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Michael J.
February 2nd 04, 05:55 PM
What's everyones take on it?

A friend of mine at work swears by it.
But to me it's just a big endorsement, or rather when i see a big name
-in this case Dorian Yates'- endorsing a product. It's almost like
Michael Jordan and his shoes.

I'm actually contemplating between creatine and ProGF.

Jay
February 2nd 04, 06:11 PM
"Michael J." > wrote in message
.. .
> What's everyones take on it?
>
> A friend of mine at work swears by it.
> But to me it's just a big endorsement, or rather when i see a big name -in
> this case Dorian Yates'- endorsing a product. It's almost like Michael
> Jordan and his shoes.
>
> I'm actually contemplating between creatine and ProGF.

few supps are worth it. Very few. Tough to name 3. Protein, creatine,
HMB. These have good reports.

Most vitamins are crap

Top Sirloin
February 2nd 04, 06:39 PM
On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 18:11:47 GMT, "Jay" > wrote:

>
>"Michael J." > wrote in message
.. .
>> What's everyones take on it?
>>
>> A friend of mine at work swears by it.
>> But to me it's just a big endorsement, or rather when i see a big name -in
>> this case Dorian Yates'- endorsing a product. It's almost like Michael
>> Jordan and his shoes.
>>
>> I'm actually contemplating between creatine and ProGF.
>
>few supps are worth it. Very few. Tough to name 3. Protein, creatine,
>HMB. These have good reports.

You meant to type EFA instead of HMB, right?


--
Scott Johnson
"Always with the excuses for small legs. People like you are
why they only open the top half of caskets." -Tommy Bowen

Michael J.
February 3rd 04, 01:11 AM
Top Sirloin wrote:
> On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 18:11:47 GMT, "Jay" > wrote:
>
>
>>"Michael J." > wrote in message
.. .
>>
>>>What's everyones take on it?
>>>
>>>A friend of mine at work swears by it.
>>>But to me it's just a big endorsement, or rather when i see a big name -in
>>>this case Dorian Yates'- endorsing a product. It's almost like Michael
>>>Jordan and his shoes.
>>>
>>>I'm actually contemplating between creatine and ProGF.
>>
>>few supps are worth it. Very few. Tough to name 3. Protein, creatine,
>>HMB. These have good reports.
>
>
> You meant to type EFA instead of HMB, right?
>
>
excuse my being naive, but EFA? and/or HMB?
lol

Top Sirloin
February 3rd 04, 04:18 AM
On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 17:11:50 -0800, "Michael J." > wrote:

>Top Sirloin wrote:
>> On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 18:11:47 GMT, "Jay" > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"Michael J." > wrote in message
.. .
>>>
>>>>What's everyones take on it?
>>>>
>>>>A friend of mine at work swears by it.
>>>>But to me it's just a big endorsement, or rather when i see a big name -in
>>>>this case Dorian Yates'- endorsing a product. It's almost like Michael
>>>>Jordan and his shoes.
>>>>
>>>>I'm actually contemplating between creatine and ProGF.
>>>
>>>few supps are worth it. Very few. Tough to name 3. Protein, creatine,
>>>HMB. These have good reports.
>>
>>
>> You meant to type EFA instead of HMB, right?
>>
>>
>excuse my being naive, but EFA? and/or HMB?

EFA=Essential Fatty Acids.


--

Scott Johnson
"be a man ,stop looking for handouts , eat ,lift and shut your mouth"
-John Carlo

Jonathan
February 3rd 04, 02:12 PM
"Michael J." > wrote in message >...
> What's everyones take on it?
>
> A friend of mine at work swears by it.
> But to me it's just a big endorsement, or rather when i see a big name
> -in this case Dorian Yates'- endorsing a product.

I take it you're referring to Chemical Nutritional, known as Dorian
Yates Approved in the States, I believe. It's not just that he
endorses the products; it's his company. Make of that what you will.

Jonathan

Jay
February 3rd 04, 03:53 PM
"Top Sirloin" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 18:11:47 GMT, "Jay" > wrote:
>
>>
>>"Michael J." > wrote in message
.. .
>>> What's everyones take on it?
>>>
>>> A friend of mine at work swears by it.
>>> But to me it's just a big endorsement, or rather when i see a big
>>> name -in
>>> this case Dorian Yates'- endorsing a product. It's almost like Michael
>>> Jordan and his shoes.
>>>
>>> I'm actually contemplating between creatine and ProGF.
>>
>>few supps are worth it. Very few. Tough to name 3. Protein, creatine,
>>HMB. These have good reports.
>
> You meant to type EFA instead of HMB, right?
>
>
no. EFA's would be a good choice for health.

That's 1. I am trying for 3. Protein could be taken off of my list, too,
because adequate protein intake negates the need for supplementation, in
most cases.

Wish I could find the study that supports high level whey intake.

Robert Schuh
February 3rd 04, 09:52 PM
Jay wrote:

> "Michael J." > wrote in message
> .. .
> > What's everyones take on it?
> >
> > A friend of mine at work swears by it.
> > But to me it's just a big endorsement, or rather when i see a big name -in
> > this case Dorian Yates'- endorsing a product. It's almost like Michael
> > Jordan and his shoes.
> >
> > I'm actually contemplating between creatine and ProGF.
>
> few supps are worth it. Very few. Tough to name 3. Protein, creatine,
> HMB. These have good reports.
>
> Most vitamins are crap

Jay,
Vitamins are FAR from being crap and HMB was proven to be a fraud years ago.
Where did you get the idea that HMB did anything?


--
Robert Schuh
"Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche
"The meek shall inherit nothing" - Zappa

Jay
February 4th 04, 05:06 AM
"Robert Schuh" > wrote in message
...
> Jay wrote:
>
>> "Michael J." > wrote in message
>> .. .
>> > What's everyones take on it?
>> >
>> > A friend of mine at work swears by it.
>> > But to me it's just a big endorsement, or rather when i see a big
>> > name -in
>> > this case Dorian Yates'- endorsing a product. It's almost like Michael
>> > Jordan and his shoes.
>> >
>> > I'm actually contemplating between creatine and ProGF.
>>
>> few supps are worth it. Very few. Tough to name 3. Protein, creatine,
>> HMB. These have good reports.
>>
>> Most vitamins are crap
>
> Jay,
> Vitamins are FAR from being crap and HMB was proven to be a fraud years
> ago.
> Where did you get the idea that HMB did anything?
> >
http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/abstract/94/2/651

It, before you say it, indicate that protein is ineffective.

If I were to buy any supp, it'd be creatine and protein. inre to vitamins
being crap, not all, a good many. take a look at some xrays of some vitamin
takers. Unless they have found a way to absorb from their distal colon,
it's wasted $

Oldman
February 4th 04, 07:18 AM
Jay wrote:
> "Robert Schuh" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Jay wrote:
>>
>>> "Michael J." > wrote in message
>>> .. .
>>>> What's everyones take on it?
>>>>
>>>> A friend of mine at work swears by it.
>>>> But to me it's just a big endorsement, or rather when i see a big
>>>> name -in
>>>> this case Dorian Yates'- endorsing a product. It's almost like
>>>> Michael Jordan and his shoes.
>>>>
>>>> I'm actually contemplating between creatine and ProGF.
>>>
>>> few supps are worth it. Very few. Tough to name 3. Protein,
>>> creatine, HMB. These have good reports.
>>>
>>> Most vitamins are crap
>>
>> Jay,
>> Vitamins are FAR from being crap and HMB was proven to be a fraud
>> years ago.
>> Where did you get the idea that HMB did anything?
>>>
> http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/abstract/94/2/651
>
> It, before you say it, indicate that protein is ineffective.
>
> If I were to buy any supp, it'd be creatine and protein. inre to
> vitamins being crap, not all, a good many. take a look at some xrays
> of some vitamin takers. Unless they have found a way to absorb from
> their distal colon, it's wasted $

http://www.cbass.com/HOMOCYST.HTM Here is an article about B vitamins
and heart trouble. Some of the research might change your mind about
vitamins being worthless. The following site has some good articles too.

http://www.cbass.com/

Aaron
February 4th 04, 11:26 PM
"Oldman" > wrote in message
...
> Jay wrote:
> > "Robert Schuh" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> Jay wrote:
> >>
> >>> "Michael J." > wrote in message
> >>> .. .
> >>>> What's everyones take on it?
> >>>>
> >>>> A friend of mine at work swears by it.
> >>>> But to me it's just a big endorsement, or rather when i see a big
> >>>> name -in
> >>>> this case Dorian Yates'- endorsing a product. It's almost like
> >>>> Michael Jordan and his shoes.
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm actually contemplating between creatine and ProGF.
> >>>
> >>> few supps are worth it. Very few. Tough to name 3. Protein,
> >>> creatine, HMB. These have good reports.
> >>>
> >>> Most vitamins are crap
> >>
> >> Jay,
> >> Vitamins are FAR from being crap and HMB was proven to be a fraud
> >> years ago.
> >> Where did you get the idea that HMB did anything?
> >>>
> > http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/abstract/94/2/651
> >
> > It, before you say it, indicate that protein is ineffective.
> >
> > If I were to buy any supp, it'd be creatine and protein. inre to
> > vitamins being crap, not all, a good many. take a look at some xrays
> > of some vitamin takers. Unless they have found a way to absorb from
> > their distal colon, it's wasted $
>
> http://www.cbass.com/HOMOCYST.HTM Here is an article about B vitamins
> and heart trouble. Some of the research might change your mind about
> vitamins being worthless. The following site has some good articles too.
>

yes, but since you are the know all of the knowledge, you would understand
that while raised homocysteine is associated with an increased risk of heart
disease, lowering homocyseine via vitmains hasnt shown a decreased risk.
In one recent paper (in secondary prevention) folic acid/b12 did nothing
(other than decreasing homocysteine)
--
Aaron

Oldman
February 5th 04, 03:05 AM
Aaron wrote:

>>>> Jay,
>>>> Vitamins are FAR from being crap and HMB was proven to be a fraud
>>>> years ago.
>>>> Where did you get the idea that HMB did anything?
>>>>>
>>> http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/abstract/94/2/651
>>>
>>> It, before you say it, indicate that protein is ineffective.
>>>
>>> If I were to buy any supp, it'd be creatine and protein. inre to
>>> vitamins being crap, not all, a good many. take a look at some
>>> xrays of some vitamin takers. Unless they have found a way to
>>> absorb from their distal colon, it's wasted $
>>
>> http://www.cbass.com/HOMOCYST.HTM Here is an article about B
>> vitamins and heart trouble. Some of the research might change your
>> mind about vitamins being worthless. The following site has some
>> good articles too.
>>
>
> yes, but since you are the know all of the knowledge, you would
> understand that while raised homocysteine is associated with an
> increased risk of heart disease, lowering homocyseine via vitmains
> hasnt shown a decreased risk.
> In one recent paper (in secondary prevention) folic acid/b12 did
> nothing (other than decreasing homocysteine)

I haven't read the paper you so conveniently posted a link to. The take
I got on the paper was homocystein was the protein (enzyme?) which caused
damage to the artery walls. Of course if you take a middle age person who
has had high levels of homocystein perhaps he already has damage. A 6
months regimen of vitamins therapy to lower the homocystein may keep further
damage from being done. What about the damage that has already been done?
Doesn't the cholesterol try to repair the damage and this is the mechanism
for the clots? The cholesterol buildup in the injured artery has no
feedback and continues to build until it has partially blocked the artery.
What the B vitamins do is lower the homocystein to a safer level. It is
something younger people should look at now and not wait until the damage is
done. Don't take them if you don't want to. I am gambling they are some
help and so far at 57 years old I am the only male in my family who has had
neither a heart attack nor open heart surgery before age 50.

Aaron
February 5th 04, 04:23 AM
"Oldman" > wrote in message
...
> Aaron wrote:
>
> >>>> Jay,
> >>>> Vitamins are FAR from being crap and HMB was proven to be a fraud
> >>>> years ago.
> >>>> Where did you get the idea that HMB did anything?
> >>>>>
> >>> http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/abstract/94/2/651
> >>>
> >>> It, before you say it, indicate that protein is ineffective.
> >>>
> >>> If I were to buy any supp, it'd be creatine and protein. inre to
> >>> vitamins being crap, not all, a good many. take a look at some
> >>> xrays of some vitamin takers. Unless they have found a way to
> >>> absorb from their distal colon, it's wasted $
> >>
> >> http://www.cbass.com/HOMOCYST.HTM Here is an article about B
> >> vitamins and heart trouble. Some of the research might change your
> >> mind about vitamins being worthless. The following site has some
> >> good articles too.
> >>
> >
> > yes, but since you are the know all of the knowledge, you would
> > understand that while raised homocysteine is associated with an
> > increased risk of heart disease, lowering homocyseine via vitmains
> > hasnt shown a decreased risk.
> > In one recent paper (in secondary prevention) folic acid/b12 did
> > nothing (other than decreasing homocysteine)
>
> I haven't read the paper you so conveniently posted a link to. The
take
> I got on the paper was homocystein was the protein (enzyme?) which caused
> damage to the artery walls. Of course if you take a middle age person who
> has had high levels of homocystein perhaps he already has damage. A 6
> months regimen of vitamins therapy to lower the homocystein may keep
further
> damage from being done. What about the damage that has already been done?
> Doesn't the cholesterol try to repair the damage and this is the mechanism
> for the clots? The cholesterol buildup in the injured artery has no
> feedback and continues to build until it has partially blocked the artery.
> What the B vitamins do is lower the homocystein to a safer level. It is
> something younger people should look at now and not wait until the damage
is
> done. Don't take them if you don't want to. I am gambling they are some
> help and so far at 57 years old I am the only male in my family who has
had
> neither a heart attack nor open heart surgery before age 50.

if you dont understand what Homocysteine is, why are you trying to discuss
it?

--
Aaron