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Jason Earl[_2_]
September 16th 10, 05:54 AM
I did some random cleans and presses for a Variety workout yesterday,
but I did not have time to post the workout. Here's what I did today.

* DONE Medium ROP <2010-09-15 Wed>
CLOSED: [2010-09-15 Wed 21:39]
- CLOSING NOTE [2010-09-15 Wed 21:40] \\
Done.
** Plan
- Clean and Press 32kg (1-2) x 5 each hand.
- Medium Swings 24kg for (2 dice) minutes 70-80% effort.
** Actual
- Clean and Press 32kg (1-2) x 5 each hand (5.5 hours).
- Medium Swings 24kg for 5 minutes 100 swings.
** Notes
The cleans and presses went well. I really like that part of the
workout. I felt fresh all day, and the 32kg bell is fun to lift.
I feel like I am really moving something when I lift it.

The swings went well also. Instead of doing a set of swings at the
top of each minute (and then resting), I tried bunching the sets up
a bit more. I did the first set of 20 as per usual, ten in each
hand. I then rested until the timer said 4:05 and did 40 swings.
I then was able to rest for about 45 seconds until the clock said I
had 2:05 left. I actually finished the last 40 swings with 30
seconds left to go, and if it had been a heavy day I might have
been able to get another 5-10 swings in.

It was not, so I stopped.

Steve Freides[_2_]
September 17th 10, 01:54 AM
Jason Earl wrote:
> I did some random cleans and presses for a Variety workout yesterday,
> but I did not have time to post the workout. Here's what I did today.
>
> * DONE Medium ROP <2010-09-15 Wed>
> CLOSED: [2010-09-15 Wed 21:39]
> - CLOSING NOTE [2010-09-15 Wed 21:40] \\
> Done.
> ** Plan
> - Clean and Press 32kg (1-2) x 5 each hand.
> - Medium Swings 24kg for (2 dice) minutes 70-80% effort.
> ** Actual
> - Clean and Press 32kg (1-2) x 5 each hand (5.5 hours).
> - Medium Swings 24kg for 5 minutes 100 swings.
> ** Notes
> The cleans and presses went well. I really like that part of the
> workout. I felt fresh all day, and the 32kg bell is fun to lift.
> I feel like I am really moving something when I lift it.
>
> The swings went well also. Instead of doing a set of swings at the
> top of each minute (and then resting), I tried bunching the sets up
> a bit more. I did the first set of 20 as per usual, ten in each
> hand. I then rested until the timer said 4:05 and did 40 swings.
> I then was able to rest for about 45 seconds until the clock said I
> had 2:05 left. I actually finished the last 40 swings with 30
> seconds left to go, and if it had been a heavy day I might have
> been able to get another 5-10 swings in.
>
> It was not, so I stopped.

Hey, Jason - change of subject. I put up a new web page because I'm
often asked about which Pavel flexibility book to get. If you get a
chance, take a look and tell me if it's at all helpful, please.

http://www.kbnj.com/flexguide.htm

Change of subject again - I was thinking that we might start a "training
week ended ..." thread that all of us could contribute to. Make the
date Sunday, so on this coming Monday, the 20th, you or me could start
a thread entitled "Training Week Ended Sept. 19, 2010" and then we could
each contribute, in a single message, a summary of our training week.

I am following Pavel's "Return of the Kettlebell" program now. It was
something I was especially interested in doing, but it fit with my
wife's needs and schedule, so there are four of us - me, my wife, and
another couple we lift with - doing it. The structure is fairly simple
(although I do _not_ suggest doing it based on my brief summary):

2 weeks of double kettlebell grinds on an ETK-like schedule alternating
with 2 weeks of double kettlebell bell ballistics on a similar schedule.

The grind blocks are mostly kb military press but you finish each ladder
with a set of kb front squats, and you do two high-rep sets of deadlifts
at the end. The explosive blocks are long cycle c&j for me, and snatch
for women.

Everything is with two kettlebells, sometimes same size, sometimes not.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

Existential Angst[_2_]
September 17th 10, 02:36 AM
"Steve Freides" > wrote in message
...
> Jason Earl wrote:
>> I did some random cleans and presses for a Variety workout yesterday,
>> but I did not have time to post the workout. Here's what I did today.
>>
>> * DONE Medium ROP <2010-09-15 Wed>
>> CLOSED: [2010-09-15 Wed 21:39]
>> - CLOSING NOTE [2010-09-15 Wed 21:40] \\
>> Done.
>> ** Plan
>> - Clean and Press 32kg (1-2) x 5 each hand.
>> - Medium Swings 24kg for (2 dice) minutes 70-80% effort.
>> ** Actual
>> - Clean and Press 32kg (1-2) x 5 each hand (5.5 hours).
>> - Medium Swings 24kg for 5 minutes 100 swings.
>> ** Notes
>> The cleans and presses went well. I really like that part of the
>> workout. I felt fresh all day, and the 32kg bell is fun to lift.
>> I feel like I am really moving something when I lift it.
>>
>> The swings went well also. Instead of doing a set of swings at the
>> top of each minute (and then resting), I tried bunching the sets up
>> a bit more. I did the first set of 20 as per usual, ten in each
>> hand. I then rested until the timer said 4:05 and did 40 swings.
>> I then was able to rest for about 45 seconds until the clock said I
>> had 2:05 left. I actually finished the last 40 swings with 30
>> seconds left to go, and if it had been a heavy day I might have
>> been able to get another 5-10 swings in.
>>
>> It was not, so I stopped.
>
> Hey, Jason - change of subject. I put up a new web page because I'm often
> asked about which Pavel flexibility book to get. If you get a chance,
> take a look and tell me if it's at all helpful, please.
>
> http://www.kbnj.com/flexguide.htm
>
> Change of subject again - I was thinking that we might start a "training
> week ended ..." thread that all of us could contribute to. Make the date
> Sunday, so on this coming Monday, the 20th, you or me could start a thread
> entitled "Training Week Ended Sept. 19, 2010" and then we could each
> contribute, in a single message, a summary of our training week.
>
> I am following Pavel's "Return of the Kettlebell" program now. It was
> something I was especially interested in doing, but it fit with my wife's
> needs and schedule, so there are four of us - me, my wife, and another
> couple we lift with - doing it. The structure is fairly simple (although
> I do _not_ suggest doing it based on my brief summary):
>
> 2 weeks of double kettlebell grinds on an ETK-like schedule alternating
> with 2 weeks of double kettlebell bell ballistics on a similar schedule.
>
> The grind blocks are mostly kb military press but you finish each ladder
> with a set of kb front squats, and you do two high-rep sets of deadlifts
> at the end. The explosive blocks are long cycle c&j for me, and snatch
> for women.
>
> Everything is with two kettlebells, sometimes same size, sometimes not.

What happens if you use dumbbells in place of kettlebells? Do the exercises
no longer work?
Just curious.
If perchance the exercises/moves *don't* work with dumbbells, could you
explain why?
--
EA


>
> -S-
> http://www.kbnj.com
>
>

Jason Earl[_2_]
September 17th 10, 06:24 AM
On Thu, Sep 16 2010, Steve Freides wrote:

> Jason Earl wrote:
>> I did some random cleans and presses for a Variety workout yesterday,
>> but I did not have time to post the workout. Here's what I did today.
>>
>> * DONE Medium ROP <2010-09-15 Wed>
>> CLOSED: [2010-09-15 Wed 21:39]
>> - CLOSING NOTE [2010-09-15 Wed 21:40] \\
>> Done.
>> ** Plan
>> - Clean and Press 32kg (1-2) x 5 each hand.
>> - Medium Swings 24kg for (2 dice) minutes 70-80% effort.
>> ** Actual
>> - Clean and Press 32kg (1-2) x 5 each hand (5.5 hours).
>> - Medium Swings 24kg for 5 minutes 100 swings.
>> ** Notes
>> The cleans and presses went well. I really like that part of the
>> workout. I felt fresh all day, and the 32kg bell is fun to lift.
>> I feel like I am really moving something when I lift it.
>>
>> The swings went well also. Instead of doing a set of swings at the
>> top of each minute (and then resting), I tried bunching the sets up
>> a bit more. I did the first set of 20 as per usual, ten in each
>> hand. I then rested until the timer said 4:05 and did 40 swings.
>> I then was able to rest for about 45 seconds until the clock said I
>> had 2:05 left. I actually finished the last 40 swings with 30
>> seconds left to go, and if it had been a heavy day I might have
>> been able to get another 5-10 swings in.
>>
>> It was not, so I stopped.
>
> Hey, Jason - change of subject. I put up a new web page because I'm
> often asked about which Pavel flexibility book to get. If you get a
> chance, take a look and tell me if it's at all helpful, please.
>
> http://www.kbnj.com/flexguide.htm

I appreciate that. Heck, I am pretty sure that if you can get Google's
usenet search to work that you'll find a post where I ask that exact
question.

I borrowed a copy of /Relax into Stretch/ some years back and I really
liked it. I never really did manage to work it into my schedule
though.

I would like to though. I have always been pretty flexible, and I have
noticed that I am much tighter than I remember being. I really think
that mobility is something that I probably should work at, but it is
hard to know precisely what to do.

> Change of subject again - I was thinking that we might start a "training
> week ended ..." thread that all of us could contribute to. Make the
> date Sunday, so on this coming Monday, the 20th, you or me could start
> a thread entitled "Training Week Ended Sept. 19, 2010" and then we could
> each contribute, in a single message, a summary of our training week.

OK, I can do that. Or if someone else beats me to it (I tend to workout
quite late, and I am on Mountain time) I will post in their thread. I
have found posting my workouts to be very helpful, and I want to
continue to do so. I will admit that I think it would be even better if
more people were sharing what they were up to.

Not only would this give me ideas as to what to do next (the end of
October gets closer every day), but I think that it could motivate all
of us to push a little harder.

For example, I found RP's workout log to be quite inspiring. In fact, I
have often found inspiration in what other people have done. I
originally pushed for a double body weight deadlift after reading about
your deadlifting competition, and EA's 150 swings in five minutes has
definitely been an incentive to push harder.

> I am following Pavel's "Return of the Kettlebell" program now. It was
> something I was especially interested in doing, but it fit with my
> wife's needs and schedule, so there are four of us - me, my wife, and
> another couple we lift with - doing it. The structure is fairly
> simple (although I do _not_ suggest doing it based on my brief
> summary):

/Power to the People/ was a simple enough idea that I felt like I could
use it as a workout template after reading it over once. However, now I
wished I owned it, as I would like to go back over some of the many
variations. I've probably read most of /Enter the Kettlebell/ five
times--I even have read "The Making of a Kettlebell" twice. I have
referred to it for details on any number of occasions. At this point I
can not imagine doing a Pavel workout without picking up a copy of the
book. They are widely available used, and Pavel is an entertaining
writer.

There is little chance that I am going to try and do a workout
(especially one that requires kettlebell pairs) after reading just a
paragraph or two.

> 2 weeks of double kettlebell grinds on an ETK-like schedule
> alternating with 2 weeks of double kettlebell bell ballistics on a
> similar schedule.
>
> The grind blocks are mostly kb military press but you finish each
> ladder with a set of kb front squats, and you do two high-rep sets of
> deadlifts at the end. The explosive blocks are long cycle c&j for me,
> and snatch for women.
>
> Everything is with two kettlebells, sometimes same size, sometimes
> not.

I think that I might have to draw the line at two kettlebells. I have
resigned myself to owning a kettlebell in half pood increments between
24kg and 40kg (Play it Again Sports actually stocks a 48kg kettlebell,
but that just seems like madness right now). That's one more over $100
exercise purchase. Doubling up just seems extravagant.

Do not get me wrong. I am sure the workouts are awesome, but I have two
perfectly good Olympic bars for two-handed work. Not to mention the
fact that my power rack is calling to me.

Jason

Jason Earl[_2_]
September 17th 10, 06:25 AM
* DONE Variety ROP <2010-09-16 Thu>
CLOSED: [2010-09-16 Thu 22:32]
- CLOSING NOTE [2010-09-16 Thu 22:32] \\
Done.
** Plan
- Turkish getups 32kg 5 singles per hand.
** Actual
- Turkish getups 32kg 5 singles per hand.
** Notes
"Enter The Kettlebell" says I should be doing these with a
kettlebell a size heavier than the one I am using for ladders.
However, I do not think that I could do even one get up with the
32kg bell, much less a 40kg bell.

However, I am clearly getting better at these. Perhaps I will do
more next week.

David[_11_]
September 17th 10, 09:35 AM
"Existential Angst" > wrote in message
...
> "Steve Freides" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Jason Earl wrote:
>>> I did some random cleans and presses for a Variety workout yesterday,
>>> but I did not have time to post the workout. Here's what I did today.
>>>
>>> * DONE Medium ROP <2010-09-15 Wed>
>>> CLOSED: [2010-09-15 Wed 21:39]
>>> - CLOSING NOTE [2010-09-15 Wed 21:40] \\
>>> Done.
>>> ** Plan
>>> - Clean and Press 32kg (1-2) x 5 each hand.
>>> - Medium Swings 24kg for (2 dice) minutes 70-80% effort.
>>> ** Actual
>>> - Clean and Press 32kg (1-2) x 5 each hand (5.5 hours).
>>> - Medium Swings 24kg for 5 minutes 100 swings.
>>> ** Notes
>>> The cleans and presses went well. I really like that part of the
>>> workout. I felt fresh all day, and the 32kg bell is fun to lift.
>>> I feel like I am really moving something when I lift it.
>>>
>>> The swings went well also. Instead of doing a set of swings at the
>>> top of each minute (and then resting), I tried bunching the sets up
>>> a bit more. I did the first set of 20 as per usual, ten in each
>>> hand. I then rested until the timer said 4:05 and did 40 swings.
>>> I then was able to rest for about 45 seconds until the clock said I
>>> had 2:05 left. I actually finished the last 40 swings with 30
>>> seconds left to go, and if it had been a heavy day I might have
>>> been able to get another 5-10 swings in.
>>>
>>> It was not, so I stopped.
>>
>> Hey, Jason - change of subject. I put up a new web page because I'm
>> often asked about which Pavel flexibility book to get. If you get a
>> chance, take a look and tell me if it's at all helpful, please.
>>
>> http://www.kbnj.com/flexguide.htm
>>
>> Change of subject again - I was thinking that we might start a "training
>> week ended ..." thread that all of us could contribute to. Make the date
>> Sunday, so on this coming Monday, the 20th, you or me could start a
>> thread entitled "Training Week Ended Sept. 19, 2010" and then we could
>> each contribute, in a single message, a summary of our training week.
>>
>> I am following Pavel's "Return of the Kettlebell" program now. It was
>> something I was especially interested in doing, but it fit with my wife's
>> needs and schedule, so there are four of us - me, my wife, and another
>> couple we lift with - doing it. The structure is fairly simple (although
>> I do _not_ suggest doing it based on my brief summary):
>>
>> 2 weeks of double kettlebell grinds on an ETK-like schedule alternating
>> with 2 weeks of double kettlebell bell ballistics on a similar schedule.
>>
>> The grind blocks are mostly kb military press but you finish each ladder
>> with a set of kb front squats, and you do two high-rep sets of deadlifts
>> at the end. The explosive blocks are long cycle c&j for me, and snatch
>> for women.
>>
>> Everything is with two kettlebells, sometimes same size, sometimes not.
>
> What happens if you use dumbbells in place of kettlebells? Do the
> exercises no longer work?
> Just curious.
> If perchance the exercises/moves *don't* work with dumbbells, could you
> explain why?
> --
> EA
>
The main reason dumbells dont work is that our friends dont make any money
on dumbells

>
>>
>> -S-
>> http://www.kbnj.com
>>
>>
>
>

Existential Angst[_2_]
September 17th 10, 12:51 PM
"David" > wrote in message
ond.com...
>
> "Existential Angst" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Steve Freides" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Jason Earl wrote:
>>>> I did some random cleans and presses for a Variety workout yesterday,
>>>> but I did not have time to post the workout. Here's what I did today.
>>>>
>>>> * DONE Medium ROP <2010-09-15 Wed>
>>>> CLOSED: [2010-09-15 Wed 21:39]
>>>> - CLOSING NOTE [2010-09-15 Wed 21:40] \\
>>>> Done.
>>>> ** Plan
>>>> - Clean and Press 32kg (1-2) x 5 each hand.
>>>> - Medium Swings 24kg for (2 dice) minutes 70-80% effort.
>>>> ** Actual
>>>> - Clean and Press 32kg (1-2) x 5 each hand (5.5 hours).
>>>> - Medium Swings 24kg for 5 minutes 100 swings.
>>>> ** Notes
>>>> The cleans and presses went well. I really like that part of the
>>>> workout. I felt fresh all day, and the 32kg bell is fun to lift.
>>>> I feel like I am really moving something when I lift it.
>>>>
>>>> The swings went well also. Instead of doing a set of swings at the
>>>> top of each minute (and then resting), I tried bunching the sets up
>>>> a bit more. I did the first set of 20 as per usual, ten in each
>>>> hand. I then rested until the timer said 4:05 and did 40 swings.
>>>> I then was able to rest for about 45 seconds until the clock said I
>>>> had 2:05 left. I actually finished the last 40 swings with 30
>>>> seconds left to go, and if it had been a heavy day I might have
>>>> been able to get another 5-10 swings in.
>>>>
>>>> It was not, so I stopped.
>>>
>>> Hey, Jason - change of subject. I put up a new web page because I'm
>>> often asked about which Pavel flexibility book to get. If you get a
>>> chance, take a look and tell me if it's at all helpful, please.
>>>
>>> http://www.kbnj.com/flexguide.htm
>>>
>>> Change of subject again - I was thinking that we might start a "training
>>> week ended ..." thread that all of us could contribute to. Make the
>>> date Sunday, so on this coming Monday, the 20th, you or me could start a
>>> thread entitled "Training Week Ended Sept. 19, 2010" and then we could
>>> each contribute, in a single message, a summary of our training week.
>>>
>>> I am following Pavel's "Return of the Kettlebell" program now. It was
>>> something I was especially interested in doing, but it fit with my
>>> wife's needs and schedule, so there are four of us - me, my wife, and
>>> another couple we lift with - doing it. The structure is fairly simple
>>> (although I do _not_ suggest doing it based on my brief summary):
>>>
>>> 2 weeks of double kettlebell grinds on an ETK-like schedule alternating
>>> with 2 weeks of double kettlebell bell ballistics on a similar schedule.
>>>
>>> The grind blocks are mostly kb military press but you finish each ladder
>>> with a set of kb front squats, and you do two high-rep sets of deadlifts
>>> at the end. The explosive blocks are long cycle c&j for me, and snatch
>>> for women.
>>>
>>> Everything is with two kettlebells, sometimes same size, sometimes not.
>>
>> What happens if you use dumbbells in place of kettlebells? Do the
>> exercises no longer work?
>> Just curious.
>> If perchance the exercises/moves *don't* work with dumbbells, could you
>> explain why?
>> --
>> EA
>>
> The main reason dumbells dont work is that our friends dont make any money
> on dumbells

Dayum.... I axed nice, too, you figgered he'd give me something of an
answer, irrational as it might have been. <sigh>
--
EA



>
>>
>>>
>>> -S-
>>> http://www.kbnj.com
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Steve Freides[_2_]
September 17th 10, 02:00 PM
Jason Earl wrote:
> * DONE Variety ROP <2010-09-16 Thu>
> CLOSED: [2010-09-16 Thu 22:32]
> - CLOSING NOTE [2010-09-16 Thu 22:32] \\
> Done.
> ** Plan
> - Turkish getups 32kg 5 singles per hand.
> ** Actual
> - Turkish getups 32kg 5 singles per hand.
> ** Notes
> "Enter The Kettlebell" says I should be doing these with a
> kettlebell a size heavier than the one I am using for ladders.
> However, I do not think that I could do even one get up with the
> 32kg bell, much less a 40kg bell.
>
> However, I am clearly getting better at these. Perhaps I will do
> more next week.

Being able to do a getup with a bell you can't press yet is a good way
to get started on pressing the heavier bell. Probably good for you to
spend some time doing 32 kg getups - above you said you don't think you
can do it even once, but above that you say you did 5 singles per hand.
I'm confused...

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

Jason Earl[_2_]
September 17th 10, 03:07 PM
On Fri, Sep 17 2010, Steve Freides wrote:

> Jason Earl wrote:
>> * DONE Variety ROP <2010-09-16 Thu>
>> CLOSED: [2010-09-16 Thu 22:32]
>> - CLOSING NOTE [2010-09-16 Thu 22:32] \\
>> Done.
>> ** Plan
>> - Turkish getups 32kg 5 singles per hand.
>> ** Actual
>> - Turkish getups 32kg 5 singles per hand.
>> ** Notes
>> "Enter The Kettlebell" says I should be doing these with a
>> kettlebell a size heavier than the one I am using for ladders.
>> However, I do not think that I could do even one get up with the
>> 32kg bell, much less a 40kg bell.
>>
>> However, I am clearly getting better at these. Perhaps I will do
>> more next week.
>
> Being able to do a getup with a bell you can't press yet is a good way
> to get started on pressing the heavier bell. Probably good for you to
> spend some time doing 32 kg getups - above you said you don't think you
> can do it even once, but above that you say you did 5 singles per hand.
> I'm confused...

No, I am confused, I did getups with the 24kg bell. The first time I
did getups I had planned to use the 32kg bell and then did not, and I
have been cutting and pasting the wrong weight for the last two weeks.

So, to clarify, my workout on the 2nd was correct, my workouts on the
9th and 16th were wrong. On those days I planned to lift the 24kg bell
and that's what I actually lifted.

Although if I am supposed to be able to do getups with the heavier bell
then I will give it another try. I think that it is possible I just
needed some more practice.

Thanks for the catch.

Jason

Steve Freides[_2_]
September 17th 10, 03:37 PM
Jason Earl wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 17 2010, Steve Freides wrote:
>
>> Jason Earl wrote:
>>> * DONE Variety ROP <2010-09-16 Thu>
>>> CLOSED: [2010-09-16 Thu 22:32]
>>> - CLOSING NOTE [2010-09-16 Thu 22:32] \\
>>> Done.
>>> ** Plan
>>> - Turkish getups 32kg 5 singles per hand.
>>> ** Actual
>>> - Turkish getups 32kg 5 singles per hand.
>>> ** Notes
>>> "Enter The Kettlebell" says I should be doing these with a
>>> kettlebell a size heavier than the one I am using for ladders.
>>> However, I do not think that I could do even one get up with the
>>> 32kg bell, much less a 40kg bell.
>>>
>>> However, I am clearly getting better at these. Perhaps I will do
>>> more next week.
>>
>> Being able to do a getup with a bell you can't press yet is a good
>> way to get started on pressing the heavier bell. Probably good for
>> you to spend some time doing 32 kg getups - above you said you don't
>> think you can do it even once, but above that you say you did 5
>> singles per hand. I'm confused...
>
> No, I am confused, I did getups with the 24kg bell. The first time I
> did getups I had planned to use the 32kg bell and then did not, and I
> have been cutting and pasting the wrong weight for the last two weeks.
>
> So, to clarify, my workout on the 2nd was correct, my workouts on the
> 9th and 16th were wrong. On those days I planned to lift the 24kg
> bell and that's what I actually lifted.
>
> Although if I am supposed to be able to do getups with the heavier
> bell then I will give it another try. I think that it is possible I
> just needed some more practice.
>
> Thanks for the catch.
>
> Jason

One way to do this for you might be, if you are currently doing
alternating singles each side, to do two or three on the same side with
the 24 kg - when you're back on the ground with the bell at arms length,
just head up again for another rep.

Another, similar approach that I like is to do something at the top of
the getup, e.g., a windmill (or a few windmills), an overhead squat,
even a snatch or three before you head back down. The idea is that
you'll be spending more time stabilizing the lighter weight on your way
to getting strong enough to stabilize the heavier one just for long
enough to do a single getup.

And yet another approach is to start the getup from the top and just
work back down to the floor - similar to learning to do your first
pullup by jumping to the top and working only the negative.

It would helpful to know where you're getting stopped on your 32 kg
getup - for me, if I can get to my elbow, I can finish, it's that first
part that's the toughest.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

Jason Earl[_2_]
September 17th 10, 07:31 PM
On Fri, Sep 17 2010, Steve Freides wrote:

> Jason Earl wrote:
>> On Fri, Sep 17 2010, Steve Freides wrote:
>>
>>> Jason Earl wrote:
>>>> * DONE Variety ROP <2010-09-16 Thu>
>>>> CLOSED: [2010-09-16 Thu 22:32]
>>>> - CLOSING NOTE [2010-09-16 Thu 22:32] \\
>>>> Done.
>>>> ** Plan
>>>> - Turkish getups 32kg 5 singles per hand.
>>>> ** Actual
>>>> - Turkish getups 32kg 5 singles per hand.
>>>> ** Notes
>>>> "Enter The Kettlebell" says I should be doing these with a
>>>> kettlebell a size heavier than the one I am using for ladders.
>>>> However, I do not think that I could do even one get up with the
>>>> 32kg bell, much less a 40kg bell.
>>>>
>>>> However, I am clearly getting better at these. Perhaps I will do
>>>> more next week.
>>>
>>> Being able to do a getup with a bell you can't press yet is a good
>>> way to get started on pressing the heavier bell. Probably good for
>>> you to spend some time doing 32 kg getups - above you said you don't
>>> think you can do it even once, but above that you say you did 5
>>> singles per hand. I'm confused...
>>
>> No, I am confused, I did getups with the 24kg bell. The first time I
>> did getups I had planned to use the 32kg bell and then did not, and I
>> have been cutting and pasting the wrong weight for the last two weeks.
>>
>> So, to clarify, my workout on the 2nd was correct, my workouts on the
>> 9th and 16th were wrong. On those days I planned to lift the 24kg
>> bell and that's what I actually lifted.
>>
>> Although if I am supposed to be able to do getups with the heavier
>> bell then I will give it another try. I think that it is possible I
>> just needed some more practice.
>>
>> Thanks for the catch.
>>
>> Jason
>
> One way to do this for you might be, if you are currently doing
> alternating singles each side, to do two or three on the same side
> with the 24 kg - when you're back on the ground with the bell at arms
> length, just head up again for another rep.
>
> Another, similar approach that I like is to do something at the top of
> the getup, e.g., a windmill (or a few windmills), an overhead squat,
> even a snatch or three before you head back down. The idea is that
> you'll be spending more time stabilizing the lighter weight on your
> way to getting strong enough to stabilize the heavier one just for
> long enough to do a single getup.

To be honest, I think that I just needed some practice doing getups. I
probably should have been a good comrade and started with the program
minimum, but I didn't. That means that I have never really done getups.

> And yet another approach is to start the getup from the top and just
> work back down to the floor - similar to learning to do your first
> pullup by jumping to the top and working only the negative.
>
> It would helpful to know where you're getting stopped on your 32 kg
> getup - for me, if I can get to my elbow, I can finish, it's that
> first part that's the toughest.

Yeah, that's where I get stuck. What happened is that I expected the
getup to be easy. After all, the book talks about using a heavier
kettlebell than the one you do for ladders. So I laid down on the
ground and pressed the kettlebell up and my "Holy Crap" meter went off.

Jason

Jim Janney[_2_]
September 17th 10, 07:51 PM
Jason Earl > writes:

> On Fri, Sep 17 2010, Steve Freides wrote:
>
>> Jason Earl wrote:
>>> On Fri, Sep 17 2010, Steve Freides wrote:
>>>
>>>> Jason Earl wrote:
>>>>> * DONE Variety ROP <2010-09-16 Thu>
>>>>> CLOSED: [2010-09-16 Thu 22:32]
>>>>> - CLOSING NOTE [2010-09-16 Thu 22:32] \\
>>>>> Done.
>>>>> ** Plan
>>>>> - Turkish getups 32kg 5 singles per hand.
>>>>> ** Actual
>>>>> - Turkish getups 32kg 5 singles per hand.
>>>>> ** Notes
>>>>> "Enter The Kettlebell" says I should be doing these with a
>>>>> kettlebell a size heavier than the one I am using for ladders.
>>>>> However, I do not think that I could do even one get up with the
>>>>> 32kg bell, much less a 40kg bell.
>>>>>
>>>>> However, I am clearly getting better at these. Perhaps I will do
>>>>> more next week.
>>>>
>>>> Being able to do a getup with a bell you can't press yet is a good
>>>> way to get started on pressing the heavier bell. Probably good for
>>>> you to spend some time doing 32 kg getups - above you said you don't
>>>> think you can do it even once, but above that you say you did 5
>>>> singles per hand. I'm confused...
>>>
>>> No, I am confused, I did getups with the 24kg bell. The first time I
>>> did getups I had planned to use the 32kg bell and then did not, and I
>>> have been cutting and pasting the wrong weight for the last two weeks.
>>>
>>> So, to clarify, my workout on the 2nd was correct, my workouts on the
>>> 9th and 16th were wrong. On those days I planned to lift the 24kg
>>> bell and that's what I actually lifted.
>>>
>>> Although if I am supposed to be able to do getups with the heavier
>>> bell then I will give it another try. I think that it is possible I
>>> just needed some more practice.
>>>
>>> Thanks for the catch.
>>>
>>> Jason
>>
>> One way to do this for you might be, if you are currently doing
>> alternating singles each side, to do two or three on the same side
>> with the 24 kg - when you're back on the ground with the bell at arms
>> length, just head up again for another rep.
>>
>> Another, similar approach that I like is to do something at the top of
>> the getup, e.g., a windmill (or a few windmills), an overhead squat,
>> even a snatch or three before you head back down. The idea is that
>> you'll be spending more time stabilizing the lighter weight on your
>> way to getting strong enough to stabilize the heavier one just for
>> long enough to do a single getup.
>
> To be honest, I think that I just needed some practice doing getups. I
> probably should have been a good comrade and started with the program
> minimum, but I didn't. That means that I have never really done getups.
>
>> And yet another approach is to start the getup from the top and just
>> work back down to the floor - similar to learning to do your first
>> pullup by jumping to the top and working only the negative.
>>
>> It would helpful to know where you're getting stopped on your 32 kg
>> getup - for me, if I can get to my elbow, I can finish, it's that
>> first part that's the toughest.
>
> Yeah, that's where I get stuck. What happened is that I expected the
> getup to be easy. After all, the book talks about using a heavier
> kettlebell than the one you do for ladders. So I laid down on the
> ground and pressed the kettlebell up and my "Holy Crap" meter went off.

Getups are my favorite core exercise, closely followed by one-armed
presses. Crunches don't even make the list.

--
Jim Janney

Jason Earl[_2_]
September 17th 10, 07:53 PM
On Fri, Sep 17 2010, Existential Angst wrote:

> "David" > wrote in message
> ond.com...
>>
>> "Existential Angst" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> "Steve Freides" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> Jason Earl wrote:
>>>>> I did some random cleans and presses for a Variety workout yesterday,
>>>>> but I did not have time to post the workout. Here's what I did today.
>>>>>
>>>>> * DONE Medium ROP <2010-09-15 Wed>
>>>>> CLOSED: [2010-09-15 Wed 21:39]
>>>>> - CLOSING NOTE [2010-09-15 Wed 21:40] \\
>>>>> Done.
>>>>> ** Plan
>>>>> - Clean and Press 32kg (1-2) x 5 each hand.
>>>>> - Medium Swings 24kg for (2 dice) minutes 70-80% effort.
>>>>> ** Actual
>>>>> - Clean and Press 32kg (1-2) x 5 each hand (5.5 hours).
>>>>> - Medium Swings 24kg for 5 minutes 100 swings.
>>>>> ** Notes
>>>>> The cleans and presses went well. I really like that part of the
>>>>> workout. I felt fresh all day, and the 32kg bell is fun to lift.
>>>>> I feel like I am really moving something when I lift it.
>>>>>
>>>>> The swings went well also. Instead of doing a set of swings at the
>>>>> top of each minute (and then resting), I tried bunching the sets up
>>>>> a bit more. I did the first set of 20 as per usual, ten in each
>>>>> hand. I then rested until the timer said 4:05 and did 40 swings.
>>>>> I then was able to rest for about 45 seconds until the clock said I
>>>>> had 2:05 left. I actually finished the last 40 swings with 30
>>>>> seconds left to go, and if it had been a heavy day I might have
>>>>> been able to get another 5-10 swings in.
>>>>>
>>>>> It was not, so I stopped.
>>>>
>>>> Hey, Jason - change of subject. I put up a new web page because I'm
>>>> often asked about which Pavel flexibility book to get. If you get a
>>>> chance, take a look and tell me if it's at all helpful, please.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.kbnj.com/flexguide.htm
>>>>
>>>> Change of subject again - I was thinking that we might start a "training
>>>> week ended ..." thread that all of us could contribute to. Make the
>>>> date Sunday, so on this coming Monday, the 20th, you or me could start a
>>>> thread entitled "Training Week Ended Sept. 19, 2010" and then we could
>>>> each contribute, in a single message, a summary of our training week.
>>>>
>>>> I am following Pavel's "Return of the Kettlebell" program now. It was
>>>> something I was especially interested in doing, but it fit with my
>>>> wife's needs and schedule, so there are four of us - me, my wife, and
>>>> another couple we lift with - doing it. The structure is fairly simple
>>>> (although I do _not_ suggest doing it based on my brief summary):
>>>>
>>>> 2 weeks of double kettlebell grinds on an ETK-like schedule alternating
>>>> with 2 weeks of double kettlebell bell ballistics on a similar schedule.
>>>>
>>>> The grind blocks are mostly kb military press but you finish each ladder
>>>> with a set of kb front squats, and you do two high-rep sets of deadlifts
>>>> at the end. The explosive blocks are long cycle c&j for me, and snatch
>>>> for women.
>>>>
>>>> Everything is with two kettlebells, sometimes same size, sometimes not.
>>>
>>> What happens if you use dumbbells in place of kettlebells? Do the
>>> exercises no longer work?
>>> Just curious.
>>> If perchance the exercises/moves *don't* work with dumbbells, could you
>>> explain why?
>>> --
>>> EA
>>>
>> The main reason dumbells dont work is that our friends dont make any
>> money on dumbells
>
> Dayum.... I axed nice, too, you figgered he'd give me something of an
> answer, irrational as it might have been. <sigh>

You are like a broken record. We have been over this a million times.

Nothing happens if you use a dumbbell instead of a kettlebell. No one
comes to your house and confiscates your lifting chalk. You might even
be more comfortable swinging, snatching and pressing a dumbbell, in
which case I highly recommend doing a workout similar to what I am doing
except with a dumbbell. It has been quite a bit of fun. I wouldn't
recommend doing it year round, but I will probably spend three months of
the year from now on working out in this fashion. I'm feeling good, and
looking better (though I have sort of bottomed out on my weight loss, I
probably need to concentrate on eating less).

Jason

Jason Earl[_2_]
September 17th 10, 08:01 PM
On Fri, Sep 17 2010, Jim Janney wrote:
> Jason Earl > writes:
>
>> On Fri, Sep 17 2010, Steve Freides wrote:

[...]

>>> It would helpful to know where you're getting stopped on your 32 kg
>>> getup - for me, if I can get to my elbow, I can finish, it's that
>>> first part that's the toughest.
>>
>> Yeah, that's where I get stuck. What happened is that I expected the
>> getup to be easy. After all, the book talks about using a heavier
>> kettlebell than the one you do for ladders. So I laid down on the
>> ground and pressed the kettlebell up and my "Holy Crap" meter went
>> off.
>
> Getups are my favorite core exercise, closely followed by one-armed
> presses. Crunches don't even make the list.

I am starting to see why getups made /Enter the Kettlebell/. As I said
the first time I did them, I found them to be surprisingly hard, and
they certainly made my shoulder feel like good things were happening.

What's more, they have clearly identified one of my weak areas. I am
hoping that with a bit of practice I will quickly be able to bring these
up. If not, then I suppose I'll just have to do a lot of practice,
because clearly this is something I need to address.

By the way, I checked with ETK and the choice of when to move up in the
swings is apparently up to the lifter. So I am going to try swings with
the heavy kettlebell this Saturday and see how it goes. Thanks for the
advice, I appreciate it. It might sound silly, but it never occurred to
me that I might want to swing the heavier kettlebell.

Jason

David[_11_]
September 17th 10, 08:21 PM
"Jason Earl" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, Sep 17 2010, Existential Angst wrote:
>
>> "David" > wrote in message
>> ond.com...
>>>
>>> "Existential Angst" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> "Steve Freides" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> Jason Earl wrote:
>>>>>> I did some random cleans and presses for a Variety workout yesterday,
>>>>>> but I did not have time to post the workout. Here's what I did
>>>>>> today.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> * DONE Medium ROP <2010-09-15 Wed>
>>>>>> CLOSED: [2010-09-15 Wed 21:39]
>>>>>> - CLOSING NOTE [2010-09-15 Wed 21:40] \\
>>>>>> Done.
>>>>>> ** Plan
>>>>>> - Clean and Press 32kg (1-2) x 5 each hand.
>>>>>> - Medium Swings 24kg for (2 dice) minutes 70-80% effort.
>>>>>> ** Actual
>>>>>> - Clean and Press 32kg (1-2) x 5 each hand (5.5 hours).
>>>>>> - Medium Swings 24kg for 5 minutes 100 swings.
>>>>>> ** Notes
>>>>>> The cleans and presses went well. I really like that part of the
>>>>>> workout. I felt fresh all day, and the 32kg bell is fun to lift.
>>>>>> I feel like I am really moving something when I lift it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The swings went well also. Instead of doing a set of swings at the
>>>>>> top of each minute (and then resting), I tried bunching the sets up
>>>>>> a bit more. I did the first set of 20 as per usual, ten in each
>>>>>> hand. I then rested until the timer said 4:05 and did 40 swings.
>>>>>> I then was able to rest for about 45 seconds until the clock said I
>>>>>> had 2:05 left. I actually finished the last 40 swings with 30
>>>>>> seconds left to go, and if it had been a heavy day I might have
>>>>>> been able to get another 5-10 swings in.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It was not, so I stopped.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hey, Jason - change of subject. I put up a new web page because I'm
>>>>> often asked about which Pavel flexibility book to get. If you get a
>>>>> chance, take a look and tell me if it's at all helpful, please.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.kbnj.com/flexguide.htm
>>>>>
>>>>> Change of subject again - I was thinking that we might start a
>>>>> "training
>>>>> week ended ..." thread that all of us could contribute to. Make the
>>>>> date Sunday, so on this coming Monday, the 20th, you or me could start
>>>>> a
>>>>> thread entitled "Training Week Ended Sept. 19, 2010" and then we could
>>>>> each contribute, in a single message, a summary of our training week.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am following Pavel's "Return of the Kettlebell" program now. It was
>>>>> something I was especially interested in doing, but it fit with my
>>>>> wife's needs and schedule, so there are four of us - me, my wife, and
>>>>> another couple we lift with - doing it. The structure is fairly
>>>>> simple
>>>>> (although I do _not_ suggest doing it based on my brief summary):
>>>>>
>>>>> 2 weeks of double kettlebell grinds on an ETK-like schedule
>>>>> alternating
>>>>> with 2 weeks of double kettlebell bell ballistics on a similar
>>>>> schedule.
>>>>>
>>>>> The grind blocks are mostly kb military press but you finish each
>>>>> ladder
>>>>> with a set of kb front squats, and you do two high-rep sets of
>>>>> deadlifts
>>>>> at the end. The explosive blocks are long cycle c&j for me, and
>>>>> snatch
>>>>> for women.
>>>>>
>>>>> Everything is with two kettlebells, sometimes same size, sometimes
>>>>> not.
>>>>
>>>> What happens if you use dumbbells in place of kettlebells? Do the
>>>> exercises no longer work?
>>>> Just curious.
>>>> If perchance the exercises/moves *don't* work with dumbbells, could you
>>>> explain why?
>>>> --
>>>> EA
>>>>
>>> The main reason dumbells dont work is that our friends dont make any
>>> money on dumbells
>>
>> Dayum.... I axed nice, too, you figgered he'd give me something of an
>> answer, irrational as it might have been. <sigh>
>
> You are like a broken record. We have been over this a million times.
>
> Nothing happens if you use a dumbbell instead of a kettlebell. No one
> comes to your house and confiscates your lifting chalk. You might even
> be more comfortable swinging, snatching and pressing a dumbbell, in
> which case I highly recommend doing a workout similar to what I am doing
> except with a dumbbell. It has been quite a bit of fun. I wouldn't
> recommend doing it year round, but I will probably spend three months of
> the year from now on working out in this fashion. I'm feeling good, and
> looking better (though I have sort of bottomed out on my weight loss, I
> probably need to concentrate on eating less).

I put a much bigger value on incrementation that you do - for goal setting
, to me., incrementation is everything. That means 5%. So if I am swinging
24 # I want to swing 25# tomorrow or next week - I dont want to swing 32# as
my next goal - i.e. 25% - that is reidiculous and just because you did it
and happy, that doesnt make it right. - If you make your next goal something
dumb it would affect your motivation and it doesnt make sense from a
physiological point of view. It is not unlike losing weight. You weight 210#
now. Tomorrow you want to be 209. How would you feel if your scale doesnt
register your weight lower than 210 until you get to 188#?
>
> Jason

David[_11_]
September 17th 10, 08:24 PM
"Existential Angst" > wrote in message
...
> "David" > wrote in message
> ond.com...
>>
>> "Existential Angst" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> "Steve Freides" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> Jason Earl wrote:
>>>>> I did some random cleans and presses for a Variety workout yesterday,
>>>>> but I did not have time to post the workout. Here's what I did today.
>>>>>
>>>>> * DONE Medium ROP <2010-09-15 Wed>
>>>>> CLOSED: [2010-09-15 Wed 21:39]
>>>>> - CLOSING NOTE [2010-09-15 Wed 21:40] \\
>>>>> Done.
>>>>> ** Plan
>>>>> - Clean and Press 32kg (1-2) x 5 each hand.
>>>>> - Medium Swings 24kg for (2 dice) minutes 70-80% effort.
>>>>> ** Actual
>>>>> - Clean and Press 32kg (1-2) x 5 each hand (5.5 hours).
>>>>> - Medium Swings 24kg for 5 minutes 100 swings.
>>>>> ** Notes
>>>>> The cleans and presses went well. I really like that part of the
>>>>> workout. I felt fresh all day, and the 32kg bell is fun to lift.
>>>>> I feel like I am really moving something when I lift it.
>>>>>
>>>>> The swings went well also. Instead of doing a set of swings at the
>>>>> top of each minute (and then resting), I tried bunching the sets up
>>>>> a bit more. I did the first set of 20 as per usual, ten in each
>>>>> hand. I then rested until the timer said 4:05 and did 40 swings.
>>>>> I then was able to rest for about 45 seconds until the clock said I
>>>>> had 2:05 left. I actually finished the last 40 swings with 30
>>>>> seconds left to go, and if it had been a heavy day I might have
>>>>> been able to get another 5-10 swings in.
>>>>>
>>>>> It was not, so I stopped.
>>>>
>>>> Hey, Jason - change of subject. I put up a new web page because I'm
>>>> often asked about which Pavel flexibility book to get. If you get a
>>>> chance, take a look and tell me if it's at all helpful, please.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.kbnj.com/flexguide.htm
>>>>
>>>> Change of subject again - I was thinking that we might start a
>>>> "training week ended ..." thread that all of us could contribute to.
>>>> Make the date Sunday, so on this coming Monday, the 20th, you or me
>>>> could start a thread entitled "Training Week Ended Sept. 19, 2010" and
>>>> then we could each contribute, in a single message, a summary of our
>>>> training week.
>>>>
>>>> I am following Pavel's "Return of the Kettlebell" program now. It was
>>>> something I was especially interested in doing, but it fit with my
>>>> wife's needs and schedule, so there are four of us - me, my wife, and
>>>> another couple we lift with - doing it. The structure is fairly simple
>>>> (although I do _not_ suggest doing it based on my brief summary):
>>>>
>>>> 2 weeks of double kettlebell grinds on an ETK-like schedule alternating
>>>> with 2 weeks of double kettlebell bell ballistics on a similar
>>>> schedule.
>>>>
>>>> The grind blocks are mostly kb military press but you finish each
>>>> ladder with a set of kb front squats, and you do two high-rep sets of
>>>> deadlifts at the end. The explosive blocks are long cycle c&j for me,
>>>> and snatch for women.
>>>>
>>>> Everything is with two kettlebells, sometimes same size, sometimes not.
>>>
>>> What happens if you use dumbbells in place of kettlebells? Do the
>>> exercises no longer work?
>>> Just curious.
>>> If perchance the exercises/moves *don't* work with dumbbells, could you
>>> explain why?
>>> --
>>> EA
>>>
>> The main reason dumbells dont work is that our friends dont make any
>> money on dumbells
>
> Dayum.... I axed nice, too, you figgered he'd give me something of an
> answer, irrational as it might have been. <sigh>

Reminds me of the local pastor here - whenever he gets a curly question he
says "if it is in the bible it must be true - have faith my son" (just swap
pavel for bible)
> --
> EA
>
>
>
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> -S-
>>>> http://www.kbnj.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

David[_11_]
September 17th 10, 08:31 PM
"David" > wrote in message
nd.com...
>
> "Jason Earl" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Fri, Sep 17 2010, Existential Angst wrote:
>>
>>> "David" > wrote in message
>>> ond.com...
>>>>
>>>> "Existential Angst" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> "Steve Freides" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> Jason Earl wrote:
>>>>>>> I did some random cleans and presses for a Variety workout
>>>>>>> yesterday,
>>>>>>> but I did not have time to post the workout. Here's what I did
>>>>>>> today.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * DONE Medium ROP <2010-09-15 Wed>
>>>>>>> CLOSED: [2010-09-15 Wed 21:39]
>>>>>>> - CLOSING NOTE [2010-09-15 Wed 21:40] \\
>>>>>>> Done.
>>>>>>> ** Plan
>>>>>>> - Clean and Press 32kg (1-2) x 5 each hand.
>>>>>>> - Medium Swings 24kg for (2 dice) minutes 70-80% effort.
>>>>>>> ** Actual
>>>>>>> - Clean and Press 32kg (1-2) x 5 each hand (5.5 hours).
>>>>>>> - Medium Swings 24kg for 5 minutes 100 swings.
>>>>>>> ** Notes
>>>>>>> The cleans and presses went well. I really like that part of the
>>>>>>> workout. I felt fresh all day, and the 32kg bell is fun to lift.
>>>>>>> I feel like I am really moving something when I lift it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The swings went well also. Instead of doing a set of swings at
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> top of each minute (and then resting), I tried bunching the sets
>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>> a bit more. I did the first set of 20 as per usual, ten in each
>>>>>>> hand. I then rested until the timer said 4:05 and did 40 swings.
>>>>>>> I then was able to rest for about 45 seconds until the clock said
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> had 2:05 left. I actually finished the last 40 swings with 30
>>>>>>> seconds left to go, and if it had been a heavy day I might have
>>>>>>> been able to get another 5-10 swings in.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It was not, so I stopped.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hey, Jason - change of subject. I put up a new web page because I'm
>>>>>> often asked about which Pavel flexibility book to get. If you get a
>>>>>> chance, take a look and tell me if it's at all helpful, please.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.kbnj.com/flexguide.htm
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Change of subject again - I was thinking that we might start a
>>>>>> "training
>>>>>> week ended ..." thread that all of us could contribute to. Make the
>>>>>> date Sunday, so on this coming Monday, the 20th, you or me could
>>>>>> start a
>>>>>> thread entitled "Training Week Ended Sept. 19, 2010" and then we
>>>>>> could
>>>>>> each contribute, in a single message, a summary of our training week.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am following Pavel's "Return of the Kettlebell" program now. It
>>>>>> was
>>>>>> something I was especially interested in doing, but it fit with my
>>>>>> wife's needs and schedule, so there are four of us - me, my wife, and
>>>>>> another couple we lift with - doing it. The structure is fairly
>>>>>> simple
>>>>>> (although I do _not_ suggest doing it based on my brief summary):
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2 weeks of double kettlebell grinds on an ETK-like schedule
>>>>>> alternating
>>>>>> with 2 weeks of double kettlebell bell ballistics on a similar
>>>>>> schedule.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The grind blocks are mostly kb military press but you finish each
>>>>>> ladder
>>>>>> with a set of kb front squats, and you do two high-rep sets of
>>>>>> deadlifts
>>>>>> at the end. The explosive blocks are long cycle c&j for me, and
>>>>>> snatch
>>>>>> for women.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Everything is with two kettlebells, sometimes same size, sometimes
>>>>>> not.
>>>>>
>>>>> What happens if you use dumbbells in place of kettlebells? Do the
>>>>> exercises no longer work?
>>>>> Just curious.
>>>>> If perchance the exercises/moves *don't* work with dumbbells, could
>>>>> you
>>>>> explain why?
>>>>> --
>>>>> EA
>>>>>
>>>> The main reason dumbells dont work is that our friends dont make any
>>>> money on dumbells
>>>
>>> Dayum.... I axed nice, too, you figgered he'd give me something of an
>>> answer, irrational as it might have been. <sigh>
>>
>> You are like a broken record. We have been over this a million times.
>>
>> Nothing happens if you use a dumbbell instead of a kettlebell. No one
>> comes to your house and confiscates your lifting chalk. You might even
>> be more comfortable swinging, snatching and pressing a dumbbell, in
>> which case I highly recommend doing a workout similar to what I am doing
>> except with a dumbbell. It has been quite a bit of fun. I wouldn't
>> recommend doing it year round, but I will probably spend three months of
>> the year from now on working out in this fashion. I'm feeling good, and
>> looking better (though I have sort of bottomed out on my weight loss, I
>> probably need to concentrate on eating less).
>
> I put a much bigger value on incrementation that you do - for goal
> setting , to me., incrementation is everything. That means 5%. So if I am
> swinging 24 # I want to swing 25# tomorrow or next week - I dont want to
> swing 32# as my next goal - i.e. 25% - that is reidiculous and just
> because you did it and happy, that doesnt make it right. - If you make
> your next goal something dumb it would affect your motivation and it
> doesnt make sense from a physiological point of view. It is not unlike
> losing weight. You weight 210# now. Tomorrow you want to be 209. How would
> you feel if your scale doesnt register your weight lower than 210 until
> you get to 188#?

I fergot to add that what do you do if manage to make the next
incrementation i.,e. a big leap from 24# to 32#? That is not the end of it.
So what do you do next? Look forward to another 30% increase to the next
poundage that is available?

>>
>> Jason
>
>

Jason Earl[_2_]
September 17th 10, 10:03 PM
On Fri, Sep 17 2010, David wrote:

> "Jason Earl" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Fri, Sep 17 2010, Existential Angst wrote:
>>
>>> "David" > wrote in message
>>> ond.com...
>>>>
>>>> "Existential Angst" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> "Steve Freides" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> Jason Earl wrote:
>>>>>>> I did some random cleans and presses for a Variety workout yesterday,
>>>>>>> but I did not have time to post the workout. Here's what I did
>>>>>>> today.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * DONE Medium ROP <2010-09-15 Wed>
>>>>>>> CLOSED: [2010-09-15 Wed 21:39]
>>>>>>> - CLOSING NOTE [2010-09-15 Wed 21:40] \\
>>>>>>> Done.
>>>>>>> ** Plan
>>>>>>> - Clean and Press 32kg (1-2) x 5 each hand.
>>>>>>> - Medium Swings 24kg for (2 dice) minutes 70-80% effort.
>>>>>>> ** Actual
>>>>>>> - Clean and Press 32kg (1-2) x 5 each hand (5.5 hours).
>>>>>>> - Medium Swings 24kg for 5 minutes 100 swings.
>>>>>>> ** Notes
>>>>>>> The cleans and presses went well. I really like that part of the
>>>>>>> workout. I felt fresh all day, and the 32kg bell is fun to lift.
>>>>>>> I feel like I am really moving something when I lift it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The swings went well also. Instead of doing a set of swings at the
>>>>>>> top of each minute (and then resting), I tried bunching the sets up
>>>>>>> a bit more. I did the first set of 20 as per usual, ten in each
>>>>>>> hand. I then rested until the timer said 4:05 and did 40 swings.
>>>>>>> I then was able to rest for about 45 seconds until the clock said I
>>>>>>> had 2:05 left. I actually finished the last 40 swings with 30
>>>>>>> seconds left to go, and if it had been a heavy day I might have
>>>>>>> been able to get another 5-10 swings in.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It was not, so I stopped.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hey, Jason - change of subject. I put up a new web page because I'm
>>>>>> often asked about which Pavel flexibility book to get. If you get a
>>>>>> chance, take a look and tell me if it's at all helpful, please.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.kbnj.com/flexguide.htm
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Change of subject again - I was thinking that we might start a
>>>>>> "training
>>>>>> week ended ..." thread that all of us could contribute to. Make the
>>>>>> date Sunday, so on this coming Monday, the 20th, you or me could start
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> thread entitled "Training Week Ended Sept. 19, 2010" and then we could
>>>>>> each contribute, in a single message, a summary of our training week.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am following Pavel's "Return of the Kettlebell" program now. It was
>>>>>> something I was especially interested in doing, but it fit with my
>>>>>> wife's needs and schedule, so there are four of us - me, my wife, and
>>>>>> another couple we lift with - doing it. The structure is fairly
>>>>>> simple
>>>>>> (although I do _not_ suggest doing it based on my brief summary):
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2 weeks of double kettlebell grinds on an ETK-like schedule
>>>>>> alternating
>>>>>> with 2 weeks of double kettlebell bell ballistics on a similar
>>>>>> schedule.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The grind blocks are mostly kb military press but you finish each
>>>>>> ladder
>>>>>> with a set of kb front squats, and you do two high-rep sets of
>>>>>> deadlifts
>>>>>> at the end. The explosive blocks are long cycle c&j for me, and
>>>>>> snatch
>>>>>> for women.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Everything is with two kettlebells, sometimes same size, sometimes
>>>>>> not.
>>>>>
>>>>> What happens if you use dumbbells in place of kettlebells? Do the
>>>>> exercises no longer work?
>>>>> Just curious.
>>>>> If perchance the exercises/moves *don't* work with dumbbells, could you
>>>>> explain why?
>>>>> --
>>>>> EA
>>>>>
>>>> The main reason dumbells dont work is that our friends dont make any
>>>> money on dumbells
>>>
>>> Dayum.... I axed nice, too, you figgered he'd give me something of an
>>> answer, irrational as it might have been. <sigh>
>>
>> You are like a broken record. We have been over this a million times.
>>
>> Nothing happens if you use a dumbbell instead of a kettlebell. No one
>> comes to your house and confiscates your lifting chalk. You might even
>> be more comfortable swinging, snatching and pressing a dumbbell, in
>> which case I highly recommend doing a workout similar to what I am doing
>> except with a dumbbell. It has been quite a bit of fun. I wouldn't
>> recommend doing it year round, but I will probably spend three months of
>> the year from now on working out in this fashion. I'm feeling good, and
>> looking better (though I have sort of bottomed out on my weight loss, I
>> probably need to concentrate on eating less).
>
> I put a much bigger value on incrementation that you do - for goal
> setting , to me., incrementation is everything. That means 5%. So if I
> am swinging 24 # I want to swing 25# tomorrow or next week - I dont
> want to swing 32# as my next goal - i.e. 25% - that is reidiculous and
> just because you did it and happy, that doesnt make it right. - If you
> make your next goal something dumb it would affect your motivation and
> it doesnt make sense from a physiological point of view. It is not
> unlike losing weight. You weight 210# now. Tomorrow you want to be
> 209. How would you feel if your scale doesnt register your weight
> lower than 210 until you get to 188#?

I think that makes a lot of sense. That's certainly how I have always
handled this sort of thing in the past. I even have some large washers
that weigh just a bit less than a pound that I have used to make
incremental progress in the past.

I honestly thought I was wasting my time cleaning and pressing my
kettlebell 75 times with each hand in just over a half hour. I mean,
obviously that is a good solid workout for me, so it wasn't a complete
waste of time. But I did not think that it would get me any closer to
actually being able to press the 32kg kettlebell.

Except that, apparently, it did.

Now, I am sure that the fact that I actually had a 32kg kettlebell
laying around that I could not press helped a great deal. I was very
motivated to lift the darn thing. And if this particular plan had not
worked, then I definitely would have tried something else. That's
really the advantage of using a workout that so many other people have
tried. Pavel has enough experience training people that if he says that
it is possible to jump from 24kg to 32kg, then it is probably possible.

And, sometime in the future, when I can press my 32kg kettlebell 75
times with each hand in a little over a half hour I admit that I fully
expect to be able to press a 40kg kettlebell. When I get to that point
I will be disappointed if I can not. Percentage wise it will actually
be much less of a jump.

However, that's a bridge that I will cross when the time comes. In the
meantime I will worry about doing three ladders up to three on Saturday.
If I am feeling particularly good I might try and get in a fourth ladder
to three. For the foreseeable future I have a clear path of easy
incremental improvement. Each week I need to lift the same weight for
more reps in approximately the same amount of time.

My guess is that I will not come anywhere near being able to move up to
another kettlebell in the clean and press in the month and a half that I
have left on this program.

I can see what you mean about incremental progress, your weight example
was excellent. However, on the flip side if I did weigh myself tomorrow
and I weighed 188 I would be pretty excited. That's how I feel about
presses right now.

I had resigned myself to incremental progress. I am not going to say I
was happy with the idea that I was going to continue to try and do the
same ridiculous 75 presses per hand in less and less time, but I was
resigned to the fact that this was how I was going to measure my
progress. You have to admit that being able to do the same workout in
less time is still legitimate progress.

Instead found that I had made a significant leap.

Jason

David[_11_]
September 18th 10, 11:46 AM
"Jason Earl" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, Sep 17 2010, David wrote:
>
>> "Jason Earl" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On Fri, Sep 17 2010, Existential Angst wrote:
>>>
>>>> "David" > wrote in message
>>>> ond.com...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Existential Angst" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> "Steve Freides" > wrote in message
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>> Jason Earl wrote:
>>>>>>>> I did some random cleans and presses for a Variety workout
>>>>>>>> yesterday,
>>>>>>>> but I did not have time to post the workout. Here's what I did
>>>>>>>> today.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> * DONE Medium ROP <2010-09-15 Wed>
>>>>>>>> CLOSED: [2010-09-15 Wed 21:39]
>>>>>>>> - CLOSING NOTE [2010-09-15 Wed 21:40] \\
>>>>>>>> Done.
>>>>>>>> ** Plan
>>>>>>>> - Clean and Press 32kg (1-2) x 5 each hand.
>>>>>>>> - Medium Swings 24kg for (2 dice) minutes 70-80% effort.
>>>>>>>> ** Actual
>>>>>>>> - Clean and Press 32kg (1-2) x 5 each hand (5.5 hours).
>>>>>>>> - Medium Swings 24kg for 5 minutes 100 swings.
>>>>>>>> ** Notes
>>>>>>>> The cleans and presses went well. I really like that part of the
>>>>>>>> workout. I felt fresh all day, and the 32kg bell is fun to lift.
>>>>>>>> I feel like I am really moving something when I lift it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The swings went well also. Instead of doing a set of swings at
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> top of each minute (and then resting), I tried bunching the sets
>>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>>> a bit more. I did the first set of 20 as per usual, ten in each
>>>>>>>> hand. I then rested until the timer said 4:05 and did 40 swings.
>>>>>>>> I then was able to rest for about 45 seconds until the clock said
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> had 2:05 left. I actually finished the last 40 swings with 30
>>>>>>>> seconds left to go, and if it had been a heavy day I might have
>>>>>>>> been able to get another 5-10 swings in.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It was not, so I stopped.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hey, Jason - change of subject. I put up a new web page because I'm
>>>>>>> often asked about which Pavel flexibility book to get. If you get a
>>>>>>> chance, take a look and tell me if it's at all helpful, please.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.kbnj.com/flexguide.htm
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Change of subject again - I was thinking that we might start a
>>>>>>> "training
>>>>>>> week ended ..." thread that all of us could contribute to. Make the
>>>>>>> date Sunday, so on this coming Monday, the 20th, you or me could
>>>>>>> start
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> thread entitled "Training Week Ended Sept. 19, 2010" and then we
>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>> each contribute, in a single message, a summary of our training
>>>>>>> week.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am following Pavel's "Return of the Kettlebell" program now. It
>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>> something I was especially interested in doing, but it fit with my
>>>>>>> wife's needs and schedule, so there are four of us - me, my wife,
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> another couple we lift with - doing it. The structure is fairly
>>>>>>> simple
>>>>>>> (although I do _not_ suggest doing it based on my brief summary):
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2 weeks of double kettlebell grinds on an ETK-like schedule
>>>>>>> alternating
>>>>>>> with 2 weeks of double kettlebell bell ballistics on a similar
>>>>>>> schedule.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The grind blocks are mostly kb military press but you finish each
>>>>>>> ladder
>>>>>>> with a set of kb front squats, and you do two high-rep sets of
>>>>>>> deadlifts
>>>>>>> at the end. The explosive blocks are long cycle c&j for me, and
>>>>>>> snatch
>>>>>>> for women.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Everything is with two kettlebells, sometimes same size, sometimes
>>>>>>> not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What happens if you use dumbbells in place of kettlebells? Do the
>>>>>> exercises no longer work?
>>>>>> Just curious.
>>>>>> If perchance the exercises/moves *don't* work with dumbbells, could
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> explain why?
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> EA
>>>>>>
>>>>> The main reason dumbells dont work is that our friends dont make any
>>>>> money on dumbells
>>>>
>>>> Dayum.... I axed nice, too, you figgered he'd give me something of an
>>>> answer, irrational as it might have been. <sigh>
>>>
>>> You are like a broken record. We have been over this a million times.
>>>
>>> Nothing happens if you use a dumbbell instead of a kettlebell. No one
>>> comes to your house and confiscates your lifting chalk. You might even
>>> be more comfortable swinging, snatching and pressing a dumbbell, in
>>> which case I highly recommend doing a workout similar to what I am doing
>>> except with a dumbbell. It has been quite a bit of fun. I wouldn't
>>> recommend doing it year round, but I will probably spend three months of
>>> the year from now on working out in this fashion. I'm feeling good, and
>>> looking better (though I have sort of bottomed out on my weight loss, I
>>> probably need to concentrate on eating less).
>>
>> I put a much bigger value on incrementation that you do - for goal
>> setting , to me., incrementation is everything. That means 5%. So if I
>> am swinging 24 # I want to swing 25# tomorrow or next week - I dont
>> want to swing 32# as my next goal - i.e. 25% - that is reidiculous and
>> just because you did it and happy, that doesnt make it right. - If you
>> make your next goal something dumb it would affect your motivation and
>> it doesnt make sense from a physiological point of view. It is not
>> unlike losing weight. You weight 210# now. Tomorrow you want to be
>> 209. How would you feel if your scale doesnt register your weight
>> lower than 210 until you get to 188#?
>
> I think that makes a lot of sense. That's certainly how I have always
> handled this sort of thing in the past. I even have some large washers
> that weigh just a bit less than a pound that I have used to make
> incremental progress in the past.
>
> I honestly thought I was wasting my time cleaning and pressing my
> kettlebell 75 times with each hand in just over a half hour. I mean,
> obviously that is a good solid workout for me, so it wasn't a complete
> waste of time. But I did not think that it would get me any closer to
> actually being able to press the 32kg kettlebell.
>
> Except that, apparently, it did.
>
> Now, I am sure that the fact that I actually had a 32kg kettlebell
> laying around that I could not press helped a great deal. I was very
> motivated to lift the darn thing. And if this particular plan had not
> worked, then I definitely would have tried something else. That's
> really the advantage of using a workout that so many other people have
> tried. Pavel has enough experience training people that if he says that
> it is possible to jump from 24kg to 32kg, then it is probably possible.
>
> And, sometime in the future, when I can press my 32kg kettlebell 75
> times with each hand in a little over a half hour I admit that I fully
> expect to be able to press a 40kg kettlebell. When I get to that point
> I will be disappointed if I can not. Percentage wise it will actually
> be much less of a jump.
>
> However, that's a bridge that I will cross when the time comes. In the
> meantime I will worry about doing three ladders up to three on Saturday.
> If I am feeling particularly good I might try and get in a fourth ladder
> to three. For the foreseeable future I have a clear path of easy
> incremental improvement. Each week I need to lift the same weight for
> more reps in approximately the same amount of time.
>
> My guess is that I will not come anywhere near being able to move up to
> another kettlebell in the clean and press in the month and a half that I
> have left on this program.
>
> I can see what you mean about incremental progress, your weight example
> was excellent. However, on the flip side if I did weigh myself tomorrow
> and I weighed 188 I would be pretty excited. That's how I feel about
> presses right now.
>
> I had resigned myself to incremental progress. I am not going to say I
> was happy with the idea that I was going to continue to try and do the
> same ridiculous 75 presses per hand in less and less time, but I was
> resigned to the fact that this was how I was going to measure my
> progress. You have to admit that being able to do the same workout in
> less time is still legitimate progress.
>
> Instead found that I had made a significant leap.

Well you are doing pretty well - I saw something on the internet about an
adjustable KB so that is good idea if they are available your way


>
> Jason

Jason Earl[_2_]
September 18th 10, 07:40 PM
On Sat, Sep 18 2010, David wrote:


[...]

>> Instead found that I had made a significant leap.
>
> Well you are doing pretty well - I saw something on the internet about
> an adjustable KB so that is good idea if they are available your way

I have looked into the various adjustable kettlebells, mostly because I
already own a pile of standard plates, and I am cheap, but I have
decided to pass.

Part of the reason I have decided to pass is that most of the adjustable
kettlebells that I have seen do not allow for heavy enough kettlebells
to be interesting to me. The one adjustable kettlebell that I found
that does allow for large bells (the kettlestack) was pretty expensive,
and it maxes out at 85 pounds. The next kettlebell that I want to buy
is 40kg (88 lbs.).

Besides, I sort of like the idea of owning a set of kettlebells. They
last forever, and they look cool (yes, that's marketing, but I still
feel that way). Next year, when I do this program again, I will buy
another kettlebell and use it as an incentive to lift more weight.

Most of the year I'll progress in a more traditional incremental manner,
but I will definitely try this again. Who knows, maybe lightning will
even strike twice.

Jason

Jason Earl[_2_]
September 19th 10, 07:06 AM
* DONE Heavy ROP <2010-09-18 Sat>
CLOSED: [2010-09-18 Sat 23:45]
- CLOSING NOTE [2010-09-18 Sat 23:45] \\
Just under the wire.
** Plan
- Clean and Press 32kg (1-2-3) x 3
- Swings for 32kg (2 dice) minutes all out.
** Actual
- Clean and Press 32kg (1-2-3) x 3 18 each hand (all day).
- Swings for 32kg 11 minutes all out (116 swings)..
** Notes
The cleans and presses went well. KaeLynn's sister and her family
was in town, and my two oldest kids had soccer games, so I had to
work my presses in throughout the day. Other than that things went
well.

I was wary about the swings, and tired after a day of doing things
with family, and so I was a bit discouraged when I rolled an 11.
So I decided to just shoot for 10 per minute. After the first 3
minutes I started to think that maybe I had shot way too low.
However, as I got nearer the 100 mark I began to realize that I had
judged things almost perfectly. Near the end, my heart and lungs
were fine, but my lower back, my glutes, and pretty much the rest
of my posterior chain was flashing "Game Over, Insert More Pizza"
signs. On the one hand that is incredibly encouraging. Not too
long ago 116 swings in 11 minutes would have had my heart racing
with just the 24kg bell. The downside is that I really have been
trying to use this part of my workout as a way to improve my
cardio. Tonight my heart and lungs were definitely not the
bottleneck.

I do feel good about the effort. I could have started off at a
faster pace, but I think my pace was about optimal for getting in
the most swings in 11 minutes. Hopefully the work with the heavier
weight will allow me to do more reps with the lighter kettlebell.

If not, well, I still managed to get in a solid workout, topping
off a very good week. I am sure my lower back will thank me
eventually, but it will not thank me tomorrow.