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May 21st 07, 04:27 PM
Here you go:

1.Set a time limit on all your workouts. End the workout if you run
over.
2.Exercise larger muscle groups before the smaller ones. I.e... Back,
Legs and Chest before shoulders and arms. 3.Change your workout plan
up every twelve to fourteen weeks.
4.Treat your time in the gym as if it is your most important time of
the day.
5.Make the workouts at the beginning of the week harder than those
toward the end of the week.
6.Take at least one day off a week from doing any form of exercising.
7.Change your cardiovascular equipment up each time you exercise.
8.Monitor your heart rate all the time.
9.Go over your workout in your head before you start.
10.Efficiency is more important than length. Have a number of reps in
your head before each time you do a set.

If you want more information, why don't you check out <A HREF="http://
musclebuildingtipsonline.blogspot.com/">Muscle Building Tips Online</A>

Prisoner at War
May 21st 07, 06:59 PM
On May 21, 11:27 am, wrote:
> Here you go:
>
> 1.Set a time limit on all your workouts. End the workout if you run
> over.

I like this sometimes, because nothing gets the blood rushing like a
race! But it might lead to injury if one's overly conscious of the
clock ticking.

> 2.Exercise larger muscle groups before the smaller ones. I.e... Back,
> Legs and Chest before shoulders and arms.

I've not found a difference either way. Sometimes I just have biceps
first thing on my mind. Of course, you're assuming one does a "total
body" workout, which I favor, but, again, I haven't found it more or
less beneficial than a split routine.

>3.Change your workout plan
> up every twelve to fourteen weeks.

This I whole-heartedly agree with. Your body just wants to do
something else after a while.

> 4.Treat your time in the gym as if it is your most important time of
> the day.

Actually, for me it is, and that really goes without saying: those who
are only going through the motions disappear after January!

> 5.Make the workouts at the beginning of the week harder than those
> toward the end of the week.

Hmm, I wonder why you advise this. I like to do it the other way,
mostly due to time: I have all weekend to just bomb my biceps, etc.,
whereas at the beginning of the week I'm on a limited schedule, not to
mention all the other people in the gym!

> 6.Take at least one day off a week from doing any form of exercising.

Yes, I think it comes naturally. I'd even say take a whole week off
every month or month or two!

> 7.Change your cardiovascular equipment up each time you exercise.

Huh? Not sure what the big deal is behind that, unless one naturally
hates cardio.

> 8.Monitor your heart rate all the time.

Why?

> 9.Go over your workout in your head before you start.

Yes, this is very important: visualization. Such that I pose and flex
in-between sets.

> 10.Efficiency is more important than length. Have a number of reps in
> your head before each time you do a set.

Having a good time is most efficient. I find that "numbers" distract
me. When I have a spotter, I just go all out and try to leave the
(silent) counting to him. I also find music distracting for the same
reason, though the gym always has some popular crap on and so I am
forced to pipe my own into my ears.

> If you want more information, why don't you check out <A HREF="http://
> musclebuildingtipsonline.blogspot.com/">Muscle Building Tips Online</A>

Tom Anderson
May 21st 07, 07:18 PM
On Mon, 21 May 2007, Prisoner at War wrote:

> On May 21, 11:27 am, wrote:
>
>> 1.Set a time limit on all your workouts. End the workout if you run
>> over.
>
> I like this sometimes, because nothing gets the blood rushing like a
> race! But it might lead to injury if one's overly conscious of the
> clock ticking.

I find i have to have a hard reason to leave, rather than an arbitrary
deadline - getting to the pub for the quiz at eight, or finishing before
the gym closes at half past ten are my usual ones!

>> 2.Exercise larger muscle groups before the smaller ones. I.e... Back,
>> Legs and Chest before shoulders and arms.
>
> I've not found a difference either way.

It definitely makes a difference, but it's not this simple - the muscles
you work first get worked hardest, so for general strength, yes, work the
big ones first, but if you have a particular desire for bulging arms, do
your curls and pushdowns first.

>> 3.Change your workout plan up every twelve to fourteen weeks.
>
> This I whole-heartedly agree with. Your body just wants to do something
> else after a while.

I'm not aware of any evidence for this. If your plan is suboptimal, or if
changing it will make you keener, change it, but don't change for the sake
of change.

>> 4.Treat your time in the gym as if it is your most important time of
>> the day.
>
> Actually, for me it is, and that really goes without saying: those who
> are only going through the motions disappear after January!

I think i'd be quite unhappy if my workout was the most important part of
my day.

Scratch that - i *have* been pretty unhappy at times when my workout was
the most important part of my day! Still, beat not having the workout ...

>> 5.Make the workouts at the beginning of the week harder than those
>> toward the end of the week.
>
> Hmm, I wonder why you advise this.

He needed to pad his meagre ideas out to ten points?

>> 7.Change your cardiovascular equipment up each time you exercise.
>
> Huh? Not sure what the big deal is behind that, unless one naturally
> hates cardio.

Did he mean 'charge', perhaps, in a metaphorical sense? As in "warm up
each time you exercise"?

>> 8.Monitor your heart rate all the time.
>
> Why?

See under point 5.

>> 9.Go over your workout in your head before you start.
>
> Yes, this is very important: visualization. Such that I pose and flex
> in-between sets.

I don't think i could get away with this in my gym (with my physique!),
but i keep a log, and go over that at the head of the workout - review
what i've done, decide what i'm going to try for this time.

>> 10.Efficiency is more important than length.

I don't know what that means.

>> Have a number of reps in your head before each time you do a set.

Agreed.

> Having a good time is most efficient. I find that "numbers" distract
> me.

YMMV, i guess. I find counting up to my target is a good motivator - "half
way!", "only two more!", "only one more!".

>> If you want more information, why don't you check out <A HREF="http://
>> musclebuildingtipsonline.blogspot.com/">Muscle Building Tips Online</A>

Because you're already reading mfw, FINEST INFORMATION SOURCE IN THE
GALAXY.

tom

--
GOLDIE LOOKIN' CHAIN [...] will ultimately make all other forms of music
both redundant and unnecessary -- NTK

Jason Earl
May 21st 07, 08:19 PM
writes:

> Here you go:
>
> 1. Set a time limit on all your workouts. End the workout if you run
> over.

Generally speaking I like these types of workouts as they are easy to
plan. However, sometimes I like to do just the opposite. Instead of
planning how long the workout should take I take a set workout and see
how long it takes me to finish.

In other words I consider this a nice suggestion, but hardly an ideal
"rule."

> 2. Exercise larger muscle groups before the smaller
> ones. I.e... Back, Legs and Chest before shoulders and arms.

I tend to organize my workouts so that I am freshest for the lifts
where I am more likely to drop the weight on my head. Dropping
weights on your noggin is never a good plan, so I tend to start out
with overhead squats.

> 3.Change your workout plan up every twelve to fourteen weeks.

Dan John says that everything works for 6 weeks. So that is when I
change things up :).

> 4. Treat your time in the gym as if it is your most important time
> of the day.

I like lifting weights, but "most important time of the day." I don't
think so.

> 5. Make the workouts at the beginning of the week harder than those
> toward the end of the week.

Alternatively make the workouts at the end of the week harder than the
ones at the beginning of the week :).

> 6. Take at least one day off a week from doing any form of
> exercising.

I think this is mentioned in the Old Testament.

> 7. Change your cardiovascular equipment up each time you exercise.

I only have one pair of running shoes :).

> 8. Monitor your heart rate all the time.

Still beating... check.

> 9. Go over your workout in your head before you start.

I would take this further and say that you should write everything
down. If you aren't tracking your progress you probably aren't making
any progress.

> 10. Efficiency is more important than length. Have a number of reps
> in your head before each time you do a set.

I have no idea what this means, but it sounds like a retake on the old
refrain, "It's not the size of the ship but the motion of the ocean
that counts." I am not sure what this has to do with lifting weights.

Jason

Prisoner at War
May 21st 07, 09:02 PM
On May 21, 2:18 pm, Tom Anderson > wrote:
>
>
> I find i have to have a hard reason to leave, rather than an arbitrary
> deadline - getting to the pub for the quiz at eight, or finishing before
> the gym closes at half past ten are my usual ones!

Well, yes, I also don't like "artificial" deadlines, simply because
for me, it's first and foremost about fun -- and if I'm having fun, I
don't want to leave! That's why "overtraining" is such a hard concept
for me to wrap my mind around. I'm trying to limit my workouts now to
two hours, and only two times a week...so far, in a month of this, I
do seem to notice one thing: I'm getting DOMS again! I'm not sure if
that's a good or bad sign, but I do generally enjoy the feeling of
DOMS.

> It definitely makes a difference, but it's not this simple - the muscles
> you work first get worked hardest, so for general strength, yes, work the
> big ones first, but if you have a particular desire for bulging arms, do
> your curls and pushdowns first.

That's a funny thought. I think I know what you mean -- I'm certainly
at my most "enthusiastic" in the beginning of a workout -- but at the
same time, I do love to "exhaust" myself (the ol' "last two reps are
what really counts" mentality) and so I like both ways of training,
working big muscles first or working smaller ones first. I honestly
haven't noticed a difference, but I can see the logic that it should.

> I'm not aware of any evidence for this. If your plan is suboptimal, or if
> changing it will make you keener, change it, but don't change for the sake
> of change.

Well, the body adapts, doesn't it. The logic is that one must
periodically "psych out" one's own body. I think this notion probably
comes from aerobics and endurance athletes, who regularly amend their
regimen for that reason.

In any case, I can only do so many lat pull-downs before I'm back
doing chin-ups. It's like wanting a change in diet every so often.
Because I mostly work out for fun, doing another set of exercises
really keeps me interested. I'm just totally in love with the
deadlift right now, even though I've tried it before! Funny how some
exercises just sort of catch on.

> I think i'd be quite unhappy if my workout was the most important part of
> my day.
>
> Scratch that - i *have* been pretty unhappy at times when my workout was
> the most important part of my day! Still, beat not having the workout ...

Eh? Working out is almost as fun as sex! Arnold claims to have been
joking when he made his famous remark comparing weightlifting to sex
in "Pumping Iron," but it's basically the case for me! I look forward
to the gym. I look forward to so many things, like piano practice or
reading some good books (though these things kinda ebb and flow, like
favorite toys, basically), but for most of this year it's been the
gym, likely because the older I get the more aware of my, um,
"mortality" I become and working out becomes like a war of "good
versus evil" and is therefore, as I maintain, an "existential"
experience: when I work out (this includes cardio -- oftentimes
especially cardio ["runner's high"]), I fight my own lethargy and
challenge my own notions of who I am and how far I can go.

> He needed to pad his meagre ideas out to ten points?

Well, it's good to be reminded of the basics from time to time. But
that's a really intriguing notion, reserving the hardest workouts for
the beginning of the (work) week. I can see how it'd be a great
stress reliever for Mondays!

> Did he mean 'charge', perhaps, in a metaphorical sense? As in "warm up
> each time you exercise"?

Very cryptic! Been getting some cryptic posts in this newsgroup
lately. =)

> See under point 5.

Well, I guess he was on that target heart rate thing. Speaking of
which (metrics): did you know that the height-weight charts came up
between two doctors who were looking to pad up their conference
presentation?? Seriously, these two doctors back in the '70s were
attending some health or medical conference and were talking
beforehand about their presentation and came up with the idea of a
target health rate in order to think about their findings. One of the
doctors now says that he never meant for the notion, an intellectual
tool, to be taken so literally and seriously!

> I don't think i could get away with this in my gym (with my physique!),
> but i keep a log, and go over that at the head of the workout - review
> what i've done, decide what i'm going to try for this time.

I'm not sure what you mean. Not too many people pose in front of the
mirrors, but they really should. Shyness? If anything, deficiencies
only encourage me all the more! I think that psychologically posing
and flexing is also a good thing, helping one become more "relaxed"
and "confident." It feels good to pose. And, if Arnold's right, it
encourages the mind-muscle connection, teaching the muscles how to
move!

> I don't know what that means.

He seems to be saying not to focus on how long a workout is (echoing
Point One).

> Agreed.
>
>
> YMMV, i guess. I find counting up to my target is a good motivator - "half
> way!", "only two more!", "only one more!".

Sometimes. But, I dunno, maybe it's just my mind, but I can only
"concentrate" on one thing at a time (it sounds tautologous, I know).
You see, it's the difference between the verbs "to be" and "to have"
-- if I'm counting reps, I'm in a "having" mode, a "how much did I
get" frame of mind, which is inferior to the "being" frame of mind
which most often affords me my greatest joys -- instead of being
cognizant of how many reps I have, I am feeling my muscles, really
"inside" them, feeling all the little shots of electricity surging,
firing....

> Because you're already reading mfw, FINEST INFORMATION SOURCE IN THE
> GALAXY.

Well, it's even more entertaining than most muscle mags, I'd agree.

> tom
>
> --
> GOLDIE LOOKIN' CHAIN [...] will ultimately make all other forms of music
> both redundant and unnecessary -- NTK

benb
May 22nd 07, 09:37 AM
"Jason Earl" > wrote in message
...
> writes:
>
>> 4. Treat your time in the gym as if it is your most important time
>> of the day.
>
> I like lifting weights, but "most important time of the day." I don't
> think so.

My most important time of day is spent with my dogs, and girlfriend (No, not
in that way! ;-) ). But I do always try to make time for going out to the
gym, and I try not to let anything crop up that might stop me going on it!
Besides, its better than making Eastenders, Coronation street, or some other
crappy TV soap the most important thing in your day!

>
>> 8. Monitor your heart rate all the time.
>
> Still beating... check.
>

I used to do this, by wearing a heart rate monitor, (chest band with
wireless watch), and tried to keep it between 65%-75% for fat burning. But I
found that a) I burnt off less calories overall, even though those I did
burn were a higher percentage from fat, and b) I spent to much time looking
at the watch, and would end up tripping over myself ;-).
Now a days I leave the HR monitor off, I might not burn such a high
percentage of fat, but I burn more calories overall, and don't end up flat
on my face! I also found that this improved my stamina, and endurance
quicker than it would have!

>> 10. Efficiency is more important than length. Have a number of reps
>> in your head before each time you do a set.
>
> I have no idea what this means, but it sounds like a retake on the old
> refrain, "It's not the size of the ship but the motion of the ocean
> that counts." I am not sure what this has to do with lifting weights.
>

I think he means quality, not quantity! Better to do 15 good reps on a high
weight that work the whole muscle properly, than 50 half arsed reps that
don't really have any benefit!

Tom Anderson
May 22nd 07, 09:58 AM
On Mon, 21 May 2007, Prisoner at War wrote:

> On May 21, 2:18 pm, Tom Anderson > wrote:
>
>> I'm not aware of any evidence for this. If your plan is suboptimal, or
>> if changing it will make you keener, change it, but don't change for
>> the sake of change.
>
> Well, the body adapts, doesn't it. The logic is that one must
> periodically "psych out" one's own body.

I know the argument, i'm saying i'm not aware of any actual evidence for
it. I suspect it's an old wives' tale.

>> I think i'd be quite unhappy if my workout was the most important part
>> of my day.
>>
>> Scratch that - i *have* been pretty unhappy at times when my workout
>> was the most important part of my day! Still, beat not having the
>> workout ...
>
> Eh? Working out is almost as fun as sex! Arnold claims to have been
> joking when he made his famous remark comparing weightlifting to sex
> in "Pumping Iron," but it's basically the case for me!

No comment!

> I look forward to the gym. I look forward to so many things, like piano
> practice or reading some good books (though these things kinda ebb and
> flow, like favorite toys, basically), but for most of this year it's
> been the gym, likely because the older I get the more aware of my, um,
> "mortality" I become and working out becomes like a war of "good versus
> evil" and is therefore, as I maintain, an "existential" experience: when
> I work out (this includes cardio -- oftentimes especially cardio
> ["runner's high"]), I fight my own lethargy and challenge my own notions
> of who I am and how far I can go.

Fair enough. You sound kind of like a scary guy from a martial arts movie.

I have to say, though, my housemate, who's a cardio freak (well, he's a
freak generally, but he loves his cardio) is the same - he gets high off
the exercise, and gets unhappy if he goes without it.

tom

--
Osteoclasts = monsters from the DEEP -- Andrew

Pete
May 22nd 07, 09:59 AM
"Jason Earl" > schreef:

>> 1. Set a time limit on all your workouts. End the workout if you run
>> over.

> Generally speaking I like these types of workouts as they are easy to
> plan. However, sometimes I like to do just the opposite. Instead of
> planning how long the workout should take I take a set workout and see
> how long it takes me to finish.

Good thinking. Some days you are just slower/faster then other days.

Or you can manage more/less sets. Which dictate the amount of time spend.

> In other words I consider this a nice suggestion, but hardly an ideal
> "rule."

There are a few "rules", but i have seen people on weird schedules still
making progress.

Bottom line is still the amount/reps you lift in good form.

>> 3.Change your workout plan up every twelve to fourteen weeks.

> Dan John says that everything works for 6 weeks. So that is when I
> change things up :).

I dont know.

I always advice people to stick to a program that gave them good results.
Why **** it up?

>> 6. Take at least one day off a week from doing any form of
>> exercising.

> I think this is mentioned in the Old Testament.

Good one.

>> 7. Change your cardiovascular equipment up each time you exercise.

> I only have one pair of running shoes :).

What he suggested doesnt make any sense. Its all about heartbeat.

> I have no idea what this means, but it sounds like a retake on the old
> refrain, "It's not the size of the ship but the motion of the ocean
> that counts." I am not sure what this has to do with lifting weights.

Bottom line;

If you move a certain weight, without momentum, and move more weight any
time from now, the muscles involved in that movement will be
bigger/stronger. It takes mass to move mass.

Thats it.

--
Pete

Pete
May 22nd 07, 11:13 AM
"benb" > schreef:

>> I like lifting weights, but "most important time of the day." I don't
>> think so.

> My most important time of day is spent with my dogs, and girlfriend (No,
> not in that way! ;-) ).

Dogs are actually loyal.

> But I do always try to make time for going out to the gym, and I try not
> to let anything crop up that might stop me going on it!
> Besides, its better than making Eastenders, Coronation street, or some
> other crappy TV soap the most important thing in your day!

Coronation Street? Are you kidding me?

We had that here 30 years ago.

--
Pete

Prisoner at War
May 22nd 07, 05:44 PM
On May 22, 4:58 am, Tom Anderson > wrote:
>
>
> I know the argument, i'm saying i'm not aware of any actual evidence for
> it. I suspect it's an old wives' tale.

This may be another one of those "YMMV" kind of things, then.

> Fair enough. You sound kind of like a scary guy from a martial arts movie.

Actually, I've always puzzled over this...for me, everything I do has
been about its "existential" meaning, but many folks claim to not know
what I'm talking about...perhaps they just wouldn't choose the same
words? I can't imagine anyone doing anything seriously (even if for
fun), without a kind of philosophical outlook to it.

> I have to say, though, my housemate, who's a cardio freak (well, he's a
> freak generally, but he loves his cardio) is the same - he gets high off
> the exercise, and gets unhappy if he goes without it.
>
> tom

I've definitely noticed that for myself, and I'm convinced it's the
case for everyone else -- only they may not want the "fuss and bother"
of a jog. But some kind of cardiovascular activity, even if not
within their target heart rates, will make them feel better, mentally
and physically.