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View Full Version : "Ass to the grass" Deadlifts VS Everyone else's Deadlifts


HIT Fanatic
September 30th 06, 02:01 PM
I was searching youtube to see how other people do their deadlifts, and the
vast majority look like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4odUdBf_EY

Now, for the past 4 years or so, I've been working out at home in the
basement by myself. I've always done my deads "ass to the grass" as opposed
to my thighs parallel to the ground.

I could not find one example of a deadlift on youtube done the way I do it
so that others can judge the form ("form sux", "awesome form--you don't
round out your back!").

So, which way is harder--Deadlifts with the legs parallel to the ground or
"Ass to the grass" deadlifts (deads where the starting position is that the
legs are well below parallel). I think with my deadlift form, I have the
definite advantage of never having to round out my back, however.

Have I been doing my deads the wrong way for all these years???

Pete
September 30th 06, 02:34 PM
"HIT Fanatic" > schreef:

> Have I been doing my deads the wrong way for all these years???

I hate to say it, but yes, you have been doing them wrong all these years...

----
Pete

HIT Fanatic
September 30th 06, 02:45 PM
Meh....

I'll try them the other way and let you know how it goes. Besides, I
reached a plateau with that form, anyhow.


"Pete" > wrote in message
...
> "HIT Fanatic" > schreef:
>
>> Have I been doing my deads the wrong way for all these years???
>
> I hate to say it, but yes, you have been doing them wrong all these
> years...
>
> ----
> Pete
>

Steve Freides
September 30th 06, 05:05 PM
"HIT Fanatic" > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>I was searching youtube to see how other people do their deadlifts, and
>the vast majority look like this:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4odUdBf_EY
>
> Now, for the past 4 years or so, I've been working out at home in the
> basement by myself. I've always done my deads "ass to the grass" as
> opposed to my thighs parallel to the ground.
>
> I could not find one example of a deadlift on youtube done the way I
> do it so that others can judge the form ("form sux", "awesome
> form--you don't round out your back!").
>
> So, which way is harder--Deadlifts with the legs parallel to the
> ground or "Ass to the grass" deadlifts (deads where the starting
> position is that the legs are well below parallel). I think with my
> deadlift form, I have the definite advantage of never having to round
> out my back, however.
>
> Have I been doing my deads the wrong way for all these years???

No, you haven't been doing them wrong. If the weight comes off the
ground and you don't get hurt, it's not wrong. I've never seen two
people DL in exactly the same groove.

That said, you should videotape yourself and watch where your hips are
when the bar starts to move up. I think you'll find the first part of
your ROM, from "atg" until your hips are more or less parallel, the bar
still stays on the ground. Just a prediction on my part, a video would
be the only way to know for sure.

Your way, if you do it like most low-start DL'ers I've seen, gives you a
bit of momentum which people starting with higher hips don't have, but
at the price of a higher risk to your lower back. The safest position
is the one where your hips are where they need to be to start moving the
weight, not where you sort of slam into that position with no load and
then the weight hits.

Just my opinion, post a video clip if you can.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

Pete
September 30th 06, 05:44 PM
"Steve Freides" > schreef:

>> Have I been doing my deads the wrong way for all these years???

> No, you haven't been doing them wrong.

You have a tendecy to question my wisdom, En Publique...

----
Pete

Steve Freides
September 30th 06, 09:27 PM
"Shute" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 12:05:11 -0400, "Steve Freides"
> > wrote:
>
>>No, you haven't been doing them wrong. If the weight comes off the
>>ground and you don't get hurt, it's not wrong. I've never seen two
>>people DL in exactly the same groove.
>>
>>That said, you should videotape yourself and watch where your hips are
>>when the bar starts to move up. I think you'll find the first part of
>>your ROM, from "atg" until your hips are more or less parallel, the
>>bar
>>still stays on the ground. Just a prediction on my part, a video
>>would
>>be the only way to know for sure.
>>
>>Your way, if you do it like most low-start DL'ers I've seen, gives you
>>a
>>bit of momentum which people starting with higher hips don't have, but
>>at the price of a higher risk to your lower back. The safest position
>>is the one where your hips are where they need to be to start moving
>>the
>>weight, not where you sort of slam into that position with no load and
>>then the weight hits.
>>
>>Just my opinion, post a video clip if you can.
>
> Is it better to angle you back slightly before doing the lift? I
> don't go ass to grass but I do like to have the simular angle to the
> back before I pull up. Nearly all the vids I clicked on that page
> people had backs horizontal to the ground.

There is no better, just different. As in many things, there is the
potential to trade safety for performance. The safest deadlift, IMHO,
is one in which the hips drop no further than absolutely necessary, the
head looks up and forward, and the back stays arched inwards or at least
flat.

Even with my history of back problems, however, I don't follow all those
things to the letter because if I did, I wouldn't lift as much, e.g.,
I've found that lowering my gaze at the beginning allows me to move more
weight. Everyone's build is different, everyone's strengths and
weaknesses are different, and the only way to figure it out for
yourself, IMHO, is to pull a lot, try different things, and see what's
the best combination for you. Like I said, I know that for me, if I
pull with a maximum focus on safety, which means the absolutely minimum
of flex in my spine and trying to use all hamstrings and glute for the
lift, I know I won't pull as much.

In other words, it's not about back angle or depth because those things
will vary from person to person based on their build and their approach
to the lift. It's about understanding the variables involved in the
lift and finding what's the best compromise for you.

Here's my DL'ing 345 lbs. in my basement at 153 lbs. bodyweight. I
think this clip is a year or two old by now - I don't look up as much at
the start these days but otherwise I'm pulling pretty much the same way.
You'll notice my hips, compared to many, look high, but you'll also
notice that my hips don't move up without the bar moving up.

http://www.kbnj.com/deadlift_345.rm

All just my opinions, your mileage may vary.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

Curt James
October 2nd 06, 12:33 AM
Steve Freides wrote:
[...]

re deadlifting form

> There is no better, just different.

[...]

There is no better? Well, how about when "different" injures your back?


> Here's my DL'ing 345 lbs. in my basement at 153 lbs. bodyweight. I
> think this clip is a year or two old by now - I don't look up as much at
> the start these days but otherwise I'm pulling pretty much the same way.
> You'll notice my hips, compared to many, look high, but you'll also
> notice that my hips don't move up without the bar moving up.
>
> http://www.kbnj.com/deadlift_345.rm
>
> All just my opinions, your mileage may vary.

A welcomed proviso.

> -S-
> http://www.kbnj.com

--
Curt

October 2nd 06, 01:01 AM
HIT Fanatic wrote:
>
> Now, for the past 4 years or so, I've been working out at home in the
> basement by myself. I've always done my deads "ass to the grass" as opposed
> to my thighs parallel to the ground.

i'm assuming you mean ass to floor. if your ass is that far down, like
in a super-deep squat, then my question is this: how long are your
arms? i'd assume they're fairly short if you have to get down that
far.

ps--hit blows

Steve Freides
October 3rd 06, 03:42 AM
"Curt James" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Steve Freides wrote:
> [...]
>
> re deadlifting form
>
>> There is no better, just different.
>
> [...]
>
> There is no better? Well, how about when "different" injures your
> back?

Duh.

>
>> Here's my DL'ing 345 lbs. in my basement at 153 lbs. bodyweight. I
>> think this clip is a year or two old by now - I don't look up as much
>> at
>> the start these days but otherwise I'm pulling pretty much the same
>> way.
>> You'll notice my hips, compared to many, look high, but you'll also
>> notice that my hips don't move up without the bar moving up.
>>
>> http://www.kbnj.com/deadlift_345.rm
>>
>> All just my opinions, your mileage may vary.
>
> A welcomed proviso.

No ****, Sherlock.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

>> -S-
>> http://www.kbnj.com
>
> --
> Curt
>

Curt James
October 3rd 06, 04:19 AM
Steve Freides wrote:
> "Curt James" wrote
> > Steve Freides wrote:
> > [...]
> >
> > re deadlifting form
> >
> >> There is no better, just different.
> > [...]
> >
> > There is no better? Well, how about when "different" injures
> > your back?
>
> Duh.

More like D'OH! There *is* better as there's correct and incorrect
form.

[...]

> No ****, Sherlock.

Is it 1973?

--
Curt

Steve Freides
October 3rd 06, 04:38 AM
"Curt James" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Steve Freides wrote:
>> "Curt James" wrote
>> > Steve Freides wrote:
>> > [...]
>> >
>> > re deadlifting form
>> >
>> >> There is no better, just different.
>> > [...]
>> >
>> > There is no better? Well, how about when "different" injures
>> > your back?
>>
>> Duh.
>
> More like D'OH! There *is* better as there's correct and incorrect
> form.

Are you really _that_ stupid? In my first reply, I said, "If the weight
comes off the ground and you don't get hurt, it's not wrong. I've never
seen two people DL in exactly the same groove," to which the next
person asked if it was better to angle your back a certain way. And to
that I replied "there is no better, just different." My 9-year-old
could pick up on what I meant. Let's go for a little more reading
comprehension here next time, please. Everybody got it except you.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com


> [...]
>
>> No ****, Sherlock.
>
> Is it 1973?
>
> --
> Curt
>

Curt James
October 3rd 06, 04:51 AM
Steve Freides wrote:
[...]

re yours truly

> Are you really _that_ stupid?

Sure.

I've said before and I'm sure I'll say again - there's no limit to what
I don't know. ;o)

But, hey, speaking of stupid...

> My 9-year-old could pick up on what I meant.

Hmm. Is that what you consider /speaking highly of/ your 9-year-old? Or
would you like to reword?

That's fine, though. You, uh, win?

--
Curt

Pete
October 3rd 06, 11:03 AM
"Curt James" > schreef:

>> My 9-year-old could pick up on what I meant.

> Hmm. Is that what you consider /speaking highly of/ your 9-year-old? Or
> would you like to reword?

> That's fine, though. You, uh, win?

Steve still didnt get over the fact that i had these wondefull dreams about
KettleBells, and he didnt.

Makes him a bit cranky. Best to leave him alone for a couple of days.

----
Pete

Curt James
October 3rd 06, 11:31 AM
Pete wrote:
> "Curt James" schreef:
>
> >> My 9-year-old could pick up on what I meant.
>
> > Hmm. Is that what you consider /speaking highly of/
> > your 9-year-old? Or would you like to reword?
>
> > That's fine, though. You, uh, win?
>
> Steve still didnt get over the fact that i had these wondefull
> dreams about KettleBells, and he didnt.
>
> Makes him a bit cranky.

Oh, I see.

> Best to leave him alone for a couple of days.

Thanks for that advice. ;o)

> Pete

--
Curt

Steve Freides
October 3rd 06, 02:27 PM
"Curt James" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Steve Freides wrote:
> [...]
>
> re yours truly
>
>> Are you really _that_ stupid?
>
> Sure.
>
> I've said before and I'm sure I'll say again - there's no limit to
> what
> I don't know. ;o)
>
> But, hey, speaking of stupid...
>
>> My 9-year-old could pick up on what I meant.
>
> Hmm. Is that what you consider /speaking highly of/ your 9-year-old?
> Or
> would you like to reword?
>
> That's fine, though. You, uh, win?

I'm not interested in winning. I have been guilty of responding without
reading carefully first and ask only that you also try to avoid it in
the future.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com


> --
> Curt
>

Pete
October 3rd 06, 03:12 PM
"Steve Freides" > schreef:

>> Hmm. Is that what you consider /speaking highly of/ your 9-year-old? Or
>> would you like to reword?

>> That's fine, though. You, uh, win?

> I'm not interested in winning. I have been guilty of responding without
> reading carefully first and ask only that you also try to avoid it in the
> future.

Somebody is Cranky!
Somebody is Cranky!
Somebody is Cranky!
Somebody is Cranky!
Somebody is Cranky!
Somebody is Cranky!
Somebody is Cranky!
Somebody is Cranky!

Ne-ne-ne-neeeehhhh-neh!
Ne-ne-ne-neeeehhhh-neh!

----
Pete

Curt James
October 3rd 06, 09:00 PM
Steve Freides wrote:
[...]

> <snip> I have been guilty of responding without
> reading carefully first

And?

> and ask only that you also try to avoid it in the
> future.

I read your statement... carefully and replied accordingly, imo.

And, hey, kiiiindly preface future posts of this nature with an OT,
'kay? Because you know how very important that is to the smooth
functioning of this newsgroup.

Tia.

--
Curt

Steve Freides
October 3rd 06, 09:20 PM
"Curt James" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Steve Freides wrote:
> [...]
>
>> <snip> I have been guilty of responding without
>> reading carefully first
>
> And?
>
>> and ask only that you also try to avoid it in the
>> future.
>
> I read your statement... carefully and replied accordingly, imo.
>
> And, hey, kiiiindly preface future posts of this nature with an OT,
> 'kay? Because you know how very important that is to the smooth
> functioning of this newsgroup.
>
> Tia.

Well, you can't say I didn't try. Have a nice life.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

Curt James
October 4th 06, 01:18 AM
Steve Freides wrote:
> "Curt James" wrote
> > Steve Freides wrote:
> > [...]
> >
> >> <snip> I have been guilty of responding without
> >> reading carefully first
> >
> > And?
> >
> >> and ask only that you also try to avoid it in the
> >> future.
> >
> > I read your statement... carefully and replied accordingly, imo.
> >
> > And, hey, kiiiindly preface future posts of this nature with an OT,
> > 'kay? Because you know how very important that is to the smooth
> > functioning of this newsgroup.
> >
> > Tia.
>
> Well, you can't say I didn't try.

I can.

And will.

You didn't try. You were unnecessarily rude, imo, with your OT nonsense
elsewhere in this newsgroup. Hey, call me sensitive. "Waaaah! Steve
asked me to label something off topic! He's a meaniehead!"

That and, yeah, I thought your comment was - to borrow from Schuh's
philosophy of diplomacy - idiotic.

> Have a nice life.

You, too.

> -S-
> http://www.kbnj.com

--
Curt
http://curtjames.com/

Steve Freides
October 4th 06, 02:03 PM
"Shute" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 16:27:56 -0400, "Steve Freides"
> > wrote:
>
>>There is no better, just different. As in many things, there is the
>>potential to trade safety for performance. The safest deadlift, IMHO,
>>is one in which the hips drop no further than absolutely necessary,
>>the
>>head looks up and forward, and the back stays arched inwards or at
>>least
>>flat.
>>
>>Even with my history of back problems, however, I don't follow all
>>those
>>things to the letter because if I did, I wouldn't lift as much, e.g.,
>>I've found that lowering my gaze at the beginning allows me to move
>>more
>>weight. Everyone's build is different, everyone's strengths and
>>weaknesses are different, and the only way to figure it out for
>>yourself, IMHO, is to pull a lot, try different things, and see what's
>>the best combination for you. Like I said, I know that for me, if I
>>pull with a maximum focus on safety, which means the absolutely
>>minimum
>>of flex in my spine and trying to use all hamstrings and glute for the
>>lift, I know I won't pull as much.
>>
>>In other words, it's not about back angle or depth because those
>>things
>>will vary from person to person based on their build and their
>>approach
>>to the lift. It's about understanding the variables involved in the
>>lift and finding what's the best compromise for you.
>>
>>Here's my DL'ing 345 lbs. in my basement at 153 lbs. bodyweight. I
>>think this clip is a year or two old by now - I don't look up as much
>>at
>>the start these days but otherwise I'm pulling pretty much the same
>>way.
>>You'll notice my hips, compared to many, look high, but you'll also
>>notice that my hips don't move up without the bar moving up.
>>
>>http://www.kbnj.com/deadlift_345.rm
>>
>>All just my opinions, your mileage may vary.
>>
>>-S-
>>http://www.kbnj.com
>
> Hey Steve I took one of the things you said and put it to use in my
> last workout. Your right about starting too low. It just ends up
> starting the lift with too much momentum which probably strains the
> muscles a bit. Instead I managed to find the spot where I would start
> lifting the weight and lined up there. The lifts went a lot smoother.
> I also decided to do the alternate grip as I got tired in my later
> sets. The book I have says to try and use an overhand grip so both
> arms get worked evenly and the grip gets stronger. Except if it is
> impacting how much weight I can lift I figured I would alternate the
> grip as I got tired. That let me lift a bunch more reps. I think I
> ma starting to get good at these.

All sounds good to me - many people use an overhand grip until the
weight reaches a certain point then switch to an over/under grip. I'm
lifting all overhand now but typically when I'm a few weeks away from a
meet, I switch to over/under all the time just to get more used to it.
I try to switch which hand is over and which is under, usually by the
set, so that development is balanced, but as the weight gets heavier,
I'll use the weaker over/under grip for the lighter sets and save my
stronger grip for the heaviest weights. In the meet, I'll usually take
my first attempt with my weaker grip then the second and third with the
stronger.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

Hobbes
October 4th 06, 02:30 PM
In article >,
"Steve Freides" > wrote:

> "Shute" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 16:27:56 -0400, "Steve Freides"
> > > wrote:
> >
> >>There is no better, just different. As in many things, there is the
> >>potential to trade safety for performance. The safest deadlift, IMHO,
> >>is one in which the hips drop no further than absolutely necessary,
> >>the
> >>head looks up and forward, and the back stays arched inwards or at
> >>least
> >>flat.
> >>
> >>Even with my history of back problems, however, I don't follow all
> >>those
> >>things to the letter because if I did, I wouldn't lift as much, e.g.,
> >>I've found that lowering my gaze at the beginning allows me to move
> >>more
> >>weight. Everyone's build is different, everyone's strengths and
> >>weaknesses are different, and the only way to figure it out for
> >>yourself, IMHO, is to pull a lot, try different things, and see what's
> >>the best combination for you. Like I said, I know that for me, if I
> >>pull with a maximum focus on safety, which means the absolutely
> >>minimum
> >>of flex in my spine and trying to use all hamstrings and glute for the
> >>lift, I know I won't pull as much.
> >>
> >>In other words, it's not about back angle or depth because those
> >>things
> >>will vary from person to person based on their build and their
> >>approach
> >>to the lift. It's about understanding the variables involved in the
> >>lift and finding what's the best compromise for you.
> >>
> >>Here's my DL'ing 345 lbs. in my basement at 153 lbs. bodyweight. I
> >>think this clip is a year or two old by now - I don't look up as much
> >>at
> >>the start these days but otherwise I'm pulling pretty much the same
> >>way.
> >>You'll notice my hips, compared to many, look high, but you'll also
> >>notice that my hips don't move up without the bar moving up.
> >>
> >>http://www.kbnj.com/deadlift_345.rm
> >>
> >>All just my opinions, your mileage may vary.
> >>
> >>-S-
> >>http://www.kbnj.com
> >
> > Hey Steve I took one of the things you said and put it to use in my
> > last workout. Your right about starting too low. It just ends up
> > starting the lift with too much momentum which probably strains the
> > muscles a bit. Instead I managed to find the spot where I would start
> > lifting the weight and lined up there. The lifts went a lot smoother.
> > I also decided to do the alternate grip as I got tired in my later
> > sets. The book I have says to try and use an overhand grip so both
> > arms get worked evenly and the grip gets stronger. Except if it is
> > impacting how much weight I can lift I figured I would alternate the
> > grip as I got tired. That let me lift a bunch more reps. I think I
> > ma starting to get good at these.
>
> All sounds good to me - many people use an overhand grip until the
> weight reaches a certain point then switch to an over/under grip. I'm
> lifting all overhand now but typically when I'm a few weeks away from a
> meet, I switch to over/under all the time just to get more used to it.
> I try to switch which hand is over and which is under, usually by the
> set, so that development is balanced, but as the weight gets heavier,
> I'll use the weaker over/under grip for the lighter sets and save my
> stronger grip for the heaviest weights. In the meet, I'll usually take
> my first attempt with my weaker grip then the second and third with the
> stronger.

Or you can use the hook grip. Hurts too start off with, but you do get
used to it.

--
Keith