive throughput.
Everybody looks at CPU, RAM, vid card and just pick the HDD based on how
many GB it will store. You may have a fast CPU, lots of RAM and a 64-bit
OS, but if you can't deliver the data from the HDDs, everything slows down.
Consider going SCSI if you have the money. Not cheap, but you can get 15k
rpm drives. Or if you're going to stay SATA, go with Western Digital
Raptors. They're 10k with respectable performance. There are no 15k rpm
non-SCSI drives.

And if you REALLY want to speed things up, put together a RAID0 array. You
can put from 2 to 4 disks together, and your computer sees them as one. I
have two 15k U320 Fujitsu 74gb drives in RAID0 on an Adaptec dual channel
U320 RAID card. It's so fast, it's scary. With today's hardware, the
bottleneck is usually the data delivery in cases like yours.

You can also put a couple of SATA Raptors into a RAID. Not as fast as U320
SCSI, but much better than anything else SATA based.

Most SATA drives have a decent burst rate, but fall short in sustained
throughput, which is what you need. It's like a water hose. You bend it
over. When you release it, you get the initial burst of water, then it
slows to it's normal flow. RAID, especially SCSI RAID, allows for that flow
to remain higher because the data pipe is larger. i.e. a larger hose.

Go here and download HDTach. It's free, and allows you to benchmark your
HDDs. http://simplisoftware.com/Public/index.php?request=HdTach

Run the test. You'll most likely see the graph drop off through the test.
That's your throughput dropping off. Mine stays consistant all the way
across the top of the graph on my RAID0 array. I have three other SCSI
drives in this system. They drop off, but not as much as a SATA HDD.

> Do you think that vista will be able to handle these kinds of applications
> better than XP? The real limitations I am dealing with now are software.
> Both XP and the applications software. Any increase in ability to handle
> multiple monitors will be a big help too. Currently AMD CPU's can supoort
> more mulitple monitors than Intel CPU's.

Vista will be the biggest OS improvement since going from DOS to Win95. It
will smoke. If you can't wait for Vista, x64 is great. I love it. Have no
idea how many monitors Vista will support however.

> Any comments of any kind will be appreciated. Including speculation,
> bull**** and scientific wild assed guesses. I am really looking forward
> to some real 64 bit applications actually being supported by hardware and
> operating systems available to mere mortals like myself. It will make my
> life much easier.
>
> Lee Michaels

Regarding 64-bit:

The transition from 32-bit to 64-bit will happen much faster than it did
from 16 to 32-bit. There are a couple of reasons for that. First, a large
percentage of current equipment is 64-bit already capable. All of the AMD
64 CPUs and some of Intel's as well. Current Core Duo is NOT however. The
new Core 2 Duo is. All new CPU architecture from both vendors will be
64-bit.

Second, Microsoft is going to push the 64-bit transition, and everybody
knows they drive the market. One reason for that is performance. They're
trying to quell competition from Linux and Unix, which have had 64-bit
versions for quite some time.

-Larry

August 23rd 06, 09:22 PM
Hi..

If you want to create PDFs - you don't have to pay for software - just
check out http://opensourcealternative.to/acrobat for free open source
alternatives for all well-known commercial products.

best regards,
Anders Rasmussen
webmaster
Open Source Alternative - www.osalt.com

Tom Anderson
August 23rd 06, 09:45 PM
On Tue, 22 Aug 2006, Curt James wrote:

> Jen wrote:
>
>> So Curt, has it worked for you?
>
> And with The Abs Diet, the continued camaraderie of MFW, and, yeah,
> yours truly actually getting to the gym, I know I can continue to
> improve.

Wait - you *like* the way we treat you? God damn it, we're going to have
to work harder.

tom

--
Gotta treat 'em mean to make 'em scream.

Tom Anderson
August 23rd 06, 09:48 PM
On Wed, 23 Aug 2006, OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:

> In article >,
> JMW > wrote:
>
>> OmManiPadmeOmelet > wrote:
>>
>>> In article >,
>>> JMW > wrote:
>>>
>>>> I do have a pretty decent PSMF breakfast cereal if anyone wants it.
>>>
>>> <raises hand> Please? ;-)
>>> I can be reached at this e-mail address now, or you know the other
>>> one....
>>
>> I'm not going to make a fortune by mass-producing it, so I'm not going
>> to keep it secret:
>>
>> http://www.rustyiron.net/johns_hot_cereal.pdf
>
> Only works with Acrobat on a mac...

Works with Schubert PDF Browser 1.2.3 in Firefox 1.5.0.6 on OS X 10.2.8
over here.

> One nice "Calorie free" food that is pretty much pure fiber is
> Shirataki noodles:
>
> http://www.konjacfoods.com/product/noodles.htm

Wow.

> They do, however, make an excellent substitute for pasta in nearly any
> pasta dish and make a nice base for stir fry whey marinated in a bit of
> soy sauce. They have NO flavor on their own but will soak up whatever
> they are soaked in. Texture is a bit rubbery but very do-able if you
> like bean thread noodles (which are NOT low carb!)

How do they compare in texture to udon noodles? That's probably the
rubberist kind of noodle i've eaten myself.

tom

--
Gotta treat 'em mean to make 'em scream.

OmManiPadmeOmelet
August 23rd 06, 09:55 PM
In article >,
Tom Anderson > wrote:

> > One nice "Calorie free" food that is pretty much pure fiber is
> > Shirataki noodles:
> >
> > http://www.konjacfoods.com/product/noodles.htm
>
> Wow.

Agreed.
Next best thing to lettuce as a stomach filler.

>
> > They do, however, make an excellent substitute for pasta in nearly any
> > pasta dish and make a nice base for stir fry whey marinated in a bit of
> > soy sauce. They have NO flavor on their own but will soak up whatever
> > they are soaked in. Texture is a bit rubbery but very do-able if you
> > like bean thread noodles (which are NOT low carb!)
>
> How do they compare in texture to udon noodles? That's probably the
> rubberist kind of noodle i've eaten myself.
>
> tom

Similar... :-) I have yet to find a use for the cake form that can also
be found at the oriental markets. I'm open to suggestions.

Udon is also close to bean thread in texture.
These soak up flavors better IMHO.

A bit difficult to find sometimes, they get snarfed up by low carbers
pretty quickly! Sometimes it pays to hang out on the low carbers lists.
That's where I also learned about black soybeans.

I pay anywhere from $.99 to $1.39 for 7 oz. They are in a wet packet so
found in the refrigerated section.

On a side note, the spellchecker did not cough at the word "snarfed".
Must be trained in internet slang. <lol>
--
Peace!
Om

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch"
-- Jack Nicholson

Curt James
August 24th 06, 02:00 AM
Tom Anderson wrote:
> Curt James wrote:
> > Jen wrote:
> >
> >> So Curt, has it worked for you?
> >
> > And with The Abs Diet, the continued camaraderie of
> > MFW, and, yeah, yours truly actually getting to the
> > gym, I know I can continue to improve.
>
> Wait - you *like* the way we treat you?

heh

> God damn it, we're going to have to work harder.

Increased intensity is typically a good thing, right?

> tom

--
Curt

Pez D Spencer
August 24th 06, 02:14 AM
Larry Hodges wrote:
>
> Oh, and as to whether or not you need AV protection...all I can say is I
> like guys who don't have it. I make a lot of money from them. The last
> system I had to scrub of viruses and worms took thee hours. About 280
> infected files. Cost him $315 for my three hours. He now runs Avast.
>
> -Larry

i believe that most people need av software because they don't know how
to secure a machine. i know for a fact that a windows machine can be
secured down if you know what you're doing and don't go to places or
use software that just invites an infection.

i'm familiar with bringing machines back from catastrophes, and know
that just one trojan can ruin your day...sometimes to the point where
only the proper use of recovery console can bring it back.

so, yeah, i agree with you that most people should be running an av
soft. personally, i just harden xp up real tight and use defender.

Pez D Spencer
August 24th 06, 02:23 AM
Larry Hodges wrote:
>
> Second, Microsoft is going to push the 64-bit transition, and everybody
> knows they drive the market. One reason for that is performance. They're
> trying to quell competition from Linux and Unix, which have had 64-bit
> versions for quite some time.
>
> -Larry

so, you really think that the core 2 duo is better than the high end
amd x2's?

i have an older athlon 64 and even it screams compared to either a
pentium 4 or a celeron.

(i hope this doesn't turn into an os x thread.)

Lee Michaels
August 24th 06, 05:07 AM
"Larry Hodges" > wrote
>
> I also run two monitors. Don't know how many you're running.
>

Presently I run four monitors at one station and two at the other. But
future configurations could run from six to as many as eighteen per
computer. And multiple computers at each station as well.

I am doing some prototype work for these applications. I will have to
design new workstations to mount all of these monitors on swingarms. I will
even have to put in some kind of air movement/cooling system to handle the
heat.

I am pushing the envelope here. I am seeking to put into a small space much
of the capability of a financial research office. It may take me a year or
so to do this. Depends on the funding as to whether I will actually get to
do this. But if it happens, I an going to have some fun with it.


> The one bottleneck not considered by most is hard drive throughput.
> Everybody looks at CPU, RAM, vid card and just pick the HDD based on how
> many GB it will store. You may have a fast CPU, lots of RAM and a 64-bit
> OS, but if you can't deliver the data from the HDDs, everything slows
> down. Consider going SCSI if you have the money. Not cheap, but you can
> get 15k rpm drives. Or if you're going to stay SATA, go with Western
> Digital Raptors. They're 10k with respectable performance. There are no
> 15k rpm non-SCSI drives.
>
> And if you REALLY want to speed things up, put together a RAID0 array.
> You can put from 2 to 4 disks together, and your computer sees them as
> one. I have two 15k U320 Fujitsu 74gb drives in RAID0 on an Adaptec dual
> channel U320 RAID card. It's so fast, it's scary. With today's hardware,
> the bottleneck is usually the data delivery in cases like yours.
>
> You can also put a couple of SATA Raptors into a RAID. Not as fast as
> U320 SCSI, but much better than anything else SATA based.
>
> Most SATA drives have a decent burst rate, but fall short in sustained
> throughput, which is what you need. It's like a water hose. You bend it
> over. When you release it, you get the initial burst of water, then it
> slows to it's normal flow. RAID, especially SCSI RAID, allows for that
> flow to remain higher because the data pipe is larger. i.e. a larger
> hose.
>
> Go here and download HDTach. It's free, and allows you to benchmark your
> HDDs. http://simplisoftware.com/Public/index.php?request=HdTach
>
> Run the test. You'll most likely see the graph drop off through the test.
> That's your throughput dropping off. Mine stays consistant all the way
> across the top of the graph on my RAID0 array. I have three other SCSI
> drives in this system. They drop off, but not as much as a SATA HDD.
>

I run a raid system now on two hardrives. Don't know the specs though.



> Vista will be the biggest OS improvement since going from DOS to Win95.
> It will smoke. If you can't wait for Vista, x64 is great. I love it.
> Have no idea how many monitors Vista will support however.
>

With the AMD chips, some workarounds are being created that increase the
number of monitors you can run. The big name quad cards all suck. A good
mother board for multi monitor setups would sell to several markets very
well.



>
> The transition from 32-bit to 64-bit will happen much faster than it did
> from 16 to 32-bit. There are a couple of reasons for that. First, a
> large percentage of current equipment is 64-bit already capable. All of
> the AMD 64 CPUs and some of Intel's as well. Current Core Duo is NOT
> however. The new Core 2 Duo is. All new CPU architecture from both
> vendors will be 64-bit.
>
> Second, Microsoft is going to push the 64-bit transition, and everybody
> knows they drive the market. One reason for that is performance. They're
> trying to quell competition from Linux and Unix, which have had 64-bit
> versions for quite some time.


And we are going to see some monumental changes in the players/software who
provide software to financial traders, investors and research people.

There are major applications out there that are still operating on 16 bits.
Even though the software is mature and written well, it just can not handle
much volume of data before it freezes up.

There is a hot new upstart company that has a basic charting package. But it
is written in 64 bit and it is faster than anything out there. And the
developer is constantly updating the software every month. The software is
cheap and pretty good. In a year or two, it could become a major player. And
part of it is the 64 bit architecture. I can only imagine how fast it will
go on the new chips and vista.

Lee

Curt James
August 24th 06, 05:57 AM
Cohen wrote:
[...]
> >>So, next time I see you, I'm gonna' give you a big kiss. In that manly
> >>Palestinian way. Don't bother protesting: I'm bigger than you, and I'm
> >>armed. So just accept the inevitable.
> >
> > Reads like a Curt James post.

Being compared to Cohen, what could be nicer?

> <snip> blatant ass kissing, <snip>

Ack! I am cut to the quick.

> Curt kisses half Palestinian speed skaters?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v108/curt_james/MFW/CathyTurner.jpg

Would you believe she's half Palestinian? How about 1/32? No?

> He's such a slut!

Me? No, not at all. However that does remind me of a truly tasteless
joke...

Q: What's the difference between a slut and a bitch?
A: A slut will have sex with anyone, a bitch will have sex with anyone
but you.

--
Curt

Larry Hodges
August 24th 06, 09:52 AM
"Pez D Spencer" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Larry Hodges wrote:
>>
>> Second, Microsoft is going to push the 64-bit transition, and everybody
>> knows they drive the market. One reason for that is performance.
>> They're
>> trying to quell competition from Linux and Unix, which have had 64-bit
>> versions for quite some time.
>>
>> -Larry
>
> so, you really think that the core 2 duo is better than the high end
> amd x2's?
>
> i have an older athlon 64 and even it screams compared to either a
> pentium 4 or a celeron.
>
> (i hope this doesn't turn into an os x thread.)

It's not what I think. It's what the bencharks think...

http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/07/14/core2_duo_knocks_out_athlon_64/

And I'm an AMD guy.

-Larry

OmManiPadmeOmelet
August 24th 06, 03:15 PM
In article . com>,
"Curt James" > wrote:

> > He's such a slut!
>
> Me? No, not at all. However that does remind me of a truly tasteless
> joke...
>
> Q: What's the difference between a slut and a bitch?
> A: A slut will have sex with anyone, a bitch will have sex with anyone
> but you.
>
> --
> Curt

Not sure why but when I read this on Google groups last night at work,
it had me LAMO...... ;-)

Thanks!
--
Peace!
Om

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch"
-- Jack Nicholson

Pez D Spencer
August 24th 06, 04:53 PM
Larry Hodges wrote:
>
> It's not what I think. It's what the bencharks think...
> And I'm an AMD guy.
>
> -Larry

if anything, i might put a woodcrest into something 'cause conroe isn't
truly a 64-bit architecture.

i guess i'm just gonna hafta compare the price:performance ratio...when
it comes down to it, i'll probably go for the highest fx model that's
reclassified into the 4000+ series. multi-core architecture is the
wave of the future, but i don't think multi-threaded code is there yet.

slightly off topic--anyone who's interested in reading about sony's
cell chip can read my interview with ibm's chief architect of the cell
broadband engine:

http://sixteenbit.blogspot.com/2006/03/soul-of-cell_09.html

Neil Gendzwill
August 24th 06, 05:03 PM
Pez D Spencer wrote:
> multi-core architecture is the
> wave of the future, but i don't think multi-threaded code is there yet.

Depends what you're doing. The apps I work on are typically strongly
multi-threaded, but then I'm doing big-buck custom work running under Linux.

Neil

Curt James
August 24th 06, 05:16 PM
OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
> "Curt James" wrote:

Cohen wrote re yours truly:
> > > He's such a slut!
> >
> > Me? No, not at all. However that does remind me of a
> > truly tasteless joke...
> >
> > Q: What's the difference between a slut and a bitch?
> > A: A slut will have sex with anyone, a bitch will have
> > sex with anyone but you.
>
> Not sure why but when I read this on Google groups last
> night at work, it had me LAMO...... ;-)

Semantics at its best!

> Thanks!

heh :o)

Thank the guy at Gold's who told me that joke. Actually, I Googled to
make sure I got the words right. (Terrible at retelling a joke.) Uh...
did I say joke? I meant Terribly Rude Story, of course.

The gym seems to be the last bastion of male chauvinism. There, I'm
guessing, you'll hear things that many would be reluctant to offer in
the workplace, their homes, or any other gathering place. I, of course,
being the gentleman that I am, simply looked at the man, shook my head
in disappointment, and handed him a NOW brochure.

--
Curt

Pez D Spencer
August 24th 06, 05:37 PM
Neil Gendzwill wrote:
> Pez D Spencer wrote:
> > multi-core architecture is the
> > wave of the future, but i don't think multi-threaded code is there yet.
>
> Depends what you're doing. The apps I work on are typically strongly
> multi-threaded, but then I'm doing big-buck custom work running under Linux.
>
> Neil

man, i just don't like linux...i hate linux with a passion that most
people reserve for disdain of microsoft.

i've used suse, and the only good thing that could come of that is
novell going out of business.

i've used fedora core...what's the advantage of kde's win95 desktop
rip-off, again? and how come i gotta jump through hoops to mount a
floppy?

i worked for apple for four months and can tell you that os x isn't
"all that" no matter what their 2% of the computing public says.

i look at linux the way the motion picutre industry looks at stephen
dorf...he's always about to be the "next big thing." uh, for the past
twelve or so years...

that being said, we'll see where linux goes 'cause it's the embedded os
in sony's ps3. i'm willing to ignore my past experiences with linux if
its implementation on the ps3 is good.

OmManiPadmeOmelet
August 24th 06, 05:56 PM
In article om>,
"Curt James" > wrote:

> OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
> > "Curt James" wrote:
>
> Cohen wrote re yours truly:
> > > > He's such a slut!
> > >
> > > Me? No, not at all. However that does remind me of a
> > > truly tasteless joke...
> > >
> > > Q: What's the difference between a slut and a bitch?
> > > A: A slut will have sex with anyone, a bitch will have
> > > sex with anyone but you.
> >
> > Not sure why but when I read this on Google groups last
> > night at work, it had me LAMO...... ;-)
>
> Semantics at its best!
>
> > Thanks!
>
> heh :o)
>
> Thank the guy at Gold's who told me that joke. Actually, I Googled to
> make sure I got the words right. (Terrible at retelling a joke.) Uh...
> did I say joke? I meant Terribly Rude Story, of course.
>
> The gym seems to be the last bastion of male chauvinism. There, I'm
> guessing, you'll hear things that many would be reluctant to offer in
> the workplace, their homes, or any other gathering place. I, of course,
> being the gentleman that I am, simply looked at the man, shook my head
> in disappointment, and handed him a NOW brochure.

And then shared it anyway... <lol>

I did tell it to my co-worker.
She smiled and commented "typical male attitude".
Some women understand men better than you might want them to!

Granted, it was tasteless, but ironic.
I've developed a real appreciation for irony since becoming a regular
'netizen.
--
Peace!
Om

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch"
-- Jack Nicholson

Jason Earl
August 24th 06, 06:22 PM
"Pez D Spencer" > writes:

> i look at linux the way the motion picutre industry looks at stephen
> dorf...he's always about to be the "next big thing." uh, for the
> past twelve or so years...

I've been using Linux on my desktop since '96, and so I tend to see
things a bit differently than most computer users. The thing that
makes Linux dangerous is that no matter what happens it isn't going
away. Unlike Mac OS X or Windows there's no company that could go
bankrupt, or shift directions. What's more, unlike Microsoft, "Linux"
doesn't have to convince all of its users every couple of years that
they really need a new operating system.

In the short run Linux also helps keep Microsoft honest, as it gives
customers a workable alternative. There's little question that
Windows XP and Windows Server 2003 are better OSes than they would
have been without some competition.

Either way, if you work in technology it's probably best to have some
Linux knowledge. Linux on the desktop is not a particularly great
short term threat (at least in the U.S.), but even Dell will admit
that over 25% of its servers come pre-installed with Linux, and Dell's
on the trailing edge of Linux adoption.

My guess is that unless Microsoft makes a huge mistake Linux on the
desktop is going to continue to be the "next big thing" for a very
long time. I like my Linux desktop, but I realize that I am hardly a
mainstream computer user :). On the other hand, I don't see Linux
going away anytime soon, and there is little denying that Linux is
improving at a pretty furious rate.

Jason

Neil Gendzwill
August 24th 06, 06:36 PM
Pez D Spencer wrote:
>
> man, i just don't like linux...i hate linux with a passion that most
> people reserve for disdain of microsoft.

I was similarily skeptical. We used to be an HP house and all the stuff
that we do now was done under HPUX. But a few years ago we had a
contract where the solution was a large number (hundreds) of
single-board computers running some kind of Unix. The licensing fees
for HPUX would have made our bid uncompetitive, so we ported our code to
Linux and hoped for the best. We left HPUX on the main servers
controlling the SBCs. Turned out to be way more solid than we expected,
and so our next project we did the main servers in Linux too and haven't
looked back. We can be way more competitive on bids using PC-style
servers than we were with HP's overpriced hardware and ridiculous
licensing fees (20K per target if memory serves).

Neil

Curt James
August 24th 06, 06:43 PM
OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
> "Curt James" > wrote:
[...]

re retelling a tasteless joke

> And then shared it anyway... <lol>

ONLY as a cautionary tale, of course. Yes, simply as an example of
what's inappropriate. ;o)

> I did tell it to my co-worker.

No!

> She smiled and commented "typical male attitude".
> Some women understand men better than you might
> want them to!

Absolutely.

> Granted, it was tasteless, but ironic.
> I've developed a real appreciation for irony since becoming
> a regular 'netizen.

I'll run the risk and compliment you on your fine 'netizenship, Om.

--
Curt

Pez D Spencer
August 24th 06, 06:52 PM
Neil Gendzwill wrote:
> The licensing fees
> for HPUX would have made our bid uncompetitive, so we ported our code to
> Linux and hoped for the best. We left HPUX on the main servers
> controlling the SBCs. Turned out to be way more solid than we expected,
> and so our next project we did the main servers in Linux too and haven't
> looked back.

what distro are you using? debian?

Tom Anderson
August 24th 06, 07:17 PM
On Thu, 24 Aug 2006, Pez D Spencer wrote:

> slightly off topic--anyone who's interested in reading about sony's cell
> chip can read my interview with ibm's chief architect of the cell
> broadband engine:
>
> http://sixteenbit.blogspot.com/2006/03/soul-of-cell_09.html

Hmm. He doesn't give a lot away, does he? The real mystery of Cell is how
you're supposed to program the bloody thing; it's not like you'll just
have to fire up your special Cell compiler and feed normal C into it,
despite what the eggheads at T. J. Watson may think. It's going to be a
specialised business, like writing pixel shaders or DSP programming, only
a million times worse. I reckon the Cell lives or dies by the quality of
the standard library that comes with it - if you can just call into
ready-prepared routines to do all your heavy lifting, fine, but if
ordinary programmers have to program the SPEs directly ...

tom

--
FREQUENT VIOLENT BLOODY

Neil Gendzwill
August 24th 06, 08:02 PM
Pez D Spencer wrote:
>
> what distro are you using? debian?

Red Hat but about to switch to CentOS

Neil

OmManiPadmeOmelet
August 24th 06, 08:10 PM
In article om>,
"Curt James" > wrote:

> OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
> > "Curt James" > wrote:
> [...]
>
> re retelling a tasteless joke
>
> > And then shared it anyway... <lol>
>
> ONLY as a cautionary tale, of course. Yes, simply as an example of
> what's inappropriate. ;o)
>
> > I did tell it to my co-worker.
>
> No!

I had to explain to her why I was laughing so hard. ;-)

>
> > She smiled and commented "typical male attitude".
> > Some women understand men better than you might
> > want them to!
>
> Absolutely.
>
> > Granted, it was tasteless, but ironic.
> > I've developed a real appreciation for irony since becoming
> > a regular 'netizen.
>
> I'll run the risk and compliment you on your fine 'netizenship, Om.

heh, it's been a painful learning experience at times....
I still make mistakes. <sigh>
--
Peace!
Om

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch"
-- Jack Nicholson

Larry Hodges
August 25th 06, 01:40 AM
"Pez D Spencer" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Larry Hodges wrote:
>>
>> It's not what I think. It's what the bencharks think...
>> And I'm an AMD guy.
>>
>> -Larry
>
> if anything, i might put a woodcrest into something 'cause conroe isn't
> truly a 64-bit architecture.
>
> i guess i'm just gonna hafta compare the price:performance ratio...when
> it comes down to it, i'll probably go for the highest fx model that's
> reclassified into the 4000+ series. multi-core architecture is the
> wave of the future, but i don't think multi-threaded code is there yet.

The AMD Athlon 64 x2 4400+ is the sweet spot. Same L2 cache as the 4800+,
and not that much slower. Of course, you can pick up the 4800+ for around
$300 now anyway. The FX isn't much faster, and is a bunch more money.

And what are you talking about regarding multi-threaded? A TON of current
apps are multi-threaded. Not only that, the benefit of a multi-cpu system
is multi-tasking. You can burn a DVD, play a game, check email or continue
working at the same time. I'll run defrag or back up to my DAT, and
continue working without a slowdown.

-Larry

Pez D Spencer
August 25th 06, 03:15 AM
Larry Hodges wrote:
>
> The AMD Athlon 64 x2 4400+ is the sweet spot. Same L2 cache as the 4800+,
> and not that much slower. Of course, you can pick up the 4800+ for around
> $300 now anyway. The FX isn't much faster, and is a bunch more money.

i'll have to take a look at what's decent with regards to price versus
performance when it's time to build a new system. hopefully, my 2800+
rig will last forever and never need to be scrapped. the conroe chips
are surprisingly cheap for the mid-range ones...i thought they'd be
more expensive, but i'd hold out for woodcrest if i went that way,
anyway.

i'm shooting for an upgraded machine and vista in 2008. i've read so
much info on the beta and alpha builds that i'm pretty sure how i feel
about the os itself. i don't think i need it and i'm perfectly happy
with xp. xp does everything i need it to do. the main thing i was
interested in was winfs which appears on the surface to have been a
project that was completely scrapped, but lives on in its component
pieces. i'm curious as to where those little chunks of code will show
up. i'm sitting next to a xeon server with sql server on it, and i
just don't think that the home user ever really needed a relational
database structure perched on top of ntfs. maybe in the future people
will search through their data this way, but not when their hard drive
is only stuffed with music stolen through limewire and movies they've
"shared" to themselves with bittorrent clients.

>
> And what are you talking about regarding multi-threaded? A TON of current
> apps are multi-threaded. Not only that, the benefit of a multi-cpu system
> is multi-tasking. You can burn a DVD, play a game, check email or continue
> working at the same time. I'll run defrag or back up to my DAT, and
> continue working without a slowdown.
>
> -Larry

i dunno. maybe i'm just a bit confused about the whole multi-threaded
code situation as it stands. i mean, yeah, a good os can split all
kinds of things up into multiple threads and take advantage of extra
cores in there, but it's my understanding that specific code that's
specifically written to take advantage of multi-core architecture just
hasn't blossomed into its own yet...no one's perfected it, or the best
way to implement it. but, maybe i'm misunderstanding the current state
of the art...

Larry Hodges
August 25th 06, 05:46 AM
"Pez D Spencer" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Larry Hodges wrote:
>>
>> The AMD Athlon 64 x2 4400+ is the sweet spot. Same L2 cache as the
>> 4800+,
>> and not that much slower. Of course, you can pick up the 4800+ for
>> around
>> $300 now anyway. The FX isn't much faster, and is a bunch more money.
>
> i'll have to take a look at what's decent with regards to price versus
> performance when it's time to build a new system. hopefully, my 2800+
> rig will last forever and never need to be scrapped. the conroe chips
> are surprisingly cheap for the mid-range ones...i thought they'd be
> more expensive, but i'd hold out for woodcrest if i went that way,
> anyway.

Lasting as opposed working efficiently and productively are two entirely
different issues. How much is your time worth?

> i'm shooting for an upgraded machine and vista in 2008. i've read so
> much info on the beta and alpha builds that i'm pretty sure how i feel
> about the os itself. i don't think i need it and i'm perfectly happy
> with xp. xp does everything i need it to do. the main thing i was
> interested in was winfs which appears on the surface to have been a
> project that was completely scrapped, but lives on in its component
> pieces. i'm curious as to where those little chunks of code will show
> up. i'm sitting next to a xeon server with sql server on it, and i
> just don't think that the home user ever really needed a relational
> database structure perched on top of ntfs. maybe in the future people
> will search through their data this way, but not when their hard drive
> is only stuffed with music stolen through limewire and movies they've
> "shared" to themselves with bittorrent clients.
>
>>
>> And what are you talking about regarding multi-threaded? A TON of
>> current
>> apps are multi-threaded. Not only that, the benefit of a multi-cpu
>> system
>> is multi-tasking. You can burn a DVD, play a game, check email or
>> continue
>> working at the same time. I'll run defrag or back up to my DAT, and
>> continue working without a slowdown.
>>
>> -Larry
>
> i dunno. maybe i'm just a bit confused about the whole multi-threaded
> code situation as it stands. i mean, yeah, a good os can split all
> kinds of things up into multiple threads and take advantage of extra
> cores in there, but it's my understanding that specific code that's
> specifically written to take advantage of multi-core architecture just
> hasn't blossomed into its own yet...no one's perfected it, or the best
> way to implement it. but, maybe i'm misunderstanding the current state
> of the art...

You are. Multi-threaded is one aspect. Multi-tasking is the other.

-Larry

Lucas Buck
September 5th 06, 06:28 AM
On 21 Aug 2006 23:10:31 -0700, "Curt James" > wrote:

>Cohen wrote:
>[...]
>
>> It's not like you're risking your retirement account
>> or a house repossession.
>
>How do you know? Maybe she contributes just five cents each year to her
>IRA account!

Her accountant is Dippy, then?

Curt James
September 5th 06, 11:21 PM
Lucas Buck wrote:
> "Curt James" wrote:
> >Cohen wrote:
> >[...]
> >
> >> It's not like you're risking your retirement account
> >> or a house repossession.
> >
> >How do you know? Maybe she contributes just five
> >cents each year to her IRA account!
>
> Her accountant is Dippy, then?

heh

You mean Dally? D'OH! I suspect Dally would advise more than a 5-cent
contribution.

--
Curt

geek_girl
September 9th 06, 09:38 PM
David Cohen wrote:

>
> I have now done a PSMF a half a dozen times. For me, it is an ideal diet. I
> can maintain a lot of willpower for a short period of time, so I can do an
> extreme diet for a few weeks to a few months, and do it as often as
> necessary. I HATE eating a little under maintenence for a long period of
> time, so, standard dieting sucks!
>
> The first time, I went from the 260s and BF in the 30s, to the 190s and BF
> in the low teens. Took a few months.

Did you ever post JPEGs? If yes, please point me to them. If not, feel
free to email them to me.

David Cohen
September 9th 06, 10:18 PM
"geek_girl" > wrote
> David Cohen wrote:
>> I have now done a PSMF a half a dozen times. For me, it is an ideal diet.
>> I
>> can maintain a lot of willpower for a short period of time, so I can do
>> an
>> extreme diet for a few weeks to a few months, and do it as often as
>> necessary. I HATE eating a little under maintenence for a long period of
>> time, so, standard dieting sucks!
>>
>> The first time, I went from the 260s and BF in the 30s, to the 190s and
>> BF
>> in the low teens. Took a few months.
>
> Did you ever post JPEGs? If yes, please point me to them. If not, feel
> free to email them to me.

You're a bad, bad, girl.

Which is, of course, a positive attribute :)

David

geek_girl
September 9th 06, 10:58 PM
David Cohen wrote:
> "geek_girl" > wrote
> > David Cohen wrote:
> >> I have now done a PSMF a half a dozen times. For me, it is an ideal diet.
> >> I
> >> can maintain a lot of willpower for a short period of time, so I can do
> >> an
> >> extreme diet for a few weeks to a few months, and do it as often as
> >> necessary. I HATE eating a little under maintenence for a long period of
> >> time, so, standard dieting sucks!
> >>
> >> The first time, I went from the 260s and BF in the 30s, to the 190s and
> >> BF
> >> in the low teens. Took a few months.
> >
> > Did you ever post JPEGs? If yes, please point me to them. If not, feel
> > free to email them to me.
>
> You're a bad, bad, girl.
>
> Which is, of course, a positive attribute :)
>
> David

Answer the question, Jew! Where are the JPEGs?

David Cohen
September 10th 06, 12:52 AM
"geek_girl" > wrote
> David Cohen wrote:
>> "geek_girl" > wrote
>> > David Cohen wrote:
>> >> I have now done a PSMF a half a dozen times. For me, it is an ideal
>> >> diet.
>> >> I
>> >> can maintain a lot of willpower for a short period of time, so I can
>> >> do
>> >> an
>> >> extreme diet for a few weeks to a few months, and do it as often as
>> >> necessary. I HATE eating a little under maintenence for a long period
>> >> of
>> >> time, so, standard dieting sucks!
>> >>
>> >> The first time, I went from the 260s and BF in the 30s, to the 190s
>> >> and
>> >> BF
>> >> in the low teens. Took a few months.
>> >
>> > Did you ever post JPEGs? If yes, please point me to them. If not, feel
>> > free to email them to me.
>>
>> You're a bad, bad, girl.
>>
>> Which is, of course, a positive attribute :)
>
> Answer the question, Jew! Where are the JPEGs?

Tie me down and make me tell you!

David

Larry Hodges
September 10th 06, 09:33 AM
"geek_girl" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> David Cohen wrote:
>> "geek_girl" > wrote
>> > David Cohen wrote:
>> >> I have now done a PSMF a half a dozen times. For me, it is an ideal
>> >> diet.
>> >> I
>> >> can maintain a lot of willpower for a short period of time, so I can
>> >> do
>> >> an
>> >> extreme diet for a few weeks to a few months, and do it as often as
>> >> necessary. I HATE eating a little under maintenence for a long period
>> >> of
>> >> time, so, standard dieting sucks!
>> >>
>> >> The first time, I went from the 260s and BF in the 30s, to the 190s
>> >> and
>> >> BF
>> >> in the low teens. Took a few months.
>> >
>> > Did you ever post JPEGs? If yes, please point me to them. If not, feel
>> > free to email them to me.
>>
>> You're a bad, bad, girl.
>>
>> Which is, of course, a positive attribute :)
>>
>> David
>
> Answer the question, Jew! Where are the JPEGs?

Cohen is a Gentile...don't listen to him. Now me on the other hand, I'll be
a Jew if it works for you. Oh baby oh baby.

David Cohen
September 10th 06, 03:38 PM
"Larry Hodges" > wrote
> "geek_girl" > wrote >>
>> David Cohen wrote:
>>> "geek_girl" > wrote
>>> > David Cohen wrote:
>>> >> I have now done a PSMF a half a dozen times. For me, it is an ideal
>>> >> diet.
>>> >> I
>>> >> can maintain a lot of willpower for a short period of time, so I can
>>> >> do
>>> >> an
>>> >> extreme diet for a few weeks to a few months, and do it as often as
>>> >> necessary. I HATE eating a little under maintenence for a long period
>>> >> of
>>> >> time, so, standard dieting sucks!
>>> >>
>>> >> The first time, I went from the 260s and BF in the 30s, to the 190s
>>> >> and
>>> >> BF
>>> >> in the low teens. Took a few months.
>>> >
>>> > Did you ever post JPEGs? If yes, please point me to them. If not, feel
>>> > free to email them to me.
>>>
>>> You're a bad, bad, girl.
>>>
>>> Which is, of course, a positive attribute :)
>>
>> Answer the question, Jew! Where are the JPEGs?
>
> Cohen is a Gentile...don't listen to him. Now me on the other hand, I'll
> be a Jew if it works for you. Oh baby oh baby.

Oh, that's the final straw! You DON'T get to nuke Iran or North Korea. You
get Somalia and one of the minor Cameljockeystans.

And you're buying the beer!

David

Curt James
September 10th 06, 07:41 PM
Cohen wrote:
[...]

> Oh, that's the final straw! You DON'T get to nuke
> Iran or North Korea. You get Somalia and one of
> the minor Cameljockeystans. <snip>

Do the minor Cameljockeystans have Internet access? Because IF they do
and IF they happen upon your post and IF they can get their hands on
tactical nukes and IF they get your address, well...

Just how far is your neck of the woods from Carlisle, Pennsylvania,
USA? I mean, with your back porch as the epicenter (okay, okay, the
point on the Earth's surface directly *above* your back porch), I'd be
curious to know what distance would be required to avoid any
possible... inconvenience. And, yes, that's today's very special
euphemism.

--
Curt

geek_girl
September 10th 06, 07:54 PM
David Cohen wrote:
> "geek_girl" > wrote
> > David Cohen wrote:
> >> "geek_girl" > wrote
> >> > David Cohen wrote:
> >> >> I have now done a PSMF a half a dozen times. For me, it is an ideal
> >> >> diet.
> >> >> I
> >> >> can maintain a lot of willpower for a short period of time, so I can
> >> >> do
> >> >> an
> >> >> extreme diet for a few weeks to a few months, and do it as often as
> >> >> necessary. I HATE eating a little under maintenence for a long period
> >> >> of
> >> >> time, so, standard dieting sucks!
> >> >>
> >> >> The first time, I went from the 260s and BF in the 30s, to the 190s
> >> >> and
> >> >> BF
> >> >> in the low teens. Took a few months.
> >> >
> >> > Did you ever post JPEGs? If yes, please point me to them. If not, feel
> >> > free to email them to me.
> >>
> >> You're a bad, bad, girl.
> >>
> >> Which is, of course, a positive attribute :)
> >
> > Answer the question, Jew! Where are the JPEGs?
>
> Tie me down and make me tell you!
>
> David

I would, but I can't seem to find my virtual rope. I must've left it...
well, never you mind about that.

geek_girl
September 10th 06, 07:56 PM
Larry Hodges wrote:
> "geek_girl" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> >
> > David Cohen wrote:
> >> "geek_girl" > wrote
> >> > David Cohen wrote:
> >> >> I have now done a PSMF a half a dozen times. For me, it is an ideal
> >> >> diet.
> >> >> I
> >> >> can maintain a lot of willpower for a short period of time, so I can
> >> >> do
> >> >> an
> >> >> extreme diet for a few weeks to a few months, and do it as often as
> >> >> necessary. I HATE eating a little under maintenence for a long period
> >> >> of
> >> >> time, so, standard dieting sucks!
> >> >>
> >> >> The first time, I went from the 260s and BF in the 30s, to the 190s
> >> >> and
> >> >> BF
> >> >> in the low teens. Took a few months.
> >> >
> >> > Did you ever post JPEGs? If yes, please point me to them. If not, feel
> >> > free to email them to me.
> >>
> >> You're a bad, bad, girl.
> >>
> >> Which is, of course, a positive attribute :)
> >>
> >> David
> >
> > Answer the question, Jew! Where are the JPEGs?
>
> Cohen is a Gentile...don't listen to him. Now me on the other hand, I'll be
> a Jew if it works for you. Oh baby oh baby.

But even if you're a Jew, won't you still be you? Thanks, but no thanks.

Larry Hodges
September 10th 06, 08:06 PM
"geek_girl" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Larry Hodges wrote:
>> "geek_girl" > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>> >
>> > David Cohen wrote:
>> >> "geek_girl" > wrote
>> >> > David Cohen wrote:
>> >> >> I have now done a PSMF a half a dozen times. For me, it is an ideal
>> >> >> diet.
>> >> >> I
>> >> >> can maintain a lot of willpower for a short period of time, so I
>> >> >> can
>> >> >> do
>> >> >> an
>> >> >> extreme diet for a few weeks to a few months, and do it as often as
>> >> >> necessary. I HATE eating a little under maintenence for a long
>> >> >> period
>> >> >> of
>> >> >> time, so, standard dieting sucks!
>> >> >>
>> >> >> The first time, I went from the 260s and BF in the 30s, to the 190s
>> >> >> and
>> >> >> BF
>> >> >> in the low teens. Took a few months.
>> >> >
>> >> > Did you ever post JPEGs? If yes, please point me to them. If not,
>> >> > feel
>> >> > free to email them to me.
>> >>
>> >> You're a bad, bad, girl.
>> >>
>> >> Which is, of course, a positive attribute :)
>> >>
>> >> David
>> >
>> > Answer the question, Jew! Where are the JPEGs?
>>
>> Cohen is a Gentile...don't listen to him. Now me on the other hand, I'll
>> be
>> a Jew if it works for you. Oh baby oh baby.
>
> But even if you're a Jew, won't you still be you? Thanks, but no thanks.

Damn. Thought I really had a chance there.

Larry Hodges
September 10th 06, 08:15 PM
"David Cohen" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> "Larry Hodges" > wrote
>> "geek_girl" > wrote >>
>>> David Cohen wrote:
>>>> "geek_girl" > wrote
>>>> > David Cohen wrote:
>>>> >> I have now done a PSMF a half a dozen times. For me, it is an ideal
>>>> >> diet.
>>>> >> I
>>>> >> can maintain a lot of willpower for a short period of time, so I can
>>>> >> do
>>>> >> an
>>>> >> extreme diet for a few weeks to a few months, and do it as often as
>>>> >> necessary. I HATE eating a little under maintenence for a long
>>>> >> period of
>>>> >> time, so, standard dieting sucks!
>>>> >>
>>>> >> The first time, I went from the 260s and BF in the 30s, to the 190s
>>>> >> and
>>>> >> BF
>>>> >> in the low teens. Took a few months.
>>>> >
>>>> > Did you ever post JPEGs? If yes, please point me to them. If not,
>>>> > feel
>>>> > free to email them to me.
>>>>
>>>> You're a bad, bad, girl.
>>>>
>>>> Which is, of course, a positive attribute :)
>>>
>>> Answer the question, Jew! Where are the JPEGs?
>>
>> Cohen is a Gentile...don't listen to him. Now me on the other hand, I'll
>> be a Jew if it works for you. Oh baby oh baby.
>
> Oh, that's the final straw! You DON'T get to nuke Iran or North Korea. You
> get Somalia and one of the minor Cameljockeystans.
>
> And you're buying the beer!
>
> David

Somalia? Ahh come on. Ok, I admit it, I'm a closet Gentile. And you can
have geek girl. But let's not drag Shania into this one...it could get
ugly.

So...can I still have Iran and N Korea please?

-Larry

Seth Breidbart
September 21st 06, 08:25 AM
In article >,
JMW > wrote:

>No. Avi first used it in an accusation leveled against Bill Roberts,
>seven years and five days ago.

And I'm going to respond to that post real soon now.

Seth
--
Note to self: a powerlifting meet is not a recommended taper
for a track event. --Ted K.

Seth Breidbart
September 21st 06, 04:24 PM
In article >,
Jason Earl > wrote:

>Either way, if you work in technology it's probably best to have some
>Linux knowledge. Linux on the desktop is not a particularly great
>short term threat (at least in the U.S.), but even Dell will admit
>that over 25% of its servers come pre-installed with Linux, and Dell's
>on the trailing edge of Linux adoption.

And some (I speak from experience) come with no OS installed because
Dell only wants to pre-install versions it can get paid for.

Linux on the desktop isn't going to be a major threat for quite some
time. But linux on the servers will continue driving the Internet
until something similar (e.g. BSD) displaces it.

Seth
--
Unix is user-friendly. It's just very particular about which users it
chooses to be friendly to.

Seth Breidbart
September 21st 06, 04:26 PM
In article >,
DZ > wrote:

>Compared to Linux, I find it many times harder to do my stuff under
>Microsoft.

Linux does what you tell it to do. Windoze does what it thinks you
really should have meant.

Seth
--
Can I suggest that you just declare yourself the winner and shut up
and squat? -- Wendy Marsden

Seth Breidbart
September 21st 06, 04:29 PM
In article >,
Neil Gendzwill > wrote:

>I was similarily skeptical. We used to be an HP house and all the stuff
>that we do now was done under HPUX.

About the best that can be said of HockeyPux is that it's closer to
Unix than AIX.

Seth
--
AIX looks like one space alien discovered Unix, and described it to
another different space alien who then implemented AIX. But their
universal translators were broken and they'd had to gesture a lot. --
Paul Tomblin

Bill
September 21st 06, 07:06 PM
"Seth Breidbart" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> Jason Earl > wrote:
>
>>Either way, if you work in technology it's probably best to have some
>>Linux knowledge. Linux on the desktop is not a particularly great
>>short term threat (at least in the U.S.), but even Dell will admit
>>that over 25% of its servers come pre-installed with Linux, and Dell's
>>on the trailing edge of Linux adoption.
>
> And some (I speak from experience) come with no OS installed because
> Dell only wants to pre-install versions it can get paid for.
>
> Linux on the desktop isn't going to be a major threat for quite some
> time. But linux on the servers will continue driving the Internet
> until something similar (e.g. BSD) displaces it.

Have you seen some of the new desktops?

Have a look at this demo..

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-199899523054020719&q=linux+ui+demo

Bill

Bully
September 21st 06, 07:35 PM
Bill wrote:
> "Seth Breidbart" > wrote in message
> ...
>> In article >,
>> Jason Earl > wrote:
>>
>>> Either way, if you work in technology it's probably best to have
>>> some Linux knowledge. Linux on the desktop is not a particularly
>>> great short term threat (at least in the U.S.), but even Dell will
>>> admit that over 25% of its servers come pre-installed with Linux,
>>> and Dell's on the trailing edge of Linux adoption.
>>
>> And some (I speak from experience) come with no OS installed because
>> Dell only wants to pre-install versions it can get paid for.
>>
>> Linux on the desktop isn't going to be a major threat for quite some
>> time. But linux on the servers will continue driving the Internet
>> until something similar (e.g. BSD) displaces it.
>
> Have you seen some of the new desktops?
>
> Have a look at this demo..
>
> http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-199899523054020719&q=linux+ui+demo
>
> Bill

I was prepared to be underwhelmed, but I was quite impressed. 3D desktop
handy for hiding that porn :)!

--
Bully
Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Jason Earl
September 21st 06, 07:59 PM
"Bully" > writes:

> Bill wrote:
>> "Seth Breidbart" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> In article >,
>>> Jason Earl > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Either way, if you work in technology it's probably best to have
>>>> some Linux knowledge. Linux on the desktop is not a particularly
>>>> great short term threat (at least in the U.S.), but even Dell will
>>>> admit that over 25% of its servers come pre-installed with Linux,
>>>> and Dell's on the trailing edge of Linux adoption.
>>>
>>> And some (I speak from experience) come with no OS installed because
>>> Dell only wants to pre-install versions it can get paid for.
>>>
>>> Linux on the desktop isn't going to be a major threat for quite some
>>> time. But linux on the servers will continue driving the Internet
>>> until something similar (e.g. BSD) displaces it.
>>
>> Have you seen some of the new desktops?
>>
>> Have a look at this demo..
>>
>> http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-199899523054020719&q=linux+ui+demo
>>
>> Bill
>
> I was prepared to be underwhelmed, but I was quite impressed. 3D
> desktop handy for hiding that porn :)!

Linux window managers have been able to do everything but the wobbly
windows and other accelerated card effects for years. Virtual
desktops, snapping to edges, transparency and translucency have been
available since FVWM was popular. In fact, the lack of virtual
desktops is my second biggest problem with Windows (cmd is a horrible
command line shell, that's my biggest problem). Switching between
programs in Windows is unwieldy. Once you get used to having
different desktops for separate tasks and switching between the
desktops Alt-tabbing through twenty open programs seems ridiculous.

I will admit that Xgl allows the process to be more visually
stimulating, but it's hardly something new.

The really scary thing, for Microsoft anyway, is that Linux isn't
going away. Even if Linux makes only moderate gains with the
transition to Vista it will still be around (and free) next time
Microsoft wants to force everyone to jump to a new OS. The whole Free
Software desktop ecosystem really is making incredible gains in
usability, and it isn't going anywhere any time soon.

Jason

Curt James
September 21st 06, 11:02 PM
Seth Breidbart wrote:
> DZ wrote:
>
> >Compared to Linux, I find it many times harder to
> >do my stuff under Microsoft.
>
> Linux does what you tell it to do. Windoze does what
> it thinks you really should have meant.

Well, if the following cartoon is any indication...

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a36/imnoone/ng/wantittodo.gif

Some might actually prefer the latter.

> Seth

--
Curt

Seth Breidbart
September 30th 06, 07:32 AM
In article . com>,
Curt James > wrote:
>Seth Breidbart wrote:
>> DZ wrote:
>>
>> >Compared to Linux, I find it many times harder to
>> >do my stuff under Microsoft.
>>
>> Linux does what you tell it to do. Windoze does what
>> it thinks you really should have meant.
>
>Well, if the following cartoon is any indication...
>
>http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a36/imnoone/ng/wantittodo.gif
>
>Some might actually prefer the latter.

Any resemblance between what Windoze think you really should have
meant and what you actually want is purely coincidental.

Seth
--
Note to self: a powerlifting meet is not a recommended taper
for a track event. --Ted K.