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Curt James
September 8th 06, 04:25 AM
After reading Schuh's mention of Bass elsewhere in MFW, I Googled his
site URL to include in my reply in that thread. While peeking around
Bass' website I noticed the following article by Bass:

If someone's career is hanging in the balance, you don't want to
say, "There's 85% chance the test is right."
~Richard Hellman, president-elect of the American Association of
Clinical Endocrinologists (The Numbers Guy, WSJ.com, August 2, 2006)

This world is separated between doers and watchers, what Teddy
Roosevelt famously called the "man in the arena" and "those cold
and timid souls" who watch-and criticize-the man in the arena.
~ Steve Rushin, Sweat Inequity, Sports
Illustrated (August 14, 2006)


Floyd Landis - Doping Controversy

For those that missed it - I've talked to several - Floyd Landis won
the 2006 Tour de France, the world's most prestigious cycling event,
overcoming a seemingly insurmountable 8-minute deficit in the final
days of the 3-week-long stage race. "He just proved he has incredible
character," Tour Director Christian Prudhomme gushed, according to
Sports Illustrated. "The performance he had today is something I
haven't seen in 20 years."

Shortly thereafter, however, Floyd's magnificent ride was severely
jeopardized when a urine sample taken shortly after the comeback-stage
17 tested positive for testosterone; the ratio of testosterone to
epitestosterone was found to be 11 to 1, well over the 4:1 limit
allowed by anti-doping authorities. "Scandal Overshadows Landis'
Rousing Victory," the Associated Press headlined. A few days later,
The New York Times reported, based on a leak from an "unnamed
person" at the International Cycling Union (UCI) "with knowledge of
the result," that some of the testosterone in his urine sample was
synthetic, indicating that it was from an outside source. That
apparently sealed the deal in the eyes of many doping experts.

Nevertheless, Floyd insists that he did nothing wrong. "I have never
taken any banned substance, including testosterone," he said in a
written statement. "I was the strongest man at the Tour de France,
and that is why I am champion." It is probably not a good bet that
the test results will be overturned, but I do believe that Floyd was
the best and strongest rider at the Tour.

If he took testosterone, of course, he made a bad mistake. He was
wrong.

Each person will have to make up their own mind about Floyd's guilt
or innocence. I'm inclined to believe Floyd, but I have no way to
know for sure.

Here are some things to take into consideration, which aren't getting
much play in the mainstream press.

About Testosterone

First, testosterone has a two-pronged effect: it speeds recovery and
helps build muscle mass. For a cyclist one tends to cancel out the
other. The last thing a bike racer needs is extra body weight,
especially in the upper body, that doesn't make him go faster or
climb better. If you'll recall, Lance Armstrong was a better rider
after he lost weight.

Floyd's longtime physician Brent Kay, MD, was asked about the
benefits of testosterone for a cyclist on CNN's Larry King Live.

"It would be my opinion that it would make it worse," he replied.
"I think that's the crazy thing here. I think everybody really
needs to take a step back and look at what we're talking about.
Because testosterone is a bodybuilding steroid that builds mass. It
builds mass over long term use of weeks, months and even years and
it's crazy to think a Tour de France professional cyclist would be
using testosterone, particularly in the middle of a race."

That's another puzzling aspect of the case. Floyd was tested eight
times during the Tour, four times before the stage in question, and
three times after, including three blood tests. Seven were negative.
Only one came back positive, the one on the day of the big comeback.

"Nobody in their right mind would take testosterone only once,"
Floyd told reporters; "it just doesn't work that way."

Steven Ungerleider, antidoping expert and author of Faust's Gold:
Inside the East German Doping Machine, agrees: "It would be totally
inappropriate or completely ridiculous for anybody to use
[testosterone] at his stage of the game...It would have no benefit
whatsoever in a competition like this. It's the wrong drug of
choice." (The Wall Street Journal, August 12-13, 2006)

Charles Yesalis, professor emeritus at Penn State and a well-know
antidoping expert, says: "It would be like taking a
cholesterol-lowering drug while having a heart attack." (WSJ, August
12-13, 2006)

An Agenda?

The leak is another problem. Someone at the Cycling Union (UCI) leaked
the news about exogenous testosterone being found in the test sample to
The New York Times--before the result was made available to Landis or
his representatives. Floyd had to read it in the press, and react
without benefit of all the facts. It made it appear that he was
changing his story with each new development. According to an AP
report, the drug cops at the U.S. Anti-doping Agency in Colorado
Springs "absolutely won't talk to the media about any case that is
pending." I guess they play by different rules in France.

We now know that, UCI head Pat McQuaid was the leaker. "[He] said he
had to release mine before the [French anti-doping] lab leaked it,"
Landis told reporters.

"This is a situation where I'm forced to defend myself in the
media. It would never have happened if UCI and WADA [World Anti-Doping
Agency] had followed their own rules," Landis told reporters.
"There's some kind of agenda there," he added. "I just doing
know what it is."

Asked whether anyone had manipulated the test results, Landis replied,
"I don't have a theory on that. All I'm saying is that
circumstantial evidence points to something other than just clearly
enforcing the rules."

It's no way to run a railroad, that's for sure. It does make you
wonder what's going on. Is it possible, as some have suggested, that
someone in the evidence chain was tired of Americans winning every
year?

Phil Liggett, the distinguished cycling commentator we see every year
on OLN's coverage of the Tour, is skeptical about the tests done on
the American, according to South African sports writer Wilhelm de
Swardt (Beeld, August 8, 2006). "The way the tests were handled and
the information that was leaked to The New York Times makes me wonder
whether everything was done according to the rules," said Liggett.

The same French lab hounded Lance Armstrong for years. In May of this
year, tests done on a sample of Armstrong's urine in 1999 by that lab
were thrown out after an independent investigation found that the lab
"did not follow a single one" of the required handling techniques.
(WSJ, August 12-13, 2006)

The more I learn about testing for synthetic testosterone in the body,
the more I wonder.

Synthetic Testosterone

As noted earlier, only one of eight samples tested by the French lab
was found positive; the samples taken before and after Stage 17 were
all negative. The logical question is how long does synthetic
testosterone stay in the body? Carl Bialik, The Numbers Guy, explored
this question quite extensively in his column on WSJ.com (August 11,
2006).

First, Bialik confirmed through Landis spokesman Michael Henson and
cycling union doctor Mario Zorzoli that only the test on July 20 was
positive. Tests two days before and two days after were negative.

How long it takes for synthetic testosterone to clear out of the body
depends primarily on how it was administered. "Testosterone typically
is injected directly into the muscle, and, depending on the dosage, it
generally creates an elevated T/E [testosterone to epitestosterone]
ratio for a week to 10 days, according to researchers I spoke with,"
the Numbers Guy wrote. "That makes this form of testosterone usage an
unlikely candidate to explain Mr. Landis's positive test - assuming
the tests were conducted properly - his elevated ratio would have shown
up in one of his other tests."

Plus, as we pointed out above, testosterone doesn't work that fast.
"It takes at least a week to have a physiological effect," Dr.
Simon Davis, technical director for Mass Spec Solutions Ltd, maker of
the testing devices, told The Numbers Guy.

The other ways to take testosterone are by mouth or apply it to the
skin with a gel, cream or patch. Unless we assume that Floyd and his
handlers were stupid or uninformed, those methods also seem
inconsistent with the test result that threatens his career.

These forms of administration do work faster and clear out of the
system sooner. Dr. Mario Thevis, professor for preventive doping
research at German Sport University, told Bialik in an email,
"Depending on the dosage, T/E ratios could return to normal after
several hours."

The problem is that they provide little, if any, benefit. "These
provide a very small amount of testosterone, and certainly would not
improve performance at any significant level," Simon Davis, who
you'll remember works for the company that makes the testing devices,
told Bialik.

That brings us back to the credibility of the French lab and the
accuracy of the tests.

Carl Bialik found that the French lab has a generally good reputation.
German Professor Thevis told him the lab "has fulfilled the
accreditation requirement for sport drug testing for more than 15
years."

There have been some stumbles over the years, however. We already
mentioned the overturning of Lance Armstrong's urine test because of
defects in the lab's handling procedures. Other problems have been
reported as well. "In 1998, cyclist Paola Pezzo was cleared of a
positive test by [the French lab], in part because of flaws in the
lab's testing procedures," Bialik wrote.

The test used to detect synthetic testosterone, isotope ratio mass
spectrometry, is considered reliable. "There have been a lot of
studies showing that differentiation [between natural and synthetic
testosterone based on carbon type] is absolutely reliable and
reproducible," UCI Dr. Zorzoli told Bialik. (8-2-06)

The test is not foolproof, however. "It's a very complex test that
requires very skilled people and is easy to mess up," Dr. Richard
Hellman, president-elect of the American Association of Clinical
Endocrinologists, told The Numbers Guy. Dr. Davis, technical director
for the company that makes the machines that do the testing, agrees:
"Quite regularly there are errors in the isotope tests," Davis told
Bialik. "It's a very difficult analytical technique."

No evidence of tampering with the test sample has been uncovered. But
it would certainly be possible to spike the sample, says Dr. Davis:
"If you did an analysis on testosterone, you wouldn't be able to
distinguish between testosterone injected straight into the sample, or
coming out through urine."

So, where does that leave us? I would say, in doubt. It's certainly
not time to declare Floyd Landis guilty without a hearing. Yet, a
substantial portion of the media seems inclined to rush to judgment,
especially sports commentators.

Phil Liggett, arguably the most widely recognized cycling commentator
in the world, has not joined the media horde. According to the article
in the South African online 24-hour news service Beeld referred to
earlier, Liggett has pointed out that the legal team representing
Landis has never lost a case in which an athlete was accused of having
testosterone levels that were too high.

You'd never know it from reading your daily newspaper or watching the
nightly news.

Rush to Judgment

A local sports reporter/commentator I generally respect wrote, "Maybe
it's a frame-up perpetuated by the same folks who tried for so long
to discredit Lance Armstrong." After barely pausing for breath, he
wrote in the next paragraph. "But, no I don't think so. Do you?"
And that was when the ink was barely dry on the first reports of a
positive test result, before the "B" sample results or the
information on synthetic testosterone were known.

About the same time, while the story was still unfolding, AP writer Jim
Litke was out with a very negative report, the worst I've seen. Among
other things, he wrote, "The evidence so far says he'd better have
a good lawyer. ...Make that a Great one." Referring to Floyd's
explanations at that point, he wrote mockingly: "At least he didn't
say the dog ate his homework." (July 28, 2006) (See below about the
alcohol defense.)

I don't like the tone of that; sounds like the case is essentially
closed, at least in his mind. I know that lots of sports writers make
their bones by being opinionated and having a big mouth, but I think
some restraint is called for when an athlete's life and career are on
the line.

"I don't think he has much chance at all to try to prove his
innocence," three-time Tour winner Greg LeMond told a reporter by
phone. That may be true, but it's hardly constructive, especially
when the appeal process hasn't even begun. In fact, as of this
writing, Floyd has yet to be charged by the U.S. Anti-doping Agency.
Until then he is still the official winner of the Tour de France.

Even though these comments may turn out to be correct, I find them
disturbing. Beyond the presumption of guilt, they feed into the
pessimistic view that most successful people got where they are by
cheating. Jim Litke, in the same column quoted above, referring to
Floyd's thrilling comeback, added this gloomy commentary: "For
almost a week, that ride...made people believe there was no limit on
how far hard work, toughness and willingness to sacrifice could carry a
champion. Now it's just one more reason to be skeptical about the
next great performance."

I believe that was overly negative, at least early in the news cycle
when it was written-and generally misguided. People who work hard and
follow the rules almost always come out ahead in the long run.
Optimistic people who help themselves do better in just about
everything. (See "The New Positive Psychology" and "Owners and
Victims" in our Psychology and Motivation category.)

One thing is clear. No one should question Landis' work ethic. Listen
to his friend and doctor Brent Kay again: "Floyd is about as tough as
they come. Having ridden a bike with him on a fairly regular basis in
the last four years, I've seen that first hand. I've seen his
training data. I've seen how hard he trains. His training is
legendary in the cycling area. This performance he had [on] this big
stage...was not unexpected. He has training data that compares to what
he did that day and the big thing with that performance is that he is
the only one that would do that on the first hill, the first of five
hills. You watched the other leaders there with him, they had the
opportunity [to do the same thing], and said no."

Floyd's Alcohol Defense

We can't close without a few words about the alcohol defense which
the press has had so much fun denigrating. The Numbers Guy covered that
too, in his August 2 column. It's not a joke.

Depressed about bonking on Stage 16, Floyd Landis downed two beers and
"at least" four shots of Jack Daniels. Probably not the best idea
ever, but everyone would most likely agree that it's understandable.
Guess what? Several studies (five, according to Dr. Kay) have shown
that alcohol can substantially raise the level of testosterone in the
body. Here are the details, as uncovered by Carl Bialik's excellent
reporting.

The first study was done two decades ago by researchers in the
department of clinical chemistry at Huddinge Hospital in Sweden. It was
a small study involving four subjects. They had about 10 alcoholic
drinks over six hours, which was found to elevate their T/E ratio "by
a factor of 10% to 50%." The study was published in the journal
Clinical Chemistry. "Our interest here was just to demonstrate that
we would see an effect," co-author and now a professor of clinical
chemistry at Karolinska University Hospital in Stockholm Ingemar
Bjorkhem, told Bialik. " We expected to see an effect."

Bialik found that a handful of other studies have confirmed the effect.
The studies, however, are small and the size of the rise in T/E ratio
varies widely. A 1996 study by researchers at the German Sports
University found an average increase in T/E ratio of "300% to 400%
among six female volunteers and an average of 50% to 100% among five
males." The men's results ranged from a decrease of 40% to an
increase of 300%.

A 2001 review of literature by Simon Davis of Mass Spec Solutions, who
was then doing his doctoral work at Lawrence Berkeley National
Laboratory in Berkeley, California, "found alcohol-induced increases
in the T/E ratio ranging from 30% to 277%." The review was done in
connection with a pending doping case and was not peer-reviewed. It was
recently published online (without permission from Dr. Davis) and was
cited by Bloomberg.

"The information is suggestive, but it's not certain," Richard
Hellman, president-elect of the American Association of Clinical
Endocrinologists, told Bialik.

"Doctors and drug-testing specialists say the possibility that
alcohol may profoundly affect the T/E ratio is one of several drawbacks
with the test that's caused Mr. Landis so much trouble," Carl
Bialik wrote.

The cyclist union's Dr Zorzoli counters: "If the case is on the
evidence of exogenous testosterone, alcohol intake doesn't create
exogenous testosterone in the body." Maybe not, but it could explain
the elevated T/E level. We've already discussed the problems with the
finding of synthetic testosterone.

I don't know the standard of proof required in doping cases, but surely
the burden is on the charging authority. it's not up to Landis to prove
his innocence beyond a reasonable doubt.

Referring to the alcohol effect and other problems with the testing,
Endocrinologist Richard Hellman, told Bialik, "If someone's career
is hanging in the balance, you don't want to say, 'There's 85%
chance the test is right.' "

Biggest Story Still to Come

I feel bad for Floyd. No matter what happens, I hope he can get his
mind right and focus on rehabbing his hip without pressure. As most
readers know by now, he's been riding on a damaged hip for several
years and needs a replacement. If news reports are correct, the surgery
may have been done by the time this article is posted.

It would be an even bigger story for Landis to come back and win
again--on a new hip. I'd love that.

Go Floyd!
/article from http://www.cbass.com/FloydLandis.htm

--
Curt

Pete
September 8th 06, 10:11 AM
"Curt James" > schreef:

> For those that missed it - I've talked to several - Floyd Landis won
> the 2006 Tour de France, the world's most prestigious cycling event,
> overcoming a seemingly insurmountable 8-minute deficit in the final
> days of the 3-week-long stage race. "He just proved he has incredible
> character," Tour Director Christian Prudhomme gushed, according to
> Sports Illustrated. "The performance he had today is something I
> haven't seen in 20 years."

You CANNOT make that difference by taking testosterone!

If you have a bad day at the Tour, even a gram of fast, short acting esters
CANNOT make you perform like Superman the next day day! It doesnt work that
way...

BTW, we allready had several insiders discussing the whole doping issue
here.

Mart Smeets, an interviewwer/commentator/insider for many decades, mapped it
out for those who didnt understand "doping"and its relation to the Tour The
France.

Its *common* practice that in the pre-season cyclists withdraw several
liters of blood. And store it. Then, they use EPO for several months. And
probably train high altitude. Then they add either nandrolone or
testosterone. Despite the fact that both increase the synthesis of
erytropoeitine, taking AS *with* the EPO still helps performnce.

Many, MANY retired Dutch cyclists admitted that EPO/test, was no big deal...
Some teams even had their runners on IV after the "etappe." A certain fatty
acid was pumped directly into the bloodstream. Several years ago, it went
wrong, and several Dutch ruinners became ill...

Like i said, many insiders here have discussed this for many years. They
conclude you either do 2 things;

1) Leave the runners the **** alone, let them prepare any way they wish;
talking EPO/test doesnt turn you into a Lance Armstrong.

2) Make the sport "clean", but then accept that the "etappes" should be
shorter, the runners need more rest intervals, and performance will still go
down.

Most people over here agree with 1.

> If he took testosterone, of course, he made a bad mistake. He was
> wrong.

No he didnt.
He just should have taken care that his ratio was 1:1. In the past, they
used HCG to do that...

> Each person will have to make up their own mind about Floyd's guilt
> or innocence. I'm inclined to believe Floyd, but I have no way to
> know for sure.

Well, he took test. So did the others.

Remember, a LOT of French people do NOT like to see an American on that
stage!

----
Pete

Henry
September 9th 06, 02:19 AM
The 9-11 truth movement continues to grow.
Skeptics with the abilty to think clearly and
logically are seeing the truth in greater
numbers by the day...

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/september2006/070906insidejob.htm


28-Year Career CIA Official Says 9/11 An Inside Job
Highlights missing Pentagon trillions as potential motive

Paul Joseph Watson/Prison Planet.com | September 7 2006

A 28-year CIA career man and a former skeptic of alternative 9/11
explanations has gone further than ever before in voicing his
convictions that the attacks bore the hallmarks of an inside job and
the three buildings in the WTC complex were brought down by controlled
demolition.

Bill Christison is a former senior official of the CIA. He was a
National Intelligence Officer and the Director of the CIA's Office of
Regional and Political Analysis before his retirement in 1979. Since
then he has written numerous articles on U.S. foreign policies.

In Christison's recent article, Stop Belittling the Theories About
September 11, he afforded credibility to the notion that "significant
parts" of the official 9/11 story were false and after careful
research he concluded that the twin towers and building 7, "were most
probably destroyed by controlled demolition charges placed in the
buildings."







--

http://911research.wtc7.net
http://www.st911.org



Here's what happens to steel framed buildings exposed
to raging infernos for hours on end.

http://davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr69c.html

On 9-11-01, WTC7, a 47 story steel framed building, which
had only small, random fires, dropped in perfect symmetry
at near free fall speed as in a perfectly executed controlled
demolition.

http://911research.wtc7.net/talks/wtc/videos.html
http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html
http://wtc7.net/articles/FEMA/WTC_ch5.htm


"You're doin' a heckuva job, Brownie!" - bu$h, a few days
before his FEMA chief, Micheal Brown was forced to resign
because of his gross incompetence.

"The tools that enable Cuba to save lives and preserve
human dignity during hurricanes are socialist values
and organization." - Dr. W.T. Whitney Jr

Ever wonder who benefits from the 300 MILLION
U.S. taxpayer dollars spent each DAY in Iraq?
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0223-08.htm
http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?list=type&type=21

"They are waging a campaign of murder and destruction. And
there is no limit to the innocent lives they are willing to
take... men with blind hatred and armed with lethal weapons
who are capable of any atrocity... they respect no laws of
warfare or morality."
-bu$h describing his own illegal invasion of Iraq.
http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_mar2003.htm

http://www.commondreams.org/
http://www.truthout.org/
http://www.prohibitioncosts.org/
http://thirdworldtraveler.com/
http://counterpunch.org/
http://responsiblewealth.org/

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things
that matter." -- Martin Luther King Jr.

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is
not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."
-- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

Don't let bu$h do to the United States what his very close
friend and top campaign contributor, Ken Lay, did to Enron...

Robert Schuh
September 10th 06, 11:04 PM
Pete wrote:

> "Curt James" > schreef:
>
> > For those that missed it - I've talked to several - Floyd Landis won
> > the 2006 Tour de France, the world's most prestigious cycling event,
> > overcoming a seemingly insurmountable 8-minute deficit in the final
> > days of the 3-week-long stage race. "He just proved he has incredible
> > character," Tour Director Christian Prudhomme gushed, according to
> > Sports Illustrated. "The performance he had today is something I
> > haven't seen in 20 years."
>
> You CANNOT make that difference by taking testosterone!
>
> If you have a bad day at the Tour, even a gram of fast, short acting esters
> CANNOT make you perform like Superman the next day day! It doesnt work that
> way...
>
> BTW, we allready had several insiders discussing the whole doping issue
> here.
>
> Mart Smeets, an interviewwer/commentator/insider for many decades, mapped it
> out for those who didnt understand "doping"and its relation to the Tour The
> France.
>
> Its *common* practice that in the pre-season cyclists withdraw several
> liters of blood. And store it. Then, they use EPO for several months. And
> probably train high altitude. Then they add either nandrolone or
> testosterone. Despite the fact that both increase the synthesis of
> erytropoeitine, taking AS *with* the EPO still helps performnce.
>
> Many, MANY retired Dutch cyclists admitted that EPO/test, was no big deal...
> Some teams even had their runners on IV after the "etappe." A certain fatty
> acid was pumped directly into the bloodstream. Several years ago, it went
> wrong, and several Dutch ruinners became ill...
>
> Like i said, many insiders here have discussed this for many years. They
> conclude you either do 2 things;
>
> 1) Leave the runners the **** alone, let them prepare any way they wish;
> talking EPO/test doesnt turn you into a Lance Armstrong.
>
> 2) Make the sport "clean", but then accept that the "etappes" should be
> shorter, the runners need more rest intervals, and performance will still go
> down.
>
> Most people over here agree with 1.
>
> > If he took testosterone, of course, he made a bad mistake. He was
> > wrong.
>
> No he didnt.
> He just should have taken care that his ratio was 1:1. In the past, they
> used HCG to do that...
>
> > Each person will have to make up their own mind about Floyd's guilt
> > or innocence. I'm inclined to believe Floyd, but I have no way to
> > know for sure.
>
> Well, he took test. So did the others.
>
> Remember, a LOT of French people do NOT like to see an American on that
> stage!
>
> ----
> Pete

Pete,
HCG is the LAST thing you want to take to keep your test:epi ratios in line.
Vinnie Commerford took it before the 1990 Olympia and his ratio was some insane
thing like 20:1. BTW, I had worked with him before he won the Nationals but he
decided to go with someone other than Dan and myself for the Olympia. He also
tested Positive for Winstrol as many guys back then thought that Winstrol V was
fast acting because it was water based. It actually is one of THE worst things
you can take before a test as the crystals get stuck in the fat and can get
kicked into the blood stream at the most unfortunate times. Oral Winstrol is out
of the system in a matter of days. The only 2 injectables that I allowed near a
show were Primabolan Acetate and Test Suspension. For some reason, the way Test
Suspension is made, it does not have the same problems that Winny V has. I had
one person take Acetate up until 3 days before the show and still test negative.
That was close to 20 years ago, so it may no longer hold water.


--
Robert Schuh
"Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche

http://www.hardbopdrums.com/