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Andreas M
March 11th 04, 12:32 PM
After I got forearm tendonitis I stopped doing deadlifts (actually I
stopped training alltogether because I thought that would do the
trick, eventually got back to training wich improved my condition but
I avoided certain lifts, more because of theories than experience).
Sometimes, using a pencil can trigger my condition and chinups don't,
the latter certanly involves a greater amount of weight and weight is
obviously just just part of the equation (repetition and the fast pace
of the pencil irritate the tendons more, or just the strain).

However, deadlifting is pretty tough on the grip but I also think it
could be pretty good. I am basically just uncertain on whether to
include it (gradually) or not - does anyone have experience on
deadlifts&tendonitis(tennis/golf elbow)?

Bill
March 11th 04, 02:16 PM
"Andreas M" > wrote in message
om...
> After I got forearm tendonitis I stopped doing deadlifts (actually I
> stopped training alltogether because I thought that would do the
> trick, eventually got back to training wich improved my condition but
> I avoided certain lifts, more because of theories than experience).
> Sometimes, using a pencil can trigger my condition and chinups don't,
> the latter certanly involves a greater amount of weight and weight is
> obviously just just part of the equation (repetition and the fast pace
> of the pencil irritate the tendons more, or just the strain).
>
> However, deadlifting is pretty tough on the grip but I also think it
> could be pretty good. I am basically just uncertain on whether to
> include it (gradually) or not - does anyone have experience on
> deadlifts&tendonitis(tennis/golf elbow)?

Why not massage, stretch and strengthen the forearm muscles--grip, wrist,
fingers?

If one curls the wrist to compensate for a slipping grip, it can send
warning signals to the elbow.

Bill
March 11th 04, 02:16 PM
"Andreas M" > wrote in message
om...
> After I got forearm tendonitis I stopped doing deadlifts (actually I
> stopped training alltogether because I thought that would do the
> trick, eventually got back to training wich improved my condition but
> I avoided certain lifts, more because of theories than experience).
> Sometimes, using a pencil can trigger my condition and chinups don't,
> the latter certanly involves a greater amount of weight and weight is
> obviously just just part of the equation (repetition and the fast pace
> of the pencil irritate the tendons more, or just the strain).
>
> However, deadlifting is pretty tough on the grip but I also think it
> could be pretty good. I am basically just uncertain on whether to
> include it (gradually) or not - does anyone have experience on
> deadlifts&tendonitis(tennis/golf elbow)?

Why not massage, stretch and strengthen the forearm muscles--grip, wrist,
fingers?

If one curls the wrist to compensate for a slipping grip, it can send
warning signals to the elbow.

Steve Freides
March 11th 04, 02:18 PM
"Andreas M" > wrote in message
om...
> After I got forearm tendonitis I stopped doing deadlifts (actually I
> stopped training alltogether because I thought that would do the
> trick, eventually got back to training wich improved my condition but
> I avoided certain lifts, more because of theories than experience).
> Sometimes, using a pencil can trigger my condition and chinups don't,
> the latter certanly involves a greater amount of weight and weight is
> obviously just just part of the equation (repetition and the fast pace
> of the pencil irritate the tendons more, or just the strain).
>
> However, deadlifting is pretty tough on the grip but I also think it
> could be pretty good. I am basically just uncertain on whether to
> include it (gradually) or not - does anyone have experience on
> deadlifts&tendonitis(tennis/golf elbow)?

I have no experience whatsoever with your particular condition but I can't
help wondering what causes it and also can't help agreeing with you that
strengthening your grip might help. Have you considered joint-health type
exercises? Not that this is a joint issue per se but perhaps it's related
to you _not_ moving all the muscles and tendons of your forearm/hand through
a full range of motion on a regular basis. Maybe something as simple as
moving your wrists in circle, working up to lots of reps, both directions,
every day - would help.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com
http://www.kbnj.com/sj.htm

Steve Freides
March 11th 04, 02:18 PM
"Andreas M" > wrote in message
om...
> After I got forearm tendonitis I stopped doing deadlifts (actually I
> stopped training alltogether because I thought that would do the
> trick, eventually got back to training wich improved my condition but
> I avoided certain lifts, more because of theories than experience).
> Sometimes, using a pencil can trigger my condition and chinups don't,
> the latter certanly involves a greater amount of weight and weight is
> obviously just just part of the equation (repetition and the fast pace
> of the pencil irritate the tendons more, or just the strain).
>
> However, deadlifting is pretty tough on the grip but I also think it
> could be pretty good. I am basically just uncertain on whether to
> include it (gradually) or not - does anyone have experience on
> deadlifts&tendonitis(tennis/golf elbow)?

I have no experience whatsoever with your particular condition but I can't
help wondering what causes it and also can't help agreeing with you that
strengthening your grip might help. Have you considered joint-health type
exercises? Not that this is a joint issue per se but perhaps it's related
to you _not_ moving all the muscles and tendons of your forearm/hand through
a full range of motion on a regular basis. Maybe something as simple as
moving your wrists in circle, working up to lots of reps, both directions,
every day - would help.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com
http://www.kbnj.com/sj.htm

Hoff
March 11th 04, 02:39 PM
"Steve Freides" > wrote in message
...
> "Andreas M" > wrote in message
> om...
> > After I got forearm tendonitis I stopped doing deadlifts (actually I
> > stopped training alltogether because I thought that would do the
> > trick, eventually got back to training wich improved my condition but
> > I avoided certain lifts, more because of theories than experience).
> > Sometimes, using a pencil can trigger my condition and chinups don't,
> > the latter certanly involves a greater amount of weight and weight is
> > obviously just just part of the equation (repetition and the fast pace
> > of the pencil irritate the tendons more, or just the strain).
> >
> > However, deadlifting is pretty tough on the grip but I also think it
> > could be pretty good. I am basically just uncertain on whether to
> > include it (gradually) or not - does anyone have experience on
> > deadlifts&tendonitis(tennis/golf elbow)?
>
> I have no experience whatsoever with your particular condition but I can't
> help wondering what causes it and also can't help agreeing with you that
> strengthening your grip might help. Have you considered joint-health type
> exercises? Not that this is a joint issue per se but perhaps it's related
> to you _not_ moving all the muscles and tendons of your forearm/hand
through
> a full range of motion on a regular basis. Maybe something as simple as
> moving your wrists in circle, working up to lots of reps, both directions,
> every day - would help.

Observe the classic shift of the question, to something for which Steve just
*happens* to have a book link.

>
> -S-
> http://www.kbnj.com
> http://www.kbnj.com/morespamplease.htm

To the OP, if you ARE interested, Super Joints is available here, for $10.00
cheaper:

http://snipurl.com/512l

(http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbninquiry.asp?userid=365P85HW
5N&pwb=1&ean=9780938045366)

Hoff
March 11th 04, 02:39 PM
"Steve Freides" > wrote in message
...
> "Andreas M" > wrote in message
> om...
> > After I got forearm tendonitis I stopped doing deadlifts (actually I
> > stopped training alltogether because I thought that would do the
> > trick, eventually got back to training wich improved my condition but
> > I avoided certain lifts, more because of theories than experience).
> > Sometimes, using a pencil can trigger my condition and chinups don't,
> > the latter certanly involves a greater amount of weight and weight is
> > obviously just just part of the equation (repetition and the fast pace
> > of the pencil irritate the tendons more, or just the strain).
> >
> > However, deadlifting is pretty tough on the grip but I also think it
> > could be pretty good. I am basically just uncertain on whether to
> > include it (gradually) or not - does anyone have experience on
> > deadlifts&tendonitis(tennis/golf elbow)?
>
> I have no experience whatsoever with your particular condition but I can't
> help wondering what causes it and also can't help agreeing with you that
> strengthening your grip might help. Have you considered joint-health type
> exercises? Not that this is a joint issue per se but perhaps it's related
> to you _not_ moving all the muscles and tendons of your forearm/hand
through
> a full range of motion on a regular basis. Maybe something as simple as
> moving your wrists in circle, working up to lots of reps, both directions,
> every day - would help.

Observe the classic shift of the question, to something for which Steve just
*happens* to have a book link.

>
> -S-
> http://www.kbnj.com
> http://www.kbnj.com/morespamplease.htm

To the OP, if you ARE interested, Super Joints is available here, for $10.00
cheaper:

http://snipurl.com/512l

(http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbninquiry.asp?userid=365P85HW
5N&pwb=1&ean=9780938045366)

Donovan Rebbechi
March 11th 04, 03:35 PM
In article >, Andreas M wrote:
> After I got forearm tendonitis I stopped doing deadlifts (actually I
> stopped training alltogether because I thought that would do the
> trick, eventually got back to training wich improved my condition but
> I avoided certain lifts, more because of theories than experience).
> Sometimes, using a pencil can trigger my condition and chinups don't,
> the latter certanly involves a greater amount of weight and weight is
> obviously just just part of the equation (repetition and the fast pace
> of the pencil irritate the tendons more, or just the strain).
>
> However, deadlifting is pretty tough on the grip but I also think it
> could be pretty good. I am basically just uncertain on whether to
> include it (gradually) or not - does anyone have experience on
> deadlifts&tendonitis(tennis/golf elbow)?

Tendonitis usually responds pretty quickly to abuse. A good rule of thumb
is, "if it hurts, don't do it". If you do something bad to your tendons, you'll
usually get inflammation within 24hrs (for my achilles tendonitis, when I had
it, it was always worst just after I got out of bed)

Your best bet is to carefully monitor the response to activity.

Resistance itself doesn't always cause problems. There are other factors, like
range of motion that can be more important. Using a pencil could cause
irritation if it stretches the wrong muscle, even though heavy work may not.

Something like the bench press (which doesn't heavily involve the forearm
muscles, but does stretch them) may well be more problematic than something
like chins (which loads but doesn't stretch)

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Donovan Rebbechi
March 11th 04, 03:35 PM
In article >, Andreas M wrote:
> After I got forearm tendonitis I stopped doing deadlifts (actually I
> stopped training alltogether because I thought that would do the
> trick, eventually got back to training wich improved my condition but
> I avoided certain lifts, more because of theories than experience).
> Sometimes, using a pencil can trigger my condition and chinups don't,
> the latter certanly involves a greater amount of weight and weight is
> obviously just just part of the equation (repetition and the fast pace
> of the pencil irritate the tendons more, or just the strain).
>
> However, deadlifting is pretty tough on the grip but I also think it
> could be pretty good. I am basically just uncertain on whether to
> include it (gradually) or not - does anyone have experience on
> deadlifts&tendonitis(tennis/golf elbow)?

Tendonitis usually responds pretty quickly to abuse. A good rule of thumb
is, "if it hurts, don't do it". If you do something bad to your tendons, you'll
usually get inflammation within 24hrs (for my achilles tendonitis, when I had
it, it was always worst just after I got out of bed)

Your best bet is to carefully monitor the response to activity.

Resistance itself doesn't always cause problems. There are other factors, like
range of motion that can be more important. Using a pencil could cause
irritation if it stretches the wrong muscle, even though heavy work may not.

Something like the bench press (which doesn't heavily involve the forearm
muscles, but does stretch them) may well be more problematic than something
like chins (which loads but doesn't stretch)

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Donovan Rebbechi
March 11th 04, 04:04 PM
In article <[email protected]_s53>, Hoff wrote:

> Observe the classic shift of the question, to something for which Steve just
> *happens* to have a book link.

He can't help himself. He probably doesn't even realise he's doing it until
he's called on it. As a general principle, fringe groups tend to inspire
fanaticism among devotees (though I'm not sure why this is).

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Donovan Rebbechi
March 11th 04, 04:04 PM
In article <[email protected]_s53>, Hoff wrote:

> Observe the classic shift of the question, to something for which Steve just
> *happens* to have a book link.

He can't help himself. He probably doesn't even realise he's doing it until
he's called on it. As a general principle, fringe groups tend to inspire
fanaticism among devotees (though I'm not sure why this is).

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

ff123
March 11th 04, 04:04 PM
On 11 Mar 2004 04:32:37 -0800, (Andreas M)
wrote:

>After I got forearm tendonitis I stopped doing deadlifts (actually I
>stopped training alltogether because I thought that would do the
>trick, eventually got back to training wich improved my condition but
>I avoided certain lifts, more because of theories than experience).
>Sometimes, using a pencil can trigger my condition and chinups don't,
>the latter certanly involves a greater amount of weight and weight is
>obviously just just part of the equation (repetition and the fast pace
>of the pencil irritate the tendons more, or just the strain).
>
>However, deadlifting is pretty tough on the grip but I also think it
>could be pretty good. I am basically just uncertain on whether to
>include it (gradually) or not - does anyone have experience on
>deadlifts&tendonitis(tennis/golf elbow)?

Try it to see if it hurts (with a light weight to start with, of
course). I never tried deadlifts when I was recovering from my tennis
elbow. However, I can tell you that a rehabilitation exercise I used
was to extend (straighten) my arm and squeeze, which sounds
suspiciously like what's involved in deadlifting. And generally a
pronated grip would hurt more than a supinated one.

It took maybe one or two months before I could exercise somewhat
normally, although I would be conscious of my arm being more fragile
than before. Another couple months and that feeling disappeared as
well.

ff123

ff123
March 11th 04, 04:04 PM
On 11 Mar 2004 04:32:37 -0800, (Andreas M)
wrote:

>After I got forearm tendonitis I stopped doing deadlifts (actually I
>stopped training alltogether because I thought that would do the
>trick, eventually got back to training wich improved my condition but
>I avoided certain lifts, more because of theories than experience).
>Sometimes, using a pencil can trigger my condition and chinups don't,
>the latter certanly involves a greater amount of weight and weight is
>obviously just just part of the equation (repetition and the fast pace
>of the pencil irritate the tendons more, or just the strain).
>
>However, deadlifting is pretty tough on the grip but I also think it
>could be pretty good. I am basically just uncertain on whether to
>include it (gradually) or not - does anyone have experience on
>deadlifts&tendonitis(tennis/golf elbow)?

Try it to see if it hurts (with a light weight to start with, of
course). I never tried deadlifts when I was recovering from my tennis
elbow. However, I can tell you that a rehabilitation exercise I used
was to extend (straighten) my arm and squeeze, which sounds
suspiciously like what's involved in deadlifting. And generally a
pronated grip would hurt more than a supinated one.

It took maybe one or two months before I could exercise somewhat
normally, although I would be conscious of my arm being more fragile
than before. Another couple months and that feeling disappeared as
well.

ff123

chris
March 11th 04, 05:16 PM
i have it in the elbow but i tried celebrex and badabing all gone
woohoo....go to the website www.celebrex.com get the free sample. its for
arthritis but it worked for me.

Chris
"Andreas M" > wrote in message
om...
> After I got forearm tendonitis I stopped doing deadlifts (actually I
> stopped training alltogether because I thought that would do the
> trick, eventually got back to training wich improved my condition but
> I avoided certain lifts, more because of theories than experience).
> Sometimes, using a pencil can trigger my condition and chinups don't,
> the latter certanly involves a greater amount of weight and weight is
> obviously just just part of the equation (repetition and the fast pace
> of the pencil irritate the tendons more, or just the strain).
>
> However, deadlifting is pretty tough on the grip but I also think it
> could be pretty good. I am basically just uncertain on whether to
> include it (gradually) or not - does anyone have experience on
> deadlifts&tendonitis(tennis/golf elbow)?

chris
March 11th 04, 05:16 PM
i have it in the elbow but i tried celebrex and badabing all gone
woohoo....go to the website www.celebrex.com get the free sample. its for
arthritis but it worked for me.

Chris
"Andreas M" > wrote in message
om...
> After I got forearm tendonitis I stopped doing deadlifts (actually I
> stopped training alltogether because I thought that would do the
> trick, eventually got back to training wich improved my condition but
> I avoided certain lifts, more because of theories than experience).
> Sometimes, using a pencil can trigger my condition and chinups don't,
> the latter certanly involves a greater amount of weight and weight is
> obviously just just part of the equation (repetition and the fast pace
> of the pencil irritate the tendons more, or just the strain).
>
> However, deadlifting is pretty tough on the grip but I also think it
> could be pretty good. I am basically just uncertain on whether to
> include it (gradually) or not - does anyone have experience on
> deadlifts&tendonitis(tennis/golf elbow)?

Steve Freides
March 12th 04, 02:51 AM
"Hoff" > wrote in message
news:[email protected]_s53...
> "Steve Freides" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "Andreas M" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > > After I got forearm tendonitis I stopped doing deadlifts (actually I
> > > stopped training alltogether because I thought that would do the
> > > trick, eventually got back to training wich improved my condition but
> > > I avoided certain lifts, more because of theories than experience).
> > > Sometimes, using a pencil can trigger my condition and chinups don't,
> > > the latter certanly involves a greater amount of weight and weight is
> > > obviously just just part of the equation (repetition and the fast pace
> > > of the pencil irritate the tendons more, or just the strain).
> > >
> > > However, deadlifting is pretty tough on the grip but I also think it
> > > could be pretty good. I am basically just uncertain on whether to
> > > include it (gradually) or not - does anyone have experience on
> > > deadlifts&tendonitis(tennis/golf elbow)?
> >
> > I have no experience whatsoever with your particular condition but I
can't
> > help wondering what causes it and also can't help agreeing with you that
> > strengthening your grip might help. Have you considered joint-health
type
> > exercises? Not that this is a joint issue per se but perhaps it's
related
> > to you _not_ moving all the muscles and tendons of your forearm/hand
> through
> > a full range of motion on a regular basis. Maybe something as simple as
> > moving your wrists in circle, working up to lots of reps, both
directions,
> > every day - would help.
>
> Observe the classic shift of the question, to something for which Steve
just
> *happens* to have a book link.
>
> >
> > -S-
> > http://www.kbnj.com
> > http://www.kbnj.com/morespamplease.htm

Just for you, my love, I've made the above link live - give a click and tell
me what you think.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com
http://www.kbnj.com/morespamplease.htm


> To the OP, if you ARE interested, Super Joints is available here, for
$10.00
> cheaper:
>
> http://snipurl.com/512l
>
>
(http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbninquiry.asp?userid=365P85HW
> 5N&pwb=1&ean=9780938045366)
>
>
>

Steve Freides
March 12th 04, 02:51 AM
"Hoff" > wrote in message
news:[email protected]_s53...
> "Steve Freides" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "Andreas M" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > > After I got forearm tendonitis I stopped doing deadlifts (actually I
> > > stopped training alltogether because I thought that would do the
> > > trick, eventually got back to training wich improved my condition but
> > > I avoided certain lifts, more because of theories than experience).
> > > Sometimes, using a pencil can trigger my condition and chinups don't,
> > > the latter certanly involves a greater amount of weight and weight is
> > > obviously just just part of the equation (repetition and the fast pace
> > > of the pencil irritate the tendons more, or just the strain).
> > >
> > > However, deadlifting is pretty tough on the grip but I also think it
> > > could be pretty good. I am basically just uncertain on whether to
> > > include it (gradually) or not - does anyone have experience on
> > > deadlifts&tendonitis(tennis/golf elbow)?
> >
> > I have no experience whatsoever with your particular condition but I
can't
> > help wondering what causes it and also can't help agreeing with you that
> > strengthening your grip might help. Have you considered joint-health
type
> > exercises? Not that this is a joint issue per se but perhaps it's
related
> > to you _not_ moving all the muscles and tendons of your forearm/hand
> through
> > a full range of motion on a regular basis. Maybe something as simple as
> > moving your wrists in circle, working up to lots of reps, both
directions,
> > every day - would help.
>
> Observe the classic shift of the question, to something for which Steve
just
> *happens* to have a book link.
>
> >
> > -S-
> > http://www.kbnj.com
> > http://www.kbnj.com/morespamplease.htm

Just for you, my love, I've made the above link live - give a click and tell
me what you think.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com
http://www.kbnj.com/morespamplease.htm


> To the OP, if you ARE interested, Super Joints is available here, for
$10.00
> cheaper:
>
> http://snipurl.com/512l
>
>
(http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbninquiry.asp?userid=365P85HW
> 5N&pwb=1&ean=9780938045366)
>
>
>

Stephen Mulholland
March 12th 04, 08:49 AM
(Andreas M) wrote in message >...

<snip forearm/elbow tendonitis tale of woe>

I posted this last night from home, but it doesn't seem to have got to
mfw, so I'll post it again, apologies if it turns out to be a
duplicate post. It was originally a response to a similar question
posed a while ago.



I have a suggestion. This worked for me, but that's not to say it
will work for you. It's worth a try, though.

I was plagued with elbow tendonitis for quite a while. I could feel
the inflammation in the tendons just above my elbow, and right down
into my forearm. I've mentioned here before that I thought the injury
was caused by my overdoing it on db rows during the 15-rep portion af
a HST routine, but I could be wrong about that. I couldn't do pullups
or rows without pain. I had an enforced layoff from the gym for quite
a few months, and even that length of rest didn't clear the problem
up. I also had a few physiotherapy sessions, but not enough to clear
the problem completely. Of course, I tried the anti-inflammatory
route too.

Anyway, this is what cleared the problem up COMPLETELY in less than
three weeks. I was rummaging about in the attic one day, and found a
little wooden massager. It looked much like this :

http://tinyurl.com/2gz4s

but instead of having one long rolling part between the "horns" of the
handle, it has four wooden balls on an axle which runs between the
horns of the handle. I've searched about but can't find a pic of the
exact same massager. I started working on my forearm. I rubbed some
ibuprofen gel on to my forearm, and massaged my forearm up and down
its length. I wasn't gentle, either, it hurt quite a bit. I did this
for about ten minutes, paying particular attention to the areas just
above and just below my elbow. Then I started above the elbow, same
process, ibuprofen gel and HARD massage on the area where the
inflasmmation was the worst. I followed the treatment with icepacks
on the tender area. Next day, my forearm was really sore, so I left
off treatment for a couple of days, then started again. A week later,
the long-term tenderness I'd suffered had almost left my forearm. Two
weeks later, the longterm inflammation above my elbow had almost
disappeared. Three weeks later, and I was completely pain-free.

Of course, your tendonitis may well be affecting different tendons -
my main problem was brachioradialis tendon, IIRC what the physio said,
but my suggestion might be worth trying.

Stephen

Stephen Mulholland
March 12th 04, 08:49 AM
(Andreas M) wrote in message >...

<snip forearm/elbow tendonitis tale of woe>

I posted this last night from home, but it doesn't seem to have got to
mfw, so I'll post it again, apologies if it turns out to be a
duplicate post. It was originally a response to a similar question
posed a while ago.



I have a suggestion. This worked for me, but that's not to say it
will work for you. It's worth a try, though.

I was plagued with elbow tendonitis for quite a while. I could feel
the inflammation in the tendons just above my elbow, and right down
into my forearm. I've mentioned here before that I thought the injury
was caused by my overdoing it on db rows during the 15-rep portion af
a HST routine, but I could be wrong about that. I couldn't do pullups
or rows without pain. I had an enforced layoff from the gym for quite
a few months, and even that length of rest didn't clear the problem
up. I also had a few physiotherapy sessions, but not enough to clear
the problem completely. Of course, I tried the anti-inflammatory
route too.

Anyway, this is what cleared the problem up COMPLETELY in less than
three weeks. I was rummaging about in the attic one day, and found a
little wooden massager. It looked much like this :

http://tinyurl.com/2gz4s

but instead of having one long rolling part between the "horns" of the
handle, it has four wooden balls on an axle which runs between the
horns of the handle. I've searched about but can't find a pic of the
exact same massager. I started working on my forearm. I rubbed some
ibuprofen gel on to my forearm, and massaged my forearm up and down
its length. I wasn't gentle, either, it hurt quite a bit. I did this
for about ten minutes, paying particular attention to the areas just
above and just below my elbow. Then I started above the elbow, same
process, ibuprofen gel and HARD massage on the area where the
inflasmmation was the worst. I followed the treatment with icepacks
on the tender area. Next day, my forearm was really sore, so I left
off treatment for a couple of days, then started again. A week later,
the long-term tenderness I'd suffered had almost left my forearm. Two
weeks later, the longterm inflammation above my elbow had almost
disappeared. Three weeks later, and I was completely pain-free.

Of course, your tendonitis may well be affecting different tendons -
my main problem was brachioradialis tendon, IIRC what the physio said,
but my suggestion might be worth trying.

Stephen

Hoff
March 12th 04, 12:06 PM
"Steve Freides" > wrote in message
...
> "Hoff" > wrote in message
> news:[email protected]_s53...
> > "Steve Freides" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > "Andreas M" > wrote in message
> > > om...
> > > > After I got forearm tendonitis I stopped doing deadlifts (actually I
> > > > stopped training alltogether because I thought that would do the
> > > > trick, eventually got back to training wich improved my condition
but
> > > > I avoided certain lifts, more because of theories than experience).
> > > > Sometimes, using a pencil can trigger my condition and chinups
don't,
> > > > the latter certanly involves a greater amount of weight and weight
is
> > > > obviously just just part of the equation (repetition and the fast
pace
> > > > of the pencil irritate the tendons more, or just the strain).
> > > >
> > > > However, deadlifting is pretty tough on the grip but I also think it
> > > > could be pretty good. I am basically just uncertain on whether to
> > > > include it (gradually) or not - does anyone have experience on
> > > > deadlifts&tendonitis(tennis/golf elbow)?
> > >
> > > I have no experience whatsoever with your particular condition but I
> can't
> > > help wondering what causes it and also can't help agreeing with you
that
> > > strengthening your grip might help. Have you considered joint-health
> type
> > > exercises? Not that this is a joint issue per se but perhaps it's
> related
> > > to you _not_ moving all the muscles and tendons of your forearm/hand
> > through
> > > a full range of motion on a regular basis. Maybe something as simple
as
> > > moving your wrists in circle, working up to lots of reps, both
> directions,
> > > every day - would help.
> >
> > Observe the classic shift of the question, to something for which Steve
> just
> > *happens* to have a book link.
> >
> > >
> > > -S-
> > > http://www.kbnj.com
> > > http://www.morespamplease.com
> Just for you, my love, I've made the above link live - give a click and
tell
> me what you think.
>

Gee, isn't that cute.

Just another way of making sure the marks get to your site?

Hoff

Hoff
March 12th 04, 12:06 PM
"Steve Freides" > wrote in message
...
> "Hoff" > wrote in message
> news:[email protected]_s53...
> > "Steve Freides" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > "Andreas M" > wrote in message
> > > om...
> > > > After I got forearm tendonitis I stopped doing deadlifts (actually I
> > > > stopped training alltogether because I thought that would do the
> > > > trick, eventually got back to training wich improved my condition
but
> > > > I avoided certain lifts, more because of theories than experience).
> > > > Sometimes, using a pencil can trigger my condition and chinups
don't,
> > > > the latter certanly involves a greater amount of weight and weight
is
> > > > obviously just just part of the equation (repetition and the fast
pace
> > > > of the pencil irritate the tendons more, or just the strain).
> > > >
> > > > However, deadlifting is pretty tough on the grip but I also think it
> > > > could be pretty good. I am basically just uncertain on whether to
> > > > include it (gradually) or not - does anyone have experience on
> > > > deadlifts&tendonitis(tennis/golf elbow)?
> > >
> > > I have no experience whatsoever with your particular condition but I
> can't
> > > help wondering what causes it and also can't help agreeing with you
that
> > > strengthening your grip might help. Have you considered joint-health
> type
> > > exercises? Not that this is a joint issue per se but perhaps it's
> related
> > > to you _not_ moving all the muscles and tendons of your forearm/hand
> > through
> > > a full range of motion on a regular basis. Maybe something as simple
as
> > > moving your wrists in circle, working up to lots of reps, both
> directions,
> > > every day - would help.
> >
> > Observe the classic shift of the question, to something for which Steve
> just
> > *happens* to have a book link.
> >
> > >
> > > -S-
> > > http://www.kbnj.com
> > > http://www.morespamplease.com
> Just for you, my love, I've made the above link live - give a click and
tell
> me what you think.
>

Gee, isn't that cute.

Just another way of making sure the marks get to your site?

Hoff

Steve Freides
March 12th 04, 01:14 PM
"Hoff" > wrote in message
news:[email protected]_s51...
> "Steve Freides" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "Hoff" > wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]_s53...
> > > "Steve Freides" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > "Andreas M" > wrote in message
> > > > om...
> > > > > After I got forearm tendonitis I stopped doing deadlifts (actually
I
> > > > > stopped training alltogether because I thought that would do the
> > > > > trick, eventually got back to training wich improved my condition
> but
> > > > > I avoided certain lifts, more because of theories than
experience).
> > > > > Sometimes, using a pencil can trigger my condition and chinups
> don't,
> > > > > the latter certanly involves a greater amount of weight and weight
> is
> > > > > obviously just just part of the equation (repetition and the fast
> pace
> > > > > of the pencil irritate the tendons more, or just the strain).
> > > > >
> > > > > However, deadlifting is pretty tough on the grip but I also think
it
> > > > > could be pretty good. I am basically just uncertain on whether to
> > > > > include it (gradually) or not - does anyone have experience on
> > > > > deadlifts&tendonitis(tennis/golf elbow)?
> > > >
> > > > I have no experience whatsoever with your particular condition but I
> > can't
> > > > help wondering what causes it and also can't help agreeing with you
> that
> > > > strengthening your grip might help. Have you considered
joint-health
> > type
> > > > exercises? Not that this is a joint issue per se but perhaps it's
> > related
> > > > to you _not_ moving all the muscles and tendons of your forearm/hand
> > > through
> > > > a full range of motion on a regular basis. Maybe something as
simple
> as
> > > > moving your wrists in circle, working up to lots of reps, both
> > directions,
> > > > every day - would help.
> > >
> > > Observe the classic shift of the question, to something for which
Steve
> > just
> > > *happens* to have a book link.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > -S-
> > > > http://www.kbnj.com
> > > > http://www.morespamplease.com
> > Just for you, my love, I've made the above link live - give a click and
> tell
> > me what you think.
> >
>
> Gee, isn't that cute.
>
> Just another way of making sure the marks get to your site?

Like I said, there's no argueing with the veracity of fiction, so as long as
you're inventing my motives, you're bound to be correct. It _is_ kind of
fun watching you spin what I say, I'll admit that.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com


> Hoff
>
>

Steve Freides
March 12th 04, 01:14 PM
"Hoff" > wrote in message
news:[email protected]_s51...
> "Steve Freides" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "Hoff" > wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]_s53...
> > > "Steve Freides" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > "Andreas M" > wrote in message
> > > > om...
> > > > > After I got forearm tendonitis I stopped doing deadlifts (actually
I
> > > > > stopped training alltogether because I thought that would do the
> > > > > trick, eventually got back to training wich improved my condition
> but
> > > > > I avoided certain lifts, more because of theories than
experience).
> > > > > Sometimes, using a pencil can trigger my condition and chinups
> don't,
> > > > > the latter certanly involves a greater amount of weight and weight
> is
> > > > > obviously just just part of the equation (repetition and the fast
> pace
> > > > > of the pencil irritate the tendons more, or just the strain).
> > > > >
> > > > > However, deadlifting is pretty tough on the grip but I also think
it
> > > > > could be pretty good. I am basically just uncertain on whether to
> > > > > include it (gradually) or not - does anyone have experience on
> > > > > deadlifts&tendonitis(tennis/golf elbow)?
> > > >
> > > > I have no experience whatsoever with your particular condition but I
> > can't
> > > > help wondering what causes it and also can't help agreeing with you
> that
> > > > strengthening your grip might help. Have you considered
joint-health
> > type
> > > > exercises? Not that this is a joint issue per se but perhaps it's
> > related
> > > > to you _not_ moving all the muscles and tendons of your forearm/hand
> > > through
> > > > a full range of motion on a regular basis. Maybe something as
simple
> as
> > > > moving your wrists in circle, working up to lots of reps, both
> > directions,
> > > > every day - would help.
> > >
> > > Observe the classic shift of the question, to something for which
Steve
> > just
> > > *happens* to have a book link.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > -S-
> > > > http://www.kbnj.com
> > > > http://www.morespamplease.com
> > Just for you, my love, I've made the above link live - give a click and
> tell
> > me what you think.
> >
>
> Gee, isn't that cute.
>
> Just another way of making sure the marks get to your site?

Like I said, there's no argueing with the veracity of fiction, so as long as
you're inventing my motives, you're bound to be correct. It _is_ kind of
fun watching you spin what I say, I'll admit that.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com


> Hoff
>
>

March 12th 04, 01:18 PM
On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:04:32 +0000 (UTC), Donovan Rebbechi
> wrote:

>In article <[email protected]_s53>, Hoff wrote:
>
>> Observe the classic shift of the question, to something for which Steve just
>> *happens* to have a book link.
>
>He can't help himself. He probably doesn't even realise he's doing it until
>he's called on it. As a general principle, fringe groups tend to inspire
>fanaticism among devotees (though I'm not sure why this is).
>
>Cheers,

I have a distal biceps tendon injury and a very weak belief system.
My doc advises me to go for PT but he added that he doesn't think much
of PT so I'm disheartened. I wonder whether joining a fringe group
would activate some kind of mind-over-matter dynamic and cause my
injury to heal faster. I've been researching this subject and have
learned that a small number of people are very enthusiastic about
doing compound exercises which involve lifting relatively heavy free
weights. The shapes of these weights differ and there are many other
variations, but they all agree that such exercises are a fine tonic
for the mind and body. You think this might work for me?

March 12th 04, 01:18 PM
On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:04:32 +0000 (UTC), Donovan Rebbechi
> wrote:

>In article <[email protected]_s53>, Hoff wrote:
>
>> Observe the classic shift of the question, to something for which Steve just
>> *happens* to have a book link.
>
>He can't help himself. He probably doesn't even realise he's doing it until
>he's called on it. As a general principle, fringe groups tend to inspire
>fanaticism among devotees (though I'm not sure why this is).
>
>Cheers,

I have a distal biceps tendon injury and a very weak belief system.
My doc advises me to go for PT but he added that he doesn't think much
of PT so I'm disheartened. I wonder whether joining a fringe group
would activate some kind of mind-over-matter dynamic and cause my
injury to heal faster. I've been researching this subject and have
learned that a small number of people are very enthusiastic about
doing compound exercises which involve lifting relatively heavy free
weights. The shapes of these weights differ and there are many other
variations, but they all agree that such exercises are a fine tonic
for the mind and body. You think this might work for me?

Hoff
March 12th 04, 02:15 PM
"Steve Freides" > wrote in message
...
> "Hoff" > wrote in message
> news:[email protected]_s51...
> > "Steve Freides" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > "Hoff" > wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]_s53...
> > > > "Steve Freides" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > > "Andreas M" > wrote in message
> > > > > om...
> > > > > > After I got forearm tendonitis I stopped doing deadlifts
(actually
> I
> > > > > > stopped training alltogether because I thought that would do the
> > > > > > trick, eventually got back to training wich improved my
condition
> > but
> > > > > > I avoided certain lifts, more because of theories than
> experience).
> > > > > > Sometimes, using a pencil can trigger my condition and chinups
> > don't,
> > > > > > the latter certanly involves a greater amount of weight and
weight
> > is
> > > > > > obviously just just part of the equation (repetition and the
fast
> > pace
> > > > > > of the pencil irritate the tendons more, or just the strain).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > However, deadlifting is pretty tough on the grip but I also
think
> it
> > > > > > could be pretty good. I am basically just uncertain on whether
to
> > > > > > include it (gradually) or not - does anyone have experience on
> > > > > > deadlifts&tendonitis(tennis/golf elbow)?
> > > > >
> > > > > I have no experience whatsoever with your particular condition but
I
> > > can't
> > > > > help wondering what causes it and also can't help agreeing with
you
> > that
> > > > > strengthening your grip might help. Have you considered
> joint-health
> > > type
> > > > > exercises? Not that this is a joint issue per se but perhaps it's
> > > related
> > > > > to you _not_ moving all the muscles and tendons of your
forearm/hand
> > > > through
> > > > > a full range of motion on a regular basis. Maybe something as
> simple
> > as
> > > > > moving your wrists in circle, working up to lots of reps, both
> > > directions,
> > > > > every day - would help.
> > > >
> > > > Observe the classic shift of the question, to something for which
> Steve
> > > just
> > > > *happens* to have a book link.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -S-
> > > > > http://www.kbnj.com
> > > > > http://www.morespamplease.com
> > > Just for you, my love, I've made the above link live - give a click
and
> > tell
> > > me what you think.
> > >
> >
> > Gee, isn't that cute.
> >
> > Just another way of making sure the marks get to your site?
>
> Like I said, there's no argueing with the veracity of fiction, so as long
as
> you're inventing my motives, you're bound to be correct. It _is_ kind of
> fun watching you spin what I say, I'll admit that.
>

You seem to have this cyclical thing going.

You get called on this stuff, and then spend some time actually answering
posts without pushing your links. Eventually, though, you're right back at
it.

I dunno. Does the income drop THAT much when you just include your website
in the sig?

FWIW, I've actually sort of felt sorry for you, watching the flack you catch
even from the guys over on dragondoor. But I gotta admit, HBAD is an even
funnier version of IOM.

Hoff

Hoff
March 12th 04, 02:15 PM
"Steve Freides" > wrote in message
...
> "Hoff" > wrote in message
> news:[email protected]_s51...
> > "Steve Freides" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > "Hoff" > wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]_s53...
> > > > "Steve Freides" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > > "Andreas M" > wrote in message
> > > > > om...
> > > > > > After I got forearm tendonitis I stopped doing deadlifts
(actually
> I
> > > > > > stopped training alltogether because I thought that would do the
> > > > > > trick, eventually got back to training wich improved my
condition
> > but
> > > > > > I avoided certain lifts, more because of theories than
> experience).
> > > > > > Sometimes, using a pencil can trigger my condition and chinups
> > don't,
> > > > > > the latter certanly involves a greater amount of weight and
weight
> > is
> > > > > > obviously just just part of the equation (repetition and the
fast
> > pace
> > > > > > of the pencil irritate the tendons more, or just the strain).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > However, deadlifting is pretty tough on the grip but I also
think
> it
> > > > > > could be pretty good. I am basically just uncertain on whether
to
> > > > > > include it (gradually) or not - does anyone have experience on
> > > > > > deadlifts&tendonitis(tennis/golf elbow)?
> > > > >
> > > > > I have no experience whatsoever with your particular condition but
I
> > > can't
> > > > > help wondering what causes it and also can't help agreeing with
you
> > that
> > > > > strengthening your grip might help. Have you considered
> joint-health
> > > type
> > > > > exercises? Not that this is a joint issue per se but perhaps it's
> > > related
> > > > > to you _not_ moving all the muscles and tendons of your
forearm/hand
> > > > through
> > > > > a full range of motion on a regular basis. Maybe something as
> simple
> > as
> > > > > moving your wrists in circle, working up to lots of reps, both
> > > directions,
> > > > > every day - would help.
> > > >
> > > > Observe the classic shift of the question, to something for which
> Steve
> > > just
> > > > *happens* to have a book link.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -S-
> > > > > http://www.kbnj.com
> > > > > http://www.morespamplease.com
> > > Just for you, my love, I've made the above link live - give a click
and
> > tell
> > > me what you think.
> > >
> >
> > Gee, isn't that cute.
> >
> > Just another way of making sure the marks get to your site?
>
> Like I said, there's no argueing with the veracity of fiction, so as long
as
> you're inventing my motives, you're bound to be correct. It _is_ kind of
> fun watching you spin what I say, I'll admit that.
>

You seem to have this cyclical thing going.

You get called on this stuff, and then spend some time actually answering
posts without pushing your links. Eventually, though, you're right back at
it.

I dunno. Does the income drop THAT much when you just include your website
in the sig?

FWIW, I've actually sort of felt sorry for you, watching the flack you catch
even from the guys over on dragondoor. But I gotta admit, HBAD is an even
funnier version of IOM.

Hoff

Donovan Rebbechi
March 12th 04, 02:39 PM
In article <[email protected]_s52>, Hoff wrote:

> FWIW, I've actually sort of felt sorry for you, watching the flack you catch
> even from the guys over on dragondoor. But I gotta admit, HBAD is an even
> funnier version of IOM.

What is HBAD ?

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Donovan Rebbechi
March 12th 04, 02:39 PM
In article <[email protected]_s52>, Hoff wrote:

> FWIW, I've actually sort of felt sorry for you, watching the flack you catch
> even from the guys over on dragondoor. But I gotta admit, HBAD is an even
> funnier version of IOM.

What is HBAD ?

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

John HUDSON
March 12th 04, 03:17 PM
On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:15:34 GMT, "Hoff" >
wrote:

>"Steve Freides" > wrote in message
...
>> "Hoff" > wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]_s51...
>> > "Steve Freides" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> > > "Hoff" > wrote in message
>> > > news:[email protected]_s53...
>> > > > "Steve Freides" > wrote in message
>> > > > ...
>> > > > > "Andreas M" > wrote in message
>> > > > > om...
>> > > > > > After I got forearm tendonitis I stopped doing deadlifts
>(actually
>> I
>> > > > > > stopped training alltogether because I thought that would do the
>> > > > > > trick, eventually got back to training wich improved my
>condition
>> > but
>> > > > > > I avoided certain lifts, more because of theories than
>> experience).
>> > > > > > Sometimes, using a pencil can trigger my condition and chinups
>> > don't,
>> > > > > > the latter certanly involves a greater amount of weight and
>weight
>> > is
>> > > > > > obviously just just part of the equation (repetition and the
>fast
>> > pace
>> > > > > > of the pencil irritate the tendons more, or just the strain).
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > However, deadlifting is pretty tough on the grip but I also
>think
>> it
>> > > > > > could be pretty good. I am basically just uncertain on whether
>to
>> > > > > > include it (gradually) or not - does anyone have experience on
>> > > > > > deadlifts&tendonitis(tennis/golf elbow)?
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I have no experience whatsoever with your particular condition but
>I
>> > > can't
>> > > > > help wondering what causes it and also can't help agreeing with
>you
>> > that
>> > > > > strengthening your grip might help. Have you considered
>> joint-health
>> > > type
>> > > > > exercises? Not that this is a joint issue per se but perhaps it's
>> > > related
>> > > > > to you _not_ moving all the muscles and tendons of your
>forearm/hand
>> > > > through
>> > > > > a full range of motion on a regular basis. Maybe something as
>> simple
>> > as
>> > > > > moving your wrists in circle, working up to lots of reps, both
>> > > directions,
>> > > > > every day - would help.
>> > > >
>> > > > Observe the classic shift of the question, to something for which
>> Steve
>> > > just
>> > > > *happens* to have a book link.
>> > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > -S-
>> > > > > http://www.kbnj.com
>> > > > > http://www.morespamplease.com
>> > > Just for you, my love, I've made the above link live - give a click
>and
>> > tell
>> > > me what you think.
>> > >
>> >
>> > Gee, isn't that cute.
>> >
>> > Just another way of making sure the marks get to your site?
>>
>> Like I said, there's no argueing with the veracity of fiction, so as long
>as
>> you're inventing my motives, you're bound to be correct. It _is_ kind of
>> fun watching you spin what I say, I'll admit that.
>>
>
>You seem to have this cyclical thing going.
>
>You get called on this stuff, and then spend some time actually answering
>posts without pushing your links. Eventually, though, you're right back at
>it.
>
>I dunno. Does the income drop THAT much when you just include your website
>in the sig?
>
>FWIW, I've actually sort of felt sorry for you, watching the flack you catch
>even from the guys over on dragondoor. But I gotta admit, HBAD is an even
>funnier version of IOM.

For what it's worth "IOM" isn't (wasn't? [as it appears to have fallen
into disrepute]) in the least bit funny, given that it was mostly
organised (that is probably disorganised) by those that were the most
appropriate candidates to be the rightful recipients!!

John HUDSON
March 12th 04, 03:17 PM
On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:15:34 GMT, "Hoff" >
wrote:

>"Steve Freides" > wrote in message
...
>> "Hoff" > wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]_s51...
>> > "Steve Freides" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> > > "Hoff" > wrote in message
>> > > news:[email protected]_s53...
>> > > > "Steve Freides" > wrote in message
>> > > > ...
>> > > > > "Andreas M" > wrote in message
>> > > > > om...
>> > > > > > After I got forearm tendonitis I stopped doing deadlifts
>(actually
>> I
>> > > > > > stopped training alltogether because I thought that would do the
>> > > > > > trick, eventually got back to training wich improved my
>condition
>> > but
>> > > > > > I avoided certain lifts, more because of theories than
>> experience).
>> > > > > > Sometimes, using a pencil can trigger my condition and chinups
>> > don't,
>> > > > > > the latter certanly involves a greater amount of weight and
>weight
>> > is
>> > > > > > obviously just just part of the equation (repetition and the
>fast
>> > pace
>> > > > > > of the pencil irritate the tendons more, or just the strain).
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > However, deadlifting is pretty tough on the grip but I also
>think
>> it
>> > > > > > could be pretty good. I am basically just uncertain on whether
>to
>> > > > > > include it (gradually) or not - does anyone have experience on
>> > > > > > deadlifts&tendonitis(tennis/golf elbow)?
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I have no experience whatsoever with your particular condition but
>I
>> > > can't
>> > > > > help wondering what causes it and also can't help agreeing with
>you
>> > that
>> > > > > strengthening your grip might help. Have you considered
>> joint-health
>> > > type
>> > > > > exercises? Not that this is a joint issue per se but perhaps it's
>> > > related
>> > > > > to you _not_ moving all the muscles and tendons of your
>forearm/hand
>> > > > through
>> > > > > a full range of motion on a regular basis. Maybe something as
>> simple
>> > as
>> > > > > moving your wrists in circle, working up to lots of reps, both
>> > > directions,
>> > > > > every day - would help.
>> > > >
>> > > > Observe the classic shift of the question, to something for which
>> Steve
>> > > just
>> > > > *happens* to have a book link.
>> > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > -S-
>> > > > > http://www.kbnj.com
>> > > > > http://www.morespamplease.com
>> > > Just for you, my love, I've made the above link live - give a click
>and
>> > tell
>> > > me what you think.
>> > >
>> >
>> > Gee, isn't that cute.
>> >
>> > Just another way of making sure the marks get to your site?
>>
>> Like I said, there's no argueing with the veracity of fiction, so as long
>as
>> you're inventing my motives, you're bound to be correct. It _is_ kind of
>> fun watching you spin what I say, I'll admit that.
>>
>
>You seem to have this cyclical thing going.
>
>You get called on this stuff, and then spend some time actually answering
>posts without pushing your links. Eventually, though, you're right back at
>it.
>
>I dunno. Does the income drop THAT much when you just include your website
>in the sig?
>
>FWIW, I've actually sort of felt sorry for you, watching the flack you catch
>even from the guys over on dragondoor. But I gotta admit, HBAD is an even
>funnier version of IOM.

For what it's worth "IOM" isn't (wasn't? [as it appears to have fallen
into disrepute]) in the least bit funny, given that it was mostly
organised (that is probably disorganised) by those that were the most
appropriate candidates to be the rightful recipients!!

Steve Freides
March 12th 04, 03:19 PM
"Hoff" > wrote in message
news:[email protected]_s52...
> "Steve Freides" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "Hoff" > wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]_s51...
> > > "Steve Freides" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > "Hoff" > wrote in message
> > > > news:[email protected]_s53...
> > > > > "Steve Freides" > wrote in message
> > > > > ...
> > > > > > "Andreas M" > wrote in message
> > > > > > om...
> > > > > > > After I got forearm tendonitis I stopped doing deadlifts
> (actually
> > I
> > > > > > > stopped training alltogether because I thought that would do
the
> > > > > > > trick, eventually got back to training wich improved my
> condition
> > > but
> > > > > > > I avoided certain lifts, more because of theories than
> > experience).
> > > > > > > Sometimes, using a pencil can trigger my condition and chinups
> > > don't,
> > > > > > > the latter certanly involves a greater amount of weight and
> weight
> > > is
> > > > > > > obviously just just part of the equation (repetition and the
> fast
> > > pace
> > > > > > > of the pencil irritate the tendons more, or just the strain).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > However, deadlifting is pretty tough on the grip but I also
> think
> > it
> > > > > > > could be pretty good. I am basically just uncertain on whether
> to
> > > > > > > include it (gradually) or not - does anyone have experience on
> > > > > > > deadlifts&tendonitis(tennis/golf elbow)?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have no experience whatsoever with your particular condition
but
> I
> > > > can't
> > > > > > help wondering what causes it and also can't help agreeing with
> you
> > > that
> > > > > > strengthening your grip might help. Have you considered
> > joint-health
> > > > type
> > > > > > exercises? Not that this is a joint issue per se but perhaps
it's
> > > > related
> > > > > > to you _not_ moving all the muscles and tendons of your
> forearm/hand
> > > > > through
> > > > > > a full range of motion on a regular basis. Maybe something as
> > simple
> > > as
> > > > > > moving your wrists in circle, working up to lots of reps, both
> > > > directions,
> > > > > > every day - would help.
> > > > >
> > > > > Observe the classic shift of the question, to something for which
> > Steve
> > > > just
> > > > > *happens* to have a book link.
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -S-
> > > > > > http://www.kbnj.com
> > > > > > http://www.morespamplease.com
> > > > Just for you, my love, I've made the above link live - give a click
> and
> > > tell
> > > > me what you think.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Gee, isn't that cute.
> > >
> > > Just another way of making sure the marks get to your site?
> >
> > Like I said, there's no argueing with the veracity of fiction, so as
long
> as
> > you're inventing my motives, you're bound to be correct. It _is_ kind
of
> > fun watching you spin what I say, I'll admit that.
> >
>
> You seem to have this cyclical thing going.
>
> You get called on this stuff, and then spend some time actually answering
> posts without pushing your links. Eventually, though, you're right back
at
> it.
>
> I dunno. Does the income drop THAT much when you just include your
website
> in the sig?

You really don't get it, do you? <sigh>. I pay no attention to the income
from DragonDoor commissions regarding what I post here. If I think someone
might benefit from reading a book I've read, I'll give a link to the book.
If it's "cyclical" it may just be, well, I don't know what it may just be.
I haven't been reading the books themselves much lately. Honest, I don't
know.

> FWIW, I've actually sort of felt sorry for you, watching the flack you
catch
> even from the guys over on dragondoor. But I gotta admit, HBAD is an even
> funnier version of IOM.

Hoff, some of us just aren't destined to go through life quietly. I do my
best to learn what I can then I call things the way I see them. Some of the
folks on DragonDoor don't agree with me on some things - such is life. My
email address is public; people let me know I'm helping by posting here
which is why I continue to do it, and likewise on DragonDoor. You are, in
my opinion, a good egg - well-informed, willing to call me if I post
something you think is wrong, and I have no problems with anything you're
doing. As I've said before, you're misinformed about my motives but there's
nothing I can do about that other than remind you from time to time.

I've got a fresh link for you - an interview with me in the "Success
Stories" section of the DragonDoor site:

> Hoff
>
>

Steve Freides
March 12th 04, 03:19 PM
"Hoff" > wrote in message
news:[email protected]_s52...
> "Steve Freides" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "Hoff" > wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]_s51...
> > > "Steve Freides" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > "Hoff" > wrote in message
> > > > news:[email protected]_s53...
> > > > > "Steve Freides" > wrote in message
> > > > > ...
> > > > > > "Andreas M" > wrote in message
> > > > > > om...
> > > > > > > After I got forearm tendonitis I stopped doing deadlifts
> (actually
> > I
> > > > > > > stopped training alltogether because I thought that would do
the
> > > > > > > trick, eventually got back to training wich improved my
> condition
> > > but
> > > > > > > I avoided certain lifts, more because of theories than
> > experience).
> > > > > > > Sometimes, using a pencil can trigger my condition and chinups
> > > don't,
> > > > > > > the latter certanly involves a greater amount of weight and
> weight
> > > is
> > > > > > > obviously just just part of the equation (repetition and the
> fast
> > > pace
> > > > > > > of the pencil irritate the tendons more, or just the strain).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > However, deadlifting is pretty tough on the grip but I also
> think
> > it
> > > > > > > could be pretty good. I am basically just uncertain on whether
> to
> > > > > > > include it (gradually) or not - does anyone have experience on
> > > > > > > deadlifts&tendonitis(tennis/golf elbow)?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have no experience whatsoever with your particular condition
but
> I
> > > > can't
> > > > > > help wondering what causes it and also can't help agreeing with
> you
> > > that
> > > > > > strengthening your grip might help. Have you considered
> > joint-health
> > > > type
> > > > > > exercises? Not that this is a joint issue per se but perhaps
it's
> > > > related
> > > > > > to you _not_ moving all the muscles and tendons of your
> forearm/hand
> > > > > through
> > > > > > a full range of motion on a regular basis. Maybe something as
> > simple
> > > as
> > > > > > moving your wrists in circle, working up to lots of reps, both
> > > > directions,
> > > > > > every day - would help.
> > > > >
> > > > > Observe the classic shift of the question, to something for which
> > Steve
> > > > just
> > > > > *happens* to have a book link.
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -S-
> > > > > > http://www.kbnj.com
> > > > > > http://www.morespamplease.com
> > > > Just for you, my love, I've made the above link live - give a click
> and
> > > tell
> > > > me what you think.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Gee, isn't that cute.
> > >
> > > Just another way of making sure the marks get to your site?
> >
> > Like I said, there's no argueing with the veracity of fiction, so as
long
> as
> > you're inventing my motives, you're bound to be correct. It _is_ kind
of
> > fun watching you spin what I say, I'll admit that.
> >
>
> You seem to have this cyclical thing going.
>
> You get called on this stuff, and then spend some time actually answering
> posts without pushing your links. Eventually, though, you're right back
at
> it.
>
> I dunno. Does the income drop THAT much when you just include your
website
> in the sig?

You really don't get it, do you? <sigh>. I pay no attention to the income
from DragonDoor commissions regarding what I post here. If I think someone
might benefit from reading a book I've read, I'll give a link to the book.
If it's "cyclical" it may just be, well, I don't know what it may just be.
I haven't been reading the books themselves much lately. Honest, I don't
know.

> FWIW, I've actually sort of felt sorry for you, watching the flack you
catch
> even from the guys over on dragondoor. But I gotta admit, HBAD is an even
> funnier version of IOM.

Hoff, some of us just aren't destined to go through life quietly. I do my
best to learn what I can then I call things the way I see them. Some of the
folks on DragonDoor don't agree with me on some things - such is life. My
email address is public; people let me know I'm helping by posting here
which is why I continue to do it, and likewise on DragonDoor. You are, in
my opinion, a good egg - well-informed, willing to call me if I post
something you think is wrong, and I have no problems with anything you're
doing. As I've said before, you're misinformed about my motives but there's
nothing I can do about that other than remind you from time to time.

I've got a fresh link for you - an interview with me in the "Success
Stories" section of the DragonDoor site:

> Hoff
>
>

Steve Freides
March 12th 04, 03:20 PM
Whoops, hit Send too soon:

http://www.myaffiliateprogram.com/u/dragondr/t.asp?id=1022&p=profiles#sfreides

or:

http://www.dragondoor.com/profiles#sfreides

for those of you morally opposed to the affiliate ID thing.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com


"Steve Freides" > wrote in message
...
> "Hoff" > wrote in message
> news:[email protected]_s52...
> > "Steve Freides" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > "Hoff" > wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]_s51...
> > > > "Steve Freides" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > > "Hoff" > wrote in message
> > > > > news:[email protected]_s53...
> > > > > > "Steve Freides" > wrote in message
> > > > > > ...
> > > > > > > "Andreas M" > wrote in message
> > > > > > > om...
> > > > > > > > After I got forearm tendonitis I stopped doing deadlifts
> > (actually
> > > I
> > > > > > > > stopped training alltogether because I thought that would do
> the
> > > > > > > > trick, eventually got back to training wich improved my
> > condition
> > > > but
> > > > > > > > I avoided certain lifts, more because of theories than
> > > experience).
> > > > > > > > Sometimes, using a pencil can trigger my condition and
chinups
> > > > don't,
> > > > > > > > the latter certanly involves a greater amount of weight and
> > weight
> > > > is
> > > > > > > > obviously just just part of the equation (repetition and the
> > fast
> > > > pace
> > > > > > > > of the pencil irritate the tendons more, or just the
strain).
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > However, deadlifting is pretty tough on the grip but I also
> > think
> > > it
> > > > > > > > could be pretty good. I am basically just uncertain on
whether
> > to
> > > > > > > > include it (gradually) or not - does anyone have experience
on
> > > > > > > > deadlifts&tendonitis(tennis/golf elbow)?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have no experience whatsoever with your particular condition
> but
> > I
> > > > > can't
> > > > > > > help wondering what causes it and also can't help agreeing
with
> > you
> > > > that
> > > > > > > strengthening your grip might help. Have you considered
> > > joint-health
> > > > > type
> > > > > > > exercises? Not that this is a joint issue per se but perhaps
> it's
> > > > > related
> > > > > > > to you _not_ moving all the muscles and tendons of your
> > forearm/hand
> > > > > > through
> > > > > > > a full range of motion on a regular basis. Maybe something as
> > > simple
> > > > as
> > > > > > > moving your wrists in circle, working up to lots of reps, both
> > > > > directions,
> > > > > > > every day - would help.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Observe the classic shift of the question, to something for
which
> > > Steve
> > > > > just
> > > > > > *happens* to have a book link.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -S-
> > > > > > > http://www.kbnj.com
> > > > > > > http://www.morespamplease.com
> > > > > Just for you, my love, I've made the above link live - give a
click
> > and
> > > > tell
> > > > > me what you think.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Gee, isn't that cute.
> > > >
> > > > Just another way of making sure the marks get to your site?
> > >
> > > Like I said, there's no argueing with the veracity of fiction, so as
> long
> > as
> > > you're inventing my motives, you're bound to be correct. It _is_ kind
> of
> > > fun watching you spin what I say, I'll admit that.
> > >
> >
> > You seem to have this cyclical thing going.
> >
> > You get called on this stuff, and then spend some time actually
answering
> > posts without pushing your links. Eventually, though, you're right back
> at
> > it.
> >
> > I dunno. Does the income drop THAT much when you just include your
> website
> > in the sig?
>
> You really don't get it, do you? <sigh>. I pay no attention to the income
> from DragonDoor commissions regarding what I post here. If I think
someone
> might benefit from reading a book I've read, I'll give a link to the book.
> If it's "cyclical" it may just be, well, I don't know what it may just be.
> I haven't been reading the books themselves much lately. Honest, I don't
> know.
>
> > FWIW, I've actually sort of felt sorry for you, watching the flack you
> catch
> > even from the guys over on dragondoor. But I gotta admit, HBAD is an
even
> > funnier version of IOM.
>
> Hoff, some of us just aren't destined to go through life quietly. I do my
> best to learn what I can then I call things the way I see them. Some of
the
> folks on DragonDoor don't agree with me on some things - such is life. My
> email address is public; people let me know I'm helping by posting here
> which is why I continue to do it, and likewise on DragonDoor. You are, in
> my opinion, a good egg - well-informed, willing to call me if I post
> something you think is wrong, and I have no problems with anything you're
> doing. As I've said before, you're misinformed about my motives but
there's
> nothing I can do about that other than remind you from time to time.
>
> I've got a fresh link for you - an interview with me in the "Success
> Stories" section of the DragonDoor site:
>
> > Hoff
> >
> >
>
>

Steve Freides
March 12th 04, 03:20 PM
Whoops, hit Send too soon:

http://www.myaffiliateprogram.com/u/dragondr/t.asp?id=1022&p=profiles#sfreides

or:

http://www.dragondoor.com/profiles#sfreides

for those of you morally opposed to the affiliate ID thing.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com


"Steve Freides" > wrote in message
...
> "Hoff" > wrote in message
> news:[email protected]_s52...
> > "Steve Freides" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > "Hoff" > wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]_s51...
> > > > "Steve Freides" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > > "Hoff" > wrote in message
> > > > > news:[email protected]_s53...
> > > > > > "Steve Freides" > wrote in message
> > > > > > ...
> > > > > > > "Andreas M" > wrote in message
> > > > > > > om...
> > > > > > > > After I got forearm tendonitis I stopped doing deadlifts
> > (actually
> > > I
> > > > > > > > stopped training alltogether because I thought that would do
> the
> > > > > > > > trick, eventually got back to training wich improved my
> > condition
> > > > but
> > > > > > > > I avoided certain lifts, more because of theories than
> > > experience).
> > > > > > > > Sometimes, using a pencil can trigger my condition and
chinups
> > > > don't,
> > > > > > > > the latter certanly involves a greater amount of weight and
> > weight
> > > > is
> > > > > > > > obviously just just part of the equation (repetition and the
> > fast
> > > > pace
> > > > > > > > of the pencil irritate the tendons more, or just the
strain).
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > However, deadlifting is pretty tough on the grip but I also
> > think
> > > it
> > > > > > > > could be pretty good. I am basically just uncertain on
whether
> > to
> > > > > > > > include it (gradually) or not - does anyone have experience
on
> > > > > > > > deadlifts&tendonitis(tennis/golf elbow)?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have no experience whatsoever with your particular condition
> but
> > I
> > > > > can't
> > > > > > > help wondering what causes it and also can't help agreeing
with
> > you
> > > > that
> > > > > > > strengthening your grip might help. Have you considered
> > > joint-health
> > > > > type
> > > > > > > exercises? Not that this is a joint issue per se but perhaps
> it's
> > > > > related
> > > > > > > to you _not_ moving all the muscles and tendons of your
> > forearm/hand
> > > > > > through
> > > > > > > a full range of motion on a regular basis. Maybe something as
> > > simple
> > > > as
> > > > > > > moving your wrists in circle, working up to lots of reps, both
> > > > > directions,
> > > > > > > every day - would help.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Observe the classic shift of the question, to something for
which
> > > Steve
> > > > > just
> > > > > > *happens* to have a book link.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -S-
> > > > > > > http://www.kbnj.com
> > > > > > > http://www.morespamplease.com
> > > > > Just for you, my love, I've made the above link live - give a
click
> > and
> > > > tell
> > > > > me what you think.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Gee, isn't that cute.
> > > >
> > > > Just another way of making sure the marks get to your site?
> > >
> > > Like I said, there's no argueing with the veracity of fiction, so as
> long
> > as
> > > you're inventing my motives, you're bound to be correct. It _is_ kind
> of
> > > fun watching you spin what I say, I'll admit that.
> > >
> >
> > You seem to have this cyclical thing going.
> >
> > You get called on this stuff, and then spend some time actually
answering
> > posts without pushing your links. Eventually, though, you're right back
> at
> > it.
> >
> > I dunno. Does the income drop THAT much when you just include your
> website
> > in the sig?
>
> You really don't get it, do you? <sigh>. I pay no attention to the income
> from DragonDoor commissions regarding what I post here. If I think
someone
> might benefit from reading a book I've read, I'll give a link to the book.
> If it's "cyclical" it may just be, well, I don't know what it may just be.
> I haven't been reading the books themselves much lately. Honest, I don't
> know.
>
> > FWIW, I've actually sort of felt sorry for you, watching the flack you
> catch
> > even from the guys over on dragondoor. But I gotta admit, HBAD is an
even
> > funnier version of IOM.
>
> Hoff, some of us just aren't destined to go through life quietly. I do my
> best to learn what I can then I call things the way I see them. Some of
the
> folks on DragonDoor don't agree with me on some things - such is life. My
> email address is public; people let me know I'm helping by posting here
> which is why I continue to do it, and likewise on DragonDoor. You are, in
> my opinion, a good egg - well-informed, willing to call me if I post
> something you think is wrong, and I have no problems with anything you're
> doing. As I've said before, you're misinformed about my motives but
there's
> nothing I can do about that other than remind you from time to time.
>
> I've got a fresh link for you - an interview with me in the "Success
> Stories" section of the DragonDoor site:
>
> > Hoff
> >
> >
>
>

Hoff
March 12th 04, 03:56 PM
"Donovan Rebbechi" > wrote in message
...
> In article <[email protected]_s52>, Hoff wrote:
>
> > FWIW, I've actually sort of felt sorry for you, watching the flack you
catch
> > even from the guys over on dragondoor. But I gotta admit, HBAD is an
even
> > funnier version of IOM.
>
> What is HBAD ?

Steve can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it stands for
Here_Be_A_Dumbass.

Hoff

Hoff
March 12th 04, 03:56 PM
"Donovan Rebbechi" > wrote in message
...
> In article <[email protected]_s52>, Hoff wrote:
>
> > FWIW, I've actually sort of felt sorry for you, watching the flack you
catch
> > even from the guys over on dragondoor. But I gotta admit, HBAD is an
even
> > funnier version of IOM.
>
> What is HBAD ?

Steve can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it stands for
Here_Be_A_Dumbass.

Hoff

Hoff
March 12th 04, 04:21 PM
"Steve Freides" > wrote in message
...

> Hoff, some of us just aren't destined to go through life quietly. I do my
> best to learn what I can then I call things the way I see them. Some of
the
> folks on DragonDoor don't agree with me on some things - such is life. My
> email address is public; people let me know I'm helping by posting here
> which is why I continue to do it, and likewise on DragonDoor.

Ahh, yes. "The lurkers support me in email". Got it.

> You are, in
> my opinion, a good egg - well-informed, willing to call me if I post
> something you think is wrong, and I have no problems with anything you're
> doing. As I've said before, you're misinformed about my motives but
there's
> nothing I can do about that other than remind you from time to time.
>

Your motive for posting advice may well be altruistic. I don't know.

But there's not doubt that your motive in posting recommendations
exclusively thru your affiliate id is to make money.

Hoff

Hoff
March 12th 04, 04:21 PM
"Steve Freides" > wrote in message
...

> Hoff, some of us just aren't destined to go through life quietly. I do my
> best to learn what I can then I call things the way I see them. Some of
the
> folks on DragonDoor don't agree with me on some things - such is life. My
> email address is public; people let me know I'm helping by posting here
> which is why I continue to do it, and likewise on DragonDoor.

Ahh, yes. "The lurkers support me in email". Got it.

> You are, in
> my opinion, a good egg - well-informed, willing to call me if I post
> something you think is wrong, and I have no problems with anything you're
> doing. As I've said before, you're misinformed about my motives but
there's
> nothing I can do about that other than remind you from time to time.
>

Your motive for posting advice may well be altruistic. I don't know.

But there's not doubt that your motive in posting recommendations
exclusively thru your affiliate id is to make money.

Hoff

Pat Styles
March 13th 04, 02:11 AM
"Steve Freides" > wrote in message
...

> You really don't get it, do you? <sigh>.

No, it is clearly you who don't get it. You've been told repeatedly by numerous
people you're posts are inappropriately commercial.

> I pay no attention to the income
> from DragonDoor commissions regarding what I post here. If I think someone
> might benefit from reading a book I've read, I'll give a link to the book.

No, you give a link to your site, from which you benefit financially, and in
which you have a commercial interest. Why not just give a title of a book? Why
not refer people to amazon or b&n as it has been repeatedly pointed out the
books you recommend are substantially cheaper there?

> If it's "cyclical" it may just be, well, I don't know what it may just be.
> I haven't been reading the books themselves much lately. Honest, I don't
> know.

Finally, something I believe. Steve doesn't know much.
ps

Pat Styles
March 13th 04, 02:11 AM
"Steve Freides" > wrote in message
...

> You really don't get it, do you? <sigh>.

No, it is clearly you who don't get it. You've been told repeatedly by numerous
people you're posts are inappropriately commercial.

> I pay no attention to the income
> from DragonDoor commissions regarding what I post here. If I think someone
> might benefit from reading a book I've read, I'll give a link to the book.

No, you give a link to your site, from which you benefit financially, and in
which you have a commercial interest. Why not just give a title of a book? Why
not refer people to amazon or b&n as it has been repeatedly pointed out the
books you recommend are substantially cheaper there?

> If it's "cyclical" it may just be, well, I don't know what it may just be.
> I haven't been reading the books themselves much lately. Honest, I don't
> know.

Finally, something I believe. Steve doesn't know much.
ps

DeWayne
March 13th 04, 02:03 PM
"Stephen Mulholland" > wrote in message
om...
> (Andreas M) wrote in message
>...
>
> <snip forearm/elbow tendonitis tale of woe>
>
> I posted this last night from home, but it doesn't seem to have got to
> mfw, so I'll post it again, apologies if it turns out to be a
> duplicate post. It was originally a response to a similar question
> posed a while ago.
>
>
>
> I have a suggestion. This worked for me, but that's not to say it
> will work for you. It's worth a try, though.
>
> I was plagued with elbow tendonitis for quite a while. I could feel
> the inflammation in the tendons just above my elbow, and right down
> into my forearm. I've mentioned here before that I thought the injury
> was caused by my overdoing it on db rows during the 15-rep portion af
> a HST routine, but I could be wrong about that. I couldn't do pullups
> or rows without pain. I had an enforced layoff from the gym for quite
> a few months, and even that length of rest didn't clear the problem
> up. I also had a few physiotherapy sessions, but not enough to clear
> the problem completely. Of course, I tried the anti-inflammatory
> route too.
>
> Anyway, this is what cleared the problem up COMPLETELY in less than
> three weeks. I was rummaging about in the attic one day, and found a
> little wooden massager. It looked much like this :
>
> http://tinyurl.com/2gz4s
>
> but instead of having one long rolling part between the "horns" of the
> handle, it has four wooden balls on an axle which runs between the
> horns of the handle. I've searched about but can't find a pic of the
> exact same massager. I started working on my forearm. I rubbed some
> ibuprofen gel on to my forearm, and massaged my forearm up and down
> its length. I wasn't gentle, either, it hurt quite a bit. I did this
> for about ten minutes, paying particular attention to the areas just
> above and just below my elbow. Then I started above the elbow, same
> process, ibuprofen gel and HARD massage on the area where the

Can you buy ibuprofen gel? Or do you have to get the gel caps and open them.
I went to three places this morning and all I could find was the gel caps.

DeWayne

> inflasmmation was the worst. I followed the treatment with icepacks
> on the tender area. Next day, my forearm was really sore, so I left
> off treatment for a couple of days, then started again. A week later,
> the long-term tenderness I'd suffered had almost left my forearm. Two
> weeks later, the longterm inflammation above my elbow had almost
> disappeared. Three weeks later, and I was completely pain-free.
>
> Of course, your tendonitis may well be affecting different tendons -
> my main problem was brachioradialis tendon, IIRC what the physio said,
> but my suggestion might be worth trying.
>
> Stephen

DeWayne
March 13th 04, 02:03 PM
"Stephen Mulholland" > wrote in message
om...
> (Andreas M) wrote in message
>...
>
> <snip forearm/elbow tendonitis tale of woe>
>
> I posted this last night from home, but it doesn't seem to have got to
> mfw, so I'll post it again, apologies if it turns out to be a
> duplicate post. It was originally a response to a similar question
> posed a while ago.
>
>
>
> I have a suggestion. This worked for me, but that's not to say it
> will work for you. It's worth a try, though.
>
> I was plagued with elbow tendonitis for quite a while. I could feel
> the inflammation in the tendons just above my elbow, and right down
> into my forearm. I've mentioned here before that I thought the injury
> was caused by my overdoing it on db rows during the 15-rep portion af
> a HST routine, but I could be wrong about that. I couldn't do pullups
> or rows without pain. I had an enforced layoff from the gym for quite
> a few months, and even that length of rest didn't clear the problem
> up. I also had a few physiotherapy sessions, but not enough to clear
> the problem completely. Of course, I tried the anti-inflammatory
> route too.
>
> Anyway, this is what cleared the problem up COMPLETELY in less than
> three weeks. I was rummaging about in the attic one day, and found a
> little wooden massager. It looked much like this :
>
> http://tinyurl.com/2gz4s
>
> but instead of having one long rolling part between the "horns" of the
> handle, it has four wooden balls on an axle which runs between the
> horns of the handle. I've searched about but can't find a pic of the
> exact same massager. I started working on my forearm. I rubbed some
> ibuprofen gel on to my forearm, and massaged my forearm up and down
> its length. I wasn't gentle, either, it hurt quite a bit. I did this
> for about ten minutes, paying particular attention to the areas just
> above and just below my elbow. Then I started above the elbow, same
> process, ibuprofen gel and HARD massage on the area where the

Can you buy ibuprofen gel? Or do you have to get the gel caps and open them.
I went to three places this morning and all I could find was the gel caps.

DeWayne

> inflasmmation was the worst. I followed the treatment with icepacks
> on the tender area. Next day, my forearm was really sore, so I left
> off treatment for a couple of days, then started again. A week later,
> the long-term tenderness I'd suffered had almost left my forearm. Two
> weeks later, the longterm inflammation above my elbow had almost
> disappeared. Three weeks later, and I was completely pain-free.
>
> Of course, your tendonitis may well be affecting different tendons -
> my main problem was brachioradialis tendon, IIRC what the physio said,
> but my suggestion might be worth trying.
>
> Stephen

March 13th 04, 02:28 PM
On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 18:11:03 -0800, "Pat Styles"
> wrote:

>
>"Steve Freides" > wrote in message
...
>
>> You really don't get it, do you? <sigh>.
>
>No, it is clearly you who don't get it. You've been told repeatedly by numerous
>people you're posts are inappropriately commercial.
>
>> I pay no attention to the income
>> from DragonDoor commissions regarding what I post here. If I think someone
>> might benefit from reading a book I've read, I'll give a link to the book.
>
>No, you give a link to your site, from which you benefit financially, and in
>which you have a commercial interest. Why not just give a title of a book? Why
>not refer people to amazon or b&n as it has been repeatedly pointed out the
>books you recommend are substantially cheaper there?
>
>> If it's "cyclical" it may just be, well, I don't know what it may just be.
>> I haven't been reading the books themselves much lately. Honest, I don't
>> know.
>
>Finally, something I believe. Steve doesn't know much.
>ps

Since we're into a deju vu all over again mode, let's revisit the MFW
FAQ on advertising.

Generally speaking, commercial advertisements are strongly
discouraged. However, "the contents of a .signature appended to your
articles on the group may contain whatever you wish to put there and
that may include pointers to a commercial website or mention of your
products or services--however, this exception is only applicable if
you're actually posting an article that is otherwise appropriate for
the group."

Does Steve post things relevant to MFW or does he only place ads for
weight-related items? I use KBs (as well as other types of strength
conditioning equipment) because I prefer doing compound exercises with
free weights. I have benefitted from reading Steve's postings (about
KBs and many other topics) and from the personalized training I've
received from him. I'm sure that many others have also benefitted
from the advice and answers he's provided on this NG. In this
context, can he not do what is allowable under the MFW FAQ list?

(I'm certain you will all be much nicer to Steve when you realize that
low KB sales prevented him from buying new shoes for his family. Wish
him good luck next month when the introduction of a new Dragondoor
product line may make it possible for him to purchase new shoes for
everyone + a top-of-the-line Cray supercomputer!)

March 13th 04, 02:28 PM
On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 18:11:03 -0800, "Pat Styles"
> wrote:

>
>"Steve Freides" > wrote in message
...
>
>> You really don't get it, do you? <sigh>.
>
>No, it is clearly you who don't get it. You've been told repeatedly by numerous
>people you're posts are inappropriately commercial.
>
>> I pay no attention to the income
>> from DragonDoor commissions regarding what I post here. If I think someone
>> might benefit from reading a book I've read, I'll give a link to the book.
>
>No, you give a link to your site, from which you benefit financially, and in
>which you have a commercial interest. Why not just give a title of a book? Why
>not refer people to amazon or b&n as it has been repeatedly pointed out the
>books you recommend are substantially cheaper there?
>
>> If it's "cyclical" it may just be, well, I don't know what it may just be.
>> I haven't been reading the books themselves much lately. Honest, I don't
>> know.
>
>Finally, something I believe. Steve doesn't know much.
>ps

Since we're into a deju vu all over again mode, let's revisit the MFW
FAQ on advertising.

Generally speaking, commercial advertisements are strongly
discouraged. However, "the contents of a .signature appended to your
articles on the group may contain whatever you wish to put there and
that may include pointers to a commercial website or mention of your
products or services--however, this exception is only applicable if
you're actually posting an article that is otherwise appropriate for
the group."

Does Steve post things relevant to MFW or does he only place ads for
weight-related items? I use KBs (as well as other types of strength
conditioning equipment) because I prefer doing compound exercises with
free weights. I have benefitted from reading Steve's postings (about
KBs and many other topics) and from the personalized training I've
received from him. I'm sure that many others have also benefitted
from the advice and answers he's provided on this NG. In this
context, can he not do what is allowable under the MFW FAQ list?

(I'm certain you will all be much nicer to Steve when you realize that
low KB sales prevented him from buying new shoes for his family. Wish
him good luck next month when the introduction of a new Dragondoor
product line may make it possible for him to purchase new shoes for
everyone + a top-of-the-line Cray supercomputer!)

Dally
March 13th 04, 02:36 PM
wrote:

> Does Steve post things relevant to MFW or does he only place ads for
> weight-related items? I use KBs (as well as other types of strength
> conditioning equipment) because I prefer doing compound exercises with
> free weights. I have benefitted from reading Steve's postings (about
> KBs and many other topics) and from the personalized training I've
> received from him. I'm sure that many others have also benefitted
> from the advice and answers he's provided on this NG. In this
> context, can he not do what is allowable under the MFW FAQ list?

Well, I don't use kettleballs, but I see absolutely nothing wrong with
him having a sig line that makes it easier for me to find a product that
he says was helpful. Will has a site, Lyle has a site and the only
reason Krista isn't selling anything is because she's too socialist.

Maybe it's just me, but I have no problem with people having something
to sell. OTOH, I never minded Bill Phillips, either. In fact, I
admired the marketing genius of opening up the Fat **** market for
weight-lifting supplements.

Dally, who actually owns EAS creatine for some reason

Dally
March 13th 04, 02:36 PM
wrote:

> Does Steve post things relevant to MFW or does he only place ads for
> weight-related items? I use KBs (as well as other types of strength
> conditioning equipment) because I prefer doing compound exercises with
> free weights. I have benefitted from reading Steve's postings (about
> KBs and many other topics) and from the personalized training I've
> received from him. I'm sure that many others have also benefitted
> from the advice and answers he's provided on this NG. In this
> context, can he not do what is allowable under the MFW FAQ list?

Well, I don't use kettleballs, but I see absolutely nothing wrong with
him having a sig line that makes it easier for me to find a product that
he says was helpful. Will has a site, Lyle has a site and the only
reason Krista isn't selling anything is because she's too socialist.

Maybe it's just me, but I have no problem with people having something
to sell. OTOH, I never minded Bill Phillips, either. In fact, I
admired the marketing genius of opening up the Fat **** market for
weight-lifting supplements.

Dally, who actually owns EAS creatine for some reason

Hoff
March 13th 04, 03:11 PM
> wrote in message
...
>
> Since we're into a deju vu all over again mode, let's revisit the MFW
> FAQ on advertising.
>
> Generally speaking, commercial advertisements are strongly
> discouraged. However, "the contents of a .signature appended to your
> articles on the group may contain whatever you wish to put there and
> that may include pointers to a commercial website or mention of your
> products or services--however, this exception is only applicable if
> you're actually posting an article that is otherwise appropriate for
> the group."
>
> Does Steve post things relevant to MFW or does he only place ads for
> weight-related items? I use KBs (as well as other types of strength
> conditioning equipment) because I prefer doing compound exercises with
> free weights. I have benefitted from reading Steve's postings (about
> KBs and many other topics) and from the personalized training I've
> received from him. I'm sure that many others have also benefitted
> from the advice and answers he's provided on this NG. In this
> context, can he not do what is allowable under the MFW FAQ list?
>

JMO, but I don't really have a problem with Steve's site link in his sig.
Though I think *changing* his sig to contain a specific link to a product he
mentions violates the spirit, if not the letter of the intention of the FAQ.

That's typically not his MO, however. Maybe he felt guilty about changing
the OP's question around in this thread to a topic for which he had a book
link.

Things like his post the other day in the "Ab Tools" thread are more
straight ad's. OP asks for advice; Steve gives a one or two line blurb for
one of Pavel's books, and link using his affiliate id.

Hoff

Hoff
March 13th 04, 03:11 PM
> wrote in message
...
>
> Since we're into a deju vu all over again mode, let's revisit the MFW
> FAQ on advertising.
>
> Generally speaking, commercial advertisements are strongly
> discouraged. However, "the contents of a .signature appended to your
> articles on the group may contain whatever you wish to put there and
> that may include pointers to a commercial website or mention of your
> products or services--however, this exception is only applicable if
> you're actually posting an article that is otherwise appropriate for
> the group."
>
> Does Steve post things relevant to MFW or does he only place ads for
> weight-related items? I use KBs (as well as other types of strength
> conditioning equipment) because I prefer doing compound exercises with
> free weights. I have benefitted from reading Steve's postings (about
> KBs and many other topics) and from the personalized training I've
> received from him. I'm sure that many others have also benefitted
> from the advice and answers he's provided on this NG. In this
> context, can he not do what is allowable under the MFW FAQ list?
>

JMO, but I don't really have a problem with Steve's site link in his sig.
Though I think *changing* his sig to contain a specific link to a product he
mentions violates the spirit, if not the letter of the intention of the FAQ.

That's typically not his MO, however. Maybe he felt guilty about changing
the OP's question around in this thread to a topic for which he had a book
link.

Things like his post the other day in the "Ab Tools" thread are more
straight ad's. OP asks for advice; Steve gives a one or two line blurb for
one of Pavel's books, and link using his affiliate id.

Hoff

Dally
March 13th 04, 03:15 PM
Hoff wrote:

> Things like his post the other day in the "Ab Tools" thread are more
> straight ad's. OP asks for advice; Steve gives a one or two line blurb for
> one of Pavel's books, and link using his affiliate id.

Ah, but did he ghost the original question? That's the only time I
really have a problem with it.

Selling the people what they want to buy isn't a crime, IMO.

Dally

Dally
March 13th 04, 03:15 PM
Hoff wrote:

> Things like his post the other day in the "Ab Tools" thread are more
> straight ad's. OP asks for advice; Steve gives a one or two line blurb for
> one of Pavel's books, and link using his affiliate id.

Ah, but did he ghost the original question? That's the only time I
really have a problem with it.

Selling the people what they want to buy isn't a crime, IMO.

Dally

Chupacabra
March 13th 04, 03:30 PM
On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:11:42 GMT, "Hoff" >
wrote:

> wrote in message
...
>>
>> Since we're into a deju vu all over again mode, let's revisit the MFW
>> FAQ on advertising.
>>
>> Generally speaking, commercial advertisements are strongly
>> discouraged. However, "the contents of a .signature appended to your
>> articles on the group may contain whatever you wish to put there and
>> that may include pointers to a commercial website or mention of your
>> products or services--however, this exception is only applicable if
>> you're actually posting an article that is otherwise appropriate for
>> the group."
>>
>> Does Steve post things relevant to MFW or does he only place ads for
>> weight-related items? I use KBs (as well as other types of strength
>> conditioning equipment) because I prefer doing compound exercises with
>> free weights. I have benefitted from reading Steve's postings (about
>> KBs and many other topics) and from the personalized training I've
>> received from him. I'm sure that many others have also benefitted
>> from the advice and answers he's provided on this NG. In this
>> context, can he not do what is allowable under the MFW FAQ list?
>>
>
>JMO, but I don't really have a problem with Steve's site link in his sig.
>Though I think *changing* his sig to contain a specific link to a product he
>mentions violates the spirit, if not the letter of the intention of the FAQ.
>
>That's typically not his MO, however. Maybe he felt guilty about changing
>the OP's question around in this thread to a topic for which he had a book
>link.
>
>Things like his post the other day in the "Ab Tools" thread are more
>straight ad's. OP asks for advice; Steve gives a one or two line blurb for
>one of Pavel's books, and link using his affiliate id.
>
>Hoff
>

I'd say that's my issue with Steve as well - every possible problem is
solvable through Pavel's wonders, regardless of whether or not they're
actually applicable.

Want to get stronger? Kettlebells. Having knee problems? Super joints.
Car won't start? Naked Warrior. etc...

Chupacabra
March 13th 04, 03:30 PM
On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:11:42 GMT, "Hoff" >
wrote:

> wrote in message
...
>>
>> Since we're into a deju vu all over again mode, let's revisit the MFW
>> FAQ on advertising.
>>
>> Generally speaking, commercial advertisements are strongly
>> discouraged. However, "the contents of a .signature appended to your
>> articles on the group may contain whatever you wish to put there and
>> that may include pointers to a commercial website or mention of your
>> products or services--however, this exception is only applicable if
>> you're actually posting an article that is otherwise appropriate for
>> the group."
>>
>> Does Steve post things relevant to MFW or does he only place ads for
>> weight-related items? I use KBs (as well as other types of strength
>> conditioning equipment) because I prefer doing compound exercises with
>> free weights. I have benefitted from reading Steve's postings (about
>> KBs and many other topics) and from the personalized training I've
>> received from him. I'm sure that many others have also benefitted
>> from the advice and answers he's provided on this NG. In this
>> context, can he not do what is allowable under the MFW FAQ list?
>>
>
>JMO, but I don't really have a problem with Steve's site link in his sig.
>Though I think *changing* his sig to contain a specific link to a product he
>mentions violates the spirit, if not the letter of the intention of the FAQ.
>
>That's typically not his MO, however. Maybe he felt guilty about changing
>the OP's question around in this thread to a topic for which he had a book
>link.
>
>Things like his post the other day in the "Ab Tools" thread are more
>straight ad's. OP asks for advice; Steve gives a one or two line blurb for
>one of Pavel's books, and link using his affiliate id.
>
>Hoff
>

I'd say that's my issue with Steve as well - every possible problem is
solvable through Pavel's wonders, regardless of whether or not they're
actually applicable.

Want to get stronger? Kettlebells. Having knee problems? Super joints.
Car won't start? Naked Warrior. etc...

Dally
March 13th 04, 03:43 PM
Chupacabra wrote:

> On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:11:42 GMT, "Hoff" >
> wrote:

> I'd say that's my issue with Steve as well - every possible problem is
> solvable through Pavel's wonders, regardless of whether or not they're
> actually applicable.
>
> Want to get stronger? Kettlebells. Having knee problems? Super joints.
> Car won't start? Naked Warrior. etc...

LOL, I'll have to look up that use of a Naked Warrior.

I see your point, but I guess I figure he only responds when he has
something to add on the subject. Unlike me, who has been responding to
everything lately in an attempt to procrastinate.

Dally

Dally
March 13th 04, 03:43 PM
Chupacabra wrote:

> On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:11:42 GMT, "Hoff" >
> wrote:

> I'd say that's my issue with Steve as well - every possible problem is
> solvable through Pavel's wonders, regardless of whether or not they're
> actually applicable.
>
> Want to get stronger? Kettlebells. Having knee problems? Super joints.
> Car won't start? Naked Warrior. etc...

LOL, I'll have to look up that use of a Naked Warrior.

I see your point, but I guess I figure he only responds when he has
something to add on the subject. Unlike me, who has been responding to
everything lately in an attempt to procrastinate.

Dally

March 13th 04, 03:59 PM
On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:11:42 GMT, "Hoff" >
wrote:

> wrote in message
...
>>
>> Since we're into a deju vu all over again mode, let's revisit the MFW
>> FAQ on advertising.
>>
>> Generally speaking, commercial advertisements are strongly
>> discouraged. However, "the contents of a .signature appended to your
>> articles on the group may contain whatever you wish to put there and
>> that may include pointers to a commercial website or mention of your
>> products or services--however, this exception is only applicable if
>> you're actually posting an article that is otherwise appropriate for
>> the group."
>>
>> Does Steve post things relevant to MFW or does he only place ads for
>> weight-related items? I use KBs (as well as other types of strength
>> conditioning equipment) because I prefer doing compound exercises with
>> free weights. I have benefitted from reading Steve's postings (about
>> KBs and many other topics) and from the personalized training I've
>> received from him. I'm sure that many others have also benefitted
>> from the advice and answers he's provided on this NG. In this
>> context, can he not do what is allowable under the MFW FAQ list?
>>
>
>JMO, but I don't really have a problem with Steve's site link in his sig.
>Though I think *changing* his sig to contain a specific link to a product he
>mentions violates the spirit, if not the letter of the intention of the FAQ.
>
>That's typically not his MO, however. Maybe he felt guilty about changing
>the OP's question around in this thread to a topic for which he had a book
>link.
>
>Things like his post the other day in the "Ab Tools" thread are more
>straight ad's. OP asks for advice; Steve gives a one or two line blurb for
>one of Pavel's books, and link using his affiliate id.
>
>Hoff

I just checked out the Ab Tools thread. The OP clearly asked for any
advice/explanations. I don't think s/he was asking anyone to confine
his/her remarks to the "swinger" or the "couch trainer."

I own Pavel's Bullet-Proof Abs: Second Edition. (Unlike Steve I only
use the Pavelizer I nowadays (which might explain why my results -
although satisfactory - are much worse than his). I don't know if you
have taken a look at Pavel's Ab book. If you have, I wonder whether
you would agree with me that there's a lot of useful stuff in there.
If you do, I wonder whether you would agree with me that a
reference/link to this book would be relevant to the OP's question.

What do you think? I don't like using free weights for my abs because
I get
a little infrequent back pain due to an old rowing injury. So, which
do you
think is more effective for home use, the swinger, whatever the hell
that
is, or the crunch trainer? Any advice/explanations welcome, cheers.

March 13th 04, 03:59 PM
On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:11:42 GMT, "Hoff" >
wrote:

> wrote in message
...
>>
>> Since we're into a deju vu all over again mode, let's revisit the MFW
>> FAQ on advertising.
>>
>> Generally speaking, commercial advertisements are strongly
>> discouraged. However, "the contents of a .signature appended to your
>> articles on the group may contain whatever you wish to put there and
>> that may include pointers to a commercial website or mention of your
>> products or services--however, this exception is only applicable if
>> you're actually posting an article that is otherwise appropriate for
>> the group."
>>
>> Does Steve post things relevant to MFW or does he only place ads for
>> weight-related items? I use KBs (as well as other types of strength
>> conditioning equipment) because I prefer doing compound exercises with
>> free weights. I have benefitted from reading Steve's postings (about
>> KBs and many other topics) and from the personalized training I've
>> received from him. I'm sure that many others have also benefitted
>> from the advice and answers he's provided on this NG. In this
>> context, can he not do what is allowable under the MFW FAQ list?
>>
>
>JMO, but I don't really have a problem with Steve's site link in his sig.
>Though I think *changing* his sig to contain a specific link to a product he
>mentions violates the spirit, if not the letter of the intention of the FAQ.
>
>That's typically not his MO, however. Maybe he felt guilty about changing
>the OP's question around in this thread to a topic for which he had a book
>link.
>
>Things like his post the other day in the "Ab Tools" thread are more
>straight ad's. OP asks for advice; Steve gives a one or two line blurb for
>one of Pavel's books, and link using his affiliate id.
>
>Hoff

I just checked out the Ab Tools thread. The OP clearly asked for any
advice/explanations. I don't think s/he was asking anyone to confine
his/her remarks to the "swinger" or the "couch trainer."

I own Pavel's Bullet-Proof Abs: Second Edition. (Unlike Steve I only
use the Pavelizer I nowadays (which might explain why my results -
although satisfactory - are much worse than his). I don't know if you
have taken a look at Pavel's Ab book. If you have, I wonder whether
you would agree with me that there's a lot of useful stuff in there.
If you do, I wonder whether you would agree with me that a
reference/link to this book would be relevant to the OP's question.

What do you think? I don't like using free weights for my abs because
I get
a little infrequent back pain due to an old rowing injury. So, which
do you
think is more effective for home use, the swinger, whatever the hell
that
is, or the crunch trainer? Any advice/explanations welcome, cheers.

Hoff
March 13th 04, 04:06 PM
"Dally" > wrote in message
...
> Hoff wrote:
>
> > Things like his post the other day in the "Ab Tools" thread are more
> > straight ad's. OP asks for advice; Steve gives a one or two line blurb
for
> > one of Pavel's books, and link using his affiliate id.
>
> Ah, but did he ghost the original question? That's the only time I
> really have a problem with it.
>
> Selling the people what they want to buy isn't a crime, IMO.

Crime? No. Just check out the tube at 3am. More infomercials than you can
count.

Sure, why the hell not, Wendy. Let the spammers at it. Let Steve compete
with the bowflex/crossbow/Body by Jake hucksters on every post.

Instead of Lyle answering questions, just have him post links to his books.

Gotta admit, sounds like the kind of place I want to get advice from.

Hoff

Hoff
March 13th 04, 04:06 PM
"Dally" > wrote in message
...
> Hoff wrote:
>
> > Things like his post the other day in the "Ab Tools" thread are more
> > straight ad's. OP asks for advice; Steve gives a one or two line blurb
for
> > one of Pavel's books, and link using his affiliate id.
>
> Ah, but did he ghost the original question? That's the only time I
> really have a problem with it.
>
> Selling the people what they want to buy isn't a crime, IMO.

Crime? No. Just check out the tube at 3am. More infomercials than you can
count.

Sure, why the hell not, Wendy. Let the spammers at it. Let Steve compete
with the bowflex/crossbow/Body by Jake hucksters on every post.

Instead of Lyle answering questions, just have him post links to his books.

Gotta admit, sounds like the kind of place I want to get advice from.

Hoff

Dally
March 13th 04, 04:10 PM
Hoff wrote:
> "Dally" > wrote:
>>Hoff wrote:
>>
>>>Things like his post the other day in the "Ab Tools" thread are more
>>>straight ad's. OP asks for advice; Steve gives a one or two line blurb
>>for >one of Pavel's books, and link using his affiliate id.
>>
>>Ah, but did he ghost the original question? That's the only time I
>>really have a problem with it.
>>
>>Selling the people what they want to buy isn't a crime, IMO.
>
> Crime? No. Just check out the tube at 3am. More infomercials than you can
> count.
>
> Sure, why the hell not, Wendy. Let the spammers at it. Let Steve compete
> with the bowflex/crossbow/Body by Jake hucksters on every post.

Well, as far as I know, he already does. I've got a fairly robust
kill-file. :-)

But I see your point. And your railing against spam will tend to keep
it from getting too egregious.

> Instead of Lyle answering questions, just have him post links to his books.

I've actually always appreciated when he throws us a chapter, actually!

> Gotta admit, sounds like the kind of place I want to get advice from.

Oh, God, were we supposed to be giving advice? (Slaps side of head.)

Dally

Dally
March 13th 04, 04:10 PM
Hoff wrote:
> "Dally" > wrote:
>>Hoff wrote:
>>
>>>Things like his post the other day in the "Ab Tools" thread are more
>>>straight ad's. OP asks for advice; Steve gives a one or two line blurb
>>for >one of Pavel's books, and link using his affiliate id.
>>
>>Ah, but did he ghost the original question? That's the only time I
>>really have a problem with it.
>>
>>Selling the people what they want to buy isn't a crime, IMO.
>
> Crime? No. Just check out the tube at 3am. More infomercials than you can
> count.
>
> Sure, why the hell not, Wendy. Let the spammers at it. Let Steve compete
> with the bowflex/crossbow/Body by Jake hucksters on every post.

Well, as far as I know, he already does. I've got a fairly robust
kill-file. :-)

But I see your point. And your railing against spam will tend to keep
it from getting too egregious.

> Instead of Lyle answering questions, just have him post links to his books.

I've actually always appreciated when he throws us a chapter, actually!

> Gotta admit, sounds like the kind of place I want to get advice from.

Oh, God, were we supposed to be giving advice? (Slaps side of head.)

Dally

DRS
March 13th 04, 04:18 PM
Hoff > wrote in message
[email protected]_s52

[...]

> JMO, but I don't really have a problem with Steve's site link in his
> sig. Though I think *changing* his sig to contain a specific link to
> a product he mentions violates the spirit, if not the letter of the
> intention of the FAQ.

Rubbish. He can do whatever he wants with his sig.

--

"I'm proud that I live in a country where witnessing two hours of bloody,
barbarous torture in gloating detail is considered indicia of religious
piety, whereas a mere second gazing upon a woman's breast is cause for
outraged apoplexy."
Betty Bowers, http://www.bettybowers.com/melgibsonpassion.html

DRS
March 13th 04, 04:18 PM
Hoff > wrote in message
[email protected]_s52

[...]

> JMO, but I don't really have a problem with Steve's site link in his
> sig. Though I think *changing* his sig to contain a specific link to
> a product he mentions violates the spirit, if not the letter of the
> intention of the FAQ.

Rubbish. He can do whatever he wants with his sig.

--

"I'm proud that I live in a country where witnessing two hours of bloody,
barbarous torture in gloating detail is considered indicia of religious
piety, whereas a mere second gazing upon a woman's breast is cause for
outraged apoplexy."
Betty Bowers, http://www.bettybowers.com/melgibsonpassion.html

Hoff
March 13th 04, 04:19 PM
> wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:11:42 GMT, "Hoff" >
> wrote:
>
> > wrote in message
> ...
> >>
> >> Since we're into a deju vu all over again mode, let's revisit the MFW
> >> FAQ on advertising.
> >>
> >> Generally speaking, commercial advertisements are strongly
> >> discouraged. However, "the contents of a .signature appended to your
> >> articles on the group may contain whatever you wish to put there and
> >> that may include pointers to a commercial website or mention of your
> >> products or services--however, this exception is only applicable if
> >> you're actually posting an article that is otherwise appropriate for
> >> the group."
> >>
> >> Does Steve post things relevant to MFW or does he only place ads for
> >> weight-related items? I use KBs (as well as other types of strength
> >> conditioning equipment) because I prefer doing compound exercises with
> >> free weights. I have benefitted from reading Steve's postings (about
> >> KBs and many other topics) and from the personalized training I've
> >> received from him. I'm sure that many others have also benefitted
> >> from the advice and answers he's provided on this NG. In this
> >> context, can he not do what is allowable under the MFW FAQ list?
> >>
> >
> >JMO, but I don't really have a problem with Steve's site link in his sig.
> >Though I think *changing* his sig to contain a specific link to a product
he
> >mentions violates the spirit, if not the letter of the intention of the
FAQ.
> >
> >That's typically not his MO, however. Maybe he felt guilty about
changing
> >the OP's question around in this thread to a topic for which he had a
book
> >link.
> >
> >Things like his post the other day in the "Ab Tools" thread are more
> >straight ad's. OP asks for advice; Steve gives a one or two line blurb
for
> >one of Pavel's books, and link using his affiliate id.
> >
> >Hoff
>
> I just checked out the Ab Tools thread. The OP clearly asked for any
> advice/explanations. I don't think s/he was asking anyone to confine
> his/her remarks to the "swinger" or the "couch trainer."
>
> I own Pavel's Bullet-Proof Abs: Second Edition. (Unlike Steve I only
> use the Pavelizer I nowadays (which might explain why my results -
> although satisfactory - are much worse than his). I don't know if you
> have taken a look at Pavel's Ab book. If you have, I wonder whether
> you would agree with me that there's a lot of useful stuff in there.
> If you do, I wonder whether you would agree with me that a
> reference/link to this book would be relevant to the OP's question.
>

Could be. Not the point.

Steve *could* have told what I did, how he has approached it, etc. Instead,
he posted a link to a book where he'll make money.

But sure, why the **** not? Lyle needs to stop actually posting
information, and just tell people to buy his ****ing books. Krista can
charge for access to her website.

For that matter, let's all just sign up for "affiliate programs". Instead
of anyone actually answering a question, just post links to books or info
where we can make a buck.

Hell of an idea, "damifino".

Hoff

Hoff
March 13th 04, 04:19 PM
> wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:11:42 GMT, "Hoff" >
> wrote:
>
> > wrote in message
> ...
> >>
> >> Since we're into a deju vu all over again mode, let's revisit the MFW
> >> FAQ on advertising.
> >>
> >> Generally speaking, commercial advertisements are strongly
> >> discouraged. However, "the contents of a .signature appended to your
> >> articles on the group may contain whatever you wish to put there and
> >> that may include pointers to a commercial website or mention of your
> >> products or services--however, this exception is only applicable if
> >> you're actually posting an article that is otherwise appropriate for
> >> the group."
> >>
> >> Does Steve post things relevant to MFW or does he only place ads for
> >> weight-related items? I use KBs (as well as other types of strength
> >> conditioning equipment) because I prefer doing compound exercises with
> >> free weights. I have benefitted from reading Steve's postings (about
> >> KBs and many other topics) and from the personalized training I've
> >> received from him. I'm sure that many others have also benefitted
> >> from the advice and answers he's provided on this NG. In this
> >> context, can he not do what is allowable under the MFW FAQ list?
> >>
> >
> >JMO, but I don't really have a problem with Steve's site link in his sig.
> >Though I think *changing* his sig to contain a specific link to a product
he
> >mentions violates the spirit, if not the letter of the intention of the
FAQ.
> >
> >That's typically not his MO, however. Maybe he felt guilty about
changing
> >the OP's question around in this thread to a topic for which he had a
book
> >link.
> >
> >Things like his post the other day in the "Ab Tools" thread are more
> >straight ad's. OP asks for advice; Steve gives a one or two line blurb
for
> >one of Pavel's books, and link using his affiliate id.
> >
> >Hoff
>
> I just checked out the Ab Tools thread. The OP clearly asked for any
> advice/explanations. I don't think s/he was asking anyone to confine
> his/her remarks to the "swinger" or the "couch trainer."
>
> I own Pavel's Bullet-Proof Abs: Second Edition. (Unlike Steve I only
> use the Pavelizer I nowadays (which might explain why my results -
> although satisfactory - are much worse than his). I don't know if you
> have taken a look at Pavel's Ab book. If you have, I wonder whether
> you would agree with me that there's a lot of useful stuff in there.
> If you do, I wonder whether you would agree with me that a
> reference/link to this book would be relevant to the OP's question.
>

Could be. Not the point.

Steve *could* have told what I did, how he has approached it, etc. Instead,
he posted a link to a book where he'll make money.

But sure, why the **** not? Lyle needs to stop actually posting
information, and just tell people to buy his ****ing books. Krista can
charge for access to her website.

For that matter, let's all just sign up for "affiliate programs". Instead
of anyone actually answering a question, just post links to books or info
where we can make a buck.

Hell of an idea, "damifino".

Hoff

Proton Soup
March 13th 04, 04:38 PM
On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 14:28:34 GMT, wrote:

>On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 18:11:03 -0800, "Pat Styles"
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Steve Freides" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>> You really don't get it, do you? <sigh>.
>>
>>No, it is clearly you who don't get it. You've been told repeatedly by numerous
>>people you're posts are inappropriately commercial.
>>
>>> I pay no attention to the income
>>> from DragonDoor commissions regarding what I post here. If I think someone
>>> might benefit from reading a book I've read, I'll give a link to the book.
>>
>>No, you give a link to your site, from which you benefit financially, and in
>>which you have a commercial interest. Why not just give a title of a book? Why
>>not refer people to amazon or b&n as it has been repeatedly pointed out the
>>books you recommend are substantially cheaper there?
>>
>>> If it's "cyclical" it may just be, well, I don't know what it may just be.
>>> I haven't been reading the books themselves much lately. Honest, I don't
>>> know.
>>
>>Finally, something I believe. Steve doesn't know much.
>>ps
>
>Since we're into a deju vu all over again mode, let's revisit the MFW
>FAQ on advertising.
>
>Generally speaking, commercial advertisements are strongly
>discouraged. However, "the contents of a .signature appended to your
>articles on the group may contain whatever you wish to put there and
>that may include pointers to a commercial website or mention of your
>products or services--however, this exception is only applicable if
>you're actually posting an article that is otherwise appropriate for
>the group."

>Does Steve post things relevant to MFW or does he only place ads for
>weight-related items? I use KBs (as well as other types of strength

That's a really stupid question. Posting relevant in MFW half the
time does not give you license to post ads the other half.
Interrupting every other thread to mention a dragondoor product and
inserting a link that goes through your affiliate ID is NOT keeping
it in your .sig file.

>conditioning equipment) because I prefer doing compound exercises with
>free weights. I have benefitted from reading Steve's postings (about
>KBs and many other topics) and from the personalized training I've
>received from him. I'm sure that many others have also benefitted
>from the advice and answers he's provided on this NG. In this
>context, can he not do what is allowable under the MFW FAQ list?

From what I've seen, Steve does not keep it in his .sig file.

>(I'm certain you will all be much nicer to Steve when you realize that
>low KB sales prevented him from buying new shoes for his family. Wish
>him good luck next month when the introduction of a new Dragondoor
>product line may make it possible for him to purchase new shoes for
>everyone + a top-of-the-line Cray supercomputer!)

Oh shut the **** up you shill. Steve is the most tolerated spammer
here. Rarely if ever does he get a broken coke bottle invitation.

Proton Soup

Proton Soup
March 13th 04, 04:38 PM
On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 14:28:34 GMT, wrote:

>On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 18:11:03 -0800, "Pat Styles"
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Steve Freides" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>> You really don't get it, do you? <sigh>.
>>
>>No, it is clearly you who don't get it. You've been told repeatedly by numerous
>>people you're posts are inappropriately commercial.
>>
>>> I pay no attention to the income
>>> from DragonDoor commissions regarding what I post here. If I think someone
>>> might benefit from reading a book I've read, I'll give a link to the book.
>>
>>No, you give a link to your site, from which you benefit financially, and in
>>which you have a commercial interest. Why not just give a title of a book? Why
>>not refer people to amazon or b&n as it has been repeatedly pointed out the
>>books you recommend are substantially cheaper there?
>>
>>> If it's "cyclical" it may just be, well, I don't know what it may just be.
>>> I haven't been reading the books themselves much lately. Honest, I don't
>>> know.
>>
>>Finally, something I believe. Steve doesn't know much.
>>ps
>
>Since we're into a deju vu all over again mode, let's revisit the MFW
>FAQ on advertising.
>
>Generally speaking, commercial advertisements are strongly
>discouraged. However, "the contents of a .signature appended to your
>articles on the group may contain whatever you wish to put there and
>that may include pointers to a commercial website or mention of your
>products or services--however, this exception is only applicable if
>you're actually posting an article that is otherwise appropriate for
>the group."

>Does Steve post things relevant to MFW or does he only place ads for
>weight-related items? I use KBs (as well as other types of strength

That's a really stupid question. Posting relevant in MFW half the
time does not give you license to post ads the other half.
Interrupting every other thread to mention a dragondoor product and
inserting a link that goes through your affiliate ID is NOT keeping
it in your .sig file.

>conditioning equipment) because I prefer doing compound exercises with
>free weights. I have benefitted from reading Steve's postings (about
>KBs and many other topics) and from the personalized training I've
>received from him. I'm sure that many others have also benefitted
>from the advice and answers he's provided on this NG. In this
>context, can he not do what is allowable under the MFW FAQ list?

From what I've seen, Steve does not keep it in his .sig file.

>(I'm certain you will all be much nicer to Steve when you realize that
>low KB sales prevented him from buying new shoes for his family. Wish
>him good luck next month when the introduction of a new Dragondoor
>product line may make it possible for him to purchase new shoes for
>everyone + a top-of-the-line Cray supercomputer!)

Oh shut the **** up you shill. Steve is the most tolerated spammer
here. Rarely if ever does he get a broken coke bottle invitation.

Proton Soup

Proton Soup
March 13th 04, 04:44 PM
On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 09:36:15 -0500, Dally > wrote:

wrote:
>
> > Does Steve post things relevant to MFW or does he only place ads for
>> weight-related items? I use KBs (as well as other types of strength
>> conditioning equipment) because I prefer doing compound exercises with
>> free weights. I have benefitted from reading Steve's postings (about
>> KBs and many other topics) and from the personalized training I've
>> received from him. I'm sure that many others have also benefitted
>> from the advice and answers he's provided on this NG. In this
>> context, can he not do what is allowable under the MFW FAQ list?
>
>Well, I don't use kettleballs, but I see absolutely nothing wrong with
>him having a sig line that makes it easier for me to find a product that
>he says was helpful. Will has a site, Lyle has a site and the only
>reason Krista isn't selling anything is because she's too socialist.

I've never seen Lyle advertise here. Not even a .sig file.

>Maybe it's just me, but I have no problem with people having something
>to sell. OTOH, I never minded Bill Phillips, either. In fact, I
>admired the marketing genius of opening up the Fat **** market for
>weight-lifting supplements.

That's not the point. Adhering to the MFW charter is not promoting
communism. There's always banner ads, or even the Usenet groups
dedicated to commercialism.

>Dally, who actually owns EAS creatine for some reason

Proton Soup

Proton Soup
March 13th 04, 04:44 PM
On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 09:36:15 -0500, Dally > wrote:

wrote:
>
> > Does Steve post things relevant to MFW or does he only place ads for
>> weight-related items? I use KBs (as well as other types of strength
>> conditioning equipment) because I prefer doing compound exercises with
>> free weights. I have benefitted from reading Steve's postings (about
>> KBs and many other topics) and from the personalized training I've
>> received from him. I'm sure that many others have also benefitted
>> from the advice and answers he's provided on this NG. In this
>> context, can he not do what is allowable under the MFW FAQ list?
>
>Well, I don't use kettleballs, but I see absolutely nothing wrong with
>him having a sig line that makes it easier for me to find a product that
>he says was helpful. Will has a site, Lyle has a site and the only
>reason Krista isn't selling anything is because she's too socialist.

I've never seen Lyle advertise here. Not even a .sig file.

>Maybe it's just me, but I have no problem with people having something
>to sell. OTOH, I never minded Bill Phillips, either. In fact, I
>admired the marketing genius of opening up the Fat **** market for
>weight-lifting supplements.

That's not the point. Adhering to the MFW charter is not promoting
communism. There's always banner ads, or even the Usenet groups
dedicated to commercialism.

>Dally, who actually owns EAS creatine for some reason

Proton Soup

Pat Styles
March 13th 04, 04:48 PM
> wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 18:11:03 -0800, "Pat Styles"
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >"Steve Freides" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >> You really don't get it, do you? <sigh>.
> >
> >No, it is clearly you who don't get it. You've been told repeatedly by
numerous
> >people you're posts are inappropriately commercial.
> >
> >> I pay no attention to the income
> >> from DragonDoor commissions regarding what I post here. If I think someone
> >> might benefit from reading a book I've read, I'll give a link to the book.
> >
> >No, you give a link to your site, from which you benefit financially, and in
> >which you have a commercial interest. Why not just give a title of a book?
Why
> >not refer people to amazon or b&n as it has been repeatedly pointed out the
> >books you recommend are substantially cheaper there?
> >
> >> If it's "cyclical" it may just be, well, I don't know what it may just be.
> >> I haven't been reading the books themselves much lately. Honest, I don't
> >> know.
> >
> >Finally, something I believe. Steve doesn't know much.
> >ps
>
> Since we're into a deju vu all over again mode, let's revisit the MFW
> FAQ on advertising.
>
> Generally speaking, commercial advertisements are strongly
> discouraged.

You have a keen grasp of the obvious.

> However, "the contents of a .signature appended to your
> articles on the group may contain whatever you wish to put there and
> that may include pointers to a commercial website or mention of your
> products or services--however, this exception is only applicable if
> you're actually posting an article that is otherwise appropriate for
> the group."

Hm, maybe not so keen. Did I say anything about his sig? The objection was to
his pointing people to his site, in which he has a commercial and financial
interest, when he could simply recommend a book or let them know the book is
available at other sites than his for significantly less. ngfywabcb, b.
ps

Pat Styles
March 13th 04, 04:48 PM
> wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 18:11:03 -0800, "Pat Styles"
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >"Steve Freides" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >> You really don't get it, do you? <sigh>.
> >
> >No, it is clearly you who don't get it. You've been told repeatedly by
numerous
> >people you're posts are inappropriately commercial.
> >
> >> I pay no attention to the income
> >> from DragonDoor commissions regarding what I post here. If I think someone
> >> might benefit from reading a book I've read, I'll give a link to the book.
> >
> >No, you give a link to your site, from which you benefit financially, and in
> >which you have a commercial interest. Why not just give a title of a book?
Why
> >not refer people to amazon or b&n as it has been repeatedly pointed out the
> >books you recommend are substantially cheaper there?
> >
> >> If it's "cyclical" it may just be, well, I don't know what it may just be.
> >> I haven't been reading the books themselves much lately. Honest, I don't
> >> know.
> >
> >Finally, something I believe. Steve doesn't know much.
> >ps
>
> Since we're into a deju vu all over again mode, let's revisit the MFW
> FAQ on advertising.
>
> Generally speaking, commercial advertisements are strongly
> discouraged.

You have a keen grasp of the obvious.

> However, "the contents of a .signature appended to your
> articles on the group may contain whatever you wish to put there and
> that may include pointers to a commercial website or mention of your
> products or services--however, this exception is only applicable if
> you're actually posting an article that is otherwise appropriate for
> the group."

Hm, maybe not so keen. Did I say anything about his sig? The objection was to
his pointing people to his site, in which he has a commercial and financial
interest, when he could simply recommend a book or let them know the book is
available at other sites than his for significantly less. ngfywabcb, b.
ps

Proton Soup
March 13th 04, 04:51 PM
On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:59:19 GMT, wrote:

>On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:11:42 GMT, "Hoff" >
>wrote:
>
> wrote in message
...
>>>
>>> Since we're into a deju vu all over again mode, let's revisit the MFW
>>> FAQ on advertising.
>>>
>>> Generally speaking, commercial advertisements are strongly
>>> discouraged. However, "the contents of a .signature appended to your
>>> articles on the group may contain whatever you wish to put there and
>>> that may include pointers to a commercial website or mention of your
>>> products or services--however, this exception is only applicable if
>>> you're actually posting an article that is otherwise appropriate for
>>> the group."
>>>
>>> Does Steve post things relevant to MFW or does he only place ads for
>>> weight-related items? I use KBs (as well as other types of strength
>>> conditioning equipment) because I prefer doing compound exercises with
>>> free weights. I have benefitted from reading Steve's postings (about
>>> KBs and many other topics) and from the personalized training I've
>>> received from him. I'm sure that many others have also benefitted
>>> from the advice and answers he's provided on this NG. In this
>>> context, can he not do what is allowable under the MFW FAQ list?
>>>
>>
>>JMO, but I don't really have a problem with Steve's site link in his sig.
>>Though I think *changing* his sig to contain a specific link to a product he
>>mentions violates the spirit, if not the letter of the intention of the FAQ.
>>
>>That's typically not his MO, however. Maybe he felt guilty about changing
>>the OP's question around in this thread to a topic for which he had a book
>>link.
>>
>>Things like his post the other day in the "Ab Tools" thread are more
>>straight ad's. OP asks for advice; Steve gives a one or two line blurb for
>>one of Pavel's books, and link using his affiliate id.
>>
>>Hoff
>
>I just checked out the Ab Tools thread. The OP clearly asked for any
>advice/explanations. I don't think s/he was asking anyone to confine
>his/her remarks to the "swinger" or the "couch trainer."
>
>I own Pavel's Bullet-Proof Abs: Second Edition. (Unlike Steve I only
>use the Pavelizer I nowadays (which might explain why my results -
>although satisfactory - are much worse than his). I don't know if you
>have taken a look at Pavel's Ab book. If you have, I wonder whether
>you would agree with me that there's a lot of useful stuff in there.
>If you do, I wonder whether you would agree with me that a
>reference/link to this book would be relevant to the OP's question.

So you think people in MFW have an unfair negative attitude toward
Pavel? Could be. Thank Steve for that.

>What do you think? I don't like using free weights for my abs because
>I get
>a little infrequent back pain due to an old rowing injury. So, which
>do you
>think is more effective for home use, the swinger, whatever the hell
>that
>is, or the crunch trainer? Any advice/explanations welcome, cheers.

Go smoke a super joint.

Proton Soup

Proton Soup
March 13th 04, 04:51 PM
On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:59:19 GMT, wrote:

>On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:11:42 GMT, "Hoff" >
>wrote:
>
> wrote in message
...
>>>
>>> Since we're into a deju vu all over again mode, let's revisit the MFW
>>> FAQ on advertising.
>>>
>>> Generally speaking, commercial advertisements are strongly
>>> discouraged. However, "the contents of a .signature appended to your
>>> articles on the group may contain whatever you wish to put there and
>>> that may include pointers to a commercial website or mention of your
>>> products or services--however, this exception is only applicable if
>>> you're actually posting an article that is otherwise appropriate for
>>> the group."
>>>
>>> Does Steve post things relevant to MFW or does he only place ads for
>>> weight-related items? I use KBs (as well as other types of strength
>>> conditioning equipment) because I prefer doing compound exercises with
>>> free weights. I have benefitted from reading Steve's postings (about
>>> KBs and many other topics) and from the personalized training I've
>>> received from him. I'm sure that many others have also benefitted
>>> from the advice and answers he's provided on this NG. In this
>>> context, can he not do what is allowable under the MFW FAQ list?
>>>
>>
>>JMO, but I don't really have a problem with Steve's site link in his sig.
>>Though I think *changing* his sig to contain a specific link to a product he
>>mentions violates the spirit, if not the letter of the intention of the FAQ.
>>
>>That's typically not his MO, however. Maybe he felt guilty about changing
>>the OP's question around in this thread to a topic for which he had a book
>>link.
>>
>>Things like his post the other day in the "Ab Tools" thread are more
>>straight ad's. OP asks for advice; Steve gives a one or two line blurb for
>>one of Pavel's books, and link using his affiliate id.
>>
>>Hoff
>
>I just checked out the Ab Tools thread. The OP clearly asked for any
>advice/explanations. I don't think s/he was asking anyone to confine
>his/her remarks to the "swinger" or the "couch trainer."
>
>I own Pavel's Bullet-Proof Abs: Second Edition. (Unlike Steve I only
>use the Pavelizer I nowadays (which might explain why my results -
>although satisfactory - are much worse than his). I don't know if you
>have taken a look at Pavel's Ab book. If you have, I wonder whether
>you would agree with me that there's a lot of useful stuff in there.
>If you do, I wonder whether you would agree with me that a
>reference/link to this book would be relevant to the OP's question.

So you think people in MFW have an unfair negative attitude toward
Pavel? Could be. Thank Steve for that.

>What do you think? I don't like using free weights for my abs because
>I get
>a little infrequent back pain due to an old rowing injury. So, which
>do you
>think is more effective for home use, the swinger, whatever the hell
>that
>is, or the crunch trainer? Any advice/explanations welcome, cheers.

Go smoke a super joint.

Proton Soup

Dally
March 13th 04, 06:03 PM
Proton Soup wrote:

> On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 09:36:15 -0500, Dally > wrote:
>
>>Well, I don't use kettleballs, but I see absolutely nothing wrong with
>>him having a sig line that makes it easier for me to find a product that
>>he says was helpful. Will has a site, Lyle has a site and the only
>>reason Krista isn't selling anything is because she's too socialist.
>
> I've never seen Lyle advertise here. Not even a .sig file.

You're right. But I wished he had. It took me forever to find his
bodyrecomposition website. I was trying to buy his book. It doesn't
seem like a problem to show it and if someone wants it they can find it
and if they don't, well, no one forces them to click on the link.

Doesn't matter, I agree that spam is bad. You concede that sig files
are tolerable. We're only differing on whether we happen to be
irritated by Freides. I'm not, but don't really care if you are.

Dally

Dally
March 13th 04, 06:03 PM
Proton Soup wrote:

> On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 09:36:15 -0500, Dally > wrote:
>
>>Well, I don't use kettleballs, but I see absolutely nothing wrong with
>>him having a sig line that makes it easier for me to find a product that
>>he says was helpful. Will has a site, Lyle has a site and the only
>>reason Krista isn't selling anything is because she's too socialist.
>
> I've never seen Lyle advertise here. Not even a .sig file.

You're right. But I wished he had. It took me forever to find his
bodyrecomposition website. I was trying to buy his book. It doesn't
seem like a problem to show it and if someone wants it they can find it
and if they don't, well, no one forces them to click on the link.

Doesn't matter, I agree that spam is bad. You concede that sig files
are tolerable. We're only differing on whether we happen to be
irritated by Freides. I'm not, but don't really care if you are.

Dally

March 13th 04, 06:23 PM
On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 16:19:50 GMT, "Hoff" >
wrote:

> wrote in message
...
>> On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:11:42 GMT, "Hoff" >
>> wrote:
>>
>> > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >>
>> >> Since we're into a deju vu all over again mode, let's revisit the MFW
>> >> FAQ on advertising.
>> >>
>> >> Generally speaking, commercial advertisements are strongly
>> >> discouraged. However, "the contents of a .signature appended to your
>> >> articles on the group may contain whatever you wish to put there and
>> >> that may include pointers to a commercial website or mention of your
>> >> products or services--however, this exception is only applicable if
>> >> you're actually posting an article that is otherwise appropriate for
>> >> the group."
>> >>
>> >> Does Steve post things relevant to MFW or does he only place ads for
>> >> weight-related items? I use KBs (as well as other types of strength
>> >> conditioning equipment) because I prefer doing compound exercises with
>> >> free weights. I have benefitted from reading Steve's postings (about
>> >> KBs and many other topics) and from the personalized training I've
>> >> received from him. I'm sure that many others have also benefitted
>> >> from the advice and answers he's provided on this NG. In this
>> >> context, can he not do what is allowable under the MFW FAQ list?
>> >>
>> >
>> >JMO, but I don't really have a problem with Steve's site link in his sig.
>> >Though I think *changing* his sig to contain a specific link to a product
>he
>> >mentions violates the spirit, if not the letter of the intention of the
>FAQ.
>> >
>> >That's typically not his MO, however. Maybe he felt guilty about
>changing
>> >the OP's question around in this thread to a topic for which he had a
>book
>> >link.
>> >
>> >Things like his post the other day in the "Ab Tools" thread are more
>> >straight ad's. OP asks for advice; Steve gives a one or two line blurb
>for
>> >one of Pavel's books, and link using his affiliate id.
>> >
>> >Hoff
>>
>> I just checked out the Ab Tools thread. The OP clearly asked for any
>> advice/explanations. I don't think s/he was asking anyone to confine
>> his/her remarks to the "swinger" or the "couch trainer."
>>
>> I own Pavel's Bullet-Proof Abs: Second Edition. (Unlike Steve I only
>> use the Pavelizer I nowadays (which might explain why my results -
>> although satisfactory - are much worse than his). I don't know if you
>> have taken a look at Pavel's Ab book. If you have, I wonder whether
>> you would agree with me that there's a lot of useful stuff in there.
>> If you do, I wonder whether you would agree with me that a
>> reference/link to this book would be relevant to the OP's question.
>>
>
>Could be. Not the point.
>
>Steve *could* have told what I did, how he has approached it, etc. Instead,
>he posted a link to a book where he'll make money.
>
>But sure, why the **** not? Lyle needs to stop actually posting
>information, and just tell people to buy his ****ing books. Krista can
>charge for access to her website.
>
>For that matter, let's all just sign up for "affiliate programs". Instead
>of anyone actually answering a question, just post links to books or info
>where we can make a buck.
>
>Hell of an idea, "damifino".
>
>Hoff

I bet if I took the time to research this issue, I'd see that Steve
often posts lengthy replies containing very specific information. I
bet I'd also find that the number of words contained in his replies
significantly exceeds the vast majority of posts to MFW, including
yours. You may not agree with many things he says; I might. That's
not the issue. We're talking about whether Steve merely posts links
to books instead of answering questions.

I wouldn't mind in the slightest if Lyle tells people where they can
buy his books as long as he continues to post information relevant to
the thread in question. I wouldn't consider that spamming or
advertisement that violates the MFW chater. If Krista wants to
charge for access to her website, that's her business. I hope she
doesn't, but again that's her choice. If she does, I hope she
continues posting helpful information here.

More than anyone, I suppose I'm guilty of directing people to URLs
instead of posting lengthy or informative replies. I make no money by
doing this and I think I'm contributing something so I suppose I'll
continue.

Gee, I hope no one makes any money by going to any of the urls I post!

March 13th 04, 06:23 PM
On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 16:19:50 GMT, "Hoff" >
wrote:

> wrote in message
...
>> On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:11:42 GMT, "Hoff" >
>> wrote:
>>
>> > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >>
>> >> Since we're into a deju vu all over again mode, let's revisit the MFW
>> >> FAQ on advertising.
>> >>
>> >> Generally speaking, commercial advertisements are strongly
>> >> discouraged. However, "the contents of a .signature appended to your
>> >> articles on the group may contain whatever you wish to put there and
>> >> that may include pointers to a commercial website or mention of your
>> >> products or services--however, this exception is only applicable if
>> >> you're actually posting an article that is otherwise appropriate for
>> >> the group."
>> >>
>> >> Does Steve post things relevant to MFW or does he only place ads for
>> >> weight-related items? I use KBs (as well as other types of strength
>> >> conditioning equipment) because I prefer doing compound exercises with
>> >> free weights. I have benefitted from reading Steve's postings (about
>> >> KBs and many other topics) and from the personalized training I've
>> >> received from him. I'm sure that many others have also benefitted
>> >> from the advice and answers he's provided on this NG. In this
>> >> context, can he not do what is allowable under the MFW FAQ list?
>> >>
>> >
>> >JMO, but I don't really have a problem with Steve's site link in his sig.
>> >Though I think *changing* his sig to contain a specific link to a product
>he
>> >mentions violates the spirit, if not the letter of the intention of the
>FAQ.
>> >
>> >That's typically not his MO, however. Maybe he felt guilty about
>changing
>> >the OP's question around in this thread to a topic for which he had a
>book
>> >link.
>> >
>> >Things like his post the other day in the "Ab Tools" thread are more
>> >straight ad's. OP asks for advice; Steve gives a one or two line blurb
>for
>> >one of Pavel's books, and link using his affiliate id.
>> >
>> >Hoff
>>
>> I just checked out the Ab Tools thread. The OP clearly asked for any
>> advice/explanations. I don't think s/he was asking anyone to confine
>> his/her remarks to the "swinger" or the "couch trainer."
>>
>> I own Pavel's Bullet-Proof Abs: Second Edition. (Unlike Steve I only
>> use the Pavelizer I nowadays (which might explain why my results -
>> although satisfactory - are much worse than his). I don't know if you
>> have taken a look at Pavel's Ab book. If you have, I wonder whether
>> you would agree with me that there's a lot of useful stuff in there.
>> If you do, I wonder whether you would agree with me that a
>> reference/link to this book would be relevant to the OP's question.
>>
>
>Could be. Not the point.
>
>Steve *could* have told what I did, how he has approached it, etc. Instead,
>he posted a link to a book where he'll make money.
>
>But sure, why the **** not? Lyle needs to stop actually posting
>information, and just tell people to buy his ****ing books. Krista can
>charge for access to her website.
>
>For that matter, let's all just sign up for "affiliate programs". Instead
>of anyone actually answering a question, just post links to books or info
>where we can make a buck.
>
>Hell of an idea, "damifino".
>
>Hoff

I bet if I took the time to research this issue, I'd see that Steve
often posts lengthy replies containing very specific information. I
bet I'd also find that the number of words contained in his replies
significantly exceeds the vast majority of posts to MFW, including
yours. You may not agree with many things he says; I might. That's
not the issue. We're talking about whether Steve merely posts links
to books instead of answering questions.

I wouldn't mind in the slightest if Lyle tells people where they can
buy his books as long as he continues to post information relevant to
the thread in question. I wouldn't consider that spamming or
advertisement that violates the MFW chater. If Krista wants to
charge for access to her website, that's her business. I hope she
doesn't, but again that's her choice. If she does, I hope she
continues posting helpful information here.

More than anyone, I suppose I'm guilty of directing people to URLs
instead of posting lengthy or informative replies. I make no money by
doing this and I think I'm contributing something so I suppose I'll
continue.

Gee, I hope no one makes any money by going to any of the urls I post!

March 13th 04, 06:46 PM
On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 16:51:43 GMT, Proton Soup <> wrote:

>On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:59:19 GMT, wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:11:42 GMT, "Hoff" >
>>wrote:
>>
> wrote in message
...
>>>>
>>>> Since we're into a deju vu all over again mode, let's revisit the MFW
>>>> FAQ on advertising.
>>>>
>>>> Generally speaking, commercial advertisements are strongly
>>>> discouraged. However, "the contents of a .signature appended to your
>>>> articles on the group may contain whatever you wish to put there and
>>>> that may include pointers to a commercial website or mention of your
>>>> products or services--however, this exception is only applicable if
>>>> you're actually posting an article that is otherwise appropriate for
>>>> the group."
>>>>
>>>> Does Steve post things relevant to MFW or does he only place ads for
>>>> weight-related items? I use KBs (as well as other types of strength
>>>> conditioning equipment) because I prefer doing compound exercises with
>>>> free weights. I have benefitted from reading Steve's postings (about
>>>> KBs and many other topics) and from the personalized training I've
>>>> received from him. I'm sure that many others have also benefitted
>>>> from the advice and answers he's provided on this NG. In this
>>>> context, can he not do what is allowable under the MFW FAQ list?
>>>>
>>>
>>>JMO, but I don't really have a problem with Steve's site link in his sig.
>>>Though I think *changing* his sig to contain a specific link to a product he
>>>mentions violates the spirit, if not the letter of the intention of the FAQ.
>>>
>>>That's typically not his MO, however. Maybe he felt guilty about changing
>>>the OP's question around in this thread to a topic for which he had a book
>>>link.
>>>
>>>Things like his post the other day in the "Ab Tools" thread are more
>>>straight ad's. OP asks for advice; Steve gives a one or two line blurb for
>>>one of Pavel's books, and link using his affiliate id.
>>>
>>>Hoff
>>
>>I just checked out the Ab Tools thread. The OP clearly asked for any
>>advice/explanations. I don't think s/he was asking anyone to confine
>>his/her remarks to the "swinger" or the "couch trainer."
>>
>>I own Pavel's Bullet-Proof Abs: Second Edition. (Unlike Steve I only
>>use the Pavelizer I nowadays (which might explain why my results -
>>although satisfactory - are much worse than his). I don't know if you
>>have taken a look at Pavel's Ab book. If you have, I wonder whether
>>you would agree with me that there's a lot of useful stuff in there.
>>If you do, I wonder whether you would agree with me that a
>>reference/link to this book would be relevant to the OP's question.
>
>So you think people in MFW have an unfair negative attitude toward
>Pavel? Could be. Thank Steve for that.

I have no idea whether most people in MFW have a negative attitude
towards Pavel. Far more people lurk here than post. I have seen very
few cogent criticisms of Pavel's strength conditioning principles on
MFW or anywhere else. Personally, I don't understand a few things he
says - wide-grip PL BP as the best biceps developer to name just one
example - but, generally speaking, I think what he says is on target -
and, based on the reviews and testimonials I've read from people with
impressive credentials of their own, I'm hardly alone. I have seen
tons of attacks on the way he advertises and markets his products.
Personally, I applaud his success and admire his aggressive and
entertaining way of promoting his ideas and his products, but each to
his own.

Who knows why people dislike other people or some aspect of their
behavior. Steve's personal history and his accomplishments impress me
http://www.dragondoor.com/profiles.html#sfreides
http://www.kbnj.com/SteveBio.htm
and I appreciate the help he has given me in this NG and in class.
Everyone else is free to come to his/her own conclusions

>> The OP wrote: Any advice/explanations welcome, cheers.

>Go smoke a super joint.
>
>Proton Soup

Extremely witty! A link (preferably to a personal commercial venture)
would be appreciated.

March 13th 04, 06:46 PM
On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 16:51:43 GMT, Proton Soup <> wrote:

>On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:59:19 GMT, wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:11:42 GMT, "Hoff" >
>>wrote:
>>
> wrote in message
...
>>>>
>>>> Since we're into a deju vu all over again mode, let's revisit the MFW
>>>> FAQ on advertising.
>>>>
>>>> Generally speaking, commercial advertisements are strongly
>>>> discouraged. However, "the contents of a .signature appended to your
>>>> articles on the group may contain whatever you wish to put there and
>>>> that may include pointers to a commercial website or mention of your
>>>> products or services--however, this exception is only applicable if
>>>> you're actually posting an article that is otherwise appropriate for
>>>> the group."
>>>>
>>>> Does Steve post things relevant to MFW or does he only place ads for
>>>> weight-related items? I use KBs (as well as other types of strength
>>>> conditioning equipment) because I prefer doing compound exercises with
>>>> free weights. I have benefitted from reading Steve's postings (about
>>>> KBs and many other topics) and from the personalized training I've
>>>> received from him. I'm sure that many others have also benefitted
>>>> from the advice and answers he's provided on this NG. In this
>>>> context, can he not do what is allowable under the MFW FAQ list?
>>>>
>>>
>>>JMO, but I don't really have a problem with Steve's site link in his sig.
>>>Though I think *changing* his sig to contain a specific link to a product he
>>>mentions violates the spirit, if not the letter of the intention of the FAQ.
>>>
>>>That's typically not his MO, however. Maybe he felt guilty about changing
>>>the OP's question around in this thread to a topic for which he had a book
>>>link.
>>>
>>>Things like his post the other day in the "Ab Tools" thread are more
>>>straight ad's. OP asks for advice; Steve gives a one or two line blurb for
>>>one of Pavel's books, and link using his affiliate id.
>>>
>>>Hoff
>>
>>I just checked out the Ab Tools thread. The OP clearly asked for any
>>advice/explanations. I don't think s/he was asking anyone to confine
>>his/her remarks to the "swinger" or the "couch trainer."
>>
>>I own Pavel's Bullet-Proof Abs: Second Edition. (Unlike Steve I only
>>use the Pavelizer I nowadays (which might explain why my results -
>>although satisfactory - are much worse than his). I don't know if you
>>have taken a look at Pavel's Ab book. If you have, I wonder whether
>>you would agree with me that there's a lot of useful stuff in there.
>>If you do, I wonder whether you would agree with me that a
>>reference/link to this book would be relevant to the OP's question.
>
>So you think people in MFW have an unfair negative attitude toward
>Pavel? Could be. Thank Steve for that.

I have no idea whether most people in MFW have a negative attitude
towards Pavel. Far more people lurk here than post. I have seen very
few cogent criticisms of Pavel's strength conditioning principles on
MFW or anywhere else. Personally, I don't understand a few things he
says - wide-grip PL BP as the best biceps developer to name just one
example - but, generally speaking, I think what he says is on target -
and, based on the reviews and testimonials I've read from people with
impressive credentials of their own, I'm hardly alone. I have seen
tons of attacks on the way he advertises and markets his products.
Personally, I applaud his success and admire his aggressive and
entertaining way of promoting his ideas and his products, but each to
his own.

Who knows why people dislike other people or some aspect of their
behavior. Steve's personal history and his accomplishments impress me
http://www.dragondoor.com/profiles.html#sfreides
http://www.kbnj.com/SteveBio.htm
and I appreciate the help he has given me in this NG and in class.
Everyone else is free to come to his/her own conclusions

>> The OP wrote: Any advice/explanations welcome, cheers.

>Go smoke a super joint.
>
>Proton Soup

Extremely witty! A link (preferably to a personal commercial venture)
would be appreciated.

March 13th 04, 07:02 PM
On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 16:38:44 GMT, Proton Soup <> wrote:

>On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 14:28:34 GMT, wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 18:11:03 -0800, "Pat Styles"
> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Steve Freides" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>> You really don't get it, do you? <sigh>.
>>>
>>>No, it is clearly you who don't get it. You've been told repeatedly by numerous
>>>people you're posts are inappropriately commercial.
>>>
>>>> I pay no attention to the income
>>>> from DragonDoor commissions regarding what I post here. If I think someone
>>>> might benefit from reading a book I've read, I'll give a link to the book.
>>>
>>>No, you give a link to your site, from which you benefit financially, and in
>>>which you have a commercial interest. Why not just give a title of a book? Why
>>>not refer people to amazon or b&n as it has been repeatedly pointed out the
>>>books you recommend are substantially cheaper there?
>>>
>>>> If it's "cyclical" it may just be, well, I don't know what it may just be.
>>>> I haven't been reading the books themselves much lately. Honest, I don't
>>>> know.
>>>
>>>Finally, something I believe. Steve doesn't know much.
>>>ps
>>
>>Since we're into a deju vu all over again mode, let's revisit the MFW
>>FAQ on advertising.
>>
>>Generally speaking, commercial advertisements are strongly
>>discouraged. However, "the contents of a .signature appended to your
>>articles on the group may contain whatever you wish to put there and
>>that may include pointers to a commercial website or mention of your
>>products or services--however, this exception is only applicable if
>>you're actually posting an article that is otherwise appropriate for
>>the group."
>
>>Does Steve post things relevant to MFW or does he only place ads for
>>weight-related items? I use KBs (as well as other types of strength
>
>That's a really stupid question. Posting relevant in MFW half the
>time does not give you license to post ads the other half.
>Interrupting every other thread to mention a dragondoor product and
>inserting a link that goes through your affiliate ID is NOT keeping
>it in your .sig file.
>
>>conditioning equipment) because I prefer doing compound exercises with
>>free weights. I have benefitted from reading Steve's postings (about
>>KBs and many other topics) and from the personalized training I've
>>received from him. I'm sure that many others have also benefitted
>>from the advice and answers he's provided on this NG. In this
>>context, can he not do what is allowable under the MFW FAQ list?
>
>From what I've seen, Steve does not keep it in his .sig file.
>
>>(I'm certain you will all be much nicer to Steve when you realize that
>>low KB sales prevented him from buying new shoes for his family. Wish
>>him good luck next month when the introduction of a new Dragondoor
>>product line may make it possible for him to purchase new shoes for
>>everyone + a top-of-the-line Cray supercomputer!)
>
>Oh shut the **** up you shill. Steve is the most tolerated spammer
>here. Rarely if ever does he get a broken coke bottle invitation.
>
>Proton Soup

Again the sh** word! Let's see . . .a shill is a decoy who acts as an
enthusiastic customer in order to stimulate the participation of
others.

Well, Steve and I both use KBs - although he is far more conscientious
about his strength conditioning program than I. So, who is "acting"?
Sure, I would like other people to use KBs - and BBs and DBs and
cables and all kinds of equipment as well as bodyweight exercises.
With respect to KBs, I know about very few authorities other than
Pavel, so I bring his name up in this connection quite often. He also
has important things to say about flexibility, strength training and
other subjects. The difference here is that I know - and many of you
know - many other people who also have very noteworthy things to say
on these subjects.

Steve often posts thoughtful, lengthy replies on MFW. There are
relatively few people here who do the same. Are you one of these? If
not, are you someone who should be respected by virtue of your ability
to refrain from slashing someone with a broken coke bottle?

March 13th 04, 07:02 PM
On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 16:38:44 GMT, Proton Soup <> wrote:

>On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 14:28:34 GMT, wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 18:11:03 -0800, "Pat Styles"
> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Steve Freides" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>> You really don't get it, do you? <sigh>.
>>>
>>>No, it is clearly you who don't get it. You've been told repeatedly by numerous
>>>people you're posts are inappropriately commercial.
>>>
>>>> I pay no attention to the income
>>>> from DragonDoor commissions regarding what I post here. If I think someone
>>>> might benefit from reading a book I've read, I'll give a link to the book.
>>>
>>>No, you give a link to your site, from which you benefit financially, and in
>>>which you have a commercial interest. Why not just give a title of a book? Why
>>>not refer people to amazon or b&n as it has been repeatedly pointed out the
>>>books you recommend are substantially cheaper there?
>>>
>>>> If it's "cyclical" it may just be, well, I don't know what it may just be.
>>>> I haven't been reading the books themselves much lately. Honest, I don't
>>>> know.
>>>
>>>Finally, something I believe. Steve doesn't know much.
>>>ps
>>
>>Since we're into a deju vu all over again mode, let's revisit the MFW
>>FAQ on advertising.
>>
>>Generally speaking, commercial advertisements are strongly
>>discouraged. However, "the contents of a .signature appended to your
>>articles on the group may contain whatever you wish to put there and
>>that may include pointers to a commercial website or mention of your
>>products or services--however, this exception is only applicable if
>>you're actually posting an article that is otherwise appropriate for
>>the group."
>
>>Does Steve post things relevant to MFW or does he only place ads for
>>weight-related items? I use KBs (as well as other types of strength
>
>That's a really stupid question. Posting relevant in MFW half the
>time does not give you license to post ads the other half.
>Interrupting every other thread to mention a dragondoor product and
>inserting a link that goes through your affiliate ID is NOT keeping
>it in your .sig file.
>
>>conditioning equipment) because I prefer doing compound exercises with
>>free weights. I have benefitted from reading Steve's postings (about
>>KBs and many other topics) and from the personalized training I've
>>received from him. I'm sure that many others have also benefitted
>>from the advice and answers he's provided on this NG. In this
>>context, can he not do what is allowable under the MFW FAQ list?
>
>From what I've seen, Steve does not keep it in his .sig file.
>
>>(I'm certain you will all be much nicer to Steve when you realize that
>>low KB sales prevented him from buying new shoes for his family. Wish
>>him good luck next month when the introduction of a new Dragondoor
>>product line may make it possible for him to purchase new shoes for
>>everyone + a top-of-the-line Cray supercomputer!)
>
>Oh shut the **** up you shill. Steve is the most tolerated spammer
>here. Rarely if ever does he get a broken coke bottle invitation.
>
>Proton Soup

Again the sh** word! Let's see . . .a shill is a decoy who acts as an
enthusiastic customer in order to stimulate the participation of
others.

Well, Steve and I both use KBs - although he is far more conscientious
about his strength conditioning program than I. So, who is "acting"?
Sure, I would like other people to use KBs - and BBs and DBs and
cables and all kinds of equipment as well as bodyweight exercises.
With respect to KBs, I know about very few authorities other than
Pavel, so I bring his name up in this connection quite often. He also
has important things to say about flexibility, strength training and
other subjects. The difference here is that I know - and many of you
know - many other people who also have very noteworthy things to say
on these subjects.

Steve often posts thoughtful, lengthy replies on MFW. There are
relatively few people here who do the same. Are you one of these? If
not, are you someone who should be respected by virtue of your ability
to refrain from slashing someone with a broken coke bottle?

March 13th 04, 07:13 PM
On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 08:48:08 -0800, "Pat Styles"
> wrote:

> wrote in message
...
>> On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 18:11:03 -0800, "Pat Styles"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"Steve Freides" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >
>> >> You really don't get it, do you? <sigh>.
>> >
>> >No, it is clearly you who don't get it. You've been told repeatedly by
>numerous
>> >people you're posts are inappropriately commercial.
>> >
>> >> I pay no attention to the income
>> >> from DragonDoor commissions regarding what I post here. If I think someone
>> >> might benefit from reading a book I've read, I'll give a link to the book.
>> >
>> >No, you give a link to your site, from which you benefit financially, and in
>> >which you have a commercial interest. Why not just give a title of a book?
>Why
>> >not refer people to amazon or b&n as it has been repeatedly pointed out the
>> >books you recommend are substantially cheaper there?
>> >
>> >> If it's "cyclical" it may just be, well, I don't know what it may just be.
>> >> I haven't been reading the books themselves much lately. Honest, I don't
>> >> know.
>> >
>> >Finally, something I believe. Steve doesn't know much.
>> >ps
>>
>> Since we're into a deju vu all over again mode, let's revisit the MFW
>> FAQ on advertising.
>>
>> Generally speaking, commercial advertisements are strongly
>> discouraged.
>
>You have a keen grasp of the obvious.

Thank you.
>
>> However, "the contents of a .signature appended to your
>> articles on the group may contain whatever you wish to put there and
>> that may include pointers to a commercial website or mention of your
>> products or services--however, this exception is only applicable if
>> you're actually posting an article that is otherwise appropriate for
>> the group."
>
>Hm, maybe not so keen. Did I say anything about his sig? The objection was to
>his pointing people to his site, in which he has a commercial and financial
>interest, when he could simply recommend a book or let them know the book is
>available at other sites than his for significantly less. ngfywabcb, b.
>ps

What is a .sig file?

"A short block of text at the end of a message identifying the sender
and providing additional information about them. . .

SIG files often include a mix of contact information and business
promotion. This may include the sender's name, job title, company
name, phone #, fax #, email address, Web site address, tag line and
brief benefits of your products or services."

So, let's review the MFW FAQ again -

"the contents of a .signature appended to your articles on the group
may contain whatever you wish to put there and that may include
pointers to a commercial website or mention of your products or
services--however, this exception is only applicable if you're
actually posting an article that is otherwise appropriate for
the group."

March 13th 04, 07:13 PM
On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 08:48:08 -0800, "Pat Styles"
> wrote:

> wrote in message
...
>> On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 18:11:03 -0800, "Pat Styles"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"Steve Freides" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >
>> >> You really don't get it, do you? <sigh>.
>> >
>> >No, it is clearly you who don't get it. You've been told repeatedly by
>numerous
>> >people you're posts are inappropriately commercial.
>> >
>> >> I pay no attention to the income
>> >> from DragonDoor commissions regarding what I post here. If I think someone
>> >> might benefit from reading a book I've read, I'll give a link to the book.
>> >
>> >No, you give a link to your site, from which you benefit financially, and in
>> >which you have a commercial interest. Why not just give a title of a book?
>Why
>> >not refer people to amazon or b&n as it has been repeatedly pointed out the
>> >books you recommend are substantially cheaper there?
>> >
>> >> If it's "cyclical" it may just be, well, I don't know what it may just be.
>> >> I haven't been reading the books themselves much lately. Honest, I don't
>> >> know.
>> >
>> >Finally, something I believe. Steve doesn't know much.
>> >ps
>>
>> Since we're into a deju vu all over again mode, let's revisit the MFW
>> FAQ on advertising.
>>
>> Generally speaking, commercial advertisements are strongly
>> discouraged.
>
>You have a keen grasp of the obvious.

Thank you.
>
>> However, "the contents of a .signature appended to your
>> articles on the group may contain whatever you wish to put there and
>> that may include pointers to a commercial website or mention of your
>> products or services--however, this exception is only applicable if
>> you're actually posting an article that is otherwise appropriate for
>> the group."
>
>Hm, maybe not so keen. Did I say anything about his sig? The objection was to
>his pointing people to his site, in which he has a commercial and financial
>interest, when he could simply recommend a book or let them know the book is
>available at other sites than his for significantly less. ngfywabcb, b.
>ps

What is a .sig file?

"A short block of text at the end of a message identifying the sender
and providing additional information about them. . .

SIG files often include a mix of contact information and business
promotion. This may include the sender's name, job title, company
name, phone #, fax #, email address, Web site address, tag line and
brief benefits of your products or services."

So, let's review the MFW FAQ again -

"the contents of a .signature appended to your articles on the group
may contain whatever you wish to put there and that may include
pointers to a commercial website or mention of your products or
services--however, this exception is only applicable if you're
actually posting an article that is otherwise appropriate for
the group."

John Hanson
March 13th 04, 07:47 PM
On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 18:34:48 GMT, wrote in
misc.fitness.weights:

>On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 18:23:47 GMT, wrote:
>
>> That's
>>not the issue. We're talking about whether Steve merely posts links
>>to books instead of answering questions.
>
>Wrong. The issue is whether Steve posts links to books from which he
>profits. What else he does on this newsgroup is not germane to the
>fact that he inappropriately spams the newsgroup with advertising for
>Pavel and his products.
>
What the **** does this have to do with guns?

John Hanson
March 13th 04, 07:47 PM
On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 18:34:48 GMT, wrote in
misc.fitness.weights:

>On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 18:23:47 GMT, wrote:
>
>> That's
>>not the issue. We're talking about whether Steve merely posts links
>>to books instead of answering questions.
>
>Wrong. The issue is whether Steve posts links to books from which he
>profits. What else he does on this newsgroup is not germane to the
>fact that he inappropriately spams the newsgroup with advertising for
>Pavel and his products.
>
What the **** does this have to do with guns?

March 13th 04, 07:48 PM
On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:20:50 GMT, wrote:

>On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:02:51 GMT, wrote:
>
>
>>Again the sh** word! Let's see . . .a shill is a decoy who acts as an
>>enthusiastic customer in order to stimulate the participation of
>>others.
>>
>>Well, Steve and I both use KBs - although he is far more conscientious
>>about his strength conditioning program than I. So, who is "acting"?
>
>I contend that YOU are acting. You made a claim that using the
>Pavelizer alone with no other changes to your diet or exercise program
>were able to drop several belt notches in two months with only a one
>pound weight loss. YOu further said that many people commented that
>you looked like you lost a lot of weight even though you only lost a
>pound.
>
>You said that other than using kettle bells once a week during this
>period that you did not do much weight training.
>
>You tried to give the impression that the Pavelizer somehow resulted
>in spot reduction in your abdominal region. If not spot reduction how
>can you lose enough fat in your abdominal area to drop several belt
>notches and only lose one pound in weight. The only way to do this
>would be to lose a lot of fat and gain a lot of muscle. But you could
>not have gained much muscle if you were not lifting regularly and were
>watching your calories in order to lose weight.
>
>It is clear that you are shilling for Pavel and making **** up as you
>go along.
>
>Roger

Roger, I will amend my previous statment that I would not reply to
your posts in the future to say that I may, as the spirit moves me,
reply only once to each silly thing that you say with refence to my
posts.

My stomach was flabby. I have the kind of belly that significantly
protrudes over my belt line (which is set below my waistline). When I
decided to do something about this, I diligently used the Pavelizer.
I did not diet, but I tried to be more careful about what I ate and
drank how often I ate and drank, and when I ate and drank. Still, I
only lost one pound. I used the Pavelizer every morning and every
evening for months. I used it without the bungee cords and in ways
thqt put extra emphasis on my obliques. I also added weight plates. I
now use it holding a 45 pound plate with my arms extended and I try to
use proper form and technique. I would, however, be reluctant to let
Steve critique my form because I suspect I probably cheat in certain
ways.

I did not make any claims regard spot reduction as a result of using
the Pavelizer. I didn't make any claims about fat loss either. I
claimed that I could tighten my belt two notches in after several
months of this and that all of my friends - as well as my wife -
spontaneously commented that my belly looked flatter. Given the
baseline condition of a flabby, bloated, protruding gut, I suspect
that my gains should be credible.

I may have to start this regimen all over again, because I have
stopped using the Pavelizer and stopped paying attention to my eating
and drinking habits. As a result, my stomach is again starting to
protrude and get flabby and I've had to loosen my belt a notch.

I don't understand the mechanism at work here. Maybe someone can
offer a theory. In the meantime all of you folks out there can decide
whether or not Janda-type situps and the Pavelizer should be added to
your abdominal strengthening routines. Now you'll have to excuse me
because I need to spend a couple of hours counting all the money I'm
making by recommending the Pavelizer.

March 13th 04, 07:48 PM
On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:20:50 GMT, wrote:

>On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:02:51 GMT, wrote:
>
>
>>Again the sh** word! Let's see . . .a shill is a decoy who acts as an
>>enthusiastic customer in order to stimulate the participation of
>>others.
>>
>>Well, Steve and I both use KBs - although he is far more conscientious
>>about his strength conditioning program than I. So, who is "acting"?
>
>I contend that YOU are acting. You made a claim that using the
>Pavelizer alone with no other changes to your diet or exercise program
>were able to drop several belt notches in two months with only a one
>pound weight loss. YOu further said that many people commented that
>you looked like you lost a lot of weight even though you only lost a
>pound.
>
>You said that other than using kettle bells once a week during this
>period that you did not do much weight training.
>
>You tried to give the impression that the Pavelizer somehow resulted
>in spot reduction in your abdominal region. If not spot reduction how
>can you lose enough fat in your abdominal area to drop several belt
>notches and only lose one pound in weight. The only way to do this
>would be to lose a lot of fat and gain a lot of muscle. But you could
>not have gained much muscle if you were not lifting regularly and were
>watching your calories in order to lose weight.
>
>It is clear that you are shilling for Pavel and making **** up as you
>go along.
>
>Roger

Roger, I will amend my previous statment that I would not reply to
your posts in the future to say that I may, as the spirit moves me,
reply only once to each silly thing that you say with refence to my
posts.

My stomach was flabby. I have the kind of belly that significantly
protrudes over my belt line (which is set below my waistline). When I
decided to do something about this, I diligently used the Pavelizer.
I did not diet, but I tried to be more careful about what I ate and
drank how often I ate and drank, and when I ate and drank. Still, I
only lost one pound. I used the Pavelizer every morning and every
evening for months. I used it without the bungee cords and in ways
thqt put extra emphasis on my obliques. I also added weight plates. I
now use it holding a 45 pound plate with my arms extended and I try to
use proper form and technique. I would, however, be reluctant to let
Steve critique my form because I suspect I probably cheat in certain
ways.

I did not make any claims regard spot reduction as a result of using
the Pavelizer. I didn't make any claims about fat loss either. I
claimed that I could tighten my belt two notches in after several
months of this and that all of my friends - as well as my wife -
spontaneously commented that my belly looked flatter. Given the
baseline condition of a flabby, bloated, protruding gut, I suspect
that my gains should be credible.

I may have to start this regimen all over again, because I have
stopped using the Pavelizer and stopped paying attention to my eating
and drinking habits. As a result, my stomach is again starting to
protrude and get flabby and I've had to loosen my belt a notch.

I don't understand the mechanism at work here. Maybe someone can
offer a theory. In the meantime all of you folks out there can decide
whether or not Janda-type situps and the Pavelizer should be added to
your abdominal strengthening routines. Now you'll have to excuse me
because I need to spend a couple of hours counting all the money I'm
making by recommending the Pavelizer.

Steve
March 13th 04, 08:40 PM
Mistress Krista wrote:
> "Dally" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Well, I don't use kettleballs, but I see absolutely nothing wrong with
>>him having a sig line that makes it easier for me to find a product that
>>he says was helpful. Will has a site, Lyle has a site and the only
>>reason Krista isn't selling anything is because she's too socialist.
>>
>
>
>
> I don't waste time selling things because I'm slowly building an army for
> world domination.

And the we will be *forced* to buy your products.......very clever.

Steve
March 13th 04, 08:40 PM
Mistress Krista wrote:
> "Dally" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Well, I don't use kettleballs, but I see absolutely nothing wrong with
>>him having a sig line that makes it easier for me to find a product that
>>he says was helpful. Will has a site, Lyle has a site and the only
>>reason Krista isn't selling anything is because she's too socialist.
>>
>
>
>
> I don't waste time selling things because I'm slowly building an army for
> world domination.

And the we will be *forced* to buy your products.......very clever.

March 13th 04, 08:54 PM
On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:57:40 GMT, wrote:

>On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:48:50 GMT, wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:20:50 GMT, wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:02:51 GMT, wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Again the sh** word! Let's see . . .a shill is a decoy who acts as an
>>>>enthusiastic customer in order to stimulate the participation of
>>>>others.
>>>>
>>>>Well, Steve and I both use KBs - although he is far more conscientious
>>>>about his strength conditioning program than I. So, who is "acting"?
>>>
>>>I contend that YOU are acting. You made a claim that using the
>>>Pavelizer alone with no other changes to your diet or exercise program
>>>were able to drop several belt notches in two months with only a one
>>>pound weight loss. YOu further said that many people commented that
>>>you looked like you lost a lot of weight even though you only lost a
>>>pound.
>>>
>>>You said that other than using kettle bells once a week during this
>>>period that you did not do much weight training.
>>>
>>>You tried to give the impression that the Pavelizer somehow resulted
>>>in spot reduction in your abdominal region. If not spot reduction how
>>>can you lose enough fat in your abdominal area to drop several belt
>>>notches and only lose one pound in weight. The only way to do this
>>>would be to lose a lot of fat and gain a lot of muscle. But you could
>>>not have gained much muscle if you were not lifting regularly and were
>>>watching your calories in order to lose weight.
>>>
>>>It is clear that you are shilling for Pavel and making **** up as you
>>>go along.
>>>
>>>Roger
>>
>>Roger, I will amend my previous statment that I would not reply to
>>your posts in the future to say that I may, as the spirit moves me,
>>reply only once to each silly thing that you say with refence to my
>>posts.
>>
>>My stomach was flabby. I have the kind of belly that significantly
>>protrudes over my belt line (which is set below my waistline). When I
>>decided to do something about this, I diligently used the Pavelizer.
>>I did not diet, but I tried to be more careful about what I ate and
>>drank how often I ate and drank, and when I ate and drank. Still, I
>>only lost one pound. I used the Pavelizer every morning and every
>>evening for months. I used it without the bungee cords and in ways
>>thqt put extra emphasis on my obliques. I also added weight plates. I
>>now use it holding a 45 pound plate with my arms extended and I try to
>>use proper form and technique. I would, however, be reluctant to let
>>Steve critique my form because I suspect I probably cheat in certain
>>ways.
>>
>>I did not make any claims regard spot reduction as a result of using
>>the Pavelizer. I didn't make any claims about fat loss either. I
>>claimed that I could tighten my belt two notches in after several
>>months of this and that all of my friends - as well as my wife -
>>spontaneously commented that my belly looked flatter. Given the
>>baseline condition of a flabby, bloated, protruding gut, I suspect
>>that my gains should be credible.
>
>If you are not claiming that you achieved spot reduction using the
>Pavelizer please explain how you can tighten your belt two notches
>(note that you said SEVERAL notches before) after only losing a pound
>when you did not engage in serious weight training. I think it very
>important that posters know that you said SEVERAL notches. Two notches
>would mean on a standard belt that you lost an inch around your waist.
>This by definition is spot reduction if you only lost one pound of
>weight.
>>
>>I may have to start this regimen all over again, because I have
>>stopped using the Pavelizer and stopped paying attention to my eating
>>and drinking habits. As a result, my stomach is again starting to
>>protrude and get flabby and I've had to loosen my belt a notch.
>
>The reason your stomach is starting to protrude has absolutely nothing
>to do with your stopping the Pavelizer. It has everything to do with
>your eating and drinking more. Period!!
>>
>>I don't understand the mechanism at work here.
>
>You are such a phony. You know very well the only mechanism to explain
>what you are saying is spot reduction. While you did not use those
>specific words, the implication of what you claimed is clear. Thanx
>for confirming that you are likely a shill.
>
>
>
>> Maybe someone can
>>offer a theory.
>
>
>You are a lying shill.
>
>> In the meantime all of you folks out there can decide
>>whether or not Janda-type situps and the Pavelizer should be added to
>>your abdominal strengthening routines. Now you'll have to excuse me
>>because I need to spend a couple of hours counting all the money I'm
>>making by recommending the Pavelizer.
>
>Strawman. No one claimed you made a cent from the Pavelizer. I
>asserted that you like Steve Friedes and wanted to help him by
>promoting Pavel's products as a likely reason why you are shilling.
>
>Roger

OK, you get a token for making me pay attention to you a second time.

Let me try to make what I am saying simpler for you.

I do not claim I lost fat. I do not claim I achieved spot reduction.
I was able to tighten my belt two notches after several month of using
the Pavelizer and watching what I ate and drank and how often. (I am
not equating this with dieting.)

My stomach muscles got stronger. My belly appeared flatter. I was
not a candidate for a male modeling assignment after I achieved these
results, but I clearly looked better.

I do not understand the precise mechanisms involved in obtaining these
rather modest results. I strongly doubt whether the explanation is
esoteric.

Steve has never told me that he sells Pavelizers. I don't think he
even uses the orginal Pavelizer that he owns very often. I think he
personally prefers doing other kinds of abdominal exercises. I do
like Steve and I wish him success in all his personal and business
ventures. However, I would not recommend the Pavelizer even if I
suspected that Steve sells this item - which I don't. I recommend the
Pavelizer because I like using it. I might even try to swap my
orginal Pavelizer for the Pavelizer II because it makes cheating more
difficult. And, as you know Roger, I am a cheating kind of guy.

March 13th 04, 08:54 PM
On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:57:40 GMT, wrote:

>On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:48:50 GMT, wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:20:50 GMT, wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:02:51 GMT, wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Again the sh** word! Let's see . . .a shill is a decoy who acts as an
>>>>enthusiastic customer in order to stimulate the participation of
>>>>others.
>>>>
>>>>Well, Steve and I both use KBs - although he is far more conscientious
>>>>about his strength conditioning program than I. So, who is "acting"?
>>>
>>>I contend that YOU are acting. You made a claim that using the
>>>Pavelizer alone with no other changes to your diet or exercise program
>>>were able to drop several belt notches in two months with only a one
>>>pound weight loss. YOu further said that many people commented that
>>>you looked like you lost a lot of weight even though you only lost a
>>>pound.
>>>
>>>You said that other than using kettle bells once a week during this
>>>period that you did not do much weight training.
>>>
>>>You tried to give the impression that the Pavelizer somehow resulted
>>>in spot reduction in your abdominal region. If not spot reduction how
>>>can you lose enough fat in your abdominal area to drop several belt
>>>notches and only lose one pound in weight. The only way to do this
>>>would be to lose a lot of fat and gain a lot of muscle. But you could
>>>not have gained much muscle if you were not lifting regularly and were
>>>watching your calories in order to lose weight.
>>>
>>>It is clear that you are shilling for Pavel and making **** up as you
>>>go along.
>>>
>>>Roger
>>
>>Roger, I will amend my previous statment that I would not reply to
>>your posts in the future to say that I may, as the spirit moves me,
>>reply only once to each silly thing that you say with refence to my
>>posts.
>>
>>My stomach was flabby. I have the kind of belly that significantly
>>protrudes over my belt line (which is set below my waistline). When I
>>decided to do something about this, I diligently used the Pavelizer.
>>I did not diet, but I tried to be more careful about what I ate and
>>drank how often I ate and drank, and when I ate and drank. Still, I
>>only lost one pound. I used the Pavelizer every morning and every
>>evening for months. I used it without the bungee cords and in ways
>>thqt put extra emphasis on my obliques. I also added weight plates. I
>>now use it holding a 45 pound plate with my arms extended and I try to
>>use proper form and technique. I would, however, be reluctant to let
>>Steve critique my form because I suspect I probably cheat in certain
>>ways.
>>
>>I did not make any claims regard spot reduction as a result of using
>>the Pavelizer. I didn't make any claims about fat loss either. I
>>claimed that I could tighten my belt two notches in after several
>>months of this and that all of my friends - as well as my wife -
>>spontaneously commented that my belly looked flatter. Given the
>>baseline condition of a flabby, bloated, protruding gut, I suspect
>>that my gains should be credible.
>
>If you are not claiming that you achieved spot reduction using the
>Pavelizer please explain how you can tighten your belt two notches
>(note that you said SEVERAL notches before) after only losing a pound
>when you did not engage in serious weight training. I think it very
>important that posters know that you said SEVERAL notches. Two notches
>would mean on a standard belt that you lost an inch around your waist.
>This by definition is spot reduction if you only lost one pound of
>weight.
>>
>>I may have to start this regimen all over again, because I have
>>stopped using the Pavelizer and stopped paying attention to my eating
>>and drinking habits. As a result, my stomach is again starting to
>>protrude and get flabby and I've had to loosen my belt a notch.
>
>The reason your stomach is starting to protrude has absolutely nothing
>to do with your stopping the Pavelizer. It has everything to do with
>your eating and drinking more. Period!!
>>
>>I don't understand the mechanism at work here.
>
>You are such a phony. You know very well the only mechanism to explain
>what you are saying is spot reduction. While you did not use those
>specific words, the implication of what you claimed is clear. Thanx
>for confirming that you are likely a shill.
>
>
>
>> Maybe someone can
>>offer a theory.
>
>
>You are a lying shill.
>
>> In the meantime all of you folks out there can decide
>>whether or not Janda-type situps and the Pavelizer should be added to
>>your abdominal strengthening routines. Now you'll have to excuse me
>>because I need to spend a couple of hours counting all the money I'm
>>making by recommending the Pavelizer.
>
>Strawman. No one claimed you made a cent from the Pavelizer. I
>asserted that you like Steve Friedes and wanted to help him by
>promoting Pavel's products as a likely reason why you are shilling.
>
>Roger

OK, you get a token for making me pay attention to you a second time.

Let me try to make what I am saying simpler for you.

I do not claim I lost fat. I do not claim I achieved spot reduction.
I was able to tighten my belt two notches after several month of using
the Pavelizer and watching what I ate and drank and how often. (I am
not equating this with dieting.)

My stomach muscles got stronger. My belly appeared flatter. I was
not a candidate for a male modeling assignment after I achieved these
results, but I clearly looked better.

I do not understand the precise mechanisms involved in obtaining these
rather modest results. I strongly doubt whether the explanation is
esoteric.

Steve has never told me that he sells Pavelizers. I don't think he
even uses the orginal Pavelizer that he owns very often. I think he
personally prefers doing other kinds of abdominal exercises. I do
like Steve and I wish him success in all his personal and business
ventures. However, I would not recommend the Pavelizer even if I
suspected that Steve sells this item - which I don't. I recommend the
Pavelizer because I like using it. I might even try to swap my
orginal Pavelizer for the Pavelizer II because it makes cheating more
difficult. And, as you know Roger, I am a cheating kind of guy.

John M. Williams
March 13th 04, 09:58 PM
wrote:

> wrote:
>>
>>I wouldn't mind in the slightest if Lyle tells people where they can
>>buy his books as long as he continues to post information relevant to
>>the thread in question.
>
>Who gives a **** whether you mind it. It is against the charter of
>this newsgroup. No advertising for personal gain. What about that do
>you not understand??

Roger, you're being a lying sack of **** again. It is *not* against
the newsgroup charter. You have never read the newsgroup charter.

Advertisement is contrary to newsgroup custom, except when placed in a
few lines in one's sig, which has always been considered acceptable.

It is you who do not understand, Roger. And this newsgroup will not
comply to your expectations, no matter how much bitching and whining
you do.

Now **** off.

John M. Williams
March 13th 04, 09:58 PM
wrote:

> wrote:
>>
>>I wouldn't mind in the slightest if Lyle tells people where they can
>>buy his books as long as he continues to post information relevant to
>>the thread in question.
>
>Who gives a **** whether you mind it. It is against the charter of
>this newsgroup. No advertising for personal gain. What about that do
>you not understand??

Roger, you're being a lying sack of **** again. It is *not* against
the newsgroup charter. You have never read the newsgroup charter.

Advertisement is contrary to newsgroup custom, except when placed in a
few lines in one's sig, which has always been considered acceptable.

It is you who do not understand, Roger. And this newsgroup will not
comply to your expectations, no matter how much bitching and whining
you do.

Now **** off.

John M. Williams
March 13th 04, 10:00 PM
John Hanson > wrote:

>On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 18:34:48 GMT, wrote in
>misc.fitness.weights:
>
>>On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 18:23:47 GMT, wrote:
>>
>>> That's
>>>not the issue. We're talking about whether Steve merely posts links
>>>to books instead of answering questions.
>>
>>Wrong. The issue is whether Steve posts links to books from which he
>>profits. What else he does on this newsgroup is not germane to the
>>fact that he inappropriately spams the newsgroup with advertising for
>>Pavel and his products.
>>
>What the **** does this have to do with guns?

Roger needs to eat a gun.

John M. Williams
March 13th 04, 10:00 PM
John Hanson > wrote:

>On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 18:34:48 GMT, wrote in
>misc.fitness.weights:
>
>>On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 18:23:47 GMT, wrote:
>>
>>> That's
>>>not the issue. We're talking about whether Steve merely posts links
>>>to books instead of answering questions.
>>
>>Wrong. The issue is whether Steve posts links to books from which he
>>profits. What else he does on this newsgroup is not germane to the
>>fact that he inappropriately spams the newsgroup with advertising for
>>Pavel and his products.
>>
>What the **** does this have to do with guns?

Roger needs to eat a gun.

Mistress Krista
March 13th 04, 10:33 PM
"Dally" > wrote in message
...
>
> Well, I don't use kettleballs, but I see absolutely nothing wrong with
> him having a sig line that makes it easier for me to find a product that
> he says was helpful. Will has a site, Lyle has a site and the only
> reason Krista isn't selling anything is because she's too socialist.
>


I don't waste time selling things because I'm slowly building an army for
world domination.


Krista

--
http://www.stumptuous.com/weights.html
http://www.trans-health.com
mistresskrista at stumptuous dot com

Mistress Krista
March 13th 04, 10:33 PM
"Dally" > wrote in message
...
>
> Well, I don't use kettleballs, but I see absolutely nothing wrong with
> him having a sig line that makes it easier for me to find a product that
> he says was helpful. Will has a site, Lyle has a site and the only
> reason Krista isn't selling anything is because she's too socialist.
>


I don't waste time selling things because I'm slowly building an army for
world domination.


Krista

--
http://www.stumptuous.com/weights.html
http://www.trans-health.com
mistresskrista at stumptuous dot com

John Hanson
March 13th 04, 10:39 PM
On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:02:51 GMT, wrote in
misc.fitness.weights:

>
>Steve often posts thoughtful, lengthy replies on MFW. There are
>relatively few people here who do the same.

Bull****

John Hanson
March 13th 04, 10:39 PM
On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:02:51 GMT, wrote in
misc.fitness.weights:

>
>Steve often posts thoughtful, lengthy replies on MFW. There are
>relatively few people here who do the same.

Bull****

March 13th 04, 11:48 PM
On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 21:10:10 GMT, wrote:

>On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 20:54:12 GMT, wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:57:40 GMT, wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:48:50 GMT, wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:20:50 GMT, wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:02:51 GMT, wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Again the sh** word! Let's see . . .a shill is a decoy who acts as an
>>>>>>enthusiastic customer in order to stimulate the participation of
>>>>>>others.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Well, Steve and I both use KBs - although he is far more conscientious
>>>>>>about his strength conditioning program than I. So, who is "acting"?
>>>>>
>>>>>I contend that YOU are acting. You made a claim that using the
>>>>>Pavelizer alone with no other changes to your diet or exercise program
>>>>>were able to drop several belt notches in two months with only a one
>>>>>pound weight loss. YOu further said that many people commented that
>>>>>you looked like you lost a lot of weight even though you only lost a
>>>>>pound.
>>>>>
>>>>>You said that other than using kettle bells once a week during this
>>>>>period that you did not do much weight training.
>>>>>
>>>>>You tried to give the impression that the Pavelizer somehow resulted
>>>>>in spot reduction in your abdominal region. If not spot reduction how
>>>>>can you lose enough fat in your abdominal area to drop several belt
>>>>>notches and only lose one pound in weight. The only way to do this
>>>>>would be to lose a lot of fat and gain a lot of muscle. But you could
>>>>>not have gained much muscle if you were not lifting regularly and were
>>>>>watching your calories in order to lose weight.
>>>>>
>>>>>It is clear that you are shilling for Pavel and making **** up as you
>>>>>go along.
>>>>>
>>>>>Roger
>>>>
>>>>Roger, I will amend my previous statment that I would not reply to
>>>>your posts in the future to say that I may, as the spirit moves me,
>>>>reply only once to each silly thing that you say with refence to my
>>>>posts.
>>>>
>>>>My stomach was flabby. I have the kind of belly that significantly
>>>>protrudes over my belt line (which is set below my waistline). When I
>>>>decided to do something about this, I diligently used the Pavelizer.
>>>>I did not diet, but I tried to be more careful about what I ate and
>>>>drank how often I ate and drank, and when I ate and drank. Still, I
>>>>only lost one pound. I used the Pavelizer every morning and every
>>>>evening for months. I used it without the bungee cords and in ways
>>>>thqt put extra emphasis on my obliques. I also added weight plates. I
>>>>now use it holding a 45 pound plate with my arms extended and I try to
>>>>use proper form and technique. I would, however, be reluctant to let
>>>>Steve critique my form because I suspect I probably cheat in certain
>>>>ways.
>>>>
>>>>I did not make any claims regard spot reduction as a result of using
>>>>the Pavelizer. I didn't make any claims about fat loss either. I
>>>>claimed that I could tighten my belt two notches in after several
>>>>months of this and that all of my friends - as well as my wife -
>>>>spontaneously commented that my belly looked flatter. Given the
>>>>baseline condition of a flabby, bloated, protruding gut, I suspect
>>>>that my gains should be credible.
>>>
>>>If you are not claiming that you achieved spot reduction using the
>>>Pavelizer please explain how you can tighten your belt two notches
>>>(note that you said SEVERAL notches before) after only losing a pound
>>>when you did not engage in serious weight training. I think it very
>>>important that posters know that you said SEVERAL notches. Two notches
>>>would mean on a standard belt that you lost an inch around your waist.
>>>This by definition is spot reduction if you only lost one pound of
>>>weight.
>>>>
>>>>I may have to start this regimen all over again, because I have
>>>>stopped using the Pavelizer and stopped paying attention to my eating
>>>>and drinking habits. As a result, my stomach is again starting to
>>>>protrude and get flabby and I've had to loosen my belt a notch.
>>>
>>>The reason your stomach is starting to protrude has absolutely nothing
>>>to do with your stopping the Pavelizer. It has everything to do with
>>>your eating and drinking more. Period!!
>>>>
>>>>I don't understand the mechanism at work here.
>>>
>>>You are such a phony. You know very well the only mechanism to explain
>>>what you are saying is spot reduction. While you did not use those
>>>specific words, the implication of what you claimed is clear. Thanx
>>>for confirming that you are likely a shill.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Maybe someone can
>>>>offer a theory.
>>>
>>>
>>>You are a lying shill.
>>>
>>>> In the meantime all of you folks out there can decide
>>>>whether or not Janda-type situps and the Pavelizer should be added to
>>>>your abdominal strengthening routines. Now you'll have to excuse me
>>>>because I need to spend a couple of hours counting all the money I'm
>>>>making by recommending the Pavelizer.
>>>
>>>Strawman. No one claimed you made a cent from the Pavelizer. I
>>>asserted that you like Steve Friedes and wanted to help him by
>>>promoting Pavel's products as a likely reason why you are shilling.
>>>
>>>Roger
>>
>>OK, you get a token for making me pay attention to you a second time.
>>
>>Let me try to make what I am saying simpler for you.
>>
>>I do not claim I lost fat.
>
>
>Bull****. When Lyle offered as an explanation of your flat belly he
>opined that you lost visceral fat. And your response was that this was
>HIGHLY LIKELY. Oh what a tangle web we weave when first we practice to
>deceive.
>
> I then challenged this assertion considering you only lost ONE POUND
>of weight and you never responded. And you never responded because
>there is no explanation to losing enough visceral fat to lose an inch
>around your belly and only a one pound weight loss unless you gained a
>tremendous amount of muscle.
>
> I assumed that you listened to the advice Better be thought a fool
>than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. Looks like you forgot
>this sage advice.
>
>>I do not claim I achieved spot reduction.
>
>You continue to not answer my question of how, if you did not achieve
>spot reduction were you able to tighten your belt two (was several the
>first time you told the "story") notches while only losing a pound.
>You did not explicitly claims to achieved spot reduction. But you sure
>implied it.
>
>>I was able to tighten my belt two notches after several month of using
>>the Pavelizer and watching what I ate and drank and how often. (I am
>>not equating this with dieting.)
>
>You are equating this with the Pavelizer.
>>
>>My stomach muscles got stronger. My belly appeared flatter.
>
>How can you belly appear flatter by getting strong abdominal muscles??
>You must lose fat for your belly to appear flatter. Give me another
>explanation.
>I don't dispute that your abdominal muscles got stronger. But it was
>more than your belly APPEARING flatter. You said that you dropped two
>notches in your belt. That means you lost an inch around your waist
>only losing a pound of weight. That is spot reduction whatever word
>games you want to play.
>
>You also did not explain how the number of notches went from SEVERAL
>(the first time you told the story) to TWO (now). This suggests that
>you are not being honest since there is no way that two is several.
>Watch the non-response.
>
>
>>
>>I do not understand the precise mechanisms involved in obtaining these
>>rather modest results. I strongly doubt whether the explanation is
>>esoteric.
>
>Modest results????? Are you kidding. Losing a full inch around your
>waist while only losing one pound is amazing!! And also likely a lie
>from a shill.
>
><snip>
>
>Roger

Frankly, I have no idea whether or not I lost visceral fat. It's
certainly possible, but I have no way of knowing for sure. This was
one of the two options Lyle proposed to explain my results. I didn't
think the option which involved working the transversus abdominis
(which helps to pull the abdominal area inwards, thereby creating a
flatter look) was applicable in terms of how I was using the
Pavelizer. Therefore, I went with his other choice which involved a
loss of visceral fat. I didn't give too much thought at the time as
to whether this was actually the mechanism involved, but you've done a
good deed by motivating me to research this issue.

So, here's what Dr. Tim Church, medical director of the Cooper
Institute, a Dallas research center on exercise and health funded by
the National Institutes of Health, says:

" 'Interestingly, the visceral fat appears to disappear with a little
bit of exercise, while the subcutaneous fat [is] a little bit more
stubborn and likes to stick around.' "

"People who lose visceral fat, but not skin fat, will notice a thinner
waist size before they see a decline in their overall weight."

http://html.ktvu.com/sh/health/stories/health-246285520030908-080904.html


Please forgive me for appearing to vaccillate in terms of the number
of belt notches I was able to tighten. I know that I wore my belt two
notches in from my baseline condition. I experimented with pulling
the belt in three notches and could do that for a very brief period of
time - we're talking seconds here - but I'm sure I couldn't have worn
it that way.

Let's recap, shall we?

1. I used the Pavelizer a lot on a daily basis for approximately
three months. I started out using the bungee cords which came with
the unit and did negatives exclusively at first. After three months,
I was doing multiple sets of 5 each morning and evening with weight
plates and in ways which worked the obliques.

2. I didn't diet (in terms of how I use this word), but I tried to
eat and drink more sensibly in terms of portion control, frequency of
snacking, etc. I tried not to snack - or to eat only very light
snacks - after dinner. I didn't count calories, still occasionally
ate stupidly, and didn't steer clear of fattening foods which is why I
say I didn't diet.

3. My baseline condition was that I had a flabby, bloated, protruding
stomach. After three months of doing what I consider a damn good
abdominal exercise on a daily basis + eating more sensibly, my profile
was much improved. Is this really too incredible to accept?

Also, take into consideration that my bloated, flabby tummy was only
in that condition because I hadn't worked out for several months.
Before I stopped working out, I was deadlifting as many times a week
as I could get to the gym. A heavy DL is a great ab exercise. I had
also been doing wheel roll-outs (although not standing ones like Steve
can do), suitcase deadlifts, the Full Contact Twist, and several other
exercises which work the abdominal muscles. Add rather indiscriminate
eating habits to a sudden and total discontinuation of exercise in a
50+ year old man and it's easy to see how a tummy can expand like the
national debt.

4. I didn't lose more than a pound or so. Based on what Dr. Church
said, couldn't I have lost visceral fat and achieved a thinner
waistline without losing weight?

Do you think, Roger, that maybe, just possibly - say a
one-in-a-million chance - you're being a little too hyper about this
whole thing?

March 13th 04, 11:48 PM
On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 21:10:10 GMT, wrote:

>On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 20:54:12 GMT, wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:57:40 GMT, wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:48:50 GMT, wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:20:50 GMT, wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:02:51 GMT, wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Again the sh** word! Let's see . . .a shill is a decoy who acts as an
>>>>>>enthusiastic customer in order to stimulate the participation of
>>>>>>others.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Well, Steve and I both use KBs - although he is far more conscientious
>>>>>>about his strength conditioning program than I. So, who is "acting"?
>>>>>
>>>>>I contend that YOU are acting. You made a claim that using the
>>>>>Pavelizer alone with no other changes to your diet or exercise program
>>>>>were able to drop several belt notches in two months with only a one
>>>>>pound weight loss. YOu further said that many people commented that
>>>>>you looked like you lost a lot of weight even though you only lost a
>>>>>pound.
>>>>>
>>>>>You said that other than using kettle bells once a week during this
>>>>>period that you did not do much weight training.
>>>>>
>>>>>You tried to give the impression that the Pavelizer somehow resulted
>>>>>in spot reduction in your abdominal region. If not spot reduction how
>>>>>can you lose enough fat in your abdominal area to drop several belt
>>>>>notches and only lose one pound in weight. The only way to do this
>>>>>would be to lose a lot of fat and gain a lot of muscle. But you could
>>>>>not have gained much muscle if you were not lifting regularly and were
>>>>>watching your calories in order to lose weight.
>>>>>
>>>>>It is clear that you are shilling for Pavel and making **** up as you
>>>>>go along.
>>>>>
>>>>>Roger
>>>>
>>>>Roger, I will amend my previous statment that I would not reply to
>>>>your posts in the future to say that I may, as the spirit moves me,
>>>>reply only once to each silly thing that you say with refence to my
>>>>posts.
>>>>
>>>>My stomach was flabby. I have the kind of belly that significantly
>>>>protrudes over my belt line (which is set below my waistline). When I
>>>>decided to do something about this, I diligently used the Pavelizer.
>>>>I did not diet, but I tried to be more careful about what I ate and
>>>>drank how often I ate and drank, and when I ate and drank. Still, I
>>>>only lost one pound. I used the Pavelizer every morning and every
>>>>evening for months. I used it without the bungee cords and in ways
>>>>thqt put extra emphasis on my obliques. I also added weight plates. I
>>>>now use it holding a 45 pound plate with my arms extended and I try to
>>>>use proper form and technique. I would, however, be reluctant to let
>>>>Steve critique my form because I suspect I probably cheat in certain
>>>>ways.
>>>>
>>>>I did not make any claims regard spot reduction as a result of using
>>>>the Pavelizer. I didn't make any claims about fat loss either. I
>>>>claimed that I could tighten my belt two notches in after several
>>>>months of this and that all of my friends - as well as my wife -
>>>>spontaneously commented that my belly looked flatter. Given the
>>>>baseline condition of a flabby, bloated, protruding gut, I suspect
>>>>that my gains should be credible.
>>>
>>>If you are not claiming that you achieved spot reduction using the
>>>Pavelizer please explain how you can tighten your belt two notches
>>>(note that you said SEVERAL notches before) after only losing a pound
>>>when you did not engage in serious weight training. I think it very
>>>important that posters know that you said SEVERAL notches. Two notches
>>>would mean on a standard belt that you lost an inch around your waist.
>>>This by definition is spot reduction if you only lost one pound of
>>>weight.
>>>>
>>>>I may have to start this regimen all over again, because I have
>>>>stopped using the Pavelizer and stopped paying attention to my eating
>>>>and drinking habits. As a result, my stomach is again starting to
>>>>protrude and get flabby and I've had to loosen my belt a notch.
>>>
>>>The reason your stomach is starting to protrude has absolutely nothing
>>>to do with your stopping the Pavelizer. It has everything to do with
>>>your eating and drinking more. Period!!
>>>>
>>>>I don't understand the mechanism at work here.
>>>
>>>You are such a phony. You know very well the only mechanism to explain
>>>what you are saying is spot reduction. While you did not use those
>>>specific words, the implication of what you claimed is clear. Thanx
>>>for confirming that you are likely a shill.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Maybe someone can
>>>>offer a theory.
>>>
>>>
>>>You are a lying shill.
>>>
>>>> In the meantime all of you folks out there can decide
>>>>whether or not Janda-type situps and the Pavelizer should be added to
>>>>your abdominal strengthening routines. Now you'll have to excuse me
>>>>because I need to spend a couple of hours counting all the money I'm
>>>>making by recommending the Pavelizer.
>>>
>>>Strawman. No one claimed you made a cent from the Pavelizer. I
>>>asserted that you like Steve Friedes and wanted to help him by
>>>promoting Pavel's products as a likely reason why you are shilling.
>>>
>>>Roger
>>
>>OK, you get a token for making me pay attention to you a second time.
>>
>>Let me try to make what I am saying simpler for you.
>>
>>I do not claim I lost fat.
>
>
>Bull****. When Lyle offered as an explanation of your flat belly he
>opined that you lost visceral fat. And your response was that this was
>HIGHLY LIKELY. Oh what a tangle web we weave when first we practice to
>deceive.
>
> I then challenged this assertion considering you only lost ONE POUND
>of weight and you never responded. And you never responded because
>there is no explanation to losing enough visceral fat to lose an inch
>around your belly and only a one pound weight loss unless you gained a
>tremendous amount of muscle.
>
> I assumed that you listened to the advice Better be thought a fool
>than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. Looks like you forgot
>this sage advice.
>
>>I do not claim I achieved spot reduction.
>
>You continue to not answer my question of how, if you did not achieve
>spot reduction were you able to tighten your belt two (was several the
>first time you told the "story") notches while only losing a pound.
>You did not explicitly claims to achieved spot reduction. But you sure
>implied it.
>
>>I was able to tighten my belt two notches after several month of using
>>the Pavelizer and watching what I ate and drank and how often. (I am
>>not equating this with dieting.)
>
>You are equating this with the Pavelizer.
>>
>>My stomach muscles got stronger. My belly appeared flatter.
>
>How can you belly appear flatter by getting strong abdominal muscles??
>You must lose fat for your belly to appear flatter. Give me another
>explanation.
>I don't dispute that your abdominal muscles got stronger. But it was
>more than your belly APPEARING flatter. You said that you dropped two
>notches in your belt. That means you lost an inch around your waist
>only losing a pound of weight. That is spot reduction whatever word
>games you want to play.
>
>You also did not explain how the number of notches went from SEVERAL
>(the first time you told the story) to TWO (now). This suggests that
>you are not being honest since there is no way that two is several.
>Watch the non-response.
>
>
>>
>>I do not understand the precise mechanisms involved in obtaining these
>>rather modest results. I strongly doubt whether the explanation is
>>esoteric.
>
>Modest results????? Are you kidding. Losing a full inch around your
>waist while only losing one pound is amazing!! And also likely a lie
>from a shill.
>
><snip>
>
>Roger

Frankly, I have no idea whether or not I lost visceral fat. It's
certainly possible, but I have no way of knowing for sure. This was
one of the two options Lyle proposed to explain my results. I didn't
think the option which involved working the transversus abdominis
(which helps to pull the abdominal area inwards, thereby creating a
flatter look) was applicable in terms of how I was using the
Pavelizer. Therefore, I went with his other choice which involved a
loss of visceral fat. I didn't give too much thought at the time as
to whether this was actually the mechanism involved, but you've done a
good deed by motivating me to research this issue.

So, here's what Dr. Tim Church, medical director of the Cooper
Institute, a Dallas research center on exercise and health funded by
the National Institutes of Health, says:

" 'Interestingly, the visceral fat appears to disappear with a little
bit of exercise, while the subcutaneous fat [is] a little bit more
stubborn and likes to stick around.' "

"People who lose visceral fat, but not skin fat, will notice a thinner
waist size before they see a decline in their overall weight."

http://html.ktvu.com/sh/health/stories/health-246285520030908-080904.html


Please forgive me for appearing to vaccillate in terms of the number
of belt notches I was able to tighten. I know that I wore my belt two
notches in from my baseline condition. I experimented with pulling
the belt in three notches and could do that for a very brief period of
time - we're talking seconds here - but I'm sure I couldn't have worn
it that way.

Let's recap, shall we?

1. I used the Pavelizer a lot on a daily basis for approximately
three months. I started out using the bungee cords which came with
the unit and did negatives exclusively at first. After three months,
I was doing multiple sets of 5 each morning and evening with weight
plates and in ways which worked the obliques.

2. I didn't diet (in terms of how I use this word), but I tried to
eat and drink more sensibly in terms of portion control, frequency of
snacking, etc. I tried not to snack - or to eat only very light
snacks - after dinner. I didn't count calories, still occasionally
ate stupidly, and didn't steer clear of fattening foods which is why I
say I didn't diet.

3. My baseline condition was that I had a flabby, bloated, protruding
stomach. After three months of doing what I consider a damn good
abdominal exercise on a daily basis + eating more sensibly, my profile
was much improved. Is this really too incredible to accept?

Also, take into consideration that my bloated, flabby tummy was only
in that condition because I hadn't worked out for several months.
Before I stopped working out, I was deadlifting as many times a week
as I could get to the gym. A heavy DL is a great ab exercise. I had
also been doing wheel roll-outs (although not standing ones like Steve
can do), suitcase deadlifts, the Full Contact Twist, and several other
exercises which work the abdominal muscles. Add rather indiscriminate
eating habits to a sudden and total discontinuation of exercise in a
50+ year old man and it's easy to see how a tummy can expand like the
national debt.

4. I didn't lose more than a pound or so. Based on what Dr. Church
said, couldn't I have lost visceral fat and achieved a thinner
waistline without losing weight?

Do you think, Roger, that maybe, just possibly - say a
one-in-a-million chance - you're being a little too hyper about this
whole thing?

Watson Davis
March 14th 04, 12:01 AM
"Mistress Krista" > wrote in news:A_L4c.37360
:

>
> "Dally" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> Well, I don't use kettleballs, but I see absolutely nothing wrong with
>> him having a sig line that makes it easier for me to find a product that
>> he says was helpful. Will has a site, Lyle has a site and the only
>> reason Krista isn't selling anything is because she's too socialist.
>>
>
>
> I don't waste time selling things because I'm slowly building an army for
> world domination.

I think the operative word there is "slowly". I've been waiting for the
revolution for a freaking eternity by this point.

Watson (the pencil neck) Davis

Watson Davis
March 14th 04, 12:01 AM
"Mistress Krista" > wrote in news:A_L4c.37360
:

>
> "Dally" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> Well, I don't use kettleballs, but I see absolutely nothing wrong with
>> him having a sig line that makes it easier for me to find a product that
>> he says was helpful. Will has a site, Lyle has a site and the only
>> reason Krista isn't selling anything is because she's too socialist.
>>
>
>
> I don't waste time selling things because I'm slowly building an army for
> world domination.

I think the operative word there is "slowly". I've been waiting for the
revolution for a freaking eternity by this point.

Watson (the pencil neck) Davis

Lee Michaels
March 14th 04, 12:02 AM
> On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:02:51 GMT, wrote in
> misc.fitness.weights:
>
> >
> >Steve often posts thoughtful, lengthy replies on MFW. There are
> >relatively few people here who do the same.

I will say this again.

Steve Freides is an individual who has had some inteesting life experiences,
difficulties and success in overcoming them. That is a good thing.

He also has an overwhelming style that totally hides any contribution that
he makes. And he babbles about Pavel a couple hundred times a day.

Which makes him a cultist in many people'e eyes.

If he were a little more mellow, didn't quote Pavel so much and post less
than a million words a day, he would be much better received.

Lee Michaels
March 14th 04, 12:02 AM
> On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:02:51 GMT, wrote in
> misc.fitness.weights:
>
> >
> >Steve often posts thoughtful, lengthy replies on MFW. There are
> >relatively few people here who do the same.

I will say this again.

Steve Freides is an individual who has had some inteesting life experiences,
difficulties and success in overcoming them. That is a good thing.

He also has an overwhelming style that totally hides any contribution that
he makes. And he babbles about Pavel a couple hundred times a day.

Which makes him a cultist in many people'e eyes.

If he were a little more mellow, didn't quote Pavel so much and post less
than a million words a day, he would be much better received.

Dally
March 14th 04, 12:37 AM
Mistress Krista wrote:
> "Dally" > wrote:

>>Will has a site, Lyle has a site and the only
>>reason Krista isn't selling anything is because she's too socialist.
>>
> I don't waste time selling things because I'm slowly building an army for
> world domination.

Can I be a minion? Pretty please?

Dally

Dally
March 14th 04, 12:37 AM
Mistress Krista wrote:
> "Dally" > wrote:

>>Will has a site, Lyle has a site and the only
>>reason Krista isn't selling anything is because she's too socialist.
>>
> I don't waste time selling things because I'm slowly building an army for
> world domination.

Can I be a minion? Pretty please?

Dally

Pat Styles
March 14th 04, 01:29 AM
> wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 08:48:08 -0800, "Pat Styles"
> > wrote:
>
> > wrote in message
> ...
> >> On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 18:11:03 -0800, "Pat Styles"
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >"Steve Freides" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> >
> >> >> You really don't get it, do you? <sigh>.
> >> >
> >> >No, it is clearly you who don't get it. You've been told repeatedly by
> >numerous
> >> >people you're posts are inappropriately commercial.
> >> >
> >> >> I pay no attention to the income
> >> >> from DragonDoor commissions regarding what I post here. If I think
someone
> >> >> might benefit from reading a book I've read, I'll give a link to the
book.
> >> >
> >> >No, you give a link to your site, from which you benefit financially, and
in
> >> >which you have a commercial interest. Why not just give a title of a
book?
> >Why
> >> >not refer people to amazon or b&n as it has been repeatedly pointed out
the
> >> >books you recommend are substantially cheaper there?
> >> >
> >> >> If it's "cyclical" it may just be, well, I don't know what it may just
be.
> >> >> I haven't been reading the books themselves much lately. Honest, I
don't
> >> >> know.
> >> >
> >> >Finally, something I believe. Steve doesn't know much.
> >> >ps
> >>
> >> Since we're into a deju vu all over again mode, let's revisit the MFW
> >> FAQ on advertising.
> >>
> >> Generally speaking, commercial advertisements are strongly
> >> discouraged.
> >
> >You have a keen grasp of the obvious.
>
> Thank you.
> >
> >> However, "the contents of a .signature appended to your
> >> articles on the group may contain whatever you wish to put there and
> >> that may include pointers to a commercial website or mention of your
> >> products or services--however, this exception is only applicable if
> >> you're actually posting an article that is otherwise appropriate for
> >> the group."
> >
> >Hm, maybe not so keen. Did I say anything about his sig? The objection was
to
> >his pointing people to his site, in which he has a commercial and financial
> >interest, when he could simply recommend a book or let them know the book is
> >available at other sites than his for significantly less. ngfywabcb, b.
> >ps
<snip>

wtf r u babbling about?
ps

Pat Styles
March 14th 04, 01:29 AM
> wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 08:48:08 -0800, "Pat Styles"
> > wrote:
>
> > wrote in message
> ...
> >> On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 18:11:03 -0800, "Pat Styles"
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >"Steve Freides" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> >
> >> >> You really don't get it, do you? <sigh>.
> >> >
> >> >No, it is clearly you who don't get it. You've been told repeatedly by
> >numerous
> >> >people you're posts are inappropriately commercial.
> >> >
> >> >> I pay no attention to the income
> >> >> from DragonDoor commissions regarding what I post here. If I think
someone
> >> >> might benefit from reading a book I've read, I'll give a link to the
book.
> >> >
> >> >No, you give a link to your site, from which you benefit financially, and
in
> >> >which you have a commercial interest. Why not just give a title of a
book?
> >Why
> >> >not refer people to amazon or b&n as it has been repeatedly pointed out
the
> >> >books you recommend are substantially cheaper there?
> >> >
> >> >> If it's "cyclical" it may just be, well, I don't know what it may just
be.
> >> >> I haven't been reading the books themselves much lately. Honest, I
don't
> >> >> know.
> >> >
> >> >Finally, something I believe. Steve doesn't know much.
> >> >ps
> >>
> >> Since we're into a deju vu all over again mode, let's revisit the MFW
> >> FAQ on advertising.
> >>
> >> Generally speaking, commercial advertisements are strongly
> >> discouraged.
> >
> >You have a keen grasp of the obvious.
>
> Thank you.
> >
> >> However, "the contents of a .signature appended to your
> >> articles on the group may contain whatever you wish to put there and
> >> that may include pointers to a commercial website or mention of your
> >> products or services--however, this exception is only applicable if
> >> you're actually posting an article that is otherwise appropriate for
> >> the group."
> >
> >Hm, maybe not so keen. Did I say anything about his sig? The objection was
to
> >his pointing people to his site, in which he has a commercial and financial
> >interest, when he could simply recommend a book or let them know the book is
> >available at other sites than his for significantly less. ngfywabcb, b.
> >ps
<snip>

wtf r u babbling about?
ps

March 14th 04, 01:43 AM
On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 00:46:24 GMT, wrote:

>On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 23:48:30 GMT, wrote:
>
>
>>Let's recap, shall we?
>
><snip>
>
>
>
>
> Let me recap:
>
>First you lost a few pounds. Then it was just one pound.
>
>
>First you dropped several notches in your belt. Then it was only two
>notches.
>
>
>First you said it was highly likely that your result was due to loss
>of visceral fat. Then you said you denied you lost any fat.
>
>
>First you said you used the Pavelizer for two months to accounts for
>the results. Then you said you used it for several months to get these
>results.
>
>
>First you said that the Pavelizer was the reason why you lost your
>belly fat since you did not change anything other that using that
>device. Then you say that you never said it was spot reduction.
>
>If I missed any other of your statements which contradict each other I
>am sorry.
>
>The bottom line is that it is clear that you cannot be trusted with
>presented information. YOur story has changed so many times in so many
>areas that it is clear that you are just making it up as you go along
>and have difficulty keeping track of what you said.
>
>You are a shill. And a bad one at that.
>
>I will give you the last word since I think I have demonstrated your
>complete lack of integrity to anyone who has a few brain cells left.
>
>Roger

It's OK if you want to quibble and try to prove something. You're
succeeding in the former and failing in the latter, but you can't see
that.

When I try to make weightlifting progress, I maintain a log. I note
the exercise, the date, the weight(s), the reps, the sets, etc. When
I was using the Pavelizer, I was in "casual" mode. I wasn't keeping
careful records. I wasn't even weighing myself. So everything I've
mentioned in regard to using the Pavelizer during the time period in
question is an approximation, a best guess. I think I used it for
close to three months - maybe it was a week or so less. I don't
really know. All I can say is that I was able to notch my belt in two
slots within this relatively short time period. At the end, my belly
didn't bulge nearly as much as it did before I started using the
Pavelizer and trying to eat more sensibly. I looked better and got
lots of unsolicited compliments. That's truly unbelievable, isn't it?

So, Roger, in this context, please excuse the sin I committed by first
saying that I lost several pounds and later saying that my scale
proved I had lost only one pound.

I never originally said I lost belly fat. After Lyle posited that it
might be a question of visceral fat, I agreed that this seemed likely,
but I never tried to verify this. (This would probably be a very
difficult thing to do.) All I said is that my stomach appeared
flatter.

I also never said I achieved spot reduction. Outside of the claims I
have seen for CLA, I have never read anything that would lead me to
believe that spot reduction is possible. If you want to interpret my
remarks to make it seem as though I made these claims, that's up to
you.

If you want to buzz around like a little fly looking for ****, that's
your choice. There are only three questions of general importance in
this thread:

(1) Are Janda-type situps a worthwhile abdominal exercise?
(2) Is the Pavelizer a (somewhat expensive) gizmo that allows one
to do an unassisted Janda-type situp?
and
(3) Can someone lose visceral fat with a modest amount of exercise
and, in so doing, notice a thinner waistline before seeing a
decline in his/her overall weight?

Roger, your ad hominem attacks on me (and others) are uninteresting.
Perhaps, you should stick to posting exercise-related questions and
comments.

March 14th 04, 01:43 AM
On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 00:46:24 GMT, wrote:

>On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 23:48:30 GMT, wrote:
>
>
>>Let's recap, shall we?
>
><snip>
>
>
>
>
> Let me recap:
>
>First you lost a few pounds. Then it was just one pound.
>
>
>First you dropped several notches in your belt. Then it was only two
>notches.
>
>
>First you said it was highly likely that your result was due to loss
>of visceral fat. Then you said you denied you lost any fat.
>
>
>First you said you used the Pavelizer for two months to accounts for
>the results. Then you said you used it for several months to get these
>results.
>
>
>First you said that the Pavelizer was the reason why you lost your
>belly fat since you did not change anything other that using that
>device. Then you say that you never said it was spot reduction.
>
>If I missed any other of your statements which contradict each other I
>am sorry.
>
>The bottom line is that it is clear that you cannot be trusted with
>presented information. YOur story has changed so many times in so many
>areas that it is clear that you are just making it up as you go along
>and have difficulty keeping track of what you said.
>
>You are a shill. And a bad one at that.
>
>I will give you the last word since I think I have demonstrated your
>complete lack of integrity to anyone who has a few brain cells left.
>
>Roger

It's OK if you want to quibble and try to prove something. You're
succeeding in the former and failing in the latter, but you can't see
that.

When I try to make weightlifting progress, I maintain a log. I note
the exercise, the date, the weight(s), the reps, the sets, etc. When
I was using the Pavelizer, I was in "casual" mode. I wasn't keeping
careful records. I wasn't even weighing myself. So everything I've
mentioned in regard to using the Pavelizer during the time period in
question is an approximation, a best guess. I think I used it for
close to three months - maybe it was a week or so less. I don't
really know. All I can say is that I was able to notch my belt in two
slots within this relatively short time period. At the end, my belly
didn't bulge nearly as much as it did before I started using the
Pavelizer and trying to eat more sensibly. I looked better and got
lots of unsolicited compliments. That's truly unbelievable, isn't it?

So, Roger, in this context, please excuse the sin I committed by first
saying that I lost several pounds and later saying that my scale
proved I had lost only one pound.

I never originally said I lost belly fat. After Lyle posited that it
might be a question of visceral fat, I agreed that this seemed likely,
but I never tried to verify this. (This would probably be a very
difficult thing to do.) All I said is that my stomach appeared
flatter.

I also never said I achieved spot reduction. Outside of the claims I
have seen for CLA, I have never read anything that would lead me to
believe that spot reduction is possible. If you want to interpret my
remarks to make it seem as though I made these claims, that's up to
you.

If you want to buzz around like a little fly looking for ****, that's
your choice. There are only three questions of general importance in
this thread:

(1) Are Janda-type situps a worthwhile abdominal exercise?
(2) Is the Pavelizer a (somewhat expensive) gizmo that allows one
to do an unassisted Janda-type situp?
and
(3) Can someone lose visceral fat with a modest amount of exercise
and, in so doing, notice a thinner waistline before seeing a
decline in his/her overall weight?

Roger, your ad hominem attacks on me (and others) are uninteresting.
Perhaps, you should stick to posting exercise-related questions and
comments.

Donovan Rebbechi
March 14th 04, 01:48 AM
In article >, wrote:

>>He can't help himself. He probably doesn't even realise he's doing it until
>>he's called on it. As a general principle, fringe groups tend to inspire
>>fanaticism among devotees (though I'm not sure why this is).
>>
>>Cheers,
>
> I have a distal biceps tendon injury and a very weak belief system.
> My doc advises me to go for PT but he added that he doesn't think much
> of PT so I'm disheartened. I wonder whether joining a fringe group
> would activate some kind of mind-over-matter dynamic and cause my
> injury to heal faster. I've been researching this subject and have
> learned that a small number of people are very enthusiastic about
> doing compound exercises which involve lifting relatively heavy free
> weights. The shapes of these weights differ and there are many other
> variations, but they all agree that such exercises are a fine tonic
> for the mind and body. You think this might work for me?

That was kind of funny. However, unlike HIT or the Kettlebell school, I think
the "MFW belief system" is more of a "groupthink" (a powerlifting bias for
the most part) than a cult mentality. Sure, they like their low rep compound
movements, and some of them religiously hold certain beliefs that are very
hard to justify with hard evidence ("training to failure is harmful", "the
smith machine is dangerous") but they stop short of presenting powerlifting as
a complete religion with its own philosophy (like Mentzer's Randian rambling)
or as a solution to all things (like Steve's claim on the rec.running group
that swinging kettlebells around is more effective cardio than running) Also,
for the most part, the local groupthink for the most part has some basis in
empirical data, and at least some of its proponents are open to hard science,
whereas cults typically base their views on emotive manifestos.

And not everyone on MFW even agrees with the local groupthink. If you're
attentive, you'll notice for example that Lyle and Whit from time to time take
issue with some of the powerlifting reliefs, and argue for the "bodybuilding
viewpoint".

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Donovan Rebbechi
March 14th 04, 01:48 AM
In article >, wrote:

>>He can't help himself. He probably doesn't even realise he's doing it until
>>he's called on it. As a general principle, fringe groups tend to inspire
>>fanaticism among devotees (though I'm not sure why this is).
>>
>>Cheers,
>
> I have a distal biceps tendon injury and a very weak belief system.
> My doc advises me to go for PT but he added that he doesn't think much
> of PT so I'm disheartened. I wonder whether joining a fringe group
> would activate some kind of mind-over-matter dynamic and cause my
> injury to heal faster. I've been researching this subject and have
> learned that a small number of people are very enthusiastic about
> doing compound exercises which involve lifting relatively heavy free
> weights. The shapes of these weights differ and there are many other
> variations, but they all agree that such exercises are a fine tonic
> for the mind and body. You think this might work for me?

That was kind of funny. However, unlike HIT or the Kettlebell school, I think
the "MFW belief system" is more of a "groupthink" (a powerlifting bias for
the most part) than a cult mentality. Sure, they like their low rep compound
movements, and some of them religiously hold certain beliefs that are very
hard to justify with hard evidence ("training to failure is harmful", "the
smith machine is dangerous") but they stop short of presenting powerlifting as
a complete religion with its own philosophy (like Mentzer's Randian rambling)
or as a solution to all things (like Steve's claim on the rec.running group
that swinging kettlebells around is more effective cardio than running) Also,
for the most part, the local groupthink for the most part has some basis in
empirical data, and at least some of its proponents are open to hard science,
whereas cults typically base their views on emotive manifestos.

And not everyone on MFW even agrees with the local groupthink. If you're
attentive, you'll notice for example that Lyle and Whit from time to time take
issue with some of the powerlifting reliefs, and argue for the "bodybuilding
viewpoint".

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

John Hanson
March 14th 04, 02:45 AM
On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:29:30 -0800, "Pat Styles"
> wrote in misc.fitness.weights:

> wrote in message
...
>> On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 08:48:08 -0800, "Pat Styles"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >> On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 18:11:03 -0800, "Pat Styles"
>> >> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >"Steve Freides" > wrote in message
>> >> ...
>> >> >
>> >> >> You really don't get it, do you? <sigh>.
>> >> >
>> >> >No, it is clearly you who don't get it. You've been told repeatedly by
>> >numerous
>> >> >people you're posts are inappropriately commercial.
>> >> >
>> >> >> I pay no attention to the income
>> >> >> from DragonDoor commissions regarding what I post here. If I think
>someone
>> >> >> might benefit from reading a book I've read, I'll give a link to the
>book.
>> >> >
>> >> >No, you give a link to your site, from which you benefit financially, and
>in
>> >> >which you have a commercial interest. Why not just give a title of a
>book?
>> >Why
>> >> >not refer people to amazon or b&n as it has been repeatedly pointed out
>the
>> >> >books you recommend are substantially cheaper there?
>> >> >
>> >> >> If it's "cyclical" it may just be, well, I don't know what it may just
>be.
>> >> >> I haven't been reading the books themselves much lately. Honest, I
>don't
>> >> >> know.
>> >> >
>> >> >Finally, something I believe. Steve doesn't know much.
>> >> >ps
>> >>
>> >> Since we're into a deju vu all over again mode, let's revisit the MFW
>> >> FAQ on advertising.
>> >>
>> >> Generally speaking, commercial advertisements are strongly
>> >> discouraged.
>> >
>> >You have a keen grasp of the obvious.
>>
>> Thank you.
>> >
>> >> However, "the contents of a .signature appended to your
>> >> articles on the group may contain whatever you wish to put there and
>> >> that may include pointers to a commercial website or mention of your
>> >> products or services--however, this exception is only applicable if
>> >> you're actually posting an article that is otherwise appropriate for
>> >> the group."
>> >
>> >Hm, maybe not so keen. Did I say anything about his sig? The objection was
>to
>> >his pointing people to his site, in which he has a commercial and financial
>> >interest, when he could simply recommend a book or let them know the book is
>> >available at other sites than his for significantly less. ngfywabcb, b.
>> >ps
><snip>
>
>wtf r u babbling about?

I think that is "now go **** yourself with a broken coke bottle,
bitch".

John Hanson
March 14th 04, 02:45 AM
On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:29:30 -0800, "Pat Styles"
> wrote in misc.fitness.weights:

> wrote in message
...
>> On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 08:48:08 -0800, "Pat Styles"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >> On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 18:11:03 -0800, "Pat Styles"
>> >> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >"Steve Freides" > wrote in message
>> >> ...
>> >> >
>> >> >> You really don't get it, do you? <sigh>.
>> >> >
>> >> >No, it is clearly you who don't get it. You've been told repeatedly by
>> >numerous
>> >> >people you're posts are inappropriately commercial.
>> >> >
>> >> >> I pay no attention to the income
>> >> >> from DragonDoor commissions regarding what I post here. If I think
>someone
>> >> >> might benefit from reading a book I've read, I'll give a link to the
>book.
>> >> >
>> >> >No, you give a link to your site, from which you benefit financially, and
>in
>> >> >which you have a commercial interest. Why not just give a title of a
>book?
>> >Why
>> >> >not refer people to amazon or b&n as it has been repeatedly pointed out
>the
>> >> >books you recommend are substantially cheaper there?
>> >> >
>> >> >> If it's "cyclical" it may just be, well, I don't know what it may just
>be.
>> >> >> I haven't been reading the books themselves much lately. Honest, I
>don't
>> >> >> know.
>> >> >
>> >> >Finally, something I believe. Steve doesn't know much.
>> >> >ps
>> >>
>> >> Since we're into a deju vu all over again mode, let's revisit the MFW
>> >> FAQ on advertising.
>> >>
>> >> Generally speaking, commercial advertisements are strongly
>> >> discouraged.
>> >
>> >You have a keen grasp of the obvious.
>>
>> Thank you.
>> >
>> >> However, "the contents of a .signature appended to your
>> >> articles on the group may contain whatever you wish to put there and
>> >> that may include pointers to a commercial website or mention of your
>> >> products or services--however, this exception is only applicable if
>> >> you're actually posting an article that is otherwise appropriate for
>> >> the group."
>> >
>> >Hm, maybe not so keen. Did I say anything about his sig? The objection was
>to
>> >his pointing people to his site, in which he has a commercial and financial
>> >interest, when he could simply recommend a book or let them know the book is
>> >available at other sites than his for significantly less. ngfywabcb, b.
>> >ps
><snip>
>
>wtf r u babbling about?

I think that is "now go **** yourself with a broken coke bottle,
bitch".

miranda
March 14th 04, 04:05 AM
Dally > wrote in message
...
> Mistress Krista wrote:
> > "Dally" > wrote:
>
> >>Will has a site, Lyle has a site and the only
> >>reason Krista isn't selling anything is because she's too socialist.
> >>
> > I don't waste time selling things because I'm slowly building an army
for
> > world domination.
>
> Can I be a minion? Pretty please?
>
> Dally

a krista flankie. should have known

whit

>

miranda
March 14th 04, 04:05 AM
Dally > wrote in message
...
> Mistress Krista wrote:
> > "Dally" > wrote:
>
> >>Will has a site, Lyle has a site and the only
> >>reason Krista isn't selling anything is because she's too socialist.
> >>
> > I don't waste time selling things because I'm slowly building an army
for
> > world domination.
>
> Can I be a minion? Pretty please?
>
> Dally

a krista flankie. should have known

whit

>

miranda
March 14th 04, 04:06 AM
Watson Davis > wrote in message
2.205...
> "Mistress Krista" > wrote in
news:A_L4c.37360
> :
>
> >
> > "Dally" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >>
> >> Well, I don't use kettleballs, but I see absolutely nothing wrong with
> >> him having a sig line that makes it easier for me to find a product
that
> >> he says was helpful. Will has a site, Lyle has a site and the only
> >> reason Krista isn't selling anything is because she's too socialist.
> >>
> >
> >
> > I don't waste time selling things because I'm slowly building an army
for
> > world domination.
>
> I think the operative word there is "slowly". I've been waiting for the
> revolution for a freaking eternity by this point.
>
> Watson (the pencil neck) Davis

it will be televised

whit

miranda
March 14th 04, 04:06 AM
Watson Davis > wrote in message
2.205...
> "Mistress Krista" > wrote in
news:A_L4c.37360
> :
>
> >
> > "Dally" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >>
> >> Well, I don't use kettleballs, but I see absolutely nothing wrong with
> >> him having a sig line that makes it easier for me to find a product
that
> >> he says was helpful. Will has a site, Lyle has a site and the only
> >> reason Krista isn't selling anything is because she's too socialist.
> >>
> >
> >
> > I don't waste time selling things because I'm slowly building an army
for
> > world domination.
>
> I think the operative word there is "slowly". I've been waiting for the
> revolution for a freaking eternity by this point.
>
> Watson (the pencil neck) Davis

it will be televised

whit

March 14th 04, 04:40 AM
On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 01:48:54 +0000 (UTC), Donovan Rebbechi
> wrote:

>In article >, wrote:
>
>>>He can't help himself. He probably doesn't even realise he's doing it until
>>>he's called on it. As a general principle, fringe groups tend to inspire
>>>fanaticism among devotees (though I'm not sure why this is).
>>>
>>>Cheers,
>>
>> I have a distal biceps tendon injury and a very weak belief system.
>> My doc advises me to go for PT but he added that he doesn't think much
>> of PT so I'm disheartened. I wonder whether joining a fringe group
>> would activate some kind of mind-over-matter dynamic and cause my
>> injury to heal faster. I've been researching this subject and have
>> learned that a small number of people are very enthusiastic about
>> doing compound exercises which involve lifting relatively heavy free
>> weights. The shapes of these weights differ and there are many other
>> variations, but they all agree that such exercises are a fine tonic
>> for the mind and body. You think this might work for me?
>
>That was kind of funny. However, unlike HIT or the Kettlebell school, I think
>the "MFW belief system" is more of a "groupthink" (a powerlifting bias for
>the most part) than a cult mentality. Sure, they like their low rep compound
>movements, and some of them religiously hold certain beliefs that are very
>hard to justify with hard evidence ("training to failure is harmful", "the
>smith machine is dangerous") but they stop short of presenting powerlifting as
>a complete religion with its own philosophy (like Mentzer's Randian rambling)
>or as a solution to all things (like Steve's claim on the rec.running group
>that swinging kettlebells around is more effective cardio than running) Also,
>for the most part, the local groupthink for the most part has some basis in
>empirical data, and at least some of its proponents are open to hard science,
>whereas cults typically base their views on emotive manifestos.

Do whatever works for you. I will not train to failure or do heavy
(for me) squats in the Smith machine.

I don't run and plan to do cardio through KB exercises. Since I'm not
a runner and little more than a neophtye KB user, I wouldn't presume
to debate whether KB work is more effective cardio than running. I do
know that KB enthusiasts tout the cardio benefits of increasing
poundage, increasing the reps, speeding up the pace and/or extending
the session duration (to quote Marty Gallagher). . . And, yes, you can
do these things with BBs and DBs.
>
>And not everyone on MFW even agrees with the local groupthink. If you're
>attentive, you'll notice for example that Lyle and Whit from time to time take
>issue with some of the powerlifting reliefs, and argue for the "bodybuilding
>viewpoint".

I don't monitor MFW constantly, but I have certainly seen many
examples of people taking issue with one thing or another. Sometimes
these exchanges are interesting to follow. If the goal is to acquire
limit strength, I'll basically go with the low rep, compound movement
crowd. Still, I wouldn't be the tiniest bit surprised to learn that in
some cases a bodybuilding approach could be usefully integrated with a
training program that emphasizes compound exercises. Perhaps there
are particular weaknesses that require focused attention. As long as
the outcome isn't sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, it's all good. Ronnie
Coleman comes to mind as an example of a very strong bodybuilder who
trains with heavy, compound exercises. He doubtless does other things
as well.

I, too, favor evidence-based approaches. (That's why I like this
particular aspect of the Prez's NCLB initiaitve. Of course, he'll
ruin this by making it difficult for schools to use anything besides
curricular materials from major educational publishing companies.)
There are doubtless more US studies involving DBs and BBs than KBs.
There are, I am sure, Russian studies on KBs, but there are some who
would say "Why should I give a rat's ass about Russian research?" If,
on the other hand, you are willing to consider Russian research, you
might come to the conclusion that KB enthusiasts can offer more than
emotive manifestos.

March 14th 04, 04:40 AM
On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 01:48:54 +0000 (UTC), Donovan Rebbechi
> wrote:

>In article >, wrote:
>
>>>He can't help himself. He probably doesn't even realise he's doing it until
>>>he's called on it. As a general principle, fringe groups tend to inspire
>>>fanaticism among devotees (though I'm not sure why this is).
>>>
>>>Cheers,
>>
>> I have a distal biceps tendon injury and a very weak belief system.
>> My doc advises me to go for PT but he added that he doesn't think much
>> of PT so I'm disheartened. I wonder whether joining a fringe group
>> would activate some kind of mind-over-matter dynamic and cause my
>> injury to heal faster. I've been researching this subject and have
>> learned that a small number of people are very enthusiastic about
>> doing compound exercises which involve lifting relatively heavy free
>> weights. The shapes of these weights differ and there are many other
>> variations, but they all agree that such exercises are a fine tonic
>> for the mind and body. You think this might work for me?
>
>That was kind of funny. However, unlike HIT or the Kettlebell school, I think
>the "MFW belief system" is more of a "groupthink" (a powerlifting bias for
>the most part) than a cult mentality. Sure, they like their low rep compound
>movements, and some of them religiously hold certain beliefs that are very
>hard to justify with hard evidence ("training to failure is harmful", "the
>smith machine is dangerous") but they stop short of presenting powerlifting as
>a complete religion with its own philosophy (like Mentzer's Randian rambling)
>or as a solution to all things (like Steve's claim on the rec.running group
>that swinging kettlebells around is more effective cardio than running) Also,
>for the most part, the local groupthink for the most part has some basis in
>empirical data, and at least some of its proponents are open to hard science,
>whereas cults typically base their views on emotive manifestos.

Do whatever works for you. I will not train to failure or do heavy
(for me) squats in the Smith machine.

I don't run and plan to do cardio through KB exercises. Since I'm not
a runner and little more than a neophtye KB user, I wouldn't presume
to debate whether KB work is more effective cardio than running. I do
know that KB enthusiasts tout the cardio benefits of increasing
poundage, increasing the reps, speeding up the pace and/or extending
the session duration (to quote Marty Gallagher). . . And, yes, you can
do these things with BBs and DBs.
>
>And not everyone on MFW even agrees with the local groupthink. If you're
>attentive, you'll notice for example that Lyle and Whit from time to time take
>issue with some of the powerlifting reliefs, and argue for the "bodybuilding
>viewpoint".

I don't monitor MFW constantly, but I have certainly seen many
examples of people taking issue with one thing or another. Sometimes
these exchanges are interesting to follow. If the goal is to acquire
limit strength, I'll basically go with the low rep, compound movement
crowd. Still, I wouldn't be the tiniest bit surprised to learn that in
some cases a bodybuilding approach could be usefully integrated with a
training program that emphasizes compound exercises. Perhaps there
are particular weaknesses that require focused attention. As long as
the outcome isn't sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, it's all good. Ronnie
Coleman comes to mind as an example of a very strong bodybuilder who
trains with heavy, compound exercises. He doubtless does other things
as well.

I, too, favor evidence-based approaches. (That's why I like this
particular aspect of the Prez's NCLB initiaitve. Of course, he'll
ruin this by making it difficult for schools to use anything besides
curricular materials from major educational publishing companies.)
There are doubtless more US studies involving DBs and BBs than KBs.
There are, I am sure, Russian studies on KBs, but there are some who
would say "Why should I give a rat's ass about Russian research?" If,
on the other hand, you are willing to consider Russian research, you
might come to the conclusion that KB enthusiasts can offer more than
emotive manifestos.

Steve
March 14th 04, 09:01 AM
Mistress Krista wrote:
>>I think the operative word there is "slowly". I've been waiting for the
>>revolution for a freaking eternity by this point.
>>
>
>
>
> Contrary to popular belief, it is difficult to organize a feminist
> conspiracy. Everyone keeps bitching about how long the women's bathroom
> lineups are.


Will the revoloution speed up the lines to women's bathrooms?

Steve
March 14th 04, 09:01 AM
Mistress Krista wrote:
>>I think the operative word there is "slowly". I've been waiting for the
>>revolution for a freaking eternity by this point.
>>
>
>
>
> Contrary to popular belief, it is difficult to organize a feminist
> conspiracy. Everyone keeps bitching about how long the women's bathroom
> lineups are.


Will the revoloution speed up the lines to women's bathrooms?

Steve
March 14th 04, 09:09 AM
Dally wrote:
> Dally, considering the benefits of living as a man

- you can pee standing up
- you can pee in the woods, the roadside, anywhere you like
- its okay to be a slob
- consistent mental states througout the month

Steve
March 14th 04, 09:09 AM
Dally wrote:
> Dally, considering the benefits of living as a man

- you can pee standing up
- you can pee in the woods, the roadside, anywhere you like
- its okay to be a slob
- consistent mental states througout the month

Steve
March 14th 04, 09:09 AM
Dally wrote:
> Dally, considering the benefits of living as a man

- you can pee standing up
- you can pee in the woods, the roadside, anywhere you like
- its okay to be a slob
- consistent mental states througout the month

John HUDSON
March 14th 04, 10:06 AM
On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 00:02:38 GMT, "Lee Michaels"
> wrote:

>
>> On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:02:51 GMT, wrote in
>> misc.fitness.weights:
>>
>> >
>> >Steve often posts thoughtful, lengthy replies on MFW. There are
>> >relatively few people here who do the same.
>
>I will say this again.
>
>Steve Freides is an individual who has had some inteesting life experiences,
>difficulties and success in overcoming them. That is a good thing.
>
>He also has an overwhelming style that totally hides any contribution that
>he makes. And he babbles about Pavel a couple hundred times a day.

I must have told you at least a million times not to exaggerate Lee!!
;o)

John HUDSON
March 14th 04, 10:06 AM
On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 00:02:38 GMT, "Lee Michaels"
> wrote:

>
>> On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:02:51 GMT, wrote in
>> misc.fitness.weights:
>>
>> >
>> >Steve often posts thoughtful, lengthy replies on MFW. There are
>> >relatively few people here who do the same.
>
>I will say this again.
>
>Steve Freides is an individual who has had some inteesting life experiences,
>difficulties and success in overcoming them. That is a good thing.
>
>He also has an overwhelming style that totally hides any contribution that
>he makes. And he babbles about Pavel a couple hundred times a day.

I must have told you at least a million times not to exaggerate Lee!!
;o)

Mistress Krista
March 14th 04, 12:05 PM
"Watson Davis" > wrote in message
2.205...
> "Mistress Krista" > wrote in
news:A_L4c.37360
> :
>
> >
> > "Dally" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >>
> >> Well, I don't use kettleballs, but I see absolutely nothing wrong with
> >> him having a sig line that makes it easier for me to find a product
that
> >> he says was helpful. Will has a site, Lyle has a site and the only
> >> reason Krista isn't selling anything is because she's too socialist.
> >>
> >
> >
> > I don't waste time selling things because I'm slowly building an army
for
> > world domination.
>
> I think the operative word there is "slowly". I've been waiting for the
> revolution for a freaking eternity by this point.
>


Contrary to popular belief, it is difficult to organize a feminist
conspiracy. Everyone keeps bitching about how long the women's bathroom
lineups are.


Krista

--
http://www.stumptuous.com/weights.html
http://www.trans-health.com
mistresskrista at stumptuous dot com

Mistress Krista
March 14th 04, 12:05 PM
"Watson Davis" > wrote in message
2.205...
> "Mistress Krista" > wrote in
news:A_L4c.37360
> :
>
> >
> > "Dally" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >>
> >> Well, I don't use kettleballs, but I see absolutely nothing wrong with
> >> him having a sig line that makes it easier for me to find a product
that
> >> he says was helpful. Will has a site, Lyle has a site and the only
> >> reason Krista isn't selling anything is because she's too socialist.
> >>
> >
> >
> > I don't waste time selling things because I'm slowly building an army
for
> > world domination.
>
> I think the operative word there is "slowly". I've been waiting for the
> revolution for a freaking eternity by this point.
>


Contrary to popular belief, it is difficult to organize a feminist
conspiracy. Everyone keeps bitching about how long the women's bathroom
lineups are.


Krista

--
http://www.stumptuous.com/weights.html
http://www.trans-health.com
mistresskrista at stumptuous dot com

Dally
March 14th 04, 01:55 PM
Mistress Krista wrote:
> "Watson Davis" > wrote:
>>"Mistress Krista" > wrote :
>>>"Dally" > wrote:

>>>>Will has a site, Lyle has a site and the only
>>>>reason Krista isn't selling anything is because she's too socialist.
>>>
>>>I don't waste time selling things because I'm slowly building an army
>>>for world domination.
>>
>>I think the operative word there is "slowly". I've been waiting for the
>>revolution for a freaking eternity by this point.
>>
> Contrary to popular belief, it is difficult to organize a feminist
> conspiracy. Everyone keeps bitching about how long the women's bathroom
> lineups are.

Hence the transgender movement.

Dally, considering the benefits of living as a man

Dally
March 14th 04, 01:55 PM
Mistress Krista wrote:
> "Watson Davis" > wrote:
>>"Mistress Krista" > wrote :
>>>"Dally" > wrote:

>>>>Will has a site, Lyle has a site and the only
>>>>reason Krista isn't selling anything is because she's too socialist.
>>>
>>>I don't waste time selling things because I'm slowly building an army
>>>for world domination.
>>
>>I think the operative word there is "slowly". I've been waiting for the
>>revolution for a freaking eternity by this point.
>>
> Contrary to popular belief, it is difficult to organize a feminist
> conspiracy. Everyone keeps bitching about how long the women's bathroom
> lineups are.

Hence the transgender movement.

Dally, considering the benefits of living as a man

Stephen Mulholland
March 14th 04, 07:37 PM
"DeWayne" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Stephen Mulholland" > wrote in message
> om...
> > (Andreas M) wrote in message
> >...
> >
> > <snip forearm/elbow tendonitis tale of woe>
> Can you buy ibuprofen gel?

Here in the UK, yes, you can buy it OTC.

Stephen

Stephen Mulholland
March 14th 04, 07:37 PM
"DeWayne" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Stephen Mulholland" > wrote in message
> om...
> > (Andreas M) wrote in message
> >...
> >
> > <snip forearm/elbow tendonitis tale of woe>
> Can you buy ibuprofen gel?

Here in the UK, yes, you can buy it OTC.

Stephen

Stephen Mulholland
March 14th 04, 07:37 PM
"DeWayne" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Stephen Mulholland" > wrote in message
> om...
> > (Andreas M) wrote in message
> >...
> >
> > <snip forearm/elbow tendonitis tale of woe>
> Can you buy ibuprofen gel?

Here in the UK, yes, you can buy it OTC.

Stephen

David Cohen
March 14th 04, 08:17 PM
"Stephen Mulholland" > wrote
> "DeWayne" > wrote
> > "Stephen Mulholland" > wrote
> > > (Andreas M) wrote
> > > <snip forearm/elbow tendonitis tale of woe>
> > Can you buy ibuprofen gel?
>
> Here in the UK, yes, you can buy it OTC.

Hey, Stephen, good to see ya'.

In the US, ibuprofen gel can be mailordered. www.lef.org is one
source.

David

David Cohen
March 14th 04, 08:17 PM
"Stephen Mulholland" > wrote
> "DeWayne" > wrote
> > "Stephen Mulholland" > wrote
> > > (Andreas M) wrote
> > > <snip forearm/elbow tendonitis tale of woe>
> > Can you buy ibuprofen gel?
>
> Here in the UK, yes, you can buy it OTC.

Hey, Stephen, good to see ya'.

In the US, ibuprofen gel can be mailordered. www.lef.org is one
source.

David

David Cohen
March 14th 04, 08:17 PM
"Stephen Mulholland" > wrote
> "DeWayne" > wrote
> > "Stephen Mulholland" > wrote
> > > (Andreas M) wrote
> > > <snip forearm/elbow tendonitis tale of woe>
> > Can you buy ibuprofen gel?
>
> Here in the UK, yes, you can buy it OTC.

Hey, Stephen, good to see ya'.

In the US, ibuprofen gel can be mailordered. www.lef.org is one
source.

David

Pat Styles
March 14th 04, 10:24 PM
"John Hanson" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:29:30 -0800, "Pat Styles"
> > wrote in misc.fitness.weights:
>
> > wrote in message
> ...
> >> On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 08:48:08 -0800, "Pat Styles"
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> >> On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 18:11:03 -0800, "Pat Styles"
> >> >> > wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >"Steve Freides" > wrote in message
> >> >> ...
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> You really don't get it, do you? <sigh>.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >No, it is clearly you who don't get it. You've been told repeatedly by
> >> >numerous
> >> >> >people you're posts are inappropriately commercial.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> I pay no attention to the income
> >> >> >> from DragonDoor commissions regarding what I post here. If I think
> >someone
> >> >> >> might benefit from reading a book I've read, I'll give a link to the
> >book.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >No, you give a link to your site, from which you benefit financially,
and
> >in
> >> >> >which you have a commercial interest. Why not just give a title of a
> >book?
> >> >Why
> >> >> >not refer people to amazon or b&n as it has been repeatedly pointed out
> >the
> >> >> >books you recommend are substantially cheaper there?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> If it's "cyclical" it may just be, well, I don't know what it may
just
> >be.
> >> >> >> I haven't been reading the books themselves much lately. Honest, I
> >don't
> >> >> >> know.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Finally, something I believe. Steve doesn't know much.
> >> >> >ps
> >> >>
> >> >> Since we're into a deju vu all over again mode, let's revisit the MFW
> >> >> FAQ on advertising.
> >> >>
> >> >> Generally speaking, commercial advertisements are strongly
> >> >> discouraged.
> >> >
> >> >You have a keen grasp of the obvious.
> >>
> >> Thank you.
> >> >
> >> >> However, "the contents of a .signature appended to your
> >> >> articles on the group may contain whatever you wish to put there and
> >> >> that may include pointers to a commercial website or mention of your
> >> >> products or services--however, this exception is only applicable if
> >> >> you're actually posting an article that is otherwise appropriate for
> >> >> the group."
> >> >
> >> >Hm, maybe not so keen. Did I say anything about his sig? The objection
was
> >to
> >> >his pointing people to his site, in which he has a commercial and
financial
> >> >interest, when he could simply recommend a book or let them know the book
is
> >> >available at other sites than his for significantly less. ngfywabcb, b.
> >> >ps
> ><snip>
> >
> >wtf r u babbling about?
>
> I think that is "now go **** yourself with a broken coke bottle,
> bitch".

Yeah, I know; I wrote it. I snipped out all his babble about sig lines because
I never mentioned Steve's sig line. My objection was to the way he points
people to a book on his site, which is over priced, rather than to simply the
title of a book or to a site which sells it for far less. Apparently he has no
response to that.
ps

Pat Styles
March 14th 04, 10:24 PM
"John Hanson" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:29:30 -0800, "Pat Styles"
> > wrote in misc.fitness.weights:
>
> > wrote in message
> ...
> >> On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 08:48:08 -0800, "Pat Styles"
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> >> On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 18:11:03 -0800, "Pat Styles"
> >> >> > wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >"Steve Freides" > wrote in message
> >> >> ...
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> You really don't get it, do you? <sigh>.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >No, it is clearly you who don't get it. You've been told repeatedly by
> >> >numerous
> >> >> >people you're posts are inappropriately commercial.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> I pay no attention to the income
> >> >> >> from DragonDoor commissions regarding what I post here. If I think
> >someone
> >> >> >> might benefit from reading a book I've read, I'll give a link to the
> >book.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >No, you give a link to your site, from which you benefit financially,
and
> >in
> >> >> >which you have a commercial interest. Why not just give a title of a
> >book?
> >> >Why
> >> >> >not refer people to amazon or b&n as it has been repeatedly pointed out
> >the
> >> >> >books you recommend are substantially cheaper there?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> If it's "cyclical" it may just be, well, I don't know what it may
just
> >be.
> >> >> >> I haven't been reading the books themselves much lately. Honest, I
> >don't
> >> >> >> know.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Finally, something I believe. Steve doesn't know much.
> >> >> >ps
> >> >>
> >> >> Since we're into a deju vu all over again mode, let's revisit the MFW
> >> >> FAQ on advertising.
> >> >>
> >> >> Generally speaking, commercial advertisements are strongly
> >> >> discouraged.
> >> >
> >> >You have a keen grasp of the obvious.
> >>
> >> Thank you.
> >> >
> >> >> However, "the contents of a .signature appended to your
> >> >> articles on the group may contain whatever you wish to put there and
> >> >> that may include pointers to a commercial website or mention of your
> >> >> products or services--however, this exception is only applicable if
> >> >> you're actually posting an article that is otherwise appropriate for
> >> >> the group."
> >> >
> >> >Hm, maybe not so keen. Did I say anything about his sig? The objection
was
> >to
> >> >his pointing people to his site, in which he has a commercial and
financial
> >> >interest, when he could simply recommend a book or let them know the book
is
> >> >available at other sites than his for significantly less. ngfywabcb, b.
> >> >ps
> ><snip>
> >
> >wtf r u babbling about?
>
> I think that is "now go **** yourself with a broken coke bottle,
> bitch".

Yeah, I know; I wrote it. I snipped out all his babble about sig lines because
I never mentioned Steve's sig line. My objection was to the way he points
people to a book on his site, which is over priced, rather than to simply the
title of a book or to a site which sells it for far less. Apparently he has no
response to that.
ps

Pat Styles
March 14th 04, 10:24 PM
"John Hanson" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:29:30 -0800, "Pat Styles"
> > wrote in misc.fitness.weights:
>
> > wrote in message
> ...
> >> On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 08:48:08 -0800, "Pat Styles"
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> >> On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 18:11:03 -0800, "Pat Styles"
> >> >> > wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >"Steve Freides" > wrote in message
> >> >> ...
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> You really don't get it, do you? <sigh>.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >No, it is clearly you who don't get it. You've been told repeatedly by
> >> >numerous
> >> >> >people you're posts are inappropriately commercial.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> I pay no attention to the income
> >> >> >> from DragonDoor commissions regarding what I post here. If I think
> >someone
> >> >> >> might benefit from reading a book I've read, I'll give a link to the
> >book.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >No, you give a link to your site, from which you benefit financially,
and
> >in
> >> >> >which you have a commercial interest. Why not just give a title of a
> >book?
> >> >Why
> >> >> >not refer people to amazon or b&n as it has been repeatedly pointed out
> >the
> >> >> >books you recommend are substantially cheaper there?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> If it's "cyclical" it may just be, well, I don't know what it may
just
> >be.
> >> >> >> I haven't been reading the books themselves much lately. Honest, I
> >don't
> >> >> >> know.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Finally, something I believe. Steve doesn't know much.
> >> >> >ps
> >> >>
> >> >> Since we're into a deju vu all over again mode, let's revisit the MFW
> >> >> FAQ on advertising.
> >> >>
> >> >> Generally speaking, commercial advertisements are strongly
> >> >> discouraged.
> >> >
> >> >You have a keen grasp of the obvious.
> >>
> >> Thank you.
> >> >
> >> >> However, "the contents of a .signature appended to your
> >> >> articles on the group may contain whatever you wish to put there and
> >> >> that may include pointers to a commercial website or mention of your
> >> >> products or services--however, this exception is only applicable if
> >> >> you're actually posting an article that is otherwise appropriate for
> >> >> the group."
> >> >
> >> >Hm, maybe not so keen. Did I say anything about his sig? The objection
was
> >to
> >> >his pointing people to his site, in which he has a commercial and
financial
> >> >interest, when he could simply recommend a book or let them know the book
is
> >> >available at other sites than his for significantly less. ngfywabcb, b.
> >> >ps
> ><snip>
> >
> >wtf r u babbling about?
>
> I think that is "now go **** yourself with a broken coke bottle,
> bitch".

Yeah, I know; I wrote it. I snipped out all his babble about sig lines because
I never mentioned Steve's sig line. My objection was to the way he points
people to a book on his site, which is over priced, rather than to simply the
title of a book or to a site which sells it for far less. Apparently he has no
response to that.
ps

Helgi Briem
March 15th 04, 09:04 AM
On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 10:09:44 +0100, Steve >
wrote:

>Dally wrote:
>> Dally, considering the benefits of living as a man
>
>- you can pee standing up
>- you can pee in the woods, the roadside, anywhere you like
>- its okay to be a slob
>- consistent mental states througout the month

- Nobody cares if you wear the same clothes to every party.
- Or all the time, for that matter.
- You never have to look for an aqua underwired sports bra in
your size.
- You don't have to give your friends relationship tips.
- The size of your ass is not an issue when you apply for a job.
- You don't have to fake orgasms.
- No hot wax.

Helgi Briem
March 15th 04, 09:04 AM
On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 10:09:44 +0100, Steve >
wrote:

>Dally wrote:
>> Dally, considering the benefits of living as a man
>
>- you can pee standing up
>- you can pee in the woods, the roadside, anywhere you like
>- its okay to be a slob
>- consistent mental states througout the month

- Nobody cares if you wear the same clothes to every party.
- Or all the time, for that matter.
- You never have to look for an aqua underwired sports bra in
your size.
- You don't have to give your friends relationship tips.
- The size of your ass is not an issue when you apply for a job.
- You don't have to fake orgasms.
- No hot wax.

Helgi Briem
March 15th 04, 09:04 AM
On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 10:09:44 +0100, Steve >
wrote:

>Dally wrote:
>> Dally, considering the benefits of living as a man
>
>- you can pee standing up
>- you can pee in the woods, the roadside, anywhere you like
>- its okay to be a slob
>- consistent mental states througout the month

- Nobody cares if you wear the same clothes to every party.
- Or all the time, for that matter.
- You never have to look for an aqua underwired sports bra in
your size.
- You don't have to give your friends relationship tips.
- The size of your ass is not an issue when you apply for a job.
- You don't have to fake orgasms.
- No hot wax.

miranda
March 15th 04, 10:38 AM
Helgi Briem > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 10:09:44 +0100, Steve >
> wrote:
>
> >Dally wrote:
> >> Dally, considering the benefits of living as a man
> >
> >- you can pee standing up
> >- you can pee in the woods, the roadside, anywhere you like
> >- its okay to be a slob
> >- consistent mental states througout the month
>
> - Nobody cares if you wear the same clothes to every party.
> - Or all the time, for that matter.
> - You never have to look for an aqua underwired sports bra in
> your size.
> - You don't have to give your friends relationship tips.
> - The size of your ass is not an issue when you apply for a job.
> - You don't have to fake orgasms.

word!

> - No hot wax.

um...

wrong newsgroup.

i find a glass of wine dulls the pain.

whit

miranda
March 15th 04, 10:38 AM
Helgi Briem > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 10:09:44 +0100, Steve >
> wrote:
>
> >Dally wrote:
> >> Dally, considering the benefits of living as a man
> >
> >- you can pee standing up
> >- you can pee in the woods, the roadside, anywhere you like
> >- its okay to be a slob
> >- consistent mental states througout the month
>
> - Nobody cares if you wear the same clothes to every party.
> - Or all the time, for that matter.
> - You never have to look for an aqua underwired sports bra in
> your size.
> - You don't have to give your friends relationship tips.
> - The size of your ass is not an issue when you apply for a job.
> - You don't have to fake orgasms.

word!

> - No hot wax.

um...

wrong newsgroup.

i find a glass of wine dulls the pain.

whit

miranda
March 15th 04, 10:38 AM
Helgi Briem > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 10:09:44 +0100, Steve >
> wrote:
>
> >Dally wrote:
> >> Dally, considering the benefits of living as a man
> >
> >- you can pee standing up
> >- you can pee in the woods, the roadside, anywhere you like
> >- its okay to be a slob
> >- consistent mental states througout the month
>
> - Nobody cares if you wear the same clothes to every party.
> - Or all the time, for that matter.
> - You never have to look for an aqua underwired sports bra in
> your size.
> - You don't have to give your friends relationship tips.
> - The size of your ass is not an issue when you apply for a job.
> - You don't have to fake orgasms.

word!

> - No hot wax.

um...

wrong newsgroup.

i find a glass of wine dulls the pain.

whit

miranda
March 15th 04, 10:40 AM
Mistress Krista > wrote in message
.rogers.com...
>
> "Watson Davis" > wrote in message
> 2.205...
> > "Mistress Krista" > wrote in
> news:A_L4c.37360
> > :
> >
> > >
> > > "Dally" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > >>
> > >> Well, I don't use kettleballs, but I see absolutely nothing wrong
with
> > >> him having a sig line that makes it easier for me to find a product
> that
> > >> he says was helpful. Will has a site, Lyle has a site and the only
> > >> reason Krista isn't selling anything is because she's too socialist.
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > I don't waste time selling things because I'm slowly building an army
> for
> > > world domination.
> >
> > I think the operative word there is "slowly". I've been waiting for the
> > revolution for a freaking eternity by this point.
> >
>
>
> Contrary to popular belief, it is difficult to organize a feminist
> conspiracy. Everyone keeps bitching about how long the women's bathroom
> lineups are.
>
>
> Krista

do feminist revolutionaries "bitch"?

i am sure there is a more pc, gender empowering term than that.

how about 'cry like nancy kerrigan?'

nope, doesn't work either.

kvetch?

whit

>
> --
> http://www.stumptuous.com/weights.html
> http://www.trans-health.com
> mistresskrista at stumptuous dot com
>
>

miranda
March 15th 04, 10:40 AM
Mistress Krista > wrote in message
.rogers.com...
>
> "Watson Davis" > wrote in message
> 2.205...
> > "Mistress Krista" > wrote in
> news:A_L4c.37360
> > :
> >
> > >
> > > "Dally" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > >>
> > >> Well, I don't use kettleballs, but I see absolutely nothing wrong
with
> > >> him having a sig line that makes it easier for me to find a product
> that
> > >> he says was helpful. Will has a site, Lyle has a site and the only
> > >> reason Krista isn't selling anything is because she's too socialist.
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > I don't waste time selling things because I'm slowly building an army
> for
> > > world domination.
> >
> > I think the operative word there is "slowly". I've been waiting for the
> > revolution for a freaking eternity by this point.
> >
>
>
> Contrary to popular belief, it is difficult to organize a feminist
> conspiracy. Everyone keeps bitching about how long the women's bathroom
> lineups are.
>
>
> Krista

do feminist revolutionaries "bitch"?

i am sure there is a more pc, gender empowering term than that.

how about 'cry like nancy kerrigan?'

nope, doesn't work either.

kvetch?

whit

>
> --
> http://www.stumptuous.com/weights.html
> http://www.trans-health.com
> mistresskrista at stumptuous dot com
>
>

miranda
March 15th 04, 10:40 AM
Mistress Krista > wrote in message
.rogers.com...
>
> "Watson Davis" > wrote in message
> 2.205...
> > "Mistress Krista" > wrote in
> news:A_L4c.37360
> > :
> >
> > >
> > > "Dally" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > >>
> > >> Well, I don't use kettleballs, but I see absolutely nothing wrong
with
> > >> him having a sig line that makes it easier for me to find a product
> that
> > >> he says was helpful. Will has a site, Lyle has a site and the only
> > >> reason Krista isn't selling anything is because she's too socialist.
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > I don't waste time selling things because I'm slowly building an army
> for
> > > world domination.
> >
> > I think the operative word there is "slowly". I've been waiting for the
> > revolution for a freaking eternity by this point.
> >
>
>
> Contrary to popular belief, it is difficult to organize a feminist
> conspiracy. Everyone keeps bitching about how long the women's bathroom
> lineups are.
>
>
> Krista

do feminist revolutionaries "bitch"?

i am sure there is a more pc, gender empowering term than that.

how about 'cry like nancy kerrigan?'

nope, doesn't work either.

kvetch?

whit

>
> --
> http://www.stumptuous.com/weights.html
> http://www.trans-health.com
> mistresskrista at stumptuous dot com
>
>

Dally
March 15th 04, 11:41 PM
miranda wrote:
> Dally > wrote:
>
>>Mistress Krista wrote:
>>
>>>"Dally" > wrote:
>>
>>>>Will has a site, Lyle has a site and the only
>>>>reason Krista isn't selling anything is because she's too socialist.

>>>I don't waste time selling things because I'm slowly building an
>>>army for world domination.
>>
>>Can I be a minion? Pretty please?
>>
>>Dally
>
>
> a krista flankie. should have known
>
> whit

Who isn't? And I recommended googling Lyle once too often and somehow
turned into a Lyle-ette. Plus I say "****tard" now. This place warps me.

Dally

Dally
March 15th 04, 11:41 PM
miranda wrote:
> Dally > wrote:
>
>>Mistress Krista wrote:
>>
>>>"Dally" > wrote:
>>
>>>>Will has a site, Lyle has a site and the only
>>>>reason Krista isn't selling anything is because she's too socialist.

>>>I don't waste time selling things because I'm slowly building an
>>>army for world domination.
>>
>>Can I be a minion? Pretty please?
>>
>>Dally
>
>
> a krista flankie. should have known
>
> whit

Who isn't? And I recommended googling Lyle once too often and somehow
turned into a Lyle-ette. Plus I say "****tard" now. This place warps me.

Dally

Dally
March 15th 04, 11:41 PM
miranda wrote:
> Dally > wrote:
>
>>Mistress Krista wrote:
>>
>>>"Dally" > wrote:
>>
>>>>Will has a site, Lyle has a site and the only
>>>>reason Krista isn't selling anything is because she's too socialist.

>>>I don't waste time selling things because I'm slowly building an
>>>army for world domination.
>>
>>Can I be a minion? Pretty please?
>>
>>Dally
>
>
> a krista flankie. should have known
>
> whit

Who isn't? And I recommended googling Lyle once too often and somehow
turned into a Lyle-ette. Plus I say "****tard" now. This place warps me.

Dally

Proton Soup
March 16th 04, 12:03 AM
On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 18:41:18 -0500, Dally > wrote:

>miranda wrote:
>> Dally > wrote:
>>
>>>Mistress Krista wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Dally" > wrote:
>>>
>>>>>Will has a site, Lyle has a site and the only
>>>>>reason Krista isn't selling anything is because she's too socialist.
>
>>>>I don't waste time selling things because I'm slowly building an
>>>>army for world domination.
>>>
>>>Can I be a minion? Pretty please?
>>>
>>>Dally
>>
>>
>> a krista flankie. should have known
>>
>> whit
>
>Who isn't? And I recommended googling Lyle once too often and somehow
>turned into a Lyle-ette. Plus I say "****tard" now. This place warps me.

u r 0wn3d

Proton Soup

Proton Soup
March 16th 04, 12:03 AM
On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 18:41:18 -0500, Dally > wrote:

>miranda wrote:
>> Dally > wrote:
>>
>>>Mistress Krista wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Dally" > wrote:
>>>
>>>>>Will has a site, Lyle has a site and the only
>>>>>reason Krista isn't selling anything is because she's too socialist.
>
>>>>I don't waste time selling things because I'm slowly building an
>>>>army for world domination.
>>>
>>>Can I be a minion? Pretty please?
>>>
>>>Dally
>>
>>
>> a krista flankie. should have known
>>
>> whit
>
>Who isn't? And I recommended googling Lyle once too often and somehow
>turned into a Lyle-ette. Plus I say "****tard" now. This place warps me.

u r 0wn3d

Proton Soup

Proton Soup
March 16th 04, 12:03 AM
On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 18:41:18 -0500, Dally > wrote:

>miranda wrote:
>> Dally > wrote:
>>
>>>Mistress Krista wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Dally" > wrote:
>>>
>>>>>Will has a site, Lyle has a site and the only
>>>>>reason Krista isn't selling anything is because she's too socialist.
>
>>>>I don't waste time selling things because I'm slowly building an
>>>>army for world domination.
>>>
>>>Can I be a minion? Pretty please?
>>>
>>>Dally
>>
>>
>> a krista flankie. should have known
>>
>> whit
>
>Who isn't? And I recommended googling Lyle once too often and somehow
>turned into a Lyle-ette. Plus I say "****tard" now. This place warps me.

u r 0wn3d

Proton Soup

Lyle McDonald
March 16th 04, 12:12 AM
Proton Soup wrote:

> On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 18:41:18 -0500, Dally > wrote:
>
>
>>miranda wrote:
>>
>>>Dally > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Mistress Krista wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Dally" > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>Will has a site, Lyle has a site and the only
>>>>>>reason Krista isn't selling anything is because she's too socialist.
>>
>>>>>I don't waste time selling things because I'm slowly building an
>>>>>army for world domination.
>>>>
>>>>Can I be a minion? Pretty please?
>>>>
>>>>Dally
>>>
>>>
>>>a krista flankie. should have known
>>>
>>>whit
>>
>>Who isn't? And I recommended googling Lyle once too often and somehow
>>turned into a Lyle-ette. Plus I say "****tard" now. This place warps me.
>
>
> u r 0wn3d

All your Dally are belong to us?

Lyle
blech

Lyle McDonald
March 16th 04, 12:12 AM
Proton Soup wrote:

> On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 18:41:18 -0500, Dally > wrote:
>
>
>>miranda wrote:
>>
>>>Dally > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Mistress Krista wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Dally" > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>Will has a site, Lyle has a site and the only
>>>>>>reason Krista isn't selling anything is because she's too socialist.
>>
>>>>>I don't waste time selling things because I'm slowly building an
>>>>>army for world domination.
>>>>
>>>>Can I be a minion? Pretty please?
>>>>
>>>>Dally
>>>
>>>
>>>a krista flankie. should have known
>>>
>>>whit
>>
>>Who isn't? And I recommended googling Lyle once too often and somehow
>>turned into a Lyle-ette. Plus I say "****tard" now. This place warps me.
>
>
> u r 0wn3d

All your Dally are belong to us?

Lyle
blech

Lyle McDonald
March 16th 04, 12:12 AM
Proton Soup wrote:

> On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 18:41:18 -0500, Dally > wrote:
>
>
>>miranda wrote:
>>
>>>Dally > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Mistress Krista wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Dally" > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>Will has a site, Lyle has a site and the only
>>>>>>reason Krista isn't selling anything is because she's too socialist.
>>
>>>>>I don't waste time selling things because I'm slowly building an
>>>>>army for world domination.
>>>>
>>>>Can I be a minion? Pretty please?
>>>>
>>>>Dally
>>>
>>>
>>>a krista flankie. should have known
>>>
>>>whit
>>
>>Who isn't? And I recommended googling Lyle once too often and somehow
>>turned into a Lyle-ette. Plus I say "****tard" now. This place warps me.
>
>
> u r 0wn3d

All your Dally are belong to us?

Lyle
blech

Dally
March 16th 04, 01:53 AM
Lyle McDonald wrote:
> Proton Soup wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 18:41:18 -0500, Dally > wrote:
>>
>>> miranda wrote:
>>>
>>>> a krista flankie. should have known
>>>>
>>>> whit
>>>
>>>
>>> Who isn't? And I recommended googling Lyle once too often and
>>> somehow turned into a Lyle-ette. Plus I say "****tard" now. This
>>> place warps me.
>>
>> u r 0wn3d
>
> All your Dally are belong to us?
>
> Lyle
> blech

I always said you needed an editor. You mispelled "yay!"

Dally

Dally
March 16th 04, 01:53 AM
Lyle McDonald wrote:
> Proton Soup wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 18:41:18 -0500, Dally > wrote:
>>
>>> miranda wrote:
>>>
>>>> a krista flankie. should have known
>>>>
>>>> whit
>>>
>>>
>>> Who isn't? And I recommended googling Lyle once too often and
>>> somehow turned into a Lyle-ette. Plus I say "****tard" now. This
>>> place warps me.
>>
>> u r 0wn3d
>
> All your Dally are belong to us?
>
> Lyle
> blech

I always said you needed an editor. You mispelled "yay!"

Dally

Dally
March 16th 04, 01:53 AM
Lyle McDonald wrote:
> Proton Soup wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 18:41:18 -0500, Dally > wrote:
>>
>>> miranda wrote:
>>>
>>>> a krista flankie. should have known
>>>>
>>>> whit
>>>
>>>
>>> Who isn't? And I recommended googling Lyle once too often and
>>> somehow turned into a Lyle-ette. Plus I say "****tard" now. This
>>> place warps me.
>>
>> u r 0wn3d
>
> All your Dally are belong to us?
>
> Lyle
> blech

I always said you needed an editor. You mispelled "yay!"

Dally