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Pete
September 30th 06, 06:07 PM
Decide for yourself...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYOJ5wmoSuU&feature=RecentlyWatched&page=1&t=t&f=b

----
Pete

Larry Hodges
October 1st 06, 06:44 AM
"Pete" > wrote in message
...
> Decide for yourself...
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYOJ5wmoSuU&feature=RecentlyWatched&page=1&t=t&f=b
>
> ----
> Pete

All I see is a Juice Junkie. Sorry...that's what I see...

-Larry

Pete
October 1st 06, 03:55 PM
"Larry Hodges" > schreef:

>> Decide for yourself...

> All I see is a Juice Junkie. Sorry...that's what I see...

What makes you think that Art is on steroids?

BTW, "juice junkie" has a negative ring to it. Would it make you feel better
if substances that promote protein synthseis were legal?

----
Pete

Larry Hodges
October 1st 06, 05:28 PM
"Pete" > wrote in message
...
> "Larry Hodges" > schreef:
>
>>> Decide for yourself...
>
>> All I see is a Juice Junkie. Sorry...that's what I see...
>
> What makes you think that Art is on steroids?

By looking at him. You can't tell? Pete, I thought you were more savvy
than that.

> BTW, "juice junkie" has a negative ring to it. Would it make you feel
> better if substances that promote protein synthseis were legal?

I know they're legal in your country. So are many other drugs that really
**** you up. But that's not the deciding factor for me. I just don't want
to look like a cartoon.

There has been a lot of discussion here over the years about steroids. I'm
not against them like I was when I was completely uninformed. I'm open to
considering them benign. Even so, I still wouldn't take them.

-Larry

> ----
> Pete
>

Pete
October 1st 06, 05:41 PM
"Larry Hodges" > schreef:

>>>> Decide for yourself...

>>> All I see is a Juice Junkie. Sorry...that's what I see...

>> What makes you think that Art is on steroids?

> By looking at him.

What exactly did you see when looking at him?

> You can't tell? Pete, I thought you were more savvy than that.

Dont worry ;-O

>> BTW, "juice junkie" has a negative ring to it. Would it make you feel
>> better if substances that promote protein synthseis were legal?

> I know they're legal in your country. So are many other drugs that really
> **** you up.

Ehhh... In YOUR Country there are MORE people addicted to hard drugs!
You want the Cites?

At least my government does something to help this sick people...

> But that's not the deciding factor for me. I just don't want to look like
> a cartoon.

Okay.

> There has been a lot of discussion here over the years about steroids.
> I'm not against them like I was when I was completely uninformed. I'm
> open to considering them benign. Even so, I still wouldn't take them.

Okay.

----
Pete

Robert Schuh
October 2nd 06, 06:15 AM
Pete wrote:

> Decide for yourself...
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYOJ5wmoSuU&feature=RecentlyWatched&page=1&t=t&f=b
>
> ----
> Pete

The amazing thing is that as big as he is, he is not very strong at all. Even if he
did full range, those weights were not impressive for a guy as big as he is. I don't
get why guys like that with such terribly ugly bodies continue to compete? This guy
will NEVER place in the money in an IFBB show. I wonder where a guy like this get the
money for all the drugs too? He certainly is nto getting the cash from contest wins!
:-)


--
Robert Schuh
"Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche

http://www.hardbopdrums.com/

Robert Schuh
October 2nd 06, 06:17 AM
Larry Hodges wrote:

> "Pete" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Decide for yourself...
> >
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYOJ5wmoSuU&feature=RecentlyWatched&page=1&t=t&f=b
> >
> > ----
> > Pete
>
> All I see is a Juice Junkie. Sorry...that's what I see...
>
> -Larry

Larry,
There is no such thing as a "juice junky." BTW, why do you care what other people do
with their bodies? How does his use of steroids effect you? BTW, if you drink alcohol
or have smoked, you more than likely have done more damage to your body that he has.


--
Robert Schuh
"Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche

http://www.hardbopdrums.com/

Pete
October 3rd 06, 11:56 AM
"Pete" > schreef:

> Ehhh... In YOUR Country there are MORE people addicted to hard drugs!
> You want the Cites?

I am gonna give them anyway.

Read AND learn, Larry!

First the stats;

http://www.cedro-uva.org/stats/national.nlusa.html

And a little more here;

http://www.cedro-uva.org/stats/index.html

OUR policy regarding hard drugs is THE best in the World.

No discussion.

Making a substance ILLIGAL will NOT make them safer, will NOT prevent people
from using them, and WILL increase the price and makes it more risky.

There are only a handfull of people on steroids in my gym, Larry.

Despite the fact that i can contact a handfull of people within a few phone
calls.

OUR policy, with the emphasis on education and NOT prohibition, WORKS!

Your policy doesnt.
It sucks bigtime...

----
Pete

P.S. in case your browser doesnt work;

2001 Ever used Used past year Used past month
USA Netherlands USA Netherlands USA Netherlands
alcohol 81.7 91.6 63.7 83.8 48.3 75.1
tobacco 71.4* 66.4 34.8* 34.6 29.5* 30.2
cannabis 36.9 17.0 9.3 5.0 5.4 3.0
cocaine 12.3 2.9 1.9 0.9 0.7 0.4
inhalants 8.1 0.8 0.9 0.2 0.2 0.1
heroin 1.4 0.4 0.2 0.1 0.1 0.1

Bully
October 3rd 06, 12:29 PM
Pete wrote:
> "Pete" > schreef:
>
>> Ehhh... In YOUR Country there are MORE people addicted to hard drugs!
>> You want the Cites?
>
> I am gonna give them anyway.
>
> Read AND learn, Larry!
>
> First the stats;
>
> http://www.cedro-uva.org/stats/national.nlusa.html
>
> And a little more here;
>
> http://www.cedro-uva.org/stats/index.html
>
> OUR policy regarding hard drugs is THE best in the World.
>
> No discussion.
>
> Making a substance ILLIGAL will NOT make them safer, will NOT prevent
> people from using them, and WILL increase the price and makes it more
> risky.

Sounds like the argument for guns in the USA. I bet that one kicks off again
after yesterdays' events !!!

>
> There are only a handfull of people on steroids in my gym, Larry.
>
> Despite the fact that i can contact a handfull of people within a few
> phone calls.
>
> OUR policy, with the emphasis on education and NOT prohibition, WORKS!
>
> Your policy doesnt.
> It sucks bigtime...
>
> ----
> Pete
>
> P.S. in case your browser doesnt work;
>
> 2001 Ever used Used past year Used past month
> USA Netherlands USA Netherlands USA Netherlands
> alcohol 81.7 91.6 63.7 83.8 48.3 75.1
> tobacco 71.4* 66.4 34.8* 34.6 29.5* 30.2
> cannabis 36.9 17.0 9.3 5.0 5.4 3.0
> cocaine 12.3 2.9 1.9 0.9 0.7 0.4
> inhalants 8.1 0.8 0.9 0.2 0.2 0.1
> heroin 1.4 0.4 0.2 0.1 0.1 0.1



--
Bully
Protein bars: http://www.proteinbars.co.uk

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Pete
October 3rd 06, 12:45 PM
"Bully" > schreef:

>> Making a substance ILLIGAL will NOT make them safer, will NOT prevent
>> people from using them, and WILL increase the price and makes it more
>> risky.

> Sounds like the argument for guns in the USA. I bet that one kicks off
> again after yesterdays' events !!!

To be honest, OUR laws are retarded when it comes to firearms.

Sure, you can go to a club, get your membership, and adter 1 year, and at
least 12 visits, your license.
But you HAVE to keep your gun, NOT loaded, at one secure place, and the
bullets at an other.

Which of course, i do.

IF you decide to use it, a,t lets say, a burglar, they will sent you to
jail.

Which of course, i wont.

But you cant compare guns to "substances."
You take the substances *yourself*, where the bullets are meant for somebody
else...

Still, the laws in the US, regarding firearms, are lot better then mine. Or
yours, for that matter...

----
Pete

Charles
October 3rd 06, 02:00 PM
On Tue, 3 Oct 2006 12:29:06 +0100, "Bully" >
wrote:

>Pete wrote:
>> "Pete" > schreef:
>>
>>> Ehhh... In YOUR Country there are MORE people addicted to hard drugs!
>>> You want the Cites?
>>
>> I am gonna give them anyway.
>>
>> Read AND learn, Larry!
>>
>> First the stats;
>>
>> http://www.cedro-uva.org/stats/national.nlusa.html
>>
>> And a little more here;
>>
>> http://www.cedro-uva.org/stats/index.html
>>
>> OUR policy regarding hard drugs is THE best in the World.
>>
>> No discussion.
>>
>> Making a substance ILLIGAL will NOT make them safer, will NOT prevent
>> people from using them, and WILL increase the price and makes it more
>> risky.
>
>Sounds like the argument for guns in the USA. I bet that one kicks off again
>after yesterdays' events !!!
>

Cue stage; black your face Little Willy Brinks - you're on next! ;o)

OmManiPadmeOmelet
October 3rd 06, 04:44 PM
In article >,
"Bully" > wrote:

> Sounds like the argument for guns in the USA. I bet that one kicks off again
> after yesterdays' events !!!

If the teachers were allowed to carry concealed guns, that a-hole would
have been dead before he could have murdered innocent, helpless little
girls.

Taking guns away from law abiding citizens does NOT prevent criminals
and psychos from having them.

It just makes them more powerful and "us" more helpless.

But, this argument has been stated ad-nauseum, so I'll shut up now...
--
Peace, Om

Remove extra . to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

Pete
October 3rd 06, 04:51 PM
"OmManiPadmeOmelet" > schreef:

> Taking guns away from law abiding citizens does NOT prevent criminals
> and psychos from having them.

> It just makes them more powerful and "us" more helpless.

> But, this argument has been stated ad-nauseum, so I'll shut up now...

I can understand that...

But at least your Goverment wont sent you to jail when you use a gun for
self defense!

----
Pete

Will Brink
October 3rd 06, 05:43 PM
In article >, "Pete"
> wrote:


>
> Your policy doesnt.
> It sucks bigtime...

That is a fact. The war on drugs is a total failure and every stat we have
proves it.

OmManiPadmeOmelet
October 3rd 06, 06:15 PM
In article >,
"Pete" > wrote:

> "OmManiPadmeOmelet" > schreef:
>
> > Taking guns away from law abiding citizens does NOT prevent criminals
> > and psychos from having them.
>
> > It just makes them more powerful and "us" more helpless.
>
> > But, this argument has been stated ad-nauseum, so I'll shut up now...
>
> I can understand that...
>
> But at least your Goverment wont sent you to jail when you use a gun for
> self defense!
>
> ----
> Pete

Depends on which state you live in. ;-)
--
Peace, Om

Remove extra . to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

OmManiPadmeOmelet
October 3rd 06, 06:15 PM
In article >,
(Will Brink) wrote:

> In article >, "Pete"
> > wrote:
>
>
> >
> > Your policy doesnt.
> > It sucks bigtime...
>
> That is a fact. The war on drugs is a total failure and every stat we have
> proves it.

Yeah...

All it has done is create powerful (and dangerous) cartels.
--
Peace, Om

Remove extra . to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

Curt James
October 4th 06, 04:22 AM
Pete wrote:
[...]

> OUR policy regarding hard drugs is THE best in the World.
>
> No discussion.
>
> Making a substance ILLIGAL will NOT make them safer, will NOT prevent people
> from using them, and WILL increase the price and makes it more risky.

Agreed 100 percent on all of that, Pete.

> There are only a handfull of people on steroids in my gym, Larry.
>
> Despite the fact that i can contact a handfull of people within a few phone
> calls.
>
> OUR policy, with the emphasis on education and NOT prohibition, WORKS!
>
> Your policy doesnt.
> It sucks bigtime...

Sadly and incredibly true.

And while this isn't AP or Reuters, I found the following lines of text
from an essay by a woman named Shannon Floyd very interesting:

"The federal government now spends $20 billion per year on the Failed
Drug War. If you count state, local and indirect costs, that number
shoots up to about $50 billion per year, not counting the billions that
are starting to go to support a drug war in Colombia and elsewhere in
South America. This is money that is lost forever and can never be used
to care for our elderly, educate our kids, build our roads, or revamp
our health care system.

Clearly, Substance Prohibition, i.e. making certain substances illegal,
is not benefiting those it claims to benefit. Professor Noam Chomsky
says that if something is not achieving its stated goal, and yet it
continues, it must be achieving an unstated goal. So I ask again: who
benefits from making certain drugs/substances illegal?
1) The prison industry
2) Law enforcement agencies
3) The military complex
4) The pharmaceutical industry
5) Alcohol & tobacco industries
6) Drug testing & enforced treatment industries
7) Banks (through money laundering)
8) Agricultural chemical companies (eradication efforts)
9) Oil, gas & timber industries (due to hemp prohibition)
10) All corporations who use prison labor and the stock market (which
contains vast amounts of fast-moving, untracked cash).

For the above groups, the primary result of the drug war is profit. For
you and me, the primary result of the drug war is the threat of
incarceration and loss of social services. For the world in general,
the primary result of the drug war-as with any war-is destruction.
That is what wars do: destroy the "enemy" and whatever else gets in
the way.

That "whatever else" is called collateral damage in military
terminology. And let us be very clear that, although only a
metaphorical war when declared in 1974 by President Nixon, this war has
become very real. The drug war destroys families, communities,
economies, social infrastructure, and the environment." Read the entire
essay: http://www.alternativesmagazine.com/19/floyd.html

--
Curt

Robert Schuh
October 6th 06, 01:58 AM
Pete wrote:

> "Pete" > schreef:
>
> > Ehhh... In YOUR Country there are MORE people addicted to hard drugs!
> > You want the Cites?
>
> I am gonna give them anyway.
>
> Read AND learn, Larry!
>
> First the stats;
>
> http://www.cedro-uva.org/stats/national.nlusa.html
>
> And a little more here;
>
> http://www.cedro-uva.org/stats/index.html
>
> OUR policy regarding hard drugs is THE best in the World.
>
> No discussion.
>
> Making a substance ILLIGAL will NOT make them safer, will NOT prevent people
> from using them, and WILL increase the price and makes it more risky.
>
> There are only a handfull of people on steroids in my gym, Larry.
>
> Despite the fact that i can contact a handfull of people within a few phone
> calls.
>
> OUR policy, with the emphasis on education and NOT prohibition, WORKS!
>
> Your policy doesnt.
> It sucks bigtime...
>
> ----
> Pete
>
> P.S. in case your browser doesnt work;
>
> 2001 Ever used Used past year Used past month
> USA Netherlands USA Netherlands USA Netherlands
> alcohol 81.7 91.6 63.7 83.8 48.3 75.1
> tobacco 71.4* 66.4 34.8* 34.6 29.5* 30.2
> cannabis 36.9 17.0 9.3 5.0 5.4 3.0
> cocaine 12.3 2.9 1.9 0.9 0.7 0.4
> inhalants 8.1 0.8 0.9 0.2 0.2 0.1
> heroin 1.4 0.4 0.2 0.1 0.1 0.1

Pete,
The people in the US are too stupid and too hypocritical to ever legalize all
drugs. The government has ZERO right telling adults what they can and can not
put into their bodies. It is perfectly fine to buy alcohol and tobacco here, but
if you want marijuana or steroids, you are a ****ing felon. We had Prohibition
here and it failed miserably, but we can't learn from our mistakes.


--
Robert Schuh
"Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche

http://www.hardbopdrums.com/

Robert Schuh
October 6th 06, 02:02 AM
Pete wrote:

> "Bully" > schreef:
>
> >> Making a substance ILLIGAL will NOT make them safer, will NOT prevent
> >> people from using them, and WILL increase the price and makes it more
> >> risky.
>
> > Sounds like the argument for guns in the USA. I bet that one kicks off
> > again after yesterdays' events !!!
>
> To be honest, OUR laws are retarded when it comes to firearms.
>
> Sure, you can go to a club, get your membership, and adter 1 year, and at
> least 12 visits, your license.
> But you HAVE to keep your gun, NOT loaded, at one secure place, and the
> bullets at an other.
>
> Which of course, i do.
>
> IF you decide to use it, a,t lets say, a burglar, they will sent you to
> jail.
>
> Which of course, i wont.
>
> But you cant compare guns to "substances."
> You take the substances *yourself*, where the bullets are meant for somebody
> else...
>
> Still, the laws in the US, regarding firearms, are lot better then mine. Or
> yours, for that matter...
>
> ----
> Pete

This is where the left and the right in the US are so ****ed. The left would
want to liberalize drug laws, but at the same time make tougher gun laws. The
right would want looser gun laws and make more substances illegal. A TRUE
conservative is someone who wants the government the **** out of everyone's
business, so all of this should be legal. The only "party" in the US that makes
any sense are the Libertarians, but they never get elected.


--
Robert Schuh
"Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche

http://www.hardbopdrums.com/

Robert Schuh
October 6th 06, 02:04 AM
OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:

> In article >,
> "Bully" > wrote:
>
> > Sounds like the argument for guns in the USA. I bet that one kicks off again
> > after yesterdays' events !!!
>
> If the teachers were allowed to carry concealed guns, that a-hole would
> have been dead before he could have murdered innocent, helpless little
> girls.
>
> Taking guns away from law abiding citizens does NOT prevent criminals
> and psychos from having them.
>
> It just makes them more powerful and "us" more helpless.
>
> But, this argument has been stated ad-nauseum, so I'll shut up now...
> --
> Peace, Om
>
> Remove extra . to validate e-mails.
>
> "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

If the stupid ****ing Amish people had telephones, the SWAT team could have been
there in time to kill that ****. This is just another case why religion will ALWAYS
be THE biggest problem in the world.


--
Robert Schuh
"Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche

http://www.hardbopdrums.com/

Curt James
October 6th 06, 04:07 AM
Robert Schuh wrote:
[...]

> If the stupid ****ing Amish people

Touching. Considerate. Telling, oh, yes.

> had telephones, the SWAT team could have been
> there in time to kill that ****.

Dja think? They had phones in Columbine. They had phones in Bailey. Fat
lot of good they did. And they certainly didn't help Wisconsin
Principal John Klang who was killed on Sept. 29. So why would you think
that the events in Nickel Mines, PA would be any different if "the
stupid ****ing Amish people had telephones"?

Moron? An insensitive jerk at the very least.

> This is just another case why religion will ALWAYS
> be THE biggest problem in the world.

No. Intolerance will ALWAYS be THE biggest problem in the world.

--
Curt

fish.
October 6th 06, 04:18 AM
In article >,
says...
> OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
>
> > In article >,
> > "Bully" > wrote:
> >
> > > Sounds like the argument for guns in the USA. I bet that one kicks off again
> > > after yesterdays' events !!!
> >
> > If the teachers were allowed to carry concealed guns, that a-hole would
> > have been dead before he could have murdered innocent, helpless little
> > girls.
> >
> > Taking guns away from law abiding citizens does NOT prevent criminals
> > and psychos from having them.
> >
> > It just makes them more powerful and "us" more helpless.
> >
> > But, this argument has been stated ad-nauseum, so I'll shut up now...
> > --
> > Peace, Om
> >
> > Remove extra . to validate e-mails.
> >
> > "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson
>
> If the stupid ****ing Amish people had telephones, the SWAT team could have been
> there in time to kill that ****. This is just another case why religion will ALWAYS
> be THE biggest problem in the world.
>
>
> --
> Robert Schuh
> "Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
> intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
> the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
> the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
> - Nietzsche
>
> http://www.hardbopdrums.com/
>
>
>


yeah, cause only the religious nuts kill, rape, and torture people. Oh
wait the person actually RESPONSIBLE for the killing in this case wasn't
Amish, yet he seems to have dodged your worthless dick waving.

Can you shut the **** up now about everything except that which you know
something about, like determining needle guages.

--
"What's that got to do with my KNOB?"

Bedknobs and Broomsticks

Curt James
October 6th 06, 04:33 AM
fish. wrote:
[...]

> says...
[...]

> > If the stupid ****ing Amish people had telephones,
> > the SWAT team could have been there in time to
> > kill that ****. This is just another case why religion
> > will ALWAYS be THE biggest problem in the world.
>
> yeah, cause only the religious nuts kill, rape, and torture people. Oh
> wait the person actually RESPONSIBLE for the killing in this case wasn't
> Amish, yet he seems to have dodged your worthless dick waving.
>
> Can you shut the **** up now about everything except that which you know
> something about, like determining needle guages.

Gauges.

(ducks, runs, hollers compliment over shoulder...)

But, other than that, an absolutely PERFECT post.

--
Curt

OmManiPadmeOmelet
October 6th 06, 03:36 PM
In article >,
Robert Schuh > wrote:

> This is where the left and the right in the US are so ****ed. The left would
> want to liberalize drug laws, but at the same time make tougher gun laws. The
> right would want looser gun laws and make more substances illegal. A TRUE
> conservative is someone who wants the government the **** out of everyone's
> business, so all of this should be legal. The only "party" in the US that
> makes
> any sense are the Libertarians, but they never get elected.
>
>
> --
> Robert Schuh

No argument there... ;-)
Watch that tho'. Some Libertarians are smart enough to run as a
Republican. Ron Paul and Grant Rostig are two that I know of for sure.
--
Peace, Om

Remove extra . to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

OmManiPadmeOmelet
October 6th 06, 03:38 PM
In article om>,
"Curt James" > wrote:

> Robert Schuh wrote:
> [...]
>
> > If the stupid ****ing Amish people
>
> Touching. Considerate. Telling, oh, yes.
>
> > had telephones, the SWAT team could have been
> > there in time to kill that ****.
>
> Dja think? They had phones in Columbine. They had phones in Bailey. Fat
> lot of good they did. And they certainly didn't help Wisconsin
> Principal John Klang who was killed on Sept. 29. So why would you think
> that the events in Nickel Mines, PA would be any different if "the
> stupid ****ing Amish people had telephones"?
>
> Moron? An insensitive jerk at the very least.
>
> > This is just another case why religion will ALWAYS
> > be THE biggest problem in the world.
>
> No. Intolerance will ALWAYS be THE biggest problem in the world.

Agreed...
No phone call would have been fast enough to have prevented those deaths.

An armed teacher OTOH.......
--
Peace, Om

Remove extra . to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

Curt James
October 6th 06, 08:31 PM
OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
> "Curt James" wrote:
[...]

> > <snip>They had phones in Columbine. They had phones in Bailey.
> > Fat lot of good they did. And they certainly didn't help Wisconsin
> > Principal John Klang who was killed on Sept. 29. So why would you
> > think that the events in Nickel Mines, PA would be any different if
> > "<snip> Amish people had telephones"?
[...]

> > <snip>Intolerance will ALWAYS be THE biggest problem in the world.
>
> Agreed...
> No phone call would have been fast enough to have prevented those deaths.
>
> An armed teacher OTOH.......

Teachers have enough on their plates that they shouldn't have to act as
security. And I don't know if I'd want my children to attend a school
that allowed teachers to carry weapons. I honestly don't know if it
would help or make matters worse. I get high fives and hugs, but say I
have a holster and things turn into a wrestling match. There have been
occasions when school personnel are required to restrain students. What
if a student were to gain possession of a teacher's firearm? What if
that student fired that teacher's gun? Can you imagine the
repercussions if that hypothetical student shot a classmate with their
teacher's weapon?

This is not a situation or a possibility that I can see myself
endorsing.

Plus, no offense to teachers but I really don't see some of the people
I've worked with over the years going for it either. By choice or by
capability. No.

Myself, I earned my marksman ribbon as an E-1 in the Navy. I've shot a
45, an M14, a 12 gauge shotgun, as well as being trained to take apart
and put back together, set the timing, and fire a 50 caliber machine
gun. Guns are hella fun, but do I want to have the responsibility of
carrying a sidearm while showing my students how to draw a rose or
SpongeBob? No.

Do schools need security? Yes. Do schools need a response force? Yes.
Should educators offer those services? I don't believe so.

--
Curt

OmManiPadmeOmelet
October 6th 06, 09:02 PM
In article om>,
"Curt James" > wrote:

> Do schools need security? Yes. Do schools need a response force? Yes.
> Should educators offer those services? I don't believe so.
>
> --
> Curt

Sorry sir, but I respectfully disagree...

Concealed carry is just that.

Concealed.

No student would be able (or know) to grab _my_ gun if I was wearing one
as a teacher.

If done properly, I don't think it'd present any kind of danger at all.
No more so than when I carry concealed at Wal-mart or the grocery store.

Which I now do all the time as a matter of comfortable habit.

They are not going to know to grab it if they don't know it's
there.......

Concealed carry for teachers seems practical to me, if said teacher is
willing. It should not be "required".

Not everyone is comfortable nor proficient with a handgun.
--
Peace, Om

Remove extra . to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

Will Brink
October 6th 06, 10:19 PM
In article >,
OmManiPadmeOmelet > wrote:

> In article om>,
> "Curt James" > wrote:
>
> > Do schools need security? Yes. Do schools need a response force? Yes.
> > Should educators offer those services? I don't believe so.
> >
> > --
> > Curt
>
> Sorry sir, but I respectfully disagree...
>
> Concealed carry is just that.
>
> Concealed.
>
> No student would be able (or know) to grab _my_ gun if I was wearing one
> as a teacher.
>
> If done properly, I don't think it'd present any kind of danger at all.
> No more so than when I carry concealed at Wal-mart or the grocery store.
>
> Which I now do all the time as a matter of comfortable habit.
>
> They are not going to know to grab it if they don't know it's
> there.......
>
> Concealed carry for teachers seems practical to me, if said teacher is
> willing. It should not be "required".
>
> Not everyone is comfortable nor proficient with a handgun.

From a list I am on out of UCLA, a Professor Joseph Olson, from
Hamline University School of Law, said:

"Since I began to track these in 1989, with one exception, all K-12 school
shootings have had the following in common:

1). Guns were specifically not allowed on the premises by official policy
or by law.
2). Those inside were unarmed and totally helpless.
3). The police were called to each one of these events.
4). All injuries (and deaths) occurred before the police took any action."

Charles
October 6th 06, 11:47 PM
On Fri, 06 Oct 2006 17:19:06 -0400, (Will Brink)
wrote:

[...]

>
>"Since I began to track these in 1989, with one exception, all K-12 school
>shootings have had the following in common:
>

>4). All injuries (and deaths) occurred before the police took any action."

That was certainly not the case in the recent Amish school shootings,
which were initiated by precipitate police actions!

Have a great weekend - I always do! ;o)

TFIF!

Robert Schuh
October 7th 06, 07:58 AM
"fish." wrote:

> In article >,
> says...
> > OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
> >
> > > In article >,
> > > "Bully" > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Sounds like the argument for guns in the USA. I bet that one kicks off again
> > > > after yesterdays' events !!!
> > >
> > > If the teachers were allowed to carry concealed guns, that a-hole would
> > > have been dead before he could have murdered innocent, helpless little
> > > girls.
> > >
> > > Taking guns away from law abiding citizens does NOT prevent criminals
> > > and psychos from having them.
> > >
> > > It just makes them more powerful and "us" more helpless.
> > >
> > > But, this argument has been stated ad-nauseum, so I'll shut up now...
> > > --
> > > Peace, Om
> > >
> > > Remove extra . to validate e-mails.
> > >
> > > "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson
> >
> > If the stupid ****ing Amish people had telephones, the SWAT team could have been
> > there in time to kill that ****. This is just another case why religion will ALWAYS
> > be THE biggest problem in the world.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Robert Schuh
> > "Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
> > intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
> > the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
> > the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
> > - Nietzsche
> >
> > http://www.hardbopdrums.com/
> >
> >
> >
>
> yeah, cause only the religious nuts kill, rape, and torture people. Oh
> wait the person actually RESPONSIBLE for the killing in this case wasn't
> Amish, yet he seems to have dodged your worthless dick waving.
>
> Can you shut the **** up now about everything except that which you know
> something about, like determining needle guages.
>
> --
> "What's that got to do with my KNOB?"
>
> Bedknobs and Broomsticks

LOL! Don't you just LOVE these anonymous ****ing morons who don't know the first thing
about what they are talking about? Did you READ what I wrote you ****ing moron? I said
NOTHING about the asshole who killed the people. I was stating that if these religious
whack jobs did not live in the 18th century, they would have phones and could have had
the police there in time. What is really important is the fact that you don't even have
the integrity to put your name to your inane drivel that you post. I suggest you butch up
a bit and learn about what you are talking about before you talk ****. Pussy.


--
Robert Schuh
"Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche

http://www.hardbopdrums.com/

Robert Schuh
October 7th 06, 08:01 AM
OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:

> In article om>,
> "Curt James" > wrote:
>
> > Robert Schuh wrote:
> > [...]
> >
> > > If the stupid ****ing Amish people
> >
> > Touching. Considerate. Telling, oh, yes.
> >
> > > had telephones, the SWAT team could have been
> > > there in time to kill that ****.
> >
> > Dja think? They had phones in Columbine. They had phones in Bailey. Fat
> > lot of good they did. And they certainly didn't help Wisconsin
> > Principal John Klang who was killed on Sept. 29. So why would you think
> > that the events in Nickel Mines, PA would be any different if "the
> > stupid ****ing Amish people had telephones"?
> >
> > Moron? An insensitive jerk at the very least.
> >
> > > This is just another case why religion will ALWAYS
> > > be THE biggest problem in the world.
> >
> > No. Intolerance will ALWAYS be THE biggest problem in the world.
>
> Agreed...
> No phone call would have been fast enough to have prevented those deaths.
>
> An armed teacher OTOH.......
> --
> Peace, Om
>
> Remove extra . to validate e-mails.
>
> "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

That is not true. It took the cops 45 minutes to get there because the teacher had
to run some ludicrous distance to call the cops. The guy killed the girls 5 minutes
before they arrived. I would not even read what Curt has to say as he seems to just
like to write the exact opposite of what I do. Isn't it amazing how I seem to
attract freaks and stalkers like Curt? :-)


--
Robert Schuh
"Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche

http://www.hardbopdrums.com/

Curt James
October 8th 06, 06:55 AM
Robert Schuh wrote:
[...]

> LOL! Don't you just LOVE these anonymous ****ing
> morons who don't know the first thing about what they
> are talking about?

So you're stating here that Robert Schuh is actually NOT your real
name?

> Did you READ what I wrote you ****ing moron? I said
> NOTHING about the asshole who killed the people.

Oh, they're "the people" now? Because earlier you called them "the
stupid ****ing Amish," right?

> I was stating that if these religious whack jobs did not live
> in the 18th century, they would have phones and could have
> had the police there in time.

Right. If only there'd been a telephone! If it escaped you, the killer
released 15 boys and four adults and, yeah, at least one teacher went
directly to a telephone and called the police. The police arrived and
surrounded the schoolhouse. The police tried to begin negotiations, but
the killer called 911 and told them to back off. A moment later shots
were fired and the police *then* entered the building, but it was
obviously too late.

So, genius, since the police *were* there in time... what else ya got?
Because "these religious whack jobs" living in the 18th century as you
so kindly put it, well, it seems as if their lack of phones didn't
really have anything to do with the end result.

> What is really important is the fact that you

Is the fact that *you* don't know what *you*'re talking about and yet
you continue to cast stones freely. Odd.

> don't even have the integrity to put your name to your <snip> post.

You'd just killfile him if he did. A guess, of course, but there is a
precedent. ;o)

> I suggest you butch up a bit and learn about what you are talking
> about before you talk ****. Pussy.

Oh, 'bert, 'bert, 'bert! Talking to yourself *again!!!???* Still, it's
what I'd call exceptional advice. If only you'd follow it.

--
Curt

Henry
October 9th 06, 01:28 PM
The Bush regime made sure that Afghanistan returned to its
former status as the world's leading producer of heroin after
its invasion. The Taliban had pretty much erradicated poppy
production by 2001, but by the end of 2002, it was back at
record levels. Scum bags thrive on illicit drug money....


http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=CHO20060921&articleId=3294



Who benefits from the Afghan Opium Trade?


by Michel Chossudovsky

September 21, 2006
GlobalResearch.ca


The United Nations has announced that opium poppy cultivation in
Afghanistan has soared and is expected to increase by 59% in 2006. The
production of opium is estimated to have increased by 49% in relation
to 2005.

The Western media in chorus blame the Taliban and the warlords. The
Bush administration is said to be committed to curbing the Afghan drug
trade: "The US is the main backer of a huge drive to rid Afghanistan
of opium... "

Yet in a bitter irony, US military presence has served to restore
rather than eradicate the drug trade.

What the reports fail to acknowledge is that the Taliban government
was instrumental in implementing a successful drug eradication
program, with the support and collaboration of the UN.

Implemented in 2000-2001, the Taliban's drug eradication program led
to a 94 percent decline in opium cultivation. In 2001, according to UN
figures, opium production had fallen to 185 tons. Immediately
following the October 2001 US led invasion, production increased
dramatically, regaining its historical levels.

The Vienna based UN Office on Drugs and Crime estimates that the 2006
harvest will be of the order of 6,100 tonnes, 33 times its production
levels in 2001 under the Taliban government (3200 % increase in 5
years).

Cultivation in 2006 reached a record 165,000 hectares compared with
104,000 in 2005 and 7,606 in 2001 under the Taliban (See table below).

Multibillion dollar trade

According to the UN, Afghanistan supplies in 2006 some 92 percent of
the world's supply of opium, which is used to make heroin.

The UN estimates that for 2006, the contribution of the drug trade to
the Afghan economy is of the order of 2.7 billion. What it fails to
mention is the fact that more than 95 percent of the revenues
generated by this lucrative contraband accrues to business syndicates,
organized crime and banking and financial institutions. A very small
percentage accrues to farmers and traders in the producing country.

(See also UNODC, The Opium Economy in Afghanistan,
http://www.unodc.org/pdf/publications/afg_opium_economy_www.pdf ,
Vienna, 2003, p. 7-8)

"Afghan heroin sells on the international narcotics market for 100
times the price farmers get for their opium right out of the
field".(US State Department quoted by the Voice of America (VOA), 27
February 2004).

Based on wholesale and retail prices in Western markets, the earnings
generated by the Afghan drug trade are colossal. In July 2006, street
prices in Britain for heroin were of the order of Pound Sterling 54,
or $102 a gram.

Narcotics On the Streets of Western Europe

One kilo of opium produces approximately 100 grams of (pure) heroin.
6100 tons of opium allows the production of 1220 tons of heroin with a
50 percent purity ratio.

The average purity of retailed heroin can vary. It is on average 36%.
In Britain, the purity is rarely in excess of 50 percent, while in the
US it can be of the order of 50-60 percent.

Based on the structure of British retail prices for heroin, the total
proceeds of the Afghan heroin trade would be of the order of 124.4
billion dollars, assuming a 50 percent purity ratio. Assuming an
average purity ratio of 36 percent and the average British price, the
cash value of Afghan heroin sales would be of the order of 194.4
billion dollars.

While these figures do not constitute precise estimates, they
nonetheless convey the sheer magnitude of this multibillion dollar
narcotics trade out of Afghanistan. Based on the first figure which
provides a conservative estimate, the cash value of these sales, once
they reach Western retail markets are in excess of 120 billion dollars
a year.

(See also our detailed estimates for 2003 in The Spoils of War:
Afghanistan's Multibillion Dollar Heroin Trade, by Michel
Chossudovsky, The UNODC estimates the average retail price of heroin
for 2004 to be of the order of $157 per gram, based on the average
purity ratio).

Narcotics: Second to Oil and the Arms Trade

The foregoing estimates are consistent with the UN's assessment
concerning the size and magnitude of the global drug trade.

The Afghan trade in opiates (92 percent of total World production of
opiates) constitutes a large share of the worldwide annual turnover of
narcotics, which was estimated by the United Nations to be of the
order of $400-500 billion.

(Douglas Keh, Drug Money in a Changing World, Technical document No.
4, 1998, Vienna UNDCP, p. 4. See also United Nations Drug Control
Program, Report of the International Narcotics Control Board for 1999,
E/INCB/1999/1 United Nations, Vienna 1999, p. 49-51, and Richard
Lapper, UN Fears Growth of Heroin Trade, Financial Times, 24 February
2000).

Based on 2003 figures, drug trafficking constitutes "the third
biggest global commodity in cash terms after oil and the arms trade."
(The Independent, 29 February 2004).

Afghanistan and Colombia are the largest drug producing economies in
the world, which feed a flourishing criminal economy. These countries
are heavily militarized. The drug trade is protected. Amply documented
the CIA has played a central role in the development of both the Latin
American and Asian drug triangles.

The IMF estimated global money laundering to be between 590 billion
and 1.5 trillion dollars a year, representing 2-5 percent of global
GDP. (Asian Banker, 15 August 2003). A large share of global money
laundering as estimated by the IMF is linked to the trade in narcotics.

Legal Business and Illicit Trade are Intertwined

There are powerful business and financial interests behind narcotics.
From this standpoint, geopolitical and military control over the drug
routes is as strategic as oil and oil pipelines.

Moreover, the above figures including those on money laundering,
confirm that the bulk of the revenues associated with the global trade
in narcotics are not appropriated by terrorist groups and warlords, as
suggested by the UNODC report. In the case of Afghanistan, the UN
Office on Drugs and Crime estimates that a mere 2.7 billion accrues
as revenue within Afghanistan. According to the US State department
"Afghanistan drug profits support the Taliban and their terrorism
efforts against the United States, its allies and the Afghan
government." (statement, the House Appropriations foreign operations,
export financing and related programs subcommittee. September 12, 2006)

However, what distinguishes narcotics from legal commodity trade is
that narcotics constitutes a major source of wealth formation not only
for organized crime but also for the US intelligence apparatus, which
increasingly constitutes a powerful actor in the spheres of finance
and banking. This relationship has been documented by several studies
including the writings of Alfred McCoy. (Drug Fallout: the CIA's Forty
Year Complicity in the Narcotics Trade. The Progressive, 1 August 1997).

In other words, intelligence agencies, powerful business, drug traders
and organized crime are competing for the strategic control over the
heroin routes. A large share of this multi-billion dollar revenues of
narcotics are deposited in the Western banking system. Most of the
large international banks together with their affiliates in the
offshore banking havens launder large amounts of narco-dollars.

This trade can only prosper if the main actors involved in narcotics
have "political friends in high places." Legal and illegal
undertakings are increasingly intertwined, the dividing line between
"businesspeople" and criminals is blurred. In turn, the relationship
among criminals, politicians and members of the intelligence
establishment has tainted the structures of the state and the role of
its institutions including the Military.



--

http://911research.wtc7.net
http://www.st911.org



Here's what happens to steel framed buildings exposed
to raging infernos for hours on end.

http://davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr69c.html

On 9-11-01, WTC7, a 47 story steel framed building, which
had only small, random fires, dropped in perfect symmetry
at near free fall speed as in a perfectly executed controlled
demolition.

http://911research.wtc7.net/talks/wtc/videos.html
http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html
http://wtc7.net/articles/FEMA/WTC_ch5.htm


"You're doin' a heckuva job, Brownie!" - bu$h, a few days
before his FEMA chief, Micheal Brown was forced to resign
because of his gross incompetence.

"The tools that enable Cuba to save lives and preserve
human dignity during hurricanes are socialist values
and organization." - Dr. W.T. Whitney Jr

Ever wonder who benefits from the 300 MILLION
U.S. taxpayer dollars spent each DAY in Iraq?
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0223-08.htm
http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?list=type&type=21

"They are waging a campaign of murder and destruction. And
there is no limit to the innocent lives they are willing to
take... men with blind hatred and armed with lethal weapons
who are capable of any atrocity... they respect no laws of
warfare or morality."
-bu$h describing his own illegal invasion of Iraq.
http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_mar2003.htm

http://www.commondreams.org/
http://www.truthout.org/
http://www.prohibitioncosts.org/
http://thirdworldtraveler.com/
http://counterpunch.org/
http://responsiblewealth.org/

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things
that matter." -- Martin Luther King Jr.

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is
not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."
-- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

Don't let bu$h do to the United States what his very close
friend and top campaign contributor, Ken Lay, did to Enron...

Henry
October 9th 06, 01:29 PM
Robert Schuh > wrote:

>This is where the left and the right in the US are so ****ed. The left would
>want to liberalize drug laws, but at the same time make tougher gun laws. The
>right would want looser gun laws and make more substances illegal. A TRUE
>conservative is someone who wants the government the **** out of everyone's
>business, so all of this should be legal.

Tough gun laws don't prevent law abiding citizens from
getting guns, but they make it difficult and expensive
for scum bags to get them. NY has very strict gun laws,
yet in spite of being caught growing marijuana and an
arrest for a class B Felony (beaten in court) I was
still able to get a handgun permit.
The drug war is insane, as it's a total ban, not reasonable
regulation. All recreational drugs should be handled like
alcohol, which is probably the most dangerous recreational
drug of all.

> The only "party" in the US that
> makes any sense are the Libertarians, but they never get elected.

Libertairains are radical extremists. They're even against
laws that protect our environment, food quality, worker
safety, etc..





--

http://911research.wtc7.net
http://www.st911.org



Here's what happens to steel framed buildings exposed
to raging infernos for hours on end.

http://davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr69c.html

On 9-11-01, WTC7, a 47 story steel framed building, which
had only small, random fires, dropped in perfect symmetry
at near free fall speed as in a perfectly executed controlled
demolition.

http://911research.wtc7.net/talks/wtc/videos.html
http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html
http://wtc7.net/articles/FEMA/WTC_ch5.htm


"You're doin' a heckuva job, Brownie!" - bu$h, a few days
before his FEMA chief, Micheal Brown was forced to resign
because of his gross incompetence.

"The tools that enable Cuba to save lives and preserve
human dignity during hurricanes are socialist values
and organization." - Dr. W.T. Whitney Jr

Ever wonder who benefits from the 300 MILLION
U.S. taxpayer dollars spent each DAY in Iraq?
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0223-08.htm
http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?list=type&type=21

"They are waging a campaign of murder and destruction. And
there is no limit to the innocent lives they are willing to
take... men with blind hatred and armed with lethal weapons
who are capable of any atrocity... they respect no laws of
warfare or morality."
-bu$h describing his own illegal invasion of Iraq.
http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_mar2003.htm

http://www.commondreams.org/
http://www.truthout.org/
http://www.prohibitioncosts.org/
http://thirdworldtraveler.com/
http://counterpunch.org/
http://responsiblewealth.org/

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things
that matter." -- Martin Luther King Jr.

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is
not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."
-- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

Don't let bu$h do to the United States what his very close
friend and top campaign contributor, Ken Lay, did to Enron...

Henry
October 9th 06, 01:30 PM
OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:

> An armed teacher OTOH.......

....would have given the killer another weapon. He grabs
a kid, uses it as a shield, demands the teacher put down
the gun, and walks over to get it.



--



http://911research.wtc7.net
http://www.st911.org



Here's what happens to steel framed buildings exposed
to raging infernos for hours on end.

http://davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr69c.html

On 9-11-01, WTC7, a 47 story steel framed building, which
had only small, random fires, dropped in perfect symmetry
at near free fall speed as in a perfectly executed controlled
demolition.

http://911research.wtc7.net/talks/wtc/videos.html
http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html
http://wtc7.net/articles/FEMA/WTC_ch5.htm


"You're doin' a heckuva job, Brownie!" - bu$h, a few days
before his FEMA chief, Micheal Brown was forced to resign
because of his gross incompetence.

"The tools that enable Cuba to save lives and preserve
human dignity during hurricanes are socialist values
and organization." - Dr. W.T. Whitney Jr

Ever wonder who benefits from the 300 MILLION
U.S. taxpayer dollars spent each DAY in Iraq?
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0223-08.htm
http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?list=type&type=21

"They are waging a campaign of murder and destruction. And
there is no limit to the innocent lives they are willing to
take... men with blind hatred and armed with lethal weapons
who are capable of any atrocity... they respect no laws of
warfare or morality."
-bu$h describing his own illegal invasion of Iraq.
http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_mar2003.htm

http://www.commondreams.org/
http://www.truthout.org/
http://www.prohibitioncosts.org/
http://thirdworldtraveler.com/
http://counterpunch.org/
http://responsiblewealth.org/

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things
that matter." -- Martin Luther King Jr.

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is
not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."
-- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

Don't let bu$h do to the United States what his very close
friend and top campaign contributor, Ken Lay, did to Enron...

Curt James
October 10th 06, 01:55 AM
Henry wrote:

> The Bush regime made sure that Afghanistan returned to its
> former status as the world's leading producer of heroin after
> its invasion. The Taliban had pretty much erradicated poppy
> production by 2001, but by the end of 2002, it was back at
> record levels. Scum bags thrive on illicit drug money....

-=snip eight million lines of text and five million lines of .sig=-

HEY! YOU TRYING TO CATCH UP TO MY MFW WORD COUNT IN JUST ONE POST???

Seriously, Henry, it appears that the Taliban will have the opportunity
to eradicate (watch your spelling, please ;o)) poppy production all
over again. Was it NPR that offered a tidbit that Afghanistan is
reading to give the UN the big boot and embrace the big T once more.
Prosperity isn't happening under the current situation and, hey, I
guess the following saying applies worldwide: Money talks and bull****
walks.

--
Curt