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John
September 10th 06, 10:33 AM
I'd like to let everybody know about an accidental discovery made by
the Cancer Research Organization, ProGenics Research.
Originally developed to assist the terminally ill to retain mass and
strength, ProBol was quickly discovered to do even more for healthy
individuals.
We are now populating a Stage III Investigational Trial to further
document ProBol's efficacy. Since cutting-edge information filters down
from dedicated enthusiasts to the general public, I decided to make
this available here first.
There is far too much info to put here, but there is a website where a
better idea can be had.
Also, we are paying $250 for each person who is referred to us for the
trial. And there are some advantages to be gained from participation,
including continued access to performance enhancing formulas. We want a
relatively random sample and a large group and so, anyone over 18 years
of age may participate. Participants need not be involved in exercise
in any way.
Those who decide to actively recruit for this study will definitely
profit. You can start by referring your family, friends, gym contacts,
even yourself and be paid $250 for each one. We are interested to know
just how well ProBol performs for anyone.
This recruitment will continue for appx. 30 days. The website address
is: http://www.ProBod.info/

Pez D Spencer
September 10th 06, 10:56 AM
what a load of ****. take your spam and lies somewhere else.

Lee Michaels
September 10th 06, 11:42 AM
"John" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> I'd like to let everybody know about an accidental discovery made by
> the Cancer Research Organization, ProGenics Research.
> Originally developed to assist the terminally ill to retain mass and
> strength, ProBol was quickly discovered to do even more for healthy
> individuals.
> We are now populating a Stage III Investigational Trial to further
> document ProBol's efficacy. Since cutting-edge information filters down
> from dedicated enthusiasts to the general public, I decided to make
> this available here first.
> There is far too much info to put here, but there is a website where a
> better idea can be had.
> Also, we are paying $250 for each person who is referred to us for the
> trial. And there are some advantages to be gained from participation,
> including continued access to performance enhancing formulas. We want a
> relatively random sample and a large group and so, anyone over 18 years
> of age may participate. Participants need not be involved in exercise
> in any way.
> Those who decide to actively recruit for this study will definitely
> profit. You can start by referring your family, friends, gym contacts,
> even yourself and be paid $250 for each one. We are interested to know
> just how well ProBol performs for anyone.
> This recruitment will continue for appx. 30 days. The website address
> is: http://www.ProBod.info/
>

What a con.

Sign up now before it becomes a federally restricted drug. And when it
becomes a drug, you will get a special good guy exemption that means that
you do not have to follow federal law. All for $145 a month.

To hell with the steriod wanna be. (A non-hormonal anabolic cough, cough)
I want one of them get out of jail cards.

Can you get me a good deal on some other types of "federal exemptions??

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

John
September 10th 06, 08:10 PM
Lee,
There is no "good guy exemption" wherein one is given permission to
disregard federal drug law. However, within the law that you apparently
know thoroughly, are exemptions that allow individuals to access
otherwise restricted substances.
I am a Co-Investigator of Clinical Trials, certified by the NIH. That
is, the National Institutes of Health. But of course, in addition to
all else, you know that already. I understand your skepticism, as fraud
is prevalent in the nutrition industry.
As far as wannabe, I hold advanced degrees in both Biochemistry and a
Microbiology and am currently a project manager for a recognized
Research firm. Perhaps you should "google" Progenics and get some new
information.
As far as a non-hormonal anabolics, even you may have heard of
Creatine.
Below is some information for you to reviem that may help you
understand the concept of Investigational exemptions.
Or, you can continue to do it the easy way and merely express ridicule
for the many areas in which you are clueless.

What is an investigational drug?
An investigational drug is one that is under study but does not have
permission from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) to be
marketed and sold in the United States.

FDA approval is the final step in the process of drug development. The
first step is for the new drug to be tested in the laboratory. If the
results are promising, the drug company or sponsor must apply for FDA
approval to test the drug in people. This is called an Investigational
New Drug (IND) Application. Once the IND is approved, clinical trials
can begin. Clinical trials are research studies to determine the safety
and measure the effectiveness of the drug in people. Once clinical
trials are completed, the sponsor submits the study results in a New
Drug Application (NDA) or Biologics License Application (BLA) to the
FDA. This application is carefully reviewed and, if the drug is found
to be reasonably safe and effective, it is approved.

How do patients get investigational drugs?
By far, the most common way that patients get investigational drugs is
by taking part in a clinical trial sponsored under an IND.

Are there other ways to get investigational drugs?
Less common ways that patients can receive investigational drugs
include mechanisms such as an expanded access protocol or as special or
compassionate exception. The sponsor must agree to provide the drug for
this use.

Investigational drugs given under these mechanisms must meet the
following criteria:

There must be substantial clinical evidence that the drug may benefit.
The drug must be able to be given safely outside a clinical trial.
The drug must be in sufficient supply for ongoing and planned clinical
trials.

Expanded Access
The purpose of an expanded access protocol is to make investigational
drugs that have significant activity available to patients before the
FDA approval process has been completed. Expanded access protocols
allow a larger group of people to be treated with the drug.

The sponsor must apply to the FDA to make the drug available through an
expanded access protocol. There must be enough evidence from studies
already completed to show that the drug is likely to be effective
against a specific type of cancer and that it does not have
unreasonable risks.

The NCI's Treatment Referral Center (TRC) protocols are one type of
expanded access protocol. The NCI establishes a TRC protocol when
clinical evidence suggests that an investigational drug should be made
more widely available to patients, even though the FDA approval process
has not been completed. The TRC protocol is made available at
NCI-designated cancer centers and other institutions selected to
provide wide geographic availability of the drug to patients.

Special Exception
Patients who do not meet the eligibility criteria for a clinical trial
of an investigational drug may be eligible to receive the drug under a
mechanism known as a special exception to the policy of administering
investigational drugs only in a clinical trial. The sponsor (the drug
company or NCI) evaluates the requests on a case-by-case basis. There
should be reasonable expectation that the drug will improve quality of
life.

Are all investigational drugs available through an expanded access or
special exception mechanism?
No. The sponsor decides whether to provide an investigational drug
outside a clinical trial. Availability may be limited in part by drug
supply, patient demand, or other factors.

Who can provide access to investigational drugs being developed by
pharmaceutical companies?
In the case of investigational drugs sponsored by a drug company, the
drug company in collaboration with the FDA provides access to the drug.
The process is similar to that described above.

Hope this information explains expanded access in terms which you can
process.

> What a con.
>
> Sign up now before it becomes a federally restricted drug. And when it
> becomes a drug, you will get a special good guy exemption that means that
> you do not have to follow federal law. All for $145 a month.
>
> To hell with the steriod wanna be. (A non-hormonal anabolic cough, cough)
> I want one of them get out of jail cards.
>
> Can you get me a good deal on some other types of "federal exemptions??
>
> BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

ATP*
September 10th 06, 10:40 PM
"John" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Lee,
> There is no "good guy exemption" wherein one is given permission to
> disregard federal drug law. However, within the law that you apparently
> know thoroughly, are exemptions that allow individuals to access
> otherwise restricted substances.
> I am a Co-Investigator of Clinical Trials, certified by the NIH. That
> is, the National Institutes of Health. But of course, in addition to
> all else, you know that already. I understand your skepticism, as fraud
> is prevalent in the nutrition industry.
> As far as wannabe, I hold advanced degrees in both Biochemistry and a
> Microbiology and am currently a project manager for a recognized
> Research firm. Perhaps you should "google" Progenics and get some new
> information.
> As far as a non-hormonal anabolics, even you may have heard of
> Creatine.
> Below is some information for you to reviem that may help you
> understand the concept of Investigational exemptions.
> Or, you can continue to do it the easy way and merely express ridicule
> for the many areas in which you are clueless.
>
> What is an investigational drug?
> An investigational drug is one that is under study but does not have
> permission from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) to be
> marketed and sold in the United States.
>
> FDA approval is the final step in the process of drug development. The
> first step is for the new drug to be tested in the laboratory. If the
> results are promising, the drug company or sponsor must apply for FDA
> approval to test the drug in people. This is called an Investigational
> New Drug (IND) Application. Once the IND is approved, clinical trials
> can begin. Clinical trials are research studies to determine the safety
> and measure the effectiveness of the drug in people. Once clinical
> trials are completed, the sponsor submits the study results in a New
> Drug Application (NDA) or Biologics License Application (BLA) to the
> FDA. This application is carefully reviewed and, if the drug is found
> to be reasonably safe and effective, it is approved.
>
> How do patients get investigational drugs?
> By far, the most common way that patients get investigational drugs is
> by taking part in a clinical trial sponsored under an IND.
>
> Are there other ways to get investigational drugs?
> Less common ways that patients can receive investigational drugs
> include mechanisms such as an expanded access protocol or as special or
> compassionate exception. The sponsor must agree to provide the drug for
> this use.
>
> Investigational drugs given under these mechanisms must meet the
> following criteria:
>
> There must be substantial clinical evidence that the drug may benefit.
> The drug must be able to be given safely outside a clinical trial.
> The drug must be in sufficient supply for ongoing and planned clinical
> trials.
>
> Expanded Access
> The purpose of an expanded access protocol is to make investigational
> drugs that have significant activity available to patients before the
> FDA approval process has been completed. Expanded access protocols
> allow a larger group of people to be treated with the drug.
>
> The sponsor must apply to the FDA to make the drug available through an
> expanded access protocol. There must be enough evidence from studies
> already completed to show that the drug is likely to be effective
> against a specific type of cancer and that it does not have
> unreasonable risks.
>
> The NCI's Treatment Referral Center (TRC) protocols are one type of
> expanded access protocol. The NCI establishes a TRC protocol when
> clinical evidence suggests that an investigational drug should be made
> more widely available to patients, even though the FDA approval process
> has not been completed. The TRC protocol is made available at
> NCI-designated cancer centers and other institutions selected to
> provide wide geographic availability of the drug to patients.
>
> Special Exception
> Patients who do not meet the eligibility criteria for a clinical trial
> of an investigational drug may be eligible to receive the drug under a
> mechanism known as a special exception to the policy of administering
> investigational drugs only in a clinical trial. The sponsor (the drug
> company or NCI) evaluates the requests on a case-by-case basis. There
> should be reasonable expectation that the drug will improve quality of
> life.
>
> Are all investigational drugs available through an expanded access or
> special exception mechanism?
> No. The sponsor decides whether to provide an investigational drug
> outside a clinical trial. Availability may be limited in part by drug
> supply, patient demand, or other factors.
>
> Who can provide access to investigational drugs being developed by
> pharmaceutical companies?
> In the case of investigational drugs sponsored by a drug company, the
> drug company in collaboration with the FDA provides access to the drug.
> The process is similar to that described above.
>
> Hope this information explains expanded access in terms which you can
> process.

Apparently, the intent of the law is not to allow individuals access to
drugs to git hyuuge, or to create another marketing channel for supplements.





>
>> What a con.
>>
>> Sign up now before it becomes a federally restricted drug. And when it
>> becomes a drug, you will get a special good guy exemption that means that
>> you do not have to follow federal law. All for $145 a month.
>>
>> To hell with the steriod wanna be. (A non-hormonal anabolic cough,
>> cough)
>> I want one of them get out of jail cards.
>>
>> Can you get me a good deal on some other types of "federal exemptions??
>>
>> BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
>

Pez D Spencer
September 10th 06, 11:00 PM
John wrote:
>
> As far as wannabe, I hold advanced degrees in both Biochemistry and a
> Microbiology and am currently a project manager for a recognized
> Research firm. Perhaps you should "google" Progenics and get some new
> information.

what's an "advanced degree?" you mean you have a masters? a phd?
either? both?

the first thing i did was google progenics. there is no valuable
information to be found on that site...really only a highlighted link
to the other site you mentioned.

> As far as a non-hormonal anabolics, even you may have heard of
> Creatine.

i don't think creatine was ever considered an "anabolic." i certainly
don't.

> Below is some information for you to reviem that may help you
> understand the concept of Investigational exemptions.
> Or, you can continue to do it the easy way and merely express ridicule
> for the many areas in which you are clueless.

<snipped the cut and paste from your website>

>
> Hope this information explains expanded access in terms which you can
> process.
>
> > What a con.

yup. and not even an entertaining one.

on top of that, your email originates from gmail. you're telling me
that your company is so important that they don't have email. because
this spam originates from gmail, your posts have been referred to
google for review. spamming on google groups and spamming from a gmail
account is a violation of your gmail contract.

hope this helps clear things up.

Pez D Spencer
September 10th 06, 11:06 PM
John wrote:
> Lee,
>
> As far as wannabe, I hold advanced degrees in both Biochemistry and a
> Microbiology and am currently a project manager for a recognized
> Research firm. Perhaps you should "google" Progenics and get some new
> information.

by the way, here's the link to the "progenics research" site you're
promoting:

http://www.progenics.org/

i see that you're trying to confuse people by telling them to search
for just "progenics." if you just google that, then you'll come up
with progenics pharmaceuticals. obviously you're trying to confuse
people into thinking that this is somehow connected with progenics
pharmaceuticals.

scam artists are not welcome in our group.

Robert Schuh
September 10th 06, 11:10 PM
John wrote:

> I'd like to let everybody know about an accidental discovery made by
> the Cancer Research Organization, ProGenics Research.
> Originally developed to assist the terminally ill to retain mass and
> strength, ProBol was quickly discovered to do even more for healthy
> individuals.
> We are now populating a Stage III Investigational Trial to further
> document ProBol's efficacy. Since cutting-edge information filters down
> from dedicated enthusiasts to the general public, I decided to make
> this available here first.
> There is far too much info to put here, but there is a website where a
> better idea can be had.
> Also, we are paying $250 for each person who is referred to us for the
> trial. And there are some advantages to be gained from participation,
> including continued access to performance enhancing formulas. We want a
> relatively random sample and a large group and so, anyone over 18 years
> of age may participate. Participants need not be involved in exercise
> in any way.
> Those who decide to actively recruit for this study will definitely
> profit. You can start by referring your family, friends, gym contacts,
> even yourself and be paid $250 for each one. We are interested to know
> just how well ProBol performs for anyone.
> This recruitment will continue for appx. 30 days. The website address
> is: http://www.ProBod.info/

**** you and your spam along with your snake oil bull****. Asshole.


--
Robert Schuh
"Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche

http://www.hardbopdrums.com/

Robert Schuh
September 10th 06, 11:11 PM
John wrote:

> Lee,
> There is no "good guy exemption" wherein one is given permission to
> disregard federal drug law. However, within the law that you apparently
> know thoroughly, are exemptions that allow individuals to access
> otherwise restricted substances.
> I am a Co-Investigator of Clinical Trials, certified by the NIH. That
> is, the National Institutes of Health. But of course, in addition to
> all else, you know that already. I understand your skepticism, as fraud
> is prevalent in the nutrition industry.
> As far as wannabe, I hold advanced degrees in both Biochemistry and a
> Microbiology and am currently a project manager for a recognized
> Research firm. Perhaps you should "google" Progenics and get some new
> information.
> As far as a non-hormonal anabolics, even you may have heard of
> Creatine.
> Below is some information for you to reviem that may help you
> understand the concept of Investigational exemptions.
> Or, you can continue to do it the easy way and merely express ridicule
> for the many areas in which you are clueless.
>
> What is an investigational drug?
> An investigational drug is one that is under study but does not have
> permission from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) to be
> marketed and sold in the United States.
>
> FDA approval is the final step in the process of drug development. The
> first step is for the new drug to be tested in the laboratory. If the
> results are promising, the drug company or sponsor must apply for FDA
> approval to test the drug in people. This is called an Investigational
> New Drug (IND) Application. Once the IND is approved, clinical trials
> can begin. Clinical trials are research studies to determine the safety
> and measure the effectiveness of the drug in people. Once clinical
> trials are completed, the sponsor submits the study results in a New
> Drug Application (NDA) or Biologics License Application (BLA) to the
> FDA. This application is carefully reviewed and, if the drug is found
> to be reasonably safe and effective, it is approved.
>
> How do patients get investigational drugs?
> By far, the most common way that patients get investigational drugs is
> by taking part in a clinical trial sponsored under an IND.
>
> Are there other ways to get investigational drugs?
> Less common ways that patients can receive investigational drugs
> include mechanisms such as an expanded access protocol or as special or
> compassionate exception. The sponsor must agree to provide the drug for
> this use.
>
> Investigational drugs given under these mechanisms must meet the
> following criteria:
>
> There must be substantial clinical evidence that the drug may benefit.
> The drug must be able to be given safely outside a clinical trial.
> The drug must be in sufficient supply for ongoing and planned clinical
> trials.
>
> Expanded Access
> The purpose of an expanded access protocol is to make investigational
> drugs that have significant activity available to patients before the
> FDA approval process has been completed. Expanded access protocols
> allow a larger group of people to be treated with the drug.
>
> The sponsor must apply to the FDA to make the drug available through an
> expanded access protocol. There must be enough evidence from studies
> already completed to show that the drug is likely to be effective
> against a specific type of cancer and that it does not have
> unreasonable risks.
>
> The NCI's Treatment Referral Center (TRC) protocols are one type of
> expanded access protocol. The NCI establishes a TRC protocol when
> clinical evidence suggests that an investigational drug should be made
> more widely available to patients, even though the FDA approval process
> has not been completed. The TRC protocol is made available at
> NCI-designated cancer centers and other institutions selected to
> provide wide geographic availability of the drug to patients.
>
> Special Exception
> Patients who do not meet the eligibility criteria for a clinical trial
> of an investigational drug may be eligible to receive the drug under a
> mechanism known as a special exception to the policy of administering
> investigational drugs only in a clinical trial. The sponsor (the drug
> company or NCI) evaluates the requests on a case-by-case basis. There
> should be reasonable expectation that the drug will improve quality of
> life.
>
> Are all investigational drugs available through an expanded access or
> special exception mechanism?
> No. The sponsor decides whether to provide an investigational drug
> outside a clinical trial. Availability may be limited in part by drug
> supply, patient demand, or other factors.
>
> Who can provide access to investigational drugs being developed by
> pharmaceutical companies?
> In the case of investigational drugs sponsored by a drug company, the
> drug company in collaboration with the FDA provides access to the drug.
> The process is similar to that described above.
>
> Hope this information explains expanded access in terms which you can
> process.
>
> > What a con.
> >
> > Sign up now before it becomes a federally restricted drug. And when it
> > becomes a drug, you will get a special good guy exemption that means that
> > you do not have to follow federal law. All for $145 a month.
> >
> > To hell with the steriod wanna be. (A non-hormonal anabolic cough, cough)
> > I want one of them get out of jail cards.
> >
> > Can you get me a good deal on some other types of "federal exemptions??
> >
> > BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Sorry asshole, but this is ****ing snake oil. If it were a legitimate product,
then why do you have to sell it with this MLM crap? You are con man of the
highest order and I hope that you and your family are killed by a drunken driver.



--
Robert Schuh
"Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche

http://www.hardbopdrums.com/

Robert Schuh
September 10th 06, 11:12 PM
John wrote:

> Lee,
> There is no "good guy exemption" wherein one is given permission to
> disregard federal drug law. However, within the law that you apparently
> know thoroughly, are exemptions that allow individuals to access
> otherwise restricted substances.
> I am a Co-Investigator of Clinical Trials, certified by the NIH. That
> is, the National Institutes of Health. But of course, in addition to
> all else, you know that already. I understand your skepticism, as fraud
> is prevalent in the nutrition industry.
> As far as wannabe, I hold advanced degrees in both Biochemistry and a
> Microbiology and am currently a project manager for a recognized
> Research firm. Perhaps you should "google" Progenics and get some new
> information.
> As far as a non-hormonal anabolics, even you may have heard of
> Creatine.
> Below is some information for you to reviem that may help you
> understand the concept of Investigational exemptions.
> Or, you can continue to do it the easy way and merely express ridicule
> for the many areas in which you are clueless.
>
> What is an investigational drug?
> An investigational drug is one that is under study but does not have
> permission from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) to be
> marketed and sold in the United States.
>
> FDA approval is the final step in the process of drug development. The
> first step is for the new drug to be tested in the laboratory. If the
> results are promising, the drug company or sponsor must apply for FDA
> approval to test the drug in people. This is called an Investigational
> New Drug (IND) Application. Once the IND is approved, clinical trials
> can begin. Clinical trials are research studies to determine the safety
> and measure the effectiveness of the drug in people. Once clinical
> trials are completed, the sponsor submits the study results in a New
> Drug Application (NDA) or Biologics License Application (BLA) to the
> FDA. This application is carefully reviewed and, if the drug is found
> to be reasonably safe and effective, it is approved.
>
> How do patients get investigational drugs?
> By far, the most common way that patients get investigational drugs is
> by taking part in a clinical trial sponsored under an IND.
>
> Are there other ways to get investigational drugs?
> Less common ways that patients can receive investigational drugs
> include mechanisms such as an expanded access protocol or as special or
> compassionate exception. The sponsor must agree to provide the drug for
> this use.
>
> Investigational drugs given under these mechanisms must meet the
> following criteria:
>
> There must be substantial clinical evidence that the drug may benefit.
> The drug must be able to be given safely outside a clinical trial.
> The drug must be in sufficient supply for ongoing and planned clinical
> trials.
>
> Expanded Access
> The purpose of an expanded access protocol is to make investigational
> drugs that have significant activity available to patients before the
> FDA approval process has been completed. Expanded access protocols
> allow a larger group of people to be treated with the drug.
>
> The sponsor must apply to the FDA to make the drug available through an
> expanded access protocol. There must be enough evidence from studies
> already completed to show that the drug is likely to be effective
> against a specific type of cancer and that it does not have
> unreasonable risks.
>
> The NCI's Treatment Referral Center (TRC) protocols are one type of
> expanded access protocol. The NCI establishes a TRC protocol when
> clinical evidence suggests that an investigational drug should be made
> more widely available to patients, even though the FDA approval process
> has not been completed. The TRC protocol is made available at
> NCI-designated cancer centers and other institutions selected to
> provide wide geographic availability of the drug to patients.
>
> Special Exception
> Patients who do not meet the eligibility criteria for a clinical trial
> of an investigational drug may be eligible to receive the drug under a
> mechanism known as a special exception to the policy of administering
> investigational drugs only in a clinical trial. The sponsor (the drug
> company or NCI) evaluates the requests on a case-by-case basis. There
> should be reasonable expectation that the drug will improve quality of
> life.
>
> Are all investigational drugs available through an expanded access or
> special exception mechanism?
> No. The sponsor decides whether to provide an investigational drug
> outside a clinical trial. Availability may be limited in part by drug
> supply, patient demand, or other factors.
>
> Who can provide access to investigational drugs being developed by
> pharmaceutical companies?
> In the case of investigational drugs sponsored by a drug company, the
> drug company in collaboration with the FDA provides access to the drug.
> The process is similar to that described above.
>
> Hope this information explains expanded access in terms which you can
> process.
>
> > What a con.
> >
> > Sign up now before it becomes a federally restricted drug. And when it
> > becomes a drug, you will get a special good guy exemption that means that
> > you do not have to follow federal law. All for $145 a month.
> >
> > To hell with the steriod wanna be. (A non-hormonal anabolic cough, cough)
> > I want one of them get out of jail cards.
> >
> > Can you get me a good deal on some other types of "federal exemptions??
> >
> > BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

BTW,
This ****ing SPAM is in direct violation of the terms of agreement you have with
your internet provider. Keep it up and we will inundate your ISP with all of your
SPAM and get you tossed off. Cocksucker.


--
Robert Schuh
"Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche

http://www.hardbopdrums.com/

Curt James
September 10th 06, 11:25 PM
Pez D Spencer wrote:
[...]

re a sales pitch

> on top of that, your email originates from gmail. you're telling me
> that your company is so important that they don't have email. because
> this spam originates from gmail, your posts have been referred to
> google for review. spamming on google groups and spamming from a gmail
> account is a violation of your gmail contract.
>
> hope this helps clear things up.

Um, it didn't help me. I need things cleared up further, Spence. Could
you possibly explain it all in expanded terms so I can, uh, properly
and fully process what you're saying?

Oh, never mind. I see Mr. Schuh posted. I'm sure he'll clear things up
for me. Swear words usually help. Thanks anyway!

--
Curt

John
September 11th 06, 12:20 AM
Robert,
Thank You for your comments. You are obviously quite knowledgeable on
the subject of bodybuilding and I wouldn't presume to dispute you on
that particular subject. However, bodybuilders were not the ones who
developed steroids in the first place.
Researchers and scientists did that. To make the assumption that
performance enhancement will never progress beyond the level of hormone
analogs is an error. Would you believe that there were and even now are
some people that think that steroids don't really provide an edge?
Attempting to convince someone who has no experience in the use of
steroids, would prove futile. They are content to have an opinion in
lieu of facts.
I created a separate thread that no one is obliged to read and have not
sent anything to anyone.
As far as breaking any federal laws, investigational exemptions are a
fact of daily life in the business of medical research. I have had
significant education on this single topic. Those who decide to
participate in this study will receive a significant value and also
provide us with data which helps us to improve our efforts.
This study is being sponsored by a Non Profit Organization that helps
those who suffer from cancer and other life threatening illnesses on a
daily basis. I sleep very well. Obviously, this new information has
upset you. I hope your sick stomach improves.

Curt James
September 11th 06, 12:40 AM
John wrote:

> I am a Co-Investigator of Clinical Trials, certified by the NIH.

I almost hate to echo the familiar cry of one Robert Schuh, but... do
you have a last name, John, Co-Investigator of Clinical Trials?

And your one website starts out "Hi Everyone" which, hey, doesn't
inspire the kind of confidence you would probably desire.

Just a guess.

Hi Everyone?

Zoinks! Nothing smacks of PubMed like a good old "HI EVERYONE!"

Who do I make the check out to, John?!?!

--
Curt

Curt James
September 11th 06, 12:44 AM
Robert Schuh wrote:
[...]

> **** you and your spam along with your snake
> oil bull****. Asshole.

You're just no fun, 'bert. Next time just ask him who to make the check
out to. No swearing and, I suspect, it gets the message across just as
well.

Hth.

--
Curt

Pez D Spencer
September 11th 06, 06:43 AM
Shute wrote:
>
> He says you get be a human lab rat for cash. If that pans out the FDA
> could eventually approve it for use as a drug.

you're missing the point--it's a scam to get you to buy more worthless
products.

on the subject of clinical trials, i decided never to participate in
those after a bunch of guys had their heads blow up to elephant
proportions in england earlier this year. but, that's a whole other
argument 'cause the thing this guy is talking about is just a scam.

John
September 11th 06, 10:32 AM
Hi Shute,

Thanks for your rational post. I completely agree with your fake breast
analogy. However, the purpose of ProBol, as it applies to performance
enhancement, is not adding saline bags to your body, but to maximize
the effect of whatever exercise regimen in which you engage. This is
one of the reasons that we are not limiting the sample group to those
who exercise intensely.
I was so happy to read a post from someone practicing critical thinking
that I went back to the New England Journal of Medicine and retrieved a
well known study done in 1996 on the effects of 600 mg of Testosterone
Enanthate IM weekly on normal men. There were 4 groups in the study, 2
receiving the Testosterone and 2 receiving a placebo, 2 exercising and
2 not exercising.
The results show that the Hormone-Based Performance Enhancer worked
even without exercise. Of course, it works better with exercise, but
the men who received the Testosterone and did not exercise still gained
more strength during the duration of the 10 week "cycle" than the
men who exercised, but received the placebo. The one exception was in
the squat exercise, where the effect of the more complex neurological
skill exercisers developed became a factor.
The non exercising Testosterone group even gained more lean mass, as
well. I am not at all suggesting that any substance is a replacement
for exercise. Exercise is essential, even when done merely for the sake
of appearance, it is better than nothing. However, I see no reason to
believe that anyone who puts forth their effort should not receive the
maximum possible benefit.
I would be happy to send you a copy of the complete article. The
numbers came out like this:

Testosterone and No Exercise vs. Placebo + Exercise
Lean Mass +4.6% vs. +2.8%
Bench Press +9.4% vs. +9.2%
Squat +12.6% vs. +19.8%
Tricep Area +11.8% vs. +1.4%
Quadriceps area +6.7% vs. +5.4%

And you are very correct about the benefit to those who are bed-ridden.
We have exhaustively tested for any toxicity or negative side effects,
in our Stage II trials and found none. We are confident that ProBol
will be approved by the FDA at some point. And the "experts" that
can't find words of more than four letters will be right there,
saying how they know all about it. Without the courage to even try
anything beyond the many known dangers of steroids.
I wanted to respond to your questions. As far as wasting any effort to
convince anyone that they don't already know everything worth knowing,
I leave them to their bliss!




Shute wrote:
> On 10 Sep 2006 16:20:34 -0700, "John" >
> wrote:
>
> >Robert,
> >Thank You for your comments. You are obviously quite knowledgeable on
> >the subject of bodybuilding and I wouldn't presume to dispute you on
> >that particular subject. However, bodybuilders were not the ones who
> >developed steroids in the first place.
> >Researchers and scientists did that. To make the assumption that
> >performance enhancement will never progress beyond the level of hormone
> >analogs is an error. Would you believe that there were and even now are
> >some people that think that steroids don't really provide an edge?
> >Attempting to convince someone who has no experience in the use of
> >steroids, would prove futile. They are content to have an opinion in
> >lieu of facts.
> >I created a separate thread that no one is obliged to read and have not
> >sent anything to anyone.
> >As far as breaking any federal laws, investigational exemptions are a
> >fact of daily life in the business of medical research. I have had
> >significant education on this single topic. Those who decide to
> >participate in this study will receive a significant value and also
> >provide us with data which helps us to improve our efforts.
> >This study is being sponsored by a Non Profit Organization that helps
> >those who suffer from cancer and other life threatening illnesses on a
> >daily basis. I sleep very well. Obviously, this new information has
> >upset you. I hope your sick stomach improves.
>
> Even if one could take this magic drug which makes muscle grow while
> watching TV and eating potatoes chips. Why would that be a welcome
> product to the world. Sure you might make a lot of money. But to me
> it would be the same as the day they invented big basketball boobs.
> Now every woman who has natural big boobs is plagued with the question
> "are those real?". And I have pretty much lost interest in them.
> Most girls flaunting them have fake ones. Now apply that same logic
> to muscle and it is a scary thought.
>
> On the other hand I don't think it is possible. Even with steroids
> one must still work a muscle to make it grow. It is an extension to a
> natural process. What you propose doesn't make any sense. If all
> muscle just grew without exercise there would not be any shape or tone
> to it. And how could you target particular muscles without say
> growing ones in your head or organs. It sounds as if someone would
> end up with cancerous growths growing on. My guess is the organs or
> brain would be at risk.
>
> The only real benefit I see is possibly for those bed ridden for long
> periods of time. Or some other illness which resulted in extreme
> muscle loss. The drug might be enough to get them on their feet again
> so they can do some real exercise.

Beach Runner
September 11th 06, 01:41 PM
I have participated in a few clinical trials in the past. In the
clinical trials.
The first was as a grad student at Columbia University. I didn't
pay, I received
payment for my travel and time. I did it for the money.

They first performed a complete physical at Columbia Presbertyian
Hospital.
Then, I was put in a trial, neither the doctor nor I know if I had the
placebo
or the medication.

There were regular examinations, blood workups, EKGs and such to
determine
the results.

I was supposed to take it before going to sleep. One day I forgot and
took it
during the day. An hour later, I was miles a way, doing everythign I
could
to stay awake.

Finally, at the end, the doctor asked if I was on the active drug or
the placebo.
He said I was on the active drug, and I said "no ****".

The second drug study I was on in the last few years. A sleeping
medication.
I was once again given a complete physical, blood tests. They had to
insure
that my blood was free of any illegal medications, antihistamines, or
anything.

Each week I received my blood tests and EKG. Then, one day I got a
registered
mail saying I was kicked out of the program, because my EKG was not
normal.
The reason, since I was a runner, my pulse rate was too slow. People
that work
out need not apply.

This asshole? This "clinical trial" only costs you $145, with no
studies, not
control group, no research.

John
September 11th 06, 08:45 PM
Hi Beach Runner,

Thanks for your observations. The scenario you've described is indeed
how clinical trials are often conducted. Nice to have someone with some
experience offer their comments.
Your assumption that there is no control group is incorrect. This open
group of participants is obviously not a part of any placebo control
double blind group. End-users of any drug or supplement are not so
rigorously controlled as is a proper control group, so the data
resulting from the broader group remains of value.
As far as the "cost" of $145 is concerned, the compensation of $250
mentioned for the sake of recruiters is directly paid to those who
enter the study without a middleman. Considering that the anticipated
results are of direct and immediate value to participants is a definite
plus.
Of course, I am assuming that you don't suffer from any form of
insomnia that would make the studies in which you participated of
personal value. Assumptions, including my own, are often in error.
And you can have not the faintest idea of the prolonged efforts and
costly research that has gone into this project. However, we are
researchers and scientists and obviously not web designers or salesmen.


Beach Runner wrote:
> I have participated in a few clinical trials in the past. In the
> clinical trials.
> The first was as a grad student at Columbia University. I didn't
> pay, I received
> payment for my travel and time. I did it for the money.
>
> They first performed a complete physical at Columbia Presbertyian
> Hospital.
> Then, I was put in a trial, neither the doctor nor I know if I had the
> placebo
> or the medication.
>
> There were regular examinations, blood workups, EKGs and such to
> determine
> the results.
>
> I was supposed to take it before going to sleep. One day I forgot and
> took it
> during the day. An hour later, I was miles a way, doing everythign I
> could
> to stay awake.
>
> Finally, at the end, the doctor asked if I was on the active drug or
> the placebo.
> He said I was on the active drug, and I said "no ****".
>
> The second drug study I was on in the last few years. A sleeping
> medication.
> I was once again given a complete physical, blood tests. They had to
> insure
> that my blood was free of any illegal medications, antihistamines, or
> anything.
>
> Each week I received my blood tests and EKG. Then, one day I got a
> registered
> mail saying I was kicked out of the program, because my EKG was not
> normal.
> The reason, since I was a runner, my pulse rate was too slow. People
> that work
> out need not apply.
>
> This asshole? This "clinical trial" only costs you $145, with no
> studies, not
> control group, no research.

Will Brink
September 11th 06, 10:54 PM
In article . com>, "John"
> wrote:

> Hi Shute,
>
> Thanks for your rational post. I completely agree with your fake breast
> analogy. However, the purpose of ProBol, as it applies to performance
> enhancement, is not adding saline bags to your body, but to maximize
> the effect of whatever exercise regimen in which you engage. This is
> one of the reasons that we are not limiting the sample group to those
> who exercise intensely.
> I was so happy to read a post from someone practicing critical thinking
> that I went back to the New England Journal of Medicine and retrieved a
> well known study done in 1996 on the effects of 600 mg of Testosterone
> Enanthate IM weekly on normal men. There were 4 groups in the study, 2
> receiving the Testosterone and 2 receiving a placebo, 2 exercising and
> 2 not exercising.
> The results show that the Hormone-Based Performance Enhancer

The what? It's not a performance enhancer but a hormone that may enhance
strength and LBM. It's not anything other then good old testosterone, no
title of "hormone based performane enhancer" required. Testosterone,
breakfast of champions...

,
> I leave them to their bliss!

In God we trust. Everyone else must show data. When you publish the
results of your trials, I am sure we would all be interested to see it.

John
September 11th 06, 11:32 PM
Hi Will,
As strength is obviously one parameter of performance, an enhancement
of strength is automatically an enhancement of performance.

Of course good old testosterone, but the study of this substance, its
underlying gonane framework and the partial and total synthesis of
testosterone, related esterifications and the more than one hundred
other substances which are so very similar in their composition and
yet, wildly divergent in their in vivo effects is an area of great
interest to many researchers.

My use of the term, "hormone based performance enhancer" is less an
obfuscation than an oversimplification. When you are studying anything
on a level beyond quoting cereal boxes, precision becomes ever more
important. Your stated interest in our results when published is most
welcome.

Curt James
September 12th 06, 12:16 AM
Shute wrote:
> "Curt James" wrote:
>
> >Um, it didn't help me. I need things cleared up
> >further<snip> Could you possibly explain it all
> >in expanded terms so I can, uh, properly and
> >fully process what you're saying? <snip>
>
> He says you get be a human lab rat for cash. <snip>

Actually, all was clear. I was just adding a sarcastic echo of the OP's
snide "fully process" nonsense. I agree with your assessment, Shute.

--
Curt

Curt James
September 12th 06, 12:19 AM
Pez D Spencer wrote:
[...]

> <snip>it's a scam<snip>

True.

Or it smacks entirely of scam. Absolutely, Spence.

--
Curt

Will Brink
September 12th 06, 01:19 AM
In article . com>, "John"
> wrote:

> Hi Will,
> As strength is obviously one parameter of performance, an enhancement
> of strength is automatically an enhancement of performance.

Not true. Re think that position.

>
> Of course good old testosterone, but the study of this substance, its
> underlying gonane framework and the partial and total synthesis of
> testosterone, related esterifications and the more than one hundred
> other substances which are so very similar in their composition and
> yet, wildly divergent in their in vivo effects is an area of great
> interest to many researchers.

Down stream and up stream metabolites of T are an area of interest yes, as
is MGF, IGF1, etc. I fail to see how this relates in any way to your
posts here.

> My use of the term, "hormone based performance enhancer" is less an
> obfuscation than an oversimplification. When you are studying anything
> on a level beyond quoting cereal boxes, precision becomes ever more
> important.

Giving it a fancy name does not enhance precision, it just attempts to
make the writer look smart.

> Your stated interest in our results when published is most
> welcome.

If you have what you say you have and it's supported by solid published
data, then great! I look forward to it as a product.

Will Brink
September 12th 06, 02:32 PM
In article >, Shute
> wrote:

> On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 20:19:44 -0400, (Will Brink)
> wrote:
>
> >If you have what you say you have and it's supported by solid published
> >data, then great! I look forward to it as a product.
>
> I looked around and couldn't find one thing published about this. It
> is possible that this is some branch of Progenics Pharmaceuticals and
> they just don't want to be found because it is spam and the recruiting
> tactics are questionable. It is also possible the drug was renamed
> once it was found to have different benefits than expected. I
> searched for numerous keywords from the original post and couldn't
> find anything. If it had some success in prior cancer research I
> would have expected something. And if this company had been around
> for any length of time I would have expected something about it.
> Instead it is posted on a freebie website. I notice this guy dodges
> all such questions or statements.
>
> On the other hand this thread comes up in nearly every keyword search
> I used. This is the only place this has been mentioned.

I wont be holding my breath waiting for any published research considering
the spam/scam/MLM look of their web site which offers zero info on exactly
what it is and zero supporting lit as to why/how it does it.

Beach Runner
September 12th 06, 02:35 PM
John wrote:
> Hi Beach Runner,
>
> Thanks for your observations. The scenario you've described is indeed
> how clinical trials are often conducted. Nice to have someone with some
> experience offer their comments.
> Your assumption that there is no control group is incorrect. This open
> group of participants is obviously not a part of any placebo control
> double blind group. End-users of any drug or supplement are not so
> rigorously controlled as is a proper control group, so the data
> resulting from the broader group remains of value.
> As far as the "cost" of $145 is concerned, the compensation of $250
> mentioned for the sake of recruiters is directly paid to those who
> enter the study without a middleman. Considering that the anticipated
> results are of direct and immediate value to participants is a definite
> plus.
> Of course, I am assuming that you don't suffer from any form of
> insomnia that would make the studies in which you participated of
> personal value. Assumptions, including my own, are often in error.
> And you can have not the faintest idea of the prolonged efforts and
> costly research that has gone into this project. However, we are
> researchers and scientists and obviously not web designers or salesmen.
>

Everyone here knows you're full of ****, and you're wasting your time
here. No one is stupid enough to fall for your pitch.

Lee Michaels
September 12th 06, 03:22 PM
"Will Brink" > wrote
>
> I wont be holding my breath waiting for any published research considering
> the spam/scam/MLM look of their web site which offers zero info on exactly
> what it is and zero supporting lit as to why/how it does it.

Aw, come on Will.

Doncha think that legitimate MLM companies do authentic medical research?

Doncha think that legitimate medical research projects get their willing
research subjects by spamming newsgroups?

You must be very, very cynical!

John
September 12th 06, 08:27 PM
Robert Schuh wrote:

>
> Sorry asshole, but this is ****ing snake oil. If it were a legitimate product,
> then why do you have to sell it with this MLM crap? You are con man of the
> highest order and I hope that you and your family are killed by a drunken driver.
>
>
> Robert Schuh
> "Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
> intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
> the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
> the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
> - Nietzsche

> Hi Robert,

Thanks for writing. I tried to respond directly to the email address
you gave me, but it was non-working. However, I appreciate your
comments. I wish that you were a bit more articulate, but then for you,
bodybuilding really isn't about eloquence or even coherence,
apparently.

By the way, thanks to the public nature of your many rants, I've been
contacted by people that say you've ripped them off in your steroid
business in Phoenix. If you are going to engage in illegal activities,
you probably shouldn't get so many people mad at you.

And public postings of advice on the use of illegal drugs and how to
beat detection tests are not that bright, big guy. But, we've already
established that it's not Brainbuilding that you do, haven't we?

Apparently, they're in the process of contacting the folks there in
Maricopa County that prosecute such things, about your involvement. I
did my best, but couldn't talk them out of it. I hope that turns out
alright. Just another reason why steroids are bad news. Those laws are
meant to protect people from themselves.

I can recommend a counselor who specializes in overcompensation issues.
It's OK for you to be gay and ageing. But temper tantrums (even when
acted out by a drug addicted "adult") only seem a valid form of
expression to the 3 year old that is having one.

So, when you are sitting on a bunk in Tent City, your "gear" is in
an evidence locker, and your testosterone levels plummet to exciting
new lows, you'll have an opportunity, to think it all over. I just
hope that you don't take any friends you may have down with you.

John

Pez D Spencer
September 12th 06, 09:37 PM
John wrote:
> Robert Schuh wrote:
>
> >
> > Sorry asshole, but this is ****ing snake oil. If it were a legitimate product,
> > then why do you have to sell it with this MLM crap? You are con man of the
> > highest order and I hope that you and your family are killed by a drunken driver.
> >
> >
> > Robert Schuh
> > "Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
> > intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
> > the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
> > the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
> > - Nietzsche
>
> > Hi Robert,
>
> Thanks for writing. I tried to respond directly to the email address
> you gave me, but it was non-working. However, I appreciate your
> comments. I wish that you were a bit more articulate, but then for you,
> bodybuilding really isn't about eloquence or even coherence,
> apparently.
>
> By the way, thanks to the public nature of your many rants, I've been
> contacted by people that say you've ripped them off in your steroid
> business in Phoenix. If you are going to engage in illegal activities,
> you probably shouldn't get so many people mad at you.
>
> And public postings of advice on the use of illegal drugs and how to
> beat detection tests are not that bright, big guy. But, we've already
> established that it's not Brainbuilding that you do, haven't we?
>
> Apparently, they're in the process of contacting the folks there in
> Maricopa County that prosecute such things, about your involvement. I
> did my best, but couldn't talk them out of it. I hope that turns out
> alright. Just another reason why steroids are bad news. Those laws are
> meant to protect people from themselves.
>
> I can recommend a counselor who specializes in overcompensation issues.
> It's OK for you to be gay and ageing. But temper tantrums (even when
> acted out by a drug addicted "adult") only seem a valid form of
> expression to the 3 year old that is having one.
>
> So, when you are sitting on a bunk in Tent City, your "gear" is in
> an evidence locker, and your testosterone levels plummet to exciting
> new lows, you'll have an opportunity, to think it all over. I just
> hope that you don't take any friends you may have down with you.
>
> John

this "john" guy has to be an ex mfw troll.

but, what motivation would there be for someone to go through all the
hassle of setting up two fake websites just to sneak back in here and
start harassing everyone?

the world may never know...

Will Brink
September 12th 06, 09:37 PM
In article >, "Lee Michaels"
> wrote:

> "Will Brink" > wrote
> >
> > I wont be holding my breath waiting for any published research considering
> > the spam/scam/MLM look of their web site which offers zero info on exactly
> > what it is and zero supporting lit as to why/how it does it.
>
> Aw, come on Will.
>
> Doncha think that legitimate MLM companies do authentic medical research?

Name one!

>
> Doncha think that legitimate medical research projects get their willing
> research subjects by spamming newsgroups?

Nope

>
> You must be very, very cynical!

You have no idea...

Robert Schuh
September 13th 06, 08:06 AM
John wrote:

> Robert Schuh wrote:
>
> >
> > Sorry asshole, but this is ****ing snake oil. If it were a legitimate product,
> > then why do you have to sell it with this MLM crap? You are con man of the
> > highest order and I hope that you and your family are killed by a drunken driver.
> >
> >
> > Robert Schuh
> > "Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
> > intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
> > the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
> > the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
> > - Nietzsche
>
> > Hi Robert,
>
> Thanks for writing. I tried to respond directly to the email address
> you gave me, but it was non-working. However, I appreciate your
> comments. I wish that you were a bit more articulate, but then for you,
> bodybuilding really isn't about eloquence or even coherence,
> apparently.
>
> By the way, thanks to the public nature of your many rants, I've been
> contacted by people that say you've ripped them off in your steroid
> business in Phoenix. If you are going to engage in illegal activities,
> you probably shouldn't get so many people mad at you.

Tell me con man, how about address the fact that you are selling snake oil instead of
resorting to outright libel? The only steroid I have seen in 18 years is my
prescription for Testosterone Cypionate. You are even more pathetic than I thought.

>
>
> And public postings of advice on the use of illegal drugs and how to
> beat detection tests are not that bright, big guy. But, we've already
> established that it's not Brainbuilding that you do, haven't we?

There is nothing wrong nor illegal with anything I have done on line. BTW, I had an
academic scholarship to Stanford coming out of high school. I'll bet that you are a
product of the WONDERFUL public school system too. Hate to tell you this too Skippy,
but I also attended one of the most prestigious prep schools in the US. I'll bet your
combined SAT scores could not add up to my English score alone.

>
>
> Apparently, they're in the process of contacting the folks there in
> Maricopa County that prosecute such things, about your involvement. I
> did my best, but couldn't talk them out of it. I hope that turns out
> alright. Just another reason why steroids are bad news. Those laws are
> meant to protect people from themselves.

Stop the lying you ****ing moron. People here know me and they know that you are just
another con man trying to wiggle away from the fact that you are ripping people off by
making up lies about me. I also suggest you post your real name.

>
>
> I can recommend a counselor who specializes in overcompensation issues.
> It's OK for you to be gay and ageing. But temper tantrums (even when
> acted out by a drug addicted "adult") only seem a valid form of
> expression to the 3 year old that is having one.

Once again, why not address the facts? Do you enjoy just making up fantasy?

>
>
> So, when you are sitting on a bunk in Tent City, your "gear" is in
> an evidence locker, and your testosterone levels plummet to exciting
> new lows, you'll have an opportunity, to think it all over. I just
> hope that you don't take any friends you may have down with you.
>
> John

You know moron, you REALLY should have at least done a Google search on me to see how
****ing far out you are. Do you even know that I am NOT a bodybuilder, but a
professional Jazz musician? I challenge you to post your name. You won't for 2 reasons,
you are a coward and you know that I can sue your ass for libel. I suggest you butch
the **** up and address some facts. Moron. BTW, ANYONE with an IQ about 60 can find my
e mail address.


--
Robert Schuh
"Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche

http://www.hardbopdrums.com/

Robert Schuh
September 13th 06, 08:07 AM
Will Brink wrote:

> In article . com>, "John"
> > wrote:
>
> > Hi Will,
> > As strength is obviously one parameter of performance, an enhancement
> > of strength is automatically an enhancement of performance.
>
> Not true. Re think that position.
>
> >
> > Of course good old testosterone, but the study of this substance, its
> > underlying gonane framework and the partial and total synthesis of
> > testosterone, related esterifications and the more than one hundred
> > other substances which are so very similar in their composition and
> > yet, wildly divergent in their in vivo effects is an area of great
> > interest to many researchers.
>
> Down stream and up stream metabolites of T are an area of interest yes, as
> is MGF, IGF1, etc. I fail to see how this relates in any way to your
> posts here.
>
> > My use of the term, "hormone based performance enhancer" is less an
> > obfuscation than an oversimplification. When you are studying anything
> > on a level beyond quoting cereal boxes, precision becomes ever more
> > important.
>
> Giving it a fancy name does not enhance precision, it just attempts to
> make the writer look smart.
>
> > Your stated interest in our results when published is most
> > welcome.
>
> If you have what you say you have and it's supported by solid published
> data, then great! I look forward to it as a product.

Will,
Did you read this guy's post claiming that I was a steroid dealer and that he
knew people whom I recently ripped off? This guy can't address facts, so he
has to make up pure bull**** to try to get the heat off for selling snake oil.



--
Robert Schuh
"Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche

http://www.hardbopdrums.com/

Pez D Spencer
September 13th 06, 08:13 AM
Robert Schuh wrote:
> ...I suggest you butch
> the **** up...
>
> --
> Robert Schuh

haven't seen the ol' butch up in a while.

Larry Hodges
September 13th 06, 08:20 AM
"Pez D Spencer" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Robert Schuh wrote:
>> ...I suggest you butch
>> the **** up...
>>
>> --
>> Robert Schuh
>
> haven't seen the ol' butch up in a while.

I thought the proper nomenclature was "butch the **** up you anonymous
pussy".

Robert Schuh
September 13th 06, 08:21 AM
I have called the # given by your snake oil company's web site and given them 2 of my
phone numbers and informed them of the libelous comments you made about me. If you do
have anything to do with this company, you have opened yourself and the company to a
nice libel suit. While I know this is typical behavior from people who make a living
selling products that do not do what they claim, you will be held accountable. You
stepped WAY over the line when you claimed I was a steroid dealer and that I had
"ripped people off." We'll see if you have the balls to call me and talk to me if you
do indeed have anything to do with this company. You are truly a reprehensible piece of
****.



--
Robert Schuh
"Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche

http://www.hardbopdrums.com/

Pete
September 13th 06, 08:47 AM
"John" > schreef:

> And public postings of advice on the use of illegal drugs and how to
> beat detection tests are not that bright, big guy.

Can you post the links of the messages were Robert gives advice on how to
use illegal drugs and how to beat the tests?

Thanks!

----
Pete

David
September 13th 06, 09:59 AM
"Pete" > wrote in message
...
> "John" > schreef:
>
>> And public postings of advice on the use of illegal drugs and how to
>> beat detection tests are not that bright, big guy.
>
> Can you post the links of the messages were Robert gives advice on how to
> use illegal drugs and how to beat the tests?
>
> Thanks!
>

The answer to your questions is:
No
Because this John guy is full of ****.

Will Brink
September 13th 06, 02:39 PM
In article >, Robert Schuh
> wrote:

>
> Will,
> Did you read this guy's post claiming that I was a steroid dealer and that he
> knew people whom I recently ripped off? This guy can't address facts, so he
> has to make up pure bull**** to try to get the heat off for selling snake oil.

I did see it, and it was a strange post to be sure.

JMW
September 14th 06, 06:09 AM
Shute > wrote:

>On Wed, 13 Sep 2006 00:21:17 -0700, Robert Schuh
> wrote:
>
>>I have called the # given by your snake oil company's web site and given them 2 of my
>>phone numbers and informed them of the libelous comments you made about me. If you do
>>have anything to do with this company, you have opened yourself and the company to a
>>nice libel suit. While I know this is typical behavior from people who make a living
>>selling products that do not do what they claim, you will be held accountable. You
>>stepped WAY over the line when you claimed I was a steroid dealer and that I had
>>"ripped people off." We'll see if you have the balls to call me and talk to me if you
>>do indeed have anything to do with this company. You are truly a reprehensible piece of
>>****.
>
>I don't the phone numbers are legit. This guy is posting from google
>newsgroups with a gmail mail account. Neither is easily traceable ...

Bull****. He's posting from a Comcast server in Lakewood, Colorado.

Robert Schuh
September 14th 06, 08:12 AM
JMW wrote:

> Shute > wrote:
>
> >On Wed, 13 Sep 2006 00:21:17 -0700, Robert Schuh
> > wrote:
> >
> >>I have called the # given by your snake oil company's web site and given them 2 of my
> >>phone numbers and informed them of the libelous comments you made about me. If you do
> >>have anything to do with this company, you have opened yourself and the company to a
> >>nice libel suit. While I know this is typical behavior from people who make a living
> >>selling products that do not do what they claim, you will be held accountable. You
> >>stepped WAY over the line when you claimed I was a steroid dealer and that I had
> >>"ripped people off." We'll see if you have the balls to call me and talk to me if you
> >>do indeed have anything to do with this company. You are truly a reprehensible piece of
> >>****.
> >
> >I don't the phone numbers are legit. This guy is posting from google
> >newsgroups with a gmail mail account. Neither is easily traceable ...
>
> Bull****. He's posting from a Comcast server in Lakewood, Colorado.

John is correct. Google newsgroup posts are easy to trace unless he know how to use a Proxy
server to go through Google. The company is in Colorado, so it makes sense that he is from
there. Have you noticed that he has not posted a thing since he made up that bull****? No one
answers the phone at their "company" either. It is just a machine. I am guessing it is a cell
phone. This whole thing has scam written all over it. We here at MFW are good at outing con
men. ****, look how long ago we exposed Victor Conte as a fraud.


--
Robert Schuh
"Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche

http://www.hardbopdrums.com/

Curt James
September 15th 06, 01:09 AM
Robert Sc(huh?) wrote:
> John wrote:
> > Robert Schuh wrote:
> > >
> > > Sorry asshole, <snip>

That's 'bert - ever the diplomat.

> > > Hi Robert,
> >
> > Thanks for writing. I tried to respond directly to the email address
> > you gave me, but it was non-working. However, I appreciate your
> > comments. I wish that you were a bit more articulate, but then for you,
> > bodybuilding really isn't about eloquence or even coherence,
> > apparently.

What I read so far is the OP alluding to you being inarticulate,
lacking eloquence, as well as being incoherent. He even included the
"apparently" caveat. That's all opinion and, therefore, not subject to
libel by definition, imo.

> > By the way, thanks to the public nature of your many rants,

Here he describes some of your posts as rants which I can't see you
have a leg to stand on so far as a dispute on those grounds. Libel? Not
from my perspective.

> > I've been contacted by people that say you've ripped them off
> > in your steroid business in Phoenix.

Believable so far as there could have been some lunatic or just a
person with a grudge who actually emailed the OP. If the OP can supply
those emails or some proof of the accusations, would it make it libel
if he retold or offered that information to Usenet? Wish there was an
actual lawyer available to MFW. Oh, well.

> > If you are going to engage in illegal activities,

Robert, haven't you admitted to illegal activities already? I thought
you did time. Have I erred?

> > you probably shouldn't get so many people mad at you.

And who could argue with that statement?

> Tell me con man, how about address the fact that you are selling snake oil instead of
> resorting to outright libel? The only steroid I have seen in 18 years is my
> prescription for Testosterone Cypionate. You are even more pathetic than I thought.

Otoh, can't argue that the OP seems like a scam artist. OtOoh, you've
just admitted to steroid use. Prescription for you, yeah, but illegal
for most in the U.S., yes?

> > And public postings of advice on the use of illegal drugs

Again, didn't you just recently post about how you advised a certain
pro on the proper use of steroids or other bodybuilding drug and that
the pro refused to take your advice? Was that BEFORE AAS were declared
illegal? My bad.

> > and how to beat detection tests are not that bright,

And, although I don't recall you specifically stating "how to beat
detection tests," I'm almost certain you gave a time frame in which a
specific drug would remain undetectable by testing. Google fails me,
but it's out there. Oh, yes.

> big guy.

Ahh!!!! Is THIS the libel? You're NOT a big guy? You're only slightly
taller than Brink, right? You're a small guy. A small guy with a small
waist, yes? At least you've mentioned your waist measurement on more
than one occasion. Why, you've stated your wrists are smaller than at
least one woman's, right? Jackie something, was it? Big guy? Doesn't
sound like it.

Tiny and... sensitive from the looks of your reaction.

Weird that you'd get all bent over some mild comments. Especially as
you so casually apply aspersions like, "Ignorant bitch." See:

http://groups.google.com/group/misc.fitness.weights/msg/7f778e1d856336a5


Say, was THAT libel?

> But, we've already established that it's not Brainbuilding that you do, haven't we?

Opinion and not libel, yes? I'm just asking questions. Is that fair?

> There is nothing wrong nor illegal with anything I have done on line.

Some would possibly disagree, 'bert. I, for one, call it wrong for you
to have called MS an ignorant bitch. Ymmv, apparently.

> BTW, I had an academic scholarship to Stanford coming out of high school.
> I'll bet that you are a product of the WONDERFUL public school system too.
> Hate to tell you this too Skippy, but I also attended one of the most prestigious
> prep schools in the US. I'll bet your combined SAT scores could not add up
> to my English score alone.

That 720 you've bragged about? Affect versus effect much? Uh huh.

> > Apparently, they're in the process of contacting the folks there in
> > Maricopa County that prosecute such things, about your involvement. I
> > did my best, but couldn't talk them out of it. I hope that turns out
> > alright. Just another reason why steroids are bad news. Those laws are
> > meant to protect people from themselves.

Have you verified the claim either way? I mean people make ridiculous
claims all the time.

> Stop the lying you ****ing moron.

Oooh! A liar he may be, but it's kindasorta stoOpId for you to accuse
him of libel - malicious publication printed for the purpose of
defaming a living person - while calling him a "****ing moron." I mean,
don't you think?

....

Don't you?

Moron is defined, in part, as a person of mild mental retardation
having a mental age of from 7 to 12 years. So you're complimenting the
OP or was that printed for the purpose of defaming him? I sense some
pot, kettle, blackness in all of this.

[...]

> You know moron,

I guess namecalling is not the same as libel.

> you REALLY should have at least done a Google search on me to see how
> ****ing far out you are. Do you even know that I am NOT a bodybuilder, but a
> professional Jazz musician?

But a former... Mr. Phoenix? The court would probably want to know.

"Your Honor, the plaintiff claims that this, uh, according to his
statement, '****ing moron' - hereafter known as the defendant - accused
him of using steroids and of helping pro bodybuilders use those
steroids properly and in a manner as to escape detection of said
steroids. The plaintiff is claiming libel."

Would that be your initial argument?

> I challenge you to post your name.

WOAH! I DIDN'T SEE ~*THAT*~ COMING!!!!!!!!!

> You won't for 2 reasons, you are a coward and you know that I
> can sue your ass for libel.

Well, they say anyone can sue anyone for anything. The trick is making
it stick.

> I suggest you butch the **** up and address some facts. Moron.

Uh, would you be acting as your own counsel? Because I'd pay to see
that!

> BTW, ANYONE with an IQ about 60 can find my e mail address.

Like I said, ever the diplomat.

I'm not defending the OP and won't be sending him a check for a buck
forty-five, much less $145, however Schuh's tactic of crying libel in a
curse-riddled post filled with namecalling nonsense smacks of the same
logic he applies to unsolicited MFW advertisements as he REposts the
URLs while telling the so-called spammers to cease and desist. D'OH!

(sigh)

Too bad he's got me killfiled. ;o)

--
Curt