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Big Shot
September 17th 06, 06:22 AM
I would like to say hi to all the regulars here. I look forward to many
informative and entertaining discussions.

About myself...

- I'm 26 years old.
- Been lifting weights on and off since I was 18.
- I look like crap.
- I'm 6' and 180 lbs (maybe 15-20 pounds overweight).
- Yes, I'm skinny *and* fat.

Should I try to lose the 15-20 first, and then start "bulking" or
should I try to pack on as much muscle as possible over the next 5 or 6
months, then worry about cutting then?

Which approach would make more sense?

Any help would be appreciated.

Pez D Spencer
September 17th 06, 08:05 AM
lemme ask my magic eightball.

it says: i forsee an argument.

don't know what that means...

Robert Schuh
September 17th 06, 09:37 AM
Big Shot wrote:

> I would like to say hi to all the regulars here. I look forward to many
> informative and entertaining discussions.
>
> About myself...
>
> - I'm 26 years old.
> - Been lifting weights on and off since I was 18.
> - I look like crap.
> - I'm 6' and 180 lbs (maybe 15-20 pounds overweight).
> - Yes, I'm skinny *and* fat.
>
> Should I try to lose the 15-20 first, and then start "bulking" or
> should I try to pack on as much muscle as possible over the next 5 or 6
> months, then worry about cutting then?
>
> Which approach would make more sense?
>
> Any help would be appreciated.

I am a huge proponent of getting as lean as possible and then putting
muscle on from there. I worked out in high school and competed in 2 teen
age BBing shows, but with all the time I was spending practicing drums my
senior year of high school and then eating dorm food my first year in
college, I got up to 190 with a 33" waist. I worked out and dieted like
crazy and dropped to 140 in about 4 months and had my body fat tested at
5%. I then increased my calories about 20% and started lifting heavier and
got up to 170 in 2 months and my body fat only went to 6%. I then did my
first cycle of steroids and gained another 20 lbs in 8 weeks and dropped to
4%. At that point, I started to add some more fat to my diet and gained
another 10 lbs or so, but got much stronger etc. There is always a rebound
effect after a strict diet and just about every BBer I know of has a big
growth spurt right after a contest. Some guys like to take time off after a
contest, but that was when I really upped my calories, increased my steroid
dosages and lifted as heavy as possible. To give you an example, I won the
Mr. Phoenix in June of 1988 as a middleweight, 176 lbs. I competed in March
of 1989 at 1998 and was leaner than I was at 176. I gained over 20 lbs of
lean body mass during that period. Trust me, learning how to get lean will
always serve you well in life and it gives you a great deal of self
confidence.


--
Robert Schuh
"Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche

http://www.hardbopdrums.com/

Pete
September 17th 06, 09:37 AM
"Big Shot" > schreef:

> Should I try to lose the 15-20 first, and then start "bulking" or
> should I try to pack on as much muscle as possible over the next 5 or 6
> months, then worry about cutting then?

Yes.

Because losing weight is eassier when you have more LBM...

----
Pete

ATP*
September 17th 06, 01:19 PM
"Robert Schuh" > wrote in message
...
> Big Shot wrote:
>
>> I would like to say hi to all the regulars here. I look forward to many
>> informative and entertaining discussions.
>>
>> About myself...
>>
>> - I'm 26 years old.
>> - Been lifting weights on and off since I was 18.
>> - I look like crap.
>> - I'm 6' and 180 lbs (maybe 15-20 pounds overweight).
>> - Yes, I'm skinny *and* fat.
>>
>> Should I try to lose the 15-20 first, and then start "bulking" or
>> should I try to pack on as much muscle as possible over the next 5 or 6
>> months, then worry about cutting then?
>>
>> Which approach would make more sense?
>>
>> Any help would be appreciated.
>
> I am a huge proponent of getting as lean as possible and then putting
> muscle on from there. I worked out in high school and competed in 2 teen
> age BBing shows, but with all the time I was spending practicing drums my
> senior year of high school and then eating dorm food my first year in
> college, I got up to 190 with a 33" waist. I worked out and dieted like
> crazy and dropped to 140 in about 4 months and had my body fat tested at
> 5%. I then increased my calories about 20% and started lifting heavier and
> got up to 170 in 2 months and my body fat only went to 6%. I then did my
> first cycle of steroids and gained another 20 lbs in 8 weeks and dropped
> to
> 4%. At that point, I started to add some more fat to my diet and gained
> another 10 lbs or so, but got much stronger etc. There is always a rebound
> effect after a strict diet and just about every BBer I know of has a big
> growth spurt right after a contest. Some guys like to take time off after
> a
> contest, but that was when I really upped my calories, increased my
> steroid
> dosages and lifted as heavy as possible. To give you an example, I won the
> Mr. Phoenix in June of 1988 as a middleweight, 176 lbs. I competed in
> March
> of 1989 at 1998 and was leaner than I was at 176. I gained over 20 lbs of
> lean body mass during that period. Trust me, learning how to get lean will
> always serve you well in life and it gives you a great deal of self
> confidence.
>
Good post.

Curt James
September 17th 06, 01:44 PM
Robert Schuh wrote:
> Big Shot wrote:
>
> > I would like to say hi to all the regulars here. I look forward to many
> > informative and entertaining discussions.
> >
> > About myself...
> >
> > - I'm 26 years old.
> > - Been lifting weights on and off since I was 18.
> > - I look like crap.
> > - I'm 6' and 180 lbs (maybe 15-20 pounds overweight).
> > - Yes, I'm skinny *and* fat.
> >
> > Should I try to lose the 15-20 first, and then start "bulking" or
> > should I try to pack on as much muscle as possible over the next 5 or 6
> > months, then worry about cutting then?
> >
> > Which approach would make more sense?
> >
> > Any help would be appreciated.
>
> I am a huge proponent of getting as lean as possible and then putting
> muscle on from there. I worked out in high school and competed in 2 teen
> age BBing shows, but with all the time I was spending practicing drums my
> senior year of high school and then eating dorm food my first year in
> college, I got up to 190 with a 33" waist. I worked out and dieted like
> crazy and dropped to 140 in about 4 months and had my body fat tested at
> 5%. I then increased my calories about 20% and started lifting heavier and
> got up to 170 in 2 months and my body fat only went to 6%. I then did my
> first cycle of steroids and gained another 20 lbs in 8 weeks and dropped to
> 4%. At that point, I started to add some more fat to my diet and gained
> another 10 lbs or so, but got much stronger etc. There is always a rebound
> effect after a strict diet and just about every BBer I know of has a big
> growth spurt right after a contest. Some guys like to take time off after a
> contest, but that was when I really upped my calories, increased my steroid
> dosages and lifted as heavy as possible. To give you an example, I won the
> Mr. Phoenix in June of 1988 as a middleweight, 176 lbs. I competed in March
> of 1989 at 1998 and was leaner than I was at 176. I gained over 20 lbs of
> lean body mass during that period. Trust me, learning how to get lean will
> always serve you well in life and it gives you a great deal of self
> confidence.

I love this kind of post from Schuh. Intelligent, experience,
helpful... wonderful.

But Schuh has never been in the OP's boat (a boat that I'm basically
in). At 185 and 6'1", my bf% is around 15%. Is my math right? Does that
mean I have almost THIRTY pounds of fat on me? Regardless, my
suggestion to you, Big Shot, is to think about your goals and how you
want to reach them. Is it important to you to be as lean as possible,
especially heading into the winter.

I don't know where you're located, but my abs won't be on display until
2007, so I'm content to work a power (from my perspective) program.
I've never been especially strong, but I'm working a 5 x 3 program
concentrating on deadlift, power clean and press, and squat with assist
exercises of pulldowns, rows, reverse curls, hypers using a 4 x 6-8
set/rep scheme. Throwing in some ab work as well - supersetting leg
raises and crunches. Last workout saw a 115 lb clean followed by a
strict (okay, some lean but no jerk/push) press. Recent workouts saw
squats with 210 below parallel, and deadlifts with 315 which was my
former 1 rep max as I build toward my teen year max of 365.

Anyway, I'm more interested in building strength and muscle than seeing
my obliques right now. You make your own choice, obviously. I will say
that if I had Schuh's X structure then perhaps I'd be eager to strip
the fat and show off the tiny waist, however having inherited wide hips
and, yeah, narrow shoulders, I'll stick with the "put some muscle on"
workouts versus the "getting as lean as possible" routine.

Best of luck with your training, Big Shot. Post updates on how your
workouts proceed.

> Robert Schuh

Hey, Mr. Phoenix, I notice an absence of any mention of Tarzan or
O'Keeffe. What's up with that? Oh, well. Pay attention to Bully's .sig
when you get a chance, 'kay?

--
Curt

Larry Hodges
September 17th 06, 06:28 PM
"Pete" > wrote in message
...
> "Big Shot" > schreef:
>
>> Should I try to lose the 15-20 first, and then start "bulking" or
>> should I try to pack on as much muscle as possible over the next 5 or 6
>> months, then worry about cutting then?
>
> Yes.
>
> Because losing weight is eassier when you have more LBM...
>
> ----
> Pete

While I tend to agree with Pete over Rob, why not shorter cycles? Two
months bulking, one month cutting, two months bulking, etc.? Frist of all,
he's not 20 lbs overweight. He's just out of shape. In fact, at this
point, he could just about eat at maintenance and work out consistently and
be about at the same place in six months don't you think? Bulking and
cutting work best when you're already fairly lean. Until then, just work
out and eat right.

-Larry

Bill Eitner
September 17th 06, 07:23 PM
Larry Hodges wrote:
> "Pete" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Big Shot" > schreef:
>>
>>> Should I try to lose the 15-20 first, and then start "bulking" or
>>> should I try to pack on as much muscle as possible over the next 5 or 6
>>> months, then worry about cutting then?
>> Yes.
>>
>> Because losing weight is eassier when you have more LBM...
>>
>> ----
>> Pete
>
> While I tend to agree with Pete over Rob, why not shorter cycles? Two
> months bulking, one month cutting, two months bulking, etc.? Frist of all,
> he's not 20 lbs overweight. He's just out of shape. In fact, at this
> point, he could just about eat at maintenance and work out consistently and
> be about at the same place in six months don't you think? Bulking and
> cutting work best when you're already fairly lean. Until then, just work
> out and eat right.
>
> -Larry

I agree. Mass train, eat at maintenance or slightly
below, and see what happens.
--

Big Shot
September 18th 06, 06:30 AM
Thanks to all. I've decided to go the "bulking" route seeing as how
coat weather is already here. Probably bulk until February, then cut
March, April and May.

Like I said, I've been lifting weights on and off since I was 18. I
used to be a lot stronger and had more muscle than I do now. My high
was 205 lbs. I just weighed myself and I'm at 176 now.

By February 28, my goal is at least 200 lbs and to have exceeded all of
my personal bests in the big lifts.

I'll keep you all posted.

Bully
September 18th 06, 08:11 AM
Curt James wrote:
[...]
>> Robert Schuh
>
> Hey, Mr. Phoenix, I notice an absence of any mention of Tarzan or
> O'Keeffe. What's up with that? Oh, well. Pay attention to Bully's .sig
> when you get a chance, 'kay?

Uh?

--
Bully
Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Curt James
September 18th 06, 11:52 AM
Bully wrote:
> Curt James wrote:

re Robert Schuh

> > Hey, Mr. Phoenix, I notice an absence of any mention of Tarzan or
> > O'Keeffe. What's up with that? Oh, well. Pay attention to Bully's .sig
> > when you get a chance, 'kay?
>
> Uh?

Ah, the .sig in question:

> Bully
> Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk

Specifically:

> "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
> matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Schuh's post (elsewhere in this newsgroup) that mentioned his
get-lean-first, build-muscle-second bodybuilding philosophy included a
comment on Miles O'Keeffe, an actor who appeared with Bo Derek in a
Tarzan flick that was actually all about Jane and not the lord of the
jungle. Anyway, he received at least one good nature poke in response
to that reply. I assume he either a) didn't see the joke or b) took
offense at the comment and - as opposed to your .sig's directive, Schuh
did "mind" the comment - hence the absence of further O'Keeffe
commentary.

"Uh?" is right, Bully. Never mind my... rambling. OBVIOUSLY no reason
to make that assumption re Schuh's thought process as I'm not sure any
logic is associated with how 'bert reacts or doesn't react.

Say, is Bully your... real name?

Regardless, I appreciate the echo. ;o)

--
Curt

Bully
September 18th 06, 05:22 PM
Curt James wrote:
> Bully wrote:
>> Curt James wrote:
>
> re Robert Schuh
>
>>> Hey, Mr. Phoenix, I notice an absence of any mention of Tarzan or
>>> O'Keeffe. What's up with that? Oh, well. Pay attention to Bully's
>>> .sig when you get a chance, 'kay?
>>
>> Uh?
>
> Ah, the .sig in question:
>
>> Bully
>> Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk
>
> Specifically:
>
>> "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
>> matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss
>
> Schuh's post (elsewhere in this newsgroup) that mentioned his
> get-lean-first, build-muscle-second bodybuilding philosophy included a
> comment on Miles O'Keeffe, an actor who appeared with Bo Derek in a
> Tarzan flick that was actually all about Jane and not the lord of the
> jungle. Anyway, he received at least one good nature poke in response
> to that reply. I assume he either a) didn't see the joke or b) took
> offense at the comment and - as opposed to your .sig's directive,
> Schuh did "mind" the comment - hence the absence of further O'Keeffe
> commentary.

Ah, ok.

>
> "Uh?" is right, Bully. Never mind my... rambling. OBVIOUSLY no reason
> to make that assumption re Schuh's thought process as I'm not sure any
> logic is associated with how 'bert reacts or doesn't react.
>
> Say, is Bully your... real name?

Uh no, it started out as British Bulldog or maybe just Bulldog when I first
posted to MFW, just really to signify that fact I was British . I think most people on URB now assume it's cos
I'm a real bully :) !!!
[i]
>
> Regardless, I appreciate the echo. ;o)



--
Bully
Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Curt James
September 18th 06, 10:44 PM
Bully wrote:
[...]

re the nickname Bully

> <snip> it started out as British Bulldog or maybe just
> Bulldog when I first posted to MFW, just really to signify
> that fact I was British [it was never intended to be macho
> at all]. I think most people on URB now assume it's cos
> I'm a real bully :) !!!

Interesting, Bully. Thanks for the telling.

> Bully
> Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk
>
> "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
> matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

--
Curt

JMW
September 20th 06, 02:11 AM
"Bully" > wrote:

>Curt James wrote:[i]
>>
>> Say, is Bully your... real name?
>
>Uh no, it started out as British Bulldog or maybe just Bulldog when I first
>posted to MFW, just really to signify that fact I was British . I think most people on URB now assume it's cos
>I'm a real bully :) !!!

I know of at least on Brit who's leveled that accusation at both of
us. ;)

Bully
September 20th 06, 06:46 AM
JMW wrote:
> "Bully" > wrote:
>
>> Curt James wrote:[i]
>>>
>>> Say, is Bully your... real name?
>>
>> Uh no, it started out as British Bulldog or maybe just Bulldog when
>> I first posted to MFW, just really to signify that fact I was
>> British . I think most
>> people on URB now assume it's cos I'm a real bully :) !!!
>
> I know of at least on Brit who's leveled that accusation at both of
> us. ;)

Hmm, now who might that be?

--
Bully
Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Charles
September 20th 06, 08:35 AM
On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 21:11:38 -0400, JMW
> wrote:

>"Bully" > wrote:
>
>>Curt James wrote:[i]
>>>
>>> Say, is Bully your... real name?
>>
>>Uh no, it started out as British Bulldog or maybe just Bulldog when I first
>>posted to MFW, just really to signify that fact I was British . I think most people on URB now assume it's cos
>>I'm a real bully :) !!!
>
>I know of at least on Brit who's leveled that accusation at both of
>us. ;)

Mmmm... "on Brit"? What is this patois you speak?

Is this the same "Brit" that you made an extreme error of judgment
with? You know, the one who just wouldn't be bullied and ended up
kicking your foolish arse?

As with most "bullies", you don't like it up you John, and now you are
reduced to venturing the odd third party sideswipe, indicating quite
clearly that you were beaten at your own game! ;o)

Charles
September 20th 06, 09:01 AM
On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 06:46:19 +0100, "Bully"
> wrote:

>JMW wrote:
>> "Bully" > wrote:
>>
>>> Curt James wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Say, is Bully your... real name?
>>>
>>> Uh no, it started out as British Bulldog or maybe just Bulldog when
>>> I first posted to MFW, just really to signify that fact I was
>>> British [it was never intended to be macho at all]. I think most
>>> people on URB now assume it's cos I'm a real bully :) !!!
>>
>> I know of at least on Brit who's leveled that accusation at both of
>> us. ;)
>
>Hmm, now who might that be?

I shouldn't let Williams draw you into his silly squabbles Neil; you
have about as much success with "who might that be" as he does!! ;o)