PDA

View Full Version : rowing


PP[_2_]
December 20th 09, 05:29 PM
Hello Group,

I've made some progress using weights.

Will a program where one day I use a rowing bench on it lightest state,
heart rate at 85% intensity for 30 minutes and the other day train with
weights (full body) be any good? Will the muscles be able to recover
enough to grow? One day a week I take a break.

If that is not good, what program would be better so that I both get
endurance and muscle mass?

Regards

R P
December 21st 09, 03:46 PM
I can't answer the specific question,..as it only be
opinion....But!.....In my opinion any exercise ya stick with is better
for you than [not] exercising. Now if your are striving for a
bodybuilding achievement,..then I would suggest training only as a
bodybuilder. If overall condition,strength etc,..are your goal....well
it all works.

Look at the old time coal miners,..worked the same muscles HARD
everyday,.6 days a week,..well, they may not have been "pretty",,,,,but
they were sure as hell strong & muscular.

BTW, been thinking about buying a rower myself. Supposed to be one of
the best all-round movements you can do.

ATP*
December 24th 09, 06:47 PM
"R P" > wrote in message
...
> I can't answer the specific question,..as it only be
> opinion....But!.....In my opinion any exercise ya stick with is better
> for you than [not] exercising. Now if your are striving for a
> bodybuilding achievement,..then I would suggest training only as a
> bodybuilder. If overall condition,strength etc,..are your goal....well
> it all works.
>
> Look at the old time coal miners,..worked the same muscles HARD
> everyday,.6 days a week,..well, they may not have been "pretty",,,,,but
> they were sure as hell strong & muscular.
>
> BTW, been thinking about buying a rower myself. Supposed to be one of
> the best all-round movements you can do.
>

It is but bad technique and even overused good technique can put a hurt on
your back.

David
December 26th 09, 01:57 PM
"PP" > wrote in message
...
> Hello Group,
>
> I've made some progress using weights.
>
> Will a program where one day I use a rowing bench on it lightest state,
> heart rate at 85% intensity for 30 minutes and the other day train with
> weights (full body) be any good? Will the muscles be able to recover
> enough to grow? One day a week I take a break.
>
> If that is not good, what program would be better so that I both get
> endurance and muscle mass?
>

Rowing is not a good exercise if cardio is your goal. If you consider
'perceived effort' to stay within a sertain target heart rate rowing is
probably the least efficient movement you can do.



> Regards

Tom Anderson
December 27th 09, 12:18 AM
On Sat, 26 Dec 2009, David wrote:

> "PP" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> I've made some progress using weights.
>>
>> Will a program where one day I use a rowing bench on it lightest state,
>> heart rate at 85% intensity for 30 minutes and the other day train with
>> weights (full body) be any good? Will the muscles be able to recover
>> enough to grow? One day a week I take a break.
>>
>> If that is not good, what program would be better so that I both get
>> endurance and muscle mass?
>
> Rowing is not a good exercise if cardio is your goal.

You serious? Why not? Seems to me like a way of working out that uses a
pretty large fraction of the muscles in your body, which means it's an
ideal way of putting a big load on your cardiovascular system.

tom

--
IMPORTANCE MEMO: >>> WHEN YOU BUY AN N-GAGE QD <<< PLEASE, please CONTINUE
TO TALK ON THE SIDE!!$ Note: the other party will not be able to hear you,
BUT WHO REALLY CRAPS A THING, SIDETALKIN' 2009++!!!

David
December 27th 09, 12:49 AM
"Tom Anderson" > wrote in message
rth.li...
> On Sat, 26 Dec 2009, David wrote:
>
>> "PP" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>> I've made some progress using weights.
>>>
>>> Will a program where one day I use a rowing bench on it lightest state,
>>> heart rate at 85% intensity for 30 minutes and the other day train with
>>> weights (full body) be any good? Will the muscles be able to recover
>>> enough to grow? One day a week I take a break.
>>>
>>> If that is not good, what program would be better so that I both get
>>> endurance and muscle mass?
>>
>> Rowing is not a good exercise if cardio is your goal.
>
> You serious? Why not? Seems to me like a way of working out that uses a
> pretty large fraction of the muscles in your body, which means it's an
> ideal way of putting a big load on your cardiovascular system.
>

Well rowing overuses certain muscles like glutes, quads, even done properly
it is hard on your lower back. - in my opinion if you are doing cardio and
not pumping your legs as in walking, cycling or running the workout becomes
anaerobic and those targetting muscles are overused causing fatique before
you get a sustained aerobic effect.
Basically it is a very hard way to get into your target heart zone. You
could maintain your THZ say for 30 mins by rowing but it is one very tough
workout - whereas you could go for a brisk walk - get the same aerobic
effect but don't kill yourself doing it. Or a treadmill workout on an
incline will get your heart rate elevated with much less perceived effort
than rowing.

> tom

R P
December 27th 09, 04:45 AM
My past employer.[I,m now retired]..sent us to a better health
program, As a way to teach better health through lifestyle,..the means
to the end being,..less sick time,..lower injuries,.relieve
stress,.etc,& so-on.

The instructors there taught us that rowing was second, only to
swimming as a means of physical activity,.for overall exercise,&
conditioning.

They said it involves some 75% of all the muscles in the body, & raises
heart rate without undo stress. They classified it as aerobic &
anaerobic.

Ron

David
December 27th 09, 05:58 AM
"R P" > wrote in message
...
> My past employer.[I,m now retired]..sent us to a better health
> program, As a way to teach better health through lifestyle,..the means
> to the end being,..less sick time,..lower injuries,.relieve
> stress,.etc,& so-on.
>
> The instructors there taught us that rowing was second, only to
> swimming as a means of physical activity,.for overall exercise,&
> conditioning.
>
> They said it involves some 75% of all the muscles in the body, & raises
> heart rate without undo stress. They classified it as aerobic &
> anaerobic.

The thing is that if you are after hypertrophy the rest of the time, any
other anaerobic work you do will interfere with your lifting program - you
know muscles need to recover.
Using the muscles isnt the whole story - just try doing light squats for
half an hour which is basically the same as rowing - see if you can get past
5 minutes without overusing and fatiquing your quads.Then try a light jog
for half an hour - your heart rate will be much the same but with jogging it
is far more sustainable. It is all about perceived effort - if that doesnt
matter to you then do rowing.

>
> Ron
>

R P
December 27th 09, 02:35 PM
I see,.but aren't you referring to more of a "body-building" program?
{I think}...I'm speaking of just weight training, exercise & overall
conditioning.

As far as body-building goes,..most of the professional "finite"
programs I've read involve steroids to some degree. As such they are not
intended for us mere mortals<g> Which is why I believe they stress
proper rest,p/body part etc.

I mentioned this to someone else,..look at the old time coal
miners,..they worked their muscles,the same muscles HARD everyday! They
might not win any BB contest for symmetry, & perfect physique,..but they
were muscular,rock hard & strong as hell.

Same is true for boxers,martial arts fighters etc don't ya think?

Bodybuilding is a world of it's own {IMO}.
I believe it takes a dedicated routine,.strictly applied,..as well as
diet & of course a-bit of roids doesn't hurt.

Ron

David
December 27th 09, 06:40 PM
"R P" > wrote in message
...
> I see,.but aren't you referring to more of a "body-building" program?
> {I think}...I'm speaking of just weight training, exercise & overall
> conditioning.
>
> As far as body-building goes,..most of the professional "finite"
> programs I've read involve steroids to some degree. As such they are not
> intended for us mere mortals<g> Which is why I believe they stress
> proper rest,p/body part etc.
>
> I mentioned this to someone else,..look at the old time coal
> miners,..they worked their muscles,the same muscles HARD everyday! They
> might not win any BB contest for symmetry, & perfect physique,..but they
> were muscular,rock hard & strong as hell.
>
> Same is true for boxers,martial arts fighters etc don't ya think?
>
> Bodybuilding is a world of it's own {IMO}.
> I believe it takes a dedicated routine,.strictly applied,..as well as
> diet & of course a-bit of roids doesn't hurt.

Yes you could be right, Try rowing - use a heart rate monitor and see if you
can get into your target zone for 30 minutes See how it goes and let me
know

>
> Ron
>

R P
December 27th 09, 10:58 PM
I happen to have a good H/R monitor,..I think I'll do that.
Give me some "training" time though. As I recall when I went through
the better health program ,..they [the trainers] only allowed us 20
minute max at any one station. I was 8 years younger then,so I'll likely
need time to work up to it? The theory was verity,& a touch of
competition. Oddly enough some people could do certain stations
[exercises] longer than they could do others,.& or perform better at
that station than others stations.

My nemesis was the stair stepper,..5 minutes & I was toast,..whereas
all the other stations,.including rower, I'd go till they blew the
whistle....??

Ron

David
December 28th 09, 12:01 AM
"R P" > wrote in message
...
> I happen to have a good H/R monitor,..I think I'll do that.
> Give me some "training" time though. As I recall when I went through
> the better health program ,..they [the trainers] only allowed us 20
> minute max at any one station. I was 8 years younger then,so I'll likely
> need time to work up to it? The theory was verity,& a touch of
> competition. Oddly enough some people could do certain stations
> [exercises] longer than they could do others,.& or perform better at
> that station than others stations.
>
> My nemesis was the stair stepper,..5 minutes & I was toast,..whereas
> all the other stations,.including rower, I'd go till they blew the
> whistle....??

What you need is clarity.
There is cardio which works your heart muscle
Then there is strength training. You work each in different ways.
If you are a tradesman you are trained to use the correct tool for the job
at hand. If you want to drill a hole you dont use a screw driver - it is
inefficient. When you use the wrong tool you compromise what you are doing -
i..e. you get a very difficult cardio workout and you compromise on your
strength training. Strength training is different from hypertrophy although
many of the same principles apply. There is no reason to combine the two and
if you do you are just making life difficult for yourself. In my book rowing
is a crap exercise as it does nothing well and you risk injury by overusing
certain muscles

>
> Ron
>

David
December 28th 09, 12:28 AM
"R P" > wrote in message
...
> I see,.but aren't you referring to more of a "body-building" program?
> {I think}...I'm speaking of just weight training, exercise & overall
> conditioning.
>
> As far as body-building goes,..most of the professional "finite"
> programs I've read involve steroids to some degree. As such they are not
> intended for us mere mortals<g> Which is why I believe they stress
> proper rest,p/body part etc.
>
> I mentioned this to someone else,..look at the old time coal
> miners,..they worked their muscles,the same muscles HARD everyday! They
> might not win any BB contest for symmetry, & perfect physique,..but they
> were muscular,rock hard & strong as hell.
>
> Same is true for boxers,martial arts fighters etc don't ya think?
>
> Bodybuilding is a world of it's own {IMO}.
> I believe it takes a dedicated routine,.strictly applied,..as well as
> diet & of course a-bit of roids doesn't hurt.
>
> Ron
>

Where you are confused is that bodybuilding is one activity - strength
training is another - just because you are working your muscles doesnt make
it body building. Forget 'bodybuilding' and think 'strength training' - you
dont need to talk 'perfect physique', 'symmetry' etc

R P
December 28th 09, 02:59 PM
Well , you are entitled to your opinion but! The six week class I
went through was taught / over seen by exercise physiologist,.personal
trainers, & a cardio nurse. So unless you have credentials that surpass
theirs,..I gotta go with their opinion,..that being it is one of the
[best] all around exercises....

Ron

David
December 28th 09, 06:51 PM
"R P" > wrote in message
...
> Well , you are entitled to your opinion but! The six week class I
> went through was taught / over seen by exercise physiologist,.personal
> trainers, & a cardio nurse. So unless you have credentials that surpass
> theirs,..I gotta go with their opinion,..that being it is one of the
> [best] all around exercises....


As you say it is my opinion formed over 25 years of being in this industry
and observing thousands of people using various equipment. I think I know
more about this stuff than the people you have mentioned other than the
cardio nurse ha ha ha ha.

One thing I have learned is that there is a direct relationship between
people who make a lot of noise when they start something to those who stick
to it.

Good luck.




>
> Ron
>

Tom Anderson
December 28th 09, 11:58 PM
On Sun, 27 Dec 2009, David wrote:

> "R P" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I see,.but aren't you referring to more of a "body-building" program?
>> {I think}...I'm speaking of just weight training, exercise & overall
>> conditioning.
>>
>> As far as body-building goes,..most of the professional "finite"
>> programs I've read involve steroids to some degree. As such they are not
>> intended for us mere mortals<g> Which is why I believe they stress
>> proper rest,p/body part etc.
>>
>> I mentioned this to someone else,..look at the old time coal
>> miners,..they worked their muscles,the same muscles HARD everyday! They
>> might not win any BB contest for symmetry, & perfect physique,..but they
>> were muscular,rock hard & strong as hell.
>>
>> Same is true for boxers,martial arts fighters etc don't ya think?
>>
>> Bodybuilding is a world of it's own {IMO}.
>> I believe it takes a dedicated routine,.strictly applied,..as well as
>> diet & of course a-bit of roids doesn't hurt.
>
> Yes you could be right, Try rowing - use a heart rate monitor and see if
> you can get into your target zone for 30 minutes See how it goes and let
> me know

What on earth is this target heart rate that you can sustain for 30
minutes? If you're trying to build anaerobic capacity, you should be doing
interval training with far shorter intervals than that. If you're trying
to build aerobic capacity, you should also be doing interval training with
far shorter intervals than that. If you're trying to build endurance, you
should be doing sessions far longer than that. If you're trying to lose
fat, you should be eating less.

There is no fitness goal that is served by doing cardio for 30 minutes.

tom

--
I content myself with the Speculative part [...], I care not for the
Practick. I seldom bring any thing to use, 'tis not my way. Knowledge
is my ultimate end. -- Sir Nicholas Gimcrack

David
December 29th 09, 01:36 AM
"Tom Anderson" > wrote in message
rth.li...
> On Sun, 27 Dec 2009, David wrote:
>
>> "R P" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> I see,.but aren't you referring to more of a "body-building" program?
>>> {I think}...I'm speaking of just weight training, exercise & overall
>>> conditioning.
>>>
>>> As far as body-building goes,..most of the professional "finite"
>>> programs I've read involve steroids to some degree. As such they are not
>>> intended for us mere mortals<g> Which is why I believe they stress
>>> proper rest,p/body part etc.
>>>
>>> I mentioned this to someone else,..look at the old time coal
>>> miners,..they worked their muscles,the same muscles HARD everyday! They
>>> might not win any BB contest for symmetry, & perfect physique,..but they
>>> were muscular,rock hard & strong as hell.
>>>
>>> Same is true for boxers,martial arts fighters etc don't ya think?
>>>
>>> Bodybuilding is a world of it's own {IMO}.
>>> I believe it takes a dedicated routine,.strictly applied,..as well as
>>> diet & of course a-bit of roids doesn't hurt.
>>
>> Yes you could be right, Try rowing - use a heart rate monitor and see if
>> you can get into your target zone for 30 minutes See how it goes and let
>> me know
>
> What on earth is this target heart rate that you can sustain for 30
> minutes? If you're trying to build anaerobic capacity, you should be doing
> interval training with far shorter intervals than that. If you're trying
> to build aerobic capacity, you should also be doing interval training with
> far shorter intervals than that. If you're trying to build endurance, you
> should be doing sessions far longer than that. If you're trying to lose
> fat, you should be eating less.
>
> There is no fitness goal that is served by doing cardio for 30 minutes.
>

Are you saying that you wont get an aerobic benefit working out for 30
minutes with a target heart rate?
Sure hiit is a great way to train I agree.
But this person Ron wants to combine an aerobic and strength workout on a
rowing machine. As if he is going to improve his strength with a workout
doing 1000 reps continuosly as you do in rowing with a pulling movement for
30 mins or however long he wants to do it. - he is a moron.


> tom
>
> --
> I content myself with the Speculative part [...], I care not for the
> Practick. I seldom bring any thing to use, 'tis not my way. Knowledge
> is my ultimate end. -- Sir Nicholas Gimcrack

R P
December 29th 09, 02:19 PM
Well this person Ron,..ya know me the moron?.....NEVER said I
wanted to,..or expected to make strength gains as well as aerobic gains
at the same time on a rower!!!

I said I intend to include a rower in my work outs for verity more than
anything,..& have been told by professional trainers,.a cardio nurse,..&
an exercise physiologist that it {IS} one of the best all-around
exercises that can be done.

But!!! you are so busy blowing your own horn you can't find time to pay
any attention to what ya read.

And it would appear the one & only thing you can do well,....is start
calling people names,..in an attempt to fortify in your own little pea
brain just how special you are.....Ron

David
December 29th 09, 02:41 PM
"R P" > wrote in message
...
> Well this person Ron,..ya know me the moron?.....NEVER said I
> wanted to,..or expected to make strength gains as well as aerobic gains
> at the same time on a rower!!!
>
> I said I intend to include a rower in my work outs for verity more than
> anything,..& have been told by professional trainers,.a cardio nurse,..&
> an exercise physiologist that it {IS} one of the best all-around
> exercises that can be done.
>
> But!!! you are so busy blowing your own horn you can't find time to pay
> any attention to what ya read.
>
> And it would appear the one & only thing you can do well,....is start
> calling people names,..in an attempt to fortify in your own little pea
> brain just how special you are.....Ron
>
Hahaha good one Ron. No you are certainly not a moron!
So what were you doing rowing for?? What is "exercise" to you? Is it aerobic
conditioning or strength training? What the **** are you doing it for? In
your original post you said something about the cardio nurse says it is
aerobic and anaerobic so that is where I thought that was your idea of why
it is the "best" exercise.
OK so now you say you are doing it for all over muscle conditioning - is
that about right?: So you think that doing a pulling movement around 1000
times with your upper body is an efficient way to get strength?
Just get some dumbells and a bench Ron- cost ya less $$$. Now you can do a
sensible exercise routine if it is strength you are after. You can also do
some "pushing:" exercises so your poor little chest can get some exercise
as well

R P
December 29th 09, 03:22 PM
Well David,..you missed it once again,..I bought it more for verity
than anything. And yes,..a rower can build endurance,& maintain a level
of strength ,...or build strength ,..in cases such as re-hab. This
explained by [again] professional trainers.

And [again] as I said unless you have credentials that trump their's
,...{no disrespect to you} ,but I'm going to lean toward their advise.

You talk like you think I'm a rookie,.I'm not. I have a professional
grade gym in my home. I have some knowledge in this area,...however I
don't spend my time blowing my own horn . I do ask & seek advise from
those {qualified} professionals & regular schmoes such as myself,..as I
feel ya' can always learn something.

I'm 60 years old & still bench in the low 300s for final set,..& still
curl 125. In my younger days I competed in amateur power-lifting
competitions ......point being ?.....I'm not new here!......Ron

David
December 29th 09, 03:41 PM
"R P" > wrote in message
...
> Well David,..you missed it once again,..I bought it more for verity
> than anything. And yes,..a rower can build endurance,& maintain a level
> of strength ,...or build strength ,..in cases such as re-hab. This
> explained by [again] professional trainers.
>
> And [again] as I said unless you have credentials that trump their's
> ,...{no disrespect to you} ,but I'm going to lean toward their advise.
>
> You talk like you think I'm a rookie,.I'm not. I have a professional
> grade gym in my home. I have some knowledge in this area,...however I
> don't spend my time blowing my own horn . I do ask & seek advise from
> those {qualified} professionals & regular schmoes such as myself,..as I
> feel ya' can always learn something.
>
> I'm 60 years old & still bench in the low 300s for final set,..& still
> curl 125. In my younger days I competed in amateur power-lifting
> competitions ......point being ?.....I'm not new here!......Ron

Look Ron, you are a smart person and you are seeking advice from others -
now forget the advice and use your own head. Verity means nothing - when you
say you are 'doing it for verity' how do you think you sound? When some
cardio nurse tells you that doing 1000 pulling movements with your upper
body is 'the best exercise' and break your back to boot, just USE YOUR HEAD
Ron - what is that going to do for you? 'Verity' is not a reason to do
something. The best way to build strength is by progressive weight
training - doing rowing for verity will simply conflict with whatever other
weight training you are doing. It will have a NEGATIVE effect on your body.

>

R P
December 29th 09, 05:42 PM
Well david,you are right I'm going to use my head,..along with my
delete button....to ignore anything from you.
Ron

David
December 29th 09, 05:54 PM
"R P" > wrote in message
...
> Well david,you are right I'm going to use my head,..along with my
> delete button....to ignore anything from you.
> Ron

ha ha ha! moron
(doing rowing for 'verity' ha ha ha )

>

David
January 15th 10, 10:23 AM
"David Cohen" > wrote in message
...
> Tom Anderson > wrote:
>> David wrote:
> > > Rowing is not a good exercise if cardio is your goal.
>> You serious? Why not? Seems to me like a way of working out that uses a
>> pretty large fraction of the muscles in your body, which means it's an
>> ideal way of putting a big load on your cardiovascular system.
>
> Greetings, Gentlemen. Nice to see you all again.
>
> Nice to see, also, that little has changed. David my favorite
> sheep****er is wrong. Again. I rowed crew at Rutgers University (so
> long ago we used stone boats). We were the only team required to have
> an EKG as part of our physical because of the intense cardiovascular
> strain that rowing caused. There is no cardiovascular exercise
> superior to rowing.
>
> To avoid confusion...I do have to remember my audience...rowing is not
> a high pulley row machine. We are talking about a true rowing
> ergometer machine, which engages all of the leg muscles, the lower
> back and abdominal muscles, and the lats/traps and biceps. The only
> muscles not heavily involved were the pecs and triceps.
>
> We were huge mother****ers.
>
> Anyway, pleasure seeing you all again. Next time y'all are in Vegas,
> I'll buy you a beer.
>
> And David, sorry, the steak dinner offer is moot. I've been a
> vegetarian for almost two years now. A nice veggie burger might
> substitute, no?
>

ha ha ha ha!! Fer heavens sake you are embarassing yourself . Rowing is
superior as a cardio workout???? ha ha ha! You see there is a time honoured
way to measure just how effective rowing is - you do a clinical study - get
10 participants - each one uses 5 different cardio machines and goes for 20
minutes at a particular heart rate range. Lets say 120 to 135bpm. At the end
of it (done on different days of course) you ask the person to rate how he
feels - you see Cohen we are well past this ad hoc thing of my opinion vs
your opinion etc - there are ways to test. So it is all about 'perceived
effort'. That's it. So on a rate of 1 to 10 - 10 being least perceived
effort to stay within your THR - rowing would be 3. Cross trainer say 5.
Cycling 7 Treadmill or walking 9. Swimming 7
Now that I have sorted out the infamous yankee doodle . . again . . . i
will go back to molesting sheep.

By the way . . . I seem to remember you had turned vegetarian - never
thought you would stick - is this for heatlh or ethical reasons (of course
what ethics would you have??? ha ha ha)
****ed off about the cancellation of the dinner - I have secreted 3 buckets
of drool since you told me about Chris Ruth. Now you just say 'sorry' it is
cancelled??? Well that is not good enough Cohen . . . surely they have
something vegetarian - you can have a salad with the tofu- me I go fer the
steak . . ha ha ha - I'll take mine medium rare - with a ring of bacon
around it. .


>

David
January 15th 10, 05:34 PM
"David Cohen" > wrote in message
...
On Jan 15, 2:23 am, "David" > wrote:
> "David Cohen" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Tom Anderson > wrote:
> >> David wrote:
> > > > Rowing is not a good exercise if cardio is your goal.
> >> You serious? Why not? Seems to me like a way of working out that uses a
> >> pretty large fraction of the muscles in your body, which means it's an
> >> ideal way of putting a big load on your cardiovascular system.
>
> > Greetings, Gentlemen. Nice to see you all again.
>
> > Nice to see, also, that little has changed. David my favorite
> > sheep****er is wrong. Again. I rowed crew at Rutgers University (so
> > long ago we used stone boats). We were the only team required to have
> > an EKG as part of our physical because of the intense cardiovascular
> > strain that rowing caused. There is no cardiovascular exercise
> > superior to rowing.
>
> > To avoid confusion...I do have to remember my audience...rowing is not
> > a high pulley row machine. We are talking about a true rowing
> > ergometer machine, which engages all of the leg muscles, the lower
> > back and abdominal muscles, and the lats/traps and biceps. The only
> > muscles not heavily involved were the pecs and triceps.
>
> > We were huge mother****ers.
>
> > Anyway, pleasure seeing you all again. Next time y'all are in Vegas,
> > I'll buy you a beer.
>
> > And David, sorry, the steak dinner offer is moot. I've been a
> > vegetarian for almost two years now. A nice veggie burger might
> > substitute, no?
>
> ha ha ha ha!! Fer heavens sake you are embarassing yourself . Rowing is
> superior as a cardio workout???? ha ha ha! You see there is a time
> honoured
> way to measure just how effective rowing is - you do a clinical study -
> get
> 10 participants - each one uses 5 different cardio machines and goes for
> 20
> minutes at a particular heart rate range. Lets say 120 to 135bpm. At the
> end
> of it (done on different days of course) you ask the person to rate how he
> feels - you see Cohen we are well past this ad hoc thing of my opinion vs
> your opinion etc - there are ways to test. So it is all about 'perceived
> effort'. That's it. So on a rate of 1 to 10 - 10 being least perceived
> effort to stay within your THR - rowing would be 3. Cross trainer say 5.
> Cycling 7 Treadmill or walking 9. Swimming 7
> Now that I have sorted out the infamous yankee doodle . . again . . . i
> will go back to molesting sheep.


I never claimed you weren't persistant in your wrongness. Sort of an
admirable trait.

=================
****yankee doodle cops out . . .again


> By the way . . . I seem to remember you had turned vegetarian - never
> thought you would stick - is this for heatlh or ethical reasons (of course
> what ethics would you have??? ha ha ha)
> ****ed off about the cancellation of the dinner - I have secreted 3
> buckets
> of drool since you told me about Chris Ruth. Now you just say 'sorry' it
> is
> cancelled??? Well that is not good enough Cohen . . . surely they have
> something vegetarian - you can have a salad with the tofu- me I go fer the
> steak . . ha ha ha - I'll take mine medium rare - with a ring of bacon
> around it. .

That'll work. I can eat at any steakhouse. Pasta, veggies, potato,
mass quantities of ethanol, all good. I really don't miss meat. And I
hate tofu.

It was a combo of health and ethics. For me...only me...vegetarianism
was healthier. I do NOT recommend it to anyone else. And I decided I
wanted to minimize the amount of death I was personally responsible
for. I hypocritically cause the death of enough fish to get me my fish
oil capsules.

Ruth's Chris Steakhouse awaits...

=====================
**********what does a diet like that do to your weight?
It would play havoc with my blood glucose . . . look at all the carbs
how do you get 100 gms of protein out of pasta and potatoes?
do you eat cheese? eggs?
can your shrink track down the reason for your insanity. perhaps your were
raised by nuns and abused as a child? Digitally raped by a nun? .