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View Full Version : Re: Lance Armstrong's drug use may have caused his cancer


Will Brink
September 15th 06, 04:40 PM
In article <[email protected]>, spoke in the wheel
> wrote:

> http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,213881,00.html
>
> Lance Armstrong's Self-Inflicted Cancer?
>
> Thursday , September 14, 2006
>
> By Steven Milloy
>
> Did the use of performance-enhancing drugs cause seven-time Tour de
> France winner Lance Armstrongís testicular cancer? Thatís what a
> Sports Illustrated columnist suggested this week. Itís a provocative
> comment that warrants scrutiny from a scientific perspective.

From a scientific perspective, there's not much to support it. Large
reviews looking for links between things like prostate cancer and HRT, are
not finding links. Does not mean much higher doses often used by athletes
could not have effects different from that of HRT, but many made the claim
giving men HRT was going to lead to all sorts of health issues which
simply didn't happen. For example, A retrospective analysis by researchers
at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center published in The New England
Journal of Medicine found no causal relationship between testosterone
replacement and prostate cancer or heart disease risk! Nadda, zip,
nothing. According to Dr. Abraham Morgentaler

"We reviewed decades of research and found no compelling evidence that
testosterone replacement therapy increases the incidence of prostate
cancer or cardiovascular disease.≤

This review of 72 studies puts to rest-at least for me- that there is any
risk of testosterone replacement therapy, at least where it concerns CVD
or prostate cancer.



> Because one
> of the possible side effects of prolonged steroid use is testicular
> cancer.

There is no data to support that. It's yet more ignorant conjecture.


>
> Certainly Swiftís sensational charge that alleged steroid use by
> Armstrong may have caused his testicular cancer has a certain
> intuitive feel. After all, both endogenous and exogenous hormones are
> known to be involved in the development of various cancers. Science,
> however, is based on systematic observation of events, not a sports
> columnistsí

Bingo

September 15th 06, 05:14 PM
Will Brink wrote:
>
> > Because one
> > of the possible side effects of prolonged steroid use is testicular
> > cancer.
>
> There is no data to support that. It's yet more ignorant conjecture.

You are certain of this?

Lee Michaels
September 15th 06, 05:25 PM
> wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Will Brink wrote:
>>
>> > Because one
>> > of the possible side effects of prolonged steroid use is testicular
>> > cancer.
>>
>> There is no data to support that. It's yet more ignorant conjecture.
>
> You are certain of this?
>

No, your bull**** fantasies are much more credible. We will go with whatever
delusional crap you are peddling today.

There now, feel better?

A.
September 15th 06, 05:39 PM
wrote:
> Will Brink wrote:
> >
> > > Because one
> > > of the possible side effects of prolonged steroid use is testicular
> > > cancer.
> >
> > There is no data to support that. It's yet more ignorant conjecture.
>
> You are certain of this?

No one could be certain. If LA was self-dosing - it wasn't regulated
HRT. Plus, he wasn't using only testosterone. I doubt there are
many controlled studies, for example of extremely high doses of
steroids (perhaps combined with oddball other drugs he might have
used).

Just last month, testosterone in sperm was linked to higher growth
rates (not causation) of cervical cancers that are testosterone
responsive, just as in breast cancer, those who have estrogen-
sensitive malignancies will have ill effects from the administration of
estrogen - and in fact, the main treatment of such a cancer, if it
is metastasized, are estrogen-blockers, I believe.

Testosterone alone is one thing. Combine it with growth hormones,
steroids, cortisone, and EPO - who knows? EPO (which is
illegal because it is believed to be harmful and may inhibit the
response of bone marrow and the immune system) can't be detected
with current tests used for athletics. If it were me, taking a
possible blood-chemistry changing drug, which would certainly
increase red blood cells at the expense of cancer fighting cells,
while also taking large amounts of testosterone (I can't remember
LA's levels - but this last clown had WAY more testosterone
than any human should have) and cortisteroids (which also suppress
sweeper cells) seems a possible toxic cocktail. LA made himself
into a great anecdotal case - and that's simply how he's going to
be seen from now on.

Lance Armstrong fans need to realize that if someone appears to
have robbed someone else of a victory in a contest, there will be
a bit of acrimony.

September 15th 06, 05:44 PM
wrote:
> Will Brink wrote:
> >
> > > Because one
> > > of the possible side effects of prolonged steroid use is testicular
> > > cancer.
> >
> > There is no data to support that. It's yet more ignorant conjecture.
>
> You are certain of this?

You need a longer list of testicular cancer diagnoses in athletes. Just
a suggestion.

Fox News almost never fails to be crap, but hand it to them-- they know
how to sell crap.
--D-y

Will Brink
September 15th 06, 05:45 PM
In article om>,
wrote:

> Will Brink wrote:
> >
> > > Because one
> > > of the possible side effects of prolonged steroid use is testicular
> > > cancer.
> >
> > There is no data to support that. It's yet more ignorant conjecture.
>
> You are certain of this?

Yup. Show me a study that shows direct cause and effect relationship
between the form of cancer he had and AAS use.

Will Brink
September 15th 06, 06:05 PM
In article . com>, "A."
> wrote:

> wrote:
> > Will Brink wrote:
> > >
> > > > Because one
> > > > of the possible side effects of prolonged steroid use is testicular
> > > > cancer.
> > >
> > > There is no data to support that. It's yet more ignorant conjecture.
> >
> > You are certain of this?
>
> No one could be certain. If LA was self-dosing - it wasn't regulated
> HRT. Plus, he wasn't using only testosterone. I doubt there are
> many controlled studies, for example of extremely high doses of
> steroids (perhaps combined with oddball other drugs he might have
> used).

There are essentially none that really apply. One of the better reviews
worth reading:

Can J Appl Physiol. 1996 Dec;21(6):421-40.

Androgen use by athletes: a reevaluation of the health risks.

Street C, Antonio J, Cudlipp D.

Department of Health and Human Performance, University of Houston, TX
77004, USA.

It has been estimated that 1 to 3 million male and female athletes in
the United States have used androgens. Androgen use has been associated
with liver dysfunction, altered blood lipids, infertility,
musculotendinous injury, and psychological abnormalities. Although
androgens have been available to athletes for over 50 years, there is
little evidence to show that their use will cause any long-term detriment;
furthermore, the use of moderate doses of androgens results in side
effects that are largely benign and reversible. It is our contention that
the incidence of serious health problems associated with the use of
androgens by athletes has been overstated.

Pete
September 15th 06, 06:42 PM
"Will Brink" > schreef:

> "We reviewed decades of research and found no compelling evidence that
> testosterone replacement therapy increases the incidence of prostate
> cancer or cardiovascular disease.≤

According to the Doc i see twice a year, it does... the opposite!

----
Pete

Will Brink
September 15th 06, 07:07 PM
In article >, "Pete"
> wrote:

> "Will Brink" > schreef:
>
> > "We reviewed decades of research and found no compelling evidence that
> > testosterone replacement therapy increases the incidence of prostate
> > cancer or cardiovascular disease.≤
>
> According to the Doc i see twice a year, it does... the opposite!

He might be right, but more research is clearly needed. Data is quite
clear however that low T is bad for your health, men given HRT who have
low T experience improvements without seemingly increasing risks from
things like prostate cancer. Reallly high doses used by healthy guys with
normal T? Unknown, though what info we have points to exactly what the
review I posted concluded: side effects are overrated. Mixing high dose
AAS with a bunch of other drugs? Even less known about that.

betsyb
September 15th 06, 07:31 PM
"Will Brink" > wrote in message
...
> In article . com>, "A."
> > wrote:
>
>> wrote:
>> > Will Brink wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Because one
>> > > > of the possible side effects of prolonged steroid use is testicular
>> > > > cancer.
>> > >
>> > > There is no data to support that. It's yet more ignorant conjecture.
>> >
>> > You are certain of this?
>>
>> No one could be certain. If LA was self-dosing - it wasn't regulated
>> HRT. Plus, he wasn't using only testosterone. I doubt there are
>> many controlled studies, for example of extremely high doses of
>> steroids (perhaps combined with oddball other drugs he might have
>> used).
>
> There are essentially none that really apply. One of the better reviews
> worth reading:
>
> Can J Appl Physiol. 1996 Dec;21(6):421-40.
>
> Androgen use by athletes: a reevaluation of the health risks.
>
> Street C, Antonio J, Cudlipp D.
>
> Department of Health and Human Performance, University of Houston, TX
> 77004, USA.
>
> It has been estimated that 1 to 3 million male and female athletes in
> the United States have used androgens. Androgen use has been associated
> with liver dysfunction, altered blood lipids, infertility,
> musculotendinous injury, and psychological abnormalities. Although
> androgens have been available to athletes for over 50 years, there is
> little evidence to show that their use will cause any long-term detriment;
> furthermore, the use of moderate doses of androgens results in side
> effects that are largely benign and reversible. It is our contention that
> the incidence of serious health problems associated with the use of
> androgens by athletes has been overstated.

Funny, all the people responding to this post have names I never saw posting
here before?
Just a thought.

Betsy

Steven Bornfeld
September 15th 06, 07:46 PM
Will Brink wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, spoke in the wheel
> > wrote:
>
>
>>http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,213881,00.html
>>
>>Lance Armstrong's Self-Inflicted Cancer?
>>
>>Thursday , September 14, 2006
>>
>>By Steven Milloy
>>
>>Did the use of performance-enhancing drugs cause seven-time Tour de
>>France winner Lance Armstrongís testicular cancer? Thatís what a
>>Sports Illustrated columnist suggested this week. Itís a provocative
>>comment that warrants scrutiny from a scientific perspective.
>
>
> From a scientific perspective, there's not much to support it. Large
> reviews looking for links between things like prostate cancer and HRT, are
> not finding links.

In any case, the median age of onset for most forms of testicular
cancer are much lower than for prostate cancer.

Steve



Does not mean much higher doses often used by athletes
> could not have effects different from that of HRT, but many made the claim
> giving men HRT was going to lead to all sorts of health issues which
> simply didn't happen. For example, A retrospective analysis by researchers
> at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center published in The New England
> Journal of Medicine found no causal relationship between testosterone
> replacement and prostate cancer or heart disease risk! Nadda, zip,
> nothing. According to Dr. Abraham Morgentaler
>
> "We reviewed decades of research and found no compelling evidence that
> testosterone replacement therapy increases the incidence of prostate
> cancer or cardiovascular disease.≤
>
> This review of 72 studies puts to rest-at least for me- that there is any
> risk of testosterone replacement therapy, at least where it concerns CVD
> or prostate cancer.
>
>
>
>
>>Because one
>>of the possible side effects of prolonged steroid use is testicular
>>cancer.
>
>
> There is no data to support that. It's yet more ignorant conjecture.
>
>
>
>>Certainly Swiftís sensational charge that alleged steroid use by
>>Armstrong may have caused his testicular cancer has a certain
>>intuitive feel. After all, both endogenous and exogenous hormones are
>>known to be involved in the development of various cancers. Science,
>>however, is based on systematic observation of events, not a sports
>>columnistsí
>
>
> Bingo

September 15th 06, 08:07 PM
Will Brink wrote:
> In article om>,
> wrote:
>
> > Will Brink wrote:
> > >
> > > > Because one
> > > > of the possible side effects of prolonged steroid use is testicular
> > > > cancer.
> > >
> > > There is no data to support that. It's yet more ignorant conjecture.
> >
> > You are certain of this?
>
> Yup. Show me a study that shows direct cause and effect relationship
> between the form of cancer he had and AAS use.

A study of endurance athletes who took all of these substances,
admitted to it, AND were diagnosed with the same form of cancer. And
the medical researchers would need to find these cases to review. Hmm.
Easy to do, I'm sure (not).

Few people **** with their endocrine systems in the manner required to
qualify for the study you'd require.

How about you study Lyle Alzedo (formerly living football player).

Bully
September 15th 06, 08:09 PM
betsyb wrote:
> "Will Brink" > wrote in message
> ...
>> In article . com>,
>> "A." > wrote:
>>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Will Brink wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Because one
>>>>>> of the possible side effects of prolonged steroid use is
>>>>>> testicular cancer.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is no data to support that. It's yet more ignorant
>>>>> conjecture.
>>>>
>>>> You are certain of this?
>>>
>>> No one could be certain. If LA was self-dosing - it wasn't
>>> regulated HRT. Plus, he wasn't using only testosterone. I doubt
>>> there are many controlled studies, for example of extremely high
>>> doses of steroids (perhaps combined with oddball other drugs he
>>> might have used).
>>
>> There are essentially none that really apply. One of the better
>> reviews worth reading:
>>
>> Can J Appl Physiol. 1996 Dec;21(6):421-40.
>>
>> Androgen use by athletes: a reevaluation of the health risks.
>>
>> Street C, Antonio J, Cudlipp D.
>>
>> Department of Health and Human Performance, University of
>> Houston, TX 77004, USA.
>>
>> It has been estimated that 1 to 3 million male and female
>> athletes in the United States have used androgens. Androgen use has
>> been associated with liver dysfunction, altered blood lipids,
>> infertility, musculotendinous injury, and psychological
>> abnormalities. Although androgens have been available to athletes
>> for over 50 years, there is little evidence to show that their use
>> will cause any long-term detriment; furthermore, the use of moderate
>> doses of androgens results in side effects that are largely benign
>> and reversible. It is our contention that the incidence of serious
>> health problems associated with the use of androgens by athletes has
>> been overstated.
>
> Funny, all the people responding to this post have names I never saw
> posting here before?
> Just a thought.
>
> Betsy

Where is here?

--
Bully
Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

September 15th 06, 08:15 PM
betsyb wrote:
> "Will Brink" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article . com>, "A."
> > > wrote:
> >
> >> wrote:
> >> > Will Brink wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > > Because one
> >> > > > of the possible side effects of prolonged steroid use is testicular
> >> > > > cancer.
> >> > >
> >> > > There is no data to support that. It's yet more ignorant conjecture.
> >> >
> >> > You are certain of this?
> >>
> >> No one could be certain. If LA was self-dosing - it wasn't regulated
> >> HRT. Plus, he wasn't using only testosterone. I doubt there are
> >> many controlled studies, for example of extremely high doses of
> >> steroids (perhaps combined with oddball other drugs he might have
> >> used).
> >
> > There are essentially none that really apply. One of the better reviews
> > worth reading:
> >
> > Can J Appl Physiol. 1996 Dec;21(6):421-40.
> >
> > Androgen use by athletes: a reevaluation of the health risks.
> >
> > Street C, Antonio J, Cudlipp D.
> >
> > Department of Health and Human Performance, University of Houston, TX
> > 77004, USA.
> >
> > It has been estimated that 1 to 3 million male and female athletes in
> > the United States have used androgens. Androgen use has been associated
> > with liver dysfunction, altered blood lipids, infertility,
> > musculotendinous injury, and psychological abnormalities. Although
> > androgens have been available to athletes for over 50 years, there is
> > little evidence to show that their use will cause any long-term detriment;
> > furthermore, the use of moderate doses of androgens results in side
> > effects that are largely benign and reversible. It is our contention that
> > the incidence of serious health problems associated with the use of
> > androgens by athletes has been overstated.
>
> Funny, all the people responding to this post have names I never saw posting
> here before?
> Just a thought.
>
> Betsy

This message was cross-posted to 4 other newsgroups. Hence the
unfamilliar faces.

Nancy2
September 15th 06, 08:53 PM
betsyb wrote:

> Funny, all the people responding to this post have names I never saw posting
> here before?
> Just a thought.
>
> Betsy

You'll have to be more specific - there are these groups listed for
this thread:

rec.bicycles.racing, alt.gossip.celebrities, misc.fitness.weights,
rec.sport.pro-wrestling, alt.support.cancer


Many names you haven't seen before likely post in one of the groups
above that you never read. Duh.

N.

Will Brink
September 15th 06, 09:40 PM
In article m>,
wrote:

> Will Brink wrote:
> > In article om>,
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Will Brink wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Because one
> > > > > of the possible side effects of prolonged steroid use is testicular
> > > > > cancer.
> > > >
> > > > There is no data to support that. It's yet more ignorant conjecture.
> > >
> > > You are certain of this?
> >
> > Yup. Show me a study that shows direct cause and effect relationship
> > between the form of cancer he had and AAS use.
>
> A study of endurance athletes who took all of these substances,
> admitted to it, AND were diagnosed with the same form of cancer. And
> the medical researchers would need to find these cases to review. Hmm.
> Easy to do, I'm sure (not).
>
> Few people **** with their endocrine systems in the manner required to
> qualify for the study you'd require.
>
> How about you study Lyle Alzedo (formerly living football player).

What about him? His own doctors went on national TV to say they didn't
think AAS had anything tpo do with his death and he died froma type of
cancer that has never shown up with athletes using AAS. Lyle himself
blamed it on the GH I recall.

Curt James
September 15th 06, 10:27 PM
wrote:
[...]

re cancer and AAS use

> How about you study Lyle Alzedo (formerly living football player).

The schmuck won't see this, but I'm certain there was a mention in
Sports Illustrated back in the day where Alzado's doctor or some
oncologist said that brain cancer is not one of the bugaboos associated
with steroid use. Otoh, and iirc, Alzado was into more than AAS.

More Alzado:

"Lyle Alzado's ticket to the NFL was anabolic steroids. An undersized
player in high school, he began experimenting with the muscle-building
drugs in college and never stopped. That led to a lucrative career in
the NFL.

But in 1992, seven years after playing in his last regular-season game,
Alzado died from brain lymphoma, a rare form of cancer. He was 43.
Although there is no medical link between steroids and brain lymphoma,
Alzado was certain the drugs were responsible for his cancer. He became
a symbol of the dangers of steroid abuse.

The 6-foot-3, 254-pound Alzado played 15 seasons at defensive end for
the Denver Broncos, Cleveland Browns and Los Angeles Raiders. He was
twice named All-Pro and compiled 97 sacks in 196 games." From:
http://espn.go.com/classic/biography/s/Alzado_Lyle.html

--
Curt

Bully
September 16th 06, 11:41 AM
Curt James wrote:
> wrote:
> [...]
>
> re cancer and AAS use
>
>> How about you study Lyle Alzedo (formerly living football player).
>
> The schmuck won't see this, but I'm certain there was a mention in
> Sports Illustrated back in the day where Alzado's doctor or some
> oncologist said that brain cancer is not one of the bugaboos
> associated with steroid use. Otoh, and iirc, Alzado was into more
> than AAS.
>
> More Alzado:
>
> "Lyle Alzado's ticket to the NFL was anabolic steroids. An undersized
> player in high school, he began experimenting with the muscle-building
> drugs in college and never stopped. That led to a lucrative career in
> the NFL.

So, if I want a multi-milion dollar NFL contract, all I need to do is take
steroids??? Where do I sign???

>
> But in 1992, seven years after playing in his last regular-season
> game, Alzado died from brain lymphoma, a rare form of cancer. He was
> 43. Although there is no medical link between steroids and brain
> lymphoma, Alzado was certain the drugs were responsible for his
> cancer. He became a symbol of the dangers of steroid abuse.
>
> The 6-foot-3, 254-pound Alzado played 15 seasons at defensive end for
> the Denver Broncos, Cleveland Browns and Los Angeles Raiders. He was
> twice named All-Pro and compiled 97 sacks in 196 games." From:
> http://espn.go.com/classic/biography/s/Alzado_Lyle.html



--
Bully
Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Pete
September 16th 06, 12:18 PM
> schreef:

> Few people **** with their endocrine systems in the manner required to
> qualify for the study you'd require.

> How about you study Lyle Alzedo (formerly living football player).

AIDS.

----
Pete

Pete
September 16th 06, 12:21 PM
"Bully" > schreef:

>> "Lyle Alzado's ticket to the NFL was anabolic steroids. An undersized
>> player in high school, he began experimenting with the muscle-building
>> drugs in college and never stopped. That led to a lucrative career in
>> the NFL.

> So, if I want a multi-milion dollar NFL contract, all I need to do is take
> steroids??? Where do I sign???

You need to take a LOT!

And still stay fast and agile.

----
Pete

Curt James
September 16th 06, 03:53 PM
Bully wrote:
> Curt James wrote:
> > wrote:
> > [...]
> >
> > re cancer and AAS use
> >
> >> How about you study Lyle Alzedo (formerly living football player).
[...]
> > "Lyle Alzado's ticket to the NFL was anabolic steroids. An undersized
> > player in high school, he began experimenting with the muscle-building
> > drugs in college and never stopped. That led to a lucrative career in
> > the NFL.
/espn link <http://espn.go.com/classic/biography/s/Alzado_Lyle.html>

> So, if I want a multi-milion dollar NFL contract, all I need to do is take
> steroids??? Where do I sign???
[...]

Jose Canseco offered much the same statement in his book _Juiced : Wild
Times, Rampant 'Roids, Smash Hits, and How Baseball Got Big_
<http://www.amazon.com/Juiced-Times-Rampant-Roids-Baseball/dp/B000FIHZDW>.


Imagine having the eye-hand coordination, the agility, the speed, the
quickness, but lacking the power to jump to the level of professional
athlete. And you know that all you have to do is open the door or, as
some will view it, take the lid off the box. Pandora or Playa Pimp?

Obviously, Canseco and Alzado made their choice. And certainly there
are, oh, two or three other athletes who are also choosing to
experiment with muscle-building drugs as they attempt to reach their
goals. Unfortunately, as AAS are currently illegal, those hypothetical
athletes are left without an authorized medical professional to offer
guidance.

What's criminal?

Otoh, you can't mandate safety and even someone like Alzado, faced with
death, looked for the easiest target to blame for his misfortune. Can't
say I wouldn't do the same, unfortunately. I'm guessing you don't know
how you'll react to a situation until you're IN that very situation.
Likewise the question of AAS use, GH, etc. Has anyone here been at the
level of competition to actually require a choice of whether or not it
would be necessary to use anabolics? I mean a choice that would mean
the difference between being signed for a multi-million dollar contract
being passed by.

> Bully

--
Curt

Curt James
September 17th 06, 12:07 AM
DZ wrote:
[...]

> Did you know that castrates live substantially longer than
> normal males? The difference is unlikely due to behavior, <snip>

That men with low testosterone are less likely to speed, get into bar
fights, or otherwise engage in risky behavior?

> and in fact this observation replicates in animals.

That a more docile animal will get into fewer life-threatening scrapes?


I'll risk keeping the fambly jewels, but thanks for the info.

--
Curt