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Jack VK2CJC
September 30th 06, 08:31 AM
I'm just starting out weight training (yes I know I said that 2 months ago,
but I had a false start due to illness and some international travel. This
time is for real though, honest!) and I find I really enjoy a good working
out. But like everyone I enjoy some lifts more than others.
My abs are a weak area which I want to work on so I'm doing crunches. But
crunches are one exercise I don't enjoy.
So... I was looking on ebay at the abdominal machines. Some of which are
selling for very little, $10 for some. Question is, are these things any
good? If so, what kind is most effective? Or are they cable shopping channel
rejects? (Apparently wash board abs are only 6 days away....... :o)
I feel if I had some contraption that allowed me to actually pull/push
against a weight I'd get on a lot better.
But then what would I know, I'm just a novice :o)
The benefit of your combined experience would be appreciated.

Thanks
Jack

David Cohen
September 30th 06, 08:38 AM
Jack VK2CJC wrote:
> I'm just starting out weight training (yes I know I said that 2 months ago,
> but I had a false start due to illness and some international travel. This
> time is for real though, honest!) and I find I really enjoy a good working
> out. But like everyone I enjoy some lifts more than others.
> My abs are a weak area which I want to work on so I'm doing crunches. But
> crunches are one exercise I don't enjoy.
> So... I was looking on ebay at the abdominal machines. Some of which are
> selling for very little, $10 for some. Question is, are these things any
> good? If so, what kind is most effective? Or are they cable shopping channel
> rejects? (Apparently wash board abs are only 6 days away....... :o)
> I feel if I had some contraption that allowed me to actually pull/push
> against a weight I'd get on a lot better.
> But then what would I know, I'm just a novice :o)
> The benefit of your combined experience would be appreciated.

A swiss ball and a barbell plate held on your chest: cheap, effective,
full range, weighted crunches.

David

Pete
September 30th 06, 03:15 PM
"David Cohen" > schreef:

> A swiss ball and a barbell plate held on your chest: cheap, effective,
> full range, weighted crunches.

Dont you think its difficult to maintain balance lying on that Swiss ball,
and as a result, you tend to focus too much on balance, and, as a result,
its possible that the abdominals might not contract as hard as if, assuming
the right equipment is present, when performing an exercise for the
abdominals, where the focus is more on contracting the abs as opposed to,
balancing the torso? Thank you!

----
Pete

David Cohen
September 30th 06, 04:18 PM
"Pete" > wrote
> "David Cohen" > schreef:
>
>> A swiss ball and a barbell plate held on your chest: cheap, effective,
>> full range, weighted crunches.
>
> Dont you think its difficult to maintain balance lying on that Swiss ball,
> and as a result, you tend to focus too much on balance, and, as a result,
> its possible that the abdominals might not contract as hard as if,
> assuming the right equipment is present, when performing an exercise for
> the abdominals, where the focus is more on contracting the abs as opposed
> to, balancing the torso?

No.

> Thank you!

No, thank you.

David

Andrzej Rosa
September 30th 06, 04:20 PM
Dnia 2006-09-30 Jack VK2CJC napisał(a):
> So... I was looking on ebay at the abdominal machines. Some of which are
> selling for very little, $10 for some. Question is, are these things any
> good?

What I've seen on TV looked rather useless.

> If so, what kind is most effective? Or are they cable shopping channel
> rejects? (Apparently wash board abs are only 6 days away....... :o)
> I feel if I had some contraption that allowed me to actually pull/push
> against a weight I'd get on a lot better.

Door frame mounted chinup bar is all I need for training abs. Hang
some rope from it and you'll be able to do ab-wheel like moves but with
the advantage of progressive resistance. Pull your legs up while hanging
as far as you can (overhead, if you're good) and lower them down slowly.
Works well. Start with bent legs; much easier.

> But then what would I know, I'm just a novice :o)
> The benefit of your combined experience would be appreciated.

Oh, I feel so flattered. ;-)

--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R

Pete
September 30th 06, 04:49 PM
"David Cohen" > schreef:

>>> A swiss ball and a barbell plate held on your chest: cheap, effective,
>>> full range, weighted crunches.

>> Dont you think its difficult to maintain balance lying on that Swiss
>> ball, and as a result, you tend to focus too much on balance, and, as a
>> result, its possible that the abdominals might not contract as hard as
>> if, assuming the right equipment is present, when performing an exercise
>> for the abdominals, where the focus is more on contracting the abs as
>> opposed to, balancing the torso?

> No.

Yes.

>> Thank you!

> No, thank you.

No, thank you!

----
Pete

David Cohen
September 30th 06, 06:50 PM
"Pete" > wrote
> "David Cohen" > schreef:
>
>>>> A swiss ball and a barbell plate held on your chest: cheap, effective,
>>>> full range, weighted crunches.
>
>>> Dont you think its difficult to maintain balance lying on that Swiss
>>> ball, and as a result, you tend to focus too much on balance, and, as a
>>> result, its possible that the abdominals might not contract as hard as
>>> if, assuming the right equipment is present, when performing an exercise
>>> for the abdominals, where the focus is more on contracting the abs as
>>> opposed to, balancing the torso?
>
>> No.
>
> Yes.

No.
>
>>> Thank you!
>
>> No, thank you.
>
> No, thank you!

No, thank you.

David

Pete
September 30th 06, 09:05 PM
"David Cohen" > schreef:

>>>>> A swiss ball and a barbell plate held on your chest: cheap, effective,
>>>>> full range, weighted crunches.

>>>> Dont you think its difficult to maintain balance lying on that Swiss
>>>> ball, and as a result, you tend to focus too much on balance, and, as a
>>>> result, its possible that the abdominals might not contract as hard as
>>>> if, assuming the right equipment is present, when performing an
>>>> exercise for the abdominals, where the focus is more on contracting the
>>>> abs as opposed to, balancing the torso?

>>> No.

>> Yes.

> No.

Yes.

>>>> Thank you!

>>> No, thank you.

>> No, thank you!

> No, thank you.

No, Thank YOU, Sir!

----
Pete

Steve Freides
September 30th 06, 10:25 PM
"Jack VK2CJC" > wrote in message
...
> I'm just starting out weight training (yes I know I said that 2 months
> ago, but I had a false start due to illness and some international
> travel. This time is for real though, honest!) and I find I really
> enjoy a good working out. But like everyone I enjoy some lifts more
> than others.
> My abs are a weak area which I want to work on so I'm doing crunches.
> But crunches are one exercise I don't enjoy.
> So... I was looking on ebay at the abdominal machines. Some of which
> are selling for very little, $10 for some. Question is, are these
> things any good? If so, what kind is most effective? Or are they cable
> shopping channel rejects? (Apparently wash board abs are only 6 days
> away....... :o)
> I feel if I had some contraption that allowed me to actually pull/push
> against a weight I'd get on a lot better.
> But then what would I know, I'm just a novice :o)
> The benefit of your combined experience would be appreciated.

While your abs can be worked directly, you might find you get more
effective exercise for your time if you practice compound movements like
the squat and/or deadlift. Both of these, properly performed, help
develop strong abs as part of developing a strong body overall.

Here's a non-crunch exercise for you to try - lay on the floor on your
back, knees bent, and try to push the small of your back hard into the
floor. Hold for a second or three, release, repeat. If you can do
this, try gradually straightening your legs individually or together.
You can have a friend test whether you're pushing in the floor hard
enough by placing a thin belt (a martial arts belt works well) under the
small of your back and trying to pull it out from underneath you while
you press into the floor.

Just a couple of ab-related thoughts for you.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

Jack VK2CJC
September 30th 06, 10:34 PM
> Here is a link ranking some of the common exercises:
> http://sportsmedicine.about.com/cs/conditioning/a/aa020402a.htm
>

Thanks to you guys for answering. (NO thank YOU, etc etc)

But especially thanks for the above link, it took me to some links which
showed me a few ab exercises I had never seen before and will hopefully suit
me better. The bicycle manoeuvre looks a neat and cheap move :o)

And it certainly explains why ab rollers are selling on ebay for $0.99.

cheers guys
Jack

Steve Freides
September 30th 06, 10:44 PM
"Jack VK2CJC" > wrote in message
...
> Thanks Steve. Good input. But what I should maybe have explained is, I
> don't like exercises which have no definite beginning and end. Like a
> bench press, start at your chest, finish with elbows locked straight.
> If you haven't done that, your not finished. I find ab crunches a bit
> vague and when I start to tire I don't do them properly, so its
> difficult to keep set goals.
>
> Yes I am awkward! Or as my friend says, you're special but not in a
> good way :o)
>
> The bicycle manoeuvre mentioned earlier in this thread looks good cos
> it has the goal of touching knee and elbow. i.e. a definitive end of
> manoeuvre.
>
> Maybe this wont matter as I get better, but right now I'm
> experimenting.
>
> cheers guys
> Jack

Experiment away, Master Jack. The best program is the one you actually
do, and most of us don't do programs we don't like, so I think you're
going about this correctly. Any regular exercise is better than none.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

Jack VK2CJC
September 30th 06, 10:45 PM
Thanks Steve. Good input. But what I should maybe have explained is, I don't
like exercises which have no definite beginning and end. Like a bench press,
start at your chest, finish with elbows locked straight. If you haven't done
that, your not finished. I find ab crunches a bit vague and when I start to
tire I don't do them properly, so its difficult to keep set goals.

Yes I am awkward! Or as my friend says, you're special but not in a good way
:o)

The bicycle manoeuvre mentioned earlier in this thread looks good cos it has
the goal of touching knee and elbow. i.e. a definitive end of manoeuvre.

Maybe this wont matter as I get better, but right now I'm experimenting.

cheers guys
Jack

Andrzej Rosa
September 30th 06, 11:03 PM
Dnia 2006-09-30 Jack VK2CJC napisał(a):
>
> The bicycle manoeuvre mentioned earlier in this thread looks good cos it has
> the goal of touching knee and elbow. i.e. a definitive end of manoeuvre.

It's also quite easy. Once you get more experience you may try what I
do at times.

You hang from a chining bar with your legs bent, then you put your
knees under the bar and a bit further, actually past it. It is neutral
position and a definite end of a movement. For an extra pain you may
outstretch your legs up and lower them slowly, with some pauses on the
way, if you'll become way better than I am at the moment.

> Maybe this wont matter as I get better, but right now I'm experimenting.

Crunches are as boring exercise as they come. I feel your yawn. ;-)

But actually I do not do any abs right now. I simply try to keep my
legs horizontal during dips and pullups and call it exercising. ;-)

--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R

David Cohen
October 1st 06, 12:07 AM
"Pete" > wrote
> "David Cohen" > schreef:
>
>>>>>> A swiss ball and a barbell plate held on your chest: cheap,
>>>>>> effective,
>>>>>> full range, weighted crunches.
>
>>>>> Dont you think its difficult to maintain balance lying on that Swiss
>>>>> ball, and as a result, you tend to focus too much on balance, and, as
>>>>> a result, its possible that the abdominals might not contract as hard
>>>>> as if, assuming the right equipment is present, when performing an
>>>>> exercise for the abdominals, where the focus is more on contracting
>>>>> the abs as opposed to, balancing the torso?
>
>>>> No.
>
>>> Yes.
>
>> No.
>
> Yes.


I'm beginning to see the validity of your argument.


>>>>> Thank you!
>
>>>> No, thank you.
>
>>> No, thank you!
>
>> No, thank you.
>
> No, Thank YOU, Sir!


OK, thank me.

David

Pete
October 1st 06, 03:41 PM
"David Cohen" > schreef:

>>>>>>> A swiss ball and a barbell plate held on your chest: cheap,
>>>>>>> effective,
>>>>>>> full range, weighted crunches.

>>>>>> Dont you think its difficult to maintain balance lying on that Swiss
>>>>>> ball, and as a result, you tend to focus too much on balance, and, as
>>>>>> a result, its possible that the abdominals might not contract as hard
>>>>>> as if, assuming the right equipment is present, when performing an
>>>>>> exercise for the abdominals, where the focus is more on contracting
>>>>>> the abs as opposed to, balancing the torso?

>>>>> No.

>>>> Yes.

>>> No.

>> Yes.

> I'm beginning to see the validity of your argument.

No you dont.

>>>>>> Thank you!

>>>>> No, thank you.

>>>> No, thank you!

>>> No, thank you.

>> No, Thank YOU, Sir!

> OK, thank me.

You are wellcome!

----
Pete

October 1st 06, 05:15 PM
> I feel if I had some contraption that allowed me to actually pull/push
> against a weight I'd get on a lot better.

we deal with logic here, not feelings. your feelings are wrong.

Reg Guthrie Tipton Tourist Board
October 1st 06, 07:21 PM
wrote:
> > I feel if I had some contraption that allowed me to actually pull/push
> > against a weight I'd get on a lot better.
>
> we deal with logic here, not feelings. your feelings are wrong.
FWIW have you tryed just doing barbell curls? when one weight is going
down the other is going up- make sure the weights arent too heavy and
you can do at least 10 reps each arm-you will find your abs tense
continually throughout the exercise.
Failing that try Pavels bulletproof abs- lie on the floor arms
outstretched over your head-then try and touch your toes without taking
your lower back off the floor at all-It can be done- I have never tried
an exercise that isolates ALL the abdominals like that
As with everything -cheat and you will end up with a prolapsed
sphincter and you will make the pages of www.rotten.cock

David Cohen
October 1st 06, 09:38 PM
"Pete" > wrote
> "David Cohen" > schreef (as well as wrote...I can
> schreef and write and type at the same time)
>
>>>>>>>> A swiss ball and a barbell plate held on your chest: cheap,
>>>>>>>> effective,
>>>>>>>> full range, weighted crunches.
>
>>>>>>> Dont you think its difficult to maintain balance lying on that Swiss
>>>>>>> ball, and as a result, you tend to focus too much on balance, and,
>>>>>>> as a result, its possible that the abdominals might not contract as
>>>>>>> hard as if, assuming the right equipment is present, when performing
>>>>>>> an exercise for the abdominals, where the focus is more on
>>>>>>> contracting the abs as opposed to, balancing the torso?
>
>>>>>> No.
>
>>>>> Yes.
>
>>>> No.
>
>>> Yes.
>
>> I'm beginning to see the validity of your argument.
>
> No you dont.

Yes, I do.

>>>>>>> Thank you!
>
>>>>>> No, thank you.
>
>>>>> No, thank you!
>
>>>> No, thank you.
>
>>> No, Thank YOU, Sir!
>
>> OK, thank me.
>
> You are wellcome!

No, you are welcome (the standard American spelling, not the 'roid rage
excessive letter spelling).

David

Jack VK2CJC
October 1st 06, 11:22 PM
I'm sorry you feel that way......

Pete
October 2nd 06, 07:13 AM
"David Cohen" > schreef:

>> "David Cohen" > schreef (as well as wrote...I
>> can schreef and write and type at the same time)

Then take lessons.

>>>>>>>>> A swiss ball and a barbell plate held on your chest: cheap,
>>>>>>>>> effective,
>>>>>>>>> full range, weighted crunches.

>>>>>>>> Dont you think its difficult to maintain balance lying on that
>>>>>>>> Swiss ball, and as a result, you tend to focus too much on balance,
>>>>>>>> and, as a result, its possible that the abdominals might not
>>>>>>>> contract as hard as if, assuming the right equipment is present,
>>>>>>>> when performing an exercise for the abdominals, where the focus is
>>>>>>>> more on contracting the abs as opposed to, balancing the torso?

>>>>>>> No.

>>>>>> Yes.

>>>>> No.

>>>> Yes.

>>> I'm beginning to see the validity of your argument.

>> No you dont.

> Yes, I do.

No you dont.

>>>>>>>> Thank you!

>>>>>>> No, thank you.

>>>>>> No, thank you!

>>>>> No, thank you.

>>>> No, Thank YOU, Sir!

>>> OK, thank me.

>> You are wellcome!

> No, you are welcome...

No, YOU are WellCome!

> (the standard American spelling, not the 'roid rage excessive letter
> spelling).

I prefer "wellcome."

----
Pete