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View Full Version : Shorter breaks between sets, less weight?


September 12th 06, 09:50 AM
I've only recently begun weight-lifting. I experimented a little bit
and tried the following system:

a) Choose weight so you can do a set with 20 reps relatively easily
b) Only wait 10-15 sec. between each set
c) Do <original # of reps> - 1
d) Do b + c until you reached 10 reps per set, for example

I find this extremely intense. A week ago I couldn't move my arms
afterwards for 10 minutes.

Since I can easily do the full 20 reps-set the first time, I obviously
use very light weights. Now traditional wisdom says you should choose
as much weight that you can only do 10 reps (even during the first
set!), then take a break of several minutes.

Will my experimental routine with less weight but also much less
recovery time between sets result in the same muscle growth?

At least it feels that way ...

jonpaulwade
September 12th 06, 10:54 AM
The easy 20 rep set should really be considered a warm up set.
There are little benefits of lifting several sets of 20 reps. You need
to increase the weight. Try pyramidding, i.e. start with a 20 rep warm
up set, then increase the weight and do 10,8,6,4,2,1 or 5,4,3,2,1. Lift
heavier weights. And rest *more* inbetween. A minute or two.

Cheers,

Jon.
http://www.tranquillizer.co.uk/weighttraining



wrote:
> I've only recently begun weight-lifting. I experimented a little bit
> and tried the following system:
>
> a) Choose weight so you can do a set with 20 reps relatively easily
> b) Only wait 10-15 sec. between each set
> c) Do <original # of reps> - 1
> d) Do b + c until you reached 10 reps per set, for example
>
> I find this extremely intense. A week ago I couldn't move my arms
> afterwards for 10 minutes.
>
> Since I can easily do the full 20 reps-set the first time, I obviously
> use very light weights. Now traditional wisdom says you should choose
> as much weight that you can only do 10 reps (even during the first
> set!), then take a break of several minutes.
>
> Will my experimental routine with less weight but also much less
> recovery time between sets result in the same muscle growth?
>
> At least it feels that way ...

Bully
September 12th 06, 11:00 AM
jonpaulwade wrote:
> The easy 20 rep set should really be considered a warm up set.
> There are little benefits of lifting several sets of 20 reps. You need
> to increase the weight. Try pyramidding, i.e. start with a 20 rep warm
> up set, then increase the weight and do 10,8,6,4,2,1 or 5,4,3,2,1.
> Lift heavier weights. And rest *more* inbetween. A minute or two.

....or three or four!

>
> Cheers,
>
> Jon.
> http://www.tranquillizer.co.uk/weighttraining
>
>
>
> wrote:
>> I've only recently begun weight-lifting. I experimented a little bit
>> and tried the following system:
>>
>> a) Choose weight so you can do a set with 20 reps relatively easily
>> b) Only wait 10-15 sec. between each set
>> c) Do <original # of reps> - 1
>> d) Do b + c until you reached 10 reps per set, for example
>>
>> I find this extremely intense. A week ago I couldn't move my arms
>> afterwards for 10 minutes.
>>
>> Since I can easily do the full 20 reps-set the first time, I
>> obviously use very light weights. Now traditional wisdom says you
>> should choose as much weight that you can only do 10 reps (even
>> during the first set!), then take a break of several minutes.
>>
>> Will my experimental routine with less weight but also much less
>> recovery time between sets result in the same muscle growth?
>>
>> At least it feels that way ...



--
Bully
Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk
Supps: http://www.myprotein.co.uk - 5% off with my discount code MP4858

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

ranieri
September 12th 06, 01:51 PM
> wrote in message
ups.com...
> I've only recently begun weight-lifting. I experimented a little bit
> and tried the following system:
>
> a) Choose weight so you can do a set with 20 reps relatively easily
> b) Only wait 10-15 sec. between each set
> c) Do <original # of reps> - 1
> d) Do b + c until you reached 10 reps per set, for example
>
> I find this extremely intense. A week ago I couldn't move my arms
> afterwards for 10 minutes.
>
> Since I can easily do the full 20 reps-set the first time, I obviously
> use very light weights. Now traditional wisdom says you should choose
> as much weight that you can only do 10 reps (even during the first
> set!), then take a break of several minutes.
>
> Will my experimental routine with less weight but also much less
> recovery time between sets result in the same muscle growth?
>
> At least it feels that way ...
>

You're training muscular endurance. Not optimal for strength or size.

Steve Freides
September 12th 06, 03:01 PM
"ranieri" <not now> wrote in message
...
>
> > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>> I've only recently begun weight-lifting. I experimented a little bit
>> and tried the following system:
>>
>> a) Choose weight so you can do a set with 20 reps relatively easily
>> b) Only wait 10-15 sec. between each set
>> c) Do <original # of reps> - 1
>> d) Do b + c until you reached 10 reps per set, for example
>>
>> I find this extremely intense. A week ago I couldn't move my arms
>> afterwards for 10 minutes.
>>
>> Since I can easily do the full 20 reps-set the first time, I
>> obviously
>> use very light weights. Now traditional wisdom says you should choose
>> as much weight that you can only do 10 reps (even during the first
>> set!), then take a break of several minutes.
>>
>> Will my experimental routine with less weight but also much less
>> recovery time between sets result in the same muscle growth?
>>
>> At least it feels that way ...
>>
>
> You're training muscular endurance. Not optimal for strength or size.

Agreed. One could call it strength/endurance as well if the weight were
heavy enough.

Could be a fine protocol for strength/endurance using, e.g., hindu
squats or kettlebell swings.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

Kaz Kylheku
September 12th 06, 03:17 PM
Steve Freides wrote:
> Could be a fine protocol for strength/endurance using, e.g., hindu
> squats or kettlebell swings.

You know, you might consider it perfectly okay not to mention
kettlebells in, say, one out of every six or seven articles that you
post, just to give it a break once in a while.

Jason Earl
September 12th 06, 03:38 PM
writes:

> I've only recently begun weight-lifting. I experimented a little bit
> and tried the following system:
>
> a) Choose weight so you can do a set with 20 reps relatively easily
> b) Only wait 10-15 sec. between each set
> c) Do <original # of reps> - 1
> d) Do b + c until you reached 10 reps per set, for example
>
> I find this extremely intense. A week ago I couldn't move my arms
> afterwards for 10 minutes.

Soreness is not a particularly good judge of effectiveness, especially
when it comes to building muscle and/or strength. What you are
training for, in this particular case, is muscular endurance. That's
a good goal, but it is a suboptimal way to train for strength or size.

With the right exercises this sort of training can be great for
getting lean, though. If you use an exercise that engages some of
your larger muscle groups (front squats, cleans, thrusters) you can
really get your heart racing. Of course, the fact that you mentioned
your arms and not your legs means that you are probably just making
yourself sore. If you would have done 165 reps of the power clean
you'd be talking about needing a place to puke and not about having
sore arms.

> Since I can easily do the full 20 reps-set the first time, I
> obviously use very light weights. Now traditional wisdom says you
> should choose as much weight that you can only do 10 reps (even
> during the first set!), then take a break of several minutes.

It's sort of like the difference between getting writers cramp because
you spent the day filling out tax forms with a ballpoint and not being
able to close your hand because you just did a set with a Captains of
Crush gripper. Similar muscles are used in both "exercises," but only
one of these exercises is going to make your forearm huge.

It's not quite the same, but you get the point.

Not that training for muscular endurance isn't necessarily a good
thing, but most folks that lift weights have different goals than
muscular endurance. That's why they don't use these types of workout
routines.

> Will my experimental routine with less weight but also much less
> recovery time between sets result in the same muscle growth?
>
> At least it feels that way ...

The good news is that if you are just starting out anything you do is
likely to work. Keep good notes for a month or two and come back and
tell us how things went.

Jason

Steve Freides
September 12th 06, 03:48 PM
"Kaz Kylheku" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Steve Freides wrote:
>> Could be a fine protocol for strength/endurance using, e.g., hindu
>> squats or kettlebell swings.
>
> You know, you might consider it perfectly okay not to mention
> kettlebells in, say, one out of every six or seven articles that you
> post, just to give it a break once in a while.

Tempting as it is to feed the trolls, I'm doing my best to resist. But
I can't resist completely today - I'm tired.

When I train in the high-rep manner described by the OP, I use a
kettlebell because I find it the best tool for the job. I do swings or
snatches. That is one reason I mentioned it - it works for me.

I suggested hindu squats or kettlebell swings because I think those are
the two exercises best suited to the strength/endurance protocol the OP
seems to be following. They are lower-body focused exercises, and I
think for one to achieve some sort of overall "general physical
preparedness" from strength/endurance work, it needs to be focused
primarily on the lower body and/or the posterior chain. For general
health and fitness purposes, swinging a kettlebell on a regular basis
will produce much better results than the typical combination of cardio
plus machines most people do.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

Kaz Kylheku
September 12th 06, 04:18 PM
Steve Freides wrote:
> I suggested hindu squats or kettlebell swings because I think those are
> the two exercises best suited to the strength/endurance protocol the OP
> seems to be following.

The instructions: lay out five lightly lubricated kettlebells along the
floor. Then squat on each one in turn, ensuring that it disappears.
Try to stand up straight between reps. In the fist week, you will find
this very hard to do by ball 3. Repeat the set every other day. In week
3, increase kettle ball count to ten. When the abdominals become
well-conditioned, it's possible to actually suck the kettleball upward
from an incomplete squat. On the off days, light recovery activity is
suggested, such as sitting on a well-cushioned chair in front of a
computer, and spamming Usenet newsgroups with thinly veiled
solicitations to vist your website.

Steve Freides
September 12th 06, 06:26 PM
"Kaz Kylheku" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Steve Freides wrote:
>> I suggested hindu squats or kettlebell swings because I think those
>> are
>> the two exercises best suited to the strength/endurance protocol the
>> OP
>> seems to be following.
>
> The instructions: lay out five lightly lubricated kettlebells along
> the
> floor. Then squat on each one in turn, ensuring that it disappears.
> Try to stand up straight between reps. In the fist week, you will find
> this very hard to do by ball 3. Repeat the set every other day. In
> week
> 3, increase kettle ball count to ten. When the abdominals become
> well-conditioned, it's possible to actually suck the kettleball upward
> from an incomplete squat. On the off days, light recovery activity is
> suggested, such as sitting on a well-cushioned chair in front of a
> computer, and spamming Usenet newsgroups with thinly veiled
> solicitations to vist your website.

That'll teach me for replying.

Anyone wish to say, "I told you so?" Now would be about the right time.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

ranieri
September 13th 06, 12:04 AM
"Steve Freides" > wrote in message
...
> "Kaz Kylheku" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>> Steve Freides wrote:
>>> I suggested hindu squats or kettlebell swings because I think those are
>>> the two exercises best suited to the strength/endurance protocol the OP
>>> seems to be following.
>>
>> The instructions: lay out five lightly lubricated kettlebells along the
>> floor. Then squat on each one in turn, ensuring that it disappears.
>> Try to stand up straight between reps. In the fist week, you will find
>> this very hard to do by ball 3. Repeat the set every other day. In week
>> 3, increase kettle ball count to ten. When the abdominals become
>> well-conditioned, it's possible to actually suck the kettleball upward
>> from an incomplete squat. On the off days, light recovery activity is
>> suggested, such as sitting on a well-cushioned chair in front of a
>> computer, and spamming Usenet newsgroups with thinly veiled
>> solicitations to vist your website.
>
> That'll teach me for replying.
>
> Anyone wish to say, "I told you so?" Now would be about the right time.
>

Hey at least he suggested lubricating the KB's.

Pete
September 13th 06, 08:21 AM
"Kaz Kylheku" > schreef:

>> Could be a fine protocol for strength/endurance using, e.g., hindu
>> squats or kettlebell swings.

> You know, you might consider it perfectly okay not to mention
> kettlebells in, say, one out of every six or seven articles that you
> post, just to give it a break once in a while.

Forget it. He wont.
But i am watching him closely...

----
Pete

Pete
September 13th 06, 08:26 AM
"Kaz Kylheku" > schreef:

>> I suggested hindu squats or kettlebell swings because I think those are
>> the two exercises best suited to the strength/endurance protocol the OP
>> seems to be following.

> The instructions: lay out five lightly lubricated kettlebells along the
> floor. Then squat on each one in turn, ensuring that it disappears.
> Try to stand up straight between reps. In the fist week, you will find
> this very hard to do by ball 3. Repeat the set every other day. In week
> 3, increase kettle ball count to ten. When the abdominals become
> well-conditioned, it's possible to actually suck the kettleball upward
> from an incomplete squat. On the off days, light recovery activity is
> suggested, such as sitting on a well-cushioned chair in front of a
> computer, and spamming Usenet newsgroups with thinly veiled
> solicitations to vist your website.

I might have implied on several occassions in the past that CattleBells were
useless...

I will take that back.
You just gave a perfect description how to properly use them.

Hell... i will even try this routine myself. Thanks!

However... i think it would be wise to warm up carefully with ButtPlugs.
And you know what? I have a few lying around here...

----
Pete

Pete
September 13th 06, 08:28 AM
"Steve Freides" > schreef:

> That'll teach me for replying.

No.
You will do it again.

> Anyone wish to say, "I told you so?"

No.
I would have, to normal persons.

> Now would be about the right time.

Okay, if you insist.

I told you so.

Happy?

----
Pete

Pez D Spencer
September 13th 06, 03:54 PM
wrote:
> I've only recently begun weight-lifting. I experimented a little bit
> and tried the following system:
>
> a) Choose weight so you can do a set with 20 reps relatively easily
> b) Only wait 10-15 sec. between each set
> c) Do <original # of reps> - 1
> d) Do b + c until you reached 10 reps per set, for example
>
> I find this extremely intense. A week ago I couldn't move my arms
> afterwards for 10 minutes.
>
> Since I can easily do the full 20 reps-set the first time, I obviously
> use very light weights. Now traditional wisdom says you should choose
> as much weight that you can only do 10 reps (even during the first
> set!), then take a break of several minutes.
>
> Will my experimental routine with less weight but also much less
> recovery time between sets result in the same muscle growth?
>
> At least it feels that way ...

maybe i'm not understanding exactly what you're describing. so, you do
twenty reps and then do as many sets as it takes before you can only do
ten reps with the original weight?

yeah...when i started running cross country, i could barely walk after
the first week or so of practice. but, my legs didn't get huge. so, i
guess it depends on your goals.

if anything, this type of training may lead to the maturation of
capillaries within the target muscle.

ATP*
September 15th 06, 02:17 AM
"Kaz Kylheku" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Steve Freides wrote:
>> I suggested hindu squats or kettlebell swings because I think those are
>> the two exercises best suited to the strength/endurance protocol the OP
>> seems to be following.
>
> The instructions: lay out five lightly lubricated kettlebells along the
> floor. Then squat on each one in turn, ensuring that it disappears.
> Try to stand up straight between reps. In the fist week, you will find
> this very hard to do by ball 3. Repeat the set every other day. In week
> 3, increase kettle ball count to ten. When the abdominals become
> well-conditioned, it's possible to actually suck the kettleball upward
> from an incomplete squat. On the off days, light recovery activity is
> suggested, such as sitting on a well-cushioned chair in front of a
> computer, and spamming Usenet newsgroups with thinly veiled
> solicitations to vist your website.

Now I know why the sharp corners on competitive KB's are so objectionable!

Curt James
September 15th 06, 03:33 AM
Steve Freides wrote:
[...]

> Tempting as it is to feed the trolls, I'm doing my best
> to resist. But I can't resist completely today - I'm tired.
[...]

Steve, your current detractor does not merit troll classification
simply because they posted something you would have obviously preferred
not to have read.

Still, that's the easiest tactic for many.

"Oh! Well, that's just wrong. I have a great argument, but it'd be so
much easier to just offer a quick 'Troll!' and be done with it."

Especially disheartening as your reply to Kaz was otherwise reasoned
and intelligent.

--
Curt