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Bill Eitner
September 24th 06, 03:42 AM
eponymous cowherd wrote:
> It's commonly said that you should eat several hours before
> weightlifting so as to have protein in your bloodstream to be used by
> the muscles for growth. The way my scheduale is right now, it would be
> more convenient to lift early in the morning before I start work and
> then eat later. Would I be losing much by doing this?

I don't know, but just to be sure you could
have a fast acting protein drink (like whey)
first thing. That's how I start my day to
stem the catabolic tide brought on by the
overnight fast. Immediately before and
after workouts are said to be key times
to provide protein and carbohydrate. With
that in mind, pre and post workout protein
drinks, both fast acting, and then a solid
meal might be a good approach for your
situation.
--
> TIA

JMW
September 26th 06, 04:36 AM
DZ > wrote:

>Bill Eitner > wrote:
>> eponymous cowherd wrote:
>>> It's commonly said that you should eat several hours before
>>> weightlifting so as to have protein in your bloodstream to be used by
>>> the muscles for growth. The way my scheduale is right now, it would be
>>> more convenient to lift early in the morning before I start work and
>>> then eat later. Would I be losing much by doing this?
>>
>
>> I don't know, but just to be sure you could have a fast acting
>> protein drink (like whey) first thing.
>
>Ok
>
>> That's how I start my day to stem the catabolic tide brought on by
>> the overnight fast.
>
>But is that needed - say if you work out in the afternoon? There is
>improved protein retention during fasting, and OTOH there is more
>efficient utilization following the intake after the fast. What really
>matters is the comparative area under the two protein balance curves
> ......
> / \ <- pulse intake
> /_______ \
>__________// \__ <- constant intake
>........./
>
>+++++++++X++++++++++++> time
> feeding
>
>It is not obvious that the constant (or very frequent) supply of
>protein yields a higher net balance.

There is also good evidence that continued pulses of amino acids boost
muscle protein synthesis, even when it appears that the amino acid
pool is already well saturated. Unfortunately, many folks (including
Lyle) continue to ignore that evidence.

JMW
September 26th 06, 07:58 AM
DZ > wrote:
>JMW > wrote:
>> DZ wrote:
>>>Bill Eitner > wrote:
>>>> eponymous cowherd wrote:
>>>>> It's commonly said that you should eat several hours before
>>>>> weightlifting so as to have protein in your bloodstream to be used by
>>>>> the muscles for growth. The way my scheduale is right now, it would be
>>>>> more convenient to lift early in the morning before I start work and
>>>>> then eat later. Would I be losing much by doing this?
>>>>
>>>
>>>> I don't know, but just to be sure you could have a fast acting
>>>> protein drink (like whey) first thing.
>>>
>>>Ok
>>>
>>>> That's how I start my day to stem the catabolic tide brought on by
>>>> the overnight fast.
>>>
>>>But is that needed - say if you work out in the afternoon? There is
>>>improved protein retention during fasting, and OTOH there is more
>>>efficient utilization following the intake after the fast. What really
>>>matters is the comparative area under the two protein balance curves
>>> ......
>>> / \ <- pulse intake
>>> /_______ \
>>>__________// \__ <- constant intake
>>>........./
>>>
>>>+++++++++X++++++++++++> time
>>> feeding
>>>
>>>It is not obvious that the constant (or very frequent) supply of
>>>protein yields a higher net balance.
>>
>> There is also good evidence that continued pulses of amino acids boost
>> muscle protein synthesis, even when it appears that the amino acid
>> pool is already well saturated. Unfortunately, many folks (including
>> Lyle) continue to ignore that evidence.
>
>My argument is still relevant with your addition. There things to
>consider like whether we are going to hold the total protein intake
>constant. I'm also sure you remember that experiments on older people
>show a picture like the above.
>
>BTW, I never claimed that eating only in the evening like I do is
>optimal for purely athletic purposes. However, it does not preclude
>progress including gains in muscle mass as long as food and training
>coincide in time. I consider it a good compromise (if we get back to
>rodents, not only the CR but the restriction of aminoacids, notably
>the essential methionine, is life-extending).

I wasn't arguing with you, Dmitri. I eat on much the same schedule.
My point is that periodic bumps in EAA concentrations not only add
substrate for muscle protein synthesis (MPS), but also seem to have an
independent effect in the signaling of MPS. IIRC, the literature
indicates that leucine is particularly prominent in that regard.

Bill Eitner
September 26th 06, 05:26 PM
DZ wrote:
> Bill Eitner > wrote:
>> eponymous cowherd wrote:
>>> It's commonly said that you should eat several hours before
>>> weightlifting so as to have protein in your bloodstream to be used by
>>> the muscles for growth. The way my scheduale is right now, it would be
>>> more convenient to lift early in the morning before I start work and
>>> then eat later. Would I be losing much by doing this?
>
>> I don't know, but just to be sure you could have a fast acting
>> protein drink (like whey) first thing.
>
> Ok
>
>> That's how I start my day to stem the catabolic tide brought on by
>> the overnight fast.
>
> But is that needed - say if you work out in the afternoon?

In my case I believe that it is.

I work out in the afternoon, I don't eat more than
a few meals a day, and I'm done eating for the day
by late afternoon (the time between the last meal of
one day and the first of the next is often 15 or more
hours). So, for me, a fast acting protein drink first
thing makes sense as does pre/post workout supplementation.

Of course we have to keep the OPs situation in mind as
that's the focus of this thread.

> There is
> improved protein retention during fasting, and OTOH there is more
> efficient utilization following the intake after the fast. What really
> matters is the comparative area under the two protein balance curves
> ......
> / \ <- pulse intake
> /_______ \
> __________// \__ <- constant intake
> ........./
>
> +++++++++X++++++++++++> time
> feeding
>
> It is not obvious that the constant (or very frequent) supply of
> protein yields a higher net balance.

OK.
--

Bully
September 26th 06, 06:05 PM
Bill Eitner wrote:
> DZ wrote:
>> Bill Eitner > wrote:
>>> eponymous cowherd wrote:
>>>> It's commonly said that you should eat several hours before
>>>> weightlifting so as to have protein in your bloodstream to be used
>>>> by the muscles for growth. The way my scheduale is right now, it
>>>> would be more convenient to lift early in the morning before I
>>>> start work and then eat later. Would I be losing much by doing
>>>> this?
>>
>>> I don't know, but just to be sure you could have a fast acting
>>> protein drink (like whey) first thing.
>>
>> Ok
>>
>>> That's how I start my day to stem the catabolic tide brought on by
>>> the overnight fast.
>>
>> But is that needed - say if you work out in the afternoon?
>
> In my case I believe that it is.
>
> I work out in the afternoon, I don't eat more than
> a few meals a day, and I'm done eating for the day
> by late afternoon (the time between the last meal of
> one day and the first of the next is often 15 or more
> hours).

Are you meeting your goals, be they increasing strength, gaining mass?

> So, for me, a fast acting protein drink first
> thing makes sense as does pre/post workout supplementation.
>
> Of course we have to keep the OPs situation in mind as
> that's the focus of this thread.
>
>> There is
>> improved protein retention during fasting, and OTOH there is more
>> efficient utilization following the intake after the fast. What
>> really matters is the comparative area under the two protein balance
>> curves ......
>> / \ <- pulse intake
>> /_______ \
>> __________// \__ <- constant intake
>> ........./
>>
>> +++++++++X++++++++++++> time
>> feeding
>>
>> It is not obvious that the constant (or very frequent) supply of
>> protein yields a higher net balance.
>
> OK.



--
Bully
Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Bill Eitner
September 27th 06, 04:56 PM
Bully wrote:
> Bill Eitner wrote:
>> DZ wrote:
>>> Bill Eitner > wrote:
>>>> eponymous cowherd wrote:
>>>>> It's commonly said that you should eat several hours before
>>>>> weightlifting so as to have protein in your bloodstream to be used
>>>>> by the muscles for growth. The way my scheduale is right now, it
>>>>> would be more convenient to lift early in the morning before I
>>>>> start work and then eat later. Would I be losing much by doing
>>>>> this?
>>>> I don't know, but just to be sure you could have a fast acting
>>>> protein drink (like whey) first thing.
>>> Ok
>>>
>>>> That's how I start my day to stem the catabolic tide brought on by
>>>> the overnight fast.
>>> But is that needed - say if you work out in the afternoon?
>> In my case I believe that it is.
>>
>> I work out in the afternoon, I don't eat more than
>> a few meals a day, and I'm done eating for the day
>> by late afternoon (the time between the last meal of
>> one day and the first of the next is often 15 or more
>> hours).
>
> Are you meeting your goals, be they increasing strength, gaining mass?

Amazingly enough, yes. The reason I say "amazingly enough"
is that I'm trying to do the hardest possible thing:
gain mass while losing fat drug-free.

Of course I may not be meeting the goal as quickly as
is possible, but I have no good way of gauging that.

I see nutrition and exercise and "practices" just like
medicine is a practice. We do the best we can at the
time with the understanding that in time our understanding
and procedures are likely to change.

>> So, for me, a fast acting protein drink first
>> thing makes sense as does pre/post workout supplementation.
>>
>> Of course we have to keep the OPs situation in mind as
>> that's the focus of this thread.
>>
>>> There is
>>> improved protein retention during fasting, and OTOH there is more
>>> efficient utilization following the intake after the fast. What
>>> really matters is the comparative area under the two protein balance
>>> curves ......
>>> / \ <- pulse intake
>>> /_______ \
>>> __________// \__ <- constant intake
>>> ........./
>>>
>>> +++++++++X++++++++++++> time
>>> feeding
>>>
>>> It is not obvious that the constant (or very frequent) supply of
>>> protein yields a higher net balance.
>> OK.
>
>
>