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Buhda
June 4th 04, 09:50 PM
I am planning of starting a cycle of Biotest's Mag-10. The way I understand
it is that it is a 2 week on 2 week off cycle. I haven;t found anythign
that says what supplements (if any) to take on the off cycle. Anyone have
any recomendations or links to the info? I obviously don;t want to stop my
natural test. production so not sure if I should supplement the off cycle
with one of the diols or not. I am relatively new to supplementation (but
not lifting) other than protien/ephedra so I don't know all about the
biochemical pathways and regulation of them ( I do understand them when they
are presented in a clear concise manner but soooo many products sooo little
time). So if anyone could help I would appreciate it.

Also what do you all think of MAG -10 and 1-AD products ( IDS in
particular).


Thanks in advance

Kevin Kane
June 5th 04, 05:23 AM
Budha,

I took it once and gained a fair bit of muscle. Mind you, I was
taking triple the dose that was suggested on the bottle. The only
side effects that I had were blood in the feces & urines,
sleeplessness and looking really "puffy". My bench went up from 265
to 315 in 6 weeks. I would personally take a heavy dose of clomid or
if you believe Patrick Arnold, take his 6-oxo junk if you're on Mag 10
for a while. Personally, I think Sustanon is a much better
pharmaceutical but that's just me preference.


"Buhda" > wrote in message >...
> I am planning of starting a cycle of Biotest's Mag-10. The way I understand
> it is that it is a 2 week on 2 week off cycle. I haven;t found anythign
> that says what supplements (if any) to take on the off cycle. Anyone have
> any recomendations or links to the info? I obviously don;t want to stop my
> natural test. production so not sure if I should supplement the off cycle
> with one of the diols or not. I am relatively new to supplementation (but
> not lifting) other than protien/ephedra so I don't know all about the
> biochemical pathways and regulation of them ( I do understand them when they
> are presented in a clear concise manner but soooo many products sooo little
> time). So if anyone could help I would appreciate it.
>
> Also what do you all think of MAG -10 and 1-AD products ( IDS in
> particular).
>
>
> Thanks in advance

Kevin Kane
June 5th 04, 05:23 AM
Budha,

I took it once and gained a fair bit of muscle. Mind you, I was
taking triple the dose that was suggested on the bottle. The only
side effects that I had were blood in the feces & urines,
sleeplessness and looking really "puffy". My bench went up from 265
to 315 in 6 weeks. I would personally take a heavy dose of clomid or
if you believe Patrick Arnold, take his 6-oxo junk if you're on Mag 10
for a while. Personally, I think Sustanon is a much better
pharmaceutical but that's just me preference.


"Buhda" > wrote in message >...
> I am planning of starting a cycle of Biotest's Mag-10. The way I understand
> it is that it is a 2 week on 2 week off cycle. I haven;t found anythign
> that says what supplements (if any) to take on the off cycle. Anyone have
> any recomendations or links to the info? I obviously don;t want to stop my
> natural test. production so not sure if I should supplement the off cycle
> with one of the diols or not. I am relatively new to supplementation (but
> not lifting) other than protien/ephedra so I don't know all about the
> biochemical pathways and regulation of them ( I do understand them when they
> are presented in a clear concise manner but soooo many products sooo little
> time). So if anyone could help I would appreciate it.
>
> Also what do you all think of MAG -10 and 1-AD products ( IDS in
> particular).
>
>
> Thanks in advance

Buhda
June 5th 04, 02:48 PM
Clomid and Sustanon are illeagal though right? I have no idea where to find
them.



"Kevin Kane" > wrote in message
om...
> Budha,
>
> I took it once and gained a fair bit of muscle. Mind you, I was
> taking triple the dose that was suggested on the bottle. The only
> side effects that I had were blood in the feces & urines,
> sleeplessness and looking really "puffy". My bench went up from 265
> to 315 in 6 weeks. I would personally take a heavy dose of clomid or
> if you believe Patrick Arnold, take his 6-oxo junk if you're on Mag 10
> for a while. Personally, I think Sustanon is a much better
> pharmaceutical but that's just me preference.
>
>
> "Buhda" > wrote in message
>...
> > I am planning of starting a cycle of Biotest's Mag-10. The way I
understand
> > it is that it is a 2 week on 2 week off cycle. I haven;t found anythign
> > that says what supplements (if any) to take on the off cycle. Anyone
have
> > any recomendations or links to the info? I obviously don;t want to stop
my
> > natural test. production so not sure if I should supplement the off
cycle
> > with one of the diols or not. I am relatively new to supplementation
(but
> > not lifting) other than protien/ephedra so I don't know all about the
> > biochemical pathways and regulation of them ( I do understand them when
they
> > are presented in a clear concise manner but soooo many products sooo
little
> > time). So if anyone could help I would appreciate it.
> >
> > Also what do you all think of MAG -10 and 1-AD products ( IDS in
> > particular).
> >
> >
> > Thanks in advance

Buhda
June 5th 04, 02:48 PM
Clomid and Sustanon are illeagal though right? I have no idea where to find
them.



"Kevin Kane" > wrote in message
om...
> Budha,
>
> I took it once and gained a fair bit of muscle. Mind you, I was
> taking triple the dose that was suggested on the bottle. The only
> side effects that I had were blood in the feces & urines,
> sleeplessness and looking really "puffy". My bench went up from 265
> to 315 in 6 weeks. I would personally take a heavy dose of clomid or
> if you believe Patrick Arnold, take his 6-oxo junk if you're on Mag 10
> for a while. Personally, I think Sustanon is a much better
> pharmaceutical but that's just me preference.
>
>
> "Buhda" > wrote in message
>...
> > I am planning of starting a cycle of Biotest's Mag-10. The way I
understand
> > it is that it is a 2 week on 2 week off cycle. I haven;t found anythign
> > that says what supplements (if any) to take on the off cycle. Anyone
have
> > any recomendations or links to the info? I obviously don;t want to stop
my
> > natural test. production so not sure if I should supplement the off
cycle
> > with one of the diols or not. I am relatively new to supplementation
(but
> > not lifting) other than protien/ephedra so I don't know all about the
> > biochemical pathways and regulation of them ( I do understand them when
they
> > are presented in a clear concise manner but soooo many products sooo
little
> > time). So if anyone could help I would appreciate it.
> >
> > Also what do you all think of MAG -10 and 1-AD products ( IDS in
> > particular).
> >
> >
> > Thanks in advance

MJL
June 5th 04, 02:51 PM
On 4 Jun 2004 21:23:22 -0700, (Kevin Kane)
wrote:

>Budha,
>
>I took it once and gained a fair bit of muscle. Mind you, I was
>taking triple the dose that was suggested on the bottle. The only
>side effects that I had were blood in the feces & urines

Is that all?? Minor inconveniences.


--
"Hey, I ain't no Mike Massey."

MJL
June 5th 04, 02:51 PM
On 4 Jun 2004 21:23:22 -0700, (Kevin Kane)
wrote:

>Budha,
>
>I took it once and gained a fair bit of muscle. Mind you, I was
>taking triple the dose that was suggested on the bottle. The only
>side effects that I had were blood in the feces & urines

Is that all?? Minor inconveniences.


--
"Hey, I ain't no Mike Massey."

Kevin Kane
June 5th 04, 07:27 PM
MJL > wrote in message >...
> On 4 Jun 2004 21:23:22 -0700, (Kevin Kane)
> wrote:
>
> >Budha,
> >
> >I took it once and gained a fair bit of muscle. Mind you, I was
> >taking triple the dose that was suggested on the bottle. The only
> >side effects that I had were blood in the feces & urines
>
> Is that all?? Minor inconveniences.

MJ:

For a focused bodybuilder such as myself, my described side effects
are just that, a minor inconvenience. Besides, we have free health
care here in Canada so I can rip off OHIP as much as I want. I just
make up BS excuses and go in for a check-up now and again. For me,
it's all about the competition, my physique, my routines (front
double-bicep, etc), striations, etc. Minor pains /aches don't
concern me. If they did, I would probably look like Lyle McDonald
does. He is a so-called "expert" but he looks more like an Ethiopian
long distance runner than a true, focused, dedicated athlete like
myself (Sorry Lyle -- btw, your mother was good last night) aspiring
to achieve the likes of Ronnie Coleman, Wheeler, and Schwarzenegger.


Budha: I actually went down to Mexico for the previously mentioned
pharmaceutical and carried them back in my shaving cream container and
injected some while I was down there. Stupid customs people -- don't
worry about them. Sheesh.


Kevin

Kevin Kane
June 5th 04, 07:27 PM
MJL > wrote in message >...
> On 4 Jun 2004 21:23:22 -0700, (Kevin Kane)
> wrote:
>
> >Budha,
> >
> >I took it once and gained a fair bit of muscle. Mind you, I was
> >taking triple the dose that was suggested on the bottle. The only
> >side effects that I had were blood in the feces & urines
>
> Is that all?? Minor inconveniences.

MJ:

For a focused bodybuilder such as myself, my described side effects
are just that, a minor inconvenience. Besides, we have free health
care here in Canada so I can rip off OHIP as much as I want. I just
make up BS excuses and go in for a check-up now and again. For me,
it's all about the competition, my physique, my routines (front
double-bicep, etc), striations, etc. Minor pains /aches don't
concern me. If they did, I would probably look like Lyle McDonald
does. He is a so-called "expert" but he looks more like an Ethiopian
long distance runner than a true, focused, dedicated athlete like
myself (Sorry Lyle -- btw, your mother was good last night) aspiring
to achieve the likes of Ronnie Coleman, Wheeler, and Schwarzenegger.


Budha: I actually went down to Mexico for the previously mentioned
pharmaceutical and carried them back in my shaving cream container and
injected some while I was down there. Stupid customs people -- don't
worry about them. Sheesh.


Kevin

MJL
June 5th 04, 10:45 PM
On 5 Jun 2004 11:27:22 -0700, (Kevin Kane)
wrote:

>MJL > wrote in message >...
>> On 4 Jun 2004 21:23:22 -0700, (Kevin Kane)
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Budha,
>> >
>> >I took it once and gained a fair bit of muscle. Mind you, I was
>> >taking triple the dose that was suggested on the bottle. The only
>> >side effects that I had were blood in the feces & urines
>>
>> Is that all?? Minor inconveniences.
>
>MJ:
>
>For a focused bodybuilder such as myself, my described side effects
>are just that, a minor inconvenience. Besides, we have free health
>care here in Canada so I can rip off OHIP as much as I want. I just
>make up BS excuses and go in for a check-up now and again. For me,
>it's all about the competition, my physique, my routines (front
>double-bicep, etc), striations, etc. Minor pains /aches don't
>concern me. If they did, I would probably look like Lyle McDonald
>does. He is a so-called "expert" but he looks more like an Ethiopian
>long distance runner than a true, focused, dedicated athlete like
>myself (Sorry Lyle -- btw, your mother was good last night) aspiring
>to achieve the likes of Ronnie Coleman, Wheeler, and Schwarzenegger.

As much as I enjoy a broadside against Lyle, for this one to have any
credibility you're going to have to post a few pics.


--
"Hey, I ain't no Mike Massey."

MJL
June 5th 04, 10:45 PM
On 5 Jun 2004 11:27:22 -0700, (Kevin Kane)
wrote:

>MJL > wrote in message >...
>> On 4 Jun 2004 21:23:22 -0700, (Kevin Kane)
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Budha,
>> >
>> >I took it once and gained a fair bit of muscle. Mind you, I was
>> >taking triple the dose that was suggested on the bottle. The only
>> >side effects that I had were blood in the feces & urines
>>
>> Is that all?? Minor inconveniences.
>
>MJ:
>
>For a focused bodybuilder such as myself, my described side effects
>are just that, a minor inconvenience. Besides, we have free health
>care here in Canada so I can rip off OHIP as much as I want. I just
>make up BS excuses and go in for a check-up now and again. For me,
>it's all about the competition, my physique, my routines (front
>double-bicep, etc), striations, etc. Minor pains /aches don't
>concern me. If they did, I would probably look like Lyle McDonald
>does. He is a so-called "expert" but he looks more like an Ethiopian
>long distance runner than a true, focused, dedicated athlete like
>myself (Sorry Lyle -- btw, your mother was good last night) aspiring
>to achieve the likes of Ronnie Coleman, Wheeler, and Schwarzenegger.

As much as I enjoy a broadside against Lyle, for this one to have any
credibility you're going to have to post a few pics.


--
"Hey, I ain't no Mike Massey."

Kevin Kane
June 9th 04, 02:57 AM
>
> As much as I enjoy a broadside against Lyle, for this one to have any
> credibility you're going to have to post a few pics.


MJL,

Beyond the evolution of a TRUE physique champion.

http://www.arts.uwaterloo.ca/~kkane/bb_phys_evol.html

This masterpiece has been years in the making. Stardom. I can't wait.


Kevin

Kevin Kane
June 9th 04, 02:57 AM
>
> As much as I enjoy a broadside against Lyle, for this one to have any
> credibility you're going to have to post a few pics.


MJL,

Beyond the evolution of a TRUE physique champion.

http://www.arts.uwaterloo.ca/~kkane/bb_phys_evol.html

This masterpiece has been years in the making. Stardom. I can't wait.


Kevin

Kevin Kane
June 9th 04, 02:57 AM
>
> As much as I enjoy a broadside against Lyle, for this one to have any
> credibility you're going to have to post a few pics.


MJL,

Beyond the evolution of a TRUE physique champion.

http://www.arts.uwaterloo.ca/~kkane/bb_phys_evol.html

This masterpiece has been years in the making. Stardom. I can't wait.


Kevin

MJL
June 10th 04, 03:00 AM
On 8 Jun 2004 18:57:27 -0700, (Kevin Kane)
wrote:

>>
>> As much as I enjoy a broadside against Lyle, for this one to have any
>> credibility you're going to have to post a few pics.
>
>
>MJL,
>
>Beyond the evolution of a TRUE physique champion.
>
>http://www.arts.uwaterloo.ca/~kkane/bb_phys_evol.html
>
>This masterpiece has been years in the making. Stardom. I can't wait.
>
>
>Kevin

You have Robert Schuh level potential. According to Bert you should
be very proud.


--
"Hey, I ain't no Mike Massey."

MJL
June 10th 04, 03:00 AM
On 8 Jun 2004 18:57:27 -0700, (Kevin Kane)
wrote:

>>
>> As much as I enjoy a broadside against Lyle, for this one to have any
>> credibility you're going to have to post a few pics.
>
>
>MJL,
>
>Beyond the evolution of a TRUE physique champion.
>
>http://www.arts.uwaterloo.ca/~kkane/bb_phys_evol.html
>
>This masterpiece has been years in the making. Stardom. I can't wait.
>
>
>Kevin

You have Robert Schuh level potential. According to Bert you should
be very proud.


--
"Hey, I ain't no Mike Massey."

MJL
June 10th 04, 03:00 AM
On 8 Jun 2004 18:57:27 -0700, (Kevin Kane)
wrote:

>>
>> As much as I enjoy a broadside against Lyle, for this one to have any
>> credibility you're going to have to post a few pics.
>
>
>MJL,
>
>Beyond the evolution of a TRUE physique champion.
>
>http://www.arts.uwaterloo.ca/~kkane/bb_phys_evol.html
>
>This masterpiece has been years in the making. Stardom. I can't wait.
>
>
>Kevin

You have Robert Schuh level potential. According to Bert you should
be very proud.


--
"Hey, I ain't no Mike Massey."

Lampi
June 10th 04, 05:06 AM
Kevin Kane wrote:
>>As much as I enjoy a broadside against Lyle, for this one to have any
>>credibility you're going to have to post a few pics.
>
>
>
> MJL,
>
> Beyond the evolution of a TRUE physique champion.
>
> http://www.arts.uwaterloo.ca/~kkane/bb_phys_evol.html
>
> This masterpiece has been years in the making. Stardom. I can't wait.
>
>
> Kevin

Kevin,

Where do you train in Waterloo? I'm doing my PhD in Biology there.

Mark

Lampi
June 10th 04, 05:06 AM
Kevin Kane wrote:
>>As much as I enjoy a broadside against Lyle, for this one to have any
>>credibility you're going to have to post a few pics.
>
>
>
> MJL,
>
> Beyond the evolution of a TRUE physique champion.
>
> http://www.arts.uwaterloo.ca/~kkane/bb_phys_evol.html
>
> This masterpiece has been years in the making. Stardom. I can't wait.
>
>
> Kevin

Kevin,

Where do you train in Waterloo? I'm doing my PhD in Biology there.

Mark

Lampi
June 10th 04, 05:06 AM
Kevin Kane wrote:
>>As much as I enjoy a broadside against Lyle, for this one to have any
>>credibility you're going to have to post a few pics.
>
>
>
> MJL,
>
> Beyond the evolution of a TRUE physique champion.
>
> http://www.arts.uwaterloo.ca/~kkane/bb_phys_evol.html
>
> This masterpiece has been years in the making. Stardom. I can't wait.
>
>
> Kevin

Kevin,

Where do you train in Waterloo? I'm doing my PhD in Biology there.

Mark

Kevin Kane
June 10th 04, 07:07 AM
MJL > wrote in message >...
> On 8 Jun 2004 18:57:27 -0700, (Kevin Kane)
> wrote:
>
> >>
> >> As much as I enjoy a broadside against Lyle, for this one to have any
> >> credibility you're going to have to post a few pics.
> >
> >
> >MJL,
> >
> >Beyond the evolution of a TRUE physique champion.
> >
> >http://www.arts.uwaterloo.ca/~kkane/bb_phys_evol.html
> >
> >This masterpiece has been years in the making. Stardom. I can't wait.
> >
> >
> >Kevin
>
> You have Robert Schuh level potential. According to Bert you should
> be very proud.

Who the heck is Robert Schuh ? Your boyfriend ? or a PRO bodybuilder.. ?

Kevin Kane
June 10th 04, 07:07 AM
MJL > wrote in message >...
> On 8 Jun 2004 18:57:27 -0700, (Kevin Kane)
> wrote:
>
> >>
> >> As much as I enjoy a broadside against Lyle, for this one to have any
> >> credibility you're going to have to post a few pics.
> >
> >
> >MJL,
> >
> >Beyond the evolution of a TRUE physique champion.
> >
> >http://www.arts.uwaterloo.ca/~kkane/bb_phys_evol.html
> >
> >This masterpiece has been years in the making. Stardom. I can't wait.
> >
> >
> >Kevin
>
> You have Robert Schuh level potential. According to Bert you should
> be very proud.

Who the heck is Robert Schuh ? Your boyfriend ? or a PRO bodybuilder.. ?

Pete
June 12th 04, 06:27 AM
Kevin Kane wrote:
>> As much as I enjoy a broadside against Lyle, for this one to have any
>> credibility you're going to have to post a few pics.
>
>
> MJL,
>
> Beyond the evolution of a TRUE physique champion.
>
> http://www.arts.uwaterloo.ca/~kkane/bb_phys_evol.html
>
> This masterpiece has been years in the making. Stardom. I can't
> wait.
>
>
> Kevin

Dude, you're delusional.


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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Pete
June 12th 04, 06:27 AM
Kevin Kane wrote:
>> As much as I enjoy a broadside against Lyle, for this one to have any
>> credibility you're going to have to post a few pics.
>
>
> MJL,
>
> Beyond the evolution of a TRUE physique champion.
>
> http://www.arts.uwaterloo.ca/~kkane/bb_phys_evol.html
>
> This masterpiece has been years in the making. Stardom. I can't
> wait.
>
>
> Kevin

Dude, you're delusional.


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.699 / Virus Database: 456 - Release Date: 6/5/2004

John M. Williams
June 12th 04, 06:47 AM
"Pete" > wrote:
>Kevin Kane wrote:
>>> As much as I enjoy a broadside against Lyle, for this one to have any
>>> credibility you're going to have to post a few pics.
>>
>> MJL,
>>
>> Beyond the evolution of a TRUE physique champion.
>>
>> http://www.arts.uwaterloo.ca/~kkane/bb_phys_evol.html
>>
>> This masterpiece has been years in the making. Stardom. I can't
>> wait.
>
>Dude, you're delusional.

The new Adam Ramsey.

John M. Williams
June 12th 04, 06:47 AM
"Pete" > wrote:
>Kevin Kane wrote:
>>> As much as I enjoy a broadside against Lyle, for this one to have any
>>> credibility you're going to have to post a few pics.
>>
>> MJL,
>>
>> Beyond the evolution of a TRUE physique champion.
>>
>> http://www.arts.uwaterloo.ca/~kkane/bb_phys_evol.html
>>
>> This masterpiece has been years in the making. Stardom. I can't
>> wait.
>
>Dude, you're delusional.

The new Adam Ramsey.

Kevin Kane
June 12th 04, 11:47 PM
John, Pete:

First of all, you two are jealous that you don't have a physique like
mine.
It's taken years of training to get, so I can understand why you two
don't have a beach bod like mine due to your previous posts.

Pete:

Honestly, who's delusional ? Let's see some pic's of you in/out of
competition ...doing the most muscular or the front double biceps
pose. Sheesh. At least I have a website. True champions like me
always have to take flak from the wanna-be bodybuilders like yourself.

John:

Who the heck is Adam Ramsey ???? I bet he doesn't bech 205 x 25 or
squat 500x10 !!!!


> >> This masterpiece has been years in the making. Stardom. I can't
> >> wait.
> >
> >Dude, you're delusional.
>
> The new Adam Ramsey.

Kevin Kane
June 12th 04, 11:47 PM
John, Pete:

First of all, you two are jealous that you don't have a physique like
mine.
It's taken years of training to get, so I can understand why you two
don't have a beach bod like mine due to your previous posts.

Pete:

Honestly, who's delusional ? Let's see some pic's of you in/out of
competition ...doing the most muscular or the front double biceps
pose. Sheesh. At least I have a website. True champions like me
always have to take flak from the wanna-be bodybuilders like yourself.

John:

Who the heck is Adam Ramsey ???? I bet he doesn't bech 205 x 25 or
squat 500x10 !!!!


> >> This masterpiece has been years in the making. Stardom. I can't
> >> wait.
> >
> >Dude, you're delusional.
>
> The new Adam Ramsey.

David Cohen
June 13th 04, 12:06 AM
"John M. Williams" > wrote
> "Pete" > wrote:
> >Kevin Kane wrote:
> >>> As much as I enjoy a broadside against Lyle, for this one to
have any
> >>> credibility you're going to have to post a few pics.
> >>
> >> Beyond the evolution of a TRUE physique champion.
> >>
> >> http://www.arts.uwaterloo.ca/~kkane/bb_phys_evol.html
> >>
> >> This masterpiece has been years in the making. Stardom. I can't
> >> wait.
> >
> >Dude, you're delusional.
>
> The new Adam Ramsey.

I disagree. Adam looked like he ATE the Delusional One.

What is really sad is that the Delusional One is clearly never going
to be a successful amateur bodybuilder, except at the local level. But
I bet all his friends and family keep encouraging him, feeding the
delusion. It's like those horrid singers on American Idol. You just
know they're being encouraged by well-meaning, ignorant, friends and
family.

The Delusional One needs a Simon Cowell-type person to tell him the
truth. He'll never believe us.

David
--
"This is the worse forum alive."- kev2112

David Cohen
June 13th 04, 12:06 AM
"John M. Williams" > wrote
> "Pete" > wrote:
> >Kevin Kane wrote:
> >>> As much as I enjoy a broadside against Lyle, for this one to
have any
> >>> credibility you're going to have to post a few pics.
> >>
> >> Beyond the evolution of a TRUE physique champion.
> >>
> >> http://www.arts.uwaterloo.ca/~kkane/bb_phys_evol.html
> >>
> >> This masterpiece has been years in the making. Stardom. I can't
> >> wait.
> >
> >Dude, you're delusional.
>
> The new Adam Ramsey.

I disagree. Adam looked like he ATE the Delusional One.

What is really sad is that the Delusional One is clearly never going
to be a successful amateur bodybuilder, except at the local level. But
I bet all his friends and family keep encouraging him, feeding the
delusion. It's like those horrid singers on American Idol. You just
know they're being encouraged by well-meaning, ignorant, friends and
family.

The Delusional One needs a Simon Cowell-type person to tell him the
truth. He'll never believe us.

David
--
"This is the worse forum alive."- kev2112

David Cohen
June 13th 04, 12:18 AM
"MJL" > wrote
> (Kevin Kane) wrote:
> >> As much as I enjoy a broadside against Lyle, for this one to have
any
> >> credibility you're going to have to post a few pics.

> >MJL,
> >
> >Beyond the evolution of a TRUE physique champion.
> >
> >http://www.arts.uwaterloo.ca/~kkane/bb_phys_evol.html
> >
> >This masterpiece has been years in the making. Stardom. I can't
wait.
>
> You have Robert Schuh level potential. According to Bert you should
> be very proud.

I was about to disagree with you, knowing your opinion of Rob, but
then I noticed the "potential" part. Sure, he's young enough to reach
Rob's level. But we both know what that will require. While I have
absolutely no problems with people using occasional AAS cycles to
increase muscle mass, what is required to get from this skinny little
guy's "potential" to Rob at his best, I discourage anyone from doing.

What's sad is that he's going to keep trying and trying, when he could
be doing something(s) much more interesting and useful with his life.

David

David Cohen
June 13th 04, 12:18 AM
"MJL" > wrote
> (Kevin Kane) wrote:
> >> As much as I enjoy a broadside against Lyle, for this one to have
any
> >> credibility you're going to have to post a few pics.

> >MJL,
> >
> >Beyond the evolution of a TRUE physique champion.
> >
> >http://www.arts.uwaterloo.ca/~kkane/bb_phys_evol.html
> >
> >This masterpiece has been years in the making. Stardom. I can't
wait.
>
> You have Robert Schuh level potential. According to Bert you should
> be very proud.

I was about to disagree with you, knowing your opinion of Rob, but
then I noticed the "potential" part. Sure, he's young enough to reach
Rob's level. But we both know what that will require. While I have
absolutely no problems with people using occasional AAS cycles to
increase muscle mass, what is required to get from this skinny little
guy's "potential" to Rob at his best, I discourage anyone from doing.

What's sad is that he's going to keep trying and trying, when he could
be doing something(s) much more interesting and useful with his life.

David

Pete
June 13th 04, 12:35 AM
"Kevin Kane" > wrote in message
om...

> > >> This masterpiece has been years in the making. Stardom. I can't
> > >> wait.

Get used to waiting.


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.699 / Virus Database: 456 - Release Date: 6/4/2004

Pete
June 13th 04, 12:35 AM
"Kevin Kane" > wrote in message
om...

> > >> This masterpiece has been years in the making. Stardom. I can't
> > >> wait.

Get used to waiting.


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.699 / Virus Database: 456 - Release Date: 6/4/2004

John M. Williams
June 13th 04, 12:44 AM
(Kevin Kane) wrote:
>
>John:
>
>Who the heck is Adam Ramsey ???? I bet he doesn't bech 205 x 25

Why would anyone?

John M. Williams
June 13th 04, 12:44 AM
(Kevin Kane) wrote:
>
>John:
>
>Who the heck is Adam Ramsey ???? I bet he doesn't bech 205 x 25

Why would anyone?

MJL
June 13th 04, 03:55 AM
On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 23:18:10 GMT, "David Cohen"
> wrote:

>
>"MJL" > wrote
>> (Kevin Kane) wrote:
>> >> As much as I enjoy a broadside against Lyle, for this one to have
>any
>> >> credibility you're going to have to post a few pics.
>
>> >MJL,
>> >
>> >Beyond the evolution of a TRUE physique champion.
>> >
>> >http://www.arts.uwaterloo.ca/~kkane/bb_phys_evol.html
>> >
>> >This masterpiece has been years in the making. Stardom. I can't
>wait.
>>
>> You have Robert Schuh level potential. According to Bert you should
>> be very proud.
>
>I was about to disagree with you, knowing your opinion of Rob, but
>then I noticed the "potential" part. Sure, he's young enough to reach
>Rob's level. But we both know what that will require. While I have
>absolutely no problems with people using occasional AAS cycles to
>increase muscle mass, what is required to get from this skinny little
>guy's "potential" to Rob at his best, I discourage anyone from doing.
>
>What's sad is that he's going to keep trying and trying, when he could
>be doing something(s) much more interesting and useful with his life.
>
>David
>

Thank you for expanding on what I actually meant. I was too lazy to
type all that.


--
"Hey, I ain't no Mike Massey."

MJL
June 13th 04, 03:55 AM
On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 23:18:10 GMT, "David Cohen"
> wrote:

>
>"MJL" > wrote
>> (Kevin Kane) wrote:
>> >> As much as I enjoy a broadside against Lyle, for this one to have
>any
>> >> credibility you're going to have to post a few pics.
>
>> >MJL,
>> >
>> >Beyond the evolution of a TRUE physique champion.
>> >
>> >http://www.arts.uwaterloo.ca/~kkane/bb_phys_evol.html
>> >
>> >This masterpiece has been years in the making. Stardom. I can't
>wait.
>>
>> You have Robert Schuh level potential. According to Bert you should
>> be very proud.
>
>I was about to disagree with you, knowing your opinion of Rob, but
>then I noticed the "potential" part. Sure, he's young enough to reach
>Rob's level. But we both know what that will require. While I have
>absolutely no problems with people using occasional AAS cycles to
>increase muscle mass, what is required to get from this skinny little
>guy's "potential" to Rob at his best, I discourage anyone from doing.
>
>What's sad is that he's going to keep trying and trying, when he could
>be doing something(s) much more interesting and useful with his life.
>
>David
>

Thank you for expanding on what I actually meant. I was too lazy to
type all that.


--
"Hey, I ain't no Mike Massey."

David Cohen
June 13th 04, 04:17 AM
"MJL" > wrote
> "David Cohen" > wrote:
> >"MJL" > wrote
> >> (Kevin Kane) wrote:
> >> >> As much as I enjoy a broadside against Lyle, for this one to
have
> >any
> >> >> credibility you're going to have to post a few pics.
> >
> >> >MJL,
> >> >
> >> >Beyond the evolution of a TRUE physique champion.
> >> >
> >> >http://www.arts.uwaterloo.ca/~kkane/bb_phys_evol.html
> >> >
> >> >This masterpiece has been years in the making. Stardom. I
can't
> >wait.
> >>
> >> You have Robert Schuh level potential. According to Bert you
should
> >> be very proud.
> >
> >I was about to disagree with you, knowing your opinion of Rob, but
> >then I noticed the "potential" part. Sure, he's young enough to
reach
> >Rob's level. But we both know what that will require. While I have
> >absolutely no problems with people using occasional AAS cycles to
> >increase muscle mass, what is required to get from this skinny
little
> >guy's "potential" to Rob at his best, I discourage anyone from
doing.
> >
> >What's sad is that he's going to keep trying and trying, when he
could
> >be doing something(s) much more interesting and useful with his
life.
>
> Thank you for expanding on what I actually meant. I was too lazy to
> type all that.

I never pay attention to what you write, Mike, only what you mean.
Saves time :)

David

David Cohen
June 13th 04, 04:17 AM
"MJL" > wrote
> "David Cohen" > wrote:
> >"MJL" > wrote
> >> (Kevin Kane) wrote:
> >> >> As much as I enjoy a broadside against Lyle, for this one to
have
> >any
> >> >> credibility you're going to have to post a few pics.
> >
> >> >MJL,
> >> >
> >> >Beyond the evolution of a TRUE physique champion.
> >> >
> >> >http://www.arts.uwaterloo.ca/~kkane/bb_phys_evol.html
> >> >
> >> >This masterpiece has been years in the making. Stardom. I
can't
> >wait.
> >>
> >> You have Robert Schuh level potential. According to Bert you
should
> >> be very proud.
> >
> >I was about to disagree with you, knowing your opinion of Rob, but
> >then I noticed the "potential" part. Sure, he's young enough to
reach
> >Rob's level. But we both know what that will require. While I have
> >absolutely no problems with people using occasional AAS cycles to
> >increase muscle mass, what is required to get from this skinny
little
> >guy's "potential" to Rob at his best, I discourage anyone from
doing.
> >
> >What's sad is that he's going to keep trying and trying, when he
could
> >be doing something(s) much more interesting and useful with his
life.
>
> Thank you for expanding on what I actually meant. I was too lazy to
> type all that.

I never pay attention to what you write, Mike, only what you mean.
Saves time :)

David

MJL
June 13th 04, 03:19 PM
On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 03:17:54 GMT, "David Cohen"
> wrote:

>
>"MJL" > wrote
>> "David Cohen" > wrote:
>> >"MJL" > wrote
>> >> (Kevin Kane) wrote:
>> >> >> As much as I enjoy a broadside against Lyle, for this one to
>have
>> >any
>> >> >> credibility you're going to have to post a few pics.
>> >
>> >> >MJL,
>> >> >
>> >> >Beyond the evolution of a TRUE physique champion.
>> >> >
>> >> >http://www.arts.uwaterloo.ca/~kkane/bb_phys_evol.html
>> >> >
>> >> >This masterpiece has been years in the making. Stardom. I
>can't
>> >wait.
>> >>
>> >> You have Robert Schuh level potential. According to Bert you
>should
>> >> be very proud.
>> >
>> >I was about to disagree with you, knowing your opinion of Rob, but
>> >then I noticed the "potential" part. Sure, he's young enough to
>reach
>> >Rob's level. But we both know what that will require. While I have
>> >absolutely no problems with people using occasional AAS cycles to
>> >increase muscle mass, what is required to get from this skinny
>little
>> >guy's "potential" to Rob at his best, I discourage anyone from
>doing.
>> >
>> >What's sad is that he's going to keep trying and trying, when he
>could
>> >be doing something(s) much more interesting and useful with his
>life.
>>
>> Thank you for expanding on what I actually meant. I was too lazy to
>> type all that.
>
>I never pay attention to what you write, Mike, only what you mean.
>Saves time :)
>
>David
>

Someone FINALLY gets it. Bless you.


--
"Hey, I ain't no Mike Massey."

MJL
June 13th 04, 03:19 PM
On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 03:17:54 GMT, "David Cohen"
> wrote:

>
>"MJL" > wrote
>> "David Cohen" > wrote:
>> >"MJL" > wrote
>> >> (Kevin Kane) wrote:
>> >> >> As much as I enjoy a broadside against Lyle, for this one to
>have
>> >any
>> >> >> credibility you're going to have to post a few pics.
>> >
>> >> >MJL,
>> >> >
>> >> >Beyond the evolution of a TRUE physique champion.
>> >> >
>> >> >http://www.arts.uwaterloo.ca/~kkane/bb_phys_evol.html
>> >> >
>> >> >This masterpiece has been years in the making. Stardom. I
>can't
>> >wait.
>> >>
>> >> You have Robert Schuh level potential. According to Bert you
>should
>> >> be very proud.
>> >
>> >I was about to disagree with you, knowing your opinion of Rob, but
>> >then I noticed the "potential" part. Sure, he's young enough to
>reach
>> >Rob's level. But we both know what that will require. While I have
>> >absolutely no problems with people using occasional AAS cycles to
>> >increase muscle mass, what is required to get from this skinny
>little
>> >guy's "potential" to Rob at his best, I discourage anyone from
>doing.
>> >
>> >What's sad is that he's going to keep trying and trying, when he
>could
>> >be doing something(s) much more interesting and useful with his
>life.
>>
>> Thank you for expanding on what I actually meant. I was too lazy to
>> type all that.
>
>I never pay attention to what you write, Mike, only what you mean.
>Saves time :)
>
>David
>

Someone FINALLY gets it. Bless you.


--
"Hey, I ain't no Mike Massey."

Kevin Kane
June 13th 04, 05:52 PM
Guys,

I appreciate the cynicism. However, you don't have to be jealous.
Results like MINE are possible if you remain a focused, dedicated
athlete like myself. Currently, I am writing my biography and would
be happy to share it with you guys once it's done to serve as an
insipirational reminder of the power of positive thought. When I am
having a podium finish at the 2006 Mr. Olympia, who will be laughing ?
Heh heh heh

I can't wait. I am willing to sign autographs for those who are
interested. Also, for interested fans, I have my own mailing list to
keep you all up to date on my wordly adventures, physique evolution
and general butt kicking activities.

P.S. Thanks for all the fan mail. For those who don't have Internet,
please mail to the address in Contact info with a self addressed stamp
and I'll be sure to get back to you when my gruelling schedule permits
me a modicum of free time.


Kevin
--










>
>
> > >> This masterpiece has been years in the making. Stardom. I can't
> > >> wait.
> > >
> > >Dude, you're delusional.
> >
> > The new Adam Ramsey.

Kevin Kane
June 13th 04, 05:52 PM
Guys,

I appreciate the cynicism. However, you don't have to be jealous.
Results like MINE are possible if you remain a focused, dedicated
athlete like myself. Currently, I am writing my biography and would
be happy to share it with you guys once it's done to serve as an
insipirational reminder of the power of positive thought. When I am
having a podium finish at the 2006 Mr. Olympia, who will be laughing ?
Heh heh heh

I can't wait. I am willing to sign autographs for those who are
interested. Also, for interested fans, I have my own mailing list to
keep you all up to date on my wordly adventures, physique evolution
and general butt kicking activities.

P.S. Thanks for all the fan mail. For those who don't have Internet,
please mail to the address in Contact info with a self addressed stamp
and I'll be sure to get back to you when my gruelling schedule permits
me a modicum of free time.


Kevin
--










>
>
> > >> This masterpiece has been years in the making. Stardom. I can't
> > >> wait.
> > >
> > >Dude, you're delusional.
> >
> > The new Adam Ramsey.

elzinator
June 13th 04, 06:11 PM
On 13 Jun 2004 09:52:45 -0700, Kevin Kane wrote:
>Guys,
>
>I appreciate the cynicism. However, you don't have to be jealous.
>Results like MINE are possible if you remain a focused, dedicated
>athlete like myself. Currently, I am writing my biography and would
>be happy to share it with you guys once it's done to serve as an
>insipirational reminder of the power of positive thought. When I am
>having a podium finish at the 2006 Mr. Olympia, who will be laughing ?
>Heh heh heh
>
>I can't wait. I am willing to sign autographs for those who are
>interested. Also, for interested fans, I have my own mailing list to
>keep you all up to date on my wordly adventures, physique evolution
>and general butt kicking activities.
>
>P.S. Thanks for all the fan mail. For those who don't have Internet,
>please mail to the address in Contact info with a self addressed stamp
>and I'll be sure to get back to you when my gruelling schedule permits
>me a modicum of free time.
>
>
>Kevin

This guy has to be a Troll.

"I am the monster." - Riddick

elzinator
June 13th 04, 06:11 PM
On 13 Jun 2004 09:52:45 -0700, Kevin Kane wrote:
>Guys,
>
>I appreciate the cynicism. However, you don't have to be jealous.
>Results like MINE are possible if you remain a focused, dedicated
>athlete like myself. Currently, I am writing my biography and would
>be happy to share it with you guys once it's done to serve as an
>insipirational reminder of the power of positive thought. When I am
>having a podium finish at the 2006 Mr. Olympia, who will be laughing ?
>Heh heh heh
>
>I can't wait. I am willing to sign autographs for those who are
>interested. Also, for interested fans, I have my own mailing list to
>keep you all up to date on my wordly adventures, physique evolution
>and general butt kicking activities.
>
>P.S. Thanks for all the fan mail. For those who don't have Internet,
>please mail to the address in Contact info with a self addressed stamp
>and I'll be sure to get back to you when my gruelling schedule permits
>me a modicum of free time.
>
>
>Kevin

This guy has to be a Troll.

"I am the monster." - Riddick

David Cohen
June 13th 04, 06:50 PM
"elzinator" > wrote
> Kevin Kane wrote:
> >Guys,
> >
> >I appreciate the cynicism. However, you don't have to be jealous.
> >Results like MINE are possible if you remain a focused, dedicated
> >athlete like myself. Currently, I am writing my biography and
would
> >be happy to share it with you guys once it's done to serve as an
> >insipirational reminder of the power of positive thought. When I
am
> >having a podium finish at the 2006 Mr. Olympia, who will be
laughing ?
> >Heh heh heh
> >
> >I can't wait. I am willing to sign autographs for those who are
> >interested. Also, for interested fans, I have my own mailing list
to
> >keep you all up to date on my wordly adventures, physique evolution
> >and general butt kicking activities.
> >
> >P.S. Thanks for all the fan mail. For those who don't have
Internet,
> >please mail to the address in Contact info with a self addressed
stamp
> >and I'll be sure to get back to you when my gruelling schedule
permits
> >me a modicum of free time.

> This guy has to be a Troll.

Let's hope so.

Pretty elaborate trolling. Web page with pics of a little skinny guy.

I like the "For those who don't have Internet"...that was pretty
funny.

David

David Cohen
June 13th 04, 06:50 PM
"elzinator" > wrote
> Kevin Kane wrote:
> >Guys,
> >
> >I appreciate the cynicism. However, you don't have to be jealous.
> >Results like MINE are possible if you remain a focused, dedicated
> >athlete like myself. Currently, I am writing my biography and
would
> >be happy to share it with you guys once it's done to serve as an
> >insipirational reminder of the power of positive thought. When I
am
> >having a podium finish at the 2006 Mr. Olympia, who will be
laughing ?
> >Heh heh heh
> >
> >I can't wait. I am willing to sign autographs for those who are
> >interested. Also, for interested fans, I have my own mailing list
to
> >keep you all up to date on my wordly adventures, physique evolution
> >and general butt kicking activities.
> >
> >P.S. Thanks for all the fan mail. For those who don't have
Internet,
> >please mail to the address in Contact info with a self addressed
stamp
> >and I'll be sure to get back to you when my gruelling schedule
permits
> >me a modicum of free time.

> This guy has to be a Troll.

Let's hope so.

Pretty elaborate trolling. Web page with pics of a little skinny guy.

I like the "For those who don't have Internet"...that was pretty
funny.

David

John M. Williams
June 13th 04, 08:41 PM
(Kevin Kane) wrote:

>Guys,
>
>I appreciate the cynicism. However, you don't have to be jealous.
>Results like MINE are possible if you remain a focused, dedicated
>athlete like myself. Currently, I am writing my biography and would
>be happy to share it with you guys once it's done to serve as an
>insipirational reminder of the power of positive thought. When I am
>having a podium finish at the 2006 Mr. Olympia, who will be laughing ?
>Heh heh heh
>
>I can't wait. I am willing to sign autographs for those who are
>interested. Also, for interested fans, I have my own mailing list to
>keep you all up to date on my wordly adventures, physique evolution
>and general butt kicking activities.
>
>P.S. Thanks for all the fan mail. For those who don't have Internet,
>please mail to the address in Contact info with a self addressed stamp
>and I'll be sure to get back to you when my gruelling schedule permits
>me a modicum of free time.

Neal Fabian II

John M. Williams
June 13th 04, 08:41 PM
(Kevin Kane) wrote:

>Guys,
>
>I appreciate the cynicism. However, you don't have to be jealous.
>Results like MINE are possible if you remain a focused, dedicated
>athlete like myself. Currently, I am writing my biography and would
>be happy to share it with you guys once it's done to serve as an
>insipirational reminder of the power of positive thought. When I am
>having a podium finish at the 2006 Mr. Olympia, who will be laughing ?
>Heh heh heh
>
>I can't wait. I am willing to sign autographs for those who are
>interested. Also, for interested fans, I have my own mailing list to
>keep you all up to date on my wordly adventures, physique evolution
>and general butt kicking activities.
>
>P.S. Thanks for all the fan mail. For those who don't have Internet,
>please mail to the address in Contact info with a self addressed stamp
>and I'll be sure to get back to you when my gruelling schedule permits
>me a modicum of free time.

Neal Fabian II

Hugh Beyer
June 14th 04, 01:37 AM
"David Cohen" > wrote in news:vt0zc.3708$Wr.2793
@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net:

> "elzinator" > wrote
>> Kevin Kane wrote:
>> >Guys,
>> >
>> >I appreciate the cynicism. However, you don't have to be jealous.
>> >Results like MINE are possible if you remain a focused, dedicated
>> >athlete like myself. Currently, I am writing my biography and would
>> >be happy to share it with you guys once it's done to serve as an
>> >insipirational reminder of the power of positive thought. When I am
>> >having a podium finish at the 2006 Mr. Olympia, who will be laughing
>> >? Heh heh heh
>> >
>> >I can't wait. I am willing to sign autographs for those who are
>> >interested. Also, for interested fans, I have my own mailing list to
>> >keep you all up to date on my wordly adventures, physique evolution
>> >and general butt kicking activities.
>> >
>> >P.S. Thanks for all the fan mail. For those who don't have
>> >Internet, please mail to the address in Contact info with a self
>> >addressed stamp and I'll be sure to get back to you when my gruelling
>> >schedule permits me a modicum of free time.
>
>> This guy has to be a Troll.
>
> Let's hope so.
>
> Pretty elaborate trolling. Web page with pics of a little skinny guy.

At least all the pics are of the same guy.

I hate to say it, but I think he's 100% genuine. No need to say genuine
*what*.

And being self-centered is an asset in his chosen field.

Hugh



--
Help! My myofibrillar material is disorganized!

Hugh Beyer
June 14th 04, 01:37 AM
"David Cohen" > wrote in news:vt0zc.3708$Wr.2793
@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net:

> "elzinator" > wrote
>> Kevin Kane wrote:
>> >Guys,
>> >
>> >I appreciate the cynicism. However, you don't have to be jealous.
>> >Results like MINE are possible if you remain a focused, dedicated
>> >athlete like myself. Currently, I am writing my biography and would
>> >be happy to share it with you guys once it's done to serve as an
>> >insipirational reminder of the power of positive thought. When I am
>> >having a podium finish at the 2006 Mr. Olympia, who will be laughing
>> >? Heh heh heh
>> >
>> >I can't wait. I am willing to sign autographs for those who are
>> >interested. Also, for interested fans, I have my own mailing list to
>> >keep you all up to date on my wordly adventures, physique evolution
>> >and general butt kicking activities.
>> >
>> >P.S. Thanks for all the fan mail. For those who don't have
>> >Internet, please mail to the address in Contact info with a self
>> >addressed stamp and I'll be sure to get back to you when my gruelling
>> >schedule permits me a modicum of free time.
>
>> This guy has to be a Troll.
>
> Let's hope so.
>
> Pretty elaborate trolling. Web page with pics of a little skinny guy.

At least all the pics are of the same guy.

I hate to say it, but I think he's 100% genuine. No need to say genuine
*what*.

And being self-centered is an asset in his chosen field.

Hugh



--
Help! My myofibrillar material is disorganized!

the black rose
June 14th 04, 01:41 AM
elzinator wrote:
> On 13 Jun 2004 09:52:45 -0700, Kevin Kane wrote:
>
>>Guys,
>>
>>I appreciate the cynicism. However, you don't have to be jealous.
>>Results like MINE are possible if you remain a focused, dedicated
>>athlete like myself. Currently, I am writing my biography and would
>>be happy to share it with you guys once it's done to serve as an
>>insipirational reminder of the power of positive thought. When I am
>>having a podium finish at the 2006 Mr. Olympia, who will be laughing ?
>>Heh heh heh
>>
>>I can't wait. I am willing to sign autographs for those who are
>>interested. Also, for interested fans, I have my own mailing list to
>>keep you all up to date on my wordly adventures, physique evolution
>>and general butt kicking activities.
>>
>>P.S. Thanks for all the fan mail. For those who don't have Internet,
>>please mail to the address in Contact info with a self addressed stamp
>>and I'll be sure to get back to you when my gruelling schedule permits
>>me a modicum of free time.
>>
>>
>>Kevin
>
>
> This guy has to be a Troll.

That, or he's *really* desperately trying to harness the power of
positive thinking. Or it's a variation on the Soviet Propaganda
Principle: Tell a big enough lie, and people will believe you.

--
the black rose, wench with a wrench
proud to be owned by a yorkie
http://community.webshots.com/user/blackrosequilts

the black rose
June 14th 04, 01:41 AM
elzinator wrote:
> On 13 Jun 2004 09:52:45 -0700, Kevin Kane wrote:
>
>>Guys,
>>
>>I appreciate the cynicism. However, you don't have to be jealous.
>>Results like MINE are possible if you remain a focused, dedicated
>>athlete like myself. Currently, I am writing my biography and would
>>be happy to share it with you guys once it's done to serve as an
>>insipirational reminder of the power of positive thought. When I am
>>having a podium finish at the 2006 Mr. Olympia, who will be laughing ?
>>Heh heh heh
>>
>>I can't wait. I am willing to sign autographs for those who are
>>interested. Also, for interested fans, I have my own mailing list to
>>keep you all up to date on my wordly adventures, physique evolution
>>and general butt kicking activities.
>>
>>P.S. Thanks for all the fan mail. For those who don't have Internet,
>>please mail to the address in Contact info with a self addressed stamp
>>and I'll be sure to get back to you when my gruelling schedule permits
>>me a modicum of free time.
>>
>>
>>Kevin
>
>
> This guy has to be a Troll.

That, or he's *really* desperately trying to harness the power of
positive thinking. Or it's a variation on the Soviet Propaganda
Principle: Tell a big enough lie, and people will believe you.

--
the black rose, wench with a wrench
proud to be owned by a yorkie
http://community.webshots.com/user/blackrosequilts

elzinator
June 14th 04, 02:12 AM
On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 00:41:39 GMT, the black rose wrote:
>elzinator wrote:
>> On 13 Jun 2004 09:52:45 -0700, Kevin Kane wrote:
>>
>>>Guys,
>>>
>>>I appreciate the cynicism. However, you don't have to be jealous.
>>>Results like MINE are possible if you remain a focused, dedicated
>>>athlete like myself. Currently, I am writing my biography and would
>>>be happy to share it with you guys once it's done to serve as an
>>>insipirational reminder of the power of positive thought. When I am
>>>having a podium finish at the 2006 Mr. Olympia, who will be laughing ?
>>>Heh heh heh
>>>
>>>I can't wait. I am willing to sign autographs for those who are
>>>interested. Also, for interested fans, I have my own mailing list to
>>>keep you all up to date on my wordly adventures, physique evolution
>>>and general butt kicking activities.
>>>
>>>P.S. Thanks for all the fan mail. For those who don't have Internet,
>>>please mail to the address in Contact info with a self addressed stamp
>>>and I'll be sure to get back to you when my gruelling schedule permits
>>>me a modicum of free time.
>>>
>>>
>>>Kevin
>>
>>
>> This guy has to be a Troll.
>
>That, or he's *really* desperately trying to harness the power of
>positive thinking. Or it's a variation on the Soviet Propaganda
>Principle: Tell a big enough lie, and people will believe you.

Nope. I think its a case of Troll or Hopelessly Deluded.

BTW, ever do any SouthWest pattern quilts? I hate the commercial ones
(guady).


"I am the monster." - Riddick

elzinator
June 14th 04, 02:12 AM
On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 00:41:39 GMT, the black rose wrote:
>elzinator wrote:
>> On 13 Jun 2004 09:52:45 -0700, Kevin Kane wrote:
>>
>>>Guys,
>>>
>>>I appreciate the cynicism. However, you don't have to be jealous.
>>>Results like MINE are possible if you remain a focused, dedicated
>>>athlete like myself. Currently, I am writing my biography and would
>>>be happy to share it with you guys once it's done to serve as an
>>>insipirational reminder of the power of positive thought. When I am
>>>having a podium finish at the 2006 Mr. Olympia, who will be laughing ?
>>>Heh heh heh
>>>
>>>I can't wait. I am willing to sign autographs for those who are
>>>interested. Also, for interested fans, I have my own mailing list to
>>>keep you all up to date on my wordly adventures, physique evolution
>>>and general butt kicking activities.
>>>
>>>P.S. Thanks for all the fan mail. For those who don't have Internet,
>>>please mail to the address in Contact info with a self addressed stamp
>>>and I'll be sure to get back to you when my gruelling schedule permits
>>>me a modicum of free time.
>>>
>>>
>>>Kevin
>>
>>
>> This guy has to be a Troll.
>
>That, or he's *really* desperately trying to harness the power of
>positive thinking. Or it's a variation on the Soviet Propaganda
>Principle: Tell a big enough lie, and people will believe you.

Nope. I think its a case of Troll or Hopelessly Deluded.

BTW, ever do any SouthWest pattern quilts? I hate the commercial ones
(guady).


"I am the monster." - Riddick

elzinator
June 14th 04, 02:20 AM
On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 00:41:39 GMT, the black rose wrote:
>elzinator wrote:
>> On 13 Jun 2004 09:52:45 -0700, Kevin Kane wrote:
>>
>>>Guys,
>>>
>>>I appreciate the cynicism. However, you don't have to be jealous.
>>>Results like MINE are possible if you remain a focused, dedicated
>>>athlete like myself. Currently, I am writing my biography and would
>>>be happy to share it with you guys once it's done to serve as an
>>>insipirational reminder of the power of positive thought. When I am
>>>having a podium finish at the 2006 Mr. Olympia, who will be laughing ?
>>>Heh heh heh
>>>
>>>I can't wait. I am willing to sign autographs for those who are
>>>interested. Also, for interested fans, I have my own mailing list to
>>>keep you all up to date on my wordly adventures, physique evolution
>>>and general butt kicking activities.
>>>
>>>P.S. Thanks for all the fan mail. For those who don't have Internet,
>>>please mail to the address in Contact info with a self addressed stamp
>>>and I'll be sure to get back to you when my gruelling schedule permits
>>>me a modicum of free time.
>>>
>>>
>>>Kevin
>>
>>
>> This guy has to be a Troll.
>
>That, or he's *really* desperately trying to harness the power of
>positive thinking. Or it's a variation on the Soviet Propaganda
>Principle: Tell a big enough lie, and people will believe you.

BTW sub2: there is now an almost-real black rose. (it made the science
journals :) I intend to grow it when I have my place.

I tried growing all the ones that were purported to be 'black' on the
ranch in Oregon (the flower garden along the road fence line was a
mixture of purported 'black' irises and roses, mixed with silver
foliage, and occasional red daylillies with black throats. A friend
who shares my warped sense of humor called it the "Volk Goth Garden".)
I like black; what can I say.....

Just don't call my horse the Goth Horse; I'd have to kill someone.


"I am the monster." - Riddick

elzinator
June 14th 04, 02:20 AM
On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 00:41:39 GMT, the black rose wrote:
>elzinator wrote:
>> On 13 Jun 2004 09:52:45 -0700, Kevin Kane wrote:
>>
>>>Guys,
>>>
>>>I appreciate the cynicism. However, you don't have to be jealous.
>>>Results like MINE are possible if you remain a focused, dedicated
>>>athlete like myself. Currently, I am writing my biography and would
>>>be happy to share it with you guys once it's done to serve as an
>>>insipirational reminder of the power of positive thought. When I am
>>>having a podium finish at the 2006 Mr. Olympia, who will be laughing ?
>>>Heh heh heh
>>>
>>>I can't wait. I am willing to sign autographs for those who are
>>>interested. Also, for interested fans, I have my own mailing list to
>>>keep you all up to date on my wordly adventures, physique evolution
>>>and general butt kicking activities.
>>>
>>>P.S. Thanks for all the fan mail. For those who don't have Internet,
>>>please mail to the address in Contact info with a self addressed stamp
>>>and I'll be sure to get back to you when my gruelling schedule permits
>>>me a modicum of free time.
>>>
>>>
>>>Kevin
>>
>>
>> This guy has to be a Troll.
>
>That, or he's *really* desperately trying to harness the power of
>positive thinking. Or it's a variation on the Soviet Propaganda
>Principle: Tell a big enough lie, and people will believe you.

BTW sub2: there is now an almost-real black rose. (it made the science
journals :) I intend to grow it when I have my place.

I tried growing all the ones that were purported to be 'black' on the
ranch in Oregon (the flower garden along the road fence line was a
mixture of purported 'black' irises and roses, mixed with silver
foliage, and occasional red daylillies with black throats. A friend
who shares my warped sense of humor called it the "Volk Goth Garden".)
I like black; what can I say.....

Just don't call my horse the Goth Horse; I'd have to kill someone.


"I am the monster." - Riddick

David Cohen
June 14th 04, 02:24 AM
"elzinator" > wrote
>
> BTW, ever do any SouthWest pattern quilts? I hate the commercial
ones
> (guady).

Southwest pattern quilts reminded me of horse blankets, which reminded
me: Samantha recently did a one week horse camp, and now she loves
riding. So, since I can't have her knowing stuff that I don't, I'm
gonna' take some riding lessons, too. Any helpful hints you'd like to
share? My favorite aspect of interacting with dogs is knowing dog
language, and being able to understand and "speak" to them. Is that
kind of communication possible with horses? How best to go about
achieving it?

David

David Cohen
June 14th 04, 02:24 AM
"elzinator" > wrote
>
> BTW, ever do any SouthWest pattern quilts? I hate the commercial
ones
> (guady).

Southwest pattern quilts reminded me of horse blankets, which reminded
me: Samantha recently did a one week horse camp, and now she loves
riding. So, since I can't have her knowing stuff that I don't, I'm
gonna' take some riding lessons, too. Any helpful hints you'd like to
share? My favorite aspect of interacting with dogs is knowing dog
language, and being able to understand and "speak" to them. Is that
kind of communication possible with horses? How best to go about
achieving it?

David

the black rose
June 14th 04, 02:59 AM
elzinator wrote:
> BTW, ever do any SouthWest pattern quilts? I hate the commercial ones
> (guady).

Nope. I've seen some interesting patterns though, and someone I know is
making a southwest bargello quilt for this guy she knows from the
internet. That situation sort of soured me on the whole southwest quilt
scene. Right now I'm working on a mariner's compass quilt for my
13-year-old son. (GAWDS, some day I'll learn to make quilt blocks that
don't take all day to put together!) After that I'm making another
kaleidoscope quilt, this one in blues, for my 17-year-old son. I swear,
I've got more projects lined up than I have time for in my life.

--
the black rose, wench with a wrench
proud to be owned by a yorkie
http://community.webshots.com/user/blackrosequilts

the black rose
June 14th 04, 02:59 AM
elzinator wrote:
> BTW, ever do any SouthWest pattern quilts? I hate the commercial ones
> (guady).

Nope. I've seen some interesting patterns though, and someone I know is
making a southwest bargello quilt for this guy she knows from the
internet. That situation sort of soured me on the whole southwest quilt
scene. Right now I'm working on a mariner's compass quilt for my
13-year-old son. (GAWDS, some day I'll learn to make quilt blocks that
don't take all day to put together!) After that I'm making another
kaleidoscope quilt, this one in blues, for my 17-year-old son. I swear,
I've got more projects lined up than I have time for in my life.

--
the black rose, wench with a wrench
proud to be owned by a yorkie
http://community.webshots.com/user/blackrosequilts

elzinator
June 14th 04, 04:33 AM
On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 01:24:00 GMT, David Cohen wrote:
>
>"elzinator" > wrote
>>
>> BTW, ever do any SouthWest pattern quilts? I hate the commercial
>ones
>> (guady).
>
>Southwest pattern quilts reminded me of horse blankets, which reminded
>me: Samantha recently did a one week horse camp, and now she loves
>riding. So, since I can't have her knowing stuff that I don't, I'm
>gonna' take some riding lessons, too.

Excellent!!

>Any helpful hints you'd like to
>share? My favorite aspect of interacting with dogs is knowing dog
>language, and being able to understand and "speak" to them. Is that
>kind of communication possible with horses? How best to go about
>achieving it?

Oh, absolutely!
A background knowledge in horse psychology is a significant asset in
learning to ride and interacting with a horse. I was fortunate enough
to be with several folks with extensive horse knowledge (psychology as
well as other aspects), including an academic (now retired) whose
expertise was, yup, horse psychology (at OSU). She used to write
columns for the magazine "Horse Illustrated". If you can find those in
your public library, I highly recommend reading them. She also raised
and showed Morgan horses, so her knowledge was more than just
academic.

I can suggest a few good books to get you started*, and I have a pdf
of an article Carol authored for a special issue in Applied Animal
Behaviour Sciences (2002) on the body language and noises animals make
(review): "Understanding the perceptual world of horses." I highly
recommend you read it and I am happy to email it to you.

Invariably, the best books are written by good and renown trainers.
They are famous and successful for a reason: they know how to
communicate with horses and they know how they think. It's a
combination of instinctive and learned knowledge.

Carol was the one who alerted me to Shadow's idiosyncratic behavior
(he is a weird horse; not just my own biased observations) and issues
I need to be aware of for my own protection (he literally thinks I'm
his social equal, sort of his Mommy) and how I can incorporate that
into our training and working relationship. I have her to thank for a
large proportion of our successful cooperative relationship. And I owe
my comprehension of the instinctive nature of horses to Carol due to a
presentation she did for our 4-H horse club (it was filled with
personal epitaphs of when she spent months in the deserts and
mountains watching wild horses). She's eccentric and opinionated as
hell, but a very knowledgable person willing to share. (I can relate
all kinds of interesting stories :)

Hey, if I recall, there is a riding stable near you. I looked into it
a few years ago when I met up with a crew of Internet weightlifters.
If you have time off, we can all go for a ride :)
(I plan on taking my vacation during that time, so I have a week to
play)

So you had better condition your ass, David. For we'se goin' fer a
ride!!
(maybe we can coax Keith and others into it, too. Hint: Don't squat
with your spurs on.)

*
"Horses Don't Lie:....." Chris Irwin and Bob Weber.
If you can weed through the "how horses can help you" crap, it is a
good basic and insightful book on how to 'read' a horse.

"Understanding the Ancient Secrets of the Horse's Mind" by Robert M.
Miller. A veterinarian and equine behavior specialist. I highly
recommend his books; not only are they well written and enjoyable to
read, but authoritative.

I strongly recommend videos. They are exceptionally helpful because of
their visual illustration of interactions between horse and human.
Miller has several, one of which may interest you: "Understanding
Horses".
Website for Miller's books and videos:
http://store.yahoo.com/rmm-communications/index.html

"Understanding Horse Behavior" Sue McDonald, PhD. Very good book on
horse psychology in the wild and domestic environment, and how to use
that knowledge in riding/training/interacting.

"The Body Language of Horses: Revealing the Nature of Equine Needs,
Wishes, and Emotions and How Horses Communicate Them--For Owners,
Breeders, Trainers" Tom Ainslie. An excellent book from what I hear.

Videos:

Mostly trainers. A few I would recommend:
John Lyons (seen his clinics in person, one of the few that have the
'art' of communication with horses and knows how to use it and relate
it to others)

Richard Shrake: I personally don't care for Shrake (Met him, seen him
several times; he's a good trainer, but he's full of himself) and he's
very popular up in the Pacific Northwest. His videos are basic and
offer good info.

Trivia: if you are interested in the history of horses and
horsemanship, the following book is exceptional. Deb Bennett has
written informational and exceptional columns, essays, articles for
the many horse magazines since I can remember. This is a really
fascinating book: "Conquerors: The Roots of New World Horsemanship"
(Dr. Deb Bennett)

If you can find it (I have a copied version), a video on liberty horse
training "Liberty Training" by Carolyn Resnick. This is training
horses using their psychology and language, developing communication
based on common trust and body language. No riding equipment; it's all
free-hand within a small enclosed arena (round pen, etc). (an example:
http://www.ahadd.com/libertytraining/)

I fist learned of liberty training from Eric Anderson of Washington,
who had an awesome magnificent black Arabian stallion that he liberty
trained and rode bareback, no bridle, no reins. Just his body and
voice. They were almost magical (but stud horses will be studs and he
decided one day at an outdoor exhibition to say "**** you" to Eric
during a performance and escaped to visit a mare in heat. What an
interesting 'real-life' situation that was. Eric ultimately coaxed him
back to the arena..... without a halter and lead rope).

Considering Shadow's extended recovery time from his injuries, all we
could do was ground work for quite a long time. Shadow is readily
bored but likes challenges and is eager to learn new things, which I
took advantage of. We learned liberty training together and it was
that which set the groundwork for not only riding on his back, but
cemented the trust and communication between the two of us. I'm going
to have to use it again as a 'reminder' when he rejoins me soon.
(we've been apart too long and he needs a refresher course :)

Damn, it will be good for the both of us to be together again. There
is nothing equal to riding on the back of a horse, giving him the
reins and let him go, feel the power beneath your seat, between your
legs and the will and trust of your best friend.. together.

(yes, its better than sex: he doesn't lie, he won't betray me, and
he's honest. :)

Welcome to my world of horses.


"I am the monster." - Riddick

elzinator
June 14th 04, 04:33 AM
On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 01:24:00 GMT, David Cohen wrote:
>
>"elzinator" > wrote
>>
>> BTW, ever do any SouthWest pattern quilts? I hate the commercial
>ones
>> (guady).
>
>Southwest pattern quilts reminded me of horse blankets, which reminded
>me: Samantha recently did a one week horse camp, and now she loves
>riding. So, since I can't have her knowing stuff that I don't, I'm
>gonna' take some riding lessons, too.

Excellent!!

>Any helpful hints you'd like to
>share? My favorite aspect of interacting with dogs is knowing dog
>language, and being able to understand and "speak" to them. Is that
>kind of communication possible with horses? How best to go about
>achieving it?

Oh, absolutely!
A background knowledge in horse psychology is a significant asset in
learning to ride and interacting with a horse. I was fortunate enough
to be with several folks with extensive horse knowledge (psychology as
well as other aspects), including an academic (now retired) whose
expertise was, yup, horse psychology (at OSU). She used to write
columns for the magazine "Horse Illustrated". If you can find those in
your public library, I highly recommend reading them. She also raised
and showed Morgan horses, so her knowledge was more than just
academic.

I can suggest a few good books to get you started*, and I have a pdf
of an article Carol authored for a special issue in Applied Animal
Behaviour Sciences (2002) on the body language and noises animals make
(review): "Understanding the perceptual world of horses." I highly
recommend you read it and I am happy to email it to you.

Invariably, the best books are written by good and renown trainers.
They are famous and successful for a reason: they know how to
communicate with horses and they know how they think. It's a
combination of instinctive and learned knowledge.

Carol was the one who alerted me to Shadow's idiosyncratic behavior
(he is a weird horse; not just my own biased observations) and issues
I need to be aware of for my own protection (he literally thinks I'm
his social equal, sort of his Mommy) and how I can incorporate that
into our training and working relationship. I have her to thank for a
large proportion of our successful cooperative relationship. And I owe
my comprehension of the instinctive nature of horses to Carol due to a
presentation she did for our 4-H horse club (it was filled with
personal epitaphs of when she spent months in the deserts and
mountains watching wild horses). She's eccentric and opinionated as
hell, but a very knowledgable person willing to share. (I can relate
all kinds of interesting stories :)

Hey, if I recall, there is a riding stable near you. I looked into it
a few years ago when I met up with a crew of Internet weightlifters.
If you have time off, we can all go for a ride :)
(I plan on taking my vacation during that time, so I have a week to
play)

So you had better condition your ass, David. For we'se goin' fer a
ride!!
(maybe we can coax Keith and others into it, too. Hint: Don't squat
with your spurs on.)

*
"Horses Don't Lie:....." Chris Irwin and Bob Weber.
If you can weed through the "how horses can help you" crap, it is a
good basic and insightful book on how to 'read' a horse.

"Understanding the Ancient Secrets of the Horse's Mind" by Robert M.
Miller. A veterinarian and equine behavior specialist. I highly
recommend his books; not only are they well written and enjoyable to
read, but authoritative.

I strongly recommend videos. They are exceptionally helpful because of
their visual illustration of interactions between horse and human.
Miller has several, one of which may interest you: "Understanding
Horses".
Website for Miller's books and videos:
http://store.yahoo.com/rmm-communications/index.html

"Understanding Horse Behavior" Sue McDonald, PhD. Very good book on
horse psychology in the wild and domestic environment, and how to use
that knowledge in riding/training/interacting.

"The Body Language of Horses: Revealing the Nature of Equine Needs,
Wishes, and Emotions and How Horses Communicate Them--For Owners,
Breeders, Trainers" Tom Ainslie. An excellent book from what I hear.

Videos:

Mostly trainers. A few I would recommend:
John Lyons (seen his clinics in person, one of the few that have the
'art' of communication with horses and knows how to use it and relate
it to others)

Richard Shrake: I personally don't care for Shrake (Met him, seen him
several times; he's a good trainer, but he's full of himself) and he's
very popular up in the Pacific Northwest. His videos are basic and
offer good info.

Trivia: if you are interested in the history of horses and
horsemanship, the following book is exceptional. Deb Bennett has
written informational and exceptional columns, essays, articles for
the many horse magazines since I can remember. This is a really
fascinating book: "Conquerors: The Roots of New World Horsemanship"
(Dr. Deb Bennett)

If you can find it (I have a copied version), a video on liberty horse
training "Liberty Training" by Carolyn Resnick. This is training
horses using their psychology and language, developing communication
based on common trust and body language. No riding equipment; it's all
free-hand within a small enclosed arena (round pen, etc). (an example:
http://www.ahadd.com/libertytraining/)

I fist learned of liberty training from Eric Anderson of Washington,
who had an awesome magnificent black Arabian stallion that he liberty
trained and rode bareback, no bridle, no reins. Just his body and
voice. They were almost magical (but stud horses will be studs and he
decided one day at an outdoor exhibition to say "**** you" to Eric
during a performance and escaped to visit a mare in heat. What an
interesting 'real-life' situation that was. Eric ultimately coaxed him
back to the arena..... without a halter and lead rope).

Considering Shadow's extended recovery time from his injuries, all we
could do was ground work for quite a long time. Shadow is readily
bored but likes challenges and is eager to learn new things, which I
took advantage of. We learned liberty training together and it was
that which set the groundwork for not only riding on his back, but
cemented the trust and communication between the two of us. I'm going
to have to use it again as a 'reminder' when he rejoins me soon.
(we've been apart too long and he needs a refresher course :)

Damn, it will be good for the both of us to be together again. There
is nothing equal to riding on the back of a horse, giving him the
reins and let him go, feel the power beneath your seat, between your
legs and the will and trust of your best friend.. together.

(yes, its better than sex: he doesn't lie, he won't betray me, and
he's honest. :)

Welcome to my world of horses.


"I am the monster." - Riddick

Art S
June 14th 04, 06:03 AM
"elzinator" > wrote in message
...
>
> Hey, if I recall, there is a riding stable near you. I looked into it
> a few years ago when I met up with a crew of Internet weightlifters.
> If you have time off, we can all go for a ride :)
> (I plan on taking my vacation during that time, so I have a week to
> play)
>

Probably several.

One of my coworkers bought a horse for his daughter; she is taking
lessons at a nearby stable. We visited it during lunch one day. Also,
when I was looking for a house, one of the places was in a block of
homes with 1/2+ acre yards, with the center of the block (accessable
to all on the block) being a riding track. I've heard of others.

> So you had better condition your ass, David. For we'se goin' fer a
> ride!!

How does one condition one's ass for riding without riding?

> (maybe we can coax Keith and others into it, too. Hint: Don't squat
> with your spurs on.)
>

Well, at least not ass-to-grass squats.

Art

Art S
June 14th 04, 06:03 AM
"elzinator" > wrote in message
...
>
> Hey, if I recall, there is a riding stable near you. I looked into it
> a few years ago when I met up with a crew of Internet weightlifters.
> If you have time off, we can all go for a ride :)
> (I plan on taking my vacation during that time, so I have a week to
> play)
>

Probably several.

One of my coworkers bought a horse for his daughter; she is taking
lessons at a nearby stable. We visited it during lunch one day. Also,
when I was looking for a house, one of the places was in a block of
homes with 1/2+ acre yards, with the center of the block (accessable
to all on the block) being a riding track. I've heard of others.

> So you had better condition your ass, David. For we'se goin' fer a
> ride!!

How does one condition one's ass for riding without riding?

> (maybe we can coax Keith and others into it, too. Hint: Don't squat
> with your spurs on.)
>

Well, at least not ass-to-grass squats.

Art

Lucas Buck
June 14th 04, 10:53 AM
On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 20:20:22 -0500, elzinator > wrote:

>On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 00:41:39 GMT, the black rose wrote:
>>elzinator wrote:
>>> On 13 Jun 2004 09:52:45 -0700, Kevin Kane wrote:
>>>
>>>>Guys,
>>>>
>>>>I appreciate the cynicism. However, you don't have to be jealous.
>>>>Results like MINE are possible if you remain a focused, dedicated
>>>>athlete like myself. Currently, I am writing my biography and would
>>>>be happy to share it with you guys once it's done to serve as an
>>>>insipirational reminder of the power of positive thought. When I am
>>>>having a podium finish at the 2006 Mr. Olympia, who will be laughing ?
>>>>Heh heh heh
>>>>
>>>>I can't wait. I am willing to sign autographs for those who are
>>>>interested. Also, for interested fans, I have my own mailing list to
>>>>keep you all up to date on my wordly adventures, physique evolution
>>>>and general butt kicking activities.
>>>>
>>>>P.S. Thanks for all the fan mail. For those who don't have Internet,
>>>>please mail to the address in Contact info with a self addressed stamp
>>>>and I'll be sure to get back to you when my gruelling schedule permits
>>>>me a modicum of free time.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Kevin
>>>
>>>
>>> This guy has to be a Troll.
>>
>>That, or he's *really* desperately trying to harness the power of
>>positive thinking. Or it's a variation on the Soviet Propaganda
>>Principle: Tell a big enough lie, and people will believe you.
>
>BTW sub2: there is now an almost-real black rose. (it made the science
>journals :) I intend to grow it when I have my place.
>
>I tried growing all the ones that were purported to be 'black' on the
>ranch in Oregon (the flower garden along the road fence line was a
>mixture of purported 'black' irises and roses, mixed with silver
>foliage, and occasional red daylillies with black throats. A friend
>who shares my warped sense of humor called it the "Volk Goth Garden".)
>I like black; what can I say.....
>
>Just don't call my horse the Goth Horse; I'd have to kill someone.


Plus, it's rude to look a Goth horse in the mouth.

Lucas Buck
June 14th 04, 10:53 AM
On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 20:20:22 -0500, elzinator > wrote:

>On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 00:41:39 GMT, the black rose wrote:
>>elzinator wrote:
>>> On 13 Jun 2004 09:52:45 -0700, Kevin Kane wrote:
>>>
>>>>Guys,
>>>>
>>>>I appreciate the cynicism. However, you don't have to be jealous.
>>>>Results like MINE are possible if you remain a focused, dedicated
>>>>athlete like myself. Currently, I am writing my biography and would
>>>>be happy to share it with you guys once it's done to serve as an
>>>>insipirational reminder of the power of positive thought. When I am
>>>>having a podium finish at the 2006 Mr. Olympia, who will be laughing ?
>>>>Heh heh heh
>>>>
>>>>I can't wait. I am willing to sign autographs for those who are
>>>>interested. Also, for interested fans, I have my own mailing list to
>>>>keep you all up to date on my wordly adventures, physique evolution
>>>>and general butt kicking activities.
>>>>
>>>>P.S. Thanks for all the fan mail. For those who don't have Internet,
>>>>please mail to the address in Contact info with a self addressed stamp
>>>>and I'll be sure to get back to you when my gruelling schedule permits
>>>>me a modicum of free time.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Kevin
>>>
>>>
>>> This guy has to be a Troll.
>>
>>That, or he's *really* desperately trying to harness the power of
>>positive thinking. Or it's a variation on the Soviet Propaganda
>>Principle: Tell a big enough lie, and people will believe you.
>
>BTW sub2: there is now an almost-real black rose. (it made the science
>journals :) I intend to grow it when I have my place.
>
>I tried growing all the ones that were purported to be 'black' on the
>ranch in Oregon (the flower garden along the road fence line was a
>mixture of purported 'black' irises and roses, mixed with silver
>foliage, and occasional red daylillies with black throats. A friend
>who shares my warped sense of humor called it the "Volk Goth Garden".)
>I like black; what can I say.....
>
>Just don't call my horse the Goth Horse; I'd have to kill someone.


Plus, it's rude to look a Goth horse in the mouth.

the black rose
June 14th 04, 03:08 PM
Lucas Buck wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 20:20:22 -0500, elzinator > wrote:
>
>
>>On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 00:41:39 GMT, the black rose wrote:
>>
>>>elzinator wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 13 Jun 2004 09:52:45 -0700, Kevin Kane wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Guys,
>>>>>
>>>>>I appreciate the cynicism. However, you don't have to be jealous.
>>>>>Results like MINE are possible if you remain a focused, dedicated
>>>>>athlete like myself. Currently, I am writing my biography and would
>>>>>be happy to share it with you guys once it's done to serve as an
>>>>>insipirational reminder of the power of positive thought. When I am
>>>>>having a podium finish at the 2006 Mr. Olympia, who will be laughing ?
>>>>>Heh heh heh
>>>>>
>>>>>I can't wait. I am willing to sign autographs for those who are
>>>>>interested. Also, for interested fans, I have my own mailing list to
>>>>>keep you all up to date on my wordly adventures, physique evolution
>>>>>and general butt kicking activities.
>>>>>
>>>>>P.S. Thanks for all the fan mail. For those who don't have Internet,
>>>>>please mail to the address in Contact info with a self addressed stamp
>>>>>and I'll be sure to get back to you when my gruelling schedule permits
>>>>>me a modicum of free time.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Kevin
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>This guy has to be a Troll.
>>>
>>>That, or he's *really* desperately trying to harness the power of
>>>positive thinking. Or it's a variation on the Soviet Propaganda
>>>Principle: Tell a big enough lie, and people will believe you.
>>
>>BTW sub2: there is now an almost-real black rose. (it made the science
>>journals :) I intend to grow it when I have my place.
>>
>>I tried growing all the ones that were purported to be 'black' on the
>>ranch in Oregon (the flower garden along the road fence line was a
>>mixture of purported 'black' irises and roses, mixed with silver
>>foliage, and occasional red daylillies with black throats. A friend
>>who shares my warped sense of humor called it the "Volk Goth Garden".)
>>I like black; what can I say.....
>>
>>Just don't call my horse the Goth Horse; I'd have to kill someone.
>
>
>
> Plus, it's rude to look a Goth horse in the mouth.

*snorfle*

I've been accused of Goth-ness. My closet is a study in black. Well,
and some red, I like red too. But at 44, I don't really do Goth, I'm
way too old for it and would just look like, well, a middle-aged woman
trying to look 20 years younger. Plus I'm allergic to make-up, and
fresh-faced doesn't go well with Goth. I have some fishnet gloves
though, which I reserve for Halloween and Wierd Al concerts, and a
*great* vamp blouse.

--
the black rose, wench with a wrench
proud to be owned by a yorkie
http://community.webshots.com/user/blackrosequilts

the black rose
June 14th 04, 03:08 PM
Lucas Buck wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 20:20:22 -0500, elzinator > wrote:
>
>
>>On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 00:41:39 GMT, the black rose wrote:
>>
>>>elzinator wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 13 Jun 2004 09:52:45 -0700, Kevin Kane wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Guys,
>>>>>
>>>>>I appreciate the cynicism. However, you don't have to be jealous.
>>>>>Results like MINE are possible if you remain a focused, dedicated
>>>>>athlete like myself. Currently, I am writing my biography and would
>>>>>be happy to share it with you guys once it's done to serve as an
>>>>>insipirational reminder of the power of positive thought. When I am
>>>>>having a podium finish at the 2006 Mr. Olympia, who will be laughing ?
>>>>>Heh heh heh
>>>>>
>>>>>I can't wait. I am willing to sign autographs for those who are
>>>>>interested. Also, for interested fans, I have my own mailing list to
>>>>>keep you all up to date on my wordly adventures, physique evolution
>>>>>and general butt kicking activities.
>>>>>
>>>>>P.S. Thanks for all the fan mail. For those who don't have Internet,
>>>>>please mail to the address in Contact info with a self addressed stamp
>>>>>and I'll be sure to get back to you when my gruelling schedule permits
>>>>>me a modicum of free time.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Kevin
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>This guy has to be a Troll.
>>>
>>>That, or he's *really* desperately trying to harness the power of
>>>positive thinking. Or it's a variation on the Soviet Propaganda
>>>Principle: Tell a big enough lie, and people will believe you.
>>
>>BTW sub2: there is now an almost-real black rose. (it made the science
>>journals :) I intend to grow it when I have my place.
>>
>>I tried growing all the ones that were purported to be 'black' on the
>>ranch in Oregon (the flower garden along the road fence line was a
>>mixture of purported 'black' irises and roses, mixed with silver
>>foliage, and occasional red daylillies with black throats. A friend
>>who shares my warped sense of humor called it the "Volk Goth Garden".)
>>I like black; what can I say.....
>>
>>Just don't call my horse the Goth Horse; I'd have to kill someone.
>
>
>
> Plus, it's rude to look a Goth horse in the mouth.

*snorfle*

I've been accused of Goth-ness. My closet is a study in black. Well,
and some red, I like red too. But at 44, I don't really do Goth, I'm
way too old for it and would just look like, well, a middle-aged woman
trying to look 20 years younger. Plus I'm allergic to make-up, and
fresh-faced doesn't go well with Goth. I have some fishnet gloves
though, which I reserve for Halloween and Wierd Al concerts, and a
*great* vamp blouse.

--
the black rose, wench with a wrench
proud to be owned by a yorkie
http://community.webshots.com/user/blackrosequilts

David Cohen
June 14th 04, 05:57 PM
"Art S" > wrote
> "elzinator" > wrote > >
> > Hey, if I recall, there is a riding stable near you. I looked into
it
> > a few years ago when I met up with a crew of Internet
weightlifters.
> > If you have time off, we can all go for a ride :)
> > (I plan on taking my vacation during that time, so I have a week
to
> > play)
> >
> Probably several.
>
> One of my coworkers bought a horse for his daughter; she is taking
> lessons at a nearby stable. We visited it during lunch one day.
Also,
> when I was looking for a house, one of the places was in a block of
> homes with 1/2+ acre yards, with the center of the block (accessable
> to all on the block) being a riding track. I've heard of others.
>
> > So you had better condition your ass, David. For we'se goin' fer a
> > ride!!
>
> How does one condition one's ass for riding without riding?
>
> > (maybe we can coax Keith and others into it, too. Hint: Don't
squat
> > with your spurs on.)
> >
> Well, at least not ass-to-grass squats.

Aaaarrggg..this is VERY frustrating! First it was MY posts that Elzi
wasn't seeing. Now I'm missing some of hers!

Thank you, Art, for responding to Elzi's answer, so I could she that
she did, then I went to Google Groups and found her post.

Elzi, thanks for the long, detailed answer. That's one of the parts of
a new "hobby" that I really love: reading lots of books and stuff.

We'll definitely go riding in December, before or after the meet.
There's probably riding stables in Laughlin, too. I'll look in to it.
Art's gonna' ride, too. (the official MFW Horseback Photographer!)

David

David Cohen
June 14th 04, 05:57 PM
"Art S" > wrote
> "elzinator" > wrote > >
> > Hey, if I recall, there is a riding stable near you. I looked into
it
> > a few years ago when I met up with a crew of Internet
weightlifters.
> > If you have time off, we can all go for a ride :)
> > (I plan on taking my vacation during that time, so I have a week
to
> > play)
> >
> Probably several.
>
> One of my coworkers bought a horse for his daughter; she is taking
> lessons at a nearby stable. We visited it during lunch one day.
Also,
> when I was looking for a house, one of the places was in a block of
> homes with 1/2+ acre yards, with the center of the block (accessable
> to all on the block) being a riding track. I've heard of others.
>
> > So you had better condition your ass, David. For we'se goin' fer a
> > ride!!
>
> How does one condition one's ass for riding without riding?
>
> > (maybe we can coax Keith and others into it, too. Hint: Don't
squat
> > with your spurs on.)
> >
> Well, at least not ass-to-grass squats.

Aaaarrggg..this is VERY frustrating! First it was MY posts that Elzi
wasn't seeing. Now I'm missing some of hers!

Thank you, Art, for responding to Elzi's answer, so I could she that
she did, then I went to Google Groups and found her post.

Elzi, thanks for the long, detailed answer. That's one of the parts of
a new "hobby" that I really love: reading lots of books and stuff.

We'll definitely go riding in December, before or after the meet.
There's probably riding stables in Laughlin, too. I'll look in to it.
Art's gonna' ride, too. (the official MFW Horseback Photographer!)

David

Hoff
June 14th 04, 08:44 PM
"elzinator" > wrote in message
...
>
> So you had better condition your ass, David. For we'se goin' fer a
> ride!!
> (maybe we can coax Keith and others into it, too. Hint: Don't squat
> with your spurs on.)
>

Won't have to coax Sharon; she grew up riding. Even has her little black
hat. I wasn't nearly as interested in finding the hat as I was looking for
the crop.

****, she made me sit and watch the "Horse Whisperer" yesterday.

Hoff
--
The REAL powerlifter in the house: www.sassypl.com

Hoff
June 14th 04, 08:44 PM
"elzinator" > wrote in message
...
>
> So you had better condition your ass, David. For we'se goin' fer a
> ride!!
> (maybe we can coax Keith and others into it, too. Hint: Don't squat
> with your spurs on.)
>

Won't have to coax Sharon; she grew up riding. Even has her little black
hat. I wasn't nearly as interested in finding the hat as I was looking for
the crop.

****, she made me sit and watch the "Horse Whisperer" yesterday.

Hoff
--
The REAL powerlifter in the house: www.sassypl.com

Larry Hodges
June 14th 04, 10:02 PM
Hugh Beyer wrote:
> "David Cohen" > wrote in
> news:vt0zc.3708$Wr.2793 @newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net:
>
>> "elzinator" > wrote
>>> Kevin Kane wrote:
>>>> Guys,
>>>>
>>>> I appreciate the cynicism. However, you don't have to be jealous.
>>>> Results like MINE are possible if you remain a focused, dedicated
>>>> athlete like myself. Currently, I am writing my biography and
>>>> would be happy to share it with you guys once it's done to serve
>>>> as an insipirational reminder of the power of positive thought.
>>>> When I am having a podium finish at the 2006 Mr. Olympia, who will
>>>> be laughing ? Heh heh heh
>>>>
>>>> I can't wait. I am willing to sign autographs for those who are
>>>> interested. Also, for interested fans, I have my own mailing list
>>>> to keep you all up to date on my wordly adventures, physique
>>>> evolution and general butt kicking activities.
>>>>
>>>> P.S. Thanks for all the fan mail. For those who don't have
>>>> Internet, please mail to the address in Contact info with a self
>>>> addressed stamp and I'll be sure to get back to you when my
>>>> gruelling schedule permits me a modicum of free time.
>>
>>> This guy has to be a Troll.
>>
>> Let's hope so.
>>
>> Pretty elaborate trolling. Web page with pics of a little skinny guy.
>
> At least all the pics are of the same guy.
>
> I hate to say it, but I think he's 100% genuine. No need to say
> genuine *what*.
>
> And being self-centered is an asset in his chosen field.
>
> Hugh

Why is it that guys like this are arogant asses? What woman could stand to
be around them when they are so full of themselves? Maybe that's why most
are *gay as *****.

--
-Larry

Larry Hodges
June 14th 04, 10:02 PM
Hugh Beyer wrote:
> "David Cohen" > wrote in
> news:vt0zc.3708$Wr.2793 @newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net:
>
>> "elzinator" > wrote
>>> Kevin Kane wrote:
>>>> Guys,
>>>>
>>>> I appreciate the cynicism. However, you don't have to be jealous.
>>>> Results like MINE are possible if you remain a focused, dedicated
>>>> athlete like myself. Currently, I am writing my biography and
>>>> would be happy to share it with you guys once it's done to serve
>>>> as an insipirational reminder of the power of positive thought.
>>>> When I am having a podium finish at the 2006 Mr. Olympia, who will
>>>> be laughing ? Heh heh heh
>>>>
>>>> I can't wait. I am willing to sign autographs for those who are
>>>> interested. Also, for interested fans, I have my own mailing list
>>>> to keep you all up to date on my wordly adventures, physique
>>>> evolution and general butt kicking activities.
>>>>
>>>> P.S. Thanks for all the fan mail. For those who don't have
>>>> Internet, please mail to the address in Contact info with a self
>>>> addressed stamp and I'll be sure to get back to you when my
>>>> gruelling schedule permits me a modicum of free time.
>>
>>> This guy has to be a Troll.
>>
>> Let's hope so.
>>
>> Pretty elaborate trolling. Web page with pics of a little skinny guy.
>
> At least all the pics are of the same guy.
>
> I hate to say it, but I think he's 100% genuine. No need to say
> genuine *what*.
>
> And being self-centered is an asset in his chosen field.
>
> Hugh

Why is it that guys like this are arogant asses? What woman could stand to
be around them when they are so full of themselves? Maybe that's why most
are *gay as *****.

--
-Larry

Larry Hodges
June 14th 04, 10:07 PM
David Cohen wrote:
> "elzinator" > wrote
>>
>> BTW, ever do any SouthWest pattern quilts? I hate the commercial ones
>> (guady).
>
> Southwest pattern quilts reminded me of horse blankets, which reminded
> me: Samantha recently did a one week horse camp, and now she loves
> riding. So, since I can't have her knowing stuff that I don't, I'm
> gonna' take some riding lessons, too. Any helpful hints you'd like to
> share? My favorite aspect of interacting with dogs is knowing dog
> language, and being able to understand and "speak" to them. Is that
> kind of communication possible with horses? How best to go about
> achieving it?
>
> David

Southwestern pattern quilts reminded me of horse blankets, which reminded me
of horse *camp*, which reminded me of my cast iron cookware. Anybody else
here use Dutch ovens to cook? Any recipes?
--
-Larry

Larry Hodges
June 14th 04, 10:07 PM
David Cohen wrote:
> "elzinator" > wrote
>>
>> BTW, ever do any SouthWest pattern quilts? I hate the commercial ones
>> (guady).
>
> Southwest pattern quilts reminded me of horse blankets, which reminded
> me: Samantha recently did a one week horse camp, and now she loves
> riding. So, since I can't have her knowing stuff that I don't, I'm
> gonna' take some riding lessons, too. Any helpful hints you'd like to
> share? My favorite aspect of interacting with dogs is knowing dog
> language, and being able to understand and "speak" to them. Is that
> kind of communication possible with horses? How best to go about
> achieving it?
>
> David

Southwestern pattern quilts reminded me of horse blankets, which reminded me
of horse *camp*, which reminded me of my cast iron cookware. Anybody else
here use Dutch ovens to cook? Any recipes?
--
-Larry

elzinator
June 15th 04, 01:08 AM
On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 16:57:22 GMT, David Cohen wrote:
>
>"Art S" > wrote
>> "elzinator" > wrote > >
>> > Hey, if I recall, there is a riding stable near you. I looked into
>it
>> > a few years ago when I met up with a crew of Internet
>weightlifters.
>> > If you have time off, we can all go for a ride :)
>> > (I plan on taking my vacation during that time, so I have a week
>to
>> > play)
>> >
>> Probably several.
>>
>> One of my coworkers bought a horse for his daughter; she is taking
>> lessons at a nearby stable. We visited it during lunch one day.
>Also,
>> when I was looking for a house, one of the places was in a block of
>> homes with 1/2+ acre yards, with the center of the block (accessable
>> to all on the block) being a riding track. I've heard of others.
>>
>> > So you had better condition your ass, David. For we'se goin' fer a
>> > ride!!
>>
>> How does one condition one's ass for riding without riding?
>>
>> > (maybe we can coax Keith and others into it, too. Hint: Don't
>squat
>> > with your spurs on.)
>> >
>> Well, at least not ass-to-grass squats.
>
>Aaaarrggg..this is VERY frustrating! First it was MY posts that Elzi
>wasn't seeing. Now I'm missing some of hers!
>
>Thank you, Art, for responding to Elzi's answer, so I could she that
>she did, then I went to Google Groups and found her post.
>
>Elzi, thanks for the long, detailed answer. That's one of the parts of
>a new "hobby" that I really love: reading lots of books and stuff.
>
>We'll definitely go riding in December, before or after the meet.
>There's probably riding stables in Laughlin, too. I'll look in to it.
>Art's gonna' ride, too. (the official MFW Horseback Photographer!)

It's a done deal. Would you team up with me to help secure a stable?
If I recall from back in 2000, there was a stable or two near
Laughlin. If we get enough riders, we can do a stringline trail ride
somewhere. Shall we see who else we can coax into this adventure?

Awesome!

BTW, do you want that Saslow pdf?


"I am the monster." - Riddick

elzinator
June 15th 04, 01:08 AM
On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 16:57:22 GMT, David Cohen wrote:
>
>"Art S" > wrote
>> "elzinator" > wrote > >
>> > Hey, if I recall, there is a riding stable near you. I looked into
>it
>> > a few years ago when I met up with a crew of Internet
>weightlifters.
>> > If you have time off, we can all go for a ride :)
>> > (I plan on taking my vacation during that time, so I have a week
>to
>> > play)
>> >
>> Probably several.
>>
>> One of my coworkers bought a horse for his daughter; she is taking
>> lessons at a nearby stable. We visited it during lunch one day.
>Also,
>> when I was looking for a house, one of the places was in a block of
>> homes with 1/2+ acre yards, with the center of the block (accessable
>> to all on the block) being a riding track. I've heard of others.
>>
>> > So you had better condition your ass, David. For we'se goin' fer a
>> > ride!!
>>
>> How does one condition one's ass for riding without riding?
>>
>> > (maybe we can coax Keith and others into it, too. Hint: Don't
>squat
>> > with your spurs on.)
>> >
>> Well, at least not ass-to-grass squats.
>
>Aaaarrggg..this is VERY frustrating! First it was MY posts that Elzi
>wasn't seeing. Now I'm missing some of hers!
>
>Thank you, Art, for responding to Elzi's answer, so I could she that
>she did, then I went to Google Groups and found her post.
>
>Elzi, thanks for the long, detailed answer. That's one of the parts of
>a new "hobby" that I really love: reading lots of books and stuff.
>
>We'll definitely go riding in December, before or after the meet.
>There's probably riding stables in Laughlin, too. I'll look in to it.
>Art's gonna' ride, too. (the official MFW Horseback Photographer!)

It's a done deal. Would you team up with me to help secure a stable?
If I recall from back in 2000, there was a stable or two near
Laughlin. If we get enough riders, we can do a stringline trail ride
somewhere. Shall we see who else we can coax into this adventure?

Awesome!

BTW, do you want that Saslow pdf?


"I am the monster." - Riddick

elzinator
June 15th 04, 01:09 AM
On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 15:44:06 -0400, Hoff wrote:
>"elzinator" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> So you had better condition your ass, David. For we'se goin' fer a
>> ride!!
>> (maybe we can coax Keith and others into it, too. Hint: Don't squat
>> with your spurs on.)
>>
>
>Won't have to coax Sharon; she grew up riding. Even has her little black
>hat. I wasn't nearly as interested in finding the hat as I was looking for
>the crop.
>
>****, she made me sit and watch the "Horse Whisperer" yesterday.

So you two want to join in?? The more the merrier!!


"I am the monster." - Riddick

elzinator
June 15th 04, 01:09 AM
On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 15:44:06 -0400, Hoff wrote:
>"elzinator" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> So you had better condition your ass, David. For we'se goin' fer a
>> ride!!
>> (maybe we can coax Keith and others into it, too. Hint: Don't squat
>> with your spurs on.)
>>
>
>Won't have to coax Sharon; she grew up riding. Even has her little black
>hat. I wasn't nearly as interested in finding the hat as I was looking for
>the crop.
>
>****, she made me sit and watch the "Horse Whisperer" yesterday.

So you two want to join in?? The more the merrier!!


"I am the monster." - Riddick

elzinator
June 15th 04, 01:11 AM
On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 14:07:24 -0700, Larry Hodges wrote:
>David Cohen wrote:
>> "elzinator" > wrote
>>>
>>> BTW, ever do any SouthWest pattern quilts? I hate the commercial ones
>>> (guady).
>>
>> Southwest pattern quilts reminded me of horse blankets, which reminded
>> me: Samantha recently did a one week horse camp, and now she loves
>> riding. So, since I can't have her knowing stuff that I don't, I'm
>> gonna' take some riding lessons, too. Any helpful hints you'd like to
>> share? My favorite aspect of interacting with dogs is knowing dog
>> language, and being able to understand and "speak" to them. Is that
>> kind of communication possible with horses? How best to go about
>> achieving it?
>>
>> David
>
>Southwestern pattern quilts reminded me of horse blankets, which reminded me
>of horse *camp*, which reminded me of my cast iron cookware. Anybody else
>here use Dutch ovens to cook? Any recipes?

Mine's enamel coated, but it's still a cast iron stove top 'oven.' I
use it in winters for stews and roast beef. My ex used it to make
bread occasionally.


"I am the monster." - Riddick

elzinator
June 15th 04, 01:11 AM
On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 14:07:24 -0700, Larry Hodges wrote:
>David Cohen wrote:
>> "elzinator" > wrote
>>>
>>> BTW, ever do any SouthWest pattern quilts? I hate the commercial ones
>>> (guady).
>>
>> Southwest pattern quilts reminded me of horse blankets, which reminded
>> me: Samantha recently did a one week horse camp, and now she loves
>> riding. So, since I can't have her knowing stuff that I don't, I'm
>> gonna' take some riding lessons, too. Any helpful hints you'd like to
>> share? My favorite aspect of interacting with dogs is knowing dog
>> language, and being able to understand and "speak" to them. Is that
>> kind of communication possible with horses? How best to go about
>> achieving it?
>>
>> David
>
>Southwestern pattern quilts reminded me of horse blankets, which reminded me
>of horse *camp*, which reminded me of my cast iron cookware. Anybody else
>here use Dutch ovens to cook? Any recipes?

Mine's enamel coated, but it's still a cast iron stove top 'oven.' I
use it in winters for stews and roast beef. My ex used it to make
bread occasionally.


"I am the monster." - Riddick

Hoff
June 15th 04, 01:30 AM
"elzinator" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 15:44:06 -0400, Hoff wrote:
> >"elzinator" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>
> >> So you had better condition your ass, David. For we'se goin' fer a
> >> ride!!
> >> (maybe we can coax Keith and others into it, too. Hint: Don't squat
> >> with your spurs on.)
> >>
> >
> >Won't have to coax Sharon; she grew up riding. Even has her little black
> >hat. I wasn't nearly as interested in finding the hat as I was looking
for
> >the crop.
> >
> >****, she made me sit and watch the "Horse Whisperer" yesterday.
>
> So you two want to join in?? The more the merrier!!
>

Sharon for sure.

I'll be there if they have "Comfort-Select" saddles.

Hoff

Hoff
June 15th 04, 01:30 AM
"elzinator" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 15:44:06 -0400, Hoff wrote:
> >"elzinator" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>
> >> So you had better condition your ass, David. For we'se goin' fer a
> >> ride!!
> >> (maybe we can coax Keith and others into it, too. Hint: Don't squat
> >> with your spurs on.)
> >>
> >
> >Won't have to coax Sharon; she grew up riding. Even has her little black
> >hat. I wasn't nearly as interested in finding the hat as I was looking
for
> >the crop.
> >
> >****, she made me sit and watch the "Horse Whisperer" yesterday.
>
> So you two want to join in?? The more the merrier!!
>

Sharon for sure.

I'll be there if they have "Comfort-Select" saddles.

Hoff

elzinator
June 15th 04, 02:07 AM
On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 20:30:37 -0400, Hoff wrote:
>"elzinator" > wrote in message
...
>> On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 15:44:06 -0400, Hoff wrote:
>> >"elzinator" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >>
>> >> So you had better condition your ass, David. For we'se goin' fer a
>> >> ride!!
>> >> (maybe we can coax Keith and others into it, too. Hint: Don't squat
>> >> with your spurs on.)
>> >>
>> >
>> >Won't have to coax Sharon; she grew up riding. Even has her little black
>> >hat. I wasn't nearly as interested in finding the hat as I was looking
>for
>> >the crop.
>> >
>> >****, she made me sit and watch the "Horse Whisperer" yesterday.
>>
>> So you two want to join in?? The more the merrier!!
>>
>
>Sharon for sure.

Cool. I'll add her to the list.

>I'll be there if they have "Comfort-Select" saddles.

The secret is to keep a 'soft' seat. i.e. relax your torso, low back
and glutes. Let the horse and its back move unrestricted underneath
you . Your seat is supposed to be an extension of the horses back,
tightening only to cue the horse to change leads, speed or stop. Other
than that, keep the glutes loose ( relaxed :) and you wont get sore.

When you tighten up, the horse is uncomfortable and responds by
hollowing its back, which makes for a bumpy ride: they can't collect
themselves underneath a hollow back. You get bumped, and they hurt
worse and it goes downhill from there.

When you can tighten one glute, keeping the other relaxed and the
horse responds by bending to the side, you know you have his
attention. (a good horse is trained to move away from pressure; a good
rider uses the seat to 'talk' to the horse).


"I am the monster." - Riddick

elzinator
June 15th 04, 02:07 AM
On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 20:30:37 -0400, Hoff wrote:
>"elzinator" > wrote in message
...
>> On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 15:44:06 -0400, Hoff wrote:
>> >"elzinator" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >>
>> >> So you had better condition your ass, David. For we'se goin' fer a
>> >> ride!!
>> >> (maybe we can coax Keith and others into it, too. Hint: Don't squat
>> >> with your spurs on.)
>> >>
>> >
>> >Won't have to coax Sharon; she grew up riding. Even has her little black
>> >hat. I wasn't nearly as interested in finding the hat as I was looking
>for
>> >the crop.
>> >
>> >****, she made me sit and watch the "Horse Whisperer" yesterday.
>>
>> So you two want to join in?? The more the merrier!!
>>
>
>Sharon for sure.

Cool. I'll add her to the list.

>I'll be there if they have "Comfort-Select" saddles.

The secret is to keep a 'soft' seat. i.e. relax your torso, low back
and glutes. Let the horse and its back move unrestricted underneath
you . Your seat is supposed to be an extension of the horses back,
tightening only to cue the horse to change leads, speed or stop. Other
than that, keep the glutes loose ( relaxed :) and you wont get sore.

When you tighten up, the horse is uncomfortable and responds by
hollowing its back, which makes for a bumpy ride: they can't collect
themselves underneath a hollow back. You get bumped, and they hurt
worse and it goes downhill from there.

When you can tighten one glute, keeping the other relaxed and the
horse responds by bending to the side, you know you have his
attention. (a good horse is trained to move away from pressure; a good
rider uses the seat to 'talk' to the horse).


"I am the monster." - Riddick

David Cohen
June 15th 04, 02:37 AM
"elzinator" > wrote
> David Cohen wrote:

> >Elzi, thanks for the long, detailed answer. That's one of the parts
of
> >a new "hobby" that I really love: reading lots of books and stuff.
> >
> >We'll definitely go riding in December, before or after the meet.
> >There's probably riding stables in Laughlin, too. I'll look in to
it.
> >Art's gonna' ride, too. (the official MFW Horseback Photographer!)
>
> It's a done deal. Would you team up with me to help secure a stable?
> If I recall from back in 2000, there was a stable or two near
> Laughlin. If we get enough riders, we can do a stringline trail ride
> somewhere. Shall we see who else we can coax into this adventure?

Absotively!
>
> Awesome!
>
> BTW, do you want that Saslow pdf?

Yes, please.

David

David Cohen
June 15th 04, 02:37 AM
"elzinator" > wrote
> David Cohen wrote:

> >Elzi, thanks for the long, detailed answer. That's one of the parts
of
> >a new "hobby" that I really love: reading lots of books and stuff.
> >
> >We'll definitely go riding in December, before or after the meet.
> >There's probably riding stables in Laughlin, too. I'll look in to
it.
> >Art's gonna' ride, too. (the official MFW Horseback Photographer!)
>
> It's a done deal. Would you team up with me to help secure a stable?
> If I recall from back in 2000, there was a stable or two near
> Laughlin. If we get enough riders, we can do a stringline trail ride
> somewhere. Shall we see who else we can coax into this adventure?

Absotively!
>
> Awesome!
>
> BTW, do you want that Saslow pdf?

Yes, please.

David

David Cohen
June 15th 04, 02:40 AM
"elzinator" > wrote
> Hoff wrote:
> >"elzinator" > wrote
> >> Hoff wrote:
> >> >"elzinator" > wrote
> >> >> So you had better condition your ass, David. For we'se goin'
fer a
> >> >> ride!!
> >> >> (maybe we can coax Keith and others into it, too. Hint: Don't
squat
> >> >> with your spurs on.)
> >> >>
> >> >Won't have to coax Sharon; she grew up riding. Even has her
little black
> >> >hat. I wasn't nearly as interested in finding the hat as I was
looking
> >for
> >> >the crop.
> >> >
> >> >****, she made me sit and watch the "Horse Whisperer" yesterday.
> >>
> >> So you two want to join in?? The more the merrier!!
> >>
> >Sharon for sure.
>
> Cool. I'll add her to the list.
>
> >I'll be there if they have "Comfort-Select" saddles.
>
> The secret is to keep a 'soft' seat. i.e. relax your torso, low back
> and glutes. Let the horse and its back move unrestricted underneath
> you . Your seat is supposed to be an extension of the horses back,
> tightening only to cue the horse to change leads, speed or stop.
Other
> than that, keep the glutes loose ( relaxed :) and you wont get sore.
>
> When you tighten up, the horse is uncomfortable and responds by
> hollowing its back, which makes for a bumpy ride: they can't collect
> themselves underneath a hollow back. You get bumped, and they hurt
> worse and it goes downhill from there.
>
> When you can tighten one glute, keeping the other relaxed and the
> horse responds by bending to the side, you know you have his
> attention. (a good horse is trained to move away from pressure; a
good
> rider uses the seat to 'talk' to the horse).

So, I guess naked riding is out for Hoff and me...getting whacked all
over the back would confuse the horse :)

David

David Cohen
June 15th 04, 02:40 AM
"elzinator" > wrote
> Hoff wrote:
> >"elzinator" > wrote
> >> Hoff wrote:
> >> >"elzinator" > wrote
> >> >> So you had better condition your ass, David. For we'se goin'
fer a
> >> >> ride!!
> >> >> (maybe we can coax Keith and others into it, too. Hint: Don't
squat
> >> >> with your spurs on.)
> >> >>
> >> >Won't have to coax Sharon; she grew up riding. Even has her
little black
> >> >hat. I wasn't nearly as interested in finding the hat as I was
looking
> >for
> >> >the crop.
> >> >
> >> >****, she made me sit and watch the "Horse Whisperer" yesterday.
> >>
> >> So you two want to join in?? The more the merrier!!
> >>
> >Sharon for sure.
>
> Cool. I'll add her to the list.
>
> >I'll be there if they have "Comfort-Select" saddles.
>
> The secret is to keep a 'soft' seat. i.e. relax your torso, low back
> and glutes. Let the horse and its back move unrestricted underneath
> you . Your seat is supposed to be an extension of the horses back,
> tightening only to cue the horse to change leads, speed or stop.
Other
> than that, keep the glutes loose ( relaxed :) and you wont get sore.
>
> When you tighten up, the horse is uncomfortable and responds by
> hollowing its back, which makes for a bumpy ride: they can't collect
> themselves underneath a hollow back. You get bumped, and they hurt
> worse and it goes downhill from there.
>
> When you can tighten one glute, keeping the other relaxed and the
> horse responds by bending to the side, you know you have his
> attention. (a good horse is trained to move away from pressure; a
good
> rider uses the seat to 'talk' to the horse).

So, I guess naked riding is out for Hoff and me...getting whacked all
over the back would confuse the horse :)

David

Lee Michaels
June 15th 04, 04:31 AM
"elzinator" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 20:30:37 -0400, Hoff wrote:
> >"elzinator" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 15:44:06 -0400, Hoff wrote:
> >> >"elzinator" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> >>
> >> >> So you had better condition your ass, David. For we'se goin' fer a
> >> >> ride!!
> >> >> (maybe we can coax Keith and others into it, too. Hint: Don't squat
> >> >> with your spurs on.)
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >Won't have to coax Sharon; she grew up riding. Even has her little
black
> >> >hat. I wasn't nearly as interested in finding the hat as I was
looking
> >for
> >> >the crop.
> >> >
> >> >****, she made me sit and watch the "Horse Whisperer" yesterday.
> >>
> >> So you two want to join in?? The more the merrier!!
> >>
> >
> >Sharon for sure.
>
> Cool. I'll add her to the list.
>
> >I'll be there if they have "Comfort-Select" saddles.
>
> The secret is to keep a 'soft' seat. i.e. relax your torso, low back
> and glutes. Let the horse and its back move unrestricted underneath
> you . Your seat is supposed to be an extension of the horses back,
> tightening only to cue the horse to change leads, speed or stop. Other
> than that, keep the glutes loose ( relaxed :) and you wont get sore.
>
> When you tighten up, the horse is uncomfortable and responds by
> hollowing its back, which makes for a bumpy ride: they can't collect
> themselves underneath a hollow back. You get bumped, and they hurt
> worse and it goes downhill from there.
>
> When you can tighten one glute, keeping the other relaxed and the
> horse responds by bending to the side, you know you have his
> attention. (a good horse is trained to move away from pressure; a good
> rider uses the seat to 'talk' to the horse).
>

Yes grasshopper. This is known as the Elzi Butt Talking Way. It is a secret
method that various horse whisperers use to "talk" to the horse. Think of
it as glute based nonverbal communication.

Lee Michaels
June 15th 04, 04:31 AM
"elzinator" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 20:30:37 -0400, Hoff wrote:
> >"elzinator" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 15:44:06 -0400, Hoff wrote:
> >> >"elzinator" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> >>
> >> >> So you had better condition your ass, David. For we'se goin' fer a
> >> >> ride!!
> >> >> (maybe we can coax Keith and others into it, too. Hint: Don't squat
> >> >> with your spurs on.)
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >Won't have to coax Sharon; she grew up riding. Even has her little
black
> >> >hat. I wasn't nearly as interested in finding the hat as I was
looking
> >for
> >> >the crop.
> >> >
> >> >****, she made me sit and watch the "Horse Whisperer" yesterday.
> >>
> >> So you two want to join in?? The more the merrier!!
> >>
> >
> >Sharon for sure.
>
> Cool. I'll add her to the list.
>
> >I'll be there if they have "Comfort-Select" saddles.
>
> The secret is to keep a 'soft' seat. i.e. relax your torso, low back
> and glutes. Let the horse and its back move unrestricted underneath
> you . Your seat is supposed to be an extension of the horses back,
> tightening only to cue the horse to change leads, speed or stop. Other
> than that, keep the glutes loose ( relaxed :) and you wont get sore.
>
> When you tighten up, the horse is uncomfortable and responds by
> hollowing its back, which makes for a bumpy ride: they can't collect
> themselves underneath a hollow back. You get bumped, and they hurt
> worse and it goes downhill from there.
>
> When you can tighten one glute, keeping the other relaxed and the
> horse responds by bending to the side, you know you have his
> attention. (a good horse is trained to move away from pressure; a good
> rider uses the seat to 'talk' to the horse).
>

Yes grasshopper. This is known as the Elzi Butt Talking Way. It is a secret
method that various horse whisperers use to "talk" to the horse. Think of
it as glute based nonverbal communication.

Art S
June 15th 04, 06:44 AM
"David Cohen" > wrote in message
k.net...
>
>
> We'll definitely go riding in December, before or after the meet.
> There's probably riding stables in Laughlin, too. I'll look in to it.
> Art's gonna' ride, too. (the official MFW Horseback Photographer!)
>
> David

I am?

<checking calendar>

Uh - when?

And is anyone going to 'splain how I can condition my rear
for riding without actually riding? Or is this ride you're planning
going to require some 'sperience?

Art

Art S
June 15th 04, 06:44 AM
"David Cohen" > wrote in message
k.net...
>
>
> We'll definitely go riding in December, before or after the meet.
> There's probably riding stables in Laughlin, too. I'll look in to it.
> Art's gonna' ride, too. (the official MFW Horseback Photographer!)
>
> David

I am?

<checking calendar>

Uh - when?

And is anyone going to 'splain how I can condition my rear
for riding without actually riding? Or is this ride you're planning
going to require some 'sperience?

Art

John HUDSON
June 15th 04, 11:31 AM
On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 20:07:13 -0500, elzinator
> wrote:

>On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 20:30:37 -0400, Hoff wrote:
>>"elzinator" > wrote in message
...
>>> On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 15:44:06 -0400, Hoff wrote:
>>> >"elzinator" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>> >>
>>> >> So you had better condition your ass, David. For we'se goin' fer a
>>> >> ride!!
>>> >> (maybe we can coax Keith and others into it, too. Hint: Don't squat
>>> >> with your spurs on.)
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >Won't have to coax Sharon; she grew up riding. Even has her little black
>>> >hat. I wasn't nearly as interested in finding the hat as I was looking
>>for
>>> >the crop.
>>> >
>>> >****, she made me sit and watch the "Horse Whisperer" yesterday.
>>>
>>> So you two want to join in?? The more the merrier!!
>>>
>>
>>Sharon for sure.
>
>Cool. I'll add her to the list.
>
>>I'll be there if they have "Comfort-Select" saddles.
>
>The secret is to keep a 'soft' seat. i.e. relax your torso, low back
>and glutes. Let the horse and its back move unrestricted underneath
>you . Your seat is supposed to be an extension of the horses back,
>tightening only to cue the horse to change leads, speed or stop. Other
>than that, keep the glutes loose ( relaxed :) and you wont get sore.
>
>When you tighten up, the horse is uncomfortable and responds by
>hollowing its back, which makes for a bumpy ride: they can't collect
>themselves underneath a hollow back. You get bumped, and they hurt
>worse and it goes downhill from there.
>
>When you can tighten one glute, keeping the other relaxed and the
>horse responds by bending to the side, you know you have his
>attention. (a good horse is trained to move away from pressure; a good
>rider uses the seat to 'talk' to the horse).

Elzi, you really ought to stick at what you do best, which isn't
teaching people to ride horses.

The very idea of conveying your instructions to your mount via the
cheeks of your arse is absolutely hysterically comical; how the hell
do you expect a horse to feel your arse contracting through the
thickness of a ruddy great leather saddle? I suggest all of you
reading this, to try and do what Elzi suggested on your office chair,
and see how ridiculous it is!! ;o)

Schooled horses will respond to pressure from thighs, knees, calves
and feet (heels or toes), as they will to disposition of body weight,
and control of the reins on the horse's mouth, nose and neck as in
side-reining.

A "good seat" is the description given to a rider who sits well in the
saddle and is competent and comfortable.

If those non-riders who want to learn in order to better enjoy the
experience, they would do well to avoid the riding schools where they
will spend endless hours plodding round a sand school ring learning to
walk, trot and control reluctant school horses that have no interest -
and nor will they.

The better way for any person who is moderately athletic, with a
little flair and some courage, is to find a chum with horses and go
out with him/her. Then just sit the horse and put it through its
paces, on a lead rein to start if necessary; it's really not that
difficult. In this sort of environment progress is made very quickly
and is a great deal of fun.

It is absolutely possible that in one morning, a determined novice can
achieve all paces through walking and trotting to canter and easy
gallop, and even over modest obstructions or jumps. After all, it's
the horse that does all the work, you just have to learn how to stay
in the saddle.

Yes! You will come off, but anyone who sits a horse and doesn't
expect to come off is a fool. But you will find it the most
exhilarating experience and the greatest fun.

And avoid "trail riding" like the plague, there can be nothing more
boring than a long line of 'school horses' following each other in a
line round a known route. Go for the open spaces and ride as you feel;
free and easy.

Enjoy!! ;o)

John HUDSON
June 15th 04, 11:31 AM
On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 20:07:13 -0500, elzinator
> wrote:

>On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 20:30:37 -0400, Hoff wrote:
>>"elzinator" > wrote in message
...
>>> On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 15:44:06 -0400, Hoff wrote:
>>> >"elzinator" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>> >>
>>> >> So you had better condition your ass, David. For we'se goin' fer a
>>> >> ride!!
>>> >> (maybe we can coax Keith and others into it, too. Hint: Don't squat
>>> >> with your spurs on.)
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >Won't have to coax Sharon; she grew up riding. Even has her little black
>>> >hat. I wasn't nearly as interested in finding the hat as I was looking
>>for
>>> >the crop.
>>> >
>>> >****, she made me sit and watch the "Horse Whisperer" yesterday.
>>>
>>> So you two want to join in?? The more the merrier!!
>>>
>>
>>Sharon for sure.
>
>Cool. I'll add her to the list.
>
>>I'll be there if they have "Comfort-Select" saddles.
>
>The secret is to keep a 'soft' seat. i.e. relax your torso, low back
>and glutes. Let the horse and its back move unrestricted underneath
>you . Your seat is supposed to be an extension of the horses back,
>tightening only to cue the horse to change leads, speed or stop. Other
>than that, keep the glutes loose ( relaxed :) and you wont get sore.
>
>When you tighten up, the horse is uncomfortable and responds by
>hollowing its back, which makes for a bumpy ride: they can't collect
>themselves underneath a hollow back. You get bumped, and they hurt
>worse and it goes downhill from there.
>
>When you can tighten one glute, keeping the other relaxed and the
>horse responds by bending to the side, you know you have his
>attention. (a good horse is trained to move away from pressure; a good
>rider uses the seat to 'talk' to the horse).

Elzi, you really ought to stick at what you do best, which isn't
teaching people to ride horses.

The very idea of conveying your instructions to your mount via the
cheeks of your arse is absolutely hysterically comical; how the hell
do you expect a horse to feel your arse contracting through the
thickness of a ruddy great leather saddle? I suggest all of you
reading this, to try and do what Elzi suggested on your office chair,
and see how ridiculous it is!! ;o)

Schooled horses will respond to pressure from thighs, knees, calves
and feet (heels or toes), as they will to disposition of body weight,
and control of the reins on the horse's mouth, nose and neck as in
side-reining.

A "good seat" is the description given to a rider who sits well in the
saddle and is competent and comfortable.

If those non-riders who want to learn in order to better enjoy the
experience, they would do well to avoid the riding schools where they
will spend endless hours plodding round a sand school ring learning to
walk, trot and control reluctant school horses that have no interest -
and nor will they.

The better way for any person who is moderately athletic, with a
little flair and some courage, is to find a chum with horses and go
out with him/her. Then just sit the horse and put it through its
paces, on a lead rein to start if necessary; it's really not that
difficult. In this sort of environment progress is made very quickly
and is a great deal of fun.

It is absolutely possible that in one morning, a determined novice can
achieve all paces through walking and trotting to canter and easy
gallop, and even over modest obstructions or jumps. After all, it's
the horse that does all the work, you just have to learn how to stay
in the saddle.

Yes! You will come off, but anyone who sits a horse and doesn't
expect to come off is a fool. But you will find it the most
exhilarating experience and the greatest fun.

And avoid "trail riding" like the plague, there can be nothing more
boring than a long line of 'school horses' following each other in a
line round a known route. Go for the open spaces and ride as you feel;
free and easy.

Enjoy!! ;o)

David Cohen
June 15th 04, 11:38 AM
"Art S" > wrote
> "David Cohen" > wrote > >
> >
> > We'll definitely go riding in December, before or after the meet.
> > There's probably riding stables in Laughlin, too. I'll look in to
it.
> > Art's gonna' ride, too. (the official MFW Horseback Photographer!)
> >
> > David
>
> I am?
>
> <checking calendar>
>
> Uh - when?

December.
>
> And is anyone going to 'splain how I can condition my rear
> for riding without actually riding? Or is this ride you're planning
> going to require some 'sperience?

Beats me. I'll let you know after I take the lessons.

David

David Cohen
June 15th 04, 11:38 AM
"Art S" > wrote
> "David Cohen" > wrote > >
> >
> > We'll definitely go riding in December, before or after the meet.
> > There's probably riding stables in Laughlin, too. I'll look in to
it.
> > Art's gonna' ride, too. (the official MFW Horseback Photographer!)
> >
> > David
>
> I am?
>
> <checking calendar>
>
> Uh - when?

December.
>
> And is anyone going to 'splain how I can condition my rear
> for riding without actually riding? Or is this ride you're planning
> going to require some 'sperience?

Beats me. I'll let you know after I take the lessons.

David

Hoff
June 15th 04, 12:12 PM
"David Cohen" > wrote in message
.net...
>
> "elzinator" > wrote
> > Hoff wrote:
> > >"elzinator" > wrote
> > >> Hoff wrote:
> > >> >"elzinator" > wrote
> > >> >> So you had better condition your ass, David. For we'se goin'
> fer a
> > >> >> ride!!
> > >> >> (maybe we can coax Keith and others into it, too. Hint: Don't
> squat
> > >> >> with your spurs on.)
> > >> >>
> > >> >Won't have to coax Sharon; she grew up riding. Even has her
> little black
> > >> >hat. I wasn't nearly as interested in finding the hat as I was
> looking
> > >for
> > >> >the crop.
> > >> >
> > >> >****, she made me sit and watch the "Horse Whisperer" yesterday.
> > >>
> > >> So you two want to join in?? The more the merrier!!
> > >>
> > >Sharon for sure.
> >
> > Cool. I'll add her to the list.
> >
> > >I'll be there if they have "Comfort-Select" saddles.
> >
> > The secret is to keep a 'soft' seat. i.e. relax your torso, low back
> > and glutes. Let the horse and its back move unrestricted underneath
> > you . Your seat is supposed to be an extension of the horses back,
> > tightening only to cue the horse to change leads, speed or stop.
> Other
> > than that, keep the glutes loose ( relaxed :) and you wont get sore.
> >
> > When you tighten up, the horse is uncomfortable and responds by
> > hollowing its back, which makes for a bumpy ride: they can't collect
> > themselves underneath a hollow back. You get bumped, and they hurt
> > worse and it goes downhill from there.
> >
> > When you can tighten one glute, keeping the other relaxed and the
> > horse responds by bending to the side, you know you have his
> > attention. (a good horse is trained to move away from pressure; a
> good
> > rider uses the seat to 'talk' to the horse).
>
> So, I guess naked riding is out for Hoff and me...getting whacked all
> over the back would confuse the horse :)

The hell with that. Can you wear a cup to ride?

Hoff
--
Peanuts!! Get yer Peanuts!! http://irongarm.org/peanutgallery2.htm

Hoff
June 15th 04, 12:12 PM
"David Cohen" > wrote in message
.net...
>
> "elzinator" > wrote
> > Hoff wrote:
> > >"elzinator" > wrote
> > >> Hoff wrote:
> > >> >"elzinator" > wrote
> > >> >> So you had better condition your ass, David. For we'se goin'
> fer a
> > >> >> ride!!
> > >> >> (maybe we can coax Keith and others into it, too. Hint: Don't
> squat
> > >> >> with your spurs on.)
> > >> >>
> > >> >Won't have to coax Sharon; she grew up riding. Even has her
> little black
> > >> >hat. I wasn't nearly as interested in finding the hat as I was
> looking
> > >for
> > >> >the crop.
> > >> >
> > >> >****, she made me sit and watch the "Horse Whisperer" yesterday.
> > >>
> > >> So you two want to join in?? The more the merrier!!
> > >>
> > >Sharon for sure.
> >
> > Cool. I'll add her to the list.
> >
> > >I'll be there if they have "Comfort-Select" saddles.
> >
> > The secret is to keep a 'soft' seat. i.e. relax your torso, low back
> > and glutes. Let the horse and its back move unrestricted underneath
> > you . Your seat is supposed to be an extension of the horses back,
> > tightening only to cue the horse to change leads, speed or stop.
> Other
> > than that, keep the glutes loose ( relaxed :) and you wont get sore.
> >
> > When you tighten up, the horse is uncomfortable and responds by
> > hollowing its back, which makes for a bumpy ride: they can't collect
> > themselves underneath a hollow back. You get bumped, and they hurt
> > worse and it goes downhill from there.
> >
> > When you can tighten one glute, keeping the other relaxed and the
> > horse responds by bending to the side, you know you have his
> > attention. (a good horse is trained to move away from pressure; a
> good
> > rider uses the seat to 'talk' to the horse).
>
> So, I guess naked riding is out for Hoff and me...getting whacked all
> over the back would confuse the horse :)

The hell with that. Can you wear a cup to ride?

Hoff
--
Peanuts!! Get yer Peanuts!! http://irongarm.org/peanutgallery2.htm

Hoff
June 15th 04, 12:17 PM
"elzinator" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 20:30:37 -0400, Hoff wrote:
> >"elzinator" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 15:44:06 -0400, Hoff wrote:
> >> >"elzinator" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> >>
> >> >> So you had better condition your ass, David. For we'se goin' fer a
> >> >> ride!!
> >> >> (maybe we can coax Keith and others into it, too. Hint: Don't squat
> >> >> with your spurs on.)
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >Won't have to coax Sharon; she grew up riding. Even has her little
black
> >> >hat. I wasn't nearly as interested in finding the hat as I was
looking
> >for
> >> >the crop.
> >> >
> >> >****, she made me sit and watch the "Horse Whisperer" yesterday.
> >>
> >> So you two want to join in?? The more the merrier!!
> >>
> >
> >Sharon for sure.
>
> Cool. I'll add her to the list.
>
> >I'll be there if they have "Comfort-Select" saddles.
>
> The secret is to keep a 'soft' seat. i.e. relax your torso, low back
> and glutes. Let the horse and its back move unrestricted underneath
> you . Your seat is supposed to be an extension of the horses back,
> tightening only to cue the horse to change leads, speed or stop. Other
> than that, keep the glutes loose ( relaxed :) and you wont get sore.
>
> When you tighten up, the horse is uncomfortable and responds by
> hollowing its back, which makes for a bumpy ride: they can't collect
> themselves underneath a hollow back. You get bumped, and they hurt
> worse and it goes downhill from there.
>
> When you can tighten one glute, keeping the other relaxed and the
> horse responds by bending to the side, you know you have his
> attention. (a good horse is trained to move away from pressure; a good
> rider uses the seat to 'talk' to the horse).
>

Yeah, yeah. I've been getting these "lessons" from Sharon, too.

Y'all make it sound soooooo easy. Until I'm breaking I'm tailbone,
wondering what in the hell is so *fun* about this ;)

It's actually been a couple of years since she's ridden. Her parents sold
their farm, along with their remaining horses. I know growing up she did
the whole competition thing (dressage (sp??)), along with working the horses
her dad had at the track. I promised I'd go riding with her this summer, so
I'll at least have a little practice before December.

Hoff
--
Peanuts!! Get yer Peanuts!! http://irongarm.org/peanutgallery2.htm

Hoff
June 15th 04, 12:17 PM
"elzinator" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 20:30:37 -0400, Hoff wrote:
> >"elzinator" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 15:44:06 -0400, Hoff wrote:
> >> >"elzinator" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> >>
> >> >> So you had better condition your ass, David. For we'se goin' fer a
> >> >> ride!!
> >> >> (maybe we can coax Keith and others into it, too. Hint: Don't squat
> >> >> with your spurs on.)
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >Won't have to coax Sharon; she grew up riding. Even has her little
black
> >> >hat. I wasn't nearly as interested in finding the hat as I was
looking
> >for
> >> >the crop.
> >> >
> >> >****, she made me sit and watch the "Horse Whisperer" yesterday.
> >>
> >> So you two want to join in?? The more the merrier!!
> >>
> >
> >Sharon for sure.
>
> Cool. I'll add her to the list.
>
> >I'll be there if they have "Comfort-Select" saddles.
>
> The secret is to keep a 'soft' seat. i.e. relax your torso, low back
> and glutes. Let the horse and its back move unrestricted underneath
> you . Your seat is supposed to be an extension of the horses back,
> tightening only to cue the horse to change leads, speed or stop. Other
> than that, keep the glutes loose ( relaxed :) and you wont get sore.
>
> When you tighten up, the horse is uncomfortable and responds by
> hollowing its back, which makes for a bumpy ride: they can't collect
> themselves underneath a hollow back. You get bumped, and they hurt
> worse and it goes downhill from there.
>
> When you can tighten one glute, keeping the other relaxed and the
> horse responds by bending to the side, you know you have his
> attention. (a good horse is trained to move away from pressure; a good
> rider uses the seat to 'talk' to the horse).
>

Yeah, yeah. I've been getting these "lessons" from Sharon, too.

Y'all make it sound soooooo easy. Until I'm breaking I'm tailbone,
wondering what in the hell is so *fun* about this ;)

It's actually been a couple of years since she's ridden. Her parents sold
their farm, along with their remaining horses. I know growing up she did
the whole competition thing (dressage (sp??)), along with working the horses
her dad had at the track. I promised I'd go riding with her this summer, so
I'll at least have a little practice before December.

Hoff
--
Peanuts!! Get yer Peanuts!! http://irongarm.org/peanutgallery2.htm

Elzinator
June 15th 04, 01:25 PM
"Art S" > wrote in message >...
> "David Cohen" > wrote in message
> k.net...
> >
> >
> > We'll definitely go riding in December, before or after the meet.
> > There's probably riding stables in Laughlin, too. I'll look in to it.
> > Art's gonna' ride, too. (the official MFW Horseback Photographer!)
> >
> > David
>
> I am?
>
> <checking calendar>
>
> Uh - when?
>
> And is anyone going to 'splain how I can condition my rear
> for riding without actually riding? Or is this ride you're planning
> going to require some 'sperience?

You'll be fine. Just relax. :)

A trail ride is usually at a walk, so it's relatively safe (and
painless) for beginners. So if you are conditioned to sitting for an
hour or two, or three, you'll be fine. I can show you stretches to
take the kinks out when I'm there.
One suggestion: start stretching your adductors a few weeks in
advance.

Elzinator
June 15th 04, 01:25 PM
"Art S" > wrote in message >...
> "David Cohen" > wrote in message
> k.net...
> >
> >
> > We'll definitely go riding in December, before or after the meet.
> > There's probably riding stables in Laughlin, too. I'll look in to it.
> > Art's gonna' ride, too. (the official MFW Horseback Photographer!)
> >
> > David
>
> I am?
>
> <checking calendar>
>
> Uh - when?
>
> And is anyone going to 'splain how I can condition my rear
> for riding without actually riding? Or is this ride you're planning
> going to require some 'sperience?

You'll be fine. Just relax. :)

A trail ride is usually at a walk, so it's relatively safe (and
painless) for beginners. So if you are conditioned to sitting for an
hour or two, or three, you'll be fine. I can show you stretches to
take the kinks out when I'm there.
One suggestion: start stretching your adductors a few weeks in
advance.

John HUDSON
June 15th 04, 01:59 PM
On 15 Jun 2004 05:25:52 -0700, (Elzinator)
wrote:

>"Art S" > wrote in message >...
>> "David Cohen" > wrote in message
>> k.net...
>> >
>> >
>> > We'll definitely go riding in December, before or after the meet.
>> > There's probably riding stables in Laughlin, too. I'll look in to it.
>> > Art's gonna' ride, too. (the official MFW Horseback Photographer!)
>> >
>> > David
>>
>> I am?
>>
>> <checking calendar>
>>
>> Uh - when?
>>
>> And is anyone going to 'splain how I can condition my rear
>> for riding without actually riding? Or is this ride you're planning
>> going to require some 'sperience?
>
>You'll be fine. Just relax. :)
>
>A trail ride is usually at a walk, so it's relatively safe (and
>painless) for beginners. So if you are conditioned to sitting for an
>hour or two, or three, you'll be fine. I can show you stretches to
>take the kinks out when I'm there.
>One suggestion: start stretching your adductors a few weeks in
>advance.

More to the point it would also be a sensible precaution to exercise
these otherwise neglected muscles; the adductors are the muscles that
really hold the key to keeping one in the saddle, and these *will* get
sore.

John HUDSON
June 15th 04, 01:59 PM
On 15 Jun 2004 05:25:52 -0700, (Elzinator)
wrote:

>"Art S" > wrote in message >...
>> "David Cohen" > wrote in message
>> k.net...
>> >
>> >
>> > We'll definitely go riding in December, before or after the meet.
>> > There's probably riding stables in Laughlin, too. I'll look in to it.
>> > Art's gonna' ride, too. (the official MFW Horseback Photographer!)
>> >
>> > David
>>
>> I am?
>>
>> <checking calendar>
>>
>> Uh - when?
>>
>> And is anyone going to 'splain how I can condition my rear
>> for riding without actually riding? Or is this ride you're planning
>> going to require some 'sperience?
>
>You'll be fine. Just relax. :)
>
>A trail ride is usually at a walk, so it's relatively safe (and
>painless) for beginners. So if you are conditioned to sitting for an
>hour or two, or three, you'll be fine. I can show you stretches to
>take the kinks out when I'm there.
>One suggestion: start stretching your adductors a few weeks in
>advance.

More to the point it would also be a sensible precaution to exercise
these otherwise neglected muscles; the adductors are the muscles that
really hold the key to keeping one in the saddle, and these *will* get
sore.

Art S
June 15th 04, 04:05 PM
"David Cohen" > wrote in message
k.net...
>
> "Art S" > wrote
> > "David Cohen" > wrote > >
> > >
> > > We'll definitely go riding in December, before or after the meet.
> > > There's probably riding stables in Laughlin, too. I'll look in to
> it.
> > > Art's gonna' ride, too. (the official MFW Horseback Photographer!)
> > >
> > > David
> >
> > I am?
> >
> > <checking calendar>
> >
> > Uh - when?
>
> December.

That is one long ride.

Are we camping out every night, or hoteling it?

Art

Art S
June 15th 04, 04:05 PM
"David Cohen" > wrote in message
k.net...
>
> "Art S" > wrote
> > "David Cohen" > wrote > >
> > >
> > > We'll definitely go riding in December, before or after the meet.
> > > There's probably riding stables in Laughlin, too. I'll look in to
> it.
> > > Art's gonna' ride, too. (the official MFW Horseback Photographer!)
> > >
> > > David
> >
> > I am?
> >
> > <checking calendar>
> >
> > Uh - when?
>
> December.

That is one long ride.

Are we camping out every night, or hoteling it?

Art

David Cohen
June 15th 04, 05:24 PM
"Art S" > wrote in message
...
>
> "David Cohen" > wrote in message
> k.net...
> >
> > "Art S" > wrote
> > > "David Cohen" > wrote > >
> > > >
> > > > We'll definitely go riding in December, before or after the
meet.
> > > > There's probably riding stables in Laughlin, too. I'll look in
to
> > it.
> > > > Art's gonna' ride, too. (the official MFW Horseback
Photographer!)
> > > >
> > > > David
> > >
> > > I am?
> > >
> > > <checking calendar>
> > >
> > > Uh - when?
> >
> > December.
>
> That is one long ride.
>
> Are we camping out every night, or hoteling it?

Cookie will be bringin' up the chuck wagon every night, and we'll eat
beans and dead critter, and chew tabacco, and...and...ok, that's it,
I'm naming my horse Silver, gonna' wear white, and a little mask, and
yell, "Hi, Oh, Silver, AWAY!!"

David

David Cohen
June 15th 04, 05:24 PM
"Art S" > wrote in message
...
>
> "David Cohen" > wrote in message
> k.net...
> >
> > "Art S" > wrote
> > > "David Cohen" > wrote > >
> > > >
> > > > We'll definitely go riding in December, before or after the
meet.
> > > > There's probably riding stables in Laughlin, too. I'll look in
to
> > it.
> > > > Art's gonna' ride, too. (the official MFW Horseback
Photographer!)
> > > >
> > > > David
> > >
> > > I am?
> > >
> > > <checking calendar>
> > >
> > > Uh - when?
> >
> > December.
>
> That is one long ride.
>
> Are we camping out every night, or hoteling it?

Cookie will be bringin' up the chuck wagon every night, and we'll eat
beans and dead critter, and chew tabacco, and...and...ok, that's it,
I'm naming my horse Silver, gonna' wear white, and a little mask, and
yell, "Hi, Oh, Silver, AWAY!!"

David

elzinator
June 16th 04, 03:15 AM
On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 07:17:50 -0400, Hoff wrote:
>"elzinator" > wrote in message

>> The secret is to keep a 'soft' seat. i.e. relax your torso, low back
>> and glutes. Let the horse and its back move unrestricted underneath
>> you . Your seat is supposed to be an extension of the horses back,
>> tightening only to cue the horse to change leads, speed or stop. Other
>> than that, keep the glutes loose ( relaxed :) and you wont get sore.
>>
>> When you tighten up, the horse is uncomfortable and responds by
>> hollowing its back, which makes for a bumpy ride: they can't collect
>> themselves underneath a hollow back. You get bumped, and they hurt
>> worse and it goes downhill from there.
>>
>> When you can tighten one glute, keeping the other relaxed and the
>> horse responds by bending to the side, you know you have his
>> attention. (a good horse is trained to move away from pressure; a good
>> rider uses the seat to 'talk' to the horse).
>>
>
>Yeah, yeah. I've been getting these "lessons" from Sharon, too.

It won't be as much an issue for you, since most riding stables use
western saddles. However, when riding bareback or dressage, slight and
subtle shifts in weight, touches, etc can 'mean' something (i.e.
communication).

When you tighten a glute, your weight shifts. A well-trained horse can
sense that, and a good rider (such as in dressage) uses that to
communicate with the horse. Well trained horses are taught to 'listen'
and move away from pressure. Using slight shifts of weight in your
seat (such as tightening a glute, which also tightens the upper leg
and induces a shift in weight) can tell a horse to change direction or
bend (called 'suppleness'), and with the legs placed correctly (even
without squeezing them against the horse) can tell the horse which way
to bend or to change leads.

Riders who wiggle, jiggle and are tight confuse the horse and they
eventually either get very ****y or they totally tune you out and
don't listen. If you get the chance, watch a dressage class or event
on TV. It's boring as hell, but just watch the rider, how they sit,
hold themselves. It looks as if they hardly move. That's because they
don't. Its all weight shifts, seat, legs, shoulders, etc. The rider
drives with the seat, changes lead and bends with the seat, stops with
the seat.

There are as many disciplines, styles and training in horse riding as
there is martial arts. I've ridden (but not mastered) most of them:
English, cross-country (jumping), dressage and Western. I was
fortunate to work with an excellent trainer who will probably remain
mostly unknown except for where he lives (he teaches high school in an
Oregon rural town) and in Arizona, where he went for most of the
summers to work with and train Arabians. A gentle and soft-spoken man,
he instinctively knew horses like no one else I've known. He could
match up a horse's confirmation, personality and rider.

Our (Shadow and I) first lessons with him was all about learning how
to communicate using my body and the horse's (and learning the
limitations of the horse). His philosophy was one never masters how to
ride until they've ridden bareback with no reins. It took us along
time to get to that point, but we did eventually (Shadow was just
starting under saddle, so he was 'green'). John studied dressage, but
worked mostly with English and Western, using dressage principles. He
was totally unpretentious.

I owe much of the close understanding Shadow and I have in riding to
John. And Shadow loves to ride (he literally shoves his head into the
bridle and picks up the bit into his mouth "Let's go, Mom."). He's a
very willing horse because I don't ask him to do anything that I know
he cannot do (because of confirmation, injuries, etc). But he likes to
learn new things (he backed through poles on the ground in an "L"
shape one day in the arena when he was loose; everyone roared and said
he should be a circus horse; Shadow's specialty is trail classes. He's
afraid of nothing. But hates pole work - trotting over poles :)

>Y'all make it sound soooooo easy. Until I'm breaking I'm tailbone,
>wondering what in the hell is so *fun* about this ;)

Let Sharon coach you. It is fun; you'll see. :)

>It's actually been a couple of years since she's ridden. Her parents sold
>their farm, along with their remaining horses. I know growing up she did
>the whole competition thing (dressage (sp??)), along with working the horses
>her dad had at the track. I promised I'd go riding with her this summer, so
>I'll at least have a little practice before December.

If Sharon has dressage experience, you have a very good coach to guide
you :)

We will have lots of fun! I only wish I could bring Shadow along.


"I am the monster." - Riddick

elzinator
June 16th 04, 03:15 AM
On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 07:17:50 -0400, Hoff wrote:
>"elzinator" > wrote in message

>> The secret is to keep a 'soft' seat. i.e. relax your torso, low back
>> and glutes. Let the horse and its back move unrestricted underneath
>> you . Your seat is supposed to be an extension of the horses back,
>> tightening only to cue the horse to change leads, speed or stop. Other
>> than that, keep the glutes loose ( relaxed :) and you wont get sore.
>>
>> When you tighten up, the horse is uncomfortable and responds by
>> hollowing its back, which makes for a bumpy ride: they can't collect
>> themselves underneath a hollow back. You get bumped, and they hurt
>> worse and it goes downhill from there.
>>
>> When you can tighten one glute, keeping the other relaxed and the
>> horse responds by bending to the side, you know you have his
>> attention. (a good horse is trained to move away from pressure; a good
>> rider uses the seat to 'talk' to the horse).
>>
>
>Yeah, yeah. I've been getting these "lessons" from Sharon, too.

It won't be as much an issue for you, since most riding stables use
western saddles. However, when riding bareback or dressage, slight and
subtle shifts in weight, touches, etc can 'mean' something (i.e.
communication).

When you tighten a glute, your weight shifts. A well-trained horse can
sense that, and a good rider (such as in dressage) uses that to
communicate with the horse. Well trained horses are taught to 'listen'
and move away from pressure. Using slight shifts of weight in your
seat (such as tightening a glute, which also tightens the upper leg
and induces a shift in weight) can tell a horse to change direction or
bend (called 'suppleness'), and with the legs placed correctly (even
without squeezing them against the horse) can tell the horse which way
to bend or to change leads.

Riders who wiggle, jiggle and are tight confuse the horse and they
eventually either get very ****y or they totally tune you out and
don't listen. If you get the chance, watch a dressage class or event
on TV. It's boring as hell, but just watch the rider, how they sit,
hold themselves. It looks as if they hardly move. That's because they
don't. Its all weight shifts, seat, legs, shoulders, etc. The rider
drives with the seat, changes lead and bends with the seat, stops with
the seat.

There are as many disciplines, styles and training in horse riding as
there is martial arts. I've ridden (but not mastered) most of them:
English, cross-country (jumping), dressage and Western. I was
fortunate to work with an excellent trainer who will probably remain
mostly unknown except for where he lives (he teaches high school in an
Oregon rural town) and in Arizona, where he went for most of the
summers to work with and train Arabians. A gentle and soft-spoken man,
he instinctively knew horses like no one else I've known. He could
match up a horse's confirmation, personality and rider.

Our (Shadow and I) first lessons with him was all about learning how
to communicate using my body and the horse's (and learning the
limitations of the horse). His philosophy was one never masters how to
ride until they've ridden bareback with no reins. It took us along
time to get to that point, but we did eventually (Shadow was just
starting under saddle, so he was 'green'). John studied dressage, but
worked mostly with English and Western, using dressage principles. He
was totally unpretentious.

I owe much of the close understanding Shadow and I have in riding to
John. And Shadow loves to ride (he literally shoves his head into the
bridle and picks up the bit into his mouth "Let's go, Mom."). He's a
very willing horse because I don't ask him to do anything that I know
he cannot do (because of confirmation, injuries, etc). But he likes to
learn new things (he backed through poles on the ground in an "L"
shape one day in the arena when he was loose; everyone roared and said
he should be a circus horse; Shadow's specialty is trail classes. He's
afraid of nothing. But hates pole work - trotting over poles :)

>Y'all make it sound soooooo easy. Until I'm breaking I'm tailbone,
>wondering what in the hell is so *fun* about this ;)

Let Sharon coach you. It is fun; you'll see. :)

>It's actually been a couple of years since she's ridden. Her parents sold
>their farm, along with their remaining horses. I know growing up she did
>the whole competition thing (dressage (sp??)), along with working the horses
>her dad had at the track. I promised I'd go riding with her this summer, so
>I'll at least have a little practice before December.

If Sharon has dressage experience, you have a very good coach to guide
you :)

We will have lots of fun! I only wish I could bring Shadow along.


"I am the monster." - Riddick

elzinator
June 16th 04, 03:16 AM
On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 03:31:42 GMT, Lee Michaels wrote:
>
>"elzinator" > wrote in message

>> The secret is to keep a 'soft' seat. i.e. relax your torso, low back
>> and glutes. Let the horse and its back move unrestricted underneath
>> you . Your seat is supposed to be an extension of the horses back,
>> tightening only to cue the horse to change leads, speed or stop. Other
>> than that, keep the glutes loose ( relaxed :) and you wont get sore.
>>
>> When you tighten up, the horse is uncomfortable and responds by
>> hollowing its back, which makes for a bumpy ride: they can't collect
>> themselves underneath a hollow back. You get bumped, and they hurt
>> worse and it goes downhill from there.
>>
>> When you can tighten one glute, keeping the other relaxed and the
>> horse responds by bending to the side, you know you have his
>> attention. (a good horse is trained to move away from pressure; a good
>> rider uses the seat to 'talk' to the horse).
>>
>
>Yes grasshopper. This is known as the Elzi Butt Talking Way. It is a secret
>method that various horse whisperers use to "talk" to the horse. Think of
>it as glute based nonverbal communication.

Too funny, Lee :)


"I am the monster." - Riddick

elzinator
June 16th 04, 03:16 AM
On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 03:31:42 GMT, Lee Michaels wrote:
>
>"elzinator" > wrote in message

>> The secret is to keep a 'soft' seat. i.e. relax your torso, low back
>> and glutes. Let the horse and its back move unrestricted underneath
>> you . Your seat is supposed to be an extension of the horses back,
>> tightening only to cue the horse to change leads, speed or stop. Other
>> than that, keep the glutes loose ( relaxed :) and you wont get sore.
>>
>> When you tighten up, the horse is uncomfortable and responds by
>> hollowing its back, which makes for a bumpy ride: they can't collect
>> themselves underneath a hollow back. You get bumped, and they hurt
>> worse and it goes downhill from there.
>>
>> When you can tighten one glute, keeping the other relaxed and the
>> horse responds by bending to the side, you know you have his
>> attention. (a good horse is trained to move away from pressure; a good
>> rider uses the seat to 'talk' to the horse).
>>
>
>Yes grasshopper. This is known as the Elzi Butt Talking Way. It is a secret
>method that various horse whisperers use to "talk" to the horse. Think of
>it as glute based nonverbal communication.

Too funny, Lee :)


"I am the monster." - Riddick

elzinator
June 16th 04, 03:17 AM
On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 01:40:09 GMT, David Cohen wrote:
>
>"elzinator" > wrote
>> Hoff wrote:
>> >"elzinator" > wrote
>> >> Hoff wrote:
>> >> >"elzinator" > wrote
>> >> >> So you had better condition your ass, David. For we'se goin'
>fer a
>> >> >> ride!!
>> >> >> (maybe we can coax Keith and others into it, too. Hint: Don't
>squat
>> >> >> with your spurs on.)
>> >> >>
>> >> >Won't have to coax Sharon; she grew up riding. Even has her
>little black
>> >> >hat. I wasn't nearly as interested in finding the hat as I was
>looking
>> >for
>> >> >the crop.
>> >> >
>> >> >****, she made me sit and watch the "Horse Whisperer" yesterday.
>> >>
>> >> So you two want to join in?? The more the merrier!!
>> >>
>> >Sharon for sure.
>>
>> Cool. I'll add her to the list.
>>
>> >I'll be there if they have "Comfort-Select" saddles.
>>
>> The secret is to keep a 'soft' seat. i.e. relax your torso, low back
>> and glutes. Let the horse and its back move unrestricted underneath
>> you . Your seat is supposed to be an extension of the horses back,
>> tightening only to cue the horse to change leads, speed or stop.
>Other
>> than that, keep the glutes loose ( relaxed :) and you wont get sore.
>>
>> When you tighten up, the horse is uncomfortable and responds by
>> hollowing its back, which makes for a bumpy ride: they can't collect
>> themselves underneath a hollow back. You get bumped, and they hurt
>> worse and it goes downhill from there.
>>
>> When you can tighten one glute, keeping the other relaxed and the
>> horse responds by bending to the side, you know you have his
>> attention. (a good horse is trained to move away from pressure; a
>good
>> rider uses the seat to 'talk' to the horse).
>
>So, I guess naked riding is out for Hoff and me...getting whacked all
>over the back would confuse the horse :)

Dude, think about the Indians riding bareback in loincloths.
Ow.


"I am the monster." - Riddick

elzinator
June 16th 04, 03:17 AM
On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 01:40:09 GMT, David Cohen wrote:
>
>"elzinator" > wrote
>> Hoff wrote:
>> >"elzinator" > wrote
>> >> Hoff wrote:
>> >> >"elzinator" > wrote
>> >> >> So you had better condition your ass, David. For we'se goin'
>fer a
>> >> >> ride!!
>> >> >> (maybe we can coax Keith and others into it, too. Hint: Don't
>squat
>> >> >> with your spurs on.)
>> >> >>
>> >> >Won't have to coax Sharon; she grew up riding. Even has her
>little black
>> >> >hat. I wasn't nearly as interested in finding the hat as I was
>looking
>> >for
>> >> >the crop.
>> >> >
>> >> >****, she made me sit and watch the "Horse Whisperer" yesterday.
>> >>
>> >> So you two want to join in?? The more the merrier!!
>> >>
>> >Sharon for sure.
>>
>> Cool. I'll add her to the list.
>>
>> >I'll be there if they have "Comfort-Select" saddles.
>>
>> The secret is to keep a 'soft' seat. i.e. relax your torso, low back
>> and glutes. Let the horse and its back move unrestricted underneath
>> you . Your seat is supposed to be an extension of the horses back,
>> tightening only to cue the horse to change leads, speed or stop.
>Other
>> than that, keep the glutes loose ( relaxed :) and you wont get sore.
>>
>> When you tighten up, the horse is uncomfortable and responds by
>> hollowing its back, which makes for a bumpy ride: they can't collect
>> themselves underneath a hollow back. You get bumped, and they hurt
>> worse and it goes downhill from there.
>>
>> When you can tighten one glute, keeping the other relaxed and the
>> horse responds by bending to the side, you know you have his
>> attention. (a good horse is trained to move away from pressure; a
>good
>> rider uses the seat to 'talk' to the horse).
>
>So, I guess naked riding is out for Hoff and me...getting whacked all
>over the back would confuse the horse :)

Dude, think about the Indians riding bareback in loincloths.
Ow.


"I am the monster." - Riddick

Lee Michaels
June 16th 04, 04:10 AM
"elzinator" > wrote
>
> We will have lots of fun! I only wish I could bring Shadow along.
>

You mean they won't let Shadow ride "coach"??

Lee Michaels
June 16th 04, 04:10 AM
"elzinator" > wrote
>
> We will have lots of fun! I only wish I could bring Shadow along.
>

You mean they won't let Shadow ride "coach"??

John HUDSON
June 16th 04, 08:52 AM
On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:15:35 -0500, elzinator
> wrote:

>On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 07:17:50 -0400, Hoff wrote:
>>"elzinator" > wrote in message
>
>>> The secret is to keep a 'soft' seat. i.e. relax your torso, low back
>>> and glutes. Let the horse and its back move unrestricted underneath
>>> you . Your seat is supposed to be an extension of the horses back,
>>> tightening only to cue the horse to change leads, speed or stop. Other
>>> than that, keep the glutes loose ( relaxed :) and you wont get sore.
>>>
>>> When you tighten up, the horse is uncomfortable and responds by
>>> hollowing its back, which makes for a bumpy ride: they can't collect
>>> themselves underneath a hollow back. You get bumped, and they hurt
>>> worse and it goes downhill from there.
>>>
>>> When you can tighten one glute, keeping the other relaxed and the
>>> horse responds by bending to the side, you know you have his
>>> attention. (a good horse is trained to move away from pressure; a good
>>> rider uses the seat to 'talk' to the horse).
>>>
>>
>>Yeah, yeah. I've been getting these "lessons" from Sharon, too.
>
>It won't be as much an issue for you, since most riding stables use
>western saddles. However, when riding bareback or dressage, slight and
>subtle shifts in weight, touches, etc can 'mean' something (i.e.
>communication).

Says Elzi desperately trying to 'wriggle' out of her hilarious
instructions yesterday to talk to our mounts with our arses!! ;o)

>
>When you tighten a glute, your weight shifts. A well-trained horse can
>sense that, and a good rider (such as in dressage) uses that to
>communicate with the horse. Well trained horses are taught to 'listen'
>and move away from pressure. Using slight shifts of weight in your
>seat (such as tightening a glute, which also tightens the upper leg
>and induces a shift in weight) can tell a horse to change direction or
>bend (called 'suppleness'), and with the legs placed correctly (even
>without squeezing them against the horse) can tell the horse which way
>to bend or to change leads.

Well trained horses with highly skilled riders can and do perform
wonders in the competition arena, with all manner of body nuances. You
were offering advice to raw novices, on hired school horses, about to
go on a "trail ride"!!

Your knowledge of horsemanship is at best sketchy, and at worst very
misleading and confusing to any newcomer to this wonderful sport!! As
usual your motive is to impress rather than to assist.

[...]

John HUDSON
June 16th 04, 08:52 AM
On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:15:35 -0500, elzinator
> wrote:

>On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 07:17:50 -0400, Hoff wrote:
>>"elzinator" > wrote in message
>
>>> The secret is to keep a 'soft' seat. i.e. relax your torso, low back
>>> and glutes. Let the horse and its back move unrestricted underneath
>>> you . Your seat is supposed to be an extension of the horses back,
>>> tightening only to cue the horse to change leads, speed or stop. Other
>>> than that, keep the glutes loose ( relaxed :) and you wont get sore.
>>>
>>> When you tighten up, the horse is uncomfortable and responds by
>>> hollowing its back, which makes for a bumpy ride: they can't collect
>>> themselves underneath a hollow back. You get bumped, and they hurt
>>> worse and it goes downhill from there.
>>>
>>> When you can tighten one glute, keeping the other relaxed and the
>>> horse responds by bending to the side, you know you have his
>>> attention. (a good horse is trained to move away from pressure; a good
>>> rider uses the seat to 'talk' to the horse).
>>>
>>
>>Yeah, yeah. I've been getting these "lessons" from Sharon, too.
>
>It won't be as much an issue for you, since most riding stables use
>western saddles. However, when riding bareback or dressage, slight and
>subtle shifts in weight, touches, etc can 'mean' something (i.e.
>communication).

Says Elzi desperately trying to 'wriggle' out of her hilarious
instructions yesterday to talk to our mounts with our arses!! ;o)

>
>When you tighten a glute, your weight shifts. A well-trained horse can
>sense that, and a good rider (such as in dressage) uses that to
>communicate with the horse. Well trained horses are taught to 'listen'
>and move away from pressure. Using slight shifts of weight in your
>seat (such as tightening a glute, which also tightens the upper leg
>and induces a shift in weight) can tell a horse to change direction or
>bend (called 'suppleness'), and with the legs placed correctly (even
>without squeezing them against the horse) can tell the horse which way
>to bend or to change leads.

Well trained horses with highly skilled riders can and do perform
wonders in the competition arena, with all manner of body nuances. You
were offering advice to raw novices, on hired school horses, about to
go on a "trail ride"!!

Your knowledge of horsemanship is at best sketchy, and at worst very
misleading and confusing to any newcomer to this wonderful sport!! As
usual your motive is to impress rather than to assist.

[...]

elzinator
June 17th 04, 12:36 AM
On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 03:10:38 GMT, Lee Michaels wrote:
>
>"elzinator" > wrote
>>
>> We will have lots of fun! I only wish I could bring Shadow along.
>>
>
>You mean they won't let Shadow ride "coach"??

He will next week, but not in an airplane.

The real man in my life is coming home.


"I am the monster." - Riddick

elzinator
June 17th 04, 12:36 AM
On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 03:10:38 GMT, Lee Michaels wrote:
>
>"elzinator" > wrote
>>
>> We will have lots of fun! I only wish I could bring Shadow along.
>>
>
>You mean they won't let Shadow ride "coach"??

He will next week, but not in an airplane.

The real man in my life is coming home.


"I am the monster." - Riddick

Axel of the North!
June 18th 04, 07:06 AM
On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:52:01 +0100, John HUDSON >
wrote:

>On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:15:35 -0500, elzinator
> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 07:17:50 -0400, Hoff wrote:
>>>"elzinator" > wrote in message
>>
>>>> The secret is to keep a 'soft' seat. i.e. relax your torso, low back
>>>> and glutes. Let the horse and its back move unrestricted underneath
>>>> you . Your seat is supposed to be an extension of the horses back,
>>>> tightening only to cue the horse to change leads, speed or stop. Other
>>>> than that, keep the glutes loose ( relaxed :) and you wont get sore.
>>>>
>>>> When you tighten up, the horse is uncomfortable and responds by
>>>> hollowing its back, which makes for a bumpy ride: they can't collect
>>>> themselves underneath a hollow back. You get bumped, and they hurt
>>>> worse and it goes downhill from there.
>>>>
>>>> When you can tighten one glute, keeping the other relaxed and the
>>>> horse responds by bending to the side, you know you have his
>>>> attention. (a good horse is trained to move away from pressure; a good
>>>> rider uses the seat to 'talk' to the horse).
>>>>
>>>
>>>Yeah, yeah. I've been getting these "lessons" from Sharon, too.
>>
>>It won't be as much an issue for you, since most riding stables use
>>western saddles. However, when riding bareback or dressage, slight and
>>subtle shifts in weight, touches, etc can 'mean' something (i.e.
>>communication).
>
>Says Elzi desperately trying to 'wriggle' out of her hilarious
>instructions yesterday to talk to our mounts with our arses!! ;o)

This reminds me. You british guys. you tend to gravitate to
arse-related topics as easily as adolescent males in midwest american
culture. what is that about? i've gotten the impression through
various media that you guys are very much the buggers. do you think,
personal opinions aside, that british people are more analy-minded or
analy-friendly than other cultures? (and yes i'm sure that Brazilians
are worse than you guys in this respect)

>
>>
>>When you tighten a glute, your weight shifts. A well-trained horse can
>>sense that, and a good rider (such as in dressage) uses that to
>>communicate with the horse. Well trained horses are taught to 'listen'
>>and move away from pressure. Using slight shifts of weight in your
>>seat (such as tightening a glute, which also tightens the upper leg
>>and induces a shift in weight) can tell a horse to change direction or
>>bend (called 'suppleness'), and with the legs placed correctly (even
>>without squeezing them against the horse) can tell the horse which way
>>to bend or to change leads.
>
>Well trained horses with highly skilled riders can and do perform
>wonders in the competition arena, with all manner of body nuances. You
>were offering advice to raw novices, on hired school horses, about to
>go on a "trail ride"!!
>
>Your knowledge of horsemanship is at best sketchy, and at worst very
>misleading and confusing to any newcomer to this wonderful sport!! As
>usual your motive is to impress rather than to assist.
>
>[...]

Let's gang up on her and beat her up! You've got to organize your
supportors, co-ordinate it through e-mail and launch attacks using raw
numbers to overtake all the dreaded old timers who still have the
nerve to openly oppose you!

All must pay for their slights against Hudson! BO)

---
for healthy, natural, environmentally friendly foods in Minnesota go to
http://wholefarmcoop.com

Axel of the North!
June 18th 04, 07:06 AM
On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:52:01 +0100, John HUDSON >
wrote:

>On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:15:35 -0500, elzinator
> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 07:17:50 -0400, Hoff wrote:
>>>"elzinator" > wrote in message
>>
>>>> The secret is to keep a 'soft' seat. i.e. relax your torso, low back
>>>> and glutes. Let the horse and its back move unrestricted underneath
>>>> you . Your seat is supposed to be an extension of the horses back,
>>>> tightening only to cue the horse to change leads, speed or stop. Other
>>>> than that, keep the glutes loose ( relaxed :) and you wont get sore.
>>>>
>>>> When you tighten up, the horse is uncomfortable and responds by
>>>> hollowing its back, which makes for a bumpy ride: they can't collect
>>>> themselves underneath a hollow back. You get bumped, and they hurt
>>>> worse and it goes downhill from there.
>>>>
>>>> When you can tighten one glute, keeping the other relaxed and the
>>>> horse responds by bending to the side, you know you have his
>>>> attention. (a good horse is trained to move away from pressure; a good
>>>> rider uses the seat to 'talk' to the horse).
>>>>
>>>
>>>Yeah, yeah. I've been getting these "lessons" from Sharon, too.
>>
>>It won't be as much an issue for you, since most riding stables use
>>western saddles. However, when riding bareback or dressage, slight and
>>subtle shifts in weight, touches, etc can 'mean' something (i.e.
>>communication).
>
>Says Elzi desperately trying to 'wriggle' out of her hilarious
>instructions yesterday to talk to our mounts with our arses!! ;o)

This reminds me. You british guys. you tend to gravitate to
arse-related topics as easily as adolescent males in midwest american
culture. what is that about? i've gotten the impression through
various media that you guys are very much the buggers. do you think,
personal opinions aside, that british people are more analy-minded or
analy-friendly than other cultures? (and yes i'm sure that Brazilians
are worse than you guys in this respect)

>
>>
>>When you tighten a glute, your weight shifts. A well-trained horse can
>>sense that, and a good rider (such as in dressage) uses that to
>>communicate with the horse. Well trained horses are taught to 'listen'
>>and move away from pressure. Using slight shifts of weight in your
>>seat (such as tightening a glute, which also tightens the upper leg
>>and induces a shift in weight) can tell a horse to change direction or
>>bend (called 'suppleness'), and with the legs placed correctly (even
>>without squeezing them against the horse) can tell the horse which way
>>to bend or to change leads.
>
>Well trained horses with highly skilled riders can and do perform
>wonders in the competition arena, with all manner of body nuances. You
>were offering advice to raw novices, on hired school horses, about to
>go on a "trail ride"!!
>
>Your knowledge of horsemanship is at best sketchy, and at worst very
>misleading and confusing to any newcomer to this wonderful sport!! As
>usual your motive is to impress rather than to assist.
>
>[...]

Let's gang up on her and beat her up! You've got to organize your
supportors, co-ordinate it through e-mail and launch attacks using raw
numbers to overtake all the dreaded old timers who still have the
nerve to openly oppose you!

All must pay for their slights against Hudson! BO)

---
for healthy, natural, environmentally friendly foods in Minnesota go to
http://wholefarmcoop.com

Larry Hodges
June 18th 04, 07:43 AM
Axel of the North! wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:52:01 +0100, John HUDSON >
> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:15:35 -0500, elzinator
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 07:17:50 -0400, Hoff wrote:
>>>> "elzinator" > wrote in message
>>>
>>>>> The secret is to keep a 'soft' seat. i.e. relax your torso, low
>>>>> back and glutes. Let the horse and its back move unrestricted
>>>>> underneath you . Your seat is supposed to be an extension of the
>>>>> horses back, tightening only to cue the horse to change leads,
>>>>> speed or stop. Other than that, keep the glutes loose ( relaxed
>>>>> :) and you wont get sore.
>>>>>
>>>>> When you tighten up, the horse is uncomfortable and responds by
>>>>> hollowing its back, which makes for a bumpy ride: they can't
>>>>> collect themselves underneath a hollow back. You get bumped, and
>>>>> they hurt worse and it goes downhill from there.
>>>>>
>>>>> When you can tighten one glute, keeping the other relaxed and the
>>>>> horse responds by bending to the side, you know you have his
>>>>> attention. (a good horse is trained to move away from pressure; a
>>>>> good rider uses the seat to 'talk' to the horse).
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, yeah. I've been getting these "lessons" from Sharon, too.
>>>
>>> It won't be as much an issue for you, since most riding stables use
>>> western saddles. However, when riding bareback or dressage, slight
>>> and subtle shifts in weight, touches, etc can 'mean' something (i.e.
>>> communication).
>>
>> Says Elzi desperately trying to 'wriggle' out of her hilarious
>> instructions yesterday to talk to our mounts with our arses!! ;o)
>
> This reminds me. You british guys. you tend to gravitate to
> arse-related topics as easily as adolescent males in midwest american
> culture. what is that about? i've gotten the impression through
> various media that you guys are very much the buggers. do you think,
> personal opinions aside, that british people are more analy-minded or
> analy-friendly than other cultures? (and yes i'm sure that Brazilians
> are worse than you guys in this respect)
>
>>
>>>
>>> When you tighten a glute, your weight shifts. A well-trained horse
>>> can sense that, and a good rider (such as in dressage) uses that to
>>> communicate with the horse. Well trained horses are taught to
>>> 'listen' and move away from pressure. Using slight shifts of weight
>>> in your seat (such as tightening a glute, which also tightens the
>>> upper leg and induces a shift in weight) can tell a horse to change
>>> direction or bend (called 'suppleness'), and with the legs placed
>>> correctly (even without squeezing them against the horse) can tell
>>> the horse which way to bend or to change leads.
>>
>> Well trained horses with highly skilled riders can and do perform
>> wonders in the competition arena, with all manner of body nuances.
>> You were offering advice to raw novices, on hired school horses,
>> about to go on a "trail ride"!!
>>
>> Your knowledge of horsemanship is at best sketchy, and at worst very
>> misleading and confusing to any newcomer to this wonderful sport!! As
>> usual your motive is to impress rather than to assist.
>>
>> [...]
>
> Let's gang up on her and beat her up! You've got to organize your
> supportors, co-ordinate it through e-mail and launch attacks using raw
> numbers to overtake all the dreaded old timers who still have the
> nerve to openly oppose you!
>
> All must pay for their slights against Hudson! BO)
>
> ---
> for healthy, natural, environmentally friendly foods in Minnesota go
> to http://wholefarmcoop.com

Hudson is winning. But that's not a bad thing.
--
-Larry

Larry Hodges
June 18th 04, 07:43 AM
Axel of the North! wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:52:01 +0100, John HUDSON >
> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:15:35 -0500, elzinator
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 07:17:50 -0400, Hoff wrote:
>>>> "elzinator" > wrote in message
>>>
>>>>> The secret is to keep a 'soft' seat. i.e. relax your torso, low
>>>>> back and glutes. Let the horse and its back move unrestricted
>>>>> underneath you . Your seat is supposed to be an extension of the
>>>>> horses back, tightening only to cue the horse to change leads,
>>>>> speed or stop. Other than that, keep the glutes loose ( relaxed
>>>>> :) and you wont get sore.
>>>>>
>>>>> When you tighten up, the horse is uncomfortable and responds by
>>>>> hollowing its back, which makes for a bumpy ride: they can't
>>>>> collect themselves underneath a hollow back. You get bumped, and
>>>>> they hurt worse and it goes downhill from there.
>>>>>
>>>>> When you can tighten one glute, keeping the other relaxed and the
>>>>> horse responds by bending to the side, you know you have his
>>>>> attention. (a good horse is trained to move away from pressure; a
>>>>> good rider uses the seat to 'talk' to the horse).
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, yeah. I've been getting these "lessons" from Sharon, too.
>>>
>>> It won't be as much an issue for you, since most riding stables use
>>> western saddles. However, when riding bareback or dressage, slight
>>> and subtle shifts in weight, touches, etc can 'mean' something (i.e.
>>> communication).
>>
>> Says Elzi desperately trying to 'wriggle' out of her hilarious
>> instructions yesterday to talk to our mounts with our arses!! ;o)
>
> This reminds me. You british guys. you tend to gravitate to
> arse-related topics as easily as adolescent males in midwest american
> culture. what is that about? i've gotten the impression through
> various media that you guys are very much the buggers. do you think,
> personal opinions aside, that british people are more analy-minded or
> analy-friendly than other cultures? (and yes i'm sure that Brazilians
> are worse than you guys in this respect)
>
>>
>>>
>>> When you tighten a glute, your weight shifts. A well-trained horse
>>> can sense that, and a good rider (such as in dressage) uses that to
>>> communicate with the horse. Well trained horses are taught to
>>> 'listen' and move away from pressure. Using slight shifts of weight
>>> in your seat (such as tightening a glute, which also tightens the
>>> upper leg and induces a shift in weight) can tell a horse to change
>>> direction or bend (called 'suppleness'), and with the legs placed
>>> correctly (even without squeezing them against the horse) can tell
>>> the horse which way to bend or to change leads.
>>
>> Well trained horses with highly skilled riders can and do perform
>> wonders in the competition arena, with all manner of body nuances.
>> You were offering advice to raw novices, on hired school horses,
>> about to go on a "trail ride"!!
>>
>> Your knowledge of horsemanship is at best sketchy, and at worst very
>> misleading and confusing to any newcomer to this wonderful sport!! As
>> usual your motive is to impress rather than to assist.
>>
>> [...]
>
> Let's gang up on her and beat her up! You've got to organize your
> supportors, co-ordinate it through e-mail and launch attacks using raw
> numbers to overtake all the dreaded old timers who still have the
> nerve to openly oppose you!
>
> All must pay for their slights against Hudson! BO)
>
> ---
> for healthy, natural, environmentally friendly foods in Minnesota go
> to http://wholefarmcoop.com

Hudson is winning. But that's not a bad thing.
--
-Larry

John HUDSON
June 18th 04, 08:06 AM
On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 06:06:47 GMT, (Axel of the North!)
wrote:

>On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:52:01 +0100, John HUDSON >
>wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:15:35 -0500, elzinator
> wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 07:17:50 -0400, Hoff wrote:
>>>>"elzinator" > wrote in message
>>>
>>>>> The secret is to keep a 'soft' seat. i.e. relax your torso, low back
>>>>> and glutes. Let the horse and its back move unrestricted underneath
>>>>> you . Your seat is supposed to be an extension of the horses back,
>>>>> tightening only to cue the horse to change leads, speed or stop. Other
>>>>> than that, keep the glutes loose ( relaxed :) and you wont get sore.
>>>>>
>>>>> When you tighten up, the horse is uncomfortable and responds by
>>>>> hollowing its back, which makes for a bumpy ride: they can't collect
>>>>> themselves underneath a hollow back. You get bumped, and they hurt
>>>>> worse and it goes downhill from there.
>>>>>
>>>>> When you can tighten one glute, keeping the other relaxed and the
>>>>> horse responds by bending to the side, you know you have his
>>>>> attention. (a good horse is trained to move away from pressure; a good
>>>>> rider uses the seat to 'talk' to the horse).
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Yeah, yeah. I've been getting these "lessons" from Sharon, too.
>>>
>>>It won't be as much an issue for you, since most riding stables use
>>>western saddles. However, when riding bareback or dressage, slight and
>>>subtle shifts in weight, touches, etc can 'mean' something (i.e.
>>>communication).
>>
>>Says Elzi desperately trying to 'wriggle' out of her hilarious
>>instructions yesterday to talk to our mounts with our arses!! ;o)
>
>This reminds me. You british guys. you tend to gravitate to
>arse-related topics

It was Elzi that raised the "arse-related topic" when she said:
"When you can tighten one glute, keeping the other relaxed and the
horse responds by bending to the side, you know you have his
attention."

If one knows anything about equitation, that statement is hilariously
funny!!

> as easily as adolescent males in midwest american
>culture. what is that about?

I know nothing about "adolescent males in midwest american
culture" so I really can't offer an opinion.


> i've gotten the impression through
>various media that you guys are very much the buggers.

If you mean in the literal sense of the word as in 'sodomy', you may
perhaps be over generalising. My own personal opinion suggests that
the bum/arse/ass should be limited strictly to the purpose designed by
nature, viz: no entry, exit only!!

Departures from this primary use to other recreational probings, could
result in the practitioner ending up in the ****!!

> do you think,
>personal opinions aside, that british people are more analy-minded or
>analy-friendly than other cultures?

We are sticklers for anniversaries, birthdays etc., so it could be
construed that we are somewhat aware of our annual responsibilities.

> (and yes i'm sure that Brazilians
>are worse than you guys in this respect)

My knowledge of Brazil and "Brazilians" is limited to:
"And there's an awful lot of coffee in Brazil"!!

>
>>
>>>
>>>When you tighten a glute, your weight shifts. A well-trained horse can
>>>sense that, and a good rider (such as in dressage) uses that to
>>>communicate with the horse. Well trained horses are taught to 'listen'
>>>and move away from pressure. Using slight shifts of weight in your
>>>seat (such as tightening a glute, which also tightens the upper leg
>>>and induces a shift in weight) can tell a horse to change direction or
>>>bend (called 'suppleness'), and with the legs placed correctly (even
>>>without squeezing them against the horse) can tell the horse which way
>>>to bend or to change leads.
>>
>>Well trained horses with highly skilled riders can and do perform
>>wonders in the competition arena, with all manner of body nuances. You
>>were offering advice to raw novices, on hired school horses, about to
>>go on a "trail ride"!!
>>
>>Your knowledge of horsemanship is at best sketchy, and at worst very
>>misleading and confusing to any newcomer to this wonderful sport!! As
>>usual your motive is to impress rather than to assist.
>>
>>[...]
>
>Let's gang up on her and beat her up!

That's a bit strong Axel old chap; she is after all a fairly advanced
middle-aged woman, and although she attempts to convey that she can
**** bricks and fart miracles, I do believe that the reality is that
she may be a great deal more fragile than she admits.

>You've got to organize your
>supportors, co-ordinate it through e-mail and launch attacks using raw
>numbers to overtake all the dreaded old timers who still have the
>nerve to openly oppose you!

I think the most dreadful punishment for these "old timers" is to
consign them to the dreaded "killfiles"; that's the only language they
understand dear boy!! "Killfile" the buggers I say!!

>
>All must pay for their slights against Hudson!

Bloody right mate; give as good as you get - and then some!! Do as you
would be done by nil desperandum!!

Fight the good fight until they get the message, and then ram it up
them some more!! "Killfile" the buggers I say!!

> BO)

"BO) ??

Now you have a great weekend Axel, because you know I intend to!! ;o)

TFIF!!

[as trolls go, you don't do a bad job]

John HUDSON
June 18th 04, 08:06 AM
On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 06:06:47 GMT, (Axel of the North!)
wrote:

>On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:52:01 +0100, John HUDSON >
>wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:15:35 -0500, elzinator
> wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 07:17:50 -0400, Hoff wrote:
>>>>"elzinator" > wrote in message
>>>
>>>>> The secret is to keep a 'soft' seat. i.e. relax your torso, low back
>>>>> and glutes. Let the horse and its back move unrestricted underneath
>>>>> you . Your seat is supposed to be an extension of the horses back,
>>>>> tightening only to cue the horse to change leads, speed or stop. Other
>>>>> than that, keep the glutes loose ( relaxed :) and you wont get sore.
>>>>>
>>>>> When you tighten up, the horse is uncomfortable and responds by
>>>>> hollowing its back, which makes for a bumpy ride: they can't collect
>>>>> themselves underneath a hollow back. You get bumped, and they hurt
>>>>> worse and it goes downhill from there.
>>>>>
>>>>> When you can tighten one glute, keeping the other relaxed and the
>>>>> horse responds by bending to the side, you know you have his
>>>>> attention. (a good horse is trained to move away from pressure; a good
>>>>> rider uses the seat to 'talk' to the horse).
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Yeah, yeah. I've been getting these "lessons" from Sharon, too.
>>>
>>>It won't be as much an issue for you, since most riding stables use
>>>western saddles. However, when riding bareback or dressage, slight and
>>>subtle shifts in weight, touches, etc can 'mean' something (i.e.
>>>communication).
>>
>>Says Elzi desperately trying to 'wriggle' out of her hilarious
>>instructions yesterday to talk to our mounts with our arses!! ;o)
>
>This reminds me. You british guys. you tend to gravitate to
>arse-related topics

It was Elzi that raised the "arse-related topic" when she said:
"When you can tighten one glute, keeping the other relaxed and the
horse responds by bending to the side, you know you have his
attention."

If one knows anything about equitation, that statement is hilariously
funny!!

> as easily as adolescent males in midwest american
>culture. what is that about?

I know nothing about "adolescent males in midwest american
culture" so I really can't offer an opinion.


> i've gotten the impression through
>various media that you guys are very much the buggers.

If you mean in the literal sense of the word as in 'sodomy', you may
perhaps be over generalising. My own personal opinion suggests that
the bum/arse/ass should be limited strictly to the purpose designed by
nature, viz: no entry, exit only!!

Departures from this primary use to other recreational probings, could
result in the practitioner ending up in the ****!!

> do you think,
>personal opinions aside, that british people are more analy-minded or
>analy-friendly than other cultures?

We are sticklers for anniversaries, birthdays etc., so it could be
construed that we are somewhat aware of our annual responsibilities.

> (and yes i'm sure that Brazilians
>are worse than you guys in this respect)

My knowledge of Brazil and "Brazilians" is limited to:
"And there's an awful lot of coffee in Brazil"!!

>
>>
>>>
>>>When you tighten a glute, your weight shifts. A well-trained horse can
>>>sense that, and a good rider (such as in dressage) uses that to
>>>communicate with the horse. Well trained horses are taught to 'listen'
>>>and move away from pressure. Using slight shifts of weight in your
>>>seat (such as tightening a glute, which also tightens the upper leg
>>>and induces a shift in weight) can tell a horse to change direction or
>>>bend (called 'suppleness'), and with the legs placed correctly (even
>>>without squeezing them against the horse) can tell the horse which way
>>>to bend or to change leads.
>>
>>Well trained horses with highly skilled riders can and do perform
>>wonders in the competition arena, with all manner of body nuances. You
>>were offering advice to raw novices, on hired school horses, about to
>>go on a "trail ride"!!
>>
>>Your knowledge of horsemanship is at best sketchy, and at worst very
>>misleading and confusing to any newcomer to this wonderful sport!! As
>>usual your motive is to impress rather than to assist.
>>
>>[...]
>
>Let's gang up on her and beat her up!

That's a bit strong Axel old chap; she is after all a fairly advanced
middle-aged woman, and although she attempts to convey that she can
**** bricks and fart miracles, I do believe that the reality is that
she may be a great deal more fragile than she admits.

>You've got to organize your
>supportors, co-ordinate it through e-mail and launch attacks using raw
>numbers to overtake all the dreaded old timers who still have the
>nerve to openly oppose you!

I think the most dreadful punishment for these "old timers" is to
consign them to the dreaded "killfiles"; that's the only language they
understand dear boy!! "Killfile" the buggers I say!!

>
>All must pay for their slights against Hudson!

Bloody right mate; give as good as you get - and then some!! Do as you
would be done by nil desperandum!!

Fight the good fight until they get the message, and then ram it up
them some more!! "Killfile" the buggers I say!!

> BO)

"BO) ??

Now you have a great weekend Axel, because you know I intend to!! ;o)

TFIF!!

[as trolls go, you don't do a bad job]

John HUDSON
June 18th 04, 08:19 AM
On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 23:43:42 -0700, "Larry Hodges"
> wrote:

>Axel of the North! wrote:
>> On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:52:01 +0100, John HUDSON >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:15:35 -0500, elzinator
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 07:17:50 -0400, Hoff wrote:
>>>>> "elzinator" > wrote in message
>>>>
>>>>>> The secret is to keep a 'soft' seat. i.e. relax your torso, low
>>>>>> back and glutes. Let the horse and its back move unrestricted
>>>>>> underneath you . Your seat is supposed to be an extension of the
>>>>>> horses back, tightening only to cue the horse to change leads,
>>>>>> speed or stop. Other than that, keep the glutes loose ( relaxed
>>>>>> :) and you wont get sore.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When you tighten up, the horse is uncomfortable and responds by
>>>>>> hollowing its back, which makes for a bumpy ride: they can't
>>>>>> collect themselves underneath a hollow back. You get bumped, and
>>>>>> they hurt worse and it goes downhill from there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When you can tighten one glute, keeping the other relaxed and the
>>>>>> horse responds by bending to the side, you know you have his
>>>>>> attention. (a good horse is trained to move away from pressure; a
>>>>>> good rider uses the seat to 'talk' to the horse).
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah, yeah. I've been getting these "lessons" from Sharon, too.
>>>>
>>>> It won't be as much an issue for you, since most riding stables use
>>>> western saddles. However, when riding bareback or dressage, slight
>>>> and subtle shifts in weight, touches, etc can 'mean' something (i.e.
>>>> communication).
>>>
>>> Says Elzi desperately trying to 'wriggle' out of her hilarious
>>> instructions yesterday to talk to our mounts with our arses!! ;o)
>>
>> This reminds me. You british guys. you tend to gravitate to
>> arse-related topics as easily as adolescent males in midwest american
>> culture. what is that about? i've gotten the impression through
>> various media that you guys are very much the buggers. do you think,
>> personal opinions aside, that british people are more analy-minded or
>> analy-friendly than other cultures? (and yes i'm sure that Brazilians
>> are worse than you guys in this respect)
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> When you tighten a glute, your weight shifts. A well-trained horse
>>>> can sense that, and a good rider (such as in dressage) uses that to
>>>> communicate with the horse. Well trained horses are taught to
>>>> 'listen' and move away from pressure. Using slight shifts of weight
>>>> in your seat (such as tightening a glute, which also tightens the
>>>> upper leg and induces a shift in weight) can tell a horse to change
>>>> direction or bend (called 'suppleness'), and with the legs placed
>>>> correctly (even without squeezing them against the horse) can tell
>>>> the horse which way to bend or to change leads.
>>>
>>> Well trained horses with highly skilled riders can and do perform
>>> wonders in the competition arena, with all manner of body nuances.
>>> You were offering advice to raw novices, on hired school horses,
>>> about to go on a "trail ride"!!
>>>
>>> Your knowledge of horsemanship is at best sketchy, and at worst very
>>> misleading and confusing to any newcomer to this wonderful sport!! As
>>> usual your motive is to impress rather than to assist.
>>>
>>> [...]
>>
>> Let's gang up on her and beat her up! You've got to organize your
>> supportors, co-ordinate it through e-mail and launch attacks using raw
>> numbers to overtake all the dreaded old timers who still have the
>> nerve to openly oppose you!
>>
>> All must pay for their slights against Hudson! BO)
>>
>> ---
>> for healthy, natural, environmentally friendly foods in Minnesota go
>> to http://wholefarmcoop.com
>
>Hudson is winning. But that's not a bad thing.

They don't like it up them Larry!! ;o)

Have a great weekend - you know I will!!

TFIF!!

John HUDSON
June 18th 04, 08:19 AM
On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 23:43:42 -0700, "Larry Hodges"
> wrote:

>Axel of the North! wrote:
>> On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:52:01 +0100, John HUDSON >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:15:35 -0500, elzinator
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 07:17:50 -0400, Hoff wrote:
>>>>> "elzinator" > wrote in message
>>>>
>>>>>> The secret is to keep a 'soft' seat. i.e. relax your torso, low
>>>>>> back and glutes. Let the horse and its back move unrestricted
>>>>>> underneath you . Your seat is supposed to be an extension of the
>>>>>> horses back, tightening only to cue the horse to change leads,
>>>>>> speed or stop. Other than that, keep the glutes loose ( relaxed
>>>>>> :) and you wont get sore.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When you tighten up, the horse is uncomfortable and responds by
>>>>>> hollowing its back, which makes for a bumpy ride: they can't
>>>>>> collect themselves underneath a hollow back. You get bumped, and
>>>>>> they hurt worse and it goes downhill from there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When you can tighten one glute, keeping the other relaxed and the
>>>>>> horse responds by bending to the side, you know you have his
>>>>>> attention. (a good horse is trained to move away from pressure; a
>>>>>> good rider uses the seat to 'talk' to the horse).
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah, yeah. I've been getting these "lessons" from Sharon, too.
>>>>
>>>> It won't be as much an issue for you, since most riding stables use
>>>> western saddles. However, when riding bareback or dressage, slight
>>>> and subtle shifts in weight, touches, etc can 'mean' something (i.e.
>>>> communication).
>>>
>>> Says Elzi desperately trying to 'wriggle' out of her hilarious
>>> instructions yesterday to talk to our mounts with our arses!! ;o)
>>
>> This reminds me. You british guys. you tend to gravitate to
>> arse-related topics as easily as adolescent males in midwest american
>> culture. what is that about? i've gotten the impression through
>> various media that you guys are very much the buggers. do you think,
>> personal opinions aside, that british people are more analy-minded or
>> analy-friendly than other cultures? (and yes i'm sure that Brazilians
>> are worse than you guys in this respect)
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> When you tighten a glute, your weight shifts. A well-trained horse
>>>> can sense that, and a good rider (such as in dressage) uses that to
>>>> communicate with the horse. Well trained horses are taught to
>>>> 'listen' and move away from pressure. Using slight shifts of weight
>>>> in your seat (such as tightening a glute, which also tightens the
>>>> upper leg and induces a shift in weight) can tell a horse to change
>>>> direction or bend (called 'suppleness'), and with the legs placed
>>>> correctly (even without squeezing them against the horse) can tell
>>>> the horse which way to bend or to change leads.
>>>
>>> Well trained horses with highly skilled riders can and do perform
>>> wonders in the competition arena, with all manner of body nuances.
>>> You were offering advice to raw novices, on hired school horses,
>>> about to go on a "trail ride"!!
>>>
>>> Your knowledge of horsemanship is at best sketchy, and at worst very
>>> misleading and confusing to any newcomer to this wonderful sport!! As
>>> usual your motive is to impress rather than to assist.
>>>
>>> [...]
>>
>> Let's gang up on her and beat her up! You've got to organize your
>> supportors, co-ordinate it through e-mail and launch attacks using raw
>> numbers to overtake all the dreaded old timers who still have the
>> nerve to openly oppose you!
>>
>> All must pay for their slights against Hudson! BO)
>>
>> ---
>> for healthy, natural, environmentally friendly foods in Minnesota go
>> to http://wholefarmcoop.com
>
>Hudson is winning. But that's not a bad thing.

They don't like it up them Larry!! ;o)

Have a great weekend - you know I will!!

TFIF!!

Elzinator
June 18th 04, 08:19 PM
(Axel of the North!) wrote in message >...
> On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:52:01 +0100, John HUDSON >
> wrote:
>
> >On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:15:35 -0500, elzinator
> > wrote:
> >
> >>On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 07:17:50 -0400, Hoff wrote:
> >>>"elzinator" > wrote in message
>
> >>>> The secret is to keep a 'soft' seat. i.e. relax your torso, low back
> >>>> and glutes. Let the horse and its back move unrestricted underneath
> >>>> you . Your seat is supposed to be an extension of the horses back,
> >>>> tightening only to cue the horse to change leads, speed or stop. Other
> >>>> than that, keep the glutes loose ( relaxed :) and you wont get sore.
> >>>>
> >>>> When you tighten up, the horse is uncomfortable and responds by
> >>>> hollowing its back, which makes for a bumpy ride: they can't collect
> >>>> themselves underneath a hollow back. You get bumped, and they hurt
> >>>> worse and it goes downhill from there.
> >>>>
> >>>> When you can tighten one glute, keeping the other relaxed and the
> >>>> horse responds by bending to the side, you know you have his
> >>>> attention. (a good horse is trained to move away from pressure; a good
> >>>> rider uses the seat to 'talk' to the horse).
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>Yeah, yeah. I've been getting these "lessons" from Sharon, too.
> >>
> >>It won't be as much an issue for you, since most riding stables use
> >>western saddles. However, when riding bareback or dressage, slight and
> >>subtle shifts in weight, touches, etc can 'mean' something (i.e.
> >>communication).
> >
> >Says Elzi desperately trying to 'wriggle' out of her hilarious
> >instructions yesterday to talk to our mounts with our arses!! ;o)

JH obviously doesn't know how to ride horses well. His derision serves
only as an opportunity to sling more **** at anyone who doesn't meet
his criteria or at someone who knows more than he does.
As usual.

Elzinator
June 18th 04, 08:19 PM
(Axel of the North!) wrote in message >...
> On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:52:01 +0100, John HUDSON >
> wrote:
>
> >On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:15:35 -0500, elzinator
> > wrote:
> >
> >>On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 07:17:50 -0400, Hoff wrote:
> >>>"elzinator" > wrote in message
>
> >>>> The secret is to keep a 'soft' seat. i.e. relax your torso, low back
> >>>> and glutes. Let the horse and its back move unrestricted underneath
> >>>> you . Your seat is supposed to be an extension of the horses back,
> >>>> tightening only to cue the horse to change leads, speed or stop. Other
> >>>> than that, keep the glutes loose ( relaxed :) and you wont get sore.
> >>>>
> >>>> When you tighten up, the horse is uncomfortable and responds by
> >>>> hollowing its back, which makes for a bumpy ride: they can't collect
> >>>> themselves underneath a hollow back. You get bumped, and they hurt
> >>>> worse and it goes downhill from there.
> >>>>
> >>>> When you can tighten one glute, keeping the other relaxed and the
> >>>> horse responds by bending to the side, you know you have his
> >>>> attention. (a good horse is trained to move away from pressure; a good
> >>>> rider uses the seat to 'talk' to the horse).
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>Yeah, yeah. I've been getting these "lessons" from Sharon, too.
> >>
> >>It won't be as much an issue for you, since most riding stables use
> >>western saddles. However, when riding bareback or dressage, slight and
> >>subtle shifts in weight, touches, etc can 'mean' something (i.e.
> >>communication).
> >
> >Says Elzi desperately trying to 'wriggle' out of her hilarious
> >instructions yesterday to talk to our mounts with our arses!! ;o)

JH obviously doesn't know how to ride horses well. His derision serves
only as an opportunity to sling more **** at anyone who doesn't meet
his criteria or at someone who knows more than he does.
As usual.

Lee Michaels
June 18th 04, 08:34 PM
"Elzinator" > wrote in message
m...
> (Axel of the North!) wrote in message
>...
> > On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:52:01 +0100, John HUDSON >
> > wrote:
> >
> > >On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:15:35 -0500, elzinator
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >>On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 07:17:50 -0400, Hoff wrote:
> > >>>"elzinator" > wrote in message
> >
> > >>>> The secret is to keep a 'soft' seat. i.e. relax your torso, low
back
> > >>>> and glutes. Let the horse and its back move unrestricted underneath
> > >>>> you . Your seat is supposed to be an extension of the horses back,
> > >>>> tightening only to cue the horse to change leads, speed or stop.
Other
> > >>>> than that, keep the glutes loose ( relaxed :) and you wont get
sore.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> When you tighten up, the horse is uncomfortable and responds by
> > >>>> hollowing its back, which makes for a bumpy ride: they can't
collect
> > >>>> themselves underneath a hollow back. You get bumped, and they hurt
> > >>>> worse and it goes downhill from there.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> When you can tighten one glute, keeping the other relaxed and the
> > >>>> horse responds by bending to the side, you know you have his
> > >>>> attention. (a good horse is trained to move away from pressure; a
good
> > >>>> rider uses the seat to 'talk' to the horse).
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>>Yeah, yeah. I've been getting these "lessons" from Sharon, too.
> > >>
> > >>It won't be as much an issue for you, since most riding stables use
> > >>western saddles. However, when riding bareback or dressage, slight and
> > >>subtle shifts in weight, touches, etc can 'mean' something (i.e.
> > >>communication).
> > >
> > >Says Elzi desperately trying to 'wriggle' out of her hilarious
> > >instructions yesterday to talk to our mounts with our arses!! ;o)
>
> JH obviously doesn't know how to ride horses well. His derision serves
> only as an opportunity to sling more **** at anyone who doesn't meet
> his criteria or at someone who knows more than he does.
> As usual.

What is the matter Axis of Stupidity?? Does a woman who knows horses seem
to you be an oldtimer comsumed with anger??

Is being profoundly ignorant rewarding at all?

Again, the theme is the same. When someone who has any kind of specialized
knowledge talks, you go into ridicule mode. Is it still a great mystery why
you and Hudson are killfiled by so many?

Lee Michaels
June 18th 04, 08:34 PM
"Elzinator" > wrote in message
m...
> (Axel of the North!) wrote in message
>...
> > On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:52:01 +0100, John HUDSON >
> > wrote:
> >
> > >On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:15:35 -0500, elzinator
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >>On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 07:17:50 -0400, Hoff wrote:
> > >>>"elzinator" > wrote in message
> >
> > >>>> The secret is to keep a 'soft' seat. i.e. relax your torso, low
back
> > >>>> and glutes. Let the horse and its back move unrestricted underneath
> > >>>> you . Your seat is supposed to be an extension of the horses back,
> > >>>> tightening only to cue the horse to change leads, speed or stop.
Other
> > >>>> than that, keep the glutes loose ( relaxed :) and you wont get
sore.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> When you tighten up, the horse is uncomfortable and responds by
> > >>>> hollowing its back, which makes for a bumpy ride: they can't
collect
> > >>>> themselves underneath a hollow back. You get bumped, and they hurt
> > >>>> worse and it goes downhill from there.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> When you can tighten one glute, keeping the other relaxed and the
> > >>>> horse responds by bending to the side, you know you have his
> > >>>> attention. (a good horse is trained to move away from pressure; a
good
> > >>>> rider uses the seat to 'talk' to the horse).
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>>Yeah, yeah. I've been getting these "lessons" from Sharon, too.
> > >>
> > >>It won't be as much an issue for you, since most riding stables use
> > >>western saddles. However, when riding bareback or dressage, slight and
> > >>subtle shifts in weight, touches, etc can 'mean' something (i.e.
> > >>communication).
> > >
> > >Says Elzi desperately trying to 'wriggle' out of her hilarious
> > >instructions yesterday to talk to our mounts with our arses!! ;o)
>
> JH obviously doesn't know how to ride horses well. His derision serves
> only as an opportunity to sling more **** at anyone who doesn't meet
> his criteria or at someone who knows more than he does.
> As usual.

What is the matter Axis of Stupidity?? Does a woman who knows horses seem
to you be an oldtimer comsumed with anger??

Is being profoundly ignorant rewarding at all?

Again, the theme is the same. When someone who has any kind of specialized
knowledge talks, you go into ridicule mode. Is it still a great mystery why
you and Hudson are killfiled by so many?

Axel of the North!
June 18th 04, 08:54 PM
On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 08:06:02 +0100, John HUDSON >
wrote:

>> i've gotten the impression through
>>various media that you guys are very much the buggers.
>
>If you mean in the literal sense of the word as in 'sodomy', you may
>perhaps be over generalising. My own personal opinion suggests that
>the bum/arse/ass should be limited strictly to the purpose designed by
>nature, viz: no entry, exit only!!

yeah. well, i'm a "barry-morph" so i usually get the impression from
the sexually active women that i can have the rear while they have
their dear (if you know what i mean). that and oral. i'm a regular
egyptian house-slave...

>
>Departures from this primary use to other recreational probings, could
>result in the practitioner ending up in the ****!!

yeah. i bet a really big, tall woman would just bend over, flip up her
skirt and say "have at it, then." and i'd thrust in and she'd say:
"are you in yet?"

>
>> (and yes i'm sure that Brazilians
>>are worse than you guys in this respect)
>
>My knowledge of Brazil and "Brazilians" is limited to:
>"And there's an awful lot of coffee in Brazil"!!

world report for hudson: tons of bis in brazil. they like their women
with smaller breasts and bigger butts. you'd think practically every
woman from brazil has been sodomized a bazillion times.

>>>
>>>Well trained horses with highly skilled riders can and do perform
>>>wonders in the competition arena, with all manner of body nuances. You
>>>were offering advice to raw novices, on hired school horses, about to
>>>go on a "trail ride"!!
>>>
>>>Your knowledge of horsemanship is at best sketchy, and at worst very
>>>misleading and confusing to any newcomer to this wonderful sport!! As
>>>usual your motive is to impress rather than to assist.

maybe she got caught up in her enthusiasm. i'd agree from the horses
that those on the trail, they can seem pretty miserable, they aren't
very attentive or joyful in manner. i felt like i wasn't even
important, that my input didn't matter. it was a kind of depressing
experience.

>>>[...]
>>
>>Let's gang up on her and beat her up!
>
>That's a bit strong Axel old chap; she is after all a fairly advanced
>middle-aged woman, and although she attempts to convey that she can
>**** bricks and fart miracles, I do believe that the reality is that
>she may be a great deal more fragile than she admits.

then we must give her LOVE!!!

>>You've got to organize your
>>supportors, co-ordinate it through e-mail and launch attacks using raw
>>numbers to overtake all the dreaded old timers who still have the
>>nerve to openly oppose you!

>I think the most dreadful punishment for these "old timers" is to
>consign them to the dreaded "killfiles"; that's the only language they
>understand dear boy!! "Killfile" the buggers I say!!

taste their own medicine. well, i suppose that's standard for this
universe.

>>
>>All must pay for their slights against Hudson!
>
>Bloody right mate; give as good as you get - and then some!! Do as you
>would be done by nil desperandum!!
>
>Fight the good fight until they get the message, and then ram it up
>them some more!! "Killfile" the buggers I say!!
>
>> BO)
>
>"BO) ??

that's a smiling dude with a big nose wearing glasses. i can't figure
out how to make them sunglasses in ascii text.

>
>Now you have a great weekend Axel, because you know I intend to!! ;o)
>
>TFIF!!
>
>[as trolls go, you don't do a bad job]

wow! coming from the biggest, baddest, indurate troll of mfw that's a
big compliment!
"Basically I am calling idiots ****faces. If you are not an idiot then
it has nothing to do with you. I believe and idiot started the
original post." --Lady Veteran

Axel of the North!
June 18th 04, 08:54 PM
On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 08:06:02 +0100, John HUDSON >
wrote:

>> i've gotten the impression through
>>various media that you guys are very much the buggers.
>
>If you mean in the literal sense of the word as in 'sodomy', you may
>perhaps be over generalising. My own personal opinion suggests that
>the bum/arse/ass should be limited strictly to the purpose designed by
>nature, viz: no entry, exit only!!

yeah. well, i'm a "barry-morph" so i usually get the impression from
the sexually active women that i can have the rear while they have
their dear (if you know what i mean). that and oral. i'm a regular
egyptian house-slave...

>
>Departures from this primary use to other recreational probings, could
>result in the practitioner ending up in the ****!!

yeah. i bet a really big, tall woman would just bend over, flip up her
skirt and say "have at it, then." and i'd thrust in and she'd say:
"are you in yet?"

>
>> (and yes i'm sure that Brazilians
>>are worse than you guys in this respect)
>
>My knowledge of Brazil and "Brazilians" is limited to:
>"And there's an awful lot of coffee in Brazil"!!

world report for hudson: tons of bis in brazil. they like their women
with smaller breasts and bigger butts. you'd think practically every
woman from brazil has been sodomized a bazillion times.

>>>
>>>Well trained horses with highly skilled riders can and do perform
>>>wonders in the competition arena, with all manner of body nuances. You
>>>were offering advice to raw novices, on hired school horses, about to
>>>go on a "trail ride"!!
>>>
>>>Your knowledge of horsemanship is at best sketchy, and at worst very
>>>misleading and confusing to any newcomer to this wonderful sport!! As
>>>usual your motive is to impress rather than to assist.

maybe she got caught up in her enthusiasm. i'd agree from the horses
that those on the trail, they can seem pretty miserable, they aren't
very attentive or joyful in manner. i felt like i wasn't even
important, that my input didn't matter. it was a kind of depressing
experience.

>>>[...]
>>
>>Let's gang up on her and beat her up!
>
>That's a bit strong Axel old chap; she is after all a fairly advanced
>middle-aged woman, and although she attempts to convey that she can
>**** bricks and fart miracles, I do believe that the reality is that
>she may be a great deal more fragile than she admits.

then we must give her LOVE!!!

>>You've got to organize your
>>supportors, co-ordinate it through e-mail and launch attacks using raw
>>numbers to overtake all the dreaded old timers who still have the
>>nerve to openly oppose you!

>I think the most dreadful punishment for these "old timers" is to
>consign them to the dreaded "killfiles"; that's the only language they
>understand dear boy!! "Killfile" the buggers I say!!

taste their own medicine. well, i suppose that's standard for this
universe.

>>
>>All must pay for their slights against Hudson!
>
>Bloody right mate; give as good as you get - and then some!! Do as you
>would be done by nil desperandum!!
>
>Fight the good fight until they get the message, and then ram it up
>them some more!! "Killfile" the buggers I say!!
>
>> BO)
>
>"BO) ??

that's a smiling dude with a big nose wearing glasses. i can't figure
out how to make them sunglasses in ascii text.

>
>Now you have a great weekend Axel, because you know I intend to!! ;o)
>
>TFIF!!
>
>[as trolls go, you don't do a bad job]

wow! coming from the biggest, baddest, indurate troll of mfw that's a
big compliment!
"Basically I am calling idiots ****faces. If you are not an idiot then
it has nothing to do with you. I believe and idiot started the
original post." --Lady Veteran

John HUDSON
June 18th 04, 10:21 PM
On 18 Jun 2004 12:19:53 -0700, (Elzinator)
wrote:

(Axel of the North!) wrote in message >...
>> On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:52:01 +0100, John HUDSON >
>> wrote:
>>
>> >On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:15:35 -0500, elzinator
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >>On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 07:17:50 -0400, Hoff wrote:
>> >>>"elzinator" > wrote in message
>>
>> >>>> The secret is to keep a 'soft' seat. i.e. relax your torso, low back
>> >>>> and glutes. Let the horse and its back move unrestricted underneath
>> >>>> you . Your seat is supposed to be an extension of the horses back,
>> >>>> tightening only to cue the horse to change leads, speed or stop. Other
>> >>>> than that, keep the glutes loose ( relaxed :) and you wont get sore.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> When you tighten up, the horse is uncomfortable and responds by
>> >>>> hollowing its back, which makes for a bumpy ride: they can't collect
>> >>>> themselves underneath a hollow back. You get bumped, and they hurt
>> >>>> worse and it goes downhill from there.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> When you can tighten one glute, keeping the other relaxed and the
>> >>>> horse responds by bending to the side, you know you have his
>> >>>> attention. (a good horse is trained to move away from pressure; a good
>> >>>> rider uses the seat to 'talk' to the horse).
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>Yeah, yeah. I've been getting these "lessons" from Sharon, too.
>> >>
>> >>It won't be as much an issue for you, since most riding stables use
>> >>western saddles. However, when riding bareback or dressage, slight and
>> >>subtle shifts in weight, touches, etc can 'mean' something (i.e.
>> >>communication).
>> >
>> >Says Elzi desperately trying to 'wriggle' out of her hilarious
>> >instructions yesterday to talk to our mounts with our arses!! ;o)
>
>JH obviously doesn't know how to ride horses well. His derision serves
>only as an opportunity to sling more **** at anyone who doesn't meet
>his criteria or at someone who knows more than he does.
>As usual.

You may be able to baffle us all with your bull**** about biochemistry
(or whatever it is you waffle on endlessly about) Elzi, but when you
move into things equine you are well and truly into my territory.

If you only knew about my intense involvement with horses, you would
cringe with embarrassment at the things you have said you silly
woman!!

I have ridden to hounds since I was a small boy, as have all my family
and that of my wife, who is also a competitive rider. I had my first
pony about the time I started walking. I have competed in three day
eventing, show jumping, cross country and point to point, as well as
being a joint master of a pack of fox hounds!!

How about telling us again how you clench the alternate cheeks of your
arse to steer your mount; I've had so many laughs with that since you
printed it!! <s******>

Do have a good weekend dear - you know I will!! ;o)

TFIF!!

John HUDSON
June 18th 04, 10:21 PM
On 18 Jun 2004 12:19:53 -0700, (Elzinator)
wrote:

(Axel of the North!) wrote in message >...
>> On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:52:01 +0100, John HUDSON >
>> wrote:
>>
>> >On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:15:35 -0500, elzinator
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >>On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 07:17:50 -0400, Hoff wrote:
>> >>>"elzinator" > wrote in message
>>
>> >>>> The secret is to keep a 'soft' seat. i.e. relax your torso, low back
>> >>>> and glutes. Let the horse and its back move unrestricted underneath
>> >>>> you . Your seat is supposed to be an extension of the horses back,
>> >>>> tightening only to cue the horse to change leads, speed or stop. Other
>> >>>> than that, keep the glutes loose ( relaxed :) and you wont get sore.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> When you tighten up, the horse is uncomfortable and responds by
>> >>>> hollowing its back, which makes for a bumpy ride: they can't collect
>> >>>> themselves underneath a hollow back. You get bumped, and they hurt
>> >>>> worse and it goes downhill from there.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> When you can tighten one glute, keeping the other relaxed and the
>> >>>> horse responds by bending to the side, you know you have his
>> >>>> attention. (a good horse is trained to move away from pressure; a good
>> >>>> rider uses the seat to 'talk' to the horse).
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>Yeah, yeah. I've been getting these "lessons" from Sharon, too.
>> >>
>> >>It won't be as much an issue for you, since most riding stables use
>> >>western saddles. However, when riding bareback or dressage, slight and
>> >>subtle shifts in weight, touches, etc can 'mean' something (i.e.
>> >>communication).
>> >
>> >Says Elzi desperately trying to 'wriggle' out of her hilarious
>> >instructions yesterday to talk to our mounts with our arses!! ;o)
>
>JH obviously doesn't know how to ride horses well. His derision serves
>only as an opportunity to sling more **** at anyone who doesn't meet
>his criteria or at someone who knows more than he does.
>As usual.

You may be able to baffle us all with your bull**** about biochemistry
(or whatever it is you waffle on endlessly about) Elzi, but when you
move into things equine you are well and truly into my territory.

If you only knew about my intense involvement with horses, you would
cringe with embarrassment at the things you have said you silly
woman!!

I have ridden to hounds since I was a small boy, as have all my family
and that of my wife, who is also a competitive rider. I had my first
pony about the time I started walking. I have competed in three day
eventing, show jumping, cross country and point to point, as well as
being a joint master of a pack of fox hounds!!

How about telling us again how you clench the alternate cheeks of your
arse to steer your mount; I've had so many laughs with that since you
printed it!! <s******>

Do have a good weekend dear - you know I will!! ;o)

TFIF!!

John HUDSON
June 18th 04, 10:30 PM
On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 19:34:56 GMT, "Lee Michaels"
> wrote:

>
>"Elzinator" > wrote in message
m...
>> (Axel of the North!) wrote in message
>...
>> > On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:52:01 +0100, John HUDSON >
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > >On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:15:35 -0500, elzinator
>> > > wrote:
>> > >
>> > >>On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 07:17:50 -0400, Hoff wrote:
>> > >>>"elzinator" > wrote in message
>> >
>> > >>>> The secret is to keep a 'soft' seat. i.e. relax your torso, low
>back
>> > >>>> and glutes. Let the horse and its back move unrestricted underneath
>> > >>>> you . Your seat is supposed to be an extension of the horses back,
>> > >>>> tightening only to cue the horse to change leads, speed or stop.
>Other
>> > >>>> than that, keep the glutes loose ( relaxed :) and you wont get
>sore.
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> When you tighten up, the horse is uncomfortable and responds by
>> > >>>> hollowing its back, which makes for a bumpy ride: they can't
>collect
>> > >>>> themselves underneath a hollow back. You get bumped, and they hurt
>> > >>>> worse and it goes downhill from there.
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> When you can tighten one glute, keeping the other relaxed and the
>> > >>>> horse responds by bending to the side, you know you have his
>> > >>>> attention. (a good horse is trained to move away from pressure; a
>good
>> > >>>> rider uses the seat to 'talk' to the horse).
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>>Yeah, yeah. I've been getting these "lessons" from Sharon, too.
>> > >>
>> > >>It won't be as much an issue for you, since most riding stables use
>> > >>western saddles. However, when riding bareback or dressage, slight and
>> > >>subtle shifts in weight, touches, etc can 'mean' something (i.e.
>> > >>communication).
>> > >
>> > >Says Elzi desperately trying to 'wriggle' out of her hilarious
>> > >instructions yesterday to talk to our mounts with our arses!! ;o)
>>
>> JH obviously doesn't know how to ride horses well. His derision serves
>> only as an opportunity to sling more **** at anyone who doesn't meet
>> his criteria or at someone who knows more than he does.
>> As usual.
>
>What is the matter Axis of Stupidity?? Does a woman who knows horses seem
>to you be an oldtimer comsumed with anger??
>
>Is being profoundly ignorant rewarding at all?
>
>Again, the theme is the same. When someone who has any kind of specialized
>knowledge talks, you go into ridicule mode. Is it still a great mystery why
>you and Hudson are killfiled by so many?

Hallo! It's Mr Angry again, banging on as usual about the dreaded
"killfiles"!!

There is no point being "killfiled" by you Mr Angry, or being ignored
by you, as you still can't resist taking the bait can you, you silly
old *******!!

Have a guess who is taking the **** out of who? <S>

Have a great weekend Lee and reflect on your stupidity, which is
largely as David said earlier, that you are completely devoid of any
humour!!

If you don't stop this silliness I may have to "killfile" *you*!!
PLONK - oops, now I've been and gone and done it!! **** your luck
mate; get out of that!! <VBG>

Do have a great weekend old man - I intend to!! ;o)

TFIF!!

John HUDSON
June 18th 04, 10:30 PM
On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 19:34:56 GMT, "Lee Michaels"
> wrote:

>
>"Elzinator" > wrote in message
m...
>> (Axel of the North!) wrote in message
>...
>> > On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:52:01 +0100, John HUDSON >
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > >On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:15:35 -0500, elzinator
>> > > wrote:
>> > >
>> > >>On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 07:17:50 -0400, Hoff wrote:
>> > >>>"elzinator" > wrote in message
>> >
>> > >>>> The secret is to keep a 'soft' seat. i.e. relax your torso, low
>back
>> > >>>> and glutes. Let the horse and its back move unrestricted underneath
>> > >>>> you . Your seat is supposed to be an extension of the horses back,
>> > >>>> tightening only to cue the horse to change leads, speed or stop.
>Other
>> > >>>> than that, keep the glutes loose ( relaxed :) and you wont get
>sore.
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> When you tighten up, the horse is uncomfortable and responds by
>> > >>>> hollowing its back, which makes for a bumpy ride: they can't
>collect
>> > >>>> themselves underneath a hollow back. You get bumped, and they hurt
>> > >>>> worse and it goes downhill from there.
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> When you can tighten one glute, keeping the other relaxed and the
>> > >>>> horse responds by bending to the side, you know you have his
>> > >>>> attention. (a good horse is trained to move away from pressure; a
>good
>> > >>>> rider uses the seat to 'talk' to the horse).
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>>Yeah, yeah. I've been getting these "lessons" from Sharon, too.
>> > >>
>> > >>It won't be as much an issue for you, since most riding stables use
>> > >>western saddles. However, when riding bareback or dressage, slight and
>> > >>subtle shifts in weight, touches, etc can 'mean' something (i.e.
>> > >>communication).
>> > >
>> > >Says Elzi desperately trying to 'wriggle' out of her hilarious
>> > >instructions yesterday to talk to our mounts with our arses!! ;o)
>>
>> JH obviously doesn't know how to ride horses well. His derision serves
>> only as an opportunity to sling more **** at anyone who doesn't meet
>> his criteria or at someone who knows more than he does.
>> As usual.
>
>What is the matter Axis of Stupidity?? Does a woman who knows horses seem
>to you be an oldtimer comsumed with anger??
>
>Is being profoundly ignorant rewarding at all?
>
>Again, the theme is the same. When someone who has any kind of specialized
>knowledge talks, you go into ridicule mode. Is it still a great mystery why
>you and Hudson are killfiled by so many?

Hallo! It's Mr Angry again, banging on as usual about the dreaded
"killfiles"!!

There is no point being "killfiled" by you Mr Angry, or being ignored
by you, as you still can't resist taking the bait can you, you silly
old *******!!

Have a guess who is taking the **** out of who? <S>

Have a great weekend Lee and reflect on your stupidity, which is
largely as David said earlier, that you are completely devoid of any
humour!!

If you don't stop this silliness I may have to "killfile" *you*!!
PLONK - oops, now I've been and gone and done it!! **** your luck
mate; get out of that!! <VBG>

Do have a great weekend old man - I intend to!! ;o)

TFIF!!

John HUDSON
June 18th 04, 10:38 PM
On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 19:54:04 GMT, (Axel of the North!)
wrote:

>On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 08:06:02 +0100, John HUDSON >
>wrote:
>
>>> i've gotten the impression through
>>>various media that you guys are very much the buggers.
>>
>>If you mean in the literal sense of the word as in 'sodomy', you may
>>perhaps be over generalising. My own personal opinion suggests that
>>the bum/arse/ass should be limited strictly to the purpose designed by
>>nature, viz: no entry, exit only!!
>
>yeah. well, i'm a "barry-morph" so i usually get the impression from
>the sexually active women that i can have the rear while they have
>their dear (if you know what i mean). that and oral. i'm a regular
>egyptian house-slave...
>
>>
>>Departures from this primary use to other recreational probings, could
>>result in the practitioner ending up in the ****!!
>
>yeah. i bet a really big, tall woman would just bend over, flip up her
>skirt and say "have at it, then." and i'd thrust in and she'd say:
>"are you in yet?"
>
>>
>>> (and yes i'm sure that Brazilians
>>>are worse than you guys in this respect)
>>
>>My knowledge of Brazil and "Brazilians" is limited to:
>>"And there's an awful lot of coffee in Brazil"!!
>
>world report for hudson: tons of bis in brazil. they like their women
>with smaller breasts and bigger butts. you'd think practically every
>woman from brazil has been sodomized a bazillion times.
>
>>>>
>>>>Well trained horses with highly skilled riders can and do perform
>>>>wonders in the competition arena, with all manner of body nuances. You
>>>>were offering advice to raw novices, on hired school horses, about to
>>>>go on a "trail ride"!!
>>>>
>>>>Your knowledge of horsemanship is at best sketchy, and at worst very
>>>>misleading and confusing to any newcomer to this wonderful sport!! As
>>>>usual your motive is to impress rather than to assist.
>
>maybe she got caught up in her enthusiasm. i'd agree from the horses
>that those on the trail, they can seem pretty miserable, they aren't
>very attentive or joyful in manner. i felt like i wasn't even
>important, that my input didn't matter. it was a kind of depressing
>experience.
>
>>>>[...]
>>>
>>>Let's gang up on her and beat her up!
>>
>>That's a bit strong Axel old chap; she is after all a fairly advanced
>>middle-aged woman, and although she attempts to convey that she can
>>**** bricks and fart miracles, I do believe that the reality is that
>>she may be a great deal more fragile than she admits.
>
>then we must give her LOVE!!!

She's a bit too old and beat up for my liking!! As Lieutenant Frank
Drebin once famously said: "Did she take one in the face?"!! ;o)

>
>>>You've got to organize your
>>>supportors, co-ordinate it through e-mail and launch attacks using raw
>>>numbers to overtake all the dreaded old timers who still have the
>>>nerve to openly oppose you!
>
>>I think the most dreadful punishment for these "old timers" is to
>>consign them to the dreaded "killfiles"; that's the only language they
>>understand dear boy!! "Killfile" the buggers I say!!
>
>taste their own medicine. well, i suppose that's standard for this
>universe.
>
>>>
>>>All must pay for their slights against Hudson!
>>
>>Bloody right mate; give as good as you get - and then some!! Do as you
>>would be done by nil desperandum!!
>>
>>Fight the good fight until they get the message, and then ram it up
>>them some more!! "Killfile" the buggers I say!!
>>
>>> BO)
>>
>>"BO) ??
>
>that's a smiling dude with a big nose wearing glasses. i can't figure
>out how to make them sunglasses in ascii text.
>
>>
>>Now you have a great weekend Axel, because you know I intend to!! ;o)
>>
>>TFIF!!
>>
>>[as trolls go, you don't do a bad job]
>
>wow! coming from the biggest, baddest, indurate troll of mfw that's a
>big compliment!

Keep up the good work my boy and have a great weekend - I will!! ;o)

TFIF!!

John HUDSON
June 18th 04, 10:38 PM
On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 19:54:04 GMT, (Axel of the North!)
wrote:

>On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 08:06:02 +0100, John HUDSON >
>wrote:
>
>>> i've gotten the impression through
>>>various media that you guys are very much the buggers.
>>
>>If you mean in the literal sense of the word as in 'sodomy', you may
>>perhaps be over generalising. My own personal opinion suggests that
>>the bum/arse/ass should be limited strictly to the purpose designed by
>>nature, viz: no entry, exit only!!
>
>yeah. well, i'm a "barry-morph" so i usually get the impression from
>the sexually active women that i can have the rear while they have
>their dear (if you know what i mean). that and oral. i'm a regular
>egyptian house-slave...
>
>>
>>Departures from this primary use to other recreational probings, could
>>result in the practitioner ending up in the ****!!
>
>yeah. i bet a really big, tall woman would just bend over, flip up her
>skirt and say "have at it, then." and i'd thrust in and she'd say:
>"are you in yet?"
>
>>
>>> (and yes i'm sure that Brazilians
>>>are worse than you guys in this respect)
>>
>>My knowledge of Brazil and "Brazilians" is limited to:
>>"And there's an awful lot of coffee in Brazil"!!
>
>world report for hudson: tons of bis in brazil. they like their women
>with smaller breasts and bigger butts. you'd think practically every
>woman from brazil has been sodomized a bazillion times.
>
>>>>
>>>>Well trained horses with highly skilled riders can and do perform
>>>>wonders in the competition arena, with all manner of body nuances. You
>>>>were offering advice to raw novices, on hired school horses, about to
>>>>go on a "trail ride"!!
>>>>
>>>>Your knowledge of horsemanship is at best sketchy, and at worst very
>>>>misleading and confusing to any newcomer to this wonderful sport!! As
>>>>usual your motive is to impress rather than to assist.
>
>maybe she got caught up in her enthusiasm. i'd agree from the horses
>that those on the trail, they can seem pretty miserable, they aren't
>very attentive or joyful in manner. i felt like i wasn't even
>important, that my input didn't matter. it was a kind of depressing
>experience.
>
>>>>[...]
>>>
>>>Let's gang up on her and beat her up!
>>
>>That's a bit strong Axel old chap; she is after all a fairly advanced
>>middle-aged woman, and although she attempts to convey that she can
>>**** bricks and fart miracles, I do believe that the reality is that
>>she may be a great deal more fragile than she admits.
>
>then we must give her LOVE!!!

She's a bit too old and beat up for my liking!! As Lieutenant Frank
Drebin once famously said: "Did she take one in the face?"!! ;o)

>
>>>You've got to organize your
>>>supportors, co-ordinate it through e-mail and launch attacks using raw
>>>numbers to overtake all the dreaded old timers who still have the
>>>nerve to openly oppose you!
>
>>I think the most dreadful punishment for these "old timers" is to
>>consign them to the dreaded "killfiles"; that's the only language they
>>understand dear boy!! "Killfile" the buggers I say!!
>
>taste their own medicine. well, i suppose that's standard for this
>universe.
>
>>>
>>>All must pay for their slights against Hudson!
>>
>>Bloody right mate; give as good as you get - and then some!! Do as you
>>would be done by nil desperandum!!
>>
>>Fight the good fight until they get the message, and then ram it up
>>them some more!! "Killfile" the buggers I say!!
>>
>>> BO)
>>
>>"BO) ??
>
>that's a smiling dude with a big nose wearing glasses. i can't figure
>out how to make them sunglasses in ascii text.
>
>>
>>Now you have a great weekend Axel, because you know I intend to!! ;o)
>>
>>TFIF!!
>>
>>[as trolls go, you don't do a bad job]
>
>wow! coming from the biggest, baddest, indurate troll of mfw that's a
>big compliment!

Keep up the good work my boy and have a great weekend - I will!! ;o)

TFIF!!

Keith Hobman
June 19th 04, 02:49 AM
In article >,
(Elzinator) wrote:

> (Axel of the North!) wrote in message
>...
> > On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:52:01 +0100, John HUDSON >
> > wrote:
> >
> > >On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:15:35 -0500, elzinator
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >>On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 07:17:50 -0400, Hoff wrote:
> > >>>"elzinator" > wrote in message
> >
> > >>>> The secret is to keep a 'soft' seat. i.e. relax your torso, low back
> > >>>> and glutes. Let the horse and its back move unrestricted underneath
> > >>>> you . Your seat is supposed to be an extension of the horses back,
> > >>>> tightening only to cue the horse to change leads, speed or stop. Other
> > >>>> than that, keep the glutes loose ( relaxed :) and you wont get sore.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> When you tighten up, the horse is uncomfortable and responds by
> > >>>> hollowing its back, which makes for a bumpy ride: they can't collect
> > >>>> themselves underneath a hollow back. You get bumped, and they hurt
> > >>>> worse and it goes downhill from there.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> When you can tighten one glute, keeping the other relaxed and the
> > >>>> horse responds by bending to the side, you know you have his
> > >>>> attention. (a good horse is trained to move away from pressure; a good
> > >>>> rider uses the seat to 'talk' to the horse).
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>>Yeah, yeah. I've been getting these "lessons" from Sharon, too.
> > >>
> > >>It won't be as much an issue for you, since most riding stables use
> > >>western saddles. However, when riding bareback or dressage, slight and
> > >>subtle shifts in weight, touches, etc can 'mean' something (i.e.
> > >>communication).
> > >
> > >Says Elzi desperately trying to 'wriggle' out of her hilarious
> > >instructions yesterday to talk to our mounts with our arses!! ;o)
>
> JH obviously doesn't know how to ride horses well. His derision serves
> only as an opportunity to sling more **** at anyone who doesn't meet
> his criteria or at someone who knows more than he does.
> As usual.

I'm not sure in an english saddle you can use the knees and legs like a
western outfit. I've never ridden an english type of outfit. I suspect
John would be a little suprised if he saw a calf roper, where they don't
even use their hands to steer the horse.

Of course, them roping horses are smarter than some people...

Keith Hobman
June 19th 04, 02:49 AM
In article >,
(Elzinator) wrote:

> (Axel of the North!) wrote in message
>...
> > On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:52:01 +0100, John HUDSON >
> > wrote:
> >
> > >On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:15:35 -0500, elzinator
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >>On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 07:17:50 -0400, Hoff wrote:
> > >>>"elzinator" > wrote in message
> >
> > >>>> The secret is to keep a 'soft' seat. i.e. relax your torso, low back
> > >>>> and glutes. Let the horse and its back move unrestricted underneath
> > >>>> you . Your seat is supposed to be an extension of the horses back,
> > >>>> tightening only to cue the horse to change leads, speed or stop. Other
> > >>>> than that, keep the glutes loose ( relaxed :) and you wont get sore.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> When you tighten up, the horse is uncomfortable and responds by
> > >>>> hollowing its back, which makes for a bumpy ride: they can't collect
> > >>>> themselves underneath a hollow back. You get bumped, and they hurt
> > >>>> worse and it goes downhill from there.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> When you can tighten one glute, keeping the other relaxed and the
> > >>>> horse responds by bending to the side, you know you have his
> > >>>> attention. (a good horse is trained to move away from pressure; a good
> > >>>> rider uses the seat to 'talk' to the horse).
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>>Yeah, yeah. I've been getting these "lessons" from Sharon, too.
> > >>
> > >>It won't be as much an issue for you, since most riding stables use
> > >>western saddles. However, when riding bareback or dressage, slight and
> > >>subtle shifts in weight, touches, etc can 'mean' something (i.e.
> > >>communication).
> > >
> > >Says Elzi desperately trying to 'wriggle' out of her hilarious
> > >instructions yesterday to talk to our mounts with our arses!! ;o)
>
> JH obviously doesn't know how to ride horses well. His derision serves
> only as an opportunity to sling more **** at anyone who doesn't meet
> his criteria or at someone who knows more than he does.
> As usual.

I'm not sure in an english saddle you can use the knees and legs like a
western outfit. I've never ridden an english type of outfit. I suspect
John would be a little suprised if he saw a calf roper, where they don't
even use their hands to steer the horse.

Of course, them roping horses are smarter than some people...

Kevin Kane
June 19th 04, 03:30 AM
Oh, athletes as ripped as the accounting documents at Enron, cut like
a classic jigsaw puzzle, sculpted like a Greek God...is it a crime to
want have an outstanding, picturesque physique ? Is it a crime to set
physical, measurable goals and achieve them through determination,
dedication and training? Is is a crime to be objective, thought
provoking and rational?

I thought not.

Ignore all the non believers. You too can have my physique or one
like it if you have dedication, persistence and hard work.

Visit my website as a tribute to evolution, greatness, and
individualism.

Thanks

Kevin

arts.uwaterloo.ca/~kkane

P.S. Who is Neal Fabian ? A fitness model of outstanding proportions
?




>
> I disagree. Adam looked like he ATE the Delusional One.
>
> What is really sad is that the Delusional One is clearly never going
> to be a successful amateur bodybuilder, except at the local level. But
> I bet all his friends and family keep encouraging him, feeding the
> delusion. It's like those horrid singers on American Idol. You just
> know they're being encouraged by well-meaning, ignorant, friends and
> family.
>
> The Delusional One needs a Simon Cowell-type person to tell him the
> truth. He'll never believe us.
>
> David

Kevin Kane
June 19th 04, 03:30 AM
Oh, athletes as ripped as the accounting documents at Enron, cut like
a classic jigsaw puzzle, sculpted like a Greek God...is it a crime to
want have an outstanding, picturesque physique ? Is it a crime to set
physical, measurable goals and achieve them through determination,
dedication and training? Is is a crime to be objective, thought
provoking and rational?

I thought not.

Ignore all the non believers. You too can have my physique or one
like it if you have dedication, persistence and hard work.

Visit my website as a tribute to evolution, greatness, and
individualism.

Thanks

Kevin

arts.uwaterloo.ca/~kkane

P.S. Who is Neal Fabian ? A fitness model of outstanding proportions
?




>
> I disagree. Adam looked like he ATE the Delusional One.
>
> What is really sad is that the Delusional One is clearly never going
> to be a successful amateur bodybuilder, except at the local level. But
> I bet all his friends and family keep encouraging him, feeding the
> delusion. It's like those horrid singers on American Idol. You just
> know they're being encouraged by well-meaning, ignorant, friends and
> family.
>
> The Delusional One needs a Simon Cowell-type person to tell him the
> truth. He'll never believe us.
>
> David

David Cohen
June 19th 04, 03:50 AM
"Kevin Kane" > wrote
> Oh, athletes as ripped as the accounting documents at Enron, cut
like
> a classic jigsaw puzzle, sculpted like a Greek God

Bacchus?

> ...is it a crime to
> want have an outstanding, picturesque physique ? Is it a crime to
set
> physical, measurable goals and achieve them through determination,
> dedication and training? Is is a crime to be objective, thought
> provoking and rational?

If being objective, thought provoking, and rational were crimes, you
are surely not guilty.

> I thought not.

No kidding!

> Ignore all the non believers. You too can have my physique or one
> like it if you have dedication, persistence and hard work.

If the voices in your head continue to post, I'm killfiling you.
>
> Visit my website as a tribute to evolution, greatness, and
> individualism.

Yes. You are an inspiration. Spending 24 hours a day, 365 days a year,
striving to be a mediocre, local, ametuer, bodybuilder, is
awe-inspiring. Keep up the good work.

> Thanks
>
> Kevin
>
> www.arts.uwaterloo.ca/~kkane


[i]
> P.S. Who is Neal Fabian ? A fitness model of outstanding
proportions ?

Yes. Very much like yourself.

David
--
"Thus, I'd say you effectively got it backwards."-Wayne S Hill

David Cohen
June 19th 04, 03:50 AM
"Kevin Kane" > wrote
> Oh, athletes as ripped as the accounting documents at Enron, cut
like
> a classic jigsaw puzzle, sculpted like a Greek God

Bacchus?

> ...is it a crime to
> want have an outstanding, picturesque physique ? Is it a crime to
set
> physical, measurable goals and achieve them through determination,
> dedication and training? Is is a crime to be objective, thought
> provoking and rational?

If being objective, thought provoking, and rational were crimes, you
are surely not guilty.

> I thought not.

No kidding!

> Ignore all the non believers. You too can have my physique or one
> like it if you have dedication, persistence and hard work.

If the voices in your head continue to post, I'm killfiling you.
>
> Visit my website as a tribute to evolution, greatness, and
> individualism.

Yes. You are an inspiration. Spending 24 hours a day, 365 days a year,
striving to be a mediocre, local, ametuer, bodybuilder, is
awe-inspiring. Keep up the good work.

> Thanks
>
> Kevin
>
> www.arts.uwaterloo.ca/~kkane


[i]
> P.S. Who is Neal Fabian ? A fitness model of outstanding
proportions ?

Yes. Very much like yourself.

David
--
"Thus, I'd say you effectively got it backwards."-Wayne S Hill

Larry Hodges
June 19th 04, 07:35 AM
You're just an arrogant dick, nothing more.
--
-Larry

Larry Hodges
June 19th 04, 07:35 AM
You're just an arrogant dick, nothing more.
--
-Larry

John HUDSON
June 19th 04, 11:21 AM
On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 19:49:49 -0600, (Keith Hobman)
wrote:

>In article >,
(Elzinator) wrote:
>
>> (Axel of the North!) wrote in message
>...
>> > On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:52:01 +0100, John HUDSON >
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > >On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:15:35 -0500, elzinator
>> > > wrote:
>> > >
>> > >>On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 07:17:50 -0400, Hoff wrote:
>> > >>>"elzinator" > wrote in message
>> >
>> > >>>> The secret is to keep a 'soft' seat. i.e. relax your torso, low back
>> > >>>> and glutes. Let the horse and its back move unrestricted underneath
>> > >>>> you . Your seat is supposed to be an extension of the horses back,
>> > >>>> tightening only to cue the horse to change leads, speed or stop. Other
>> > >>>> than that, keep the glutes loose ( relaxed :) and you wont get sore.
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> When you tighten up, the horse is uncomfortable and responds by
>> > >>>> hollowing its back, which makes for a bumpy ride: they can't collect
>> > >>>> themselves underneath a hollow back. You get bumped, and they hurt
>> > >>>> worse and it goes downhill from there.
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> When you can tighten one glute, keeping the other relaxed and the
>> > >>>> horse responds by bending to the side, you know you have his
>> > >>>> attention. (a good horse is trained to move away from pressure; a good
>> > >>>> rider uses the seat to 'talk' to the horse).
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>>Yeah, yeah. I've been getting these "lessons" from Sharon, too.
>> > >>
>> > >>It won't be as much an issue for you, since most riding stables use
>> > >>western saddles. However, when riding bareback or dressage, slight and
>> > >>subtle shifts in weight, touches, etc can 'mean' something (i.e.
>> > >>communication).
>> > >
>> > >Says Elzi desperately trying to 'wriggle' out of her hilarious
>> > >instructions yesterday to talk to our mounts with our arses!! ;o)
>>
>> JH obviously doesn't know how to ride horses well. His derision serves
>> only as an opportunity to sling more **** at anyone who doesn't meet
>> his criteria or at someone who knows more than he does.
>> As usual.
>
>I'm not sure in an english saddle you can use the knees and legs like a
>western outfit.

You certainly can Keith, for it is the "knees and legs" together with
the feet in the stirrups and the impulsion through the seat that is
the very basis of mount control.

However, "impulsion" has nothing to do with squeezing alternate bum
cheeks!! ;o)

>I've never ridden an english type of outfit. I suspect
>John would be a little suprised if he saw a calf roper, where they don't
>even use their hands to steer the horse.

I have, and have been very impressed at he skill and teamwork between
horse and rider. Most cattle type horses are of what we call 'pony
size' and similar skills are achieved in polo with similar size
mounts.

I have played polo to a reasonable standard, and there is the similar
reliance on a well trained polo pony, responding to the rider
instinctively, with little conveyed via the reins other than
side-reining on the neck.

>
>Of course, them roping horses are smarter than some people...

Horses are wonderful animals and many much nicer than some people I
know!! ;o)

Have a great weekend!! ;o)

John HUDSON
June 19th 04, 11:21 AM
On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 19:49:49 -0600, (Keith Hobman)
wrote:

>In article >,
(Elzinator) wrote:
>
>> (Axel of the North!) wrote in message
>...
>> > On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:52:01 +0100, John HUDSON >
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > >On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:15:35 -0500, elzinator
>> > > wrote:
>> > >
>> > >>On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 07:17:50 -0400, Hoff wrote:
>> > >>>"elzinator" > wrote in message
>> >
>> > >>>> The secret is to keep a 'soft' seat. i.e. relax your torso, low back
>> > >>>> and glutes. Let the horse and its back move unrestricted underneath
>> > >>>> you . Your seat is supposed to be an extension of the horses back,
>> > >>>> tightening only to cue the horse to change leads, speed or stop. Other
>> > >>>> than that, keep the glutes loose ( relaxed :) and you wont get sore.
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> When you tighten up, the horse is uncomfortable and responds by
>> > >>>> hollowing its back, which makes for a bumpy ride: they can't collect
>> > >>>> themselves underneath a hollow back. You get bumped, and they hurt
>> > >>>> worse and it goes downhill from there.
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> When you can tighten one glute, keeping the other relaxed and the
>> > >>>> horse responds by bending to the side, you know you have his
>> > >>>> attention. (a good horse is trained to move away from pressure; a good
>> > >>>> rider uses the seat to 'talk' to the horse).
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>>Yeah, yeah. I've been getting these "lessons" from Sharon, too.
>> > >>
>> > >>It won't be as much an issue for you, since most riding stables use
>> > >>western saddles. However, when riding bareback or dressage, slight and
>> > >>subtle shifts in weight, touches, etc can 'mean' something (i.e.
>> > >>communication).
>> > >
>> > >Says Elzi desperately trying to 'wriggle' out of her hilarious
>> > >instructions yesterday to talk to our mounts with our arses!! ;o)
>>
>> JH obviously doesn't know how to ride horses well. His derision serves
>> only as an opportunity to sling more **** at anyone who doesn't meet
>> his criteria or at someone who knows more than he does.
>> As usual.
>
>I'm not sure in an english saddle you can use the knees and legs like a
>western outfit.

You certainly can Keith, for it is the "knees and legs" together with
the feet in the stirrups and the impulsion through the seat that is
the very basis of mount control.

However, "impulsion" has nothing to do with squeezing alternate bum
cheeks!! ;o)

>I've never ridden an english type of outfit. I suspect
>John would be a little suprised if he saw a calf roper, where they don't
>even use their hands to steer the horse.

I have, and have been very impressed at he skill and teamwork between
horse and rider. Most cattle type horses are of what we call 'pony
size' and similar skills are achieved in polo with similar size
mounts.

I have played polo to a reasonable standard, and there is the similar
reliance on a well trained polo pony, responding to the rider
instinctively, with little conveyed via the reins other than
side-reining on the neck.

>
>Of course, them roping horses are smarter than some people...

Horses are wonderful animals and many much nicer than some people I
know!! ;o)

Have a great weekend!! ;o)

Hoff
June 19th 04, 02:05 PM
"Keith Hobman" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> (Elzinator) wrote:
>
> > (Axel of the North!) wrote in message
> >...
> > > On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:52:01 +0100, John HUDSON >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:15:35 -0500, elzinator
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >>On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 07:17:50 -0400, Hoff wrote:
> > > >>>"elzinator" > wrote in message
> > >
> > > >>>> The secret is to keep a 'soft' seat. i.e. relax your torso, low
back
> > > >>>> and glutes. Let the horse and its back move unrestricted
underneath
> > > >>>> you . Your seat is supposed to be an extension of the horses
back,
> > > >>>> tightening only to cue the horse to change leads, speed or stop.
Other
> > > >>>> than that, keep the glutes loose ( relaxed :) and you wont get
sore.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> When you tighten up, the horse is uncomfortable and responds by
> > > >>>> hollowing its back, which makes for a bumpy ride: they can't
collect
> > > >>>> themselves underneath a hollow back. You get bumped, and they
hurt
> > > >>>> worse and it goes downhill from there.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> When you can tighten one glute, keeping the other relaxed and the
> > > >>>> horse responds by bending to the side, you know you have his
> > > >>>> attention. (a good horse is trained to move away from pressure; a
good
> > > >>>> rider uses the seat to 'talk' to the horse).
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>Yeah, yeah. I've been getting these "lessons" from Sharon, too.
> > > >>
> > > >>It won't be as much an issue for you, since most riding stables use
> > > >>western saddles. However, when riding bareback or dressage, slight
and
> > > >>subtle shifts in weight, touches, etc can 'mean' something (i.e.
> > > >>communication).
> > > >
> > > >Says Elzi desperately trying to 'wriggle' out of her hilarious
> > > >instructions yesterday to talk to our mounts with our arses!! ;o)
> >
> > JH obviously doesn't know how to ride horses well. His derision serves
> > only as an opportunity to sling more **** at anyone who doesn't meet
> > his criteria or at someone who knows more than he does.
> > As usual.
>
> I'm not sure in an english saddle you can use the knees and legs like a
> western outfit. I've never ridden an english type of outfit. I suspect
> John would be a little suprised if he saw a calf roper, where they don't
> even use their hands to steer the horse.
>
> Of course, them roping horses are smarter than some people...

Well, according to Sharon, dressage uses english saddles, and you use leg
commands far more than rein commands.

You'll have to look further to find excuses for HUDSON.

Hoff

Hoff
June 19th 04, 02:05 PM
"Keith Hobman" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> (Elzinator) wrote:
>
> > (Axel of the North!) wrote in message
> >...
> > > On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:52:01 +0100, John HUDSON >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:15:35 -0500, elzinator
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >>On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 07:17:50 -0400, Hoff wrote:
> > > >>>"elzinator" > wrote in message
> > >
> > > >>>> The secret is to keep a 'soft' seat. i.e. relax your torso, low
back
> > > >>>> and glutes. Let the horse and its back move unrestricted
underneath
> > > >>>> you . Your seat is supposed to be an extension of the horses
back,
> > > >>>> tightening only to cue the horse to change leads, speed or stop.
Other
> > > >>>> than that, keep the glutes loose ( relaxed :) and you wont get
sore.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> When you tighten up, the horse is uncomfortable and responds by
> > > >>>> hollowing its back, which makes for a bumpy ride: they can't
collect
> > > >>>> themselves underneath a hollow back. You get bumped, and they
hurt
> > > >>>> worse and it goes downhill from there.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> When you can tighten one glute, keeping the other relaxed and the
> > > >>>> horse responds by bending to the side, you know you have his
> > > >>>> attention. (a good horse is trained to move away from pressure; a
good
> > > >>>> rider uses the seat to 'talk' to the horse).
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>Yeah, yeah. I've been getting these "lessons" from Sharon, too.
> > > >>
> > > >>It won't be as much an issue for you, since most riding stables use
> > > >>western saddles. However, when riding bareback or dressage, slight
and
> > > >>subtle shifts in weight, touches, etc can 'mean' something (i.e.
> > > >>communication).
> > > >
> > > >Says Elzi desperately trying to 'wriggle' out of her hilarious
> > > >instructions yesterday to talk to our mounts with our arses!! ;o)
> >
> > JH obviously doesn't know how to ride horses well. His derision serves
> > only as an opportunity to sling more **** at anyone who doesn't meet
> > his criteria or at someone who knows more than he does.
> > As usual.
>
> I'm not sure in an english saddle you can use the knees and legs like a
> western outfit. I've never ridden an english type of outfit. I suspect
> John would be a little suprised if he saw a calf roper, where they don't
> even use their hands to steer the horse.
>
> Of course, them roping horses are smarter than some people...

Well, according to Sharon, dressage uses english saddles, and you use leg
commands far more than rein commands.

You'll have to look further to find excuses for HUDSON.

Hoff

John HUDSON
June 19th 04, 03:15 PM
On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 09:05:57 -0400, "Hoff" >
wrote:

>"Keith Hobman" > wrote in message
...
>> In article >,
>> (Elzinator) wrote:
>>
>> > (Axel of the North!) wrote in message
>> >...
>> > > On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:52:01 +0100, John HUDSON >
>> > > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > >On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:15:35 -0500, elzinator
>> > > > wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > >>On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 07:17:50 -0400, Hoff wrote:
>> > > >>>"elzinator" > wrote in message
>> > >
>> > > >>>> The secret is to keep a 'soft' seat. i.e. relax your torso, low
>back
>> > > >>>> and glutes. Let the horse and its back move unrestricted
>underneath
>> > > >>>> you . Your seat is supposed to be an extension of the horses
>back,
>> > > >>>> tightening only to cue the horse to change leads, speed or stop.
>Other
>> > > >>>> than that, keep the glutes loose ( relaxed :) and you wont get
>sore.
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> When you tighten up, the horse is uncomfortable and responds by
>> > > >>>> hollowing its back, which makes for a bumpy ride: they can't
>collect
>> > > >>>> themselves underneath a hollow back. You get bumped, and they
>hurt
>> > > >>>> worse and it goes downhill from there.
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> When you can tighten one glute, keeping the other relaxed and the
>> > > >>>> horse responds by bending to the side, you know you have his
>> > > >>>> attention. (a good horse is trained to move away from pressure; a
>good
>> > > >>>> rider uses the seat to 'talk' to the horse).
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>>Yeah, yeah. I've been getting these "lessons" from Sharon, too.
>> > > >>
>> > > >>It won't be as much an issue for you, since most riding stables use
>> > > >>western saddles. However, when riding bareback or dressage, slight
>and
>> > > >>subtle shifts in weight, touches, etc can 'mean' something (i.e.
>> > > >>communication).
>> > > >
>> > > >Says Elzi desperately trying to 'wriggle' out of her hilarious
>> > > >instructions yesterday to talk to our mounts with our arses!! ;o)
>> >
>> > JH obviously doesn't know how to ride horses well. His derision serves
>> > only as an opportunity to sling more **** at anyone who doesn't meet
>> > his criteria or at someone who knows more than he does.
>> > As usual.
>>
>> I'm not sure in an english saddle you can use the knees and legs like a
>> western outfit. I've never ridden an english type of outfit. I suspect
>> John would be a little suprised if he saw a calf roper, where they don't
>> even use their hands to steer the horse.
>>
>> Of course, them roping horses are smarter than some people...
>
>Well, according to Sharon, dressage uses english saddles, and you use leg
>commands far more than rein commands.
>
>You'll have to look further to find excuses for HUDSON.

No need for anyone to make excuses for me; go back in the thread Hoffy
dear and read what I said. I made no comment which would indicate that
"rein commands" are the primary method of control!!

I know won't admit you're wrong, so here is just one excerpt from what
I have said in response to Elzi's idiocy:

"Schooled horses will respond to pressure from thighs, knees, calves
and feet (heels or toes), as they will to disposition of body weight,
and control of the reins on the horse's mouth, nose and neck as in
side-reining."

You may well be very much more well-informed than I am about computers
and all things cyber, but I am on very firm ground with equitation
following a lifetime involvement with horses; you would do well not to
challenge me on this topic, lest you make an even bigger prick of
yourself!!

John HUDSON
June 19th 04, 03:15 PM
On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 09:05:57 -0400, "Hoff" >
wrote:

>"Keith Hobman" > wrote in message
...
>> In article >,
>> (Elzinator) wrote:
>>
>> > (Axel of the North!) wrote in message
>> >...
>> > > On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:52:01 +0100, John HUDSON >
>> > > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > >On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:15:35 -0500, elzinator
>> > > > wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > >>On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 07:17:50 -0400, Hoff wrote:
>> > > >>>"elzinator" > wrote in message
>> > >
>> > > >>>> The secret is to keep a 'soft' seat. i.e. relax your torso, low
>back
>> > > >>>> and glutes. Let the horse and its back move unrestricted
>underneath
>> > > >>>> you . Your seat is supposed to be an extension of the horses
>back,
>> > > >>>> tightening only to cue the horse to change leads, speed or stop.
>Other
>> > > >>>> than that, keep the glutes loose ( relaxed :) and you wont get
>sore.
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> When you tighten up, the horse is uncomfortable and responds by
>> > > >>>> hollowing its back, which makes for a bumpy ride: they can't
>collect
>> > > >>>> themselves underneath a hollow back. You get bumped, and they
>hurt
>> > > >>>> worse and it goes downhill from there.
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> When you can tighten one glute, keeping the other relaxed and the
>> > > >>>> horse responds by bending to the side, you know you have his
>> > > >>>> attention. (a good horse is trained to move away from pressure; a
>good
>> > > >>>> rider uses the seat to 'talk' to the horse).
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>>Yeah, yeah. I've been getting these "lessons" from Sharon, too.
>> > > >>
>> > > >>It won't be as much an issue for you, since most riding stables use
>> > > >>western saddles. However, when riding bareback or dressage, slight
>and
>> > > >>subtle shifts in weight, touches, etc can 'mean' something (i.e.
>> > > >>communication).
>> > > >
>> > > >Says Elzi desperately trying to 'wriggle' out of her hilarious
>> > > >instructions yesterday to talk to our mounts with our arses!! ;o)
>> >
>> > JH obviously doesn't know how to ride horses well. His derision serves
>> > only as an opportunity to sling more **** at anyone who doesn't meet
>> > his criteria or at someone who knows more than he does.
>> > As usual.
>>
>> I'm not sure in an english saddle you can use the knees and legs like a
>> western outfit. I've never ridden an english type of outfit. I suspect
>> John would be a little suprised if he saw a calf roper, where they don't
>> even use their hands to steer the horse.
>>
>> Of course, them roping horses are smarter than some people...
>
>Well, according to Sharon, dressage uses english saddles, and you use leg
>commands far more than rein commands.
>
>You'll have to look further to find excuses for HUDSON.

No need for anyone to make excuses for me; go back in the thread Hoffy
dear and read what I said. I made no comment which would indicate that
"rein commands" are the primary method of control!!

I know won't admit you're wrong, so here is just one excerpt from what
I have said in response to Elzi's idiocy:

"Schooled horses will respond to pressure from thighs, knees, calves
and feet (heels or toes), as they will to disposition of body weight,
and control of the reins on the horse's mouth, nose and neck as in
side-reining."

You may well be very much more well-informed than I am about computers
and all things cyber, but I am on very firm ground with equitation
following a lifetime involvement with horses; you would do well not to
challenge me on this topic, lest you make an even bigger prick of
yourself!!

Kevin Kane
June 19th 04, 03:41 PM
Sigh. Larry -- I sense a bit of negativity floating around.

I suggest you check out:
http://www.arts.uwaterloo.ca/~kkane/quotes.html

At the above link are some of inspring quotes from great thinkers
including myself.

Note some of the quotes by Einstein:

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from
mediocre minds." - Albert Einstein

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from
mediocre minds." - Albert Einstein

and a few more from yours truly:

"One of the views of government that I oppose is the one that makes
some bureaucrats think, 'If it exists, tax it; it if moves, regulate
it; if it stops, subsidize it." - Kevin Kane

"Imprisoned underneath all of those layers of fat is a ripped physique
screaming to be let out!" - Kevin Kane

We don't always want to hear the truth. Sometimes we just prefer to
vent or to hear that which confirms our opinions or makes us feel
good. Hearing the truth can sometimes be painful, even offensive.
~Kevin Kane


I hope you enjoy the light of my positivity shining in on your dark,
negative parade.

Take care,

Kevin







"Larry Hodges" > wrote in message >...
> You're just an arrogant dick, nothing more.

Kevin Kane
June 19th 04, 03:41 PM
Sigh. Larry -- I sense a bit of negativity floating around.

I suggest you check out:
http://www.arts.uwaterloo.ca/~kkane/quotes.html

At the above link are some of inspring quotes from great thinkers
including myself.

Note some of the quotes by Einstein:

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from
mediocre minds." - Albert Einstein

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from
mediocre minds." - Albert Einstein

and a few more from yours truly:

"One of the views of government that I oppose is the one that makes
some bureaucrats think, 'If it exists, tax it; it if moves, regulate
it; if it stops, subsidize it." - Kevin Kane

"Imprisoned underneath all of those layers of fat is a ripped physique
screaming to be let out!" - Kevin Kane

We don't always want to hear the truth. Sometimes we just prefer to
vent or to hear that which confirms our opinions or makes us feel
good. Hearing the truth can sometimes be painful, even offensive.
~Kevin Kane


I hope you enjoy the light of my positivity shining in on your dark,
negative parade.

Take care,

Kevin







"Larry Hodges" > wrote in message >...
> You're just an arrogant dick, nothing more.

Keith Hobman
June 19th 04, 03:53 PM
In article >, "Hoff" >
wrote:

> "Keith Hobman" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >,
> > (Elzinator) wrote:
> >
> > > (Axel of the North!) wrote in message
> > >...
> > > > On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:52:01 +0100, John HUDSON >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:15:35 -0500, elzinator
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >>On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 07:17:50 -0400, Hoff wrote:
> > > > >>>"elzinator" > wrote in message
> > > >
> > > > >>>> The secret is to keep a 'soft' seat. i.e. relax your torso, low
> back
> > > > >>>> and glutes. Let the horse and its back move unrestricted
> underneath
> > > > >>>> you . Your seat is supposed to be an extension of the horses
> back,
> > > > >>>> tightening only to cue the horse to change leads, speed or stop.
> Other
> > > > >>>> than that, keep the glutes loose ( relaxed :) and you wont get
> sore.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> When you tighten up, the horse is uncomfortable and responds by
> > > > >>>> hollowing its back, which makes for a bumpy ride: they can't
> collect
> > > > >>>> themselves underneath a hollow back. You get bumped, and they
> hurt
> > > > >>>> worse and it goes downhill from there.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> When you can tighten one glute, keeping the other relaxed and the
> > > > >>>> horse responds by bending to the side, you know you have his
> > > > >>>> attention. (a good horse is trained to move away from pressure; a
> good
> > > > >>>> rider uses the seat to 'talk' to the horse).
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>Yeah, yeah. I've been getting these "lessons" from Sharon, too.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>It won't be as much an issue for you, since most riding stables use
> > > > >>western saddles. However, when riding bareback or dressage, slight
> and
> > > > >>subtle shifts in weight, touches, etc can 'mean' something (i.e.
> > > > >>communication).
> > > > >
> > > > >Says Elzi desperately trying to 'wriggle' out of her hilarious
> > > > >instructions yesterday to talk to our mounts with our arses!! ;o)
> > >
> > > JH obviously doesn't know how to ride horses well. His derision serves
> > > only as an opportunity to sling more **** at anyone who doesn't meet
> > > his criteria or at someone who knows more than he does.
> > > As usual.
> >
> > I'm not sure in an english saddle you can use the knees and legs like a
> > western outfit. I've never ridden an english type of outfit. I suspect
> > John would be a little suprised if he saw a calf roper, where they don't
> > even use their hands to steer the horse.
> >
> > Of course, them roping horses are smarter than some people...
>
> Well, according to Sharon, dressage uses english saddles, and you use leg
> commands far more than rein commands.
>
> You'll have to look further to find excuses for HUDSON.

I wasn't making an excuse for John, I was sticking up for Elzi. Her
steering a horse with her legs and arse seems perfectly reasonable to me.
And as I said - I've only ridden with quarterhorse rigs.

Or bareback on the Percherons. Something I don't recommend. The picture at
top are bred from the 2,200 stallion I rode.

http://www.naeric.org/news_view.asp?Action=2
And if you do get a list of National Finals rodeo from a few years back or
check Canadian champions in calf roping from the 80's you'll find some
Hobmans. Cousins, not me. But I have ridden a bit and still think that
clenching a cheek will input commands to a horse, although I suspect it is
because of the entire side tightening. But both Elzi and John are better
riders than me - if you can play polo at a decent level you can ride. And
John - Elzi doesn't bull****. If she writes it I believe it. Don't let
your emnity for 'the old boys club' cloud your judgement.

Keith Hobman
June 19th 04, 03:53 PM
In article >, "Hoff" >
wrote:

> "Keith Hobman" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >,
> > (Elzinator) wrote:
> >
> > > (Axel of the North!) wrote in message
> > >...
> > > > On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:52:01 +0100, John HUDSON >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:15:35 -0500, elzinator
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >>On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 07:17:50 -0400, Hoff wrote:
> > > > >>>"elzinator" > wrote in message
> > > >
> > > > >>>> The secret is to keep a 'soft' seat. i.e. relax your torso, low
> back
> > > > >>>> and glutes. Let the horse and its back move unrestricted
> underneath
> > > > >>>> you . Your seat is supposed to be an extension of the horses
> back,
> > > > >>>> tightening only to cue the horse to change leads, speed or stop.
> Other
> > > > >>>> than that, keep the glutes loose ( relaxed :) and you wont get
> sore.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> When you tighten up, the horse is uncomfortable and responds by
> > > > >>>> hollowing its back, which makes for a bumpy ride: they can't
> collect
> > > > >>>> themselves underneath a hollow back. You get bumped, and they
> hurt
> > > > >>>> worse and it goes downhill from there.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> When you can tighten one glute, keeping the other relaxed and the
> > > > >>>> horse responds by bending to the side, you know you have his
> > > > >>>> attention. (a good horse is trained to move away from pressure; a
> good
> > > > >>>> rider uses the seat to 'talk' to the horse).
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>Yeah, yeah. I've been getting these "lessons" from Sharon, too.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>It won't be as much an issue for you, since most riding stables use
> > > > >>western saddles. However, when riding bareback or dressage, slight
> and
> > > > >>subtle shifts in weight, touches, etc can 'mean' something (i.e.
> > > > >>communication).
> > > > >
> > > > >Says Elzi desperately trying to 'wriggle' out of her hilarious
> > > > >instructions yesterday to talk to our mounts with our arses!! ;o)
> > >
> > > JH obviously doesn't know how to ride horses well. His derision serves
> > > only as an opportunity to sling more **** at anyone who doesn't meet
> > > his criteria or at someone who knows more than he does.
> > > As usual.
> >
> > I'm not sure in an english saddle you can use the knees and legs like a
> > western outfit. I've never ridden an english type of outfit. I suspect
> > John would be a little suprised if he saw a calf roper, where they don't
> > even use their hands to steer the horse.
> >
> > Of course, them roping horses are smarter than some people...
>
> Well, according to Sharon, dressage uses english saddles, and you use leg
> commands far more than rein commands.
>
> You'll have to look further to find excuses for HUDSON.

I wasn't making an excuse for John, I was sticking up for Elzi. Her
steering a horse with her legs and arse seems perfectly reasonable to me.
And as I said - I've only ridden with quarterhorse rigs.

Or bareback on the Percherons. Something I don't recommend. The picture at
top are bred from the 2,200 stallion I rode.

http://www.naeric.org/news_view.asp?Action=2
And if you do get a list of National Finals rodeo from a few years back or
check Canadian champions in calf roping from the 80's you'll find some
Hobmans. Cousins, not me. But I have ridden a bit and still think that
clenching a cheek will input commands to a horse, although I suspect it is
because of the entire side tightening. But both Elzi and John are better
riders than me - if you can play polo at a decent level you can ride. And
John - Elzi doesn't bull****. If she writes it I believe it. Don't let
your emnity for 'the old boys club' cloud your judgement.

John HUDSON
June 19th 04, 04:30 PM
On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 08:53:52 -0600, (Keith Hobman)
wrote:

>In article >, "Hoff" >
>wrote:
>
>> "Keith Hobman" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > In article >,
>> > (Elzinator) wrote:
>> >
>> > > (Axel of the North!) wrote in message
>> > >...
>> > > > On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:52:01 +0100, John HUDSON >
>> > > > wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > >On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:15:35 -0500, elzinator
>> > > > > wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > >>On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 07:17:50 -0400, Hoff wrote:
>> > > > >>>"elzinator" > wrote in message
>> > > >
>> > > > >>>> The secret is to keep a 'soft' seat. i.e. relax your torso, low
>> back
>> > > > >>>> and glutes. Let the horse and its back move unrestricted
>> underneath
>> > > > >>>> you . Your seat is supposed to be an extension of the horses
>> back,
>> > > > >>>> tightening only to cue the horse to change leads, speed or stop.
>> Other
>> > > > >>>> than that, keep the glutes loose ( relaxed :) and you wont get
>> sore.
>> > > > >>>>
>> > > > >>>> When you tighten up, the horse is uncomfortable and responds by
>> > > > >>>> hollowing its back, which makes for a bumpy ride: they can't
>> collect
>> > > > >>>> themselves underneath a hollow back. You get bumped, and they
>> hurt
>> > > > >>>> worse and it goes downhill from there.
>> > > > >>>>
>> > > > >>>> When you can tighten one glute, keeping the other relaxed and the
>> > > > >>>> horse responds by bending to the side, you know you have his
>> > > > >>>> attention. (a good horse is trained to move away from pressure; a
>> good
>> > > > >>>> rider uses the seat to 'talk' to the horse).
>> > > > >>>>
>> > > > >>>
>> > > > >>>Yeah, yeah. I've been getting these "lessons" from Sharon, too.
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >>It won't be as much an issue for you, since most riding stables use
>> > > > >>western saddles. However, when riding bareback or dressage, slight
>> and
>> > > > >>subtle shifts in weight, touches, etc can 'mean' something (i.e.
>> > > > >>communication).
>> > > > >
>> > > > >Says Elzi desperately trying to 'wriggle' out of her hilarious
>> > > > >instructions yesterday to talk to our mounts with our arses!! ;o)
>> > >
>> > > JH obviously doesn't know how to ride horses well. His derision serves
>> > > only as an opportunity to sling more **** at anyone who doesn't meet
>> > > his criteria or at someone who knows more than he does.
>> > > As usual.
>> >
>> > I'm not sure in an english saddle you can use the knees and legs like a
>> > western outfit. I've never ridden an english type of outfit. I suspect
>> > John would be a little suprised if he saw a calf roper, where they don't
>> > even use their hands to steer the horse.
>> >
>> > Of course, them roping horses are smarter than some people...
>>
>> Well, according to Sharon, dressage uses english saddles, and you use leg
>> commands far more than rein commands.
>>
>> You'll have to look further to find excuses for HUDSON.
>
>I wasn't making an excuse for John, I was sticking up for Elzi. Her
>steering a horse with her legs and arse seems perfectly reasonable to me.
>And as I said - I've only ridden with quarterhorse rigs.

Applying pressure to one side of the saddle or the other, is achieved
by transference of bodyweight. The seat can be used in association
with the legs by shifting the centre of gravity from one side to the
other, which will aid lateral movement, collection, turning and the
transition to canter etc.

It has nothing whatsoever to do with clenching buttocks!!

>
>Or bareback on the Percherons. Something I don't recommend. The picture at
>top are bred from the 2,200 stallion I rode.
>
>http://www.naeric.org/news_view.asp?Action=2
>And if you do get a list of National Finals rodeo from a few years back or
>check Canadian champions in calf roping from the 80's you'll find some
>Hobmans. Cousins, not me. But I have ridden a bit and still think that
>clenching a cheek will input commands to a horse, although I suspect it is
>because of the entire side tightening. But both Elzi and John are better
>riders than me - if you can play polo at a decent level you can ride. And
>John - Elzi doesn't bull****. If she writes it I believe it. Don't let
>your emnity for 'the old boys club' cloud your judgement.

I think it has been going on for so long now Keith that "judgment" is
quite clearly capable of being clouded on both sides.

What Elzi said was wrong and very funny - if you know about horses.
However, I have made much more of it than perhaps I would have done
if a friend of mine had so erred.

Equally, it is being further exacerbated by a couple of her
ill-informed friends desperately trying to prove me wrong, which is
an exercise in futility in this particular situation.

I would have thought that our mutual love of horses would make her
more amenable, but the ill-feeling runs too deep after all this time.

England's performance today was ruined by a sending off after only 10
minutes; it ruined the game. ;o(

Australia next week I hope will be better! ;o)

John HUDSON
June 19th 04, 04:30 PM
On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 08:53:52 -0600, (Keith Hobman)
wrote:

>In article >, "Hoff" >
>wrote:
>
>> "Keith Hobman" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > In article >,
>> > (Elzinator) wrote:
>> >
>> > > (Axel of the North!) wrote in message
>> > >...
>> > > > On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:52:01 +0100, John HUDSON >
>> > > > wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > >On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:15:35 -0500, elzinator
>> > > > > wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > >>On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 07:17:50 -0400, Hoff wrote:
>> > > > >>>"elzinator" > wrote in message
>> > > >
>> > > > >>>> The secret is to keep a 'soft' seat. i.e. relax your torso, low
>> back
>> > > > >>>> and glutes. Let the horse and its back move unrestricted
>> underneath
>> > > > >>>> you . Your seat is supposed to be an extension of the horses
>> back,
>> > > > >>>> tightening only to cue the horse to change leads, speed or stop.
>> Other
>> > > > >>>> than that, keep the glutes loose ( relaxed :) and you wont get
>> sore.
>> > > > >>>>
>> > > > >>>> When you tighten up, the horse is uncomfortable and responds by
>> > > > >>>> hollowing its back, which makes for a bumpy ride: they can't
>> collect
>> > > > >>>> themselves underneath a hollow back. You get bumped, and they
>> hurt
>> > > > >>>> worse and it goes downhill from there.
>> > > > >>>>
>> > > > >>>> When you can tighten one glute, keeping the other relaxed and the
>> > > > >>>> horse responds by bending to the side, you know you have his
>> > > > >>>> attention. (a good horse is trained to move away from pressure; a
>> good
>> > > > >>>> rider uses the seat to 'talk' to the horse).
>> > > > >>>>
>> > > > >>>
>> > > > >>>Yeah, yeah. I've been getting these "lessons" from Sharon, too.
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >>It won't be as much an issue for you, since most riding stables use
>> > > > >>western saddles. However, when riding bareback or dressage, slight
>> and
>> > > > >>subtle shifts in weight, touches, etc can 'mean' something (i.e.
>> > > > >>communication).
>> > > > >
>> > > > >Says Elzi desperately trying to 'wriggle' out of her hilarious
>> > > > >instructions yesterday to talk to our mounts with our arses!! ;o)
>> > >
>> > > JH obviously doesn't know how to ride horses well. His derision serves
>> > > only as an opportunity to sling more **** at anyone who doesn't meet
>> > > his criteria or at someone who knows more than he does.
>> > > As usual.
>> >
>> > I'm not sure in an english saddle you can use the knees and legs like a
>> > western outfit. I've never ridden an english type of outfit. I suspect
>> > John would be a little suprised if he saw a calf roper, where they don't
>> > even use their hands to steer the horse.
>> >
>> > Of course, them roping horses are smarter than some people...
>>
>> Well, according to Sharon, dressage uses english saddles, and you use leg
>> commands far more than rein commands.
>>
>> You'll have to look further to find excuses for HUDSON.
>
>I wasn't making an excuse for John, I was sticking up for Elzi. Her
>steering a horse with her legs and arse seems perfectly reasonable to me.
>And as I said - I've only ridden with quarterhorse rigs.

Applying pressure to one side of the saddle or the other, is achieved
by transference of bodyweight. The seat can be used in association
with the legs by shifting the centre of gravity from one side to the
other, which will aid lateral movement, collection, turning and the
transition to canter etc.

It has nothing whatsoever to do with clenching buttocks!!

>
>Or bareback on the Percherons. Something I don't recommend. The picture at
>top are bred from the 2,200 stallion I rode.
>
>http://www.naeric.org/news_view.asp?Action=2
>And if you do get a list of National Finals rodeo from a few years back or
>check Canadian champions in calf roping from the 80's you'll find some
>Hobmans. Cousins, not me. But I have ridden a bit and still think that
>clenching a cheek will input commands to a horse, although I suspect it is
>because of the entire side tightening. But both Elzi and John are better
>riders than me - if you can play polo at a decent level you can ride. And
>John - Elzi doesn't bull****. If she writes it I believe it. Don't let
>your emnity for 'the old boys club' cloud your judgement.

I think it has been going on for so long now Keith that "judgment" is
quite clearly capable of being clouded on both sides.

What Elzi said was wrong and very funny - if you know about horses.
However, I have made much more of it than perhaps I would have done
if a friend of mine had so erred.

Equally, it is being further exacerbated by a couple of her
ill-informed friends desperately trying to prove me wrong, which is
an exercise in futility in this particular situation.

I would have thought that our mutual love of horses would make her
more amenable, but the ill-feeling runs too deep after all this time.

England's performance today was ruined by a sending off after only 10
minutes; it ruined the game. ;o(

Australia next week I hope will be better! ;o)

Hoff
June 19th 04, 05:19 PM
"Keith Hobman" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, "Hoff" >
> wrote:
>
> > "Keith Hobman" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > In article >,
> > > (Elzinator) wrote:
> > >
> > > > (Axel of the North!) wrote in message
> > > >...
> > > > > On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:52:01 +0100, John HUDSON >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:15:35 -0500, elzinator
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >>On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 07:17:50 -0400, Hoff wrote:
> > > > > >>>"elzinator" > wrote in message
> > > > >
> > > > > >>>> The secret is to keep a 'soft' seat. i.e. relax your torso,
low
> > back
> > > > > >>>> and glutes. Let the horse and its back move unrestricted
> > underneath
> > > > > >>>> you . Your seat is supposed to be an extension of the horses
> > back,
> > > > > >>>> tightening only to cue the horse to change leads, speed or
stop.
> > Other
> > > > > >>>> than that, keep the glutes loose ( relaxed :) and you wont
get
> > sore.
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> When you tighten up, the horse is uncomfortable and responds
by
> > > > > >>>> hollowing its back, which makes for a bumpy ride: they can't
> > collect
> > > > > >>>> themselves underneath a hollow back. You get bumped, and they
> > hurt
> > > > > >>>> worse and it goes downhill from there.
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> When you can tighten one glute, keeping the other relaxed and
the
> > > > > >>>> horse responds by bending to the side, you know you have his
> > > > > >>>> attention. (a good horse is trained to move away from
pressure; a
> > good
> > > > > >>>> rider uses the seat to 'talk' to the horse).
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>Yeah, yeah. I've been getting these "lessons" from Sharon,
too.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>It won't be as much an issue for you, since most riding stables
use
> > > > > >>western saddles. However, when riding bareback or dressage,
slight
> > and
> > > > > >>subtle shifts in weight, touches, etc can 'mean' something (i.e.
> > > > > >>communication).
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Says Elzi desperately trying to 'wriggle' out of her hilarious
> > > > > >instructions yesterday to talk to our mounts with our arses!! ;o)
> > > >
> > > > JH obviously doesn't know how to ride horses well. His derision
serves
> > > > only as an opportunity to sling more **** at anyone who doesn't
meet
> > > > his criteria or at someone who knows more than he does.
> > > > As usual.
> > >
> > > I'm not sure in an english saddle you can use the knees and legs like
a
> > > western outfit. I've never ridden an english type of outfit. I suspect
> > > John would be a little suprised if he saw a calf roper, where they
don't
> > > even use their hands to steer the horse.
> > >
> > > Of course, them roping horses are smarter than some people...
> >
> > Well, according to Sharon, dressage uses english saddles, and you use
leg
> > commands far more than rein commands.
> >
> > You'll have to look further to find excuses for HUDSON.
>
> I wasn't making an excuse for John, I was sticking up for Elzi. Her
> steering a horse with her legs and arse seems perfectly reasonable to me.
> And as I said - I've only ridden with quarterhorse rigs.

Since I've ridden like *maybe* 3 times in my life, I'm just passing along
what I'm told, and reading.

My bad if I misread your post.

Cuz, from here, it sure *looked* like you were making an excuse.

Hoff
--
Peanuts! Get yer Peanuts! http://irongarm.org/peanutgallery.htm

Hoff
June 19th 04, 05:19 PM
"Keith Hobman" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, "Hoff" >
> wrote:
>
> > "Keith Hobman" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > In article >,
> > > (Elzinator) wrote:
> > >
> > > > (Axel of the North!) wrote in message
> > > >...
> > > > > On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:52:01 +0100, John HUDSON >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:15:35 -0500, elzinator
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >>On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 07:17:50 -0400, Hoff wrote:
> > > > > >>>"elzinator" > wrote in message
> > > > >
> > > > > >>>> The secret is to keep a 'soft' seat. i.e. relax your torso,
low
> > back
> > > > > >>>> and glutes. Let the horse and its back move unrestricted
> > underneath
> > > > > >>>> you . Your seat is supposed to be an extension of the horses
> > back,
> > > > > >>>> tightening only to cue the horse to change leads, speed or
stop.
> > Other
> > > > > >>>> than that, keep the glutes loose ( relaxed :) and you wont
get
> > sore.
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> When you tighten up, the horse is uncomfortable and responds
by
> > > > > >>>> hollowing its back, which makes for a bumpy ride: they can't
> > collect
> > > > > >>>> themselves underneath a hollow back. You get bumped, and they
> > hurt
> > > > > >>>> worse and it goes downhill from there.
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> When you can tighten one glute, keeping the other relaxed and
the
> > > > > >>>> horse responds by bending to the side, you know you have his
> > > > > >>>> attention. (a good horse is trained to move away from
pressure; a
> > good
> > > > > >>>> rider uses the seat to 'talk' to the horse).
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>Yeah, yeah. I've been getting these "lessons" from Sharon,
too.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>It won't be as much an issue for you, since most riding stables
use
> > > > > >>western saddles. However, when riding bareback or dressage,
slight
> > and
> > > > > >>subtle shifts in weight, touches, etc can 'mean' something (i.e.
> > > > > >>communication).
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Says Elzi desperately trying to 'wriggle' out of her hilarious
> > > > > >instructions yesterday to talk to our mounts with our arses!! ;o)
> > > >
> > > > JH obviously doesn't know how to ride horses well. His derision
serves
> > > > only as an opportunity to sling more **** at anyone who doesn't
meet
> > > > his criteria or at someone who knows more than he does.
> > > > As usual.
> > >
> > > I'm not sure in an english saddle you can use the knees and legs like
a
> > > western outfit. I've never ridden an english type of outfit. I suspect
> > > John would be a little suprised if he saw a calf roper, where they
don't
> > > even use their hands to steer the horse.
> > >
> > > Of course, them roping horses are smarter than some people...
> >
> > Well, according to Sharon, dressage uses english saddles, and you use
leg
> > commands far more than rein commands.
> >
> > You'll have to look further to find excuses for HUDSON.
>
> I wasn't making an excuse for John, I was sticking up for Elzi. Her
> steering a horse with her legs and arse seems perfectly reasonable to me.
> And as I said - I've only ridden with quarterhorse rigs.

Since I've ridden like *maybe* 3 times in my life, I'm just passing along
what I'm told, and reading.

My bad if I misread your post.

Cuz, from here, it sure *looked* like you were making an excuse.

Hoff
--
Peanuts! Get yer Peanuts! http://irongarm.org/peanutgallery.htm

John HUDSON
June 19th 04, 05:22 PM
On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 12:19:45 -0400, "Hoff" >
wrote:

>"Keith Hobman" > wrote in message
...
>> In article >, "Hoff" >
>> wrote:
>>
>> > "Keith Hobman" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> > > In article >,
>> > > (Elzinator) wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > (Axel of the North!) wrote in message
>> > > >...
>> > > > > On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:52:01 +0100, John HUDSON >
>> > > > > wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > >On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:15:35 -0500, elzinator
>> > > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >>On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 07:17:50 -0400, Hoff wrote:
>> > > > > >>>"elzinator" > wrote in message
>> > > > >
>> > > > > >>>> The secret is to keep a 'soft' seat. i.e. relax your torso,
>low
>> > back
>> > > > > >>>> and glutes. Let the horse and its back move unrestricted
>> > underneath
>> > > > > >>>> you . Your seat is supposed to be an extension of the horses
>> > back,
>> > > > > >>>> tightening only to cue the horse to change leads, speed or
>stop.
>> > Other
>> > > > > >>>> than that, keep the glutes loose ( relaxed :) and you wont
>get
>> > sore.
>> > > > > >>>>
>> > > > > >>>> When you tighten up, the horse is uncomfortable and responds
>by
>> > > > > >>>> hollowing its back, which makes for a bumpy ride: they can't
>> > collect
>> > > > > >>>> themselves underneath a hollow back. You get bumped, and they
>> > hurt
>> > > > > >>>> worse and it goes downhill from there.
>> > > > > >>>>
>> > > > > >>>> When you can tighten one glute, keeping the other relaxed and
>the
>> > > > > >>>> horse responds by bending to the side, you know you have his
>> > > > > >>>> attention. (a good horse is trained to move away from
>pressure; a
>> > good
>> > > > > >>>> rider uses the seat to 'talk' to the horse).
>> > > > > >>>>
>> > > > > >>>
>> > > > > >>>Yeah, yeah. I've been getting these "lessons" from Sharon,
>too.
>> > > > > >>
>> > > > > >>It won't be as much an issue for you, since most riding stables
>use
>> > > > > >>western saddles. However, when riding bareback or dressage,
>slight
>> > and
>> > > > > >>subtle shifts in weight, touches, etc can 'mean' something (i.e.
>> > > > > >>communication).
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >Says Elzi desperately trying to 'wriggle' out of her hilarious
>> > > > > >instructions yesterday to talk to our mounts with our arses!! ;o)
>> > > >
>> > > > JH obviously doesn't know how to ride horses well. His derision
>serves
>> > > > only as an opportunity to sling more **** at anyone who doesn't
>meet
>> > > > his criteria or at someone who knows more than he does.
>> > > > As usual.
>> > >
>> > > I'm not sure in an english saddle you can use the knees and legs like
>a
>> > > western outfit. I've never ridden an english type of outfit. I suspect
>> > > John would be a little suprised if he saw a calf roper, where they
>don't
>> > > even use their hands to steer the horse.
>> > >
>> > > Of course, them roping horses are smarter than some people...
>> >
>> > Well, according to Sharon, dressage uses english saddles, and you use
>leg
>> > commands far more than rein commands.
>> >
>> > You'll have to look further to find excuses for HUDSON.
>>
>> I wasn't making an excuse for John, I was sticking up for Elzi. Her
>> steering a horse with her legs and arse seems perfectly reasonable to me.
>> And as I said - I've only ridden with quarterhorse rigs.
>
>Since I've ridden like *maybe* 3 times in my life, I'm just passing along
>what I'm told, and reading.
>
>My bad if I misread your post.
>
>Cuz, from here, it sure *looked* like you were making an excuse.

You don't often get it right Hoffy, but you're wrong again!! ;o)

HAGW!!

John HUDSON
June 19th 04, 05:22 PM
On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 12:19:45 -0400, "Hoff" >
wrote:

>"Keith Hobman" > wrote in message
...
>> In article >, "Hoff" >
>> wrote:
>>
>> > "Keith Hobman" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> > > In article >,
>> > > (Elzinator) wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > (Axel of the North!) wrote in message
>> > > >...
>> > > > > On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:52:01 +0100, John HUDSON >
>> > > > > wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > >On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:15:35 -0500, elzinator
>> > > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >>On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 07:17:50 -0400, Hoff wrote:
>> > > > > >>>"elzinator" > wrote in message
>> > > > >
>> > > > > >>>> The secret is to keep a 'soft' seat. i.e. relax your torso,
>low
>> > back
>> > > > > >>>> and glutes. Let the horse and its back move unrestricted
>> > underneath
>> > > > > >>>> you . Your seat is supposed to be an extension of the horses
>> > back,
>> > > > > >>>> tightening only to cue the horse to change leads, speed or
>stop.
>> > Other
>> > > > > >>>> than that, keep the glutes loose ( relaxed :) and you wont
>get
>> > sore.
>> > > > > >>>>
>> > > > > >>>> When you tighten up, the horse is uncomfortable and responds
>by
>> > > > > >>>> hollowing its back, which makes for a bumpy ride: they can't
>> > collect
>> > > > > >>>> themselves underneath a hollow back. You get bumped, and they
>> > hurt
>> > > > > >>>> worse and it goes downhill from there.
>> > > > > >>>>
>> > > > > >>>> When you can tighten one glute, keeping the other relaxed and
>the
>> > > > > >>>> horse responds by bending to the side, you know you have his
>> > > > > >>>> attention. (a good horse is trained to move away from
>pressure; a
>> > good
>> > > > > >>>> rider uses the seat to 'talk' to the horse).
>> > > > > >>>>
>> > > > > >>>
>> > > > > >>>Yeah, yeah. I've been getting these "lessons" from Sharon,
>too.
>> > > > > >>
>> > > > > >>It won't be as much an issue for you, since most riding stables
>use
>> > > > > >>western saddles. However, when riding bareback or dressage,
>slight
>> > and
>> > > > > >>subtle shifts in weight, touches, etc can 'mean' something (i.e.
>> > > > > >>communication).
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >Says Elzi desperately trying to 'wriggle' out of her hilarious
>> > > > > >instructions yesterday to talk to our mounts with our arses!! ;o)
>> > > >
>> > > > JH obviously doesn't know how to ride horses well. His derision
>serves
>> > > > only as an opportunity to sling more **** at anyone who doesn't
>meet
>> > > > his criteria or at someone who knows more than he does.
>> > > > As usual.
>> > >
>> > > I'm not sure in an english saddle you can use the knees and legs like
>a
>> > > western outfit. I've never ridden an english type of outfit. I suspect
>> > > John would be a little suprised if he saw a calf roper, where they
>don't
>> > > even use their hands to steer the horse.
>> > >
>> > > Of course, them roping horses are smarter than some people...
>> >
>> > Well, according to Sharon, dressage uses english saddles, and you use
>leg
>> > commands far more than rein commands.
>> >
>> > You'll have to look further to find excuses for HUDSON.
>>
>> I wasn't making an excuse for John, I was sticking up for Elzi. Her
>> steering a horse with her legs and arse seems perfectly reasonable to me.
>> And as I said - I've only ridden with quarterhorse rigs.
>
>Since I've ridden like *maybe* 3 times in my life, I'm just passing along
>what I'm told, and reading.
>
>My bad if I misread your post.
>
>Cuz, from here, it sure *looked* like you were making an excuse.

You don't often get it right Hoffy, but you're wrong again!! ;o)

HAGW!!

Lee Michaels
June 19th 04, 05:35 PM
"Hoff" wrote.
>
> Since I've ridden like *maybe* 3 times in my life, I'm just passing along
> what I'm told, and reading.
>
Hey Hoff, you have an experienced rider for a wife. You can get some REAL
riding lessons.

What you should do is have Sharon ride YOU. You will learn quckly to follow
commands or .....

Lee Michaels
June 19th 04, 05:35 PM
"Hoff" wrote.
>
> Since I've ridden like *maybe* 3 times in my life, I'm just passing along
> what I'm told, and reading.
>
Hey Hoff, you have an experienced rider for a wife. You can get some REAL
riding lessons.

What you should do is have Sharon ride YOU. You will learn quckly to follow
commands or .....

Hoff
June 19th 04, 05:45 PM
"Lee Michaels" > wrote in message
news:[email protected]_s54...
>
> "Hoff" wrote.
> >
> > Since I've ridden like *maybe* 3 times in my life, I'm just passing
along
> > what I'm told, and reading.
> >
> Hey Hoff, you have an experienced rider for a wife. You can get some REAL
> riding lessons.
>
> What you should do is have Sharon ride YOU. You will learn quckly to
follow
> commands or .....
>

....spurs can be quite a motivational factor.

Hoff

Hoff
June 19th 04, 05:45 PM
"Lee Michaels" > wrote in message
news:[email protected]_s54...
>
> "Hoff" wrote.
> >
> > Since I've ridden like *maybe* 3 times in my life, I'm just passing
along
> > what I'm told, and reading.
> >
> Hey Hoff, you have an experienced rider for a wife. You can get some REAL
> riding lessons.
>
> What you should do is have Sharon ride YOU. You will learn quckly to
follow
> commands or .....
>

....spurs can be quite a motivational factor.

Hoff

Hugh Beyer
June 21st 04, 04:11 AM
(Keith Hobman) wrote in
:

> In article >, "Hoff"
> > wrote:
>
>> "Keith Hobman" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > In article >,
>> > (Elzinator) wrote:
>> >
>> > > (Axel of the North!) wrote in message
>> > > >...
>> > > > On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:52:01 +0100, John HUDSON
>> > > > > wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > >On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:15:35 -0500, elzinator
>> > > > > wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > >>On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 07:17:50 -0400, Hoff wrote:
>> > > > >>>"elzinator" > wrote in message
>> > > >
>> > > > >>>> The secret is to keep a 'soft' seat. i.e. relax your torso,
>> > > > >>>> low back and glutes. Let the horse and its back move
>> > > > >>>> unrestricted underneath you . Your seat is supposed to be an
>> > > > >>>> extension of the horses back, tightening only to cue the
>> > > > >>>> horse to change leads, speed or stop. Other than that, keep
>> > > > >>>> the glutes loose ( relaxed
>> > > > >>>> :) and you wont get sore.
>> > > > >>>>
>> > > > >>>> When you tighten up, the horse is uncomfortable and responds
>> > > > >>>> by hollowing its back, which makes for a bumpy ride: they
>> > > > >>>> can't collect themselves underneath a hollow back. You get
>> > > > >>>> bumped, and they hurt worse and it goes downhill from there.
>> > > > >>>>
>> > > > >>>> When you can tighten one glute, keeping the other relaxed
>> > > > >>>> and the horse responds by bending to the side, you know you
>> > > > >>>> have his attention. (a good horse is trained to move away
>> > > > >>>> from pressure; a good rider uses the seat to 'talk' to the
>> > > > >>>> horse).
>> > > > >>>>
>> > > > >>>
>> > > > >>>Yeah, yeah. I've been getting these "lessons" from Sharon,
>> > > > >>>too.
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >>It won't be as much an issue for you, since most riding stables
>> > > > >>use western saddles. However, when riding bareback or dressage,
>> > > > >>slight and subtle shifts in weight, touches, etc can 'mean'
>> > > > >>something (i.e. communication).
>> > > > >
>> > > > >Says Elzi desperately trying to 'wriggle' out of her hilarious
>> > > > >instructions yesterday to talk to our mounts with our arses!!
>> > > > >;o)
>> > >
>> > > JH obviously doesn't know how to ride horses well. His derision
>> > > serves only as an opportunity to sling more **** at anyone who
>> > > doesn't meet his criteria or at someone who knows more than he
>> > > does. As usual.
>> >
>> > I'm not sure in an english saddle you can use the knees and legs like
>> > a western outfit. I've never ridden an english type of outfit. I
>> > suspect John would be a little suprised if he saw a calf roper, where
>> > they don't even use their hands to steer the horse.
>> >
>> > Of course, them roping horses are smarter than some people...
>>
>> Well, according to Sharon, dressage uses english saddles, and you use
>> leg commands far more than rein commands.
>>
>> You'll have to look further to find excuses for HUDSON.
>
> I wasn't making an excuse for John, I was sticking up for Elzi. Her
> steering a horse with her legs and arse seems perfectly reasonable to
> me. And as I said - I've only ridden with quarterhorse rigs.

Gad, is that what this thread is about? Of course you talk to your horse
with your legs and butt, and balance. And not just direction--speed up,
slow down, this way, pay attention you damn stupid lunkhead. I've ridden
English, Western, and Australian saddles and the basics are the same. The
main difference is you're in better contact with the horse in an English
saddle so you can do more with pressure of calf, knee and thigh; and that
nothing but starvation will get you out of an Australian saddle. Thinking
you steer with your hands is like thinking you pull on the trigger when
shooting a gun.

.... but I'm sure Elzi told you this already.


Hugh, jumping into the middle



--
Help! My myofibrillar material is disorganized!

Hugh Beyer
June 21st 04, 04:11 AM
(Keith Hobman) wrote in
:

> In article >, "Hoff"
> > wrote:
>
>> "Keith Hobman" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > In article >,
>> > (Elzinator) wrote:
>> >
>> > > (Axel of the North!) wrote in message
>> > > >...
>> > > > On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:52:01 +0100, John HUDSON
>> > > > > wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > >On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:15:35 -0500, elzinator
>> > > > > wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > >>On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 07:17:50 -0400, Hoff wrote:
>> > > > >>>"elzinator" > wrote in message
>> > > >
>> > > > >>>> The secret is to keep a 'soft' seat. i.e. relax your torso,
>> > > > >>>> low back and glutes. Let the horse and its back move
>> > > > >>>> unrestricted underneath you . Your seat is supposed to be an
>> > > > >>>> extension of the horses back, tightening only to cue the
>> > > > >>>> horse to change leads, speed or stop. Other than that, keep
>> > > > >>>> the glutes loose ( relaxed
>> > > > >>>> :) and you wont get sore.
>> > > > >>>>
>> > > > >>>> When you tighten up, the horse is uncomfortable and responds
>> > > > >>>> by hollowing its back, which makes for a bumpy ride: they
>> > > > >>>> can't collect themselves underneath a hollow back. You get
>> > > > >>>> bumped, and they hurt worse and it goes downhill from there.
>> > > > >>>>
>> > > > >>>> When you can tighten one glute, keeping the other relaxed
>> > > > >>>> and the horse responds by bending to the side, you know you
>> > > > >>>> have his attention. (a good horse is trained to move away
>> > > > >>>> from pressure; a good rider uses the seat to 'talk' to the
>> > > > >>>> horse).
>> > > > >>>>
>> > > > >>>
>> > > > >>>Yeah, yeah. I've been getting these "lessons" from Sharon,
>> > > > >>>too.
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >>It won't be as much an issue for you, since most riding stables
>> > > > >>use western saddles. However, when riding bareback or dressage,
>> > > > >>slight and subtle shifts in weight, touches, etc can 'mean'
>> > > > >>something (i.e. communication).
>> > > > >
>> > > > >Says Elzi desperately trying to 'wriggle' out of her hilarious
>> > > > >instructions yesterday to talk to our mounts with our arses!!
>> > > > >;o)
>> > >
>> > > JH obviously doesn't know how to ride horses well. His derision
>> > > serves only as an opportunity to sling more **** at anyone who
>> > > doesn't meet his criteria or at someone who knows more than he
>> > > does. As usual.
>> >
>> > I'm not sure in an english saddle you can use the knees and legs like
>> > a western outfit. I've never ridden an english type of outfit. I
>> > suspect John would be a little suprised if he saw a calf roper, where
>> > they don't even use their hands to steer the horse.
>> >
>> > Of course, them roping horses are smarter than some people...
>>
>> Well, according to Sharon, dressage uses english saddles, and you use
>> leg commands far more than rein commands.
>>
>> You'll have to look further to find excuses for HUDSON.
>
> I wasn't making an excuse for John, I was sticking up for Elzi. Her
> steering a horse with her legs and arse seems perfectly reasonable to
> me. And as I said - I've only ridden with quarterhorse rigs.

Gad, is that what this thread is about? Of course you talk to your horse
with your legs and butt, and balance. And not just direction--speed up,
slow down, this way, pay attention you damn stupid lunkhead. I've ridden
English, Western, and Australian saddles and the basics are the same. The
main difference is you're in better contact with the horse in an English
saddle so you can do more with pressure of calf, knee and thigh; and that
nothing but starvation will get you out of an Australian saddle. Thinking
you steer with your hands is like thinking you pull on the trigger when
shooting a gun.

.... but I'm sure Elzi told you this already.


Hugh, jumping into the middle



--
Help! My myofibrillar material is disorganized!

John HUDSON
June 21st 04, 08:22 AM
On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 03:11:56 GMT, Hugh Beyer >
wrote:

(Keith Hobman) wrote in
:
>
>> In article >, "Hoff"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> "Keith Hobman" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>> > In article >,
>>> > (Elzinator) wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > (Axel of the North!) wrote in message
>>> > > >...
>>> > > > On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:52:01 +0100, John HUDSON
>>> > > > > wrote:
>>> > > >
>>> > > > >On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:15:35 -0500, elzinator
>>> > > > > wrote:
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >>On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 07:17:50 -0400, Hoff wrote:
>>> > > > >>>"elzinator" > wrote in message
>>> > > >
>>> > > > >>>> The secret is to keep a 'soft' seat. i.e. relax your torso,
>>> > > > >>>> low back and glutes. Let the horse and its back move
>>> > > > >>>> unrestricted underneath you . Your seat is supposed to be an
>>> > > > >>>> extension of the horses back, tightening only to cue the
>>> > > > >>>> horse to change leads, speed or stop. Other than that, keep
>>> > > > >>>> the glutes loose ( relaxed
>>> > > > >>>> :) and you wont get sore.
>>> > > > >>>>
>>> > > > >>>> When you tighten up, the horse is uncomfortable and responds
>>> > > > >>>> by hollowing its back, which makes for a bumpy ride: they
>>> > > > >>>> can't collect themselves underneath a hollow back. You get
>>> > > > >>>> bumped, and they hurt worse and it goes downhill from there.
>>> > > > >>>>
>>> > > > >>>> When you can tighten one glute, keeping the other relaxed
>>> > > > >>>> and the horse responds by bending to the side, you know you
>>> > > > >>>> have his attention. (a good horse is trained to move away
>>> > > > >>>> from pressure; a good rider uses the seat to 'talk' to the
>>> > > > >>>> horse).
>>> > > > >>>>
>>> > > > >>>
>>> > > > >>>Yeah, yeah. I've been getting these "lessons" from Sharon,
>>> > > > >>>too.
>>> > > > >>
>>> > > > >>It won't be as much an issue for you, since most riding stables
>>> > > > >>use western saddles. However, when riding bareback or dressage,
>>> > > > >>slight and subtle shifts in weight, touches, etc can 'mean'
>>> > > > >>something (i.e. communication).
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >Says Elzi desperately trying to 'wriggle' out of her hilarious
>>> > > > >instructions yesterday to talk to our mounts with our arses!!
>>> > > > >;o)
>>> > >
>>> > > JH obviously doesn't know how to ride horses well. His derision
>>> > > serves only as an opportunity to sling more **** at anyone who
>>> > > doesn't meet his criteria or at someone who knows more than he
>>> > > does. As usual.
>>> >
>>> > I'm not sure in an english saddle you can use the knees and legs like
>>> > a western outfit. I've never ridden an english type of outfit. I
>>> > suspect John would be a little suprised if he saw a calf roper, where
>>> > they don't even use their hands to steer the horse.
>>> >
>>> > Of course, them roping horses are smarter than some people...
>>>
>>> Well, according to Sharon, dressage uses english saddles, and you use
>>> leg commands far more than rein commands.
>>>
>>> You'll have to look further to find excuses for HUDSON.
>>
>> I wasn't making an excuse for John, I was sticking up for Elzi. Her
>> steering a horse with her legs and arse seems perfectly reasonable to
>> me. And as I said - I've only ridden with quarterhorse rigs.
>
>Gad, is that what this thread is about? Of course you talk to your horse
>with your legs and butt, and balance. And not just direction--speed up,
>slow down, this way, pay attention you damn stupid lunkhead. I've ridden
>English, Western, and Australian saddles and the basics are the same. The
>main difference is you're in better contact with the horse in an English
>saddle so you can do more with pressure of calf, knee and thigh; and that
>nothing but starvation will get you out of an Australian saddle. Thinking
>you steer with your hands is like thinking you pull on the trigger when
>shooting a gun.
>
>... but I'm sure Elzi told you this already.

Er...... no Hugh; Elzi actually said that the horse can be
"controlled" by contracting alternate bum cheeks, which was what
caused me to collapse in paralytic and uncontrollable mirth!! :o)

Ugh!! It's Monday!! ;o(

John HUDSON
June 21st 04, 08:22 AM
On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 03:11:56 GMT, Hugh Beyer >
wrote:

(Keith Hobman) wrote in
:
>
>> In article >, "Hoff"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> "Keith Hobman" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>> > In article >,
>>> > (Elzinator) wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > (Axel of the North!) wrote in message
>>> > > >...
>>> > > > On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:52:01 +0100, John HUDSON
>>> > > > > wrote:
>>> > > >
>>> > > > >On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:15:35 -0500, elzinator
>>> > > > > wrote:
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >>On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 07:17:50 -0400, Hoff wrote:
>>> > > > >>>"elzinator" > wrote in message
>>> > > >
>>> > > > >>>> The secret is to keep a 'soft' seat. i.e. relax your torso,
>>> > > > >>>> low back and glutes. Let the horse and its back move
>>> > > > >>>> unrestricted underneath you . Your seat is supposed to be an
>>> > > > >>>> extension of the horses back, tightening only to cue the
>>> > > > >>>> horse to change leads, speed or stop. Other than that, keep
>>> > > > >>>> the glutes loose ( relaxed
>>> > > > >>>> :) and you wont get sore.
>>> > > > >>>>
>>> > > > >>>> When you tighten up, the horse is uncomfortable and responds
>>> > > > >>>> by hollowing its back, which makes for a bumpy ride: they
>>> > > > >>>> can't collect themselves underneath a hollow back. You get
>>> > > > >>>> bumped, and they hurt worse and it goes downhill from there.
>>> > > > >>>>
>>> > > > >>>> When you can tighten one glute, keeping the other relaxed
>>> > > > >>>> and the horse responds by bending to the side, you know you
>>> > > > >>>> have his attention. (a good horse is trained to move away
>>> > > > >>>> from pressure; a good rider uses the seat to 'talk' to the
>>> > > > >>>> horse).
>>> > > > >>>>
>>> > > > >>>
>>> > > > >>>Yeah, yeah. I've been getting these "lessons" from Sharon,
>>> > > > >>>too.
>>> > > > >>
>>> > > > >>It won't be as much an issue for you, since most riding stables
>>> > > > >>use western saddles. However, when riding bareback or dressage,
>>> > > > >>slight and subtle shifts in weight, touches, etc can 'mean'
>>> > > > >>something (i.e. communication).
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >Says Elzi desperately trying to 'wriggle' out of her hilarious
>>> > > > >instructions yesterday to talk to our mounts with our arses!!
>>> > > > >;o)
>>> > >
>>> > > JH obviously doesn't know how to ride horses well. His derision
>>> > > serves only as an opportunity to sling more **** at anyone who
>>> > > doesn't meet his criteria or at someone who knows more than he
>>> > > does. As usual.
>>> >
>>> > I'm not sure in an english saddle you can use the knees and legs like
>>> > a western outfit. I've never ridden an english type of outfit. I
>>> > suspect John would be a little suprised if he saw a calf roper, where
>>> > they don't even use their hands to steer the horse.
>>> >
>>> > Of course, them roping horses are smarter than some people...
>>>
>>> Well, according to Sharon, dressage uses english saddles, and you use
>>> leg commands far more than rein commands.
>>>
>>> You'll have to look further to find excuses for HUDSON.
>>
>> I wasn't making an excuse for John, I was sticking up for Elzi. Her
>> steering a horse with her legs and arse seems perfectly reasonable to
>> me. And as I said - I've only ridden with quarterhorse rigs.
>
>Gad, is that what this thread is about? Of course you talk to your horse
>with your legs and butt, and balance. And not just direction--speed up,
>slow down, this way, pay attention you damn stupid lunkhead. I've ridden
>English, Western, and Australian saddles and the basics are the same. The
>main difference is you're in better contact with the horse in an English
>saddle so you can do more with pressure of calf, knee and thigh; and that
>nothing but starvation will get you out of an Australian saddle. Thinking
>you steer with your hands is like thinking you pull on the trigger when
>shooting a gun.
>
>... but I'm sure Elzi told you this already.

Er...... no Hugh; Elzi actually said that the horse can be
"controlled" by contracting alternate bum cheeks, which was what
caused me to collapse in paralytic and uncontrollable mirth!! :o)

Ugh!! It's Monday!! ;o(

Neal Fabian
June 21st 04, 10:36 PM
John M. Williams > wrote in message >...
> (Kevin Kane) wrote:
>
> >Guys,
> >
> >I appreciate the cynicism. However, you don't have to be jealous.
> >Results like MINE are possible if you remain a focused, dedicated
> >athlete like myself. Currently, I am writing my biography and would
> >be happy to share it with you guys once it's done to serve as an
> >insipirational reminder of the power of positive thought. When I am
> >having a podium finish at the 2006 Mr. Olympia, who will be laughing ?
> >Heh heh heh
> >
> >I can't wait. I am willing to sign autographs for those who are
> >interested. Also, for interested fans, I have my own mailing list to
> >keep you all up to date on my wordly adventures, physique evolution
> >and general butt kicking activities.
> >
> >P.S. Thanks for all the fan mail. For those who don't have Internet,
> >please mail to the address in Contact info with a self addressed stamp
> >and I'll be sure to get back to you when my gruelling schedule permits
> >me a modicum of free time.
>
> Neal Fabian II



I wonder if Kevin realizes how (unintentionally) flattering that line
was.

___________________________________

HOW GOOD CAN YOU GET? is now up on my website, in NEW STUFF, on the
cover page.* Check it out.* Also, I have a new B&W addition to my
gallery, by a terrific photographer who is new to physique art.* It's
in ABSOLUTELY...PART II.
___________________________________

My training program, ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT
DEVELOPING YOUR BODY,* is up on my website.
___________________________________

Neal Fabian
visit my website; BIO, PHOTOS & ARTICLES
training advice and much more -- come by and meet me
http://hometown.aol.com/nfabian/myhomepage/index.html





****



*
-

Neal Fabian
June 21st 04, 10:36 PM
John M. Williams > wrote in message >...
> (Kevin Kane) wrote:
>
> >Guys,
> >
> >I appreciate the cynicism. However, you don't have to be jealous.
> >Results like MINE are possible if you remain a focused, dedicated
> >athlete like myself. Currently, I am writing my biography and would
> >be happy to share it with you guys once it's done to serve as an
> >insipirational reminder of the power of positive thought. When I am
> >having a podium finish at the 2006 Mr. Olympia, who will be laughing ?
> >Heh heh heh
> >
> >I can't wait. I am willing to sign autographs for those who are
> >interested. Also, for interested fans, I have my own mailing list to
> >keep you all up to date on my wordly adventures, physique evolution
> >and general butt kicking activities.
> >
> >P.S. Thanks for all the fan mail. For those who don't have Internet,
> >please mail to the address in Contact info with a self addressed stamp
> >and I'll be sure to get back to you when my gruelling schedule permits
> >me a modicum of free time.
>
> Neal Fabian II



I wonder if Kevin realizes how (unintentionally) flattering that line
was.

___________________________________

HOW GOOD CAN YOU GET? is now up on my website, in NEW STUFF, on the
cover page.* Check it out.* Also, I have a new B&W addition to my
gallery, by a terrific photographer who is new to physique art.* It's
in ABSOLUTELY...PART II.
___________________________________

My training program, ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT
DEVELOPING YOUR BODY,* is up on my website.
___________________________________

Neal Fabian
visit my website; BIO, PHOTOS & ARTICLES
training advice and much more -- come by and meet me
http://hometown.aol.com/nfabian/myhomepage/index.html





****



*
-

Neal Fabian
June 21st 04, 10:48 PM
"David Cohen" > wrote in message >...
> "Kevin Kane" > wrote
> > Oh, athletes as ripped as the accounting documents at Enron, cut
> like
> > a classic jigsaw puzzle, sculpted like a Greek God
>
> Bacchus?
>
> > ...is it a crime to
> > want have an outstanding, picturesque physique ? Is it a crime to
> set
> > physical, measurable goals and achieve them through determination,
> > dedication and training? Is is a crime to be objective, thought
> > provoking and rational?
>
> If being objective, thought provoking, and rational were crimes, you
> are surely not guilty.


There you go; always cutting people up with that merciless, razor like
wit.





>
> > I thought not.
>
> No kidding!
>
> > Ignore all the non believers. You too can have my physique or one
> > like it if you have dedication, persistence and hard work.
>
> If the voices in your head continue to post, I'm killfiling you.



You see posts from voices in people's heads?



> >
> > Visit my website as a tribute to evolution, greatness, and
> > individualism.
>
> Yes. You are an inspiration. Spending 24 hours a day, 365 days a year,


I think he takes Christmas and New Year's off.




> striving to be a mediocre, local, ametuer, bodybuilder, is
> awe-inspiring. Keep up the good work.




And you are at what level?





>
> > Thanks
> >
> > Kevin
> >
> > www.arts.uwaterloo.ca/~kkane
>
>



That was nice of you. You are probably a much better typist than
Kevin, with your long, thin, pale fingers, the nails showing just a
hint of gloss ...





>[i]
> > P.S. Who is Neal Fabian ? A fitness model of outstanding
> proportions ?
>
> Yes. Very much like yourself.
>




Well, actually I'm a little heavier, but then I've been at it longer.

___________________________________

HOW GOOD CAN YOU GET? is now up on my website, in NEW STUFF, on the
cover page.* Check it out.* Also, I have a new B&W addition to my
gallery, by a terrific photographer who is new to physique art.* It's
in ABSOLUTELY...PART II.
___________________________________

My training program, ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT
DEVELOPING YOUR BODY,* is up on my website.
___________________________________

Neal Fabian
visit my website; BIO, PHOTOS & ARTICLES
training advice and much more -- come by and meet me
http://hometown.aol.com/nfabian/myhomepage/index.html





****

Neal Fabian
June 21st 04, 10:48 PM
"David Cohen" > wrote in message >...
> "Kevin Kane" > wrote
> > Oh, athletes as ripped as the accounting documents at Enron, cut
> like
> > a classic jigsaw puzzle, sculpted like a Greek God
>
> Bacchus?
>
> > ...is it a crime to
> > want have an outstanding, picturesque physique ? Is it a crime to
> set
> > physical, measurable goals and achieve them through determination,
> > dedication and training? Is is a crime to be objective, thought
> > provoking and rational?
>
> If being objective, thought provoking, and rational were crimes, you
> are surely not guilty.


There you go; always cutting people up with that merciless, razor like
wit.





>
> > I thought not.
>
> No kidding!
>
> > Ignore all the non believers. You too can have my physique or one
> > like it if you have dedication, persistence and hard work.
>
> If the voices in your head continue to post, I'm killfiling you.



You see posts from voices in people's heads?



> >
> > Visit my website as a tribute to evolution, greatness, and
> > individualism.
>
> Yes. You are an inspiration. Spending 24 hours a day, 365 days a year,


I think he takes Christmas and New Year's off.




> striving to be a mediocre, local, ametuer, bodybuilder, is
> awe-inspiring. Keep up the good work.




And you are at what level?





>
> > Thanks
> >
> > Kevin
> >
> > www.arts.uwaterloo.ca/~kkane
>
>



That was nice of you. You are probably a much better typist than
Kevin, with your long, thin, pale fingers, the nails showing just a
hint of gloss ...





>[i]
> > P.S. Who is Neal Fabian ? A fitness model of outstanding
> proportions ?
>
> Yes. Very much like yourself.
>




Well, actually I'm a little heavier, but then I've been at it longer.

___________________________________

HOW GOOD CAN YOU GET? is now up on my website, in NEW STUFF, on the
cover page.* Check it out.* Also, I have a new B&W addition to my
gallery, by a terrific photographer who is new to physique art.* It's
in ABSOLUTELY...PART II.
___________________________________

My training program, ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT
DEVELOPING YOUR BODY,* is up on my website.
___________________________________

Neal Fabian
visit my website; BIO, PHOTOS & ARTICLES
training advice and much more -- come by and meet me
http://hometown.aol.com/nfabian/myhomepage/index.html





****

Neal Fabian
June 21st 04, 10:54 PM
John M. Williams > wrote in message >...
> (Kevin Kane) wrote:
> >
> >John:
> >
> >Who the heck is Adam Ramsey ???? I bet he doesn't bech 205 x 25 ?
>
> Why would anyone?





Higher reps are a good training variable, if not overused. Actually,
at your age, I would recommend medium-high reps and lighter weights,
as your regular routine. I hope I've helped you.

___________________________________

HOW GOOD CAN YOU GET? is now up on my website, in NEW STUFF, on the
cover page.* Check it out.* Also, I have a new B&W addition to my
gallery, by a terrific photographer who is new to physique art.* It's
in ABSOLUTELY...PART II.
___________________________________

My training program, ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT
DEVELOPING YOUR BODY,* is up on my website.
___________________________________

Neal Fabian
visit my website; BIO, PHOTOS & ARTICLES
training advice and much more -- come by and meet me
http://hometown.aol.com/nfabian/myhomepage/index.html





****



*

Neal Fabian
June 21st 04, 10:54 PM
John M. Williams > wrote in message >...
> (Kevin Kane) wrote:
> >
> >John:
> >
> >Who the heck is Adam Ramsey ???? I bet he doesn't bech 205 x 25 ?
>
> Why would anyone?





Higher reps are a good training variable, if not overused. Actually,
at your age, I would recommend medium-high reps and lighter weights,
as your regular routine. I hope I've helped you.

___________________________________

HOW GOOD CAN YOU GET? is now up on my website, in NEW STUFF, on the
cover page.* Check it out.* Also, I have a new B&W addition to my
gallery, by a terrific photographer who is new to physique art.* It's
in ABSOLUTELY...PART II.
___________________________________

My training program, ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT
DEVELOPING YOUR BODY,* is up on my website.
___________________________________

Neal Fabian
visit my website; BIO, PHOTOS & ARTICLES
training advice and much more -- come by and meet me
http://hometown.aol.com/nfabian/myhomepage/index.html





****



*

Neal Fabian
June 21st 04, 10:59 PM
(Kevin Kane) wrote in message >...
> Sigh. Larry -- I sense a bit of negativity floating around.
>
> I suggest you check out:
> http://www.arts.uwaterloo.ca/~kkane/quotes.html
>
> At the above link are some of inspring quotes from great thinkers
> including myself.
>
> Note some of the quotes by Einstein:
>
> "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from
> mediocre minds." - Albert Einstein
>
> "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from
> mediocre minds." - Albert Einstein
>
> and a few more from yours truly:
>
> "One of the views of government that I oppose is the one that makes
> some bureaucrats think, 'If it exists, tax it; it if moves, regulate
> it; if it stops, subsidize it." - Kevin Kane
>
> "Imprisoned underneath all of those layers of fat is a ripped physique
> screaming to be let out!" - Kevin Kane
>
> We don't always want to hear the truth. Sometimes we just prefer to
> vent or to hear that which confirms our opinions or makes us feel
> good. Hearing the truth can sometimes be painful, even offensive.
> ~Kevin Kane
>
>
> I hope you enjoy the light of my positivity shining in on your dark,
> negative parade.
>
> Take care,
>
> Kevin
>
>
>
>
>
> "Larry Hodges" > wrote in message >...
> > You're just an arrogant dick, nothing more.




I think you've got them all stirred up.


___________________________________

HOW GOOD CAN YOU GET? is now up on my website, in NEW STUFF, on the
cover page.* Check it out.* Also, I have a new B&W addition to my
gallery, by a terrific photographer who is new to physique art.* It's
in ABSOLUTELY...PART II.
___________________________________

My training program, ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT
DEVELOPING YOUR BODY,* is up on my website.
___________________________________

Neal Fabian
visit my website; BIO, PHOTOS & ARTICLES
training advice and much more -- come by and meet me
http://hometown.aol.com/nfabian/myhomepage/index.html





****



***

Neal Fabian
June 21st 04, 10:59 PM
(Kevin Kane) wrote in message >...
> Sigh. Larry -- I sense a bit of negativity floating around.
>
> I suggest you check out:
> http://www.arts.uwaterloo.ca/~kkane/quotes.html
>
> At the above link are some of inspring quotes from great thinkers
> including myself.
>
> Note some of the quotes by Einstein:
>
> "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from
> mediocre minds." - Albert Einstein
>
> "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from
> mediocre minds." - Albert Einstein
>
> and a few more from yours truly:
>
> "One of the views of government that I oppose is the one that makes
> some bureaucrats think, 'If it exists, tax it; it if moves, regulate
> it; if it stops, subsidize it." - Kevin Kane
>
> "Imprisoned underneath all of those layers of fat is a ripped physique
> screaming to be let out!" - Kevin Kane
>
> We don't always want to hear the truth. Sometimes we just prefer to
> vent or to hear that which confirms our opinions or makes us feel
> good. Hearing the truth can sometimes be painful, even offensive.
> ~Kevin Kane
>
>
> I hope you enjoy the light of my positivity shining in on your dark,
> negative parade.
>
> Take care,
>
> Kevin
>
>
>
>
>
> "Larry Hodges" > wrote in message >...
> > You're just an arrogant dick, nothing more.




I think you've got them all stirred up.


___________________________________

HOW GOOD CAN YOU GET? is now up on my website, in NEW STUFF, on the
cover page.* Check it out.* Also, I have a new B&W addition to my
gallery, by a terrific photographer who is new to physique art.* It's
in ABSOLUTELY...PART II.
___________________________________

My training program, ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT
DEVELOPING YOUR BODY,* is up on my website.
___________________________________

Neal Fabian
visit my website; BIO, PHOTOS & ARTICLES
training advice and much more -- come by and meet me
http://hometown.aol.com/nfabian/myhomepage/index.html





****



***

John M. Williams
June 22nd 04, 12:20 AM
(Neal Fabian) wrote:
>John M. Williams > wrote:
>> (Kevin Kane) wrote:
>> >
>> >John:
>> >
>> >Who the heck is Adam Ramsey ???? I bet he doesn't bech 205 x 25 ?
>>
>> Why would anyone?
>
>Higher reps are a good training variable, if not overused. Actually,
>at your age, I would recommend medium-high reps and lighter weights,
>as your regular routine. I hope I've helped you.

It appears that you passed my age approximately 18 years ago. Thus, I
will assume that you have experience in that regard.

John M. Williams
June 22nd 04, 12:20 AM
(Neal Fabian) wrote:
>John M. Williams > wrote:
>> (Kevin Kane) wrote:
>> >
>> >John:
>> >
>> >Who the heck is Adam Ramsey ???? I bet he doesn't bech 205 x 25 ?
>>
>> Why would anyone?
>
>Higher reps are a good training variable, if not overused. Actually,
>at your age, I would recommend medium-high reps and lighter weights,
>as your regular routine. I hope I've helped you.

It appears that you passed my age approximately 18 years ago. Thus, I
will assume that you have experience in that regard.

elzinator
June 22nd 04, 04:32 AM
Keith Hobman" > wrote in message
...

>> > > I'm not sure in an english saddle you can use the knees and legs like
>a
>> > > western outfit. I've never ridden an english type of outfit. I suspect
>> > > John would be a little suprised if he saw a calf roper, where they
>don't
>> > > even use their hands to steer the horse.

A Western saddle has much more bulk to it, unless you find an old
saddle which allows more contact. My show saddle is an old Western
close contact, which I like (but it still weighs a ton). So most
Western riders put more reliance on contact with reins, thighs and
calves. However, as John Hamer pointed out to us, a good Western horse
and rider still uses their seat, and the reins should be merely
'reminders.'

Indeed, when I give Shadow the bit and the reins (I just let the reins
rest in between my fingers), he drops his head and gathers himself
underneath for driving from the back end. He relaxes and we both enjoy
the ride. I use my seat and thighs occasionally to cue to bend, turn
or change leads. I wiggle the reins (and hence the bit) to remind him
that I want his attention. (I always reward him at the end by giving
him the full length of the reins so that he can walk and stretch his
neck/head and shoulders; he's an athlete, too).

Now, Australian saddles rock: a hybrid of dressage, endurance and
western saddle.

However, the real beauty of watching a horse and rider is a good
cutting horse. If you've ever seen a sheep dog at work, cutting horses
are very similar. The rider just sits in the saddle, with feet and
legs away from the sides of the horse (allows the horse full freedom
to move -sometimes hop- sideways), gives the horse the reins and hangs
on to the horn while the horse dances around the calves. Dude, it's
awesome :) If you ever get the chance, watch horses from the Little
Lena lineage. They are smaller and petite than the typical
Quarterhorse, but cutting calves/cows is in their blood and they sure
can dance, with their noses and ears following a calf's head and every
move, they leap back and forth, side to side. It's awesome.

The World Paint Show is running now in Fort Worth. I've picked the day
of the cutting horse finals to go and watch the equine ballet.


"I am the monster." - Riddick

elzinator
June 22nd 04, 04:32 AM
Keith Hobman" > wrote in message
...

>> > > I'm not sure in an english saddle you can use the knees and legs like
>a
>> > > western outfit. I've never ridden an english type of outfit. I suspect
>> > > John would be a little suprised if he saw a calf roper, where they
>don't
>> > > even use their hands to steer the horse.

A Western saddle has much more bulk to it, unless you find an old
saddle which allows more contact. My show saddle is an old Western
close contact, which I like (but it still weighs a ton). So most
Western riders put more reliance on contact with reins, thighs and
calves. However, as John Hamer pointed out to us, a good Western horse
and rider still uses their seat, and the reins should be merely
'reminders.'

Indeed, when I give Shadow the bit and the reins (I just let the reins
rest in between my fingers), he drops his head and gathers himself
underneath for driving from the back end. He relaxes and we both enjoy
the ride. I use my seat and thighs occasionally to cue to bend, turn
or change leads. I wiggle the reins (and hence the bit) to remind him
that I want his attention. (I always reward him at the end by giving
him the full length of the reins so that he can walk and stretch his
neck/head and shoulders; he's an athlete, too).

Now, Australian saddles rock: a hybrid of dressage, endurance and
western saddle.

However, the real beauty of watching a horse and rider is a good
cutting horse. If you've ever seen a sheep dog at work, cutting horses
are very similar. The rider just sits in the saddle, with feet and
legs away from the sides of the horse (allows the horse full freedom
to move -sometimes hop- sideways), gives the horse the reins and hangs
on to the horn while the horse dances around the calves. Dude, it's
awesome :) If you ever get the chance, watch horses from the Little
Lena lineage. They are smaller and petite than the typical
Quarterhorse, but cutting calves/cows is in their blood and they sure
can dance, with their noses and ears following a calf's head and every
move, they leap back and forth, side to side. It's awesome.

The World Paint Show is running now in Fort Worth. I've picked the day
of the cutting horse finals to go and watch the equine ballet.


"I am the monster." - Riddick

elzinator
June 22nd 04, 04:34 AM
On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 03:11:56 GMT, Hugh Beyer wrote:

>Gad, is that what this thread is about? Of course you talk to your horse
>with your legs and butt, and balance. And not just direction--speed up,
>slow down, this way, pay attention you damn stupid lunkhead. I've ridden
>English, Western, and Australian saddles and the basics are the same. The
>main difference is you're in better contact with the horse in an English
>saddle so you can do more with pressure of calf, knee and thigh; and that
>nothing but starvation will get you out of an Australian saddle. Thinking
>you steer with your hands is like thinking you pull on the trigger when
>shooting a gun.

I have always wanted an Aussie saddle. Rode one once on a trail ride
and I fell in love (so did my ass and Shadow's back).


"I am the monster." - Riddick

elzinator
June 22nd 04, 04:34 AM
On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 03:11:56 GMT, Hugh Beyer wrote:

>Gad, is that what this thread is about? Of course you talk to your horse
>with your legs and butt, and balance. And not just direction--speed up,
>slow down, this way, pay attention you damn stupid lunkhead. I've ridden
>English, Western, and Australian saddles and the basics are the same. The
>main difference is you're in better contact with the horse in an English
>saddle so you can do more with pressure of calf, knee and thigh; and that
>nothing but starvation will get you out of an Australian saddle. Thinking
>you steer with your hands is like thinking you pull on the trigger when
>shooting a gun.

I have always wanted an Aussie saddle. Rode one once on a trail ride
and I fell in love (so did my ass and Shadow's back).


"I am the monster." - Riddick

John HUDSON
June 22nd 04, 10:20 AM
On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 22:32:53 -0500, elzinator
> wrote:

>Keith Hobman" > wrote in message
...
>
>>> > > I'm not sure in an english saddle you can use the knees and legs like
>>a
>>> > > western outfit. I've never ridden an english type of outfit. I suspect
>>> > > John would be a little suprised if he saw a calf roper, where they
>>don't
>>> > > even use their hands to steer the horse.
>
>A Western saddle has much more bulk to it, unless you find an old
>saddle which allows more contact. My show saddle is an old Western
>close contact, which I like (but it still weighs a ton). So most
>Western riders put more reliance on contact with reins, thighs and
>calves. However, as John Hamer pointed out to us, a good Western horse
>and rider still uses their seat, and the reins should be merely
>'reminders.'

In riding terms a rider's "seat" is the way in which the rider 'sits'
the horse and effects control over the mount using *all* riding aids.
So a rider may be described as having a 'good seat', when they are
comfortably and competently in control of their mount.

The "seat" is nothing to do with controlling a horse by alternately
clenching the buttocks, which is arrant nonsense!!

>
>Indeed, when I give Shadow the bit and the reins (I just let the reins
>rest in between my fingers), he drops his head and gathers himself
>underneath for driving from the back end.

Which is called impulsion and which the horse will not effect it to
advantage if it "drops its head".

The horse needs to be 'collected' gently on the reins, when it will
round its neck and bring its nose into the vertical. The rider will
then sit deep, push forward with the pelvis and 'urge' the horse with
a squeeze from thighs and lower leg to get it's haunches 'gathered'
underneath itself for maximum thrust.

>He relaxes and we both enjoy
>the ride. I use my seat and thighs occasionally to cue to bend, turn
>or change leads. I wiggle the reins (and hence the bit) to remind him
>that I want his attention.

Nothing could be more confusing to a horse than to have its rider
"wiggle the reins". Gentle consistent pressure via the reins to the
bars (the gums in between the front and rear sections of the horse's
lower teeth) of the horse's mouth is what is required, so that there
is no doubt what you want the animal to do.

"Wiggling the reins" can cause soreness to the horse's bars and is the
motoring equivalent of 'jiggling' the steering wheel of the car, which
only has the effect of throwing the car all over the road.

It's a shame we don't get along a little better Elzi, as this is a
topic I would love to discuss with you at some length; we perhaps
might both learn something!! ;o)

John HUDSON
June 22nd 04, 10:20 AM
On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 22:32:53 -0500, elzinator
> wrote:

>Keith Hobman" > wrote in message
...
>
>>> > > I'm not sure in an english saddle you can use the knees and legs like
>>a
>>> > > western outfit. I've never ridden an english type of outfit. I suspect
>>> > > John would be a little suprised if he saw a calf roper, where they
>>don't
>>> > > even use their hands to steer the horse.
>
>A Western saddle has much more bulk to it, unless you find an old
>saddle which allows more contact. My show saddle is an old Western
>close contact, which I like (but it still weighs a ton). So most
>Western riders put more reliance on contact with reins, thighs and
>calves. However, as John Hamer pointed out to us, a good Western horse
>and rider still uses their seat, and the reins should be merely
>'reminders.'

In riding terms a rider's "seat" is the way in which the rider 'sits'
the horse and effects control over the mount using *all* riding aids.
So a rider may be described as having a 'good seat', when they are
comfortably and competently in control of their mount.

The "seat" is nothing to do with controlling a horse by alternately
clenching the buttocks, which is arrant nonsense!!

>
>Indeed, when I give Shadow the bit and the reins (I just let the reins
>rest in between my fingers), he drops his head and gathers himself
>underneath for driving from the back end.

Which is called impulsion and which the horse will not effect it to
advantage if it "drops its head".

The horse needs to be 'collected' gently on the reins, when it will
round its neck and bring its nose into the vertical. The rider will
then sit deep, push forward with the pelvis and 'urge' the horse with
a squeeze from thighs and lower leg to get it's haunches 'gathered'
underneath itself for maximum thrust.

>He relaxes and we both enjoy
>the ride. I use my seat and thighs occasionally to cue to bend, turn
>or change leads. I wiggle the reins (and hence the bit) to remind him
>that I want his attention.

Nothing could be more confusing to a horse than to have its rider
"wiggle the reins". Gentle consistent pressure via the reins to the
bars (the gums in between the front and rear sections of the horse's
lower teeth) of the horse's mouth is what is required, so that there
is no doubt what you want the animal to do.

"Wiggling the reins" can cause soreness to the horse's bars and is the
motoring equivalent of 'jiggling' the steering wheel of the car, which
only has the effect of throwing the car all over the road.

It's a shame we don't get along a little better Elzi, as this is a
topic I would love to discuss with you at some length; we perhaps
might both learn something!! ;o)

DRS
June 22nd 04, 02:44 PM
"elzinator" > wrote in message


[...]

> I have always wanted an Aussie saddle. Rode one once on a trail ride
> and I fell in love (so did my ass and Shadow's back).

Are they sold over there? I suppose they would be, after all, apparently
Akubra now makes most of the hats sold in Texas. :-)

--

"I like pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as
equals."
Winston Churchill

DRS
June 22nd 04, 02:44 PM
"elzinator" > wrote in message


[...]

> I have always wanted an Aussie saddle. Rode one once on a trail ride
> and I fell in love (so did my ass and Shadow's back).

Are they sold over there? I suppose they would be, after all, apparently
Akubra now makes most of the hats sold in Texas. :-)

--

"I like pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as
equals."
Winston Churchill

Hugh Beyer
June 22nd 04, 02:52 PM
elzinator > wrote in
:

> On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 03:11:56 GMT, Hugh Beyer wrote:
>
>>Gad, is that what this thread is about? Of course you talk to your horse
>>with your legs and butt, and balance. And not just direction--speed up,
>>slow down, this way, pay attention you damn stupid lunkhead. I've ridden
>>English, Western, and Australian saddles and the basics are the same. The
>>main difference is you're in better contact with the horse in an English
>>saddle so you can do more with pressure of calf, knee and thigh; and that
>>nothing but starvation will get you out of an Australian saddle. Thinking
>>you steer with your hands is like thinking you pull on the trigger when
>>shooting a gun.
>
> I have always wanted an Aussie saddle. Rode one once on a trail ride
> and I fell in love (so did my ass and Shadow's back).

We used them on a 2-week horse trek across the sheep stations of New South
Wales. I'd done a reasonable amount of riding but nothing that intense, and
the saddles were comfortable from day 1. A very nice way to see the
countryside.

This was all back BC (Before Children) of course.

Hugh


--
Help! My myofibrillar material is disorganized!

Hugh Beyer
June 22nd 04, 02:52 PM
elzinator > wrote in
:

> On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 03:11:56 GMT, Hugh Beyer wrote:
>
>>Gad, is that what this thread is about? Of course you talk to your horse
>>with your legs and butt, and balance. And not just direction--speed up,
>>slow down, this way, pay attention you damn stupid lunkhead. I've ridden
>>English, Western, and Australian saddles and the basics are the same. The
>>main difference is you're in better contact with the horse in an English
>>saddle so you can do more with pressure of calf, knee and thigh; and that
>>nothing but starvation will get you out of an Australian saddle. Thinking
>>you steer with your hands is like thinking you pull on the trigger when
>>shooting a gun.
>
> I have always wanted an Aussie saddle. Rode one once on a trail ride
> and I fell in love (so did my ass and Shadow's back).

We used them on a 2-week horse trek across the sheep stations of New South
Wales. I'd done a reasonable amount of riding but nothing that intense, and
the saddles were comfortable from day 1. A very nice way to see the
countryside.

This was all back BC (Before Children) of course.

Hugh


--
Help! My myofibrillar material is disorganized!

Kevin Kane
June 22nd 04, 07:41 PM
> >
> > I hope you enjoy the light of my positivity shining in on your dark,
> > negative parade.
> >
> > Take care,
> >
> > Kevin
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Larry Hodges" > wrote in message >...
> > > You're just an arrogant dick, nothing more.
>
>
>
>
> I think you've got them all stirred up.
>
Neal,

I've come to expect that when mediocrity encounters greatness, things
like this invariable happen. If you ask me, it's jealousy and a
massive inferiority complex.

Take care

Kevin

Kevin Kane
June 22nd 04, 07:41 PM
> >
> > I hope you enjoy the light of my positivity shining in on your dark,
> > negative parade.
> >
> > Take care,
> >
> > Kevin
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Larry Hodges" > wrote in message >...
> > > You're just an arrogant dick, nothing more.
>
>
>
>
> I think you've got them all stirred up.
>
Neal,

I've come to expect that when mediocrity encounters greatness, things
like this invariable happen. If you ask me, it's jealousy and a
massive inferiority complex.

Take care

Kevin

John M. Williams
June 23rd 04, 12:06 AM
(Kevin Kane) wrote:
> Neal Fabian wrote:
>>
>> I think you've got them all stirred up.
>>
>Neal,
>
>I've come to expect that when mediocrity encounters greatness, things
>like this invariable happen.

Perhaps you two will show us what happens when narcissistic delusion
encounters its mirror image.

John M. Williams
June 23rd 04, 12:06 AM
(Kevin Kane) wrote:
> Neal Fabian wrote:
>>
>> I think you've got them all stirred up.
>>
>Neal,
>
>I've come to expect that when mediocrity encounters greatness, things
>like this invariable happen.

Perhaps you two will show us what happens when narcissistic delusion
encounters its mirror image.

elzinator
June 23rd 04, 03:57 AM
On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 13:52:05 GMT, Hugh Beyer wrote:
>elzinator > wrote in
:
>
>> On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 03:11:56 GMT, Hugh Beyer wrote:
>>
>>>Gad, is that what this thread is about? Of course you talk to your horse
>>>with your legs and butt, and balance. And not just direction--speed up,
>>>slow down, this way, pay attention you damn stupid lunkhead. I've ridden
>>>English, Western, and Australian saddles and the basics are the same. The
>>>main difference is you're in better contact with the horse in an English
>>>saddle so you can do more with pressure of calf, knee and thigh; and that
>>>nothing but starvation will get you out of an Australian saddle. Thinking
>>>you steer with your hands is like thinking you pull on the trigger when
>>>shooting a gun.
>>
>> I have always wanted an Aussie saddle. Rode one once on a trail ride
>> and I fell in love (so did my ass and Shadow's back).
>
>We used them on a 2-week horse trek across the sheep stations of New South
>Wales. I'd done a reasonable amount of riding but nothing that intense, and
>the saddles were comfortable from day 1. A very nice way to see the
>countryside.

That sounds wonderful: sheep and horses (sigh :) Can I come, too?

I have a trail ride story to relate: The Ride from Snowy River

My first trail ride (back when Shadow was wee and injured, so I rode
another horse) was Silver Creek State Park in Oregon: winding trails
through gullies, mosquito-laden creeks, muck pools (deep mud), up and
down ravines. There were 8 adults and 4 kids (mid-teens). Oh, and one
mule.

The first 1/2 hour was a make-or-breaker: straight down (a serious
decline, ~65 degree slope) the side of a ravine, with a muck pool at
the bottom. All I could think of was "The Man from Snowy River" and I
thought this was 'The End.' Thank god I was astride a sure-footed
horse that sat back on his haunches and gingerly hoofed his way near
the bottom, only to be surprised when Tuffy decided to leap over the
wide muck pool at the bottom. I'm glad I had a grasp on the horn or I
would have ended up underneath.

One horse lost two shoes and had to go back, led by the rider on foot
for 3 miles (she ended up pulling the other two shoes off). No way was
anyone going to try going UP that cliff. Another horse pulled a muscle
and was too lame to continue. The kids giggled after one said she
thinks she peed her pants (not sure if she was serious; but I noticed
she never once left the saddle). The mule went on like it was a
routine jaunt. It took me an hour to get my adrenaline under control.

A few hours and miles later, we noticed that we passed a spot we had
already passed. The trail markers in the park had deteriorated and
were illegible, but we tried to avoid admitting that we were 'lost'.

We divided into two groups and planned to follow the paths 'West'
according to the sun. That's fine and dandy except for when a storm
blows in and there's no longer any sun (why didn't I take my compass?
Because I was stupid). Then the temperature drops about 10+ degrees
and its blowing like hell. The horses are getting spooky and the kids
are getting nervous. The 3 of us adults avoided admitting to the 3
kids with us that we were LOST when they asked us "Haven't we gone by
this already, like twice??". Until we really started getting worried
ourselves ("Psst. Hey, which trail should we take THIS time?") And it
was getting dark. The kids were whimpering and the horses, bless their
hearts of determination, waited for 'directions.' And it was really
getting dark and cold.

Uh, let's see: it's May; storms usually come down from the North
rather than the West this time of the year. So, if that direction is
north, then that must be west. Let's take this trail. 45 minutes
later, in the dusk, we see 6 glowing yellow vests with lanterns on
horseback and bells (bells attached to the saddles so that any living
thing nearby can hear the riders). The other group made it back to the
trailers. After waiting for hours, one detached her trailer, drove
into town and contacted the sheriff, who called in 3 other mounted
Search and Rescue, distributed lanterns and fluorescent vests and
started searching for the 'stragglers': Us.

We made it home, after stopping to shove food into our gullets and
reward the horses with hay. But from that day on, that trip was known
as "The Trail Ride to Snowy River". Come to find out, one of the other
boarders and her young daughter had ridden the same trails there the
weekend before, got lost and snowed on, nearly spending the night
there in the snow.

We contacted the state parks dept, organized a crew of 4-H kids and
trail riding clubs, went through the park with topo maps and set new
trail markers with trail maps so that no one else would have to
suffer: "The Ride Through Snowy River"

Margaret, our seasoned trail rider (she and her husband used to go out
pack camping with a train of horses for a week or so at a time in the
Cascades) in residence, rode an Aussie saddle. She said there is NO
other saddle worthwhile for a trail ride. She's the one that also
recruited the Sheriff........and never let us forget it.

>This was all back BC (Before Children) of course.

Nah, get the kids on horseback by the time they are knee high and
you'll see. :)


"I am the monster." - Riddick

elzinator
June 23rd 04, 03:57 AM
On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 13:52:05 GMT, Hugh Beyer wrote:
>elzinator > wrote in
:
>
>> On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 03:11:56 GMT, Hugh Beyer wrote:
>>
>>>Gad, is that what this thread is about? Of course you talk to your horse
>>>with your legs and butt, and balance. And not just direction--speed up,
>>>slow down, this way, pay attention you damn stupid lunkhead. I've ridden
>>>English, Western, and Australian saddles and the basics are the same. The
>>>main difference is you're in better contact with the horse in an English
>>>saddle so you can do more with pressure of calf, knee and thigh; and that
>>>nothing but starvation will get you out of an Australian saddle. Thinking
>>>you steer with your hands is like thinking you pull on the trigger when
>>>shooting a gun.
>>
>> I have always wanted an Aussie saddle. Rode one once on a trail ride
>> and I fell in love (so did my ass and Shadow's back).
>
>We used them on a 2-week horse trek across the sheep stations of New South
>Wales. I'd done a reasonable amount of riding but nothing that intense, and
>the saddles were comfortable from day 1. A very nice way to see the
>countryside.

That sounds wonderful: sheep and horses (sigh :) Can I come, too?

I have a trail ride story to relate: The Ride from Snowy River

My first trail ride (back when Shadow was wee and injured, so I rode
another horse) was Silver Creek State Park in Oregon: winding trails
through gullies, mosquito-laden creeks, muck pools (deep mud), up and
down ravines. There were 8 adults and 4 kids (mid-teens). Oh, and one
mule.

The first 1/2 hour was a make-or-breaker: straight down (a serious
decline, ~65 degree slope) the side of a ravine, with a muck pool at
the bottom. All I could think of was "The Man from Snowy River" and I
thought this was 'The End.' Thank god I was astride a sure-footed
horse that sat back on his haunches and gingerly hoofed his way near
the bottom, only to be surprised when Tuffy decided to leap over the
wide muck pool at the bottom. I'm glad I had a grasp on the horn or I
would have ended up underneath.

One horse lost two shoes and had to go back, led by the rider on foot
for 3 miles (she ended up pulling the other two shoes off). No way was
anyone going to try going UP that cliff. Another horse pulled a muscle
and was too lame to continue. The kids giggled after one said she
thinks she peed her pants (not sure if she was serious; but I noticed
she never once left the saddle). The mule went on like it was a
routine jaunt. It took me an hour to get my adrenaline under control.

A few hours and miles later, we noticed that we passed a spot we had
already passed. The trail markers in the park had deteriorated and
were illegible, but we tried to avoid admitting that we were 'lost'.

We divided into two groups and planned to follow the paths 'West'
according to the sun. That's fine and dandy except for when a storm
blows in and there's no longer any sun (why didn't I take my compass?
Because I was stupid). Then the temperature drops about 10+ degrees
and its blowing like hell. The horses are getting spooky and the kids
are getting nervous. The 3 of us adults avoided admitting to the 3
kids with us that we were LOST when they asked us "Haven't we gone by
this already, like twice??". Until we really started getting worried
ourselves ("Psst. Hey, which trail should we take THIS time?") And it
was getting dark. The kids were whimpering and the horses, bless their
hearts of determination, waited for 'directions.' And it was really
getting dark and cold.

Uh, let's see: it's May; storms usually come down from the North
rather than the West this time of the year. So, if that direction is
north, then that must be west. Let's take this trail. 45 minutes
later, in the dusk, we see 6 glowing yellow vests with lanterns on
horseback and bells (bells attached to the saddles so that any living
thing nearby can hear the riders). The other group made it back to the
trailers. After waiting for hours, one detached her trailer, drove
into town and contacted the sheriff, who called in 3 other mounted
Search and Rescue, distributed lanterns and fluorescent vests and
started searching for the 'stragglers': Us.

We made it home, after stopping to shove food into our gullets and
reward the horses with hay. But from that day on, that trip was known
as "The Trail Ride to Snowy River". Come to find out, one of the other
boarders and her young daughter had ridden the same trails there the
weekend before, got lost and snowed on, nearly spending the night
there in the snow.

We contacted the state parks dept, organized a crew of 4-H kids and
trail riding clubs, went through the park with topo maps and set new
trail markers with trail maps so that no one else would have to
suffer: "The Ride Through Snowy River"

Margaret, our seasoned trail rider (she and her husband used to go out
pack camping with a train of horses for a week or so at a time in the
Cascades) in residence, rode an Aussie saddle. She said there is NO
other saddle worthwhile for a trail ride. She's the one that also
recruited the Sheriff........and never let us forget it.

>This was all back BC (Before Children) of course.

Nah, get the kids on horseback by the time they are knee high and
you'll see. :)


"I am the monster." - Riddick

elzinator
June 23rd 04, 04:06 AM
On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 23:44:12 +1000, DRS wrote:
>"elzinator" > wrote in message

>
>[...]
>
>> I have always wanted an Aussie saddle. Rode one once on a trail ride
>> and I fell in love (so did my ass and Shadow's back).
>
>Are they sold over there? I suppose they would be, after all, apparently
>Akubra now makes most of the hats sold in Texas. :-)

Yes, they are, but expensive, at least the last time I looked (over 10
years ago). Margaret paid nearly 2K for her Aussie saddle.

While looking at new saddles this weekend, I noticed that the
endurance saddles look more like the Aussie saddles now. Makes sense.
And they are less expensive, too. I might consider one of those, but
it depends on the fit. Butthead is built weird and hard to fit.

Yeah, I have one of the hats; I bought it in Ft Worth several months
ago. The brim and top are supple black suede with mesh in between for
ventilation. Exceptionally functional in the hot Texas sun. It's
wonderful; the best investment I've made in a hat in ages. One of the
pathologists in the dept has one, too, that he wears everywhere (he's
an avid outdoorsman). The hat can be folded up and stuffed in your
back pocket, take it out, shake it and put it on. It rocks.

The oilskin drover coat I have it absolutely great, too. Maybe I am on
the wrong continent. :)


"I am the monster." - Riddick

elzinator
June 23rd 04, 04:06 AM
On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 23:44:12 +1000, DRS wrote:
>"elzinator" > wrote in message

>
>[...]
>
>> I have always wanted an Aussie saddle. Rode one once on a trail ride
>> and I fell in love (so did my ass and Shadow's back).
>
>Are they sold over there? I suppose they would be, after all, apparently
>Akubra now makes most of the hats sold in Texas. :-)

Yes, they are, but expensive, at least the last time I looked (over 10
years ago). Margaret paid nearly 2K for her Aussie saddle.

While looking at new saddles this weekend, I noticed that the
endurance saddles look more like the Aussie saddles now. Makes sense.
And they are less expensive, too. I might consider one of those, but
it depends on the fit. Butthead is built weird and hard to fit.

Yeah, I have one of the hats; I bought it in Ft Worth several months
ago. The brim and top are supple black suede with mesh in between for
ventilation. Exceptionally functional in the hot Texas sun. It's
wonderful; the best investment I've made in a hat in ages. One of the
pathologists in the dept has one, too, that he wears everywhere (he's
an avid outdoorsman). The hat can be folded up and stuffed in your
back pocket, take it out, shake it and put it on. It rocks.

The oilskin drover coat I have it absolutely great, too. Maybe I am on
the wrong continent. :)


"I am the monster." - Riddick

elzinator
June 23rd 04, 04:16 AM
On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 16:57:22 GMT, David Cohen wrote:
>
>"Art S" > wrote
>> "elzinator" > wrote > >

>> > So you had better condition your ass, David. For we'se goin' fer a
>> > ride!!
>>
>> How does one condition one's ass for riding without riding?
>>
>> > (maybe we can coax Keith and others into it, too. Hint: Don't
>squat
>> > with your spurs on.)
>> >
>> Well, at least not ass-to-grass squats.
>
>Aaaarrggg..this is VERY frustrating! First it was MY posts that Elzi
>wasn't seeing. Now I'm missing some of hers!
>
>Thank you, Art, for responding to Elzi's answer, so I could she that
>she did, then I went to Google Groups and found her post.
>
>Elzi, thanks for the long, detailed answer. That's one of the parts of
>a new "hobby" that I really love: reading lots of books and stuff.
>
>We'll definitely go riding in December, before or after the meet.
>There's probably riding stables in Laughlin, too. I'll look in to it.
>Art's gonna' ride, too. (the official MFW Horseback Photographer!)

I have recruited Bill Helmich from NM (he visits Dallas on business
and trains at the gym when in town). He's more than qualified for the
AAU comp; he's also lifting in the IPF nationals meet (masters). Great
guy. He and a few others are competing as part of a NASA team.

He also mentioned that there is a boat cruise down a river in
Laughlin, complete with dinner, etc. Sounds nice. He said the river is
scenic there. Know anything about that?


"I am the monster." - Riddick

elzinator
June 23rd 04, 04:16 AM
On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 16:57:22 GMT, David Cohen wrote:
>
>"Art S" > wrote
>> "elzinator" > wrote > >

>> > So you had better condition your ass, David. For we'se goin' fer a
>> > ride!!
>>
>> How does one condition one's ass for riding without riding?
>>
>> > (maybe we can coax Keith and others into it, too. Hint: Don't
>squat
>> > with your spurs on.)
>> >
>> Well, at least not ass-to-grass squats.
>
>Aaaarrggg..this is VERY frustrating! First it was MY posts that Elzi
>wasn't seeing. Now I'm missing some of hers!
>
>Thank you, Art, for responding to Elzi's answer, so I could she that
>she did, then I went to Google Groups and found her post.
>
>Elzi, thanks for the long, detailed answer. That's one of the parts of
>a new "hobby" that I really love: reading lots of books and stuff.
>
>We'll definitely go riding in December, before or after the meet.
>There's probably riding stables in Laughlin, too. I'll look in to it.
>Art's gonna' ride, too. (the official MFW Horseback Photographer!)

I have recruited Bill Helmich from NM (he visits Dallas on business
and trains at the gym when in town). He's more than qualified for the
AAU comp; he's also lifting in the IPF nationals meet (masters). Great
guy. He and a few others are competing as part of a NASA team.

He also mentioned that there is a boat cruise down a river in
Laughlin, complete with dinner, etc. Sounds nice. He said the river is
scenic there. Know anything about that?


"I am the monster." - Riddick

David Cohen
June 23rd 04, 05:57 AM
"elzinator" > wrote
> DRS wrote:
> >"elzinator" > wrote
> >> I have always wanted an Aussie saddle. Rode one once on a trail
ride
> >> and I fell in love (so did my ass and Shadow's back).
> >
> >Are they sold over there? I suppose they would be, after all,
apparently
> >Akubra now makes most of the hats sold in Texas. :-)
>
> Yes, they are, but expensive, at least the last time I looked (over
10
> years ago). Margaret paid nearly 2K for her Aussie saddle.
>
> While looking at new saddles this weekend, I noticed that the
> endurance saddles look more like the Aussie saddles now. Makes
sense.
> And they are less expensive, too. I might consider one of those, but
> it depends on the fit. Butthead is built weird and hard to fit.
>
> Yeah, I have one of the hats; I bought it in Ft Worth several months
> ago. The brim and top are supple black suede with mesh in between
for
> ventilation. Exceptionally functional in the hot Texas sun. It's
> wonderful; the best investment I've made in a hat in ages. One of
the
> pathologists in the dept has one, too, that he wears everywhere
(he's
> an avid outdoorsman). The hat can be folded up and stuffed in your
> back pocket, take it out, shake it and put it on. It rocks.
>
> The oilskin drover coat I have it absolutely great, too. Maybe I am
on
> the wrong continent. :)

Wrong century.

David

David Cohen
June 23rd 04, 05:57 AM
"elzinator" > wrote
> DRS wrote:
> >"elzinator" > wrote
> >> I have always wanted an Aussie saddle. Rode one once on a trail
ride
> >> and I fell in love (so did my ass and Shadow's back).
> >
> >Are they sold over there? I suppose they would be, after all,
apparently
> >Akubra now makes most of the hats sold in Texas. :-)
>
> Yes, they are, but expensive, at least the last time I looked (over
10
> years ago). Margaret paid nearly 2K for her Aussie saddle.
>
> While looking at new saddles this weekend, I noticed that the
> endurance saddles look more like the Aussie saddles now. Makes
sense.
> And they are less expensive, too. I might consider one of those, but
> it depends on the fit. Butthead is built weird and hard to fit.
>
> Yeah, I have one of the hats; I bought it in Ft Worth several months
> ago. The brim and top are supple black suede with mesh in between
for
> ventilation. Exceptionally functional in the hot Texas sun. It's
> wonderful; the best investment I've made in a hat in ages. One of
the
> pathologists in the dept has one, too, that he wears everywhere
(he's
> an avid outdoorsman). The hat can be folded up and stuffed in your
> back pocket, take it out, shake it and put it on. It rocks.
>
> The oilskin drover coat I have it absolutely great, too. Maybe I am
on
> the wrong continent. :)

Wrong century.

David

David Cohen
June 23rd 04, 06:00 AM
"elzinator" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 16:57:22 GMT, David Cohen wrote:
> >
> >"Art S" > wrote
> >> "elzinator" > wrote > >
>
> >> > So you had better condition your ass, David. For we'se goin'
fer a
> >> > ride!!
> >>
> >> How does one condition one's ass for riding without riding?
> >>
> >> > (maybe we can coax Keith and others into it, too. Hint: Don't
> >squat
> >> > with your spurs on.)
> >> >
> >> Well, at least not ass-to-grass squats.
> >
> >Aaaarrggg..this is VERY frustrating! First it was MY posts that
Elzi
> >wasn't seeing. Now I'm missing some of hers!
> >
> >Thank you, Art, for responding to Elzi's answer, so I could she
that
> >she did, then I went to Google Groups and found her post.
> >
> >Elzi, thanks for the long, detailed answer. That's one of the parts
of
> >a new "hobby" that I really love: reading lots of books and stuff.
> >
> >We'll definitely go riding in December, before or after the meet.
> >There's probably riding stables in Laughlin, too. I'll look in to
it.
> >Art's gonna' ride, too. (the official MFW Horseback Photographer!)
>
> I have recruited Bill Helmich from NM (he visits Dallas on business
> and trains at the gym when in town). He's more than qualified for
the
> AAU comp; he's also lifting in the IPF nationals meet (masters).
Great
> guy. He and a few others are competing as part of a NASA team.
>
> He also mentioned that there is a boat cruise down a river in
> Laughlin, complete with dinner, etc. Sounds nice. He said the river
is
> scenic there. Know anything about that?

Don't know anything specific, but Laughlin's like Vegas Junior: what
ever you want, they'll do. Just not Vegas style. Laughlin style. A bit
better than Mesquite style.

David

David Cohen
June 23rd 04, 06:00 AM
"elzinator" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 16:57:22 GMT, David Cohen wrote:
> >
> >"Art S" > wrote
> >> "elzinator" > wrote > >
>
> >> > So you had better condition your ass, David. For we'se goin'
fer a
> >> > ride!!
> >>
> >> How does one condition one's ass for riding without riding?
> >>
> >> > (maybe we can coax Keith and others into it, too. Hint: Don't
> >squat
> >> > with your spurs on.)
> >> >
> >> Well, at least not ass-to-grass squats.
> >
> >Aaaarrggg..this is VERY frustrating! First it was MY posts that
Elzi
> >wasn't seeing. Now I'm missing some of hers!
> >
> >Thank you, Art, for responding to Elzi's answer, so I could she
that
> >she did, then I went to Google Groups and found her post.
> >
> >Elzi, thanks for the long, detailed answer. That's one of the parts
of
> >a new "hobby" that I really love: reading lots of books and stuff.
> >
> >We'll definitely go riding in December, before or after the meet.
> >There's probably riding stables in Laughlin, too. I'll look in to
it.
> >Art's gonna' ride, too. (the official MFW Horseback Photographer!)
>
> I have recruited Bill Helmich from NM (he visits Dallas on business
> and trains at the gym when in town). He's more than qualified for
the
> AAU comp; he's also lifting in the IPF nationals meet (masters).
Great
> guy. He and a few others are competing as part of a NASA team.
>
> He also mentioned that there is a boat cruise down a river in
> Laughlin, complete with dinner, etc. Sounds nice. He said the river
is
> scenic there. Know anything about that?

Don't know anything specific, but Laughlin's like Vegas Junior: what
ever you want, they'll do. Just not Vegas style. Laughlin style. A bit
better than Mesquite style.

David

Kevin Kane
June 23rd 04, 07:37 AM
> >like this invariable happen.
>
> Perhaps you two will show us what happens when narcissistic delusion
> encounters its mirror image.

John:

Narcissistic delusion ? Really? I think that you might have low
blood sugar levels. Therefore, I would reccommend a protein shake and
some flax oil to get you back to the real world.(My favourite is the
fruity flavour vanilla)

I don't know what your training goals are, what your current physique
is like, etc, but if you write your goals down, your training routine,
create a food diary and post it, I would be happy to critique it.
Just think of it this way, you can get a few tips from a pro for free.
How can you lose ?

Check out some of my publications to give you a jolt of inspiration:

http://www.arts.uwaterloo.ca/~kkane/articles.html


Take care,


Who am I?
I am an ESTJ, a professional, a totally ripped athlete, an investor, a
LBYMer, a lifelong learner, and a libertarian, a champion, a thought
provoker, a thinker.



--Kevin

Kevin Kane
June 23rd 04, 07:37 AM
> >like this invariable happen.
>
> Perhaps you two will show us what happens when narcissistic delusion
> encounters its mirror image.

John:

Narcissistic delusion ? Really? I think that you might have low
blood sugar levels. Therefore, I would reccommend a protein shake and
some flax oil to get you back to the real world.(My favourite is the
fruity flavour vanilla)

I don't know what your training goals are, what your current physique
is like, etc, but if you write your goals down, your training routine,
create a food diary and post it, I would be happy to critique it.
Just think of it this way, you can get a few tips from a pro for free.
How can you lose ?

Check out some of my publications to give you a jolt of inspiration:

http://www.arts.uwaterloo.ca/~kkane/articles.html


Take care,


Who am I?
I am an ESTJ, a professional, a totally ripped athlete, an investor, a
LBYMer, a lifelong learner, and a libertarian, a champion, a thought
provoker, a thinker.



--Kevin

Hugh Beyer
June 23rd 04, 12:58 PM
elzinator > wrote in
:

> On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 13:52:05 GMT, Hugh Beyer wrote:
>>elzinator > wrote in
:
>>
>>> On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 03:11:56 GMT, Hugh Beyer wrote:
>>>
>>>>Gad, is that what this thread is about? Of course you talk to your
>>>>horse with your legs and butt, and balance. And not just
>>>>direction--speed up, slow down, this way, pay attention you damn
>>>>stupid lunkhead. I've ridden English, Western, and Australian saddles
>>>>and the basics are the same. The main difference is you're in better
>>>>contact with the horse in an English saddle so you can do more with
>>>>pressure of calf, knee and thigh; and that nothing but starvation will
>>>>get you out of an Australian saddle. Thinking you steer with your
>>>>hands is like thinking you pull on the trigger when shooting a gun.
>>>
>>> I have always wanted an Aussie saddle. Rode one once on a trail ride
>>> and I fell in love (so did my ass and Shadow's back).
>>
>>We used them on a 2-week horse trek across the sheep stations of New
>>South Wales. I'd done a reasonable amount of riding but nothing that
>>intense, and the saddles were comfortable from day 1. A very nice way to
>>see the countryside.
>
> That sounds wonderful: sheep and horses (sigh :) Can I come, too?

Oooh, yeah. Only problem is Australia is, like, very far away.

One of the most fun aspects of the trip was that we were the most exciting
thing happening in those parts since the last bus wreck, so the ranchers
would often come out and ride with us a piece.

The best bit though was when I forgot my saddlebags after lunch and had to
go back for them. When I left the rest and took my horse off on his own he
was convinced I was either taking him into the hills to shoot or was going
to leave him for the dingos. I have never had a horse pay so much
attention to me--it was magic.

> The first 1/2 hour was a make-or-breaker: straight down (a serious
> decline, ~65 degree slope) the side of a ravine, with a muck pool at
> the bottom. All I could think of was "The Man from Snowy River" and I
> thought this was 'The End.' Thank god I was astride a sure-footed
> horse that sat back on his haunches and gingerly hoofed his way near
> the bottom, only to be surprised when Tuffy decided to leap over the
> wide muck pool at the bottom. I'm glad I had a grasp on the horn or I
> would have ended up underneath.

There's nothing like getting off the flat to appreciate what horses can
really do. The leader of our expedition, who was a nut case, decided he
needed to get to the top of an escarpment, horse included. He hopped off
and led the horse straight up through the trees. Looked like nothing so
much as an oversized greyhound after a rabbit.


>>This was all back BC (Before Children) of course.
>
> Nah, get the kids on horseback by the time they are knee high and
> you'll see. :)

Oh, they would do it like a shot. But not until my ship comes in, I'm
afraid. I'd really like to do some riding out west--when the time comes,
I'll be back for advice.

Hugh



--
Help! My myofibrillar material is disorganized!

Hugh Beyer
June 23rd 04, 12:58 PM
elzinator > wrote in
:

> On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 13:52:05 GMT, Hugh Beyer wrote:
>>elzinator > wrote in
:
>>
>>> On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 03:11:56 GMT, Hugh Beyer wrote:
>>>
>>>>Gad, is that what this thread is about? Of course you talk to your
>>>>horse with your legs and butt, and balance. And not just
>>>>direction--speed up, slow down, this way, pay attention you damn
>>>>stupid lunkhead. I've ridden English, Western, and Australian saddles
>>>>and the basics are the same. The main difference is you're in better
>>>>contact with the horse in an English saddle so you can do more with
>>>>pressure of calf, knee and thigh; and that nothing but starvation will
>>>>get you out of an Australian saddle. Thinking you steer with your
>>>>hands is like thinking you pull on the trigger when shooting a gun.
>>>
>>> I have always wanted an Aussie saddle. Rode one once on a trail ride
>>> and I fell in love (so did my ass and Shadow's back).
>>
>>We used them on a 2-week horse trek across the sheep stations of New
>>South Wales. I'd done a reasonable amount of riding but nothing that
>>intense, and the saddles were comfortable from day 1. A very nice way to
>>see the countryside.
>
> That sounds wonderful: sheep and horses (sigh :) Can I come, too?

Oooh, yeah. Only problem is Australia is, like, very far away.

One of the most fun aspects of the trip was that we were the most exciting
thing happening in those parts since the last bus wreck, so the ranchers
would often come out and ride with us a piece.

The best bit though was when I forgot my saddlebags after lunch and had to
go back for them. When I left the rest and took my horse off on his own he
was convinced I was either taking him into the hills to shoot or was going
to leave him for the dingos. I have never had a horse pay so much
attention to me--it was magic.

> The first 1/2 hour was a make-or-breaker: straight down (a serious
> decline, ~65 degree slope) the side of a ravine, with a muck pool at
> the bottom. All I could think of was "The Man from Snowy River" and I
> thought this was 'The End.' Thank god I was astride a sure-footed
> horse that sat back on his haunches and gingerly hoofed his way near
> the bottom, only to be surprised when Tuffy decided to leap over the
> wide muck pool at the bottom. I'm glad I had a grasp on the horn or I
> would have ended up underneath.

There's nothing like getting off the flat to appreciate what horses can
really do. The leader of our expedition, who was a nut case, decided he
needed to get to the top of an escarpment, horse included. He hopped off
and led the horse straight up through the trees. Looked like nothing so
much as an oversized greyhound after a rabbit.


>>This was all back BC (Before Children) of course.
>
> Nah, get the kids on horseback by the time they are knee high and
> you'll see. :)

Oh, they would do it like a shot. But not until my ship comes in, I'm
afraid. I'd really like to do some riding out west--when the time comes,
I'll be back for advice.

Hugh



--
Help! My myofibrillar material is disorganized!

John M. Williams
June 23rd 04, 01:09 PM
(Kevin Kane) wrote:
>
>I don't know what your training goals are, what your current physique
>is like, etc, but if you write your goals down, your training routine,
>create a food diary and post it, I would be happy to critique it.
>Just think of it this way, you can get a few tips from a pro for free.

Please post a copy of your IFBB card.

John M. Williams
June 23rd 04, 01:09 PM
(Kevin Kane) wrote:
>
>I don't know what your training goals are, what your current physique
>is like, etc, but if you write your goals down, your training routine,
>create a food diary and post it, I would be happy to critique it.
>Just think of it this way, you can get a few tips from a pro for free.

Please post a copy of your IFBB card.

Bob MacWilliam
June 23rd 04, 02:28 PM
(Kevin Kane) wrote in message >...
> > >like this invariable happen.
> >
> > Perhaps you two will show us what happens when narcissistic delusion
> > encounters its mirror image.
>
> John:
>
> Narcissistic delusion ? Really? I think that you might have low
> blood sugar levels. Therefore, I would reccommend a protein shake and
> some flax oil to get you back to the real world.(My favourite is the
> fruity flavour vanilla)

Protein and fat the best way to get those blood sugar levels up?
Hmmm....

> I don't know what your training goals are, what your current physique
> is like, etc, but if you write your goals down, your training routine,
> create a food diary and post it, I would be happy to critique it.
> Just think of it this way, you can get a few tips from a pro for free.
> How can you lose ?

Who's the pro? Kevin, I salute your enthusiasm but you're more than a
bit over the top here. There's people around here that have been
studying nutrition and physiology longer than you have been on this
earth.

Are you competing this summer? There's a natural competition at York
U this Saturday (June 26) - smaller show, good for beginners. I'll be
in the audience this time because I'm only eligible for nationals
(Aug) in this organization now.

There's the CBBF Ontario Championships (Natural Stream) at York too on
July 17th - I will compete here, then the Nationals in London a week
later (assuming I place well).

Are you natural? Those Brantford championships you mentioned are not
tested right? Anyway, are you gonna be there at any of these
competitions?

Bob

Bob MacWilliam
June 23rd 04, 02:28 PM
(Kevin Kane) wrote in message >...
> > >like this invariable happen.
> >
> > Perhaps you two will show us what happens when narcissistic delusion
> > encounters its mirror image.
>
> John:
>
> Narcissistic delusion ? Really? I think that you might have low
> blood sugar levels. Therefore, I would reccommend a protein shake and
> some flax oil to get you back to the real world.(My favourite is the
> fruity flavour vanilla)

Protein and fat the best way to get those blood sugar levels up?
Hmmm....

> I don't know what your training goals are, what your current physique
> is like, etc, but if you write your goals down, your training routine,
> create a food diary and post it, I would be happy to critique it.
> Just think of it this way, you can get a few tips from a pro for free.
> How can you lose ?

Who's the pro? Kevin, I salute your enthusiasm but you're more than a
bit over the top here. There's people around here that have been
studying nutrition and physiology longer than you have been on this
earth.

Are you competing this summer? There's a natural competition at York
U this Saturday (June 26) - smaller show, good for beginners. I'll be
in the audience this time because I'm only eligible for nationals
(Aug) in this organization now.

There's the CBBF Ontario Championships (Natural Stream) at York too on
July 17th - I will compete here, then the Nationals in London a week
later (assuming I place well).

Are you natural? Those Brantford championships you mentioned are not
tested right? Anyway, are you gonna be there at any of these
competitions?

Bob

John M. Williams
June 23rd 04, 06:16 PM
(Bob MacWilliam) wrote:
>
>Are you natural? Those Brantford championships you mentioned are not
>tested right? Anyway, are you gonna be there at any of these
>competitions?

I don't think so, Bob. Witness Kev's post on June 5, 2004:

(Kevin Kane) wrote:
>Buhda wrote:
>>Clomid and Sustanon are illeagal though right? I have no idea
>>where to find them.
>
>Budha: I actually went down to Mexico for the previously mentioned
>pharmaceutical and carried them back in my shaving cream container and
>injected some while I was down there. Stupid customs people -- don't
>worry about them. Sheesh.

Apparently, Kev needs some healthy injections of sust to fuel his
skinny, flat-chested physique.

John M. Williams
June 23rd 04, 06:16 PM
(Bob MacWilliam) wrote:
>
>Are you natural? Those Brantford championships you mentioned are not
>tested right? Anyway, are you gonna be there at any of these
>competitions?

I don't think so, Bob. Witness Kev's post on June 5, 2004:

(Kevin Kane) wrote:
>Buhda wrote:
>>Clomid and Sustanon are illeagal though right? I have no idea
>>where to find them.
>
>Budha: I actually went down to Mexico for the previously mentioned
>pharmaceutical and carried them back in my shaving cream container and
>injected some while I was down there. Stupid customs people -- don't
>worry about them. Sheesh.

Apparently, Kev needs some healthy injections of sust to fuel his
skinny, flat-chested physique.

Neal Fabian
June 23rd 04, 09:21 PM
John M. Williams > wrote in message >...
> (Neal Fabian) wrote:
> >John M. Williams > wrote:
> >> (Kevin Kane) wrote:
> >> >
> >> >John:
> >> >
> >> >Who the heck is Adam Ramsey ???? I bet he doesn't bech 205 x 25 ?
> >>
> >> Why would anyone?
> >
> >Higher reps are a good training variable, if not overused. Actually,
> >at your age, I would recommend medium-high reps and lighter weights,
> >as your regular routine. I hope I've helped you.
>
> It appears that you passed my age approximately 18 years ago. Thus, I
> will assume that you have experience in that regard.





Wow; that would make you about eleven. I've seen your picture. There
is no way that anyone could get to be that ugly in only eleven years.


___________________________________

HOW GOOD CAN YOU GET? is now up on my website, in NEW STUFF, on the
cover page.* Check it out.* Also, I have a new B&W addition to my
gallery, by a terrific photographer who is new to physique art.* It's
in ABSOLUTELY...PART II.
___________________________________

My training program, ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT
DEVELOPING YOUR BODY,* is up on my website.
___________________________________

Neal Fabian
visit my website; BIO, PHOTOS & ARTICLES
training advice and much more -- come by and meet me
http://hometown.aol.com/nfabian/myhomepage/index.html





****

Neal Fabian
June 23rd 04, 09:21 PM
John M. Williams > wrote in message >...
> (Neal Fabian) wrote:
> >John M. Williams > wrote:
> >> (Kevin Kane) wrote:
> >> >
> >> >John:
> >> >
> >> >Who the heck is Adam Ramsey ???? I bet he doesn't bech 205 x 25 ?
> >>
> >> Why would anyone?
> >
> >Higher reps are a good training variable, if not overused. Actually,
> >at your age, I would recommend medium-high reps and lighter weights,
> >as your regular routine. I hope I've helped you.
>
> It appears that you passed my age approximately 18 years ago. Thus, I
> will assume that you have experience in that regard.





Wow; that would make you about eleven. I've seen your picture. There
is no way that anyone could get to be that ugly in only eleven years.


___________________________________

HOW GOOD CAN YOU GET? is now up on my website, in NEW STUFF, on the
cover page.* Check it out.* Also, I have a new B&W addition to my
gallery, by a terrific photographer who is new to physique art.* It's
in ABSOLUTELY...PART II.
___________________________________

My training program, ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT
DEVELOPING YOUR BODY,* is up on my website.
___________________________________

Neal Fabian
visit my website; BIO, PHOTOS & ARTICLES
training advice and much more -- come by and meet me
http://hometown.aol.com/nfabian/myhomepage/index.html





****

guiTarzan
June 23rd 04, 09:34 PM
elzinator > wrote in message >...
>
> This guy has to be a Troll.
>
> "I am the monster." - Riddick

Google his prior posts. He's a troll.

guiTarzan
June 23rd 04, 09:34 PM
elzinator > wrote in message >...
>
> This guy has to be a Troll.
>
> "I am the monster." - Riddick

Google his prior posts. He's a troll.

Kevin Kane
June 24th 04, 12:05 AM
John M. Williams > wrote in message >...
> (Bob MacWilliam) wrote:
> >
> >Are you natural? Those Brantford championships you mentioned are not
> >tested right? Anyway, are you gonna be there at any of these
> >competitions?
>
> I don't think so, Bob. Witness Kev's post on June 5, 2004:
>
> (Kevin Kane) wrote:
> >Buhda wrote:
> >>Clomid and Sustanon are illeagal though right? I have no idea
> >>where to find them.
> >
> >Budha: I actually went down to Mexico for the previously mentioned
> >pharmaceutical and carried them back in my shaving cream container and
> >injected some while I was down there. Stupid customs people -- don't
> >worry about them. Sheesh.


I've been impersonated. This is the REAL Kevin Kane. Hackers
infiltrated my computer and started a posting rampage. Please
disregard all the above posts. I've been unfairly judged by these
assinine posts.

Kevin





>
> Apparently, Kev needs some healthy injections of sust to fuel his
> skinny, flat-chested physique.

Kevin Kane
June 24th 04, 12:05 AM
John M. Williams > wrote in message >...
> (Bob MacWilliam) wrote:
> >
> >Are you natural? Those Brantford championships you mentioned are not
> >tested right? Anyway, are you gonna be there at any of these
> >competitions?
>
> I don't think so, Bob. Witness Kev's post on June 5, 2004:
>
> (Kevin Kane) wrote:
> >Buhda wrote:
> >>Clomid and Sustanon are illeagal though right? I have no idea
> >>where to find them.
> >
> >Budha: I actually went down to Mexico for the previously mentioned
> >pharmaceutical and carried them back in my shaving cream container and
> >injected some while I was down there. Stupid customs people -- don't
> >worry about them. Sheesh.


I've been impersonated. This is the REAL Kevin Kane. Hackers
infiltrated my computer and started a posting rampage. Please
disregard all the above posts. I've been unfairly judged by these
assinine posts.

Kevin





>
> Apparently, Kev needs some healthy injections of sust to fuel his
> skinny, flat-chested physique.

Lee Michaels
June 24th 04, 12:21 AM
"Kevin Kane" babbled
>
> I've been impersonated. This is the REAL Kevin Kane. Hackers
> infiltrated my computer and started a posting rampage. Please
> disregard all the above posts. I've been unfairly judged by these
> assinine posts.
>

There is a "REAL Kevin Kane"???

BWHAAHAAHAAHAAHAAHAAHAA!!!

What a pitiful, sorrowful creature that must be.

Lee Michaels
June 24th 04, 12:21 AM
"Kevin Kane" babbled
>
> I've been impersonated. This is the REAL Kevin Kane. Hackers
> infiltrated my computer and started a posting rampage. Please
> disregard all the above posts. I've been unfairly judged by these
> assinine posts.
>

There is a "REAL Kevin Kane"???

BWHAAHAAHAAHAAHAAHAAHAA!!!

What a pitiful, sorrowful creature that must be.

David Cohen
June 24th 04, 12:57 AM
"Lee Michaels" > wrote
> "Kevin Kane" babbled
> > I've been impersonated. This is the REAL Kevin Kane. Hackers
> > infiltrated my computer and started a posting rampage. Please
> > disregard all the above posts. I've been unfairly judged by these
> > assinine posts.
> >
> There is a "REAL Kevin Kane"???
>
> BWHAAHAAHAAHAAHAAHAAHAA!!!
>
> What a pitiful, sorrowful creature that must be.

The voices in my head think the voices in his head are crazy.

David

David Cohen
June 24th 04, 12:57 AM
"Lee Michaels" > wrote
> "Kevin Kane" babbled
> > I've been impersonated. This is the REAL Kevin Kane. Hackers
> > infiltrated my computer and started a posting rampage. Please
> > disregard all the above posts. I've been unfairly judged by these
> > assinine posts.
> >
> There is a "REAL Kevin Kane"???
>
> BWHAAHAAHAAHAAHAAHAAHAA!!!
>
> What a pitiful, sorrowful creature that must be.

The voices in my head think the voices in his head are crazy.

David

Adam Fahy
June 24th 04, 02:15 AM
Kevin Kane wrote:

> I've been impersonated. This is the REAL Kevin Kane. Hackers
> infiltrated my computer and started a posting rampage. Please
> disregard all the above posts. I've been unfairly judged by these
> assinine posts.

"Kevin," meet "Neal." "Neal," meet "Kevin."


-Adam

Adam Fahy
June 24th 04, 02:15 AM
Kevin Kane wrote:

> I've been impersonated. This is the REAL Kevin Kane. Hackers
> infiltrated my computer and started a posting rampage. Please
> disregard all the above posts. I've been unfairly judged by these
> assinine posts.

"Kevin," meet "Neal." "Neal," meet "Kevin."


-Adam

Lee Michaels
June 24th 04, 02:26 AM
"Adam Fahy" wrote

> Kevin Kane wrote:
>
> > I've been impersonated. This is the REAL Kevin Kane. Hackers
> > infiltrated my computer and started a posting rampage. Please
> > disregard all the above posts. I've been unfairly judged by these
> > assinine posts.
>
> "Kevin," meet "Neal." "Neal," meet "Kevin."
>

I am not really up on my vampire troll science.

When these guys look at each other, what happens??

Do they see each other?

Do they see a reflection of themselves?

Or do they see nothing at all?

Lee Michaels
June 24th 04, 02:26 AM
"Adam Fahy" wrote

> Kevin Kane wrote:
>
> > I've been impersonated. This is the REAL Kevin Kane. Hackers
> > infiltrated my computer and started a posting rampage. Please
> > disregard all the above posts. I've been unfairly judged by these
> > assinine posts.
>
> "Kevin," meet "Neal." "Neal," meet "Kevin."
>

I am not really up on my vampire troll science.

When these guys look at each other, what happens??

Do they see each other?

Do they see a reflection of themselves?

Or do they see nothing at all?

elzinator
June 24th 04, 02:58 AM
On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 11:58:36 GMT, Hugh Beyer wrote:
>elzinator > wrote in
:

>One of the most fun aspects of the trip was that we were the most exciting
>thing happening in those parts since the last bus wreck, so the ranchers
>would often come out and ride with us a piece.
>
>The best bit though was when I forgot my saddlebags after lunch and had to
>go back for them. When I left the rest and took my horse off on his own he
>was convinced I was either taking him into the hills to shoot or was going
>to leave him for the dingos. I have never had a horse pay so much
>attention to me--it was magic.

Horses often act quite different when removed from their 'peers'.
Shadow was schooled first by himself. When I felt he was ready, I took
him to places with other horses (other than the ones he was familiar
with), usually small schooling shows.

Even took him to a regional Pinto shows (yes, he's a registered Pinto
as well as Half-Saddlebred) where I lunged and rode him in the arena
during warm ups then took him home. That was very educational; it's
like Grand Central Station with horses all ages, sizes, breeds and
colors. He thinks ponies are big dogs that he can play and toss
around. It's also the first time I also saw the regal and majestic
gaited Saddlebred shine through. Otherwise he thinks he's a
Quarterhorse (been around them too long).

During our first trail ride I discovered what Saddlebreds were bred
(selected) for: smooth ride at a trot for long distances. He trotted
the entire time and it was like literally floating on air. I just sat
back and beamed; "Dude, THIS is Heaven."

>> The first 1/2 hour was a make-or-breaker: straight down (a serious
>> decline, ~65 degree slope) the side of a ravine, with a muck pool at
>> the bottom. All I could think of was "The Man from Snowy River" and I
>> thought this was 'The End.' Thank god I was astride a sure-footed
>> horse that sat back on his haunches and gingerly hoofed his way near
>> the bottom, only to be surprised when Tuffy decided to leap over the
>> wide muck pool at the bottom. I'm glad I had a grasp on the horn or I
>> would have ended up underneath.
>
>There's nothing like getting off the flat to appreciate what horses can
>really do. The leader of our expedition, who was a nut case, decided he
>needed to get to the top of an escarpment, horse included. He hopped off
>and led the horse straight up through the trees. Looked like nothing so
>much as an oversized greyhound after a rabbit.

Watch the endurance horses when they climb the trails. Especially the
Arabs/Arab crosses. They are petite, but sure footed and light. They
drive with their hindquarters up slopes and sit back on their haunches
when coming down. Those "Desert Dogs" really know how to move.

>
>>>This was all back BC (Before Children) of course.
>>
>> Nah, get the kids on horseback by the time they are knee high and
>> you'll see. :)
>
>Oh, they would do it like a shot. But not until my ship comes in, I'm
>afraid. I'd really like to do some riding out west--when the time comes,
>I'll be back for advice.

West US? There are great opportunities here for riding. Which reminds
me, a few of us from the dept (and elsewhere) are planning a horseback
trip sometime in the future. Colorado or Montana. Join us? (we promise
we'll leave the molecular bio talk at home)


"I am the monster." - Riddick

elzinator
June 24th 04, 02:58 AM
On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 11:58:36 GMT, Hugh Beyer wrote:
>elzinator > wrote in
:

>One of the most fun aspects of the trip was that we were the most exciting
>thing happening in those parts since the last bus wreck, so the ranchers
>would often come out and ride with us a piece.
>
>The best bit though was when I forgot my saddlebags after lunch and had to
>go back for them. When I left the rest and took my horse off on his own he
>was convinced I was either taking him into the hills to shoot or was going
>to leave him for the dingos. I have never had a horse pay so much
>attention to me--it was magic.

Horses often act quite different when removed from their 'peers'.
Shadow was schooled first by himself. When I felt he was ready, I took
him to places with other horses (other than the ones he was familiar
with), usually small schooling shows.

Even took him to a regional Pinto shows (yes, he's a registered Pinto
as well as Half-Saddlebred) where I lunged and rode him in the arena
during warm ups then took him home. That was very educational; it's
like Grand Central Station with horses all ages, sizes, breeds and
colors. He thinks ponies are big dogs that he can play and toss
around. It's also the first time I also saw the regal and majestic
gaited Saddlebred shine through. Otherwise he thinks he's a
Quarterhorse (been around them too long).

During our first trail ride I discovered what Saddlebreds were bred
(selected) for: smooth ride at a trot for long distances. He trotted
the entire time and it was like literally floating on air. I just sat
back and beamed; "Dude, THIS is Heaven."

>> The first 1/2 hour was a make-or-breaker: straight down (a serious
>> decline, ~65 degree slope) the side of a ravine, with a muck pool at
>> the bottom. All I could think of was "The Man from Snowy River" and I
>> thought this was 'The End.' Thank god I was astride a sure-footed
>> horse that sat back on his haunches and gingerly hoofed his way near
>> the bottom, only to be surprised when Tuffy decided to leap over the
>> wide muck pool at the bottom. I'm glad I had a grasp on the horn or I
>> would have ended up underneath.
>
>There's nothing like getting off the flat to appreciate what horses can
>really do. The leader of our expedition, who was a nut case, decided he
>needed to get to the top of an escarpment, horse included. He hopped off
>and led the horse straight up through the trees. Looked like nothing so
>much as an oversized greyhound after a rabbit.

Watch the endurance horses when they climb the trails. Especially the
Arabs/Arab crosses. They are petite, but sure footed and light. They
drive with their hindquarters up slopes and sit back on their haunches
when coming down. Those "Desert Dogs" really know how to move.

>
>>>This was all back BC (Before Children) of course.
>>
>> Nah, get the kids on horseback by the time they are knee high and
>> you'll see. :)
>
>Oh, they would do it like a shot. But not until my ship comes in, I'm
>afraid. I'd really like to do some riding out west--when the time comes,
>I'll be back for advice.

West US? There are great opportunities here for riding. Which reminds
me, a few of us from the dept (and elsewhere) are planning a horseback
trip sometime in the future. Colorado or Montana. Join us? (we promise
we'll leave the molecular bio talk at home)


"I am the monster." - Riddick

elzinator
June 24th 04, 03:01 AM
On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 04:57:24 GMT, David Cohen wrote:
>
>"elzinator" > wrote
>
>> The oilskin drover coat I have it absolutely great, too. Maybe I am
>on
>> the wrong continent. :)
>
>Wrong century.

Wrong century in the US for sure. However, from what I hear (accounts
by several folks), Australia still has wild country. Frankly, I
wouldn't mind leaving all this bull**** behind and hiding again in the
wild lands. It's my passion for science that keeps me here.

I find ways to maintain my sanity.


"I am the monster." - Riddick

elzinator
June 24th 04, 03:01 AM
On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 04:57:24 GMT, David Cohen wrote:
>
>"elzinator" > wrote
>
>> The oilskin drover coat I have it absolutely great, too. Maybe I am
>on
>> the wrong continent. :)
>
>Wrong century.

Wrong century in the US for sure. However, from what I hear (accounts
by several folks), Australia still has wild country. Frankly, I
wouldn't mind leaving all this bull**** behind and hiding again in the
wild lands. It's my passion for science that keeps me here.

I find ways to maintain my sanity.


"I am the monster." - Riddick

elzinator
June 24th 04, 03:18 AM
On 22 Jun 2004 23:37:09 -0700, Kevin Kane wrote:
>> >like this invariable happen.
>>
>> Perhaps you two will show us what happens when narcissistic delusion
>> encounters its mirror image.
>
>John:
>
>Narcissistic delusion ? Really? I think that you might have low
>blood sugar levels. Therefore, I would reccommend a protein shake and
>some flax oil to get you back to the real world.(My favourite is the
>fruity flavour vanilla)
>
>I don't know what your training goals are, what your current physique
>is like, etc, but if you write your goals down, your training routine,
>create a food diary and post it, I would be happy to critique it.
>Just think of it this way, you can get a few tips from a pro for free.
> How can you lose ?
>
>Check out some of my publications to give you a jolt of inspiration:
>
>http://www.arts.uwaterloo.ca/~kkane/articles.html
>
>
>Take care,
>
>
>Who am I?
>I am an ESTJ, a professional, a totally ripped athlete, an investor, a
>LBYMer, a lifelong learner, and a libertarian, a champion, a thought
>provoker, a thinker.

BWAAHAAHAHAHHAAAHHAAAAAAAAA................
<sputter><choke><giggle>>>>......heheeehe... <cough>....
ahem.

elzinator
June 24th 04, 03:18 AM
On 22 Jun 2004 23:37:09 -0700, Kevin Kane wrote:
>> >like this invariable happen.
>>
>> Perhaps you two will show us what happens when narcissistic delusion
>> encounters its mirror image.
>
>John:
>
>Narcissistic delusion ? Really? I think that you might have low
>blood sugar levels. Therefore, I would reccommend a protein shake and
>some flax oil to get you back to the real world.(My favourite is the
>fruity flavour vanilla)
>
>I don't know what your training goals are, what your current physique
>is like, etc, but if you write your goals down, your training routine,
>create a food diary and post it, I would be happy to critique it.
>Just think of it this way, you can get a few tips from a pro for free.
> How can you lose ?
>
>Check out some of my publications to give you a jolt of inspiration:
>
>http://www.arts.uwaterloo.ca/~kkane/articles.html
>
>
>Take care,
>
>
>Who am I?
>I am an ESTJ, a professional, a totally ripped athlete, an investor, a
>LBYMer, a lifelong learner, and a libertarian, a champion, a thought
>provoker, a thinker.

BWAAHAAHAHAHHAAAHHAAAAAAAAA................
<sputter><choke><giggle>>>>......heheeehe... <cough>....
ahem.

elzinator
June 24th 04, 03:19 AM
On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 23:21:50 GMT, Lee Michaels wrote:
>
>"Kevin Kane" babbled
>>
>> I've been impersonated. This is the REAL Kevin Kane. Hackers
>> infiltrated my computer and started a posting rampage. Please
>> disregard all the above posts. I've been unfairly judged by these
>> assinine posts.
>>
>
>There is a "REAL Kevin Kane"???
>
>BWHAAHAAHAAHAAHAAHAAHAA!!!
>
>What a pitiful, sorrowful creature that must be.

"Will the Real 'Kevin Kane' please sit down and shut up?"

elzinator
June 24th 04, 03:19 AM
On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 23:21:50 GMT, Lee Michaels wrote:
>
>"Kevin Kane" babbled
>>
>> I've been impersonated. This is the REAL Kevin Kane. Hackers
>> infiltrated my computer and started a posting rampage. Please
>> disregard all the above posts. I've been unfairly judged by these
>> assinine posts.
>>
>
>There is a "REAL Kevin Kane"???
>
>BWHAAHAAHAAHAAHAAHAAHAA!!!
>
>What a pitiful, sorrowful creature that must be.

"Will the Real 'Kevin Kane' please sit down and shut up?"

elzinator
June 24th 04, 03:22 AM
On 23 Jun 2004 13:34:56 -0700, guiTarzan wrote:
>elzinator > wrote in message >...
>>
>> This guy has to be a Troll.
>>
>> "I am the monster." - Riddick
>
>Google his prior posts. He's a troll.

He isn't worth the time to Google, but my suspicion is confirmed.


"I am the monster." - Riddick

elzinator
June 24th 04, 03:22 AM
On 23 Jun 2004 13:34:56 -0700, guiTarzan wrote:
>elzinator > wrote in message >...
>>
>> This guy has to be a Troll.
>>
>> "I am the monster." - Riddick
>
>Google his prior posts. He's a troll.

He isn't worth the time to Google, but my suspicion is confirmed.


"I am the monster." - Riddick

Lee Michaels
June 24th 04, 03:32 AM
"elzinator" wrote
>
> BWAAHAAHAHAHHAAAHHAAAAAAAAA................
> <sputter><choke><giggle>>>>......heheeehe... <cough>....
> ahem.
>
Careful there Elzi.

Deep breaths, deep breaths.

Lee Michaels
June 24th 04, 03:32 AM
"elzinator" wrote
>
> BWAAHAAHAHAHHAAAHHAAAAAAAAA................
> <sputter><choke><giggle>>>>......heheeehe... <cough>....
> ahem.
>
Careful there Elzi.

Deep breaths, deep breaths.

Larry Hodges
June 24th 04, 07:29 AM
Lee Michaels wrote:
> "Adam Fahy" wrote
>
>> Kevin Kane wrote:
>>
>>> I've been impersonated. This is the REAL Kevin Kane. Hackers
>>> infiltrated my computer and started a posting rampage. Please
>>> disregard all the above posts. I've been unfairly judged by these
>>> assinine posts.
>>
>> "Kevin," meet "Neal." "Neal," meet "Kevin."
>>
>
> I am not really up on my vampire troll science.
>
> When these guys look at each other, what happens??
>
> Do they see each other?
>
> Do they see a reflection of themselves?
>
> Or do they see nothing at all?

I don't see anything. Just smell some hot air.
--
-Larry

Larry Hodges
June 24th 04, 07:29 AM
Lee Michaels wrote:
> "Adam Fahy" wrote
>
>> Kevin Kane wrote:
>>
>>> I've been impersonated. This is the REAL Kevin Kane. Hackers
>>> infiltrated my computer and started a posting rampage. Please
>>> disregard all the above posts. I've been unfairly judged by these
>>> assinine posts.
>>
>> "Kevin," meet "Neal." "Neal," meet "Kevin."
>>
>
> I am not really up on my vampire troll science.
>
> When these guys look at each other, what happens??
>
> Do they see each other?
>
> Do they see a reflection of themselves?
>
> Or do they see nothing at all?

I don't see anything. Just smell some hot air.
--
-Larry

John HUDSON
June 24th 04, 08:06 AM
On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 20:58:21 -0500, elzinator
> wrote:

>On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 11:58:36 GMT, Hugh Beyer wrote:
>>elzinator > wrote in
:
>
>>One of the most fun aspects of the trip was that we were the most exciting
>>thing happening in those parts since the last bus wreck, so the ranchers
>>would often come out and ride with us a piece.
>>
>>The best bit though was when I forgot my saddlebags after lunch and had to
>>go back for them. When I left the rest and took my horse off on his own he
>>was convinced I was either taking him into the hills to shoot or was going
>>to leave him for the dingos. I have never had a horse pay so much
>>attention to me--it was magic.
>
>Horses often act quite different when removed from their 'peers'.
>Shadow was schooled first by himself.

That's a novel concept Elzi - a horse schooling itself?!! ;o)

John HUDSON
June 24th 04, 08:06 AM
On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 20:58:21 -0500, elzinator
> wrote:

>On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 11:58:36 GMT, Hugh Beyer wrote:
>>elzinator > wrote in
:
>
>>One of the most fun aspects of the trip was that we were the most exciting
>>thing happening in those parts since the last bus wreck, so the ranchers
>>would often come out and ride with us a piece.
>>
>>The best bit though was when I forgot my saddlebags after lunch and had to
>>go back for them. When I left the rest and took my horse off on his own he
>>was convinced I was either taking him into the hills to shoot or was going
>>to leave him for the dingos. I have never had a horse pay so much
>>attention to me--it was magic.
>
>Horses often act quite different when removed from their 'peers'.
>Shadow was schooled first by himself.

That's a novel concept Elzi - a horse schooling itself?!! ;o)